Minutes 07/10/1991 S Parks & Recreation
Advisory Board
( PARAB )
Minutes
June 10 , 1991
MINUTES
PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD
Golden Gate Community Park, Administrative Office
Naples, Florida
Wednesday, July 10, 1991
PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman
Mr. Gil Mueller, Vice-Chairman
Ms. Geneva Till
Ms. Cherryle Thomas
I. Call To Order: The meeting began at 1:35 p.m.
II. Pledge Of Allegiance To The Flag
III. New Business/Presentations:
A. Summer Food Service Grant Program:
An Executive Summary was distributed regarding the Recommendation that the Board of
County Commissioners authorize the Collier County School Board to provide prepared
food for the Summer Food Service Grant Program. This Executive Summary is a
formality necessary to process the payments to the School Board for preparing the
lunches. Ms. Geneva Till motioned to accept the Executive Summary to provide food
for summer food service program. Motion seconded by Ms. Cherryle Thomas. Passed
3/0 vote. Mr. Gil Mueller abstained from voting as he arrived in the middle of the
discussion.
B. Productivity Committee Report (Draft):
MURDO'S COMMENTS: The Productivity Committee met with staff at the Golden Gate
Community Park. I agree with the Report overall, particularly in the areas of
parking, and boat launching fees, we should look at ways of implementing the
recommendations. I disagree with the Park Ranger Program - it is not an offshoot of
the Sheriff's Department. Since the Committee has met with staff, the issuing of
citations has gone before the BCC and approved, the County Attorney's office is
clearing up some issues. The Committee looked at the Racquet Club as being a self
supporting facility. However, it is one of the five (5) Community Parks. Beach
parking fees should be consistent. The Board, at the Budget hearing, directed staff
to review the $96,000 submitted to the City of Naples for parking at City beaches.
Commissioner Volpe brought up the question of a Task Force to study the beach
issues. Basically the report was good overall. The Productivity Committee
recognized that we need more Recreation staff. There was no concern regarding the
Maintenance Section, although the committee suggested standardizing the equipment.
We have tried to do that in the past but can not due to the bid system. We tried
using the same type lighting at the ball fields, using Musco the first time. The
next time we had to go with the low bidder. We try to specify good quality
equipment. Fleet Management reviews the specifications and we take the
recommendation to PARAB and the BCC. The report addressed the athletic fees -
revenues are fairly even with the cost. There will be a fee increase of $5 in the
Fall for Softball participants. The Committee did not like the YMCA using our
1
%
centers, and recommended hiring all the Recreation people back. The Committee
II: questioned the Park Ranger program and wanted it abolished. Comments from the BCC
that I heard were concerning the beach parking issue, boat launching issue, revenues
at the Racquet Center by Commissioner Shanahan, and improvements that could be made
to increase revenues. Mr. Gil Mueller motioned that In consideration of the fact
that we have spent a substantial amount of time historically on beach access issues
and fee issues, as well as other issues related to the beaches, we would like to
recommend to the County Commission that:
1 . All members of PARAB be a core committee to make recommendations to BCC on the
beach access issue and fees and any other beach issues.
2. Hold public meetings which will be well publicized to provide for maximum public
participation on this issue.
Seconded by Ms. Geneva Till. Motion approved unanimously.
Back to Productivity Report -
The BCC has already received this report from the Productivity Committee, prior
I to going into the budget hearings. Staff has only received a draft report, and
believe that the original is not much different.
Mr. Gil Mueller questioned why the BCC would accept the suggestions,
recommendations, alterations, etc. that are in the report, from the Productivity
Committee without input from PARAB.
Chairman Kobza commented that the BCC independently asked this Committee to
1 4P report on productivity and efficiency. We have a copy of their report, and we can
take the initiative to make recommendations to the Board in light of these
Committee's recommendations. The BCC have not yet gone through their final budget
hearings, and have only gone through their preliminary workshops.
Mr. Gil Mueller commented, "After reading the Committee's report, his viewpoint
was that there are several of the things that are way off and blatantly wrong. For
example, the total lack of any vandalism or crime at the beaches. I talked to the
Sub Commander on Marco, and he gave me an off the top figure of how much Vandalism,
car break in's at Tigertail beach. At two or three a week, over a period of a year,
how can they say there's no crime at our beaches. I think they are way off base in
the Ranger Program. Since the Commissioners have received this, and if they've
formulated some opinions, then will our suggestions and recommendations to them at
this point really have any impact? Commissioner Shanahan has approached me and
asked for recommendations. "
Chairman Kobza commented, that he assumes that any recommendation that PARAB
would choose to make would be considered, and assumes that for anything we send to
them, and that they have a fair amount of respect for PARAB . He also commented, "I
don' t feel that I have the information whether to agree or disagree with them one
way or the other. . . .The Racquet Club, I have no feel for whatsoever. I know
philosophically, that I think I disagree the recommendations on certain
philosophical statement, but beyond that, in terms of numbers, I'm really quite
unfamiliar with what their numbers are.
The Productivity Committee requested parking meters be installed at Beach &
Ramp accesses, not to staff, and have the Park Rangers go around and pick up the
money out of the parking meters.
Ms. Geneva Till suggested that we have enough work here for a full year. Today
O we're just spinning our wheels to try to cover too much ground. She feels that this
Committee has come up with some good ideas, it's not all bad, and we really should
2
consider it. If we want to be the core group, PARAB should address each one of
these items individually, and find out how can we improve, or do we feel that this
ilVf is the way it should be, and then make our recommendations. Ms. Geneva Till
motioned that we have received the Productivity Committee's report and that we will
address each of the items at depth, with public input, so that we can make a
knowledgable determination, and present that to the County Board of Commissioners.
Chairman Kobza, "OK, so that's a motion. . . " . Ms. Cherryle Thomas seconded. The
motion passed unanimously with a 4-0 vote.
Mr. Gil Mueller commented that he doesn' t feel that the metered lights were too
successful. That when the lights go on at Barfield tennis courts at 4:00 in the
afternoon and then burn until 10:00 at night, and sometimes there isn' t a sole
around playing tennis, seven days a week. To him it's a big waste of money. Mr.
Murdo Smith commented that is wrong if they come on at 4:00, the timer should be
checked. Mr. Murdo Smith, "I would also like a chance to respond. For example, we
have tried several times at our outlying tennis facilities (i.e. Tommie Barfield,
Naples Park, Avalon) to put coin meters on, timers on with switches, we've tried
them several times, but they were so costly to have an electrician go out there and
repair them every night. . . " Mr. Gil Mueller, "They were vandalized?" . Mr. Murdo
Smith, "Yes. It's unbelievable, they would take bats and knock them off. Usually
what we try to do is to put timers on, so the people would shut them off. Perhaps
the one at Marco is not functioning properly, or has been vandalized. " Mr. Gil
Mueller, "I've talked to people that live in that area, and many nights there's
absolutely no one on the tennis courts, and those lights are blazing four or five
hours. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "We've got some extra meters, and we could possibly
I install one there and give it a try. "
Mr. Gil Mueller, "I'm told, that at the Racquet Club, that there is a
considerable demand for evening tennis, and the reason that people can' t be
accommodated, is because there isn' t adequate lighting. We have two courts lit, as
I recall. That would be a revenue producing situation. Why then did we turn around
and put lights at Barfield, where (A) there's no revenue, (B) they're burning when
there's nobody in site?" Mr. Murdo Smith commented, "I'll give you the answer.
Number one, Barfield was built in 1975 and the tennis courts were lit at that time.
We purchased the Racquet Club in 1985, from a gentleman by the name of Chris Blunt
for approximately $230,000. So the Barfield tennis courts and ballfield were there
prior to the County acquiring the Racquet Club. It's been put in the budget several
times to light those courts, but it's always been removed, because it's $27,000 we
don' t want to spend right now. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "As long as we're on tennis on
Marco, I have difficulty understanding why the Racquet Club isn' t a money producing
situation. At least break even! I'm not saying that's the objective of Parks and
Recreation to make money, it's not a business, but that revenue can be used to
sustain other areas that go in the red every year. And I'm sure it does all the
time. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "I've discussed this with a lot of members there, just
about every member there, and with the exception of one fellow, there wasn' t anybody
that wouldn' t object to an increase in membership fees, because they know it's a
tremendous deal! Go somewhere else on the island and try to buy a family membership
for $150 or $175 or whatever it is. I don' t think that would be a problem, I think
we've got to raise fees, and I have a lot of other ideas and suggestions as far as
the Racquet Club, because it's my second home on Marco, but I don' t want to go into
all that now.
Mr. Gil Mueller, "May I ask a couple more questions? I got the impression from
this report that we are doing landscaping for the Sheriff's Dept. , the Library, the
Schools. They said that in there. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "No sir. It's incorrect. The
I CV report states that, and they've corrected it, we do not physically do the
landscaping ourselves at the Sheriff's substations, or the Libraries except in
3
Immokalee. I think that when the Productivity Committee first got the impression
that we perform that work, they did not realize that it was a contracted service.
We do pay for the contracted service. "
Mr. Gil Mueller was brought up to date on the YMCA agreement by Mr. Murdo
Smith.
Ms. Geneva Till motioned to adjourn.
The bids have come in for Bluebill property, staff has not yet seen them.
However, staff thinks that the County Manager's Office and the Real Property Dept.
are going to get together to make some options on what to do with the property.
There was a concern about the fact that some Commissioners would like to see
Bluebill remain as a County piece of property used possibly as a parking lot for
beaches. The question was, since the citizens of Vanderbilt Beach area did not like
the Boat Ramp facility being there, would they object to having a parking lot there,
which is basically the same thing as a boat ramp. That was one of the concerns that
was brought to me, and if I would ask this board if they had a concern about it.
Mr. Kobza stated, "When that issue goes to the board, I'm going to be very
articulate and very vocal as to what happens to that property. " Because, they could
go right across the street and for probably $20,000 or $30,000 an acre, they can buy
as much land as their hearts content. Mr. Murdo Smith, "There's also an easement
right across the street, that the County has, that's 50' wide. " Chairman Kobza,
"The road sits on the south 50' of the easement, and the north 50' is currently
un-utilized. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "Also, I brought up the fact about the piece of
property that the Colliers have across from Vanderbilt. I think what they want to
do, is get all those options in a package, even Conklin Point, there's some things
happening up there with the Westinghouse Development. The Real Property Dept. is
vier going to write a letter to Barron Collier's and see if they're interested in
selling. Those things will probably be coming back to PARAB soon. Mr. Murdo Smith,
"From what I've heard, the options are ranging from, they may reject all the bids,
to selling the property up their own. . . " Chairman Kobza, "Which would be a
disaster. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "I don' t know what they're going to recommend, but
that's options that they always have to keep open. They may even try to purchase
that with some Impact Fee money in the North Naples area, if they can. " Chairman
Kobza, "It's a wonderful idea!"
Mr. Gil Mueller asked which issues will be discussed at the next regular
meeting.
Mr. Murdo Smith, "The Board has already directed us to go ahead and pursue
charging boat launch fees at 951, Bayview Park, and Lake Trafford at their June 28th
meeting. That will be going back into the budget, with a fee collection system
there (i.e. Parking Meters) . " It was suggested to discuss boat launch fees at
PARAB's next meeting.
It was decided to discuss the Park Ranger Program in further detail. Ms.
Nannette Klein, Park Ranger Supervisor, will be at the next meeting to present a
program to PARAB .
IV. Adjournment:
Mr. Gil Mueller motioned to adjourn, Ms. Geneva Till seconded the motion, and the
motion passed unanimously with a 4-0 vote.
I 46
4
MINUTES (long version)
PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD
Golden Gate Community Park, Administrative Office
Naples, Florida
Wednesday, July 10, 1991
PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman
Mr. Gil Mueller, Vice-Chairman
Ms. Geneva Till
Ms. Cherryle Thomas
I. CALL TO ORDER: The meeting began at 1:35 p.m.
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG
III. PRODUCTIVITY COMMITTEE REPORT:
As Mr. Gil Mueller was not present, but expected to attend, the discussion of the
Committee's report was postponed until his arrival.
An Executive Summary was distributed regarding the Recommendation that the Board of
County Commissioners authorize the Collier County School Board to provide prepared
food for the Summer Food Service Grant Program. For the past seven (7) years the
Department has applied and received a grant for moneys to supply lunches to children
in the summer camp program. This year more areas have met the State's criteria and
approximately 9,000 lunches will be served. The lunches are prepared in school
cafeterias and then distributed to the various camp locations. All moneys expended
are reimbursable through the Grant. This Executive Summary is a formality necessary
to process the payments to the School Board for preparing the lunches. Ms. Geneva
Till motioned to accept the Executive Summary to provide food for summer food
service program. Motion seconded by Ms. Cherryle Thomas. Passed 3/0 vote. Mr. Gil
Mueller abstained from voting as he arrived in the middle of the discussion.
PRODUCTIVITY COMMITTEE:
Discussion of the Report proceeded as follows: (1) How Murdo views the report, (2)
Report on how it is impacting the Budget process, and (3) Specific questions on data
used and some examples.
(1) How Murdo views the report: The Productivity Committee met with staff at the Golden
Gate Community Park. I agree with the Report overall, particularly on the subjects
of parking, and boat launching fees, and should look at ways of implementing the
recommendations. I disagree with the Park Ranger Program - it is not an offshoot of
the Sheriff's Department. Since the Committee has met with staff, the issuing of
citations has gone before the BCC and been approved, and the County Attorney's
office is clearing up some issues. The Committee looks at the Racquet Club as
being a self supporting facility. However, it is just a section of the five (5)
parks, and was not intended when purchased that revenue generated would make it self
supporting. Beach parking fees should be consistent. The Board, at the Budget
hearing, directed us to review the $96,000 submitted to the City of Naples for
parking at City beaches. Commissioner Volpe brought
1
up the question of a Task Force to study the beach issues. Basically the report was
good overall. They recognized that we need more Recreation staff. There was no
concern regarding the Maintenance Section, although they suggested standardizing the
equipment. We have tried to do that but cannot due to the bid system. We tried
using the same type lighting at the ball fields, using Musco the first time. The
next time we had to go with the low bidder. We try to specify good quality
equipment. Fleet Management reviews the specifications and we take the
recommendation to PARAB and the BCC. The report addressed the athletic fees -
revenues are fairly even with the cost. There will be a fee increase of $5 in the
Fall for Softball participants. The Committee did not like the YMCA using our
centers, and recommended hiring all the Recreation people back. The Committee
questioned the Park Ranger program and wanted it abolished. Comments from the BCC
that I heard were concerning the beach parking issue, boat launching issue, revenues
at the Racquet Center by Commissioner Shanahan, and improvements that could be made
to increase revenues. Mr. Gil Mueller motioned that In consideration of the fact
that we have spent a substantial amount of time historically on beach access issues
and fee issues, as well as other issues related to the beaches, we would like to
recommend to the County Commission that:
1 . All members of PARAB be a core committee to make recommendations to BCC on the
beach access issue and fees and any other beach issues.
2. Hold public meetings which will be well publicized to provide for maximum public
participation on this issue.
Seconded by Ms. Geneva Till. Motion approved unanimously.
Back to Productivity Report -
The BCC has already received this report from the Productivity Committee, prior to
going into the budget hearings. Staff has only received a draft report, and believe
that the original is not much different.
Mr. Murdo Smith commented, "I don' t know if the BCC is looking for any
recommendation from this Board pertaining to that. But, we've gone through the
first set of Budget Hearings, and we've addressed capital and operational, and
they've brought up some of their questions about he Productivity Committee's report
at those Hearings and they've already kind of dealt with those. " We have had our
first Hearing on the Capital and on the Operations budget.
Mr. Gil Mueller questioned why the BCC would accept the suggestions,
recommendations, alterations, etc. that are in the report, from the Productivity
Committee without input from PARAB.
Chairman Kobza commented that the BCC independently asked this Committee to report
on productivity and efficiency. We have a copy of their report, and we can take the
initiative to make recommendations to the Board in light of these Committee's
recommendations. The BCC have not yet gone through their final budget hearings, and
have only gone through their preliminary workshops.
Mr. Gil Mueller commented, "After reading the Committee's report, his viewpoint was
that there are several of the things that are way off and blatantly wrong. For
example, the total lack of any vandalism or crime at the beaches. I talked to the
Sub Commander on Marco, and he gave me an off the top figure of how much Vandalism,
2
car break in's at Tigertail beach. At two or three a week, over a period of a year,
how can they say there's no crime at our beaches. I think they are way off base in
the Ranger Program. Since the Commissioners have received this, and if they've
formulated some opinions, then will our suggestions and recommendations to them at
this point really have any impact? Commissioner Shanahan has approached me and
asked for recommendations. "
Chairman Kobza commented, that he assumes that any recommendation that PARAB would
choose to make would be considered, and assumes that for anything we send to them,
and that they have a fair amount of respect for PARAB. He also commented, "I don' t
feel that I have the information at to whether to agree or disagree with them one
way or the other. . . .The Racquet Club, I have no feel for whatsoever. I know
philosophically, that I think I disagree the recommendations on certain
philosophical tangents, but beyond that, in terms of numbers, I'm really quite
unfamiliar with what their numbers are. A better example is, the parking permit
fee. They sited a cost in here of Beach Parking Fees currently costing the County
$358,000 to staff, maintain, and protect the beach facilities. When we had the
discussion on the fee, Mr. Kevin O'Donnell, former Public Services Administrator,
has a worksheet for us that broke down the cost, and as I remember it the total cost
that he used was about $120,000 and so the whole theory of the $1 .00 fee was we were
at Tigertail we're making money above and beyond our costs, at Vanderbilt we're
breaking even, Clam Pass at one point we were behind, but then it came up to
breaking even, and Barefoot we never quite knew what to do with and we knew that
wasn' t going to break even because it didn' t have enough spots. So the question is,
what gets into these numbers?"
Mr. Murdo Smith commented that they're factoring in everything that was associated
with the operation of (i.e. Vanderbilt Beach) . The one that you had, Kim, was
basically what it cost to operate that little booth. This took into effect picking
up Garbage on the beach, dumpsters, travel time, everything that you can think of.
Chairman Kobza commented that tremendously powerful perceptions are being made on
the basis of this report. The Committee thought that a lot of these programs ought
to pay for themselves (i.e. Athletics, Tennis, Racquetball) .
Mr. Murdo Smith commented that he doesn' t think that we could ever get to that
point, because we have so many different type of facilities.
Mr. Gil Mueller commented, that there are some places that do not pay for themselves
and never will (i.e. 951 boat ramp, Plumber Park, Tommie Barfield) . There are
certain parks throughout the County that don' t pay for themselves and they never
will. However, Mr. Mueller agreed that there are some areas that absolutely should
pay for themselves, and they aren' t at the present time. There are some sites that
should be making money for us, and those sites will have to sustain other sites that
can' t make money for us. It's got to be a balance, I have to agree with them in
many things. The Committee used the word "entrepreneurial" , it can never be run as
a business per se, but I think there are areas that we can make money on, never make
money on, and break even on. Mr. Gil Mueller was in full agreement that we've got
to raise parking fees, and that we've got to standardize this thing.
Mr. Murdo Smith commented that because of the political aspects, inconsistencies are
caused. The Productivity Committee didn' t look at it from a Political aspect.
The Productivity Committee wants parking meters installed at a lot of these areas,
3
and not to staff it with anyone, and have the Park Rangers go around and pick up the
money out of the parking meters. It was suggested to use one site experimentally to
finalize this issue conclusively to know whether parking meters are proper or not
(i.e. Vanderbilt) . Perhaps if there were parking meters there, we may make
additional revenue.
Mr. Murdo Smith commented that the Commissioners to review the issue of installing
Parking Meters at the boat launch facilities, (i.e. Bayview, 951, and Lake
Trafford) . So it was put back in the budget and will again by reviewed. The City
has them, and they work.
Ms. Geneva Till suggested that we have enough work here for a full year. Today
we're just spinning our wheels to try to cover too much ground. She feels that this
Committee has come up with some good ideas, it's not all bad, and we really should
consider it. If we want to be the core group, PARAB should address each one of
these items individually, and find out how can we improve, or do we feel that this
is the way it should be, and then make our recommendations.
Chairman Kobza suggested that along those lines maybe a Resolution to the BCC would
be, just an informative one. Resolves that we will examine each of the issue
addressed by the Productivity Committee and make seperate recommendations to the
County Board of Commissioners.
Mr. Gil Mueller commented that he agrees with Mrs. Till, that this is so involved
and complex, that he has developed 13 pages of notes just going through it.
However, there are some things here that we need to address immediately in lieu of
the Budget Hearings. Ms. Geneva Till motioned that we have received the
Productivity Committee's report and that we will address each of the items at depth,
with public input, so that we can make a knowledgable determination, and present
that to the County Board of Commissioners. Chairman Kobza, "So the motion is to
resolve that we acknowledge receipt of the report, and to inform the County Board
that we will address each issue. .1" Mr. Gil Mueller, " . . .because of the complexity,
we are going to address each issue. . . " . Chairman Kobza, " . . .in our public
meetings. . . . " Mr. Gil Mueller, "Why don' t we say that we will address a number of
issues in each of our meetings, and that we will report to them as we are able to
review these things. " Chairman Kobza, "OK, so that's a motion. . . " . Ms. Cherryle
Thomas seconded. Chairman Kobza, "The only thing that I want to say, is that I
think that's very important, because I do think I strongly disagree with some of the
conclusions in here, and it really goes beyond the scope of us sitting here today
and trying to resolve it. Although, I do think that we're probably going to spend
quite a bit of time. . . " Ms. Geneva Till, "Well, I think so too, and this
Productivity Committee should be here too on some of these things that we're talking
about. . .They don' t know all about the things that we've been talking about goes into
that. " The motion passed unanimously with a 4-0 vote.
Mr. Gil Mueller commented that he doesn' t feel that the metered lights were too
successful. That when the lights go on at Barfield tennis courts at 4:00 in the
afternoon and then burn until 10:00 at night, and sometimes there isn' t a sole
around playing tennis, seven days a weed. To him it's a big waste of money. Mr.
Murdo Smith commented that is wrong if they come on at 4:00, the timer should be
checked. Mr. Murdo Smith, "I would also like a chance to respond to some of those
things if you have questions like that. For example, we have tried several times at
our outlying tennis facilities (i.e. Tommie Barfield, Naples Park, Avalon) where we
put coin meters on, timers on with switches, we've tried them several times, but
4
they got to be so costly to have an electrician go out there and repair those every
night. . . " Mr. Gil Mueller, "They were vandalized?" . Mr. Murdo Smith, "Yes. It's
unbelievable, they would take bats and knock them off. Usually what we try to do is
to put timers on there, so the people would shut them off. Perhaps the one at Marco
is not functioning properly, or has been vandalized. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "I've talked
to people that live in that area, and many nights there's absolutely no one on the
tennis courts, and those lights are blazing four or five hours. " Mr. Murdo Smith,
"We've got some extra meters, and we could probably stick one there and
give it a try. "
Mr. Gil Mueller, "I'm told, that at the Racquet Club, that there is a considerable
demand for evening tennis, and the reason that people can' t be accommodated, is
because there isn' t adequate lighting. We have two courts lit, as I recall. That
would be a revenue producing situation. Why then did we turn around and put lights
at Barfield, where (A) there's no revenue, (B) they're burning when there's nobody
in site?" Mr. Murdo Smith commented, "I'll give you the answer. Number one,
Barfield was built in 1975 and the tennis courts were lit at that time. We
purchased the Racquet Club in 1985, from a gentleman by the name of Chris Blunt for
approximately $230,000. So the Barfield tennis courts and ballfield were there
prior to the County acquiring the Racquet Club. It's been put in the budget several
times to light those courts, but it's always been removed, because it's $27,000 we
don' t want to spend right now. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "As long as we're on tennis on
Marco, I have difficulty understanding why the Racquet Club isn' t a money producing
situation. At least break even! I'm not saying that's the objective of Parks and
Recreation to make money, it's not a business, but that revenue can be used to
sustain other areas that go in the red every year. And I'm sure it does all the
time. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "There's a lot of areas where you can' t raise the fees.
The fees were raised last year, and some of the participation went down. " Mr. Gil
Mueller, "That wasn' t the reason for it. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "Oh! What was the
reason for it? That was the understanding that I got. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "I've
discussed this with a lot of members there, just about every member there, and with
the exception of one fellow, there wasn' t anybody that wouldn' t object to an
increase in membership fees, because they know it's a tremendous deal! Go somewhere
else on the island and try to buy a family membership for $150 or $175 or whatever
it is. I don' t think that would be a problem, I think we've got to raise fees, and
I have a lot of other ideas and suggestions as far as the Racquet Club, because it's
my second home on Marco, but I don' t want to go into all that now. I was amazed
that we are losing that amount of money at the Racquet Club! I just can' t
understand why that should be. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "That takes into account
everything. Maintenance of the ground, everything. " Mr. Gil Mueller, "Oh, I can
understand that the fellow who comes and empties the garbage on Friday's while we're
playing tennis is a factor. Of course! You've got to include all that!" Mr. Murdo
Smith, "I don' t think that will be able to offset the complete cost of the Racquet
Club" Mr. Gil Mueller, "I think that we should be able to. " Mr. Murdo Smith,
.unless we went into doing some things like (i.e. putting the additional courts
down there that we need, possibly going to a clay type court, putting up the
additional lighting, and possibly putting up the additional racquetball courts) .
That may be the way to look at it, because during the Winter months we have only two
tennis courts that we can use at night. Now I'm sure there is a lot of groups that
would like to come down there and use those courts. But we can' t do it. " Mr. Gil
Mueller, "I think the place must be marketed much better. Exploit the media, and
most of them can be exploited very easily, to talk more about the tennis facility.
And another thing, and I don' t mean this in a facetious way, is there a possibility
that all of the salaries for some of the people are being debited against the
5
Racquet Club which in fact should not be debited against the Racquet Club in their
entirety?" Mr. Murdo Smith, "Not to my knowledge" Mr. Gil Mueller, "I think they
mentioned five (5) people, didn' t they? I don' t see any pro there. If we have a
Pro, he's not there. Ed is only there a fraction of his salaried time. " Ms.
Geneva Till, "Now this is a thing that we should take up, during a time at one of
our regular meetings. " Chairman Kobza, "I think that's an approach that we've got
to take. You've asked some good questions, Gil, and I think that when we get into
the numbers on that issue. . . "
Mr. Gil Mueller, "May I ask a couple more questions? I've got to make out a report
on this to my mentor, just of couple of things here. I got the impression from this
report that we are doing landscaping for what, the Sheriff's Dept. , the Library, the
Schools. They said that in there. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "No sir. It's incorrect. The
report states that we do not, and they've corrected this, we do not physically do
the landscaping ourselves at the Sheriff's substations, or the Libraries except in
Immokalee. We do that in Immokalee. I think that when they first got the
impression that we perform that work, they did not realize that it was a contracted
service. Now we do pay for the contracted service. " The people who drew this
report up, were made aware of that inaccuracy.
Mr. Gil Mueller was brought up to date on the YMCA agreement by Mr. Murdo Smith.
Ms. Geneva Till motioned to adjourn.
The bids have come in for Bluebill property, staff has not yet seen them. However,
staff thinks that the County Manager's Office and the Real Property Dept. is going
to get together to make some options on what to do with that property. There was a
concern about the fact that some Commissioners would like to see Bluebill remain as
a County piece of property used as possibly a parking lot for beaches. The question
was, since the citizens of Vanderbilt Beach area did not like the Boat Ramp facility
being there, would they object to having a parking lot there, which is basically the
same thing as a boat ramp. That was one of the concerns that was brought to me, and
if I would ask this board if they had a concern about it. When that issue goes to
the board, I'm going to be very articulate and very vocal as to what happens to that
property. Not the least of which, Murdo, is about the dumbest way they could do it
is keep the Bluebill property. Because, they could go right across the street and
for probably $20,000 or $30,000 an acre, they can buy as much land as their hearts
content. Mr. Murdo Smith, "There's also an easement right across the street, that
the County has, that's 50' wide. " Chairman Kobza, "The road sits on the south 50'
of the easement, and the north 50' is currently un-utilized. If they really want to
provide parking there, they could. Also, from a policy standpoint, it makes almost
no sense, because you can' t get people across the bridge, and when you do, the state
park sets all the policies down in their parks. So, I'm pretty vocal on those
issues when they come up, because I think if they look at it in terms of keeping a
park there, they're really looking at it without regard to the economics. You've
got 1 .3 million. . . Mr. Murdo Smith, "Also, I brought up the fact about that one
piece of property that the Colliers had across from Vanderbilt. I think what they
want to do, is get all those options kind of put in a package, even Conklin Point,
there's some things happening up there with the Westinghouse Development. That
they're going to write a letter and ask Westinghouse what their intent and so forth
is. If they want to purchase a piece of property up there, that they'll have to
give the County some value that's owed for that property. That's all dealing with
that same piece of property that we talked about last meeting. Real property is
going to write a letter to Barron Collier and see if they're interested in selling
6
that. Those things will probably be coming back to PARAB soon. Chairman Kobza, "As
related to the Bluebill discussion, I am going to be pretty clear that as a member
of the board, I definitely will abstain from any vote related to that, because it
very directly impacts us. But, I do know a lot about that property and I can help
the Board through it a little bit. I've been working with the County, with Real
Property, and I talked to the County Manager's Office, and so on. But, there's
another issue on that too. Which is Utilities. Which hardly anybody knows, is,
Utilities cut that corner parcel out for relocation of that repump station. I feel
very, very strongly about that issue too. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "From what I've heard,
the options are ranging from, they may reject all the bids, to selling the property
up their own. . . " Chairman Kobza, "Which would be a disaster. " Mr. Murdo Smith, "I
don' t know what they're going to do, but that's options that they always have to
keep open. They may even try to purchase that with some Impact Fee money in the
North Naples area, if they can. " Chairman Kobza, "It's a wonderful idea!" Mr.
Murdo Smith, "I also put in a TDC. It's in there. We may be getting the money
somewhere. Because you have some money in the North Naples area, 1 .6 million was
kind of froze when they were going to combine all the areas into one. Now they may,
if they can, think about possibly purchasing that with that money. Since we've got
some funds there that wouldn' t be spent on anything specifically. "
Mr. Gil Mueller asked which issues will be discussed at the next regular meeting.
Mr. Murdo Smith, "The Board has already directed us to go ahead and kind of charge
boat launch fees at 951 , Bayview Park, and Lake Trafford at their June 28th meeting.
That will be going back into the budget, with a fee collection system there (i.e.
Parking Meters) . " The Boat Ramp fees is going back to the BCC in an expanded
request form. We had already discussed that at a prior PARAB meeting as part of our
budget, what we were submitting. Due to the fact that the Productivity Committee
had recommended putting boat launch fees there, we stated that we were going to put
it in the budget. They were subsequently removed from the budget, but the BCC want
us to put it back in. It was suggested to discuss boat launch fees at PARAB's next
meeting.
It was decided to discuss the Park Ranger Program in further detail. Ms. Nannette
Klein, Park Ranger Supervisor, will be at the next meeting to present a program to
PARAB.
Ms. Geneva Till suggested to just cover one subject each meeting, especially since
PARAB usually always has a full agenda. Ms. Cherryle Thomas suggested to narrow the
Updates list down. If a member has a particular item that they want to know about,
then they should bring it up.
Chairman Kobza suggested to take one item, and see how it goes, and it was agreed to
do that by the other members.
The BCC will be back on the 23rd. of July, and our next meeting is the 24th. So,
theoretically, we could have our new member present at that meeting. We could make
him aware that he is going to be recommended, and have the Board approve him in
Tuesday.
Mr. Gil Mueller motioned to adjourn, Ms. Geneva Till seconded the motion, and the
motion passed unanimously with a 4-0 vote.
M. _d:003591
7
4
66111:1--
MINUTES
PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD
Golden Gate Community Park, Administrative Of
Naples, Florida 6k1/,'254
Wednesday, July 10, 1991
PRESENT: Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman
Mr. Gil Mueller, Vice-Chairman
Ms. Geneva Till
Ms. Cherryle Thomas
I. CALL TO ORDER: The meeting began at 1:35 pm
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG
III. PRODUCTIVITY COMMITTEE REPORT:
As Mr. Gil Mueller was not present, but expected to attend, the discussion of
the Committee's report was postponed until his arrival.
An Executive Summary was distributed regarding the Recommendation that the
Board of County Commissioners authorize the Collier County School Board to
provide prepared food for the Summer Food Service Grant Program. For the past
seven (7) years the Department has applied and received a grant for monies to
supply lunches to children in the summer camp program. This year more areas
have met the State's criteria and approximately 9,000 lunches will be served.
The lunches are prepared in school cafeterias and then distributed to the
various camp locations. All monies expended are reimburseable through the
Grant. This Executive Summary is a formality necessary to process the
payments to the School Board for preparing the lunches. Ms. Geneva Till
motioned to accept the Executive Summary to provide food for summer food
service program. Motion seconded by Ms. Cherryle Thomas. Passed 3/0 vote.
Mr. Gil Mueller abstained from voting as he arrived in the middle of the
discussion.
PRODUCTIVITY COMMITTEE:
Kim: One individual from this committee, Brad Estes, came to me regarding my
views on the Department and we had approximately a one (1) hour meeting. The
members talked to other people and before the report went to the Board it
would come to us and a member would meet with us. The report came out without
that happening and as it would affect policies that we have worked with. My
understanding is this has been submitted to the BCC in a draft form.
Murdo: It has been submitted - their main concern is being consistent
throughout the County, charging fees some places not others (i.e. boat ramps) .
Kim: Discussion of the Report will proceed as follows: (1) How Murdo views
4::) the report, (2) Report on how it is impacting the Budget process, and (3)
Specific questions on data used and some examples.
1
1 . Murdo: The committee came out here and acted very professional. I agree
with the Report overall, - parking, boat launching fees, but implementing them
is a different story. We should look at ways of implementing the
recommendations. I disagree with the Park Ranger Program - it is not an
offshoot of the Sheriff's Department. Since the committee has met with us the
issuing of citations has gone before the BCC and been approved - the County
Attorney's office is clearing up some issues. The other area was the Racquet
Club. They look at it being self supporting - it is just a section of the 5
parks. It not was the intent when purchased that revenue generated would make
it self supporting. Beach parking fees should be consistent. The Board, at
the Budget hearing, directed us to review the $96,00 submitted to the City of
Naples for parking at City beaches. Commissioner Volpe brought up the
question of a Task Force to study the beach issues. Basically the report was
good overall. They recognized that we need more Recreation staff, there was
no concern regarding the Maintenance Section, although they suggested
standardizing the equipment. We have tried to do that but cannot due to the
bid system. We tried using the same type lighting at the ball fields, using
Musco the first time. The next time we had to go with the low bidder. We try
to specify good quality equipment. Fleet Management reviews the
specifications and we take the recommendation to PARAB and the BCC. The
report addressed the athletic fees - revenues are fairly even with the cost.
There will be a fee increase of $5 in the fall for softball participants.
They did not like the YMCA using our centers. They recommended hiring all the
Recreation people back. They questioned the Park Ranger program and wanted it
abolished. Comments from the BCC that I heard were concerning the beach
parking issue, boat launching issue, revenues at the Racquet Center by
Commissioner Shanahan and improvements that could be made to increase
revenues.
Ms. Geneva Till questioned the Productivity Committee versus the Task Force
Committee. Murdo: The Productivity Committee is a 15 member committee the
BCC established two years ago to review different departments. Ms. Till: We
have basically covered the issues without a Task Force. The Task Force should
be a responsible committee.
Mentioned to Martha that PARAB, based on last Barefoot Beach meeting was
concerned that non members would be in the Task Force and would like to be
involved. If need a 15 man Task Force have each member on that team and ask
each of you to also be on that Force. Or we could leave it at this and have 5
people on it.
Gil: Perhaps we could invite Mrs. Skinner to our meetings.
Kim: We have addressed these issues and we have heard an open forum to
provide input. Best approach would be to have us establish one meeting, or
series, where we can go to different parts of the County and hold workshops as
a 5 member board or as part of a 10 member board.
Murdo: Explain to Martha your recommendation to be accepted and let her know
how you feel.
Mrs. Till: We should be involved. We have had people come to meetings and
know how they feel. We should be involved.
2
Gil: More individuals will just muddy the waters. I do not think that we
need too many people.
Kim: We had a difficult time with the Barefoot Beach Task Force when we had
15 people sitting around the table.
Cherryle: As long as our Board members are involved. Others can get input
from the public and bring it back to us.
Kim: We believe that for any Task Force to be established the PARAB members
should be the core of any effort and if it should be made in the context of
the Board, not as a Task Force per se. Regularly scheduled meetings, well
advertised, and BCC workshops.
Recommendation to BCC to use PARAB as core of any effort to address the issue
and allow us to hold public meetings and make recommendation to BCC.
Gil: If they are not going to use recognize our abilities, then what is the
purpose of us meeting? We need to work together. I am also surprised that
the Productivity Committee did not work more closely with us. We should be
the core.
Murdo: If the Board wishes to have a 15 member Task Force, would you like to
also appoint members or want them appointed?
Ms. Till: I am of the opinion that 10 is enough.
Kim: I think the 5 people here are enough, but I understand this is political
and to this end it would bring more people into the process. Five people
making the recommendation is probably not realistic. We form the core of the
group anyway, - leave it to PARAB.
Gil: We could each bring in another person.
Kim: Commissioners may want to appoint people themselves. We agree on the
following:
1 . Agree any Task Force that may be appointed, PARAB should sit as
members.
2. If BCC authorizes more members than 5, see that each of us
has the prerogative to bring in 1 member from our District.
3. We would recommend to the Board setting the number of members
not to exceed 12 members.
1 . BCC considerations limited to PARAB, work shops held for the public, not
establish a separate Task Force.
2. In the event that BCC establishes a Task Force, all members of PARAB be
members.
3
0011111W
3. In the event BCC establishes a Task Force, limit the size, not to exceed
12.
4. In the event BCC establishes a Task Force, provide members of PARAB with
the prerogative to submit names of one member for each District for their
consideration
These meetings would be well publicized so citizens may attend and could be
held anywhere.
Ms. Till: Let's make these recommendations in a positive way, not negative.
1 . This Board be the core committee to make recommendations to BCC regarding
beach issues - information from all interested people is desired, meetings
will be publicized and hold public meetings to provide for the maximum
public participation.
Does this leave the door open for other people as members?
1 . We want to be the committee. If not, three things happen
A. 1. BCC allow PARAB to conduct public hearings on beach access and fee
issue.
2. In the event BCC decides to appoint a Task Force, all members of PARAB
be members.
3. Members be limited on Task Force, not to exceed 12.
4. Prerogative of members of PARAB to submit 1 person's name from their
District for consideration by the BCC for the appointment to Task
Force.
Ms. Till suggested combing to two:
B. 1. All PARAB be core committee of any committee to make recommendations
on beach issues, fees, and any other beach issues.
2. Will hold public meetings which will publicize for public information.
Gil: Motion adopt B and submit it for BCC consideration. Ms.
Geneva Till seconded.
Kim: PARAB be core i.e. all PARAB members be on any committee that addresses
that issue. In consideration of the fact that we have addressed these issues
on a frequent basis, make the recommendation that BCC approve B 1 and 2.
Gil: We are reminding them that it is our purpose.
FINAL MOTION BY GIL MUELLER: In consideration of the fact that we have spent
a substantial amount of time historically on beach access issues and fee
issues, as well as other issues related to the beaches, we would like to
Ar recommend to the County Commission that:
4
1 . All members of PARAB be a core committee to make recommendations to BCC on
the beach access issue and fees and any other beach issues.
2. Hold public meetings which will be well publicized to provide for maximum
public participation on this issue.
Seconded by Ms. Geneva Till. Motion approved unanimously.
Murdo: When you say core committee, does that mean you are going to be the
central focus and you don' t mind other members?
Gil: Yes, we are making it clear and reminding them that that is our purpose
and we should be a part of it.
Kim: Give the Board synopsis of minutes with Recommendation.
Back to Productivity Report - 16.1
5