BCC Minutes 03/06/2002 TH (District 2)March 6, 2002
TOWN HALL MEET1NG OF MARCH 6, 2002
OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 7:15 p.m. in
WORKSHOP SESSION at St. John's Catholic Church, 624 11 lth
Avenue, Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
ACTING CHAIRMAN:
VICE CHAIRMAN:
JAMES D. CARTER, PH.D
TOM HENNING
JIM COLETTA
DONNA FIALA
FRED COYLE
ALSO PRESENT:
TOM OLLIFF, County Manager
DAVID WEIGEL, County Attorney
JIM MUDD, Deputy County Manager
LEO OCHS, Assistant County Manager
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TOWN HALL MEETING AGENDA
Wednesday, March 6, 2002
7:00 p.m. - 9:00
St. John's Catholic Church
624 111t~, Avenue
Naples, Fl_
HOSTED BY:
James D. Carter, Ph.D., District 2
Board of County Commissioners
1. Library Grand Opening (John Dunnuck)
2. Wastewater Plant Expansion Update (Joe Cheatham and Roy
Anderson)
3. Beach Renourishment Update (Ron Hovell)
Road Construction Update (Norman Feder)
a. Immokalee
b. Livingston Road- all phases
c. U.S. 41 and landscaping
ds Goodlette Road
5~ Vanderbilt Corridor Study Update (Norman Feder)
6. Vanderbilt Beach Moratorium Study Update (Joe Schmitt)
7. Naples Park Master Plan Update {Joe Schmitt)
March 6, 2002
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
If you would please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
It is a pleasure to see this turnout. I thank each and every one of you
for being here this evening.
My name is Jim Carter. I'm the commissioner for District 2. I
would like to quickly introduce the other commissioners in case some
reason or another you missed us on on Channel 11. But as much as
we're there, I don't see how you could ever miss us.
Starting at my right, our chairman, Commissioner Jim Coletta,
from District 5; Commissioner Fiala from District 1; Commissioner
Fred Coyle from District 4; and our vice chair, Tom Henning,
Commissioner from District 3.
Down at the end you'll see Leo Ochs -- He's our assistant county
manager -- and David Weigel, our county attorney. Swinging back to
my right, to the far right, is Jim Mudd who is our deputy county
administrator and our county administrator, Tom Olliff.
In the audience -- I will have them stand. They will be speaking
to us -- we have Joe Schmitt. I think Joe is no stranger here. We
have Norman Feder, who is our transportation director, and a number
of other staff personnel that are here this evening who will be
speaking to you -- and Tom Wides -- there's Tom. I missed you. I'm
sorry. Tom is in our utilities division. And if I have missed any
others -- and I know Amy Taylor is here, and Miss Susan Murray is
here. And there may be a couple other staff people that I am missing.
I -- I apologize for that, but you can introduce yourselves when you
stand.
We have an excellent executive team. I think we have an
outstanding Board of County Commissioners. And, as our president
says, let's roll. So we will do that tonight.
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March 6, 2002
Now, what are the ground rules? The ground rules are very
simple. We want to hear from you. We will do this in an orderly
process. You may like some things that people say and not like
things that other people say. We would prefer no clapping, hissing,
or booing or throwing of rocks, tomatoes, bricks, or other solid
objects. We did not hear any sawing going out there or see any
gallows, so I think probably most of the elected officials and county
staff are safe, though we have been in some meetings where folks
were pretty upset with us, but by the end they found out that when
they knew all the information, they were feeling a lot better.
So when you have -- we're going to take each topic in order. If
you have a question on it, there is a microphone in the center. We
would ask you to come to that microphone and direct your question
either to the Board of County Commissioners, or we will have it
answered by staff. And then at the end I will come back again, if we
missed anything or there's something you have to say, we'll have you
line up by the microphone, ask your question.
We would please be ladies and gentlemen, dealing with ladies
and gentlemen. If you've already spoken once or maybe twice and
somebody else hasn't had a chance, give them a chance to ask the
question.
As we begin this meeting tonight, I am going to ask County
Attorney David Weigel to make a few remarks about some situations
that are within District 2 so that you don't feel in any way, shape, or
form, that we, the Board of County Commissioners, or staff are
ignoring anything or any question. So, Mr. Weigel, if you would
begin, please.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you very much, Commissioner Chart --
Carter. The -- what I'm going to mention here in regard to --.
VOICE IN AUDIENCE: Is your mike on?
MR. WEIGEL: What I'm going to mention right now is the
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March 6, 2002
same information or advice that I gave the Board of County
Commissioners at a regular Tuesday Board of County
Commissioners' meeting, and I advise them, of course, in regard to
matters in litigation. Two matters of litigation which are important to
the county, important to District 2, and important to the Vanderbilt
Beach or Vanderbilt RT District is a matter called the Aquaport
(phonetic) versus Board of County Commissioners and Collier
County case.
For your information, that is a case that has been filed and is in
federal court. It has four current Board of County Commissioners
members as defendants, as well as former Commissioner Pam
Mac'Kie, as well as Collier County as a defendant in federal court.
It's a damages lawsuit. And some of the staff may, in fact, be
witnesses in the lawsuit.
So I advise staff and I advise the Board of County
Commissioners and I inform the audience that it is preferred, in fact,
requested, that there be no questions and no responses to questions
concerning the Aquaport lawsuit.
The same advice goes for another lawsuit where several
condominium associations of the Vanderbilt Beach and Bay
Association have sued Collier County in circuit court here in Collier
County. That is a lawsuit involving the project -- a development
known as Belaggio Grande (phonetic). That, also, is one in which I
advised the board and the staff members not to comment. And, in
fact, when questions do come during the course of-- of the workday,
we want our office to be advised to assist in that regard.
The same would go for any matters within the district that are
before -- currently before the Code Enforcement Board. And during
the course of the proceedings tonight, if I note that there are questions
or responses, which I would deem appropriate to advise the
commissioners, my collective client, in this regard, I'll do so, and
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March 6, 2002
you'll hear me at that time. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Weigel.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, so that we all understand the
situation.
Now, everything else is great. We can talk about everything
else that I know of we can talk about. If we can't, I'm sure legal
counsel would tell us.
Many of the items you're going to see here tonight have been
going on for some period of time with some progress in District 2. I
am proud to have had the privilege of serving now in my fourth year
as your commissioner, and it's been an interesting time. I now have
four commissioners to work with that have been absolutely fantastic.
We're getting more done, I think, in this last year than we did in the
other times which were kind of a different -- is the nicest thing I can
say about it. But we have gotten some amazing progress, and I thank
them for the support and what they're doing for the county and
assisting all of us in District 2.
The other thing is -- the board will get a big update on this on
Tuesday, but there were some concerns of how we communicate. I
want you to know first and foremost right up front tonight that there
is going to be a major event in Collier County in May. And it's a
water symposium/festival which is a combination of educational
water management, environmental and business executives doing a
county-wide western -- water festival geared toward water
conservation. Every drop counts. We will be doing this as a kickoff.
It will be May 8, 9, and 10. And it will be held at International
College with day programs and evening programs. So we invite all
of you to come and participate for the banquet on Friday night. The
governor has been invited. We're going to honor the school children
who are writing all the jingles and doing the posters. It is a
community-wide effort, and, as I said, this is the beginning.
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March 6, 2002
Now, listen to this if you don't hear anything else. We're
looking for 100 families to volunteer in this program. We would like
to work with you over a year, the next year, to see how much water
you can save in your own personal households. It is a -- we're
looking for a 10 percent reduction. And this is not just a feel-good
exercise. At the end you could get up to a year's free water. You
may get a new washer and dryer. We're going to have some grand
prizes for those families. So whether you're two folks living in a
condo, whether you're living in a house and you got a bunch of
folks -- well, there's new regulations on that -- we want to -- I know
Naples Park would like that. We will -- we -- we look forward to
your participation, and you can reach me. My number is 774-8390. I
have cards. You can call, and it will soon be up on a website, and
Jean Merritt's working on us and everybody else so that you can sign
up for this participation and this program. We'll select a hundred
families, and we'll have some of them at the banquet on May 10th to
do this kickoff.
So I want to let you know this is going to be a real exciting
event in Collier. And it's not only for Collier County. It embraces all
of Southwest Florida. And we have already reserved a website called
InternationalWaterFestival.com because that's where we're going to
go with this. Collier County is going to be a leading area in working
on the conservation, preservation of the most valuable asset we have,
and that's water.
So, with that, I am going to turn it over to the library grand
opening. John Dunnuck unfortunately is down with the flu. But Mr.
Leo Ochs will fill in and tell you, if you haven't been there, you have
missed something. So, Leo, take it away, north library.
MR. OCHS: Thank you, Commissioner Carter. Good evening,
ladies and gentlemen. It's a pleasure to be here this evening. I
kidded some of my colleagues on the staff that I may be one of the
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few staff presenters that are in the enviable position of presenting
some very good news this evening.
Last Friday, March the 1 st, the conununity celebrated the grand
opening of the new north regional library facility. For those of you
that may not know where it's located, it's located at the comer of
Airport-Pulling Road and Orange Blossom Road right in the middle
of a population center in North Naples that within a 5-mile radius
encompasses almost a hundred thousand people. So we think we've
got a library facility for you that's truly a state-of-the-art facility that's
located right in the right spot in the population center of a growing
area of the county, and we would encourage all of you when you get
an opportunity, if you haven't already, to come by and sample the
reading materials, the extensive genealogy department that we have,
the large reference section that we offer to our patrons.
I can tell you just a little bit about the facility. It's a 42,000-
square-foot facility that I'm happy to say came in under budget and
ahead of schedule. It was paid for entirely with impact fees. No
ad Valorem dollars went into the construction. We also were very
fortunate through the Friends of the Library and the Library Advisory
Board to have donations that we used to help us fund some of the
additional reading materials and also helps with some of the
children's programs, the classic film series that's available in the -- in
the 100-seat theater that's part of the new facility.
This facility will also serve as the headquarters of the
administrative staff of your library department here in Collier
County. They were formerly housed down in the Naples branch
downtown. They will now be available and working out of the new
facility at Orange Blossom and Airport-Pulling Road.
The library -- again, the hours, for those of you that haven't had
a chance to visit, the library is open from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. Monday
through Thursday and then 9 a.m. To 5 p.m. both Fridays and
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March 6, 2002
Saturdays. Again, the facility has been very heavily used and visited
in its first week of operation.
If some of the early statistics are any indication of the use we
can expect, we better at the staff level get ready for a lot of visitors.
Let me share just a couple of what I thought were interesting
statistics. In the first 4 days that we were open for business, we saw
over 9300 visitors; more than 10,000 items were checked out of that
library in 4 days; and we issued more than 650 new library cards in
the first 4 days that we were open there at that location. So it's
obviously a very popular spot already.
We invite you to share with us in the continuing series of grand
opening events that are planned throughout the month of March.
Friday evening, for example, in our 3,000-square foot courtyard,
which is part of the new facility, open-air courtyard, there's going to
be a concert there, as well as a concert the following Friday that's
open to the public, no charge. We encourage you to all come by and
get an opportunity to visit with the staff, tour the facility, spend as
much time as you like, and listen to some good music and grab a bite
to eat at the same time.
So that -- that essentially is my report, Commissioner Carter,
and, again, if you have any questions, I'd be happy to respond. And,
again, I invite you on behalf of our Board of County Commissioners
and our library department to come by and visit what we are sure will
be a very important community asset for many years to come.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: I understand that U 2 is going
to be performing there on Friday night?
MR. OCHS: Well, that's kind of a backstage special invitation
only, but yeah.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You're showing your age,
Commissioner.
I have two other announcements. One, there's a nice coffee shop
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March 6, 2002
there where you can have coffee and sit in the courtyard, a great
reading solarium room. And beginning next Wednesday from 9 until
11:30, I will available there -- it will be posted -- to meet with any
constituents.
Now, I'm going to start that off-- I'm going to ask you, again, to
call Trish McPherson to set an appointment. It is always better that
way, but I'm just going to show up for the first couple weeks until we
get in and out and noticed enough so that you know that I will be
there.
I used to be at Greentree. They ran me out of there because they
ran out of space. But now I have a new home; it's the north regional
library. I'll be there Wednesday morning from 9 until 11:30. And,
you know, come in, and we can chat about whatever subjects you
have. There's a coffee shop there. If it's a nice day, we can set in the
courtyard.
Going to the next item, if no questions, is wastewater plant
expansion update. Joe Cheatham is in the audience. The first
gentleman is Joe Cheatham.
MR. CHEATHAM: I wanted to give you an update on the north
county water reclamation facility operation. And, also, Roy
Anderson is here, and he will give you an update on the construction
project.
The north county water reclamation facility located on Goodlette
Frank and Immokalee Road went into service. The expansion part of
the plant was serviced November of this past year. We expanded the
facility from 8 1/2 million gallons per day to 13.5 million gallons per
day. It also can handle a maximum amount of 17.6.
I'm happy to tell you today that the plant's in full compliance.
There is no spills. We're trying to stay out of the news this year, as
we did last year. But we're also working on the slide end of the
project, which will be completed sometime in April or May.
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Also, we're working on a septic -- septic receiving station, which
will be operational, the end of the month and working on designing
equalization tanks for the next coming season.
Another project we're working on is the aquifer storage recovery
project test well going in at Pelican Bay well field. The test well
project just started this past month. And, also, we just completed the
Immokalee Road well field project, which increases our reclaimed
water capability by 3.5 million gallons per day.
We also have -- have interconnected the north and south
reclaimed water system and this past week were able to ship water
from the north down to the south part of the county for the first time.
And, also, in the Naples Park area we are working on relining
sewer pipes, replacing manholes, and odor and corrosion study just
completed. Now I'd like to introduce Roy Anderson to talk about the
improvement portion of the project.
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you very much, Joe. Good evening,
everyone. We basically have three new projects that are in the works
right now. We've got Phase 1 of our expansion fa -- project for the
north plant, the north wastewater plant. And that will bring our
capacity up to 24.1 million gallons. That will be completed in 19 --
rather, in 2005. Construction will start this year, and it will be
completed in 2005.
The cost will be approximately $42 million for the first phase.
We will also be putting in a couple of deep injection wells as part of
that project. We're going to add aeration tanks and effluent filters
and two filter presses to the operation.
Phase 2 will start after the first phase is complete at around
2005, and that will be completed in 2010. And that will raise our
capacity to the ultimate buildout for the area, which will be about
30.6 million gallons a day, and that also involves an addition of tanks
and filters.
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March 6, 2002
The other project I just wanted to mention was, we're going to
be also -- we're commencing right now with the equalization tank
project at the north plant. That will be built at the northeastern --
northwestern part of the site, and that will allow us to take care of
peak flows that happen during our peak season, and that will be well
screened and buffered. We have a good neighbor policy. We'll have
a berm all the way around it with a fence on top so you won't even
know that we're there. So appreciate the opportunity to give you this
presentation. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you, Roy. Any
questions on the wastewater plant expansion or water in general as
far as that -- for these two gentlemen? (No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. You're getting off light, guys.
We're moving down in an area pretty soon where you're going to get
a lot of questions. Hang on.
According to my schedule, now, Commissioners, I'm going to
beach renourishment, and I'm going to road construction update.
Beach renourishment update is Ron Hovell.
MR. HOVELL: Good evening. I'm Ron Hovell, the coastal
projects manager for Collier County public utilities engineering
department.
For those of you who were here in September, you will recall we
were hit by Tropical Storm Gabrielle and lost on an average about 3
feet of sand around the county. We applied to FEMA for cost sharing
on restoring the beaches, and we're awaiting final approvals. But we
hope to receive roughly 2.8 million dollars in reimbursement for our
cost. We have the various permits in hand and notices to proceed to
get back out on the beach and do some restoration, and those of you
who were down in Park Shore may have noticed we put about 9,000
cubic yards back on the beach in January, and we'll be back again in
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November. We've also dredged out Clam Pass to restore the dunes
and the beaches there at Clam Pass Park.
As far as Vanderbilt specifically, due to the rock issue from the
1995 dredging project, dredging and renourishment project, we're
still working with DEP, the Florida Department of Environmental
Protection, to come up with a rock-removal plan. We hope to finalize
that in about the next week and get back out on the beach and -- and
do whatever testing or sifting might be required by them. And,
therefore, next November we expect to be on Vanderbilt to put
approximately -- I think it was in the neighborhood of 40,000 cube
yards back there.
And then I think the bigger issue for this area is last week we
started dredging Wiggins Pass. If you've been out on the water, you
probably noticed the dredge out there. Due to some high winds,
they've had some trouble really getting full board. But probably
starting tomorrow, should the weather cooperate, they will be pretty
much in a throw to the channel, and there will be very restricted
access. They have set up some specific windows of opportunity at 8,
noon, and 4 in the afternoon to let boats pass, and you can contact
them on VHF Channel 16 or 18 if you're out on the water and have
any questions about what they're up to and if there's any water on
either side of them that you might -- might be able to get past that.
And subject to any questions you might have, I'll let the next person
go.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, I'd like to add one thing. If we
get started and we get this rock-removal plan approved here in the
next week, we'll be out there testing, and it will be pretty much
unobtrusive testing. It will be a small scale, and you shouldn't notice
it very much.
If we go into any large operation to remove rock, we will get
with everyone in the homeowners' associations that will be affected.
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March 6, 2002
We'll give you a schedule and let you know just exactly what's going
to be done. Now, our plans are subject to the Florida Department of
Environmental Protection approval, but things seem to be well in
hand, and we should have that rock-removal plan, and I think we will
get at some of the rocks on Vanderbilt Beach the latter part of March
and through the month of April. So that's what we're hoping -- that's
what we're hoping to do. Sir.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
Fay who is at the microphone.
Frank, go ahead, and then I have Jim
Jim, why don't you go ahead and ask
your question; then I'll get Frank up here, and he can ask his. MR. HALAS: Frank Halas. That's spelled H-a-l-a-s.
In regards to the rock removal there on the beach, are we talking
about rocks that were put there previously by contractors, or are we
talking about rocks that were put there by Mother Nature?
MR. HOVELL: Rocks that were put there by the contractor, T.
L. James, back in the winter of 1995, 1996.
MR. MUDD: Frank, what I will tell you is, first of all, there's
no little signature like T. L. James on the rock after it came in. So I
have to tell you if-- if we see a rock and it's above 3/8 of an inch in
our sieve, we're going to take it out. We don't care who brought it
there, okay. If your grandkids dropped it, we'll get it out. And we'll
get out pails, whatever else we find. What we're trying to do is go
down a foot, 2 foot, not go down digging 6 foot and making a mess
out of it.
MR. FAY: Hank Fay, F-a-y.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
MR. FAY: Just a quick comment that dredging Wiggins Pass so
yachts can get in and out seems to me a dubious use of public money.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm sure there are probably others that
may feel differently about that, Hank. I'm not going to go there if no
one else wants to comment.
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March 6, 2002
MR. HOVELL: I'll just make one quick comment that the state
required all the counties around the state to do inlet management
plans for any -- for any inlets that, in essence, interrupt the public
beaches. And with the focus being on the public beaches, the inlet
management plans also tend to focus on the sand as it drifts up and
down the coast. The sand that accumulates in the inlet gets bypassed
by a dredging activity.
Now, you might get into a discussion about, yeah, but are you
just bypassing, or are you also specifically dredging for navigation.
And the end result is, yes, we're doing both, but we are doing a
valuable service for the beaches by bypassing the sand down to the
next beach and let it continue on its way.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Krasowski.
MR. KRASOWSKI: Good evening. Bob Krasowski. I have
just a quick question. Why don't we crush the rocks where they stand
so we don't have to transport them out of there? I'm not sure, I
suspect, that they're mainly made of sandstone, maybe some coral
composite. So with a certain amount of pressure, they should smash
into little rocks without -- you know, you get my idea; right? MR. MUDD: I got it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We have now on our next agenda one
bid for a rock crusher. All right.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: And if I could just mention, if
you're on the beaches, you see a rock, put it in your pocket, take it
home with you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We'll get them one way or another.
Mr. Norman Feder will give us an update on roads.
MR. FEDER: Okay. Mr. Chairman, as known, I'm Norman
Feder, transportation administrator. It's a pleasure to be here this
evening. Like Leo, I'd like to give you some good news about some
of the accomplishments, give you an idea of what's coming up.
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March 6, 2002
Over the last six months I'm very pleased to tell you that ahead
of schedule and under budgets in each case three major road projects
are completed. The first last August was the first phase of Livingston
Road between Radio Road and Golden Gate Parkway. More recently
Pine Ridge Road, the six-laning has opened up, and that's provided
some significant relief. We've got work as well from Airport over to
41, and we're looking what we can do there on that six-lane section
that exists today. And, as well, we opened up a section of Immokalee
Road, 1-75 over to Collier Boulevard over to County Road 951.
In addition to those three projects, we have three other projects
currently under construction and moving forward. You've got
Airport-Pulling Road. That work is progressing between Pine Ridge
Road and Vanderbilt. As well you've got Golden Gate Boulevard
that's continuing. The first mile of that mile and a half, almost, of
that four laning is substantially done. The remaining 3 1/2 miles are
under construction right now. And the last of that is Livingston
Phase 2, which takes that first phase from Golden Gate Parkway and
brings it up to Pine Ridge Road. And, as expected, it will be
completed this fall.
I was asked to go over to Immokalee Road, and I'll give you
some idea what's coming on there besides the one section that I
mentioned that's completed between 1-75 and Collier Boulevard. Our
next section is -- going to be let this fall is the section between
Wilson Boulevard and out to 43rd which is up past Orange Tree.
And that will be let, as I said, this fall, completed towards the end of
2004, over 2 years of construction. As well, next spring we'll be
letting the section from 951 where the current project ends on out to
Wilson.
We'll be, also, moving shortly after that on the section to 6-
laning from 41 over to the interstate. That project, along with a small
project that will be let next year, will be -- at the end of this year
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March 6, 2002
we're letting a ramp improvement much like we did on Pine Ridge/I-
75 to create a better flow there off of that exit ramp.
Livingston Road I mentioned already. Phase 1 completed,
Phase 2 under construction all the way up to Pine Ridge Road. From
Pine Ridge Road up to Vanderbilt and then up from Immokalee is
going to be let late this year or this fall. That construction project
will take about 2 1/2 to 3 years to complete. We'll be done by the end
of 2004.
We will have -- then the other section will be let in about two
months between Immokalee and up to the county line which is the
continuation of the six laning to start about halfway up to the county
line and then four lanes to coincide with what's being developed in
Lee County. That project, as I mentioned, will be a couple months to
be let. It will be completed until the end of 2003.
U. S. 4 ! landscaping -- there's 41 -- of course, it's a state project,
so I'm not going to take credit for its completion nor the credit for its
delay. But what I will tell you, it is complete, and I think your
commissioner deserves some credit because that completion was
after, as chairman of your county commission, chairman of the
Metropolitan Planning Organization and plan -- chairman of the
Regional Planning Council, he wrote a number of letters to FDOT to
get things moving to get that job complete. And as you well know, in
this area, I'm sure they'll complete it the end of this calendar year.
Goodlette-Frank Road is one of four projects -- a couple I've
already mentioned -- the four projects we'll be letting this year. They
will be let in the fall. It is a effort to go from Pine Ridge up to
Vanderbilt Beach Road. It will initially start off a small section of six
laning and then go four laning up to Vanderbilt Beach Road.
The others, as I mentioned, that will be let this year is the
section of Immokalee, 43rd to Wilson, the section of Livingston, both
sections. The first one will be the last phase, if you will, Immokalee
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March 6, 2002
up to the county line, the other one being from basically Pine Ridge
up to Immokalee Road.
The good news is, well, it's beyond the three -- three under
construction, four being let this year, another six projects being let
next year. It's a very, very aggressive program to catch up. We're
trying to do a number of things as well, computerized signal system
timing. About three months out for basically all the signals that are
Airport-Pulling Road west. The next phase is about a year and a half
out from basically Airport-Pulling Road east out to 951. And that
will basically get us out of having a hamster running around in a cage
and get us a system that allows us to adjust time real time and resolve
incident issues as they arise. So that's an important part.
Additionally, we're looking at turn lanes, other improvements to
make sure that people can get around during all this construction.
We have the transit system that has done extremely well, the
CAT system. Ridership has continued to exceed expectations, and
we hope to continue to do that on all fronts. With that said, I'll open
it to any questions you might have.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: As the first person is coming to the
mike, let me comment on the landscaping U.S. 41. This afternoon
the Pelican Bay MSTBU approved the second phase of that
landscaping. It is all paid for. It is going to -- they've got plans, and
they will get that done this summer. That is a cooperative effort
between property owners of Pelican Bay, the taxing authority, and the
private side of that is WCI. So I'm pleased to announce that tonight
all the way up to Vanderbilt now that whole section will be
landscaped.
Yes, sir.
MR. WEGNER: Larry Wegner, W-e-g-n-e-r.
A question: We have this ongoing in the newspaper and
meetings the stop light, the red lights, people running red lights.
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March 6, 2002
Why don't we install cameras like they do in other cities and take
your pictures and send them a bill? How hard can that be?
MR. FEDER: Florida Statutes do not allow that application. I
can't tell you you can use cameras and there will be some for incident
management, but you can't use it as a enforcement item in the State
of Florida. An officer has to see the infraction to have the citation.
So until the statute changes, that's not an option. There are a few
dummy cameras that are used around, and that's not a bad idea. But
actual enforcement via the camera is not what you can do.
MR. WEGNER: Why doesn't our board of commissioners start
something to have the state change this?
MR. FEDER: And I think your board -- and I will defer to
them, but I think your board has already taken steps in that direction
making it clear that they wanted to move to respond to red light
writing, getting that issue out there, noting there's a state statute that
needs to be changed. And I will defer to what goes beyond that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: If I could make a comment
concerning that, we would be delighted to do that. The problem is
that the State of Florida doesn't have a tag on the front of the car, that
the -- the camera must take a picture of the driver and the vehicle and
the tag number at the point in time when they're running the traffic
light. Otherwise it cannot be used in -- in-- in court.
So even if we were able to get the cameras installed, we could
not use them to prosecute people who -- who run the red lights. We
are searching for ways to do this. We -- we tried and -- and found out
we didn't have the authority to -- to increase traffic fines. So we are
encouraging the sheriff and the -- the municipal governments, Marco
and Naples, to enforce our traffic laws more rigorously.
But I'll quite frankly tell you, we have the worst drivers here I
have ever seen anywhere -- anywhere in the United States, and I've
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March 6, 2002
lived in 11 states and 22 cities, and I've never seen anything like it,
and I don't think anything short of very, very aggressive enforcement
is going to solve this problem.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If I may add--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If I may add to that, in District
5 we've got the very best drivers.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, there he goes again.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We -- but the problem is we
don't have any four-lane roads, so we can't drive too fast. But we're
not going to dwell on that because we're very fortunate we have all of
the endangered species.
Getting back to the one issue at hand here -- excuse my humor,
but I do have some fun with this. I know it's getting a little old for
my fellow commissioners, but I have to share it with you. Recently
that one motion came before us and that we passed on the red lights
$500 fine. I thank Commissioner Carter for bringing that forward.
Believe me, it still has a life. But what has happened at this point is
I've been in contact with Ralph Lazzara's office who is the
representative for the eastern part of Collier County, and he has
presently got a bill before the House of Representatives, and it's got
quite a bit of support in the senate, and this is for drag racing. And
it's quite an effective bill because that's a problem that exists. And it
comes in with a very healthy fine, and then it turns into a felony.
And at one point we were trying to get it attached to his bill.
However, after taking a good look at it and realizing it hadn't seen the
sunshine long enough for the public to be able to comment on it, they
decided not to act on that. However, they are going to take a look at
it next year and see if they can include the $500 fine that
Commissioner Carter was -- had the foresight to bring forward and
suggest. And I think in the end we will prevail.
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March 6, 2002
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Anybody else comment on that?
That's kind of where we are with that one. But we are going to get a
report back to the county attorney's office on our initial proposal.
The good news was the next day, if you read that whole column,
it was well done -- it was well done by Denise Sullivan. I believe
she's here tonight. She did comment at the end -- I forget. I think it
was either 20 or 30 red light runners were caught at Pine Ridge -- not
Pine Ridge -- yes, Pine Ridge and U.S. 41 in the morning watch and
the evening watch, and those are the ones that they could catch.
There's a few that got away, I hate to say. We had traffic, but they
managed to get away.
I have noticed out there in driving recently that not so many
folks are trying to beat that intersection because maybe they're not
really sure what we did, and we're going to have more to come on
that, but thank you all for your concern and all of the efforts made by
the commissioners. We'll keep after it. We can always stack the --
what you do through the intersection, particularly if you have an
accident or any other bizarre thing, it will be up to the citing officer
to have some fun with that one.
MR. WEGNER: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
MR. WEGNER: Yeah.
I'm sorry.
I came up here with a quick comment
about bike lanes. I'm glad to see you're putting them in. But the way
you're putting them in is making them suicide lanes. Maybe the
county should probably send someone over to Denmark to take a
look at what bike lanes really look like. They have separate curbs
and --
MR. FEDER: Understood. You have a very different type of
usage. What I will tell you on all of our arterial roadways we are
accommodating both pedestrian, bicyclists every place that we can.
The standards that we are using are state standards and federally
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March 6, 2002
driven -- not Denmark but U.S. driven. They even have -- and you
may well be referring to the one I love, which is on a right-turn lane
where it crosses the bike lane, and your bike lanes are between the
right-mm lane and through. But that's provision by standard. That's
for the professional cyclist.
My advice is, when I put in the 8-foot path for bikes and
pedestrians, be over there. My ideal, very honestly with you, is to try
to get some bike paths on the corridor roads off the arterial system.
And the professional cyclists tell me, no, that they have the right to
the roadway and that's fine, but I'm not a professional cyclist. I ride
my bike. I don't really want to be even on a -- on the facilities.
MR. WEGNER: I'm-- I'm with you on that in terms of alternate
bike paths with maps available and so forth. I mean, that's what they
do in other cities.
Commissioner Coyle's comment about the license plate
reminded me when I was back in Germany last summer, you're going
80 kilometers an hour, and then the car slows down to 45 because in
the middle of every village there's a camera that takes your picture.
Everyone slows down. And it's quite amazing.
You could have two cameras, the first one triggers, the second
one takes a picture at the same time. You get front and back of the
car send them a ticket.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We appreciate your comments,
Mr. Fay, but it's going to end up with the state legislature. We'll put
it on the agenda.
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: I'm Vera Fitz-Gerald for the court
reporter.
I have a question to ask -- well, I have several. But one of them
is on that median, on 111 th they dig it up and bury it and they dig it
up and they bury it. They've been digging it up and burying it for
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March 6, 2002
two years. We went away for a couple of weeks. We came back, and
we said, ',Oh, they grassed it. It's grassed. They're going to stop it."
Then we were driving east on 111 th a few days ago. They did it
again. They dug it up. I wonder when they're going to stop, and are
they going to landscape that?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Good question. I thought we were
using it for indigenous burial ground, but go ahead.
MR. FEDER: Commissioner, I will tell you honestly I have no
idea. There's a utilities portion there that -- there's other issues. I do
not have a specific project on 11 lth, so I'll have to find out exactly
what's going on there.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: No landscaping?
MR. FEDER: No, I don't, to my knowledge, but I'll find out.
There are things that I don't know, but that is one I'm surprised at.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: Thank you.
MR. FEDER: Vera, I'll get back to you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. If there's not any other
questions on that -- that aspect, we will go to the Vanderbilt corridor
study update and -- yes, sir, you have a question, please.
MR. BARNETT: Yes. Of theprevious gentleman. Sir, I'm
Dick Barnett, B-a-r-n-e-t-t, a resident of Tarpon Cove. I'm confused
about Livingston Road. I know you've already commented about the
existing Livingston Road, but is there another one on the planning
board that will be built from -- not built yet but will be built from 41
over to Vanderbilt Drive? And in a previous meeting in this facility
of your-- a workshop of your planners, I saw on a chart board where
there were plans for either two lanes or four lanes in that section.
And someone said that the county is buying up property to maybe
extend that-- Livingston Road from 41 over to 75 on a 4-lane basis.
Is this the same road, or is it two different roads?
MR. FEDER: Actually, two different roads. The -- and it's been
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March 6, 2002
named, for lack of a better one, probably for that confusion, east-west
Livingston is basically, if you will, about halfway between the county
line and Immokalee Road. We have the right-of-way. The county
has the right-of-way basically from Livingston Road, the north-south
Livingston, over to Old 41.
We're in the process right now of finishing up all of the design
to identify what we'd have to do to acquire the right-of-way to 41.
And the longer-range plan and the cost of streets and out a year not in
my five-year work program is to try to build a four or possibly six but
four-lane facility from Livingston Road to 41.
When the developer came in with a project to the other side of
41, west of 41, they provided a little bit of right-of-way in a very
wetland area that is a possibility for the future but nothing that we
have specifically planned for action even in the -- in the later term.
But right now in the five year -- there is no construction in the five-
year. I am trying to acquire that right-of-way so we don't get
precluded between old 41 and U.S. 41.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes. Sir, if you would step to the
mike.
MR. McGRATH: I'm not sure I understand the protocol. I
signed up earlier to speak. My name is Larry McGrath. Is this the
appropriate time?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: If you would like to speak on this
subject, it would be fine. We will also take the signups at the end for
public comment.
MR. McGRATH: Oh, I see.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So we can do it either way, whichever
way you're comfortable.
MR. McGRATH: Well, this will be brief, blessedly.
I wonder if you could distinguish between the landscaping on
the berm in Pelican Bay on 41 and the median work. Did I
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March 6, 2002
understand-- which were we speaking of earlier?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. Thank you for the
opportunity to clarify.
I'm talking about the median beautification in the center of the
highway, not the berm. The berm is entirely up to the Pelican Bay
taxing authority. That was on their agenda today. They had some
discussion. But I believe they had deferred action for a While as they
look at several aspects of that.
MR. McGRATH: Did I understand your comments in the
Pelican Bay Post to be to the effect that that $400,000 has been paid
into the public coffers?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: In which respect, sir?
MR. McGRATH: The landscaping, the much-delayed and now
on a 30-day extension landscaping plan for 41.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I -- I'm not sure I -- well, I will speak
to you afterwards and maybe -- MR. McGRATH: Okay.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- I'm not quite sure I understand your
question. If it's in the center of the highway --
MR. McGRATH: No, no. No, no. I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about the work that's to be done along the east border of
41 between the north and south entrances to Pelican Bay.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That would be a taxing authority
decision. It would not be other tax dollars outside of Pelican Bay
involved with that.
MR. McGRATH: I see. But there was a comment to the effect
that this work had been delayed for some time, that there were two
different versions of what the landscaping might eventually turn out
to be.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That's true, and that's still under
discussion by the MSTBU, your taxing authority.
Page 24
March 6, 2002
MR. McGRATH: I see. Well, were they the ones then that gave
the 30-day extension to have this resolved?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. That is entirely
their prerogative, and that is outside of the framework of the Board of
County Commissioners.
MR. McGRATH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: See. You got off the hook on that,
Norman.
MR. FEDER: Thank you, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Any other question? We will move
to -- Mr. Joe Schmitt is going to give us the update on the Vanderbilt
corridor study.
MR. SCHMITT: Good evening. It's really a pleasure to be back
here. Jim and I were here last month and had such a great evening
that we just -- we're back for more.
But before I talk about the Vanderbilt Beach study, actually,
Miss Susan Murray is going to talk about that.
I'm going to take a moment; update the group on what your
Board of County Commissioners did this week with the rural fringe.
They probably faced one of the toughest decisions that faced any
county, board of county commissioners, in probably the last ten years
that had to do with -- if you've been reading the paper and I would
have encouraged or would encourage that if you don't really -- if you
want to get more in-depth background on it as to what this had to do
as far as the rural fringe amendment, the Naples Daily News carried a
terrific series of articles.
But a week ago Wednesday, your board met. We met out at the
Max Hasse Community Center where we -- we introduced to the
public, again, the rural fringe amendment, and it had to do with the
Growth Management Plan. And then again Monday, we met all day
Monday and again Monday night. And your board, probably during
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March 6, 2002
that time, of the 16 or so hours of hearing the review, probably spent
5 times that in preparing for that and was a tough decision.
What did it really mean? In an effort to comply with the final
order imposed by the governor and the cabinet back in June, June
22nd, 1999, the State of Florida mandated the revision of the Collier
County Growth Management Plan, and that final order directed the
county to conduct a rural and agricultural assessment of the rural
lands and the rural fringe. That final order was to do several things.
And I kind of-- I'm going to just briefly discuss those. But
principally what we were dealing with was lands east of the urban
boundary, which is principally a mile east of 951, about 90,000 acres
that we were dealing with, and talked principally 20,000 --
correction, 29,000 acres that are going to be identified as receiving
lands and approximately 20,000 acres that are going to be identified
as sending lands. And that's -- receiving is where we're pushing or
going to be looking at putting growth to, and sending is where growth
is coming from.
And the principal piece of that is this thing called TDR, transfer
of development rights, and that was the -- that's going to be the
instrument to try and recoup to the sender a value for a loss or a
perceived loss, actually, of development.
But the final order was to identify proposed measures to protect
prime agricultural areas, prevent premature conversion of agricultural
lands to other uses, meaning convert agricultural lands to
development. It also directed -- direCted -- directs incompatible uses
away from wetlands, upland habitat, to protect water quality and
quantity, and to protect listed species and habitat.
We -- the final order assesses the growth potential by area. And
really what it was doing was discourage -- discouraging urban
sprawl, directing incompatible land use away from critical habitat,
which is really what we were trying to do based on compliance with
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March 6, 2002
the -- with the order and we're encouraging development that utilizes
the lands that can support development. And -- and that's where we
were going.
Now, what did all that mean? Well, we really -- what we had
were the hearings, which I talked about on the 27th and then again on
March 4th. We got approval from the board on the evening of March
4th to transmit the final order to DCA, Department of Community
Affairs, for their review. That is basically an ORC review, as it's
called, of objections, recommendations, and comments. We expect
to receive their comments back sometime early June, and we will
propose for the final adoption of that plan to the board on the evening
of June 12th.
And I just wanted to take a little bit of time just to introduce, so
that you could understand, and if you have any questions, I'll try and
address those. Hopefully they're not too probing, but I can try and
address those between us and the board. And, Commissioner, I
thought I'd take time just to address that to this -- to this group. Even
though it doesn't impact this group, I wanted to stress that -- that this
county and the board is looking at growth. And one of the -- one of
the issues was this thing called the rural fringe. Following the rural
fringe, we will look at the rural lands where we're dealing principally
with the lands further east towards Immokalee and out east as we
approach the Everglades.
That -- this process went through several public betting, over 54
rural fringe meetings and on through up until the March 4th. Now,
the amendment, I want to stress, does not -- and it does not expand
the urban boundary. It does not reor -- re -- impose any re --
rezoning. It does not -- and I'll stress does not -- take away the right
to build a home on any existing parcel, and it's not taking of any
lands. And I -- there was a lot of misconception out there as to that.
What it really is trying to do is -- is give the county some power
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March 6, 2002
and authority to -- to comply with the governor's order so that we can
meet the requirements of the final order to protect the environment
and, yet, to use the word "grow," and grow in a managed, smart
manner. And I don't know, Commissioner, if you want to follow up
on that. I wanted to take time just to introduce that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Schmitt, I think you did an
excellent job with that. It does affect everybody in this room, and I'll
tell you when it affects you the most, we don't do it right, we get
lawsuits. And if we get lawsuits, it comes out of the general fund,
and that is your property tax dollars. And I sure would rather not
spend those dollars defending lawsuits. I would rather spend them on
getting parks, roads, and everything else we need in this community.
So if we do this right, we won't have a problem. And this is the first
phase because we've got to go back through it again because there
will be a whole review by DCA on it, so it affects all of us. And I
compliment this board on doing what old boards started two -- over
two years ago starting down the path to get it right, and that's what
we're trying to do. Commissioner Henning.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you. It -- it does affect
the people in this room and-- that live in this area in a positive way.
Something very important to Commissioner Carter is water recharge
area. And we have increased that quite a bit in the rural fringe area,
and we also made opportunities for more green space, wetlands
preservation, and we did not increase the population buildout in
Collier County. And that -- I know that isn't very important to people
in this -- in this room.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
MR. SCHMITT: Okay.
Okay. Thank you very much, Joe.
We're going to move into the next
subject, since I've just finished that political announcement for the
tough decision that they had to face.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir.
Page 28
March 6, 2002
MR. SCHMITT: We're going to talk first about the Vanderbilt
Beach moratorium, and I'm going to ask my interim planning services
director, Miss Susan Murray, to talk specifically about that issue, and
we'll address the questions then pertaining to that study. And after
that Amy Taylor will talk more specifically in the area about the
Naples Park master plan updates. Susan.
MS. MURRAY: Thanks, Joe. I'm Susan Murray, planning
services department. Just real quickly, can I get a show of hands of
residents who might live along Gulfshore Drive just so I can have an
idea? Oh, great, wow. That's great. So you're -- you're familiar with
this.
For the rest of the audience, if you'll just kind of bear with me,
the folks on Gulfshore Drive I wanted to give a little bit of history of
the area and the development moratorium so people understand
what's going on. Again, this is just a status report on the moratorium
study for property generally affecting properties with a residential
tourist or RT zoning designation, and those are properties that are
located along Gulfshore Drive on both the east and west sides north
of Vanderbilt Beach Road and south of 11 lth.
Let me give you a little bit of background. The interim
development controls -- or you might be more familiar with the term
"moratorium" for Vanderbilt Beach Residential Tourist Zoning
District was adopted by the Board of County Commissioners on
January 9th of this year. The duration of the moratorium is for one
year.
And if I could just give you a little bit of history of the area and
why the moratorium was adopted by the board, a portion of this area
along Gulfshore Drive was subdivided in the early 1950s, and the
Residential Tourist Zoning District was established in the county
ordinances back in 1963. The area subsequently was developed with
single-family residences and smaller scale multifamily uses. I know -
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March 6, 2002
- I'm sure most of you have driven up the road. You realize that it's
located on a narrow peninsula winding to the Gulf of Mexico, the
Vanderbilt lagoon. It's served by Gulfshore Drive, which is a two-
lane thoroughfare. And over time the area has been developed and
redeveloped with some multifamily high-rise and resort hotel.
Due to the traffic generated by these uses and the need to protect
the view corridors of the gulf and the lagoon, the need to prevent
further canyonization of the area -- and that may be a term you're not
familiar with. Canyonization kind of occurs where you have a
narrow road and you start getting high-rise buildings going up on
both sides of the road and create this tunnel or canyon effect. And
the imposition of additional high-rise structures on such a narrow
street, the board determined that the assessment was necessary to
consider and adopt new development regulations to guide
redevelopment in the area. And so the objective of this study and the
purpose and intent is really to restrict most of the development and
redevelopment in the area, and that's the purpose of the moratorium,
to allow the Collier County Planning Department to conduct an
assessment of the area and determine the appropriate development
standards of the area by way of establishing which will more than
likely be an overlay district. And that is basically a set of
supplemental development regulations that lay on top of the
underlying zoning district, which I mentioned was RT or residential
tourist.
An overview of the process, the study will include public
involvement mostly in the form of public meetings. I anticipate it
will be more of a visioning type of process where we'll invite the
public to come in and tell the staff what they would like to see in the
area and what they would not like to see in the area.
We're also -- we will also be conducting data collection. We'll
be doing traffic -- traffic projections and traffic counts in the area,
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March 6, 2002
and we will be analyzing the development standards in the area and
then looking at the possibility of proposing new development
standards to the board for adoption.
Public comment will be solicited primarily -- primarily during
workshops and public hearings. And, again, our expected outcome
will be enhanced development standards specifically design--
designed for the area in response to the desires expressed by the
residents of the area and in the best interests of the public.
Our time frame, we anticipate our first public meeting to be held
mid to late April. We will be advertising that in the form of
advertisements in the newspaper and over Channel 11 and any other
way we can get the word out to the residents of the area.
And, most importantly, also, to people who don't necessarily
live along Gulfshore Drive, I'd love to see some participation from
the residents of Naples Park. This is a public street. This affects
everybody, and it would be wonderful to have your participation.
And we would anticipate that we would have some supplemental
development regulations as a result of the meeting and our staff
analysis to the board in December of this year.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, Susan.
In terms of announcing the meetings, I want to make sure that
the Vanderbilt, Venetian Bay, that you give us more than one name
so that we make sure you get it several times so that I'm sure it will
travel well in your community, but I don't want to take any chances.
Miss Fitz-Gerald is here as one of the associations from Naples Park,
Vanderbilt Beach. We want to make sure that, you know, you are
notified. Carol Wright's in the room. We just want to make sure
you-all get the announcements, and we want you to participate.
That's why it was set up, and that's why it's so critical. And we will
work through this.
Again, I know it starts in April, and we got through to January
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March 6, 2002
the next year, right --.
MS. MURRAY: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- to do this. We're going to
encourage -- get as many inputs from the public while you're here.
There is always this statement, well, we go home, that's when you-all
make the decisions. The government county -- I'm sorry.
Government does not shut down when you're gone, nor did-- where
you're going back to did your governments there cease to operate
when you were in Florida. So I am asking you, please, work with us.
And if you have other ideas that we can solicit public input, we will
listen to that, and we will encourage that.
MS. MURRAY: If anybody wants to send me their e-mail
address if they're not going to be here after March 31 st -- I know a lot
of people go home after April -- I'll be happy to notify you, be happy
to solicit your input anytime during the process. You can e-mail me.
You can call me, whatever you like.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: Susan, did you bring business
cards?
MS. MURRAY: I walked out without them.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Get your names and everything to me;
I will get them to Susan.
MS. MURRAY: And if you go on a tour of planning services
department website, my e-mail address and name is on there. It's
Susan Murray.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. I have one gentleman at the
microphone. And if you want to get in line, speak, ask questions on
this, why, please do so.
MR. BING: My name is Richard Bing, B-i-n-g, like Crosby.
And I am the president of Vanderbilt Gulf Side Condominium
Association and a recent director to Vanderbilt Beach and Bay. And
now I work for Carol Wright as well.
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March 6, 2002
As you mentioned communication -- and a lot of people leave
obviously April 15 -- but this meeting itself, which we really do
appreciate all of you coming up here -- don't judge our traffic
congestion by when you leave here tonight in coming --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We don't have any traffic problems
here. Commissioner Coyle said all we get is driver education
problems.
MR. BING: But we didn't learn, in our case, about this until
over the weekend by e-mail from Carol that we were going to have
this meeting tonight. Now, surely somebody had to make these
arrangements earlier. I know in the case of our own condominium
association on 144 units that there are a lot of conflicts tonight that
we would have had a lot more people here, but we didn't get any
signs up until yesterday morning.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: It's a great turnout, and I want
to thank you for being here tonight. Your -- your comments are --
will be well taken, and we -- we do need some guidance in this
Vanderbilt corridor study.
MR. BING: The first question that I have relates to a general
question. I realize we took a lot of fun out of the meeting when the
county attorney said that you could not respond to certain things that
are of obvious interest to most of us here. But maybe --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We can't, but you can say anything
you want.
MR. BING: Maybe you can respond in a general way to -- to
this question: What authority does the county attorney have in terms
of approving either building permits, PUDs, or site development
plans, etc., whichever you would like to address, in a generic way?
You don't have to make it specific to any of these projects that we're
talking about now -- either in the past and contrast that to what it is
now and to what you anticipate in the future.
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March 6, 2002
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That's an excellent question, sir. I
think Mr. Schmitt might like to respond to that. Mr. Weigel might
want to respond to that, and whether our executive administration to
my right wants to, I think these two gentlemen will probably give you
a pretty good overview on that.
MR. SCHMITT: As the administrator for community
development environmental services, I am responsible for
implementation of basically two documents which to me it -- it is
public law: The Land Development Code and the Growth
Management Plan. That-- those for-- for lack of a better term, are
our Bible for making decisions.
Now, when you talk about the approval process for a -- either a
PUD, a planned unit development, or a site development plan, SPD,
the site development plan comes in -- it's usually naturally after the
planned unit development has already been approved, but let me
start-- I'll start with the PUD.
The PUD goes to the board. The staff reviews it for compliance
and consistency, other aspects that where we review it, and then that -
- that proposal is sent to the -- the board, goes through -- sometimes it
will go through the Environmental Advisory Council. It will go
through the planning commission, both-- both of those councils,
either the environmental council. And the planning commission will
make recommendations to the board, and we will present that to the
board. They are the final say in the matter on the planned unit
development.
Site development plan usually is after the fact, after the PUD is
approved, and those site development plans are approved by my staff.
So the process is pretty -- as far as from a standpoint of-- it's
codified in our laws, in the county laws is how we do this and go
through the approval process. I can't speak from the attorney
perspective. I'll pass to David for that. But from a perspective of my
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March 6, 2002
staff in the reviewing process, now there are -- if there is a -- a
change to a PUD, there are some parameters to define whether it is a
substantial change which would require it to go back before the board
for approval. If the insubstantial change and there's criteria,
thresholds that -- for us to determine whether it's a substantial or
insubstantial change, if it's insubstantial, we will approve it at our
level. And it's -- if it's deemed a substantial -- a substantial change, it
will be staffed back before the board. And that goes through the
public letting process, and the public is notified and can certainly
present their opinions.
I guess -- I know where your question is going, and you're
certainly leading to a specific issue. I don't know if David's at -- at
liberty to talk about that specific issue, but I'll let him do it in general
terms.
MR. WEIGEL: I can tell you generally that I'm not going to
talk about the issue.
MR. BING: Could I ask a second question? It relates to the
moratorium more directly. And that is precisely what you struck on
when you said, well, we're going to start -- probably the first meeting
will be April 15. As you know, a lot of us pay a lot of real estate
taxes, but we may not be here all year long. So we do have
associations and organizations, obviously, to look into and maybe do
a better job when we did when we were sleeping when La Playa was
approved and other things. But, as you know, we've been a little bit
more active. And we don't want to waste money on county attorneys.
We'd like to have them on the roads. But if you maybe listened to us
earlier, then we won't have to do those kind of things in the future.
But my point is, in this process we have an organization -- and I
somehow drew the short straw -- that if you just work with each of us
individually asking for e-mail addresses, etc., it doesn't give us an
opportunity to interface with each other and become educated and
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March 6, 2002
intelligently respond because we don't know the lingo and the rules
and so forth and the dimensions that we could get into.
So we would like to work more on a collective basis, if you will,
with a committee that represents all the people here, at least in the
Vanderbilt Beach and Bay area. I'm not sure I could say north of
there, but the area affected by the moratorium anyway, as far as
inputs are concerned into the process of revising the Land
Development Code in the future.
So we would like to hear some response to how we can
effectively do that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You're asking a couple questions, sir.
I'll go to the one because it's -- you're moving into another arena.
The Board of County Commissioners, under the street and
planning commission, made a commitment at the last board meeting
that we're going to review all the Land Development Codes. This
will take us two to three years, Mr. Olliff, somewhere in that time
frame. We're committed to do that.
And, you see, we used to be locked down and only have two
Land Development Code sessions a year. One worked well for you
because it was in the height of season, and the other happened in
June. We're shifting all of that now. We have no restrictions on how
many we can do a year. If we have to do three or four reviews a year,
we'll do it. So that's going to make it a more frequent process.
Secondly, under everything that comes in front of us now, like,
through the PUD and all these changes, there is a required public
notification signs on property, big signs that weren't there before.
And so there's been changes in the process. And I know there's a
couple things that are going to go on, one, the commercial PUD up at
Wiggins Pass and U.S. 41. I have met with folks there. And when
that comes back through the review process, A, there will be more
standards now in place, tougher standards than there were in the past.
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March 6, 2002
Number two, it's going through a total review, and we will have a
great opportunity to, frankly, determine what will be allowed to be
built in there, far more attention than has ever been paid to those
things in the past. And, actually, it started with what we did up on
Pine Ridge and Goodlette Road with Commissioner Coyle and the
review that we just went through recently. We got it down to very
few things will be allowed to be used in that location.
These are just points I'm making, is that you go forward.
There's even another one where there's a marina that's changed hands.
You know, those folks may think that they come to us, it's a walk in
the park. I can tell you it's like a walk in the park like eastern
Afganistan because this board is going to look at each one of these
through the staff reviews, public reviews, public hearings, and then
reach some conclusions about how we manage the growth and that
we manage it in a framework that fits with community character that
we spent so much time, energy, and effort on so that in the future we
will all have had a major input on what happens. And that doesn't
take away the property right of the individual who owns it. It just
says, when you invest in these, understand that this is a process you
need to go through, and this is the criteria you must follow.
And if you don't to want play that game, I wouldn't go out and
buy the property. So that's where we're coming from in the future,
and I don't think I stepped on anything that is currently where I've
been advised by legal counsel not to talk about. (Applause.)
MR. BING: You have Joe maybe follow up on the process
question that I asked about as it related to our--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes, sir, I think that's an excellent one.
I think that he can talk to that and --.
MR. SCHMITT: The process --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- of how, because in the summer
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March 6, 2002
they're so spread out and even with e-mails that they really are
looking for warm ways to interact with us.
MR. SCHMITT: Well, I mean, this is a real issue of what you're
talking about is the group dynamics and the synergy that takes place
if you-all were here, and I know that exists.
We have two options, as I see it. Well, first of all, we want to do
it in April, and I -- and I -- we have talked -- Susan and I have talked.
And what we're looking at is this thing called, like, a design- -
almost a facilitator who would move us through the process so that
we could get your feedback or input as to what we want to do and
what part we want to look at so it would be a facilitated process.
Now, if that really is not a good time -- and I -- I got to tell you, I
know the board told us to do this in January. But, frankly, there's a
lot of reasons that we're just -- we have a lot of work in-house that
we're trying to deal with. And we knew we had a year to do this
project. And we talked about this. Jim and I talked about this. We
were here last month. And we -- we faced the questions concerning
this. And I understand the synergy that's lost because the group is not
here.
Of course, our electronic age today, we could do that, and there
are programs to do that, Lotus Notes or other programs, that are
inter -- interactive as far as deal -- dealing over the wire, or you do it
through video teleconferencing. All those kind of things take a lot of
time or effort or expense. The only other alternative is wait until you
return and do it in the fall. And that just delays us in-- in providing
this process.
Now, that meets your objective, of course, because we would
only further delay the moratorium and -- and we understand that. So
that's something you would have to bring -- I can't make that
decision. I have to defer to the board, but I understand what we're
doing is -- is going through this process. And -- and the issue is that
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March 6, 2002
the loss of this synergy that -- that will not be here because the group
is not meeting and the group dynamics that's involved. So other than
maintaining through electronic, which is faster than snail mail, the
only other option is to try and do it at a later date.
MR. BING: Or we could be doing it right now.
MR. SCHMITT: Well, yes, we could.
MR. BING: Is it really a viable option that we could extend the
moratorium until we are collectively able to respond?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Sir, I cannot respond because we have
not had a formal presentation to the board and discussion on it. I
don't know what the legal implications are on that. What I would
suggest to you, though, is do you have a standing committee on this?
That would be a good way, because if you have a standing
committee, perhaps teleconferencing in other ways, we might get
there within the time lines we have to operate. But we need to find
out, A, who is your standing committee; B, you need to meet with Joe
Schmitt; C, if he needs to bring it back to the Board, he will take it
back to the proper channels.
MR. SCHMITT: What are we looking at for a real drop-dead
date, to use the term, as far as when it appears that most people will
leave? I mean, we're talking April 15th, and -- and most of the folks
are out of town and-- and--
MR. BING: Let's have a show of hands. But I think Easter is
about the end of the peak.
MR. SCHMITT: Okay. Too early? So we -- we were really
looking at doing this in April, and we would probably get at least
through the first meeting, because what we're going to be looking at
principally in the meeting in the design is scope the breadth and depth
of the study and, naturally, get the concerns. And then we go back
and analyze. And then principally, as Susan said, what we're looking
for is an overlay, zoning overlay, for the Vanderbilt Beach corridor,
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March 6, 2002
and that really is what the ultimate -- it will deal with just that small
piece of-- of Vanderbilt Beach.
MS. KETCHAM: Hi. Diane Ketcham, K-e-t-c-h-a-m. I am the
vice president of Vanderbilt Beach & Bay Association, so now you
have two names to contact, as well as the president of City of
Vanderbilt Beach Fund.
In regard to what Dick is saying, I think we're of the mindset of
when the tourists are here. But we're homeowners, and I think most
of the homeowners stay through April, am I correct with that, so I
think April would be okay. I leave that to you but I --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We'll leave that to have your own
internal discussion. As long as you get back to us, if we've got the
end of April, that changes what we can do.
MS. KETCHUM: And Dick is the head of our committee,
Vanderbilt Beach & Bay Association, for the moratorium. So this --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We need for you to give us, Dick, the
names of your committee, who the players are, e-mails, phone
numbers, cell phones, anything that you can give us.
MR. SCHMITT: Dick, I'll give you my business card, and you
can certainly contact me and we'll -- we'll make sure that I have -- I
have a point of contact. I already have Diane's e-mail, and we'll
make sure we get this -- we'll get this.
MS. KETCHUM: I may have to become -- get an unlisted e-
mail. Is there such a thing?
MR. SCHMITT: You sent me a message.
MS. KETCHUM: I send everybody e-mail messages in the
world. I want to personally welcome you-all to our little northern
piece of paradise. Obviously, Commissioner Carter is here all of the
time, but we're delighted to have you here. I have to give you a little
bit more of a frustration that we haven't packed the house. When
Mr. Schmitt and Mr. Mudd were here at our annual meeting, we had
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March 6, 2002
175 people, and they-- they heard a lot of frustration.
What happened -- and I'm not sure how -- we only found out
about this last week by a flyer going to Carol Wright. Frank Halas
never even got a flyer. He's the president of Vanderbilt Beach
Property Owners' Association. He heard through the past president.
We can't understand it because we don't know when you booked
the hall or when we booked the time of the commissioners, but it had
to be more than a week, and we would have loved to put this in our
newsletter. We would have loved to have everybody in our district,
as well as the commissioners, come here and hear all this. So may
we ask in the future that there is more notice, that you put a public
notice in the paper, that you do as Mr. Feder did for the Vanderbilt
Drive corridor study? He had a big blinking sign on Vanderbilt Drive
saying meeting tonight, meeting tonight, St. John's. I mean, you
could have done this. It's a town hall meeting, and you basically
haven't invited a lot of the town --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Will you do signs, Mr. Feder? You've
got to help us with that.
MS. KETCHUM: There was a sign, absolutely, and he will
acknowledge that.
So, anyway, that's our frustration, Commissioner Carter.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I thank you for that. We'll
work on it, and, yes, we probably knew sooner than you did. In the
future that's duly noted. Remember, this is a total Second District
town hall meeting, so we've got a lot of other associations of people
here.
MS. KETCHUM: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: But we will get the information to you
sooner.
Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you for making a comment.
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March 6, 2002
I had the same problem with my town hall meeting. And we didn't
realize until four days before that nobody seemed to know about it.
And the night before -- no. I'm sorry. The day before we started an
e-mail chain going throughout East Naples just trying to let people
know.
So I think what we're going to have to do is, even though they
had two notices in the paper-- and they had two notices for this, and
we put fliers out -- somehow, even though we were doing that, it
didn't seem to get to the people. So we're going to have to find a new
way.
MS. KETCHUM: I'll tell you, I didn't see the two notices in the
paper.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Maybe it was on the editorial page.
MS. KETCHUM: We're delighted you're here. We wish there
were more of our people here, and please come back.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: This is the best turnout we've had at a
town hall meeting since the last one we had up here so -- but thank
you.
MS. KETCHUM: Now, I have to also say a few things. It's
very frustrating for us that the very first speaker we hear from is the
county attorney saying basically that not even we can ask questions
about the lawsuits that are involved. We should be able to say what
we want and if our attorneys say it. Obviously you can say whatever
you wish or not say regarding what your attorney says. But it just
sets a tone. And I feel it's a little frustrating that we start right off
with the county attorney saying we're not going to talk about
something. So I make that comment.
I also make the comment that I hope in the future we can talk
about different things. What's happened now is that most of us who
are involved in the lawsuit come to speak to you on several subjects
or send you e-mails, and some of the legislators here immediately
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March 6, 2002
say, "We can't talk to you. We're forwarding this on to the county
attorney." There are a lot of other issues that we're concerned about.
This moratorium is very important to us. We're very appreciative
that you passed it. We're concerned with some things that are going
to take place during it and how it's going to end and -- and what's
going to happen with lawsuits perhaps from developers after that, but
we need to have the communication between our associations and the
county commissioners on many subjects. So I hope that we can still
contact you --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Sure. Anything outside of a lawsuit,
any commissioner here -- this is my district, in particular. I'll respond
to it, Miss Ketchum. But I can't-- if you get into too specific areas, I
can't do that. But I can talk about everything else. Do you want to
talk about the moratorium? Fine.
MS. KETCHUM: We definitely want to talk about the
moratorium.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I can talk with you all day long, as
anybody here can, but you've just got to be careful what you ask us.
And if you don't mix apples and oranges and stay out of the apple
barrel, we'll be okay, because then we can discuss it all.
MS. KETCHUM: Well, we're all concerned how we got in the
apple barrel, and we'll be discussing that in the future. But tonight I
think one of the most important things for the Vanderbilt Beach
people is the moratorium and how we handle it and hopefully
bringing down the height -- I'm delighted to hear Susan Murray say
we need view corridors. I know the people in Naples Park, the
people on Vanderbilt Beach Estates, they want to be able to see the
gulf. We'd like to keep it the way it is, so hopefully we will work
together and get something really good out of it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That's the purpose of the study. We
want to hear it all, and then we can reach some conclusions. Thank
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March 6, 2002
yOLI.
Miss Carol Wright, president of Vanderbilt Beach and Bay.
MS. WRIGHT: They always take all my thunder, and I love it
because you know I hate to speak. My name is Carol Wright, W-r-i-
g-h-t. I have a question for Mr. Schmitt or Susan.
During the moratorium, if somebody wants to renovate the
inside of their unit, I have been told by a contractor today he cannot
pull a permit because of the moratorium. That is not my
understanding. He's been there two or three times. He even tried to
pull a permit to do somebody's unit on Vanderbilt Drive and was told
they cannot give him a permit because of the moratorium. And I told
him that was wrong.
MR. SCHMITT: That's the first that's even been brought up.
There should be no prohibition for doing any interior remodeling or
any interior work. The moratorium is basically prohibited --
prohibits any exterior work, enlargement, extensions, or otherwise on
exterior portions of the building.
MS. WRIGHT: Exactly.
MR. SCHMITT: If he encountered that, I'll -- I'll take that back
to my building department and --.
MS. WRIGHT: Permitting department.
MS. SCHMITT: That's an interesting -- that's the first I've heard
of that. It had never even been brought up.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Carol, I thank you for bringing it up
because this board worked diligently to protect your property rights
so you could do those things.
MS. WRIGHT: Exactly, and that's what I remembered.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I remember Commissioner Coyle and
myself-- we can't talk to each other, except on the dias. When we
got done with the thing, we figured we covered everything from
natural disasters or you want to put on a new roof, you've got a right
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March 6, 2002
to do all that.
MS. WRIGHT: Thank you.
MR. SCHMITT: Yeah. It would even -- it doesn't even prohibit
some accessory structures. I mean, if you -- if somebody had a home
and wanted to add a pool or a lanai enclosure, those kind of things,
there's no prohibition against that.
The prohibition is that you had to ask for some kind of a
variance that -- that was going to deviate from the current Land
Development Code. Then that-- that's where the prohibition lies.
We'll -- I'll check on that. It might be something within the staff.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Beach moratorium, Mr. Lydon.
MR. LYDON: I'm Dick Lydon, minister without a portfolio. I'd
just like to hear from Joe and Susan and you-all up there at the front
table that part of that moratorium is going to pay serious attention to
a serious problem that we have, and it's called beach access. Please,
give us the assurance, those from Naples Park, those who live
throughout the area, except right on the beach, let's be sure that that's
part and parcel of that corridor study. Thank you.
MR. SCHMITT: I'll answer from my previous experience as a
district engineer and the Army Corps of Engineers. Beach access is
critical to apply for -- for federal funding. So there's -- from that
perspective alone, we certainly don't want to slam the door to any
federal funding for beach renourishment or any -- any of those
activities because FEMA will not provide the dollars. So I -- there's
certainly no intent from our perspective of closing off any of those
beach access.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I think what he's asking is
we want more beach access.
MR. SCHMITT: More beach.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: And that's up to the board of
commissioners.
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March 6, 2002
MR. SCHMITT: That's up to the board and up to the county for
purchasing the property.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That would be correct. And we can
look at the study because you may identify possible areas for some
study. When it comes down to buying land, that's a different deal.
MR. SCHMITT: Well, the other -- the other piece would be is
that if we identify the easements across private property, and -- and it
certainly could be part of the study.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: One other element relates to the
Land Development Code. As we go through the process of revising
it, it's entirely possible that one of those revisions will be a
requirement that any developments that are approved in the area
provide for public beach access, just as we are requiring that
developments pry -- provide roads through their property now.
MR. STEVENS: Jack Stevens. Is there anything on Gulfshore
Drive or Naples Park that would qualify for a PUD?
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: No.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Not that I know of, sir.
MR. STEVENS: Doesn't a PUD have to have a certain amount
of acreage, give up -- give up land for a park to get a closer density?
MR. SCHMITT: Yes. We're talking --.
MR. STEVENS: So we have to be concerned, in other words, in
our area about someone coming along with a PUD.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I wouldn't think so.
MR. STEVENS: I wouldn't either.
MR. OLLIFF: Unless--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Olliff, you better speak to that. I
don't want to get in trouble with that.
MR. OLLIFF: The only-- the only issue -- and in certain areas
that I've seen historically where there are redevelopment
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March 6, 2002
opportunities, you will see occasionally somebody amalgamate
pieces of property in order to come in and get PUD zoning. So I can't
say that it's precluded simply because of the size of the parcels today.
That is an opportunity that somebody may have in the future if they
buy up parcels and put them together to create the minimum
threshold of land necessary to get PUDs zoned.
MR. STEVENS: So there is no minimum amount of acreage?
In other words, with 2 acres they could qualify for a PUD?
MR. OLLIFF: No, sir. What I'm saying is there is a minimum
acreage and if somebody accumulates enough parcels contiguous to
each other in order to meet the threshold, that they can come in and
request a rezoning. But obviously in that case you're going to be
notified. There's going to be a public hearing, and everybody is
going to get to participate in that process.
MR. STEVENS: Okay. And access, you know everybody and
the rules know that the park right at the end of Gulfshore Drive is
public access to the beach; right?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Where are you talking about? In the
state park?
MR. STEVENS: Wiggins State Park.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You can go in through the park.
That's correct, sir.
MR. STEVENS: Also, who has the final say so on approval of
plans ready for permit in the planning department?
MR. SCHMITT: Who has the -- in the planning department
when a plan comes in, the building permit, we're talking either
residential or commercial?
MR. STEVENS:
MR. SCHMITT:
department has that.
MR. STEVENS:
Yes.
I mean, principally my building review
Can't -- can't the attorney override a -- a
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March 6, 2002
refusal of a permit that has variances on it that have not gone through
the process?
MR. SCHMITT: I'm -- I'm not an attorney. I'm not going to
pretend to be one, so I won't answer that.
MR. STEVENS: Because every time I come to a meeting, it's
always the attorneys that are involved, because nobody at that time
was going by the Land Development Code. You know what I mean?
So what I'm asking is can the attorney override the refusal? That
does not meet the Land Development Code a hundred percent.
MR. WEIGEL: Joe, I'll help you there.
MR. SCHMITT: I'm going to defer to the county attorney.
MR. WEIGEL: I'll respond. Perhaps there is some limitation
here because these are part of the allegations in the most recent
lawsuit by the condominium associations against the county relating
to the county attorney advice or whatever the role of the county
attorney is and -- and land use review and approval on applications
that come to development services offices.
What I can tell you is this: The county attorney reviews
documents for legal sufficiency. We review all materials that
ultimately go to the board of county commissioners for review and
signature by the chairman that may be approved by the board of
county commissioners for legal sufficiency. And as counsel to the
board of county commissioners and as counsel to the -- we call it
corporate client, the large client, of the board of county
commissioners, the collective board, meaning the county managers,
positions, and staff, we do, in fact, respond to requests for legal
services concerning contracts, drafting of ordinances, and, in fact,
yes, legal sufficiency or questions of interpretation of the law.
We do not make the decision for the staff that have, in fact,
through the Land Development Code or any other rules of the
county -- we do not interpose our decisions in place of the staff. The
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March 6, 2002
staff makes the decision, and we will, in fact, respond with questions
and advise. That's what I can tell you at this point. MR. STEVENS: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you, sir. We have two
other presentations, ladies and gentlemen. And before we wear you
out, I would like to get to those, and then we can go to the public
comments.
MR. SCHMITT: Okay. I'd like to introduce Amy Taylor.
Amy's going to give a presentation on the Naples Park community
plan. She has some handouts with some great pictures, and I don't
know how many you have.
MS. TAYLOR: I have some extra ones up there with the
commissioners, and we can -- we can talk about that.
MR. SCHMITT: Unfortunately, we don't have the Powerpoint
material here to show some of these slides. But, Amy, one of my
principal planners in community development.
MS. TAYLOR: Good evening. I'm very happy to be here this
evening. I have some good news, I hope, kind of get on a happier
note. How many of-- of you-all are from the Naples Park area?
Quite a few? Great.
I have some exciting news. Based on the direction of our board
of county commissioners back probably about 30 days ago, county
staff was directed to work with a few of the residents in Naples Park,
and also we had the opportunity, thanks to Commissioner Carter, to
meet with some -- some business owners and operators in Naples
Park to begin to develop what's called a scope of services for a
Naples Park community plan.
The Naples Park community plan was an idea that was borne out
of residents of Naples Park, and I don't know if any of you
participated in probably a year ago what was called the community
character plan. Naples Park was a model for maturing neighborhoods
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March 6, 2002
in Naples in the Collier County area that, you know, were developed
in a time when there -- there weren't PUDs, so to speak. So many of
the types of amenities that a community has, that's developed today,
like sidewalks, very up-to-date drainage, street trees, you know,
specific types of landscaping, community neighborhood parks and
these kinds of things, those things aren't -- aren't really a part of
neighborhoods like Naples Park. They're sort of maybe over time
retrofitted and so forth and piecemeal approaches to solving various
issues. And that's how Naples Park has had to deal with certain
community issues in the past.
I'm very pleased to announce that we're working very closely
with the community representatives to -- to work with Naples Park as
a whole community starting in April where we'll have a series of
workshops, and we will ask and-- well, and staff and the consultant
that we will hire, we will facilitate and assist the -- the community
with preparing our own community plan determining exactly what
kinds of improvements that you want as -- as residents and business
owners and operators in Naples Park, what you don't want, what
you're willing to pay for, what you're not willing to pay for, what --
what grants might be available out there, how we can coordinate
with -- with ongoing capital improvements that -- that may be going
on like the improvements along 111, for example, so to kind of
coordinate and have a complete plan that we can -- that we can
follow as time goes along and improve the quality of life in Naples
Park.
The time line of this is we're going to go back to the board
probably the -- the -- the second meeting in March, the -- the latter
part of March, for approval of the scope of services. And then the
latter part of April we'll begin -- we'll be ready to proceed with
community workshops, and we'll have various other opportunities for
involvement. We'll keep it on a website and for -- for your input
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March 6, 2002
through e-mails and so forth. We'll have -- there will be mostly night
and weekend meetings so that most of you can attend if you would
like.
I encourage you to be there. We're very excited to participate.
County staff and the consultant that will be working with you are --
are just that. We're just facilitators. We're going to be at your
disposal. We'll provide maybe some level of coordination and
expertise, you know, sort of different strategies that you might be
able to use to improve your community over time. But we're the --
there just to be problem solvers for you, and we're real excited to get
this going for you. And I'm available for questions if you have them
SO...
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I'm proud of Naples Park. I'll
tell you, we fought to get this in the study. They were the first ones
in for money for a study to do it, and we are moving on this. And
you are to be commended. Vera and all the others in the Park who
worked so hard, we're going to get there, and we're going to -- and
you're going to get and have a beautiful community by having
everyone participate. And it's good news that the business
community and the residential community are now beginning to work
together on this so that it is not one of these things that only a few
people want this, because I remember, Amy, when we had, what,
maybe 200 people from the park in the room. We talked about this,
and we all wanted to do something a little different. It doesn't make
any difference. At the end of the day we're all going to get there. So
I'm really proud of you, how we preserved a community right up here
in an area where folks didn't even know where Naples Park was.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: They do now.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: They do now.
Commissioner Henning.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: And, Vera, I just want to say I
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March 6, 2002
want to be involved in that process being chairman or liaison, kind of
liaison for the Dover, Kohl community character and smart growth,
that I want to be involved in Naples Park since this is the first one.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: You're welcome.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: And it's going to happen all
over the county. So I'm very pleased. MS. FITZ-GERALD: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, you're always welcome,
Commissioner, into District 2, if you behave yourself.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you. As long as I get
past-- past some of the gates.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: No, no, not Naples Park.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: Good point.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. If there are no other
questions on the park, we -- we've done the moratorium. We've done
the master plan. We do have the corridor study, though, yet that we
didn't touch base on.
MR. SCOTT: Don Scott, transportation planning.
The corridor study that we're looking at is transportation
improvements in the area bounded by Lee County down to 111 and
Vanderbilt Drive over U.S. 41. We're looking at what type of
transportation improvements should be instituted to meet existing and
future demand in that area.
We had our f~rst public meeting about two weeks ago in this --
in this building right here. We had about 145 people attend. And I'm
glad to hear that the signs are working for getting people out.
We had 81 comment sheets, and we're still actually receiving
some comment sheets in. One of the main comments that comment
65 -- 65 comments on the comment sheets was to try to get sidewalks
or bike lanes on the two bridges within the -- on Vanderbilt Drive
south of Wiggins.
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March 6, 2002
Our next step is to identify alternatives based on comments that
we have received and try to meet the traffic demand. We're
scheduled to have a public workshop or we'll be ready to have a
public workshop in July which I guess might be pushed to the fall,
which seems to be more popular, and our study will end at the end in
November, unless we move that out at this time.
I also wanted to say as -- as part of this study -- and when I hear
as these other two studies are going on, traffic improvements that are
outside this area will also be addressed because of our work with
community development.
Do you have any questions?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm glad you mentioned the last part.
There's traffic elements in each one of these studies. It will be
amalgamated and pulled together, and we will pay attention to all of
it. So this district is really, you might say -- gosh, people say there's
an awful lot of stuff going on up here. But I will tell you, we're doing
all of the right things with these studies to get where we want to be to
incorporate what we did in community character because your
community and you're standing up and telling us what you want, and
that's what needs to happen here, ladies and gentlemen. We can't
look into a crystal ball and guess what you want. We need to know
what you want. We need the process to get there, and that's why
we're doing it.
The gentleman coming up to the mike, then we'll go to other
public comments for anybody else who wants to get in line.
MR. SAULS: Lynn Sauls, S-a-u-l-s, King Saul with an S on the
end.
I made this speech before, but it seems like it keeps coming
around, coming around, and I don't -- don't want anybody to forget it.
I don't know whether 1 1 1 th ought to be widened or not. I know some
people say it ought to be widened so people can have better access to
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March 6, 2002
the beach. And some say, oh, no, it shouldn't be widened because
that will just encourage a lot of traffic, and there's too much traffic on
it already. I don't know which way it should go. But I hope a
decision is made soon.
I bought property there sixteen years ago. And at the time they
said this ditch is going to be filled, but we need to decide whether --
how we're going to widen the road or not. And it comes up every
now and then.
If it is going to be widened, it seems like, for the sake of the
property owners on the south side of 111 th, that the widening should
be on the north side because all of the homes are on the south side.
And if it's widened there, it's going to be right up against the doors of
a lot of these people.
On the north side it's not going to affect people adversely. So I
would make this speech again. If you're going to widen the 11 lth,
widen it on the north side so you won't wreck all the property on the
south side. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir.
Can we go to public speakers, Mr. Mudd?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, you have 20 public speakers.
And with the length of the evening and everybody get their time and
if folks would get up and get their point across, just remember that
there's a couple -- couple 15 or 18 behind them. The first speaker is Carol -- Carol Wright.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We'd like to restrict this to 3 minutes,
please.
MS. WRIGHT: I'll pass.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Waives. Thank you. Next speaker.
MR. OLLIFF: Chairman, I think your minute taker needs a
break.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. She's almost out of paper.
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March 6, 2002
We need to take five. Yes, God bless.
(A short break was held.)
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, our next speaker is Miss Vera
Fitz-Gerald.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: Oh, okay.
MR. MUDD: If-- if you'd spell your last name again for the --
for the recorder. I think you've already gotten her.
THE COURT REPORTER: Yes, I've got it. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Remember, folks, remember,
three minutes, please. Vera Fitz-Gerald.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: With a capital G. And it's a Z, not an S.
I don't have fits. I want to talk about 1 1 lth again, but I'm not going
digging it up.
I would say -- I couldn't imagine how many meetings I've been
to over the last 10 or 15 years about 1 11 th Avenue. And I was just
talking to Mr. Sott (phonetic) at the last break there. And I was
saying, "For God's sake, how many times do we have to address a
new bunch of people?" We've already said what we want a thousand
times at various meetings. We have had countless meetings where
we agreed we wanted enhanced road. You can't have a livable city if
you four lane and six lane every cotton picking road in sight. You
can't have a livable city. That isn't what it's made of.
But that is a residential street, and there are a lot of homes on it,
and it doesn't matter whether you're on the north side or the south
side, you're still going to impact some lovely homes.
That's what happened to Pine Ridge Road. It used to be South
Road or South Avenue or something. But now you will see that
there's very few residences, if any. They're -- they're not -- it's just
wet, mn down, and it went commercial. And that's what will happen
to 11 lth. It's a residential road. If you want to do something,
enhance it. This is what we've said for 10, 15 years.
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March 6, 2002
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: Just one more time, Vera, one
more time.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I can-- I can help you with this
Vera, speak slowly, keep repeating it, and then eventually the
commissioners will understand you.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: Enhancing means you put turn lanes so
the person can get in in a little lane to go left into Naples Park. You
can make a right turn, but you don't have a great big four-lane
highway where people are driving 60 miles an hour. And, you know,
we have proven it a hundred times that if you build it, they're going to
come. So if you four lane it, we're going to have four lanes of traffic,
and we don't want that. We're a residential area.
One of the things that will happen is that you will draw down
the traffic from the northern sections from Bonita Springs. They
already cut through. So we would like to see that channeled
elsewhere, not through a residential neighborhood, okay?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: Do you -- have you got the message?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Vera, I got the -- it the first time. But
remember, we switched hands several times.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Come on, guys. Pay attention.
MR. OLLIFF: Vera, we'll schedule another meeting and talk
about it.
MR. BING: Can I respond to that for one moment? I think you
have to look at the greater good. There are a lot of people that use
111 th Street that live on Gulfshore Drive.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Sir, I do understand your point, but
we've got to stay in line with speakers.
MR. BING: Sorry. There's at least another side to that coin.
MR. MUDD: Next speaker is Mr. Dick Lydon.
MR. LYDON: I pass.
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March 6, 2002
MR. MUDD: The next speaker is John Wiegenstein.
MR. WIEGENSTEIN: No.
MR. MUDD: He passes.
Next speaker is Bonnie Karkut, and I pronounced it right,
ma'am?
MS. KARKUT: You did, yes. It is Bonnie Karkut. I'm a
Tarpon Cove resident, a member of the Bimini board there, and a
member of the newly formed organization, North Bay Civic
Association.
And my comment is in regard to transportation so that residents
in the area of Wiggins Pass Road can more safely get to and from
their destinations back home and off to shopping or wherever they're
headed.
I feel -- this, of course, is in reference to your transportation
department that we are in desperate need before any -- there isn't any
time to study widening this or widening that -- for a stop light on the
comer of Vanderbilt and Wiggins Pass Road. We are -- we're going
to have a serious accident. I drive that every day, because I -- I'm
fearful to go out on 41. And in that instance on 41, on the comer of
Wiggins Pass Road and 41, we need to revise that traffic light system.
We need arrows to indicate when we're going straight across, because
there was -- my husband was almost hit twice in one day going
straight across because the cars coming the other way don't realize
that people are allowed to go straight across. They assumed he was
turning. So I think this is a very important issue. It's not just for
Tarpon Cove people but for any community surrounding Wiggins
Pass Road and Vanderbilt and anybody wanting to get on 41, an
already congested comer. Thank you.
MR. MUDD: Next speaker is -- Norm.
MR. FEDER: If I could, ma'am, I just wanted to let you know
that there is some work already underway. We're probably two
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March 6, 2002
months away from a signal there. I know it's not addressing
yesterday, but it's about two months away, and we are moving on it.
MS. KARKUT: Signal which--
MR. FEDER: Wiggins and Vanderbilt Drive, ma'am.
MR. MUDD: Next speaker is Diane Ketchum.
MS. KETCHUM: You're going to love this. I was going to feed
-- I was going to feed my time to my husband for questions, but he
doesn't want to ask them. Never mind then.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Now be nice to each other.
MS. KETCHUM: I just -- are they going to add turn lines to
that stop light, because we have a major problem with the traffic
light? We love the traffic light, those of us on the beach on 111 and
Vanderbilt Drive, but there are no turn lanes for two directions. We
would hope that you were going to remedy this on the Wiggins Pass
light and at least have the turn lane.
MR. FEDER: Okay. Let me go to the first one. The light that
we have at 111 th and Vanderbilt Drive, we've got a number of turn
lanes and everything we could. We've got one turn lane we'd still
like to do, and we told you when we first put that up that we had
some restrictions on right-of-way an, FP&L situation. We're trying
to do that to establish what I will call the westbound-northbound left
turn storage. And it's needed, I agree. But we're trying to get that
right-of-way and get that movement of the FP&L utilities.
To the issue on Wiggins, I need to look exactly at the plans
before I tell you incorrectly. But typically we do try to put a turn lane
in unless we're restricted. And I think that part of it is putting those
turn lanes in, why, it's taking the period of time to get it up.
MR. MUDD: Next speaker is -- is Larry McGrath.
Mr. McGrath.
VOICE IN AUDIENCE: I think he spoke.
MR. MUDD: Okay. Next speaker is Larry Wegner.
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March 6, 2002
MR. WEGNER: We were talking earlier about the moratorium
and -- and this intersection up here at 11 lth and Vanderbilt. At the
one workshop they had here, they were showing a traffic count for a
left-mm lane. And actually coming east off Bluebell there were more
left roms by your own traffic count, like 5 to 1, as there was from
coming from the south for a left-mm lane. It was like 120 left roms
to, like, 20. So I think, you know, we need to address that.
The second thing is, is there some kind of a website where we
could go to look for what's going on with the moratorium? Is there
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
weeks.
a -- has anybody --.
MS. MURRAY:
WEGNER:
MURRAY:
WEGNER:
MURRAY:
There will be.
There will be?
Uh-huh.
Do you know approximately when?
I would say probably within the next two
MR. WEGNER: Okay. Thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: And, Susan, is that going to be
in the planning department's website?
MS. MURRAY: Thank you, Commissioner. Yes. That will be
in the planning department's website.
MR. SCHMITT: County website.
MS. MURRAY: For -- right. County website, planning
department.
MR. MUDD: Our next speaker is either Jack Stevens or Steuber
VOICE IN AUDIENCE: He's gone.
MR. MUDD: I think it's Jack Stevens. I'm looking at all the
squiggles. The next speaker is Dr. Richard Bing.
MR. BING: I'll just continue what I interrupted and apologize
to Mrs. Fitzgibbons (sic). I do think there's been a warning to these
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March 6, 2002
people for a long period of time on 1 1 1 th Street. I don't know how
many houses there are, and nobody realized with all the activity that's
going on on the beach that there might be a widening of that road;
they had to be really sleepy. And maybe the county can help
financially with the right-of-way or whatever has to be done, but we
need a much wider 1 1 lth Street. It's really congested and
particularly --.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: You don't live there.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Whoa, whoa, whoa. No speaking
while those are speaking.
MR. BING: Particularly with all the activity at this church, the
school, etc., at various periods, not only during the week but on the
weekend. It's very difficult to navigate through here.
So I realize that that might offend some people, but I think when
you have to make decisions, as you commissioners do, for the greater
good of the majority of people, that obviously the answer is easy in
this case.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir.
MR. MUDD: Next speaker is Bruce Gray. Mr. Gray?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We wore him out.
MR. MUDD: Next speaker is James LeSage.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: He went home.
MR. MUDD: Mr. LeSage?
MS. FITZ-GERALD: Yeah, Jim.
MR. MUDD: Next speaker is Mildred Lucanegro. I hope I
didn't butcher it too bad.
MS. LUCANEGRO: Hello. My name is Mildred Lucanegro. I
am vice president of Naples Park Area Association, L-u-c-a-n-e-g-r-
O.
And the president, Rose Palumbo, is here today, and I want to
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March 6, 2002
extend to you an invitation to come to Naples Park Area Association
building. We're willing to have any of your speakers come to our
meetings or to hold any kind of workshops or planning shops. And
we look forward to all the things that are going on in Naples Park,
and we thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. And if you go there, they
have great meetings, nice coffee, and really good cakes and cookies.
MR. MUDD: Next speaker is Sally Barker.
MS. BARKF. R: You didn't think you were going to get out of
here without hearing from me, did you?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: No, ma'am. I saw you waiting
patiently.
MS. BARKER: Absolutely. I have two -- two things I want to
talk about. One is I want to congratulate the county on the great
improvements on citizen input on the big stuff. The citizen partition -
- participation plan is really great. And, as was shown in the
Goodlette Comers case, it can work, and we're very glad for that.
Unfortunately, I think what we're taking a slight step backwards
is on what I call the pothole issues. And don't take offense, Norm.
I'm not talking about literal potholes. It's sort of a catchall phrase for
the little stuff that's aggravating and frustrating and drives the citizens
absolutely out of their trees. And in-- in the bad old days before we
got reformed, a citizen could take one of these pothole issues to a
commissioner who would then twist a few arms, kick a few butts, and
the problem got solved.
mean, legally you can't.
which sort of--
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
MS. BARKER: Sorry?
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
MS. BARKER:
Well, now we can't do that anymore. I
You can't twist arms, kick butt, whatever,
I got in trouble for that, Sally.
I got in trouble for that.
Yeah. Well -- and-- and I understand the -- the
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March 6, 2002
legal necessity of keeping the commissioners somewhat at arm's
length. But, unfortunately, it also leaves the citizens out in the dark
with really nowhere to go. They send a complaint to the
commissioner's office. The commissioners go to Tom's office and
whatever appropriate staff department. Sometimes that works;
sometimes that doesn't. And, Tom, you're a busy guy. You're
running a county. You can't be handling all the pothole issues.
So perhaps it is time to rethink one of the proposals that was
made last year on the citizen Om -- Ombudsman position -- if I could
pronounce it, I would appreciate that -- somebody who can go and
field some of these issues for the citizens because right now there is
no one.
And as an example of one of these pothole issues I'd like to
dump on you now is a letter from Gayland Richardson from Imperial
who couldn't be here this evening. But they're having a problem, and
it's left over from the U.S. 41 widening. Someone standing on the
sidewalks created by FDOT. And, yes, she knows it's FDOT's
responsibility, but she can't get any reaction out of FDOT and was
hoping the county would do something to help lean on FDOT to get
the situation resolved. And I'll give you these wonderful letters.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: If you could give me the letters, Sally,
I am under no restrictions to deal with the FDOT.
MS. BARKER: You're under no restrictions?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I hope.
MS. BARKER: Oh, okay. Well, then you can butt heads
with FDOT and the --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: It would be my pleasure.
MS. BARKER: The other issue I would like to raise, because
it's been talked about a bit this evening, are the LDC amendments.
And I'm really pleased that the LDC amendments are being posted on
the county's website. What I think about the website I won't mention.
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March 6, 2002
But the LDC schedules, we're coming up for another cycle. I
guess it's going to -- well, I guess it's already at DSAC and it will go
to the planning commission on April 10th. And this is really
wonderful. I'm really glad that these amendments are put on the
website but -- here comes the but-- when you pull them up on the
website, all you see are a string of numbers. Do you think it would
be possible to have something that's a little more descriptive than a
string of numbers so that we don't have to go through them one by
one by one to try to figure out what is being amended? I think that
would be real helpful.
And with that, I will look forward to the next speaker and give
you your letters.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
MR. MUDD: The next speaker is Rose Palumbo.
MS. PALUMBO: My name is Rose Palumbo, P-a-l-u-m-b-o.
I'm the president of Naples Park Area Association, and I wish for
anyone to come to the club, Dover, Kohl or -- or Commissioner
Henning, or anybody that wanted to talk about what's happening in
Naples Park with this character study. And that's -- thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
MR. MUDD: Next speaker is Jim Kramer.
MR. KRAMER: My name is Jim Kramer, K-r-a-m-e-r.
Commissioner Carter, will you be running for reelection in the
fall?
until
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Sir, incumbents are always candidates
further notice.
MR. MUDD: Next speaker is Lynn Sauls.
(No response.)
MR. MUDD: Mr. Sauls was here before. I think he's gone.
Next -- next speaker is Hank Fay.
(No response.)
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March 6, 2002
MR. MUDD: And the last speaker is Eric Lynne.
(No response.)
MR. MUDD: Oh, there's Mr. Fay.
MR. FAY: Hank Fay, F-a-y.
A quick note on 1 1 lth. There's an opposite side to every coin.
The folks who bought down the end of the road, it was two lanes
when they bought it.
With regard to the Vanderbilt corridor study, I'd like to give
everyone a little history because, as George Santiana (phonetic) said,
"If we do not remember our history, we will repeat it." The
Vanderbilt Corridor Task Force, which I was a member and had
representatives from all the neighborhoods along Vanderbilt Drive,
met with a representative of the transportation department. And we
talked about -- and -- and Signature Communities was there. And we
talk about having a planning process that would enhance Vanderbilt
Drive from Vanderbilt Beach Road up to -- out to, you know, Bonita.
And we had agreement on that, including from the transportation
department. We came to some other conclusions. We unanimously
agreed that Wilson, Miller would be less than our last choice for a
consultant because their record in paying attention to community
matters did not impress us. In fact, it impressed us negatively. And
we saw that -- to us, the whole idea of community input was really
important in this process.
Well, the next step was, of course, the selection. There was a
selection committee, and we were told in no uncertain terms by the
county employee that we could not have a vote on this committee, as
if it wasn't really ever permitted. We found out after the fact that it
would, in fact, have been permitted. In the process we did have an
observer -- Sally was there, with no vote. A county employee --
another county employee spoke up very highly for Wilson, Miller. In
fact, my -- what I heard was that he basically pushed the choice on
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March 6, 2002
the committee.
The next thing we heard was that the Vanderbilt corridor study
would stop at 1 1 lth. Now, to me this is a story of betrayal. We met
with the county employee, and we -- there was agreement with --
with her and -- and among us that it would go from one end to the
other. There was agreement that Wilson, Miller was not our choice
because -- and we were told that there were many firms besides
Dover, Kohl that could do this. And, frankly, we were betrayed. So
cautionary tale.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm going to ask Mr. Feder to respond,
sir.
MR. FEDER: I'll be very general on it, and I -- and I appreciate
your concerns. The person you spoke to on staff was not somebody
that voted for particularly that consultant to be hired. I'll leave it at
that. Sally knows what I'm saying. MR. FAY: I know.
MR. FEDER: There was a team brought together, and the
results raised some issues, but the process has to be followed, and I
have to stay with that process.
As far as the decision to stop at 111, the concern was I have a
constrained corridor and have had that I inherited even before I came
at Vanderbilt Beach Road. The concept that we're looking at is the
review, including the do-nothing alternative, of whether or not we
respond in additional lane capacity expansion or just turn lanes at the
entrance or whatever, but essentially looking at expansion of
transportation capacity. And so basically we're looking from Bonita
down to Wiggins down to 11 lth, the decision to keep that as a
transportation item.
About that same time was the discussions relative to Dover,
Kohl of doing a Naples Park area study, which also will have
transportation issues addressed. So the decision was to stop at 11 lth
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March 6, 2002
somewhat in a response to -- shall I say of the concern relative to
selection and also in response to the fact that we didn't want to
predispose out of this transportation study the overlay issues for
Naples Park. I hope I've answered your question.
MR. FAY: Not really.
MR. FEDER: Well, I tried.
MR. FAY: We have come to one decision, and we were then
cut out of the process, and decisions were just made. And -- and, you
know, that particular staff member who pushed it in that meeting has
even been quoted in the paper as saying he thinks Wilson, Miller is
terrific. I wish something would be done about that.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Feder, was this a bid
process?
MR. FEDER: This is a consultant selection. You had a
consultant selection team with representatives from not only my
department but other departments in the county. And they go through
and do a technical ranking and rating. And typically unless there's
some overriding reason to -- to override their decision, that's what's
presented to you, to the board for selection. We had some issues of
concerns from the community that we know got raised, but,
nonetheless, that technical team came with that -- that decision, and
that's what we presented to you. And we have modified not to make
that part of the Naples Park -- Park study, and we will address
transportation as part of that study.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MR. FAY: What that tells me is that community input doesn't
count because you say, well, we heard the community input, but the
technical stuff said we're going to choose this. Well, that tells me
community doesn't count.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Fay, I think that's an unfair
statement based upon all the time the commissioners have sat here
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March 6, 2002
tonight, absorbed everything this audience has told us. We have rules
and regulations under which we operate as commissioners. We'll --
staff has guidelines, which they follow, and we are prohibited by law,
I believe, Counselor, to get involved in any bidding or process where
people are selected. That would be called interference and subject to
disciplinary action to be brought against us. So that's why we do
what we do. You may not agree with our decision. We do listen to
communities. That doesn't mean that everybody gets everything that
they want in any particular study. So -- Mr. Olliff, do you have any
further comments or Mr. Coletta, Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I just wanted to make a
comment on that. I -- I had the good fortune to have the time to sit on
two different selection committees as an observer. We're forbidden
by ordinance and by state statutes from interfering in the day-to-day
business of the county. And it's a good rule because things would get
out of hand real quick if you had five people telling everybody what
to do on a day-to-day basis.
And I'll tell you something: That selection committee that I
witnessed what they did was totally fair. It was above reproach, and I
would assume that everyone that they've done in the past, too.
Wilson Miller, like any firm that has done a tremendous amount of
work in this county, may not have done everything to everybody's
liking. I'll tell you something: They're a reputable firm, and they've
come through many times in very positive work. I really don't think
it's fair to be belittling someone for some reason because they didn't
reach the same conclusions that you may have. You know, they're
part of the process as everyone else is here. And I think a little more
patience, I think, is due. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Mr. Fay, I think that's a little unfair
statement also. You guys are now enjoying this moratorium that you
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March 6, 2002
asked for and we gave you because we were listening. We're being
sued because we were listening to the residents and siding with them.
So I think that's a little unfair.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Next speaker, Mr. Mudd.
MR. FAY: Excuse me. I'd like to respond.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Use the microphone.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You've got to come to the
microphone, and we have other people that haven't even had an
opportunity to speak. So before you respond to that, I'm going to
exercise my prerogative as the designated chair tonight to listen to the
other people. Then you may come back to the microphone and finish
addressing this petition.
MR. MUDD: Sir, the last speaker is Erica Lynne.
MS. LYNNE: I had a question for Don Scott. When we were
talking about the Vanderbilt corridor study, did you -- were you
informed about the Vanderbilt corridor task force and the work that
we did previous to this -- your study?
MR. SCOTT: I had some correspondence that was done
previously, and I will give you my business card. And if I'm missing
something out of it--
MS. LYNNE: Do you have our list of recommendations and so
forth?
MR. SCOTT:
MS. LYNNE:
No, I don't.
Okay. That information certainly the
transportation department and Commissioner Carter was provided
with last year, so we can get it to you again. MR. SCOTT: Okay.
MS. LYNNE: I'd also like to just say that we had an observer
on that committee. And the top -- the consultants were given
numbers in order of priority. And Wilson, Miller was not one of the
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March 6, 2002
two top consultants, and that's just a fact. We had them there to --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You were the last speaker, ma'am.
Mr. Fay may come back to the microphone and address this court.
Norman, if you need anything on that study, I have a whole file.
MR. FEDER: We have some of that material. I'll make sure
that we have it all.
MR. FAY: My comment wasn't about the commissioners and
whether you listen to us at all. You know, you've been responsive to
the degree that -- that you have to be and -- and sometimes more, and
that's great. But this was a case where once things got inside a
particular process in a company department, technical considerations
overweighed community input, and that's all I was saying.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir. Mr. Fee, do you wish
to speak, sir? Mr. Fee--
MR. FEE: No.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- did you want the opportunity to
speak, sir? Thank you.
By the way, ladies -- you haven't had your election yet. This
was the motivator behind finding the North Association.
MR. FEE: Good evening, and my name is Doug Fee, and I live
in the North Naples area, and I am president of the North Bay Civic
Association. It's a new association for this area. And I would like to
thank you for coming to the North Bay. And I know there are a great
many issues. And you guys have a tough task in front of you and--
and will have for many years ahead of you. I'm -- I'm probably one
of the younger people in this room tonight. And we're willing -- I
plan on living here for many years, and a lot of these decisions that
we're talking about are going to affect for many, many years.
I also want to take this opportunity to make sure, in response to
the Vanderbilt corridor study, that there are no limits to this study.
It's going to affect all of us. And we need to make sure that it's the
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March 6, 2002
Vanderbilt Beach and Bay, it's the Naples Park, it's the North Bay.
It's the whole North Naples area that's going to be affected. And we
will come together as a collective group and hopefully give you some
positive feedback because we live in a great area, and we want to
make sure that we're all dedicated to preserving our coastal Florida
life-style. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Carter, before
you wrap it up--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Henning.
VICE CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you. The topic of the
Goodlette commercial PUD came up and the statement of breaking
the camel's back for sweeping change of the Growth Management
Plan and the Land Development Code. I believe it started previous to
that, Commissioner Carter, with your statement, we need to get a
hold and control growth and not let growth control us. You-- you
steered us through a difficult time last year with many issues through
many workshops, concurrency items, and different things that with
county government, I want to thank you for that. Through that
process, during our regular meetings, there was heartburn, I think,
from all the commissioners of PUDs or commercial development
where the Land Development Code is the driving force of what they
can get and what they can't get, even though we didn't like it. Now
that we got all these important issues out of the way, the board of
commissioners are going to get proactive instead of reactive on
growth management and be more conducive of what you want to see
in the county. And it's not that we need to know the lingo just of
input of what we need to change in the Land Development Code or
the Growth Management Plan. Just drive around the county and tell
us what you like and you don't like, and that's enough input to -- for
us to make those changes for us to get there. And -- so I just want to
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March 6, 2002
correct that, Commissioner. I know that you're very cordial with the
other board members, but you have made a huge difference in
guiding this county to what the citizens want in Collier County. So
thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Freshman class to my right and my
left, they really now graduated. They're sophomores. They're almost
a junior category. They have really come a long ways, ladies and
gentlemen. I'm going to tell you it's not an easy job. being a county
commissioner. You come here, and you try to learn as fast as you
can. These commissioners have made yoman's efforts to get there.
Commissioner Coyle coming on board with us, I think you're right.
We have turned the comer from being reactive to more proactive. I
always said it takes four votes, the Land Development Code, get a
zoning change, and that's good news. That's a super majority. So
you have to convince the board of county commissioners that it is
good for the community, from the input we get from the community,
that this is the direction we go. Sometimes it's slow; sometimes it's
painful. But if we get there and do it right, then we can look with
pride as to where we are.
Commissioner Coyle, any words of wisdom for us this evening
before we wrap up?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I would like to make some
comments concerning my discussions earlier with a few of the
members here. Some of them came up to congratulate me on this
proposal concerning management growth that many of you saw in the
newspaper.
I wanted to tell you a couple of things about that. Perhaps we're
not obvious. First of all, it was not intended for publication. It was
written to the other commissioners. And, secondly, it did not contain
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March 6, 2002
the cover letter which -- which accompanied that document. And that
cover letter essentially said that -- that much of the work and many of
the ideas expressed in that document came from staff members and
actually from other commissioners. I do not wish to take credit for
that document. It has been widely disseminated, and I can assure you
that many of the things that I wrote about that we should be doing
and had already been done were started before I got on -- on the
commission.
So I want to give the other commissioners credit for -- for doing
the right kinds of things. The problem is that because there's such a
backlog of problems, it's going to take us a long time to work through
it. So -- so that the good work of this commission, even before I
came on board, will -- will take some time and become obvious.
Things move slowly in government, unfortunately. And, as I said,
there's a lot of stuff coming down the road that has long since been
approved, and we're going to have to deal with that.
As many of you know, I came from-- from the city council
where I -- of Naples where I served for a couple of years, and I can
tell you that -- that you have one of the most productive commissions
I think I've ever seen, that the people here get along well, that they
are willing to -- to listen to different points of view. They debate
them in a -- in a reasonable manner, and they try to reach decisions
based on the good of the entire community. That doesn't mean we
won't make -- make mistakes, because we will. If-- if I, as the
newest member of this commission, can give you a somewhat
unbiased report, you have every reason to be proud of the people
sitting on this commission, and -- and I am confident that we are
going to -- to earn your trust as we move forward.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, Commissioner Coyle.
Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I just want to thank you for having
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March 6, 2002
us here in North Naples tonight. This was a great meeting and a very
good audience. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, thank you. You're always
welcome here, and they're always a great audience. Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I just want to say, too, I
appreciate being here tonight. I want to thank you for being the
guiding light, Commissioner Carter. You have been the -- what do
we want to call it? -- the wise man of the mountain.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: They usually call me the old man on
the mountain.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, you are the senior
member of this group I think by a couple of months.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, no. I have that distinction. I'm
older than everybody.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, he looks a lot older than
everybody.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You're not available for comment.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The only thing I want to share
with you, we come from similar backgrounds. One of the things I
found very encouraging here today is there's so many community
leaders, new civic associations, property owners' associations. I've
never seen so many of them in such a small area. That's remarkable,
and that shows the real interest in what's taking place in and around.
We're the product of that very same atmosphere. Every one of us
comes from a very strong civic background.
We took a real big interest. Let me warn you, though, you get
too involved and you keep going the way you are, you're going to end
up being commissioners some day too. You deserve it. And with
that I want to say good night.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
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March 6, 2002
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Motion to adjourn.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We've got to -- Mr. Mudd and Mr.
Olliff.
MR. OLLIFF: The only comment that I would make is just to
go ahead and in advance tell Mr. Feder, no, you cannot go to
Denmark to look at the bike paths.
For Ms. Ketchum's sake, the next town hall meeting will be
April 2nd at the Golden Gate Community Center. It's the District 3
town hall meeting. Constructive criticism is well made, and we will
do our very best to get that notice out starting this week about that
next meeting. And with these people's good graces, Mr. Chairman, I
think we could say good night, Gracie.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. I move for adjournment.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. All in favor, signify by saying
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
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March 6, 2002
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 9:47 p.m.
I~.w}GhT ;i!. ~ROCK, CLERK
~ ~,i~, .':
;e minutes approved by the Board on
presented / or as co~ected
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTROL
JAMES L.tf~ARTER, ACTING CHAIRMAN
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT
REPORTING, INC., BY BARBARA A. DONOVAN, RMR, CRR
Page 75