CLB Minutes 04/16/2014 CONTRACTORS
LICENSING
BOARD
Minutes
April 16 , 2014
April 16,2014
MINUTES
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
MEETING
April 16, 2014
Naples, Florida
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Contractors' Licensing
Board, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 AM in
REGULAR SESSION in Administrative Building "F," 3rd Floor, Collier County
Government Complex, Naples, Florida, with the following Members present:
Chairman: Patrick White
Vice Chair: Thomas Lykos
Members: Terry Jerulle
Richard Joslin
Kyle Lantz
Gary McNally
Robert Meister
Excused: Michael Boyd
Ronald Donino
ALSO PRESENT:
Michael Ossorio — Supervisor, Contractors' Licensing Office
Colleen Greene, Esq. —Assistant County Attorney
Kevin Noell, Esq. —Assistant County Attorney
James F. Morey, Esq. — Attorney for the Contractors' Licensing Board
Thomas Keegan —Licensing Compliance Officer
1
April 16,2014
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this Board will need a record of the
proceedings and may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is
made, which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which the Appeal is
to be based.
I. ROLL CALL:
Chairman Patrick White called the meeting to order at 9:00 AM and read the
procedures to be followed to appeal a decision of the Board.
Roll call was taken and a quorum was established; seven members were present.
II. AGENDA—ADDITIONS,DELETIONS, OR CHANGES:
The order of the Agenda Order was changed; the following will be heard after Item V,
"Discussion:"
• Under Item VI. (E)—"New Business:"
o Russell G. Spokish, d/b/a"Alno Painting, Inc.,"—Waiver of Exams for
Reinstatement;
• Under Item VIII. (A)—"Public Hearing:"
o Case#2014-06: Hublar Lopez Rodriguez, d/b/a"Nian Construction, Inc."
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Vice Chairman Thomas Lykos moved to approve the Agenda as amended. Richard
Joslin offered a Second in support of the motion. Carried unanimously, 7— 0.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES—MARCH 19, 2014:
Correction:
• Page 26: [Sentence beginning "Attorney Morey confirmed... "]
o Change the word "life" to "lift."
Gary McNally moved to approve the Minutes of the March 19, 2014 meeting as
amended. Vice Chairman Lykos offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7—0.
V. DISCUSSION:
(None)
VI. NEW BUSINESS:
(Note: With reference to the cases heard under Section VI, the individuals who
testified were first sworn in by the Attorney for the Board.)
E. Russell G. Spokish—Request for Waiver of Exam(s) for Reinstatement
(d/b/a"Alno Painting, Inc.")
Russell G. Spokish was present and represented by his Attorney, Patrick H. Neale.
2
April 16,2014
Michael Ossorio referenced Section 22-191(i) of the Code for Renewals.
• Mr. Spokish has been a cabinet installer for approximately 13 years.
• He allowed his license to lapse.
• He has requesting a Waiver of Testing for the Business Procedures test.
• He is present to explain his experience to the Board.
Attorney Neale stated:
• Mr. Spokish has been a cabinet installer for over thirteen years with
significant experience.
• He closed his business three years ago but continued to work in the
industry during that period of time.
• He is requesting a Waiver of the Testing Requirement.
• His intention is to go back into business again.
Chairman White stated he would categorize the Affidavit of Experience as
"self-certified," i.e., the Affidavit was signed by his wife,Martha.
Russell Spokish stated his wife is also his business partner. He and his wife have
been married for 30 years. He has been in the industry for more than 30 years
and she has seen everything that he accomplished, i.e., manufacturing and
installing cabinets, cabinet design, etc.
Attorney Neale noted two additional Affidavits were included in the packet
[from Servio Cortes and Christopher North] concerning Mr. Spokish's experience
as a Cabinet and Millwork Contractor.
Michael Ossorio confirmed installation of countertops was included under
Cabinet and Millwork contractor.
Vice Chairman Lykos asked the Applicant to explain exactly what he had been
doing in the industry for the past three years while his license was null and void.
Mr. Spokish explained he moved to Canton, Georgia and opened a cabinet
showroom, doing sales and designs. When he moved back to Naples, he began
designing kitchens and baths for other people. He has been working consistently
in the industry but has not been able to install his designs because his license has
lapsed.
Michael Ossorio referenced Section 22-162(5) and the definition of Cabinet
Installation Contractor:
Cabinet Installation Contractor requires 24 months experience with
passing grade on a Business and Law Test; and means any person
who is qualified to manufacture, assemble, install, dismantle, maintain,
adjust, alter, extend, and design cabinets and millwork. The scope of
permitted work shall include, but not be limited to, kitchen cabinets,
bathroom vanities, accessory cabinets, counter tops, office furniture,
and millwork items which have been manufactured for installation on
job site locations.
3
April 16,2014
Richard Joslin referenced the Applicant's credit application which had been
impeccable until 2009. He asked what happened after 2009.
Russell Spokish replied his business was "devastated" by the housing recession
because approximately 90% of his business came from new construction. He
paid what he could from his savings. He stated it was a"desperate"time and he
let his license lapse because he couldn't afford the payments.
Attorney Neale explained the civil judgment. He stated it was an incorrect entry
on Mr. Spokish's credit record. He is in the process of contacting TransUnion
Credit Agency to have it removed from his credit report because there is no
judgment by RBC against his client. There was a Judgment of Foreclosure which
was satisfied.
When asked why he did not feel it was necessary to re-take the Business and Law
test, the Applicant stated it contained a number of mathematical questions which
were not relevant to his business.
Michael Ossorio stated the County recommended reinstatement without requiring
the Applicant to retake the exam.
Vice Chairman Lykos moved to approve granting the Applicant's request for a
Waive the requirement for testing and to approve reinstatement of his license.
Richard Joslin offered a Second in support of the motion.
Motion carried, 6— "Yes"/1 — "No." Terry Jerulle was opposed.
A. Orders of the Board:
Richard Joslin moved to approve authorizing the Chairman to sign the Orders
of the Board. Gary McNally offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7—0.
VIII. PUBLIC HEARING:
(Note: With reference to the case heard under Section VIII, the individuals who
testified were first sworn in by the Attorney for the Board.)
A. Case#2014-06: Hublar Lopez Rodriguez, d/b/a "Nian Construction, Inc."
Respondent, Hublar Lopez Rodriguez, was present and represented by his
Attorney, Patrick H. Neale.
Richard Joslin moved to approve opening the Public Hearing in Case #2014-
06, Hublar Lopez Rodriguez, d/b/a "Nian Construction, Inc." Kyle Lantz
offered a Second in support of the motion. Carried unanimously, 7—0.
4
•
April 16,2014
Chairman White briefly outlined the order of the proceedings to be followed
which are defined in Collier County Ordinance#90-105, as amended, and Florida
Statutes, Chapter 49:
• The Hearings are quasi-judicial in nature;
• The formal Rules of Evidence shall not apply but fundamental fairness and
Due Process shall be observed and govern the proceedings;
• Irrelevant, immaterial, or cumulative evidence shall be excluded.
• All other evidence of the type commonly relied upon by reasonably prudent
persons in the conduct of their affairs shall be admissible, whether or not such
evidence would be admissible in a trial in the Courts of the State of Florida.
• Hearsay evidence may be used for the purpose of supplementing or
explaining any evidence but shall not be sufficient by itself to support a
Finding, unless such hearsay would be admissible over objection in a civil
action in Court.
• The proof required is clear and convincing evidence.
• The "Rules of Privilege" shall be effective to the same extent that such
Rules are now, or hereafter may be, recognized in civil actions.
• Any member of the Contractors' Licensing Board may question any witness.
• Each party to the proceedings shall have the right to call/examine witnesses;
introduce Exhibits; cross-examine witnesses; impeach any witness regardless
of which party called the witness to testify; and to rebut any evidence
presented against the party.
• The Chairperson or, in his/her absence, the Vice Chair, shall have all
powers necessary to conduct the proceedings at the Hearing in a full, fair,
and impartial manner, and to preserve order and decorum.
• The general process of the Hearing is for the County to present an"Opening
Statement" followed by an"Opening Statement" by the Respondent.
• Evidence that either party desires to be admitted shall be presented as part
of the "Opening Statement."
• The County will present its "Case in Chief' followed by the Respondent's
defense.
• After that, the County may offer a "Rebuttal. "
• When the"Rebuttal" is concluded, each party is permitted to present a
"Closing Statement."
• The County is allowed a second opportunity to rebut the Respondent's
"Closing Statement."
• That will conclude the Public Hearing.
• The Board will close the Public Hearing and begin deliberations.
• Prior to beginning deliberations, the Board's Attorney will give a"Charge"
to the Board, which is similar to the Charge given to a Jury, setting out the
parameters on which the decision will be based.
• During deliberations,the Board can request additional information and
clarification from the parties.
• The Board will decide two different issues:
o Whether the Respondent is guilty of the offense as charged in the
Administrative Complaint. A vote will be taken on the matter.
5
April 16,2014
o If the Respondent is found guilty, the Board must decide the sanctions
to be imposed.
• The Board's Attorney will advise the Board concerning the sanctions which
may be imposed and the factors to be considered.
• The Board will discuss the sanctions and vote.
• After the matters are decided, the Chair will orally report the decision of the
Board.
• The Final Order will include the complete details as required under State laws
and procedures.
Thomas Keegan, Licensing Compliance Officer, requested to submit the packet
of information into evidence as County's Exhibit"A."
Vice Chairman Lykos moved to approve admitting the information packet into
evidence as County's Exhibit "A." Richard Joslin offered a Second in support
of the motion. Carried unanimously, 7—0.
Chairman White announced he was filing a Form 8-B, "Conflict of Interest."
He stated he was employed by Antonio Brown, a business owner, who employs
Mr. Rodriguez. He turned the gavel over to Vice Chairman Lykos and asked him
to chair the balance of the proceedings.
Vice Chairman Lykos asked James Morey, the Board's Attorney, for an
explanation of the limited of Chairman White's participation during the hearing.
Mr. Morey stated the after a disclosure had been made, the individual who made
the disclosure was allowed to participate in the deliberations and offer input, but
not to sway the vote one way or the other.
Thomas Keegan presented the County's "Opening Statement:"
• The Respondent is a Collier County registered Building Contractor,
License# LCC-20120004890.
• Violation: Section 22.201(6) of Ordinance#90-105, as amended:
o "Disregards or violated, in the performance of his contracting
business in the County, any of the building, safety health,
insurance or Workers'; Compensation laws of the State of
Ordinances of this County."
• March 10, 2014: Received a call from an Investigator for the Florida
Department of Financial Services, regarding Nian Construction Inc. The
Investigator had been at a job site on March 7, 2014.
• He met the Investigator at the jobsites on Linda Drive. The sites were
permitted jobs by Nian Construction, Inc.
• During her investigator, Ms. Asyia Snodgrass determined that the workers
on jobsites 2837, 2785, and 2805 (all on Linda Drive) were employees of
Nian Construction, Inc.
• She spoke with Antonio Brown, President of Nian, who confirmed the
workers were employees, not subcontractors.
6
April 16,2014
• Both Mr. Brown and the Qualifer, Hublar Lopez Rodriguez, were
exempted from Workers' Compensation coverage.
• Issue: Greg Roe, Rose Insurance, stated the insured neglected to send
back the signed Workers Comp applications. He needed coverage ASAP.
The policy was issued on March 7t at 3:02 PM.
• A "Stop Work" Order was issued by Investigator Snodgrass on March 10,
2014 for failing to obtain Workers' Compensation coverage for
employees on the jobsites on March 7, 2014.
• A Notice of Hearing was issued to Mr. Rodriguez on March 11, 2014.
• This is the second Workers' Compensation violation issued to Mr.
Rodriguez. (See: County's Exhibit"E-20")
Attorney Neale presented the Respondent's "Opening Statement:"
• The Respondent was willing to accept the County's "Opening Statement."
• The employees are covered by Workers' Compensation insurance
coverage.
• Steps have been taken since the violation was issued to ensure that this
situation does not happen again by instituting a new policy where
employees report in every day.
o ADP, the payroll company, has access to the insurance provider to
verify who is working that day and provide coverage for each
worker.
o A new manager has been hired to monitor that the company is
continually in compliance.
• They had Workers' Compensation coverage in the past but the leasing
company declined to continue coverage because they were too small.
• When they went to ADP after the leasing company but there were a
clerical error and they were not picked up by ADP's Workers' Comp
system to provide insurance coverage. As soon as the lack of coverage
was discovered, it was immediately procured through Roe Insurance.
• Mr. Rodriguez has entered into a Stipulation Agreement which was
discussed with Mr. Ossorio.
Mr. Neale read the terms and conditions of the Stipulated Settlement Agreement
and Agreed Order into the record as follows:
" BEFORE THE COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING
BOARD
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS,
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,
CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD, Case Number: 2014-06
Petitioner, License No.:
LCC201200004890/
vs. RB 29003585
7
April 16,2014
Hublar Lopez Rodriguez,
d/b/a "Nian Construction, Inc.,
Respondent.
STIPULATED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND AGREED ORDER
Hublar Lopez Rodriguez and the Board of County Commissioners, Collier
County, Florida, Contractor's Licensing Board (hereafter"the BOARD"),
hereby stipulate and agree:
1) Respondent admits the allegations in the Administrative Complaint for the
purpose of this Stipulation and settlement of this matter.
2) Respondent and the BOARD hereby agree that he will be subject to probation
for a period of twelve (12) months whereby the Respondent will perform his
contracting activities under the supervision of the Board.
3) Respondent and the BOARD further agree that Respondent will personally
apply for all permits and be present, either in person or telephonically, for any
review or questions as to the contracting operations of the company which he
qualifies during this restriction period. This includes permits issued by the
Cities of Marco Island or Naples, inclusive of Fire Code Reviews.
Respondent may, as necessary, respond through a translator to facilitate
communication.
4) Fine of$4,200 dollars to be paid within 90 days.
5) Investigation costs of$525 dollars to be paid within 90 days.
6) This Stipulated Settlement Agreement and Order shall be forwarded to the
State Construction Industry Licensing Board with a recommendation of"no
further action."
Executed this day of April, 2014.
Is! Hublar Lopez Rodriguez
Hublar Lopez Rodriguez Michael Ossorio
Respondent Contractors' Licensing Supervisor
ORDER ADOPTING STIPULATED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT
THIS BOARD BEING FULLY ADVISED on the Stipulated Settlement
Agreement, it is hereby:
8
April 16,2014
ADJUDGED that the foregoing Stipulated Settlement Agreement is adopted in
its entirety, and the parties are ordered to comply therewith.
DONE AND ORDERED at the regularly set Contractor's Licensing Board
hearing at Naples, Collier County, Florida, on this 16th day of April, 2014.
Patrick White, Chairman
Contractors' Licensing Board "
Mr. Neale called Mr. Rodriguez to testify.
Attorney Neale questioned the Respondent:
Q. Would you state your name for the record, please?
A. My name is Hublar Lopez.
Q. Did you agree to this Stipulated Settlement Agreement and Agreed Order?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you understand the contents of that Stipulated Settlement Agreement and
Agreed Order?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you accept the contents of the Stipulation as being a settlement in this
case?
A. Yes.
Michael Ossorio stated the County had no further evidence to present, and
agreed to the terms/conditions of the Stipulated Settlement Agreement and Order.
He further stated the County agreed to the Stipulation because it would expedite
the issue—saving the County's time and it was in the best interest of the
Licensing Office. He stated the County's case was closed.
Michael Osorio explained the company [Nian] paid substantial penalties to the
State and was in compliance. The Respondent is a fairly new Contractor who did
well on his tests. The Licensing Office wants to have the Qualifier come into the
office,talk to the Building Officials and the Inspectors, pull the permits, do the
revisions, and further understand the process of being a Qualifier which is
important during the first twelve months of starting a business. The penalty
assessed was $4,200 which is not that far off from the maximum of$5,000.
Mr. Neale concurred, stating his client was willing to stipulate to the terms and
conditions of the Agreement to save costs.
Vice Chairman Lykos stated Workers' Compensation issues were one of his
biggest concerns. While he appreciated the Stipulated Agreement and being able
to expedite the process, he was concerned about not having the details of the case
9
April 16,2014
read into the record. He asked how long the Respondent's employees were
without Workers' Compensation coverage before the situation was corrected. He
asked where was the diligence to prevent being caught? By not having Workers'
Compensation coverage, a company could compete unfairly because it was not
paying that expense when bidding a job.
The Respondent was called to the podium and a translator (Antonio Brown) was
present to assist.
Antonio Brown stated he was the President of the company.
Vice Chairman Lykos asked Mr. Brown how long his workers went without
Workers' Compensation insurance.
Mr. Brown replied they started with a leasing company but it was very hard to
obtain coverage because they had less than ten employees. They were dropped
by the leasing company in January. Afterward, we didn't have any employees.
We struggled to find a company to give us Workers' Compensation coverage.
We worked only with subcontractors—we didn't have any employees. They
signed on with ADP because they offered a package which included payroll and
Workers' Comp coverage. We didn't understand that another company was
doing the insurance. We sent the paperwork to ADP and thought that everything
was in place. We didn't know that we hadn't authorized the other company for
the coverage. When the Investigator went to the job site and called us, we said
we were covered and to call ADP. They called ADP on Friday who called me on
Monday to say that we were not covered. I called the company that was to have
provided the coverage and was told that we never authorized them to provide
coverage but it was done the same day—a couple of hours later. The applications
were in place—the paperwork was corrected and submitted. That's why we had
the insurance the same day. If we had applied just because we got caught, it
would have taken three or four days. We had everything in place and thought
that everything was done.
Vice Chairman Lykos again asked how long his employees were without
coverage.
Mr. Brown responded,"less than 30 days. It was 20 days."
Michael Ossorio asked about the penalty assessed by the State.
Mr. Brown stated his firm paid $14,000 to the State.
Attorney Neale noted the fine paid to Workers' Compensation plus the $4,700
paid to the County was significantly more than a"slap on the wrist."
Vice Chairman Lykos asked Investigator Keegan if Nian had been cited for any
other violations and his response was, "No."
Richard Joslin asked about the first citation issued in July, 2013 for not having
Workers' Compensation coverage and the penalty that was assessed.
Antonio Brown stated it was approximately $4,000.
Thomas Keegan noted Ian Jackson had issued a Citation for $300 to that jobsite
in July, 2013. (See: County's Exhibit"E-23")
Investigator Ian Jackson was called to testify and was sworn in.
10
April 16,2014
Ian Jackson identified the Citation issued in July, 2013 which coincided with the
"Stop Work" Order issued by the Department of Financial Services.
Terry Jerulle asked Mr. Brown if he understood that he is required to obtain
Workers' Compensation insurance and his response was, "Yes."
Mr. Jerulle expressed his concern that if the President and the Qualifier
understood this responsibility, why was there a second Citation issue for the same
violation.
Mr. Brown stated there error on their part was not following up with ADP
because they thought ADP was handling everything—they did not understand
that another company would provide the Workers' Compensation coverage. Now
they understand the entire process. They have hired a Superintendent who will
verify who is working on which jobsite and will ensure they have coverage. He
stated they are very serious about improving their business and are taking the
steps necessary.
Mr. Neale stated if the Board is not going to accept the Stipulation, he would
request a Continuance in order to prepare for a trial.
Richard Joslin moved to approve closing the Public Hearing. Gary McNally
offered a Second in support of the Motion. Carried unanimously, 6—0.
(Chairman White did not vote.)
Vice Chairman Lykos stated the Respondent admitted his guilt.
He stated the question before the Board was whether or not to accept the
Stipulated Agreement, and if the Agreement was not accepted, would the Board
grant a Continuance.
Attorney Morey explained the maximum penalties that could be assessed were a
fine of$5,000, reimbursement to the County of investigative costs, and a
probationary period of two years.
He suggested the Board consider its past decisions where second violations were
involved.
Richard Joslin stated he would like to amend the Stipulation to reflect
assessment of the maximum the fine to $5,000 and place probation at 24 months.
He further stated payment of the investigative costs would remain the same as
would the 90 day timeframe to pay the fines.
Gary McNally stated he agreed with extending the probationary period to 24
months although he did not think the $4,200 needed to be changed. It was noted
increasing the time period in Item 2 also extended to Item 3.
Michael Ossorio noted the company had pulled several permits for single family
homes in the past year (approximatelyl0). He stated he would like to see both
Mr. Brown and Mr. Lopez in the office, pulling permits for the next 12 months.
11
April 16,2014
Mr. Brown stated the company's attorney, Mr. Neale, will help them to ensure
that all paperwork is completed and filed correctly. We are spending our
resources to make sure that this never happens again.
Vice Chairman Lykos recognized that the company has taken serious corrective
active prior to the hearing.
After further discussion, it was determined the Board supported amending the
Stipulated Agreement to reflect the additional time for probation.
Mr. Neale stated his client would be agreeable to extending the probation to
twenty-four months.
Richard Joslin moved to approve accepting the Stipulated Agreement as
amended to extend the probation in Item #2 from twelve to twenty-four months
and also extends Item #3 to twenty-four months. The fine of$4,200 and the
reimbursement to the County of investigative costs of$525 would remain as
stipulated. Gary McNally offered a Second in support of the motion.
Motion carried, 6— "Yes"/1 — "Abstention." Chairman White abstained from
voting.
(Note: The Stipulation was amended to conform with the Motion and signed by
all parties. A copy of the signed Agreement is attached to the Minutes.)
VI. NEW BUSINESS: (Continued)
(Note: With reference to the cases heard under Section VI, the individuals who
testified were first sworn in by the Attorney for the Board.)
B. Terry L. Curtis—Verification of Experience
(d/b/a "AAA Eagle Plumbing, Inc.")
Michael Ossorio provided background information:
• Mr. Curtis is a licensed, registered Plumbing Contractor and has been for
several years;
• He took the exam for"Class B" Air Conditioning (under 25-tons; under
500,000 BTU);
• There are questions concerning his Credit Report;
• He lacks the paperwork that verifies his experience.
Mr. Ossorio stated, according to the Code, a"Class B" Air-Conditioning Contractor
requires 36 months of experience as a licensed Journeyman, or equivalent, with a
passing grade on the Business Procedures test. He noted there is a Journeyman test.
He stated it typically takes five to six years before a Contractor can take the test
as a Journeyman. First, he would work as an apprentice for four years and then,
if he passed the required tests, would become a Journeyman.
He explained the County accepts Affidavits from previous employers concerning
verification of employment and experience. Paul Jackson had an in-house
program to teach their apprentices to become Journeymen. The County also
12
April 16,2014
accepts Affidavits from other jurisdictions concerning Journeymen experience—
throughout the State as well as from other states.
Chairman White asked if the County had verification from other jurisdictions.
Mr. Ossorio replied, "No."
Mr. White asked if Mr. Curtis was a licensed Journeyman and the response was,
"No."
Mr. Ossorio noted taking the Journeyman's test was not required; the work
experience, or its equivalent, was sufficient. He stated Mr. Curtis chose to take
the "Class B"Master Exam which he passed with a score of 75% in June, 2013.
Chairman White stated there was essentially nothing in the record that spoke to
the Applicant's experience. He asked Mr. Curtis to explain his experience.
Terry Curtis stated:
• He is the owner of AAA Eagle Plumbing, Inc.
• He took the A/C Exam because he was asked if he had construction
experience. He stated he has been in construction since 1986. His
company been in business since 2004.
• He has worked for A/C companies over the years.
• He stated he was unable to obtain a letter from Paul Jackson because he
was initially hired as a plumber but he was trained during the summers
when plumbing work was slow to perform a/c work.
• He stated he was confused as to why Mr. Jackson would not give him a
letter verifying his a/c experience since he was trained by Mr. Jackson and
did a/c work as he was instructed.
• He decided to take the "Class B" exam to add the a/c license to his
Plumbing Contractor license and better serve his customers.
• He is originally from Kentucky and his father and uncles are involved in
a/c work. In Kentucky, plumbers are allowed to perform a/c work in
addition to plumbing.
• When he moved to Naples, he worked in Bentley Village in maintenance.
He said he rode with the "a/c guys, watched them, and learned."
Chairman White asked the Applicant how many months or years of
Journeyman-level technical experience he had.
Mr. Curtis stated he worked for Jackson for only one year and was at Bentley
Village for two years in the 1980s.
Michael Ossorio outlined the criteria for a Journeyman in air-conditioning:
• Four years of apprenticeship; a passing grade on an approved test; means
any person who is qualified while employed or supervised by an air-
conditioning or mechanical contractor.
• Afterward, the individual could take the Journeyman test and become a
licensed Journeyman after thirty-six months of experience.
Chairman White stated he was not convinced the Applicant had the necessary
experience.
13
April 16,2014
Kyle Lantz asked Mr. Curtis what type of work he wanted to do, i.e., change-
outs, repairs.
Terry Curtis replied a/c repair along with his plumbing repair work. He wanted
to give his customers an option; he could clean the coils and add Freon if their a/c
unit was not running cold enough. He stated he did not want to do any major
change-outs. He wanted to be able to service the equipment along with his
servicing of water heaters.
Kyle Lantz stated the Applicant's goal was to perform basic maintenance and
simple services.
Mr. Curtis noted he worked by himself. He stated he has done some new
construction work but it was "very, very small."
Mr. Lantz stated there was a"Class C" license which would allow him to
perform simple services.
Mr. Curtis reminded him that he would not be allowed to install Freon under a
"Class C" license.
Michael Ossorio confirmed holders of a"Class C" license could perform
maintenance and service including cleaning coils and duct cleaning. He noted
with a Freon card, the Applicant could install Freon. He further stated while the
State does not offer a"Class C" license, Collier County still did.
He explained even though Mr. Curtis took the "Class B" exam, his license could
be restricted to performing"Class C"maintenance and service. He would still
need four years of apprenticeship and two years as a licensed Journeyman.
Kyle Lantz questioned the Applicant, asking for his experience with service
work.
Terry Curtis replied, "That's what I was doing when I was with Jackson. The
whole time I was there. That's what they were training me to do. It was all
service."
Mr. Lantz requested the Applicant provide details concerning the type of work
that he did.
A. I cleaned coils, I also made sure the drains ... the most important thing ...
people would ... their a/c would stop ... so I would go there and check the
flow switch, checked the drains to make sure it was not plugged with algae,
change all the filters, check the batteries, the thermostat, usually checked the
Freon, and checked the contacts. That's basically what I did for them all the
time.
Mr. Lantz stated he has been a plumber for years, as well as a"Class B" Air
Conditioning Contractor. He explained he obtained his experience by doing the
same as the Applicant. He further stated most A/C Contractors would consider
what Mr. Curtis did as a/c maintenance work—but not really service work. He
continued he considered service work to be when a customer called, saying he
had no cold air. He asked the Applicant how he would fix the problem. He
agreed the flow switch was a common problem—if the drain was clogged, you
would have that issue. He further explained that, in his opinion, "service work"
was typically a contact, fan motor, control board,thermostat—a little more
14
April 16,2014
intense "stuff." When the Applicant hadn't done any of that ... he concluded by
stating it was difficult for him to grant someone a license who hadn't actually
done the whole job.
Chairman White asked Mr. Lantz if he would be in favor of granting a license if
it were reduced to "Class C."
Kyle Lantz replied he would still not be in favor of it—"there's a big difference
between maintenance and service. In my opinion, his experience is in
maintenance."
Richard Joslin stated he was curious regarding why Jackson wouldn't give the
Applicant a letter, especially if he had been doing the work for one year.
A. Because he hired me as a plumber.
Q. A year is better than nothing.
A. He kind of got angry with me when I put my license on hold. I went to work
for him under plumbing but when I re-instated my license and quit, he kind of
got upset.
Q. Okay, that explains it.
Vice Chairman Lykos moved to approve denying the Applicant's request to
issue the license. Richard Joslin offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7—0.
Chairman White suggested to Mr. Curtis to consider applying for a"Class C"
license and obtain other evidence to demonstrate his experience.
Vice Chairman Lykos added that an important part of the Ordinance was that
the Applicant work under someone else's supervision.
Terry Curtis explained he could work for any a/c company but he did not want
to give up his plumbing company to do so. He stated the reason why he wanted
the "Class B" license was to "slowly work into it."
C. Robert A. Zielinski—Second Entity Application
(d/b/a "Raz Construction, LLC.")
Michael Ossorio referenced Section 22-181(2):
A Qualifying Agent may qualify no more than one firm, practicing
the same trade, without prior approval of the Contractors'
Licensing Board and, in no event, more than two firms at the same
time.
Mr. Ossorio stated Mr. Zielinski is the Qualifier for A —Z Masonry, Inc. and
wants to qualify Raz Construction, LLC. He owns 100% of Raz Construction.
Chairman White noted Raz Construction has been incorporated since last year
as an LLC.
Richard Joslin asked if Robert Zielinski if he had downsized to an LLC or if he
had been a corporation at one point.
A. A —Z Masonry is the corporation.
15
April 16,2014
Michael Ossorio asked Mr. Zielinski if he had been before the Fort Myers'
Licensing Board and the response was, "Yes."
Robert Zielinski explained he was licensed in Lee County, Cape Coral, Punta
Gorda, and Port Charlotte.
Q. For two companies?
A. Yes.
Q. I think we're the last one.
A. Yes.
Q. Can you explain to the Board why you are doing two.
A. A—Z Masonry—I have done it forever. People are calling me thinking I am
just a masonry company. Actually, I do concrete and masonry. But I'm
losing out on some of my concrete work.
Chairman White asked if a name change would work.
Michael Ossorio responded the Applicant wants to keep A—Z. He indicated he
had discussed the option with Mr. Zielinski.
A. A lot of people know me as A —Z Masonry and I don't want to lose them
because they wouldn't know I changed to Raz Construction.
Vice Chairman Lykos referenced Question"K" on the application to qualify a
Second Entity which asked "What percentage of ownership do you have in the
present business you are qualing and what percentage of ownership will you
have in the business you are attempting to qualify?" He asked if the answer
[100%] meant one hundred percent of both.
A. Yes.
Kyle Lantz commented that one of the things that concerns him when the Second
Entity is similar or close to the first company is that the companies might, in
certain instances, bid against each other. In this situation, it is probably not the
case and it appears the Applicant has done his homework. But the possibility still
exists. This is a hurdle that you might need to overcome.
A. I have been in business and having been paying bills all my life—that's not
me.
Vice Chairman Lykos stated one of his concerns was that one company would
collect the money and the other would pay the bills. One company has the debt
and while the other company has all the revenue. He stated the Applicant had an
excellent credit report.
Mr. Lykos noted his concern was also expressed by other members of the Board
in similar hearings. If you have two business entities that do the same kind of
work, you can have all of your accounts in one company that buys all the material
but, somehow, that company never seems to make any money. The other
company collects the money but never has any expenses.
A. If I do a contract with you, you are going to do it under one company or the
other, and you are going to pay me on that job.
Q. I understand, but you could take A—Z Masonry and buy all the concrete and
buy the block even though I've hired the other company—that's my contract
16
April 16,2014
with you and that's who I would pay the money to. But you would purchase
the materials in the name of the other company. It is a concern.
Chairman White stated if the Board approves the Second Entity the Applicant's
intention—as indicated in his cover letter—is for the new contract work to be in
Raz Construction. As the obligations that A—Z has are fulfilled, there is a
potential that his license—which is dormant—would not enter into the new
contracts.
A. Regarding A—Z Masonry, at this point right now, I am the only employee of
A—Z. I am Workers' Comp exempt. My employees are all part of Raz.
What I don't want to do is to go dormant with A—Z Masonry. A—Z will be
kept separate.
Chairman White asked how he plans to keep the situation raised by Mr. Lykos
from happening.
A. I don't do business that way.
When asked if there were any way to prevent A — Z Masonry from pulling a
permit in Collier County, Michael Ossorio explained the company specializes in
block work and Specialty licenses usually do not pull permits.
It was noted A—Z Masonry, Inc. has been in business since 1988.
Michael Ossorio stated the County's recommended approving the Applicant's
request. He stated that Mr. Zielinski has been qualified and is conducting
business in Lee County and Charlotte County.
Vice Chairman Lykos asked about the current work load of A—Z Masonry. He
noted the Applicant letter stated he intended to phase out the company as each job
was completed.
A. I have nothing in Collier County. In the other Counties, everything is almost
phased completely out. Most everything has already moved over to Raz, i.e.,
my contracts, new construction, insurance, payroll and everything else.
Michael Ossorio confirmed proof of Workers' Compensation coverage had been
provided.
Vice Chairman Lykos moved to approve granting the Applicant's request to
Qualify a Second Entity. Kyle Lantz offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7—0.
RECESS: 10:31 AM
RECONVENED: 10:42 AM
D. Jorge Ramirez—Verification of Construction Experience
(d/b/a "Jorge Ramirez Lawn Care, LLC")
17
April 16,2014
Michael Ossorio referenced to Section 22-162 (25) of the Code.
Landscaping Contractor requires 12 months experience and a
passing grade on a business and law test and means any person
who is qualified to install and/or remove trees, shrubs, sod, decorative
stone and/or rocks, timber and plant materials, and concrete paving
units for sidewalks, patios and decks only, whether or not incidental to
landscaping,prepackaged fountains, or waterfalls, provided same does
not include connection to a sanitary sewer system, portable water line,
or to any electrical installation, which tasks must be perfoiined by
tradesmen licensed in the relevant trade. Landscape contractors may
contract for only removal and/or trimming of trees and/or other combination
of the authorized services.
All new applicants applying for landscaping license are required to obtain
a passing grade on an approved exam pertaining to pruning and safety, in
addition to the Business and Law exam.
Mr. Ossorio provided background information:
• Applicant applied for a Landscaping Contractor's license;
• Twelve months of experience is required;
He noted Mr. Ramirez was issued a Citation for unlicensed activity and paid the
fine of$300 and the violation was abated because he applied within 45 days of
the Citation. Mr. Ramirez took and passed the necessary two exams, i.e.,
Business & Law and Tree Trimming exam.
• His issue: providing documentation to support his landscaping experience
Jorge Ramirez stated:
• He is currently employed by a plumbing company
• His goal is to open a landscaping business
• His father works at a licensed landscaping company and he will join the
business if the Board grants his request for a license
o His father has 20+years of experience and taught the Applicant
everything he knows
o His brother, Ricardo,taken/passed the BMP exam and has a
Limited Commercial Fertilizer Applicator Certificate and will also
join the business
Chairman White questioned the Applicant concerning a construction experience
affidavit signed by Jesus Garcia of Golden Leaf Pest, Inc. He noted the affidavit
did not contain any information about when he worked for Golden Leaf or what
he did while employed there.
A. I worked for Jesus Garcia and helped him out trimming hedges and ...
Q. How long and what did you do?
A. I trimmed the hedges in front of his Chinese restaurant, part-time on the
weekends, for roughly four months.
18
April 16,2014
Q. And there's no one else that you could get any kind of an affidavit from as to
your construction experience?
A. No, sir, no. I haven't worked for a landscaping company.
Q. You worked for Tru-Green. What was that?
A. I did not work for Tru-Green. My brother ...
Q. I'm sorry ... that was your brother ....
A. Alfredo.
Vice Chairman Lykos stated in order to get the license, you need 12 months of
experience. Typically, an Applicant would provide written verification from a
supervisor at the company where he/she worked. The document would state how
long the applicant worked and what type of work he/she did. You don't have
that. One of the other things that we can accept is your testimony. We need you
to tell us that for at least twelve months, you did the kind of work that would
qualify for this license.
Jorge Ramirez stated:
• You can ask me any questions because I feel pretty confident that I can
answer them.
• I worked in my parents' yard—that's where I learned. We planted
coconut palms, guava, lots of foliage and plants that grow in South
Florida.
• My father showed me everything he knows.
• My brother, who took his Fertilizer Applications test, has helped me out
with any questions about fertilizers.
• I've done lots of work but I can't show you physical proof
• I can just explain to you what I know. That's all I have, sir.
Kyle Lantz asked about the Citation for sodding. He asked if Mr. Ramirez had
been doing landscaping "on the side" and the response was, "Yes."
A. I have been doing this "on the side" for three years.
Mr. Ramirez described the equipment he used for his work.
Mr. Lantz noted the Applicant had the tools that he needed and resources in his
family to help him if he encountered a problem.
Michael Ossorio explained the Landscaping Contractor's license does not allow
the use of fertilizers. That is a separate license. An extension course is offered
and you receive a card upon completion. All employees of any company that
applies fertilizer must carry the card. Pest Control is regulated by the Department
of Environmental Protection. There is no license requirement for the application
of fertilizers.
Mr. Ramirez acknowledged that while he worked as a plumber, he would not
risk receiving another Citation and $1,000 fine to correct a plumbing problem
(such as a broken sprinkler head) while on a landscaping job. If he found it was
necessary, he would apply for an Irrigation License.
19
April 16,2014
Chairman White asked Michael Ossorio about the fine and what would happen
if Mr. Ramirez's application was denied.
Michael Ossorio explained because Mr. Ramirez completed an application
within 45 days of receiving the Citation,the violation was abated and noted that
the fine of$300 had been paid. The case has been closed.
Chairman White summarized if the application is denied, the fine will not
increase for the next Citation. He stated the Board wanted to encourage people to
come in and make application.
Chairman White stated the average work year is approximately 2,000 hours. He
asked the Applicant to estimate how many hours of work experience he had over
the past three years.
A. Easily over 2,000. Easily.
Richard Joslin asked if the tree test that Mr. Ramirez took allowed him to trim
trees and remove as well as plant them.
Michael Ossorio stated he was correct.
Mr.Joslin asked the Applicant to explain his experience with trees.
A. I have not done any tree trimming. It was required that I take the test. I don't
have the equipment to trim trees other than knocking palm fronds down and
trimming lower branches and limbs.
Q. It's part of the license—you're allowed to do that.
A. It's a great opportunity for me but not now ... maybe in the future.
Mr. Ossorio was asked for the County's recommendation.
He stated a restricted license for landscaping could be issued, minus the trees.
The applicant could do plants and sod. He will still be able to trim hedges.
Mr. Ramirez stated if, in the future, if he acquires the equipment, he will come
before the Board to have the restriction removed.
Chairman White suggested that he work for someone who is licensed for trees
to gain the experience he will need.
Kyle Lantz moved to approve the application for a Landscaping Contractor's
license, minus the trees which include palms. Richard Joslin offered a Second
in support of the motion. Carried unanimously, 7— 0.
F. Bradley J. Garrod, Jr.—Request for Waiver of Exam(s) for Reinstatement
(d/b/a "Garrod Painting, Inc.")
It was noted that Mr. Garrod was not present. Chairman White tabled the case.
G. Mikel G. Diehl—Request for Waiver of Exam(s) for Reinstatement
(d/b/a "Florida Hardscapes and Paver maintenance,Inc.")
Michael Ossorio provided background information:
• The Applicant and his father had been licensed Paving Block Contractors for
several years.
20
April 16,2014
• They chose to close their business.
• He is before the Board to request a waiver of not only the Business Procedures
test but also the Paving Block exam.
• There are questions concerning his previous corporation.
Mickel Diehl stated:
• I believe I have enough experience with over 14 years in the industry.
• I'm pretty knowledgeable about the paving block business.
Chairman White asked Mr. Diehl to provide details about his experience.
A. I started basically with cleaning up trash from job sites to getting into more of
the repair aspect to full installations by myself and then into sales.
Richard Joslin asked who had worked for in the past.
A. I worked for my father's company,M&C Florida Pavers, Inc. and I did
everything.
Q. How long did you work for him?
A. I started when I was in high school, about 16 years old, working during the
summers. I went to school for a couple of years and then came back. I
worked for him for 5 to 6 years.
Terry Jerulle asked Mr. Diehl if he was the Qualifier for his father's company.
A. Yes, I eventually was the Qualifier for the company.
Q. And you became the Qualifier because you took the test?
A. Yes.
Q. When was the last time you took the test?
A. I believe in 2005 or 2006.
Kyle Lantz:
Q. How long has your father's company been out of business?
A. About two years.
Q. What have you been doing since then?
A. I have been working doing pressure cleaning for driveways and pool decks.
But I have been getting requests to do paver installations. That's why I'm
trying to reinstate my license.
Q. You have been working for yourself?
A. Yes, sir.
Richard Joslin stated there are a lot of derogatory things in your credit history ...
low scores from all over Florida.
Chairman White noted the Applicant's FICO score was 674 and the minimum
threshold was 660.
Vice Chairman Lykos stated there was a pending lawsuit.
Chairman White:
Q. Can you tell us anything about the State of Florida tax lien for $1,037?
A. I am not familiar with that. Is it against me?
21
April 16,2014
Q. It is against M&C Florida Pavers. It's in the commercial report. Some sort of
business taxes.
A. I believe so, yes, sir. I was just the Qualifier for the company. I was not the
owner.
Vice Chairman Lykos stated it was important that Mr. Diehl understand that as a
Qualifier, he was responsible for the company.
A. I do understand that.
Q. It's not an excuse ... not being knowledgeable about the debt of the company.
You can't tell us about the tax lien because you don't have knowledge about
that?
A. I was the Qualifier but I didn't work in the business end of it, I was doing
more of the other jobs.
Chairman White:
Q. In January, 2013, were you the Qualifier?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That's when the lien was filed. When did you become the Qualifier?
A. I believe in 2006.
Kyle Lantz:
Q. When did your license become inactive?
A. About two years ago or three years ago.
Michael Ossorio referenced the first page of the application. The fees date back
to 2011.
Kyle Lantz noted the company closed in 2011 but the lien was filed in 2013.
Chairman White stated one was for Florida Hardscapes and the other was for
M&C Florida Pavers.
A. They are two separate companies.
Kyle Lantz:
Q. But in 2013, you were not the Qualifier anymore, which is when the tax lien
was filed.
Chairman White stated the Board was talking specifically about M&C Florida
Pavers—being the Qualifier for M&C.
A. Yes, I was the Qualifier but when my license went dormant ... that's why I
was unfamiliar with the lien. My license was dormant in 2013. This must
have come up after the business was closed.
Chairman White asked if Florida Hardscapes remained active after M&C
Florida Pavers went dormant.
A. Yes, sir. I opened Florida Hardscapes to go out on my own and into the
pressure cleaning.
Q. And that one lapsed and you owe back fees from 2011 to 2013.
A. For the licensing. Yes, sir.
22
April 16,2014
Terry Jerulle asked why Mr. Diehl chose to appear before the Board rather than
just take the test.
A. To see if I could get approved without going through the testing again. I am
very knowledgeable about the paving block industry.
Q. The last time you took a test was in 2005?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you done any continuing education?
A. I was a member through"ICPI" (Interlocking Concrete Pavement Institute)
and would go to meetings.
Q. But not since the closing in 2011?
A. No, sir.
Vice Chairman Lykos:
Q. Your company is Florida Hardscapes and it was incorporated in 2010?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. There is a creditor, Gulf Coast Pavers. Can you explain the lawsuit filed in
2012 against Florida Hardscapes from Tremron, Inc. in Duval County?
A. My father and I have very similar names but my first name has a different
spelling. They thought it was part of the same company. I opened my own
company—it is separate and I own 100% of it.
Q. What is the disposition of this case?
A. Right now, I guess it's still active but they told me it was supposed to be
dropped. There was confusion over the names when it was initially filed. I
know they already received a letter from the acting attorney stating it was
supposed to be dropped. I can provide a copy of the letter.
Additional information.
• Tremron was a supplier and M&C ordered materials through them.
• M&C had to shut down due to the slowdown with building due to the
economy.
• Tremron was not paid.
• The materials ordered from Tremron could not be returned because
they had been installed.
Q. At the time this debt was incurred with Tremron, you were the Qualifer for
M&C Florida Pavers, Inc.
A. Yes, sir.
Kyle Lantz stated he had no problem waiving the testing requirement. He
further stated he was concerned about the finances. He suggested imposing a
period of probation.
Chairman White stated there may be an obligation that the Applicant may have
to fulfill if the suit from Tremron goes forward.
Kyle Lantz stated history tends to repeat itself and if it happened in the past, it
could happen again. Not everybody learns from past mistakes. If the Board puts
you on probation, there is a little extra control in place to ensure it doesn't happen
again.
23
April 16,2014
Terry Jerulle stated he would not support waiving the testing requirements. The
Applicant has not been in the industry for several years; he has not done any
continuing education.
Chairman White stated if Mr. Diehl takes the test and passes, the Board will not
be able to monitor him as Mr. Lantz suggested.
Michael Ossorio stated if he took and passed the exam; wrote a letter explaining
the pending lawsuit was actually against his father and with a credit score of 674,
a license would be issued.
County's Recommendation: To approve the application and waive the testing
but place the Applicant on a one-year probation with new credit reports, business
and personal, to be presented to the Board for review and a disposition of the
pending litigation filed in 2012.
Chairman White stated the Applicant must be voluntarily dismissed from the
suit. Because Florida Hardscapes is one of the defendants, if the suit is ongoing it
will appear on one of the credit reports. He supported probation and requirement
for new credit reports.
Chairman White moved to approve accepting the County's recommendation for
a one-year probationary period requiring Mikel Diehl to present new personal
and business[Florida HardscapesJcredit reports at the end of the probationary
period. Vice Chairman Lykos offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7—0.
H. Daniel A. Haugen—Contesting Citations #08650 and #08651
(d/b/a "Hot Concepts Fireplaces, LLC.")
Citation: #08650 ("Unlicensed Residential Contractor")
Date Issued: March 18, 2014
Fine: $2,000.00 (2nd Offense)
Description of Violation:
Engage in the business or act in the capacity of a Contractor, or advertise self or
business organization as available to engage in the business of or act in the
capacity of a Contractor, without being duly registered or certified.
Vice Chairman Lykos disclosed that he hired Daniel Haugen for a project
(installation of a fireplace insert) within the past 90 days but the relationship will
not impact his ability to be impartial.
Chairman White asked if there would be a pecuniary gain or loss.
Vice Chairman Lykos responded the job was completed. It would not affect his
judgment or his company.
Chairman White concluded there was no conflict of interest; a Form 8B was not
needed and full voting.
Daniel Haugen stated there were two separate issues: (1) whether the Citation
was valid; (2)the fine.
• I was issued a Citation prior to this by Reggie Smith for unlicensed
advertising.
24
April 16,2014
• I don't think the two are completely related and to say this is a second
offense—they are two seemingly separate issues.
• My advertising, which was just verbiage, was corrected at the time and
addressed.
• When I met with Ian Jackson, he stated because of the previous Citation,
the new Citation was considered as a"second" Citation.
• There were no prior reports of work being done outside of the license.
Chairman White noted Citation#7643, issued in June, 2013, stated the violation
was that you advertised self which was four different pieces to the Citation. The
Respondent was claiming the new violation was different piece of those four.
Daniel Haugen stated it was not in the same category—it was not necessarily
offending the same thing again. The verbiage in my advertising was corrected
and I have not violated that again.
Chairman White stated the first Citation was advertising-related and the second
one was ...
A. Unlicensed residential contractor.
Q. You entered into a contract that was beyond the scope?
A. That's the point ... that's my second comment.
Originally when I went from working for another Contractor in the area, I was
aware of what licensing that Contractor had who has been doing work in the
area for fifteen years. I went to the Licensing Office to apply for a business
license and whatever was required to operate as a business providing
fireplaces in Collier County. I was told by the office that a license was not
required, but if I wanted to do anything beyond that work, such as structural
walls, framing, drywalls, that I could apply for a Residential Contractor's
license but if I was just doing fireplaces, it was not required.
It was later confirmed by Reggie Smith whom I met with concerning the
advertising verbiage who said that he agreed with the Licensing Office that
there was no specific licensed required for providing fireplaces—only if we
were going to do work beyond providing fireplace systems, that we would
need to have a license. He gave me the information. I have since started the
process and have submitted applications for a Masonry Contractor's license
as well as a Residential Building Contractor's license.
Q. And the second of the two Citations was unlicensed residential contractor.
A. Right. That was the question I had for Reggie Smith when I met with him ...
what license do I need provide fireplaces and he said there wasn't one. And
that's why I've gone forward conducting this type of business assuming I had
the licenses I needed. I have an LP Appliance license from the State. The
installation manual for this particular fireplace states that it is intended to be
used with an LP source. Considering that, I can understand how there can be
interpretation because the parts are constructed of masonry but the manual
specifically states that the masonry pieces are to be glued together. It comes
as a kit and it's listed as a complete kit. The fireplace itself—the piping—is
all designated and outlined ... the sizing, configuration, assembly, products
used by the manufacturer. They are listed and tested which is a requirement
of the license that I carry. I am to use listed and tested products only.
25
April 16,2014
Q. You are referring to E-11 as the "Library Fireplace," for example?
A. It refers to a certain model of the Isokern brand and all the components
required to assemble it are provided by the manufacturer. It states the specific
products and exactly how they are to be used. It's not like a full masonry
fireplace where it's left to the interpretation of the Code or the installer to
decide venting requirements or sizing. I have over 20 years of experience in
building fireplaces. This is like comparing an oil change with building a car.
Terry Jerulle:
Q. When you said "provide"—does that mean to furnish and install?
A. I guess it depends, again, on the definition of"installation" because that's one
of the things I discussed with Reggie Smith. He said if you're delivering and
setting up the fireplace ...installation might be considered ... if I say I'm
installing a gas fireplace, he said the verbiage would include the connection to
the gas line which is why I agreed to change it because we're not doing that.
We don't do any of the framing and we don't do any gas line connection—no
electrical. 99%of the work that we do is for General Contractors. Our Scope
of Work is specific to providing a specific product with specific directions in
a specific listing.
Q. To answer my question, "providing"means furnishing and installing?
A. I guess that would be correct.
Q. I want the other members of the Board to understand that you are providing
pieces and parts, and you go into the field and assembling those pieces and
parts.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I want to make sure some of the members of the Board understand that.
A. The reason why I chose to use the word"provide" is due to the discussion I
had with Reggie Smith who said if I used the word "installation" of a gas
fireplace or electric fireplace, it assumes that I am doing electrical wiring or
gas lines or gas connections which we do not.
Q. I think it's important for the Board that when you furnish as refrigerator, you
plug in the refrigerator. When you say you are providing a fireplace, people
on the Board may not understand what's involved with that. I had you run
through that because you are providing pieces and parts. And then you go into
the field and you assemble those pieces and parts.
A. Yes, sir.
Chairman White requested a breakdown of the pieces in the contract that are
shown on E-11, 12 and 13.
• Building the Base: Is that the piece of the contract that is outside the
scope of your license?
A. If the base requires anything other than the parts provided by the
manufacturer, then the Contractor has to do the additional work. For
example, in most cases (and in this case), the fireplace was set in place—
assembled—on a concrete footing foundation. We did not pour the
foundation. The foundation was there, in place, by the General Contractor or
whoever they subcontracted to pour the concrete floor. If there's any concrete
26
April 16,2014
block built under, on, or around the fireplace, it's done by the General
Contractor or the sub. When we refer to the "base,"the fireplace has the
option of using their provided base or eliminating it depending on the height
they want the fireplace opening to be. For example, the base is three inches.
If you set that on a concrete floor with the fire brick added, it's going to be a
4 1/2-inch height. If you remove the 3-inch base, then your total finished floor
height is an inch and three-quarters to an inch and three-eighths. The
Contractors like that information because they want to make sure that we
understand that the fireplace ends up at the proper height according to their
architect's design or design specifications. If the Contractor says we want it
six feet off the floor,they have to provide something other than the three
inches we provide.
Q. I appreciate the detail. What I hear you saying is that as to the library, the
great room and the lanai, a base was provided by someone else.
A. Yes.
Q. Let's jump to "B." You did the construction of the box—that's all stuff that
came from the manufacturer and your job is to assemble it, correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was the same thing for all three fireplaces.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. "C"—Build the Firebox. You are using fire brick. Is that within the scope of
your license?
A. The fire brick isn't actually built on site. It's provided as panels. We don't
build brick. That might be a misunderstanding if you look at it as a masonry
project. We're not individually laying bricks. We're providing a panel made
up of individual bricks and they are put into the fireplace.
Q. And you assemble those?
A. Right.
Q. What about the item for"grouting fire brick joints using mortar?"
A. That's the same as ...
Q. In the scope or outside the scope?
A. Ummm ...
Q. Your opinion.
A. It's something we do ... it's within the directions for the fireplace,
specifically to give guidelines of what grout has to be used and how it's to be
done. It's all part of the listing instructions provided by the manufacturer.
There is no room for interpretation. If I was completely ignorant of masonry
ability, they are providing all of the guidelines regarding what kind of mortar
is to be used and how much; how thick the mortar joints can be; how it is to
be filled in; etc.
Q. The only other thing that's different as to the great room and lanai is with
respect to metal flue venting and the terminations thereof. Those are within
or outside the scope of your license?
A. I believe it's within because it's again part of the listed system. The
installation manual provides guidelines and specific direction of exactly what
flue needs to be used unlike a masonry fireplace where you would have to
decipher and mechanically engineer the flue size. In this case, it's given to
27
April 16,2014
you exactly—the size and exact material to be used. There's no option or
choice.
Ian Jackson, Licensing Compliance Officer, stated the basis for the Citation is
the County's position that multiple trades were contracted with in the
construction or installation of these fire box/fireplace kits.
Chairman White asked what were the specific trades.
Mr. Jackson replied the County's position in this particular contract, at
minimum, is masonry and mechanical. And with mechanical being a
subcontractor trade ... not a Specialty Contractor trade, that's where the
residential license and the Citation was noted as residential.
Chairman White asked Mr. Jackson to address the penalty and the dollar
amount, the contention by Mr. Haugen that they are essentially different
violations and the penalty should not be stepped up to the higher amount.
Ian Jackson responded the County's position is that it is the same Section
number in Florida Statutes: "Engage in the business or act in the capacity of a
Contractor or advertise self or business organization ..."
Chairman White stated the County's Code, 2006-46 in 1.1.1 is the same as the
Statutes?
Daniel Haugen stated he had a conversation with Ian Jackson who stated there
were two completely separate issues. I could not use the conversation with
Reggie Smith to defend myself against the accusation of this violation.
Chairman White stated what he heard Mr. Haugen say about his conversation
with Reggie Smith had more to do with the scope of work and whether or not you
should use some other trades license to do this.
Mr. Haugen stated it seemed as if the County stated if the work is not being done
by a subcontractor, it must be done by him.
Richard Joslin asked if this Citation would also be listed as a Second Offense
and was that the reason why the fine was so much larger.
Mr. Jackson replied each of the Citations was considered to be a"Second"
offense.
There was a lengthy discussion during which Mr. Haugen described the
installation process and what was required from the General Contractor in order
to install the fireplace.
Mr. Haugen summarized: "We assemble the fireplace. Whether the Contractor
frames it in before or after, we have no involvement with that other than
providing the Contractor with the installation manual."
It was noted the manual states to assemble with epoxy—not mortar.
Vice Chairman Lykos asked Mr. Haugen if he installed the pipe that carried
burnt gas from the house and the response was "Yes."
He then asked if Mr. Haugen had a license for HVAC and the response was
"No."
Michael Ossorio stated the County wished to introduce a witness.
28
April 16,2014
Terry Jerulle asked Mr. Haugen if he had any licenses.
A. I have the LP Gas Appliance license. It is a State license.
Mr. Haugen reiterated he asked the Contractors' Licensing Office what would
be required of him to install fireplaces: Reggie Smith stated it could be
considered "mechanical"but he was not required to obtain a Mechanical
Contractor's license because he was not sizing ducts or installing them, or
doing air-conditioning or heating systems or any of the things that fall within
that license. My understanding of what I was required to obtain as a license
was dictated by a person who has already been doing work in Collier County
in addition to the questions I asked the Licensing Office.
Vice Chairman Lykos stated part of the problem was, in his opinion, Mr.
Haugen was misrepresenting was a true fireplace installation could be. He further
stated that Mr. Haugen down-played what was being represented. Installing a
fireplace can be comprehensive and include masonry, gas, electric, and
ventilation. He continued, "What you are trying to get everybody to believe was
installing a fireplace is as simple as throwing something in a hole and walking
away when, in fact, it can be very comprehensive." He concluded, "Just because
you have a 45-page manual doesn't mean that you have the license or
qualifications to install venting for a gas fireplace in a house."
Daniel Haugen stated he asked Reggie Smith and Ian Jackson what license they
thought he should have and he would obtain it. He further stated he had
submitted his application to obtain al Residential Contractor's license. He
continued by stating, "Up to this point, I was not aware that was required of me."
Chairman White asked why Mr. Haugen was not an LP Gas Installer which
would allow him more options.
His conclusion was that Mr. Haugen needed more such as a Masonry Contractor's
or Mechanical Contractor's license.
Vice Chairman Lykos supported the need for a Masonry Contractor's license.
Lengthy discussion continued.
Kyle Lantz moved to approve upholding Citation #8650. Richard Joslin
offered a Second in support of the motion. Carried unanimously, 7—0.
Citation: #08651 ("Unlicensed Residential Contractor")
Date Issued: March 18, 2014
Fine: $2,000.00 (2' Offense)
Description of Violation:
Engage in the business or act in the capacity of a Contractor, or advertise self or
business organization as available to engage in the business of or act in the
capacity of a Contractor, without being duly registered or certified.
Daniel Haugen:
• My objection to this Citation is we are providing brick panels for the
fireplace.
29
April 16,2014
• We did not build the fireplace. It was built by a Masonry Contractor who
installed the flu pipe.
• I was hired as a consultant.
• The person who made the complaint against me once worked for the same
employer that I did. This person does not have any type of license.
• If I had been given clear direction from the County three or more years
ago, I would have obtained by General Contractors' License and my
Masonry License.
• I didn't intentionally enter into a contract to do something I was not
allowed to do.
• I have applied for my Residential Contractor's License.
Chairman White stated he objected to the County's use of a previously issued
Citation to enhance the penalty. Because there is a crack in the system, this man
is being nicked twice, especially since he did not do the work. He supported
dismissing the Citation and the fine.
Attorney James Morey advised the Board concerning its options: uphold the
Citation or dismiss it. If the Citation is upheld,the fine must remain as initially
assessed or it can be increased. The Board cannot reduce the fine.
Michael Ossorio explained the changes in the Code.
Chairman White moved to approve dismissing the Citation. Gary McNally
offered a Second in support of the motion. Motion carried, 4— "Yes"/3— "No."
Terry Jerulle, Kyle Lantz, and Vice Chairman Lykos were opposed.
I. Adriano Cordero—Review of Credit Report(s)
(d/b/a "Eco System Paint,LLC.")
Michael Ossorio offered background information:
• Mr. Cordero's business is less than 12 months old.
• There are some issues with his credit history.
Adriano Cordero:
• He was unemployed for the past 2 '/z years.
• He was able to make some payments: Gulf Coast Collections; Florida
Power & Light; A/R Resources
• He has an affidavit of Financial Support from his brother-in-law
Chairman White moved to approve tabling the Case until the next meeting.
Vice Chairman Lykos offered a Second in support of the motion. Carried
unanimously, 7—0.
VII. OLD BUSINESS:
(None)
30
April 16,2014
IX. REPORTS:
(None)
X. MEMBER COMMENTS:
(None)
XI. NEXT MEETING DATE: Wednesday, May 21, 2014
BCC Chambers, 3rd Floor—Administrative Building"F,"
Government Complex, 3301 E. Tamiami Trail,Naples, FL
There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned
by the order of the Chairman at 1:45 PM.
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS
LICENSING BOARD
P
tt
PATRIC W TE, Chairman
The Minutes were approved by the Board/Committee Chair on 0)* , 2014,
"as submitted"\\ OR "as amended" [ 1.
31
FORM 8B MEMORANDUM OF VOTING CONFLICT FOR
COUNTY, MUNICIPAL, AND OTHER LOCAL PUBLIC OFFICERS
LAST LE N ME OF: OU OMMISSIO TH • TT V,
MAI G�Q RESS 1 , ``;,\ THE BOARD,COUNCIL,COMMISSION,AUTHORITY OR COMMITTEE ON
f./ Jf�{"`'.u,1:F1l1 WHICH I SERVE IS A UNIT OF:
CITY c �y CO�UyN`T ❑CITY ❑COUNTY ❑OTHER LOCAL AGENCY
tttt t�,: � NAME C� ITUBDIVI N:i`�\
DATE ON WHIG VOTE QCCI@Rkp) i MY POSITION IS:
Ir\t ` 1 ❑ ELECTIVE APPOINTIVE
WHO MUST FILE FORM 8B
This form is for use by any person serving at the county, city, or other local level of government on an appointed or elected board, council,
commission, authority, or committee. It applies to members of advisory and non-advisory bodies who are presented with a voting conflict of
interest under Section 112.3143, Florida Statutes.
Your responsibilities under the law when faced with voting on a measure in which you have a conflict of interest will vary greatly depending
on whether you hold an elective or appointive position. For this reason, please pay close attention to the instructions on this form before
completing and filing the form.
INSTRUCTIONS FOR COMPLIANCE WITH SECTION 112.3143, FLORIDA STATUTES
A person holding elective or appointive county, municipal, or other local public office MUST ABSTAIN from voting on a measure which
would inure to his or her special private gain or loss. Each elected or appointed local officer also MUST ABSTAIN from knowingly voting on
a measure which would inure to the special gain or loss of a principal (other than a government agency) by whom he or she is retained
(including the parent, subsidiary, or sibling organization of a principal by which he or she is retained);to the special private gain or loss of a
relative; or to the special private gain or loss of a business associate. Commissioners of community redevelopment agencies(CRAs)under
Sec. 163.356 or 163.357, F.S., and officers of independent special tax districts elected on a one-acre, one-vote basis are not prohibited
from voting in that capacity.
For purposes of this law, a "relative" includes only the officer's father, mother, son, daughter, husband, wife, brother, sister, father-in-law,
mother-in-law, son-in-law, and daughter-in-law.A"business associate" means any person or entity engaged in or carrying on a business
enterprise with the officer as a partner,joint venturer, coowner of property, or corporate shareholder(where the shares of the corporation
are not listed on any national or regional stock exchange).
ELECTED OFFICERS:
In addition to abstaining from voting in the situations described above, you must disclose the conflict:
PRIOR TO THE VOTE BEING TAKEN by publicly stating to the assembly the nature of your interest in the measure on which you are
abstaining from voting; and
WITHIN 15 DAYS AFTER THE VOTE OCCURS by completing and filing this form with the person responsible for recording the
minutes of the meeting,who should incorporate the form in the minutes.
« « « « « «
APPOINTED OFFICERS:
Although you must abstain from voting in the situations described above, you are not prohibited by Section 112.3143 from otherwise
participating in these matters. However, you must disclose the nature of the conflict before making any attempt to influence the decision,
whether orally or in writing and whether made by you or at your direction.
IF YOU INTEND TO MAKE ANY ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE THE DECISION PRIOR TO THE MEETING AT WHICH THE VOTE WILL BE
TAKEN:
• You must complete and file this form (before making any attempt to influence the decision)with the person responsible for recording the
minutes of the meeting,who will incorporate the form in the minutes. (Continued on page 2)
CE FORM 8B-EFF. 11/2013
PAGE 1
Adopted by reference in Rule 34-7.010(1)(f),F.A.C.
APPOINTED OFFICERS (continued)
• A copy of the form must be provided immediately to the other members of the agency.
• The form must be read publicly at the next meeting after the form is filed.
IF YOU MAKE NO ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE THE DECISION EXCEPT BY DISCUSSION AT THE MEETING:
• You must disclose orally the nature of your conflict in the measure before participating.
• You must complete the form and file it within 15 days after the vote occurs with the person responsible for recording the minutes of the
meeting,who must incorporate the form in the minutes.A copy of the form must be provided immediately to the other members of the
agency, and the form must be read publicly at the next meeting after the form is filed.
�(``��{{ DISCLOSURE OF LOCAL OFFICER'S INTEREST
I, p> PAC^ \A 7 } , hereby disclose that on .t. )\ \4 ,20
(a)A measure came or will come before my agency which(check one or more)
inured to my special private gain or loss;
inured to the special gain or loss of my business associate, ,
inured to the special gain or loss of my rel tive,
•
inured to the special gain or loss of . ' $ i P RI , by
whom I am retained; or
inured to the special gain or loss of ,which
is the parent subsidiary, or sibling organization or subsidiary of a principal which has retained me.
(b)The measure before my agency and the naturreeoof my onflicting inter in the measure is as follows: ^
-1W CX)*ODY) V* lik\elfr R,\INk \i‘,}3,1 tk Thi -*ti\))- TA)), gibo -.
If disclosure of specific information would violate confidentiality or privilege pursuant to law or rules governing attorneys, a public officer,
who is also an attorney, may comply with the disclosure requirements of this section by disclosing the nature of the interest in such a way
as to provide the public with notice of the conflict.
1 \4Vj? 4014
4Th lb
Date Filed Signature
NOTICE: UNDER PROVISIONS OF FLORIDA STATUTES §112.317, A FAILURE TO MAKE ANY REQUIRED DISCLOSURE
CONSTITUTES GROUNDS FOR AND MAY BE PUNISHED BY ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING: IMPEACHMENT,
REMOVAL OR SUSPENSION FROM OFFICE OR EMPLOYMENT, DEMOTION, REDUCTION IN SALARY, REPRIMAND, OR A
CIVIL PENALTY NOT TO EXCEED$10,000.
CE FORM 8B-EFF. 11/2013 PAGE 2
Adopted by reference in Rule 34-7.010(1)(f),F.A.C.