Minutes 09/25/1991 R Parks & Recreation
Advisory Board
( PARAB )
Minutes
September 25 , 1991
REVISED MINUTES
PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD
Golden Gate Community Park, Administrative Office
NAPLES, FLORIDA
1991
SEPTEMBER 25, 1990
PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman
Mr. Gil Mueller, Vice Chairman
Ms. Cherryle Thomas (Arrived at 2:30 p.m.)
Ms. Geneva Till
Mr. William Clendenon
ALSO PRESENT: Mr. Murdo Smith, Acting Department Director
Ms. Mary Ellen Donner, Recreation Superintendent
Mr. Gary Franco, Parks Superintendent
I. CALL TO ORDER:
The meeting was called to order at 2:05 p.m.
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG:
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Mr. Gil Mueller asked if the $30.00 facility usage fee was the same
amount for both indoor and outdoor facility usage. Ms. Mary Ellen Donner
replied that it is. Approval of the August 28, 1991 Minutes as
presented. Motioned by Mr. William Clendenon, seconded by Ms. Geneva
Till, passed 4-0.
IV. REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION:
Chairman Kobza requested that PARAB put Productivity Report Discussion
Scheduling and Vanderbilt Beach Turnaround on the agenda for discussion.
Mr. William Clendenon requested that PARAB add the subject of Tigertail
Beach Clean-up to the agenda. Mr. Gil Mueller requested to discuss
Budget issues.
V. NEW BUSINESS/PRESENTATIONS:
A. REGISTRY PRESENTATION
A letter was received from Attorney McMackin, representing the Registry
Hotel Resort, requesting to present their request for providing banquet
services after park hours to PARAB. Mr. Kobza has received 5 letters
(provided for record) in support of the Registry's request.
MR. MCMACKIN: The Registry Resort's ownership is comprised of 426 condo
owners, each owning a room or rooms. Mr. Popper is the General Manager,
and we are going to present a proposal that we believe will be beneficial
to both the community and the hotel.
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MR. KOBZA: What we have is a building that is owned by many owners and
they enter into a management contract to run the hotel. The owners
purchase a room instead of stock, and it is a non-residential condo
managed by the Registry Resort. Mr. McMackin represents the hotel owners
and Mr. Popper represents the Registry Hotel Corporation.
MR. POPPER: I would like to share some thoughts with you; I have been in
Naples 2 1/2 years, live in Pelican Bay, and enjoy the area. The hotel
has operated the beach concession since 1988 and the present contract
expires March 31, 1993 . (Picture shown of Clam Pass Beach area) .
OBLIGATIONS OF REGISTRY: Hire the tram operators - have 6 - and pay one
half of their salaries. 200,014 people visited the beach last year, 62%
were local residents and the remaining were Registry guests. We take
care of the cleanliness of the area where snacks are served, and the
restrooms. Two people work there from sunrise to sunset. They handle
all the equipment rentals - boats, canoes - maintain the park grounds and
parking area and treat it as if it were part of the Registry. This is of
benefit to the County as we pay 20% of the gross revenue to the County -
$47,241 last year. We provide an emergency communication link from the
beach to the Resort if there is a problem. We stand responsible for what
is used there. A study of 650 beaches in the US showed Clam Pass as
number 11 - this study included beaches in Hawaii and in Florida, and was
based on the water, temperature, and cleanliness. In the 3/15/88
Agreement between the AUO and the County, $75,000 was escrowed for
development of utilities to Clam Pass Beach - water, electricity and
telephone. The County put up a like amount of money, the AUO put up
another $75,000 for expansion of the beach facilities. The $150,000 in
escrow held by the County is now worth approximately $200,000. The
status of the utilities - hopefully work will start in November. The
utilities will run along the beach through an easement from Naples Cay
and by February or March next year, we will have utilities out there.
The other half of the arrangement is to enlarge the facilities. (Showed
concept) We wish to build a deck, storage area, convert the existing
storage area into a kitchen, enlarge the restrooms and we will have
utilities hooked up to that and will provide lunches. (Showed a sample
menu without prices as the prices need to be negotiated with the County.)
This will enlarge the seating area - Easter sunrise services are now held
on the beach, weddings and local functions could take place and the
Resort could hold banquets. Basically the hotel is a land locked hotel
with no golf facilities or beach facilities of their own. Through a
concession agreement we have been able to use the beach, but the hotel
has lost approximately $117,000 due to the inability to hold banquets,
etc. on the beach front. We cannot compete with the Ritz, Naples Beach
Club, or Marco area hotels that have these beachside facilities. We have
lost probably 3 to 5 million dollars due to this fact. People pay $70 to
80,000 for a 4 or 5 day event, $60 to 80,000 for a banquet. We are able
to provide employment for 750 in staff, 40% are entry level positions.
These people would be out of work if this work was not available. By
being in a non-competitive position we have lost, but the County has also
lost revenue over a period of years, by not being able to do something on
the beach. We are looking for (1) approval and endorsement for a 10 year
extension of our concession agreement, through the year 2005, for which
we have offered to pay $100,000 to the County. It is our life line, we
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can plan ahead - bookings are made 5-7 years ahead. (2) Expand the deck
to seat 200 people and we would have the ability to serve food out there.
(3) We ask for permission on an event by event basis to serve alcohol in
conjunction with food. We would be judged on how well we had done the
last time. We would get permission for one event only at a time. We
would be prepared to have security out there and make certain that things
were clean, and treat it the same way as if the event were being held in
the hotel, and the County would receive 20% of gross revenue. We are
looking for a ten year extension, to enlarge the deck and facilities, and
for permission on a case by case event to serve alcohol on the deck. The
Registry had a rocky start with the public. Since I have been here I
have tried to become part of the community, work with the community, and
have a good relationship with the neighbors. We want to be good
neighbors. I feel if we were able to do what we would like to do it
would be a great source of enjoyment for anyone using Clam Pass Beach -
we have overflow parking at the Registry, would be able to serve lunch,
would be able to have community events, and would be able to compete with
other hotels. It is important from a financial point of view, we have
750 employees, and in my opinion it is a win, win situation. The County
would get a percentage, we would build and the County would own it, we
would maintain it. We are asking for endorsement.
DISCUSSION
MRS. TILL: If given permission for alcohol use to one area, does that
affect all other areas in the County? Will it open it up for all other
areas?
MR. POPPER: Right now in Golden Gate there is a entity which can serve
the community on a case by case basis. No other area in a County park
has this type of facility. We could offer security and control that
area. There are a number of cases where this type of arrangement has
taken place - it is not unique in origin. Squaw Peak, Grand Canyon
} National Lodge, and other properties in California and Hawaii that have
similar arrangements with hotels were able to use County facilities for
this. Based on this, and an exception in Golden Gate, and I would be
held responsible.
MRS. TILL: How many times?
MR. POPPER: I could see it mostly in season or during convention season.
Once or twice a week after that.
MRS. TILL: What is 20% revenue - it includes what?
MR. POPPER: Anything I sell out there - food, suntan oil, rentals, etc.
MR. KOBZA: I anticipated legal questions would be asked and asked the
County Attorney's office to have a representative here. Mr. Cronin is
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present to answer any questions we may have. Would there be a legal
reason why we could or could not allow a concession of this kind at Clam
Pass as related to other parks. Are we legally locked in to allowing
other applicants at other parks.
MR. CRONIN: You may amend the Ordinance to allow that activity to take
place at this location. There would be no precedent setting in other
parks or allowing it on a wide spread basis.
MR. KOBZA: This platform will be used for a day to day and special
events.
MR. POPPER: Banquets are usually 7-9 p.m. and would not interfere with
normal beach activities. It would be a separate operation.
MR. KOBZA: Some occasions you mentioned may not start after closing,
wedding receptions, community functions, these people would not be
permitted to close the park down?
MR. POPPER: No, nothing to impair visitors from using Clam Pass Park.
It would be strictly an extra event to be held by the hotel when the park
is closed. The Registry would be the caterer for all events.
MR. KOBZA: The 10 year extension, why?
MR. POPPER: We book business in advance, and have repeat business. It
is important to us. We would feel better knowing we have the Agreement
for ten years. We are in an unenviable position and have nothing to
bargain with. We have done a good job, but the County has all the cards.
I am standing here and say whatever you want, in reason, we will do it.
We are looking for advice from you. The Board of County Commissioners
will be looking for your recommendations. If ten years is too long, let
us discuss it. I want to be reasonable and want you to understand my
point of view. I need to plan ahead.
MRS. THOMAS: Are the same arrangements in existence in Florida?
MR. POPPER: I do not know - it is existing here in our Golden Gate area.
MR. MUELLER: Is your intention to take down the existing structure and
build a new one?
MR. POPPER: All we are talking about is the addition of the deck,
converting this building to a kitchen, storage building and expansion of
the men and ladies restrooms.
MR. MUELLER: Who is going to pay?
MR. MCMACKIN: The owners of the hotel from the money in escrow - there
really is no agreement as to what we would build - whatever would have
the least impact on natural resources. We have $75,000 of that amount
and it would be our responsibility to pay for it and it would then be
County property.
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MR. MUELLER: Mr. Cronin, my primary concern is that a precedent would be
established for use of alcoholic beverages on County property. What if
it materializes, went on for a year, and everything went well. Some
organization on Marco Island said they wanted to use Frank Mackie and
serve cocktails, or someone wanted something on the beach during spring
break and serve cocktails. Would the County then be put in a safe legal
position to turn it down?
MR. CRONIN: Yes. The ordinance would have to be amended to be allowed
in specific places.
MR. MUELLER: It could be allowed in some places and not in other of
similar types?
MR. CRONIN: It would depend how the facilities were defined.
MR. MUELLER: I am talking about serving alcohol at beach A and 5 miles
down the road not serving alcoholic beverages at beach B.
MR. CRONIN: In my opinion you can safely do that if you allow Golden
Gate to do that now. I do not have that ordinance with me, but would be
willing to get it for you.
MR. MUELLER: One question, I was not aware that a facility in Golden
Gate allowed alcohol.
MR. MURDO SMITH: Golden Gate Community Center.
MRS. TILL: Doesn' t it belong to the citizens of Golden Gate? I pay
taxes for it.
MR. SMITH: It is owned by the County and falls under the Parks and
Recreation jurisdiction.
MR. MCMACKIN: I have a copy of the ordinance if you want it Gil.
MR. MUELLER: I have seen the result of alcohol being used at Tigertail
Beach. Over a period of ten years there have been probably 4 occasions
and it is not something I want to see again. Fights, arrests, I would
not like to see it at Tigertail or establish a precedent which would
allow it.
MR. CRONIN: I would recommend there be some sort of indemnification
language in this extension which would put Mr. Popper at risk as far as
booking these events on a long range basis and then not having them
available. Should there be some violation, as it is on an event to event
basis, that is a lot of responsibility.
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MR. POPPER: I would probably attend most of these functions. If for
some reason it does not go well I would lose. We have too much at stake
not to make it work. I would personally assure you it would be handled
properly.
MR. KOBZA: This is a very unique situation. I have questions related to
the mechanics of how it would work; economic and philosophical questions.
How does this fit in with our park philosophy. It is a different type of
facility than Golden Gate Community Center. Golden Gate Community Center
has a very controlled environment - people in one room segregated from
other people. How would you separate a group going to use the board walk
and on the beach? There is 3,100 linear feet of board walk - 1/2 mile.
It is definitely related to liability concern of the County - people in a
removed location that have to travel 3,100 feet and that is a little
different if they have indulged too much. How are you going to address
the mechanics of that issue. It is different than a building or other
type of facility in that respect.
MR. POPPER: We would have to provide additional trams to bring these
people to and from the beach. For special events the Hotel would pay for
drivers and service. If you look at the plan, you will see specifically
it was arranged so that people could not crash the party. This is about
10 feet off the ground, and could not be just walked onto. We have
security already planned at this point and we would be able to control it
so only members of the function will be there. We will bring them out
and we will bring them back. It is a better control then if they get
right into their car. There will be a waiting period and they can be
observed. If they had too much to drink they could be held and taken
back to the hotel. Security is definitely in the picture and we would
control entrance to that deck which is ten feet off the ground.
MR. KOBZA: You would provide trams - how many and what times?
MR. POPPER: It would depend on the number of people. It takes 4-5
minutes to get out there and the trams would go back and forth until we
get everybody back. It is a nice walk.
MR. KOBZA: I am concerned about that. During regular beach hours would
you have a conflict - say public would utilize the facility for lunch -
you would not serve alcohol then.
MR. POPPER: No alcohol at lunch. The only time it would be served would
be on a case by case basis and the County would have control of it.
MR. KOBZA: Would you buy extra trams if necessary? You are talking
about several hundred people at a function. Would it be a matter of
limiting the number of people? Is that something you are open to?
Security, how much security? Would you be paying a guard to man the
boardwalk with people utilizing both ends - a man patrolling at each, a
man on the beach, 3 or 4 people per event?
MR. POPPER: My responsibility would be to provide adequate security. I
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would have to rely on my personal knowledge, or if you feel you want to
stipulate the number.
MR. KOBZA: We could agree on the number of people involved and how they
are deployed.
MR. POPPER: On functions in the hotel, they are supervised by members of
management, members of security, also catering banquet people and we
would make sure this worked.
MR. KOBZA: I would want to know you have security also within the event
from the standpoint that no one from within the hotel comes that does not
belong there. I have a question related to liability concerns. I have
this fear that we have alcohol served at a public facility, someone has
an accident, fall, etc. , somebody drinks and gets in an accident, what is
our potential as liability as a County if anything happens. Does the
fact that we own and lease this property - liability of owner and/or
Registry provide liability for us?
MR. CRONIN: We would look for strong indemnification language. Risk
Management addresses those issues to relinquish County from those
liabilities, especially from events outside of County operational
facility where alcohol is served.
MR. KOBZA: Would these insurance policies include provision of
coinsurance and duties of defense so that the Registry and/or owners were
responsible for providing our cost of defense in the event we were
getting sued?
MR. CRONIN: I know certain language is in all County contracts. I am
not sure if defense language is in, but it could be specifically
addressed in the uniqueness of this situation. That may be a good
addition to our standard binder.
MR. MCMACKIN: The existing facility agreement by which the Registry
operates - we would be willing to extend that in any way Mr. Cronin felt
applies to this particular facility. It is important to note that you
have in here two large entities who are willing and able to idemnify
this. Our hotel is debt free, no mortgage, no liens, it is owned
outright. The Registry Hotel, the National Corporation, and these folks
are answerable.
MR. KOBZA: Would you be willing to bond off that responsibility?
MR. MCMACKIN: Yes, sir.
MR. KOBZA: A cash bond or some type of bond we could draw upon? This
Agreement will last ten years, and I would want to know that we could go
against the bond or some liquid form of asset without having to litigate
that. It has to be a zero liability and a zero cost basis to the County.
MR. MCMACKIN: That is also what we want and are willing to post bond.
We have already posted almost $200,000 against our obligation to
construct these buildings and extend the utility lines.
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MR. KOBZA: $75,000 in escrow - could you describe the original intent of
that escrow - I understand it was an agreement between the County, part
of the 1988 Agreement.
MR. MCMACKIN: It provides for construction of what is called the third
pod - there are two $75,000 funds (1) in escrow for utilities (2) to
report on all estimated cost of building of third pod of beach
facilities.
MR. KOBZA: It is now $200,000.
ANSWER: $196,000 in escrow.
MR. KOBZA: Now taking that money, roughly $200,000, is that all set
aside for construction of the third pod, or is $75,000 for utilities?
ANSWER: $75,000 for utilities, $75,000 for third pod.
MR. KOBZA: Plus interest, so if this does not happen $75,000 will still
be spent to construct a third pod and just look different than your
proposal? How many square feet would be added?
ANSWER: Have no architectual drawings at this time.
MR. KOBZA: Have you investigated permitting at all?
ANSWER: We understand permitting is necessary and is our responsibility.
It has to be done to build anything on the beach. We determined this
kind of structure is least environmentally offensive because all we are
doing is extending the deck 3,000 square feet.
QUESTION: What are the dimensions of that expansion?
ANSWER: Would be approximately 150 x 150.
MR. MCMACKIN: It would take care of 200 to 250 people - requires a
certain amount of room to move around. Those are rough figures, looking
to accommodate 250 people.
QUESTION: If you are going to have banquets, would you prepare
everything down there?
ANSWER: No, we would have storage facilities and that would handle
mostly barbecued steak, chicken, etc. - basically steak, all could be
prepared out there. It would be simple but elegant.
MR. KOBZA: The total cost of construction on what is proposed?
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ANSWER: Do not have actual figures but would be approximately $300,000.
We would take the $75,000 and put $225,000 to it. When utilities are
extended we must pay the contractor, then when the County is satisfied,
the County will reimburse us from our funds.
MR. KOBZA: Any additional utilities necessary because of this addition?
ANSWER: No, utilities were designed for a much larger facility than we
are proposing.
MR. KOBZA: Would you be open to a clause - you are here making
representations, we are relying on your reputation, good faith, etc.
Assuming that we were to provide the latitude to go in this direction and
accept with limitations some of the things you are asking us to do -
would you be willing to agree to a right of non assignment? In other
words a clause which prevented assignment. We are betting on you, if the
hotel sells or somebody else comes into the picture we ought to be able
to say that was theirs and not yours. Maybe Mr. Cronin has some comments
on that type of thing.
MR. CRONIN: It would be a matter of negotiation.
MR. KOBZA: We need some comfort level here that so we have additional
power of review.
MR. MCMACKIN: Speaking for the owners we certainly have no objection at
all. We do not intend to sell the hotel and we don' t intend to assign
this to anyone other than ourselves.
MR. KOBZA: Would you be open to the limitation on the number of events
per week? You said probably not more than two per week during season. I
am looking for some confirmation of that.
MR. POPPER: The difficulty I have is that I don' t know. To be honest
with you, I just don' t know. You obviously have the right to say no. I
cannot tell you right now and I don' t know how I could accommodate you.
You have the latitude to say no to me anytime.
MR. KOBZA: Let me tell you one of the things I am thinking about. When
you are in off season, it is daylight savings time, the park closes late
- 8 o'clock.
MR. SMITH: The parking lot is closed by the Registry during the summer
months because it is later. During the winter months we close it at 6
o'clock.
MR. KOBZA: I am trying to dovetail our policies with what they are
requesting so in terms of their special events. . .
MR. POPPER: It would be after the park closed that the event would be
held. During the summer it would probably be nine o'clock. Chances are
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we would probably come to you more during the winter months - convention
periods. We do not have the same requirements and needs in the summer
months that we do in the winter months. Most of our business in the
summer are State associations, people coming over for the weekend from
the East Coast. We do not have that same type of groups that require
outside events as we do in the winter.
MR. KOBZA: When would you schedule special events in relation to the
park hours? Are all special events after park hours?
ANSWER: I am proposing that we would identify those hours for you. We
would say the function is going to be between 7 and 9:30 or whatever it
is and you would have the right to say you can' t do it then but you could
later or earlier.
MR. KOBZA: Let's say there is a wedding in the afternoon so under your
proposal would you be able to have that if the park was still open?
ANSWER: A small wedding, I would say yes, 75 people or so. Again, it is
the demand and whatever you feel appropriate.
COMMENT: Small group and you wanted a luncheon out there I don' t see
where you would need the County's permission.
ANSWER: The only time we would look for County approval is in the
evening when we would serve liquor.
COMMENT: Could I, the public, hire the hall for a function through you.
ANSWER: Certainly. Now if you want to invite 200 or 250 of your best
friends and wanted lunch - I would be happy to.
MR. KOBZA: Would you charge what would be a hall charge - it is the
County's facility. Would be giving you a lease?
COMMENT: It is a Concession Agreement.
MR. KOBZA: Do you charge for using that facility. You have a
convention, you say it will be X number of dollars for use of the
facility, so much per person, etc.
MR. POPPER: What we do we have set dinner prices, set reception prices,
set drink prices, set bar tender charges, we do not charge for the space
as long as you have people for your function. We would not charge a
lesser amount to a County function as opposed to a hotel function. We
pay 20% of revenue to the County. I am sure you all understand business.
We have set prices, within those prices there are many organizations that
we give a break to. A lot of civic groups that meet at the hotel because
of the fact that we are a local entity. But basically I think we should
have one set of prices - it gets confusing when you start charging one
price for hotel guests and another for County residents.
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MR. KOBZA: Is any of that air conditioned?
ANSWER: Open
MRS TILL: Mr. Cronin, would that just be for one year, nine years, or
what? I do not want to make a decision for twenty years from now.
MR. CRONIN: As I understand it it would take effect at the end of the
current Concession Agreement which is 1995 if all options are realized.
The ten year extension that Mr. Popper is proposing runs from 1995 to
2005.
MR. SMITH: We have a Concession Agreement right now with the hotel until
1993. There is a two year option renewal after that, it could or could
not be renewed. If both parties agree upon it it will go until 1995.
Actually they have a contract only really up until 1993.
MR. MUELLER: Who is Mr. Oaks?
ANSWER: He is Executive Vice President of the Chamber of Commerce.
MR. MUELLER: He wrote me, I imagine all of us, a letter and his name was
unfamiliar to me.
MR. CLENDENON: What does this facility cost? The tramway, boardwalk,
utilities, etc.
ANSWER: The County owns the boardwalk and I believe we paid for it.
Almost $800,000. Hotel built and paid for the parking lot, gatehouse,
and everything at that end.
MR. KOBZA: Would the staff have any input here, or the County Manager?
MR. CRONIN: No, the County Manager is waiting for PARAB's
recommendation.
PUBLIC DISCUSSION:
Mr. Gaetano Allegretta, 1643 Johnnycake Drive: Recommend approval.
Events at beach would help guests enjoy their stay and also increase
revenue for the County through concession fees and various taxes.
Registry Resort is very community minded and not looking for everything
just for themselves. I am also a part time deputy for Collier County and
know the Resort is very security minded. Extra deputies are employed at
the hotel throughout the year when needed. We are talking about alcohol
on the beach and when you go five miles down the road to a County beach
you can drink anything you want as long as it is not in a glass bottle.
I know that we have had more problems with people drinking alcohol on the
County beaches than elsewhere. It would be an economic benefit to the
hotel and also to the County.
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Ms. Jeana Dawson, 27893 San Wan Court - also an employee of the hotel.
She feels this would be good for the hotel and their business. It would
give the opportunity to earn the "five star" award which would be a
credit to the community as well as the hotel.
PUBLIC DISCUSSION CLOSED AT 3:40 P.M. .
MR. KOBZA: Mr. Smith what is our policy of alcohol within our public
beaches? Consumption of alcohol on Vanderbilt Beach, Barefoot Beach,
etc.
MR. SMITH: If it is a park facility, there is no alcohol allowed. If
you are on the beach and drinking alcohol we cannot stop you. However,
in our beach accesses and getting to the beach, we can stop you. Now
Tigertail is basically a public park. We can stop people from carrying
alcohol to the beach, Barefoot Beach, the same thing. Vanderbilt is a
little different because that is an access. We can stop them in our
parking lot, but once they get on the road we cannot stop them from going
to the beach with alcohol. Clam Pass there is no drinking in the parking
lot or down to the beach itself.
MR. KOBZA: What is the pleasure of the Board. Lets poll the Board
members and see if we can reach a consensus?
MRS. TILL: I feel this is well thought out, and if the legal situations
are straightened out, I will vote for it.
MR. CLENDENON: I am in favor of it. My only concern is the change in
the Ordinance that our attorney mentioned and have him review our
recommendation before it goes to the BCC.
MS. THOMAS: This is very good because Florida is a tourist state. I am
for it.
MR. MUELLER: We spend a considerable amount of time drawing up an
ordinance, parts of which dealt with the use of alcoholic beverages on
the beach. I think the Commissioners adopted it almost verbatim. It
seems to me we are nulliying it and going against it to some extent. I
am not saying that I am absolutely dead set against it but that is an
issue that is bothering me. If someone can clarify that for me and show
me where I am wrong, I would most welcome them to do so. The second
situation I think we are establishing a very, very dangerous precedent.
I mentioned my experiences as far as Tigertail Beach was concerned. I
find it difficult to believe that we can allow this is some parts of the
County facilities, but to deny it in others. I question that very
strongly. We have meeting rooms at FMCP, why can' t they drink there. I
am not against drinking, but when it is done in excess, there will be
problems. There will be 3,100 feet of 8 ft. wide boardwalk and I can
just envision the results of people traversing that boardwalk. Another
thing, what would keep other condos, hotels, etc. from doing this same
thing along the entire stretch of beach for petitioning for the same
thing? Can you imagine what we would have in Collier County if
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ultimately we have alcohol being served up and down our beaches? We
would be much worse than Ft. Lauderdale ever became. The liability
factor is enormous. The Parks and Recreation Department does not need a
problem like that. I personally would not vote for it.
MR. CLENDENON: I hear you loud and clear but Mr. Popper said this is all
on a case by case basis and we have the option to turn him down at any
time.
MR. MUELLER: I appreciate you pointing that out to me. Mr. Popper is a
very persuasive man. He is a tremendous salesman and I envy him. If
there were a bad experience, do you think the County would have the
fortitude to turn them down? I doubt it very much.
MR. CLENDENON: Wouldn' t it be normal for these special events to come to
this Board first?
ANSWER: It would go to the County Manager or his designee which would
possibly be the Public Services Administrator.
MR. MUELLER: Do you think that after they invested $2 or 3 hundred
thousand dollars in a facility, and there were a problem, the County
Manager or whomever would say no you cannot do it any more?
MS. TILL: There are two ways of looking at this. Ultimately we are
skeptical about some of this.
MR. MUELLER: The Park and Recreation facilities, whatever it be, somehow
those places owned by the taxpayers should be places where we do not have
to consume alcohol beverages. It is such a beautiful place, Clam Pass,
that it just seems too bad that this too has to be a place where we have
to consume alcoholic beverages. They will turn this into a zoo, mark my
words. I know how people conduct themselves at the hotels on Marco when
going overboard on drinking and the same thing will happen. The Registry
is a reputable place but it can happen anywhere; but why allow it to
happen?
PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED AND WE ARE GOING TO RESOLVE THIS AMONG THE
BOARD.
MR. KOBZA: This is probably one of the most difficult decisions I have
faced on this Board. It is a fairly sophisticated undertaking and one not
without its risks. I think that when we have an opportunity and can do
so in a fashion that is safe to the County that can provide services to
the County within our parks, we should try to do that. And also as it
relates to local businesses, we do have an economic interest here in
employing people, and keeping people employed, and we are very much a
tourist dominated economy. I think we need to recognize that. On the
other hand, knowing this property very well, and it's a beautiful area,
and I enjoy it a lot. Anything that would endanger the enjoyability of
that area by the public I am very sensitive to; including the fact that
13
we would mix the general public at large with the consumption of alcohol
at that facility. I have a lot of trepidation about that particular
issue, and am somewhat on the same page as Gil on that issue. However, I
think I have a suggestion for the Board - I am also concerned about the
other issues that were the subject of my questions. What I would be in
favor of would be a proposal that would allow the project to go forward.
I think the economic issues are fairly detailed any may be beyond what we
can resolve ourselves. We have a major expenditure of funds, and we have
to rely upon the County Manager to make sure the County is protected and
that we would get our share in the operations is what I am basically
trying to say. I would be in support of the project subject to
stipulations that there be a whole payment of all costs associated with
construction permitting, security, and I would be absolutely definite, I
would not want to see "adequate security" in the agreement. I would say
a certain number of guards per a certain number of people. That all
transportation issues were resolved, and again I would not say "adequate
transportation", I would say a certain number of trams available
independent of what the public tram system might be, and a coordination
of that. I might include a probationary period, I would definitely
include a no assignment provision or limited rights to assignment because
we are dealing with these people and not with somebody else at this
point. I would want adequate bonding for the County in terms of
liability because it's important that we not just have a right to law
suit. I want to know that if something happens we have cash or
something to draw against and then we will litigate it. In addition, I
think the alcohol is the hardest issue. I would support, with those
stipulations. As related to alcohol I think initially what I would
approach is this, I would not allow the service of alcohol during park
hours when the public is using the park. I would not allow the intermix
of hotel and public use of alcohol during park hours. After that, I
would do it on a case by case basis, and try to put definition as to what
counts a default in the Agreement. It is not merely that there could be
a accident, but if people are excessive and rowdy, or if there is any
adverse consequence, I want to know that it is monitored and that we have
the right to cut that program off tomorrow. That would provide a lot of
incentive for the Registry and Owners to make sure they are policing that
program. I would also want to make sure that the security doesn' t allow
people from outside the special events into it - sometimes people come in
by boat, or they walk the beach, although Clam Pass is rather removed at
both ends. I do not want to mix those things. I think people of the
County are going to be very sensitive about the alcohol issue. I can
support the program but want some very severe limitations on the alcohol.
MR. CLENDENON: I see these special events, which are distinctively
separate from the operation of the park, but during these special events
the operation is an extension of the Registry. It is their operation,
they are responsible, they provide security and transportation - you
would almost have to say I want one guard for every ten people. Put
definite numbers on.
MR. KOBZA: That is what I am saying exactly. It is not enough to say
adequate.
14
MR. CLENDENON: You mentioned the separation of the public transportation
as opposed to the special event. Those two occasions will never occur at
the same time.
MR. KOBZA: Well, a wedding in the afternoon, 300 people and guests come
in and use the boardwalk. They have to use the trams, what about the
public that is sitting there? You have to have the ability to get them
both to the beach. I am trying to think this through and I want to know
that a provision is being made. Basically, what this would mean - an
afternoon wedding, no alcohol, the beach is open. The beach is open, no
alcohol. The beach is closed, on a limited basis, given a lot of
conditions, a lot of security, and review and approval by the County -
and I might even ask them to pay for having a County representative
available, like a Park Ranger, to make sure they are in compliance.
MR. MUELLER: I still think we would be making a terrible mistake to
begin to allow a potential explosive exception to our ordinances as far
as the consumption of alcoholic beverages on public property is
concerned. That could open up a Pandora's box of problems that would be
almost unimaginable. I really see very little that the taxpayers could
gain from this. There are other ways of gaining revenue, much simpler,
better, and less dangerous than to think this is going to benefit the
County financially to any appreciable degree. It will not at all
compensate for the potential problems that are going to result in
granting this exception.
MR. MUELLER: Would someone like to take a stab at making a motion?
MS. TILL: I think he is asking for a 10 year extension, extend deck to
seat 200 people, approx. 3,000 sq. ft. , ask permission on an event to
event basis to be able to serve alcohol beverages on the deck. Think
that it is.
MR. KOBZA: In off park hours.
MS TILL: After park hours.
MR. KOBZA: Is that a motion?
MS. TILL: Yes, I will make that in the form of a motion.
MR. KOBZA: OK. I am going to ask you to include my stipulations.
MS. TILL: Yes. I want to include that stipulation. No alcoholic
beverages during park hours, when the parks are open.
MR. KOBZA: How about the other stipulations?
MS. TILL: Oh,
15
MR. KOBZA: Well, not that you have to memorize them - specific security,
specific transportation provisions, no assignment clauses, full payment
of all costs associated with construction, and permitting, it is the
responsibility of the condo association and the Registry, bonding to the
County.
Specific provision on security - in other words an officer per designated
number of people, specific provision on transportation - in other words
how that relates to the existing tram system up there. No assignment
clause and I think that we agreed a provision that no alcohol be served
during park hours, the bonding, that there be a cap line posted in favor
of the County for the purposes of indemnification and hold harmless for
any potential liability including the cost of defense that arises out of
the operation of the facility. When I say facility I mean the expanded
facility. Did I leave anything out? So anyway those are the
stipulations that I came up with, so if your motion for approval with the
10 year extension, subject to the stipulations? OK so that is the
recommendation to the County Manager's office and the County Board.
MS. TILL: Say, Yes?
MR. KOBZA: Is that your recommendation?
MS. TILL: Yes.
MR. KOBZA: The motion is recommendation to the County Manager's office
and the County Board of a 10 year extension of the concession agreement
subject to the listed stipulations.
MR. CLENDENON: May I suggest we add one additional stipulation is that
the Ordinance be changed accordingly?
MR. KOBZA: It is your motion Mrs. Till. Is that acceptable to you?
MRS. TILL: All right.
MR. KOBZA: OK and that the ordinance regulating the service of alcohol
at County facilities be amended accordingly.
MR. CLENDENON: Seconded the Motion.
MR. KOBZA: OK we have a motion and a second on the floor. Any further
discussion on the motion and subject? That motion passes with 4/1 -
negative vote by Mr. Mueller.
MR. MUELLER: when will this be presented to BCC?
MR. SMITH: When the Registry and AUO decide they are ready.
5 MINUTE RECESS
16
B. BOAT LAUNCH GOLDEN GATE CANAL UPDATE:
MR. MURDO SMITH: I will give you an update of what our Department is
doing and locations that we have looked at. It would come back to you
people again for your review before any decisions were made. Then Tom
Burgess, representing Southern Bass Anglers as well as 4 or 5 other Bass
Clubs here in Collier County, will speak. This group has requested a boat
launch in the Golden Gate Canal. (A map showing locations was shown)
There is a report from the Real Property Department in your packet showing
the survey completed by them. In the Growth Management Plan it addressed
a fresh water boat lane or ramp in the Golden Gate area. We looked at
different areas where South Florida Water Management currently has
existing boat ramps they use to test the waters, etc. in the canals.
These are boat ramps that are basically limerock, stone, or gravel and are
not maintained all that well. The Bass Club has requested that we look
into the possibility of getting some type of launch for them. Staff
looked at a possible location off 58th Street S.W. , which is just off the
Parkway. There are two launch areas by the bridge on Golden Gate Parkway,
one on the north and one on the south side. There is another area along
a frontage road on the east side of 951 . There is no current boat launch
area there, but the area is quite secluded with no homes nearby, it is
vacant, and the property may be relatively inexpensive to purchase. Real
Property is checking on this. We will probably favor the frontage road
along the east side of 951, which is near 39th Street. These will be
strictly fresh water ramps, the canal goes into Lake Sapphire. The Growth
Management Plan has estimated $200,000 per lane per boat launch facility
which would include parking, restroom facilities, fish cleaning tables,
lights, etc. There are approximately 200 or 300 members in the various
fishing clubs. Staff will return at another PARAB meeting to advise
Staff's recommendation and approval to go before the BCC.
C. AMENDMENT TO FOOD & BEVERAGE CONTRACT, TIGERTAIL BEACH:
Cool Concessions has requested a reduction in their remittance to the
County because of conditions at Tigertail Beach. Mr. Smith has drafted an
Amendment to the Food and Beverage Concession Agreement and submitted it
to the County Attorney's office for review. Staff has met with the
Concessionaire and negotiated a reduction agreeable to Staff and to the
Concessionaire. The Amendment states the Concessionaire will pay 15.5%
gross or $650/month whichever is greater. Their last percentage was
approximately 22% or $900/month.
Mr. Tod Herbst, representing Cool Concessions, Inc. , was present to answer
questions.
Staff's recommendation is that we approve this Amendment, providing the
County Attorney approves it also.
A discussion was held regarding whose responsibility it was to clean the
restrooms. Since the inception of Concessionaire Agreements in 1982, it
has been the responsibility of the Concessionaire.
Mr. Gil Mueller: In view of the past problems that we've had with that
beach, and the unimaginable amount of man hours and money that it's cost
the County, I'm going to have to preface my motion with a comment.
17
Hopefully this will never happen again. But, unfortunately because of the
original demand by the. . . And I'd like you to make this a matter of record
Ramona, if you will please. I'll begin again. Unfortunately because of
the original demand by the County Environmental Department to stop raking
the beach, and the Park and Recreation Department's agreement to that
demand to do so, we again, and I emphasize again find ourselves in the
position of having to considered a reduction in the fees for the
Concessionaire. Consequently loosing the Park and Recreation Department
and the Tax payers additional revenue. I make a motion that we accept Mr.
Herbst's request to modify the Food and Beverage Concession Agreement.
MOTION by Mr. Gil Mueller: We accept the recommendation of Staff and the
request of the Concessionaire for a modification of the Concession
Agreement.
Seconded by Ms. Geneva Till, motion passed 5-0 vote.
D. UPDATE ON MANAGEMENT PLAN:
Mr. Jeff Moore, Coastal Engineering, made a presentation of the Lely
Barefoot Beach Preserve Management Plan. He would like PARAB to set some
schedules for a workshop, and has a 10 page outline of what process/steps
to take. The Land Management Plan is a vehicle that defines how the park
is used. Staff will have to go through this process every 5 years
throughout the life of our lease with the State. All of the vegetation
and different habitats have been identified. This is a good habitat for
gopher tortoises and a great deal of bird life. Six to twelve endangered
species of plants have been identified and an overlay of different types
of jurisdictional areas done on maps. The Coastal Control Line, as well
as an existing road, goes behind the dune itself. Brazilian Pepper and
Australian Pine are a big nuisance at the park. A photo was presented
depicting the front of the dune, the dune itself, and in back of the dune.
Coastal Engineering is the firm that did the County work for the bath
house, etc. , and have been involved with the area for about two years.
Mr. Smith commented that the Plan submitted to the State during talks for
the Management Agreement was a very passive area. We have an agreement
with the State to submit the Land Management Plan for approval. Barefoot
Beach Preserve is the most pristine beach in Collier County. The entire
goal of the Management Plan is to limit development there. The site
itself is about 1 mile long, north to south. PARAB may wish to set
standards and establish public contact the week of October 7, 1991. The
Draft needs to be submitted to the State by the end of October. A public
meeting has been planned for October 16, 2:00 p.m. at the Golden Gate
Community Park. Ms. Geneva Till requested a letter of reminder be sent to
all PARAB members.
E. NSA CONTRACT:
This is a new agreement for scorekeeper services, to be used for all our
softball, basketball, and Co-ed leagues throughout the County. It will be
a one year contract with an association to perform all those functions.
There is a fee schedule per game. We have a similar agreement with
umpires. Staff is convinced that this is the best route to go. It will
18
probably save the County some time, because we won' t be calling the
Scorekeepers all the time. Staff recommends approval, so the subject can
go before the BCC. This has been approved by the County Attorney. Mr.
Gil Mueller motioned to approve the Naples Scorekeepers Association (NSA)
Contract as presented, so Mr. Murdo Smith can go before the BCC with it.
Ms. Cherryle Thomas seconded, and with no further discussion the motion
passed unanimously with a 5-0 vote.
F. SCHOOL BUS AGREEMENT:
This is a School Bus Agreement that we've had for numerous years. This is
an update with the School Board for busing our Summer Camp kids and After
School Program kids to different areas - the beach, bowling, and so
forth. Mr. Gil Mueller commented that he thinks it's a good idea. Last
year we had 3 or 4 a week, this year we cut it back to about two. Staff
recommended approval so it can go before the BCC. Ms. Cherryle Thomas
motioned to recommend to the BCC to approve the School Bussing Agreement
as stated by Murdo Smith today. Mr. William Clendenon seconded, and with
no further discussion, the motion passed with a 5-0 vote.
IV. REQUESTS FOR DISCUSSION (continued):
Chairman Kobza commented that since the time for the meeting was running
out, he wanted to economize on the time for the remaining issues.
A. PRODUCTIVITY REPORT DISCUSSION SCHEDULING:
Chairman Kobza requested an item from the Productivity Report be on each
PARAB Agenda to address one at a time. Mr. Murdo Smith will write a
memorandum to the County Manager to ask the BCC what direction to take
regarding beach issues - parking, fees, etc. Chairman Kobza commented
that he would like clear direction from the BCC or from the County
Manager's office by the next regular meeting, October 23, telling PARAB
what they want done. PARAB does not want to do something that BCC has
other plans for. Mr. William Clendenon asked for a copy of the
Productivity Report. PARAB decided to put "User Fees" as they relate to
beach parking on the Agenda for October 23 , 1991 , and hopefully we will
have BCC direction by then.
B. VANDERBILT BEACH TURNAROUND:
No discussion.
C. TIGERTAIL BEACH CLEAN-UP:
Mr. William Clendenon asked staff if they were aware that they can use
convicted prisoners from the county jail for this type of work. The
Department is presently using these people on weekends to do the raking of
the beach. Mr. Gary Franco clarified that they are not convicted felons,
but Community Service workers. Mr. Clendenon commented that Judges assign
people to so many weekends in jail; they are convicted and they can be
forced to work. All that staff has to do is get in touch with the Jail
Administrator. People in the County Jail awaiting trial can not be
worked. These people are basically laborers, and one cannot rely on them
to provide any particular skills. These people do not wear jail uniforms
19
but they wear mustard colored work clothes.
D. BUDGET ISSUES:
Mr. Murdo Smith updated PARAB. Basically the BCC approved the swimming
pool, the multipurpose building, the football/soccer field lighting for
Golden Gate, North Naples and Immokalee. We received approval for
improvements at the gymnasium in Immokalee and Conklin Point Boat Ramp.
In reference to the recommended cuts by the County Manager, the BCC did
not agree with the cuts and left them in the Budget. The staff was also
to be cut at the Community Centers and the Multipurpose Building, but the
BCC left that in the Budget. Basically, we did very well this year. The
Department submitted a good operating budget, kept it under the
percentage, and the BCC adopted it. We did loose a Park Ranger position.
The designated safe swimming area for Tigertial is on-going with Coastal
Engineering right now. New sod, plants, and sprinkler system will be
installed at Tigertail Beach. The sign at the front entrance to Tigertail
Beach will be dressed up. At Tommie Barfield, improvements to the
softball facility have already been started. We're looking at possibly
landscaping around the tennis courts where they put bicycles, to buffer
that area from the road. The Frank E. Mackle Community Park dividing
wall: At one of the Budget meetings Murdo brought up the subject of the
dividing wall; the County Manager and Commissioner Shanahan discussed the
possibility of putting it in now as we still have a contract with the
vendor and the time to do it. Bill Flynn from Compliance Services
obtained a price to install the dividing wall; however, he wanted to check
with the architects to see if it's structurally sound. We still have a
contract. The Community Center at Veteran's Park is estimated to be
opened around the middle of November. Chairman Kobza requested that staff
schedule PARAB's November meeting at the Veterans Park Community Center,
if it's completed in time.
VI. REPORTS/UPDATES:
A. BONITA BEACH PARK:
Mr. Murdo Smith mentioned that the bath house at Barefoot Beach is out for
bid. Mr. Gil Mueller suggested that we'll probably have the bids on that
at the next regular meeting.
B. RECYCLING:
No discussion.
C. TIGERTAIL VEGETATION:
Previously discussed.
D. 951 BOAT RAMP PARKING:
Still investigating additional property there.
E. POOLS:
Staff hasn' t been informed that it's been cut
20
F. VANDERBILT BEACH ACCESSES & PARKING:
Mr. Smith commented that he would like to speak with Mr. Kobza further
about the landscaping at Vanderbilt Beach Access. He has a few ideas.
G. COMMUNITY CENTERS:
Previously Addressed. They will probably all be opening in November
sometime.
H. FRANK E. MACKLE JR. PARK BUILDING EXPANSION:
Still on-going. The punch list is being done. One inspection had 30 some
items, the next list had 20, the next list they'll have 10, and hopefully
we can get them all corrected this time. Mr. Smith said that the
Contractor performed very poorly on the initial punch list. Mr. Gil
Mueller agreed. Mr. Bill Flynn, is well aware of it.
I. CONKLIN POINT BOAT RAMP:
This item pulled from the BCC Agenda by the County Managers office, so
design approval was not received. Negotiations with Westinghouse are
continuing.
J. LISTING OF DONATED PROPERTY:
Nothing yet. It's not a top priority for the Real Property Department.
Murdo Smith will write another memo, and Mr. Gil Mueller requested to add
to that memo that it was requested nine months ago.
K. IMMOKALEE CHILD CARE CENTER:
Staff doesn' t think that they'll be putting it in there. They almost
passed their time, because there was some problems with zoning as far as
Real Property was concerned. It was mentioned to us that there were no
concerns with zoning, and then for some reason, some were brought up.
Staff hasn' t heard from Mr. Lawson in quite some time. Ms. Cherryle
Thomas commented that they went in connection with another group, now
Stepping Stones will get Federal Government Money.
L. CLAM PASS PARK:
Previously discussed.
VIII. NEW BUSINESS:
None.
VI. ADJOURNMENT:
Mr. William Clendenon motioned to adjourn the meeting at 5:45 p.m. Ms.
Cherryle Thomas seconded, and the motion passed with a 5-0 vote.
MS:rtd:003825
24-Oct-1991 Thu 17:16
21
t `
I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M
i Date: 15-Oct-1991 10: 10am GMT
From: Barbara Johnson
JOHNSON B
Dept: Parks & Recreation
Tel No: 353-0404
TO: Ramona Daugs ( DAUGS )
Subject: PARAB MINUTES
MINUTES
PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD
Golden Gate Community Park, Administrative Office
NAPLES, FLORIDA
SEPTEMBR 25, 1990
PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman
Mr. Gil Mueller, Vice Chairman
Ms. Cherryle Thomas (Arrived at 2:30 p.m. )
Ms. Geneva Till
Mr. William Clendenon
ALSO PRESENT: Mr. Murdo Smith, Acting Department Director
Ms. Mary Ellen Donner, Recreation Superintendent
Mr. Gary Franco, Parks Superintendent
I. Call to Order: The meeting was called to order at 2:05 p.m.
II. Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag:
III. Approval of Minutes: Mr. Gil Mueller asked if the $30.00 facility usage
fee was the same amount for both indoor and outdoor facility usage. Ms.
Mary Ellen Donner replied that it is. Approval of the August 28, 1991
Minutes as presented. Motioned by Mr. William Clendenon, seconded by Ms.
Geneva Till , passed 4-0.
IV. Request For Discussion:
Chairman Kobza requested that PARAB put Productivity Report Discussion
Scheduling and Vanderbilt Beach Turnaround on the agenda for discussion.
Mr. William Clendenon requested that PARAB add the subject of Tigertail
Beach Clean-up to the agenda. Mr. Gil Mueller requested to discuss Budget
issues.
V. New Business/Presentations:
dr
REGISTRY PRESENTATION
1
A letter was received from Attorney McMackin, representing the Registry
Hotel Resort, requesting to present their request for providing banquet
services after park hours to PARAB. Mr. Kobza has received 5 letters
(provided for record) in support of the Registry's request.
Mr. McMackin: The Registry Resort's ownership is comprised of 426 condo
owners, each owning a room or rooms. Mr. Popper is the General Manager,
and we are going to present a proposal that we believe will be beneficial
to both the community and the hotel .
Mr. Kobza: What we have is a building that is owned by many owners and
they enter into a management contract to run the hotel . The owners
purchase a room instead of stock, and it is a non-residential condo
managed by the Registry Resort. Mr. McMackin represents the hotel owners
and Mr. Popper represents the Registry Hotel Corporation.
Mr. Popper: I would like to share some thoughts with you; I have been in
Naples 2 1/2 years, live in Pelican Bay, and enjoy the area. The hotel
has operated the beach concession since 1988 and the present contract
expires March 31, 1993. (Picture shown of Clam Pass Beach area) .
Obligations of Registry: Hire the tram operators - have 6 - and pay one
half of their salaries. 200,014 people visited the beach last year, 62%
were local residents and the remaining were Registry guests. We take care
of the cleanliness of the area where snacks are served, and the restrooms.
Two people work there from sunrise to sunset. They handle all the
equipment rentals - boats, canoes - maintain the park grounds and parking
area and treat it as if it were part of the Registry. This is of benefit
to the County as we pay 20% of the gross revenue to the County - $47,241
last year. We provide an emergency communication link from the beach to
the Resort if there is a problem. We stand responsible for what is used
there. A study of 650 beaches in the US showed Clam Pass as number 11 -
this study included beaches in Hawaii and in Florida, and was based on the
water, temperature, and cleanliness. In the 3/15/88 Agreement between the
AUO and the County, $75,000 was escrowed for development of utilities to
Clam Pass Beach - water, electricity and telephone. The County put up a
like amount of money, the AUO put up another $75,000 for expansion of the
beach facilities. The $150,000 in escrow held by the County is now worth
approximately $200,000. The status of the utilities - hopefully work will
start in November. The utilities will run along the beach through an
easement from Naples Cay and by February or March next year, we will have
utilities out there. The other half of the arrangement is to enlarge the
facilities. (Showed concept) We wish to build a deck, storage area,
convert the existing storage area into a kitchen, enlarge the restrooms
and we will have utilities hooked up to that and will provide lunches.
(Showed a sample menu without prices as the prices need to be negotiated
with the County. ) This will enlarge the seating area - Easter sunrise
services are now held on the beach, weddings and local functions could
take place and the Resort could hold banquets. Basically the hotel is a
land locked hotel with no golf facilities or beach facilities of their
own. Through a concession agreement we have been able to use the beach,
but the hotel has lost approximately $117,000 due to the inability to hold
banquets, etc.on the beach front. We cannot compete with the Ritz, Naples
Beach Club, or Marco area hotels that have these beachside facilities. We
2
have lost probably 3 to 5 million dollars due to this fact. People pay
$70 to 80,000 for a 4 or 5 day event, $60 to 80,000 for a banquet. We are
able to provide employment for 750 in staff, 40% are entry level
positions. These people would be out of work if this work was not
available. By being in a non-competitive position we have lost, but the
County has also lost revenue over a period of years, by not being able to
do something on the beach. We are looking for (1) approval and
endorsement for a 10 year extension of our concession agreement, through
the year 2005, for which we have offered to pay $100,000 to the County.
It is our life line, we can plan ahead - bookings are made 5-7 years
ahead. (2) Expand the deck to seat 200 people and we would have the
ability to serve food out there. (3) We ask for permission on an event
by event basis to serve alcohol in conjunction with food. We would be
judged on how well we had done the last time. We would get permission for
one event only at a time. We would be prepared to have security out there
and make certain that things were clean, and treat it the same way as if
the event were being held in the hotel , and the County would receive 20%
of gross revenue. We are looking for a ten year extension, to enlarge the
deck and facilities, and for permission on a case by case event to serve
alcohol on the deck. The Registry had a rocky start with the public.
Since I have been here I have tried to become part of the community, work
with the community, and have a good relationship with the neighbors. We
want to be good neighbors. I feel if we were able to do what we would
like to do it would be a great source of enjoyment for anyone using Clam
Pass Beach - we have overflow parking at the Registry, would be able to
serve lunch, would be able to have community events, and would be able to
compete with other hotels. It is important from a financial point of
view, we have 750 employees, and in my opinion it is a win, win situation.
The County would get a percentage, we would build and the County would own
it, we would maintain it. We are asking for endorsement.
Discussion:
Mrs. Till : If given permission for alcohol use to one area, does that
affect all other areas in the County? Will it open it up for all other
areas?
Mr. Popper: Right now in Golden Gate there is a entity which can serve
the community on a case by case basis. No other area in a County park has
this type of facility. We could offer security and control that area.
There are a number of cases where this type of arrangement has taken place
- it is not unique in origin. Squaw Peak, Grand Canyon National Lodge, and
other properties in California and Hawaii that have similar arrangements
with hotels were able to use County facilities for this. Based on this,
and an exception in Golden Gate, and I would be held responsible.
Mrs. Till : How many times?
Mr. Popper: I could see it mostly in season or during convention season.
Once or twice a week after that.
Mrs. Till : What is 20% revenue - it includes what?
Mr. Popper: Anything I sell out there - food, suntan oil , rentals, etc.
3
Mr. Kobza: I anticipated legal questions would be asked and asked the
County Attorney's office to have a representative here. Mr. Cronin is
present to answer any questions we may have. Would there be a legal
reason why we could or could not allow a concession of this kind at Clam
Pass as related to other parks. Are we legally locked in to allowing
other applicants at other parks.
Mr. Cronin: You may amend the Ordinance to allow that activity to take
place at this location. There would be no precedent setting in other
parks or allowing it on a wide spread basis.
Mr. Kobza: This platform will be used for a day to day and special
events.
Mr. Popper: Banquets are usually 7-9 pm and would not interfere with
normal beach activities. It would be a separate operation.
Mr. Kobza: Some occasions you mentioned may not start after closing,
wedding receptions, community functions, these people would not be
permitted to close the park down?
Mr. Popper: No, nothing to impair visitors from using Clam Pass Park. It
would be strictly an extra event to be held by the hotel when the park is
closed. The Registry would be the caterer for all events.
Mr. Kobza: The 10 year extension, why?
Mr. Popper: We book business in advance, and have repeat business. It
is important to us. We would feel better knowing we have the Agreement
for ten years. We are in an unenviable position and have nothing to
bargain with. We have done a good job, but the County has all the cards.
I am standing here and say whatever you want, in reason, we will do it.
We are looking for advice from you. The Board of County Commissioners
will be looking for your recommendations. If ten years is too long, let
us discuss it. I want to be reasonable and want you to understand my
point of view. I need to plan ahead.
Mrs. Thomas: Are the same arrangements in existence in Florida?
Mr. Popper: I do not know - it is existing here in our Golden Gate area.
Mr. Mueller: Is your intention to take down the existing structure and
build a new one?
Mr. Popper: All we are taking about is the addition of the deck,
converting this building to a kitchen, storage building and expansion of
the men and ladies restrooms.
Mr. Mueller: Who is going to pay?
Mr. McMackin: The owners of the hotel from the money in escrow - there
really is no agreement as to what we would build - whatever would have the
least impact on natural resources. We have $75,000 of that amount and it
would be our responsibility to pay for it and it would then be County
4
property.
Mr. Mueller: Mr. Cronin, my primary concern is that a precedent would be
established for use of alcoholic beverages on County property. What if it
materializes, went on for a year, and everything went well . Some
organization on Marco Island said they wanted to use Frank Mackle and
serve cocktails, or someone wanted something on the beach during spring
break and serve cocktails. Would the County then be put in a safe legal
position to turn it down?
Mr. Cronin: Yes. The ordinance would have to be amended to be allowed in
specific places.
Mr. Mueller: It could be allowed in some places and not in other of
similar types?
Mr. Cronin: It would depend how the facilities were defined.
Mr. Mueller: I am talking about serving alcohol at beach A and 5 miles
down the road not serving alcoholic beverages at beach B.
Mr. Cronin: In my opinion you can safely do that if you allow Golden Gate
to do that now. I do not have that ordinance with me, but would be
willing to get it for you.
Mr. Mueller: One question, I was not aware that a facility in Golden Gate
allowed alcohol .
Mr. Murdo Smith: Golden Gate Community Center.
Mrs. Till : Doesn't it belong to the citizens of Golden Gate? I pay taxes
for it.
Mr. Smith: It is owned by the County and falls under the Parks and
Recreation jurisdiction.
Mr. McMackin: I have a copy of the ordinance if you want it Gil .
Mr. Mueller: I have seen the result of alcohol being used at Tigertail
Beach. Over a period of ten years there have been probably 4 occasions
and it is not something I want to see again. Fights, arrests, I would not
like to see it at Tigertail or establish a precedent which would allow it.
Mr. Cronin: I would recommend there be some sort of indemnification
language in this extension which would put Mr. Popper at risk as far as
booking these events on a long range basis and then not having them
available. Should there be some violation, as it is on an event to event
basis, that is a lot of responsibility.
Mr. Popper: I would probably attend most of these functions. If for some
reason it does not go well I would lose. We have too much at stake not to
make it work. I would personally assure you it would be handled properly.
5
Mr. Kobza: This is a very unique situation. I have questions related to
the mechanics of how it would work; economic and philosophical questions.
How does this fit in with our park philosophy. It is a different type of
facility than Golden Gate Community Center. Golden Gate Community Center
has a very controlled environment - people in one room segregated from
other people. How would you separate a group going to use the board walk
and on the beach? There is 3, 100 linear feet of board walk - 1/2 mile.
It is definitely related to liability concern of the County - people in a
removed location that have to travel 3,100 feet and that is a little
different if they have indulged too much. How are you going to address
the mechanics of that issue. It is different than a building or other
type of facility in that respect.
Mr. Popper: We would have to provide additional trams to bring these
people to and from the beach. For special events the Hotel would pay for
drivers and service. If you look at the plan, you will see specifically
it was arranged so that people could not crash the party. This is about
10 feet off the ground, and could not be just walked onto. We have
security already planned at this point and we would be able to control it
so only members of the function will be there. We will bring them out and
we will bring them back. It is a better control then if they get right
into their car. There will be a waiting period and they can be observed.
If they had too much to drink they could be held and taken back to the
hotel . Security is definitely in the picture and we would control
entrance to that deck which is ten feet off the ground.
Mr. Kobza: You would provide trams - how many and what times?
Mr. Popper: It would depend on the number of people. It takes 4-5
minutes to get out there and the trams would go back and forth until we
get everybody back. It is a nice walk.
Mr. Kobza: I am concerned about that. During regular beach hours would
you have a conflict - say public would utilize the facility for lunch -
you would not serve alcohol then.
Mr. Popper: No alcohol at lunch. The only time it would be served would
be on a case by case basis and the County would have control of it.
Mr. Kobza: Would you buy extra trams if necessary? You are talking about
several hundred people at a function. Would it be a matter of limiting
the number of people? Is that something you are open to? Security, how
much security? Would you be paying a guard to man the boardwalk with
people utilizing both ends - a man patrolling at each, a man on the beach,
3 or 4 people per event?
Mr. Popper: My responsibility would be to provide adequate security. I
would have to rely on my personal knowledge, or if you feel you want to
stipulate the number.
Mr. Kobza: We could agree on the number of people involved and how they
are deployed.
Mr. Popper: On functions in the hotel , they are supervised by members of
6
management, members of security, also catering banquet people and we would
make sure this worked.
Mr. Kobza: I would want to know you have security also within the event
from the standpoint that no one from within the hotel comes that does not
belong there. I have a question related to liability concerns. I have
this fear that we have alcohol served at a public facility, someone has an
accident, fall , etc. , somebody drinks and gets in an accident, what is our
potential as liability as a County if anything happens. Does the fact
that we own and lease this property - liability of owner and/or Registry
provide liability for us?
Mr. Cronin: We would look for strong indemnification language. Risk
Management addresses those issues to relinquish County from those
liabilities, especially from events outside of County operational facility
where alcohol is served.
Mr. Kobza: Would these insurance policies include provision of
coinsurance and duties of defense so that the Registry and/or owners
were responsible for providing our cost of defense in the event we were
getting sued?
Mr. Cronin: I know certain language is in all County contracts. I am not
sure if defense language is in, but it could be specifically addressed in
the uniqueness of this situation. That may be a good addition to our
standard binder.
Mr. McMackin: The existing facility agreement by which the Registry
operates - we would be willing to extend that in any way Mr. Cronin felt
applies to this particular facility. It is important to note that you
have in here two large entities who are willing and able to idemnify this.
Our hotel is debt free, no mortgage, no liens, it is owned outright. The
Registry Hotel , the National Corporation, and these folks are answerable.
Mr. Kobza: Would you be willing to bond off that responsibility?
Mr. McMackin: Yes, sir.
Mr. Kobza: A cash bond or some type of bond we could draw upon? This
Agreement will last ten years, and I would want to know that we could go
against the bond or some liquid form of asset without having to litigate
that. It has to be a zero liability and a zero cost basis to the County.
Mr. McMackin: That is also what we want and are willing to post bond. We
have already posted almost $200,000 against our obligation to construct
these buildings and extend the utility lines.
Mr. Kobza: $75,000 in escrow - could you describe the original intent of
that escrow - I understand it was an agreement between the County, part of
the 1988 Agreement.
Mr. McMackin: It provides for construction of what is called the third
pod - there are two $75,000 funds (1) in escrow for utilities (2) to
report on all estimated cost of building of third pod of beach
7
facilities.
Mr. Kobza: It is now $200,000.
Answer: $196,000 in escrow.
Mr. Kobza: Now taking that money, roughly $200,000, is that all set aside
for construction of the third pod, or is $75,000 for utilities?
Answer: $75,000 for utilities, $75,000 for third pod.
Mr. Kobza: Plus interest, so if this does not happen $75,000 will still
be spent to construct a third pod and just look different than your
proposal? How many square feet would be added?
Answer: Have no architectual drawings at this time.
Mr. Kobza: Have you investigated permitting at all?
Answer: We understand permitting is necessary and is our responsibility.
It has to be done to build anything on the beach. We determined this kind
of structure is least environmentally offensive because all we are doing
is extending the deck 3,000 square feet.
Question: What are the dimensions of that expansion?
Answer: Would be approximately 150 x 150.
Mr. McMackin: It would take care of 200 to 250 people - requires a
certain amount of room to move around. Those are rough figures, looking
to accommodate 250 people.
Question: If you are going to have banquets, would you prepare everything
down there?
Answer: No, we would have storage facilities and that would handle
mostly barbecued steak, chicken, etc. - basically steak, all could be
prepared out there. It would be simple but elegant.
Mr. Kobza: The total cost of construction on what is proposed?
Answer: Do not have actual figures but would be approximately $300,000.
We would take the $75,000 and put $225,000 to it. When utilities are
extended we must pay the contractor, then when the County is satisfied,
the County will reimburse us from our funds.
Mr. Kobza: Any additional utilities necessary because of this addition?
Answer: No, utilities were designed for a much larger facility than we
are proposing.
Mr. Kobza: Would you be open to a clause - you are here making
representations, we are relying on your reputation, good faith, etc.
Assuming that we were to provide the latitude to go in this direction and
8
accept with limitations some of the things you are asking us to do - would
you be willing to agree to a right of non assignment? In other words a
clause which prevented assignment. We are betting on you, if the hotel
sells or somebody else comes into the picture we ought to be able to say
that was theirs and not yours. Maybe Mr. Cronin has some comments on that
type of thing.
Mr. Cronin: It would be a matter of negotiation.
Mr. Kobza: We need some comfort level here that so we have additional
power of review.
Mr. McMackin: Speaking for the owners we certainly have no objection at
all . We do not intend to sell the hotel and we don't intend to assign
this to anyone other than ourselves.
Mr. Kobza: Would you be open to the limitation on the number of events
per week? You said probably not more than two per season. I am looking
for some confirmation of that.
Mr. Popper: The difficulty I have is that I don't know. To be honest with
you, I just don't know. You obviously have the right to say no. I cannot
tell you right now and I don't know how I could accommodate you. You have
the latitude to say no to me anytime.
Mr. Kobza: Let me tell you one of the things I am thinking about. When
you are in off season, it is daylight savings time, the park closes late -
8 o'clock.
Mr. Smith: The parking lot is closed by the Registry during the summer
months because it is later. During the winter months we close it at 6
o'clock.
Mr. Kobza: I am trying to dovetail our policies with what they are
requesting so in terms of their special events. . .
Mr. Popper: It would be after the park closed that the event would be
held. During the summer it would probably be nine o'clock. Chances are
we would probably come to you more during the winter months - convention
periods. We do not have the same requirements and needs in the summer
months that we do in the winter months. Most of our business in the
summer are State associations, people coming over for the weekend from the
East Coast. We do not have that same type of groups that require outside
events as we do in the winter.
Mr. Kobza: When would you schedule special events in relation to the park
hours? Are all special events after park hours?
Answer: I am proposing that we would identify those hours for you. We
would say the function is going to be between 7 and 9:30 or whatever it is
and you would have the right to say you can't do it then but you could
later or earlier.
Mr. Kobza: Let's say there is a wedding in the afternoon so under your
9
proposal would you be able to have that if the park was still open?
Answer: A small wedding, I would say yes, 75 people or so. Again, it is
the demand and whatever you feel appropriate.
Comment: Small group and you wanted a luncheon out there I don't see
where you would need the County's permission.
Answer: The only time we would look for County approval is in the evening
when we would serve liquor.
Comment: Could I, the public, hire the hall for a function through you.
Answer: Certainly. Now if you want to invite 200 or 250 of your best
friends and wanted lunch - I would be happy to.
Mr. Kobza: Would you charge what would be a hall charge - it is the
County's facility. Would be giving you a lease?
Comment: It is a Concession Agreement.
Mr. Kobza: Do you charge for using that facility. You have a convention,
you say it will be X number of dollars for use of the facility, so much
per waitperson, etc.
Mr. Popper: What we do we have set dinner prices, set reception prices,
set drink prices, set bar tender charges, we do not charge for the space
as long as you have people for your function. We would not charge a
lesser amount to a County function as opposed to a hotel function. We pay
20% of revenue to the County. I am sure you all understand business. We
have set prices, within those prices there are many organizations that we
give a break to. A lot of civic groups that meet at the hotel because of
the fact that we are a local entity. But basically I think we should have
one set of prices - it gets confusing when you start charging one price
for hotel guests and another for County residents.
Mr. Kobza: Is any of that air conditioned?
Answer: Open
Mrs Till : Mr. Cronin, would that just be for one year, nine years, or
what? I do not want to make a decision for twenty years from now.
Mr. Cronin: As I understand it it would take effect at the end of the
current Concession Agreement which is 1995 if all options are realized.
The ten year extension that Mr. Popper is proposing runs from 1995 to
2005.
Mr. Smith: We have a Concession Agreement right now with the hotel until
1993. There is a two year option renewal after that, it could or could
not be renewed. If both parties agree upon it it will go until 1995.
Actually they have a contract only really up until 1993.
Mr. Mueller: Who is Mr. Oakes?
10
Answer: He is Executive Vice President of the Chamber of Commerce.
Mr. Mueller: He wrote me, I imagine all of us, a letter and his name was
unfamiliar to me.
Mr. Clendenon: What does this facility cost? The tramway, boardwalk,
utilities, etc.
Answer: The County owns the boardwalk and I believe we paid for it.
Almost $800,000. Hotel built and paid for the parking lot, gatehouse, and
everything at that end.
Mr. Kobza: Would the staff have any input here, or the County Manager?
Mr. Cronin: No, the County Manager is waiting for PARAB's recommendation.
Public Discussion:
Mr. Gaetano Allegretta, 1643 Johnnycake Drive: Recommend approval . Events
at beach would help guests enjoy their stay and also increase revenue for
the County through concession fees and various taxes. Registry Resort is
very community minded and not looking for everything just for themselves.
I am also a part time deputy for Collier County and know the Resort is
very security minded. Extra deputies are employed at the hotel throughout
the year when needed. We are talking about alcohol on the beach and when
you go five miles down the road to a County beach you can drink anything
you want as long as it is not in a glass bottle. I know that we have had
more problems with people drinking alcohol on the County beaches than
elsewhere. It would be an economic benefit to the hotel and also to the
County.
Ms. Jeana Dawson, 27893 San Wan Court - also an employee of the hotel .
She feels this would be good for the hotel and their business. It would
give the opportunity to earn the "five star" award which would be a credit
to the community as well as the hotel .
Public discussion closed at 3:40 pm.
Mr. Kobza: Mr. Smith what is our policy of alcohol within our public
beaches? Consumption of alcohol on Vanderbilt Beach, Barefoot Beach, etc.
Mr. Smith: If it is a park facility, there is no alcohol allowed. If you
are on the beach and drinking alcohol we cannot stop you. However, in our
beach accesses and getting to the beach, we can stop you. Now Tigertail
is basically a public park. We can stop people from carrying alcohol to
the beach, Barefoot Beach, the same thing. Vanderbilt is a little
different because that is an access. We can stop them in our parking lot,
but once they get on the road we cannot stop them from going to the beach
with alcohol . Clam Pass there is no drinking in the parking lot or down
to the beach itself.
Mr. Kobza: What is the pleasure of the Board. Lets poll the Board
members and see if we can reach a consensus?
11
Mrs. Till : I feel this is well though out, and if the legal situations
are straightened out, I will vote for it.
Mr. Clendenon: I am in favor of it. My only concern is the change in the
Ordinance that our attorney mentioned and have him review our
recommendation before it goes to the BCC.
Ms. Thomas: This is very good because Florida is a tourist state. I am
for it.
Mr. Mueller: We spend a considerable amount of time drawing up an
ordinance, parts of which dealt with the use of alcoholic beverages on the
beach. I think the Commissioners adopted it almost verbatim. It seems to
me we are nulliying it and going against it to some extent. I am not
saying that I am absolutely dead set against it but that is an issue that
is bothering me. If someone can clarify that for me and show me where I
am wrong, I would most welcome them to do so. The second situation I
think we are establishing a very, very dangerous precedent. I mentioned
my experiences as far as Tigertail Beach was concerned. I find it
difficult to believe that we can allow this is some parts of the County
facilities, but to deny it in others. I question that very strongly. We
have meeting rooms at FMCP, why can't they drink there. I am not against
drinking, but when it is done in excess, there will be problems. There
will be 3,100 feet of 8 ft wide boardwalk and I can just envision the
results of people traversing that boardwalk. Another thing, what would
keep other condos, hotels, etc. from doing this same thinkg along the
entire stretch of beach for petitioning for the same thing? Can you
imagine what we would have in Collier County if ultimately we have alcohol
being served up and down our beaches? We would be much worse than Ft.
Lauderdale ever became. The liability factor is enormous. The Parks and
Recreation Department does not need a problem like that. I personally
would not vote for it.
Mr. Clendenon: I hear you loud and clear but Mr. Popper said this is all
on a case by case basis and we have the option to turn him down at any
time.
Mr. Mueller: I appreciate you pointing that out to me. Mr. Popper is a
very persuasive man. He is a tremendous salesman and I envy him. If
there were a bad experience, do you think the County would have the
fortitude to turn them down? I doubt it very much.
Mr. Clendenon: Wouldn't it be normal for these special events to come to
this Board first?
Answer: It would go to the County Manager or his designee which would
possibly be the Public Services Administrator.
Mr. Mueller: Do you think that after they invested $2 or 3 hundred
thousand dollars in a facility, and there were a problem, the County
Manager or whomever would say no you cannot do it any more?
Ms. Till : There are two ways of looking at this. Ultimately we are
skeptical about some of this.
12
Mr. Mueller: The Park and Recreation facilities, whatever it be, somehow
those places owned by the taxpayers should be places where we do not have
to consume alcohol beverages. It is such a beautiful place, Clam Pass,
that it just seems too bad that this too has to be a place where we have
to consume alcoholic beverages. They will turn this into a zoo, mark my
words. I know how people conduct themselves at the hotels on Marco when
going overboard on drinking and the same thing will happen. The Registry
is a reputable place but it can happen anywhere; but why allow it to
happen?
Public Hearing is closed and we are going to resolve this among the Board.
Mr. Kobza: This is probably one of the most difficult decisions I have
faced on this Board. It is a fairly sophisticated undertaking and one not
without its risks. I think that when we have an opportunity and can do
so in a fashion that is safe to the County that can provide services to
the County within our parks, we should try to do that. And also as it
relates to local businesses, we do have an economic interest here in
employing people, and keeping people employed, and we are very much a
tourist dominated economy. I think we need to recognize that. On the
other hand, knowing this property very well , and it's a beautiful area,
and I enjoy it a lot. Anything that would endanger the enjoyability of
that area by the public I am very sensitive to; including the fact that
we would mix the general public at large with the consumption of alcohol
at that facility. I have a lot of trepidation about that particular
issue, and am somewhat on the same page as Gil on that issue. However, I
think I have a suggestion for the Board - I am also concerned about the
other issues that were the subject of my questions. What I would be in
favor of would be a proposal that would allow the project to go forward.
I think the economic issues are fairly detailed any may be beyond what we
can resolve ourselves. We have a major expenditure of funds, and we have
to rely upon the County Manager to make sure the County is protected and
that we would get our share in the operations is what I am basically
trying to say. I would be in support of the project subject to
stipulations that there be a whole payment of all costs associated with
construction permitting, security, and I would be absolutely definite, I
would not want to see "adequate security" in the agreement. I would say a
certain number of guards per a certain number of people. That all
transportation issues were resolved, and again I would not say "adequate
transportation", I would say a certain number of trams available
independent of what the public tram system might be, and a coordination of
that. I might include a probationary period, I would definitely include a
no assignment provision or limited rights to assignment because we are
dealing with these people and not with somebody else at this point. I
would want adequate bonding for the County in terms of liability because
it's important that we not just have a right to law suit. I want to know
that if something happens we have cash or something to draw against and
then we will litigate it. In addition, I think the alcohol is the hardest
issue. I would support, with those stipulations. As related to alcohol I
think initially what I would approach is this, I would not allow the
service of alcohol during park hours when the public is using the park. I
would not allow the intermix of hotel and public use of alcohol during
park hours. After that, I would do it on a case by case basis, and try to
put definition as to what counts a default in the Agreement. It is not
13
merely that there could be a accident, but if people are excessive and
rowdy, or if there is any adverse consequence, I want to know that it is
monitored and that we have the right to cut that program off tomorrow.
That would provide a lot of incentive for the Registry and Owners to make
sure they are policing that program. I would also want to make sure that
the security doesn't allow people from outside the special events into it
- sometimes people come in by boat, or they walk the beach, although Clam
Pass is rather removed at both ends. I do not want to mix those things.
I think people of the County are going to be very sensitive about the
alcohol issue. I can support the program but want some very severe
limitations on the alcohol .
Mr. Clendenon: I see these special events, which are distinctively
separate from the operation of the park, but during these special events
the operation is an extension of the Registry. It is their operation,
they are responsible, they provide security and transportation - you would
almost have to say I want one guard for every ten people. Put definite
numbers on.
Mr. Kobza: That is what I am saying exactly. It is not enough to say
adequate.
Mr. Clendenon: You mentioned the separation of the public transportation
as opposed to the special event. Those two occasions will never occur at
the same time.
Mr. Kobza: Well , a wedding in the afternoon, 300 people and guests come
in and use the boardwalk. They have to use the trams, what about the
public that is sitting there? You have to have the ability to get them
both to the beach. I am trying to think this through and I want to know
that a provision is being made. Basically, what this would mean - an
afternoon wedding, no alcohol , the beach is open. The beach is open, no
alcohol . The beach is closed, on a limited basis, given a lot of
conditions, a lot of security, and review and approval by the County - and
I might even ask them to pay for having a County representative available,
like a Park Ranger, to make sure they are in compliance.
Mr. Mueller: I still think we would be making a terrible mistake to begin
to allow a potential explosive exception to our ordinances as far as the
consumption of alcoholic beverages on public property is concerned. That
could open up a Pandora's box of problems that would be almost
unimaginable. I really see very little that the taxpayers could gain
from this. There are other ways of gaining revenue, much simpler, better,
and less dangerous than to think this is going to benefit the County
financially to any appreciable degree. It will not at all compensate for
the potential problems that are going to result in granting this
exception.
Mr. Mueller: Would someone like to take a stab at making a motion?
Ms. Till : I think he is asking for a 10 year extension, extend deck to
seat 200 people, approx. 3,000 sq. ft. , ask permission on an event to
event basis to be able to serve alcohol beverages on the deck. Think that
it is.
14
Mr. Kobza: In off park hours.
Ms Till : After park hours.
Mr. Kobza: Is that a motion?
Ms. Till : Yes, I will make that in the form of a motion.
Mr. Kobza: OK. I am going to ask you to include my stipulations.
Ms. Till : Yes. I want to include that stipulation. No alcoholic
beverages during park hours, when the parks are open.
Mr. Kobza: How about the other stipulations?
Ms. Till : Oh,
Mr. Kobza: Well , not that you have to memorize them - specific security,
specific transportation provisions, no assignment clauses, full payment of
all costs associated with construction, and permitting, it is the
responsibility of the condo association and the Registry, bonding to the
County.
Specific provision on security - in other words an officer per designated
number of people, specific provision on transportation - in other words
how that relates to the existing tram system up there. No assignment
clause and I think that we agreed a provision that no alcohol be served
during park hours, the bonding, that there be a cap line posted in favor
of the County for the purposes of indemnification and hold harmless for
any potential liability including the cost of defense that arises out of
the operation of the facility. When I say facility I mean the expanded
facility. Did I leave anything out? So anyway those are the stipulations
that I came up with, so if your motion for approval with the 10 year
extension, subject to the stipulations? OK so that is the recommendation
to the County Manager's office and the County Board.
Ms. Till : Say, Yes?
Mr. Kobza: Is that your recommendation?
Ms. Till : Yes.
Mr. Kobza: The motion is recommendation to the County Manager's office
and the County Board of a 10 year extension of the concession agreement
subject to the listed stipulations.
Mr. Clendenon: May I suggest we add one additional stipulation is that
the Ordinance be changed accordingly?
Mr. Kobza: It is your motion Mrs. Till . Is that acceptable to you?
Mrs. Till : All right.
Mr. Kobza: OK and that the ordinance regulating the service of alcohol at
County facilities be amended accordingly.
Mr. Clendenon: Seconded the Motion.
Mr. Kobza: OK we have a motion and a second on the floor. Any further
discussion on the motion and subject? That motion passes with 4/1 -
negative vote by Mr. Mueller.
Mr. Mueller: when will this be presented to BCC?
P, Mr. Smith: When the Registry and AUO decide they are ready.
15
9
5 minute recess
B. Boat Launch Golden Gate Canal Update:
Mr. Murdo Smith: I will give you an update of what our Department is
doing and locations that we have looked at. It would come back to you
people again for your review before any decisions were made. Then Tom
Burgess, representing Southern Bass Anglers as well as 4 or 5 other Bass
Clubs here in Collier County, will speak. This group has requested a boat
launch in the Golden Gate Canal . (A map showing locations was shown)
There is a report from the Real Property Department in your packet showing
the survey completed by them. In the Growth Management Plan it addressed
a fresh water boat lane or ramp in the Golden Gate area. We looked at
different areas where South Florida Water Management currently has
existing boat ramps they use to test the waters, etc. in the canals.
These are boat ramps that are basically limerock, stone, or gravel and are
not maintained all that well . The Bass Club has requested that we look
into the possibility of getting some type of launch for them. Staff
looked at a possible location off 58th Street SW, which is just off the
Parkway. There are two launch areas by the bridge on Golden Gate Parkway,
one on the north and one on the south side. There is another area along
a frontage road on the east side of 951 . There is no current boat launch
area there, but the area is quite secluded with no homes nearby, it is
vacant, and the property may be relatively inexpensive to purchase. Real
Property is checking on this. We will probably favor the frontage road
along the east side of 951, which is near 39th Street. These will be
strictly fresh water ramps, the canal goes into Lake Sapphire. The Growth
Management Plan has estimated $200,000 per lane per boat launch facility
which would include parking, restroom facilities, fish cleaning tables,
lights, etc. There are approximately 200 or 300 members in the various
fishing clubs. Staff will return at another PARAB meeting to advise
Staff's recommendation and approval to go before the BCC.
C. Amendment to Food & Beverage Contract, Tigertail Beach
Cool Concessions has requested a reduction in their remittance to the
County because of conditions at Tigertail Beach. Mr. Smith has drafted an
Amendment to the Food and Beverage Concession Agreement and submitted it
to the County Attorney's office for review. Staff has met with the
Concessionaire and negotiated a reduction agreeable to Staff and to the
Concessionaire. The Amendment states the Concessionaire will pay 15.5%
gross or $650/month whichever is greater. Their last percentage was
approximately 22% or $900/month.
Mr. Tod Herbst, representing Cool Concessions, Inc. , was present to answer
questions.
Staff's recommendation is that we approve this Amendment, providing the
County Attorney approves it also.
A discussion was held regarding whose responsibilty it was to clean the
restrooms. Since the inception of Concessionaire Agreements in 1982, it
has been the responsibility of the Concessionaire.
16
MOTION by Mr. Gil Mueller: WE accept the recommendation of Staff and the
request of the Concessionaire for a modification of the Concession
Agreement.
Seconded by Ms. Geneva Till , motion passed 5-0 vote.
D. UPDATE ON MANAGEMENT PLAN:
Mr. Jeff Moore, Coastal Engineering, made a presentation of the Lely
Barefoot Beach Preserve Management Plan. He would like PARAB to set some
schedules for a workshop, and has a 10 page outline of what process/steps
to take. The Land Management Plan is a vehicle that defines how the park
is used. Staff will have to go through this process every 5 years
throughout the life of our lease with the State. All of the vegetation
and different habitats have been identified. This is a good habitat for
gopher tortoises and a great deal of bird life. Six to twelve endangered
species of plants have been identified and an overlay of different types
of jurisdictional areas done on maps. The Coastal Control Line, as well
as an existing road, goes behind the dune itself. Brazilian Pepper and
Australian Pine are a big nuisance at the park. A photo was presented
depicting the front of the dune, the dune itself, and in back of the dune.
Coastal Engineering is the firm that did the County work for the bath
house, etc. , and have been involved with the area for about two years.
Mr. Smith commented that the Plan submitted to the State during talks for
the Management Agreement was a very passive area. We have an agreement
with the State to submit the Land Management Plan for approval . Barefoot
Beach Preserve is the most pristine beach in Collier County. The entire
goal of the Management Plan is to limit development there. The site
itself is about 1 mile long, north to south. PARAB may wish to set
standards and establish public contact the week of October 7, 1991 . The
Draft needs to be submitted to the State by the end of October. A public
meeting has been planned for October 16, 2:00 pm at the Golden Gate
Community Park. Ms. Geneva Till requested a letter of reminder be sent to
all PARAB members.
E. NSA Contract:
This is a new agreement for scorekeeper services, to be used for all our
softball , basketball , and Co-ed leagues throughout the County. It will be
a one year contract with an association to perform all those functions.
There is a fee schedule per game. We have a similar agreement with
umpires. Staff is convinced that this is the best route to go. It will
probably save the County some time, because we won't be calling the
Scorekeepers all the time. Staff recommends approval , so the subject can
go before the BCC. This has been approved by the County Attorney. Mr.
Gil Mueller motioned to approve the Naples Scorekeepers Association (NSA)
Contract as presented, so Mr. Murdo Smith can go before the BCC with it.
Ms. Cherryle Thomas seconded, and with no further discussion the motion
passed unanimously with a 5-0 vote.
F. School Bus Agreement:
This is a School Bus Agreement that we've had for numerous years. This is
an update with the School Board for busing our Summer Camp kids and After
17
School Program kids to different areas - the beach, bowling, and so
forth. Mr. Gil Mueller commented that he thinks it's a good idea. Last
year we had 3 or 4 a week, this year we cut it back to about two. Staff
recommended approval so it can go before the BCC. Ms. Cherryle Thomas
motioned to recommend to the BCC to approve the School Bussing Agreement
as stated by Murdo Smith today. Mr. William Clendenon seconded, and with
no further discussion, the motion passed with a 5-0 vote.
IV. REQUESTS FOR DISCUSSION (continued) :
Chairman Kobza commented that since the time for the meeting was running
out, he wanted to economize on the time for the remaining issues.
A. Productivity Report Discussion Scheduling:
Chairman Kobza requested an item from the Productivity Report be on each
PARAB Agenda to address one at a time. Mr. Murdo Smith will write a
memorandum to the County Manager to ask the BCC what direction to take
regarding beach issues - parking, fees, etc. Chairman Kobza commented
that he would like clear direction from the BCC or from the County
Manager's office by the next regular meeting, October 23, telling PARAB
what they want done. PARAB does not want to do something that BCC has
other plans for. Mr. William Clendenon asked for a copy of the
Productivity Report. PARAB decided to put "User Fees" as they relate to
beach parking on the Agenda for October 23, 1991, and hopefully we will
have BCC direction by then.
B. Vanderbilt Beach Turnaround:
No discussion.
C. Tigertail Beach Clean-up:
Mr. William Clendenon asked staff if they were aware that they can use
convicted prisoners from the county jail for this type of work. The
Department is presently using these people on weekends to do the raking of
the beach. Mr. Gary Franco clarified that they are not convicted felons,
but Community Service workers. Mr. Clendenon commented that Judges assign
people to so many weekends in jail ; they are convicted and they can be
forced to work. All that staff has to do is get in touch with the Jail
Administrator. People in the County Jail awaiting trial can not be
worked. These people are basically laborers, and one cannot rely on them
to provide any particular skills. These people do not wear jail uniforms
but they wear mustard colored work clothes.
D. Budget Issues:
Mr. Murdo Smith updated PARAB. Basically the BCC approved the swimming
pool , the multipurpose building, the football/soccer field lighting for
Golden Gate, North Naples and Immokalee. We received approval for
improvements at the gymnasium in Immokalee and Conklin Point Boat Ramp.
In reference to the recommended cuts by the County Manager, the BCC did
not agree with the cuts and left them in the Budget. The staff was also
to be cut at the Community Centers and the Multipurpose Building, but the
18
BCC left that in the Budget. Basically, we did very well this year. The
Department submitted a good operating budget, kept it under the
percentage, and the BCC adopted it. We did loose a Park Ranger position.
The designated safe swimming area for Tigertial is on-going with Coastal
Engineering right now. New sod, plants, and sprinkler system will be
installed at Tigertail Beach. The sign at the front entrance to Tigertail
Beach will be dressed up. At Tommie Barfield, improvements to the
softball facility have already been started. We're looking at possibly
landscaping around the tennis courts where they put bicycles, to buffer
that area from the road. The Frank E. Mackle Community Park dividing
wall : At one of the Budget meetings Murdo brought up the subject of the
dividing wall ; the County Manager and Commissioner Shanahan discussed the
possibility of putting it in now as we still have a contract with the
vendor and the time to do it. Bill Flynn from Compliance Services
obtained a price to install the dividing wall ; however, he wanted to check
with the architects to see if it's structurally sound. We still have a
contract. The Community Center at Veteran's Park is estimated to be
opened around the middle of November. Chairman Kobza requested that staff
schedule PARAB's November meeting at the Veterans Park Community Center,
if it's completed in time.
VI. REPORTS/UPDATES:
A. Bonita Beach Park:
Mr. Murdo Smith mentioned that the bath house at Barefoot Beach is out for
bid. Mr. Gil Mueller suggested that we'll probably have the bids on that
at the next regular meeting.
B. Recycling:
No discussion.
C. Tigertail Vegetation:
Previously discussed.
D. 951 Boat Ramp Parking:
Still investigating additional property there.
E. Pools:
Staff hasn't been informed that it's been cut
F. Vanderbilt Beach Accesses & Parking:
Mr. Smith commented that he would like to speak with Mr. Kobza further
about the landscaping at Vanderbilt Beach Access. He has a few ideas.
G. Community Centers:
Previously Addressed. They will probably all be opening in November
sometime.
19
H. Frank E. Mackle Jr. Park Building Expansion:
Still on-going. The punch list is being done. One inspection had 30 some
items, the next list had 20, the next list they'll have 10, and hopefully
we can get them all corrected this time. Mr. Smith said that the
Contractor performed very poorly on the initial punch list. Mr. Gil
Mueller agreed. Mr. Bill Flynn, is well aware of it.
I. Conklin Point Boat Ramp:
This item pulled from the BCC Agenda by the County Managers office, so
design approval was not received. Negotiations with Westinghouse are
continuing.
J. Listing of Donated Property:
Nothing yet. It's not a top priority for the Real Property Department.
Murdo Smith will write another memo, and Mr. Gil Mueller requested to add
to that memo that it was requested nine months ago.
K. Immokalee Child Care Center:
Staff doesn't think that they'll be putting it in there. They almost
passed their time, because there was some problems with zoning as far as
Real Property was concerned. It was mentioned to us that there were no
concerns with zoning, and then for some reason, some were brought up.
Staff hasn't heard from Mr. Lawson in quite some time. Ms. Cherryle
Thomas commented that they went in connection with another group, now
Stepping Stones will get Federal Government Money.
L. Clam Pass Park:
Previously discussed.
VIII. NEW BUSINESS:
None.
VI. Adjournment:
Mr. William Clendenon motioned to adjourn the meeting at 5:45 p.m. Ms.
Cherryle Thomas seconded, and the motion passed with a 5-0 vote.
6183
20
MINUTES
PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY � ,
Golden Gate Community Park, Administr A-6"� 4
NAPLES, FLORIDA
SEPTEMBR 25, 1990
PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman
Mr. Gil Mueller, Vice Chairman
Ms. Cherryle Thomas (Arrived at 2:30 p.m.)
Ms. Geneva Till
Mr. William Clendenon
ALSO PRESENT: Mr. Murdo Smith, Acting Department Director
Ms. Mary Ellen Donner, Recreation Superintendent
Mr. Gary Franco, Parks Superintendent
I. Call to Order: The meeting was called to order at 2:05 p.m.
II. Pledge of Allegiance to the Flaq:
III. Approval of Minutes: Mr. Gil Mueller asked if the $30.00 facility usage
fee was the same amount for both indoor and outdoor facility usage. Ms.
Mary Ellen Donner replied that it is. Approval of the August 28, 1991
Minutes as presented. Motioned by Mr. William Clendenon, seconded by Ms.
Geneva Till , passed 4-0.
IV. Request For Discussion:
Chairman Kobza requested that PARAB put Productivity Report Discussion
Scheduling and Vanderbilt Beach Turnaround on the agenda for discussion.
Mr. William Clendenon requested that PARAB add the subject of Tigertail
Beach Clean-up to the agenda. Mr. Gil Mueller requested to discuss Budget
issues.
V. New Business/Presentations:
A. Registry Resort Hotel Presentation:
Mr. F. Joseph Mc Mackin III, representing the owners of the Registry
Resort Hotel turned the presentation over to Mr. Charles Popper, General
Manager of the Registry Resort Hotel to express the owners views. This
Hotel can be thought of as a non-residential Condominium form of
ownership. Each individual room has a separate owner. This Hotel has
been here for 2-1/2 years, and have operated the beach Concession since
1988. The present contract will expire in March of 1993. They pay half
of all the tram drivers salaries. In the past year, 200,014 people went
to Clam Pass beach, 62% of them local the remainder were guests of the
hotel and tourists. As part of the Agreement they maintain, clean, handle
equipment rental , and maintain the parking lot areas. The Registry pays
the County 20% or last year $27,241 .00, of their profits. In a nationwide
1
study of 650 beaches, Clam Pass was #11 on the list of the best of quality
beaches as far as clean sand, water, etc. The Hotel has $150,000 in
escrow towards utilities. The AU0 put up $75,000 towards expansion.
Hopefully the work will start in November of 1991. Naples Cay Utilities
will run along the beach. The other half of the arrangement is enlarging
utilities. The Hotel presented a drawing of their future plans consisting
of an enlarged deck, expansion of the Men's and Lady's bathrooms, a
storage area, and a Kitchen so they will be able to serve lunch. A
possible menu was passed out for possible consideration. No prices were
listed, because that would have to be negotiated with the County. They've
held Easter Sunrise service on the beach, and have plans for local events,
special functions and banquets with County approval . The Hotel doesn't
have a beach or golf facility. They have lost approximately $117,00 of
revenue just by not being able to operate those sorts of facilities.
Because of this, they can not compete with the Beach Club, the Ritz
Carlton, etc. They have lost $3-750,000. People spend $60 to $80 a night
for banquets. If their plans are approved, the hotel could fill 47 entry
level positions. They are looking for 3 things. (1) Approval by PARAB &
the BCC to have a 10 year extension of the Construction Agreement for
which that have offered to pay the County $150,000, enabling the Hotel to
plan ahead 5-7 years ongoing. (2) Decking to seat 100 people and serve
food there. (3) Permission on an event by event basis to serve alcohol .
The Hotel would have security, clean-up crews, and the County would
receive 20% of the gross revenue. The Registry Resort Hotel has had a
rough start with the people of the community. They are very anxious to be
a good neighbor. If this is approved it would be a great source of
enjoyment for the people of the community and would be able to compete
with other Hotels. This is a win win situation for both the County and
the Registry Resort Hotel . (At this time the floor was opened for
questions) Ms. Geneva Till : Will giving permission to the Registry
influence other Parks and Recreation Facilities? Mr. Charles Popper
replied that there are a number of cases in which this type of arrangement
has taken place, to name a few the Grand Canyon Sqakee Lodge, in Hawaii ,
and the Golden Gate Community Center was also presented as an example.
They will not have functions every night. During season the plan to have
functions 1 to 2 time a week at the most. 20% of the gross revenue
includes anything that is sold out there. Mr. Dennis Cronin, Asst. County
Attorney, was present to answer any legal questions. The ordinance would
have to be amended. Special events would be scheduled only when the park
is closed to the general public. The park would not be closed for a
Registry function. The Registry would be the caterers to all events,
functions, etc. Most hotels book events, banquets, etc. 4 to 6 years
ahead. They have nothing to bargain other then they are a first class
hotel . The ten year extension will be at sticky point to the County
Commission. Mr. Popper requested PARAB's views on the extension. Ms.
Cherryle Thomas wanted to know if this is working in other area of Florida
by a Hotel on the beach. The owners of the Hotel will pay for the
expansion and then it will be the property of the County. PARAB was
concerned with the president of establishing the use of alcoholic
beverages on County property. Asst. County Attorney, Mr. Dennis Cronin,
commented that PARAB is in a safe legal position. Mr. Gil Mueller
requested a copy of the existing ordinance. Mr. Gil Mueller does not want
to establish a precedent for allowing alcohol at other Collier facilities.
Mr. Charles Popper would attend the functions because they have much at
2
stake to make it work. Chairman Kobza commented that this is a unique.
situation and will put us in new waters. The mechanics of it is that this
is a different type of facility than the Golden Gate Community Center's
controlled environment. The boardwalk is 6/10 of a mile long. Mr. Popper
would have to provide additional terms for these special events and the
hotel would pay for the services of the terms. The deck will be 10 feet
of the ground and party crashers would have a tough time. Mr. Popper
suggested using trams to transport to and from the special functions, not
allowing foot traffic. The trams will provide the Hotel with better
control to spot drunks or problem people. The number of trams would be
contingent on the number of people at each event. There would be no
alcohol served at lunch time, only on a case by case basis. Mr. Charles
Popper's responsibility would be to provide adequate security. Presumably
and agreement could be made on the number of people involved, security,
especially within the event, etc. Liability Concerns: Alcohol on a
public facility, and accident, and or potential . A certificate of
insurance would have to be provided and contracts would have to be signed
to remove the county from liability. Defense language could be added to
existing language within the agreement. Mr. Mc Mackin recited the language
from an existing contract. The hotel is debt free, no leans, and these
two large entities that would be willing to post a Cash Bond. Chairman
Kobza would like a bond and a contract as previously stated. They have
already posted $200,000 to extend the Utility lines. The Escrow Agreement
provides $75,000.00 to Utilities plus $75,000 to Construction of the
third pod. No architectural renderings yet, just drawings. The total
amount of footage to be added is estimated to be about 3,000 square, the
decking in the drawing depicts roughly a square. The Registry Resort
Hotel is looking for a facility that would take care of 250 people. All
of the food would be prepared right there. Total cost of construction is
estimated to be $300,000. The Registry would be responsible for all
permitting, construction, etc. Right of Reassignment: Mr. Dennis Cronin
stated that if the County and the Registry is willing to provide it. They
don't intend to sell the hotel and don't intend to resign it. The hours
at Clam Pass are dawn (8:00 a.m.) until dusk (8:30 p.m.) in Summer, 8:00
a.m. until 6:00 p.m. in Winter. The Registry Resort Hotel would ask for
approval on event by event basis, however more for Winter periods not as
much in the Summer. All special events would be identified for the County
and the County will have the right to set times, etc. Small Weddings
could be provided for about 75 to 100 people. The only time County
approval would be needed/requested, would be in the evenings for after the
Park is closed. The County would have a new Concession agreement. The
restaurant would have set prices for dinner, drinks, bartenders, etc.
providing the County provides the space. It would be and open air type of
facility. The 10 year extension would take effect from 1995-2005. Mr.
Murdo Smith stated that presently the County has a contract with the
Registry Resort Hotel up until 1993 and then there is a two year option
which would take it to 1995. Mr. Edward J. Oats, Jr. , Executive Vice
President, 3620 Tamiami Trail North, Naples, Florida, 33940 wrote PARAB a
letter. Staff did not receive a copy of this letter for the records.
Chairman Kobza commented that he received five letters, and several
telephone calls on this matter. Mr. Murdo Smith stated that the County
owns the boardwalk and it's cost was almost $800,000. Mr. Mc Mackin
stated that the Registry paid for everything else at both ends of the
boardwalk. Mr. Dennis Cronin stated that Ms. Martha Skinner, Acting
3
Public Services Administrator and Mr. Neil Dorrill , County Manager are
waiting for PARAB's recommendation. (At this time the floor was opened
for public discussion) Mr. Gaetano Allegretta, of 163 Johnnycake Drive
recommends that PARAB approve the Registry's proposal/request otherwise
the community would all loose. Mr. Allegretta also commented that the
Registry is very community minded. The Registry provides ice sculptures,
etc. that various members of the Community view. He is also a part time
Deputy for the County and also works at the Registry and would have any
security needed. He also stated that people can drink anything they want
at the beach, as long as it is not in a glass bottle. As a private
citizen, he would like to see the economic wealth. Ms. Jeana Dawson, of
17893 San Wan Court stated that she is also an employee of the hotel . She
feels this is good for their employment and their business. (Public
discussion was closed at 3:40 p.m.) If it is a park facility, no alcohol
is allowed and people can be stopped from carrying it through County
Parks, but the County can no stop them on the beach itself. Board
Discussion: Ms. Geneva Till feels this has been all thought out, and is
in favor with the legal constraints. Mr. William Clendenon is in favor
with a change in the ordinance an have an Attorney review with the board
before it goes to the BCC. Ms. Cherryle Thomas commented it is good for
tourism and is for it. Mr. Gil Mueller was against it for the following
reasons. (1) The Parks and Recreation Department spent a lot of time on
the ordinance and it bothers him that we are in effect nullifying it. (2)
He thinks it is establishing a dangerous precedent. He is not against
drinking, but when done in excess, there will be problems. (3) He
questions what would keep other Condos, Hotels, etc. from doing the same
thing. (4) He questions the economic liabilities and would personally
not vote for it. Mr. William Clendenon stated that this is all on a case
by case basis it is not on a blank check and the Parks and Recreation
would have the opportunity to turn it down. Requests would go to the
County Manager or his designee. Ms. Geneva Till commented that the BCC
should know there is two ways of looking at this. 3:50 p.m. Mr. Gil
Mueller is afraid of the effects of allowing alcohol in the park.
Chairman Kobza commented that this is probably one of the harder issues
that he's faced during his term on the board. For a lot of reasons, he
thinks its a fairly sophisticated undertaking, and it's not without it's
risks. For that reason he view's it as being a fairly difficult issue.
He thinks that when we have an opportunity and can do so in a fashion that
is safe to the County in which services to the County within our parks, we
should try to do that. Also, as it relates to local businesses, we do
have an economic interest here in employing people, and keeping people
employed, and we are very much a tourist dominated economy, and thinks we
need to recognize that. On the other hand, knowing this property very
well , and it's a beautiful area, and anything that would endanger the
enjoyability of that area by the general public at large with the
consumption of alcohol at that facility. Chairman Kobza also went on to
comment that he has a lot of trepidation about that particular issue. So,
what he would be in favor of, would be a proposal that would allow this
project to go forward, but thinks that the economic issues are fairly
detailed and may be beyond what we can resolve ourselves. We've got a
major expenditure of funds, and we have to rely upon the County Manager to
make sure the County is projected, that we would get our share in the
operations. He'd be in support of the project, subject to stipulations
that there be a whole payment of all costs associated with construction
4
permitting, security, and he wouldn't want to see in the agreement
"adequate security" . He would say "a certain number per the number of
people", that would be important, that all transportation issues were
resolved, and he would say in the agreement "there be a certain number of
trams available independent of what the public tram system might be, and a
coordination of that". He might include in the agreement a probationary
period, he would defiantly include a "no assignment" provision or limited
rights to assignment because we're dealing with these people and not with
somebody else at this point, he would want adequate bonding for the County
in terms of liability because it's important that we not just have a right
to a law suit he wants to know that if something happens that we've got
something to draw against and then we'll litigate it. In addition to
that, he thinks the hardest issue is the alcohol issue. So, he would
support with those stipulations. As related to alcohol , he thinks what he
at least initially would approach is not to allow the service of alcohol
during park hours when the public is utilizing the park or whenever our
parks are open he wouldn't allow the alcohol program whatsoever because
he doesn't want to intermix the hotel and public use of alcohol at that
time. After that, he would do on a case by case basis with approval
required, and somehow he would try to put definition to what constitutes a
default in the agreement. In other words, it's not merely that there be
an accident, but if people are excessive and rowdy, or there's any adverse
consequence, I want to know that's monitored and that we have the right to
cut that program off tomorrow, or just like that. That would provide a
lot of incentive for the Registry and the Owners to make sure that they're
policing that program. I 'd also want to make sure that the security
doesn't allow people from a special event basis from outside the special
events into it. A lot of times people come in by boat, or they walk the
beach and that kind of thing although Clam Pass is kind of removed at each
end. Chairman Kobza thinks the people of this County are going to be real
real sensitive about the alcohol issue, and he can support the program but
wants very severe limitations on the alcohol . He would have them pay to
have a County Representative on site to make sure they are in compliance.
After Chairman Kobza voiced his opinion, Mr. Gil Mueller commented that he
is still no in agreement for the consumption of alcohol on public
property. Mr. Gil Mueller thinks that be would be making a terrible
mistake to begin to allow a potentially explosive exception to our
ordinances. As far as the consumption of alcoholic beverages on public
property is concerned. That could open up a ponderous box of problems
that would be almost unimaginable, and he could really see very little
that the taxpayers could gain from this. He feels there are other ways of
gaining revenue, much simpler, better, and less dangerous ways than to
think that this is going to benefit the County financially to any
appreciable degree. He doesn't think that what we're going to get for it,
is at all going to compensate for the potential problems that are going to
result in granting this exception. Ms. Geneva Till motioned to recommend
to the Board of County Commissioners and the Manager's office to approve
the 10 year extension of the Concession Agreement subject to the
stipulations of: to increase the decking to approximately 3,000 square
feet to seat 200 people, and permission on an event to event basis to be
able to serve alcohol after park hours, and also to include Chairman
Kobza's stipulations (specific provisions on security, specific provisions
on transportation, no-assignment clauses, full payment of all costs
associated with construction and permitting, that it' s the responsibility
5
of the Condo Association and the Registry, that there be a cash bond
posted in favor of the County for purposes of indemnification and
hold-harmless for any potential liability including the cost of defense
that arises out of the operation of the expanded facility, and a provision
that no alcohol be served during park hours, and that the ordinance
regulating the service of alcohol at County facilities be amended
accordingly) . Mr. William Clendenon seconded, and the motion passed with
4 affirmative votes and 1 negative by Mr. Mueller.
B. Boat Launch Golden Gate Canal Update:
Mr. Tom Burches of the Bass Club of Naples gave a presentation. The
Growth Management Plan addresses having a fresh water boat lane or ramp in
the Golden Gate area. South Florida Water Management Currently has
existing boat ramps they use to test the waters, etc. in the canals.
These are boat ramps that are basically limerock, stone, or gravel and
they are not maintained all that well . The Bass Association has requested
that we look into the possibility of getting some type of launch for them.
Staff looked at a possible location of 58th. Street S.W. which is just off
of the Parkway by the Church. There's two launch area over by the bridge
on the Golden Gate Parkway, one on the North side and one on the South
side. There was another area that Staff was looking at along a frontage
road over on the East side of 951 . There's no current Boat Launch area
there, but we are looking at that area because it's pretty well secluded
there's no homes around it, it's vacant, and the property may be
relatively inexpensive if we do not own this. The Real Property
Department is checking to see if we own that. These are all pretty good
sites, but what we would probably lean to if we can is the frontage road
along the east side of 951 which is 39th street. The weirs prohibit
people from Gulf access. These will be strictly fresh water, it goes into
Lake Sapphire. Staff would like to pick the best site for the County as
well as the Bass Association. The Growth Management Plan estimated
$2000,000 per lane per boat launch facility. Now that would include
parking, restroom facilities, fish cleaning tables, lights, etc. There
are about 30 people in the Southern Club, and around 60 in the Collier
County Club, and a total of about 200 or 300 people. Staff will come back
at some other PARAB meeting to advise what Staff's recommendation is and
will be asking for PARAB's approval to go before the BCC.
C. Amendment to Food & Beverage Contract, Tigertail Beach:
Staff received a letter from Cool Concessions Inc. to operate the Food and
Beverage Concession at Tigertail Beach. Requested was a reduction in
their remittance to the County because of some conditions and so forth at
Tigertail Beach. Mr. Murdo Smith drafted an Amendment to the Food and
Beverage Concession Agreement and has gone to the County Attorney's office
for their review. Staff has met with the Concessionaire and prices, etc.
were discussed, and that is the price that is under consideration on page
2-4 on the Draft Amendment. It states that the Food and Beverage
Concession will pay 15.5% gross or $650.00 per month whichever is greater.
Their last percentage were approximately 22% and $900.00 per month. Mr.
Tod Herbst, of 900 South Collier Court, Marco Island, Florida, 33937, was
present to answer any questions PARAB might have had. Staff's
recommendation is that PARAB approve this agreement as amended, the only
thing would that the County Attorney who is reviewing it approve it also.
Mr. Gil Mueller questioned who's responsibility it was to keep the
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restroom facilities clean, and it was of his opinion that The Food
Concessionaire should not be doing it, that the Parks and Recreation
Department should be doing it. Mr. Gil Mueller motioned to accept the
recommendation of Mr. Smith, and the request of the Concessionaire for a
modification of the Concession Agreement. Ms. Geneva Till seconded, and
with no further discussion, the motion passed with a 4-0 vote.
D. Update on Management Plan:
Mr. Jeff Moore of Coastal Engineering made a presentation of the Lely
Barefoot Beach Preserve. Jeff has been working 2-1/2 weeks on the
project. He is not in the process of database mapping site work, not yet
started planning. Jeff would like PARAB to set up some schedules for a
Workshop. He has a 10 page outline of what process/steps to take. The
Land Management Plan is a vehicle that defines how the park is used. It
is a function of the plan. Staff will have to go through this process
every 5 years throughout the life of our lease. Jeff stated that they
have identified all types of vegetation and different habitats and has
been mapped out. This is a very good habitat for gofer tortoise, and a
lot of bird life. They have found 6-12 endangered species of plants, and
identified and overlaid the different types of jurisdictional areas. The
Coastal Control Line goes behind the dune itself, and an existing road
goes behind the dune. Brazilian Pepper and Australian Pine are a bid
nuisance at the park. Jeff presented photo's depicting the front of the
dune, the dune itself, and behind the dune. Australian Pine trees have no
substantial root system and therefore have no capability to hold the dune
together. Australians and Braz. Pepper will wipe the dunes out, because
they are very aggressive. Coastal Engineering is the firm that did the
County work, bath house, etc. They have been involved for about two
years. The State Agencies, Department of Community Affairs has no
concerns there, the Department of Florida State to date has no historical
or archeoligal findings on record for that site. Mr. Murdo Smith
commented that the plan submitted to the state during talks for the
Management agreement was a very passive area. We have an agreement with
them to submit the Land Management Plan for approval . No boardwalk has
been planned. Barefoot Beach Preserve is a most pristine beach we have in
Collier County. The whole goal of the Management Plan is to very limited
development there. Vanderbilt is about 1-2 miles away. The site itself
is about 1 mile long north to south. The goal of the State of Florida, is
to protect a paramount sample of the state of Florida. PARAB may want to
set standards, and establish public contact the week of October 7, 1991 .
We have to get this draft up to the state by the end of October. A Public
Meeting has been planned for October 16, at 2:00 p.m. at the Golden Gate
Community Park. Also Members of the Conservancy, etc. for option on
Management of that site. Control of Australian Pine and Brazilian Pepper
has to be accomplished by uprooting. Ms. Geneva Till requested a letter
of reminder to all PARAB Members.
E. NSA Contract:
This is a new agreement for Scorekeeper Services, to be used for all our
softball , basketball , and Co-ed leagues throughout the County. It will be
a one year contract with and association to perform all those functions.
There is a fee scheduled in there per game. We have a similar agreement
with Umpires. Staff is convinced that this is the best route to go. It
will probably save the County some time, because we won't be calling the
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Scorekeepers all the time. Staff recommends approval , so it can go before
the BCC. This has been approved by the County Attorney. Mr. Gil Mueller
motioned to approve the National Scorekeepers Association (NSA) Contract
as presented, so Mr. Murdo Smith can go before the BCC with it. Ms.
Cherryle Thomas seconded, and with no further discussion the motion passed
unanimously with a 5-0 vote.
F. School Bus Agreement:
This is a School Bus Agreement that we've had for numerous years. This is
an update with the School Board for busing our Summer Camp kids and After
School Program kids to different areas the beach, bowling, and so forth.
We pay for the busses, to the School Board. That is also associated with
fee per program and so forth. For example: From here, they may run down
to Tigertail Beach for a day, or they may go to Beacon Bowl , or something
like that. Usually it's in the afternoons. It's an extended service that
necessitates this type of transportation. Mr. Gil Mueller commented that
he thinks it's a good idea. Last year we had 3 or 4 a week, this year we
cut it back to about two. Staff recommended approval so it can go before
the BCC. Ms. Cherryle Thomas motioned to recommend to the BCC to approve
the School Bussing Agreement as stated by Murdo Smith today. Mr. William
Clendenon seconded, and with no further discussion, the motion passed with
a 5-0 vote.
IV. REQUESTS FOR DISCUSSION (continued) :
Chairman Kobza commented that since the time for the meeting was running
out, he wanted to economize on the time as best we can on the remaining
issues.
A. Productivity Report Discussion Scheduling:
Chairman Kobza requested an item from the Productivity Report be on each
PARAB Agenda to address this one at a time. Mr. Murdo Smith will write a
Memorandum to the County Manager to ask the BCC what direction to take.
Chairman Kobza commented that he would like clear direction from the BCC
or from the County Manager's office or somebody telling PARAB what they
want done by the next regular meeting, October 23, 1991 . PARAB does not
want to do something that they have other plans for. Mr. William
Clendenon asked for a copy of the Productivity Report. PARAB decided to
put "User Fees" as they relate to beach parking on the Agenda for October
23, 1991, and hopefully we will have BCC direction by then.
B. Vanderbilt Beach Turnaround:
no discussion.
C. Tigertail Beach Clean-up:
Mr. William Clendenon asked staff if they were aware that they can use
Convicted prisoners out of the County Jail for this kind of work. Mr.
Murdo Smith said yes. Presently we are using them on weekends to do the
raking of the beach. Mr. Gary Franco clarified that they are not
convicted felons, but Community Service Workers. Mr. William Clendenon
commented that Judges assign people to so many weekends in jail , they are
convicted and they can be forced to work. All what staff has to do is get
in touch with the Jail administrator. People in the County Jail awaiting
trial can not be worked. They are basically just laborers, and you can
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not rely on them to provide any particular skills. These people do not
wear jail uniforms they wear mustard colored work clothes.
D. Budget Issues:
Mr. Murdo Smith updated PARAB. Basically the BCC gave us the swimming
pool , the multipurpose building, the Football/Soccer Field Lighting for
Golden Gate North Naples and Immokalee. We got the improvements for the
gymnasium in Immokalee, Conklin Point Boat Ramp. On that Report, just
about everything was given to us that we had requested. The recommended
cuts that the County Manager had put up for review, the BCC did not agree
with the cuts, they left them back in. They were cutting the staff at the
Community Centers, and also the Multipurpose Building, but the BCC said to
go ahead and keep that in so we'll have them. Basically we did very well
this year. Murdo Smith commented, that we put in a good operating budget,
we kept it under the percentage, and with the Growth Management, and with
the facilities that we had to build. We did loose a Park Ranger position.
The designated safe swimming area for Tigertial is on-going with Coastal
Engineering right now. We will put in new sod and plants, a sprinkler
system, and dress up that sign at the front Entrance to Tigertail Beach.
At Tommie Barfield we are improving the softball facility, which is
already started. What we're looking at is possibly landscaping around the
tennis courts, where they put the bicycles, to buffer that off from the
road. The Frank E. Mackle Community Park Dividing Wall : At one of the
Budget meetings, Murdo brought that up, and the County Manager and
Commissioner Shanahan discussed the possibility of putting that in now,
since we still have a contract with the Vendor down there and the time to
do it. Bill Flynn from Compliance services received a price to install
the dividing wall , however, he wanted to check with the Architects to see
if it's structurally sound. We still have a contract. The Community
Center at Veteran's Park is estimated to be opened around the middle of
November. Chairman Kobza requested that staff schedule PARAB' s November
meeting at the Veterans Park Community Center, if it's completed in time.
VI. REPORTS/UPDATES:
A. Bonita Beach Park:
Mr. Murdo Smith mentioned that at Barefoot Beach, the Bath House out for
bid. Mr. Gil Mueller suggested that we'll probably have the bids on that
at the next regular meeting.
B. Recycling:
no discussion.
C. Tigertail Vegetation:
previously discussed.
D. 951 Boat Ramp Parking:
We're still investigating additional property down there.
E. Pools:
Staff hasn't been told that it's been cut, so everything is fine with
that.
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F. Vanderbilt Beach Accesses & Parking:
Mr. Murdo Smith commented that he would like to talk to Kim Kobza further
on that about the landscaping there, he' s got a way that maybe we can
proceed and do some things with that.
G. Community Centers:
Previously Addressed. They will probably all be opening in November
sometime.
H. Frank E. Mackle Jr. Park Building Expansion:
Still on-going. The punch list is being done. There was one inspection
where they had 30 some items, the next list they had 20, the next list
they'll have 10, and hopefully we can get them all corrected this time.
Mr. Murdo Smith said that they have performed very poor on the punch the
first initial time. Mr. Gil Mueller agreed. Mr. Bill Flynn, is well
aware of it.
I. Conklin Point Boat Ramp:
It was pulled from the BCC Agenda by the County Managers office, so design
approval was not received. We're still looking at working something with
Westinghouse there.
J. Listing of Donated Property:
Nothing yet. It's not a top priority for the Real Property Department.
Murdo Smith will write another memo, and Mr. Gil Mueller requested to add
to that memo that it was requested nine months ago.
K. Immokalee Child Care Center:
Staff doesn't think that they'll be putting it in there. They almost
passed their time, because there was some problems with zoning as far as
Real Property was concerned. It was mentioned to us that there were no
concerns with zoning, and then for some reason, some were brought up.
Staff hasn't heard from Mr. Lawson in quite some time. Ms. Cherryle
Thomas commented that they went in connection with another group, now
Stepping Stones will get Federal Government Money.
L. Clam Pass Park:
Previously discussed.
VIII. NEW BUSINESS:
None.
VI. Adjournment:
Mr. William Clendenon motioned to adjourn the meeting at 5:45 p.m. Ms.
Cherryle Thomas seconded, and the motion passed with a 5-0 vote.
MS:rtd:003773
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