BCC Minutes 12/18/2001 S (AUIR)December 18, 2001
SPECIAL MEETING OF
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
DECEMBER 18, 2001
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9 a.m. In SPECIAL
SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples,
Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
VI CE CHAIRMAN:
JAMES D. CARTER, PH.D
JIM COLETTA
DONNA FIALA
TOM HENNING
FRED COYLE
ALSO PRESENT:
TOM OLLIFF, County Manager
DAVID WEIGEL, County Attorney
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NOTICE OF BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
SPECIAL MEETING
Friday, November 30, 2001 - 2:00 P.M.
CONTINUED TO DECEMBER 18, 2001 -9:00 A.M.
Notice is hereby given that the Collier County Board of County Commissioners
will hold Special Meeting on FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 30, 2001 at 2:00 P.M., in the
Board Meeting Room, Third Floor, Harmon Turner Building (Administration), at the
Collier County Government Complex, 3301 East Tamiami Trail, Naples, Florida. The
Special Meeting will include, but may not be limited to, the following:
Presentation of the 2001 Annual Update and Inventory Report on
Public Facilities (AUIR) as required by Section 3.15.6, Collier County Land
Development Code.
The meeting is open to the public.
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this Board will need a record of
the proceedings pertaining thereto, and therefore may need to ensure that a verbatim
record of the proceedings is made, which record incl~tdes the testimony and evidence
upon which the appeal is to be based.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
James D. Carter, Ph.D., Chairman
DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK
By:/s/Maureen Kenyon
Deputy Clerk
December 18, 2001
CHAIILMAN CARTER: We are live. Good morning,
Commissioners.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Merry Christmas, and happy holidays
to everyone here and to our listening and viewing audience this
morning. This is a continuation of a workshop from November 30th.
But for those of you joining us and not understanding what we're
doing, it's called an AUIR workshop. It's an annual update and
inventory review of our -- of our facilities and what we're going to do
with them. But since it is a continuation, but as is our tradition, I
would still like you-all to ,join with me in the Pledge of Allegiance to
the flag.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: As we start this morning, I would like
to share a couple things with the new commissioners who have been
here for a year or less. This is the third year I've been through this
process. I will say the first time it was confusing, perhaps the second
time even a little more confusing in terms of how you put into
perspective what an annual update means in terms of your facilities
as strategic long-range planning.
This is the first board that has ever engaged in a plethora of
workshops. I believe, Mr. Olliff, as we will finish tomorrow night,
we have met 62 times this year, pretty close to that.
MR. OLLIFF: Actually, it's 64 by the time of the end of the
year comes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: By the end of the year. That's 64
times that this Board of County Commissioners has met for all of our
meetings. That should demonstrate, I think, to everyone that we are
very dedicated and sincere in trying to resolve the problems that --
that face us as a county.
As a little background to this, when I first came to this board in
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December 18, 2001
1999, to my left -- I'm going to show this morning two volumes. It
was called facilities planning for Collier County. It was a very
detailed study. I find pieces of that integrating itself into the system.
But I am not proud that the board at that time probably gave that
study a grand total of ten minutes, and I'll never forget the -- Skip
Camp, our facilities director, coming and briefing and working with
us on that. And I was really excited because I thought that was a
long-range plan for Collier County, and we want to integrate that into
everything we do. It got blown off. And ! was shocked, but later I
saw little bits and pieces come back into the process, but that's not
what we need to do as a Board of County Commissioners. That study
was probably worth a couple hundred thousand dollars.
We went out, and we did a study on community character. I
don't know how many hundreds of hours are in this study, but I will
tell you it's about $400,000 bill here coming up with the balance that
we're looking for in this community between what we call quality of
life and economic feasibility of getting these things to work.
Our transportation plan, I -- I have no idea how many hours
Norman Feder and his group put into that and what it cost us, but it
was an enormous amount of time, energy, and effort at the request of
the board to come up with a 20~year plan for transportation. We have
the plan, and it will be a major part of our discussion this morning.
We cannot ignore that kind of dedication.
The only plan that I saw come in front of this board that was
addressed immediately and with great respect and took action on was
the water and sewer treatment plant, and I think that was at a crisis.
Mr. Mudd brought all this to us. We're under -- we're under order by
DEP, and, gee, we got to do something. But we did it. It's in place
with great action by the board.
But crisis management is not where we need to be, and if we
don't stop doing crisis management, whatever we decide today is
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December 18, 2001
going to be nothing more than a train wreck four or five years out.
And I think I would be ashamed as a commissioner to say four or five
years from now when I'm no longer on this board that, gee, I didn't do
the job back in 2001 because it was short-term thinking or political
expediency or, frankly, the lack of guts to do what needs to be done.
And I would tell you this morning whatever we do as a board, we
will do it to the best of our abilities and I'm sure with the resources
we have to work with.
I have communicated -- I know other members of this board
have communicated the needs of this community. Somewhere along
the line we have failed to point out the cred -- the critical need we
have to get the infrastructure in place. People tell me stop growth.
You tell me how. Anybody, tell me how do you do that? How do
you stop people from coming to an area they want to be in? You
can't do that. You manage growth, and that's what we're trying to do
is manage growth in a logical way, in an economically feasible way
to provide all of these facilities that are necessary.
Frankly, my position this morning as a commissioner is I'm tired
of studies. It's time for action. And if we don't do what we need to
do, it's just going to prolong the agony for this community. So it's
tough decisions in here this morning. But I believe this board will do
it. I thank you, Board, for your patience and your indulgence with
my comments this morning. A million dollars sitting here on the
table, ! think it's time to lay the blacktop.
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, this is a continuation of your
annual update and inventory report session. What we would like to
do, just in terms of sequence this morning, is to cover the other
elements prior to transportation and then take transportation last
because I -- I believe that's where the bulk of the discussion and focus
needs to be. So if-- if the board's okay with that schedule, I'd just
turn this meeting over to Stan Litsinger, your growth management
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December 18, 2001
director.
MR. LITSINGER: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. For the
record, Stan Litsinger. As Tom said, this is a continuation of your
November 30th annual meeting on the annual update inventory report
on public facilities.
Just to refresh your memory just a little bit, as you'll recall, in
addition to our lengthy discussion on some of the options you have
available to you on transportation-related matters which we will
continue today in this meeting, we also covered the water and sewer
portions of your annual update inventory report.
Today what we would like to do is start with -- I'm going to
have Aaron Blair of my staff project up on the screen the pages of the
report that we'll be referring to as we go along. We'd like to start
with recreation, parks and recreation, if you will, and go through the
rest of the facilities and the recommendations that we have for you on
each of the facilities.
Before we start, I will tell you that, generally speaking, we feel
that as we go through these facilities, we will have some specific
recommendations, but we are not anticipating any particular crisis-
type situations of the facilities you will be reviewing.
What I will do is give you the highlights of each individual
facility type, and maybe we'll have the facility manager answer any
specific questions that you might have. We have Marla Ramsey here
today from parks and recreation.
Up on the screen, which corresponds to your page 22 of the
notebooks we have provided you at the last meeting, is what we call
the facility summary form. Very simply, what it does is it states the
existing inventory. It shows the required inventory at the adopted
level of service standard and a dollar value, a constant dollar value
that will be required over the next five years.
It shows the planned CIE projects that we are proposing and
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December 18, 2001
asking for your recommendation to include in the next CIE update
and amendment in February. It also gives you a dollar value and the
.proposed or in-place funding sources in order to fund these revenues.
Now, what you will see on each of these presentations and No. 1
where we show existing revenue sources, that means that the revenue
sources are believed or estimated to be in place and no additional
revenue sources are required.
If Aaron will turn to page 24 on the presentation, we are -~ what
you'll show here is that Marla's plan for the next five years, it shows a
tracking of a level of service standard similar to the one we showed
you with water and sewer, planned facility additions of
approximately $40 million over the next 5 years to be paid for with
impact fees and bonding of impact fees over that period of time.
We also have for your information, if you would like to look at
individual facilities that add up to the $40 million on page 25, the
individual year-by-year detail of the parks' capital facilities. A
further recommendation we have in parks is upon analysis and
considering that we have not changed the level of service standard
since 1989 when we adopted the plan, we're recommending that you
give us direction to amend the level of service standard from $179
per capita to $240 per capita which is more in keeping with current
values and current costs of facilities. But as you will see from the
chart, the graph that we just showed you, we are proposing the 240 --
go back to the graph a moment, Aaron -- oh, there we go, the $240
per capita level of service standard that we're proposing, we still are
in very good shape as we go out into the later years, FY '09 and 'O 10,
'O 10, FY '10. And, of course, we would again be bringing you AU --
AUIRs that deal with those developing deficits in future years. If you had no questions -- yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. You have mentioned here the
Lely amphitheater for a million five, but I do know that -- at least I
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December 18, 2001
understand that there are some negotiations going on regarding that
and -- and possibly the thought of not having it in Lely but in another
area. Are we still going to be putting aside the money for that? Do
we know where we're going with it or ~- please let me know how -- if
we can put that off for another year, that would be great.
MS. RAMSEY: With that particular issue -- and there is a
couple of them like that -- where we've had 20 acres is included in
the land as well as the facility cost is projected to be there. One thing
that is not listed here that that funding then could be transferred to
would be a park like Manatee which I don't have any funding
currently allocated toward it, so we could still reach our dollar
amounts by pulling other projects ahead as we go forward. Whether
we'll actually put the amphitheater at that location or not is yet to be
determined, and I've still earmarked that until I've heard otherwise.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Uh-huh. Now, that land was free;
right?
MS. RAMSEY: That's correct. That land has been donated.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But if you move this facility then to
Manatee, then do you purchase the property there, or is that school
property?
MS. RAMSEY: No. We currently own 60 acres that's
undeveloped at that particular location.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So this million five then is for the
facility itself. Is that --
MS. RAMSEY: That's correct. It's for the infrastructure.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Marla, what's the Stalling
school?
MS. RAMSEY: That particular one there is to help enhance the
school system. When the schools come on line with your elementary
schools, we go into the schools and try and upgrade their athletic
facilities to meet the standards of little leagues and our standards.
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December 18, 2001
And then we maintain those fields for usage of those facilities after
school hours. The game plan of that particular one is to go into the
Stalling property and upgrade the facilities.
Now, that particular project has been moved forward on the
school system's side and is being built currently, and so we're going
to have to look at that particular one to find out if we're able to
piggyback on it next year or not. We have an issue with lights that
we're trying to deal with right now.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So it's a partnership with the
school to enhance the services that we provide?
MS. RAMSEY: Correct. For example, instead of putting down
bahia, we would come in and put Bermuda because that's the athletic
turf that we would utilize.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I gotcha.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Other questions for the board?
MR. LITSINGER: If there are no other questions, on parks
facilities, we have three separate levels of service standards on parks,
and we'll need to have a motion and a vote on each one. I would ask
the board for a motion and vote to approve staff recommendations
relative to facilities and timing and revenues and their proposed level
of service standard on parks facilities, and then we'll move on to
community parks.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can we do a motion, actually
vote in this workshop?
MR. LITSINGER: This is a special meeting.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: This is a special meeting. It's a
continuation of another meeting dedicated specifically to this, so it's
not a workshop.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'll move staff recommendation.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
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December 18, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The motion carries.
MR. LITSINGER: Move on to -- page 27 of your report is the
second of the three-pronged way we look at community parks --
excuse me, parks facilities in Collier County. And here is your level
of service standard for parks land. What we're showing you here is
that, here again, we are proposing to acquire another 49 acres of
parks, community parks land over the next 5 years which we believe
is fundable within the existing parks impact fee revenue stream with
possibly some combination of bonding as we go along.
If you would like a detail of the parks facilities that we are
speaking of, you will see those on page 33. Here we have a summary
of the proposed community park additions over the next five years.
And we're asking the board to approve the inclusion of these park
facilities in your upcoming CIE update and amendment the identified
revenues.
One thing I'd like to point out to you also is that we are
proposing a slight change in the way we calculate level of service
standard and our ability and progress in attaining that level of service
based on Miss Ramsey's analysis. We would like to change the level
of service standard to 1.2882 acres per 1,000 population in the
unincorporated area only. Previously we had used the entire county,
but that was not a proper analysis in that we do not provide
community parks in -- within the incorporated areas. So part of our
recommendation would be an addition to including the listed projects
that we also amend our level of service standard to base it on the
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December 18, 2001
unincorporated area population as opposed to county-wide
population.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And, again, this is a specific impact
fee direct -- collected for parks and recreation and which may or may
not be bonded off, depending on the needs, based over, as I see it, a
five-year plan.
MR. LITSINGER: Five years.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Anticipating on the growth schedule I
see here, the line with -- for what our current population is. MR. LITSINGER: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So I'm -- and, again, this seems to be
much clearer in a different format than we've had in the past, Stan. I
compliment you on that. You put the pieces together. So for the next
five years, if we go with the level of service that Miss Ramsey is
proposing taking the incorporated areas out, we can meet the
community needs.
MR. LITS1NGER: If you look at page 29, it shows a chart.
This is with their proposed level of service change using
unincorporated area. And, as you can see, we're in very good shape
with our community park acres verse our adopted level of service
standard.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: One more time on that, on the
rural area. How are you proposing to change that again, because I
know some of the lands out there would lend themselves to regional
parks?
MR. LITSINGER: Regional parks will be the next facility we
look at. But, Commissioner, relative to what we're proposing is,
we're not taking out rural lands. We're taking out the incorporated
populations of Naples, Marco, lots in Marco, and Everglades City in
our calculation of level of service standard because we neither collect
impact fees in those areas nor do we build community parks within
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December 18, 2001
the incorporated areas. Yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Do you have a way of calculating
how many park -- how many people use the parks daily, during the
day, during the evening, weekly so that we can see that all of this
money that's being spent for the parks is actually being utilized by
not only the people who are living here now but potentially by the
new people that we're planning?
MS. RAMSEY: I can give you a breakdown in numbers for
facilities in both programming and in visitors. We use a car counter
and use a multiplier on that. And we do have a monthly report that
we put out that if you'd like that information, I can send it to you.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, I would like that information
park by park actually. I'm very interested in that, and if you can even
give me something that -- that tells me days of the week and hours of
the day so that we know are parks being utilized during the day, are
there other ways that we can use them because I'm -- I'm hoping that
we can also work together with the school system to -- to utilize both
parks at the same time for some of their after-school programs, and
maybe our park system can work with the school board and -- and
take those dollars and decrease them if we can so that we're both
working together to serve the population. Anyway, we'll be going on
to that. Tom's going to be setting up that meeting for me after the
first of the year.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And, Commissioner Fiala, that's
part of my problem and the reason I vote -- voted no on the last issue.
I -- I'm -- I guess I'm a little concerned about the fact that we -- we
have a surplus of capacity in facilities now, and we're going to have a
deficit in FY '10. My question is, why do we build additional
facilities now or in the new -- in the short term when we don't need it
according to our facilities-required curve and incur a surplus in later
years?
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December 18, 2001
MS. RAMSEY: To help you with that just a little bit is even
though we look at our facility cost as a unit cost, the facilities -- for
example, take a soccer field. We do not have enough soccer fields in
our facilities, but the cost of putting up a community center in an area
that needs it will be of a higher dollar amount, so then the entire
revenue stream or the dollar amount is higher in that area, but we
may not have enough soccer fields to accommodate needs of the
community itself. And so a lot of what we're doing with the school
system is trying to address those athletic needs, and we're doing it --
currently we do it at Manatee Elementary/Middle School; the new
Barron Collier site, which is called Osce -- Osceola Elementary;
Naples Park Elementary; Avalon Elementary; Big Cypress
Elementary; and in some degree with Manatee. So we are definitely
teaming up with the elementary schools and trying to use existing
facilities to make sure that we do not have to duplicate taxpayers'
dollars for those facilities.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: To what extent have we prioritized
the capital facilities themselves?
MS. RAMSEY: The facilities that we have listed for the next
five years?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No. I guess my question is, the
Golden Gate Community Center, is that number one, and Marco
access restroom, is that last? Is this -- is this reported in --
MS. RAMSEY: No, it's not. No, it's not.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -~ in descending order of
importance?
MS. RAMSEY: Each -- each different area has different needs,
and we tried to look at them on a case-by-case basis and try and put
them up against one another. That's why you'll see some projects in
'02 and others in '05. That's based on either what we feel is the
upcoming need and -- or the priority, if you want to look at it from
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December 18, 2001
that standpoint.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I guess my overriding
concern is just one of-- of prioritizing all capital projects, and I just
don't see that happening here. But I -- I understand that -- that this
impact fee is pretty much compartmentalized, and you're going to
have to use it for something. I guess my only concern is why use it
early rather than later and thereby avoid the deficit ten years out.
That's my -- my only concern.
MS. RAMSEY: I think I might want to comment on that is that
we're looking with the school system who looks out 20 years based
upon what they feel is going to be the need of the children in that
particular area, and we're working really closely with the schools,
because if they have a need to have children in that particular area,
then we're going to have a need to have athletic fields in that area. So
in -- in some regards, we are looking at that in tandem.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Is there some kind of agreement
with the school system with respect to cost sharing on any of those
things?
MS. RAMSEY: Yes. For each facility that we do, for example,
Corkscrew Elementary/Middle School, we have a contract for 20
years with them.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Thank you.
MR. LITSINGER: Commissioner Coyle, if I may make -- just
make a comment on the analytical methodology you've seen here,
statutorily the AUIR and the capital improvement element comp plan
deals with five years of capital facilities. So the reason you're seeing
that generally what we look -- or we're building a surplus in the
analysis of the first five years, it tends to -- to turn into a deficit in the
latter years -- that's ten years out -- is because of the fact that as we
move forward next year, we will add a year, and you will see a new
facilities planning. So really here the key emphasis is the first five
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December 18, 2001
years that you're looking at on each of these charts. We're not
indicating that we're planning for a deficit. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. LITSINGER: If there are no further questions, I'd ask for a
motion and vote on staff recommendations for community parks.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So move.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: A motion by Commissioner Henning,
a second by Commissioner Coletta. Discussion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: This is for park acres only?
MR. LITSINGER: Correct.
MS. RAMSEY: That's correct. It's park land.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Questions, comments, Commissioner
Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Does this take into
consideration at Orange Tree that park that's going to be donated to
us, the land there, the Brian Paul property?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner -- let me help you, Marla, on that
one, okay?
MS. RAMSEY: Okay.
MR. MUDD: You just -- you just walked into a land mine. All
right?
MS. RAMSEY: Well, I do have it in the regional park land. It's
not in the community park land, so it's the next item.
MR. MUDD: But, Commissioner Coletta, so far the donation
isn't happening. Okay. He's asking for a dollar amount for every
acre no matter if it's in a pond or if it's -- if it's a -- land that surrounds
that pond.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. I'll file that
information for further reference.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Any questions?
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December 18, 2001
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
carries 5-0.
All in favor of the motion signify by
Voted by the same sign. The motion
MR. LITSINGER: Moving on to page 30 of your report, here's
the third and last level of service standard that we deal with in our
parks facilities. And this is regional park land. Here -- and, as you
can see, we're demonstrating a regional park land. We're proposing
to add 156 acres during the 5-year planning time frame which is,
again, outlined on page 33, the specific projects that we're proposing.
Also here we're proposing a rather radical change in the way we
analyze our regional park land inventory versus our need and our
level of service standard.
Previously we had included state and federal lands in our
inventory of regional parks which didn't truly provide access to
county residents at will and which we have no control over. Marla,
here again, has recommended that we remove the inventory of state
and federal acreage from our regional park lands inventory which
gives us a more realistic outlook as to what we had in this particular
area which is demonstrated on the chart on page 32. Even by making
the change and removing the state and federal lands which we
recommend from the inventory, we still are -- have a very good plan
providing for regional park acreage in the coming years with the
available revenue stream.
Any questions on regional park?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, just the only thing I'm thinking
about, you know, state parks we have the access to. MR. LITSINGER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Federal lands are usually just raw land
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December 18, 2001
that if you're courageous, you go into it. If-- so they're not really
user friendly. But the state lands are user friendly. MR. LITSINGER: Yes.
MS. RAMSEY: Well, a comment on that is part of the state
lands are user friendly; not all of the state lands are. I mean, you
might have a thousand acres, and maybe 50 of it might be accessible
to the recreational elements.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that's very passive.
MS. RAMSEY: Right. And that's passive, yes.
MR. OLLIFF: The other issue is when the level of service
standard was originally developed, the state lands were not included
and were not intended to be included by the community group that
developed that level of service standard nor by the board that
approved it. The idea to include the state lands was done by a
subsequent board when, frankly, it got in a financial bind and didn't
have the impact fees and revenue available. So an easy way out of
that was simply to pump in the inventory of state and federal lands
that the county had in inventory and then sort of just slip out from
having any responsibility to continue to provide a regional land
inventory.
All we're suggesting to you is that the original concept was this
2.9 acres per thousand level of population, aside from and apart from
state and federal lands, and we think that's probably what the original
level of service standard was intended to be and probably what we
ought to get back to.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That makes a lot of sense to me, Tom,
because I think what I'm hearing is, hide the problem and let
somebody else wrestle with it. Now, that's just exactly what's
happened here. If they had done what they needed to do at that time,
it would have been a reflective portion.
Commissioner Fiala.
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December 18, 2001
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you so much.
Where does Lely Barefoot Beach fall in this being that it's both
state and county?
MS. RAMSEY: We put that into our inventory underneath
regional park lands. It's in this particular item. And we -- we include
all of those because we manage those lands.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And -- and what is -- what is that
under here?
MS. RAMSEY: That's underneath the regional park land. It's in
the -- it's not in the list --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, okay.
MS. RAMSEY: -- of acres here because it's not projected.
MR. OLLIFF: Because we already own it.
MR. LITSINGER: It's in our inventory.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay.
MR. LITSINGER: And we --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And this lands thing, we're not --
this is just acquiring the lands, right? Have we already paid for that
other, or that's already been budgeted?
MS. RAMSEY: Are you talking about the outparcel, or are you
talking about the --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah.
MR. OCHS: It closes Friday.
MS. RAMSEY: Again, that's actually -- in this -- this school
year -- that is -- it is to be reflected on here. It's in mine in pencil, but
that came in after we did this particular report. So it will be included
in the 1.69 acres. It will be included in this inventory.
MR. OLLIFF: I need -- I need to -- before the board -- well, go
ahead, Stan. I'll let the board --
MR. LITS1NGER: If there are no further questions, I would ask
for a motion and vote on regional park land recommendations.
Page 17
December 18, 2001
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So moved.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion by Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a second by Commissioner
Fiala. Discussion?
MR. OLLIFF: I'm going to jump in here, Mr. Chairman, and at
the sake of confusing the works a little bit. There are -- there are two
different levels of service that you just recently looked at. One is the
regional park land, the actual advanced purchase of or the purchase of
lands for regional parks. In that particular level of service, given the
rate at which land is consumed around here, I would tell you that it is
probably good planning to be well ahead of your population curve
because if you wait for the population to get there, you won't have the
opportunity to be able to buy the park land that you need.
But I'm going to ask Aaron if you'll back up to slide -- whatever
the facilities slide was, Aaron, the regional park facilities. MS. RAMSEY: Twenty-four.
MR. OLLIFF: Back to 24. I do want to make sure that the
board understands that in this particular case, the -- the point that
Commissioner Coyle was pointing out is -- is it's not so much
building it in advance is going to have any difference in terms of
whether or not you hit that deficit point in fiscal year '10. But I do
want to make sure that the board is -- is aware that when we're
building large facilities, for example, it does provide some excess
capacity.
But the issue that you've got is a recognition, at least upon the
part of the board, that you do have maintenance of those facilities.
And I just want to make sure that the board is aware that when you're
building those facilities in fiscal year '02, '3, and '4 that are shown on
that graph, while it provides some excess capacity for us on a level of
service standard, the ongoing maintenance costs are our costs that we
Page 18
December 18, 2001
bear through your general fund or actually through your Fund 111
now that we moved parks over there.
And so just -- I want to make sure the board understands that.
Then that's really probably the issue that you've got in dealing with
when to build and when -- when you're planning for the construction
of capital facilities.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. That -- that is the issue
exactly. You need to buy the land so that you'll be prepared to react
to it at some point in time. You don't need to build the facility
necessarily at a specific point in time until you reach the point where
you have a requirement for this facility. And -- and -- and that's,
again, my reason for voting against the capital improvements
proposal.
But I would like to ask one -- one question, one additional
question, is that we are -- we are increasing the level of standard --
level of service standard. What impact does that have on the actual
impact fees themselves?
MS. RAMSEY: Well, we're -- our goal is to come back to you
in -- in the next four to six months with an increase to our impact fees
to help with the cost of construction because 11 years ago it was
$1.79 a facility per person. But based on the construction, it's gone
up over 3.12 percent per year since that point in time. And so the
size and -- and of the facilities is much less for the dollar that I have.
And so that's the reason for increasing that level of service, so that I
will be able to look at that on the impact fee side and be able to
justify the increases.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm sorry. What was the last time we
reviewed it, Marla?
MS. RAMSEY: The impact fee? The impact fee was about
three years ago.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Pardon me?
Page 19
December 18, 2001
MS. RAMSEY: About three years ago the impact fee.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: It was '99.
MR. OLLIFF: But to answer Commissioner Coyle's question,
the impact fee formula is driven by your level of service standard. So
when your level of service standard is in what was my opinion
artificially high, it puts you in a position where you cannot levy the
impact fee that you probably should be levying for regional park
land.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That -- that's what bothers me a
little bit. We're -- we're approving capital improvements and land
acquisition and all that sort of thing, and then we come back in six
months, and we're going to take a look at an impact fee increase,
which we might not be able to justify. And that's what bothers me a
little bit. But if the board feels comfortable proceeding in that
direction, I'm -- I'm willing to go there. But it just is an
uncomfortable feeling for me.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I have one. I'm having some --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No. Go ahead.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Fiala, then Mar -- Miss
Ramsey wanted to respond to Commissioner Coyle.
MS. RAMSEY: Yeah. I think that when we came before the
board the last time with the impact fee increase, we came in with
three different levels of increase. And the board chose the lesser of
those three levels. So we -- we're very comfortable with the fact that
we'll be able to increase it. I believe right now we're at $800 per unit.
We could have gone as high as $1200 in the last go-round, and we
chose not to.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: What happens if you come in with
three levels next time and we select the lowest level? How does that
impact the plan that we just approved today?
MR. OLLIFF: Go ahead, Stan.
Page 20
December 18, 2001
MR. LITSINGER: Commissioner Coyle, what this plan is is
just that; it's a plan. It's part of your comprehensive plan. It's not
binding on your budget. In the event that the eventuality took place
where you'd made a decision not to raise the impact fee level to the
needed level to fund the $240 per capita, then we would come back to
you next year and amend out to the level of service standard back to a
level that's supported by your impact fee. You are not making a
commitment today, absolute, to go forward with the funding and
construction of these levels.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, if-- if we are, in essence,
approving a level of service standard increase -- MR. LITSINGER: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- through -- through these
documents, that level of service increase will become part of our
comprehensive plan, will it not?
MR. OLLIFF: Yes, sir.
MR. LITSINGER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And the comprehensive plan
cannot be revised except what? Twice a year? MR. LITSINGER: Twice a year.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So you come back in six months
with an impact fee proposal, the board doesn't buy it, we have in our
comprehensive pan -- plan a level of service standard which we are
incapable of achieving. Is that a true statement?
MR. LITSINGER: Until we amend it again.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. So then we would amend
it. But we won't amend it until late next year by that point; right?
MR. OLLIFF: Right.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So we've gone almost a year with
a level of service standard that we know we can't achieve because we
don't know what the impact fee is.
Page 21
December 18, 2001
MR. OLLIFF: But it's almost a chicken and egg kind of thing
because your level of service standard is what drives your impact fee
rate. And you have to know what the board wants in terms of its
standard in order to be able to come back to you and say, "This is the
impact fee you're going to need then in order to be able to support
this standard."
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I understand your problem, and
I'm not going to solve this problem today, and I'm not going to hold
up the discussion. But if we had an analysis, you're adopt -- you
want to adopt a new level of service standard and you want to spend
it on these kinds of things, here is the impact fee that's necessary to
support that. And if we could review that all at one time, it would be
helpful, but we're not going to settle that today.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. I think what we would
be doing is dealing with a tremendous amount of staff time. The
what-if game, it would take -- of all the different levels we could
come in with. They want to hear our rea -- reaction to what can be
done first. Then they'll come back to it. We can always amend it if
we have to.
Like Mr. Olliff said, you can't put the chicken before the egg.
You got to -- you got to go in some sort of logical order. We have to
determine what we want, and then we can go back to address the
impact fees.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Sort of like establishing a budget
without taking a look at what your -- your income is. And that's --
that's the process that bothers me a little bit. Look, I don't want to
belabor the issue and extend the discussion.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, there's a happy medium in there,
Commissioner. And you're right; we're not going to resolve that this
morning. All points are well taken. But having been around this
process, I understand what staff is asking us; they're also saying to us,
Page 22
December 18, 2001
you can achieve certain levels. But if you're going to keep up with
the cost of construction to achieve those levels and this is what you
want to do, then this is -- again, it almost becomes a chicken and egg
thing. But if we come back later and say, well, that would severely
impact it too much and we want to back off of it, then they have to
back off on -- on the plan and say, well -- well, this is more important
than this. And they got to bring it back to us. And we're constantly
moving within some parameters of this plan. But if we don't do this,
then we don't have any parameters is the way I understand --
MR. LITSINGER: Commissioners, I would like to make a
point. On page 23, which is the spreadsheet, which is the analysis
that resulted in their recommendation of $240 per capita, here, again,
we should point out, I think, that we are currently valuing your
current existing inventory of-- at $50 million based on the level of
service standard. So what we're doing, it's a two-pronged attack.
We're also immediately valuing the existing inventory facilities
which you have which is significant at the proposed level of service
standard.
As you can see, just based on -- on the valuation, $240 per
capita and the valuation of the inventories, we're currently at a --
actually providing a level of service standard of $196 per capita to --
today. So we're, actually, providing a higher level than the 179 that
was adopted 12 years ago at this point.
MS. RAMSEY: One other com -- comment on that, if you
looked on page 26. Each year we update our inventory for as many
fields and centers and whatnot. And each year we add a valuation
based upon what the current cost of that facility is, but that facility
could be 12 years old. And so your valuation is -- is high if you look
at it in comparison what I'm then able to leverage against the dollars
that I have currently in -- in '89 they wanted $179 of worth of
facilities per capita. That 179 equates to 240 today based upon what
Page 23
December 18, 2001
it costs me to build those. And that's -- that was the entire reasoning
behind going from 179 to 240, because that should be the same level
of service. It's just based upon the fact that it costs 279 to build that
same level as it did in '89 for 179.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: 240 versus 179.
MS. RAMSEY: Correct.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I guess what we're operating on is -- is
almost a false level of service because it costs you more to do it
today.
MS. RAMSEY: That's -- that's right.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So we're only trying to bring it into
reality. Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. I know -- I know that we
want to keep our level of service high because people enjoy the parks
here and one of the things we've always explained is what a beautiful
place we live, and we don't want to let that beautiful place
deteriorate.
On the other hand, we're hitting impact fees hard this year
because of our road situation and because of our sewer situation and
-~ and our water situation. We're -- we're hitting all of these things
very hard. And -- and, I mean, we're going forward with this, but I'm
-- I'm hoping that we address at some point in time how we could
maybe adjust that a little more rationally than hitting everything at
one time and giving them this monster impact fee change for
something that maybe could be prolonged for a year or so.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If-- ifI --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll finish that by saying that I think
the mistake that has been made is by keeping these things at some
point too low. Then we haven't been able to keep up with it. And
that's why we're hit so hard this year and why we've had to make so
many tough decisions. I want to make sure we get to the point in
Page 24
December 18, 2001
between there where we continue to move forward and continue to
catch up and yet -- and yet not -- not deter work-force housing to be
built and people to be able to buy it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And Commissioner Fiala
makes a very good point that what we're -- what we're basically
saying here is growth has to pay for growth. It's been one of these
responsibilities of government for as long as we've known. And I
think we've given lip service to it long enough. And now we're the
people that are going to have to take it on the -- our shoulders to
make sure that it does what we say it's going to do. And it is going to
be painful, and we are going to have to find some way to
accommodate the work-force housing, too, along the way.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you, Commissioner
Coletta. And I think that's what we're dedicated to make sure that
growth pays for growth. What we're doing here today is setting a
level of standard for the community so David Ellis can sell the homes
upward into the level of service that we have here.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Goodpoint. Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Parks are very important to a
building a great community, just the same as roads. And I don't want
to change the level of service down. I think we need to --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right. I agree.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I agree too.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- we need to go forward on the
motion.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
Okay. Any further discussion on the
All in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed by the same sign?
Page 25
December 18, 2001
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The motion carries 5-0.
MR. LITSINGER: That completes the presentation on the parks
portion of your AUIR.
Moving on to page 34 of the presentation, we touched quickly
on drainage canals and structures, which is a Category A facility.
And I'll point out that this says a rather u -- rather unique level of
service standard in that it is, to some extent, subjective. And the
measures are generally more subjective in nature than some of your
other facilities.
As you can see, the top of your summary page there, we have a
level of service standard for all current -- all future development,
which means anything that is taking place today of the ability to
handle on site a 25-year, 3-day storm event. The existing -- the level
of service standard for all development prior to the adoption of this
plan in 1989 was the current level of service that existed at that time.
Down below you see the proposed addition of approximately
$20 million in drainage capital improvements over the next 5-year
planning period of the CIE, and we also show the existing revenue
service -- excuse me, revenue sources which are currently in place
that would fund this plan. And what staff is asking that you do is
approve the list of projects on page 35 for inclusion in your capital
improvement element update and amendment as we move forward.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I have another question on that
page 34. We show no developer contributions at all to this particular
project. Is that because the impact fee isn't allocated to this kind of
function?
MR. LITSINGER: John, answe~ that.
MR. BOLT: There are no impact fees related to storm water, to
my knowledge, anywhere in the State of Florida because of the
circumstances involved. Developer contributions is more a function
Page 26
December 18, 2001
of timing than anything else. There are certain projects in the area
where we are in conjunction with the developer working to put the
project in place, and it depends on whether he gets there first or we
get there first and who gets the permits to do it and so on. So that's
kind of a moving target.
My name is John Bolt, county storm water director.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So if the developer is a part of the
process, he makes a contribution. But if we're doing this outside of
any development in that area, it's our responsibility? Am I
understanding that correctly?
MR. BOLT: In some cases, if the developer gets there first and
does the work first, donates the right-of-way and does the
construction, then when we're going to set up a taxing district, we
would include that in the total cost and give them a credit for it in
their overall assessment for the project.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So like the -- for instance, years
ago when Sabal Bay was planning on coming in, they were going to
put all of that storm water drainage and spreaders and so forth in, but
because they didn't come in, we've had to accommodate that in our
own schedule, our own budget; right?
MR. BOLT: That is true. But in the PUD document, even as it
stands today, they would have been given credit for the work they
had done up front prior to our project when we set up the taxing
district. We would have included the cost in it and given them credit
back for it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Which would cost us ten years less
at that rate; right?
MR. BOLT: Correct.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Thank you.
MR. OLLIFF: Any questions on --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Questions by the board?
Page 27
December 18, 2001
(No response.)
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve the storm
water drainage AUIR.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion by Commissioner Henning, a
second by Commissioner Fiala. Discussion? (No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Hearing none, all in favor signify the
motion -- signify by saying aye. (Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 5-0.
MR. LITSINGER: Having covered your water and sewer
portions of this presentation on November the 30th, we'll now move
to page 51 of your presentation. Here we'll be dealing with your
solid waste, better known as your landfill, which is your last
Category A facility that we'll deal with today.
If I neglected to mention previously, of course, the difference
between Category A and Category B facilities that we'll be discussing
in a few moments is Category A or concurrency dependent. In other
words, you must maintain your level of service standard on Category
A facility in order to continue to issue building permits in Collier
County.
Here in solid waste, again, we have a two-tiered level of service
standard. The first one we're looking at on page 51 is your 10-year
permittable capacity available for disposal of-- of solid waste, and
this standard is based on the 1 O-year capacity of the landfill. We're
indicating here that based on our contracts with WMI and what is
currently in place that we do not feel that any action is required on
the Board of County Commissioners today relative to the AUIR
Page 28
December 18, 2001
relative to the solid waste ten-year space requirement. And we ask
the board to approve at AUIR for solid waste ten-year permitable
capacity as it is presented to you today.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Question.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Question by Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Do we have a permit on the --
the old cells, or is that part of the -- this ten-year update of capacity
MR. WIDES: Tom Wides, for the record, interim public
utilities administrator.
We are going through the permitting process today for the
remediation process throughout the facilities, and at this point in time
we do have in place with contract with Waste Management for the
9.2 million additional tons in the --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's right. I remember. And
in the ten years is -- is the cases of emergency too.
MR. WIDES: There is also a -- there is a emergency situation
that we've established with the Okeechobee landfill where, in fact, in
the short term here we have 2 years of capacity of basically about
930,000 tons that we've contracted for with Waste Management.
And in the event that there is a storm event, we have an additional
500,000 tons that we can move up in the Okeechobee -- Okeechobee
landfill, if necessary.
MR. LITSINGER: For demonstration purposes, we've put the
graph of the current situation with the Naples landfill, and it just is
worthy to point out that in the out years FY '09 and '10, as you-all are
all aware anyway, we are looking at significant alternatives to the
current situation at the Naples landfill.
MR. MUDD: The RFP -- Jim Mudd for the record.
The RFPs for organic and -- and composting for construction
and demolition and for gasification are out on the street. We chose to
Page 29
December 18, 2001
-- because it was such a short period of time that a little extra time on
the street to get good proposals would be more prudent than trying to
rush it and -- and cut people out of process and maybe for us not to
get the best deal as far as companies with proposals and -- and right
now Waste Management is -- is working a proposal to use the landfill
gas.
We chose to work through the present contract for landfill gas
utilization through Waste Management because we still want to hold
them responsible for the odor. And we didn't want to get ourselves
into a situation whereby we have a -- a company that's responding to
us utilizing the landfill gas and then they don't care about the odor so
much. They're interested in producing BTUs or getting the most gas
out of it, and they don't worry so much about the odors escaping.
And Waste Management -- we're holding them for odors and the two
of them saying, "Well, I can't do it because one of the other is doing
something different." They're at opp -- they're at opposite ends of--
of the scale. So to preclude that from happening, we're asking Waste
Management to go to the street with the landfill gas utilization to turn
it into electricity, and -- and we can still hold them responsible for
that entire operation.
Those things are coming. You will see those the end part of
May and June with staff recommendations on how those work. All
of those things that we're talking about, especially C and D and
gasification and organics, is to minimize our volumes going into the
landfill to move this red area out into the -- into the 20 -- 25-year
mode to prolong the life of the landfill in that area that we have with
substances that don't -- that aren't odiferous.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Question.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Question, Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Mr. Mudd, whereabouts in this
graph would the Immokalee landfill and its closing fit in?
Page 30
December 18, 2001
MR. MUDD: Certainly. The Immokalee landfill is basically
going to be out of operation by 2005, 2006, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And is that part of tremendous
decline that takes place in there? Is that what's been figured into it, or
has it been taken into account?
MR. MUDD: It's been taken into account, sir. What we're
basically showing is that it basically comes down as we keep adding
volumes based on the current volumes that we see in the growth
pattern. We've got to do something a little bit different to reduce the
volumes that go into that landfill. The Immokalee landfill is just --
it's a small piece. It's a very small piece compared to the Naples
operation, but it's very -- it's -- it's located in a very customer friendly
location because it's close to it, and we try to be good neighbors with
-~ with the tribe that it's -- that's there that surrounds that facility.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
MR. OLLIFF: Because the board hasn't made these decisions in
terms of its long-term disposal, this big chunk of red is going to show
up on your graph. And it probably is good to have it there as a
reminder that we need to make some decisions to make that -- that
colorful graph change a little bit. But we cannot alter that graph to
show that we've made those decisions until you actually sit there and
look at the presentations and pick some technologies. Once we select
some technologies, then we can start to put them in the plan.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: When do you think you'll reach a
decision on the gasification process?
MR. WIDES: The RFPs, as Mr. Mudd has said, they are out on
the street right now. We expect to have those back in the -- I believe
the February time frame, and then shortly thereafter that we'll be
coming with our recommendations to the board.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We'll have an opportunity to make
those decisions probably in the year 2002 and probably the first half,
Page 31
December 18, 2001
if I'm understanding the schedule correctly. MR. WIDES: That is our expectation.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm going to call the motion.
MR. LITSINGER: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. On this
particular portion of the solid waste ten-year permitable passage there
is no action required because there are no changes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Just testing to see if everybody is
awake today.
MR. LITSINGER: I'd move you to page 54. Here is your
second level of service standard here. Here is the requirement that
we have two years of constructed lined cell capacity at an average
disposal at the rate of the previous five years at any time. As you can
see, we have a couple demonstrations for you here beginning with
page 56, which is the graph which shows the available capacity over
the next two years and up through the projection period with the
availability of the Okeechobee landfill capacity allocated of 930,000
tons. And also we show on page 57 the situation in the event that we
did not have the 930,000 tons at the Okeechobee landfill.
Generally speaking, we would recommend that the board
approve the projects as identified and recommend that staff puts the
CIE FY '02 to '06 projects in the next annual update and amendment.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So moved.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a motion by Commissioner
Henning, a second by Commissioner Coletta. Question?
MR. OLLIFF: I have a question of Mr. Mudd. I want you to
clearly explain to the board what this chart shows them.
MR. MUDD: What you have, Commissioners, remember last
year, we were talking about --
MR. OLLIFF: Jim, if use the wall mic, it's right there behind
you.
Page 32
December 18, 2001
MR. MUDD: Sir, they're all hooked into -- what we have is -- is
on this chart, we talked about -- last November or so we were talking
about running out of lined capacity in the -- in the landfill, and we
went into a series of negotiations in January and February with Waste
Management to acquire it at a cost of $1. Their guarantee of a two-
year line capability at Okeechobee on that previous chart, you'll see it
looked like a bunch of biorhythms, okay, as it was going up and
down. But if we hadn't done that, we would have been down here in
the red zone, and we would have not been in compliance with our
comprehensive plan because the line capability isn't constructed.
Now, the permit for the line capability will be submitted to the
Florida Department of Environmental Protection this month. Waste
Management submitted it to us at the end of October. We reviewed it
with our consultant, Malcolm Pirnie, with some changes that's going
to get put in this month to -- to them. We're hoping for a review by
the Florida Department of Environmental Protection and for
construction to start sometime in the springtime.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And how much money did you
save negotiating this contract?
MR. MUDD: Well, when we got into the negotiations, it was --
it was obvious to the -- to the county that Waste Management was --
was looking to the county to pay for the -- the line capability in Cells
1 and 2. And when you -- when you start adding those numbers up, it
comes up to be about $50 million. When we were done with the
negotiations, it was obvious to everybody at the table that it was
Waste Management's responsibility for that capital cost.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Thank you very much. Any
other questions by the board? (No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Call the motion. All in favor signify
by saying aye.
Page 33
December 18, 2001
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
Fiala is absent.
Opposed by the same sign?
Motion carries 4-0; Commissioner
MR. LITSINGER: That comete -- completes your Category A,
public facilities. We now move on to Category B, public facilities.
Here we show on page 61 the status of your jail facility. Here
again, let me point out for your reference that here we're getting into
Category B facilities which are basically policy decisions relative to
the level of facilities to be provided based on your sense of the
community's comfort level with the service they're being provided in
each case as we go along. There is no ramification relative to state
oversight or the issuance of permits in the community.
The first one that we're looking at here is the jail. We're
showing a -- an addition of the 240 beds in FY '02. Here, again, staff
is proposing a slight change in the way we evaluate level of service
standard for jail facilities. We're ask -- we're recommending that in
the past we had gone -- used peak population for calculation of our
level of service standard for jail beds. Looking at the analyses and
the level of service being provided, the space availability in the jail,
we're recommending that the calculis -- calculation methodology be
revised to use the weighted average population, which is a factor of
the peak population during the season and the permanent population
in determining level of service per thousand population, which is 2.4
beds. Other than that, we have no recommendations for this
particular CIE planning cycle other than to include the one project
that we see here, the one jail facility in your upcoming CIE. Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So you're saying that crime
doesn't increase during the season?
MR. LITSINGER: I don't know that I can make that statement.
Page 34
December 18, 2001
Analytically we are showing that by using the peak population, we
have overstated possibly our nail -- need for jail space and that we're
asking, pending a review by the correction committee of the existing
methodologies, that we amend our level of service standard to
weighted averages, opposed to peak population, and calculation of
level of service standards. Here again, it's a policy decision.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Are you through?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You're showing this 7,392,000
from jail impact fees?
MR. LITSINGER: Excuse me, sir?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: The jail impact fees are paying for
this entirely?
MR. LITSINGER: That's my understanding, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Now we have 7,392,000 in
that fund right now?
MR. LITSINGER: Yes, sir. That's the project -- that's not
necessarily -- that's the projected current available balance in that
fund and the projected stream over the five-year period that we're
dealing with here today.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And -- and that would be
sufficient for building this facility?
MR. LITSINGER: That -- based on a per-cell capacity, now
keeping in mind that a complete jail project which might be brought
to you by your facilities management folks might include additional
services such as administrative space. But here we are dealing
specifically with a level of service standard and its cost per cell which
is about $30,000.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm a little concerned about
changing this down, not knowing from -- from the experts of the fact
is they're -- you know, changing it down is going to affect
Page 3 5
December 1 $, 2001
overcrowding in the jail. And I don't mind jail inmates bunking up
together, but my concern is --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Some of them would love it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Don't go there.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We're not going to have to vote on
that, are we?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- is, you know, riots or
something like that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'd like a little more
information on that, too, to make sure that we're heading in the right
direction. How many times would we be over capacity in any given
period of time? These are good questions you're bringing up,
Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, do we really have 223 beds
surplus right now?
MR. LITSINGER: By this analysis and the level of service
standard. I don't think we have anyone here from the jail facility to
tell you on any given day what the occupancy rate is of the jail. But
the indication here is that the level of service standard may need
some adjustment. If you so choose -- it's a policy decision -- we can
retain the current peak populant -- population method for calculation
which would probably show a deficit almost immediately. And, then
again, that can drive the decision-making process. But here again, it's
a policy-related decision.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We have -- I know that I visited
over there, and we have some inmates sleeping under the stairwell.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Are we talking about this jail here
or the one in Immokalee?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: In Collier County.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, they're both in Collier
County.
Page 36
December 18, 2001
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Immokalee is Collier
County.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's both of them.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: My question is, is this -- we're doing a
thing on average. If this is policy, maybe it could be adjusted -- am I
correct on all of this? -- like anything else.
MR. LITSINGER: Excuse me, sir?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: It could be adjusted?
MR. LITSINGER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And we're probably not going to
resolve this this morning.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If I may enter a thought into
this, I know because of the state's new way of handling criminals and
the way they incarcerate them for longer periods of time, this may be
what we're seeing the reflect of, why we're not getting the jails, local
jails, to match the local population like they used to in the past. But
I'm far from an expert on this, but you've personally seen
overcrowding in our Naples jail?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, the -- they sleep under
the stairwell, like I said.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I've -- I've heard the same thing,
Tom, so you bring up a good -- a good -- a good subject because the
weighted average is not allowing for our population increase when it
seems a lot of people are coming here because we have so many
people in town, and -- a prime target, and so with us capturing them,
we want to keep them someplace or another. I've heard time and
again where people are sleeping on the floor, and it could really cause
major problems. I don't know if the state can step in and -- and give
you a citation that you have too many people without beds. I -- I
have no idea. But I think we ought to reevaluate that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That -- that is debatable, and I
Page 37
December 18, 2001
don't think anybody here wants to make all the people in jail
comfortable.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I just don't want an explosive
situation so --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I think we're wise being
conservative on this issue because I -- I really believe we probably
have a greater capacity with the way -- with the security concerns
we've got right now, and we probably will have -- be having more
people detained, at least for short periods of time. I agree with
Commissioner Henning. I think we've got to be relatively
conservative based upon the level of service standard. And -- and I
would hope this would be determined in -- in conjunction with the
sheriffs office.
MR. OLLIFF: What I would suggest for the board, because I
know there's a lot of interest, not only in this project but the
Immokalee project and the jail impact fee and where are we with that
entire issue, I would suggest that we hold a separate meeting or at
least maybe at the tail of a county commission meeting have some of
the people from the sheriffs department, along with your facilities
staff come in and we just have a separate discussion about jails,
where are we, where are we going with them, making sure that the
board and the sheriff are all on the same page in terms of our long-
range planning, because I will tell you that is a misleading chart.
Those 240 beds are not in place today, those additional 240 beds, and
there is not a surplus of 223 beds today. So I know we are currently
under design for a jail expansion here at the Naples facility, but that
facility has yet to be constructed, and I think the board wants to have
some -- some conversation about that before we get to that point.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So what's the recommendation we do
with this?
Page 38
December 18, 2001
MR. OLLIFF: Well, this -- this is a plan. And I think the board,
obviously, on a -- on a project-by-project basis will make its decision
based on the funding and the projects in front of it. So I would
suggest that you go ahead and adopt this because it's a Category B
facility, and there is no real major impact because it is a planning
document that you adopt this level of service standard but then you
give us some direction to make sure that we schedule fairly soon a
separate meeting to discuss jail facilities.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I would -- I would make that
motion, along with what you just said that make sure that we get an
update from the professionals, and let's do it right and be realistic
about what we have to provide because that is what we're charged
with as commissioners is to provide the facilities for the other
constitutional officers, including the jail.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We have a motion, and I have a
second by Commissioner Henning. Further discussion?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I -- one note, ifI may. When it
comes time to do that review of jails with the sheriffs department, I
would really like to see a workshop, based upon the sheriffs
department itself, who is -- $75 million of the budget goes to support
sheriffs department.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I thought it was 80 million.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Eighty million.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Eighty million. Okay. I -- we
gave them a small raise, I guess. But $80 million is a lot of money. I
-- I'd love to see a total workshop devoted to the jails and the sheriffs
department so we have a better understanding of where that $80
million is spent.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'll vote for that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Do you want to include that as
Page 39
December 18, 2001
part of the motion?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Why don't we give staff direction to
do that.
Okay. All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 5-0.
MR. OLLIFF: So I'll take that as a majority of the board wants
to have a workshop not only on jails but on law enforcement as well?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. And I think that -- I
think that not only the board needs to know about the spending in the
sheriff's department but the public as a whole.
MR. LITSINGER: Moving on to your next Category B
facilities, I'll ask Aaron to flip to Slide 64. This is your library
buildings level of service standard. That's just paid for with library
impact fees and some general fund contributions. What we're
showing here is we -- we are coming out of a -- a recent deficit. We
have additions coming on line in '01 and '02, the north Naples
regional library, as you're familiar with, '03 and '04, enlargement of
the Golden Gate branch and '07 and '08 a south regional library.
We're still predicting a small period there where we have a slight
deficit over the planning period. But, here again, this is a policy
decision and staff-direction item. The recommendation would be
to--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: This is based upon --
MR. LITSINGER: Go ahead.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: This trend is based on a current impact
fee on library?
MR. LITSINGER: Yes, correct.
Page 40
December 18, 2001
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But it does include almost $6
million in general revenue funds?
MR. LITSINGER: Calculated based on the cost per square foot
to build the buildings, it would need some augmentation from other
fund sources and impact fees.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Now, if you adopt this level of
standard --
MR. LITSINGER: This is the existing level, yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. If you continue with this
level of standard, are you obligated to perform the capital
improvement projects on the schedule that you've laid out?
MR. LITS1NGER: No, sir. That's a policy decision.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. All right.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
Any further questions by the board?
Entertain a motion.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I move that we -- that we direct
staff to -- to accept and move forward with this particular library
building --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'll be happy to second that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. I have a motion by
Commissioner Fiala, a second by Commissioner Coletta.
Discussion?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are we including the -~ the
books in the -- in the --
MR. LITSINGER: That's next.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I have a question: We're adopting
a level of service standard.
MR. LITSINGER: No, sir. You're -- there's no change --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Meaning the current level of
Page 41
December 18, 2001
service standard?
MR. LITSINGER: Yes, sir. And you're directing us to include
the three projects that we outlined in the coming capital improvement
element.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You know, I haven't heard anything
from the Library Advisory Board contrary to the schedule. And,
believe me, in the past they have been very vocal if they think that it
is not meeting a level of service standard, so I'm accepting that as a
green light for them to continue with the level of service.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 4-1.
MR. LITSINGER: Moving to page 65, this is the other side of
your library commitment, is your library book stock. Here we have a
progressive level of service standard that moves upward each year at
a rate of .05 books per capita as we try to achieve the standards
throughout the state and the rest of the nation. In this case we're
indicating that due to the revenue stream with impact fees that a
portion of these funds for the book inventory would come from some
form of rev -- general fund revenue augmentation.
On page 67 we show you that it has been the policy of the board
that our level of service standard is designed such that we do provide
the adopted level of service standard as the population increases,
which is why the two lines correspond between the inventory
proposed and the population growth projections. Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I know that a few years back
Page 42
December 18, 2001
we were extremely Iow on -- on our books per capita, and the Friends
of the Library were really complaining. Have we caught up to a point
where -- where we at least reach average?
MR. LITSINGER: We -- my understanding -- someone may
have to jump in here and help me -- is that the standard nation wide
and state wide is somewhere in the area of two-plus books per capita.
And, as you can see, each year we're increasing where at one point
we were below one book per capita when we were adopting the
comprehensive plan. And as we move forward through this
acquisition plan, we will surpass two books per capita in the planning
periods.
Any questions on library book stock?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: There's no way that funds for
the books could come out of the impact fees?
MR. LITSINGER: At the current level of impact fees, our
analysis indicates no, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But aren't the -- the increase in
the number of books a certain ratio tied into the increased
population?
MR. LITSINGER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That only makes sense that
they should be tied into some sort of impact fee, you know, a minor
one. Why should the general taxpayer that's already put the money
into the infrastructure and the books have to come back and pay for
the books for the new people that are coming into the area?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: For the record, Michael Smykowski,
budget director.
A portion of the general fund dollars that are used to -- are for
replacement library books as the stock and inventory is used up and
aged and has to be replaced. Obviously that is not an impact-fee-
eligible expense. So a certain segment, those annual replacement
Page 43
December 18, 2001
books are the general-fund portion. The balance of new books for
like the new north regional library will be purchased from -- directly
from impact fees.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA:
for.
That's the answer I was looking
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Is this based on the current level
of impact fees, or are you recommending that we increase library -- MR. LITSINGER: We're making a recommendation of impact
fees, the current level.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And that's true for the buildings
also?
MR. LITS1NGER: That's correct. That's one impact fee for
libraries.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Do you think an im -- an impact
fee increase is appropriate?
MR. OLLIFF: I believe that -- I believe that impact fee is
scheduled for review in the next fiscal year. We've tried to rotate
them so we're not reviewing them all in a given year but on a regular
cycle. I think the library impact fee will probably reflect like most of
the impact fees rising costs for property and rising costs for
construction, and I think that will -- that will be reflected in the
impact fee that you see for libraries next year.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And then if we do that it reduces
the impact upon the general fund, I would presume?
MR. OLLIFF: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Raise the impact fees high enough so
nobody can afford to live here.
MR. LITSINGER: Motion on library book stock?
Page 44
December 18, 2001
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion
that we direct staff to include the planned CIE for 2002-2006 book
collection in addition in the next annual CIE update and amendment.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a motion by Commissioner
Henning; I have a second by Commissioner Fiala. Discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries. Thank you.
MR. LITSINGER: Moving on to your next facility-type
government buildings, Aaron, if you'll put up Slide 70 -- there we go.
Here staff is taking a different route, a route which is to this Category
B public facility. Here this is based on experience over the last 13
years. We are recommending that due to the nature of space planning
and its complexities in the current century, if you will, that we don't
believe that government buildings is an appropriate facility type for
inclusion in your comprehensive plan. It's best handled through your
management skills of your facilities management department and the
county manager's office.
As you can see here, based on the adopted level of service
standard, it appears that we're packed in like sardines, and it doesn't
appear to be the case. There are some facilities being planned which
are reflected in this particular chart, but even so, we show a lot of red.
The bottom line is, is we would like a direction from you to remove
government buildings as a facility that is tracked within the capital
improvement element. We think it's more appropriate for the budget
process and the annual review that you undertake each year.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Which would be under capital
Page 45
December 18, 2001
expenditures in that budget.
MR. LITSINGER: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: But that needs to be laid down -- I'm
going to come back to these two volumes over here to my left that if
-- you know, that has to be updated as we go and revised in a number
of ways, but to me that should be the road map that takes you to
whatever you want to bring in to propose to the board in terms of
capital expenditures in a given year looking at five years, ten years,
what we have to do to provide those facilities.
MR. LITSINGER: Yes, sir. And it's been our experience over
the last 12 years with the plan that this has not really been a driving
factor in the board's decision-making process on this facility type, so
we don't see the rationale in continuing it as a facility type that we
track in a capital improvement element.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And that means you remove it as a
level of service standard.
MR. LITSINGER: Right.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Excuse me one second. Is this
something that can be offset by impact fees? Is it offset by impact
fee?
MR. LITSINGER: There is no impact fees associated with --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So, in other words, we're
putting ourselves farther and farther in the red where some day we're
going to have to make an adjustment. Also, too, does this really
reflect what's happening, or are a lot of these people placed into
rental units out there? Is that what's happening?
MR. OLLIFF: We've been making some effort to try and
eliminate that. But, yeah, you -- you still do have a number of your
operations that are in rental facilities. The largest one that comes to
mind in particular is the clerk of courts' finance department. The
Page 46
December 18, 2001
entire department is in rental space. Your housing and urban
improvement department is currently in rental space. And then you
have a number of other small operations in rental space.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm a little disappointed by this
because what I'm seeing doesn't make sense. If we're paying to rent
buildings out there, put people in there, we're gaining nothing as far
as our -- as the value of the building itself; we are making payments
for it at a time when interest rates are at an all-time low. Has there
been some sort of balance to come up with this whole thing where the
break-even point is where we should move on to our own
construction?
MR. OLLIFF: I will tell you that when you get to later on in
this particular meeting and you start looking at the funds that you're
going to need to pay for road construction, my guess is you're not
going to have a whole lot available, even though interest rates are
low, to be able to put towards any new government buildings. And
while there may be a need out there, I think we're in a position where
we've got to prioritize what we can and have to build. And I don't see
the opportunities for additional government buildings, even though it
may make some long-term sense, happening today.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But it -- there's no cost analysis
as to the renting as far as ownership goes as where the break-even
point would be like 18 months, 2 years, 5 years, 15 years?
MR. OLLIFF: We've not done that, no. But I will tell you that
over the last couple of years you have eliminated a great deal of what
was leased space. You ended up buying some building space for the
sheriff's department getting a great deal of his off-campus operations
out of leased space, and we have been taking out some of the
buildings that we were leasing. So I will tell you that in a percentage
basis what you are still leasing or renting is fairly insignificant
compared to what -- what you own.
Page 47
December 18, 2001
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. The school system, once
they start building the schools, we can take those trailers and set them
up on campuses.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I've got dibs on one for
Copeland, so keep your hands off of that one.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I make a motion, Mr.
Chairman, to take this out of the AUIR report. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a motion by Mr. Henning, I
have a second by Commissioner Coyle. Any discussion? (No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The motion carries, 4-1.
MR. LITSINGER: Moving on to your next Category B facility
type, emergency medical services, which we measure in terms of this
is response units per capita, we have a very unique level of service
standard which equates to approximately one unit per 15,000
population. This was amended about five or six years ago in an effort
to achieve a target response rate of less than six minutes per call.
My latest correspondence with the folks over at EMS is that we
are very close to maintaining that response rate. The source of
revenues here is a combination of impact fees and augmentation by
general fund revenues where impact fees are insufficient to provide
the necessary units.
On page 73, we show a chart which may be a little bit
misleading, and it shows all the proposed unit additions doing the
planning time frame actually going out into the FY '10 period which
Page 48
December 18, 2001
does show a technical -- due to extreme increase in population
growth during the '90s a technical deficiency. But we have no
indication that the response rate and the level of service has fallen
below the standards that we have set for the community.
And the staff recommendation is that we include the identified
units and timing as provided by the EMS staff in the coming CIE
update and amendment.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll make that motion for
discussion.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We have a motion by Commissioner
Henning.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a second by Commissioner
Fiala. Discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Hearing no discussion, I'm going to
call the motion. All in favor signify by saying aye. (Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 5-0.
MR. LITS1NGER: Two last facility types. Here, again, staff is
-- based on analysis over the past 12 years, it relates to the two
dependent fire districts, Ochopee and Isle of Capri. And what staff is
going to recommend to you is due to the fact that similar to the
situation that we have seen with government buildings being part of
the capital improvement element over the past 10 to 12 years and the
fact that Ochopee and Isle of Capri are localized services and not
county-wide, that we continue to manage them as independent
districts from the county manager's offices and through facilities
management and that we eliminate them as facilities in your capital
Page 49
December 18, 2001
improvement element, not at all under diminishing the importance of
these facilities. But we have not found it to be a useful planning tool
to count the number of fire vehicles at each station in order to
determine the level of service being provided. And it's our
recommendation to hear in both cases to eliminate both Ochopee and
Isle of Capri as capital improvement element facilities.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I move staff's recommendation.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a second by Commissioner
Fiala. Discussion?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: There would be no change, of
course, in the level of service? This -- this has nothing to do with the
level of service that's going to be provided to the citizens out there.
MR. LITSINGER: The level of service is based on the number
of trucks, if you will, per capita, and we don't feel that this is a
relevant level of service in actually determining whether or not the
quality of life and response times have been sufficient to serve the
communities in question, and we just don't think that it adds anything
to your planning process to include these in the capital improvement
elements.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The other question would be
the fact that this services a small district for itself. Do the people in
that area contribute to the cost of this directly, or do we pay for it on
a county-wide basis?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It -- I think it is augmented by
the general fund.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Those -- those are both dependent fire
districts. The general fund does contribute some money to Ochopee
through the payment in lieu of taxes due to the volume of federal
lands that are within the Ochopee boundaries. And Isle of Capri is
fully self supporting through their own millage on residents on Isle of
Page 50
December 18, 2001
Capri. I believe it's one mill currently.
MR. OLLIFF: Just -- your comprehensive plan, which is what
you're looking at, is more of a county-wide planning document. And
these are two very small fire districts and probably just in essence
don't belong in your county-wide comprehensive planning document.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Besides, you shouldn't be
measuring the amount of vehicles by per capita; it should be response
time.
MR. LITSINGER: Yup.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Call the motion. All in favor signify
by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 5-0.
MR. LITSINGER: Mr. Chairman, that completes the AUIR
presentation with the exception of roads which I'll turn over to Mr.
Feder.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And we're going to take ten minutes,
let magic fingers rest her fingers.
(A short break was held.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Welcome back, ladies and
gentlemen, to our -- to our workshop. The next portion will be
described -- describing and discussing transportation funding options
which I'm sure everyone has a keen interest in.
MR. FEDER: Mr. Chairman, for the record, Norman Feder,
your transportation administrator.
What I wanted to do is cover a couple areas. I'll give you a
quick overview on how we plan on continuation of our discussion
from the last meeting. Seems to be an echo chamber here.
First of all, what we want to do is review with you specifically
Page 51
December 18, 2001
what the needs are over the five-year period, in particular, the issues
relative to concurrency that are in your AUIR, what approach we feel
that we can take to respond to those particular items, and move into
that into the dollar costs that will be needed for us to respond. And
I'm going to have Mike Smyskowski cover that portion.
At the same time I do that, though, and as difficult and important
the decision is in how we address this backlog that we find ourselves
faced with -- more importantly, I think, that we want to get after
we've got that decision on how to address the backlog is what do we
do in the way of policy changes and process changes so we don't end
up here again. In many respects, that's even more important than the
first, as important as that is.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I have a question before you
get any further, if you don't mind. And that is, when does the state
step in and tell us we have to do whatever they say or that our -- that
our level of service is out of line or that our roads are not in line.'?
When do they actually step in and tell you, regardless of what you
say, you better do this?
MR. FEDER: I will defer some of this, if he cares to, to Stan
Litsinger as well. But essentially, first of all, the state allows the
county to set its level of service as part of your Land Development
Code and growth management plan you are setting local service,
basically everything here in Collier County except for the interstate.
So even state roads you're setting the level of service for.
In your own Land Development Code, one of your responses to
a congested facility is to allow you to lower the level of service.
Here we've already exercised that or in some cases where we haven't
already done it, we've already exceeded that lower level of service
existing today. So we've allowed a backlog to develop over time.
So in answer to your question, to some degree the state isn't
necessarily going to come -- an intervening party could come, but at
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December 18, 2001
any point in time especially as we get ready this February, March to
update the growth management plan, that would be the time that the
state's going to be looking at our process evaluating how we're
handling it and if appropriately we're responding to the requirements
under 9-J-5 under the state comprehensive planning --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Is there a time limit?
MR. FEDER: Basically I think in the nature of the question
relative to the time limit, if I understand the question, if we don't
address the item and it turns out -- my voice tends to carry, so maybe
we don't even need the mic.
But what I will tell you is if you get in a situation where you
don't meet your own level of service and you don't have other
options, you don't have any project program within the three years to
make the needed improvement, you can no longer lower the level of
service, your Land Development Code today, and we're going to
recommend some modification to that, but basically provides you
only other alternative is to effectively go into moratorium.
It also provides and describes large areas of-- of impact that
would result from that. The only problem with that is it in the
process means that you then have to go forward and find a solution.
And basically within the course of the year before you come to your
next cycle, if not pushed for sooner through the courts by somebody
who seeks to develop, you essentially have to have the solution. So if
you've already lowered the level of service and that's no longer
available to you or you exceeded it, if you have no specific
improvement you can make or you can't make that improvement and
get construction done within the first three years, then what has
moratorium brought you? It's brought you one year of delay and the
same conclusion that you have here today that you have to do and
then the possibility of lawsuit, time, and so you have delay for a year
but not necessarily stoppage and not necessarily solution.
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December 18, 2001
We're going to recommend to you, as you'll hear more later, that
we consider an approach that's taken by the state and by many
counties of constrained and backlog which allows you then to go in
and set very specific processes for metering the growth, responding
to the nature of identifying the area where you really have substantial
influence of impact rather than arbitrary and allows you, then, to
control growth. Instead of the issue being the county on the seat to
finding a way to resolve the moratorium, the issue then becomes for
anyone that wants to develop within that corridor to meet the
standards or find a way to develop with a little bit more ingenuity or
innovation to find a way to keep the process moving within that
particularly affected area.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, the whole -- to me, the whole
objective is stay out of court. Find the ways to work through the
process. And I'd sure spend money correcting the problems than
spending it in court trying to defend probably a nondefensible
position.
MR. FEDER: Correct. And I'll add to that, just a further
statement, I believe you're saying to me as well, Commissioner, and
that is that we need to regulate growth where, in fact, we can't meet
our own level of service and don't have an opportunity to do so. And
that's exactly what we're recommending to you, is not just avoidance,
is a more positive approach to doing it rather than taking the extreme
that won't hold up, an extreme that just delays it for a short period
and forces you back to the table to the very issue that's in front of you
today. We're not recommending delay. We're recommending
solution and an approach that doesn't avoid. It meets the issue head
on and tries to develop something that is useful and is practicable for
all body's concern.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. I'd say let's proceed.
MR. FEDER: Let's go forward. Okay. I appreciate that.
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December 18, 2001
Basically what you have in front of you is a package. The first
one that I'll call your attention to is in your AUIR report. It's a minor
modification to that, so I'll just tell you that I gave you that to replace
the one that's in your report. The changes are really not terribly
substantial, and whatever there are will be covered in what we're
doing in the presentation right now, but I do give that to you to
update your package.
I'll also note that the materials I'm going over, Sharon Newman
-- and, Sharon, identify yourself. Anyone who needs a copy of the
material in the package, she has some extra copies. I think most of
the audience already has been provided a copy.
The first thing you have in that package that we're going to go
over the six pages is basically looking at the five-year work program
based on the available revenue sources that you have today. As you
know, we have these gas tax max to the highest level that you can
implement. You took the action, this board, to extend that out to
2023. The other funding source, which is roughly about half-- we've
got specific numbers here in the package of your revenue source -- is
as well the impact fees. Those impact fees, again, are at the
maximum level based on the study that was finished in the end of '99
and implemented in 2000. We're in the process right now of
evaluating again both sides of that equation, what the costs are and --
and what the demands are for services so that we can bring back to
you, again, that opportunity to make sure that we are charging the
highest level legally allowable based on that direct nexuses between
the demand that's created and the cost to deliver that service or
demand, and that should be available for you, as we noted, February
to March of this year after we finish the studies.
So essentially based on those two revenue streams which are at
the highest today and impact fees being reevaluated, this is the 5-year
work program we accomplish out to fiscal year 2006 which is
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December 18, 2001
essentially 188, 189 million dollars.
The next page you have is something you've pretty much seen
previously with a minor change. And what I'll tell you is we showed
in green what I am going to present to you today needs to be funded.
We have to fund this if we're going to take care of that backlog, if
we're going to start some of the preparation not to end up there again.
The predominant dollars here are addressed specifically, that backlog.
I'll show you in a minute there are some dollars to make sure that we
keep the production going for the demands that are coming on line.
The items that are in red here are not recommended, and you'll
see the terminology enhanced. But I need to point out to you not all
of these dollars are, quote, unquote, enhanced dollars. These dollars
in red, the 44 million, as you see down in the lower right-hand comer,
we're not recommending giving the -- the level of funding demand
that you face here today. We're not recommending that we proceed
on -- on those items for inclusion in the five-year work program at
this time.
I will call your attention to the enhanced section first. We've
already discussed this, and I won't belabor it, the expanded
landscaping and the street lighting that were coming out of your
community character study that you, Commissioner Carter,
mentioned earlier today, as well as an expanded resurfacing and
preservation program acknowledging basic life cycle of our facilities
and the demand to maintain them up to speed.
What that means there is we are going to pull back on those --
those amenities, but it also means what I just said, that we are going
to face some potholes. We will patch them. But we will face a little
more constraint on that ride, and the issues, we'll make sure the
system is preserved, but it will not be the kind of system that we had
hoped on a major life cycle, much as the state does on their system
that we could have provided given this pull-back of dollars.
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December 18, 2001
The area I'll particularly focus your attention to, because I think
it's very, very important, is that section that says base operations or
maintenance where you see that we maintain more your turning
movements and -- and the intersection enhancements because more
and more you'll find we need that to keep up our capacity and get the
best use out of the facilities we have. But other than that, this
represents basically taking our current level of operations, and on the
first page you see pull-back to that extreme that we mentioned to you
for the current fiscal year, and that was the last meeting we discussed
that and basically carrying that reduction all the way out.
So you've got a number of items here, whether it be drainage
improvements, whether it be traffic calming, whether it be bridge
repair and -- and rehab as opposed to just minor repairs, whether it be
some of these items, I need to bring to your attention. Again, this is,
in effect, a level of service operationally that we're telling you we
can't fund here, and yet I'm telling you an awfully big tag that I am
asking you to fund, that we need to fund today. So I want you to be
aware that when we say without enhancements, I'm talking not just
landscaping, if you will. I'm talking down into the bare bones of our
continued maintenance of a system that people have become
accustomed to. So when we get those calls in and I want somebody
to clean out my ditch, we're going to be as responsive as we can.
Please understand, we're not going to use this as an excuse not to be,
but please understand we may be in a position where we have to say I
have to schedule that a year out; I can't address it right away. So I
want you to be aware of that. It's a level of service on the operational
side of things. It's in that enhanced program.
With that being said, the green number you have down here,
basically 258 million, almost 259 million, is specifically what I'm
going to ask Mike Smykowski in a few minutes to go through with
you as to different options and how we can actually fund that beyond
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December 18, 2001
the 188 million that you have in the current revenue stream.
I will go further quickly through the rest of it because you've
seen a lot of it, just a few highlights. The third page here you have
basically in listed form what you saw in those two five-year work
programs. The first grouping is showing you that the projects that are
under construction today are obviously funded out of the existing
revenue stream. Beyond that you can only get to four major other
capacity projects with current revenue stream.
The remaining projects, the first grouping showing you the
unfunded that need to go to construction within the first three years
effectively of that work-program cycle and then shows you the items
we need to start working on in the fourth and fifth year in particular
to be ready for year '07, '08, '09 coming up.
The next page you have on -- on page 4 is a actual map
representation of much of the same. And before I confuse you,
because we had so many colors -- you run out of colors after a while -
- let me tell you that this is back to your old issue here where green
means it is funded today. That's effectively that first 5-year work
program, the 188 million. The red and the yellow -- and the yellow is
traffic ops improvements. But the red and the yellow are part of that
259 million that is needed but not currently funded today. And, of
course, this only covers those that go all the way to construction. So
basically the first three categories on that prior page that I showed
you in the funded and the unfunded. So the yellow, as I said, is -- is
an enhancement to show you here in traffic operations enhancement.
Let me pull that into more detail to get down to the specifics of
your AUIR and gone beyond just the idea of a five-year work
program. What is the fifth page in the package, the one that you have
to turn the package around, if you will, basically lists as you saw in
the AUIR that was presented to you, I believe, on the 30th the listing
of facilities, both state and local, that require attention within the first
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December 18, 2001
three years or by at least our current process you would have to go to
moratorium if you could not lower the level of service further.
In essence, on these projects here, you've got four state facilities.
And I think an important item for this board and one we've raised
previously and I think we've gotten direction, but I want to make sure
we'll confirm there, and as we look at that, new direction for the
future, is in the past when we've had a state facility there's been an
orientation because the state wouldn't widen it, we're not responsible
for controlling growth on it, so if it's not meeting its level of service,
you continue to permit development on it. That is obviously wholly
unacceptable, at least from my own staff's opinion. I believe that's
the impression I've gotten from this board. And so we are attending
to the state deficiencies as well, as well we should. And we permit
development around it. And, additionally, a state facility or segment
allowed to degrade has very definite impacts on all the other facilities
around it.
So with that sort of head nodding and my impression of the
direction the board wanted to go, we are addressing the state facilities
as well.
What you have over in the right is how we're proposing to
handle this set of deficiencies, and so I'll take them basically one by
one and be happy for any discussion that the board wants to have.
This is the meat of the item and then going to the funding and the
policies.
U.S. 41, Golden Gate Parkway to Pine Ridge, in parenthesis
where it says existing, that's telling you it's a deficiency today. We
have to address, of course, anything that would become deficient in
the first three years in particular under the AUIR state of the system,
so to speak, report. In this case we are recommending -- and I will
defer to a little bit later -- constrained. And I'll respond to that in a
little while, and Dawn will even cover it in more detail later.
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December 18, 2001
Davis Boulevard from Radio to 951 is an existing deficiency,
and we are recommending backlog. And, again, I'll come back to
that in a minute.
And I will just call your attention to the very last one on the list,
Vanderbilt Beach Road, Gulfshore Drive, U.S. 41. We are
recommending constrains. As I said, we'll cover that.
Those are the three segments where that 259 million, in addition
to the 188 we have today, we could not, one, lower level of service
or, two, provide an improvement that would resolve the deficiency.
But we are going to recommend to you a process, as I mentioned at
the outset to the question, that is not just one of what I will consider
defeat, which is moratorium, just we don't have a plan, we don't know
how to address it, so we're going to delay for a little while and try to
figure it out when we know that there is not the easy solution. There
is not the dollars that can be brought to it. There is not the policy
way in lowering level of service or anything of the sort to get out of
it. These three we're going to recommend a partial that I think to
your Land Development Code to include constrained and
backlogged. We're going to recommend a process that allows us to
really look at growth in there, as I said, to be reasonable process for
continued growth but also controlled and very controlled growth,
within those segments where we have no other solution to the
problem.
Let me go to the rest of them, and then we'll come back to that,
as I said, in some more detail. 1-75, Golden Gate Parkway to Lee
County line, fortunately the expansion and the commitment and the
plan of Livingston Road, particularly the six-laning sections and then
the four and that continuation through Lee County up through Bonita
-- the City of Bonita Springs, a very big relief to 1-75.
Another major relief to 1-75 will be the new Golden Gate
interchange, which in 2004 is in the state's work program. That will
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December 18, 2001
provide some relief to interchanges which are really, in many ways,
metering that capacity on the interstate today. When you have cars
actually back up and sit on the interstate at Immokalee Road and the
like southbound, obviously that's impacting your capacity to the
interstate. So the ability to disburse those trips over another
interchange level it off a bit as well as the state plans in 2009 to come
in and make improvement. I don't want to just say six-laning because
there's some other things they're going to look at but, nonetheless,
some improvements to the main-line operation. I think all of those
pretty well address that issue, at least for the time being.
State Road 29, Marco Island bridge, that's an existing
deficiency. There we got an interesting one. The problem is not on
what I will call the north side of the bridge because as you come from
a single lane into the access of two lanes, you can move the traffic
very well. The major backup that we're experiencing is onto the
island itself.
And so we are going to continue to work with the City of Marco,
look at the light progressions, the intersection treatments and issues
there, and continue working with the Florida Department of
Transportation. They have the design already in their work program
for the bridge. It appears that their concept in using storm septor and
the like, if they can get that agreed through the permitting, that they
can go to construction without a right-of-way phase.
So we're going to continue as -- as this board, as members on the
Metropolitan Planning Organization have, of making that a high
priority encouraging DOT's programming, and also work with the
City of Marco Island to look at our operational features which should
resolve this -- this anomaly of a two-lane bridge coming on as a
deficiency.
Going to the county projects, Airport-Pulling Road, Davis to
Golden Gate Parkway, we have, as you know, and we hope to retain a
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December 18, 2001
state transportation outreach program grant of some 8.4 million to
assist towards the funding of an overpass which will go along with
the interchange at Golden Gate Parkway and the six laning which are
also in the plan, the interchange, of course, being in the state's plan,
an overpass at Airport and Golden Gate Parkway.
That overpass is one we've worked very well with the adjacent
property owner on. It's one of the few that we've brought to this
board as recommendation for an overpass in the near term and is one
of the few ways we're going to be able to address the problems that
we're facing on Airport, given that Airport is already six lanes today.
But we are noting to you as well operational improvements, and
we had a lot of discussion with that on the 30th relative to closure of
some medians, review of our signal spacings and timing and other
issues, trying to make sure we get the best and in some cases
recapture some of that capacity on constrained already six-laned
facilities.
So the overpass and traffic ops improvements we feel will
address that issue of the congestional experienced on Airport today.
951 from Golden Gate Parkway to Immokalee Road, this is one
that we looked at. Our current right-of-way will allow us to build
four lanes out there. We do not have the right-of-way for six. Our
typical process and what we try to do is basically have the right-of-
way for the ultimate six lanes, if that's -- if that's seen as a need out
into the future, and then build the four in a manner that allows the six
to be built to the interior into the median to have the least disruptive
and to set the outside limits of the project from the start.
What we're recommending to you is not appreciably but is
somewhat more costly, just so you know that up front, and that is to
go in and do a four-lane cross-section within the existing right-of-
way, and you'll see sort of anomaly look in the work program
recommending a couple years out that we program the right-of-way
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December 18, 2001
completion. In this case we have quite a bit of the right-of-way that's
been reserved by setback, that extra 60 feet but, nonetheless, the
remainder of that be purchased so that we prepare for that need for
six lanes out into the future.
So essentially we can four-lane it. That's what the demand is
today to resolve -- this is a two-lane section, as you're all quite well
aware.
951 from Davis to 1-75, an existing deficiency. And this is
really a state road, and it should have been up there under the state.
But that Davis to 1-75 is pretty much an item tied to the Golden Gate
interchange and the department -- Florida Department of
Transportation's improvements on 1-75.
Immokalee Road from 41 to 1-75, that is an item that we have
shown you previously as a need to go to six lanes. We have that and
are recommending that that be put into the program or funded out of
that 259 million.
The same with Pine Ridge, Golden Gate to Shirley. There we
already have six lanes today. What we did is we looked at that one.
That was one of those limited ones -- remember we gave you the list
on the 30th -- where going to Level of Service E will provide some
relief in some time to function at that level. We've got about 1.6
percent growth per year. We have a flatter rate of growth on that
corridor, but that is not a lot of room. So I'm also recommending that
we also go into some traffic-operation improvements, in particular
recaptures, as I mentioned, some of that right-of-way, look at our
pattern of-- of median openings and the like.
Vanderbilt Beach Road from Airport to Logan, that six- and
four-lane cross-section we've discussed before, part of the 259
million.
Santa Barbara, Radio to Golden Gate Parkway, again, that
process of Santa Barbara, Santa Logan, if you will, in those sections
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December 18, 2001
to six lanes needs to be funded out of that 259 million.
Immokalee from County Road 951 to Wilson, under current
funding we have the portion from Wilson to 43rd we originally had
as a single project. We probably would have divided it up for
construction because of the length anyway. But, again, this is a
shown as a need four lanes to go in that 259 million.
Wilson to Oil Well is funded advanced. The only reason that
one's in there is when we showed you the plan before, what we could
afford in the five, we tried to level it out. That is something we could
have funded under the 188, so we just advanced it into the first three
years as originally was anticipated.
Goodlette-Frank Road, Pine Ridge to Vanderbilt, again out of
the 259. We need to go to a four-lane cross-section.
The same with County Barn. We've got to design a portion of
the right-of-way again. We need to four-lane that project. And I
think it's been in and out of the work program in this county more
times than any other project that existed. We need to finally do it and
-- and get the job done.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Excuse me, Norm.
MR. FEDER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Let me stop you right there. With
that County Barn Road, does this money that needs to be funded for
the widening also include some of the storm water -- I know --
MR. FEDER: We have put in a larger portion of dollars for
mitigation acknowledging that as part of the overall Lely storm-water
efforts. That would -- that would be developed as County Barn.
There's going to be more of a mitigation effort to try and assist in
that. This is not funding all of the Lely mitigation, but there are extra
mitigation dollars built into that 259 for this project specifically to
assist in that mitigation needs for the Lely storm water.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: One more fast question. Because
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December 18, 2001
there's such a tremendous flooding problem in the area as it is and if
you build that road up, I would guess the slope would cause even
more of a funding problem, does that transportation dollar figure
include trying to eliminate some of that funding?
MR. FEDER: Yes. First of all, every design that we do we
make sure that the runoff from the roadway does not impact the
adjacent part. That's a requirement that we have to address,
Commissioner, with the first inch. And then we have to attenuate, if
we can attenuate, and treat -- the fact of the matter, that we will cover
that. Canals will be modified. Beyond that basic process to get our
permitting done, though, we've also included some dollars,
understanding that we will have some specific mitigation
requirements as part of the permits for this project.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you.
MR. FEDER: The answer to your question is yes. Until we get
through the permitting, we won't know all of the costs, but we've
given it a good shot.
Radio Road from Livingston to Santa Barbara, there we're
looking at traffic-operations improvements really from Airport. This
section just now Livingston to Santa Barbara; from Airport all the
way over to Santa Barbara; from Santa Barbara over to Davis, you'll
see in the program out of those six, we're recommending four-laning.
And, of course, we're doing the modifications to that intersection as
we speak.
Rattlesnake Hammock all the way to 951, much like the 951
project I mentioned to you, we're looking at four-laning within the
existing right-of-way. Depending upon what comes out of the
discussion on the future extension of Santa Barbara south, we'll know
whether or not we go beyond four anyway in the future. And so if we
decide that, then we may have to come back and buy additional right-
of-way in the future for six, but not knowing the results of that four-
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laning is something we can do with existing right-of-way today, and
that's in the 259 million.
Those are -- are basically the approach on each of these. I don't
want to take too much time right now with constrained and
backlogged other than tell you as we -- we already discussed, what
we're recommending is an approach that we go into modification to
the Land Development Code. We establish those categories that
we've already used constrained but we haven't defined it. We haven't
controlled on the basis of it.
The City has constrained. We have in these projects --
especially 41 is one of the ones we identified we need to work with
the City very directly on how we apply it, how we find a way to
acknowledge its status, yet at the same time find the opportunity for
creativity to allow things to continue to a degree and not exasperate
that facility and the rest of the network. We'll discuss that in a little
-- in a few minutes.
But before I go to that, before we try to figure out if it's only the
three we're talking about, we need to go back to that issue of the 259
beyond the 188 that we have available today. How do we address
that? Does this board take that action hopefully today? And we've
got some options for you and then to go to that and then come back to
this and some policy and process issues that Dawn and I will be
presenting to you. I'm going to defer over to Mike Smykowski, our
budget director, to address that. Before he does that, is there any
question on what we've covered so far?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you. On the list of red
and green, recommendations to cut some level of services, in there is
there acquisition for right-of-way for the community character plan,
street lights, so on and so forth?
MR. FEDER: No. All of that was an enhancement that got
pulled back, a lot of our effort to a collector road system. And I'm
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very concerned about that, and I appreciate you raising it. I -- I hit it
on the 30th, but maybe get that again today, as well as some of the
other features of community character are not in here. We are not --
we are not necessarily developing that collector road system at the
same time while attending under this to those constraints that we face
today on the principal network.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is the right-of-way included in
it? No?
MR. FEDER: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It is not?
MR. FEDER: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I thought that's what the board
direction was.
MR. FEDER: Okay. Let me -- let me go back to the question.
If the question is, are we buying right-of-way for the ultimate
improvements of possible sidewalks, street lighting and landscaping,
yes, with one exception. One area that we are pulling back on that
we feel comfortable doing so is the section which Commissioner
Coletta needs to hear this particularly of Immokalee Road between
951 and Wilson. There we've looked at it and probably the basic
street lighting, the sidewalks and the on-street bike paths we can save
about a million and a half for that long expanse. And probably
realistically that one makes sense based on the limited size for
development, if you will, within that section. There we're not
proposing to place that.
We are proposing, though, in all of our projects, as you
requested, that we buy the ultimate right-of-way no matter whether or
not we proceed forward on some of the other issues. I was mistaken,
and I do want to, though, emphasize that the community character
concept called for the development of a collector road system, and we
had put in some dollars in our original plan towards purchase of
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December 18,2001
right-of-way retrofitted existing to try and develop that needed
collector road system. That is some of the enhancement that has been
pulled out of the dollars that we've recommended to you here today.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: If I might pursue that a moment, if we
make that decision not to go there, can we ever go back?
Of course.
CARTER: And what will it cost?
You can always go back, and it always costs
MR. FEDER:
CHAIRMAN
MR. FEDER:
more.
CHAIRMAN
MR. FEDER:
escalate over time.
CARTER: Would it cost double? Triple?
I don't know that I can tell you that. It will
It's going to be the escalation of right-of-way
costs. It's going to be the escalation of new development that comes
in that -- that either precludes you or makes it much more expensive
to try and do it the longer you wait --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The more it costs. I'm just looking at
history and what it's costing us to get right-of-ways today. If we had
some number or projection, it's going to cost you 10, 15 percent a
year, and the longer you put it off the more you exasperate your
abilities to do a collector system which overall would have defined
character, which would have alleviated the arterials -- I mean, I see it
as a situation I'd really like to have that information.
MR. FEDER: Okay. And -- and what I will tell you is, we've
got some dollars still in here, and we did keep that in the green. I'll
call your attention to the bottom there on the collector. It's about half
of what we had originally told you, so we do have some opportunity,
and we will capitalize on that. We will bring back to you in
successive work program developments that opportunity we felt
today, and what I'll recommend is you hear these dollar figures.
Obviously if the desire is to bring back any portion of that enhanced,
we did recommend to you that we thought it would -- extra frills
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December 18, 2001
would be nice. I will tell you that those were reasonable projects, we
thought, when we brought it to you. We're also understanding that
we're facing a very, very big dollar figure that we have to try and
address. That's why we recommended that pull-back of that 44
million.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Norm, I'm not trying to muddy the
waters here.
MR. FEDER: No, I understand.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm really trying to get that picture in
place because I want everybody listening out there - I want to hear
that loud and clear -- we spent $400,000 on a community character
project to bring to this community what they wanted, and they turned
us down. They told us flat out, "We don't want to pay for it." Now
we got to look at can we in any way, shape, or form pay for it, and
there will be some pain with it if we decide to go there. So I'd really
like to know what the majority of this community thought, for one
time, before I have to make that decision. I can't get that in because I
don't know. But I want to know what the number is, because if I
have to come down to a hard decision, I'm not afraid to go there if it's
the right thing to do for this county in the future.
MR. FEDER: On an annual basis you can look at the items that
we showed you that comprise that 44 million so that you can then
look at any of those components in or out. You know, maybe
resurfacing you don't put under that category; maybe you do. But the
overall is 44 million on those things that we recommended pull out.
That being said, Commissioner...
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. I have a couple more
questions for us.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Sorry, Commissioner. I didn't mean to
interrupt. Do you have a couple more questions, Commissioner
Henning?
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December 18, 2001
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Intersection improvements,
that's -- that's still in the mix? MR. FEDER: Yes, it is.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We're keeping that in. Now,
when we're talking about maintenance or repaving of our existing
roads, are we jeopardizing the base of these roads if we're putting it
off?.
MR. FEDER: We will not allow that to happen and may have to
come back to you, but basically we believe not. However, it's dried
and you may see more patches out there than you typically do to keep
things up while we're going. You'll see more of that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Obviously you worked very
hard on this, and I just wanted to thank you for, you know, some of
these hard cutbacks and -- and some of these delays so we can -- it
makes it easier for us to get at what we need to do.
MR. FEDER: I assure you I didn't make your job easy, as you'll
hear very shortly.
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, just to help maybe your thought
process a little bit, I think if you think about this, there are some basic
questions that the board is going to need to answer today. And the
first question from my perspective is what are we going to find. I
think Norm has laid out his recommendation for what it is that we
fund. But obviously once you go through some of the balance of this,
you may want to back up and go look at that again. But what you see
in front of you, the Christmas green and red list that you have in front
of you, is what Norman and the transportation staff were
recommending that you fund.
The second question is going to be how are you going to fund
whatever it is you decide we are going to fund. And I think Mike's
going to walk you through what your funding options are, and that
may have an impact on that first question, what it is that you are
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December 18, 2001
going to fund. So as we go through this, if you will think of it in
those terms.
And then the last thing that Norman will come back with was --
is a -- a question about these particular road segments that I will tell
you boards historically have dealt with one way. We think that there
are some are other options that you ought to consider in terms of how
we should be dealing with those type road segments, and we'll need
to make decisions about each one of those particular road segments.
So Norm's laid out the -- the what, and we're going to turn to Mike
now to look at what options you have in terms of the how.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If-- ifI may. District 5 has
one pressing need, and it's a very strong need, and I'm sure you're
going to hear about it from many sources, and, of course, that's
Immokalee Road not only to 951 but all the way to Immokalee. And
I've been going through your report, and it's amazing how much --
how far we have come from one year ago, and this was projected to
be 20 years in the future. We have made some great end roads. Of
course, we've lost some direction because of the lack of funding.
Would you please take one moment and walk me through
exactly from 951 to Immokalee the scenario of events the way it's
laid out in here? And that will, of course, be based upon us agreeing
to the financial package, as far as --
MR. FEDER: That's correct, Commissioner. I will -- as a
matter of fact, I'll bring you over from 41. From 41 over to 1-75,
including a separate project, some ramp improvements on 1-75 with
some funds from Florida Department of Transportation, we've got
that scheduled, at least the major portion, six-laned from 41 over to 1-
75 as proposed here in 2003. The 1-75 ramp improvement we may be
able to get a little bit earlier, okay, if we can get the agreements with
DOT finalized.
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December 18, 2001
From 1-75 over to 951, of course, construction is nearing
completion. And we're looking at basically April, March/April,
completion next year on that, and I know that can't come soon
enough for a lot of folks, so that is the four-laning over to 951. From
951 basically out to 43rd, with what is proposed here, both sections
of that would be programmed, one in '02, one in '03 -- excuse me, one
in '03 or one -- yeah. One in '02, one in '03 to get that four-laning all
the way out to 43rd.
The earlier section would be the more -- more intensely traveled
section right now, actually, between 43rd and Wilson and then come
back and connect that Wilson to 951.
Also in here is the opportunity and some dollars for
advancement of the state's programming of the project development
environment study from 43rd over to 29, that opportunity to provide
that fund, get paid back, and to continue to encourage them to
program that section in their work program for advanced
reimbursement to get that needed connection all the way to 29. So
that's basically what's contained within that 259 beyond our 188 that
we have in today's program.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So in the simplest of terms,
from Oil Well Road to 951 the date of completion for everything and
when we, you know, forget the one segment to Wilson to --
MR. FEDER: '04, '05.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: '05?
MR. FEDER: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's the only thing that when
we look at this we might be able to move forward. We have a
situation out there that -- next to none as far as desperate in the
morning, in the afternoon. And I'm sure anyone that's been stuck on
that road at those times realize there's a wait from Orange Tree to
Airport Road as long as an hour and a half to be able to move from
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December 18, 2001
one point to the other. And this situation between now and '05 will
become totally intolerable.
I know I probably am overstepping bounds on this, but I have to.
I need for us to reconsider somehow or some way we come up with
the funding to be able to advance this a couple of years.
MR. FEDER: Commissioner, what I will point out, in all due
respect, obviously it needed to be done yesterday. I don't disagree
with you at all. What I will tell you, though, that you're almost in the
fastest production cycle you could be because you've got 8 miles just
from 951 out to 43rd. You can't have 8 miles under construction at
one time. It just won't work. The contractor will be here, there, and
everywhere, and nobody will get anywhere. So by taking that first
section from 43rd to Wilson, you do get the most traveled sections;
you create a alternate with Logan and other opportunities there -- to
Wilson, excuse me. And then you address that section between
Wilson and -- and 951.
So I'm not sure that you can go much faster than the schedule is
structured today. I think the one that is most critical is that we get the
state's issue moving. The one that isn't on the fast track isn't
programmed for construction right now, is from 43rd or Oil Well,
north of Oil Well, if you will, out to 29. And that's the one we're
recommending that we advance the state's process to keep it moving.
That's probably the one that we don't have commitment of
construction and -- and isn't on the time frame any faster than it could
be today.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I hear what you're saying, and I
appreciate everything you have done, Norm, to put this plan together,
but what I'm saying, there's got to be another way to do something, if
it's bringing in outside sources to work on the roads, whatever it's
going to take to be able to make it work within our financially
constrained budgets. And I don't want to belittle the fact that
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December 18, 2001
whenever it does come to these things -- and I realize that when
you're talking District 5, which is 85 percent of the whole county, it's
kind of hard to cover the whole area in one big jump. But we'll give
up the right -- we'll give up the sidewalks, we'll give up our street
lights and all those amenities that you have in the urban area. We
just would like consideration as we move into this process to maybe
be able to keep special consideration and thought process going
forward for the residents out there in that area that have been trapped
for a number of years now without the roads.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Coletta, excuse
me. I think the hours that you told the board it was busy out on
Immokalee Road is the hours the people going to work. So why don't
we bring the work to the people in Golden Gate Estates by rezoning
lands out there so they do have a place to work and they do have
services out there instead of coming to the coastal community day in
and day out.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's a wonderful idea,
Commissioner Henning, but they all take longer than the roads will.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: People don't want that. That's a
hard decision that you need to make as a commissioner out there is
building a great community is providing all kinds of things out there.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: In time I'm sure we'll meet that
need and many more. But if we don't have the roads built to take
care of present-day needs, then we'll never get to that point.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner, I understand your
frustration. I think every member of this board is frustrated. And if
we don't get to how we're going to pay for what's on this paper,
you're going to be more frustrated than you are right now.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's right.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's exactly right. I think the
issue of financing we're going to see in a few minutes will help
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December 18, 2001
address some of Commissioner Coletta's concerns. At least it will
put it in a clearer focus for us, so I would move that we go directly to
the options for financing because I think you're going to tell us that
there are ways that we can get some of this money to do these things.
And I think if we understand that, then we're going to feel more
comfortable about making some of the decisions that are -- are
decisions on the issues that have been raised.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Okay. With that, for the record, Michael
Smykowski, budget director.
There are -- I'll be walking through the booklets called
Transportation Funding Options. Commissioner has -- has them
available for members of the public who may be in the audience.
There are extra copies in the hallway on the table, and there are extra
copies here as well.
In terms of a desired outcome today, the first slide of the
PowerPoint presentation, which the slides are contained within your
handbook as well as the detailed spreadsheets supporting them -- we
developed just a summary presentation to hopefully simpli -- simplify
what you're looking at.
What we're looking for today in very simple terms is a board
policy decision that provides a financially feasible option to satisfy
the requirements of the AUIR process relative to transportation. And
the growth management staff was very clear in terms of the statutory
requirement being financially -- emphasis on the financially feasible
component. That would include bonding, available gas taxes, a
portion of the available sales tax capacity, as well as potential ad
valorem support on a pay-as-you-go basis for roads.
Before we get into those four funding options, I wish I could tell
you that there is a simple way out of this box. I'm here to tell you,
one, the choices are very limited in terms of what you can do at this
point. Those options include full pay-as-you-go funding, bonding
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December 18,2001
available gas and sales taxes to the extent possible, and a third option
which would include partial bonding and partial pay as you go.
I'm also going to tell you that there are some painful effects
associated which -- with each of those options on a pay-as-you-go
basis. Obviously the millage implications are fairly staggering. In
terms of bonding, your existing sales and gas taxes, while you do
have the flexibility to do that, it does impact your ability to finance
other projects, either on an emergency basis in the event, you know, a
hurricane hit, you had to do major structural repairs to infrastructure.
And there are also, frankly, other projects contemplated in the -- in
the near term that also may require financing to some degree, the jail,
the north regional park. And we'll -- we'll talk about those with --
within the context of each of the scenarios we're going to outline for
you today.
This also limits your ability to decrease the millage even as
taxable value increases over time. Again, there's no easy way out of
the backlog.
The first scenario identifies the millage impact of a -- a pay-as-
you-go road funding program. And I --
MR. OLLIFF: Mike, let me stop you real quick. I just want the
board to understand that when it comes down to the AUIR and the
decision you have to make for funding, don't think you have to get
down to the detail of deciding today what the actual mix of funding
has got to be for fiscal year '02, '03, '04, and '05 and exactly what
projects we're going to fund and how this is a planning document and
we're going to be taking some broad strokes here. And our
recommendation is that if you can pick from the broad options and
tell us to go back and work on the details, we can bring you
something back probably in January, February time frame for you to
consider. Okay.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Thank you for that clarification.
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December 18, 2001
Scenario 1, again, a pay-as-you-go funding option, including the
enhancements that Norman referred to in his opening remarks, again,
those were the items in the red, the $44 million. So that would
essentially be the -- the full -- the full boat of project expenses
totaling 490.5 million.
The available revenues of gas taxes and impact fees, 189
million, leaving a shortfall in this scenario of $300 million. That
would require, on average, 1.9003 mills if you finance -- funded that
on a pay-as-you-go basis over -- over the next four years, three -- FY
'03 through FY '06.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Just so we're clear, that's an
increase in ad valorem property taxes ? MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Which is currently 3.5 mills?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: 3.8772 is your current general fund
millage. That also further assumes a 10 percent annual growth in
taxable value. We -- we -- based on historicals that we think that's
fairly reasonable. Pay as you go, the board's been fairly clear in
terms of pay as you go. We wanted to show that as an option. That
is not the staff recommendation. We just wanted you to understand
the financial implications of it, of that scenario.
MR. OLLIFF: Two things: No, the answer is that is not a
millage increase. The board can look at it any way it wants to. That's
the millage that's required to generate that amount of money. You
currently levy 3.5. If the board wanted to make some fairly drastic
reductions to its current budget, that's part of the mix as well. But
while we're on this slide -- and, again, that's not the staff
recommendation to try and find 1.9 mills worth of reductions in your
budget because I just don't think that's physically very possible, but
that's just an equivalency millage number. That's why we're showing
that to you.
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December 18, 2001
While we're on this slide, I want to make sure Norman at least
touches briefly on the difference in this $301.3 million shortfall
number and the number that you were probably familiar as seeing,
which was a $288 million number from several months ago.
MR. FEDER: Yeah. It's 292 as we went out in the process
before.
But the minor modifications, I'll give the short version. East-
west Livingston was in the prior; when it was 292 is out. The 951
between Golden Gate Boulevard and Immokalee, the four laning
within existing rights-of-way rather than starting the process to future
six-laning, as well, the Rattlesnake Hammock, rather than waiting to
find out what we're going to do on the Santa Barbara extension, that
four-laning is in. The balance effectively of those actions is a slight
modification from 292 to the 301.
MR. OLLIFF: Okay. Thanks, Mike.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: This next slide identifies a -- an
alternative pay-as-you-go funding option that would exclude that $44
million of enhancements. That reduces the shortfall from that 301 to
257.2 million. The impact in terms of millage equivalency is 1.6224
mills, again, assuming a 10 percent growth in taxable value in each
fiscal year. Again, that's probably not unreasonable given the recent
history.
Again, though, this is not the staff recommendation. This is
provided to you for clarification sake. It is -- it is a viable funding
option, but in terms of how -- viable in terms of it works on paper,
viability in terms of increasing the millage by 1.6 or coming up with
massive cuts to make that work within the confines of your existing
budget, obviously not as viable.
With that, we'll go to the next funding scenario with a full
bonding option, again, including the enhancements at $44 million
outlined in red, and Norman's summary sheet. In this option you're
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December 18, 2001
bonding virtually all of the available gas and sales tax capacity that
you have remaining. The spreadsheets themselves assume 20-year
revenue bonds with an average interest rate of 5 percent, again,
requiring $301 million in bond proceeds.
This slide identifies the annual increment in terms of debt
service requirements on an annual basis and how those grow over
time. Obviously, this is a five-year road funding program. You're
not immediately in year one going to bond $300 million up front
because there is, obviously, limited ability to spend that money down.
It's also just in terms of project feasibility; that would be spread over
five years. The debt service grows in this case to $26.1 million in FY
'07. And the reason FY '07 is reflected there is that that is the -- the
first year in which you see the full cumulative effect of issuing bonds
in the previous -- in the previous years and, again, the cumulative
impact.
In terms of an equivalent millage, it's relatively low in FY '03
and grows over time. Again, these are all based on assuming 10
percent increase in taxable value.
MR. MUDD: Before you switch that slide, though, Mike, you
need to tell them FY '07, in five years, but it's going to go out to FY
two thousand and -- and '23, and it's going to kind of ramp down
from 2019 to 2023, just about the way it -- it ramped into it at 2007.
So you're going to see steady state FY '07 payments through 2019
before you see them start to decrease into 2023.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But you're going to see ongoing
increases in gas tax revenue and sales tax revenue.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes, and taxable value as well.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And you've got a flat. So what
you have really is a flat debt service out to 30 years, but you have a
steadily increasing sales tax and gasoline tax revenue and ad valorem
property value increases.
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December 18, 2001
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So it's -- it's not like we're
financing or we are actually bonding all of our gas tax or sales tax. Is
that true or not? It might be all of it at one year, but it won't be all of
it over the period of time.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Correct. In the -- in the near term,
though, you will bonding -- in this scenario you will be.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But next year it will be 10 or 15
percent higher, and the year after that it will be higher than that.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: No.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, what has been the traditional
increase?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Three-year sale -- or gas taxes have
grown by an average of 4.6 percent, 4 1/2 percent.
Of that, too, you -- you realize that due to bond coverage
requirements, obviously, you need -- for every dollar of bond you
issue, you need typically, in this case, like, 1.33, $1.33 in hand to
issue a dollar's worth of bonds. So you have to discount the growth
as well by 1.33 to account for that coverage requirement as well, so
you don't get the full -- you don't immediately realize the full
increment that is -- is available. So the 4 ends up being a net 3
percent.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. So--so--
MR. SMYKOWSKI: On average. Sales tax is a little dicier.
Over the last several years we've had on average probably 7, 8
percent increase in -- in sales tax. The projection this year obviously
is for a flat sales taxes growth. The extent to which the state and the
local economies recover following the impacts to tourism and the like
remain to be seen. So we took a conservative approach there, grew it
at the same equivalent as the gas tax, and our average grew it at 3
percent. I think, Susan, if you jump to the next slide, we'll see -- we'll
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December 18, 2001
see the impact.
And you see in the near term, because you're not bonding a
hundred percent up front, you don't -- you have some remaining
capacity. As you get into '07, you're nearing your maximum.
Obviously as the debt service flat-lines out for that -- that remaining
18, 19 years for the balance, again, each of the bonds assume 20-year
-- 20-year term. So when you're issuing bonds in '06, you're looking
at 20 years out from 2006.
But you see incrementally it does begin to grow in, you know,
FY '10 and '11.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And then it continues to grow.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: It would continue to grow beyond that,
correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Scenario 2, the consequences of this full
bonding option, again, this is including that $44 million
enhancements. By bonding virtually all your gas and sales taxes, you
impact your ability to finance other capital -- other capital projects.
Some of the things that were in the -- in the planning stages include,
you know, the courts and constitutional officer building on this
campus, an emergency services complex, the -- the jail expansion, to
-- to the extent, obviously, we talked about jails a little while ago.
There is $5 million currently in the bank from collected impact fees
toward that 20 to $25 million project expense, and we're currently
underway with -- or the board just recently approved an update to that
study that will obviously, we would assume, result in some marginal
increases, as well, in the correctional facilities impact fee rates as
well.
Impact fees, there's been much discussion during the sales tax
campaign relative to the ability to bond impact fees. And they are
bondable, but they, in the financial markets, are viewed somewhat
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December 18, 2001
tenuously. Obviously you're betting on what future growth is going
to be 20 years from now to make that payment in that 20th year of
that -- of that bond you've issued. And, obviously, as the county --
we've been in the peak of a building boom for a number of years.
Obviously commercial -- commercial office space -- commercial and
office space and the like, that curve at some point begins to slow
down. That could obviously impact your future revenue stream, and
that makes investors nervous 20 years out betting that what will
growth be like in Collier County 20 years from today.
So typically -- and Bill Reagan's here, the county's financial
advisor, if there are any very detailed questions relative to the ability
to -- to pledge those.
Typically, though, what you would have is, you would be
bonding and perhaps pledging an impact fee, but you might need a
secondary pledge to provide the security to the investors that there is
a viable source of repayment and that their bonds will -- will be
honored. That -- that secondary pledge typically would be sales tax
in this case. So obviously --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I would guess it's a higher interest rate
because it's a lesser-quality bond. I'm not going to say it's a junk
bond, but it's getting in the category. And that begins -- well, I know
why the investors are nervous, and that begins to make me nervous
because what happens with our overall bond rating for the county if
you start going in this direction?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That is correct. And there are some
implications, obviously. For instance, in the -- the recent bond issue,
the sales tax bond issue that currently anticipates closing in early
January, we have so much excess capacity now that when you
approach the financial market and say we're doing a $50 million
issue, they look very quickly and say you have 2 1/2 times coverage,
go issue your bonds and don't spend a whole lot more time in terms
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December 1 g, 2001
of analyzing the county's financial position. As the further you get
out on that -- on that plank, so to speak, of bonding nearer and nearer
to your ultimate available capacity, the wearier they become and the
more, I guess, detailed analysis they're going to perform to ensure the
creditworthiness, and that may ultimately impact on the interest rates
that are -- and -- and/or insurance requirements that you may be
required to -- to -- to enhance those subsequent bond issues.
Scenario 2 with the full enhancements is not recommended by
staff as well. We feel it absorbs too much of the available capacity
and also has the obvious adverse consequences for other projects
required -- requiring financing, the bulk of which are listed on your
screen.
Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is this -- could this affect
concurrency? One example you have up there, the north regional
park, that is the concurrency item; correct? MR. OLLIFF: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that facility is anticipated
to cost how much?
MR. OLLIFF: The last estimate I saw was somewhere in the
$30 million range.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: With that, we'll push on to Scenario 3,
which is essentially a modification of the scenario you just looked at.
But, again, in this instance we would be excluding that $44 million
enhancements, those items in red from the -- from the worksheet that
you-all have in front of you so that you-all understand what the
implications are.
This bond's immediately the available gas tax revenue capacity
and consumes approximately 78 1/2 percent of the existing sales tax
capacity. But that's, again, Commissioner Coyle, measured as of the
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December 18, 2001
existing capacity as of today. Obviously as -- in all these scenarios,
over time as those revenue streams have grown over time,
incrementally you would be generating some additional capacity over
time. Again, we assume 20-year revenue bonds, on average a 5
percent interest rate requiring $257.2 million. Again, the difference
between those scenarios is the $44.1 million associated with those
enhancements of the -- the shortfall requirement drops from the 301
million down to 257.
Again, the debt service requirements and millage equivalencies
are shown over time. They incrementally grow just as -- as the other
scenario. Again, you're not bonding immediately up front for the full
$257 million. That's a year-by-year process to meet needs within
each of the five years in the plan.
It's also important, in terms of structuring the -- the repayments,
we made the assumption that bonds are issued late in the current
fiscal year so that the first payment would not occur until the
subsequent fiscal year for -- for ease of discussion. And just for the
purposes of the record, we wanted to clarify where that is.
Obviously the millage equivalencies are somewhat smaller
because you're -- you're bonding out $44 million less. It is more
viable, obviously, than Scenario 2. But, Susan, be -- the next slide
you see incrementally the capacity. You're not near the -- the peak of
the columns, in terms of available capacity, like you were in the last
scenario. So obviously in terms of comfort level, this isn't a much
more viable option.
Consequences here, obviously, though, your current capacity, as
provided by the financial advisor, between gas and sales taxes is
approximately $287 million. The -- the scenario before you outlines
a need of 257 million, leaving $30 million in available -- in available
capacity here for emergencies and/or supplemental pledges or stand-
alone pledges for these -- for these other programs. Again, the jail
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December 18, 2001
expansion is probably a 20 to $25 million project. The
court/constitutional officer building and associated parking garage
and enhancements to the chiller system, if that were to be
constructed, is in the $30 million range as well. The emergency
service complex, approximately 7.1 million, is the most recent
estimate and, again, the north regional park, 30 million.
Based on current-date capacity, you would have $30 million.
And obviously here's a few projects alone that would more than eat
that up.
Yes, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Mike, before when we were talking
about jail expansion, I thought we were talking about impact fee --
fees paying that.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes. That is true. Again, though, impact
fees -- the viability of impact fees to be pledged as a stand-alone may
be somewhat tenuous to provide some additional security to that bond
issue and additional security to the investors. You might have to
have a supplemental pledge of sales tax as well backing up should
there be a shortfall in the impact fees for whatever reason, if growth
stopped, if-- whatever the case may be that the investors would have
the security of knowing that sales tax is backing up that issue, and
that would provide greater comfort to those investors.
Now, you may not ever need to actually tap that, but you've
essentially obligated that piece of your available bonding capacity as
a secondary pledge on this issue, and you can't pledge -- if you have
only $30 million available and we had to pledge the bulk of that as a
secondary pledge on the jail, you can't. And even though you may
hope never to tap that, you don't have that capacity now to pledge it
to something else, should -- should the need arise.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I think the reason we're
talking about bonding, with respect to the jail impact fees,
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December 18, 2001
Commissioner Fiala, is that there are not enough jail impact fees to
pay for the cost of construction, so there's no way to get the cash
early enough to begin the construction. So Mike has just been
describing the process of trying to bond it, which I don't think
anybody recommends.
I believe jail impact fees are probably increasing at the rate of
maybe 2 million a year.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: At the current impact rates. So it
will take maybe 10 or 12 years of impact fee collection to be able to
-- to build that jail facility.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes. The current balance is headed into --
this year the estimate was about 4.9 million with approximately $2
million of new money anticipated. Obviously, we did a little better
than that last year. But the jail impact fee also varies widely in terms
of the cost of the impact fee depending on the type of construction.
So it depends. It can gravitate up and down. The EMS impact fees
kind of parallel that track. They kind of yo-yo back and forth from
year to year because it's not like a park impact fee or library impact
fee which is imposed on single and multifamily construction. But the
construction rates vary with the square footage of the buildings
issued. So, you know, what you build in year one may not in any
way, shape, or form resemble what is permitted in the years two to
three to four and beyond. So that revenue stream kind of has that up-
and-down effect.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think we need to go to Scenario 4.
MR. OLLIFF: I need to make sure, though, that I understand
Commissioner Coyle's comment because I think that project, the jail
expansion project, has always been contemplated to be a bonded
project.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But -- but not bonded from impact
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December l 8, 2001
fees.
MR. OLLIFF: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Bonded from jail impact fees?
MR. OLLIFF: Yes, sir. To be bonded from current and future
collections of impact fees. But what Mike's trying to explain is that
there is a requirement for some sort of a secondary pledge in order to
make that -- that bond issue work. And that's generally the advice
that we're getting from your financial advisor. Now, you can, I
guess, attempt -- Bill, correct me if I'm wrong. You can attempt to go
out on a stand-alone impact fee funded bond which would cost you
probably significantly more in either interest or insurance.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, okay.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: The other issue relative to the impact fees,
albeit in terms of cash collections, obviously you have a requirement
that if impact fees are unspent over a certain number of years, they
are remitted back from whence they came. Obviously, you can't wait
20 years or 12 years or however long it would take to accumulate that
20, $25 million in hand because you would have -- in -- in so doing,
you would have refunded half of the money collected as well. So
that's also part of the requirement of-- as to why you would be
bonding that project, just because of the -- the way the system works
in terms of the refunding requirement to those who have previously
paid impact fees and that the money has to be spent within a
reasonable period of time.
MR. OLLIFF: And the same situation that the jail is in is the
situation with the north regional park. That project is anticipated to
be paid for out of your park impact fees. But, again, because of the
magnitude of the size of construction, cost, that project has always
been contemplated to be borrowed against for impact fees in
existence today and future impact fees, and, again, we'll need some
sort of a secondary pledge, in our estimation, in order to make that
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December 18, 2001
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Okay. With that we'll turn to Scenario 4.
Thank you.
This is a modification in that we will be bonding 75 percent of
the shortfall, the shortfall being in this case this $257 million,
because we would be excluding the enhancements here, again, just to
orient you as we head into each of these new scenarios. This does
not contemplate doing that $44 million in enhancements, so you're
aware of that. It would bond available gas tax revenues first and then
use up approximately a third of the -- of today's sales tax capacity.
And the key there, obviously, you have a choice in terms of
what you would ultimately pledge. But gas taxes, by statute, are
restricted solely to roads, for road construction and/or maintenance
depending on which gas tax you're talking about.
Sales taxes are generic in that they can be pledged for roads
and/or any of the other projects that we've previously discussed, jails,
libraries, park, park facilities, etc. So they have greater flexibility,
and in terms of bonding, you would probably choose to bond your
gas taxes first leaving your more flexible revenue stream in your hip
pocket for other projects as needs arise because, again, it could fund
more than roads. It could fund buildings and/or what other types of
facilities are contemplated.
MR. OLLIFF: I need to point out, if you were to ask your
transportation administrator, he probably will tell you he'd much
prefer to reserve some bonding capacity on his side of the house, too.
But I think he recognizes that given the situation that we're in, that he
probably doesn't have that luxury and has probably got to dedicate --
but he will continue to preach that mortgaging your future that -- that
he has been. And in terms of Commissioner Coyle's comment, it is
true that we can expect some -- some growth in terms of our revenue
stream. But what we have also seen correspondingly is a almost
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December 18, 2001
corresponding increase in the cost of construction for those roadways
making --just keeping in the back of your mind the importance of
that indexing idea where your gas taxes are indexed, to some sort of a
CPI so that we can account for that, even more important.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Isn't the estimate for the
construction projects -- don't -- don't they have inflation already built
into them?
MR. FEDER: Regretfully no. Right now in that five-year work
program, those are present-day costs you have in there. One thing
we're doing in our update of the impact fee is also developing a set of
inflation factors so we can then program based on an inflated figure.
But right now it's on present-day cost and that five year -- we didn't
have a five-year work program. I didn't have inflation figures.
There's a lot of things we're working on. So right now that's present-
day cost.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to hear
from our bond advisor about the wisdom of-- of approaching
alternative four.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Reagan, would you step forward,
please.
MR. REAGAN: I was okay until you said wisdom.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Forget I said that.
MR. REAGAN: Okay. You just want me to give you a quick
overview. For the record, I'm Bill Reagan, financial advisor to the
county.
This has been a moving target for us because we don't know
exactly what revenues -- you know, obviously there is one time we
spent hours trying to work on the half-cent sales tax, and that went
down the tubes and also spent a lot of time working on just the sales
tax that you have existing now and your gas taxes.
But I think you should know something that I have advised this
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December 18, 2001
county in the past, that I am greatly concerned and have gone through
some pretty hard efforts to keep your sales tax outside of your
transportation mode. In fact, you have what we call the basket of
revenues which right now includes a lot of your capital improvement
programs that we've included the sales tax. For whatever reason, it
was included in that basket of revenue, and that's going to end. That
-- that bond issue is going to terminate it and mature in 2004. My
goal then was always take it out of that basket so you would not use
your gas tax for anything other than transportation.
The downside to that conversation is that what I always felt that
was the way that this county should grow is that you have two
indentures for capital improvements, your sales tax and other non ad
valorem revenues and then the gas taxes and transportation issues.
We haven't even discussed or even thought ...
I'll just give you an idea of what some of the agencies and also
the insurers will look at is that incorporation is a great thought that
flies around from county to county. You saw your gas taxes and
other problems with some of your non ad valorem revenues as Marco
incorporated, if ! recall. That could happen again very easily in this
county.
You also have not really thought about -- and your investors will
look at this -- any kind of even minor disasters that would require
some very quick cash for you to improve even if you did receive
some sort of federal subsidies. I've worked with a lot of counties,
especially in the panhandle, who have had major difficulties with
their road projects after they're wiped out. And FEMA only comes in
with 50 percent of the profits.
So from a -- and -- and I'll make no one happy with this
statement. I hate to see you use your gas tax -- your sales tax in any
form of your transportation. I know Mike and Norm probably want
to throw me a couple elbows to the face here, but I think in a long-
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December 18, 2001
term financial planning, you take as much as you can in your gas tax.
And if that means you say to us today, gas tax, find out the
maximum, it may not be, Commissioner Coyle, a level debt service.
I may try to push that principal out there, let it grow at a 3 percent
level, have more principal out there. It puts you at some risk, but it
also keeps the risk, in my opinion, lower than if you were to take all
your sales tax or even a portion of your sales tax.
If we couldn't find any way to do it, then I would highly
recommend that we take a very small portion of the sales tax with a
drop -off feature, that after you receive a certain level of gas tax
revenues that's growing at a certain level, that we can drop the sales
tax out of the commitment, because we can't say to the insurers or the
rating agency that we're going to give you 3 7.5 percent of sales tax.
They got it all. They don't really care, and I'm sure some would
disagree with me on this statement about your operation. What they
want to know is, I'm going to get you all of your gas tax and all of
your sales tax money, and don't talk to me about your regional park
or the jail; just pay me by dollars. That's all they're really interested
in. That's why they buy bonds. If anybody wants to buy bonds at 5
percent, we probably should give them a pretty good commitment for
those sort of things.
So in the end result, it's your shortfalls to keep your
transportation moving. We need to find a way -- and I have to advise
you on this -- is to preserve your non ad valorem outside your sales
tax as much as possible, to grab everything like we're talking about
doing. And this is not criticism of-- of Mike's performance here, is
not really good long-term planning. How Norm deals with how he
has to build his roads for $192 million shortfall, that's why he gets
paid so much money, because he'll figure that out some way. I didn't
get a smile on his face on that. But -- but I think we need to come
back to you, as your manager said, with some other financing
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December 18, 2001
alternatives that would,just take your gas tax to the extent that I think
we can underwrite it for you and then see how much we can preserve
without touching your sales tax. That would be the long-term plan.
If you can't do it that way, then we have to fall back to the sales tax
item.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. And I have questions coming
from my left and my right. Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I just want to compliment you
on saying what you believe. It's refreshing to find a consultant that
doesn't follow the direction that we previously lay out. And I -- I
hear what you're saying. And possibly it might be the best scenario
of events if we were to bond the gas tax and use the necessary sales
tax that we have now and as revenue starts to come back into the
stream and increases on the gas tax end of the revenue stream, that
we cut back on the sales tax. Would that work? That's what you're
saying; right? ·
MR. REAGAN: Correct. I want to find a way that if you have
to go in, touch your sales tax, those nonad valorems, those taxes fall
off as a commitment of some period of time, meaning that if gas
taxes hit 150 times coverage, just to give you an example, for a 2-
year period, 24-month period, sales tax then automatically falls off.
Whatever I do, though, in those transactions, I hurt you a little bit on
your interest rate. But that incremental interest rate may be worth a
lot less to you or a lot more to you than pledging all your sales tax.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE.. What percentage of the sales tax
are we actually bonding in this -- this process? Based upon your
chart, it appears to me that a relevant -- about a third, 33 percent of
the sales tax. Now, I understand that the bondholders are going to
want to take anything they can get. But we really, if our estimates are
right, are really only risking 30 percent of the sales tax. Is that true?
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December 18, 2001
MR. REAGAN: Sure. The number stays static for you.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But it actually declines to FY '11
where we're not taking essentially any of the sales tax.
MR. REAGAN: You're assuming that there's a 3 percent in
your gas tax increase.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
MR. REAGAN: Correct. And the assumption would be that
you increase more than a 3 percent over a period of years, and you
have an option of dropping the sales tax.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Exactly. Exactly. Would it be
prudent, then, to issue the bonds which we require now for a five-
year work program, using both gasoline tax and a small portion of
our sales tax, with the expectation and belief that by year FY '11 we
would be completely free of having bonded that sales tax? Is that a
safe assumption or --
MR. REAGAN: Issue? No. Authorize that, probably fine. But
I would not recommend that you would actually issue it; we would
incrementally issue it over a period of time.
For us to determine whether we can get the sales tax to drop off
at some period of time just needs for us to work on it.
MR. OLLIFF: And I think conceptually we're all saying the
same thing. The option, conceptual option that we are
recommending, is maximizing the gas tax, trying to do as much as we
can reasonably do on a pay-as-you-go basis and minimizing the
impact of the sales tax revenue source and preserving that as a
bondable revenue stream for future issues.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Mr. Feder.
MR. FEDER: I think that's a critical part of it, and I appreciate
what Bill's saying, and I don't disagree. The big concern, though, is if
you bond all your gas tax, if we don't have another source to help
pay, whether it's escalating or property value assessments over time,
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December 18, 2001
if it is paid out of the gas tax, then you have, in fact, mortgaged your
future because the only thing you have left is impact fees, and we've
addressed that.
MR. OLLIFF: I told you he'd get that in there.
MR. FEDER: You gave me the entry. You opened the door.
But the other part I do want to point out, though, is the information
we have, previously, is about 150. We're talking 257 roughly. About
150 million is what we could bond out of the gas tax. MR. REAGAN: That's correct.
MR. FEDER: Then how much non -- or how much ad valorem
support or assistance is required beyond our one-third sales taxes is
what I think this group needs to understand so ...
CHAIRMAN CARTER: My question -- I was going to ask the
ugly question: What if you didn't use sales tax and you used either
percentage of that or percentage of ad valorem?
MR. REAGAN: And I think -- I wish I had the answer for you,
but I think that's what we probably need to put together. If you give
this group some direction that those are the three options that we need
to do, we can come back to you and say, "This is what it's going to
take." There is also some financing scenarios which we don't
normally get into in workshops, but we might be able to push the
principal out and may be able to do different types of terms just to
make the transaction easier for us in the front years versus the growth
in the back years.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Again, this goes back to the manager's
comment at the beginning. We want direction relative financially
feasible option of which, frankly, all of these -- all of these are --
obviously, we think Option 4 has -- has more merits because it's
doing the things Bill is talking about. It's minimizing the use of the
sales tax, requiring a portion to be pay as you go. But, again, the
specifics you don't need for your AUIR process. You just need to
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December 18, 2001
commit that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So we've got to give you a
conceptual --
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Sales tax and get -- bonding of sales and
gas tax while minimizing the extent of the sales tax and use on a page
-- and using some pay as you go to make up the difference between
what you're bonding and what you ultimately need to fund that 257
million, plus the incremental cost of the debt service is what -- the
direction we are seeking today, not that alone, but we -- we want to
understand, to the extent possible, the nuances -- the pluses and
minuses of each of those scenarios.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, the issue of ad valorem
property taxes have -- has been raised. I'd just like to understand, if
you were to go back and look at that, are you talking about the
increase in ad valorem property tax revenue which occurs as a result
of the increase in property value, or are you thinking about
recommending an increase in the millage rate?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: The -- the former.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: The first one.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: (Nodded head).
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. No increase in the millage
rate. But you're going to take a look at the increase in property taxes
that we get from a normal increase in property values, not millage
increase, okay. Now, I -- I think -- I think that's an important --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I agree, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- element to all of this --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I agree.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- because we're builting --
building in several safety factors, I believe. We're not bonding all of
these revenues. We're not bonding all of our sales taxes. We have
not really considered the full positive impact of-- of the increase in
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December 18, 2001
ad valorem tax revenues resulting from property tax valuations. So it
-- it seems to me that there are a substantial number of opportunities
to assure that we don't get overextended here. Again, I'm not a bond
expert, Bill, but you're going to have to guide us on that.
What would -- what would be the impact upon the county's
rating if we were to take alternative 4 as it now stands?
MR. REAGAN: You wouldn't -- it wouldn't -- it wouldn't drop
you at all. Keep in mind of one thing especially when you start
talking about including your -- some of your ad valorem. That's what
the rating agencies tend to look for. It's the willingness of the
commissioners to increase their millage if there's a shortfall. And if
you were a county, say, at 9 mills, we'd have a problem. And there
are counties like that. You do not have that problem. So you have
plenty of room.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So if we got into a real, real bind
and our backs were against the wall, we always have the pin -- we
always have the option of going to ad valorem tax increases. But
until that point in time, we have substantial flexibility, I think, to fund
these projects with the financing mechanisms that have been
discussed today. Is that a fair statement? MR. OLLIFF: Yes.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes. I think--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You know, I really -- and I think
Commissioner Coyle and I are in the same track. You're not raising
the millage; you're taking the assessed valuation there, and you're
factoring that in. You're taking a piece out of every revenue stream.
That way you still have flexibility for the future, and that makes me
more comfortable without mortgaging the future because I still have
some opportunity to -- to work other scenarios, which ! don't even
know as I sit here as a commissioner today that other commissioners
in the future have --
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December 18, 2001
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, there's one other thing we
haven't gotten to, and that's those capital improvement projects that
we're just throwing away at the present time with this consideration.
Now, I know that all of us would like to -- to have things like parks
and libraries and museums and healthcare and lights on our streets
and landscaped medians. But I think we're down at crunch time right
now, and we're going to have to make some tough decisions. And we
have to establish the priorities here. And we have to know what is
the top priority because we're not going to be able to have it all. We
can't have ten top priorities, and we can't be spending money on -- on
other projects when we've got top-priority items that are not being
funded. And I would -- I would hope that the board would join me in
-- in establishing roads as our top-priority item. And I think
Commissioner Coletta's concern about Immokalee Road would get
addressed under this -- this funding program, maybe not as fast as
you'd like, but at least you'd get the funding for that. And if that's the
top priority, I would just urge that we -- we be willing to bite the
bullet on some of these other capital improvement programs at least
for a while. It might be nothing more than a delay to find out what
happens with our sales tax revenue and our property tax revenues and
gasoline taxes. And then once we feel more comfortable that things
are going in the direction that we have anticipated, then maybe then
we can go back and revisit some of those. But I would really urge
that we focus on the top-priority items.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I would agree, Commissioner
Coyle. In my judgment those are number-one priority because of a
number of factors. I think we also have the flexibility under the other
pressing needs that keep surfacing to evaluate those in perspective of
the number one priority. And if, if, if, if, if you can do some of those
other things, it makes sense. But this has to be number one. And this
is not only where this board is taking the county, but I think we're
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December 18, 2001
committing Collier County to this -- this priority into the future, and
the rest will have to unfold as available.
COMMISSIONER HENNING:
sorry.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA:
Commissioner Coyle, I -- I'm
At this present time all the
scenario of events include all the other el -- elements we talked about,
including the north -- north regional park and some of the other
events. I mean, everything is still included in this particular mix; is
that correct or no?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: No.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: They're not.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That is part of the pain of those earlier
scenarios. That is part -- partially why staff is looking at Scenario 4
as the most viable. If I'm hearing correctly, there is some consensus
that the board members are in agreement as to that -- that element,
because it does set aside a portion of that capacity to do some of
those other things. And -- and Bill indicated, you know, there are
panhandle communities that are decimated by hurricanes. And if you
have no bonding capacity, in their case, no ad valorem capacity,
you're in a world of trouble.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We're looking at three pieces in there
now, sales, gas, and the increased valuation as a part of your ad
valorem. Those are the three that I'm hearing as surfacing in the mix.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That is a -- that is correct. But as - -
Commissioner Coyle, to address another point you raised relative to
priorities, the jail itself, while it may not be the, quote, top priority, at
some point when you have inmates sleeping all over the floor -- and
part of that is the configuration of the jail, and you can't have felons
with misdemeanants and juveniles with adults and man -- male --
male, female, etc., which adds to the overcrowding in certain pods,
you also have at some point, you know, perhaps the Department of
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Corrections forcing a jail expansion upon you while it might not be in
your top ten in terms of priorities, at some point you may get a dictate
that says you will expand, and that's also part of the mix. It may not
be your top priority, but it -- it may be force fed to you.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, I under -- understand, and
I'm willing to take that risk, I mean, personally. I believe when the
time comes that we have to do something with respect to that. We
might very well be able to find the ways of doing it. And -- and if
jail's the second priority, okay. I don't have a problem with that. I'm
only concerned that we list these things and this item as a top priority,
this item as second priority, this item as third priority, and we make
the funding decisions based on that.
You know how I'd like to deal with the jail capacity already.
And -- and that's not a popular method of solving the -- the problem.
But the point is that we're faced with a severe cash crunch. The
people have told us at the polls they will not give us any more
money, and they expect us to do what we have to do with what we've
got. And -- and -- and they are simply, as far as I'm concerned, not
convinced that we're managing their money as efficiently as we
should be. And it's not this board's fault. These things are
accumulated from a long time ago, and -- and I'm only saying we've
got some gut wrenching decisions to make here, and I strongly urge
us to -- to tighten our belts and proceed in that direction. And if next
year or the year after I'm wrong about these dire predictions of the
economy and everything, then we can revisit all of these things. We
can start putting money into these improvements. All I'm asking for
is we set some top priorities, commit the money to those top
priorities, and then continue to assess our future ability to deal with
these other capital improvement projects. That's all I'm saying.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If I may finish my question
earlier when I started --
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December 18, 2001
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- I -- on the -- what we were
talking about, what we're spending the last year, how much of an
increase was there in the valuation over the previous year? What do
we expect over an average year? What is it in dollars and
percentage?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Last year in -- in total tax -- taxable value
increase, 20 percent.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Twenty percent.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: And that was a anomaly.
MR. OLLIFF: Go to your chart.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay.
MR. OLLIFF: That's the recommended growth curve in your ad
valorem fund. And if you will look, the last couple of years it took
this spike, if you will. I don't think you ought to, for long-range
planning purposes, count on that spike as the trend. But if you look
at the trend line since 1989, that has been a pretty fairly standard-type
trend line, and we've tried to carry that type trend out because always
on the revenue side you want to have a conservative projection. And
I think that is an 8 percent growth line projection.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: May I make a suggestion?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: This is 8 percent here. Here -- these 3
years were 13, 14, and 20 percent. But we were back in single digits
here; that's why we assumed --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We're talking about a
substantial amount of money. How about if we were to commit --
you know, based upon leveraging, of course, the gas tax and the sales
tax maybe to start with, if we were to commit the next three year and
whatever the increases are towards the road funds and that we learned
to live in the budget, what was there for the previous years? I think
that would give us a tremendous jumpstart on the whole thing. How
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would that change the whole scenario of events if we were able to do
that? Just offhand. I know I can't nail you down to it. The next three
years we committed every bit of increase that there would be in ad
valorem, the value of the property increases just to roads?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: A 10 percent increase in value, keeping
the millage rate constant, would -- would yield in next year $10.4
million of itself obviously, and then it would compound itself.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And if we force ourselves to
live within our budget, we're still meeting the needs that we're going
to do out there, and we'll probably still have to bond something.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Oh, without question.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: The other problem that was the
increase in operations, and then you can't keep it level. That's going
to go up every year, so you can't take that entire ten -- $10 million
and use it for that purpose.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You can't reap a revenue stream.
MR. FEDER: No. But I will say that Scenario 4 -- I think it's
very, very important that we're being made clear for some other folks
-- I think this board understands it very well. The one you're
proposing, the full gas tax, a portion of your sales tax, a portion from
increased value assessment. Also, you're looking at a broader portion
of that value assessment that was just discussed to pay back that gas
tax and that sales tax as the stream you committed. But, nonetheless,
you use the increased value assessment as you make your vehicle.
And then you have to commit ad valorem if you can't do it that way,
because if you use those other two, then you're cutting back from
services as they exist today. In effect what you're doing, your ability
to deliver that comes up in the future, the items that we talked about
and Tom warned you I was going to raise.
So in effect you are committing that growth, or as
Commissioner Coletta has said, you're committing in the budget.
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You're not going to increase millage. But you're also not necessarily
going to reduce it because you get this increase in valuation over
time.
MR. MUDD: Can we -- Jim Mudd, for the record -- just one
more -- one more thing, because we're looking at No. 4, just for the
viewing audience, because we've tossed numbers around. And I'm
not too sure on the other end if I was listening to this I'm following it
at all.
Okay. We're talking about $301 million that are needed with all
enhancements. We went through that and we cut -- and we talked
about without enhancement project which is a $44 million cut that
brings us to a requirement for $257 million that's unfunded. We're
talking about in this particular case being able to bond $192 million.
That still leaves us with $65 million to go get from someplace else.
Okay. And that's not talking about bonding or -- it's talking about out
of the general fund someplace.
And when you look at the growth slide, Commissioner Coletta,
up there, until you get to 2007, okay, if you -- if the board says we're
going to commit the 8 percent growth to the ad valorem -- to the
general fund for the next five years, you won't get out of that,
committing that growth, until 2007. And then and only then will you
have some flexibility if the 8 percent growth rate happens.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, that's why I'm an advocate of
only taking a piece of each stream so I don't put myself in that box. I
mean, that's where I am.
MR. OLLIFF: But I think all we're really looking for from the
board is a prioritization basically, if you will, of some -- some
principles. And I think what I'm hearing you say is you want to bond
the full gas tax. You want to preserve as much of the sales tax
capacity as we can, and you want to fund as much of the balance out
of our projected ad valorem growth rate as we can reasonably
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December 18, 2001
swallow, and you need to just give us that kind of direction, and we
will bring you back the specifics, because I'll tell you that there's a lot
of specifics to work out.
For example, Norman's transportation construction plan has us
blipping through the five years. Fiscal year '04 has got a tremendous
lump in it, but that's driven by concurrency and by construction
schedules. We need do some smoothing of that in order to be able to
accommodate the growth of our revenue streams. So there's a lot of
details to be worked out. But as long as those are the principles that
the board wants to send us away from here with, we can bring you
back a plan that will do that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Can I make a motion in that
direction.'?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: May I speak.'?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a second by Commissioner
Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: He didn't get a chance to speak.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I didn't get a chance to speak.
Thank you.
I -- I agree with Commissioner Coyle. I'd rather drive a
Volkswagen to work than a Chevrolet until we get there. I think what
he was asking for, what I understood and heard is making
transportation our number-one projects, our priorities. But I think
everybody needs to realize that every time that we meet, have a
public meeting, somebody is after us for more and more money,
whether it be giving back some of the impact fees or whether it be
healthcare or whatever. So I'm saying that I am going to make the
roads my priority, and I'm sorry to say when those people come up
there, this commissioner is going to have to say no.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And I'll second that motion.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I don't have any problem with
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December 18, 2001
that either, Commissioner Henning, because there are times when the
community out there or a small membership in a part of the
community wants us to go to enormous risk in a land-use issue. And
you end up at Marco Island spending $4 1/2 million for that sucker.
I'm not going there again.
I'm going to tell you that right now, as long as I'm a
commissioner, I will not go at exorbitant risk on any of these
situations that's going to put us in a courtroom where we have a high
probability of losing. So I'm with you. When people start coming
and asking me these things, where does it balance against the
number-one priority?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right. And also meeting the
needs of-- the health, safety, and welfare.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Health, safety, and welfare. Don't
take my statements wrong. Don't take my statements wrong. But be
careful about what you ask for, folks, because you're going to come
to a board that is -- that I'm hearing and sensing today, the toughest
board that I've worked with in the time that I've been here.
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, I think you've got a motion on the
floor, and I also think you've still got some tough decisions ahead of
you, and we probably need to move on.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Is there any further discussion on this
motion to go with the mix to have staff bring us back direction?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
some other tough decisions.
How is magic fingers doing?
All in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed by the same sign.
Motion carries 5-0. Now we've got
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December 18, 2001
THE COURT REPORTER: Running out of paper any minute.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Take five.
(A short break was held.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioners, we are live. We are
live, ladies and gentlemen. So if you're scratching your head and
jumping over a seat, you're on camera.
All right. We need to proceed with the next -- next item.
MR. OLLIFF: The next item I -- I am going to be looking to the
commission for, frankly, is to go back, and Mr. Mudd is working his
way back to a particular slide that shows the four projects that are
specifically affected by some actions today, and I'm going to be
remiss if I don't tell the board -- in fact, I need to make a
recommendation to the board that given the circumstances, given the
financial options that -- that we need to consider, you have one of
those four projects, which is the court-related officers' building.
That's the courthouse annex project that you have looked at for a
couple of budget sessions. That is the on-campus building
improvement and parking garage. The bond issue that you recently
issued direction to us to go out to the market with includes $2 million
of design money for that project.
My recommendation to you would be that, given the current
circumstances, we ought to give some direction to have that $2
million of design money pulled out of that bond issue and at a bare
minimum, delay decision on that project for -- for a year or a period
of time. I just don't see a physical way of you getting there from
here, and it certainly doesn't make sense for us to do a design and
then not build the building because the design ages, and then you're
going to end up having to do a bunch of redesign and costs associated
with that. So, Mr. Chairman, that's my recommendation on that one
particular project.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is there any other dedicated
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December 18, 2001
money to that project besides 2 million?
MR. OLLIFF: Not that I'm aware of, but I'll go back and look
through the budget and ensure that there isn't and certainly ensure
that if there is that before we spend it we bring it back to you for a
decision.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: What will that do to our responsibility
to eventually do that?
MR. OLLIFF: Well, I think the building was put into your
master space plans with some obvious needs on the part of the --
primarily the clerk of courts, the state attorney, the public defender,
and those other court-related services. Worst case, we don't build
that for a number of years. The best case is I think we delay it for
some period of time, and you give us some direction when we -- in
the interim to go back and relook at not only that particular project
but the master plan and see what we can tweak, what we can squeeze
into the existing buildings, and what we can stretch in terms of the
campus building plan.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I look for tweaking and
squeezing and do that in coordination with the court so that we find
out the best possible way we can deal with it and still at the same
time save a couple million dollars.
MR. OLLIFF: But I will tell you that I have already had this
conversation with Mr. Brock, who is one of the primary occupants of
the building. So he is not surprised if-- if the board makes the
decision to, at -- at best, delay this project. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I look for his input and advice
on how we can raise that money to put that project back on track.
MR. OLLIFF: Yeah, absolutely.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. That's -- that's one.
MR. OLLIFF: I'd probably like to get a motion on that, Mr.
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December 18, 2001
Chairman, because it is in a previous board motion and part of a bond
issue scheduled to go out to the market at the beginning of the
calendar year.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I make that motion. I'd like to
make a motion that we drop the courts/constitutional officer building
design work for $2 million from this bonding option.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll second that motion.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. I have a motion by
Commissioner Fiala. I have a second by Commissioner Henning.
Any further discussion? (No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The motion carries 5-0.
MR. FEDER: Mr. Chairman, If I can go back to the agenda and
move forward, first of all, I want to thank you for your indulgence so
far today. I know this has been -- been rather difficult.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's wearing thin, Norm.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I will say this, Norman: We have to
thank you.
MR. FEDER: Okay.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We have to thank you for all the hard
work.
MR. FEDER: A lot of staff here is also in support of it.
What I will tell you, though, as I heard, and -- and we're going to
thank you for taking the first of the big hurdles, and that is
committing to that funding of that $257 million shortfall, as we
understand it, with the gas tax, a portion of the sales tax, and a
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December 18, 2001
portion of our increased valuation or -- or property tax, if that
unfortunately doesn't materialize, but it has been, and we feel very
safe in that figure.
The next order of business, though, beyond that is to evaluate,
first of all, three facilities that unfortunately didn't get attended to in
that action you just took. And ! have a map coming around that
identifies effectively three segments where our current process or
options that we have in our Land Development Code as it exists
today basically don't give us the tool and the quiver, if you will, to
effectively respond. The reason I say that is the two that we had was
either lower the level of service, and for these three facilities,
Vanderbilt Beach Road west of U.S. 41, U.S. 41 -- and Jim is
pointing them out over here -- U.S. 41 between Pine Ridge and
Golden Gate Parkway, and then Davis Boulevard, basically, between
the new alignment but from Radio Road, Davis over to 951 or Collier
Boulevard.
For those three segments -- and I'll go through them individually
-- the action you just took and the very hard action to fund an
additional 257 million didn't resolve that. We can't lower the level of
service. Those are the two items that we had. The other is to create a
moratorium. Now, that could be your decision here today.
What we're going to advocate to you, though, is a little different
approach because if you declare a moratorium, the only thing you do
is postpone answering the question. And we feel we can help you
answer the question, begin it today and -- and resolve it in the next
month or so as we update the Land Development Code and the
growth management plan in a much more positive fashion. If you
declare a moratorium, the only thing you've done is delay, face the
legal challenge and the dollar expense, and you still have to answer
as I said. Also, it puts the onus on the county. You have to answer --
solve the problem. Well, in this case you just took a very big step to
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solving problems, but these problems can't be solved with that big
step of $257 million. You can't lower the service anymore.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: What can we do?
MR. FEDER: So what we're going to recommend is this: As a
state standard has constrained and backlogged, that, first of all, we
modify the Land Development Code to encode those definitions
within our quiver of options, that we define specifically in that
process what is the area to be impacted, not use some general thing
that's 3 -, 2 -, or 1-mile arbitrary, but, rather, come into what is the
area significantly impacted. For instance -- and this is something to
be looked at, not necessarily decided today, but as you look at
Vanderbilt Beach Road west of U.S. 41, you may also be looking at
Gulfshore Drive on up to Bluebill, because that section in there up to
Vanderbilt is essentially one section that is pretty well self-contained.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And that's already going to come to
the LDC cycle now to be set up as a study area which, in effect, does
put in a moratorium until we study and figure out what we will allow
or not allow for redevelopment primarily in that area.
MR. FEDER: Exactly. And so that may be your answer under
that constrained is to go into more detailed analysis and to find
exactly what you want to do and extend that area for the full real
travel area, which is Gulfshore Drive as well as Vanderbilt Beach
Road at least west of U.S. 41.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Because do you have a study going
on, Vanderbilt running north and south?
MR. FEDER: Yeah. And there we don't have the constraints.
It's a different type of study as you do have here. And the community
desired not to look to expand and the physical constraints you have,
even if you considered expansion.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Now, would you do this for all of
them instead of taking it road by road?
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December 18, 2001
MR. FEDER: Well, no. The reason I'm taking it road by road,
that is a constrained facility. Another constrained that's in there is
U.S. 41, as I mentioned, between Pine Ridge and Golden Gate
Parkway. There we are -- work with the City of Naples. We need to
evaluate what our options are there. And the state standard generally
of constrained is 5 percent growth over time. So it does allow for
some level of continued growth, but then it also allows for some level
of flexibility, as we're going to recommend that you apply it to maybe
tie, let's say, Goodlette-Frank Road and -- and 41 together in the
analysis as we look at development in this area and an opportunity, if
there are further connections between the two, to capitalize on
capacity and coordinate the process, that we do that.
Again, I think we'd recommend, first of all, that we establish the
county give us direction to do so as part of your Land Development
Code update, that we work with the City of Naples, in particular, on
41. Half of the side of the road is city; half is county. And then we
evaluate specifically how we can control. But the key point is while
we use the basic standard concept of control, not over 5 percent
growth, that we give ourselves some flexibility in the area that we
establish and in the controls that we establish to be specific to the
facility, its function, its purpose and prospect.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, with an area of impact or
significant impact, I guess, is the term that I've always heard --
MR. FEDER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- again, if we could wrap all those
together and you give us specific language which we could control
that through the LDC cycle.
MR. FEDER: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm ready to say yes, sir; let's do it.
MR. FEDER: And please understand, we are not saying in your
prior LDC you showed Vanderbilt Beach Road as constrained, but
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December 18, 2001
we didn't have any control, any plan for how we're going to respond
to growth. Growth has continued. We just called it constrained and
walked away. We're not recommending that by any stretch of the
imagination.
The other thing I'm pointing out to you is you have another
category backlog, that section of Davis Boulevard that ! mentioned to
you, from Radio over to Collier Boulevard. Probably -- actually in
that section State Road 951 right there by the interstate. There the
state has both design and half of the right-of-way in their program.
That half of the right-of-way is out in 2007. So 2008, if they put the
other half of the right-of-way, 2009 under the best-of-case scenario
they have construction, that would be 2009 construction, which is
some period of time past 2004.
What you had included in that two hundred fifty-seven -- two
hundred fifty-nine million improvements item was the ability to
advance with reimbursement that state schedule. So establish a
backlog, establish metered growth over time, and look at the ability
to advance that state process into about 2007. So the period from
2004 to 2007, which actually comes on line about 2005 -- it's in that
first three years -- is covered, is a period of time up to 2005 that we
have to control and meter growth anticipating that improvement will
come on line, not use up all of its capacity until the day it's open -- it's
not functional -- but to establish the ability for growth to continue
while we work with the state to advance and get that improvement
funded.
So there you have the opportunity to make an improvement.
You just can't make it within three years. You acknowledge it; you
establish a pattern of growth allowable given how far out it will be
for that project. In this case the state one -- we're even committing
dollars to advance for reimbursement.
So that's what we're recommending to you in broad terms.
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Dawn's going to cover that over a little bit more in the policy issues
to the Land Development Code and other policy issues, because as I
said at the outset -- and I think this is very, very important -- as
important and as difficult as what you've already done in the
discussions today, the more important is that we change our policies
and processes so we don't get here again. And with that said, I'm
going to let Dawn jump in.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'd like to just make one comment.
With reference to U.S. 41 in your evaluation of that area, I know that
the City of Naples is concerned about compatible zoning laws or
development laws in that area, one side being the city with one
standard, the other side being the county with perhaps a different
standard. Would -- would the board be supportive of trying to assure
that we get some kind of consistent standard in that area?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I -- I would --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: At least look at it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Coyle, I agree with
that. I believe at one time we spent a lot -- we had meetings and tried
to get that to happen, and it ended up in a no-agreement situation.
MR. FEDER: Commissioner, what I will -- what I will tell you,
I spoke to George Archibald before the discussions today. George
concurs with the need for improvement in that section of 41. They do
have a standard of constrain. They don't have a specific standard for
what growth or controls are happening. He agreed that that would be
a very healthy and good discussion on 41, and we would obviously
get -- in any direction from you, but it would be our intent as well by
-- look at that and bring it back to you in any recommendation we
make for 41.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, Mark Morton is in the audience
this morning. I think, Mark, you were part of that study process
sometime back. Maybe I got the wrong -- he didn't have anything to
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do with it. He's denying it.
Okay. Somebody came to me within the last couple of years. I
personally would advocate a joint group working on that so that we
get that control of both sides because you know we've got one
particular situation that is in Commissioner Coyle's district that I
don't know where it is, but maybe the financial frontage, put that one
out of business for a while. But that could -- that's going to rear its
ugly head.
MR. FEDER: We need to review every development but
particularly in these areas and the coordination. And obviously we'll
entertain any direction from the board but it would be --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Do we have three nods?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes.
MR. FEDER: ! think we've got direction.
MR. OLLIFF: While it's not a requirement, too, there is actually
a -- as Stan refers to the often-overlooked intergovernmental
coordination element of the comprehensive plan that actually has
language that's been approved by both cities and the county that
indicates that if there are some development restriction-type plans put
in place, that governments will cooperate with each other and try to
develop those similar-type standards. So I think all of the
governments that recognize that should the situation occur, that we
will try to work to development-consistent standards.
MS. WOLFE: Good afternoon. Dawn Wolfe, transportation
planning department director.
As we all discussed, we've gotten over a long period of time into
the situation we are, and we're working our way out of that backlog.
But part of what I've provided to you is a written synopsis of the
opportunities we have within the current Land Development Code
under the adequate public facilities section to make change and how
we actually apply it as well as introduce other components to that
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December 18, 2001
section that will enable us to continue moving forward, although
perhaps under more of a metered situation but, perhaps, keep this
county out of any type of prospect of issuing those words of
moratorium.
One of the things that we've been talking about for more than a
year now is the need to deal with concurrency on more than just a
once-a-year basis of reviewing and saying, yes, we have all the
capacity and everyone who comes to the door asking for a building
permit throughout the year we just sign off on of it regardless of what
kind of impacts or cumulative impacts they may have on our road
system.
The Land Development Code currently refers to two separate
programs, that of monitoring and management, which we believe the
AUIR is that tool to help us establish and maintain our five-year
capital improvement element. The other component of that is
actually the regulatory side of it. We see that as being the actual
checkbook side of it. It has not been handled in that way. The AUIR
has been handling both management and monitoring, as well as that
regulatory on that annual basis. What we will be proposing and
bringing forward to you in January will be a series of amendments to
that section that will put in place not only definitions for constrained
and backlogged facilities but as well as how do we apply appropriate
rules to development or redevelopment which may occur adjacent to
or near those corridors of deficiencies or potential deficiency.
The areas of significant influence, as they're described today in
the Land Development Code, are that of a radius of influence from
either end of a deficient segment. These may not necessarily be
sufficient, or they may be overbearing in their intensity from a 1- to a
3-mile radius of impact.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Let me just make sure I understood
what you just said. So, in other words, instead of just taking each
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development, in particular, we're going to take a radius. So, like, for
instance, with park lands and Olde Cypress and Mira -- Mirasol
which would --
MS. WOLFE: No, no.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- have -- have any impact at all?
MS. WOLFE: No. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying
is, under the current the Land Development Code criteria, if we have
a deficient or a potentially deficient road for which we cannot
address, either by widening it or lowering its level of service, we're
supposed to identify an area of significant influence by which no
development may be permitted. And it's just a -- a radius area of
anywhere from 1 to 3 miles around that segment of deficiency, and
that holds on for a one-year time period of regardless of what level of
development that may be, or perhaps there's a development that is
just outside the boundaries of those areas that may be a substantial
magnitude but would have a significant impact on that deficient
segment but because of it not falling within the confines of the area
of significant influence would be required to be permitted.
What we're going to be recommending is a concurrency
management system that, as developments come forward, that more
so than we would look at under the current traffic impact statements
under a rezoning, as we get more to a site development plan stage
that we look at their impacts within a specified area of influence.
Right now we have a criteria under the comprehensive plan that
says we look for those impacts within a 5 percent. We're going to be
proposing that that be a stagger based on the level of development
proposed, anywhere from a 1 up to a 5. Five is the criteria for
developments of regional impact. We would not suggest that
something which is only a 30,000-square-foot retail business apply a
5 percent to it but, rather, we'd be closer to a 1 percent in defining
how far out their impacts are defined and how far we look.
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December 18, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So you really got to bring this forward
to us in the next LDC cycle and you're just looking today -- MR. FEDER: Next month.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- for the board direction in order to
pursue that?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm nodding my head.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Me too.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I don't have any problem with that.
MS. WOLFE: And, like I said, we're going to see some massive
changes to how we actually apply -- what the AUIR means, that's
basically going to be when you get your, you know, bank statements
in the mail and you go back and check and make sure those checks
that have come through, that you check those off, that you may still
have some of those that are outstanding. That's going to be our
balance statement. But as we write checks during the year, gift
certificates for adequate public facilities, site development plans, that
we write things in the checkbook, and at the end of the year we check
them off to make sure we still have enough room to actually allow
that development to continue. That could be --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I've been ready for a while.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Why did it take so long to get
to this point?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: It takes a long time to get to where
you want to be. So as far as this board is -- I'm getting all the nods
just to go forward.
MR. FEDER: And we appreciate that. That was the key for
these three. You addressed really the AUIR today. But we also
wanted, with your indulgence -- I know it's very late, and some folks'
stomachs are grumbling -- to hit on a few other policies, just so you
know you'll be seeing over the next month or so. And, again,
particularly for the listening audience, this is really the most
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important part of it: How do we not replicate where we got to and
where you had to work so hard to address today.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Can we kind of tick those off--
MR. FEDER: Yes. Give you an idea what they are.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- for listening America?
MS. WOLFE: Certain specific criterias, once again, what is
proposed is redefining what is an AUIR and what would be the
regulatory tool by which we actually approve and issue our
certificates. What we currently have in process that you'll be seeing
on Wednesday is some elimination of access criteria from the Land
Development Code under activity centers where we've kind of boxed
ourselves in a comer telling people that if you come in here, two
major arterials, these are the access points you'll have. Those are all
-- a lot of those are dated. We've updated our access management
policy. We are making references to the outside policies; we can
change over time, and we're eliminating the specifics within the Land
Development Code, and we're referring them to the technical
documents where they should be at.
In interconnectivity and collector roadways, we're coming
forward with amendments to the LDC that you'll also see this week
requesting or requiring interconnection between developments
through the PUD process. Rather than encouraging, we're going to
be a little bit more forceful and are looking for the board to approve a
hammer for -- by which staff can bring forward applications to you
for considerations that mandate it and don't just encourage it.
We will also continue updating that as we move forward with
the secondary road system or collector road system development,
although we have somewhat eliminated a level of funding to that.
We need to put in place a plan that as development comes forward,
we can preserve or encourage connectivity to those developments
through this collector roadway system, and at the same time we're
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bringing that forward, we also will be getting a price tag as to what
will it cost and can address the financial implications in the future.
Right now we don't have that specific dollar amount, but staff, with
consultant support, are working toward that end and will be bringing
that forward in the upcoming year.
Other things in process is to eliminate vesting of access under
old PUDs, that we don't have the level of specificity at the zoning
stage to say you will have absolute full median openings and
signalized intersections when we don't know exactly what is going in.
There is some discussion over that. We are asking that there not
be a presumption, other than the fact that they have a right to access
to the public roadway system but not until such time as a site plan
comes forward do we make the specific determination, and it will be
consistent with our policies in place at the time. That's going to be
coming forward this week.
Also in process for the comprehensive plan is the removal of the
level of service tables from the comprehensive plan. Those have
been tying our hands. I've had to come before you on many
occasions. And regardless of what our professional opinion may be
in regards to level of service, I've had to advise you that you are
required to find projects consistent because of old dated tables.
We're removing those, letting them be a technical document that can
stand alone, be updated as necessary based on changing conditions
and changing technical criteria.
We've already made our initial changes in regards to access
management. We've updated our policy, including Livingston Road,
as well as Collier Boulevard as controlled access facilities to preserve
their capacity. We've also come forward with a functional
classification update to our entire roadway system. We're tying that
into the development of our collector road system because right now
we have roads on our system we define as collector, such as Pine
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December 18,2001
Ridge and Immokalee Road, which we all well know are arterials
under their actual function. We want to bring forward to you a full
system that includes everything from minor collectors all the way up
to our principal arterials and interstate plans. That's something that
we'll be seeing after we bring forward a collector secondary road
system plan to you.
We've already identified to you that we would like to bring
forward the definitions as prepared by the Florida Department of
Transportation for local planning purposes. The Florida Department
of Transportation does not regulate land development. That is the
obligation of local jurisdictions and specifically us here in Collier
County. They have prepared for us a means by which we can define
a constrained backlogged facility, and we need to take advantage of
the criteria that they have established and use state wide.
We have also identified for you, we will be coming back with
LDC changes that allow us to actually have a specific checkbook
concurrency management system that we will be recommending be
maintained and overseen by the transportation division and that
signoffs for adequate public facilities will be coming through
transportation and not specifically just at the time someone pulls a
building permit.
We're talking to you also about redefining what the areas of
significant influence is. Arbitrary circles of influence aren't
necessarily appropriate. We need to look at them on a project-by-
project and segment-by-segment basis, and introduction of a
concurrency management system will allow us to do that.
Timing and issuance of certificates of adequate public facility or
other issues we'll be bringing forward. Right now they may defer
them until the time that they pull the building permit. We're going to
be recommending that that deferral no longer be in place but that we -
- at the time the site development plan be issuing those certificates of
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December 18, 2001
adequate public facility, it becomes an onus upon the county that if
someone moves forward to the point of, "Well, I'll just wait until my
building permit is pulled."
And all of a sudden under the system, "We don't have enough
capacity for you."
"Well, I've spent all this money on zoning, the site development
plan. I've done my site preparation. Well, now I pull my building
permit, and I can't get an adequate public facilities." That's a little
late in the game to be telling someone now. We believe -- and this is
appropriate and has been applied throughout other counties and
jurisdictions in the State of Florida. It is appropriate to do it at the
time of site development plan.
I have provided for you a synopsis that generally outlines all of
these conditions for your reading pleasure. Copies are available up
here.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: In our spare time.
MS. WOLFE: In your spare time to read over that and in my
spare time to prepare the details and work with staff both in
transportation and development services to bring those forward to
you in a timely manner.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So what you need from us is staff
direction.
MR. FEDER: We got what we needed, and I very much
appreciate your indulgence. I want to thank Dawn Scott, who is new
to my staff, and others you know and the like that are here.
The last thing I will raise to you, besides the decisions you've
already made, is also hopefully nods of confirmation. You do want
us -- particularly on those yellows we identified on the map -- you
want us to go back and recapture some of that. Obviously, we will
bring those incrementally to you. But please understand that those
will be hard choices, and we will look for your support as it's
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December 18, 2001
appropriate at that time.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Appreciate that.
Stan, we have some other business to do?
MR. LITSINGER: We have just to formally complete this
AUIR process. I need to axe -- ask you to take three separate actions,
based on what you've heard here today, if Norman -- MR. FEDER: We thank you.
MR. LITSINGER: What we would ask the board to do, in order
to complete the annual update and inventory report process, is three
things: We would ask you to accept and approve the attached
documents that you have received on the 30th of November and 12th
-- 18th of December as your 2001 annual update inventory report.
You've given staff direction by separate motion and vote, all of
Category A and B facilities that has been very specific relative to
funding and projects. You have given staff recommendation to
projects, revenue sources for inclusion in the FY '02 annual CIE
update amendment which will be coming back to you in the next
couple of months. And you have included, as I understood it, $257
million in general fund revenues, as they will be defined in the capital
improvement element, as identified in scenario or option 4, as was
presented to you by the budget director, which, in my assessment,
does create a financially feasible plan.
Further, we would ask, finally, that you find upon analysis and
review of the actions taken, based on this 2001 AUIR that adequate --
adequate Category A public facilities will be available as defined by
the Collier County concurrency management system as implemented
by Division 3.15 of the Land Development Code is to support --
develop order issuance subject to the provisions of Division 3.15 of
the Land Development Code as it may be amended subsequent to
direction received on November the 30th and on 12/18, as you have
recently heard, and will be coming back to in the form of LDC
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amendments.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I so move.
MR. LITSINGER: That's a mouthful. I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I so move.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Did you second?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I did.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm sorry. I didn't hear. I move -- I
moved the motion by Stan Smykowski (sic) on the AUI (sic) report, a
second by Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Let's say Stan Litsinger.
MR. LITSINGER: Stan Litsinger.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
MR. LITSINGER: Stan.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
Well, I don't know.
You know, I got too many names.
Stan Litsinger. And I apologize.
MR. LITSINGER: That's okay.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And I have a second by Commissioner
Fiala. Any discussion? (No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The motion carries 5-0. Stan, thank
you for a wonderful job. You're a real pro. You've been here a long
time and had to go through a lot of frustration.
Commissioner Coletta asks why does it take so long. Number
one, you got a county manager who is looking over his shoulder
worrying about his job. We went out and recruited the top
administrators. We took -- Norman Feder came in here and in 16
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December 18, 2001
months built a division. And he brought in people like Dawn Wolfe
and others, and that's why you've got what you've got today. And if
you don't have the professional management in place, the board will
never get there. And what they ask from a board is what we did
today; set policy, give direction. I compliment this board. I thank
you. I wish everybody a merry Christmas and a happy new year.
Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Is there any correspondence at this
workshop or meeting?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is there any public input?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: There can be.
Is there anybody signed up? Does anybody want to --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Everybody looks happy.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- lay any more wisdom on us? No.
They all want to go have Christmas lunch.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Just a --just a brief comment.
We've received a memorandum from staff indicating that we were
not given all of the information that we should have had concerning
the La Quinta development in Golden Gate city.
At -- at the time we were debating that, Commissioner Henning
raised the issue about the possibility of changing that multifamily
facility to a single-family facility. I argued that the penalty would be
too great to have to remodel the whole house. I nigh -- I now find out
that the house really wasn't finished inside. And so out of courtesy to
Commissioner Henning as one of the people who voted to approve it,
I would be happy to -- to bring it or vote to bring it back towards --
for reconsideration if you wanted to do that. I don't know that it will
change the vote, but I think it's important that -- that -- that
Commissioner Henning have the opportunity to consider that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: As a commissioner voting in favor of
that, you certainly have a right to bring it in front of the board for
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reconsideration.
MR. MUDD: Let me help just a little bit. I think you're looking
for John.
MR. OLLIFF: No. Actually, I was looking for an attorney's
interpretation of the time frame on the reconsideration ordinance.
And we'll double-check that and make sure that we're within -- I
think the ordinance calls for a 30-day motion in order to reconsider.
We will assume that -- that we are at this point unless we go
back and look at the schedule and the time frame and find out that
we're not, in which case we'll -- we'll look to bring that to your
attention at the next regular meeting that we have and provide
whatever options the board has in that regard, and we'll make sure
that, in any case, we get you the full information on that item.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I -- I just want to leave that
to Commissioner Henning, if he thinks that would be useless to do
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I can't really -- I think
you need a second on that, and I voted against it. But --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA:
the courtesy you deserve.
COMMISSIONER HENNING:
I'll give you the second on it,
I appreciate it. I think it -- you
know, it could be lost at this point, but they're going to take a look at
it.
MR. OLLIFF: Well, keep -- keep in mind that the developer
was continuing at his own risk up until the point when he came in
front of the board, and there were certain risks assumed on his part
along the way.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. All in favor of bringing it
back for discussion for reconsider, signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
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December 18, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 5-0. I think it carried
4-0 because he voted against it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: At any rate, we're going to bring it
back. Thank you, Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I just think we should do it fairly.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I agree. You're ahead of me in the
mail. Anything else in front of this board before we adjourn for the
holidays?
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, I just want to take an opportunity
to thank Norman and Dawn and the entire staff and budget office and
growth management. I can't begin to tell you how many hours they
put into getting here today. None of these decisions or options were
easy. And I appreciate you-all making the tough decisions. But do
keep in mind that when the Land Development Code hearings come
back with a lot of these specific detail issues that Dawn ran you
through, they're not nearly going to be as easy as is Dawn's summary
of them, and you will end up with a lot of discussion about each and
every one of those issues.
But I do believe they are issues that at one time or another this
board has talked about, wished they could see some -- some
opportunity to -- to look at the impacts of those kinds of changes to
your Land Development Code. And you need to keep in mind that
you changed your Land Development Code process so that you can
make amendments at any time you wish to, so you're not stuck to an
amendment cycle anymore. That's why we're probably going to bring
you not only the current Land Development Codes that are in process
but going to bring you all of these things that Dawn brought up today
at your second Land Development Code hearing.
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December 18, 2001
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Not tomorrow night?
MR. OLLIFF: No, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: No, no, no. Tomorrow night, though,
is LDC, 5:05, the first of two meetings. Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Commissioner Carter, I'll tell
you, this has been the most productive half an hour (sic) I've seen
since I joined the commission. I am just totally amazed that we got
to this point in one big jump. I'd like to see if we direct you to write a
letter of commendation to the -- to Norm Feders and Dawn Wolfe
and all the people there and that had a part in bringing this around.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: My pleasure to do that. And what I
would like is I'll draft the letter. You-all can make comments on it,
but I'd like every commissioner to sign it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I love that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. We're standing adjourned.
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 1:24 p.m.
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December 18, 2001
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTR~0k ~,
JAMEg~D. CARTER, CHAIRMAN
:--'~.D~tG~.',T~E. BROCK, CLERK
' .. ~r . t' ..' .,.".' 7' ~ ' '
"TheSe minutes approved by the Board on
presented
or as corrected
///~ ,as
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT
REPORTING, INC., BY BARBARA A. DONOVAN, RMR, CRR
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