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Minutes 05/23/1990 MINUTES PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD GOLDEN GATE COMMUNITY PARK NAPLES, FLORIDA MAY 23, 1990 PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman Mr. Steve Ball, Vice Chairman Ms. Geneva Till rli ,Lp ;7 Mr. Kevin O'Donnell, Public Services Administrator C._ •j ._ if Page #2 PARAB Minutes 05/23/90 Meeting VII. RECREATION FACILITIES OF AMERICA: Discussion of the Executive Summary making a recommendation through the County Attorneys' Office to the BCC and the PARAB Boards, to make an adjustment on the rental fee for Recreational Facilities of America as it pertains to the boat rentals only, until such time that the vegetation project is completed. Mr. Steve Ball recommended that we approve contingent upon Parks and Recreation going back & getting some of those items cleared up that Murdo referred to in his letter. This motion died, for lack of a second. PARAB took no action. Maintain status quo. Mr. Kim Kobza requested to hold items #IX (Plastics on Beaches) and #XIII (North Naples Community Park) until the next meeting in order to shorten the length of this meeting. VIII. CONCESSION OPTIONS: The current Food Concessionaire at Tigertail Beach has requested early release of his contract. He has ceased his operation. We have made alternative arrangements for vending machines, and performing various maintenance projects including maintaining and rehabilitating the food trailer. Ms. Geneva Till commented that hiring a concessionaire has not been satisfactory, and on that note, moved for the County take over operations of the concession. (See Tigertail Beach Food Concession Document #BL:rtd:2228 for further details) Mr. Steve Ball seconded the motion for discussion purposes. The motion passed 2-1. IX. PLASTICS ON BEACHES: Moved up to the June 27, 1990 meeting. X. MARCO RIVER MARINA: Request to construct additon dock at Caxambas Boat Ramp. Staff has permit application filled out, needs BCC Chairman signaure. Mr. Steve Ball motioned to recommend approval of the request. Ms. Geneva Till seconded, and the motion passed 3-0. XI. GUIDELINE CHANGES: Discussion on Guidelines, and what to change. Propriety as to who speaks when, what kind of time you have to speak, etc. were discussed. Moved up to the June 27, 1990 meeting. XII. BEACH PARKING PERMITS: 11::) This is a follow up to a Memo that Mr. Kevin O'Donnell had sent the PARAB Members about instituting a Beach Parking Permit. Lely Barefoot Beach parking fee was discussed. Mr. Steve Ball motioned not to Charge at Lely for entering park facilities. Ms. Geneva Till seconded, and the motion passed 2-1. An agreement was reached by the PARAB Members to approve a Beach Parking Permit 3-0. Mr. Steve Ball motioned to approve an Annual Beach Parking permit program that's valid for all the County Beaches, and that we charge a fee of $30.00 per vehicle, and that we also direct staff to look into the possiblity of selling them at those facilities Beaches. Ms. Geneva Till seconded, and the motion passed 3-0 XIII. NORTH NAPLES COMMUNITY PARK: Moved up to the June 27, 1990 meeting. ACTION LIST Mr. Cliff Crawford updated PARAB Members. 1. CONKLIN POINT: We are getting estimates now for the design phase of the entire project. 2. NORTH NAPLES COMMUNTIY PARK BASEBALL FIELD: We don't have a tentative opening date yet. It is about 60% complete. 3. FRANK E. MACKLE COMMUNITY PARK BUILDING EXPANSION: Further discussion based upon some additional issues that need to be resolved with Wilson, Miller. 4. TIGERTAIL BEACH VEGETATION REMOVAL: BCC action on 5/15/90. XV. ADJOURNMENT Mr. Steve Ball motioned to adjourn at 5:00 p.m. Ms. Geneva Till seconded, and the motion passed unanimously. rtd:002381 EXPANDED MINUTES PARRS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD GOLDEN GATE COMMUNITY PARK NAPLES, FLORIDA MAY 23, 1990 PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman Mr. Steve Ball, Vice Chairman Ms. Geneva Till Mr. Kevin O'Donnell, Public Services Administrator Mr. Cliff Crawford, Parks & Recreation Dept. Director Mr. Murdo Smith, Parks & Recreation Dept. Manager Mr. Richard Yovanovich, Assistant County Attorney I ABSENT: M. Cherryle Thomas Mr. Gil Mueller (out of town) ALSO PRESENT: Don Pilcher, from Vanderbilt Property Owners Assoc. Pat Pilcher, also from Vanderbilt Property Owner Assoc. R. G Barnett, Vanderbilt Shores Condo Association Robert Graseck, Vanderbilt Gulfside Condo Association Steve Wheeler, Vanderbilt Inn On The Gulf Winifred Picher, Vanderbilt Gulfside Condo Association Paul Picher, Vanderbilt Gulfside Condo Association Andrew R. Plumb, Vanderbilt Gulfside Condo Association Gary O. Rabkin, Collier County Aquatic Foundation Tom Knocke, Collier County Aquatic Foundation Arthur Jacob, Vanderbilt Beach Property Owners Association Rudd Garrett, Vanderbilt Beach Property Owners Associaiton Priscilla L. Duane, Manager of Vanderbilt Shore Condo (Barcelona - Seville) Lawrence Doune, Vanderbilt Shore Condo (Barcelona-Seville) Nenette A. Cmareda, Vanderbilt Beach Property Owners Assoc. Herbert Braudt, Vanderbilt Beach Property Owners Assoc. V. Dorothy Bowyer, Vanderbilt Gulfside Condo Assoc, & Vanderbilt Property Owners Assoc. Anthony J. Bowyer, Vanderbilt Gulfside Condo Assoc. , & Vanderbilt Property Owners Assoc. Helen R. Cambell, Beachmoor, Condo Assooc. & Vanderbilt Property Owners Assoc. I. CALL, TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at 1:10 p.m. II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG Page #2 PARAB Expanded Minutes 05/23/90 Meeting C XIV. MISCELLANEOUS NEW OR OLD BUSINESS: Mr. Cliff Crawford & Mr. Kim Kobza Presented awards to two former Parks & Recreation Advisory Board members: Charlie Stevens, and Mr. Scott McQuillin. Mr. Kim Kobza requested that at the next mooting, Meeting Protocal, Rules of discussion, Open/Closed Discussion periods for public input, etc. need to be set. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Approval of 04/19/90 & 04/26/90 Minutes. Motioned by Ms. Geneva Till, seconded by Mr. Steve Ball, and passed unanimously. 4 IV. CATAMARAN ORDINANCE: Mr. Kim Kobza opened the floor for public discussion. The County Attorney Rick Yvonovich was present for discussion purposes at the request of the Chairman. Mr. Anthony Boyer, Mr. Steve Wheeler, Mr. Richard Barnett, Mr. Arthur Jacob, Ms. Pat Pilcher, Mr. Andrew Plum (passed around pictures & a sample notice form he uses) , and Mr. Reed Garrett all presented their views. Kevin O'Donell expressed the following concerns: "(1) Currently there is no ordinance on the books that regulates parking of vessels on the beaches. The County 410 Attorneys' Office doesn't draft ordinances without sufficient direction to put together any kind of ordinance. (2) From what I've heard now, it isn't a Public Service Division problem, and I've got a concern with having the ordinance come back to Parks & Recreation Advisory Board, because I've got a question wether or not my staff needs to be involved in it. This sounds like a problem for Compliance Services, they are the inspection personnel of the County that deal with those type of parking, zoning violations. My people don't do that type of enforcement. Particularly since none of this is happening at a County Park facility. All the examples given were in front of condos and in front of hotels. We're not going to have our Park Ranger out there in front of a condominium. There is a very limited amount of public beach access points now, I believe there's a half dozen or so. The Commission hasn't given us any direction about parking, no parking, developing that or not. We'd have to acquire space to park the catamarans on, so I've got an operational concern as to wether or not my Division needs to be involved in this." Mr. Kim Kobza commented: "The first point I think we can handle through recommendation. I am very sensitive to the operation which is involved in Parks & Recreation. But I would draw upon our past experience, and this Board has specifically been asked in the past with the Beach & Water Safety Ordinance to review policies, and establish policies, and all the waters of the county, all the county beaches related to camping, water safety, vessel corridors, on and on. I can think of concessionaires, +rrr... Page #3 Expanded Minutes 05/23/90 0 not at County parks, solicitation on the beach. . . I'll just be very plain spoken about where I'm coming from here. I don't want to send these people here through another level of bureaucracy! I'd like to have us here. . . This is a public forum, where we have an opportunity for public input, we can review ordinances in a public fashion with input from everybody, I mean including the catamaran owners. I really do believe it's appropriate form. Now at a County Board level, if they come back to us, and they say '. . .that we don't have the resources in our department to deal with the operational aspects of an ordiance. . . ' I don't have any problem with that, if Developmental Services ends up doing it. Although, it would be an interesting predicate, and something we may want to talk through about our Park Ranger Program. I would think that a Park Ranger would be less expensive than a County Sheriff." Mr. Kevin O'Donnell: "My Park Rangers only have authority inside County Park facilities. Once beyond the park limits, the Ranger doesn't have any authority." Mr. Kim Kobza: "I understand what the existing policies are, all I'm suggesting is that we may want to look at those policies." Mr. Richard Yovanovich: "It might be something that we can review as Board, and not necessarily. . . Or just to give some input on. . . Not necessarily have to be implemented through your division." Mr. Steve Ball suggested that regarding and ordinance, we might want to consider the legal quesitons first, and get some direction from the County Attorneys' Office. Mr. Richard Yovanovich made a recommendation that Mr. Kevin O'Donnell send to him an RLS (Request for Legal Services form) telling him what the PARAB members would like him to research. The seven questions are: (1) Whether or not Catamarans, the and the size listed in the State Statute requires liscencing to be able to park on the beach. Can the County regulate such? (2) Can the County Designate certain areas for parking of the vessels? (3) Can the County designate certain launch areas for Catamaran, Sun Fish, and other sail craft vessels. (4) Can the County regulate the parking between the Land and Mean High Water Mark? What is our authority down to the High Mean Water Line? Co we have the authority or the jurisdiction as a County to regulate the parking between the high mean water mark, and water? (5) Can the County regulate parking on private property, particullary Beachfront property? Can we make it a misdemeanor to park a Catamaran on private property without regulation? A tresspass regulation? Can we Do that without it being a land use type of regulation? (6) Can the County regulate hours and days for a Beach Parking permit? We for instance say, that registration permit allows somebody to park for "X" number days a year, or all the days to the year? That somebody doesn't park a catamaran without periodically checking it. (7) To advise the PARAB memberss of other jurisdictions (North Immo Page #4 Expanded Minutes 05/23/90 0 (7 continued) Carolina, South Carolina) that have similar types of ordinances relating Catamarans on the beach. If it would be possible for us to review any copies of those other ordinances? It would give us more concrete direction. These seven (7) questions were asked of The County Attorney, Mr. Rick Yvonavich to provide some direction to us, and what route to go. Mr. Kim Kobza suggested to request that the BCC authorize staff to draft an ordinance to regulate catamarans in the beach environment, and to bring that ordinance back to us for further review and discussion togther with a Memorandum regarding jurisdiction, and what our authority actually is. Mr. Kim Kobza requested that the Parks and Recreation staff then write up a report for the PARAB Members to review. The floor was reopened for Public discussion. Mr. Barnett, Mr. Wheeler, Mr. Garrett, and Ms. Dorthy Boyer all presented their views. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell explained, that to deal with with specific issue of parking, we're going to need Board direction to do so. We just can't go off on our own and do that. If the commission says "Do it!", so be it! Whether or not it's an amendment to the existing ordinance or not is immaterial. Ms. Geneva Till moved to Direct staff to request from the County Attorneys' Office, answers to the seven questions that we have defined here today, and come back to us at our June meeting with answers to those questions in order that we may then make a recommendation or choose not to make a recommendation to the County Board at that point in time. Mr. Steve Ball seconded, and the motion passed 3-0. V. BUDGE REVIEW: Mr. Kevin O'Donnell: We can't give you a date yet. The BCC wants to look at the General Fund Budgets prior to them going on Summer Recess, which would be the last week of June. They have tentatively set the 18th. to the 22nd. to take up all the County operations. We don't know what day out of that Public Services will be coming up. We haven't gone through the capital budgets yet, and the operational budgets are in the process of having some changes made right now. A special meeting was suggested by Mr. Kim Kobza. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell: What PARAB looks at is basically the Capitals (306 Fund) for the Growth Management Plan. What has happened in the past, is that we have not adheared to the Growth Management Plan, due to financial pressures, we've had to post pone things. Particularly, a Community Center in North Naples, and a couple of facilities in East Naples. It would be appropriate for PARAB to sit back, and recommend to the BCC, that we stay on plan "X", "Y", "Z", or whatever it's going to be. Mr. Kim Kobza brought the new PARAB members up to date on what happened last year, and his reasons for having the Budget Review subject on the Page #5 Expanded Minutes 05/23/90 Meeting C Agenda. Mr. Steve Ball would like to know what the Capital Projects are. The BCC's meeting is a workshop. The BCC wil take Public Services division up once, and then they'll make their descisions. This is the meeing for our division, so we will need to know what we want at this time. They'll be going in, saying yes, no, etc. Then they will have a wrap-up session, and then they will be going into full blown public hearings, which are required, in September. Those are the evening meetings. A special meeting was proposed for June the 13th. at 1:00 p.m. here at the Golden Gate Community Park. VI. OLEIC POOL--GOLDEN GATE COMMUNITY PARK: Ms. Davidson was not here. Mr. Steve Ball made a recommendation to move this project up to the 1991-92 budget year. Ms. Geneva Till seconded. No vote was taken. Mr. Steve Ball recinded his motion. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell pointed out a problem with that. Traditionally, in Parks and Recreation in any one year in 306 is around $3 million. So, you are talking over 2/3's of the Park's and Recreation allocation going towards one project. But I think right now, the projects that we've got. . . (1) The Multipurpose Gymnasium in East Naples (2) Four Community Centers (Golden Gate, North Naples, Immokalee, and East Naples) (3) Work associated with the development of Barefoot Beach (4) The Conklin Point Boat Launch Facility (5) The Little League Baseball Field for Golden Gate & North Naples. Those are the projects right now, that we are looking at collectively, and that totals roughly four and a half to five million dollars. A lot of those projects were deferred from last year. Alternative funding avenues were ecplored for the Olympic Pool project. Mr. Kim Kobza: Suggest to review this subject further at the Budget Meeing on June 13. The floor was opened & closed for public discussion: Mr. Tom Conoke, and Mr. Gary Rabkin presented their views. Mr. Steve Ball moved that we move the construction for the pool to the 1990-91 fiscal year and have staff make recommendations at that time. Ms. Geneva Till seconded. No vote was taken. Mr. Kim Kobza presented his view on this subject. Ms. Geneva Till expressed her strong feelings for an Olympic Swimming Pool in this area. We do have ball fields, Community Centers, but no swimming pool, which we need in this area. PARAB Members agreed to discuss this further at the next meeting. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell urged the PARAS members to talk to the BCC Members about this issue. Mr. Steve Ball recinded this motion also, but recommended that we put the Olympic Pool on the Adgenda for the June 13th. meeting, still having the different alternatives. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell said that we'll fine tune the cost of the pool, and whatever that number comes to, we'll give you a multitude of combinations from projects available that are in #306 now that could be deleted that will equal that dollar amount. Page #6 Expanded Minutes 05/23/90 Meeting VII. RECREATION FACILITIES OF AMERICA: Discussion of the Executive Summary making a recommendation through the County Attorneys' Office to the BCC and the PARAB Boards, to make an adjustment on the rental fee for Recreaitonal Facilities of America as it pertains to the boat rentals only, until such time that the vegetation project is completed. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell presented staff's recommendation. Mr. Kim Kobza: In your amendment, would that be for a period of time? Mr. Kevin O'Donnell: It probably would be for the extension of the contract, which runs through December of 1990. Then, the County has the right to extend for three years at its own discreation under the same terms and conditons. So it that was in the new terms and conditions, potentially that would be carried forth too. Mr. Kim Kobza: Do you think it's necessary to keep him in business, and to keep him at the park site. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell: I think that's a real judgement call. Mr. Kim Kobza: Are we potentially setting a precident for other Concessionaires? Mr. Kevin O'Donnell: Yes! There's no quesiton about it. Mr. Steve Ball recommended that we approve contingent upon us going back & getting some of those items cleared up that Murdo referred to in his letter. This motion died, for lack of a second. PARAB took no action. Maintain status quo. Mr. Kim Kobza requested to hold items #IX (Plastics on Beaches) and #XIII (North Naples Community Park) until the next meeting in order to shorten the length of this meeting. VIII. CONCESSION OPTIONS: The Current Concessionaire at Tigertail Beach has requested early release of his contract. He has ceased his operation providing food service. We have made alternative arrangements for vending machines, and performing various maintenance projects including maintaining and rehabilitating the food trailer. The were various options concerning the concession including county operated as well as contractural operations. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell informed the PARAB members that the concessionaire is gone, he litterally packed up, and left. But, this doesn't hurt us too bad, the reasons being we own the equipment, the facility that the food is sold out of, and everything in it. We decided earlier to do this intentionally, in case we ever had problems with the Concessionaire, we would have a little bit of flexibility. Options A, B, and C were discussed. Mr. Kim Kobza asked what Option did staff prefer. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell replied that we've got to make money on it. Mr. Kim Kobza asked staff how they felt about management of that kind of operation. Staff replied, saying that we mixed feelings. Some of staff's concerns were: We haven't done it before, we'll right in the middle of a competitive market, there is auditing accounting and cost control, resale of goods, resource of time, and staffing. The pros and cons of the County Tuning as opposed to a concessionaire running the stand were discussed. Ms. Geneva Till commented that hiring a concessionaire has not been satisfactory, and on that note, moved for the County take over operations of the concession. (See Tigertail Beach Food Concession Document Page #7 Expanded Minutes 05/23/90 Meeting C #BL:rtd:2228 for further details) Mr. Steve Ball seconded the motion for discussion purposes. Mr. Kim Kobza commented, "Philosophically, private enterprizes are kind of unique. Knowing how to prepare food and get is out. On that basis I'd rather see a private enterprise operation do it. Now, I this is kind of a peculiar situation. We could take a run at it, and see if it would work." The utilizaiton of Vo-tech students was suggested. Ms. Geneva Till also commented that if the City can make money, why can't the County do it? The motion passed 2-1. IX. PLASTICS ON BEACHES: Moved up to the June 27, 1990 meeting. X. MARCO RIVER MARINA: A request to construct dock space to be able to support larger vessels for docking so they may provide service to them, so they may provide fuel and/or other services, and/or removal for repair. The consessionaire has been with us for a number of repairs, and has indicated to us that this dock would certainly benefit the opportunity for additional service. It would also obviously require State of ® Florida permits, and would become part of the infa structure facility at this location, and at the termination of the contract the permitted sturctures would become part of the Collier County inventory. The concessionaire has offered to make some enhancement to the facility at his expense. There is an Appreciation schedule for the facility as it clicks in, and ultimately after a period of three more years, it becomes a County owned facility. Mr. Kim Kobza asked, "What size boats would be allowed?" Staff commented that the proposed floating dock is 44 feet, so you could dock a fairly sizeable unit. Mr. Kim Kobza also asked, "Does it have any potential negative consequences from a Water Way standpoing? Will it restrict?" Staff commented, "I don't believe so!" Mr. Murdo Smith commented, that he is also proposing a fixed 50 foot dock on one side of the sea wall. A question arose at to wether there is potential for a pump out station to be located there? This has to go before the state for approval on a Permit Application. Mr. Steve Ball motioned to recommend approval of the request. Ms. Geneva Till seconded, and the motion passed 3-0. XI. GUIDELINE CHANGES: Discussion as to haw to and what to change in the Guidelines. Propriety as to who speaks when, what kind of time you have to speak, etc. were discussed. Mr. Steve Ball asked about letting the Chairman make a motion, especially when there is only three Members present at meetings. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell suggested that the PARAB Members read Page #8 Expanded Minutes 05/23/90 Meeting C over the current guidelines before making any changes. Moved up to the June 27, 1990 meeting. XII. BEACH PARKING PERMITS: This is a follow up to a Memo that Mr. Kevin O'Donnel had sent the PARAB Members. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell questioned how we are going to define it. Mr. Kim Kobza suggested that this permit might enhance our revenues. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell's concern was how or who we the County, are going to define people as elligible. Mr. Cliff Crawford suggested that the Board needs to consider, is that since the recommendation to the BCC that we increase the fees the generation or interest of potentially some type of permit system would seem to increase. If you are going to increace your fee from $1.00 to $2.00, the regular users interest my increase also for some type of permit system. PARAB Members had previously voted to mantain status quo. Concerns arrose as to how to charge. You don't need to own a vehicle to get a permit with the City. Mr. Cliff Crawford sugested to be consistent with the City of Naples. PARAB members were concerned with the issue of discrimination. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell commented that the most people that we get the call from, are the people that live generally in close proximity to either Clam Pass, Vanderbilt, and/or Tigertail. They're close enough to want to drive to that particular site every day, and getting hit with the $1.00 charge. At Lely Barefoot Beach, there is one metered lot, and one non-metered lot, which brought up concerns of cost, illegal parking, no staff will be present. Mr. Steve Ball motioned not to Charge at Lely for entering park facilities. Ms. Geneva Till seconded, and the motion passed 2-1. An agreement was reached among the PARAB Members to permit, 3-0. (this was not a motion) Anybody can by a permit. A $15.00 per year fee was chosen 4-5 years ago. Mr. Steve Ball suggested selling the permits at the various Beach Parking facilities. Mr. Cliff Crawford: The state charges one person vehicles $26.50, and 6 person vehicles $53.00 for all the state parks. Or, $1.00 per driver, plus $.50 each passenger. A per vehicle charge was agreed upon. The permit si a substitute for a daily per vehicle charge. The permit is a charge to park your car. Mr. Steve Ball motioned to approve an Annual Beach Parking permit program that's valid for all the County Beaches, and that we charge a fee of $30.00 per vehicle, and that we also direct staff to look into the possiblity of selling them at those facilities Beaches. Ms. Geneva Till seconded, and the motion passed 3-0 XIII. NORTH NAPLES COMMUNITY PARK: Moved up to the June 27, 1990 meeting. Page #9 Expanded Minutes 05/23/90 Meeting C ACTION LIST Mr. Cliff Crawford updated PARAB Members. 1. C)NKLIN POINT: We are getting estimates now for the design phase of the entire project. 2. NORTH NAPLES COMMUNTIY PARR BASEBALL FIELD: We don't have a tentative opening date yet. It is about 60% complete. 3. FRANK E. N CKLE COMMUNITY PARK BUILDING EXPANSION: I am going to have further discussion based upon some additional issues that need to be resolved with Wilson, Miller, as well as with some other people concerning the cost associated with the project. We're not ready to make a recommendation to you at this point. 4. TIGERTAIL BEACH VEGE'T'ATION REMOVAL: Pursuant to the PARAB Members recommendation the BCC took a unanimous action on 5/15/90 to recommend the most extensive removal possible in recommending to the State of Florida for vegetation removal. Going back to the 1983 line. They went further than what PARAB had recommended. About 75-100,000 square feet further. ® XV. ADJOURNMENT Mr. Steve Ball motioned to adjourn at 5:00 p.m. Ms. Geneva Till seconded, and the motion passed unanimously. rtd:002317