Agenda 10/14/1988 S N f
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Special Meeting 10/14/88
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Parks & Recreation
Advisory Board met on this date at 10: 30 A.M. in the
Conference Room of the Administration Building at Golden Gate
Community Park, Naples, Florida, with the following members
present:
Vice Chairman: Scott McQuillin
Charles Stevens
Fred Thomas, Jr.
Absent: Chairman, Ron Burton
Donna Baltakis
ALSO PRESENT: Mr. Roger Otten, Director of Management
Information Services for Planning Collier County School
District; Mr. Samuel Lee, Immokalee Assistant School
Superintendent; Kevin O'Donnell, Public Services
Administrator; Cliff Crawford, Parks and Recreation
Director; Barbara Johnson, Parks and Recreation Secretary.
SPECIAL MEETING - IMMOKALEE MIDDLE SCHOOL LAND SWAP
The meeting was opened by Mr. McQuillin, Vice Chairman in the
absence of Chairman Ron Burton. Mr. Otten and Mr. Lee were
introduced.
Mr. Crawford welcomed and thanked everyone for attending this
special meeting to discuss the Recommendation by the Staff to
the Board of County Commissioners to exchange property in the
Immokalee area with the School Board open areas for
designated facilities at the existing Immokalee Middle School
site.
Within the Comprehensive Plan funding for development of
Parks and Recreation facilities in the Immokalee area
authorization was received 9 months ago to proceed with the
football and soccer field at the Heath site. The School
Board at the same time needed space to develop their
facilities and the football/soccer field was put into
abeyance. The School System proceeded to evaluate their
needs, the Park System contacted consultants Wilson, Miller,
Barton, Soll & Peek who employed specialists to evaluate the
civil, architectural, electrical/mechanical and structural
aspects of the facility to see if it could be adapted to our
Comprehensive Plan in Immokalee. After much detailed
analysis and investigation, it would be a very suitable site
for development of some of our physical facilities in the
Immokalee area and we would be recommending to proceed with
negotiations with the School System for the exchange of the
Heath property with the Immokalee Middle School . We have
hurdles to address. The proposal would benefit the Immokalee
community as well as the School and Parks Systems. Mr. Heath
donated land with deed restrictions, and there still is, but
has indicated willingness to authorize and approve the
exchange. We are recommending that we proceed with this
exchange of property and funding for the development be tied
into the Immokalee MSTD for those improvements other than
those identified as normal in our Growth Management Plan.
The Park System is interested in the gymnasium, Industrial
Arts Building, reception area and the locker room facilities,
excluding the band room. . One of the additional advantages
of working with the School System would be available PECO
funds for the development of the pool which should be built
in the Immokalee area in our Comprehensive Plan. In addition
to our relationship and other benefits it would also provide
us with one additional funding source to help in the
development of this facility. The Executive Summary drafted
for the Board of County Commissioners' review required this
special meeting so the School Board could move forward on
acquiring land adjacent to the Heath property for a new
school site. We have some representatives from the School
system here today to try and answer any questions you may
have with the proposal being presented to you.
Mr. McQuillin: Mr. Otten and Mr. Lee have both received
copies of this report? Mr. Otten: Yes, I have and have
discussed it with Mr. Lee. Two things - both of us, the
County and the School System discussed, The Superintendent
and County Manager have talked, and we have met a number of
times. There are a number of things that have to happen. We
are involved, as you are involved today, with a number of
Boards that we have to go through with this. This is just
one step in a series that both sides must take. We are in
agreement with the Industrial Arts Building - you are not
interested in the band room - Mr. Crawford: The issue of
availability is what we are talking about. We recognize
certain current needs for everyone. Improvements are to be
done over a three year period for financial reasons and also
to allow a transition period. The immediate need for the
public would be more than a gymnasium facility. It would
also provide a higher level of service to the people in the
Immokalee area. We have had no plans to build a gymnasium in
Immokalee. The Comprehensive Plan allows us to exceed those
standards. We can do it cost effectively to provide services
in Immokalee. There are lots of details of the contract,
Boards and approvals that need to be worked out in the
contract document. We do not have an immediate need for some
of the sites that the school system does. Mr. Lee: I met
with the principal of the Immokalee Middle School this
morning and we are prepared from the School position to work
very closely with you in this transfer of sites. We are
interested enough in the project to make reasonable
concessions. I think it is great that you have a three year
plan. We should be out in two and would not have a need past
that time. We can work and cooperate together so the work
can be done and still have use of the facility. Mr.
Crawford: The development and construction of the
football/soccer field would be the first project. Mr. Lee:
We would have the main impact on us. We have other
facilities adjacent to the high school that we can use. Mr.
Crawford: We will have to re-design the Master Plan for the
Immokalee Middle School site. We have ideas and would modify
so we could work together. We will be looking at changes.
Mr. Lee: We would ask to have some notice of work planned so
we can work around that but it looks as if that be no problem
- it looks good. Mr. Otten: Let me emphasize while we have
explored this and think it will work out OK there are some
existing questions. Your Board first has to take it to the
Board of County Commissioners, the School Board has to
acquire the piece of property adjacent to the Heath site.
We do not want to buy land until the swap goes through.
There are a number of things to consider but I do not think
there is going to be any problem. We all understand that we
think it is the way to work, but we have things to do, and it
will take a period of time. Mr. O'Donnell: First the School
Board approached us, we presented it to the Board of County
Commissioners, they said yes pursue it, and it could result
in building at a reasonable cost. The report came back at
approximately $604, 000. We had not budgeted any money for a
gymnasium. The report says that facilities built on the
Heath site or Immokalee Middle School will cost the same.
Facilities design for the Heath property will cost the same.
Money funded was for the development of a football/soccer
field. The pool, community center, and play area, those
monies are still presently to be set aside. We would now not
have to build that Community Center. We are not eliminating
anything - pool will be moved, Community Center will still be
on, etc. Mr. Thomas: The bottom line - the Heath property
and $604, 000. Everything that was originally going on the
Heath property, plus $604, 000. Mr. O'Donnell: Yes, that is
the bottom line. Staff recommended a three year phasing of
the 604 , 000 through the Immokalee MSTD. Mr. Stevens: The
property cost will not be handled through Parks and
Recreation. Mr. O'Donnell: Not in the General Fund.
Original cost will be County wide. Additional rehabilitation
and operation costs will be paid out of MSTU from Immokalee -
it will not be paid by the whole County. Mr. Stevens: Do
you have to construct a new school building? Mr. Otten: We
are going to construct a new Immokalee Middle School on
existing property and will now go over to the Heath property.
We will utilize some structures for awhile and then tear them
down. Mr. Thomas: We have the existing Old Immokalee Middle
School across from the High School. Part of that facility
is a spectator size gymnasium with a multi purpose floor and
some other buildings that we are not particularly interested
0 in. The School District was going to build a new school in
the area of open space adjacent to the old school, tear the
school down and have that area for open space. This would
result in an odd shaped building. The piece of property
across from the school is the Heath property. That property,
plus a piece of private property owned by Roberts, those
combined pieces of property, will be enough to build a school
and leave open space. Save the gymnasium, the School Board
is not putting up a gymnasium and it needs to be saved.
Adjacent to the gym is open space that would be ideal for the
pool. Mr. Stevens: The School Board does not build a
gymnasium spectator size? Answer: Not in Middle schools.
The "Park" gymnasium would be used for summer lunch programs,
summer camp programs, etc. . Mr. Thomas: We will have
recreational facilities in the central part of Immokalee with
fields, gymnasium and recreational facilities to be used as
a whole. Mr. Crawford: One gymnasium is currently planned
County-wide and it would be in East Naples. This will
provide above level services and will be paid by Immokalee.
Mr. Stevens: If the School Board takes over the Heath
property and constructs new facilities, then Parks and
Recreation takes over the old buildings not wanted to be
used. Mr. Thomas: If we do not make a swap a new facility
will still be built. The old school would be kept open, then
the kids would be moved and the old building converted to
open space. I recommended that we make a swap with the Heath
property and add to it the Roberts property. Instead of
tearing them down we save them. (Map shown. ) Mr. Lee: We
would not have torn down the gymnasium, it is too valuable a
facility that we would like to have. Our Middle School
teaching gymnasium has no facilities for spectators and we
will need this gymnasium for school programs. There is a
great demand in the evening for basketball. There are 150
kids with no place to play. I see that gymnasium as a
valuable asset to the Community; there will be times I am
sure that we would like to use it for practice for the
school. We have a spectator gymnasium at the high school .
Originally the old Immokalee Middle school was everything,
including the high school. The purpose of the other
buildings has not yet been determined; could be used for
administrative purposes, adult community center, pre-school
etc. and we would like to think that we would have a good
neighbor. We would like to have some agreement that we would
be able to use the facilities when not in great demand. Mr.
Stevens: Might you use the gym during the day for school
activities, you would be across the street? Mr. Lee: Here I
am speaking as an individual, would use as a pre-school
program for four years at the present Immokalee Middle School
facility, begin exchange of ideas, if we did that it would be
possible to have children have access to park facilities.
That may never be realized, a pre-school on that site,
otherwise we would not have use for it. Once children are in
school we do not let them out. Unless we house a pre-school
on that site it would not be used during the school day. We
will have a teaching gym in the new Immokalee Middle School.
We may want to use it until the new building is done. Mr.
McQuillin: I would like to see more of a sharing of
facilities by both School Board and Parks and Recreation than
in the past. Could the one in the Middle School not be used
during the evening by other people and during the summer?
Mr. Lee: Parks and Recreation used that gym every summer.
Mr. Crawford: You are going to build a new site teaching
gym. Is that going to be available to the Public? Mr. Lee:
We open up the gyms now. Mr. McQuillin: Is there a chance
they are not always being used in the evening? Mr. Lee: Yes.
They are used by the public after school hours. Some of
them have been Parks and Recreation sponsored, some Adult and
Community programs. Yes, both gyms get heavy usage and I
would see that continuing. Mr. McQuillin: $200, 000 a year
for three years would be a heavy tax. If the tax payer wants
to use the gyms there would be ways to use the gyms? Mr.
Lee: During basketball season the gym is shut down for
Community use, but in other parts of the year when we are not
there it is still used. During the week all kinds of
programs continue and this would give an opportunity to
expand - it would not be needed during days for school
programs. Mr. Stevens: What was proposed on the Heath
property for the Park? Mr. Crawford: Football/soccer field,
pool, open play area. Mr. Stevens: The football/soccer field
will be located over there and included with what the Park
System gets? Mr. O'Donnell: It will be owned and operated
by the County. The football/soccer field does not yet exist.
Mr. Stevens The cost of construction will be up to Parks and
Recreation. Mr. O'Donnell: The football/soccer field would
have gone on the Heath property but it was put on hold until
this matter was resolved. Mr. Stevens: There is 14 acres
involved. We are saying that we will swap the Heath property
for this and the buildings will be condemned by the State.
Mr. Otten: The State designates a school site and allows the
school system to tear down and replace. We could not build a
new school unless the State came in and looked at the
facility. With enough population, we could build a new
middle school which we have decided to do. Some parts of
that building will be torn down; none of the part you are
looking at. We may keep some of the other buildings, it is
not decided yet by the School Board, but it has nothing to do
with what we are taking about here. We may use some of them
in the future. Mr. Crawford: Again, this is just a first
draft and there is no decision even by Staff for layout, etc.
Mr. Stevens: How will this fit in the five year Master Plan?
Mr. O'Donnell: The pool, football/soccer field, children's
play area are already programmed in. Two pools, a 25 meter
and an Olympic pool - yes, it is included in that plan so it
qualifies. Mr. Crawford: Yes, the Growth Management Plan
submitted to the State does not take into consideration a gym
in the Immokalee community. We are updating our plan and we
will be providing an additional level of service. We are
meeting and exceeding it. It will put us above what the plan
now calls for. Rehabilitation and operating will be built
into our budget each year. Mr. Stevens: What hours will it
remain open? Mr. O'Donnell: It is not yet determined. Mr.
Stevens: Can the public use it? Mr. Crawford: The School
needs must be met first and it would not be open to the
public at the same time. After three years it will be like
any other community park. Mr. O'Donnell: We would own and
maintain it. We would see use of the gym, also for lunch
programs, etc. Mr. McQuillin: Would the people in
Immokalee pay for this, how much would it add to their taxes.
Not known at this time. Mr. O'Donnell: It is a viable
option at this point. Now we would like to ask the
Commissioners' approval to sit down and really hammer out the
swap of land. The School Board will take it back to their
Board. Our Board would agree and move on from there. Mr.
McQuillin: Open space is eliminated; we are talking about
trading facilities, age of 30 years which are older
facilities. We also have the Gulfview Middle School, will
this also be condemned? Mr. Otten: Condemned in this sense
means that it is no longer adequate for middle school
programs. Gulfview was renovated recently. We are going to
continue to use it. Mr. McQuillin: Is it possible that this
might not set a precedent, and that we might find ourselves
doing this again? Mr. Otten: When we now build a school the
first people we approach is the Parks and Recreation
Department about sharing playground area. We place that
facility on the site so that the open space would be
accessible to Parks and Recreation and to the public, so we
do work together. There is cooperation between the School
District and Parks and Recreation - we have a number of
agreements between Parks and Recreation and the School
District. They are renewed every year and I could not
imagine that anyone would change that. This is not unusual
to work together; we have not had a school site involved
before. Mr. Thomas: We are making this more difficult, we
are getting 14 acres developed and we are giving up 14 acres
not developed. Mr. O'Donnell: We are getting facilities
above what we had contemplated. It is advantageous to us.
Mr. Stevens: With no cost to Parks and Recreation. Mr.
Crawford: We are involved in upgrading our agreements and
plans for the future. Two new sites will be developed as
school sites and park sites, the Vineyard and Orange Tree.
We recognize the needs of the Administrative system as well
as the Parks System. We have had a good relationship the
last few years and we are paving the way for the rest of the
State on what we are accomplishing here. Mr. O'Donnell: The
conception of our relationship by other people is wrong. Mr.
Crawford: We want to build community parks and put them next
to schools. The school System can put more money into
classrooms and everyone wins. Mr. Otten: If it all falls
apart we will still build a new building. Mr. Lee: We
anticipate before the school is completely built there will
be 1, 000 children ages 12 to 14 ; Gulfview has 600. All
alternatives are being considered. Mr. Thomas: The School
Board is going to replace the school. If some property
became available they might build over here. They are going
to build it any way. If we make the swap they can now build
in a more suitable site. Mr. O'Donnell: We are going to
build a football/soccer field, 25 meter pool and childrens'
play area no matter where we built it. Mr. McQuillin: Any
other questions? Mr. Thomas: I MOVE WE RECOMMEND TO PROCEED
WITH SWAP OF HEATH PROPERTY FOR IMMOKALEE MIDDLE SCHOOL - ALL
FACILITIES EXCEPT THE BAND ROOM. SECONDED: Mr. Stevens.
Approval 3-0. Mr. Thomas: MOVE THAT WE ADJOURN. SECONDED:
Mr. Stevens.
Meeting adjourned at 11: 40.