Loading...
Minutes 04/26/1990 S; MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD GOLDEN GATE COMMUNITY PARK NAPLES, FIDRIDA APRIL 26, 1990 PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman Mr. Gil Mueller Ms. Geneva Till Mr. Murdo Smith Mr. Cliff Crawford, (Departed early) Mr. Kevin O'Donnell, (Arrived at 3:20 p.m.) ABSENT: Mr. Steve Ball, Vice Chairman Ms. Cherryle Thomas ALSO PRESENT: Mr. Harry Huber, OCPM/ Engineering Dept. Tech. Serv. Superv. J. O'Brien of the Marco Island Eagle F. J. Blanchard of the Marco Beach Renourish Advisory Com. Shari Jones, Collier County Recreation Supervisor I. Call to Order: The meeting was called to order at 3:12 p.m. by Mr. Kim Kobza II. Pledge of Allegiance: The Pledge of Allegiance commenced at 3:15 p.m. III. Tigertail Vegetation: Staff Presentation by Mr. Cliff Crawford & Mr. Harry Huber. Map Presentation by Harry Huber. Discussion of the two options being considered. Option #1 (The pocket approach) is the one we had looked at in conjunction with Environmental Services, and felt that was a reasonable approach. Option #2 is the one that was influenced by the public, to explore more removal of vegetation. Review of Options One and Two. Environmental Services preference was the pocket approach. Mr. Cliff Crawford informed the board that the D&R preferred the pocket approach. But any other approached that the public, the Board, or staff felt, would be entertained in terms of reviewing. The state has the final word regardless of whatever our recommendation may be. The State has indicated to us, based upon previous conversations, that they would be amenable to some removal. The State would, however have a natural tendency to lean toward the Pocket Approach, only because again, we lose less vegetation. They are inclined to want to see the vegetation stay there, since it has taken hold. There was no recommendation made by Parks Staff over which direction they would like to see the Board take. C Page #2 PARAB--Special Meeting 04/26/90 C Mr. Cliff Crawford commented, in his opinion, that extreme of almost 400,000 square feet, because of sane other concerns of Mr. Huber has, would be about the maximum that our staff would entertain. Mr. Huber commented that, ". . .we're basically showing you the two extremes, and in no way would I personally recommend miend anything over and above this right naw." During the period of Public discussion, Mr. Frank Blanchard strongly recommended that we take the larger of the two areas. He pointed out that between the southern boundary (at the edge of the parking lot of the first building) , there's a grove of buttonwood trees right along the beach side so we really don't see the edge of the parking lot. But, between the edge of those buttonwoods and the beach, you'll find that the grass has now migrated down into this area, it's advancing all the time. He doesn't think that's good to our neighbors." Mr. Gil Mueller said, "I'm of the opinion that it's important to make available as much of this beach as we possibly can. We have only three accesses now, and if we don't have Tigertail, we have much less." Mr. Blanchard said, "It seems to me there's no point in having accesses or parking lots, unless you have sand there for active recreation. If you don't have space for active recreation, then really all you are looking for is additional bird sanctuaries. There are many places inland that give you much the same sort of view. So, again, I think from a Parks standpoint if you look at a comprehensive plan of developing an area, they talk in terms of haw much active beach area for recreation you have. This is precious little." Mr. Gil Mueller feels that if a professionally maintained beach is minimized, it is going to present some additional problems of people leaving there and going elsewhere, and trying to get in along the way to the beach. So, I think it is important that we expand this beach, that we maintain it properly, and that it be utilized as one of the last remaining beautiful beaches in South West Florida." Public Discussion was frau 3:40 p.m. until 3:45 p.m. Mr. Gil Mueller updated Ms. Geneva Till by explaining the following: The original line of vegetation's purpose was put in for erosion purposes. For protection in the event of a major storm. However, that original line of vegetation has been allowed to proliferate on towards the water, and the result now, is that there is about 15 feet of usable beach. Mr. Kim Kobza: "I'm generally going to support a motion to make an application for the maximum amount of excavation. The reasons that I'm going to support that type of motion are: (1) I believe we have a substantial investment in active public beach resource. We do have competing public interest between an active and a passive environment. I believe that it's necessary, based upon my inspection of that site, and the public comment that we received that we have the additional beach. To maintain that as an active beach as apposed to a passive environment. I believe that would be a misuse of our investment there if we did not attempt to maintain it as an active beach site. (2) I think we are captive to the history here, somewhat. Historically, the 84 line, which we are currently reviewing, was C Page #3 PARAB--Special Meeting 04/26/90 approved apparently as the line of vegetation by several agencies (including the County and State agencies) , responsible for review of this beach development. So, I think that we have to remember history here, and based upon that history, it appears that those factors would militate in favor of us going back to the line in which we had originally had agreement and approval in 1984. Also, it appears to me, I find the comments that were made in the fist meeting in which we considered this issue, that had we raked the beach which we possibly could have done during this period of time, we may not have had the vegetation existing there. And so, we're not really asking for more than we otherwise could have had possibly. And that was a point that was made, correctly or incorrectly, but it seemed to me to have some validity. (3) When dealing with the State, realistically we're probably going to have to, in terms of posturing ourselves for negotiations with the state, ask for more rather than less, to you end up somewhere in-between if that's in fact what happens. I think if we get the maximum amount that we're asking for it won't be detrimental to the environment. And in the otherhand, if it helps us to get to an intermediate position, That is probably The appropriate way to conduct the negotiations. So, for those reasons, I would support asking, the making of application for the maximum amount of excavation at this particular point in time. I would say, that I believe that Mother ® Nature may fool us all, and I think that Mr. Lorenz, when he made the presentation before us, very definitely made a good point. Which was is: One good storm, and this becomes a new issue. If we get a good, even a Tropical Storm, into this environment, it will move the vegetation line potentially. I think we have to understand, which was a point made by Mr. Lorenz, and many of environmentalists which came to our first meeting. No, we're not going to change the rules of nature by making this expenditure. So, it may be that this becomes a mood issue by the time that we get through the application process and follow storm season, and so forth. But, it's certainly worth going for at this point in time." Mr. Kevin O'Donnell explained the hand-out of the Draft Executive Summary that will be in the BCC Agenda of May 8, 1990. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell asked that one of the PARAB members be at that meeting, because Environmental Services Dept. has a problem with the "Pocket Approach" for the reasons that they've already expanded upon. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell's personal opinion, asked by Mr. Gil Mueller, was to lean towards the Pocket Approach. His reasons were: (1) Collier County has given special credence to the environmental concerns in the last couple of years. We've created and Environmental Services Division specifically for that. (2) In our own Budget book, we set out 1990 the year of the environment. We've just received the state award for our Growth Management Plan for environmental concerns. A lot of the Goals, policies, and objectives that are in those particular plans dovetail nicely with the pocket approach. To me is seems to be a logical scenario to follow. Mr. Gil Mueller volunteered to appear at the County C u Page #4 PARAB--Special Meeting 04/26/90 C Commissioner meeting, and to encourage them to go with this plan too in June. Because of vacation reasons, he couldn't possibly be at the May 8, 1990 meeting. Mr. Gil Mueller motioned That we recommend to the Board of County Commissioners that this Board approves the making of the application to the D&R for Option #2. Ms. Geneva Till seconded the motion, which was passed 3-0, unanimously. Mr. Kim Kobza will appear at the 05/08/90 BCC meeting. IV. Miscellaneous Old Business: A. Mr. Kim Kobza: We need to recognize Scott McQuillen, and Charlie Stevens for their services on the board. Maybe we can do that, if not at the next meeting, maybe at the June meeting. Mr. Murdo Smith: We do have plaques for them here. The only reason they weren't invited to the last meeting was, that they didn't feel they wanted to go to Immokalee. B. Mr. Gil Mueller: Are we planning on continuing our meetings out in the field, so to speak? If so, where will the next meeting be? Mr. Kevin O'Donnell: The next one you said was going to be here. We are going to be here at the GGCP, every other mooting V. Special Events: Ms. Shari Jones had some information that she wanted to bring the Board up to date on. Shari talked about the success of the "Up, Up, and Away! Easter, 1990" event, and "For Kids' Sake Day". She also informed the Board about the "Litter Olympics" event that was coming up on Saturday, April 28, 1990. The Glad Bag-A-Thon Special Event is going on this week, and passed out fliers. this event was to heighten the public's awareness of our environment. To start learning haw to recycle household items, not to be so wasteful, and to keep our environment clean. VI. Beach Parking Permit: Mr. Kevin O'Donnell explained a memo that he had sent to the PARAB members regarding this issue. This is to prompt discussion at the next month's meeting regarding an annual sticker permit. There of a couple of ways we can go. VII. Adjournment: Mr. Gil Mueller motioned to adjourn the meeting. Ms. Geneva Till seconded, it was passed unanimously. Adjourned at 4:25 p.m. rtd:001304 C AIMMMIMMW .4=1111 .111111.1.1 SPECIAL MEETING R,E�CENEU, NT �'4rks MINUIES MAY 161990 PARRS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD GOLDEN GATE COMMUNITY PARK NAPLES, FLORIDA APRIL 26, 1990 PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman Mr. Gil Mueller Ms. Geneva Till Mr. Murdo Smith Mr. Cliff Crawford, (Departed early) Mr. Kevin O'Donnell, (Arrived at 3:20 p.m.) ABSENT: Mr. Steve Ball, Vice Chairman Ms. Cherryle Thomas ALSO PRESENT: Mr. Harry Huber, OCPM/ Engineering Dept. Tech. Serv. Superv. J. O'Brien of the Marco Island Eagle F. J. Blanchard of the Marco Beach Renourish Advisory Com. Shari Jones, Collier County Recreation Supervisor I. Call to Order: The meeting was called to order at 3:12 p.m. by Chairman, Mr. Kim Kobza. II. Pledge of Allegiance: The Pledge of Allegiance commenced at 3:15 p.m. III. Tigertail Vegetation: Staff Presentation by Mr. Cliff Crawford & Mr. Harry Huber. Discussion of the two options being considered for removal of Vegetation. Option #1 (the pocket approach) was in conjunction with Environmental Services, and they thought it was a reasonable approach. Option #2 is taking concerns of the public to explore more removal of vegetation. Environmental Services preferred the pocket approach. Mr. Cliff Crawford stated that the staff would entertain and review any other alternatives the Board would have. The state has final approval of any recommendation we apply for. The State has indicated to us, based upon previous conversations, that they would be agreeable to some removal. The State, however, has a tendency to lean toward the Pocket Approach, only because, again, we remove less vegetation. No recommendation was made by Staff pertaining to which direction the Board should take. Mr. Cliff Crawford commented, in his opinion, that 400,000 square feet, of removal would be the maximum that our staff would recommend. Mr. Huber commented that, ". . .we're basically showing you the two extremes, and in no way would I personally recommend anything over and above this right C Page #2 PARAB--Special Meeting 04/26/90 naw." Firing the period of Public discussion, Mr. Frank Blanchard strongly recommended that we take the larger of the two areas. He pointed out that between the southern boundary (at the edge of the parking lot of the first <condo name> building) , there's a grove of buttonwood trees right along the beach side so we really don't see the edge of the parking lot. But, between the edge of those buttonwoods and the beach, you'll find that the grass has now migrated down into this area, it's advancing all the time. He doesn't think that's good to our neighbors." Mr. Gil Mueller said, "I'm of the opinion that it's important to make available as much of this beach as we possibly can. We have only three accesses now, and if we don't have Tigertail, we have much less." Mr. Blanchard said, "It seems to me there's no point in having accesses or parking lots, unless you have sand there for active recreation." Mr. Gil Mueller feels that, ". . .if a professionally maintained beach is minimized, it is going to present additional problems of people leaving and going elsewhere, and trying to get to the beach at various locations throughout the island. So, I think it is important that we expand this beach, that we maintain it properly, and that it be utilized as one of the last remaining beautiful beaches in South West Florida." Mr. Gil Mueller updated M. Geneva Till on the history and present condition of Tigertail Beach. Mr. Kim Kobza: "I'm generally going to support a motion to submit an application for the maximum amount of vegetation removal. The reasons that I'm going to support that type of motion are: (1) I believe we have a substantial investment in active public beach resource. We do have competing public interest between an active and a passive environment. I believe that it's necessary, based upon my inspection of that site and the public comment that we received, to maintain that as an active beach as opposed to a passive environment. I believe that would be a misuse of our investment there if we did not attempt to maintain it as an active beach site. (2) I think we are captive to the history here. Historically, the '84 line, which we are currently reviewing, was approved as the line of vegetation by several agencies (including the County and State agencies) , responsible for review of this beach development. So, I think that we have to remember history here, and based upon that, it appears that those factors would militate in favor of us going back to the line which had originally been approved in 1984. Also, I find the comments that were made on the first meeting in which we considered this issue, that if we raked the beach, we may not have had the vegetation existing there. And so, we're not really asking for more than we otherwise could have had, correct or incorrect, seems to have some validity. (3) When dealing with the State, realistically we're probably going to have to, in terms of posturing ourselves for negotiations, ask for more rather than less, C Page #3 PARAB--Special Meeting 04/26/90 0 and end up somewhere in-between if that's in fact what happens. I think if we get the maximum amount that we're asking for it won't be detrimental to the environment. And on the other hand, if it helps us to get to an intermediate position, then this is probably the appropriate way to conduct the negotiations. So, for those reasons, I would support applying for the maximum amount of removal at this particular point in time. I would say that I believe that Mother Nature may fool us all, and I think that Mr. Lorenz, when he made the presentation before us, very definitely made a good point. Which was: One good storm, and this becomes a dead new issue. If we get a good hurricane, or even a tropical storm, it potentially could move the vegetation line. I think we have to understand we're not going to change the rules of nature by performing this removal. So, it may be that this becomes a mute issue by the time that we get through the application process and storm season. But, it's certainly worth applying for at this point in time." Mr. Kevin O'Donnell explained a Draft Executive Summary that will be on the BCC Agenda of May 8, 1990. Mr. O'Donnell asked that one of the PARAB members be at that meeting. Mr. Gil Mueller asked Mr. O'Donnell's personal opinion, it was to lean towards the Pocket Approach. His reasons were: (1) Collier County has given special credence to the ® environmental concerns in the last couple of years. We've created an Environmental Services Division specifically for that. (2) In our own Budget book, we set 1990 as the year of the environment. We've just received the state award for our Growth Management Plan for environmental concerns. A lot of the goals, policies, and objectives that are in those particular plans dovetail nicely with the pocket approach. To me it seems to be a logical approach. Mr. Gil Mueller volunteered to appear at the County Commissioner meeting, and encourage them to approve the reconmiondation of the PARAB. However, because of vacation plans, he couldn't possibly be at the May 8, 1990 meeting. Mr. Gil Mueller motioned "That we recommend to the Board of County Commissioners that this Board approve submitting the application to the D&R for Option #2." Ms. Geneva Till seconded the motion, which was passed 3-0, unanimously. Mr. Kim Kobza will appear at the 05/08/90 BCC meeting. IV. Miscellaneous Old Business: A. Mr. Kim Kobza: We need to recognize Scott McQuillin, and Charlie Stevens for their services on the board. Maybe we can do that, if not at the next meeting, maybe at the June meeting. Mr. Murdo Smith: We do have plaques for them. The reason they weren't invited to the last meeting was because it was in Immokalee and staff felt we could invite them to the next meeting at Golden Gate. C a A Page #4 PARAB--Special Meeting 04/26/90 0 B. Mr. Gil Mueller: Are we planning on continuing our meetings at various locations, so to speak? If so, where will the next meeting be? Mr. Kevin O'Donnell: The next meeting will be at Golden Gate Administrative Offices. We are going to be here at the GGCP, every other meeting. V. Special Events: Ms. Shari Jones talked about the success of the "Up, Up, and Away! Easter, 1990" event, and "For Kids' Sake Day". She also informed the Board about the "Litter Olympics" event that was coming up on Saturday, April 28, 1990. The Glad Bag-A-Thon Special Event is going on this week, and passed out fliers. This event was to heighten the public's awareness of our environment-To start learning how to recycle household items, and to keep our environment clean. VI. Beach Parking Permit: Mr. Kevin O'Donnell explained a memo that he had sent to the PARAB members regarding this issue. This is to prompt discussion at the next month's meeting regarding an annual sticker permit. 41:1) VII. Adjournment: Mr. Gil Mueller motioned to adjourn the meeting. Ms. Geneva Till seconded, it was passed unanimously. Adjourned at 4:25 p.m. rtd:001304 C