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Agenda 03/15/1990 0 PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD AGENDA MARCH 15, 1990 The Parks and Recreation Advisory Board mooting will be held Thursday, March 15, 1990, 8:30 a.m. in the Parks and Recreation Administration Building, Conference Room, 3300 Santa Barbara Boulevard. I. Call to Order 1 II. Approval of Minutes III. Old Business A. Election of Officers 1110 B. Action List C. Beach Parking Permits D. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park building expansion E. Meetings at other sites I IV. New Business A. Tour of Facilities V. Adjournment 40 Ammer - ACTION LIST MARCH 15, 1990 1. Conklin Point Update 2. Tigertail Update 3. Beach Parking Permits 4. North Naples Community Park Baseball Field and Parking Lot 0 G0%.LF Ooarei e'630,in 6'ominufsio-ne,w COLLIER COUNTY COURTHOUSE COMPLEX ' 46 ous,i NAPLES. FLORIDA 33962-4977 ANNE GOODNIGHT RICHARD S. SHANAHAN MAX A. HASSE.JR. COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER BURT L. SAUNDERS MICHAEL J. VOLPE JAMES C.GIBES COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER. CLERK March 6, 1990 Mr. Kim Patrick Kobza 847 Reef Pointe Circle Naples, Florida 33963 Subject: Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Dear Mr. Kobza: While convened in regular session on March 6, 1990, the Board of County Commissioners voted to reappoint you to a 2-year term on the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board. Your new term will expire on December 31, 1991, or at such time as the Bcard reappoints you or 0 appoints your successor. On behalf of the Board of County Commissioners, I wish to extend our appreciation for your willingness to continue serving the residents of Collier County as a member of this advisory committee. If I can ever be of service to you during your term, please do not hesitate to contact me. Very truly yours, 4;:: Q ' ,,,7 Max A. Hasse, Jr. , Chairman) ,.I Commissioner, District 3 m 't, MAH:s f _.- .;, ;' '_" .,,,J cc: Cliff Crawford, Parks and Recreation Director ,-(-) = ( CJ = �•. tiVi C.,0 . *P 00ari o/Cozurt�y Comint;uloaers illCOLLIER COUNTY COURTHOUSE COMPLEX 0 CCeK, 4i' NAPLES. FLORIDA 33962-4977 ANNE GOODNIGHT RICHARD S.SHANAHAN MAX A. HASSE. JR. COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER BURT L. SAUNDERS MICHAEL J.VOLPE JAMES C.GILES COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER CLERK March 6, 1990 Mrs. Geneva Till 2164 42nd Street, S.W. Naples, Florida 33999 Subject: Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Dear Mrs. Till: While convened in regular session on March 6, 1990, the Board of County Commissioners voted to appoint you as a regular member on the above referenced advisory committee. Your appointment will expire on December 31, 1991, or at such time as the Board reappoints you or ( appoints your successor. As with any advisory group, the primary purpose is to assist and advise the Board of County Commissioners. By law, however, the ultimate decisions rest with the Commission. At times, the Commission's decisions may not reflect the recommendation of the advisory group because many facts must be taken into consideration. By copy of this letter, we are requesting Cliff Crawford, Parks and Recreation Director, to provide you with any additional information you will need as a member of this committee. On behalf of the Board of County Commissioners, I wish to extend our appreciation to you for your willingness to serve the residents of Collier County as a member of this advisory board. Very ly yours, CLIA sse, Jr. , Chairman Commissioner, District 3 MAH:sf 4:) cc: Cliff Crawford, Parks and Recreation Director GO�c-��l' 00-ard o 6ouri Co�nrnithofiers COLLIER COUNTY COURTHOUSE COMPLEX 0 C' E!tN QNAPLES. FLORIDA 33962-4977 ANNE GOODNIGHT RICHARD S.SHANAHAN MAX A. HASSE. JR. COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER BURT L. SAUNDERS MICHAEL J.VOLPE JAMES C. GILES COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER CLERK March 6, 1990 Mr. Steven R. Ball 575 W. Lake Drive Naples, Florida 33940 Subject: Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Dear Mr. Ball: While convened in regular session on March 6, 1990, the Board of County Commissioners voted to appoint you as a regular member on the above referenced advisory committee. Your appointment will expire on December 31, 1991, or at such time as the Board reappoints you or 0 appoints your successor. As with any advisory group, the primary purpose is to assist and advise the Board of County Commissioners. By law, however, the ultimate decisions rest with the Commission. At times, the Commission's decisions may not reflect the recommendation of the advisory group because many facts must be taken into consideration. By copy of this letter, we are requesting Cliff Crawford, Parks and Recreation Director, to provide you with any additional information you will need as a member of this committee. On behalf of the Board of County Commissioners, I wish to extend our appreciation to you for your willingness to serve the residents of Collier County as a member of this advisory board. Very truly yours, L%" a .5"La-e-e Max A. Hasse, Jr. , Chairman Commissioner, District 3 MAH: sf cc: Cliff Crawford, Parks and Recreation Director 0 CGS L t�• 06.- /`c63Ptl/?.t� 630imm;4<uo,'ze w iipCOLLIER COUNTY COURTHOUSE COMPLEX CI) t% — A' V,ti - NAPLES. FLORIDA 33962-4977 ANNE GOODNIGHT RICHARD S. SHANAHAN MAX A. HASSE. JR. COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER BURT L. SAUNDERS MICHAEL J. VOLPE JAMES C. GILES COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER CLERK March 6, 1990 Mr. Gerard Mclaughlin 118 Erie Drive Naples, Florida 33942 Subject: Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Dear Mr. Mclaughlin: While convened in regular session on March 6, 1990, the Board of County Commissioners considered the applications for positions on the subject advisory board. At that time, the Commission reappointed Kim Patrick Kobza to District 2 and appointed Steven R. ® Ball to District 4 and Geneva Till to District 3 . Although the Board did not appoint you to this advisory group, we wish to express our gratitude to you for permitting your name to be submitted for consideration. Your willingness to serve the residents of Collier County is appreciated. Very truly yours, l'ee--e/Z Max A. Hasse, Jr. , Chai an Commissioner, District 3 MAH:sf cc: Cliff Crawford; Parks and Recreation Director 0 AL1 G� -- 'A. 0o,arr.�e(oui Com�nissionets COLLIER COUNTY COURTHOUSE COMPLEX 0 NAPLES, FLORIDA 33962-4977 ANNE GOODNIGHT RICHARD S.SHANAHAN MAX A. HASSE. JR. COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER BURT L.SAUNDERS MICHAEL J. VOLPE JAMES C. GILES COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER CLERK March 6, 1990 Mr. Bobby Pittman 1966 Imperial Golf Boulevard Naples, Florida 33942 Subject: Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Dear Mr. Pittman: While convened in regular session on March 6, 1990, the Board of County Commissioners considered the applications for positions on the subject advisory board. At that time, the Commission reappointed Kim Patrick Kobza to District 2 and appointed Steven R. 0 Ball to District 4 and Geneva Till to District 3 . Although the Board did not appoint you to this advisory group, we wish to express our gratitude to you for permitting your name to be submitted for consideration. Your willingness to serve the residents of Collier County is appreciated. Very truly yours, a4e 0 >2)4L1-4(-- s Max A. Hasse, Jr. , Chairman Commissioner, District 3 MAH:sf cc: Cliff Crawford, Parks and Recreation Director ot.- ie G 1" Ooard o cayazy Coinnutho zers COLLIER COUNTY COURTHOUSE COMPLEX c.. NAPLES. FLORIDA 33962-4977 Ctfj$ ANNE GOODNIGHT RICHARD S. SHANAHAN MAX A. HASSE. JR. COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER BURT L. SAUNDERS MICHAEL J.VOLPE JAMES C. GILES COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER CLERK March 6, 1990 Ms. Anne Millan 1358 Derbyshire Court F-203 Naples, Florida 33999 Subject: Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Dear Ms. Millan: While convened in regular session on March 6, 1990, the Board of County Commissioners considered the applications for positions on the subject advisory board. At that time, the Commission reappointed Kim Patrick Kobza to District 2 and appointed Steven R. Ball to District 4 and Geneva Till to District 3 . 4:) Although the Board did not appoint you to this advisory group, we wish to express our gratitude to you for permitting your name to be submitted for consideration. Your willingness to serve the residents of Collier County is appreciated. Very truly yours, 4c Max A. Hasse, Jr. , Chairman ' Commissioner, District 3 MAH:sf cc: Cliff Crawford, Parks and Recreation Director C Guo 44,� Oomrnisito>zer COLLIER COUNTY COURTHOUSE COMPLEX NAPLES. FLORIDA 33962-4977 RICHARD S. SHANAHAN MAX A. HASSE.JR. ANNE GOODNIGHT COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER MICHAEL J.VOLPE JAMES C. GILES BURT L. SAUNDERS COMMISSIONER CLERK COMMISSIONER March 6, 1990 Mr. Joseph A. Funigiello 5423 1st Avenue, N.W. Naples, Florida 33999 Subject: Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Dear Mr. Funigiello: 4 While convened in regular session on March 6, 1990, the Board of County Commissioners considered the applications for positions on the subject advisory board. At that time, the Commission reappointed Kim Patrick Kobza to District 2 and appointed Steven R. Ball to District 4 and Geneva Till to District 3 . Although the Board did not appoint you to this advisory group, we wish to express our gratitude to you for permitting your name to be submitted for consideration. Your willingness to serve the residents of Collier County is appreciated. Very truly yours, rf;r1 Max A. Hasse, Jr. , Chairman Commissioner, District 3 MAH:sf cc: Cliff Crawford, Parks and Recreation Director 0 G -- + & and oe 60,uiz ' cornnu;sszoneri COLLIER COUNTY COURTHOUSE COMPLEX CN-•• A, NAPLES. FLORIDA 33962-4977 ANNE GOODNIGHT RICHARD S. SHANAHAN MAX A. HASSE. JR. COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER BURT L.SAUNDERS MICHAEL J.VOLPE JAMES C.GILES COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER CLERK March 6, 1990 Mr. Scott McQuillin 3333 Binnacle Drive Naples, Florida 33940 Subject: Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Dear Mr. McQuillin: While convened in regular session on March 6, 1990, the Board of County Commissioners appointed Mr. Steven R. Ball as your replacement to the subject advisory committee. 0 On behalf of the Board of County Commissioners, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for the fine work you have done as a member of the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board. Enclosed is a Certificate of Appreciation to represent our gratitude for your valuable assistance. Best wishes for success in your future endeavors. Very truly yours, ,gcl f lei0 „of 4°F Max A. Hasse, Jr. , Chairman Commissioner, District 3 MAH:sf Enclosure 'cp 70, cc: Cliff Crawford, Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Fri— 5G :. rn co °'"" ;,C. iii (-II l' 0 m C) �Y` muiNalir 4 0 . QEtrtittcatc of Zt GD U!.t4` +1►►, 'p :,j f C\ • -L 0UN' 0 rfje TOoarb of (Couutp tommiE45louer5 of Collier Countp, , •toriba fjerebp expret5e5 its Sincere appreciation to Mr. Scott McQuillin for bebicateb fierb ice a5 a member of Parks and Recreation Advisory Board front: January 26, 1986 to: March 6, 1990 *5Z . ' 0 ' airman, Woad of Olounjp i mmiasioners t ' 449 Oa-are/7 ,,iti? i o- 6�oun • 60omrnth.sthizers COLLIER COUNTY COURTHOUSE COMPLEX - CO . OtAWI NAPLES. FLORIDA 33962-4977 ANNE GOODNIGHT RICHARD S. SHANAHAN MAX A. HASSE.JR. COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER BURT L. SAUNDERS MICHAEL J.VOLPE JAMES C.GILES COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER CLERK March 6, 1990 Mr. Charles Stevens 224 Foxtail Court Naples, Florida 33942 Subject: Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Dear Mr. Stevens: While convened in regular session on March 6, 1990, the Board of County Commissioners regretfully accepted your resignation and appointed your replacement to the subject advisory committee. On behalf of the Board of County Commissioners, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for the fine work you have done as a member of the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board. Enclosed is a Certificate of Appreciation to represent our gratitude for your valuable assistance. Best wishes for success in your future endeavors. Very truly yours, L�,,,Z (00 . Max A. Hasse, Jr. , Chairman Commissioner, District 3 MAH:sf Enclosure -o cc: Cliff Crawford, Parks and Recreation Advisory Board WI 5171; ri,c a w -rn ,y .,L7 CY r"n.y C7 '.0 C 4 O C (Ccrttftcatt � ot-Li, G4,ur,G� 'p • a c% •:o.,.P 4 1 0 OUN`C 1fje Tgoarb of (Couutp (tCommi55ioner5 IA I Collier (ountp, jf toriba fjerebp expre55e5 its 5iucere appreciation to Mr. Charles Stevens for bebicateb Serb ice a5 a member of Parks and Recreation Advisory Board from: January 28, 1986 to: March 6, 1990 4114 4a, tt4j4a-C/ t 0 u!pitman, 'nerd (gaunt 1 (IIammtsainnrrB I „ .0 - , , 4 . r 1 ICI . RESOLUTION NO. 90- 713 A RESOLUTION APPOINTING STEVEN R. BALL AND GENEVA TILL AND REAPPOINTING KIM PATRICK KOBZA TO THE PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD WHEREAS, the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board was created on November 25, 1975 and the Advisory Board shall be composed of five (5) members, one from each commission district; and _ WHEREAS, the terms of three members expired on December 31, 1989; and WHEREAS, the Board of County Commissioners previously provided public notice soliciting applications from interested parties. i NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, that: 1. Steven R. Ball is hereby appointed to the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board as the representative of District 4 for a two year term, said term expiring on December 31, 1991. ID2. Geneva Till is hereby appointed to the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board as the representative of District 3 for a two year term, said term expiring on December 31, 1991. 3. Kim Patrick Kobza is hereby reappointed to the Parks and T Recreation Advisory Board as the representative of District 2 for a two year term, said term expiring on December 31, 1991. This Resolution adopted after motion, second and majority vote. DATED: March 6, 1990 ATTEST: BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS JAMES C. GILES, Clerk COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA } VI S" --Mr MA /`4iASSE, J . , Chair . ',App•oved as :tq orm and 'legal sufficSIncy: Kenneth B. Cuyl r*i ;..� County Attorne < —ril VD r;rrn CD •r C) O Ca Q 2 0- C EXPANDED MINUTES PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD 3300 SANTA BARBARA BOULEVARD GOLDEN GATE COMMUNITY PARK ADMINISTRATION BUILDING MARCH 15, 1990 PRESENT: Mr. Gil Mueller Mr. Kim Patrick Kobza, Acting Chairman Ms. Geneva Till (new member) Mr. Kevin O'Donnell, Public Service Administrator Mr. Cliff Crawford, Parks & Recreation Director ABSENT: Ms. Cherrlye Thomas Mr. Steven R. Ball (new member) ALSO PRESENT: Mr. Harry Huber Mr. Ron Pergl Mr. Glen Bridges Ms. Mary Ellen Donner I. The meeting was called to order at 8:43 a.m. M a,e\�� II. Approval of 02/22/90 Minutes. Motionedxseconded,bpasscd unanimously. III. Old Business A. Election of Officers--because of the two absences, will be skipped at least until Steven R. Ball has an opportunity to be at a meeting. B. Conklin Point Update--Kevin O'Donnell: As of Tuesday, March 13, 1990, the County received a certificate of title. Currently that property is 6.8 acres. The Board of County Commissioners, was pretty enthusiastic of having us look at the possibility of four lanes up there. The reason being, that by 1994, we are looking at another two lanes of boat ramps in the northern part of the County. 401) Again, we've got it based on geographic area, and we do not own an Page #2 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting B. Conklin Point Update (continued)--other property there, because we're looking at disposing Bluebill once we go ahead with the Conklin site, and 6.8 acres would obviously give us that flexibility. All indications are, again, there is a potential possibility as the attorneys say that the deal could get scuttled and hung up legally. But the longer that the situation goes on, 1 the better it is looking for us, and the more secure we feel. 1 Parks Maintenance Crews will be out there next week cleaning up some of the debris, we have already made arrangements with the owner of the modular building. The building has been removed. They are going to do some clearing. We are going to barricade the area, and the Rangers will be out there on patrol, trying to keep people out of there, securing it. We are have some signs made up "No Trespassing". Kim Kobza: At the Vanderbilt Beach Property Owners Association Meeting on Tuesday night, March 13, 1990, there was some interesting discussion brought up that I want to pass 4 along, and I don't know how feasible or unfeasible it is. Basically the idea was: Because of the parking problem down at the State park, and it's a fairly dramatic problem down there virtually every weekend, with no parking, and they're ticketing on both sides of Bluebill going down to the park, and also along Gulfshore Blvd. 1 dink Page #3 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting B. Conklin Point Update (continued)--One of the members of the association suggested that perhaps as the Conklin site is developed out, some arrangement could be made for a shuttle like service, so if there is excess parking capacity it might be utilized for the State park. I didn't know how feasible or unfeasible that was, given the property that's there. I don't know how many parking spots we'll end up with, and what the utilization they'll have, but even 20 or 50 spot will be very helpful. Cliff Crawford: My general feeling is that as the North Conklin Point property is developed, if the use of our other launch facilities is any 401) indication, there is not going to be a lot of space other than the users of the launch, and the park areas up there, because it is just not going to be a straight launch facility. We are going to have a passive park area in there, and have opportunities for fishing, and other non boating related activities. So, I believe that is going to be a fairly heavily used facility, and to dedicate spaces for another purpose may conflict the primary use of that facility. Kim Robza: Will we have an opportunity to see a land plan? Cliff Crawford: Yes you will. It will come back here before it goes to the board. That same discussion also took place by that same group, about Bluebill, and retaining that property on Page #4 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting B. Conklin Point Update (continued)--Bluebill, and simply making it an overflow parking facility for a passive park area for the State Park some months ago. We can't do it anyway, because we need the equity to help purchase the new site. Kim Kobza: Is there any other discussion on Conklin Point? Gil Mueller: I had gone out there, and counted those boat ramps, Kevin, and I was amazed at the number of usable not deteriorated but usable boat ramps. It is a considerable savings! They weren't in bad shape! Kevin O'Donnell: The pilings are in good shape, the dock itself, the sea wall is in really good shape! Gil Mueller: I was really impressed! Cliff Crawford: Yea! Nice piece of property! Kevin O'Donnell: I think it's going to work out real well for us! Gil Mueller: I only, like somebody else, know what I read in the newspapers. Are the newspapers accounts basically accurate? Are there inaccuracies in there? Kevin O'Donnell: His numbers are way off! Cliff Crawford: Way off! Way, way, off! Kevin O'Donnell: We've been working real closely with the Attorneys Office on this, and with Real Property Department on it. We are disclosing the information pursuant to their directions, particularly the Attorney's Office because of the bankruptcy proposal. That's just not true at all. We feel that we got a real good deal on the purchase of the property. All C Page #5 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting B. Conklin Point Update (continued)--indications are still that we won't lose on the deal. I can't give an absolute, categorical guarantee, but everything's looking incredibly good. We're optimistic, it's moving along, and we're real pleased with it. Kim Kobza: Is there any further discussion on Conklin Point? Geneva Till: I wasn't sure where Conklin Point is, but I see by that paper, now I do. Kim Kobza: The next Action List item is Tigertail. C. Tigertail Update--Cliff Crawford: I would like to turn that over to Mr. Harry Huber, who brought you up to date last month. Harry Huber: We finally got a surveying permit proposal, and the requisition for the purchase order is being typed up right now, not to exceed a price of $6,000.00 for performance of surveying work and drafting of the plan. Figure on three weeks for them to perform their services. Kim Kobza: Is there any discussion or any questions? Gil Mueller: Has there been any other progress been made, Harry, other than developing the surveying permit? Has any progress been made as far as considering what exactly is going to be done out there? Harry Huber: I don't think so. That's what edges all of the surveying work, and the preparation of the plan. Page #6 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting B. Tigertail Update (continued)-That's when we see all of the existing conditions out there. Then a decision will have to be made as to exactly what we are going to do, or what you are going to request from D & R. Gil Mueller: You've given us a time situation last month. Can you update that as far as when you think that this thing will be developed to the point when it can be presented to the D&R? Harry Huber: Well, all I can tell you at this point, is that it is going to take three weeks to complete the survey information that has to be obtained prior to the plan, so we can make a decision. From that point on it is pretty much out of my hands. I will present that plan then to Cliff and Kevin, and then it will be scheduled for your review, and then it is my understanding that it will go to the Board of County Commissioners for final approval. You'll have that plan then, in 3-4 weeks. Cliff Crawford: The other thing that Mr. Huber and I talked about is that if it doesn't fall right in terms of the time as we see the information being developed, we do have the opportunity to get you all together so we continue to move forward on that at your alls convenience. This may be one of those items that we may want to do that if the timing is such that you know we may be able to pick up a week or two hereby if it's done sooner. So we're keeping that Page #7 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting B. Tigertail Update (continued)--option open. The other thing, while it obviously hasn't been finalized, we shared with you last month, is what we are looking at after the final surveying is done, as a general guide, that 1984 Service Standard. But that can't be finalized until that survey work and those other things are done. That is the general approach that we're taking to Tigertail. Kim Robza: Has the scope remained the same? Cliff Crawford: All the rest of the permiting application process, and everything with the exception pretty much of the detail portion of the project has just about been completed. So this is a critical element obviously in Ar terms of that applicaiton process. So, when that's finalized with the survey work, and we finalize after that between Public Services, Parks and Recreation, and Harry's office, then we can finish in that process and have a complete packet. So, we've got to get this survey done. It is just park of that step process that we've got to do. Gil Mueller: May I ask one or two questions concerning Tigertail Beach? Cliff Crawford: Sure! Gil Mueller: I was just curious as to whether there were any limitations or restrictions as far as the quantity and type of equipment that the concessionaires are allowed to introduce to that area or any other areas? Cliff Crawford: There is a contract with both the food Asimaup Page #8 41) Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting C. Tigertail Update (continued)--services and the providers of recreation equipment there, and it provides general guidelines as to what minimumly needs to be provided for public opportunity for use. Any changes or additions to that, must be approved by the Public Service Administrator with respect to equipment, with respect to rates, with just about any contract change. Gil Mueller: I wonder if you could become concerned, and on my part to, as to the type of equipment (manual driven, power driven) , that seems to be continuously introduced at Tigertail Beach. It's gotten so now, that I'm at the point where I wouldn't be surprized to see little submarines out there one day. The beach is full of all these grotesque types of equipment, and very little place for the people to lay, and I'm just concerned about that. Kevin O'Donnell: Let me tell you the basic philosophy that we've used on making exceptions, or allowing the introduction of new things down there. We are pretty much allowed it to be market driven. We obviously encourage the concessionaire to experiment. The particular clientel down there is asking for a particular piece of equipment, or more people rent certain things, he is obviously going to put more of that in stock. We do a general comparrison, to see what other places are renting the equipment for. So we kind Page #9 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting C. Tigertail Update (continued)--of exercise more of a veto power than we do on proposing anything. He sits back, and says that he wants to have such and such equipment at such and such an hour, he gives us a brief description on what it is, and we do a comparrison relative to what the rate is. Then if it is pretty much in line with what some of our own concessionaires are doing, and what we feel to be a reasonable approach, we say "Fine! Go ahead!" if at some point he says ok, the people don't want anymore, he drops it. We also give him that descreation. We try to give him a little bit of flexibility, based on what the public wants out there. We try to keep it within reason based upon whether the equipment is safe, and secondly on the price. Beyond that, if he wants to be innovative, come up with new suggestions, and stuff we really kind of encourage him to do so. So that's why at various times you may see various proliferations of things down there. Gil Mueller: I was just getting a little concerned, and there was some comment also that some of this equipment is pretty grotesque. I asked him, 4 "How does that work?". He said, "Oh! That works such, and such. But wait till you see our electric sleds next week!" Oh, boy! What next? Not only that, but it seems as though a large portion of that beach is being occupied by this equipment, and there's a • Page #10 ILExpanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting C. Tigertail Update (continued)--lot of it! Kevin O'Donnell: We can take a look at it! Gil Dueller: I'm just passing it on to you. Cliff Crawford: I appreciate that, we'll take a look at it for you. Kim Kobza: What exactly is grotesque? Cliff Crawford: What I think Mr. Mueller's approach might be, is that beaches are traditionally more people orientated, than equipment orientated. Then as you add support equipment for public use, like the Vanderbilt Inns do, with sailing boats and all that, it has an impact visually. Kim Kobza: I understant that. But, what I meant was, what type of equipment is out there that, you know. Gil 401) Mueller: Well they have those things with the huge rubber wheels, jet skis, paddle things, sail craft, to name a few. Then there is some new devise that was zipping around there. I can't describe it! Then he scared me with this electric sled, I had no idea what he was reffering to. Geneva Till: I think that we should be careful about that, because of what happened in Fort Myers Beach. We surely don't want that to happen on Marco Beach. Kevin O'Donnell: Well we've got the ability to regulate that also to the Beach & Water Safety Ordinance which is a pretty strong ordinance. So I think that we've got a mechanism in place to get a handle on I Page #11 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting C. Tigertail Update (continued)--that. Gil Mueller: These are nice people. The young men that are running those concessions are just as polite and cooperative as they can possibly be, by the way. Kevin O'Donnell: We can take a look at that, no problem. Rim Kobza: Is there any other discussion on Tiger Tail? If not, we'll move on to Action Item number three which was the Beach Parking Permit. D. Beach Parking Permits--Kevin O'Donnell: If you recall from the last meeting, I guess back to our full scale discussion relative to 41) the pros and cons to fees and charges. Your last recommendation in October, was for status quoe of the $1.00 charge, and on to the City Beach Parking Permit. As, we know we can not have a city beach parking permit, because of some problems the county has associating with some grant applicaitons. Including what we used to build the facilities at Tigertail, and with some beach renourishment funds. So the Attorneys Office is discouraging us from proceeding on that. Predicated on that, you said that you wanted to get back into the old discussion on beach fees. Currently, just to refresh your memory, we are charging $1.00 at Tigertail, $1.00 at Vanderbilt, and $1.00 at Clam Pass. Those are w Page # 12 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting D. Beach Parking Permits (continued)--our tendered lots. We lose approximately $19,000.00 on that operation when you take in the Attendants time, Bob Legler's time, and the direct revenues that we derive from the $1.00 per vehicle. Those are the costs that we have built into it. There's some operating expenses that we've got. Obviously there's airconditioning, and a phone charge that are associated at the particular guard houses where the guys are working. So, right now it's around $19,000 in the hole. If we double the charge, we would definitely wipe out the deficite to $2.00, if we go any lower than that, all we are going to do is increase, and I would have a real problem with wanting to see us decrease or increase a subsidy that we are already doing. Then we are getting into that fundimental discussion of do we or do we not charge? So, the board. . . I'm going to kick it back to you guys. You guys thought that you had come up with a resolution based upon the legal problems that we've got I guess it is punted back to you lap. Now we've got a couple of new board members. The staff is punting the potatoe back to you guys. Kim Robza: One thought that I have on that. Maybe we can have some general discussion on that today Ms. Till. But, it is an issue of such importance, that maybe we ought to have our other board members here to really take any Page # 13 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting D. Beach Parking Permints (continued)--action or make any type of reccommendation. One that actually goes up to the County Board, you know, with three votes would not be as effective as one that goes up with five votes. Gil Mueller: Right! I don't know, what I really think that we should do is determine whether these people are really going to be here or not. If they're not, then do something about it. Rearrange. Quite frankly, this is getting to be ridiculous. Cliff Crawford: Well, if you call, and they indicate that they are going to be there, I guess that's about as good as you can do. Besides sending out the formal notices, Mr. Mueller, honestly, we generally call two to three days, particularly those members who may have competing interests or may be consistent at other Board Members. Generally, that's about as best as we can do at this point. Geneva Till: It would help me if I had known Parlier. Like a week. I just got it the day before yesterday. Kevin O'Donnell: That may be given to tha fact, that we've got a new member, but, I think Gil's point in relative to the other members, and you may just want to put it on the Agenda. We've sent out the stuff, everyone knows when it is, and you guys have changed times a couple of times. You'll have to reaccomodate yourself. Cliff Crawford: Ms. Till, the board always moots the C Page # 14 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting D Beach Parking Permints (continued)--third Thursday at 8:30 in the morning. Gil Mueller: I'm not implying to that the staff has not kept us informed as to when these meetings are, all that I'm saying is that if they're not going to be here on a consistent basis which seems to be the case in some instances. Then they should be replaced. Kevin O'Donnell: Now that's and action that you can take. Your own guidelines and commission ordinances specify that if you miss a number of meetings, that can be called by the particular board's attention to the commission and you can ask that the seat be declared vacant, and then you can fill it. So I mean 4111) that's ultimately your perogative. Obviously that's the most drastic action that you as an advisory board can take relative to that. If you want to put it on the agenda for next month, just discussion of time, meeting place, and etc. Then you've got some new members, maybe the third Thursday is going to create some conflict. We get as frustrated as you guys, because for you guys to Table stuff that we want to present and move on with, takes the frustration our end. Yea! We want all five of you here to. Cliff Crawford: It's important for us too, because we are also dealing with other staff, consultants from other businesses. I agree, it is just a good use of our time. Kim Kobza: Let's have some order! Page # 15 400) Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting D Beach Parking Permints (continued)--Gil Dueller: Maybe we could have sort of an unwritten agreement, that if they are not going to be here, call ten days or two weeks in advance. Report in! That sounds over simplified. I have to say that I'm gettin a little inpatient. There is only three of us showing up, we can't accomplish anything, and we're wasting our time. Kim Kobza: Can I interject something here? You know, I think it'd be improper to over dramatize this today, because we did have very good attendance with the four of us. With Charlie Stevens, with Scott McQuillen, and we've always had at least four people here. Gil Mueller: It's come apart in the last four months. Kim Kobza: For today's purpose, I know that Ms. Till received somewhat late notice, and I know that Steve Ball had a commitment that he otherwise could help. This come back to a point that we've already discussed once before, especially with a gentleman with Steve on the board, he's going to have a planning commission conflict. Is it the first and third Thursday? Kevin O'Donnell: Yes, sir! Kim Kobza: First and third Thursday of the month, in the morning. Same time! Also, part of my point was that with the newspapers. The newspaper often doesn't cover our meetings, because they are often at the planning commission. It might be helpful for us to reconsider another date Ammommorimmer Page # 16 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting D Beach Parking Permints (continued)--and time. I was thinking about this another time. Ms. Till we will obvioulsy have to have some input here. But, the fourth Wednesday of the monthe doesn't present any conflict in terms of City Council, or county, that I am aware of. Gil Dueller: Are you aware of any conflict there Keying. Kevin O'Donnell: The county has got about at least 30 different Advisory Boards and Commissions. Gil Mueller: Is there a central person who knows when all these mooting takes place? Kevin O'Donnell: Yes! Probably Sue Filson. Kim Robza: Well, the major boards at least ficin my perspective, and again with a 411) gentleman like Steve Ball who is heavily active in the planning community, the biggest potential conflict, is the County Board Meetings, or the Planning Commission. Geneva Till: I'm on the planning committee for Golden Gate, and we meet on the fourth Wednesday at 4:00 p.m. We have quite a few people, and they are always there. This is good for me I knew, but we meet in the afternoon. . . .they get off by 4:00. Gil Mueller: Would this require a change in the Bylaws Kevin? To change the date of the meeting? Kevin O'Donnell: There's language in regards to that. I don't have the Bylaws with me, and I don't recall that off the top of my head. Gil Dueller: I think it specifically states those Page # 17 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting D. Beach Parking Permints (continued)--days. Keying O'Donnell: But, I think you might have specified a date. All that would require you to do then, is to amend that section of the Bylaws which is real Past'. Gil Mueller: Maybe that is something we should discuss. . . Kim Kobza: Maybe what we should do, when we do have Mr. Ball here, is sit down and discuss this. What would work best for you. . . Geneva Till: That 4:00, I wish we'd moot as a group, I don't care what Wednesday. But if we meet in the afternoon, there would be no conflict at all. Gil Mueller: Afternoon or evening? Geneva Till: Afternoon. Gil Mueller: I could adjust Aft to it. Kim Kobza: Does staff have any predisposition on an afternoon mooting at all, as opposed to a morning mooting? Cliff Crawford: No sir! Kim Kobza: You know, a morning meeting doPc work a little better for me. Cliff Crawford: Whatever the Board chooses, we'll be there to support it. Gil Mueller: Can we wait with that also, until we have the other two folks? Kim Kobza: Yea, I think that will probably be good. Kevin O'Donnell: We can put it on next month. We can also send the new members copies of the Bylaws too, which will specify. You can get into a discussion of you officers too, and that will give you another 30 days to think about it. Gil Mueller: Because as it's standing now, it's • Page # 18 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting D. Beach Parking Permints (continued)--not fair to the staff, we're not acomplishing as much as we should, it's not fair to these ladies and gentleman here, it's not fair to the Board members to just be operating on three cylinders. Kim Kobza: Can we agree to Table the issue on Beach Parking Permits until the nest meeting? Kevin O'Donnell: Yea, you've got that, and then you wanted to take up a meeting date and time among yourselves at the next meeting too. Want to get into a discussion as to wether you are going to meet the third Thursday of the month. Kim Kobza: Can we have an agreement on that Beach Parking. . . Gil Mueller: OK I'll make a motion to Table that item on Beach Parking Permits. Kim Kobza: We have a motion, it's been seconded, so, do we have a vote? ) Unanimously passed. Kevin O'Donnell: OK. The next item is. . . Gil Muller: If I could elaborate on that further. I still kind of think that maybe we can, I'm repeating myself, maybe we can have some sort of and unwritten agreement amongst ourselves, if you've not going to be here, call two weeks in advance and then perhaps at staff meetings suggest, as they did on earlier occasions, that they change we date. Can that be possible. Kevin O'Donnell: Sure! They can call us up to. . . We've got people here even beyond 5:00 p.m. , I mean, it's not difficult to get in touch with staff at this ) Page # 19 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting D. Beach Parking Permints (continued)--department. I think, we would all be ecstatic if we knew that you guys weren't coming. Even if we knew 24 hours in advance! Most of the time, we don't know until 8:30 a.m. when we see which people are walking in. Again, and think staff's correct on this, if we don't here from you, we sent the stuff out, we're going to anticipate that you guys got it in your calendars, you know to be here on the third Thursday, and will be here at 8:30 a.m. It's a given. Gil Mueller: And it's wasting your time. Kevin O'Donnell: Yeah! So, we'd love that you call at any time. We'd want to know. Kim Kobza: Let's move on. The only thing that I would say about that, is when you start changing times around, my schedule is cazy. Unless it was, not having a quorum. Kevin O'Donnell: We're not enthusiastic about it either! Because it is working out well for us. I mean, we've got everything geared towards this now, and I'm not in favor of making changes. Kim Kobza: I'd like to wait and see what happens, when we get a full ship here, and see if we can't improve things. Kevin O'Donnell: OK! Kim Kobza: OK! Going on to the fourth item, the North Naples Community Park Baseball Field and Parking Lot. i Page # 20 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting E. North Naples Community Park Baseball Field and Parking Lot--Kim Kobza: Do we have someone here to bring up to date? Cliff Crawford: Yes! Mr. Glen Bridges, would you like to do that? Glen Bridges: Thanks! As far as the parking lot goes, Apac is the contractor, we have a substancial completion inspection scheduled this afternoon at 3:30. We will inspect the parking lot and all. Draw up the punch list, and then we will begin marking all of the items that need to be corrected. There contract date was March 23rd. for substantial completion, I believe. So, they're right on schedule, or a little bit ahead of schedule on that. The Ball Field construction is continuing, they are now working on installation of the underground irrigation lines for the Ball Field. The Dug Outs should be started within the next few days. That's next on schedule. That project is pretty much on schedule, and to be completed in late June, 1990. Kim Kobza: We had a tremendous, very fine, Welcome Ceremony out here on the Golden Gate Ballfield. I'm sure, a couple of the Commissioners would probabley like to see pretty much the same type of Ceremony up there, I think it would be pretty good community support. I think that would be great! Cliff Crawford: We will. We're planning something very soon Mr. Kobza. Kim Kobza: I've had a lot of good comment in the C Page # 21 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting E. North Naples Community Park Baseball Field and Parking Lot--North Naples area. I had several people come up at the Vanderbilt meeting up there, and had several people from Palm River as well. Specifically mentioned, that it really looks good, and they are excited about it. Glen Bridges: The parking area should soon stop looking like a construction area, and start looking like a finished product. Kim Kobza: That'll be good when we get into our Summer Programs too, to have that kind of outlaid. Gil Mueller: How many parking spaces did you say were going there? Or maybe you didn't. Gil Mueller: I didn't. Cliff Crawford: Slightly over a hundred, 104 or something like that. Gill Mueller: Is there possiblities of enlarging that? Does it have that expansion. . . Glen Bridges: That area will not be enlarged. Another area in the park is planned for future parking, associated with the Community Center. Kim Kobza: Do we have any other questions or discussion at all? Ms. Till do you have any questions on that? Geneva Till: No, it sounds good to me! Kim Kobza: Ok! Let's move on! OK! We've completed the Action List, Beach Parking Permits we agreed to Table. Cliff Crawford: That's correct! Kevin O'Donnell: April meeting! Kim Kobza: The next Agenda Item is the Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion. Page #22 Expanded Minuets 03/15/90 F. Frank E. Mackle Jr. Park Building Expansion--Cliff Crawford: Yes, we have with us again today, Mr. Ron Pergl. And Ron, would you like to update the board. We're certainly available for any questions. You received your analysis and report last month, and want to know if there's any questions regarding the project? Gil Mueller: Had you given any consideration to the possibility to a sliding, sort of collapsible partition that could be added, I guess at any given junction? Something similar to the one that they have in the small meeting room, so that the room could be used for two meetings, or one large meeting, whatever the case might be. Ron 401) Pergl: That can always be achieved, but I think the problems with that are quite obvious, and we are experiencing them righ here now. Where it's very difficult to get some good sound insulating qualities out of a wall such as this. Nothing like a permanent partition at any rate. That's always a possibility to be brought under project later. Gil Mueller: That way we'd be adding another meeting room. Ron Pergl: Essentially, yes! You could have two meetings perhaps at the same time, but sometimes it's difficult. Gil Mueller: I realize it's probably hard for you to give us a ball park figure at this point, but roughly, what do you think something like that would run? Or would you prefer not to even Page #23 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackle Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--interject that. Ron Pergl: I can't even begin to guess. Depending on what type of partition we are talking about, when it's installed, it would cost different sums. Gil Mueller: What do you think of the idea. Ron Pergl: I think it's always good to have that flexibility, whether it's economically feasible to do that. On the other hand, you do have the other smaller meeting rooms, which can be, as you know, the partitions can be folded out there and you can have a larger area. Which would be close to half of a larger meeting room. So it may be possible to schedule it. Gil Mueller: As far as what I know about that, Cliff would know more about this than I do, but they've pretty much got a full house down there. I know that some groups have been turned away, because there wasn't sufficient space, or there wasn't room. Kim Kobza: Aren't there other types of dividing walls that have better insullation? For instance than what we have here? Ron Pergyl: This one isn't too bad. From what I understand of sound transmission qualities, this one is better than the average. It's certainly not the best, but there are other things that can be done to help the situation. Kim Kobza: When you go to the Registry, or the major hotels, they often divide those rooms for meeting purposes. You'll here some Page #24 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--muted sound back and forth, but it's not intursive. Ron Pergl: That goes on to areas beyond this partition. Those floors are carpeted, and that helps absorb a lot of sound, and I don't know what in fact you have above the ceiling here. What we do above the ceiling can also effect the sound. Rim Kobza: So, there are other things that we could potentially do, that would enable that concept to work. Is that tiled out there? Ron Pergl: Yes. It's basically the same. Gil Mueller: Cement block, the same acoustic built. Very similar. This looks to me like pretty good quality here. Ron 110 Pergl: Then again, it's not the best, but far from the worst. Gil Mueller: On page 4, I noticed that you talked about, ". . .remove the existing roofing, a cost of $1500.00". I'm not sure I understand that. Ron Pergl: That would be to remove the area of existing roofing, and the elements of the roof that would need to be taken off in order to continue the roof line on from that point. So, in other words, the proposed expansion off the east side of the building. The roof from that area would have to be removed in order to add on new structural elements, new trusses, and so on. Gil Mueller: I see. Ron Pergl: That also accounts in there. . . When you are doing work like that, you are not only dealing with Page #25 ILExpanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--the actual physical men doing the job, but there is also cost involved with containing that, and hauling it away. Because it's a central distraction. That becomes a fairly large number, when you are dealing with some. . . Gil Mueller: The big problem down there, is getting things hauled away. That's very true. I had some question too, about the sprinkling system. I noticed were talking about $3000.00 for a sprinkling system, and I'n not clear as to why it would be necessary. Ron Pergl: According to Building Codes, and the Life Safety Code, which is enforced through the Fire Department Qand the Fire Control. They have certain requirements for different types of buildings. In this particular case, this is considered an essential one, because people congregate there. Once you have a certain numbers of people concregating there, there's different classifications the buildings fall into. By adding additional square footage to the building, we fall into the next larger classification which is more restricted as far as requirements on the building. That is why we are getting into that area. When the building was initially constructed, I believe, they knew that it would primarily not be used for these types of assemblies, and therefore, they were a little bit more lenient in their review of 0 Page #26 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackle Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--that. But, I think over time, the use of the building has become much more defined, and I don't think that option is going to be available to us any longer. The Fire Department knows what's going on out there. Gil Mueller: I see! It's a matter of finding exactly the use of the structure. There's alot of gray area there. Ron Pergl: It can be. Right! That's why it was able to be done originally. Because of some of those gray areas. Now those gray areas no longer exist, because, we know exactly how the building is going to be used, and we know exactly what classification it does fall into. Gil Mueller: I was concerned about this, because I have talked to a Fire Marshal on Marco Island, and he had assured me twice, as a matter of fact, that we were not entering into another category space wise, or terminology wise, and that the automatic fire extinguishing system not be necessary. So, I don't know, he's a Fire Marshall down there, and if he's wrong, why something's terribly wrong. Also, I had spoken to somebody in the County who had given me basically the same information. Now I realize that this is a separate taxing district. Perhaps their not even under County Jurisdiction, I don't know that, but I presume that. So, I am really confused about that. I'm glad you mentioned ormilmmomm Page #27 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackle Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--the Life Safety Code, and I'm sure it's printed somewhere. Ron Pergl: We often encounter things like that, so, it's not unusual. Gil Mueller: Because we are talking about $33,000.00, which is a heck of a big piece of $100,000.00. That takes a big hunk of it away. Anybody that can help to clear that up for me, I'd really appreciate it. Kim Kobza: How firm are you in your opinion or belief that that is a regulatroy requirement. Ron Pergl: Very sure, because, I've even specified the particular section in verse of code that requires that in there. If you would like, the Fire plans reviewer for the County. . . I could have him review those and give us an opinion regarding that also. Because he essentially does those types of reviews. His name would be Bob Salvaggio, and he would know. Rim Robza: Gil, would that satisfy? Gil Mueller: I would really like to see that! Rim Kobza: I think that's critical too because, you know if it really make a difference in the total square footage that we get out of that facility. If we take that $33,000.00 and divide it by $76.00 a square foot, we could add maybe another three or four hundred feet. Ron Pergl: It certainly would be better to have it there, than retrofitting the current structure. Kim Kobza: Gil, did you have any other 0 Page #28 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackle Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--questions? Gil Mueller: Yes. I just had one or two more. It's privid that your fee would be in the area of $7500.00. Does this include architectual supervision of the construction? Ron Pergl: I don't recall specifically, but I don't believe it does. Gil Mueller: It probably isn't even necessary. Ron Pergl: We've always considered it to be a wise investment. Gil Mueller: Well this is just basically a very simple type of construction, and of course we've got County inspectors, and presuming that you have a reliable contractor, it wouldn't seem that this is the <?> cost. Ron Pergl: Alright. But, in any case, I think that we ought to cement it for the protection of the client, because there are often times that mistakes that are made. Whether they be minor or major. Gil Mueller: It's my feeling at least, that based on doing some research, that your figure of $76.00 a square foot is a little high. Do you think that mihgt be possible? Ron Pergl: I did try to make that a little bit high due to what I felt what the building per say would cost in order to compensate for areas that have to be gone back over an repaired. For instance, some of the flooring for example: The nasty existing flooring out there may be impossible, you might find a situation where you've got to take out some of the 0 AMMONOM. AMMO= Page #29 ON Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--existing flooring and replace it. Gil Mueller: The tile matching the tile? Ron Fergie: The tile matching the tile, the wall matching the wall, the ceiling matching the ceiling. Even the roof shingles matching the roof shingles. Gil Mueller: Right! I'm familiar 1 with that! Ron Pergle: That's always something that's a gray area, that we always encounter in any type of retrofit operations. I purposly did round that off a little high, based on the cost of construction, when the building was originally built, and we did consider our replacement factor since then. It's a rather low estimate based on that. Gil Dueller: The $76.00 is a low estimate! Really! Ron Pergl: From what our records show, the building originally cost roughly $58.00 a square foot. It was a bid about four years ago. So, that'll account for about five or six percent increase per year, which is a little bit on the low side. Gil Mueller: Well I have, sort of anonymously looked into some of the similar types of constructions throughout the county, and made some phone calls, without obviously identifying myself, and found that the costs were ranging apporximately from $65 to $70 a square foot for that type of construction. That's why I was concerned. The object obviously is that if we're able to get a 0 Page #30 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--cost of $70 a square foot, we then put in a larger area. Because, as it exists now 16 feet is pretty minimal. (Side 1-B of the Tape starts here) Ron Pergyl: . . . built less expensively than. . . Gil Mueller: Which means more square footage. Yes! Kim Kobza: You know, I was doing a little calculation there, and if you had, if we're even, we'd save, let's say $10.00 a square foot. At, 717 feet, that would be $7,000.00. Divide 66 back into that $7,000.00 and how many square feet would that be? Ron Pergyl: That's about approximately 100, 107. Kim Kobza: So, you'd pick up 107 square feet for $10.00 per square foot savings. I think the sprinkler issue is probably a more critical issue. Ron Pergyl: Yes, I can investigate that with Mr. Salvaggio, and affirm that if you'd like. Gil Mueller: I'd appreciate it. Kim Kobza: This might be a good time to bring you up to date on a little background of this discussion. Gil Mueller: She has the Feasibility Study, Kim. Kim Kobza: Right. Each community Park Center has 100,000 dollars of discreationairy funding, which was to be used in concept for, well it's for the most immediate needs in that park facility outside of the normal capital expenditure, and the normal budget items. So, for instance, in North Naples, we used a portion of the $100,000.00 Page #31 QExpanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--funds for Tennis Courts. In Golden Gate, . . . Kevin O'Donnell: Golden Gate was Shuffleboard Courts, and part of it was applied towards the Baseball Field. So we've exhausted those monies in Golden Gate. Kim Kobza: So, Mr. Mueller came back, and his $100,000.00 for Marco, the Most immediate function was whether the expansion of the meeting room space would be the most appropriate use of the $100,000.00. So, that's what this topic is about. And than we've had the Architects come in, and provide us with this feasibility study to let us know how much would a $100,000.00 buy, in terms of Qactual additional meeting space. Gil Mueller: I'll make it my business to go and visit these places. Kim Kobza: Sure! Is there any additional discussion on this issue? Is there any recommended action that we take, are we resolved? Would you like to make any formal recommendation that we have the Architects here, come back and give us an answer to the sprinkler question? Gil Mueller: Well, that's certainly something that I would at least like to know, Bob. Perhaps, I guess there's no alternative. We have to put it on the Adenda for the next mooting. I'd like to move it along a little faster, but, I guess there is no way of doing it. Let's put it on the Agenda of the next meeting. What do you think Page #32 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--Kevin? Ravin O'Donnell: The questions you are asking are perfectly legitimate, my staff is not in a position to defend the comments that Ron has made repeatedly to me. I remember when we first got into the building design of the Community Center on Frank E. Mackie, Fire Code requirements were a major concern, and we made the building as large as we could, and still kept within the code requirements, and not to sprinkle due to cost requirements. So, therefore, it does not surprise me that if you are looking at any kind of expansion at all, we would be kicked into the higher classification, which is what Ron is saying. I don't have any problem with him going back to Salvaggio and getting that produced in writing, and specifically showing you Code 742 of of such and such a code requires you to do that. I think that's legit! I don't have any problem with you wanting to take that kind of action. It doesn't bother us at all. Gil Mueller: OK! Kevin, perhaps you or Mr. Kirby could clarify something for me. I'm at a loss as to know what the chain of command here is, the chain of authority as far as fire code are concerned. I was always under the impression that the state was the supreme word on this, but I found out that, that's not true. Boiling it down into the County, Page #33 A" Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--you have five fire districts, two of which are under the jurisdiction. . . Now stop me when I start getting off, and need corrected. Two of which are in the near jurisdiction of the county, the other three are individual taxing districts that have their own, so called, bailiwick. Am I right so far? Kevin O'Donnell: Yes! You're batting 100%! Gil Mueller: So, wouldn't that situation on Marco Island be under the jurisdiction of the Marco Island Fire Taxing District. Kevin O'Donnell: Potentially, Yes! I am not sure. Cliff Crawford: Well! Let mey try to help a little bit! Because I went through a similar experience in retrofitting a building in Winterhaven, FL. Everybody works off of the State Fire Codes. There can be local building, and/or Fire Codes that may have higher requirements locally than does even the state. So, if there's a choice between the local codes and the state codes, generally Fire Districts or Fire Departments will enforce those that are more stringent. That's just generally their approach. All of these taxing districts all are working from the State Fire Codes. Gil Mueller: The state writes the Fire Codes? Cliff Crawford: The State writes the Fire Codes, and in addition to the Fire Codes, there's Building Codes, there's about 20 to 30 different Code Page #34 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)—books, that I've even seen that, depending upon their particular application, they get into details of engineering, electrical, etc. Because of what Fire Code Districts, and/or Departments will use in terms of enforcement. But, minimumally they've got to meet their local code requirements, plus any regulatory information that may be coming out of the state. Often times, even out of the State, they're one of the few areas in terms of particularly the Life Safety Code that can actually initiate a new legislation that may be a higher standard, and require construction for example, to have to retrofit to that new code. A building can't do that, an Building Official can't do that, but in a Life Safety Fire Code, if it's a Life Safety Issue, they do have that authority. So, often times, when you get into a remodeling effort, or rehabilitation effort, the approach may be by the Fire Officials to bring that particular building facility into compliance with the latest codes. And, in this case, 1990 codes. Gil Mueller: In other words, the State can take presidence over the Local Codes, but not. . . Cliff Crawford: Yes! The Local Official, also enforces the State Codes, and most of the times are normally adopted in terms of their general policy, in terms of operating, in terms of their Local Page #35 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--District. Gil, whether it's a District or a Fire Department, because the Fire Districts and the local Fire Department are very similar on that respect. So, it is, it's very, very, confusing. Gil Mueller: It is confusing! Cliff Crawford: . . .and, because you don't just deal with that, you're also dealing with billing requirements, and building guidelines which may be different than the Life Safety Fire Codes which is generally the, The Life Safety Fire Codes are generally the most stringent, and the most restrictive in dealing with those issues than even local Building Department Rules and Regulations. Kim Kobza: Well, isn't there and issue too, and Mr. Pergyl, you can corect me if I'm incorrect, but as an architect, as you designed the building, you have the power, what you perceive as you professional judgement, to be the code, otherwise you have potential professional liability. Do you have professional liability? Ron Pergl: We're obligated, as you said, to inform, do those codes as written, in Protecton/Life Safety. If there is an interpretation, or a portion that we have overlooked, or if there is something else that is a different interpretation of the code, we're certainly open to that. In our professional judgement, we feel that this is what the code says. Kim Kobza: For instance, Page #36 4r Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--if Mr. . . . The Fire Reviewer, comes back, and you have a written opionion from him that alaws you not to sprinkle, or is of the opinion that sprinkling is not required, that professionally you've met your requirements. Ron Pergl: I believe so! Because, if it can be proved to us, that we do not need it, then. . . Kim Kobza: And on the other hand if you don't receive that opinion, then you can't i recomend to us to proceed without sprinkling. Is that correct? Ron Pergl: Correct Cliff Crawford: Mr. Kobza, Even from an operating position, and in addition to just the codes there, I think in general, when you are looking at facilities that are large or larger occupancy type facilities, like our community center, like Frank E. Mackie. Even looking at it, if it's a decision to make in terms of what may provide the safest environment for the 4 public using that facility, generally the recommendation from staff will be to proceed with whatever that approach might be. That 4 would be the case, irrespective of the codes. I'm very confident what Mr. Pergl is saying. That would be the recomendation, even from the potential liability perspective, in terms of use, if i something may happen dawn the road. I think you're always better, if you're going to air, or if you're going to make a decision air 1 i �n.rrrr..nrrw Page #37 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--on the side of safety, and on behalf of the public users. Gil Mueller: Well then a sprinkling system should have been put in there from the very beginning! Kevin O'Donnell: The reason a sprinkling system wasn't put in from the very beginning, was due to no other factor than cost. Gil Mueller: No other factor than cost? Kevin O'Donnell: Cost was the factor. We were tight! Again, we were building those bonds proceeds, we were trying to maximize the money as best we could to try to cover as many facilities as we could, and since that was a gray area, and it was a gray area that was it' going to cost significant dollars at the time, we said, "If we can get an interpretation that would save us significant dollars, and build the same building, let's do it!" Gil Mueller: I understand where you're coming from, but, I'm sure you wouldn't recommend any considerable overkill as far as Fire Extinguishers are concerned. If you really felt that it was unnecessary, in view of the limitations on the amount of money that you have to spend. It would be different if there was an unlimited, if it was an open end situation. But, we don't! We're restricted! And, by virtue of that restriction, we're ending up acording to Mr. Garby, with and additional 16 feet. You might as well forget about that! 4..r..r.mrs,, Page #38 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackle Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--Cliff Crawford: The other part that Pergl pointed out, as does the fire officials look at it, as we look at it, when we were, as Kevin pointed out, when we were looking at the construction, of these buildings, as staff, and as your previous board did, we really didn't have a feel in terms of the type of application and use use those buildings were going to have. And, that does have a bearing in terms of the Fire Code Requirements. Now that we've been operating that particular Community Center for a few years now, we've been able to look at the type of uses that it has, that definitley has a bearing in terms of what the approach may be, in terms of building requirements, expansion, use, and any legal or code requirements that may have. Now, that there's a known quantity, so to speak, in terms of the actual operating use of the faciltiy. Gil Mueller: Well Cliff, I'm sure you realize that this is a acquard, catch 22 situation, because if we're going to have to put in $33,000.00 worth of fire extinguishing equipment, a minimum of $33,000.00, I mean by the time your done, it's going to be $35,000.00. Cliff Crawford: I think your Boards recommendation, to speak to the fire officials and come back to you is sound. Kim Kobza: I've got a couple other questions. Are there other design Page #39 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--criteria? Is square footage the only design criteria that triggers the need for the sprinkling. So, for instance, on a first floor like this, if you add additional exits, for instance, does that somehow mitigate the need. Ron Pergl: You're right in certain types of occupancies. But not in this type. Your still required to have a certain number of exits. There are some tradeoffs in certain types of construction, as well as their occupancies, but not in this type. Kim Kobza: OK, so square footage alone. . . Ron Pergl: The code states that, and this is how the code comes up with a certain number of people, that in this case they consider one person for every seven square feet of floor area, irregardless if the room is 100 feet high. That's the figure we are working with. Based on that occupant load, we determine how many exits are required, and whether or not the room or the building needs to be sprinkled. Kim Kobza: Are there any other questions? Ron Pergl: I'd like to go back a little bit, and maybe clarify some of things that you're talking about relative to code issues. One thing that all the different fire districts have done, to the best of my knowledge, of course maybe I'm wrong. . . But, because of the inability for all of them to agree on a lot items. . . We are talking about, primarily Amommilmma. Page #40 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackle Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--Life Safety Code, and Building Code, they do sometimes directly conflict with each other in their requirements. So, the County has one single Fire Review Person, which reviews the plans in conformance to Life Safety Code and Fire issues, for all of the Fire Districts. So they all are obligated with his review. Now, he does not do inspecitons on the projects, because, that is out of another Department, with Development Services, and with the Fire Departments. So, the Fire Department will go out and do the inspections of the building, but they probably will not approve the initial plans of the building. But, they have in the past, tried to consolidate that particular facet of their operations. It's been a blessing to us. Kim K bza: Gil, I guess the question in the back of my mind is, irrespective of how the sprinkling question comes out, let's say that we didn't have to sprinkle even, we probably do, but let's just say we don't. Basically that's going to buy you another 300-400 feet. The ultimate question is, for the $100,000.00 would you, would a figure, a feeling or your opinion that adding 1,000 square feet let's say, or let's determine square feet, would be the way to spend those funds? Is that the next pressing need to <17.5> Geneva Till: Do they have sprinkling Page #41 0 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--systems at the other Comminity Centers? Kevin O'Donnell: We don't have other Community Centers. The only other Conimi.nity Center is Golden Gate 4 Community Center, and it was built years ago, and the only other newest one that we've got, is Mackie. Cliff Crawford: What I can i tell you, on the ones that are planned in the other areas, it is part of the design criteria. They do include them as part of the design criteria. Geneva Till: They do include them? Cliff Crawford: As part of the design criteria, yes mam! Gil Mueller: Well, to answer your question, <17.8> will involve more people. Kim Kobza: Ultimately, the question is, and we're asking Mr. Devoe here to go out, and do additional work for us. I think we probably need to do that, but. . . Gil Mueller: Well, as far as additional work is concerned, I think anybody can do it. Call Mr. Salvaggio, and have him send the life safety code information. Kevin O'Donnell: Ron, can easily do that, come back, and look at the next meeting, and decide what you want do do then. Kim Kobza: But, I think that's the ultimate question. Gil Mueller: The question is, that's the ultimate question. Kim Kobza: For $100,000.00, and if we get 1,000 square feet out of it, is that the best use of those funds? For 1100, 1200 square feet. Even if we Page #42 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting F. Frank E. Mackie Jr. Park Building Expansion (continued)--have additional funds? Gil Mueller: I'll have to think about that. Kim Kobza: Yes, we have to. . . OK! Do we have and agreement to table this? Gil Mueller: On the engineering, does this include engineering also? Ron Pergl: Yes Gil Mueller: Engineering plans, in addition to regular pictures? Ron Pergl: Yes, they do. Gil Mueller: OK! Kim Kobza: Do we have any further discussion on this? Can we have a motion to table the item? Geneva Till: I so motion. Gil Mueller: I second it. Kim Kobza: All in favor? That item will be tabled, and we will review it at the next meeting. G. Meetings at Other Sites--Kim Kobza: The next agenda item is Meetings at other Sites, and that relates to having the other people here present. Kevin O'Donnell: So does Tour Of Facilities. We talked about that, and wanted to throw it out, and have you guys pick a date and time, and when you want to do it. Kim Kobza: I did have one comment on Meetings at other sites. I think it's important, number one that we get people here, and in a routine. You know, it's a starting point, but when we do that to a point where we feel comfortable going to other sites, My own believe is, C Page #43 CExpanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting G. Meetings at Other Sites (continued)--and I'm only speaking for myself, I would like to go up Immokalee, very honestly. You know, I think that's the district that we know the least about, generally, it's the other four board members. We've been talking about Marco, in turn, we've been talking about a lot of facilities up in North Naples and Golden Gate. I really feel a little void. . . Kevin O'Donnell: We could do it in the Gymnasium in the Middle School. Gil Mueller: In the Middle School in Immokalce? Kevin O'Donnell: In the Middle School Gymnasium. Yes! That's one of the buildings that the county is acquiring. As long as we've got 0 an indoor facility for you to at least sit in. Gil Mueller: I agree with Kim. I very much would like to do that! I'm not really familiar with Immokalee, and should be familiar with Immokalee. Cliff Crawford: Mr. Kobza, I have one Agenda Item, when you're finished discussing that addition. Kim Kobza: OK! So, that's a comment I don't know if we need to take any action on it. Kevin O'Donnell: We can set it up for the next meeting. You guys can take action. One of the problems that I need to keep telling you about, from an administrative end, it that you have a quorum of three. Obviously, it's great to have your full five members here, but you can legally take action. If you want to set up a meeting, C a Page #44 \r, Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting G. Meetings at Other Sites (continued)--you want to make the April meeting in Immokalee, you can do that. You can officially say, "Let's do that!", and let's just do it, and we'll send out the notices. We'll be out there. If you want to wait, then so be it too. But you don't have to defer everything. Gil Mueller: It bothers me that we are deferring all this! Kevin O'Donnell: Well, it's bothering me too! If you want to take action, take action! Kim Kobza: Kevin, my feeling here, is not at the April meeting necessarily to meet in Immokalee, I just think that we've got to get going here. Kevin O'Donnell: OK! No Problem! I mean, if 41) you've got a better date: May, June, and July. Kim Kobza: But, whenever we do decide to hold a meeting at the other site, I think that we should probably target June. Gil Mueller: Let's have the next meeting in Immokalee. Kim Kobza: Well, the problem. . . Kevin O'Donnell: I don't have a problem with that. Kim Kobza: Before we do that, we have other agend items that we haven't addressed, that are going to go into the next meeting, and we have Beach Parking, . . . Kevin O'Donnell: Basically your agenda from this month. Kim Kobza: Right! The Agenda from this month, and according to the suggestions to the Agenda. I think that when we get out to Immokalee, it would be good to have and Agenda that also C I Page #45 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting G. Meetings at Other Sites (continued)--incorporated issues specifically refer to the Immokalee Facility. Gil Mueller: Cliff would know what those are, if you want to put them on the Agenda. . . Cliff Crawford: Yes! We've got some. . . Kevin O'Donnell: We've kept you updated, relative to the Middle School, but unless getting into some kind of informational thing, that we're doing this special event out here, or this particular program out here, we don't have anything actively ongoing. You know where we are at with the Middle School, we just are doing a slot, the School District's going to take action on it, they're still going to use the building. That's what we've boon telling you. Those are the major projects. Cliff Crawford: We do have some other additional 1 information. We've got a master plan for the Middle School site, that we could review with you as well. That's been discussed with Miss. Goodnight. Kim Kobza: Because part of the purpose of that exercise, is to have public participation, as will as to perform an educational function for us. Gil Mueller: Could we do it in May? Cliff Crawford: Mary Ellen, Mary Ellen. . . Kim Kobza: Could we do it in May, as opposed to the April meeting? How about a motion to Hold our May meeting in Immokalee? April we'll be back here, but hold our May meeting in Immokalee. How do you feel about that? AMIIIMMMMIMM Page #46 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting G. Meetings at Other Sites (continued)-mil Mueller: I don't know Kim, I'd like to get something decided this meeting. It's a waste of everyone's time to come here, and not make decisions, and move ahead. And, there aren't many things that we can logically decide on. Certainly not the Frank E. Mackie Park, or the Beach Parking, or the Election of Officers. What's your objection to having the Immokalee meeting next month? Rim Kobza: Next month I'd like to a. . . I think it's important that we get the five of us together at one meeting, and get taken care of what we need to have taken care of. Geneva Till: You don't have any guarantees though, that ILthey're going to be here. Gil Mueller: Well, that's another subject. Kim Kobza: Yes, that's. . . Geneva Till: <24.2> . . .to be post-poning. Kim Kobza: Well, if you want to go up there in May let's do it. If you want to go up there in April, lett go up there in April. Gil Mueller: Well, let's let's. . . I make a motion that. . . Well, first of all, let me predicate the motion on a question. Would it be improper, or would it be feasible for one of us, perhaps a board member to determine whether these people are going to be at these meetings? To call them, to emphasize the importance of being there, and ask them whether they're going to be there. If they're not, then maybe we can change it to another C meq Page #47 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting G. Meetings at Other Sites (continued)-week. I for one am not interested in coming to these meetings, and having three people here. We're just going to be wasting more time. Kevin O'Donnell: I would strongly endorse that, because the peer pressure among yourselves is what's going to get you guys to come here, or not come here. Staff can put together the information, and send you the packets. But, we can't bring you to the meetings, and if the peer pressure among your colleagues isn't going to get you there, then, I don't know what is. So! Yes! If you want to call each other up, and say, "Hey! Get to the meeting!" More power to you! Gil Mueller: They say, "never volunteer, but I am going to do it anyway. Kim Kobza: Do we have a motion, on meetings at other sites? Geneva Till: I feel like we should move ahead, and not spin our wheels. There isn't enough tiipe. That maybe this would be the thing that, and tell the other people we're going to make a motion, if you're not here, we're going to take action, but we want you here. I would be in favor of going to Immokalee in April. Gil Mueller: Is that a motion? Geneva Till: I'll make the motion. Gil Mueller: I'll second it. Kim Kobza: OK! We have a motion, and seconded. All in favor. . . Uninimously passed! Gill Mueller: Who am I calling? I don't know the new person. Kevin O'Donnell: Page #48 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting G. Meetings at Other Sites (continued)--Cherryle Thomas, and Steve Ball. Kevin O'Donnell: OK! The April meeting will be in Inmiokalee. IV. New Business A. Upcoming Community Wide Special Events Update--Cliff Crawford: Yes! Mr. Kobza, I have an addition, Ms. Mary Ellen Donner is here, our Recreaiton Superintendent, and I would like to updat you on some upcoming community wide special events. Mary Ellen. Mary Ellen Donner: That's me. Congratulations on your election to the board, I hope you enjoy your stay. Geneva Till: Oh! Well, thank you! Mary Ellen Donner: The Parks and Recreation Department for the month of April is going to be very busy, and I thought we need to give you a short little verb on what's going on in Recreation and in Parks section. On this coming. . . The first Saturday, which is April 7th. , there's a Walk America, and its something that 4 Collier County helps, March of Dimes. It starts from Cambier Park, and Parks and Recreation is going to have a team. If you would like to be part of our team, then we would be more than happy to have you walk with us. Gil Meuller: What do you have to do? Mary Ellen Donner: Well, acturally the way it works, is that Herb AMMO. Page #49 Nov Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting A. Upcoming Community Wide Special Events Update (continued)--Luntz and his office is heading it up. You walk. . . It's a ten mile walk, you don't have to walk ten miles. You can walk any portion thereof. Basically what the sponsorship money does, is that it goes to the March Of Dimes. So, that one starts at 8:00 the first Saturday in April, April 7th. , and there will be Commissioners that will be there, as well as County Employees, and our Department is going to challenge another department. So, if you'd like to come, we'd like to have you. The next weekend, which is April 14th. , we have our East Event, our Easter Egg Hunt, and this year we are working in conjunction with the Golden Gate Chamber of Commerce. And we're going to have an Easter Egg Hunt for children and adults, as well as Bunny Hopper Chopper. EMS is going to bring down thier helicopter and take children through. The 3300 Airborn Flying Aces, which are model airplaines that fly. We'll have demonstrations with jugglers, batons, kites, frizbees, gymnastics, anything basically to do with our theme, which is "Up, Up, and Away". Also, these are the eggs that are out on the field, (handed one out to each Board Member) , in each of these. . . Not all of the eggs, but some of the eggs that are going to be out on the field, there are going to be surprises. And we've got over $1500.00 worth err Page #50 QExpanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting A. Upcoming Community Wide Special Events Update (continued)--of prizes donated from the area businesses. One actually is a. . . There'll be 10 to $25 savings bonds, throughout the eggs. So, we've got a lot of work going into the buyers department, and Golden Gate Chamber of Commerce. The next weekend. . . Oh! Excuse Me! That Easter Egg Hunt is here at Golden Gate. The next weekend is, For Kids Sake Day, and we are co-sponsoring it with WINK TV, and that's going to be held at the North Naples Community Park. It will run from 10:00 a.m. until 3:00 p.m. , and basically what that is, is just emphasizing that this is Kids Day, and the whole shebang is dedicated to kids. There'll be demonstrations, food, and entertainment at North Naples. Gil Mueller: My goodness sakes! Isn't that nice! Excuse Me! Mary Ellen Donner: So, if you do happen to come out to our Special Event you might get one of those eggs with some other prize in it. And the next weekend. . . So, we've got four Saturdays in a row here. Collier County Glad Bag-A--Thon, is a week long event. What we're doing here on Saturday April 28th. , from 2:00 to 4:00 p.m. is Litter Olympics. We've been working specifically in Conjunction with the Solid Waste Department in Collier County, and what is happpened is Glad has sponsored, totally sponsored, totally supported the event here, and Page #51 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting A. Upcoming Community Wide Special Events Update (continued)--we're going to have various organizations throughout the community. This is going to be one of the main drop-off points for the litter. We're going to have Trash Sculpturing Contests, a Human Checkers Game. Mr. O'Donnell is going to be one of the players. You're acturally going to stand on the squares. We're going to have a hands on crafts that the actual litter that we collect, we have household items that the kids actually collect that the kids actually make crafts out of it. Trash lottery, and all sorts of things, so you have to came out to our trash olympics on that day, (passed out caps) , if you can make any or all, at any of the parks, you will be more than welcome. That's what we've got planned for next month. Kim Kobza: Where's that? Mary Ellen Donner: The Trash Olympics will be here, starting at 2:00 to 4:00. Kevin O'Donnell: That's something that we really want to encourage you to participate in, and also, if you're there for just five minuets, or if you are there the entire time. If you can be there as a particular volunteer on a particular activity, feel free to call Mary Ellen, tell her that you'd be willing to do something between 10:00 and 1:00, or 10:00 and noon, or something like that. She's always looking for volunteers. We can have you doing anything from 0 Page #52 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting A. Upcoming Community Wide Special Events Update (continued)—manning a booth, to. . . Mary Ellen: Judging the sculptures. KevinO'Donnell: Yes! Judging the sculptures too. Whatever, we'll put you to good usP. Geneva Till: Is that on Saturday? Kevin O'Donnell: On any of those events that she ran off. We always need volunteers for that stuff. Mary Ellen: The last one, the Litter Olympics, is Saturday, April 28th. , from 2:00 p.m. until 4:00 p.m. here at Golden Gate. But, all of these are County wide events, but they change different locations. Gil Mueller: What Cdid you say you were having on Marco Island? Mary Ellen: On Marco Island, we do have. . . These are County Wide, but at each of the County Parks, there are Community Special Events, there's not a County Wide Special Event in April. But there is, "St. Patrick's Day, sort of thing. Cliff Crawford: There is an Ice Cream Eating contest down there this weekend. Gil Mueller: When? Cliff Crawford: I think it's this Saturday. I think it's this Saturday. Yes! Mary Ellen: But these ones that I have are County Wide. But, each of the Community Parks have their own Mini-Special Events Kevin O'Donnell: Gil, it's in your Leisure Line. Check your Leisure Line, which is the book we put together. If you don't. . . Before you leave, we'll give you another one. But check the C Page #53 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting A. Upcoming Community Wide Special Events Update (continued)--leisure line, and it's got all the programs listed right in there. Look under Mackle, and you'll see all the various activities we've got going down there. Gil Mueller: Oh! Well, thank you! Kevin O'Donnell: Any time you want to volunteer at any of those, again, call Mary Ellen, and maybe she'll be able to work you in. We really want to encourage you to do that. It's two for one. It gives you a feel of what the Department's doing, secondly, it give us volunteers, which we are always desperately looking for. Third, 11) it'll give you some insite as to improving the programs, making suggestions, you can also see what restrictions we're working under, and the neat things that we are doing. So, I think it will be good experience for you as well as for us. Kim Kobza: When's Earth Week? Mary Ellen: Earth Week is the. . . I believe it's in May. It's called Nature Earth Week. We are planning something there too. I'm just not quite sure about the date, etc. Kim Kobza: I might just mention that were 7 or 8 volunteers at the Vanderbilt Association who worked on the beach up there. Remember when Nan had asked the group to adapt the beach. That was kind of the thing of the volunteers, so you might want to get together with Art Jacob. Mary Ellen: For the 28th. , that's a very good idea. 0 Page #54 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 Meeting A. Upcoming Community Wide Special Events Update (continued)--Kim Kobza: I don't know that. . . Well you might tie it in to the 28th. He presented it in terms of the Earth Week deal. But on the other hand, if was the 28th. , maybe that would work fine. I think he got 7 volunteers or 8 volunteers, probably get some more. Gil Mueller: That sounds very admirable, and I might say courageous on part of the staff. Kim Kobza: Right! Well, that North Naples Program, is just excellent! Very well attended by kids. We didn't have great weather last year, did we? Cliff Crawford: No! Do you remember 41) that? Kevin O'Donnell: Yes! A couple of years earlier, we had some really nice weather. It kind of drizzled. Cliff Crawford: Drizzled all week! Gil Mueller: Are you still optomistic about the Snow Festival? Cliff Crawford: Absolutely! Think positive! All the time! Gil Mueller: I thought your plans might have been dampered a little bit. Cliff Crawford: That's a good play on words, Mr. Mueller. Kim Kobza: At North Naples, are we still going to run the buses back and forth? Mary Ellen Donner: We have it in the plans. Yes! Kim Kobza: Is the construction up there going to effect the logistics of that at all? Mary Ellen Donner: No! Kim Kobza: Any other discussion at all? OK! The last Agenda Item is Tour of Facilities. Page #55 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 meeting Tour of Facilities--Kevin O'Donnell: Again, you talked about, in terms about going out an checking out various facilities. As an organized group, maybe you want to pick a date and time as to when you would like to all do that. You see, we're not going to cover all 400+ acres on one day, or the whole county. But if you want to check out what we've got, for instance in the Immokalee area. We've got a number of neighborhood parks out there, Airport Park, Oil Well Park, among some others. Lake Trafford, where we have our only fresh water boat launch facility. If you are going to be 4- there, what I would suggest is to keep the Agenda relatively short, 41) exclusively to what we already have on there for April. Let's just say, it looks like you're going to break up in another 30 seconds or so. So, that's a little bit after 10:00 a.m. We can take you out and give you a cooks tour of those facilities in Immokalee. You could probably be done by 11:00, you'll start heading back to the Naples area, and be back here by 12. So, if you kind of mentally look, and give yourself a half a day. We can physically show you where they are at, we can see Lake Trafford. We got into a discussion a couple of months ago, do we or do we not lock it. You know. That type of thing. You can always visualy see what we've got out there. Gil Mueller: Good idea! Kevin O'Donnell: We can always set it up for you that way. Kim Kobza: Can we set 0 Page #56 CExpanded Minutes 03/15/90 meeting A. Tour of Facilities (continued)--that thing up that same day, so we could tie it all together? Cliff Crawford: Yes, sir! Kevin O'Donnell: OK! Kim Kobza: But, can we do it before the meeting? Kevin O'Donnell: If you want. Well, if you all get there before 8:30 a.m. , you have to do it as a body. Ok! You're running into a little bit of Parlimentary Procedure. Collectively, three or more of you together, you're collectively as a body, so you need to call the mooting together. So, if you did it at 8:35 or if you did it at 10:15, it doesn't make any difference to us. So may want to run through some of your stuff first, or you may want to run through it later. We need to know, because if we're going to have Ron, I don't want to have Ron trucking up there at 7:30 in the morning, to get of Inmlokalee for an 8:30 meeting, if we're going to tell him we're going to tour the facilities first. He doesn't care about that stuff. He can show up at 10:00 when we get back to the discussion area. So, I think what we need to just. . . Gil Mueller: Let's just fire the meeting, and then do it. It's a matter of discourse. Keying O'Donnell: Yes! Cliff and I are going to be there, Ramona's going to be there. . . Gil feller: What's a good time for you? Kevin O'Donnell: Well, I think you're looking at. . . We've got some consultants, you've asked to have them come back, I'm sure sure they would like to have closer to a date certain so 0 Page #57 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 mooting A. Tour of Facilities (continued)--they know when they can get out there as far as the time. Kim Kobza: Let's do it, what I'd like to suggest, the third Thursday. Keep our meeting date the same. We convene our meeting, see the facilities, and then come back and start our business. Kevin O'Donnell: OK! I think you're going to need to give yourself an hour then, to tour the facilities. Just to drive to them, and see them. So that means that if you are going to physically be there at 8:30, that means 9:30 we'll start the mooting, you can tell Ron 10:00 then. Kim Kobza: 10:00's fine with me. Gil Mueller: Yes! Make it. . . I'd rather have 9:30. 41) That's a little tight. Kim Kobza: Will that work? Gil Mueller: Sounds good to me! Kevin O'Donnell: OK! We'll take up the building expansion of Frank E. Merckle at 10:00 a.m. on the Agenda. And we can hit that pretty close, like I said. At 8:30, we'll do the tour, be back by 9:30, you can run through a couple of other otbcut clot things, you can talk abut the Cimanship, and that kind of stuff. by 10:00 you'll be ready to go with this stuff. Cliff Crawford: Why don't you. . . Mr. Kobza, I might suggest that maybe you might all want to meet here at some point, instead of everybody taking individual vehicles up. Centralize that. Unless there's a personal need. Kim Kobza: I think that I'd like to drive myself Cliff. Gil Mueller: I'll drive, but I need somebody to go with me 0 Page #58 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 meeting A. Tour of Facilities (continues)--that knows where this place is. Geneva Till: I know where it is. Gil Mueller: Do you? Geneva Till: Yes! I have a lot out there. Cliff Crawford: Oh! There you go! You're hooked up! Kevin O'Donnell: We just matched you guys up! Cliff Crawford: Yes! That'd be nice. Kevin O'Donnell: Let's do it, probably at the Gymnasium. Because of those band rooms, I don't know, they're going to be too small. At least the Gymnasium will be big enough for us to set up a couple of tables like this. Kim Kobza: Where exactly are we going to meet. Cliff Crawford: Let me do this, because school is in session, I'm sure ® that day, we'll need to give you specifics either as part of your package, by phone calls or a combination. We need to firm that up so we don't conflict with the school's schedule. They may be in the Gymnasium at that time. Gil Mueller: I think one of our principle objectives is to make sure that we have the proper number of board members here in the future. Because I think this is a problem. Kevin O'Donnell: Well, I guess unless something happens to you Gill, I know that 2/3's or 2/5's of the contingent will show up to Immokalee. You'll be calling the others, probably between now and April, using your pursuasive powers, hopefully we'll have a full turnout of five members. Kim Kobza: We will! Kevin O'Donnell: OK! Great! Kim Kobza: Let's talk about our Agenda. C Page #59 4111) Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 meeting j -fir: Tour of Facilities (continued)--Let's get some organization, about what we are going to do the next month or two. I had asked that the North Naples Community Center be put on the Agenda. Kevin O'Donnell: Then when you asked me when we ran into each other in the Court House, you said, "Would this meeting be the first one? Defer it." Kim Kobza: Right! Right! Right! So, maybe the next mooting would not be the appropriate place to put that on the Agenda. Could we move the North Naples Community Center to the May, 1990 Agenda? Gil Mueller: It's OK with me. Kim Kobza: And then, we've got the Beach Parking Permit, a Frank Mackie Park Building Expansion Question. There are-taw items that came up. One of which I'd like to see on the next Agenda if possible. And that was the Catamaran Ordinance. Remember the. . . Kevin O'Donnell: Beach Safety? Kim Kobza: Maybe you titled it as the beach safety Ordinance. I'm not sure. Kevin O'Donnell: You are talking about the Ordinance that we've got in effect right now, that regulates boats and stuff. Kim Kobza: No! Catamarans on the Beach. Kevin O'Donnell: OK! You mean the parking issue? Kim Kobza: Right! Right! Kevin O'Donnell: OK! We can bring that up for discussion. There is no Ordinance or anything on it. Kim Kobza: Right! Can we have a discussion, and relate it to Catamarans on the Beach? Kevin O'Donnell: Are you talking about AMMIIMMIW Page #60 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 meeting Tour of Facilities (continued)--for April? Kim Kobza: For April. Let's do it! Also, maybe the next meeting would. . . I don't know if the next item would be the appropriate place to put on the Agenda. Maybe I can have some input. I know in my reading, many counties are considering ordinances which deal with plastics on the beach. Because, animals will internalize the plastics, whether they be straws, or whatever. I know that some counties have actually complete bans of plastic materials on the beach. I would like to have us educate ourselve a little bit on what other counties are doing that, and whether that might be something appropriate for Collier County. We could have that discussion at the next meeting, I think as a starting point. Kevin O'Donnell: OK! I've got to caution you right now. You're starting off at 8:30, you're going to do a tour. That's going to go unitl 9:30. OK! Now, you've got to do an Election of Officers, that shouldn't be terribly controversial, but you're going to have to do that. You are going to get into a discussion on the building expansion, which I assume is going to be fairly in depth. Because, you want to make a decision on that. You have also deferred the Beach Parking. You know the last time you took that up, that took a lot of time. If you get into the discussion of boat parking on the Beach, and Plastics On The Beach, you are not going to get out of there by 11:00 a.m. Gil Mueller: Then there's Conklin Point, then Page #61 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 meeting Tour of Facilities (continued)--there's Tigertail. . . Kevin O'Donnell: Well you will not be out of here by 11:00, which is what I was talking about by saying, if you guys give yourself an hour to drive back, you'll be back in the Naples area by noon. You're not going to do that. If you want to spend more time, so be it, but. . . Gil Mueller: Why do we have to be back in Naples by noon? Kevin O'Donnell: I'm just saying you guys were talking in terms of half of a day in Immokalee. You're loading up a real heavy Agenda there. (Tape #2, Side A)--Kim Kobza: I think it's important, from my perspective, this is apliant position. We've 401) got a critical business to do, and I'll take whatever times it takes to do it. You know, that's what I see as my repsonsibility. So, if we sit here until 4:00, I'll sit here until 4:00 to get it done. OK! I'll leave it to staff's discreation, as to whether that's discussed at the next meeting, or whether it'll be more appropriate for the May meeting, considering what Immokalee related issues might be on the Agenda. You might decide that you want to put some Immokalee. . . Cliff Crawford: Yes! There will be. We haven't talked yet. There's been some changes of staff there. There's some things that we'd like to do that will take a few minutes that I think are important. There is some new staff there, that maybe some of you all have never met, some of which we just hired in the last few weeks. Gil Mueller: Are we going to meet Page #62 401) Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 meeting Tour of Facilities (continued)--here? Cliff Crawford: Yes! No, they'll be at. . . Gil Mueller: No! I mean, are we going to meet here at 8:30 a.m. , and then drive up. Kevin O'Donnell: We're driving out there at 8:30, we'll be on the road. . . Cliff Crawford: You all might want to hook up here. because, she is here in Golden Gate. Kevin O'Donnell: You are starting your meeting at 8:30 a.m. in Immokalee. Cliff Crawford: You know, we haven't worked our Agenda, so I think. . . I understand what you're saying Mr. . . Kim Kobza: OK! I had a discussion with a young lady last night, that was involved in planning at Immokalee. There apparently is and issue related to whether we develope more neighborhnrd facilities, as opposed to Community Park Facilities. At least that's the discussion, maybe that's an appropriate topic. One other thing that I want to mention, another good point was made at the Vanderbilt meeting. Related to signage for Vanderbilt Parks and Clam Pass Parks. It evolved from a discussion with George Archiblad. Where a lot of our collector roads leading to those parks we really don't have signs that locate Vanderbilt Beach Park Parking, or Clam Pass Parking on U.S. 41 or on any of the major roads. Now the State Park has all sorts of signs for it. But, it might be interesting for instance, Wiggins Pass State Park has. . . It's full all of the time, their blocking off the traffic every weekend, virtually. If same of that overflow that can be diverted C Page #63 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 meeting l,; :- . Tour of Facilities (continued)--down to the Vanderbilt Beach Park, that may not be an all bad idea, because attendance of course is one of our objectives. So, if we can do that through signage. . . Or if Clam Pass Park for that matter. If we can do that through signage. I thought that was a great idea. Cliff Crawford: It is! Sure, I will. Kim Kobza: That was the only thing that I wanted to mention. Kevin O'Donnell: OK! We'll look into that. Kim Kobza: Is there any other discussion, or any other business? Gil Mueller: A problem too, at Mackle Park, as far as the sign situation is concerned. I had talked to Murdo about that, and I've heard a number of people say that they were not able to find that turn, off of Heathwood at night. So, I thought, I know where it is because I've been to that park. So, I went by there, and I almost missed it. It's very Clark, it's a sign about this big, and a lot of us being Senior Citizens, have some dificulty in seeing that. Kevin O'Donnell: We can probably take one of the lights from Winterberry, and kind of direct it towards the sign. We've got a couple of shields we can put right over it. Gil Mueller: Seriously, that is a problem. Kevin O'Donnell: I know, it is dark out. Sure! We can look into that. Gil Mueller: I was going to suggest, that perhaps. . . They have street lights all along there. In the middle of the block, at the end of the block, at dead end streets. If one of those street lights, . . .to add a street light at Page #64 Expanded Minutes 03/15/90 meeting A. Tour of Facilities (continued)--that corner, perhaps one of those street lights, that aren't necessary, can be moved to that corner to illuminate that sign. Because, you can miss that street very easily. Kevin O'Donnell: I can look into that. Gil Mueller: Thank you. Kim Kobza: Is there any other discussion at all? OK! then we'll entertain a motion to adjorn. Gil Mueller: I'll motion to adjorn. Geneva Till: I will second it. Kim Kobza: Ok! Motion made and seconded, all in favor. . . The meeting is adjorned. V. The meeting was adjourned at 10:30 a.m. C rtd:002140