CAC Minutes 06/13/2002 RJune 13,2002
Coastal Advisory Committee
County Commissioners Boardroom
Building F, 3ra Floor
3301 Tamiami Trail
Naples, FL 34104
MINUTES
June 13, 2002
ATTENDANCE
Members:
Chairman Gary Galleberg
Vice Chairman David Roellig
John Strapponi
Ron Pennington
Robert Stakich
James Snediker
Ashley Lupo
Anthony Pires (1:45 P.M.)
Collier County: Ron Hovell, P.E.
City of Naples: Dr. Jon C. Staiger
Others: Bruce Anderson, David Somers, Bill Moss, Ruth McCann,
Roy Anderson
NOTICE OF PUBLIC MEETING
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN OF A COLLIER COUNTY COASTAL ADVISORY
COMMITTEE MEETING IN THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARDROOM, THIRD FLOOR, W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING
(ADMINISTRATION), AT THE COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT COMPLEX,
3301 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA AT 1:30 P.M. ON JUNE 13,
2002.
AGENDA
o
Roll Call
Additions to Agenda
Old Business
a. Approval of minutes for May 9, 2002
b. Beach Cleaning
c. Project Updates
d. Project cost-sharing
e. 10-Year Plan Update
New Business
a. Hideaway Beach Renourishment (10502) supplemental grant application
b. Hideaway Beach T-groin Replacement grant application
Audience Participation
Schedule next meeting
Adjournment
ADDITIONALLY, THIS NOTICE ADVISED THAT, IF A PERSON DECIDES TO
APPEAL ANY DECISION MADE BY THE COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE,
WITH RESPECT TO ANY MATTER CONSIDERED AT THIS MEETING, HE WILL
NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS AND THAT FOR SUCH PURPOSE, HE
MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS
IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE
UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
June 13, 2002
II.
III.
Chairmen Gary Galleberg called meeting to order at 1:30 P.M.
ROLL CALL
Mr. Hovell called the roll.
ADDITIONS TO AGENDA
Ron Hovell noted a deletion to the agenda of item 4b, Hideaway Beach T-groin
Replacement grant application. He would explain the reasons later. Mr. Snediker
wanted to add to the agenda a discussion on the coarseness of sand. Mr.
Galleberg stated they would cover this after item 5.
OLD BUSINESS
a. Approval of Minutes for May 9, 2002
There were a few corrections. Page 1, paragraph 1, last sentence to be
deleted, paragraph 2, change "it's" to "its", and paragraph 5, change "45" to
"45,000". Page 4, paragraph 1, change "overtime" to "over time" and
paragraph 6, change "passes" to "passed".
Ron Pennington moved to accept the minutes as revised, Robert Stakich
seconded. Passed unanimously.
Mr. Hovell noted that the meeting was not being filmed today, only tape
recorded.
Beach Cleaning
Mr. Hovell has attempted to get Parks and Recreation, Natural Resources,
Planning Services, Code Enforcement, and Public Utilities Engineering
Department to come together to come to grips on what would be established
as an overall county policy, but they have not completed this effort. He added
a problem could be that there are 3 jurisdictions. One suggestion to deal with
some of these issues was to review to see whether there was a need to
continue raking since the distribution of trucked-in, rock-free sand. Mr.
Hovell noted that one of the beach rakes is in the process of dying and they
are not planning to repair it, which leaves the county with only two rakes, thus
decreasing the frequency of raking. Another recommendation was to not rake
below the mean high-water line unless it was specifically requested and there
was a reason to do this. There was no specific policy on this issue.
Mr. Pennington commented that they have a letter addressing the desires of
Marco Island, but they have a need to get similar information from the City of
Naples. He suggested that the term basic standard be used rather than
regulation, so that it could be deviated from by the individual entities. He
noted that the committee felt very kindly towards the Conservancy's
recommendations and felt this would be a good place to start from.
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June 13,2002
Mr. Snediker felt that beach raking ought to be controlled under one operation
or the other, not half and half. He questioned who was taking on this
management role. Mr. Hovel! believed they would have more than one entity
involved, and he has asked to have the Parks and Recs to take on the
management role, but it would still be at the direction of the Public Utilities
Engineering Department. Mr. Snediker thought this might be confusing to
have two different bosses.
Mr. Snediker mentioned the ATV vehicles and wondered if there was a
decision. Mr. Galleberg believed that the committee wanted to head in the
direction of using ATVs for trash pick-up, yet there are no policies in place.
He felt the City of Naples was in agreement with the committee, but it still
needed to be formalized. They could have different schedules based on the
different jurisdiction's desires. Mr. Hovell stated that since they have three
operators and only two rakes, they are planning to rent a mule to use on a
rotation basis, at least on Naples beach, Vanderbilt beach, and Park Shore.
Mr. Snediker felt the ATV could do a very effective job on most days. Mr.
Roellig believed the ATV would be fine since it would limit the frequency of
beach raking.
Mr. Strapponi stated they were only going to rake inland from the high-water
line and he asked up to how close would they rake to the dune line. Mr.
Hovell stated it was ten feet and that won't change. They only go below mean
high-water line if there is a specific request or event that requires them to do
so. Mr. Strapponi asked if they were now raking as needed or if was still a
routine schedule. Mr. Hovell stated that they are still on a routine schedule.
Mr. Strapponi asked if the area between the mean high-water line and 10 feet
from the dunes was lifeless. Dr. Staiger stated that the turtle's nests are often
in this area and there are also ghost crab burrows. The rack line is usually
near the mean high-water line, which is very important for seabird feeding.
The name for this area is dry sand beach. Mr. Strapponi questioned when they
have a restoration, what impact does it have to dump tons of sand on top of
this area. Mr. Staiger believed that if the restoration was done by pumping
sand, then any living thing would have to migrate through about 5 feet of wet
sand. If it was done by dumping sand and then plowing it around, the layer is
generally much lighter and more living things could get through. Mr.
Strapponi asked if new life that is foreign to the area was brought in when
they do restoration by hydraulic means. Mr. Staiger noted that when they did
a past beach restoration, it brought in thousands of fighting conchs. It has a
major impact on the stuff living in the sand from where it is mined. Mr.
Strapponi asked if raking is more damaging than renourishment. Mr. Staiger
noted that most living creatures are in the inner tidal area and that is where
Mr. Hovell wanted to keep free of beach raking.
June 13, 2002
Mr. Strapponi suggested that until they get the city's position and a policy
recommendation from staff, they have the full-time beach inspector handle the
schedule of the raking. Mr. Galleberg agreed, but he stated they needed to
hear from staff before they make any policy changes. Mr. Pennington
suggested that the turtle inspectors could note areas that need raking when
they do their daily turtle checks. Mr. Roellig commented that if the city
reduced its frequency of beach raking, then frequency in the county should not
then increase. Mr. Pires wanted to give staff direction that the board wanted
to move towards moderate beach raking. Mr. Galleberg requested that the
staff provide something on paper at the September meeting discussing the
committee's consensus to rake as needed. They also needed to let each
jurisdiction make the decision on how they wanted to proceed.
Mr. Pennington suggested they talk with DEP and request to do inspections
and rake when they have found rocks. Mr. Galleberg thought this needed to
be tied together with the other issues involved. Mr. Pennington moved that
at the September meeting, staff comes back with a written policy proposal
including input from the committee, the public, the Conservancy, the 3
jurisdictions, and the DEP, Mr. Roellig seconded. Passed unanimously.
Mr. Roellig suggested that staff also get input from the major businesses
located on the beach.
Project Updates
Mr. Hovell had a PowerPoint presentation for the following topics. He
mentioned that Wiggins Pass was dredged in March and they put 55,000 yards
of sand on Delnor-Wiggins State Park. Vanderbilt beach has had 60% of rock
removal done. Clam Pass Park was dredged in February and dunes were
planted in April. Park Shore had 9,000 cubic yards of sand placed by the
seawall. Naples beach, north of Central Avenue, has had rocks removed and
46,000 cubic yards of sand has been placed. They still need to do planting of
sea oats on Naples and Park Shore. Naples beach, south of Central Avenue, is
reserved for the Parker Sand Web system. There were two applications with
negative recommendations by the CAC, and both were denied by the TDC
and BCC. For Caxambas Pass dredging, they will get on with planning to
dredge this winter. Mr. Snediker asked if they had a report from Taylor
Engineering. Mr. Hovell answered he has received it and they recommended
the dredging of Caxambas Pass in the next year or so.
Mr. Snediker believed the breakwaters were fine the way they are and he felt
they don't need to spend the money. He suggested taking the sand from the
dredging and placing it back on the beach up to marker 147. He also
recommended that they apply for a grant from the state to get funding for the
parking lot. Mr. Hovell stated that they send all projects to the DEP and
typically they get very little assistance from the state. Mr. Pennington
questioned whether the sand from Caxambas Pass would be placed back on
June 13, 2002
dw
the beach, and Mr. Hovell agreed and stated it would be about 75,000 cubic
yards.
Mr. Hovell stated the next update was the breakwater modifications. He felt
they wouldn't want to spend the money and get a permit when they have a
desire to do the sand bypassing from Caxambas Pass. He added they would
not be actively pursuing the project, but he didn't know how to handle this
procedurally. Mr. Snediker thought they could straighten out the bookkeeping
after they made their final decision. Mr. Galleberg said they could take it off
the list the next time the committee does the approval process. Mr. Hovell
was concerned they would drop the money out of the budget, so he felt it
should be more official.
Mr. Hovell stated the need for various incremental beach maintenance
activities, many of which were already discussed. The next update was on the
Hideaway Beach access improvements. The staff's recommendation was to
defer executing the project until they have a better understanding of where the
sand is going in that area. Mr. Snediker stated that this area was very well
protected by Sand Dollar Island and there was very little erosion around the
mangroves. He believed they would need very Tittle sand to fill in the area in
question. He also discussed the proposal to build a small bridge over Little
Clam Pass to get a nice area to walk from Tigertail to Hideaway Beach.
Mr. Hovell noted the countywide sand search was already in progress. He
stated the Beach Emergency Response Plan's goal was to understand what
impacts they would have from storms, how they would respond to them, and
how they would budget for this to fix beaches. Mr. Pennington wanted to
know where they were going with the sand search. Mr. Hovell answered that
a grant application has been approved. Mr. Pennington expressed that the
committee should be advised more on this, including the process and
objective. Mr. Hovell said he would provide this information. Mr.
Pennington questioned about the stockpile of sand, but had never been
acquired by the county.
Project Cost Sharing
Mr. Hovell went through a slide show with aerial photographs of the county's
beaches. He pointed out the public accesses and beach distances for each
section. In summary, Mr. Hovell calculated there was 110,000 feet of
developed beach in Collier County; 42% within the city of Naples, 17%
within the city of Marco Island, and 41% in the unincorporated county. Mr.
Pennington noted that he just recently learned that the county owned
significant beachfront in the Pelican Bay area. He suggested they should gain
an easement through Pelican Bay for public access.
Mr. Hovell questioned what kind of budget estimate do they need to have in
reserves in case of a catastrophe. He noted that FEMA won't give any
June 13,2002
IV.
assistance for beaches that have not been maintained, and currently the county
only maintains about 25-30% of its beaches. Mr. Hovell estimated it would
take about $10-15 million to recover from a catastrophe. He noted that they
have lost about 10% of their 1 O-year plan budget since the interest has been
diverted from the funds into the general revenues, which had already been in
their budget equating to a $5 million loss over 10 years. Mr. Hovell stated
they have not yet received approval from FEMA for the damage caused by
Tropical Storm Gabfielle, for which they had $3 million in the budget. Upon
speaking to the engineer, he did not get the impression that they were going to
get approval. Mr. Galleberg suggested they discuss this at a future meeting
because he thought this money was a given. Mr. Pennington was concerned
that $10 million for reserves may not be sufficient for a large storm.
Mr. Hovell added that other beaches could need additional maintenance, as
well. There was also the desire to improve public beach accesses and parking.
There are additional, unanticipated costs that are not part of the 1 O-year plan;
to replace the T-groins at Hideaway beach which is estimated at $2 million,
and the countywide beach fill is about $3 million more than expected. He
discussed public access verse private property fights and who was paying the
bill. Mr. Hovell noted that in the Growth Management Plan in the section on
Conservation and Coastal Management, one of the goals is for the county to
ensure that access to the beaches remain available for the public and to
continue with its program to expand accessibility in a method to fund its
acquisition. He also read that if existing access points are not sufficient, than
the county shall acquire additional access points as part of the renourishment
project. He recommended they do benefits analysis and cost sharing with the
adjacent property owners.
(There was a 5-minute break at 2:50 P.M.)
10-Year Plan Update
This topic was addressed in the Project Cost Sharing discussion and later in
the meeting.
NEW BUSINESS
a. Hideaway Beach Renourishment (10502) Supplemental Grant
Application
Mr. Hovell asked for the Coastal Advisory Committee to recommend a grant
of $55,000 to do a benefits analysis, which would make recommendations on
the sharing of costs in relation to public and private benefits. Humiston and
Moore have done this type of benefits analysis for other projects. They would
obtain the ownership and property value data for each beachfront property,
look at computing the storm impact from storms, look at benefits from having
better storm protection, and also look at the recreation and public benefits
analysis.
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June 13, 2002
Mr. Galleberg asked if the $55,000 was an added expense, and Mr. Hovell
said yes. Mr. Pires asked if there were other consultants who do this type of
assessment. Mr. Hovell stated that they have 3 coastal engineers under
contract; he spoke with two of them and they both recommended Dr. Strong at
Florida Atlantic University. Mr. Hovell said there were other options to be
considered other than doing a benefits analysis. The state's approach is to
calculate the public accessibility of a beach segment and will consider this
percentage to be eligible for cost sharing. Another approach would be that
since the state will only pay 50% of what is eligible, the TDC should only pay
the other 50% of what is eligible, leaving the remainder up to the private
interests.
Mr. Stakich felt that recommendation and action should be deferred for
another meeting, especially in regards to Marco. Mr. Roellig stated his
concerns about the need to have firm criteria for all Collier County beaches,
and felt it was only fair to use the same type of analysis for all beaches. Mr.
Hovell clarified that today they were only specifically asking to approve a
grant application to fund this analysis, but they will work for developing a
policy to do this analysis on all beaches, not just Hideaway. Mr. Pires felt
there should be a presentation by the consultant so the committee can decide
whether the methodology of this analysis could be used across the county. He
felt it was worthwhile to look at this option and have the flexibility at another
time.
Mr. Strapponi asked if the $55,000 was specifically for the analysis of
Hideaway Beach, and Mr. Hovell answered yes. Mr. Pennington felt they
should decide on the philosophical issue of project cost sharing before they
discuss any specific projects. Mr. Roellig stated that this type of analysis was
something that has been done all over the country and they were not plowing
any new ground in this discussion. Mr. Stakich noted that they had a tourist
development tax which provided sufficient funds for their current projects,
and he felt it was a waste of time to discuss this issue. He also objected to
starting this analysis on Marco Island. Ms. Lupo was concerned that they
haven't discussed this issue in depth and there wasn't a policy yet, but they
were asking the committee to authorize $55,000 for a specific area. She
questioned if where they were headed was for the condo and hotel owners to
pay to pay for portions of the renourishment. Mr. Hovell said in essence, yes,
unless it was publicly owned land. He added that the state views both
publicly owned land and hotels publicly accessible.
Bruce Anderson - Attorney representing Hideaway Beach Association
Mr. Anderson stated that Hideaway Beach did not want to be a guinea pig for
this analysis, and he felt that the money could be better spent to improve the
access between Tigertail and Hideaway, which the BCC has twice approved.
He noted the selling point of the tourist tax was that most of the money would
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June 13,2002
be used to maintain the beaches. He asked for the committee to pass on this
grant and direct it to enhance the access between Tigertail and Hideaway.
Mr. Roellig was concerned with mixing shore protection to the property
behind it with recreational uses of the beach. Mr. Galleberg clarified how the
tourist tax is allocated and he stated that not all the TDC needed to go to
tourism, but the tourist tax money could pay for beach renourishment.
David Somers - General Manager at Hideaway Beach
Mr. Somers urged the committee to not go with the economic study and to go
forward with the two projects that were already approved by the BCC.
Bill Moss - Representing the City of Marco Island
Mr. Moss stated that if they want to develop a countywide policy on funding
the beaches, they should focus on this issue rather than on one project. He
noted that they seemed to revisit the issues of public policy many times. The
city of Marco Island city council, Hideaway beach, the county attorney, and
the Board of County Commissioners have all determined it to be a public
beach, yet they keep asking whether it is really a public beach and deserving
of TDC funds. He said if they wanted to do this study, it should be
countywide and it should apply to future projects.
Ruth McCann - Executive Director of Marco Island Civic Association
Ms. McCann had similar concerns. She stated that decisions of this
magnitude should not be made in a room with less than 10 people that wasn't
even being televised. She added the BCC did not approve this analysis for
Hideaway Beach.
Mr. Hovell stated that they have initiated the engineering design because they
feel it is a worthy project, whether or not who funds it. Mr. Pires felt that it
might be better to talk about a policy rather than a specific project, but he felt
in general they should explore this possibility of cost sharing. Mr. Pennington
noted that the advertising of the tourist tax did not differentiate between public
and private accesses. He stated that he was torn because he did feel there was
a great need for more public accesses, but he didn't feel they should take one
beach segment as a trial for this. He added that the mean high-water line is
public on all beaches.
Mr. Galleberg stated that cost sharing was just a discussion for today, but they
needed to take action on the Hideaway Beach grant application. Mr. Stakich
noted that the BCC has approved item 10511 to connect Tigertail to Hideaway
Beach. Mr. Stakich moved to recommend to staff to initiate the design of
the project 10511 to improve public access to Hideaway Beach using the
option of the boardwalk with sand replacement for all other areas. Mr.
Galleberg noted that this was not on the agenda and the item before them was
item 4a. There was no second to the motion.
June 13,2002
Mr. Pires motioned for the committee to make a negative
recommendation to the TDC for the supplemental grant application of
$55,000 for the cost benefit analysis for Hideaway Beach, Mr. Roellig
seconded. Ms. Lupo and Mr. Snediker abstained from voting. The
motion carried 5 for and 1 against with 2 abstentions. Mr. Strapponi
voted against the motion.
(Mr. Pires left the meeting at 3:50 P.M.)
Mr. Snediker felt that they needed to move forward with the Hideaway Beach
access improvements. Mr. Hovell noted that the design was budgeted for
engineering services, but the engineer works sequentially. Mr. Stakich
questioned how they could direct staff to go ahead with the initiation of this
project. Mr. Hovell stated that he previously mentioned that they are not
actively pursuing this project based on the fact that they are planning to do a
projection of the sand movements in that area. Mr. Galleberg felt it was not
an appropriate action for the CAC to recommend staff to proceed with the
project, and since the decision was made by the BCC, he felt it was their
jurisdiction. If they wanted to make a statement to the board as a committee,
they should put it on the agenda at the next meeting. Mr. Roellig agreed. Mr.
Pennington also agreed and stated they are an advisory committee and they
have advised.
Mr. Galleberg asked if item 3e on the 1 O-year plan had been addressed. Mr.
Hovell stated that they touched on this, but he wanted to discuss it a little
further. He stated they have begun the sand search for hydraulic fill and he
recommended that all the major renourishments be done by hydraulic fill
rather than by trucking. For Vanderbilt beach, there will be a truck haul for
the dune restoration, but the main beach renourishment will be done by
hydraulic fill in 2 or 3 years, as well as for Park Shore.
Mr. Roellig asked if there were TDC funds coming in and they have a certain
amount allocated for beach renourishment, if they don't spend that money this
year, could the county spend it on other things. He recommended that the
county attorney take a look at it. Mr. Snediker mentioned the BCC
recommended they split up the money into allocated and unallocated, and he
questioned if they were going to do this for the 1 O-year plan. Mr. Hovell
stated that they had discussed taking the reserves and calling it unallocated
reserves and catastrophe reserves. He said they would continue to look at this.
(Mr. Stakich left the meeting at 4:10 P.M.)
AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION
There was no audience participation at this time.
a. Committee Comments
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June 13, 2002
VI.
VII.
Mr. Snediker questioned whether they considered using leftover concrete for
the T-groins underneath the water and then using attractive rocks for the
above sea-level portion. He felt this could drastically reduce the costs.
Roy Anderson - Engineering Director
Mr. Anderson said they could take a look at this and report back the
feasibility.
Mr. Snediker questioned the difference between fine sand and coarse sand,
and asked if they could use coarser sand so they would have more leftover
after a year, compared with the fine sand. Mr. Hovell noted that they were
using the coarsest sand at this time.
SCHEDULE NEXT MEETING
There was some discussion as to when to hold the next meeting and what topics
the committee needed to still cover. It was decided that they would schedule the
meeting for September 12, 2002 at 1:30 P.M. in the boardroom.
Mr. Galleberg urged that in future meetings, the committee needed to stay on
point with the agenda of the day.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 4:30 P.M.
COASTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL
GARY GALLEBERG, CHAIRMAN
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF MANPOWER SERVICES, INC., BY AMBER M.
FREDERIKSEN, RPR.
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