Minutes 03/14/1991 W Park & Recreation
Advisory Board
( PARAH )
Minutes
_March 14 , 1991
t
PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD WORKSHOP
March 14, 1991
PRESENT: Chairman Kobza
Mr. Gil Mueller
Ms. Geneva Till
ABSENT: Mr. Steven Ball
Ms. Cherryle Thomas
The meeting was called to order at 1:45 pm.
There is a lot of material covered in our regular meetings, and there is not
an opportunity to brainstorm and discuss our expectations in terms of goals,
priorities, and what needs to be accomplished. Chairman Kobza wants to set a
plan for the rest of the current year to January and to put it on an agenda so
that priorities and desired accomplishments for this period are understood.
Mr. Steve Ball, representative for District #4 (City of Naples) will be
resigning from the Board. Mr. Ball has accepted a position in New Zealand.
In appreciation of his service, a plaque will be given to Mr. Ball at the next
meeting. Chairman Kobza will send a letter to the Board of County
Commissioners to try to expedite the advertisement process to fill the
vacancy. One of PARAB's priorities will be to promote quality appointments
and participation, and to maintain the quality and continuity of the Board.
Ms. Geneva Till suggested having a substitute for members not able to attend
meetings. Chairman Kobza requested that Mr. Murdo Smith report back to the
Board on how many meetings Ms. Cherryle Thomas has attended and how many she
has missed since appointment.
Ms. Geneva Till suggested PARAB prioritize the swimming pool and do some
concrete planning. The CIE plan says 1991/92, so she does not see any reason
for waiting.
Mr. Murdo Smith explained the memo passed out at the workshop denoting the
responsibilities in each Board member's district.
Chairman Kobza requested that PARAB discuss at this workshop: (1) Pool, (2)
Budget (in a general perspective and the percentage of budgeted capital
expenditures versus operational) , (3) Beach Accesses, (4) Catamarans, and (5)
Park Ranger Program.
Community Centers: The County borrowed approximately 1.3 million dollars by
Resolution for construction of the Centers. Conklin Point was purchased with
Reserve money from the 306 Fund and the plan is to replenish the money with
the proceeds from the Bluebill property sale. The first Engineering Review
Team meeting was held this morning to choose an Engineer and the list was
narrowed to four. Those four will be interviewed before the final
recommendation is made. There is no action on Bluebill as of yet. Conklin is
budgeted for approximately $963,000 in this year's budget. A portion of
that, $400,000, will be from Boater Improvement Funds; the other $500,000 is
General Fluid money.
Chairman Kobza commented that he is trying to get to the point where PARAB
understands where some of the money is coming from, so they can figure out how
to get to the point to do the pool. Mr. Gil Mueller suggested that the Board
should have an understanding of that, and that perhaps previous Boards did
not. If we can really get into some of the underlying mechanics, maybe we can
expedite the funds a little better. Ms. Geneva Till did not realize just how
dependent PARAB is on staff.
The pool will be a tremendous responsibility for the Department once it is
constructed and operating. The three Community Centers will be built and come
on line approximately October 1. In addition, Conklin Point should come on
line about June 1992. That is going to create some significant operational
cost increases. We have Barefoot Beach to contend with, and we are struggling
to find $20,000 in the Operating Budget to place a Park Ranger at the
Preserve. There are two parts of level of service that are provided: (1) Do
you have the facility and (2) Do you have the people to operate the facility?
That affects the rate of depreciation of the facilities and everything else.
Now we have the three Community Centers coming on line, we would like to
promote the pool for this coming year, and we have Conklin Point coming on
line. The important thing is to make sure the operational resources are
available to handle all the Capital Improvement Facilities. We will need
expanded staff, and user fees will probably not cover all the operational
cost. If the people are not available to properly man those facilities, it
will advance the rate of depreciation, especially for the first year. The
first year sets a standard as to how the facilities are maintained.
When new facilities are constructed operational monies are placed in the
budget. In the Budget process we anticipate the time the facility will be
open, and then budget for a specified period of time (i.e. a whole year) . The
County Manager has recommended to our Department - as an example - go for 6
months operation for the year, but if construction is completed sooner, come
back to the Board for operational money. There are three positions that will
be budgeted for each community center; however there is only one new position,
a Community Center Aide. Chairman Kobza suggested building new facilities
slower, and ensure proper staffing.
Mr. Gil Mueller commented that the Rotary Club of Marco Island has asked him
to make a 7:00 am presentation. Topic of "Educating the Public as to What Our
Needs Are" was suggested.
Jean Egan, Sr. Fiscal Clerk was requested to attend the meeting to enlighten
the Board as to where our money comes from. The money comes from 14 different
sources, such as ad valorem taxes, regional impact fees and State and Federal
taxes. Chairman Kobza requested staff to provide copies of the budget for
PARAB. Some of PARAB's questions were: (1) Where does the money come from?
/2) To what extent does that go into operation (3) To what extent does ad
valorem go into Capital facility development (4) To what extent Impact Fees
and (5) Fund balances for impact fees.
Chairman Kobza asked general questions regarding the overall budget, how that
breaks down into operation monies by category, what portion of it is Capital
facilities oriented, and fund balances in terms of impact fees. Jean showed
PARAB the final adopted Budget Form 1990/91 and offered to make copies of it.
It shows the '89, '90 and the '91 budget in comparison all the way through
with percentages of change between the Personal, Operating, and Capital. The
total 1988 Budget was 2.4 million, 1989 was 2.9 million, and 1990 was 3.1
million. That is strictly the operating as far as equipment and vehicles.
This is the General Fund 001, for the entire Department. You also have five
other areas that you are concerned with. You have impact fees, the MSTD
(Immokalee) , and also the 306 Fund. Chairman Kobza asked about the 1 mill, if
the monies are segregated. Jean believes that is done in Budget and we do not
have that detail. It may be broken out, but she has never seen it. Chairman
Kobza "In other words, they don't invade the 1 mill park levy for other
purposes." Jean "No. Not out of General Fund." Chairman Kobza "So, to the
extent that there is 1 mill there in 306, whatever that generates on a yearly
basis, that is available for the Capital facilities". Jean, "Right".
Chairman Kobza, "Now. That 1 mill isn't used for operational money?" "No.
That is specifically set aside in that Fund only". Murdo, "That's Capital
Projects County wide, Kim. County-wide Capital Projects, not just Parks".
CHairman Kobza, "How do we know how much goes into Parks? Is that arbitrarily
set by the Board each year?" Mr. Murdo Smith, "I don't know if a percentage
is allocated to Parks specifically. We request funds for Capital Projects at
the beginning of the Budget year and then the County Manager's office
recommends projects to be funded to the Board. Year to year, there is no
guarantee that we get a definite percentage. cast year we had a 7.1 increase.
The sources of the General Fund moneys themselves come from ad valorem,
delinquent taxes, state revenue sharing, and federal taxes. There is at least
14 different sources. Chairman Kobza asked for copies of the final adopted
Budget for 1990/91. Ms. Geneva Till asked for just the pages that have to do
with Parks and Recreation.
Basically, when looking at the pool facility, they are saying the real estate
sales will part of that. Mr. Murdo Smith, "I think a lot was going to be
funded from impact fees. That would be a separate issue from the ad valorem
taxes. That is something the Board would ultimately decide. I think the
reason they wished to put it at the Regional Park at one time was because it
was a regional facility and impact fees were going to be used. I think we can
still put the pool facility here and use regional park impact fee funds. It
is still the center of town, or regional area.
Chairman Kobza asked what other Capital facilities would be proposed next
year. Any facilities in the Growth Management Plan that were deferred were
moved to the next year. So we would have two baseball fields, the additional
Community Center at Golden Gate Community Park, four fitness trails, two
additional football/soccer fields, a jogging trail (asphalt path) here at
Golden Gate, the Olympic swimming pool, racquetball courts, two lanes of boat
ramps that may go up to four, and purchase property for Community Park #7.
That is what we would be asking for next year, but obviously all that cannot
be funded. If the Board wishes to prioritize, like you have made the swimming
pool a priority, we can do that for the other items also. I think that we
need to realize that these other facilities are in the Growth Management Plan
and are supposed to be constructed in that five year window. Roughly we have
1 million dollars in baseball fields, another couple hundred thousand in
fitness trails, and another 1/2 million in Community Centers. Mr. Gil Mueller
commented that he thinks it is more important to operate the existing
facilities efficiently as opposed to developing more parks. Facilities should
be adequately staffed before considering building additional parks. Ms.
Geneva Till commented about the success and popularity of the Summer program,
people lining up very early for registration because the program fills up so
quickly.
The Golden Gate Community Park Community Center would be for meetings and
programs only. It is included in the Master Plan and would be a separate
building. Chairman Kobza asked Murdo if he felt that if all or half of the
proposed facilities were constructed that they could be adequately operated
and maintained. Mr. Murdo Smith replied that if the pool were build it would
need staffing; ballfields - would probably request another groundskeeper. It
depends on the location and type of facility. Barefoot Beach has impacted the
Department more than the baseball field as it is a larger area and farther
away. A baseball field would be handled easier because the facility is
staffed and once you drag one field you can drag the other. There are a
number of things to consider - one must look at Growth Management
requirements, the funding available and the operational impact. Of course the
County Manager and the BCC consider that when funding projects. Chairman
Kobza commented that PARAB can greatly influence how and where the money is
spent.
Chairman Kobza - The beach access issue is a critical issue and one of the
most visible in the County. We have limited opportunities for beach access
and how we develop that parking is part of the issue. We need to take
advantage of those opportunities available today. Vanderbilt Beach was
recently developed out. In 1968 there was hardly a building on it and as it
was developed past County boards did not require accesses to be built or
provide for parking. When accesses were provided they were very limited with
no parking. Sometimes developers were required to made dedications and in
some cases the developer was allowed to release the dedication. Mr. Gil
Mueller agreed and stated that there are solid chain link fences for miles on
Marco and is probably the only beach area in maybe all of Southwest Florida
that has such minimal beach access. Chairman Kobza commended that the beach
is a natural recreational amenity and not a dramatic capital improvement. I
have two ideas of what needs to be done in Vanderbilt (1) on Vanderbilt Beach
Road, directly across from our parking facility, there is a block there owned
by Baron Collier. That is probably the key potential parking facility in that
whole area and it has some natural advantages. It is across from our existing
parking facility and would be easily serviced. It is near commercial
development, so there is no impact on residential type uses, it is an easy
walk to the beach and the amenities are all in place. I would like to take
some of our surplus park land in another location and try to trade it for that
site. Mr. Gil Mueller suggested this as a topic for future discussion. (2)
The State is undertaking a policy at State level, of reducing staff in their
state parks and turning over operations to local authorities. In reference to
Wiggins Pass State Park, there is only one gate while there is room for two.
Presently cars line all the way down Bluebill attempting to get into that
facility. The fee is significantly more that the County rates as they
maintain people 24 hours there. Chairman Kobza would like to see the County
consider leasing that facility from the State and enhancing the use of it.
® The County owns 50 feet of right-of-way on Bluebill going north and if we were
leasing it we could create parking along the north side of Bluebill or even on
the Bluebill site. It doesn't make sense to expend money on parking
facilities unless we have control of the facility and set our own standards.
It could be done at a zero cost because revenue would offset expenses.
A Task Force Meeting regarding Barefoot Preserve is scheduled for 3:00 pm
tomorrow. An Executive Summary is prepared stating the County wishes to build
a gate house at the park entrance, staff it and charge $1.00 parking fee. In
return, Lely Development would, in agreement for five years, pay for half the
salary of the attendant the first year, 40% the next, 30% the next, and all
the way down. Contact would be maintained between gate houses by telephone or
radio. Mr. Agnali would purchase radios if needed. The County would be
staffing the gate house with four part-time people. Based on 40 cars per day
approximately $14,000 revenue would be recognized; however, salaries would
cost approximately $35,000 the first year and if Mr. Agnali pays half it
would be reduced to $17,500. The gatehouse facility would cost approximately
$30,000 - $20,000 for the facility and $10,000 for utilities. Chairman Kobza
expressed his concerns about Lely Barefoot and its relation to the Park Ranger
Program. Although there are at least two rangers on duty, the area to police
is large. Adding two more Rangers was suggested. One could patrol Barefoot
Beach and one Tigertail Beach during certain parts of the season. Park Ranger
district control areas are in the process of being proposed. Chairman Kobza
suggested some political lobbying - more Park Rangers are needed as well as
the "frozen" positions in Recreation. Eight people are needed to improve the
level of service standards that we have right now. Chairman Kobza proposed
improving the current level of service standards and then add more facilities.
Mr. Gil Mueller suggested using the Tourist Tax to maintain our beach
facilities. Chairman Kobza agreed. Some of these proceeds could be used to
provide beach supervision or the Park Ranger Program. Chairman Kobza asked
for figures on the number of people using our parks annually. Also the annual
upkeep of the horse, the attention devoted it it, and how much is it used?
Ms. Geneva Till was not aware we had a horse. Animal Control does a lot of
maintenance of the horse, Nan does some training, etc. It is at all the
Special Events and is great for crowd control. Nan patrols Barefoot Beach on
horseback which is more effective that ATV patrol. We are possibly getting
another 1 or 2 horses.
Mr. Gil Mueller questioned why the CABB organization, primarily from Bonita
Beach, can be so vocal when they are not from Collier County. Chairman Kobza
said that a lot of them are from Collier, they are very influential and
listened to by the Collier County Government and by the State. Many of the
most vocal are from Collier County, attend BCC meetings and are listened to by
the BCC.
Chairman Kobza wished PARAB to identify the possibility of a catamaran spot
and permit system on the beach. Conklin Point could be used for launching,
whereas Clam Pass and Barefoot Beach would not be suitable locations. Mr.
Murdo Smith will review this with the Park Ranger Supervisor. The question is
do we have an area to park and store catamarans on the beach. Mr. Murdo Smith
suggested using Vanderbilt Beach Access; also buying some property on
Vanderbilt Beach itself to use as an access.
Mr. Gil Mueller suggested adding user fees to the list as a topic of
discussion and developing sources of revenue.
Chairman Kobza will try to draft some verbiage on each of these topics as a
type of an agenda of items that PARAB is working on and bring it to the BCC's
attention so the BCC is aware of what PARAB is doing.
Meeting adjourned at 3:35 pm.
PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD WORKSHOP
March 14, 1991
PRESENT: Chairman Kobza
Mr. Gil Mueller
Ms. Geneva Till
ABSENT: Mr. Steve Ball
Ms. Cherryle Thomas
The meeting was called to order at 1:45 p.m.
There is a lot of material that we cover in our normal meetings, that we
don't really get a chance to brainstorm and really find out amongst us what we
expect in terms of goals, priorities, and what needs to get done. Chairman
Kobza wants to set a plan for the rest of the current year to January. To put
on an agenda, where we understand where our priorities are going to be. What
things we want to push forward and make efforts to accomplish between now and
then.
Mr. Steve Ball, who is representing District #4 (the City of Naples) has
accepted a job in New Zeland. His next meeting will be his last. A plaque will
be given to Mr. Ball at the next meeting in appreciation of his service.
It was suggested to solicit worthwhile contributors to serve on the board. It
was suggested that Mr. Steve Ball should send a letter of resignation to Ms. Sue
Filson. Chairman Kobza commented that he will send a letter to the Board of
County Commissioners to try to expedite the advertisment process, and the
appointment process because we really need another board member right away.
It was agreed that we need to put in place people that will perpetuate what we
have accomplished here. So one of PARAB's priorties be to promote the quality
appointments and participation, and to maintain the quality of the board and the
continuity of the board. Ms. Geneva Till commented that perhaps we can have
someone as a substitute for Cheryle, so that if she can't come the other person
could. Chairman Kobza requested that Mr. Murdo Smith report back to the board
on how many meetings Ms. Cherryle Thomas has been at, and how many she has
missed since appointment.
Ms. Geneva Till--suggested that PARAB prioritize the pool, and to do some
concrete planning. The cut] Plan says 1991/92, so she doesn't see any reason for
us to wait.
Mt. Murdo Smith--explained the memo passed out at the workshop denoting the
responsibilities in each Board Member's district.
Chairman Kobza—requested that PARAB discuss at this workshop: (1) The
Pool, (2) Our Budget (in a general perspective and the percentage of budgeted
capital expenditures verses operational) , (3) Beach Access, (4) Catamarans, and
( ) The Park Ranger Program.
Mr. Gil Mueller--wanted to talk about the Park Ranger Program, Beach Acces,
and about budget. That Chairman Kobza pretty well covered it.
With the Community Centers, the County Board borrowed the moneys by
resolution to build them. It was about 1.3 million. The reason for this was
because of the Conklin point purchase. They purchased Conklin Point with all
the reserve money out of the 306 fund, and they were going to replenish that
with the money from the Bluebill sale. We just had our first Engineering Review
team meeting this morning to pick an engineer for it. We've narrowed the short
list down to four. We are going to interview those four, before we make our
final recommendations. No action on Bluebill as of yet. Conkling is budgeted
roughly for $963,000.00 in this year's budget. A portion of that is coming out
of boater improvement funds, about $400,000. The other $500,000 is general fund
money. Mr. Murdo Smith got the breakdown from Jean Egan, Senior Fiscal Clerk.
Page #2
Chairman Kobza commented that he is trying to get to the point where PARAB
understands where some of the money is coming fruiu, so we can figure out how to
get to the point where we can do the pool. Mr. Gil Mueller suggested that we •
should have some kind of a handle on that, and doesn't think that any prior
board did. Rather than us continuing to .talk these things through, if we can
really get into some of the underlying mechanics maybe we can expedite the funds
a little better. Ms. Geneva Till did not realize just how dependent PARAB is on
staff.
Nobody has contacted PARAB regarding the Task Force meeting tomorrow, March
15, 1991 at 3:00 p.m.
The pool will be a tremendous responsibility for us once we get that up and
running. We've built these three Community Centers. They are going to come on
line January 1. Plus, we've got Conklin Point, which will come on line around
January 1. That's going to create some significant operational cost increases.
Maybe it's time to get those moving along, before we build something else in the
next year. We've got Barefoot Beach, and we are struggling to find $20,000 in
the Operating Budget to put a Park Ranger in. There's two parts of the level of
service that's provided. One is, "Do you have the facility?", but the other is
"Do you have the people to operate the facility?" That affects the rate of
depreation of those facilities and everything else, so now we've got the three
Community Centers coming on line, and we'd like to promote the pool for this
coming year, and we've got Conklin Point coming on line all around January 1.
The important thing is to make sure that we have the Operational Resources to
handle all that Capital facilities improvement. We're going to have to have
expanded staff, and don't think that user fees can cover all the operational
cost under any scenario. If we don't have the people to properly man those
facilities, it's going to advance the rate of depreciation of those facilities,
especially first year that's true. Because that sets a standard as to how they
are maintained.
Usually when we get a new facility, we usually put some Operational Moneys
into the budget to handle that facility. The BCC may question the amounts of
Operational moneys requested. What we do in the budget process, is we
anticipate at what time the facility will be open. We will put them in for a
specified period of time (i.e. a whole year) , during the summer process they
may discover that maybe we are running a little behind, so at that time we may
adjust the budget a bit. A lot of times the County Manager has said to us
as an example "Well, let's go 6 months operation for the year, but if they're
built sooner, come back to me and we'll get you the money" There are three
positions that will be budgeted for the Community Centers, but there is only one
new position. One position is filled, and one is frozen, so actually we're
asking for only one new employee. We have the same situation in East Naples.
In Immokalee, we have the two positions, so we will only have to ask for one
janitorial position. We will be asking for three new positions next year in the
budget for sure. Chairman Kobza suggested to build new facilities slower, and
make sure we have the proper staffing.
Mr. Gil Mueller commented that the Rotary Club of Marco Island has asked
him to make a 7:00 a.m. presentation. Educating the public as to what our needs
are was suggested.
Jean Egan, Senior Fiscal Clerk was asked to come to the meeting to
enlighten the board as to where our money comes from. The moneys come from 14
different sources. Some of which are Advelorum taxes, regional impact fees, and
State and Federal taxes. Chairman Kobza requested staff to make copies of the
budget for PARAB. Some of PARAB's questions were: (1) Where does the money
come from? (2) To what does extent does that qo into operation (3) To what
extent does Advelorum go into Capital facility development? (4) To what extent
Impact Fees? (5) What are the fund balances on the impact fees
Page #3
Chairman Kobza asked some general questions regarding the overall budget,
how that breaks down into operational moneys by category, and then also, what
portion of it is capital facilities oriented, fund balances in terms of impact
fees. Jean showed PARAB the final adopted budget form 1990-91, and offered to
make PARAB copies of it. It shows the '89, '90, and the '91 budget all in
comparison all the way through with percentages of change between the personal,
operating, and capital. The total 1988 budget was 2.4 million, 1989 was 2.9
million, and 1990-91 was 3.1 million. That's strictly the operating as far as
equipment and vehicles and things of that nature. It doesn't include facilities
such as the Community Centers. This is the general fund, 001, for the entire
department. But, you've also got five other areas that you're concerned with.
You've got the impact fees, the MSTD (which is Immokalee) , the 306 fund. Four
different other areas that are not included in this total. They branch out in
different things. Chairman Kobza asked about the 1 million, if the monies are
segregated. Jean answered that she believes that is done up in Budget, that we
don't have that detail here. It may be broken out, but she has never seen it.
Chairman Kobza, "In other words, they don't invade the 1 million park levey for
other purposes." Jean, "No. Not out of general fund they don't." Chairman
Kobza, "So, to the extent that there's 1 million there in 306, whatever that
generates on a yearly basis, that's available for the capital facilities."
Jean, "Right". Chairman Kobza, "Now. That 1 million isn't used for operational
money?" Jean, "No. That's specifically set aside in that fund only." Murdo
"That's capital projects county wide, Kim. County wide capital projects, note
just parks". Utilities is totaly enterprise. Chairman Kobza, "How in that
306. How do we know how much goes into parks? Is that arbitrarily set by the
board each year?" Mr. Murdo Smith, "I'd don't know if they give us a
percentage. We request funds for capital projects at the beginning of the
budget year, and then they make their recommendations for which are going to be
funded and which is not to the Board. The County Manager does that." Year to
year, there is no guarantee that we get zero percent or 100 percent. We had a
7.1 percent increase last year. The sources of the General Fund moneys
themselves come from advelorum, delinquent taxes, state revenue sharing, federal
taxes. There's at least 14 different sources. Chairman Kobza asked for copies
of the final adopted book budget for 1990-91. Ms. Geneva Till asked for lust the
pages that have to do with Parks & Recreation.
Basically when we're looking at the pool facility, then they're saying the
real estate sales will be part of that. Mr. Murdo Smith, "I think a lot of that
was going to be funded out of impact fees. That would be a seperate issue from
the advelorum taxes or anything else. That's something the Board would
ultimately have to decide. But, that's, I think, one reason that they wanted to
put it at .he Regional Park at one time, because it was a regional facility, and
they were going to use impact fees. But, I think we can still put the pool
facility here, and use regional park impact fee funds to build it here. It's
still the center of town, or regional area."
Chairman Kobza asked what other capital facilities would be proposed next
year, in addition to the pool. What we have anticipated and what we did last
year, was any facilities that were in the Growth Management Plan that were
deferred, we moved them to the next year. So, we would have: Two baseball
fields, the addiditional Community Center at Golden Gate Community Park, Four
fitness trails, Two additional Football/Soccer fields, a jogging trail (asphalt
path) for here at Golden Gate, the Olympic Swimming Pool, Racquetball Courts,
Two lanes of Boat Ramps and that may go up to four, and then to purchase
property for Community Park #7. That's what we would be asking for next year,
but obviously they can not fund all that. If the Board wishes to make a
priority, like you've already made the swimming pool a priority. We can do the
same for these other items also. But, I think that you have to realize that
these other facilities are in the Growth Management Plan and they are saposed to
Page #4
be built in that five year window. Roughly, we've got 1 million dollars in
Baseball Fields, another couple hundred thousand in Fitness Trails, another 1/2
a million in Community Centers. Mr. Gil Mueller commented that he thinks it's •
more important to operate these things to the very best of our ability, as
apposed to developing more parks. First we should get things running smoothly
(i.e. adequately staffed) and then consider building additional parks. Ms.
Geneva Till, camtnented that the Summer program is so successful, and people line
up very early to get their children in it, and they're filled in 20 minutes.
The Golden Gate Community Park Community Center would be for meetings and
programs only. It would be a seperate building, which is in the Master Plan.
Chairman Kobza, "Assume you could build all or half of all those things. Do
you, Murdo, feel that you could adequately operate and maintain all those."
Mudo, "If we build the pool, staffing has to go with the pool. I think we can
handle the ballfield facilities also. . .If we do have another field, we propably
would request another groundskeeper. It depends on the location and the type of
facility. Probably one thing that has impacted us more than the Baseball field
is Barefoot Beach. It is farther away, and is a bigger area. The baseball
field they're able to handle, because they're staffed at the facility, and once
you drag one field you can drag the other."
The past Boards probably got that information. There's alot of things that
go into which facilities you want to build. You've got to look at Growth
Management and what we've got to build, how much funds the county has,' and of
course what the operation impact is going to be. Of course, the County Manager
and the BCC look at that when they're funding these projects also. Chairman
Kobza commented that PARAB can greatly influence where the moneys are spent and
haw.
Chairman Kobza, "The Beach Access Issue, I think, is probably one of the
most critical issues, and one of the most visible in the county. As the county
is now developing, we've got limited opportunities for beach access and how we
develope that parking which is part of the issue. I think we need to take
advantage of those opportunities today. From my understanding and research of
it is, one of the reasons we're in the box we're in, is because. . . For instance,
give you the example of Vanderbilt Beach. Perfect example! That beach was
recently developed out. I've got aerial photos of it, where in 1968, there
wasn't a building on it, one or two. As it was developed out, past county
boards, didn't require accesses to be built or provide for parking. Then, even
when they did provide accesses, they were very limited. Ten foot wide strips
and no parking at all. Or, where they did require developers to make
dedications, in some cases they went back and alowed the developer to release
the dedications. The history of the thing is extraordinary. It's just
unbelievable!" Mr. Gil Mueller, "You've got that Kim, and perhaps to a much
greater degree on Marco. You solid chain link fences for miles on Marco. To my
knowledge, it's the only beach area in maybe all of southwest Florida that has
such minimal beach access. You have three entrances, in effect." Chairman
Kobza, "You know, you are in a situation, where a beach is a natural
recreational ammenity. You're not talking about a proportion of the recreation
it provides, a dramatic capital improvement. But, proportionate to the number
of people it serves, it's not Capital intensive as other types of facilities.
Up in Vanderbilt, I've got two ideas basically as to what we need to do up
there. (1) There's a site on Vanderbilt Beach Road, right across from our
parking facility, right across from the Ritz Carlton, where it's owned by Barron
Collier. There's a whole block there. That is probably the key potential
parking facility in that whole area. It's the only one that I'm really aware
of. You know, it has some natural advantages. It's right across from our
existing parking facility, so it should be easily serviced. It's near
commercial development, so you're not impacting residential type uses. It's a
easy walk to the beach. the ammenities are already in place, so we're not
Page #5
redeveloping all that. I would like to try to take some of our surplus park
land, in another location, and some horse trading with Barron Collier to get
that site as a parking site. Mr. Gil Mueller suggested this as a topic that we
should discuss. (2) The state is currently,undertaking policy at a state
level, of reducing staff in their state parks and turning over operations in
some locations to local authorities. We have have a real operational issue with
Wiggins Pass State Park, because it's operated as a state park facility. With
a much more limited access as to how our county facilities are run. Like, they
only have one gate at a time, that they have room for two. So, cars line up all
the way down Bluebill up to 41 sometimes trying to get into that facility. It's
a very limited facility. They're charging significantly more than what our
rates are. Part of that is that they maintain 24 hour people living there. So,
their operational expenses are high. Chairman Kobza would like to see the
County consider leasing that facility from the state. That is would enhance the
use of it. He thinks the county would do things as a county to make it more
usable and provide better access. The county owns 50 feet of right-of-way on
Bluebill going to the north. That might make some sense if we were not
beholding to the state in the operation of their facility. See, the problem is,
we can create parking along the north side of Bluebill for instance or even on
the Bluebill site. But we're beholding to the state, because they're operating
that state facility. So, if they change their regulations on how many people
they're going to alow in the park, or whatever it is. Then we can provide all
the parking we want to, and it's not going to make a world of difference. It
doesn't make sense to go make the expenditure on the parking, unless we have
control of the facility and can set our own standards. We could do it at a zeo
cost, because the revenue generation in the way we would operate it would cover
the expense. We can even reduce the fee, and given the operation of our other
parks. . .
Tape #2, Side A
A task force meeting is scheduled for 3:00 p.m. tomorrow. The Executive
SuIimary states that the county wishes to build a guard house at our park
entrance, staff it, and charge a $1.00 fee for parking. In return Lely
Development would be in agreement for five years to pay for half the salary the
first year, 40 percent the next, 30 percent all the way down. Contact will be
maintained between guard houses either by telephone or radio. Mr. Agnali said
he would purchase radios is need. We will be staffing it with four part-time
people. We base it on 40 cars per day going into that facility. We will get
about $14,000 worth of revenue every year. However, the salaries are going to
cost roughly $35,000 for the first year. Now if Mr. Agnali pays half of that,
that'll be 17.5 The gatehouse facility itself is going to cost roughly $30,000
to build. $20,000 is the gatehouse facility, and about $10,000 for utilities.
Chairman Kobza expressed his concerns about Lely Barefoot and how it relates to
the park ranger program. That we ougth to have some beach supervision. Mr.
The park rangers are policing everything. There are always at 1Past 2 rangers
on duty, and it's tough to get to all these places, and because of the amount of
staffing, we do the best we can. They can't be everywhere at every time for
everybody. Adding two more Park Rangers to budget was suggested. We could have
one person doing Barefoot Beach and one person doing Tigertail'Beach during
certain parts of the season. Right now, Park Ranger district control areas are
being proposed. Staff is looking into the possibility of getting them into
districts. Chairman Kobza commented that some political lobying is necessary.
Page #6
Park Rangers are short, and we need them. But, Recreation is also short
and we need them also. Eight people are needed by Parks & Recreation to improve
the level of service standards that we have right now. Chairman Kobza proposed
to improve the level of servis standards that we have right now and then go on
and add more facilities. Mr. Gil Mueller suggested using the Tourist Tax to
maintain our Beach facilities. Chairman Kobza thought that was a good idea. We
could utilize some of those proceeds to provide our beach supervision, or
perhaps our Park Ranger Program. Chairman Kobza asked for figures on how many
people use our parks annually.
What does the horse cost us annually in upkeep, what kind of attention is
devoted to it, and I guess the question is how much use do we really get out of
the horse? If the tradeoff is the horse versus and extra Park Ranger. . . Ms.
Geneva Till commented that she didn't even know we had a horse. Mr. Murdo Smith
commented that we are possibly getting another 1-2 horses. But, Animal Control
does a lot of the maintenance of that horse. Nan does spend some time training
and so forth. But basically she's got it at a point now where the horse is
pretty well trained. It's at all the Special Events, wherever we have a lot
crowd control it's a great thing to have. She patrols Barefoot Beach on'
horseback. That is more effective that ATV patrol. You can nock people over
with that horse. It'11 just keep pushing them back.
Mr. Gil Mueller questioned why the CABB organizaiton, primarily form Bonita
Beach, can be aloud to be as vocal when they are not even from Collier'County.
• Chairman Kobza corrected him, saying that a lot of them rPAlly are. They are
very influential, and listened to by the Collier Count Government and are
listend to by the State. Many of the most vocal ones are from Collier County.
They go to alot of County Commission meetings, they are very vocal, and are much
more vocal by the way than we are. They are listened to by the BCC.
Chairman Kobza wants PARAB to identify the possibility of a Catamaran spot,
and permit system on the beach. Conklin Point Could be used for launching now.
• Clam Pass doesn't have that kind of access. Barefoot Beach is not very good.
Mr. Murdo Smith will review it with Nan. The question is, do we have an area to
park them on the beach, to store them on the beach. Mr. Murdo Smith suggested
to use Vanderbilt Beach Access.
Mr. Murdo Smith suggested buying some property on Vanderbilt Beach itself
to use as an access. There are 1-2 maybe that are potentials for use.
Mr. Gil Mueller suggested adding user fees to the list as a topic of
discussion. Developing sources of revenue.
Chairman Kobza will try to draft some verbage or some language on each of
these topics as kind of an adoption of an agenda of items that they would like
to bring to the County Boards's attention, that we're working on. So that we
can convey it to the BCC, so that they know what we're doing.
The meeting was adjourned at 3:35 p.m.
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