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CCPC Minutes 06/10/2002 SJune 10, 2002 Collier County Planning Commission County Commission Boardroom Building "F", 3rd Floor 3301 Tamiami Trail Naples, FL 34112 MINUTES June 10, 2002 5:05 PM PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE CALL TO ORDER by Kenneth Abernathy ROLL CALL by Kenneth Abernathy ATTENDANCE: Collier County Planning Commission: Frank Fry, Paul Midney, Lindey Adelstein, Russell Budd, Kenneth Abernathy, and Mark Strain. David Wolfley arrived at 5:09 PM and Lora J. Young at 5:14 PM. Dwight Richardson is absent. Staff: Susan Murray, Joe Schmitt, Ray Bellows, and Fred Reischl ADDENDA TO THE AGENDA: None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - April 24, 2002: Passed. PLANNING COMMISSION ABENSNCES: Next meeting is Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 8:30 AM. Paul Midney will be absent. BCC REPORT - RECAPS None in package. CHAIRMAN'S REPORT None. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS: PUDA-2002-AR-2298 companion to DOA-2002-AR-2299 All persons giving testimony were sworn in. Ray Bellows spoke stating that the petitioner is requesting that the units of Winding Cypress be reduced from 2,892 to 2,300 units. The petitioner wants to reduce the project density from 1.5 acres to 1.2 acres and the golf course from 45 holes to 18 holes. The petitioner would also like to increase preserve areas from 713 acres to 795 acres. The petitioner would like to change the ration of office floor area and recreational area not to exceed 30,000 square feet. The current master plan that has been approved shows the residential area more spread out. Page 1 June 10, 2002 The new plan is similar to the Island Walk PUD. The purpose of this amendment is to allow for this type of development. Staff has received no letters of opposition. Staff us recommending that this be approved and sent to the BCC for final approval. Kenneth Abernathy asked if there are any indications of anything other than market forces that prompted this proposal. Ray Bellows said that market forces were the reason. Kenneth Abernathy said that in the original plan there were two accesses to 951 and the modified plan has just one. It was pointed out that there are still two. The applicant has a minor change concerning how accessory uses are determined. George Varnadoe on behalf of Barron Collier Company said that the changes would strengthen environmental aspects without stress on county infrastructure. Access has been coordinated with neighbors. Mark Strain stated that the maximum length of the cul- de-sac is 2700 feet and that one of the problems with those is a dead-end waterline. Have you found a way to avoid the bacteria growth for long lines? You want to reduce pathways from 6 feet to 5 feet, are they concrete of asphalt? Are commercial signs in interior of project? Mr. Vamadoe answered yes. Setback is edge of pavement or curb? Mr. Vamadoe answered that it is edge of pavement. It says that it shall include two 12- foot travel lanes and two 2-foot curbs? Is the curbs valley gutter? Mr. Vamadoe answered yes. Kenneth Abernathy wanted to talk about development standards on table one. Was DiVosta the builder when the site plan came out or was the site plan changed because of DiVosta? Mr. Abernathy is concerned about the 5-foot setbacks. He wondered if the setback could be changed to 7 1/2 feet and not causes a problem with the plan. Steve Means, Engineer represent WilsonMiller. We are not contemplating looping in the pipelines. We have not determined the best method at this time. The client says concrete will be used for the pathways. They are intending to use valley gutters. Setback will be back of curb. Alan Reynolds addressing the 5-foot side yard setback question from Mr. Abernathy. By having the 5-foot side yard setback it allows the development to have pedestrian system, the lakes, and the open space. There is actually 10 feet between buildings. Alan Reynolds did have pictures to show the CCPC. Mr. Abernathy wanted to know what it would do to the development if you added 2 1/2 feet to the side yard setback. Mr. Reynolds said that it would be a 50 percent increase in the separation. Mr. Abemathy asked how big are the lots. Mr. Reynolds said they are 40 to 60 feet wide and some are wider. Mr. Abernathy asked what is the range in price on these units. Mr. Reynolds said they start at $170,000 to $300,000. Mr. Budd asked how deep are the lots. Mr. Reynolds answered that the lots are 100 and 120 feet. They back up to a lake or open space. Mr. Wolfley asked how many units are in track A. Mr. Reynolds said there are approximately 2,000 units. Mr. Fry asked what the square footage of these houses is to be. Mr. Rosen said they are to be 1500-2500 under air not including the garage. Mr. Adelstein asked about reducing the number of holes of golf with the large amount of owners. He wondered if they thought this would work. Mr. Reynolds felt that it would Page 2 Jtme 10, 2002 work because of the demographics of the people who have moved to these communities are not golfers because the like the lake amenity, the pedestrian system, and the Village Center. Mr. Fry asked about the equity memberships on the golf course. Mr. Reynolds said that it had not been set and that the market will dictate that. Mr. Abernathy mentioned a provision to trade single family to a multi-family at a 1.95 to 1. Mr. Reynolds said not in the PUD DRI. Mr. Russell made a motion (PUDA-2002-AR-2298) to approve with the modifications made by Mr. Varnadoe and Mr. Strain, and seconded by Mr. Strain. Motion passed 7-1 with Mr. Abernathy voting no. Mr. Russell made a motion (DOA-2002-AR-2299) to approve, Mr. Adelstein seconded the motion. Motion passed 8-0. RZ-2002-AR-2487 People that were testifying were sworn in at this time. Disclosures - Frank Fry along with others received fax from applicant regarding this issue. Fred Reischl, Planning Services, spoke about the location, density, and zoning. It is not a PUD but a Rezone. There is no master plan with this. There is no platting. Seventy-nine units are being planned. Transportation has not completed their part. Mr. Strain brought up Utility line problems with neighbors on Greenway Road. Neighbors will have no choice but to tie in money to lines that weren't needed before. Mr. Strain asked if the neighbors would have to pay impact fees as well. Joe Schmitt said no they will not. They have already paid impact fees. Mr. Strain asked if there was an affordable housing application. Mr. Reischl said that there is not. Mr. Strain also wondered why this is being fast tracked when it is not being applied for as affordable housing project. Mr. Schmitt said that was his decision because it is another alternative for work force or low-income housing. Mr. Bellows said that this has been done in the past when they are trying to meet work force housing price range but not go through the criteria for density bonus or the other formal government housing subsidies for affordable housing. This is an alternative. Its been done in Immokalee and East Naples. Lindey Adelstein asked if only 79 units could be built and do we have any assurance that it will be used for work force housing. Mr. Reischl said the RSF-5 with a three density would limit it to that. Frank Fry asked if this was being presented as a Habitat for Humanity. The Petitioners intent is to use as Habitat for Humanity but Mr. Reischl did not want to emphasize that. The applicant, Vince Cautero of Wilkison & Associates representing the petitioner. Mr. Cautero's firm represents The Gilbros Company, the owner of the property. They will ask that a conditon be placed on the rezone request for it to be work force housing. Mr. Adelstein asked what was the reason for fast tracking. Mr. Cautero said that there is an ordinance adopted in 1989 that has been repealed, however, the staff has always followed it. They try to fast track within 20 days. Mr. Reed Jarvey, Vice President and Professional Engineer, addressed the traffic congestion area. Mr. Jarvey gave a handout to the CCPC. Mr. Jarvey says that this development is not in a traffic congested area so would qualify for four units per acre. Page 3 June 10, 2002 Mr. Strain asked about how he came to some of the traffic numbers. Mr. Strain asked why he thought the number was too high. Mr. Jarvey said that it was historical information. Mr. Fry asked about who makes the final decision on who is the final decision maker. Mr. Cautero said that the BCC would be the interpreters. Dr. Sam Derso with the Habitat for Humanity made a plea for the project for 90 units, but would still build this project if it were 79. Mr. Derso spoke about the history of Habitat for Humanity in Collier County. He spoke proudly about the Naples Manor upgrades by Habitat of Humanity, which have gone up 23 percent and the year before 20 percent. Mr. Derso discussed how poor people are already here. He said that the need in Naples is 3 to 1 over Immokalee. People live in decrepit housing in East Naples. Mr. Derso spoke about the peculiar purchase plan - three-way deal. He spoke about restrictions that would be put on so that it could only be used for work force housing. It could be required that the house has less than 1100 square feet, that the house cannot be sold for more than $80,000, and request 79 units for the whole parcel. For all those on the west side of Greenway Road within the urban boundary, Habitat will pay for the registered owners water hookups which would cost about $120,000 to $150,000. Mark Strain once again asked why they didn't do this through an RSF-3 instead of RSF- 5. Vince Cautero said that it is because they may want to have 90 units. The size of the lots is also an issue. Dr. Derso said that this is a handshake agreement and not a written agreement. Lindy Adelstein asked why they couldn't have gotten at least a tentative written agreement. Dr. Derso said that there are tax reasons and other reasons that are good reasons but he cannot put it on the record. Mr. Abernathy asked if there was a storm water retention problem on this property. Dr. Derso said that they would have to address it. Mr. Adelstein said that the reason he is having a problem is not because it is Habitat for Humanity but because this is a handshake agreement and there is no guarantee that it will be Habitat for Humanity. Mr. Strain said his concern is the tying into the utilities. Vince Cautero said that the intent is not to put a strain on the residents. There is a force main system, which would not require the mandatory hookup. Mark Strain asked if this project was feasible since the report started out with 118 units, then to 90, and now to 79. Clay Caruthers said that the goal was to maximize the number of units you can get on the project since it was a work force project. After gaining environmental information about the site, i.e. wetlands, it was decided it would have taken all of the land to be able to get 118 units and it would have taken permission from the water district. That is when it was changed. Dr. Derso said that the land is valuable to Habitat for Humanity because land is becoming less and less available to him projects. It use to cost $4,000 a lot and now it is costing $40,000 a lot. Public Speakers: Robert S. Bean: Mr. Bean operates a tropical fish farm. Under Florida statutes it is unlawful to impede profitability agriculture. Greenway Road is used for water discharge. Greenway Road is now maximized. There was then discussion concerning whether the water system could handle this project on Greenway Road. Staff reported that they are looking to see if the improvements will make the system better and able to handle the Page 4 June 10, 2002 water discharge. Marjorie Student, County Attorney stated that two attorneys in her office disagree with Mr. Bean and that the Florida statutes deal with direct regulation of farming. Mr. Bean is talking about a more indirect regulation that is speculative remote impact. Mr. Midney brought up the Immokalee project that was approved pending a water study from the Water Management District that would support the area and make improvements that would allow the agriculture not to be impeded. Mr. Budd said that Mr. Bean has brought some issues that are beyond what CCPC is deciding at this point. Mr. Bean then spoke as a homeowner that does not want to incur the expense of a sewer system. Marilyn Mathis: Ms. Mathis has 5 acres off of the west side of Greenway Road. Ms. Mathis wants help with money on the water and sewer. She and her husband have looked at other land and cannot find anything affordable to live in the rural lifestyle. Ms. Mathis also felt that transportation problems would increase if the project were approved. Mr. Strain asked about special taxes on the road. Staff said it used to be a private road with special taxes, but now the county has taken it over. Dan Howard: Mr. Howard has a seed research farm with 170 acres. He initially supported the project but now has questions about the project. Mr. Howard is concerned about people living on this road and that this project will drive them out. Drainage is not adequate. It floods at the end of the road. Mr. Howard claimed the road would be completely flooded out. He is against the fast track and wants the questions raised answered. Mr. Strain asked Mr. Howard if he had ever wondered what would happen to the land across from him. Mr. Howard said he thought it would be something agricultural. Vince Cautero spoke again. Frank Fry asked what problems will develop if not fast tracked. Dr. Derso said if zoning goes through, the land "may" be donated and the money saved for Habitat for Humanity. Dr. Derso then reiterated that if further speculations could be placed on who could live there, it would take care of questions. He said they could also place occupants must have incomes less than poverty level. Marjorie Student said it would be better to say work force housing. Mr. Strain said he is worried about future and that this project has too many what ifs. Mr. Budd wants to make a continuance to June 20. He is having trouble with all the matters in the air. Many board members also voiced concerns about the timeliness of the current time frame. Marjorie Student said that we need to get the OK from the applicant because there is no definition on work force housing and that is a concern with the zoning laws. There was a discussion about this project and all the questions that are up in the air. Dr. Derso stated what they are to come up with for June 20 meet 1) dollar amount for water and sewer hookup 2) can a 10 year deferment legally happen 3) written definition of work force housing. Mr. Abemathy stated that there is a consensus to put off a decision for two weeks. Mr. Budd made a motion to continue and Mr. Adelstein seconded the motion. It passed 8-0. PDI-2001-AR-1687 Disclosures - none. Page 5 June 10,2002 All people testifying were asked to swear to their testimony. Mr. Reischl stated that the change is swapping configurations of land to Marco Shores. Mr. Neal the petitioner spoke and said that he concurs with the staff recommendation to approve. There were no questions of staff. There were no public speakers. Lora Young moved to approve insubstantial change and Mr. Wolfley seconded the motion. Passed 8- 0. RZ-2001-AR-1934 is continued until the June 20, 2002 meeting. LDC Amendment for PUD Sunsetting. Mr. Strain said he has a conflict of interest with this group. Susan Murray explained the sunsetting amendment history. Mr. Abernathy brought up problems with "if then" comment. Mr. Lindey brought up which "growth management" plan. Margaret said that she would clarify. She asked if she should add "180 days" instead of "six months." Public Speaker: Mr. Anderson spoke to various aspects of the PUD's and language. He wants three-year- old and five year old PUD's to be treated fairly. PUD sunsetting language is unfair as is and the circumstances as to when extension can and cannot be granted. Mr. Budd agreed with Mr. Anderson on unfairness. Susan Murray clarified what board workshop tried to do. She said the five-year PUD's were made into three year PUD's Acts that made developer not act would be considered by the board. Should five-year-old PUD's become three-year-old PUD's? There was a discussion as to what happens in the third year of a three-year-old PUD or fifth year of a five-year-old PUD for amendment. Lindy Adelstein made a motion to adopt new LDC amendment as worded in the handout tonight. Mr. Midney seconded the motion. The motion carries 4-3 with Adelstein, Fry, Young and Midney voting for, Abernathy, Budd, and Wolfley voting against, and Mr. Strain abstaining because of a conflict of interest. OLD BUSINESS: None. NEW BUSINESS: None. PUBLIC COMMENT ITEMS: None. DISCUSSION OF ADDENDA: None. ADJOURNMENT: Meeting adjourned at 8:40 PM. Page 6