CAC Minutes 05/09/2002 RMay 9, 2002
COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
County Commissioners Boardroom
Building F, 3ra Floor
3301 Tamiami Trail
Naples, FL 34104
MINUTES
May 9, 2002
Chairman Gary Galleberg called meeting to order at 1:30 P.M.
ATTENDANCE
Members: Gary Galleberg, Anthony Pires, William Kroeschell, John Strapponi, Ron Permington,
Robert Stakich
Collier County: Ron Hovell, P.E.
City of Naples: Dr. Jon C. Staiger
Others: Shannon Cromwell - Conservancy of Southwest Florida, Ruth McCann - Marco Island
Civic Association, Regina Reilly - Marco Island Beach Advisory Committee, Ken Humiston -
Humiston & Moore Engineering, Julie Locascio - Friends of Tigertail
Mr. Galleberg introduces new member, Ron Pennington.
II.
ADDITIONS TO AGENDA
Mr. Galleberg asked if there were to be any additions to the agenda and Ron Hovell confirmed that
there were two additions; a DEP response letter and activities summary. There was a movement
to start covering new business, but Mr. Hovell wanted to first address the additions to the agenda.
The DEP sent a response letter on May 6 regarding the sand web system that was being used in
parts of Collier County. The DEP stated in its' letter that they consider the sand web system an
experimental technology and if the county wanted to pursue it, they could not simply modify the
existing permit, but would be required to submit a new joint coastal permit application. Their
indication is that unless the county had a different use of the sand web system, they would not give
permits for this until the system goes through full tests and they make a decision whether it will be
useful for the future.
Mr. Galleberg wondered how this arose since he felt that this committee, the Naples City Council,
and the Board of County Commissioners agreed to not modify the permit. Mr. Hovell responded
by informing the committee that actually Parker Beach Restoration, Inc. had petitioned the board
at a meeting in March to modify permits in order to later decide whether to truck in sand verse
using the sand web system.
William Kroeschell wanted to know when the permits expire and Mr. Galleberg believed that it
was 18 months of monitoring after April 30th, when the nets have been removed. Mr. Hovell
confirmed.
Mr. Hovell then spoke about the project where sand was trucked onto Naples and Vanderbilt
beaches. He stated that they were able to truck 45 cubic yards of sand and deposit between
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IV.
Doctor's Pass and Naples Avenue, which brought that area aback to the design height, but not the
~vidth, of the renourishment project of 1995-1996. He felt this project went well and they did a
good job accommodating all the hotels and beach vendor's requests. Dr. Jon Staiger later stated
his agreement with this, as well.
Mr. Galleberg wanted to tie that in to the discussion about the sand web system. He wanted to
know how long it took to truck in and deposit the 50,000 cubic yards of sand. Mr. Hovell
answered that it took about 6 weeks.
Dr. Jon Staiger then provided the committee with the statistics concerning the sand web system.
He stated that during the 5 months that the web was in place, about 20,000 to 25,000 cubic yards
were deposited. The prediction for the project was 60,000 cubic yards. Mr. Galleberg noted that
we will never know how much of that would have come back just by nature. Dr. Staiger pointed
out that a benefit of the system was that during February and March, the beach with the netting did
not gain or lose any sand, however, the control groups experienced erosion during this time.
Ron Pennington stated that he observed the area where the Parker web had been, and he did not
observe any difference between that area and the areas south. He also was concerned because
south of Doctor's Pass, there is a lot of sand that is deposited on the higher beach, which he felt
would not be possible with the nets.
John Strapponi asked what was the cost per yard with the Parker system. Dr. Staiger answered
that they were paying $8.50 per cubic yard for the sand, but when you factor in the engineering
and monitoring costs, the price rose to about $20 to $25 per cubic yard. He said that after research
was completed, he hoped there would no longer be a need for monitoring, although that is up to
the state and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services. Mr. Strapponi asked if the cost would be less
than $10 per yard without the monitoring and Dr. Staiger believed it would.
Anthony Pires questioned about the lack of court reporter and Mr. Galleberg and Mr. Hovell
caught him up on this matter.
OLD BUSINESS
a. Approval of Minutes for March 15, 2002 and April 5, 2002
Anthony Pires moved to accept the minutes and William Kroeschell seconds. It passes
unanimously.
b. F_uture Meeting Schedule
Ron Hovell states that the future meeting schedule is to be the second Thursday of each
month in the boardroom at 1:30 P.M.
NEW BUSINESS
a. Beach Cleaning
Chairmen Galleberg introduced the topic of beach cleaning by stating that he wanted to get
into this subject more deeply during this meeting.
Ron Hovell mentioned article from Marco Island Eagle regarding beach raking. The article
recommended that the county not rake as frequently, especially with the equipment currently
being used. He then introduced Shannon Cromwell from the Conservancy of Southwest
Florida to speak on this topic.
Shannon Cromwell - She is here representing the Conservancy to inform the committee that
they are concerned with the amount of beach raking that is currently taking place on Collier
County beaches. They would like regulations to be established to protect the beach ecosystem
and feel the raking should only be done on an as needed basis; for example, red tide, excess
litter or debris, etc.
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May 9, 2002
Ms. Cromwell stated that the Conservancy also recommends that the county set forth
guidelines of"necessity". She handed out an example of necessity guidelines from the
Sarasota County beach clean-up policy.
Ms. Cromwell then suggested that if daily beach cleaning was still desired, that this be done
by hand to remove the litter, rather than using machines. She brought in a bucket of a
dumpster samplings she collected from the four beach sites; Naples beach, Park shore,
Vanderbilt beach and resident's beach form Marco Island. The results were that of 37 pounds
of shell and debris, they were only about five small items of litter found. Ms. Cromwell also
provided some pictures she took which showed a large amount of shells and sand in the
dumpsters.
Ms. Cromwell noted that she has spoken with Marco Island Beach Advisory Committee and
they voted in favor of limiting the number of beach rakings that they perform. She spoke the
EAC who were very receptive with the Conservancy's recommendations. She also spoke
with two members from the county's Natural Resources and they said they would like to work
with her on this matter.
Finally, Ms. Cromwell stated that the Conservancy believes that excessive beach raking is not
aesthetically or economically beneficial and is detrimental to the protection of the beach eco-
system. They recommended that the committee accept the changes stated in the letter by the
Conservancy.
Mr. Pires noted that it would be much easier to implement regulations with some other code
changes or policies, rather than to change the land development codes. He then asked if the
Conservancy is asking for the changes to be made below or above the rack line. Mr. Hovell
answered that a permit from the state is always needed, so he believed state would cover this
in the permit process.
Mr. Hovell brought up the issue of the rock removal plan. If they are going to execute this
plan by other means (not using raking machines), then they would have to get permission
from the state to do otherwise. Shannon Cromwell mentioned that she spoke with someone
form the Florida DEP and they discussed how Collier County has chosen beach raking to be
their form of rock removal maintenance. They informally believed that this method could be
changed and there could be another way to perform this maintenance.
Anthony Pires asked Ms. Cromwell whether she feels that handpicking should be the method
to collect litter so as not to disturb the beach, and she responds affirmatively. William
Kroeschell stated that he sees no need to be raking beaches based on the fact that Sanibel has
shells and people love that beach.
John Strapponi elected to play devil's advocate, and he raised the question of what do tourists
want; are they here for shelling or for walking barefoot on the beach? He then asked if Ms.
Cromwell's samples were one-time or random samples, and she clarified that they were one-
time samples. He asked how can we remove rocks, which is set forth by the mandate, without
removing shells, and also, why is it so terrible to remove the shells? Ms. Cromwell responded
that many of the shells that are raked and discarded contain living animals or are whole shells,
which are desired by shellers of the beaches. She stated there is a reason for the shells to be at
the beach, i.e. inhibit erosion, breakdown into sand, etc.
Ron Pennington asked whether the raking is an ordinance or administrative. Mr. Hovell
believed it has just evolved and is not a written policy, certainly not an ordinance. Mr.
Permington commented that he has seen the beach being raked even when there is nothing on
the beach to be groomed. He stated that he appreciates and concurs with the Conservancy's
recommendations.
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May 9, 2002
Mr. Galleberg said that he would not advocate upsetting the rock removal plan, but he does
feel they have lost sight of the real goal and wants to focus on the issue of cleaning the beach
when there is no cleaning to be done. Mr. Strapponi asked if the beach inspector suggests
where and when raking is to occur, but Mr. Hovell clarified that the three raking machines
will rake everyday whether or not there is a need.
Gary Galleberg stated that this type of raking, overtime, will harm wildlife and the stability of
the beach, which will in the future lead to more renourishing to be done. The committee then
discussed the use of dragging a chain-link fence for grooming the beach. Mr. Galleberg
advised that there needed to be a distinction made between grooming and raking.
Mr. Hovell introduced Ruth McCann, the Executive Director of the Marco Island Civic
Association.
Ruth McCann - She informed that the raking began in Marco when the condo owner's paid
for the beach to be renourished and as part of the permit, they were required to maintain beach
after the renourishment. So, the raking was not intended for rock removal. She had a
problem with changing the beach maintenance schedule due to an unscientific study. Ms.
McCann suggested that if they are considering changing the plan, they should first conduct a
scientific study. In regard to excessive raking, she suggested that it might be helpful to adjust
the depth of the raking.
Dr. Staiger commented that he feels we need to leave the rack line alone and he also agreed
with Mr. Pennington that there is too much raking, especially where there isn't a need for rock
removal. He concurred with the Conservancy's point that the raking should be on an as
needed basis and felt a compromise needed to be made.
Regina Riley - She is from the Marco Island Beach Advisory Committee and was concerned
about the amount of sand compaction caused by machines, which leads to the need for tilling.
She suggested that a compromise be made and to not rake everyday.
Ron Pennington made a motion to request that the staff propose regulations for beach
grooming, preservation, or maintenance consistent with the recommendations from the
Conservancy and to provide the ability of the local entities to deviate depending on their
situation to be considered at the June meeting. Second was given by Mr. Pires. Passes
unanimously.
Mr. Hovell clarified that tilling is a requirement of the beach renourishment permits, which is
very easy to fail. Therefore, they will generally till without even checking. He doesn't think
that the beach raking has anything to do with compaction.
Caxambas Pass (10500)
Ron Hovell informed that back in January, Taylor Engineering was hired to review all the
data and monitoring reports for Caxambas pass, the breakwaters and all Marco Island beaches
and asked them to make recommendations for possible future projects. Taylor Engineering
has a question for the county: What do you want for a beach at the south end of Marco Island?
He described the present beach. Mr. Hovell wanted to develop a process of finding this
answer at this meeting.
Mr. Hovell introduced Ken Humiston ofHumiston & Moore Engineers.
Ken FIumiston - He brought their recent monitoring report for the committee to discuss. He
pointed out an inconsistency in the report dealing with the DEP monument R148. This
monument was destroyed by erosion and reset by two separate surveyors, during which, some
data corrections were overlooked.
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He stated that the data showed that there was a gradual increase in beach width after with the
construction of the segmented breakwater at monument R148. Mr. Humiston is in agreement
that it depends what the county and the citizens would like to have done. They concluded that
the current breakwater would not produce a beach of sufficient width. His recommendation
was to modify the breakwater, where Taylor Engineering had recommended beach
renourishment via trucking.
Mr. Pennington asked how much increase in the breakwater is needed to make a significant
increase in the beach width? Mr. Humiston said that conceptually (there is no design at this
time), it would need another section added to the current three sections, plus they may need to
add some additional rocks in between the segments to reduce wave interaction. Mr.
Pennington then asked what was the estimated yield of beach width, and Mr. Humiston
replied that, conceptually, they could achieve a 100-foot beach ~vidth, which is more than
double the existing beach.
Gary Galleberg summarized by asking if Mr. Humiston felt it was feasible to accomplish this,
depending on the amount of money and community support, and Mr. Humiston replied "yes"
and described how the current breakwater had helped the present beach.
Mr. Pennington asked what was behind the seawall that needed to be protected. Mr.
Humiston answered that it was Marco Point, a collection of high-rise condos. Mr. Pennington
questioned how far were they from the seawall and Mr. Humiston believed about 30 to 4 0
feet. Mr. Pennington stated his initial reaction would be that it would be prudent to this,
purely as a protection standpoint.
Ron Hovell expressed concern whether the extra beach would even be much protection from a
storm surge, and whether it would be worth the half-million dollars to do the project. Mr.
Hovell informed the committee that they only have a permit for beach renourishment and they
have about one million dollars for this budget.
Mr. Galleberg stated that more information is needed in order to make this decision. Anthony
Pires agreed. Mr. Pennington made a motion directing staff to bring additional
information about this project and alternative uses for the money and Mr. Pires
seconds. Passes unanimously.
Mr. Galleberg asked for public comments.
Julie Loeascio - Friends of Tigertail
Ms. Locascio stated it is her belief that the buildings should have never been built so close to
the seawall and she is concerned that taxpayers will be paying for a beach that is essentially a
private beach. William Kroeschell thought that this beach had public access and Ms.
Locascio assured that it has since been fenced off. Mr. Galleberg urged Friends of Tigertail to
write a letter expressing their concern.
Mr. Pires asked if the staff could summarize the reports and point out the benefits of this
project to the public.
Hideaway Beach Renourishment (10502) and Hideaway Beach Access Improvements
(10511)
Mr. Hovell stated that they have approximately $700,000 to spend on Hideaway Beach. He
felt that this could lead to a discussion about project cost sharing. He questioned how
valuable is it to attract tourism to Collier County, taking into account the Tourist Tax Fund.
Mr. Hovell informed that they received a proposal for design and permitting of Hideaway
Beach Renourishment for over $400,000, yet they only have $330,000 in the budget.
May 9,2002
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VI.
VII.
Therefore, he felt that they would probably need to come up with a phased approach. He
questioned the best way to proceed considering this.
Mr. Pennington asked if they were committed to the project. Mr. Hovell replied "no", other
than the fact that people were aware that it is already factored into the budget. Mr. Hovell
questioned whether it is worth spending the money now for design and permitting if they
weren't committed to spend the multi-nfillion dollars needed for the project down the road.
Mr. Pires also expressed concern over whether it would be an appropriate project.
After a short discussion, Mr. Pires felt it would be helpful if the staff could take another look
at the projects and have an analysis and past recommendation as well as a current
recommendation. Mr. Galleberg agreed and stated that he needed more information and a
determination needed to be made on how to handle projects technically on public property,
which are not necessarily very public.
Ron Hovell noted that Hideaway beach was one of the beaches with the most significant
erosion problems and he felt that it was necessary to proceed with the beach renourishment,
but he also needed more information about the access improvements.
Gary Galleberg asked if there was a need to talk more about project cost sharing. Ron Hovell
noted that he just wanted to bring it up to see if they could adapt a policy during this summer.
Mr. Galleberg then stated that at the June meeting, they would look at how the state and
possibly other counties would handle this public/private issue, which he felt would be useful
to them.
Mr. Strapponi asked if aerials could be made available at the next meeting, as well. Mr.
Galleberg thought this would be helpful for the board and for the public.
d. Project Cost-sharing
Addressed previously.
AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION
None at this time.
SCHEDULE NEXT MEETING
Mr. Galleberg restated that the meeting is scheduled for Thursday, June 13 at 1:30 P.M.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. Galleberg called adjournment at 3:30 P.M.