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Minutes 07/10/1991 S Parks & Recreation Advisory Board ( PARAB ) Minutes June 10 , 1991 MINUTES PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD Golden Gate Community Park, Administrative Office Naples, Florida Wednesday, July 10, 1991 PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman Mr. Gil Mueller, Vice-Chairman Ms. Geneva Till Ms. Cherryle Thomas I. Call To Order: The meeting began at 1:35 p.m. II. Pledge Of Allegiance To The Flag III. New Business/Presentations: A. Summer Food Service Grant Program: An Executive Summary was distributed regarding the Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners authorize the Collier County School Board to provide prepared food for the Summer Food Service Grant Program. This Executive Summary is a formality necessary to process the payments to the School Board for preparing the lunches. Ms. Geneva Till motioned to accept the Executive Summary to provide food for summer food service program. Motion seconded by Ms. Cherryle Thomas. Passed 3/0 vote. Mr. Gil Mueller abstained from voting as he arrived in the middle of the discussion. B. Productivity Committee Report (Draft): MURDO'S COMMENTS: The Productivity Committee met with staff at the Golden Gate Community Park. I agree with the Report overall, particularly in the areas of parking, and boat launching fees, we should look at ways of implementing the recommendations. I disagree with the Park Ranger Program - it is not an offshoot of the Sheriff's Department. Since the Committee has met with staff, the issuing of citations has gone before the BCC and approved, the County Attorney's office is clearing up some issues. The Committee looked at the Racquet Club as being a self supporting facility. However, it is one of the five (5) Community Parks. Beach parking fees should be consistent. The Board, at the Budget hearing, directed staff to review the $96,000 submitted to the City of Naples for parking at City beaches. Commissioner Volpe brought up the question of a Task Force to study the beach issues. Basically the report was good overall. The Productivity Committee recognized that we need more Recreation staff. There was no concern regarding the Maintenance Section, although the committee suggested standardizing the equipment. We have tried to do that in the past but can not due to the bid system. We tried using the same type lighting at the ball fields, using Musco the first time. The next time we had to go with the low bidder. We try to specify good quality equipment. Fleet Management reviews the specifications and we take the recommendation to PARAB and the BCC. The report addressed the athletic fees - revenues are fairly even with the cost. There will be a fee increase of $5 in the Fall for Softball participants. The Committee did not like the YMCA using our 1 % centers, and recommended hiring all the Recreation people back. The Committee II: questioned the Park Ranger program and wanted it abolished. Comments from the BCC that I heard were concerning the beach parking issue, boat launching issue, revenues at the Racquet Center by Commissioner Shanahan, and improvements that could be made to increase revenues. Mr. Gil Mueller motioned that In consideration of the fact that we have spent a substantial amount of time historically on beach access issues and fee issues, as well as other issues related to the beaches, we would like to recommend to the County Commission that: 1 . All members of PARAB be a core committee to make recommendations to BCC on the beach access issue and fees and any other beach issues. 2. Hold public meetings which will be well publicized to provide for maximum public participation on this issue. Seconded by Ms. Geneva Till. Motion approved unanimously. Back to Productivity Report - The BCC has already received this report from the Productivity Committee, prior I to going into the budget hearings. Staff has only received a draft report, and believe that the original is not much different. Mr. Gil Mueller questioned why the BCC would accept the suggestions, recommendations, alterations, etc. that are in the report, from the Productivity Committee without input from PARAB. Chairman Kobza commented that the BCC independently asked this Committee to 1 4P report on productivity and efficiency. We have a copy of their report, and we can take the initiative to make recommendations to the Board in light of these Committee's recommendations. The BCC have not yet gone through their final budget hearings, and have only gone through their preliminary workshops. Mr. Gil Mueller commented, "After reading the Committee's report, his viewpoint was that there are several of the things that are way off and blatantly wrong. For example, the total lack of any vandalism or crime at the beaches. I talked to the Sub Commander on Marco, and he gave me an off the top figure of how much Vandalism, car break in's at Tigertail beach. At two or three a week, over a period of a year, how can they say there's no crime at our beaches. I think they are way off base in the Ranger Program. Since the Commissioners have received this, and if they've formulated some opinions, then will our suggestions and recommendations to them at this point really have any impact? Commissioner Shanahan has approached me and asked for recommendations. " Chairman Kobza commented, that he assumes that any recommendation that PARAB would choose to make would be considered, and assumes that for anything we send to them, and that they have a fair amount of respect for PARAB . He also commented, "I don' t feel that I have the information whether to agree or disagree with them one way or the other. . . .The Racquet Club, I have no feel for whatsoever. I know philosophically, that I think I disagree the recommendations on certain philosophical statement, but beyond that, in terms of numbers, I'm really quite unfamiliar with what their numbers are. The Productivity Committee requested parking meters be installed at Beach & Ramp accesses, not to staff, and have the Park Rangers go around and pick up the money out of the parking meters. Ms. Geneva Till suggested that we have enough work here for a full year. Today O we're just spinning our wheels to try to cover too much ground. She feels that this Committee has come up with some good ideas, it's not all bad, and we really should 2 consider it. If we want to be the core group, PARAB should address each one of these items individually, and find out how can we improve, or do we feel that this ilVf is the way it should be, and then make our recommendations. Ms. Geneva Till motioned that we have received the Productivity Committee's report and that we will address each of the items at depth, with public input, so that we can make a knowledgable determination, and present that to the County Board of Commissioners. Chairman Kobza, "OK, so that's a motion. . . " . Ms. Cherryle Thomas seconded. The motion passed unanimously with a 4-0 vote. Mr. Gil Mueller commented that he doesn' t feel that the metered lights were too successful. That when the lights go on at Barfield tennis courts at 4:00 in the afternoon and then burn until 10:00 at night, and sometimes there isn' t a sole around playing tennis, seven days a week. To him it's a big waste of money. Mr. Murdo Smith commented that is wrong if they come on at 4:00, the timer should be checked. Mr. Murdo Smith, "I would also like a chance to respond. For example, we have tried several times at our outlying tennis facilities (i.e. Tommie Barfield, Naples Park, Avalon) to put coin meters on, timers on with switches, we've tried them several times, but they were so costly to have an electrician go out there and repair them every night. . . " Mr. Gil Mueller, "They were vandalized?" . Mr. Murdo Smith, "Yes. It's unbelievable, they would take bats and knock them off. Usually what we try to do is to put timers on, so the people would shut them off. Perhaps the one at Marco is not functioning properly, or has been vandalized. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "I've talked to people that live in that area, and many nights there's absolutely no one on the tennis courts, and those lights are blazing four or five hours. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "We've got some extra meters, and we could possibly I install one there and give it a try. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "I'm told, that at the Racquet Club, that there is a considerable demand for evening tennis, and the reason that people can' t be accommodated, is because there isn' t adequate lighting. We have two courts lit, as I recall. That would be a revenue producing situation. Why then did we turn around and put lights at Barfield, where (A) there's no revenue, (B) they're burning when there's nobody in site?" Mr. Murdo Smith commented, "I'll give you the answer. Number one, Barfield was built in 1975 and the tennis courts were lit at that time. We purchased the Racquet Club in 1985, from a gentleman by the name of Chris Blunt for approximately $230,000. So the Barfield tennis courts and ballfield were there prior to the County acquiring the Racquet Club. It's been put in the budget several times to light those courts, but it's always been removed, because it's $27,000 we don' t want to spend right now. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "As long as we're on tennis on Marco, I have difficulty understanding why the Racquet Club isn' t a money producing situation. At least break even! I'm not saying that's the objective of Parks and Recreation to make money, it's not a business, but that revenue can be used to sustain other areas that go in the red every year. And I'm sure it does all the time. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "I've discussed this with a lot of members there, just about every member there, and with the exception of one fellow, there wasn' t anybody that wouldn' t object to an increase in membership fees, because they know it's a tremendous deal! Go somewhere else on the island and try to buy a family membership for $150 or $175 or whatever it is. I don' t think that would be a problem, I think we've got to raise fees, and I have a lot of other ideas and suggestions as far as the Racquet Club, because it's my second home on Marco, but I don' t want to go into all that now. Mr. Gil Mueller, "May I ask a couple more questions? I got the impression from this report that we are doing landscaping for the Sheriff's Dept. , the Library, the Schools. They said that in there. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "No sir. It's incorrect. The I CV report states that, and they've corrected it, we do not physically do the landscaping ourselves at the Sheriff's substations, or the Libraries except in 3 Immokalee. I think that when the Productivity Committee first got the impression that we perform that work, they did not realize that it was a contracted service. We do pay for the contracted service. " Mr. Gil Mueller was brought up to date on the YMCA agreement by Mr. Murdo Smith. Ms. Geneva Till motioned to adjourn. The bids have come in for Bluebill property, staff has not yet seen them. However, staff thinks that the County Manager's Office and the Real Property Dept. are going to get together to make some options on what to do with the property. There was a concern about the fact that some Commissioners would like to see Bluebill remain as a County piece of property used possibly as a parking lot for beaches. The question was, since the citizens of Vanderbilt Beach area did not like the Boat Ramp facility being there, would they object to having a parking lot there, which is basically the same thing as a boat ramp. That was one of the concerns that was brought to me, and if I would ask this board if they had a concern about it. Mr. Kobza stated, "When that issue goes to the board, I'm going to be very articulate and very vocal as to what happens to that property. " Because, they could go right across the street and for probably $20,000 or $30,000 an acre, they can buy as much land as their hearts content. Mr. Murdo Smith, "There's also an easement right across the street, that the County has, that's 50' wide. " Chairman Kobza, "The road sits on the south 50' of the easement, and the north 50' is currently un-utilized. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "Also, I brought up the fact about the piece of property that the Colliers have across from Vanderbilt. I think what they want to do, is get all those options in a package, even Conklin Point, there's some things happening up there with the Westinghouse Development. The Real Property Dept. is vier going to write a letter to Barron Collier's and see if they're interested in selling. Those things will probably be coming back to PARAB soon. Mr. Murdo Smith, "From what I've heard, the options are ranging from, they may reject all the bids, to selling the property up their own. . . " Chairman Kobza, "Which would be a disaster. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "I don' t know what they're going to recommend, but that's options that they always have to keep open. They may even try to purchase that with some Impact Fee money in the North Naples area, if they can. " Chairman Kobza, "It's a wonderful idea!" Mr. Gil Mueller asked which issues will be discussed at the next regular meeting. Mr. Murdo Smith, "The Board has already directed us to go ahead and pursue charging boat launch fees at 951, Bayview Park, and Lake Trafford at their June 28th meeting. That will be going back into the budget, with a fee collection system there (i.e. Parking Meters) . " It was suggested to discuss boat launch fees at PARAB's next meeting. It was decided to discuss the Park Ranger Program in further detail. Ms. Nannette Klein, Park Ranger Supervisor, will be at the next meeting to present a program to PARAB . IV. Adjournment: Mr. Gil Mueller motioned to adjourn, Ms. Geneva Till seconded the motion, and the motion passed unanimously with a 4-0 vote. I 46 4 MINUTES (long version) PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD Golden Gate Community Park, Administrative Office Naples, Florida Wednesday, July 10, 1991 PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman Mr. Gil Mueller, Vice-Chairman Ms. Geneva Till Ms. Cherryle Thomas I. CALL TO ORDER: The meeting began at 1:35 p.m. II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG III. PRODUCTIVITY COMMITTEE REPORT: As Mr. Gil Mueller was not present, but expected to attend, the discussion of the Committee's report was postponed until his arrival. An Executive Summary was distributed regarding the Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners authorize the Collier County School Board to provide prepared food for the Summer Food Service Grant Program. For the past seven (7) years the Department has applied and received a grant for moneys to supply lunches to children in the summer camp program. This year more areas have met the State's criteria and approximately 9,000 lunches will be served. The lunches are prepared in school cafeterias and then distributed to the various camp locations. All moneys expended are reimbursable through the Grant. This Executive Summary is a formality necessary to process the payments to the School Board for preparing the lunches. Ms. Geneva Till motioned to accept the Executive Summary to provide food for summer food service program. Motion seconded by Ms. Cherryle Thomas. Passed 3/0 vote. Mr. Gil Mueller abstained from voting as he arrived in the middle of the discussion. PRODUCTIVITY COMMITTEE: Discussion of the Report proceeded as follows: (1) How Murdo views the report, (2) Report on how it is impacting the Budget process, and (3) Specific questions on data used and some examples. (1) How Murdo views the report: The Productivity Committee met with staff at the Golden Gate Community Park. I agree with the Report overall, particularly on the subjects of parking, and boat launching fees, and should look at ways of implementing the recommendations. I disagree with the Park Ranger Program - it is not an offshoot of the Sheriff's Department. Since the Committee has met with staff, the issuing of citations has gone before the BCC and been approved, and the County Attorney's office is clearing up some issues. The Committee looks at the Racquet Club as being a self supporting facility. However, it is just a section of the five (5) parks, and was not intended when purchased that revenue generated would make it self supporting. Beach parking fees should be consistent. The Board, at the Budget hearing, directed us to review the $96,000 submitted to the City of Naples for parking at City beaches. Commissioner Volpe brought 1 up the question of a Task Force to study the beach issues. Basically the report was good overall. They recognized that we need more Recreation staff. There was no concern regarding the Maintenance Section, although they suggested standardizing the equipment. We have tried to do that but cannot due to the bid system. We tried using the same type lighting at the ball fields, using Musco the first time. The next time we had to go with the low bidder. We try to specify good quality equipment. Fleet Management reviews the specifications and we take the recommendation to PARAB and the BCC. The report addressed the athletic fees - revenues are fairly even with the cost. There will be a fee increase of $5 in the Fall for Softball participants. The Committee did not like the YMCA using our centers, and recommended hiring all the Recreation people back. The Committee questioned the Park Ranger program and wanted it abolished. Comments from the BCC that I heard were concerning the beach parking issue, boat launching issue, revenues at the Racquet Center by Commissioner Shanahan, and improvements that could be made to increase revenues. Mr. Gil Mueller motioned that In consideration of the fact that we have spent a substantial amount of time historically on beach access issues and fee issues, as well as other issues related to the beaches, we would like to recommend to the County Commission that: 1 . All members of PARAB be a core committee to make recommendations to BCC on the beach access issue and fees and any other beach issues. 2. Hold public meetings which will be well publicized to provide for maximum public participation on this issue. Seconded by Ms. Geneva Till. Motion approved unanimously. Back to Productivity Report - The BCC has already received this report from the Productivity Committee, prior to going into the budget hearings. Staff has only received a draft report, and believe that the original is not much different. Mr. Murdo Smith commented, "I don' t know if the BCC is looking for any recommendation from this Board pertaining to that. But, we've gone through the first set of Budget Hearings, and we've addressed capital and operational, and they've brought up some of their questions about he Productivity Committee's report at those Hearings and they've already kind of dealt with those. " We have had our first Hearing on the Capital and on the Operations budget. Mr. Gil Mueller questioned why the BCC would accept the suggestions, recommendations, alterations, etc. that are in the report, from the Productivity Committee without input from PARAB. Chairman Kobza commented that the BCC independently asked this Committee to report on productivity and efficiency. We have a copy of their report, and we can take the initiative to make recommendations to the Board in light of these Committee's recommendations. The BCC have not yet gone through their final budget hearings, and have only gone through their preliminary workshops. Mr. Gil Mueller commented, "After reading the Committee's report, his viewpoint was that there are several of the things that are way off and blatantly wrong. For example, the total lack of any vandalism or crime at the beaches. I talked to the Sub Commander on Marco, and he gave me an off the top figure of how much Vandalism, 2 car break in's at Tigertail beach. At two or three a week, over a period of a year, how can they say there's no crime at our beaches. I think they are way off base in the Ranger Program. Since the Commissioners have received this, and if they've formulated some opinions, then will our suggestions and recommendations to them at this point really have any impact? Commissioner Shanahan has approached me and asked for recommendations. " Chairman Kobza commented, that he assumes that any recommendation that PARAB would choose to make would be considered, and assumes that for anything we send to them, and that they have a fair amount of respect for PARAB. He also commented, "I don' t feel that I have the information at to whether to agree or disagree with them one way or the other. . . .The Racquet Club, I have no feel for whatsoever. I know philosophically, that I think I disagree the recommendations on certain philosophical tangents, but beyond that, in terms of numbers, I'm really quite unfamiliar with what their numbers are. A better example is, the parking permit fee. They sited a cost in here of Beach Parking Fees currently costing the County $358,000 to staff, maintain, and protect the beach facilities. When we had the discussion on the fee, Mr. Kevin O'Donnell, former Public Services Administrator, has a worksheet for us that broke down the cost, and as I remember it the total cost that he used was about $120,000 and so the whole theory of the $1 .00 fee was we were at Tigertail we're making money above and beyond our costs, at Vanderbilt we're breaking even, Clam Pass at one point we were behind, but then it came up to breaking even, and Barefoot we never quite knew what to do with and we knew that wasn' t going to break even because it didn' t have enough spots. So the question is, what gets into these numbers?" Mr. Murdo Smith commented that they're factoring in everything that was associated with the operation of (i.e. Vanderbilt Beach) . The one that you had, Kim, was basically what it cost to operate that little booth. This took into effect picking up Garbage on the beach, dumpsters, travel time, everything that you can think of. Chairman Kobza commented that tremendously powerful perceptions are being made on the basis of this report. The Committee thought that a lot of these programs ought to pay for themselves (i.e. Athletics, Tennis, Racquetball) . Mr. Murdo Smith commented that he doesn' t think that we could ever get to that point, because we have so many different type of facilities. Mr. Gil Mueller commented, that there are some places that do not pay for themselves and never will (i.e. 951 boat ramp, Plumber Park, Tommie Barfield) . There are certain parks throughout the County that don' t pay for themselves and they never will. However, Mr. Mueller agreed that there are some areas that absolutely should pay for themselves, and they aren' t at the present time. There are some sites that should be making money for us, and those sites will have to sustain other sites that can' t make money for us. It's got to be a balance, I have to agree with them in many things. The Committee used the word "entrepreneurial" , it can never be run as a business per se, but I think there are areas that we can make money on, never make money on, and break even on. Mr. Gil Mueller was in full agreement that we've got to raise parking fees, and that we've got to standardize this thing. Mr. Murdo Smith commented that because of the political aspects, inconsistencies are caused. The Productivity Committee didn' t look at it from a Political aspect. The Productivity Committee wants parking meters installed at a lot of these areas, 3 and not to staff it with anyone, and have the Park Rangers go around and pick up the money out of the parking meters. It was suggested to use one site experimentally to finalize this issue conclusively to know whether parking meters are proper or not (i.e. Vanderbilt) . Perhaps if there were parking meters there, we may make additional revenue. Mr. Murdo Smith commented that the Commissioners to review the issue of installing Parking Meters at the boat launch facilities, (i.e. Bayview, 951, and Lake Trafford) . So it was put back in the budget and will again by reviewed. The City has them, and they work. Ms. Geneva Till suggested that we have enough work here for a full year. Today we're just spinning our wheels to try to cover too much ground. She feels that this Committee has come up with some good ideas, it's not all bad, and we really should consider it. If we want to be the core group, PARAB should address each one of these items individually, and find out how can we improve, or do we feel that this is the way it should be, and then make our recommendations. Chairman Kobza suggested that along those lines maybe a Resolution to the BCC would be, just an informative one. Resolves that we will examine each of the issue addressed by the Productivity Committee and make seperate recommendations to the County Board of Commissioners. Mr. Gil Mueller commented that he agrees with Mrs. Till, that this is so involved and complex, that he has developed 13 pages of notes just going through it. However, there are some things here that we need to address immediately in lieu of the Budget Hearings. Ms. Geneva Till motioned that we have received the Productivity Committee's report and that we will address each of the items at depth, with public input, so that we can make a knowledgable determination, and present that to the County Board of Commissioners. Chairman Kobza, "So the motion is to resolve that we acknowledge receipt of the report, and to inform the County Board that we will address each issue. .1" Mr. Gil Mueller, " . . .because of the complexity, we are going to address each issue. . . " . Chairman Kobza, " . . .in our public meetings. . . . " Mr. Gil Mueller, "Why don' t we say that we will address a number of issues in each of our meetings, and that we will report to them as we are able to review these things. " Chairman Kobza, "OK, so that's a motion. . . " . Ms. Cherryle Thomas seconded. Chairman Kobza, "The only thing that I want to say, is that I think that's very important, because I do think I strongly disagree with some of the conclusions in here, and it really goes beyond the scope of us sitting here today and trying to resolve it. Although, I do think that we're probably going to spend quite a bit of time. . . " Ms. Geneva Till, "Well, I think so too, and this Productivity Committee should be here too on some of these things that we're talking about. . .They don' t know all about the things that we've been talking about goes into that. " The motion passed unanimously with a 4-0 vote. Mr. Gil Mueller commented that he doesn' t feel that the metered lights were too successful. That when the lights go on at Barfield tennis courts at 4:00 in the afternoon and then burn until 10:00 at night, and sometimes there isn' t a sole around playing tennis, seven days a weed. To him it's a big waste of money. Mr. Murdo Smith commented that is wrong if they come on at 4:00, the timer should be checked. Mr. Murdo Smith, "I would also like a chance to respond to some of those things if you have questions like that. For example, we have tried several times at our outlying tennis facilities (i.e. Tommie Barfield, Naples Park, Avalon) where we put coin meters on, timers on with switches, we've tried them several times, but 4 they got to be so costly to have an electrician go out there and repair those every night. . . " Mr. Gil Mueller, "They were vandalized?" . Mr. Murdo Smith, "Yes. It's unbelievable, they would take bats and knock them off. Usually what we try to do is to put timers on there, so the people would shut them off. Perhaps the one at Marco is not functioning properly, or has been vandalized. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "I've talked to people that live in that area, and many nights there's absolutely no one on the tennis courts, and those lights are blazing four or five hours. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "We've got some extra meters, and we could probably stick one there and give it a try. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "I'm told, that at the Racquet Club, that there is a considerable demand for evening tennis, and the reason that people can' t be accommodated, is because there isn' t adequate lighting. We have two courts lit, as I recall. That would be a revenue producing situation. Why then did we turn around and put lights at Barfield, where (A) there's no revenue, (B) they're burning when there's nobody in site?" Mr. Murdo Smith commented, "I'll give you the answer. Number one, Barfield was built in 1975 and the tennis courts were lit at that time. We purchased the Racquet Club in 1985, from a gentleman by the name of Chris Blunt for approximately $230,000. So the Barfield tennis courts and ballfield were there prior to the County acquiring the Racquet Club. It's been put in the budget several times to light those courts, but it's always been removed, because it's $27,000 we don' t want to spend right now. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "As long as we're on tennis on Marco, I have difficulty understanding why the Racquet Club isn' t a money producing situation. At least break even! I'm not saying that's the objective of Parks and Recreation to make money, it's not a business, but that revenue can be used to sustain other areas that go in the red every year. And I'm sure it does all the time. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "There's a lot of areas where you can' t raise the fees. The fees were raised last year, and some of the participation went down. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "That wasn' t the reason for it. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "Oh! What was the reason for it? That was the understanding that I got. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "I've discussed this with a lot of members there, just about every member there, and with the exception of one fellow, there wasn' t anybody that wouldn' t object to an increase in membership fees, because they know it's a tremendous deal! Go somewhere else on the island and try to buy a family membership for $150 or $175 or whatever it is. I don' t think that would be a problem, I think we've got to raise fees, and I have a lot of other ideas and suggestions as far as the Racquet Club, because it's my second home on Marco, but I don' t want to go into all that now. I was amazed that we are losing that amount of money at the Racquet Club! I just can' t understand why that should be. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "That takes into account everything. Maintenance of the ground, everything. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "Oh, I can understand that the fellow who comes and empties the garbage on Friday's while we're playing tennis is a factor. Of course! You've got to include all that!" Mr. Murdo Smith, "I don' t think that will be able to offset the complete cost of the Racquet Club" Mr. Gil Mueller, "I think that we should be able to. " Mr. Murdo Smith, .unless we went into doing some things like (i.e. putting the additional courts down there that we need, possibly going to a clay type court, putting up the additional lighting, and possibly putting up the additional racquetball courts) . That may be the way to look at it, because during the Winter months we have only two tennis courts that we can use at night. Now I'm sure there is a lot of groups that would like to come down there and use those courts. But we can' t do it. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "I think the place must be marketed much better. Exploit the media, and most of them can be exploited very easily, to talk more about the tennis facility. And another thing, and I don' t mean this in a facetious way, is there a possibility that all of the salaries for some of the people are being debited against the 5 Racquet Club which in fact should not be debited against the Racquet Club in their entirety?" Mr. Murdo Smith, "Not to my knowledge" Mr. Gil Mueller, "I think they mentioned five (5) people, didn' t they? I don' t see any pro there. If we have a Pro, he's not there. Ed is only there a fraction of his salaried time. " Ms. Geneva Till, "Now this is a thing that we should take up, during a time at one of our regular meetings. " Chairman Kobza, "I think that's an approach that we've got to take. You've asked some good questions, Gil, and I think that when we get into the numbers on that issue. . . " Mr. Gil Mueller, "May I ask a couple more questions? I've got to make out a report on this to my mentor, just of couple of things here. I got the impression from this report that we are doing landscaping for what, the Sheriff's Dept. , the Library, the Schools. They said that in there. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "No sir. It's incorrect. The report states that we do not, and they've corrected this, we do not physically do the landscaping ourselves at the Sheriff's substations, or the Libraries except in Immokalee. We do that in Immokalee. I think that when they first got the impression that we perform that work, they did not realize that it was a contracted service. Now we do pay for the contracted service. " The people who drew this report up, were made aware of that inaccuracy. Mr. Gil Mueller was brought up to date on the YMCA agreement by Mr. Murdo Smith. Ms. Geneva Till motioned to adjourn. The bids have come in for Bluebill property, staff has not yet seen them. However, staff thinks that the County Manager's Office and the Real Property Dept. is going to get together to make some options on what to do with that property. There was a concern about the fact that some Commissioners would like to see Bluebill remain as a County piece of property used as possibly a parking lot for beaches. The question was, since the citizens of Vanderbilt Beach area did not like the Boat Ramp facility being there, would they object to having a parking lot there, which is basically the same thing as a boat ramp. That was one of the concerns that was brought to me, and if I would ask this board if they had a concern about it. When that issue goes to the board, I'm going to be very articulate and very vocal as to what happens to that property. Not the least of which, Murdo, is about the dumbest way they could do it is keep the Bluebill property. Because, they could go right across the street and for probably $20,000 or $30,000 an acre, they can buy as much land as their hearts content. Mr. Murdo Smith, "There's also an easement right across the street, that the County has, that's 50' wide. " Chairman Kobza, "The road sits on the south 50' of the easement, and the north 50' is currently un-utilized. If they really want to provide parking there, they could. Also, from a policy standpoint, it makes almost no sense, because you can' t get people across the bridge, and when you do, the state park sets all the policies down in their parks. So, I'm pretty vocal on those issues when they come up, because I think if they look at it in terms of keeping a park there, they're really looking at it without regard to the economics. You've got 1 .3 million. . . Mr. Murdo Smith, "Also, I brought up the fact about that one piece of property that the Colliers had across from Vanderbilt. I think what they want to do, is get all those options kind of put in a package, even Conklin Point, there's some things happening up there with the Westinghouse Development. That they're going to write a letter and ask Westinghouse what their intent and so forth is. If they want to purchase a piece of property up there, that they'll have to give the County some value that's owed for that property. That's all dealing with that same piece of property that we talked about last meeting. Real property is going to write a letter to Barron Collier and see if they're interested in selling 6 that. Those things will probably be coming back to PARAB soon. Chairman Kobza, "As related to the Bluebill discussion, I am going to be pretty clear that as a member of the board, I definitely will abstain from any vote related to that, because it very directly impacts us. But, I do know a lot about that property and I can help the Board through it a little bit. I've been working with the County, with Real Property, and I talked to the County Manager's Office, and so on. But, there's another issue on that too. Which is Utilities. Which hardly anybody knows, is, Utilities cut that corner parcel out for relocation of that repump station. I feel very, very strongly about that issue too. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "From what I've heard, the options are ranging from, they may reject all the bids, to selling the property up their own. . . " Chairman Kobza, "Which would be a disaster. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "I don' t know what they're going to do, but that's options that they always have to keep open. They may even try to purchase that with some Impact Fee money in the North Naples area, if they can. " Chairman Kobza, "It's a wonderful idea!" Mr. Murdo Smith, "I also put in a TDC. It's in there. We may be getting the money somewhere. Because you have some money in the North Naples area, 1 .6 million was kind of froze when they were going to combine all the areas into one. Now they may, if they can, think about possibly purchasing that with that money. Since we've got some funds there that wouldn' t be spent on anything specifically. " Mr. Gil Mueller asked which issues will be discussed at the next regular meeting. Mr. Murdo Smith, "The Board has already directed us to go ahead and kind of charge boat launch fees at 951 , Bayview Park, and Lake Trafford at their June 28th meeting. That will be going back into the budget, with a fee collection system there (i.e. Parking Meters) . " The Boat Ramp fees is going back to the BCC in an expanded request form. We had already discussed that at a prior PARAB meeting as part of our budget, what we were submitting. Due to the fact that the Productivity Committee had recommended putting boat launch fees there, we stated that we were going to put it in the budget. They were subsequently removed from the budget, but the BCC want us to put it back in. It was suggested to discuss boat launch fees at PARAB's next meeting. It was decided to discuss the Park Ranger Program in further detail. Ms. Nannette Klein, Park Ranger Supervisor, will be at the next meeting to present a program to PARAB. Ms. Geneva Till suggested to just cover one subject each meeting, especially since PARAB usually always has a full agenda. Ms. Cherryle Thomas suggested to narrow the Updates list down. If a member has a particular item that they want to know about, then they should bring it up. Chairman Kobza suggested to take one item, and see how it goes, and it was agreed to do that by the other members. The BCC will be back on the 23rd. of July, and our next meeting is the 24th. So, theoretically, we could have our new member present at that meeting. We could make him aware that he is going to be recommended, and have the Board approve him in Tuesday. Mr. Gil Mueller motioned to adjourn, Ms. Geneva Till seconded the motion, and the motion passed unanimously with a 4-0 vote. M. _d:003591 7 4 66111:1-- MINUTES PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD Golden Gate Community Park, Administrative Of Naples, Florida 6k1/,'254 Wednesday, July 10, 1991 PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman Mr. Gil Mueller, Vice-Chairman Ms. Geneva Till Ms. Cherryle Thomas I. CALL TO ORDER: The meeting began at 1:35 pm II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG III. PRODUCTIVITY COMMITTEE REPORT: As Mr. Gil Mueller was not present, but expected to attend, the discussion of the Committee's report was postponed until his arrival. An Executive Summary was distributed regarding the Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners authorize the Collier County School Board to provide prepared food for the Summer Food Service Grant Program. For the past seven (7) years the Department has applied and received a grant for monies to supply lunches to children in the summer camp program. This year more areas have met the State's criteria and approximately 9,000 lunches will be served. The lunches are prepared in school cafeterias and then distributed to the various camp locations. All monies expended are reimburseable through the Grant. This Executive Summary is a formality necessary to process the payments to the School Board for preparing the lunches. Ms. Geneva Till motioned to accept the Executive Summary to provide food for summer food service program. Motion seconded by Ms. Cherryle Thomas. Passed 3/0 vote. Mr. Gil Mueller abstained from voting as he arrived in the middle of the discussion. PRODUCTIVITY COMMITTEE: Kim: One individual from this committee, Brad Estes, came to me regarding my views on the Department and we had approximately a one (1) hour meeting. The members talked to other people and before the report went to the Board it would come to us and a member would meet with us. The report came out without that happening and as it would affect policies that we have worked with. My understanding is this has been submitted to the BCC in a draft form. Murdo: It has been submitted - their main concern is being consistent throughout the County, charging fees some places not others (i.e. boat ramps) . Kim: Discussion of the Report will proceed as follows: (1) How Murdo views 4::) the report, (2) Report on how it is impacting the Budget process, and (3) Specific questions on data used and some examples. 1 1 . Murdo: The committee came out here and acted very professional. I agree with the Report overall, - parking, boat launching fees, but implementing them is a different story. We should look at ways of implementing the recommendations. I disagree with the Park Ranger Program - it is not an offshoot of the Sheriff's Department. Since the committee has met with us the issuing of citations has gone before the BCC and been approved - the County Attorney's office is clearing up some issues. The other area was the Racquet Club. They look at it being self supporting - it is just a section of the 5 parks. It not was the intent when purchased that revenue generated would make it self supporting. Beach parking fees should be consistent. The Board, at the Budget hearing, directed us to review the $96,00 submitted to the City of Naples for parking at City beaches. Commissioner Volpe brought up the question of a Task Force to study the beach issues. Basically the report was good overall. They recognized that we need more Recreation staff, there was no concern regarding the Maintenance Section, although they suggested standardizing the equipment. We have tried to do that but cannot due to the bid system. We tried using the same type lighting at the ball fields, using Musco the first time. The next time we had to go with the low bidder. We try to specify good quality equipment. Fleet Management reviews the specifications and we take the recommendation to PARAB and the BCC. The report addressed the athletic fees - revenues are fairly even with the cost. There will be a fee increase of $5 in the fall for softball participants. They did not like the YMCA using our centers. They recommended hiring all the Recreation people back. They questioned the Park Ranger program and wanted it abolished. Comments from the BCC that I heard were concerning the beach parking issue, boat launching issue, revenues at the Racquet Center by Commissioner Shanahan and improvements that could be made to increase revenues. Ms. Geneva Till questioned the Productivity Committee versus the Task Force Committee. Murdo: The Productivity Committee is a 15 member committee the BCC established two years ago to review different departments. Ms. Till: We have basically covered the issues without a Task Force. The Task Force should be a responsible committee. Mentioned to Martha that PARAB, based on last Barefoot Beach meeting was concerned that non members would be in the Task Force and would like to be involved. If need a 15 man Task Force have each member on that team and ask each of you to also be on that Force. Or we could leave it at this and have 5 people on it. Gil: Perhaps we could invite Mrs. Skinner to our meetings. Kim: We have addressed these issues and we have heard an open forum to provide input. Best approach would be to have us establish one meeting, or series, where we can go to different parts of the County and hold workshops as a 5 member board or as part of a 10 member board. Murdo: Explain to Martha your recommendation to be accepted and let her know how you feel. Mrs. Till: We should be involved. We have had people come to meetings and know how they feel. We should be involved. 2 Gil: More individuals will just muddy the waters. I do not think that we need too many people. Kim: We had a difficult time with the Barefoot Beach Task Force when we had 15 people sitting around the table. Cherryle: As long as our Board members are involved. Others can get input from the public and bring it back to us. Kim: We believe that for any Task Force to be established the PARAB members should be the core of any effort and if it should be made in the context of the Board, not as a Task Force per se. Regularly scheduled meetings, well advertised, and BCC workshops. Recommendation to BCC to use PARAB as core of any effort to address the issue and allow us to hold public meetings and make recommendation to BCC. Gil: If they are not going to use recognize our abilities, then what is the purpose of us meeting? We need to work together. I am also surprised that the Productivity Committee did not work more closely with us. We should be the core. Murdo: If the Board wishes to have a 15 member Task Force, would you like to also appoint members or want them appointed? Ms. Till: I am of the opinion that 10 is enough. Kim: I think the 5 people here are enough, but I understand this is political and to this end it would bring more people into the process. Five people making the recommendation is probably not realistic. We form the core of the group anyway, - leave it to PARAB. Gil: We could each bring in another person. Kim: Commissioners may want to appoint people themselves. We agree on the following: 1 . Agree any Task Force that may be appointed, PARAB should sit as members. 2. If BCC authorizes more members than 5, see that each of us has the prerogative to bring in 1 member from our District. 3. We would recommend to the Board setting the number of members not to exceed 12 members. 1 . BCC considerations limited to PARAB, work shops held for the public, not establish a separate Task Force. 2. In the event that BCC establishes a Task Force, all members of PARAB be members. 3 0011111W 3. In the event BCC establishes a Task Force, limit the size, not to exceed 12. 4. In the event BCC establishes a Task Force, provide members of PARAB with the prerogative to submit names of one member for each District for their consideration These meetings would be well publicized so citizens may attend and could be held anywhere. Ms. Till: Let's make these recommendations in a positive way, not negative. 1 . This Board be the core committee to make recommendations to BCC regarding beach issues - information from all interested people is desired, meetings will be publicized and hold public meetings to provide for the maximum public participation. Does this leave the door open for other people as members? 1 . We want to be the committee. If not, three things happen A. 1. BCC allow PARAB to conduct public hearings on beach access and fee issue. 2. In the event BCC decides to appoint a Task Force, all members of PARAB be members. 3. Members be limited on Task Force, not to exceed 12. 4. Prerogative of members of PARAB to submit 1 person's name from their District for consideration by the BCC for the appointment to Task Force. Ms. Till suggested combing to two: B. 1. All PARAB be core committee of any committee to make recommendations on beach issues, fees, and any other beach issues. 2. Will hold public meetings which will publicize for public information. Gil: Motion adopt B and submit it for BCC consideration. Ms. Geneva Till seconded. Kim: PARAB be core i.e. all PARAB members be on any committee that addresses that issue. In consideration of the fact that we have addressed these issues on a frequent basis, make the recommendation that BCC approve B 1 and 2. Gil: We are reminding them that it is our purpose. FINAL MOTION BY GIL MUELLER: In consideration of the fact that we have spent a substantial amount of time historically on beach access issues and fee issues, as well as other issues related to the beaches, we would like to Ar recommend to the County Commission that: 4 1 . All members of PARAB be a core committee to make recommendations to BCC on the beach access issue and fees and any other beach issues. 2. Hold public meetings which will be well publicized to provide for maximum public participation on this issue. Seconded by Ms. Geneva Till. Motion approved unanimously. Murdo: When you say core committee, does that mean you are going to be the central focus and you don' t mind other members? Gil: Yes, we are making it clear and reminding them that that is our purpose and we should be a part of it. Kim: Give the Board synopsis of minutes with Recommendation. Back to Productivity Report - 16.1 5