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PVAC Minutes 01/07/2002 RJanuary7,2002 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE PUBLIC VEHICLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE January 7, 2002 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Public Vehicle Advisory Committee, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:05 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: ALTERNATE: Bryan L. S. Pease Pat Baisley Eric Hyde William J. Csogi Dan Shriner Allen Walburn ALSO PRESENT: Michelle Arnold, Code Enforcement Ekna Hu, Code Enforcement Tom Palmer, Assistant County Attorney Page 1 January 7, 2002 CHAIRMAN PEASE: I call the meeting to order. Could I have the roll call, please. MS. HU: Certainly. Ekna Hu for the record, code enforcement. Bryan Pease. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Here. MS. HU: William Csogi. Let the record show William Csogi is out-- absent. Eric Hyde. Let the record show Eric Hyde is absent. Patricia Baisley. MS. BAISLEY: Here. MS. HU: Allen Walburn. MR. WALBURN: Here. MS. HU: Dan Shriner. MR. SHRINER: Here. CHAIRMAN PEASE: I'd like to move up the -- one item, the welcome to the new member, if we could, to now. MS. ARNOLD: And for the record, Michelle Arnold, code enforcement director. If you'd like to move up election of officers as well as the first item on the agenda, it's up to you-all. CHAIRMAN PEASE: I'll keep that in case they kick me out. MS. ARNOLD: Okay. CHAIRMAN PEASE: I'd like to keep that to the very end. We'd like to welcome the two new members. Are the -- the two that are not here -- we -- they reported to you -- MS. HU: They were, and I did get it confirmed that they were going to be here. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Good. I'm pleased to have the new members to the committee. Looking forward to you becoming acclimated to what we do, which is basically to protect the safety of the citizens through the management of the transportation companies and approval of those companies based on criteria. Page 2 January 7, 2002 A couple things relating to the court reporter, just want to request -- is to speak one at a time, speak clearly, especially if you're reading from a document. If you can speak directly into the microphone and try -- the hardest part for us is overlapping conversations which is very difficult for the court reporter. If you could be conscious of that, that would be great. Do we have any additions or deletions? (No response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: I would like to add under old business just a recap of the ordinance and what happened with the county commissioners. Any others? (No response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do I have approval of the agenda? MS. BAISLEY: I'll make a motion we approve the agenda. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Motion made by Pat Baisley. Do we have a second? MR. SHRINER: I'll second it. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Thank you very much. Second. All those in favor. (Unanimous response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: Opposed. (No response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: Motion carried. Do we have approval of the minutes? MS. BAISLEY: I'll make an approval of the minutes of the October 4th meeting. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Made by Pat Baisley. Do I have a second? MR. WALBURN: I'll second it. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Second by Allen Walburn. All those in Page 3 January 7, 2002 favor say aye. (Unanimous response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: (No response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any public comment? MS. HU: None that I've gotten. CHAIRMAN PEASE: MS. HU: None. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Opposed. Motioned carried. Okay. Requests? Not sure what that is. Nothing. Okay. New business. Review for approval to operate a charter service by Christopher Pulichino, if I pronounced that right. Is the representative or Christopher here? MR. COKOROGIANIS: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN PEASE: If you could come forward to be sworn in, please. (The oath was administered.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: And you're -- are you Christopher? You're not Christopher; I know that. MR. COKOROGIANIS: No. Christopher is my stepson. I'm George Cokorogianis from Naples Taxi. I own Naples Taxi. C-o-k- o-r-o-g-i-a-n-i-s. Couple of reasons I'm not representing Christopher is -- but the main reason, his grandfather -- he's on his way to Massachusetts because his grandfather is dying which I have to follow up, you know, after the meeting. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. MS. BAISLEY: I have a question on the insurance that's proposed for the vehicle that's to be licensed. The insurance is in the name of Naples Taxi. MR. COKOROGIANIS: I'm leasing the vehicle to Christopher. MS. BAISLEY: But the insurance needs to be in the name of Page 4 January 7, 2002 the company that the permit's issued to; is that correct? That's what we've said all along. MR. SHRINER: Is that a 12-month lease, sir? MR. COKOROGIANI$: Yes. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Clarification on the insurance -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: I'm sorry. CHAIRMAN PEASE: -- Tom. Does it need to be in the lessee's name insurance or the lessor's? MR. PALMER: I will have to double-check the ordinance. I don't know off the top of my head. Do these folks know over here? Does the insurance have to be in the name of the company that's -- that's leasing the vehicle rather than the vehicle that is -- that owns the vehicle; do you know? MS. HU: It has to be under the company, as far as I know. MR. COKOROGIANI$: Excuse me. May I say something? He's going to be independent contractor with me too. In other words, he -- he can use my insurance the same as -- Ms. Baisley understands that. She has owner-operators or she's had owner-operators. She insures -- she insures their vehicles. She pays their insurance for them. MS. BAISLEY: And the insurance is in my name, my company name. MR. WALBURN: Does he have -- does he have a separate tax ID number? MR. COKOROGIANIS: No. He's -- he's exempt from that because he's using a Social Security number. He's not a corporation, which he does not have to be. MR. WALBURN: Well, he's using a Social Security number as a tax ID number. MR. COKOROGIANIS: Yes, he is. MR. WALBURN: So he'll be operating and filing income tax Page 5 January 7, 2002 on revenues received -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: Yes, he will. MR. WALBURN: So he'll be a separate entity. MR. COKOROGIANIS: He's also going to be -- he's going to be on his own, and I'm going to give him work. MR. WALBURN: I understand that but who -- who is -- who is responsible for the happenings of that vehicle, the lessor or the lessee? MR. COKOROGIANIS: I am because I'm leasing him the vehicle. MR. WALBURN: Then the insurance should be in your name, it seems to me. MR. COKOROGIANIS: It is. MR. WALBURN: Then what are we here for? MR. COKOROGIANIS: Because he's getting a certificate for his own -- for his own operation. MR. WALBURN: Seems to me I'm missing the point here. If he's in business for himself, if he has a problem -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: Right. MR. WALBURN: -- the client would go to him for satisfaction. MR. COKOROGIANIS: Right. MR. WALBURN: If the insurance is in your name-- MR. COKOROGIANIS: Uh-huh. MR. WALBURN: -- it seems to me he's out of the loop. MR. COKOROGIANIS: Then what we'll do is we'll just put the insurance in his name. That's not a problem. MR. WALBURN: That seems appropriate to me. I may be missing the point here. MR. COKOROGIANIS: Okay. That's fine. Whatever the board says I have to do I shall do. MS. ARNOLD' Yeah. I -- I believe that's what we've always Page 6 January 7, 2002 asked for, is the insurance be in the name of the company. MR. COKOROGIANIS: That's not a problem. MR. SHRINER: His application calls for Suite 128 at -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: That's correct. MR. SHRINER: -- is that his -- does he have a lease on that suite? MR. COKOROGIANIS: That office, yes, he does. He's right across from me. MR. SHRINER: Okay. Thank you. MR. COKOROGIANIS: You're welcome. MR. PALMER: In answer to the question, the ordinance does require, on page 20, Section 142-54, that the -- the insured must be the entity that it's operating in the vehicle. In other words, if you own it or it's leased to you, you are the entity or the person that must obtain the insurance. It's clarified in the ordinance on Section 154 -- 142-54, Subparagraph -- Subsection A. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Is this the new ordinance? MR. PALMER: This is the new ordinance. MR. WALBURN: I mean, that's just -- to me, that's just a common-sense logic. MR. PALMER: Yes, but we -- over the years, because of lack of specificity of the ordinance in the past, it's been an issue. MR. WALBURN: Right. MR. PALMER: But I think we've cleaned it up here in this ordinance to be -- be specific about it, so any questions about a resolve with specificity in the ordinance -- now that's not a problem. You'll just get him -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: Yeah. Not a problem. Do it today. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Let the record show Mr. Hyde is also involved in the meeting. Page 7 January 7, 2002 (Mr. Hyde enters meeting.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: Good morning, Eric. MR. HYDE: Good morning. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Well, in this particular case, this is a car that's already registered and operating under Naples Taxi, so that would already have a commercial designation, but it is correct that he asked about the new registrations, do they show the level, and they don't. MS. BAISLEY: Ekna, are you going through the registrations as they're given to you and checking with the county to make sure they're the right class of vehicle once the new registrations don't show that? MS. HU: Well, I call or I fax it to them, and then they respond. CHAIRMAN PEASE: I think the preference, maybe, would be fax. That way you can include that in our copy so we can see that for furore, if that's okay. MR. WALBURN: The reason -- the reason I think it's important that the insurance be issued to the operating company is because insurance is -- insurance rates and the viability of insurance policies are based on the performance of individuals that are the primary signature on the policies. So to have an arm's length transaction on leased vehicles and insurance just doesn't -- doesn't make good sense to me, if you're in business to have your own insurance policy issued to the corporation or the d/b/a so that the insurance company can do a background check on the property -- on the person that's paying the premiums and applying for the policy. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any other questions or comments? Do we have a motion? MS. BAISLEY: Not accepting -- CHAIRMAN PEASE: I'm sorry. No, it's not public comment. Comment for the committee. Page 8 January 7, 2002 Okay. Do we have a motion? Let the record show Mr. Csogi has also joined us. (Mr. Csogi enters meeting.) MR. CSOGI: Let the record show I apologize for being late. CHAIRMAN PEASE: The record so shown. MR. CSOGI: Thank you. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Is this going to go down for lack of a motion? MR. CSOGI: Are we on new business, Mr. Pease? CHAIRMAN PEASE: We are. I'm sorry. On the -- would you like a couple minutes to review the -- MR. HYDE: Yeah. I was trying to figure out where we were. CHAIRMAN PEASE: I'm sorry. Let me -- let me hold up on the motion request. We're on the very first one -- MR. HYDE: Okay. Good. CHAIRMAN PEASE: -- which is Pulo's Limo Service. MS. ARNOLD: Mr. Chairman, I believe there's a public request from the public to speak on this application. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Oh, there was? They turned in a slip? MS. ARNOLD: Well -- MR. PALMER: Mr. Bridenthal left a slip on this desk this morning, and I guess he wants to speak on something. It doesn't say what. MS. ARNOLD: On USA Taxi. CHAIRMAN PEASE: On any particular -- what item did they want to talk about? MS. ARNOLD: It's the -- the request slip says USA Taxi, but we don't have an -- Is this the item that you want to talk on? This is under public comment? CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Well, then let's go ahead and hold Page 9 January 7, 2002 off on that until we clear the three -- MS. BAISLEY: I have one other question on this application. Was this application sent to you in the mail or was it brought in by Christopher himself or -- MS. HU: It was brought in by Mister -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: I brought it in for Christopher. MS. BAISLEY: So we have never seen Christopher Pulichino? CHAIRMAN PEASE: Well, I don't know that that's required. MR. COKOROGIANIS: I asked that question, and I was told that he didn't have to appear. CHAIRMAN PEASE: We've done it with attorneys before and other people that stood in on their behalf, so I don't believe that this is any different. MR. COKOROGIANIS: Well, I don't know, Pat. I think it's time you start backing off from me, don't you? CHAIRMAN PEASE: Let's -- let's get the emotion out of this meeting right now. MR. SHRINER: Excuse me. On December -- on December the 10th of'01, his -- he resided at 210 Wall Street in Seattle, Washington-- MR. COKOROGIANIS: That's correct. MR. SHRINER: -- which is fine and -- but I can see she may be reading something like that and kind of wondering. MR. COKOROGIANIS: And I already explained to them that he's moving down here once I get him started. I'm trying to put a young fellow in business to come down here to Naples. MR. SHRINER: Far be it for me to say I wanted somebody not to be able to get into business -- MR. MR. MR. COKOROGIANIS: I understand. SHRINER: -- I'm trying hard -- COKOROGIANIS: But what I'm saying is, you can look -- Page 10 January 7, 2002 COURT REPORTER: Sir, please speak one at a time. MR. COKOROGIANIS: I apologize. He has no criminal record. He has a good financial report. He's got a good job now. He's secure, and he wants to come down to Naples to be near his mother too. MR. SHRINER: I'm certainly happy to take your word for it, but I would like to hear it from him, although, I'm not going to make a decision just based on what we're talking about. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Well -- and we can't because -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: I was not told -- I was not told that -- first I was told that he did not have to be here. I was told this. CHAIRMAN PEASE: He does not have to be here. MR. COKOROGIANIS: Does not have to be here. CHAIRMAN PEASE: We've accepted applications on attorneys -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: Exactly. All right. CHAIRMAN PEASE: -- and other representatives and family members. MR. COKOROGIANIS: So, I mean, am I supposed to take, say, another thousand from the guy and just come down here so you could see him? I don't think that's very fair. MR. WALBURN: Let me ask you -- let me ask you this, sir. MR. COKOROGIANIS: You tell me. MR. WALBURN: What has -- what has this young man done to be in business other than be your stepson? MR. COKOROGIANIS: What has he done to what? MR. WALBURN: To come into business besides be your stepson. MR. COKOROGIANIS: I don't understand that question. MR. WALBURN: What business plan has he put forth himself?. What has he done? You've given -- Page 11 January 7, 2002 MR. COKOROGIANIS: He's come -- he -- all right. He's been -- he worked for me for three to four months. I showed him the business. Okay? MR. WALBURN: I understand that. MR. COKOROGIANIS: He's got experience from me. He's going to get a lot more experience from me. MR. WALBURN: What would he do to be in business if you didn't exist? Let me ask it that way. Would he have his own vehicle? Would he have his own business plan? MR. COKOROGIANIS: That's a very unfair question. I can't answer what he would have done. I can't answer that. Would you be able to answer a question like that? MR. WALBURN: Well, I know when most people go in business, they have a business plan. They have a business model and that includes-- MR. COKOROGIANIS: His plan is to come with me. MR. WALBURN: -- liability insurance -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: His plan is to come with me. COURT REPORTER: Sir, please speak one at a time. MR. COKOROGIANIS: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. MR. WALBURN: I mean, I'm troubled by the fact that you're loaning him a vehicle, I suppose, or leasing it -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: No. I'm going to give it to him now. MR. WALBURN: Fine. You're going to give it to him. It's his vehicle. MR. COKOROGIANIS: That's correct. MR. WALBURN: He needs the insurance issued -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: That's correct. MR. WALBURN: -- in the name of his company name or his personal name -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: That'll be done today. Page 12 January7,2002 MR. WALBURN: -- and when that's done, then I could -- I could support him going into business. Until then, it seems to me that something's not in order here. I don't know exactly what. MR. COKOROGIANIS: That'll be done today. That's not a problem. If I knew that, it would've been done already. I didn't know that. Okay? MR. WALBURN: Well, ifI rode in his vehicle -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: Uh-huh. MR. WALBURN: -- and stumbled getting in and out of it, I don't know who I would go to for-- for satisfaction if I had medical bills. CHAIRMAN PEASE: We have -- we have approved candidates, pending insurance -- proof of insurance that meet -- in other words, you can make a motion, Allen, that would say, I make a motion we approve this candidate, pending that the appropriate insurance is in the correct name and staff-- and staff-- it then becomes their job to make sure they don't get their permit to operate until such time that they have met all the criteria of the motion. MR. WALBURN: Okay. CHAIRMAN PEASE: That could be pending. Background check, that could be pending, you know -- MR. WALBURN: Any kind of-- CHAIRMAN PEASE: -- anything that's not here that's supposed to be here, and we've done that on a -- on a regular basis. MR. CSOGI: Mr. Pease? CHAIRMAN PEASE: Yes, sir. MR. CSOGI: A question quickly. In regards to the new documents that got approved with the criminal-background check, are they providing that to code enforcement when they get the permit or are they -- now that we've got new applications, are they providing Page 13 January 7, 2002 that with applications or are they simply signing an affidavit that they've done the search? MS. HU: Are you talking about the drivers or are you talking about applications themselves? MR. CSOGI: The drivers -- the person -- the drivers, because this is a -- this is an application from, I guess, a single driver starting up a solo company. So I would think it would have to submit either an affidavit that he's done it himself-- it on himself or he submitted a criminal-history search. MS. HU: We agreed that we -- and I believe it's in the ordinance that they have to give us a copy of their background check as well as the affidavit that they need to sign. MR. CSOGI: Do we have a copy of that for this customer? MS. HU: No, because we haven't started that and because he -- he can't get a driver ID if he doesn't have a company. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Yes, he can. Yes, he can. Driver ID has no relationship on the company. MR. CSOGI: Right. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any -- anybody can come in, but I'm not sure that the application's contingent on that. I think it's something that has to happen, but I'm not sure that it's contingent on approval. MR. CSOGI: It's contingent on a driver's ID, though, so he can't get a driver's ID without it. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Right. MR. CSOGI: Right. MS. ARNOLD: We've done a criminal-background check on the business applicant right now. What you're asking about is the driver. In this particular case, the driver and the applicant are the same individual. But to answer your question about the drivers, we would require a copy of that-- actually, background check, before we issue the IDs for each individual driver. Page 14 January 7, 2002 MR. CSOGI: So the ordinance is only requiring background checks on drivers, so the business owners don't require background checks? MS. ARNOLD: We do that as a part of the application process. MR. CSOGI: And we have one for this applicant? MS. HU: Yes. We've always done that. MR. CSOGI: And did we revise it to go nationwide or is it -- is it still local? MS. HU: We only have access for statewide. MS. ARNOLD: State. MR. CSOGI: Statewide. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Could the microphones be turned up just a little bit. I'm having a little problem. Maybe the sound system -- MR. CSOGI: I'll make a motion. CHAIRMAN PEASE: What is your motion? MR. CSOGI: I'll make a motion we approve, pending the name change on the insurance. I think that's about it. I think that's the only thing I can see. MS. ARNOLD: I think we do have a comment from the floor in terms -- for this particular process. I think Mr. Baisley has a comment. CHAIRMAN PEASE: They've -- they've turned in a slip? Generally, public comment, though, on the agenda is prior to these requests being done. I'll go ahead and accept the public comment at this time, but for future -- you know, let the record show that public comment happens prior to the review of these companies. And it's on this particular topic that there's been a request made? MS. BAISLEY: But I don't know that -- if I totally agree with that, that it should be made before applications are even looked at because the public doesn't have the application to look at. They don't know what the things we're discussing are until they come up. Page 15 January 7, 2002 MR. PALMER: Yeah. Public comment more on the general issue, not as a reference to a particular case under review. CHAIRMAN PEASE: So it can occur anytime -- MR. PALMER: There's no problem with somebody coming up and making an observation to the board about something they may know about, in fact, and makes some comment or suggestion to the board about a particular application. That -- in fact, that's -- that's constructive to the process. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. MR. PALMER: But general public comment are more on general issues. They're not related to whether you should grant or deny a specific application. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Then we'll call the -- who was that? MS. HU: Russell Baisley. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Russell Baisley, if you want to go to this stand over here and be sworn in. (The oath was administered.) MR. BAISLEY: My name is Russ Baisley. My comment concerning Mr. Cokorogianis' son was -- application concerns a legal battle that's going on between the previous owner of Naples Taxi and Mr. Cokorogianis in which they-- under the Freedom of Information Act, copies of leases were obtained that were submitted to Collier County. They were assigned by allegedly Walter Centomini, the previous owner of the company, allowing Naples Taxi to use the vehicles. Three of those vehicles' leases -- Mr. Centomini informed code enforcement that they were not his signatures. There's a number of other vehicles that are -- do not appear to be permitted. They are operated in Collier County. That's been drawn to Ekna's attention. I think there's enough ongoing investigation or should be enough ongoing investigation to table this and finish the Page 16 January 7, 2002 investigation thing out here. It's a serious -- I would think the false filing would be a serious issue. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Does the committee have any questions for-- MR. COKOROGIANIS: May I speak in my defense, please? CHAIRMAN PEASE: Does the committee have any comment or questions for the public speaker? MR. CSOGI: I have a question. So what you're saying is the single -- the sole vehicle that he is going to lease from Naples Taxi -- MR. BAISLEY: I don't know which vehicle he's using. I know that three vehicles that leases were obtained from Collier County records to operate in this current year, three of those leases Walter Centomini informed code enforcement that they were leased without his signature. His signature was put on fraudulently on the leases to Naples Taxi for the operating permit. CHAIRMAN PEASE: George, do you want -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: Okay. First -- first of all, I'd like to comment as far as -- since he's bringing out myself and Walter Centomini. If you remember, when I was first issued the license under Naples Taxi, my lawyer was here and -- because Mr. Centomini sold me a business that didn't exist, as Ms. Baisley brought up at that meeting. As we all know, the two corporations -- and God only knows, three days before the meeting, how Russ Baisley found out and purchased Naples Taxicab, Inc., and Naples Taxi Service, Inc. Didn't we check Mr. Baisley's criminal background out of state since we're getting here? We all know and I have an article in my desk stating that he, himself and his wife, who is on our board, was arrested for a misdemeanor, and he was convicted of fraud. So I don't have any record. I don't understand what's going on here, that he's allowed to speak against me like this. Okay? I just Page 17 January 7, 2002 don't understand this. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. You've had your opportunity to speak. Does anybody have any questions for -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: And this has nothing to do with Mr. Pulichino. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Does anybody have any questions for public comment? MR. CSOGI: I've a question for Mr. Cokorogianis, but he's not public comment. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Let me go ahead and get clear of public comment here. MR. SHRINER: The -- son? MR. COKOROGIANIS: Stepson. MR. SHRINER: -- stepson put in for an application to have a sedan service in Collier County, and it seems like you're talking about Naples? MR. COKOROGIANIS: That's what I'm saying. I don't know what it has to do with Christopher. MR. SHRINER: So go ahead, sir, the relevance. MR. BAISLEY: The thrust of the relevance is that there are some false filings that are being investigated or should be being investigated, whether it'll be fraudulent statements issued. Whether or not who owns Naples Taxi or whatever, it speaks to the character whose -- of the person who's testifying to you. If they submitted false filings to the county, notarized false filings, I would think it would draw into questions the rest of the statements. MR. SHRINER: I appreciate your bringing this to our attention, but give me something. You said you have this information. Do I have a picture? MR. BAISLEY: It's been furnished to code enforcement, and it came out of code enforcement's files, their leases for the vehicles that Page 18 January 7, 2002 Walter Centomini owned personally and leased to Naples Taxi. Do you have those in your file? MS. ARNOLD: But I believe that's a separate investigation. It's a different company altogether. You're getting an application for someone else. Although they're related to the gentleman that's standing in front of you, it's a separate -- individual, separate company, and the vehicle that's in question that's being leased is not one of the ones that it's in question in that investigation. MS. BAISLEY: I think the concern that I have about it is that because Christopher Pulichino is not here, we don't know if we have another case of fraud being presented to us. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Alleged fraud -- alleged fraud. MR. COKOROGIANIS: Wait a minute. Are you accusing me of fraud? CHAIRMAN PEASE: Hold it. A lot of emotion again in this -- in this room. Does anybody have -- I have some concerns -- concerns about relevance, too, but is there any other questions or comments for Mr. Baisley? MR. SHRINER: Well, I guess I finished mine, but if you bring it in front of us, then I have to have a piece of paper even though it's with code enforcement. I mean, anything we can do, please, that's all I can say. CHAIRMAN PEASE: All right. We'll go ahead and close public comment. And thank you, Mr. Baisley. I want to clear up one statement made. First of all, Mr. Baisley is not a owner of Yellow Cab. Pat Baisley is. Pat Baisley has no criminal issues of any kind. I want to clear that up for the public record. MS. BAISLEY: That's incorrect. I do, but they're not in the limitation of the -- CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. Page 19 January 7, 2002 You're -- you're in total compliance with the ordinance. MS. BAISLEY: That's correct. That's totally correct. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. All right. Mr. Palmer, does this have any relevance at all to the issue at hand with this particular company? MR. PALMER: No. I don't see any direct relevance. In fact, I don't know how they're tied in. The assumption would be that if this man did something wrong in regard to that matter that was discussed, whether that could presume that he's making a fraudulent application in this instance, there's just no evidence of that at all. We don't know what happened in regard to that matter, although there's something being questioned. There's certainly no evidence in the record today that would assume that this application is fraudulent. That can't be presumed, and I don't see any basis myself for even a continuance. If, in fact, it should be discovered that this application is fraudulent tomorrow, next week or next month, then something can be done about it, but until that happens, this has to be presumed to be a valid application. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Mr. Csogi, you had a question before we call for a motion? MR. CSOGI: Yeah. Mr. Cokorogianis, on this vehicle that you're leasing to Christopher, do you own the vehicle? MR. COKOROGIANIS: Yes, I do. MR. CSOGI: Okay. And you're leasing -- MR. COKOROGIANIS: Personally, yes, I do. MR. CSOGI: -- and you're leasing it to Christopher? MR. COKOROGIANIS: Yes. MR. CSOGI: That's all I wanted to hear on the record. So I'll stand with my original motion. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do we have a second? Page 20 January 7, 2002 MR. HYDE: Second. CHAIRMAN PEASE: All those in favor say aye. MR. CSOGI: Aye. MR. HYDE: Aye. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Aye. Opposed? MS. BAISLEY: Opposed. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Motion passes, what, 1, 2, 3, 4 -- 5-1, if my math is correct. MR. WALBURN: I didn't say anything. CHAIRMAN PEASE: You didn't say anything? MR. WALBURN: I didn't say anything. CHAIRMAN PEASE: 4-1 and-- MR. SHRINER: I didn't say anything either. I'm not sure what the motion was. I'm staying out of this one. CHAIRMAN PEASE: You're abstaining -- oh, you're an alternate. Okay. Was he an alternate? MS. BAISLEY: Is he the alternate? MS. HU: Yes. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. So alternates don't actually vote unless there's not a quorum? MS. HU: Right. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. So the motion carried, then, 1, 2, 3--3-1 and 1 abstain. MR. PALMER: Well, no, you just can't abstain just because you want to abstain. There's got to be a legal basis for an abstentions. MS. HU: Right. CHAIRMAN PEASE: You're not off the hook. MR. SHRINER: Thank you. But I understood from ones I've seen before, applications, there was always a financial statement available and I haven't made -- don't have a financial statement. MR. COKOROGIANIS: They have a financial statement. Page 21 January 7, 2002 MS. MR. MS. MR. money in car or the town. I don't know the car's going to be maintained properly. to see at least a $20,000 cash asset that he -- CHAIRMAN PEASE: So what is your vote? MS. ARNOLD: We don't require -- we -- CHAIRMAN PEASE: We don't require that. MR. SHRINER: I know we don't, but I'm just saying that this is a very odd situation. CHAIRMAN PEASE: So what's your vote? MR. SHRINER: I'm not for it. MS. HU: I would like to make the comment -- and this is just generally on everything, and this is according to everything -- according to the records and the experience that I've gone through this. First of all, it's not the first time that the actual applicant does not show in person to the meeting or even to submit the papers. That happened in the previous meeting. I still today don't know the person or the owner personally. And, second of all, there's a couple of companies that all their vehicles are leased. They don't own one. And, third of all, he already cleared it, but the vehicle that he or Pulo's Limo Service is applying with is George Cokorogianis -- it's registered for George. So it would clear Walter. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Motion carries 3-2. Next item of business is request-- Thank you. Good luck to your son-in-law. Motion -- I'm sorry. New business. New item. HU: There -- there's a record. SHRINER: There is a financial statement? HU: There should be a credit report. SHRINER: I see the credit report, but I meant financial, the bank and standing. Because we have a person with one stepson, I don't know that he can afford the gas to get out of I'd like Page 22 January 7, 2002 Francis Pappas. Is Francis Pappas here or a representative for Dolphin Transportation Specialists? He needs to be sworn in, please. (The oath was administered.) MR. PAPPS: I am Francis Papps, P-a-p-p-s. No "A" before the ttSot! CHAIRMAN PEASE: I'm sorry, Mr. Papps. MR. PAPPS: No problem. MS. BAISLEY: Mr. Papps, you currently don't own any vehicles that you were going to -- MR. PAPPS: I own over 30 vehicles at this time. CHAIRMAN PEASE: For this county? MS. BAISLEY: For this county? MR. PAPPS: For this county, no. I have vehicles that have approved. I will register. MR. WALBURN: It appears you have insurance in your company name, too? MR. PAPPS: Yes, sir. MS. BAISLEY: Do we have a credit report on the corporation as well as Mr. Papps personally? The corporation is an existing corporation; is that correct? MR. PAPPS: No corporation. MS. BAISLEY: Oh, it's not? MR. CSOGI: He's a sole proprietor. MS. BAISLEY: Excuse me. MR. PALMER: Is this a home occupation? Are you operating this out of your house? MR. PAPPS: I am, to start with. MR. PALMER: Well, okay, to start with. Because you understand you cannot operate more than two vehicles out of the residence. MR. PAPPS: I do. Page 23 January 7, 2002 MR. PALMER: Okay. CHAIRMAN PEASE: The only concern I had when I was looking at the paperwork was, are the standards that are in the ordinance -- could an antique vehicle be in compliance with the standards we put in the new ordinance? MS. BAISLEY: There is currently an antique vehicle that's operating through Checker Cab. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Does it meet all the requirements of the ordinance? MR. CSOGI: I think, Mr. Pease, the requirements of the ordinance is that the car's in good working order. I mean, as long as it's in good working order, I don't think there's any statute of limitations on the age of the vehicle. CHAIRMAN PEASE: No. I wasn't questioning that. I was worried that when we thought through the whole ordinance process, we were thinking about current late models and not about an antique vehicle. MR. CSOGI: Well, if you -- if you remember, I brought up that subject concerning -- concerning that and concerning horse and buggies on Fifth Avenue, and I was -- that whole topic was tabled. So I did bring it up. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Well, horse and buggy -- horse and buggy would be a little different. MR. CSOGI: No. They go 20 miles an hour. I mean, it's not much different. That's what was my concern back then. I mean, now there's a guy, I read in the paper a couple weeks ago, that wants to run people around on his back and -- yeah, pedal cab. MS. BAISLEY: He is operating. CHAIRMAN PEASE: He's operating, yeah. MS. HU: Bicycles. MR. CSOGI: Yeah. He can probably get going 10-15 miles an Page 24 January 7, 2002 hour also so -- and there's hazards there I don't see any different from an antique vehicle. CHAIRMAN PEASE: I'm not sure I was concerned about speed. I just was making, you know, a general observation that -- that when we looked at each and every item that was specifically supposed to be approved, I'm not sure -- MR. PALMER: No. We do not have an age limitation, provided the vehicle in question meets the standards. New York City just got rid of-- a taxicab in New York City must be five years old or shorter. A vehicle in New York City, once it reaches a five-year life, can no longer be operated as a taxicab in New York City. We do not have any similar provision in our ordinance. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any other questions or comments? (No response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do we have a motion? MR. CSOGI: I'll make a motion we approve, pending proper assignment of insurance to the Board of County Commissioners and the vehicle identification numbers being given to the county prior to registration. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do we have a second? MR. SHRINER: I'll second. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Second made. All those in favor say (Unanimous response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: (No response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Motion passes. MR. PAPPS: Thank you. name right, Michael McNaboe. Opposed. Everybody vote? Good luck. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Next item. I hope I pronounce the last Help me out. Page 25 January 7, 2002 MR. MCNABOE: Close, McNaboe. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Wasn't even close, but thank you for being courteous. Sworn in, please. (The oath was administered.) MR. MCNABOE: Michael McNaboe, M-c-N-a-b-o-e. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Well, the obvious first question and I'll direct to Mr. Palmer and that's in relationship to the background, criminal background. MR. PALMER: Yeah. They're all beyond the time, the relevant time limit. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. All right. So that is a non-issue for a decision-making process by this committee? MR. PALMER: It would not be a basis to deny. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Right. Okay. MS. BAISLEY: If we could make -- in the new ordinance, we made the regulation that they could have two vehicles per household as long as they were husband and wife or had a -- MR. PALMER: Immediate family residing in the -- in the house. MS. BAISLEY: You understand that part of the ordinance? MR. MCNABOE: Yes, ma'am. MR. SHRINER: You showed two limos here -- 1997 -- two 1997s, one eight- to ten-passenger. Are they licensed in the State of Florida? There's no numbers here. MR. MCNABOE: Registered in the State of Florida? MR. SHRINER: Well, the license plate. MR. MCNABOE: Yes, they are. MR. SHRINER: You probably just didn't fill it in. MR. MCNABOE: I'm sorry. MS. BAISLEY: Are you currently operating any of these vehicles in Collier County? Page 26 January 7, 2002 MR. MCNABOE: Am I currently operating them? No. I own them. They're at my house, but no, they're not open for business. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any other questions or comment? MR. CSOGI: I've got a question on the length of time for the background check for offenses. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. MR. CSOGI: What's the length of time? MR. PALMER: It's three years. MR. CSOGI: It's just three years? Okay. I'll make a motion we approve, pending proper insurance assignment to the Board of County Commissioners. CHAIRMAN PEASE: We have a motion. Do we have a second? MS. BAISLEY: I'll second that motion. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Second made. All those in favor say (Unanimous response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: (No response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: Opposed. Motion carries. Good luck. MR. MCNABOE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Public comment. MS. ARNOLD: Jack Bridenthal has a public comment. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Identify yourself, please. MR. BRIDENTHAL: I'm Jack Bridenthal of USA Taxi. I have a question to ask of the board. For the last seven years, I have been the sole operator of the company, but I do have a silent partner. And per the ordinance, both the current one and the previous one, for transfer of more than 24 percent, you need board approval. I would like to have board approval to buy out the silent partner, even though he's never been involved, and question if it would cause a further Page 27 January 7, 2002 problem if the balance of shares were in my wife, son, and daughter's name. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Tom. MR. PALMER: If they would all qualify under the provisions of officers of the corporation, there would be no problem with it at all, no. It's only a question of their bona fides, which I'm presuming are just fine. MR. BRIDENTHAL: with EMS. MR. PALMER: Sure. MR. BRIDENTHAL: company. Yeah. One's a sheriff. One's a lieutenant My wife's been involved with the MR. PALMER: As a matter of fact, I -- do we have a matter of record about your silent partner? Because if not, you wouldn't even need the authorization of the board to buy him out. MR. BRIDENTHAL: Oh, yeah. He's on there -- MR. PALMER: He's on there. MR. BRIDENTHAL: -- the corporation. MR. PALMER: All right. So this would be a transfer -- effective ownership of his share to you? MR. BRIDENTHAL: Yes. MR. PALMER: And you want to put your -- your relatives on as shareholders? MR. BRIDENTHAL: Yes. MR. PALMER: Yeah. CHAIRMAN PEASE: before us again? There's no legal prohibition against that. They don't -- he doesn't have to come MR. PALMER: Well, it's just a matter of these -- what is it, 5 percent, or is it officer-director? Depending on their status with the company, there are some of these qualifications. I don't know the exact parameters. Page 28 January 7, 2002 MR. BRIDENTHAL: I assume they'd have to have a background check turned in. MS. BAISLEY: Right. MR. PALMER: I think if they're officers of the corporation. ! don't think if they're stockholders, unless they own a certain percentage of the company. Stockholders, generally, you don't worry about them unless they have a controlling interest and effectively are -- are setting policy of the company, but you want them on as officers or just stockholders. MR. BRIDENTHAL: Not necessarily as officers. MR. PALMER: All right. MR. BRIDENTHAL: It would be a minority stock, but it does say in the ordinance that you have to have PVAC approval for transfer of more than 24 percent. MR. PALMER: All right. So that's the buyout. MR. BRIDENTHAL: CHAIRMAN PEASE: out the proper information. to do? MR. BRIDENTHAL: the three parties that -- This will be more than 24 percent. That needs to be put on -- he needs to fill He has to redo that. Is that what he has No. I think just a background check on MR. PALMER: -- are coming in? Are coming in. MR. BRIDENTHAL: Yeah. MR. PALMER: Well, stock ownership, I think, would-- and I don't know the parameters, but I think that would depend on the extent of ownership. If you're a minority stockholder in this corporation, we don't have to know anything about them. It's a -- it's a question of the percentage of the ownership. MR. BRIDENTHAL: Okay. How about, like, 15, 15 and 20, and I have the other 50? MS. HU: I believe it's every person that owns 10 percent or Page 29 January 7, 2002 more. MR. PALMER: Ten percent or more. Okay. That's the rule then, 10 percent or more. CHAIRMAN PEASE: So he needs to provide the criminal- background checks, needs to get it on the PVAC agenda. Is that -- MR. PALMER: As a matter of fact, I would think he could probably do this in, more or less, a letter application with appropriate attachments to it. MR. BRIDENTHAL: I think, as I understood it, it would be your approval today and furnish the staff with the proper paperwork. MR. PALMER: Well, you could do that. If you set parameters, you could do it, subject to staff confirming A, B, and C. CHAIRMAN PEASE: I don't have a problem with that happening, if-- if somebody wants to make the motion. MR. CSOGI: I'll be more than happy to make a motion. MR. HYDE: I'll second it. CHAIRMAN PEASE: (No response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: (Unanimous response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: (No response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: MR. BRIDENTHAL: CHAIRMAN PEASE: MR. BRIDENTHAL: Any discussion before we vote? Okay. All those in favor say aye. Opposed. Motion carries. Thank you, sir. Thank you. But one small comment. Might need an amendment already on the new ordinance on these antiques to not have air-conditioning. Should be something in there, if factory available. CHAIRMAN PEASE: They have air when they're going 30 miles an hour. Page 30 January 7, 2002 MR. CSOGI: Actually, there is something in there. It should be all equipment from the factory is in working order. That's the way it reads. CHAIRMAN PEASE: The idea is not to shut those out. MR. BRIDENTHAL: No. I think they need to be out there, but it may or may not be already in there. MR. CSOGI: It is in there. I made sure it was in there. It's everything from the factory is working because we had a discussion on third brake lights that weren't from the factory. We're not going to penalize you guys if they're not working. MR. PALMER: Let me clarify one thing in regard to the applicable criminal time frames. It's five years if you're an officer, owner, director, or manager and three years if you're a driver. But in any event, these are all beyond those time lines. MR. CSOGI: It --'92 was the last one. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Old business. The ordinance, of course, I think everybody's familiar with -- the ordinance did pass as written last month. And I sent a e-mail to the county commissioners that I'd like to make part of the public record. I will try and read slow. It said (as read): "Thank you for the passing of the transportation ordinance last night. Taking on the project of updating the ordinance after eight years was a task that took great effort on everyone's part. Please allow me the opportunity to thank the following people for their assistance: "First of all, the PVAC committee worked hard each month for over eight months. We talked through, debated, and challenged one another as we formed this ordinance. This is probably one of the best PVAC committees we have had. Each one donated an extensive amount of time in order to produce the document you passed. "Staff was also very instrumental in this new ordinance. Michelle Arnold and Ekna Hu did an outstanding job. Michelle's Page 31 January 7, 2002 knowledge and professionalism is a great asset to Collier County. Ekna is new to our team, picked it up very quickly and provided valuable input. Should I be selected to serve another one-year term as chairperson of the PVAC, I look forward to working with code enforcement on the enforcement of the ordinance. "Tom Palmer should also be commended. Tom has a transportation background and has a great influence on the PVAC. He helps guide us through the legal issues to ensure a document that not only makes sense, but has the proper structure to be enforceable. "Again, thank you for your approval. It is a pleasure to serve you. If I can be of further assistance, do not hesitate to call." Jim Coletta -- Commissioner Coletta's response said (as read): "You and your committee are to be commended for the hours of work that you have given. Thank you-all for bringing this ordinance to a successful conclusion. The best of the holiday season to you-all. I hope that the coming year will prove to be a good one for your businesses." Discussion-- any discussion from staff on the quarterly complaint report? MS. HU: They have been reported to our investigators, the complaints that I received. They have been chasing them, but we haven't been able to find them in the act per se. MS. ARNOLD: We have had instances where we followed a vehicle, for example, and one that was questioned, and upon them stopping there weren't any passengers, so it was difficult for us to say that they were actually violating -- CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. The -- any other questions, comments on the quarterly complaint report? Election of officers. MS. ARNOLD: One item -- if I may -- I'm sorry. I forgot to mention, Ekna did provide you-all a copy of the annual advisory Page 32 January 7, 2002 board review. This is something that's done and required by -- of all the advisory boards of the Board of County Commissioners. If you can take a few minutes to go over and look at that, it's -- it's pretty self-explanatory. We try to highlight for the board some of the things that the committee has done, and the intent of this is to insure that the objective of the advisory board is being met. MR. HYDE: Can I make one comment? There was a -- to be on the board, you had to have a disclosure of your financial assets. When dropping that off at the Tax Collector's Office, there was no one in the entire place, I spoke to, like, seven or eight people -- no one had a clue what this was all about. MS. ARNOLD: It should be dropped off at the Supervisor of Elections Office. MR. HYDE: Yeah, that's -- which was the one. We did that, and everybody was like, "Okay. Great but -- okay. We don't know where to send it." So I gave them your name. So I don't know if that meant anything, but they -- they accepted it but after going through a whole bunch of people. It was just pretty interesting. Didn't do anything for me. MR. WALBURN: And, really, their entire authority on that is just to maintain whatever you turned in. They really have no authority to verify or order additional information whatsoever. MR. PALMER: That's right. They're just a repository of the document. MR. WALBURN: That's it. MR. PALMER: Although, somebody down there ought to be intimately familiar with this. They're probably getting hundreds of them every year, or they should be, and somebody ought to know where they are being retained down there at the Supervisor of Elections Office. So you must have maybe talked to a new employee or somebody that just was out of the loop. But there are people down Page 33 January 7, 2002 there that know about the ins and outs of these forms. MR. HYDE: Okay. Good. MR. PALMER: You also noticed the perfunctory -- the very perfunctory nature of that form. It is really sort of a nondisclosure disclosure. It's so general that it doesn't really tell much to the reader. MR. WALBURN: It's a waste of good ink, is what it is. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Nominations. As you know, the new ordinance requires a vote on the election of officers on an annual basis. MS. ARNOLD: Can I -- can I just have -- so all of you have accepted that report? Is that okay? We need that acceptance before we send it to the Board of County Commissioners. CHAIRMAN PEASE: All right. Thank you for keeping me straight. As you can see, I'm still learning the job. Do we have a motion to accept the report or question or comment on the report? MR. SHRINER: Is it doing what it's set out to do? Is the board doing what it's set out to do? CHAIRMAN PEASE: We're working on it. MR. SHRINER: Okay. MS. ARNOLD: I think you guys are. MR. PALMER: What it is -- the board-- the county has so many boards. They want, what is it, every two years that there's a schedule of when these things are to be filed to make sure that all the boards are effectively functioning, or whether they've lost their function is really what this is all about. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do we have a motion to accept the report? MR. SHRINER: I'll make a motion to accept the report. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Motion made. Do we have a second? MR. HYDE: Second. Page 34 January 7, 2002 CHAIRMAN PEASE: (Unanimous response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: (No response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: All those in favor say aye. Opposed. Motion carries. Election of officers now? The new ordinance requires an annual election of officers. Do we have any nominations? MR. PALMER: Nominations do not require a second. You nominate as many as you want and then you vote. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Thank you, Tom. MR. CSOGI: I'll make a nomination of Mr. Pease. I think he's conformed to the job very well this past year, and I'd like to see him provide another year of service, or two years, whatever the length is. Is it one year? CHAIRMAN PEASE: One year. MR. CSOGI: One year. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Other nominations? MR. PALMER: Somebody can move that nominations be closed. MR. CSOGI: I'll move to close them. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Is there a vote note? MR. PALMER: If you accept the position, apparently, it's by acclamation. CHAIRMAN PEASE: I'll accept the position. I really want to tackle enforcement this year, and then I'll be ready to mm the reins over to get some new blood, because I do believe in new blood. But I want to -- I want to hit enforcement -- as hard as we hit the ordinance I want to hit enforcement this year. MR. CSOGI: That's what I'd like to do. MR. SHRINER: From our purpose and from the first item on the review, the purpose, I mean, how much enforcement can we ask? Page 35 January 7, 2002 We're an advisory board. CHAIRMAN PEASE: That's what we're -- we're actually a pretty strong advisory board. MR. PALMER: Actually, we're considerably more than an advisory board. MR. SHRINER: MR. PALMER: with our employees. violations take on the characterization of moving violations on the road, and really in order that -- effectively, we need the assistance of a deputy sheriff. It's cumbersome for a code enforcement board to enforce a certain aspect of these moving violations. Apart from that, we've got very effective enforcement. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Well -- and I think code enforcement is already headed in that direction. They told me a couple of things. I want to get involved on the sheriff side as well, and I appreciate your support, and thank you for the nomination, and we'll work hard, everyone as a group. I'm only as good as the people that we're with. I think we had a heck of a board this year -- or last year, and I think this year will prove to be just as strong. Next meeting date, April 2002. Do I have a motion to adjourn? MS. BAISLEY: Don't we need a vice chairman? CHAIRMAN PEASE: Oh, we need a vice chair? Oh, that's right. We do. MS. BAISLEY: Cliff used to be the vice chair. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Nominations for vice chair. Any other nominations? (No response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. The fact is, is that we can enforce it at our level The problem with it is that a number of these And Cliff is no longer with us. I would like to nominate William Csogi. I close the nominations. All those in favor? Page 36 January 7, 2002 (No response.) CHAIRMAN PEASE: By acclamation it's done. Congratulations. MR. CSOGI: I accept. Thank you. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Now, do we have a motion to adjourn? MR. SHRINER: I'll make a motion to adjourn. CHAIRMAN PEASE: Meeting so adjourned. There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:10 a.m. PUBLIC VEHICLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE BRYAN L. S. PEASE, CHAIRMAN TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING, INC., BY CAROLYN J. FORD Page 37