Minutes 11/13/1990 MINUTES
JOINT - PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD
CITY COUNTY CHAMBERS
NAPLES, FLORIDA
NOVEMBER 13, 1990
PRESENT: Mr. Woody Allen, Chairman (City)
Mr. Cliff Crawford
Mr. Don Devoe (City)
Mr. Chris Holley (City)
Mr. Kim Kobza, Chairman (County)
Mr. Gil Mueller (County)
Mr. Kevin O'Donnell (arrived at 9:50 a.m.)
Mr. Bob Rider (City)
Mr. Murdo Smith (arrived at 11:30 a.m.)
Ms. Jill Stevens (City)
Ms. Geneva Till (County)
ABSENT: Mr. Steve Ball, Vice Chairman
Ms. Cherryle Thomas
I. CALL TO ORDER:
The Joint Meeting was called to order at 9:18 a.m.
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A. INTER-DEPARTMENTAL COOPERATION:
Chris Holley introduced five issues to be discussed at this meeting. Mr. Cliff Crawford is replacing
Mr. Chris Holley as FRPA District VI Director and will serve in this capacity for the next two years.
This District will be the host for the State Conference on Marco Island in September of 1991. Subjects
to be discussed at the conference are: Education programs in Athletics, Aquatics, Therapeutics,
Community Centers, and Department of Natural Resources.
Discussion proceeded with the use of facilities in both the county & the city. Mr. Chris Holley stated
that last year both departments went through a State Training program for Drug Awareness.
Both Departments have athletic leagues that they try very hard not to overlap. Both Directors indicated
that on a day to day basis they attempt to cooperate with each other. Mr. Holley then asked the board
members for ideas on improvements. Mr. Woody Allen suggested how to proceed with comments.
Mr. Kim Kobza introduced some of the issues that PARAB is concerned with: Recycling, Beach Access
policies as it relates to the beach environment, and the issue of Catamaran regulation in the beach
environment. Mr. Kim Kobza asked for other members thoughts on these issues. Mr. Chris Holley stated
that the City's Recycling Program is an extensive one coordinated by the Utilities Division. Their
Board's involvement at this point was to place cans designated "Aluminum only!" at three beach accesses
primarily in and around the pier, because that's where the most people congregate. Recycling bins are
being established at the community centers and other public facilities. Administratively they're not
involved a great deal, although they support recycling.
Mr. Chris Holley stated that "Boats on the Beach" has been an issue with the city for a number of years.
Five to six years ago they drafted an ordinance, brought it before the ADVISORY Board, and forwarded it
onto the Council. It would have regulated and restricted Florida sailboats on beach areas. At that
point, a decision was made that the problem was not severe enough to implement the ordinance. The city
allows sailboats within the areas that they control, which would be the right of ways where all of some
34 accesses are located, but not allowed in Loudermilk Park, the largest beach facility. Boats in front
of property owners, who have rights down to the mean high water tine, are up to the property owners. If
the City receives a complaint about a boat stored in front of a residence, the City will tag the boat,
and then have the boat removed. Ultimately, the feeling is that this issue will have to be readdressed
as the community grows.
Mr. Chris Holley stated there are number of Beach Access issues that are going to come up in the next
year or two. There has been a lot of discussion recently about how to fund Beach Renourishment -
possibly using the meter system that the city uses, or selling permits versus giving them away as a
funding source. There seems to be a general consensus from the Council that the City take a more active
role; It has been a County project but with the failure of the sales tax the City of Naples become more
actively involved.
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Mr. Chris Holley suggested having a consistent fee structure for people to park or have access to a
• beach. Mr. Bob Rider asked if were possible to do joint maintenance and purchasing of equipment;
working together in that area may possibly save both the County and the City money. Also, he asked if
it were possible in the future that we have one recreational staff that handles jointly both the County
and the City. Mr. Chris Holley stated that both City & County Purchasing Directors have discussed joint
purchases. Mr. Cliff Crawford commented that maybe we should define what specialized equipment both the
City and County could use. Mr. Chris Holley suggested that the area of large volume purchases, such as
fertilizer and chlorine, could be considered. He suggested getting the Purchasing Directors involved,
looking at both budgets and planning this for future purchases. Mr. Chris Holley suggested that the
consolidation issue is really out of the Directors hands, and should be addressed by the Commissions.
Mr. Cliff Crawford stated that even the development of the Community Park system is worked around the
City service delivery system and the type of activities that are provided to the City residents. The
County tries not to duplicate activities or special events to give the public more choices.
Mr. Kim Kobza suggested that perhaps the County participate with the City in programs similar to their
Jazz series. Mr. Chris Holley suggested that there will probably be a number of opportunities to
support each other when the County starts doing cultural events, whether it's a package series
presenting more buying power because of a number of events, or possibly sharing of the equipment.
Obviously sound and light equipment are very expensive to rent; if there are enough events it may be
beneficial to purchase it and share. Mr. Chris Holley also suggested that the City would be willing to
share their experiences and knowledge of cultural events that have been successful in the past, and
maybe even ultimately work together on events. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell and Chris Holley sat on a study
group about two years ago that recommended an umbrella cultural agency, possibly under the County's
Public Services Division, that could distribute the funds for worthwhile projects. He hopes that each
year the funds would not just be handed over to one particular entity in the community, but would be
available for either Recreation Department, as well as other worthwhile cultural entities, who would
apply for a grant. Perhaps there is a way that your Advisory Board of staff can carry that to the
Commission, we certainly hope that that takes place.
Plans for the Tropicool Festival Committee are underway. The Chamber of Commerce plans a two week
series in May and the City was very involved last year. Mr. Cliff Crawford sent a representative to the
recent meetings. This is another excellent opportunity where both agencies could work together and come
up with a series of events.
Mr. Woody Allen commented that they have not discussed Beach Renourishment as a Parks Board, but the
'4 City Council has. He does not like to bring up controversial issues but suggested making
recommendations on these issues. Mr. Chris Holley does not know which Department will handle Beach
Renourishment.
Mr. Don Devoe suggested exchanging names and phone numbers of the Advisory Boards, as well as the
minutes of each meeting for the two Boards, so that one knows what the other is doing on a more direct
basis.
Mr. Kevin O'Donnell commented that the County is putting together a system where it will be able to
accept applications from various agencies that are going to make requests for the funding of various
program elements, particularly the cultural aspect of it. The County has not reached any conclusion yet
as to the forms that will be used or how the funds will be dispersed. At this point legal ramifications
are still being considered, but expect a decision within 30-40 days.
Mr. Don Devoe brought up the subject of the Amphitheater. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell stated that the County,
through its capital improvement program, has decided to purchase a portable Uhit. Even though it will
more or less be assigned to North Naples, it will have the capability of being moved throughout the
• County. Mr. Chris Holley suggested that attendance at the Conference at the exhibit hall would be real
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entertaining for the Advisory Board members because it would give them a feel of what's available for
facilities of this type of mobile staging. Mr. Cliff Crawford commented that in follow-up to Mr.
Rider's comment on joint use in cooperative issues, this would be a real good area. This is an
expensive purchase that will be used for all residents of Collier County and will be useful for special
event activities. Mr. Chris Holley suggested a joint effort on the "Red Rock Cafe" event with this
portable staging. Mr. Cliff Crawford will be bringing to PARAB recommendations of this purchase. Mr.
Bob Rider suggested putting it together as a joint management, run the programs together as one entity
on a year round basis, and have maximum use of that piece of equipment, and some shared expenses. That
kind of thing can be worked out very nicely and solve a problem that the City has with some of the
neighbors, and at the same time the City could help with their expertise in this area. Mr. Woody Allen
suggested moving on to the next item.
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CMs. Geneva Till questioned if the Amphitheater is already scheduled for purchase. Mr. Kim Kobza asked
Mr. Kevin O'Donnell which impact fee moneys would fund this purchase. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell stated since
it will be based out of the North Naples Community Park, the impact fee money for that District would be
used.
B. IMPACT FEES:
Mr. Chris Holley stated that within the last few weeks the City has implemented an interim Parks &
Recreation impact fee ordinance. The City Board has not reviewed it yet; at this point, Council has
adopted a $135.45 per resident impact fee for recreation facilities. This impact fee will be used to
meet the City's deficiency in neighborhood parks. There will be a final report issued within 120 days
advising Council on what to adopt. Mr. Cliff Crawford discussed the County's projected impact fees with
the other members. Currently being anticipated for construction, using impact fees, are three Community
Centers. Some analysis and studies regarding our Community Park impact fee districts have been
completed and reviewed with Mr. Kevin O'Donnell. We're looking at the definitions, boundaries and
perhaps consolidation of some of the community impact fee districts by recognizing different user
patterns, people using the different parks, the types of activities, and where they're coming from,
regarding their participation in Parks and Recreation activities. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell stated that all
of the County Beacil owned facilities are going to be considered as part of the regional parks.
Currently the County has in excess of 390 acres that are collectively beach front facilities. The
difference between that and what our standards call for, which is 700 acres, is approximately 250 acres.
That will be made up if we are successful in our negotiations with the Baltimore Orioles in getting the
baseball facility. The entire acreage that the baseball facility will sit on, as well as an area that's
reserved exclusively for the County, will consist of 200 acres. That will leave a deficiency of 60
acres or so the County will have to acquire by 1994. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell also stated that the
developments that we are contemplating at the Barefoot Beach Preserve will be developed with impact
fees. We have approximately $500,000.00 scheduled in this years' budget to do some dune crossovers,
some restroom facilities, and additional parking. Further discussion entailed the proposed regional
baseball facility.
Mr. Woody Allen questioned whether the County would own the property that the proposed Golf Course will
be on, and how much input will the County have on the operation and use of it. Mr. Cliff Crawford
commented that it will be privately owned. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell commented that the golf course will be
open to the public, it will be privately run, it is not considered park property as such.
C. SWIMMING POOLS:
Mr. Chris Holley stated that this issue has been discussed several different times by the Board.
With the County having no pool, and the City having a very small pool, it really boils down to the YMCA
pool for a Community Pool for the greater Naples area. We were informed for the last two or three
years, that the County would have a pool at Golden Gate. Kevin O'Donnell quoted the County's Growth
Management Plan, which calls for two pools; the County will only build one Olympic size pool. Since
Golden Gate Community Park is centrally located, it was originally suggested the pool be located there;
however, we are experiencing a problem with the GGCP location due to the parking requirements that it
will take. Since we are only going to build one Olympic size pool, this could be a project that could
be eligible for regional park impact fees. Depending on what happens with the Baltimore Orioles, this
pool may or may not get relocated to a regional park. It had always been thought that an Olympic sized
pool, just due to the size and draw that it would have, would be a natural for a regional park type of
facility. It is scheduled in the budget by 1994 to be concurrent with the Growth Management Plan. Mr.
Cliff Crawford stated that is is scheduled to be constructed next year, and we are moving forward on the
drawing this year. Mr. Chris Holley suggested that from a Department standpoint, he would rather see it
closer to town rather than out on Immokalee Road, if Regional Park Impact Fees were going to be spent on
it and if the City were going to have a certain amount of stake in it, from the High School use and the
City residents standpoint. Mr. Chris Holley suggested buying 60 acres close to town and putting in a
pool. Mr. Cliff Crawford also looked at the Lely area, with the tremendous growth there, and the need
for a Community Park there. Mr. Chris Holley asked if the pool would fit in either the ENCP or the
NNCP. Mr. Cliff Crawford answered no and stated that the County is looking at design considerations
that would enhance the revenue opportunities with special features, (i.e. a water slide). Any
opportunity that would provide more, and be closer to being self-funded than a traditional operation, is
part of our goals and part of our design considerations. Mr. Holley asked how many acres it would take.
Mr. Cliff Crawford suggested five to seven. He also stated that he would like to place the facility in
an area that would accommodate future growth and future needs within the Aquatic Community. Not all of
our facilities, because they were designed several years ago, have that ability to do that. Mr. Kim
Kobza commented that we have held budget review hearings as an advisory board, and prior to those
hearings our resolution was that we schedule the three community centers which are currently under
construction, and the Amphitheater, which was approved by the BCC. Also as part of that
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resolution we recommended that the pool facility be the next priority and our comprehensive plan is to
develop those types of facilities.
Mr. Chris Holley asked about the Gymnasium. Mr. Kim Kobza commented that we've acquired a gymnasium at
the Immokalee Middle School as part of the swap with the School Board. We have a three year plan to put
some additional improvements out there, and the plan also calls for a Gymnasium in the Greater Naples
Area. This will actually be located in East Naples. It really is a multipurpose building, with an
indoor basketball court, a volleyball court, some locker room facilities, a small stage room. That was
a budget item that was deferred. Mr. Cliff Crawford commented that the preliminary design for that
facility is just about 100% complete, and offered to share it with the other members if they wish to see
what it looks like and have any ideas.
D. JOINT USE AGREEMENTS:
Mr. Chris Holley passed a copy of this agreement, that was recently approved, to all the members. Mr.
Chris Holley stated that they currently have some $400,000.00 from their Capital Budget to improve
School sites. About a year and a half ago all parties concerned began negotiating this new agreement
which would give the City an opportunity to develop sites within the city limits and to reserve that
right for the county outside the city limits in some language that addressed potential annexation for
additional sites for the future. It does require a review by the School Board. The City is just now
beginning improvements as Gulf View Middle School and at Lake Park Elementary School, and language in
the agreement pretty much reserves the Seagate site for County use for five (5) years. The County has
shifted its' interest from developing school sites to community park sites first. Seagate will be
controlled by the County until April of 1995, and then scheduling is turned over to the City. The
agreement had a 10 year depreciation schedule in it. Mr. Bob Rider commented about the Directors
professionalism and the obvious cooperation that has been going on - that he is really impressed.
Mr. Kim Kobza summarized the subjects of the agreements that the City & County made. First we made an
agreement to make joint purchasing decisions to the benefit of both the County and the City, secondly we
agreed to the sharing of the Agenda and the Minutes from our meetings so each Board knows what the other
is doing on a monthly basis. Third, we have discussed the possible joint coordination of the Cultural
Events. Beyond that Mr. Kim Kobza commented that he believes we have had an excellent informational
discussion. He also encouraged that both on a personal level and on a Board level, that there be more
interaction between the members. Mr. Kim Kobza commented that he would like to be very much aware of
what the City is doing in some of the issues that we're addressing, and believes he is speaking for a
few other Board members as well.
Mr. Chris Holley talked to his Board members about their December meeting. They will be electing new
officers in January, 1991. Mr. Gil Mueller asked Mr. Holley to explain the city's brainstorming
sessions. Mr. Chris Holley explained that each quarter year they go through a facility report. Each
member takes a facility, looks around with no direction to staff or anything like that, but they look at
potential capital projects, the needs there, we talk to the public about their perception of the park or
our needs in terms of services and programs at that park. Obviously they took at the condition of the
facility (i.e. are they maintained properly, are the lights on the ballfield all working, etc.). It is
an excellent opportunity for the members to get out, visit a site, get a feeling of what is going on
there, and come back and discuss it as a Board. Mr. Holley commented that it gives him some additional
input, another set of eyes out there to take a look. It's not a nit-picking sort of thing, it more of a
very upbeat needs of some things that we can do to improve our services at that facility. Then they
choose a different facility each time. It also helps our budget review process to understand what we
are trying to accomplish as a Department. Mr. Gil Mueller commented that it sounded like an excellent
idea. Mr. Chris Holley continued the discussion of subjects for their future meeting. The City
adjourned at 10:54 a.m. A break was taken and the County reconvened at 11:00 a.m. to continue with
their special meeting.
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SPECIAL MEETING
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II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG:
Skipped this section this meeting.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Skipped this section this meeting.
IV. TIGERTAIL BEACH FOOD AND BEVERAGE CONCESSION:
Mr. Kevin O'Donnell updated. Proposals were received from only two vendors of the 30 proposals sent
out. These were reviewed by the Reviewing Committee with the following results: Delores Herbst Inc.,
Marco Island, proposed a monthly minimum of $900 and 22.5% of the gross. Recreational Facilities of
America, the current concessionaire, proposed a monthly minimum of $700 with 20.5% of the gross.
Delores Herbst, Inc., wishes to enhance the area at their own expense - additional decking, umbrellas,
etc. The proposed menu prices are not out of line. At the present time a background check is being
performed. If the results of this check are favorable, staff recommends awarding the Bid to Delores
Herbst Inc. Mrs. GENEVA TILL MOTIONED TO ACCEPT DELORES HERBST AS THE CONCESSIONAIRE AT TIGERTAIL
BEACH. MR. GIL MUELLER SECONDED, THE MOTION PASSED WITH A 3-0 VOTE.
V. USER FEE POLICY CHANGE:
Mr. Kevin O'Donnell updated. In order to increase revenues for the Recreation Section by $34,000 to
meet the 90/91 Budget requirements, various options were explored. The goal was to spread costs to as
many groups as possible that participate in programs, non-profit youth program player fees, and all
groups using the available facilities that were not previously charged. By increasing Adult Softball
Athletic League player fees by $5.00 an additional $8,000 would be realized. Sumner Day Camp fees could
be raised by $20 - $65 to $85 - and the fee would still be considerably less than the YMCA. User groups
of the facilities are now categorized in four groups. The recommendation is to charge all classes as
there are costs associated for room set-up, cleaning, etc. With the new community centers coming on
line soon, we are sure these meeting rooms will be utilized. Some of our program fees are higher than
the City due to lack of number of instructors available, but fees are still lower than the Y's.
Discussion took place with the consensus being that charges were not opposed if they are designed to
cover operating costs and are not just revenue enhancements. It was also agreed that adult player fees
should be raised and not the youth player fees, such as Little League. MOTION MADE BY KIM KOBZA
Q TO ACCEPT THE RECOMMENDATION BY STAFF TO INCREASE FEES, FOR FY 90/91 ONLY, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE
YOUTH PLAYER FEES, WHICH WOULD NOT BE RAISED. ADULT PLAYER FEES WOULD BE RAISED $5.00. MOTION
SECONDED, PASSED UNANIMOUSLY 3-0.
Discussion was held regarding parking/launching fees at 951 Boat Ramp and raising the fees at Caxambas.
The suggestions offered all required "out of the pocket" expenditures. This item will be placed on the
Action List for next meeting.
Mrs. Geneva Till suggested having Adult Education Programs at the Community Centers. This concept is
approved as long as the subject offered does not compete with an existing program being offered by the
Parks and Recreation Department.
Mr. Gil Mueller suggested having an alternate chairperson as the City does. This would require a policy
change and this item will be placed on the Action List. Mr. Kevin O'Donnell is to contact Sue Filson of
the BCC office regarding absenteeism of Board members and procedure for filling the same when absent
beyond the referenced number of times per the Guidelines.
VI. INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY:
• 1. DNR LETTER OF COMPLETENESS....
Mr. Kevin O'Donnell asked all PARAB members to attend a public meeting at Frank Mackle park on
11/14/90, 6:00 p.m.. This meeting will inform the public of the status of vegetation removal at
Tigertail Beach. Mr. Gil Mueller wished to go on record as complimenting Mr. Cliff Crawford on his
diplomatic procedure with Mr. Tony McNeal, during a site inspection by the State at Tigertail.
2. REVENUE GENERATED AT CAXAMBAS BOAT RAMP
Mr. Kevin O'Donnell updated.
3. ADVISORY COMMITTEE ORDINANCE
A reminder that members should only serve 2 terms on a Board unless there are exceptional
circumstances.
4. REVISED FRANK E. MACKLE JR. EXPANSION TIMETABLE
Mr. Kevin O'Donnell updated.
IC) VII. ADJOURNMENT:
Mr. Gil Mueller motioned to adjourn the meeting at 12:12 p.m.. Ms. Geneva Till seconded, passed
unanimously with a 3-0 vote.
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