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BCC Minutes 07/20/2015 S (Outstanding Invoices & Purchasing Card Transactions) BCC SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES July 20, 2015 July 20, 2015 TRANSCRIPT OF THE SPECIAL MEETING OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS Naples, Florida July 20, 2015 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 10:00 a.m. in SPECIAL SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: ACTING-CHAIRMAN: Georgia Hiller ACTING VICE-CHAIRMAN: Tom Henning Penny Taylor Tim Nance (Telephonic) Donna Fiala (Telephonic) ALSO PRESENT: Leo E. Ochs, Jr., County Manager Jeffrey Klatzkow, County Attorney Crystal Kinzel, Office of the Clerk of Courts Tim Durham, Executive Manager, Corporate Business Operations Troy Miller, Television Operations Manager Page 1 COLLIER COUNTY Board of County Commissioners Community Redevelopment Agency Board(CRAB) Airport Authority .1 1 f /, r SPECIAL MEETING AGENDA Board of County Commission Chambers Collier County Government Center 3299 Tamiami Trail East,3rd Floor Naples FL 34112 July 20,2015 10:00 AM Commissioner Tim Nance,District 5-BCC Chair Commissioner Donna Fiala,District 1-BCC Vice-Chair;CRA Chair Commissioner Georgia Hiller,District 2 -Community&Economic Development Chair Commissioner Tom Henning,District 3-PSCC Vice-Chair Commissioner Penny Taylor,District 4-TDC Chair;CRA Vice-Chair 1. Pledge of Allegiance 2. County Manager's Report A. Recommendation to approve payment of outstanding invoices and purchasing card transactions through July 15,2015 with a finding that such expenditures serve a valid public purpose. 3. Public Comments on General Topics not on the Current or Future Agenda 4. Adjourn NOTICE:All persons wishing to speak on Agenda items must register prior to presentation of the Agenda item to be addressed.All registered speakers will receive up to three(3)minutes unless the time is adjusted by the chairman. If you are a person with a disability who needs any accommodation in order to participate in this proceeding,you are entitled,at no cost to you,the provision of certain assistance.Please contact the Collier County Facilities Management Division located at 3335 East Tamiami Trail,Suite 1,Naples,Florida,34112-5356,(239)252-8380;assisted listening devices for the hearing impaired are available in the Facilities Management Division. July 20, 2015 MR. OCHS: Commissioners, good morning. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Good morning. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Good morning. MR. OCHS: It's July 20th, 10:00 am. We have both Commissioners Nance and Fiala on the line telephonically. Commissioners, the first order of business today will be to ask the three members present to make a vote to determine that extraordinary circumstances exist and allow Commissioners Nance and Fiala to attend the meeting. COMMISSIONER HILLER: So moved. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Second. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Question. Never mind. Ready. MR. OCHS: Ready to make a vote? COMMISSIONER HILLER: All in favor? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Motion carries unanimously. MR. OCHS: It's unanimous, thank you. Now, if we could begin this morning's meeting as we always do, with a brief prayer. Mr. Durham will lead. Please rise. Item #1 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE MR. DURHAM: Dear Lord, we come before you today, mindful of the terrific freedoms and blessings you've bestowed upon our country. Page 2 July 20, 2015 Lord, we mourn the loss of the Marines that were killed in Chattanooga. We pray that you'd be with our servicemen and women around the world as they fight to defend our freedoms. And we pray that you would grant us wisdom, kindness and discernment, Lord, in all that we do. Amen. (Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.) MR. OCHS: Commissioners, as a procedural matter this morning, the Board's meeting ordinance contains the following provision, and I'll read it verbatim. Call to order: At the hour appointed for the meeting, the Chair shall immediately call the Commission to order. In the physical absence of the Chairman and the Vice-Chairman, the Board members present shall elect a temporary Chairman and a temporary Vice-Chairman by majority vote, and the Chairman so elected shall then call the meeting to order and shall serve until arrival of the Chairman or Vice-Chairman. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion for Commissioner Taylor to be Chair. You can second the motion. No extra pay. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Second it. COMMISSIONER HENNING: All in favor? Aye. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Any opposed? COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Hang on a second. Can I -- point of order. County Manager, did you say that the motion can only be made by those present? MR. OCHS: Again, I'm reading from the ordinance. I'll ask your County Attorney to interpret that for me. Page 3 July 20, 2015 COMMISSIONER NANCE: Mr. Ochs, I don't -- I think that provision is -- this is Tim Nance. I think that provision is if the Chair and the Vice-Chair are actually absent and you have to conduct a meeting in their absence. I'm not sure that it pertains when we're actually, you know, participating in the meeting. I certainly would like to see another person that's physically present act as Chair conduct the meeting, because I don't think I can do it telephonically. But I'm not sure that provision pertains when everybody's actually present and participating in the meeting. I'll yield to Mr. Klatzkow on that. MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah, the purpose of the provision is physical absence. You can't be on telephone. And so it is applicable in this situation. MR. OCHS: Mr. County Attorney, I think the question, if I understood it, was can the Chair and Vice-Chair for this meeting only be elected by the three members present or can it be a vote of all five of the commissioners? COMMISSIONER HILLER: Same with the nomination. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Doesn't matter. We already voted and everybody voted. What's the deal? COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'm going to reconsider my vote, based on the opinion of the County Attorney. MR. KLATZKOW: I'm just reading it: In the physical absence of the Chairman and the Vice-Chairman, the Board members present shall elect a temporary Chair by a majority vote. All five of you are now present, so all five of you can participate in this vote would be my opinion. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Then I'm going to reconsider my vote. Because that means that the -- that means that a different motion can be made? Like any one of the commissioners attending this meeting can make a motion? Page 4 July 20, 2015 COMMISSIONER HENNING: What's the big deal here? COMMISSIONER HILLER: I don't know. I just want to know. I mean, Commissioner Nance is concerned, so I want that addressed. MR. KLATZKOW: I don't remember a vote on this. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay. COMMISSIONER HENNING: You don't remember us voting on it? MR. KLATZKOW: I don't know that you did. COMMISSIONER HILLER: You didn't know -- the question wasn't called. MR. KLATZKOW: Was the question called? COMMISSIONER HILLER: No. MR. KLATZKOW: I just don't remember. COMMISSIONER HENNING: There was a vote called. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: There was a vote. We voted. COMMISSIONER HILLER: You didn't vote. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, we did. We voted it. What's the big deal? Is this political? I mean, I'm not sure what's going on here. Do we want to waste staff time? COMMISSIONER HILLER: County Attorney, can I -- MR. KLATZKOW: You can reconsider -- COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'm reconsidering. MR. KLATZKOW: -- if you want. Make a motion to reconsider COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'm making a motion to reconsider my vote. Motion to reconsider my vote. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Second. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Then I'd like to -- what do we do now? MR. KLATZKOW: You've got to vote on it. Page 5 July 20, 2015 COMMISSIONER HENNING: We have a temporary Chair now who was already voted on, so she's conducting the meeting until -- COMMISSIONER HILLER: All right. COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- the politics gets involved in it. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: All right, so we have a motion to reconsider and a second. All those in favor? And let's do a voice vote, please. Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER HENNING: No. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Commissioner Nance? COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Commissioner Hiller? COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yes. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Commissioner Taylor, no. So it passes. All right, we're going to reconsider. COMMISSIONER NANCE: I'd like to make a motion that Commissioner Hiller chair the meeting. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I second the motion. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: All right, we have a motion on the floor and a second to have Commissioner Hiller chair the meeting. All those in favor? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Those opposed? (No response.) Page 6 July 20, 2015 COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: It carries unanimously. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm not going to reconsider that vote. I mean, this is really stupid. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. MR. KLATZKOW: Do you want a Vice Chair for this meeting? It's up to you. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I don't think it's up to us. It's up to -- COMMISSIONER HILLER: Do we need -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: What does the law say? COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- our rules. Unless we want to change the rules on the fly. MR. KLATZKOW: Your rules require a temporary Vice-Chairman, also by a majority vote. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I make a motion we have Commissioner Hiller be the Vice Chair also. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, I make a motion that Commissioner Henning is our Vice Chair. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Second. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER HENNING: What? CHAIRMAN HILLER: Your vote. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Taylor? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Nance? COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Motion carries unanimously. Page 7 July 20, 2015 Item #2A MOTION TO AMEND THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY TO INCORPORATE THE JUDGE'S ORDER INTO IT — APPROVED; PAYMENT OF OUTSTANDING INVOICES AND PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS THROUGH JULY 15, 2015 WITH A FINDING THAT SUCH EXPENDITURES SERVE A VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE — CONTINUED TO LATER IN THE MEETING MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, that takes you to the only item on today's special meeting agenda. That is Item 2.A. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I have a question on the procedures. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are we voting per the executive summary or the judge's order? Maybe that's a legal question. MR. KLATZKOW: You have an executive summary in front of you with a recommendation. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I know the recommendations, but the consideration is different than the judge's order. Are we going to define what the judge signed, the order, or do we go by it? MR. KLATZKOW: I think it would be prudent to parallel the judge's order. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay, I'll make a motion that we reflect the changes on the executive summary that's in the judge's order. And that would be that the Clerk shall provide the County Manager a list of items to be considered and the County Manager shall place these items on the agenda and the Board of Commissioners will find it's a valid public purpose. CHAIRMAN HILLER: I think the motion as presented is problematic, because it's paraphrasing the judge's orders, and I think Page 8 July 20, 2015 that's inappropriate. I think if we're going to heed what the County Attorney is recommending and that is that the judge's order be incorporated, I think what we ought to do is take the recommendation per the executive summary and as part of the motion state that it shall include the judge's orders as stated, and then attach the judge's orders to our motion. So there's no ambiguity. And furthermore, I think that in addition, before the vote it would be appropriate to have on the record from the Clerk's Office with Crystal Kinzel representing that all the expenditures that are before us today that we are approving as to valid public purpose and approving as to payment with public funds have in fact been pre-audited by the Clerk. COMMISSIONER HENNING: We have a motion on the floor, Madam Chair. COMMISSIONER HILLER: And I'm discussing your motion. COMMISSIONER FIALA: And once you're finished, I would like to ask a question also, please. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, there must be a reason that Commissioner Henning wanted to embellish upon this. And I just don't understand why. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I'll tell you. What the executive summary says is the Clerk of Court will place all approved pre-audited expenditures which the Clerk's only objection to payment is lack of specific board's approval and -- on a report to the Board of Commissioners for their approval of expenditures. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay? And the findings of such expenditures serves a valid public purpose. Now, what the judge's order states is the Clerk shall provide the County Manager a list of pre-audited expenditures and the County Page 9 July 20, 2015 Manager shall -- the County Manager will place these reports on the agenda for special commission meeting to be held as soon as practicable for the Board of Commissioners to make its findings with respect to valid public purposes and approve the expenditures. MR. OCHS: Sir, where are you reading from? COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm reading from -- starts on Page 1 of the Order of Judgment and goes to Page 2. MR. OCHS: And what specifically, sir? I'm not following. Forgive me, but -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm glad you're also questioning that, because there's got to be something that is forming there, but I don't understand what it is. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, the executive summary says the Clerk will have an agenda item, okay. It says in the second paragraph -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right, I've got it in front of me. COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- of the executive summary, it is a mutual agreement until -- the lawsuit is filed by the Clerk of Court against the County Manager, Leo Ochs and Procurement Director Joanne Markiewicz come to a conclusion. The Clerk will place all approved pre-audited expenditures for which the Clerk only objects to payment is lack of specific Board approval on a report to the County Commissioners for approval of expenditures, and make a finding of such expenditures serves a valid public purpose at the next Board meeting. Now, I'm saying that what the judge's order says -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: I've got that in front of me too. COMMISSIONER HENNING: The Clerk. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: The County Manager will place this report -- MR. OCHS: Well, Commissioners, if I may, there's two parts to Page 10 July 20, 2015 this order. There's the outstanding invoices, which is part one of the agreed order, and that in fact is what you're doing today. The County Manager is placing a list of invoices pre-audited that was provided by the Clerk. COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's the only thing that I want to reflect in the executive summary is exactly what you stated. MR. OCHS: Okay. But the second paragraph in that executive summary goes to item number two of the agreed order. And if I can take you to 2.C. It reads as follows: The Clerk places all approved pre-audited expenditures for which the Clerk's only objection is lack of specific board approval and board finding of public purpose on a report to the Board of County Commissioners, et cetera, et cetera. So this executive summary, and I apologize if it's confusing, but we were trying to indicate that not only do you have an agreement on these outstanding invoices, but you have an agreement going forward until the pendency of the lawsuit. And that's what is described -- CHAIRMAN HILLER: And in both instances it provides for the County Manager to put the items on the agenda. In one with specificity and in two, it simply provides the Clerk will provide a report to the Board. So both of them -- MR. OCHS: Again, going forward after today's meeting through the summer and the pendency of the lawsuit, that is governed by item two of the agreed order. And if you look at 2.C, it is the Clerk that places that item -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: On the -- in the absence of the Board. MR. OCHS: No, sir, even when the Board reconvenes in the fall. Just like you've always done, the Clerk will place that report -- or excuse me, place that report on a report to the Board of County Commissioners. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And what are we doing Page 11 July 20, 2015 today? COMMISSIONER NANCE: And furthermore, during the summer recess the County Manager will make that initial finding a valid public purpose and approve all expenditures subject to ratification of the Board at the first meeting following the recess. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Yes. MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER NANCE: All those items are in the agreed upon order, and I think pretty much in the executive summary. So I'm going to move approval, if-- you know, we had a motion, Commissioner Henning's motion. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Hang on a second. We have a motion, except are we all in agreement that we understand what Commissioner Henning's motion is? Because what he read is different than what we are addressing. And I think -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: What I read is -- CHAIRMAN HILLER: -- we should restate it. COMMISSIONER HENNING: What I read today is what we're doing today. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Oh, no, you only read part of it. And that's my concern, because there are, as the County Manager stated, two components to the order and we're not just approving one of the two components. That's why I think it's more appropriate if you would restate your motion to find that we are approving the attached list for payment based on a finding of valid public purpose, and that in addition to that we are also approving what the court has ordered with respect to those payments that we are approving today, as well as for the remaining pendency of this lawsuit that the parties will perform as per two. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Uh. CHAIRMAN HILLER: I think we should just incorporate the Page 12 July 20, 2015 entire order. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: If we incorporate the order, that's great. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, that's fine. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Because that's very clear. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll just make that motion. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Yeah, just make that motion. COMMISSIONER NANCE: I will second it then. MR. OCHS: Commissioners, with one noted exception that was in your executive summary. There is one expenditure that we've asked COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Oh, yes. MR. OCHS: -- for an approval on, a SHIP loan, which is not on the list, which the Clerk's Office was kind enough to help us make late last week. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Add that to the first motion. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, that's included in my first motion. MR. OCHS: Thank you. COMMISSIONER NANCE: My second, if I'm the seconder. CHAIRMAN HILLER: County Attorney, is that an acceptable motion? MR. KLATZKOW: Yes. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Will there be a shoe dropping after that? COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, there's no surprises, Commissioner Fiala. CHAIRMAN HILLER: County Manager, is that motion acceptable? MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am. Page 13 July 20, 2015 CHAIRMAN HILLER: In that case I'll call the vote. Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Taylor? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Nance? COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: And I also vote in favor. So that motion carries unanimously. MR. OCHS: Thank you, Commissioners. Item #3 PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS NOT ON THE CURRENT OR FUTURE AGENDA MR. OCHS: That takes us to item three on your agenda this morning. That's public comments on general topics not on the current or future agenda. Mr. Miller, do you have any? MR. MILLER: I have no registered public speakers at this time. MR. OCHS: Madam Chairman, an adjournment appears to be in order. CHAIRMAN HILLER: I would like to bring something up. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Adjournment? CHAIRMAN HILLER: No, I'm very disappointed that our flag hasn't been lowered to half staff What can we do about it? MR. OCHS: Commissioner, we need an order from the Governor to -- Page 14 July 20, 2015 CHAIRMAN HILLER: We actually need one from the President. MR. OCHS: And the President. COMMISSIONER HILLER: So could we direct you to write a letter and ask why that hasn't been asked, why that proclamation hasn't taken place? I mean, we have five Marines who died, we have a flag that is at full staff, and I find that unacceptable. And I think we need to do something and take a stand. And to the extent that we can ask, you know, other leaders in the community, leaders in the state, leaders across the country to join, we should get that done. MR. OCHS: I'd be happy to -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: We can do it on our own. CHAIRMAN HILLER: We can do it on our own on top of that. I mean, I'd be happy to -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Can we? CHAIRMAN HILLER: Yes, we can. We can all write individually. But I think that as a body politic we should take a stand. I think we need to make it known that this is wrong, you know. COMMISSIONER FIALA: We could lower it right now. CHAIRMAN HILLER: I don't -- can we lower the flag without a proclamation by the President in this case? MR. KLATZKOW: I don't know what your policy on flag lowering is, all right, to be blunt. If you want to direct the County Manager to lower the flag half mast, if your policies and the law requires -- or allows it, then you can make that motion and we can figure it out. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I would like to make that motion. CHAIRMAN HILLER: And I'll second that motion. And provided that it's not in contravention of any federal code, and -- MR. KLATZKOW: Or your own policy. Page 15 July 20, 2015 CHAIRMAN HILLER: Or our own policy. Then I absolutely agree that we should do that. And I think it should be for five days. COMMISSIONER FIALA: For five Marines. CHAIRMAN HILLER: For the five Marines. MR. OCHS: Are you going to make a motion -- CHAIRMAN HILLER: I'd like to make a -- well, Commissioner Fiala made the motion and I'll second it. And again, we need to be sure that we're, you know, not in contravention of any state or federal law and our own policy. And to the extent that we can, let's do so. I would think that we can. We do have a First Amendment right to express ourselves with our flags. And let me say, Commissioner Fiala, maybe one thing we could do, if for some reason the County Attorney finds that we cannot do it because it is the flag of the nation and there's a federal code that prohibits it, let's at a minimum also ask that all the flags that represent the county, because there are a number of county flags at the various government sites, be lowered to half staff. Which I'm sure we have the jurisdiction to do. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I would like to do that. I could make that part of my motion. CHAIRMAN HILLER: If you would. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Please, I will. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And the seconder agrees. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Thank you. With that, let me call the vote. Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Taylor? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Nance? Page 16 July 20, 2015 COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN HILLER: Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Thank you. MR. OCHS: That's all I have this morning, Madam Chair. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Unless there's other business for the good of the county, I'm going to — Item #2A (Continued from earlier in the meeting) PAYMENT OF OUTSTANDING INVOICES AND PURCHASING CARD TRANSACTIONS THROUGH JULY 15, 2015 WITH A FINDING THAT SUCH EXPENDITURES SERVE A VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE — MOTION TO REFLECT THE CHANGES IN THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY THAT ARE IN THE JUDGE'S ORDER; THE CLERK SHALL PROVIDE THE COUNTY MANAGER WITH A LIST OF ITEMS TO BE CONSIDERED AND THE COUNTY MANAGER SHALL PLACE THESE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA AND THE BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS SHALL FIND A VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE SHIP LOANS THAT ISN'T ON THE LIST) — APPROVED; MOTION TO APPROVE ALL INVOICES PRESENTED TO THE BOARD TODAY THAT HAVE BEEN PRE-AUDITED BY THE CLERK, APPROVE AS TO THEIR VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE AND TO EXPEND PUBLIC FUNDS TO PAY THEM, INCLUDING THE SHIP LOAN NOT ON THE LIST — APPROVED COMMISSIONER HENNING: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. We didn't approve the list. All we did was approve the -- change the executive summary. That was my motion. Page 17 July 20, 2015 CHAIRMAN HILLER: No, the -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I have questions about the list. CHAIRMAN HILLER: No, we -- what we did is we approved the recommendation in the executive summary and added to that the order. COMMISSIONER HENNING: That wasn't my motion. That wasn't my motion at all. I mean, I spent a lot of time going over this list, and I wouldn't have made a motion to approve without getting my questions answered. CHAIRMAN HILLER: County Attorney, how did you interpret the motion? Because obviously if the motion maker feels that his motion is not as we understood it to be, since he's giving us a -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's your understanding. CHAIRMAN HILLER: -- different interpretation. COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's your understanding. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Well, I think it's the second's understanding as well. Commissioner Nance, was it your understanding that we were approving the list that was attached to the agenda today? COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes. MR. KLATZKOW: Commissioners, you've got millions of dollars of unpaid vendors. I want clarity on this. There's no point walking out of this room and having a question mark as to what happened or what didn't happen. So I'd just as soon just clear this issue out. CHAIRMAN HILLER: That's fine. In that case are we going to have a second vote on basically approving again for a valid public purpose and approving for payment those vendors on the attached list that have been -- those expenditures by vendors -- I'm sorry, those vendor expenditures that have been pre-audited by the Clerk? Page 18 July 20, 2015 County Attorney? MR. KLATZKOW: I would recommend you do that, yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Okay, let's do that then. All right, Commissioner Fiala -- or is that yours? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah, but that's fine. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Sorry, I was confused. Go ahead, Commissioner Henning. Put forth your questions. COMMISSIONER HENNING: On the -- not the invoices used in the P Card, all the other ones on the larger list, are these expenditures less than $50,000? MS. PRICE: Good morning, Commissioners. Len Price for the record, Administrative Services Department Head. What you have on this list includes not only purchases under $50,000 but also those that were approved on state contracts, cooperative contracts and some of your fixed term contracts such as the engineering contract that you approved, general contractors. Contract that you approved there became some question as to whether or not the Board had individually or needed to individually approve those specific work orders under those contracts, and so they became part of this list as well. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay, the -- yeah, that came -- correct me if I'm wrong, that list, it was a ranking list. Did it provide a specific cost for each task such as an engineer or surveys? Did that include that in that RFP? MS. PRICE: When we put forward those contracts, we don't often have the full list. And so no, they're not included as part of the contract. Instead there's negotiated rates -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. So that makes sense. MS. PRICE: -- included. And then each contract specifies how work will be distributed, whether we'll go for quotes. When it comes to engineers and architects, of course that's CCNA so there's no price Page 19 July 20, 2015 quotes as part of that. We just go to the next vendor and negotiate a price. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay, well that makes sense then. If somehow we can approve, you know, engineers' hourly rate and so on and so forth, we can avoid this in the future. My second question is I don't understand what the expenditure to the Naples Zoo is for a PAD, which is -- MS. PRICE: Parks administration, I believe. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Parks administration division. What was that all about? MS. PRICE: I'm sorry, would you tell me what page? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Page 43. And it's about almost to the end. Let's see, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Eighth up. It says -- states Naples Zoo total. $5,496.75. And that was 6/3/15, date of receipt. I don't know if that's the expenditure. Date. Invoice date is 6/2/2015. MS. PRICE: Looking a the $5,496.75, from Parks and Rec visits from 6/23 to 15 -- or 6/15? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Is that the children's camps? MS. PRICE: Just a second. We're validating. I do believe it is. But I don't want to put that on the record until I -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: We don't have to wait, I mean, if you want to move on. The P cards, I've got a bunch of stuff here. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I do too. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I mean, example, Little Caesar's for $65. Wal-Mart for $30.88. Publix, $12.94. Bed, Bath and Beyond for 84.98. U.S. Nemo, which I think that's Captain Nemo, 86.84. Norman Love Confections, $10.07. Dunkin' -- I think that's, you know, Dunkin' Donut, what I could find on the store number, 23.48. Michael's Store for $65.00. Dollar Tree for $55. Michael's Store again. Pet Smart. Dollar Tree. Publix. Facebook for 139.95. Page 20 July 20, 2015 Wal-Mart. Enterprise Window Tinting, three times for the same day. MS. PRICE: Commissioners, the best that I'm going to be able to do for you is to take -- CHAIRMAN HILLER: Len, excuse me. In a moment. I'd like to make a comment. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm not done yet. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Yeah, let Commissioner Henning finish his list and then I'm going to comment, so if you don't mind holding off'til I call on you. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Wal-Mart. Snook Inn for 138.51. Wendy's. Publix. Wal-Mart. Publix. Naples Courtyard Inn. Captain Bill's Bait and Tackle. Publix. PayPal for $400. Panera Bread. Publix. Jason's Deli. Dunkin' Donuts. Jason's Deli. Panera Bread. Wal-Mart. Jason's Deli. Winn Dixie. Publix. Sirius XM Radio for 199.98. Clear Channel San Antonio, $1,500. The Inn at Fifth Avenue, $140. Party City. Publix. Publix. Publix. There's a lot of Publix. Jason Deli. Naples Cheesecake Factory. I mean, here's a restaurant in Immokalee, Roma of Havana for $651. I mean, how do I find a public purpose for that? CHAIRMAN HILLER: I would like to speak to that. And thank you for bringing all of that up. One of the things that we're doing here today is we are finding a valid public purpose and approving for payment based on the fact that all these expenditures have been pre-audited by the Clerk. Part of that pre-audit is that he is supposed to go in there and ensure that they were used in the context of government business. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is that right, Crystal? CHAIRMAN HILLER: And that's what they should have done. MS. KINZEL: No, Commissioner, let me make this perfectly clear. This is part of the issue that we have had. This Board is the determining body of valid public purpose. The Page 21 July 20, 2015 Clerk does not have any ability to make a determination or finding that these are valid public purposes without the Board's approval -- CHAIRMAN HILLER: That's not -- MS. KINZEL: -- and that's what we're looking for. CHAIRMAN HILLER: No, Crystal, your duty in the court of your pre-audit, and you might want to refer back to Alachua, is that you have to ensure that it was used -- that the goods and services provided were in fact used in the context of government business. MS. KINZEL: With the majority reliance on this Board's determination -- CHAIRMAN HILLER: Oh, no, no. MS. KINZEL: -- on that matter. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Absolutely not. MS. KINZEL: I'm not going to argue the law, Commissioner. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Oh, yes, we very much have to argue the law because this is a legal issue, and it is very clear that we cannot find a valid public purpose ahead of your staffs pre-auditing of those expenditures, and we cannot approve the expenditure of public funds and only the Board of County Commissioners can approve the expenditure of public funds before that pre-audit is conducted. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, let me ask Crystal the question then. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Go ahead. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Crystal, can you tell me, on date 6/25/15, Page 3. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: P Cards? COMMISSIONER HENNING: For P Cards, $65.00 purchase from Little Caesar's, can you tell me what was that for? MS. KINZEL: Commissioner, I could. If we go upstairs there may well be a receipt that should have an indication as to what staff had put forward the use of that item was. But that goes through Page 22 July 20, 2015 purchasing under the XI Buy and Purchasing, and we rely on the staff indication and this Board's approval of a valid public purpose for that event. COMMISSIONER HENNING: How about Bed, Bath and Beyond? Norman Love Confection? Can you really tell me Norman's Love Confection is a valid public purpose? Was spent -- taxpayers money was spent to benefit the taxpayer? COMMISSIONER NANCE: When Commissioner Henning is done, I'd like to make a comment and ask a couple of questions. CHAIRMAN HILLER: That's fine, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'd like to get my questions answered. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Sure. Crystal, you want to answer? MS. KINZEL: Commissioner, we cannot validate that, that's why we bring it to this Board to make the determination of a valid public purpose. And this list was provided outstanding this Board's approval and determination a valid public purpose, which has been what we expected previously. COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that's what Commissioner Hiller has stated over and over, that this be put on the Board's agenda to find that valid public purpose. So I'm just trying to figure out what that is. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Thank you. Commissioner Nance, before I give you the mic, if you don't mind, I'd like to say something with respect to what Commissioner Henning and what Crystal Kinzel both just said. Crystal, the Clerk has the duty to pre-audit to determine the legality of the expenditure. You have to do all reasonable testing to make a determination of legality. And mere verification with staff, if you have reason to believe Page 23 July 20, 2015 there's a problem that goes to legality, like for example if this wasn't a legal expenditure but was an illegal expenditure where someone was making a claim to be reimbursed for spending on an act that was to benefit themselves individually and not -- and was not for the benefit of the public, then it is up to you to do that test. You have to test to the degree necessary to determine legality. We -- once you have made that determination that the expense is a legal expense, we can then find as to whether or not there is a valid public purpose served. And then based on that we can decide whether or not to allow the Clerk to disburse payment. We approve payment in the end. So to your statement of finding valid public purpose, you absolutely cannot find valid public purpose. What you have to find is legality. And part of that legality is making a determination that in fact these goods and services were for government projects. MS. KINZEL: Commissioner -- CHAIRMAN HILLER: And you need to go -- you're testing -- I read your brief that you presented as part of this executive order. And for you to say that the extent of your testing to determine legality as part of the pre-audit is nothing more than making inquiry of staff, if you have reason to believe that that is not sufficient to determine legality, you need to test beyond that as part of the pre-audit. So -- MS. KINZEL: Commissioner Hiller, you continue -- CHAIRMAN HILLER: No, excuse me. To answer Commissioner Henning's question, we cannot determine valid public purpose doesn't go to answering the question as to whether or not these expenses that Commissioner Henning has identified that he has questions about, you should be able to answer whether or not those were used as part of government activity. COMMISSIONER HENNING: That isn't what I said. CHAIRMAN HILLER: That's what I have to ask, because that is Page 24 July 20, 2015 the question. Commissioner Nance? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Point of order, Madam Chair. You did not give Crystal -- CHAIRMAN HILLER: Oh, go ahead. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: -- Kinzel an opportunity to respond. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Please, go ahead, respond. Thank you. MS. KINZEL: Commissioner Hiller, the point -- this is the point that you have been espousing for several meetings now. It is contrary to what we're working through the courts. That will be determined by the courts. We have stated our position over and over regarding the Board's responsibility for validating the expenditures and determining valid public purpose and the Clerk's obligation in that regard. That's all I would like to put on the record. I understand what you continue to say. We do not believe that is correct for obvious court reasons. And, you know -- CHAIRMAN HILLER: And we'll agree to disagree. Commissioner Nance? COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, the primary purpose of the Board of County Commissioners is to make policy and make the final and ultimate approvals on the expenditures of public monies. The various and sundry purchases that were made are being made by employers -- excuse me, by employees, approved by supervisors and approved by a division manager. And each one of those people we are depending on to make a determination that they are spending the public's money for a valid public purpose and we are relying upon those people to carry that forward to us. It is impossible for the Board of County Commissioners to go down and determine exactly why somebody bought something at Wal-Mart. However, if we have employees that are not exercising Page 25 July 20, 2015 good judgment, up through the division manager, and I'm assuming, Mr. Ochs, that each one of these purchases has been signed off by the appropriate division manager, that we can make changes as appropriate. I don't think it's possible for the Clerk to make that determination. He has to rely upon some of these decision-makers as well, and that's part of the process, and it's a multi step process, it's a multi person process and it's a division of labor that has to happen in order for the county to function. So I think there are several independent issues here today. We have to pay these people. They have delivered these goods as we requested. We cannot deny them payment. We can discipline people if they're making the wrong decisions, but I think we need to approve these list of expenditures. If somebody wants to go back and dig into it and find out if people are making the right decisions, I completely endorse Commissioner Henning's concern. But that is a problem and an issue that goes back to personnel. And it's a system and we have to have a system that works, and ultimately we have to sign off on it. But I think to belabor it to this degree at this point is not anything we're going to accomplish today. So I'm going to suggest we move forward with it. And if we need to look into the process, then let's do so. And, you know, I'm sure the Clerk will support that. COMMISSIONER FIALA: May I ask a question also? CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, when anyone uses their P Card and hands in their receipt to their division manager or whomever they hand it to, do they also write on this receipt that they received say from Wal-Mart as to what they purchased with that and what that item was used for? If not, that would be another way to cut right through all of this stuff. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Would staff like to answer? MS. MARKIEWICZ: Yes. Thank you, Joanne Markiewicz, Page 26 July 20, 2015 Procurement Services Director. Commissioner Fiala, you're correct, every time a receipt is submitted there's rationale provided for that receipt. And many of the transactions that Ms. Kinzel talked about, actually the resolutions that the Board of County Commissioners have approved in the past for employee recognition, for summer programs, for a number of reasons, accompany those receipts or their comments made about those transactions in your SAP financial system. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, okay. Thank you. At least then we have a path or a tracking system to follow. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Taylor? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I think this is a very healthy discussion. And I do think that Commissioner Nance's observations are on point, as well as Commissioner Henning's. So I would like to suggest that the County Manager create for us a -- from A to Z, what happens when someone uses a P Card, what should go in place and who's signing off Because frankly the first time I saw this list the thought came to me, how do I know -- how do I know this is for public purpose? I've got invoice descriptions here, but I don't have what it's for. And clearly there are several on here that raise my eyebrows also. I want to get these vendors paid. I do not want to hold this up today. But I think in the future as we do this I need another line here on this spreadsheet that says public purpose, what the public purpose is and who's signing off on that. On all of this. Because the buck stops with us. But I'm not taking liability when I don't have in front of me who's signing off and whose name says that this is for public purpose. And if anybody wants to read the Okaloosa audit report from 2013, '15, it will take you probably two hours to read it. We can't be loosey-goosey anymore, and this is loosey-goosey to me. CHAIRMAN HILLER: And thank you for saying that. Page 27 July 20, 2015 Commissioner Nance, I would like to commend you for some of your remarks and correct one of them. The Clerk is responsible. The Clerk does have the ability in the course of his pre-audit to make a determination whether or not the goods or services acquired were in fact used as part of government activity. And if he wants to merely rely on staff and if he's satisfied with that, then he takes responsibility for that expense as a matter of law. He needs to do the level of testing necessary to make a determination that the proposed expenditure is legal. And to the extent of what you and Commissioner Taylor have said with respect to the supervisory controls and, you know, the declaration of how these purchases were made to what end, because we're talking about purchases on the side of staff, not payment on the side of staff, you know, it's up to the Clerk to develop the system of internal controls and do what's necessary to ensure that the system provides controls so purchases cannot be made that would be for other than the public's benefit. And so as to what you're describing as loosey-goosey, that's the Clerk's responsibility to make sure there's no loosey-goosey-ness in any of this. That's his job. It's all about internal controls. Whether it's supervisory review or some sort of declaration by staff that is, you know, validated by Clerk staff to whatever degree is necessary, again, that all goes to legality. So as part of this process, I think what we do need to do is ensure that the system of internal controls is adequate, and to do that we can talk to our external auditors. And with respect to, you know, procedures, I agree with Commissioner Taylor, we as the Board set those procedures as a matter of law. It is within our jurisdiction to set the procedures on the non-internal control side. And we need to develop what that procedure Page 28 July 20, 2015 is and bring that back to the Board for approval at the meeting in September, and make sure that's what's done prospectively in terms of the order of how these payments are processed. And that's all a matter of law. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Madam Chair, I'm going to suggest that we just have Mr. Ochs and Ms. Markiewicz demonstrate to us what the system is like so everybody can have comfort in what's being done and just give us some examples of how it's handled and then anybody that wants to dig any deeper in any one of them, then that's fine. Because I've been assured by the County Manager that there are multi step processes and approvals throughout the system. And, you know, I know somebody may not think it's appropriate to buy chocolate. But you know what? This is a billion dollar corporation, Collier County. It's a billion dollar active activity. You're going to have expenditures for all kinds of stuff. And I think it's just inappropriate for us to go in and try to micromanage something that the staff is doing on the fly. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second that motion. COMMISSIONER NANCE: You know, if we can determine that the whole process is flawed, I'm going to be -- it's going to take a lot more than a small list for me to come to that conclusion. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: But do you -- COMMISSIONER NANCE: I'm not going to jump to that conclusion, and I'm not going to describe something that's loosey-goosey until it's been demonstrated to me somehow that that's the case. And I don't think today's the day for that. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Commissioner Nance, as we are going to be presented with these lists ongoing until this dispute is settled, do you object to having another column in the spreadsheet that indicates what public purpose, especially with the P Cards, what is the Page 29 July 20, 2015 public purpose and who's signing off on it? COMMISSIONER NANCE: Ma'am, I don't object to it, but do you really want to require that? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Why don't you -- I don't want to require that, because I believe there's a process. But, I mean, if you -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes, sir, I would like that. That would ease my angst a little. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Well, I'm sure it would. But what's the cost of doing something like that? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: What's the cost of not doing it? COMMISSIONER NANCE: I'm unaware. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Liability. Sir, if we are approving Norman Love Chocolates as a public purpose and we do not know who on staff level signed off on that and what the public purpose is, we are approving something in the dark. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Actually, Commissioner Taylor, I'm glad you say what you're saying, because you're not. You're relying on the Clerk's pre-audit to determine legality to make a determination -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: We heard you say that. CHAIRMAN HILLER: -- that a valid public purpose is being served. Well, but it's very important because Commissioner Taylor says she's making a decision in the dark, and she's not. That is why the Clerk pre-audits. COMMISSIONER HENNING: We heard you say that. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Well, then, let's put that column there and have the Clerk sign off. I just need it here. It's what's before us. This is very, very important. This is not my money, this is taxpayers' money. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Correct. Page 30 July 20, 2015 COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And I need to be -- COMMISSIONER NANCE: I'm not going to support the Board of County Commissioners approving things at that level. I won't endorse it. That's not our job, that's not the level that we make decisions at. This is insanity in my view. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, sir, it's a lot more work, but it's not insanity. COMMISSIONER NANCE: I just think worrying about it at that level -- if you want to try to track down a billion dollar expenditure $5.00 at a time, ma'am, you better get a light hat on all night, because you're not going to be able to do it -- CHAIRMAN HILLER: That is what the Clerk is supposed to do in his pre-audit, in his determination that the expenditure is legal. If his determination that the purchase being made isn't being used in a governmental function, whether or not it serves a valid public purpose, which is a different question, which is the question that we answer, if it is being used in the process of government business, then we have to rely on the Clerk's determination that it was used as such. Whether or not the use in that government activity serves a valid public purpose will be ours to make. That is another decision to make. So I have to agree with you. We have to rely on the process that is established with the adequate level of internal controls and then -- for the Clerk's pre-audit and then for our approval. And we do that for everything, for every single expenditures from $1.00 to infinity million. You know, millions. COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- going to decide okay, fine, say for instance the tourism department bought Norman Love Chocolates because they are having a group coming in to sell on this area and that is one of the little gifts they gave by their place setting. And then the Clerk can determine if he thinks that's a public purpose or not and he can just decide on that particular day I don't think it's a public purpose. Page 31 July 20, 2015 CHAIRMAN HILLER: No, it's whether or not it's used in a governmental activity and then whether we deem it's a valid public purpose is a decision that is reserved to us. He doesn't make the decision as to whether it's a valid public purpose but he does have to make the determination that in fact it was a governmental activity. COMMISSIONER FIALA: We're making it almost impossible for our government to move forward with all of this minute minutia that we're putting together now. I mean, we have to -- we as County Commissioners have given the responsibility not only to our County Manager but then he has given that to his supervisors and managers to manage those departments, and that should have been cleared throughout all of them. If we go and approve every $5.00 and $10 expenditures all year long, we're never going to get this county functioning. And as it is, we're losing so many trusted purveyors of services to us just because of this. It's costing the taxpayers millions of dollars with all of the attorneys that are being hired and with all of the questioning and all of the -- and it's very bad publicity. And how minute do you want to get in these decision makers? We've got to have -- we've got to have responsibility taken by the County Manager and his staff also. We can't be approving every five and $10 -- MR. OCHS: Madam Chair? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: Court reporter need a break? We only have one item on the agenda and we still haven't got to it yet. MR. OCHS: Just very briefly again, just to remind the Board, what you have in front of you today is a -- and I'll read from the agreed order, is currently outstanding invoices and reimbursement requests that the Clerk has provided to the County Manager as a report for which the pre-audit is complete and for which the Clerk's only objection is a lack of specific Board approval of the contract or purchase. Page 32 July 20, 2015 So yes, we work closely with the Clerk's Office in the pre-audit phase and we'll continue to work closely and as best as we possibly can to provide all the documentation that they ask for. And I'm looking at a list here in this laptop of at least a dozen prior board resolutions that have been enacted and are still active that governs approval of expenditures for things like county training sessions, open houses, job fairs, recognition programs, employee of the month program, annual funding for the employee picnic, business travel program, employee recognition program, approval for expenditures and future awards and recognition. These are resolutions adopted by the Board that are all referenced in the backup documentation that goes with these invoices when they're submitted. So I don't want the Board to think that it's loosey-goosey, because I don't believe it is. Certainly, you know, reasonable people are going to disagree or have follow-on questions about, you know, is it in fact a government purpose or a valid purpose. We work every day with the Clerk's Office to try to make sure that they're satisfied that the invoices that we're submitting for them to pre-audit meet their pre-audit test. We do it every day, we'll continue to do it every day. But again, today you're being asked to approve a list that was handed to me by the Clerk for which everything was pre-audited and complete, save for the issue that is germane to the lawsuit. So I'm just reading off of the agreed order. Thank you. MS. KINZEL: And could I make one clarification -- COMMISSIONER NANCE: I thought that we already did that. I thought we already approved the list. Now if we didn't, will somebody please step up and tell us what we need to do to get to the agenda item that's not approved? COMMISSIONER HENNING: There needs to be a motion and a second, either two, for the general procurements and then the P Page 33 July 20, 2015 Cards, or just one motion. That's what needs to be done. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Then I'm going to make a motion that we approve the -- all invoices presented to the Board today that have been pre-audited by the Clerk, that A, we approve them as to valid public purpose, and B, that we approve them for payment with public funds. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second that motion. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Second. CHAIRMAN HILLER: I have a second from Commissioner Fiala. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Your light is on. CHAIRMAN HILLER: I see that. Go ahead, Commissioner Henning. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you. We got this list what, Thursday, Friday? MR. OCHS: Friday, sir, yes. As did I. COMMISSIONER HENNING: As you -- MR. OCHS: I apologize, I got it Thursday. COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I know this is all new, it's no mistake to anybody. However, I take my job serious. There are questions about some of these expenditures that I cannot consciously approve, okay? Because there is not enough information. It is my duty to find enough information to feel comfortable on voting on any issue. I don't care if it's land use or expenditures, any kind of legislation, I need to be satisfied. Now, if other commissioners feel differently, that's fine, but don't criticize me for doing my job. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Well, in that case I'm very concerned about what you've been doing for the last, I don't know, 14 years that you've been in office, because this is the first time you've raised questions like this. Page 34 July 20, 2015 COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, you're wrong again. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Okay, I for my part am relying on the Clerk's pre-audit of these expenditures and his finding that they are legal to make my determination. And to the extent that staff comes back in the fall and finds that there are issues and that somehow the Clerk didn't properly pre-audit and you find that an employee did something wrong, then I would call for an audit by an outside accounting firm. Because it's not within the Clerk's jurisdiction to engage in post-audits. It's strictly his jurisdiction to engage in pre- audits. So again, I'm making my decision relying on the Clerk's pre-audit for a determination of legality to approve these expenditures as presented. And so I'm going to call the question. Commissioner Henning? MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, forgive me, I'm sorry, I just wanted to make sure that in this latest round that the motion and the second includes that one outstanding item that isn't on your list, is the SHIP down payment assistance. CHAIRMAN HILLER: That includes pending invoices totaling $5,659,078.59 which is 3,154 transactions; pending P Card transactions totaling $300,517.80 and 20,000 from CDBG funds. MR. OCHS: Thank you. COMMISSIONER FIALA: The second agrees. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Thank you. So Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, I don't. I wish I could. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Taylor? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes, I said I was going to approve this. This is an agreement between the County Manager and the Clerk, a settlement to do this. I will approve it, but I do expect going forward Page 35 July 20, 2015 that we have what the public purpose is and who's signing off on it. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Nance? COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Thank you. The motion passes 4-1 with Commissioner Henning dissenting. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Question on how we proceed forward on these purchases. I have a question. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Go ahead. COMMISSIONER HENNING: A P Card is basically a credit card; is that correct? MS. PRICE: That is correct. COMMISSIONER HENNING: So how can we deny a purchase on it if we receive the goods, whether it be a county employee giving it to, you know, a spouse or anything like that? CHAIRMAN HILLER: We go after the county employee. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I mean -- CHAIRMAN HILLER: It's the County Manager's responsibility to recover it from the county employee, if the county employee stole funds by way of an improper purchase. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I mean, it still needs to be paid. Is that correct, Len? I'm not asking Commissioner Hiller. MS. PRICE: If an employee made an inappropriate purchase, it would depend on how that act took place whether or not we could contest it with the credit card company. Much like if somebody took your credit card and used it unauthorized. Beyond that there have been times when employees have used credit cards for public purposes outside of our rules and regulations and they've been disciplined for doing so. Page 36 July 20, 2015 COMMISSIONER HENNING: Question for the County Attorney, not Commissioner Hiller. In absence of the Board, the item will be approved by the County Manager. In contract law does that take weight on -- must be paid? Even though that board hasn't approved it? Say the Board doesn't approve one item, what's going to happen? MR. KLATZKOW: What's going to happen is at the end of the day if we've already paid for it we'd be hard pressed to say no. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Now, Crystal, are you going to pay these once the County Manager approves it? MS. KINZEL: That was the settlement agreement during the interim period that the County Manager would approve this and you would ratify them. Obviously that is the risk the Board would be taking under this settlement agreement. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I know what the settlement said. But it didn't explain whether the payment would be made once the County Manager approves it. MS. KINZEL: Yes, it's our understanding the payment would be made during the interim period under the County Manager's authority and ratified by the Board upon your return. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. I'm available. I'll make myself available if I have to meet. I think that's -- we have no choice but to approve it once the County Manager approves it. The ratification is not a simple process -- well, it's -- doesn't make sense why it's even on our agenda if you're going to pay it. That's all I have. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Nance, do you have any comments that you'd like to make under commissioner comments? COMMISSIONER NANCE: No, ma'am, I think it's been -- this horse has been beaten to death. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Fiala? Page 37 July 20, 2015 COMMISSIONER FIALA: Nothing more, thank you. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Commissioner Taylor? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, nothing. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Crystal, is there anything you'd like to say? MS. KINZEL: No, I think we've clarified the record as much as possible, thanks. CHAIRMAN HILLER: County Attorney? MR. KLATZKOW: Nothing, ma'am. CHAIRMAN HILLER: County Manager? MR. OCHS: Nothing from me, ma'am, thank you. CHAIRMAN HILLER: In that case I'll make a motion to adjourn. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Second. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Thank you. All in favor? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Aye. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye. CHAIRMAN HILLER: Passes unanimously. Thank you. Page 38 July 20, 2015 ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Acting-Chairman at 11:06 a.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL e,./44tc.e_ CHAIRMAN ATTEST: DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK Attest as to Chairman's signature only, These minutes approved by the Board on 9 ) c I j c, as presented or as corrected Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Court Reporting, Incorporated by Cherie' R. Nottingham, CSR. Page 39