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Section HH Section H Board Minutes Operations and Management of County’s dependent Districts December 9, 2014 December 9,2014 COMMISSIONER HILLER: That this is -- that they will be submitted jointly. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HENNING: All in favor of the motion, signiff by saying aye. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HENNING: AYE. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed? Q.Jo response.) CHAIRMAN FIENNING: Carries unanimously. MR. DORRILL: We're headed to city hall. Thank you, again, CHAIRMAN FIENNING: Our last item. MR. OCHS: I wish. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Our last item? MR. OCHS: We're getting close, sir. We have one other one under CRA after that. CHAIRMAN HENNNG: Oh. MR. OCHS: And we have a public hearing under 98. Item #1lB DIRECTION ON PROPOSED OPTIONS FOR OPERATIONS AND MANAGEMENT OF THE COLINTY'S DEPENDENT FIRE DISTRICTS - MOTION DIRECTING STAFF TO BzuNG BACK AN AGREEMENT FOR GREATER NAPLES FIRE AND RESCUE DISTzuCT TO MANAGE THE FIDDLER'S CREEK AREA _ APPROVED; MOTION DIRECTING STAFF TO ISSUE AN Page l19 December 9,2014 INFORMAL BID FOR SERVICES AND BRING BACK COMPARABLE PLANS WHILE MAINTAINING CURRENT STAFF _ APPROVED MR. OCHS: So I lB, Commissioners, is a recommendation to provide direction on proposed options for operations and management of the count5r's dependent fire districts. Ms. Price, your Administrative Services Administrator, willtake you through those options. MS. PRICE: Good aftemoon. Good afternoon. For the record, Len Price, Administrative Services Division Administrator. In September you asked me to come back to you with alternatives and options for the Isles of Capri Fire District and to include as part of those options the potential to consolidate all of our fire districts, and that is what I have done for you. In doing this, I tried to include all of the stakeholders, including the advisory boards of both of the fire districts, the citizens, and spoke to the fire districts themselves. Your Isles of Capri Fire District Advisory Board has provided their opinion that they would like to stay exactly as they are, and they're willing to pay the cost of doing so. Your Ochopee and Everglades City residents have indicated the same. The union representatives are all in favor of consolidating the four fire districts, or at least two of the four fire districts, and I think that -- CHAIRMAN HENNING: What four fire districts? MS. PRICE: Your four fire MSTUs, I'm sorry,.I misspoke. That would be Ochopee, Isles of Capri, Dishict l, and the Goodland/Horr's Island. What I've tried to provide for you is the gamut of options that are open to you. And I've divided them into, essentially, three categories. The first would be, you could call it, maintain or take no action, which Page 120 December 9,2014 would leave the MSTUs essentially as they are and would require, in some instances, to increase taxes. The second series of options would be consolidation of the county's fire MSTUs, and there's a number of ways in which that could be done. Currently your District I is partially contracted out to the Greater Naples Fire District, your Goodland MSTU is entirely contracted out to City of Marco Island and, of course, we have the two districts. There is a number of ways that we could consolidate those under a number of different scenarios. And the last category of options would include some form of outsourcing which could be done either through an interlocal agreement or, if you chose, you could go down the route of an RFP and put it out in the open market and see if other agencies and/or companies would want to do that. I did not give you a whole lot of information on any one of these because they were so wide and so varied that I wanted you to start to give me some direction as to how you wanted to take this before I did that. There are some considerations I thought you might want to take into account, things like local institutional knowledge. Everybody in all of the districts wants to ensure that they have high level of service, at least as good as what they're getting currently. There's tax rates to be taken into consideration, job stability for the folks who are working out there to include their pension benefits, their rank, their seniority, et cetera. Obviously, all of these districts need to be reserved for capital and for replacement for contingencies that come up, and there's opportunities to share resources. Fiscal impacts are as wide-ranging as the array of options are. What I've given you, just for your reference, is where we are today. Page 121 December 9,2014 Isles of Capri is at 2,2 mills; Ochopee is at 4. Please keep in mind that in the upcoming year we're going to be also assessing the loan payment that you approved a few years ago for the building of the Port of the Islands station as well as some breathing apparatus that we financed, so that will be added on top of the 4 mills in the Ochopee district. District 1 is taxed currently at 2 mills, and the Goodland/Horr's Island MSTU is at 1.2760. So that's where we are today. Depending on how you want to make any changes, some of those rates could stay the same. The Isles of Capri could go as high as 3 mills. Again, there's a wide range of what you can do, depending on the direction that you tell me that you want to take. With that, I can answer some of your questions. I believe that you've got some public speakers to consider. And at the end of the day, I am hoping that you will give me some direction, maybe one or two options that you would like to See me come back to you with more meat, with timetables, with -- you know, with all of the steps that would be involved in making those a reality. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Do you have the maps of the different districts that you're speaking about? MS. PRICE: I don't have them with me, but I could obtain that' CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, I'm familiar with it, and I think the board needs to be familiar with it before it considers District 1, and the reason is, is you have other fire departments that services, actually contracted, we provide funding for those services to the district. MS. PRICE: That is correct. CHAIRMANHENNING:Yeah'Andthatwasn'tsharedwith the board. So what happens with those, you know, agreements and sharing of the pot for covering District 1? Page 122 December 9,2014 MS. PRICE: Actually, in the options that I provided you, we could either leave that the same as it is today, or we could roll those back into the county's -- as a consolidated district. We could look at that. But I did try/ to provide both options when I did the calculations. And the calculations that I provided to you in your packet were really just for demonstration purposes to give you kind of a scope of the changes that you would see. I used today's budgets and today's taxable rates. Obviously, moving into the future, both of those are going to change. But because it was too difficult to determine how each of them would change, I thought if we just looked at what things would look like if we implemented those changes. Given today's set of circumstances, you could see a magnitude of change that we're talking about. CHAIRMAN FDNNING: What page could I find the fiscal statement if we roll District 1 into the four districts? MR. OCHS: Commissioners, this was Attachment I in your executive summary. I apologize for the small type, but there's a lot of data that we're trying to capture here. I'll ask Ms. Price to point out those areas, Commissioner Henning, that you're referencing. MS. PzuCE: Commissioners, when you look at the consolidated fire service single rate without parts of District I and Goodland, what I was trying to say there is that would be what we would have to raise as county funds assuming that we left those two contracts in place. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. I got the page. Which item? Point your finger at it again. That's where it says -- is that -- MS. PRICE: It's your second set of numbers. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. The second column. The second set of columns. MS. PRICE: Yes, the second set of columns. So up here at the top -- MR. OCHS: Just the third line down. There you go. Page 123 December 9,2O14 MS. PzuCE: District I currently at 2 mills, we receive S306,000. Of that, only 135,500 stays with the county. The rest of it is paid to -- it had been divided between the two districts. And now that they're all one, it would all go to Greater Naples. CHAIRMAN HENNING: It's not that significant of monies. Have you -- was there any thought or discussions about rolling in the dependent districts into EMS? MS. PRICE: Commissioners, we were talking -- at the time I got my direction, you were talking options for the Isles of Capri Fire District, and so as part of what I did, I did not include EMS. If that's your desire, I could certainly go back and look at some of that. Rolling EMS into the fire districts isn't as black and white as the fire districts themselves because they don't have a specific taxing amount, so we'd be looking at their -- at their budgets and how they would be funded as part of the General Fund, including with their revenue and et cetera. So it's not an apples-to-apples type of a comparison and, you know, for a number of reasons I left that off the table for right now until you gave me direction otherwise. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Was there any type of discussion through this process, merging the two dependent districts into EMS? Did you have any discussions with anybody about that? MS. PRICE: Fire unions came to visit me, and they expressed that they would be in favor of doing something like that, but, you know, beyond that, that was the only conversations that were had. CHAIRMAN HENNING: There was no studies of -- MS. PRICE: Not as of now. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Not as of when we gave the direction MS. PRICE: Correct. CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- until present? Page 124 December 9,2014 MS. PzuCE: Correct. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Public speakers? MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. We have seven registered public speakers. Your first speaker is Phil Brougham. He'll be followed by Jean Kungle. MR. BROUGIIAM: Chairman Henning, fellow commissioners, my name is Phil Brougham, and I'm a resident of Fiddler's Creek. And, as you said, many of you said this morning, anytime you talk about fire, it's very complex. It's been a long almost three years since I've been trying to accomplish a goal and objective for 280 property owners in Fiddler's Creek and that is that we wish to be served on fire and rescue services by our closest fire station which now belongs to the Greater Naples Fire Rescue District. We've gone through two informal and one formal election of the residents in Fiddler's Creek, the property owners in Fiddler's Creek. We've voted consistently in excess of 90 percent to join the Greater Naples Fire District. I'm in support of consolidation. I'm in support of either Option 2 as presented by Len this moming, or this afternoon, or Option 3, But I also want to make a comment that this issue is more complex when you talk about the independent fire districts consolidating; I understand that. You have little to no control over that except to exhibit some leadership and urge people to get together and work out their issues. With respect to the dependent fire districts, it's totally within your control. And I believe you have an opportunity to set the stage and to show leadership and to move this ball down the road with some form of consolidation of these dependent districts. I think there's economies of scales to be attained. But having said that, the local billthat is sponsored by Greater Naples Fire this week was heard by the local delegation. It passed Page 125 December 9,2014 unanimously for them to annex the 280 properties in Fiddler's Creek. That bill certainly will be approved by the legislature. I can't see how there was any obstacle against that. However, if we follow that process, the govemor will not sign that bill until July probably. You're well into budgets. Then that bill, once it's signed, has to be affirmed by the affected parties, the 280 property owners in Fiddler's Creek, at a general election. When is that? That general election is in November of 201 6, well after you've already approved the budget for Fiscal '16l17. So we're -- even though we're following the process, we're faced with a potentialthat we would not be formerly joined with Greater Naples until20l8. What I'd like to ask you to do today is to consider taking some interim action, and that is to draft an interlocal agreement with the Greater Naples Fire District to start providing fire and rescue services to the 280 properties in Fiddler's Creek. It's inevitable we're going to join them. We'd rather do it sooner than later. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jean Kungle. She'll be followed by Ron Gilbert. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Could I ask a question while Jean is coming up? Can we do something like that? Can we start the process now? I don't know if it's Jeff or Leo that answers that. MR. KLATZKOW: Well, the answer's yes. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Because it seems like what everybody wants to do. MR. KLATZKOW: You can do that. I would suggest you do that by separate executive summary so the board has full information. But, yes, you can do that. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Maybe -- could you get that in motion for me? Is it you, Jeff, that would put it in motion, or Leo? MR. OCHS: No, it's me, ma'am. If the board votes to do that, Page 126 December 9,2014 that's what we'll do. You need to understand all the implications for your remaining Isles of Capri district if you do that, because their boundaries will change and their revenue streams will change as well. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I think -- actually, you know, we've been promising Fiddler's Creek all this time, we've worked with them closely, and I know that -- I know that Isles of Capri needs the money but, you know, that isn't the reason that we should not grant them the same rights as the rest of all of Fiddler's Creek have. Everybody else is served by the Greater Naples or East Naples Fire Department, and they all pay one millage rate, and then here's 280 properties that are served by another that's farther away and pay a higher millage rate, and I don't think that that's fair at all, and I would like to start that. I would make that motion to have you put something together and start the process for me. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. There's a motion on the floor to direct staff to bring an item back. It would be a management agreement for Greater Naples Fire and Rescue to manage the remainder portion of Fiddler's Creek. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Second. CHAIRMAN HENNING: It's coming back, so there's no actual decision on this. It's not going to hurt. MR. KLATZKOW: There's a lot of information you guys need to digest, so it will be coming back. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Discussion on that particular motion? CommissionerNance? COMMISSIONER NANCE: I can't support the motion. I think that's just a little tiny interim step that's just going to make things worse. I'd like to propose something much broader than that' Everybody's afraid to talk about it; I'lltalk about it. We're nibbling around like this is some sort of a breakfast sausage or something. Page 127 December 9,2014 We're never going to get there unless somebody takes a big bite. So, I mean, I just -- I understand what Commissioner Fiala wants to do. And, look, everybody wants to make everybody happy, but we've got a situation with all these small districts where some people are paying one-fourth the tax rate as others. People are getting serviced by the fire station that's close to them that's not even supposed to be servicing them. This whole thing is insane, and it's a result of incremental growth of our community over time. It's not anybody's fault, but we find ourselves -- I think it's a very awkward dilemma' I think we need to do something a little more sweeping to get -- at least get the skunk out of the box here and get some legitimate conversations going on. I know we didn't get it in the last agenda item, but I'll make another motion. I can't support that motion. CHAIRMAN HENNING: We're going to have a little bit of discussion on this, so bear with us, please. So what would your thoughts be, Commissioner Nance, on the total package, I'm very curious, before I vote on the motion on the floor? COMMISSIONER NANCE: I would propose that we direct county staff to engage in discussions with the Greater Naples Fire and Rescue District to consider the options and the impediments to providing contract services for all these minor dependent districts. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. COMMISSIONERNANCE: Just get a discussion going on. CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I could support that' Actually, there was communications from the East Naples -- COMMISSIONER NANCE: I mean, I don't even know that they're willing to do that, but I think we ought to at least start having some conversations, and that's why, I think -- you know, I don't think we're ever going to get there unless we start talking about some Page 128 December 9,2014 specifics, some specific problems and how we might address them, and the only way we're going to have it is if we have -- let's get them all on the table, see if we can sort the deck of cards out. CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I have spoken to the district commissioners and staffing on that, and they're willing to do that. COMMISSIONERNANCE: And if it can't take place -- you know, maybe there's some reason why it shouldn't or can't take place. I don't know. But like I say, unless we start talking about it, we can apply minor interim improvements to every one of these. I promise you we can. We could go tweak each one, but then at the end of the day what have you done? You've still got, you know, all sorts of overlap, inefficiencies. I would just like to give it a shot. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Commissioner Henning, would you tell me what you just were referring to? You have spoken to the different fire commissions that he's talking about rolling all together; is that what you're saying, that they're willing to do that? CHAIRMAN FIENNING: Yes. COMMISSIONER FIALA: So Ochopee is willing to do that? CHAIRMAN HENNING: No, no, no, East -- Commissioner Nance stated I don't know if they're willing to do that, otherwise referring to East Naples, now Greater Naples. And my comeback was, well, I have spoken to them, and there is a willingness. COMMISSIONER FIALA: You mean to take in Fiddler's? CHAIRMAN HENNING: No, to manage. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, you mean to take in -- oh, okay, all ofthe others. CHAIRMAN HENNING: To manage, to manage. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay, Yeah. What we were trying to do was -- you know, we knew that this was a positive, and it might just seem like piecemeal, but at least we were going to get that taken care of so they didn't have to wait a few more years. We could just get Page 129 December 9,2014 that done. It's already been approved by our legislative delegation. They're going up to Tallahassee with us. You know, this is all something that's already set and just moving forward, and we'd like to get that done. And by making this -- you know, creating this management agreement, I know East Naples would be happy to do that; they've offered to do it, but they can't do it unless we approve it, and that's why I was trying to move it forward now. When we tackle the rest of them, it's going to be a difficult -- it's going to be a little more difficult because nobody really wants, you know, to give up their territory, I think, is the best way to put it. But this one's a slam dunk. I thought we should just move forward with it. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Who was first? Commissioner Hiller? Commissioner Taylor? I forget. I didn't see. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I thinK I was. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Go ahead. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So what I'm understanding is -- and just help me with this -- Commissioner Nance, you're on point. And let's look at the big picture but, meanwhile, we've got a small area that is concerned about their safety and the efficiency of their service. And without this motion that I seconded, that won't happen, right? COMMISSIONERNANCE: Well, let me point out one thing to you, ma'am. Any community can decide to leave their fire district and go with another fire district. You know, there are -- there are parts of the Big Corkscrew Island Fire and Rescue District that are paying almost 4 mills. They could vote tomorrow to go to North Naples and pay I mill. So I think by us entertaining all these individual neighborhoods that are trying to solve their own problem -- I think it's the Board of County Commissioners' problem to provide equity and to solve these problems. We can't let these communities be coming up with solutions. That's what Mr. Brougham's community is doing here. Page 130 December 9,2014 They're trying to fix their own solution (sic)' They're saying, we're being overtaxed and our system is inefficient' COMMISSIONER FIALA: No. Three-quarter -- no, maybe nine-tenths of their community is already in the East Naples Fire District, and for Some reason this little piece of it is carved out, and it's in Isles of Capri, and it's -- and what they're saying is, we're all in one community, we all come in and out the same gate. What we want to do is be in the same fire district, which is located right across the street from them rather than a few miles away. And so what they want to do is just be the same as the rest of their community. It's not like they're carving themselves out and becoming a part of another community. COMMISSIONERNANCE: Well, what I'm telling you is, ma'am, there are many other examples that you could have going forward. If we don't take the bull by the horns and solve some of these dangling little participles, in my view, we're going to have more neighborhoods that are going to respond in the same way. They're going to just reach out, and they're going to say, hey, what's going on? You know, I'll raise my hand. I'll go in there, and we'll take a sffaw vote, and we'll allmove in some other district. This is crazy. Until we can get our head around these small, little irregularities, which I consider these to be -- and it's not meant to be in a derogatory manner. It's just developed that way over time. It's parts of a growing community that have developed in a peculiar way. That's why you get things like Fiddler's Creek that are awkwardly split. We can resolve this by taking it as a package only in my view' I don't think we can go in and incrementally say, okay, we're going to fix this, we're going to fix this, we're going to fix this. At the end of the day, you're still not going to know what the recipe is for the chili because you've got six or seven cooks trying to make chili. Page 131 December 9,2014 COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Can't we do this in tandem? Can't we do both? Can't we pass two motions here? CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, what you could do is -- one of the recommendations is issue an RFP for management; correct,Len? MS. PRICE: It is. CHAIRMAN HENNING: So that still can be accomplished. So to answer your question, yes. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Because I think there are two very important points here. And I think -- you know, I agree with you. It's almost like spot zoningof fire districts. COMMISSIONERNANCE: No, it's exactly what it is, ma'am, and it's just -- it's awkward to everyone. It is awkward to the citizens. Believe me, it's mega awkward for the employees of these fire districts. They're always concemed about what's going on, because they have no certainty. We need to start moving to stability for everyone concemed; the citizens to get protection; the employees of these districts, they deserve some stability. The only way we're going to do it is if we start taking action in a little more comprehensive way, in my view. But that's just me. COMMISSIONER FIALA: May I just reply to that? This one's been going on for about three years now. This new idea which, by the way, I think is commendable, I don't disagree with it, but it's just starting, and that takes a while to get through; whereas, this one's at the end ofthe process. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Sure. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'd like to just finish this one off but then continue on with this next objective and see -- COMMISSIONER NANCE: That's fine. COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- how this will work to join them all together. But I don't want to punish them because they started out years ago. Page 132 December 9,2014 COMMISSIONERNANCE: Yes, ma'am. I'm not minimizing your points, and I didn't -- you know, if you misunderstood it that way, please don't take it that way. I'm not. I'm just trying to look, you know, past it to something that maybe we can get heading down the road with a little more authority here, so I can -- CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Hiller? COMMISSIONERNANCE: You know, if you want to -- if you want to go in that direction, let's see if we can craft a couple of motions here and get to everybody's comfort level. What do you think, Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, you know what, you're always so even -- level headed anyway, and I understand. That's why I have a great deal of respect for you. I appreciate that. I would like to start getting this management agreement moving forward right now so we can get them moving, but then I think the next chore is to, indeed, tackle these other things because you're going to -- it's going to be an issue right now. Nobody wants to let go of their -- their areas, I understand that. We all like where we live and where we serve and where we work, and we don't want to let go, but we can talk about that. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Hiller? COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. Two issues. The first is, I look at this schedule, and I have a yery hard time understanding the savings. The numbers don't make a lot of sense to me. Like, for example -- I mean, just taking one number, I look at -- under options, I look at Isles of Capri, first line that shows -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: We have a motion on the floor. COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- current budget at a million three, and then Isles of Capri as is, and it goes down to the bottom of the page, and it says 1.3 with a different millage. So I just -- I'm trying to understand what -- I just -- just Page 133 December 9,2014 reconciling all these numbers back and forth is a little unclear to me where the savings are and how the savings are being derived. And that leads me to my second concem, and that is if you contract out the management of these -- and we're talking about four MSTUs -- you're going to be laying off people. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Len, we're going to address the motion. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, no. I -- CHAIRMAN HENNING: And this is -- COMMISSIONER HILLER: This is a discussion on the motion' CHAIRMAN HENNING: This is not -- COMMISSIONER HILLER: I have to understand -- CHAIRMAN HENNING: This is not about the motion. COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, this is about the motion. CHAIRMAN HENNING: This is about the item on the agenda. So all in favor of the motion, signifi by saying aye' COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: AYe. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HENNING: AYE. COMMISSIONER NANCE: AYe. CHAIRMAN HENNING: OPPosed? COMMISSIONER HILLER: AYe. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries 4-l' Now, would you answer Commissioner Hiller's question, COMMISSIONER HILLER: So going back to this issue, I'm having a very hard time reconciling what you are going to be doing with personneland where the efficiencies are relative to this schedule and what exactly is going on here and what the input of the community is with respect to, you know, some sort of management plan, and also whether or not -- I'm assuming that you mean that they would fall -- when you,re talking about Distri ct l, are you talking about the county? Page 134 December 9,2014 MS. PRICE: District I is the area that's not covered by any other fire district. There is no personnel associated with District 1. It is 100 percent contracted out. Some of it is contracted out to ourselves, to Isles of Capri and to Ochopee, some is contracted out to what was formerly East Naples and Golden Gate Fire Districts. But there's no fire department associated with District l, so there's no personnel with that district. Golden -- COMMISSIONER HILLER: Are we just talking -- so who is the contract with? I mean, who -- what is District l? I mean, it's a -- it's a fiction? MR. OCHS: No, it's a geographic area primarily south of U.S. 41, and it has a few residences in there. COMMISSIONER HILLER: So what is the -- who is the management contract with? MR. OCHS: There's a service agreement between the board and what is now the Greater Naples Fire and Rescue Control District where they receive a portion ofthe annual ad valorem receipts to respond to calls that come out of Fire District l. Conversely, Ochopee and Isles of Capri also respond to calls in certain areas of District 1. So that $306,000 of revenue annually that are levied and collected in Fire District I are allocated via an interlocal agreement befween Ochopee, Isles of Capri, and the Greater Naples Fire and Rescue District. COMMISSIONER HILLER: And so what's being proposed -- what's this management plan that's being proposed? Who's managing whom? For what? And what's the impact Lakewood (sic)? MR. OCHS: Well, as I understand CommissionerNance's comments, he -- I heard him suggesting that the county take all four of their dependent districts and contract, either with a private provider or one of the existing independent districts, to manage and operate those Page 135 December 9,2014 dependent fire districts, if I'm correct, sir. COMMISSIONER NANCE: I recommended that the staff sit down with Greater Naples Fire and Rescue -- MR. OCHS: Okay, GreaterNaples, okay. COMMISSIONER NANCE: -- and see what we can do here and let some professionals get involved with this, because right now we're taking pots of money, and we're arbitrarily dividing it up and paying ourselves. lt'scrazy. MR. OCHS: Yeah, and that's one of the options. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can I ask -- COMMISSIONERNANCE: But I wanted to drop back, Mr. Chairman, if I might. I saw you shaking your head after that last motion and the like. I don't -- MR. OCHS: I'm not -- I wasn't -- I was just trying to -- COMMISSIONER NANCE: Figure out what the motion was. So could we clarifl, that, Mr. Chair? MR. OCHS: Is that to carve out the Fiddler's Creek? CHAIRMAN HENNING: Fiddler's Creek, and let the Greater Naples Fire and Rescue manage that portion of it. They actually do service, kind ol like we do with District 1, is pay them a certain portion of money to serve. MR. OCHS: Right. And the question for them will be, can they service it for one-and-a-half mills, or do they want the two mills that's currently being assessed at, CHAIRMAN I{ENNING: Yeah. The offer is one-and-a-half mills, because that's what it's going to get when it's annexed into -- MR. OCHS: Well, I agree, sir; otherwise, it defeats the purpose. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Right. Is that good enough clarification? MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Everybody agree with that? Page 136 December 9,2014 COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. CHAIRMAN HENNING: See, they agree with me. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Well, I saw everybody over there at the flat desks shaking their head, and that's not a good sign. MR. OCHS: Well, no. I know you had offered an alternative motion. COMMISSIONER NANCE: That's why it's flat, okay? MR. OCHS: Right. COMMISSIONERNANCE: No. My motion was to enter -- is to direct staff to sit down with the Greater Naples Fire and Rescue District and allow them to see if they could come up with a way to contract manage these. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Rather than we do it; let them do it, right? And then come back to us with a proposal. COMMISSIONERNANCE: Yeah. We'll sit down with them and come back with a proposal to see if we can make something that's managed in a little more organized fashion, because right now we're just dealing cards around. We've got -- the county is collecting money and giving part ofit to one group and part ofit to another group, and they're funding those groups themselves. So they're getting two checks from the county. It's like Button, Button, Who's Got the Button. I don't know how they keep it straight. We've got a whole staff of people trying to gin these numbers up and make sense out of them. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, Commissioner, that's why I asked. There's more information. You needed to see the map, and I think you would understand it; however, it's not available. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, sir. Well, I'm not trying to belittle. I'm just trying to get all the cards on one table at one time with a couple ofprofessional groups ofpeople and let them see ifthey can CHAIRMAN HENNING: We interrupted Commissioner Hiller's Page 137 December 9,2014 questioning. Are you complete, Commissioner Hiller, before we go to the speakers? COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, no, no. I really think that, you know, trying to, using Commissioner Nance's term, gin this up sitting here and making proposals to farm it out and assume that that somehow is going to achieve savings or that the terms are going to be acceptable to us or to these communities or even to whoever the service provider may be just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I don't know why we don't have a workshop on this and let these parties -- not -- and I don't mean just the dependent districts but, you know, the various districts that may provide the management service, for example, come to the table and speak, as well as the residents of those communities as to what they're thinking. I really think we need a workshop. There are just too many options and too many unanswered questions, and I think we need input from these various communities, And Fiddler's Creek is different. I think, you know, Mr. Brougham has done a very good job organizing his community, and you've been doing this for ayery long time. How many years? MR. BROUGHAM: About three years now. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. He's got the patience of a saint. But I think we need to allow these other communities to come to the table and these employees to come to the table and the unions and the various possible management entities to have a workshop to discuss this. There's just too much here to make a decision on the fly. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Let's go back to public speakers. MR. MILLER: Your next public speaker is Jean Kungle. She'll be followed by Ron Gitbert. MS. KLINGLE: Good aftemoon, Commissioners, and thank you. A lot of what I wrote down here to say -- and I'm listening to Page 138 December 9,2014 everything else. First I have to interrupt my own thing here and say that to think about a management company or another independent district to come into Ochopee to manage would absolutely make no sense whatsoever. We have some of the best management in the entire county with the Ochopee Fire District. Between the personnel, the management, the funds that are available, and the growth that we've gone in the last two years, there's nobody that's going to manage it better than Chief Allen Mclaughlin is already doing. I mean, we have guys down there that, something needs painting, they don't bid it out. They go and paint it. They do it. They don't -- you know, it doesn't fall in line with just, ['m a firefighter, and that's all I do. We have a lot of good stuff like that. Now, as far as, like, Goodland and District 1, those two districts are being managed already, so you really only have Isles of Capri and you have Ochopee. So to put all that on East Naples or the Greater Naples right now seems ludicrous to me. They have a lot on their plate right now, and to take four other entities into their mix before they know really what they're doing with the two that they already have, which are a giant two entities, it just makes no sense whatsoever. I think it would make a lot more sense to have maybe Allen, being the person that he is and how much -- how good he does manage and the guys that are around, him personnel, it would make more sense for him to try to start managing some of these other dependent districts, bring them in and make them one dependent so that when the whole county does merge all of the districts -- which we are not opposed to that at all. I would like to see the whole county be merged as one district with one mill rate. I don't think -- I think what Commissioner Nance said as far as one's paying this, one's paying that, we're all having the same services. We all need to pay the same, just like we do with the Page 139 December 9,2014 Sheriffs Department. When we call the sheriff, I'm not paying a four-mill rate to have the sheriff come to my house and someone else is paying a one-mill rate. That makes no sense' And I don't know that there's another county in the State of Florida that does things the way that Collier does. And I know it was piecemeal, it grew, but now it's time to consolidate. But I think the right steps have to be taken so that it's more seamless. And I would urge the county to look at doing the dependent districts first and then start getting all of the -- then you'Il have, like, one dependent district, and then you'll be able to keep going forward with getting all the independent districts and the dependent district all together as one. We're already managed very well. We don't need new management. And I believe that that would cost more money. And we, right now, pay the highest in the county with mill rate. And we don't want to pay more. We want to pay less, but we want to keep what we have and what -- we've worked a long time to come to where we are today in the Ochopee Fire District, really hard. And I do thank you for listening. COMMISSIONERNANCE: Thank you. One moment' Commissioner Hiller? COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah' I'd like to commend you on what you just said. What you're saying is what I had in the back of my mind and why I thought a workshop is of value. It's exactly those kind of comments and those kind of suggestions that make sense to me. Your idea of one dependent district within the county until everything else is worked out, to me, sounds like the logical interim step. But that's why a workshop is in order. But I commend you for your comments, and I agree with you' You do have very good management. And why substitute that Page 140 December 9,2014 management with some other management when you've got good people? And what you just need to do is all work together and have an intemal management team till the overall structure is decided. So thank you for your remarks, and I think you've really brought something to light that makes a lot of sense. MS. KUNGLE: Okay. I didn't read any of this, but -- COMMISSIONER NANCE: Commissioner Taylor, Commissioner Fiala, any comments or questions? (No response.) COMMISSIONERNANCE: The retum of the chair. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Are we done with public comment? MR. MILLER: No, sir. Your next public speaker is Ron Gilbert. He'll be followed by JeriNeuhaus. CHAIRMAN ffiNNING: By who? MR. MILLER: Jeri -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: Neuhaus. MR. MILLER: -- Neuhaus, I'm sorry. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Good afternoon. MR. GILBERT: Commissioners, I am a member of the Ochopee Fire Control District Advisory Board. I'm not opposed to a bonified study to determine pros and cons of a merger of any fire district. I am opposed to a politically motivated merger of any of the fire districts, Ochopee has the highest millage rate of any fire district in the county. I would like to remind the commissioners that if it was not for the Ochopee Fire Control District and a portion of District l, there would be no PILT funds. PILT funds are payment in lieu of taxes. It would certainly help our budget if we could get that PILT money for the purpose in which it was designed. That would help us balance our budget. Thankyou. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thanks for coming in. Page 141 December 9,2014 MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jeri Neuhaus. She'll be followed by Jorge Lara. MS. NEUHAUS: Good aftemoon, Commissioners. I'm Jeri Neuhaus, a Capri business and property owner and, as you know, have been actively involved with this issue for several years. While I and many others who support the idea of consolidation were disappointed in the outcome of the recent vote, our support for that consolidation should not be construed as extending to consolidation with Ochopee. At the begiruring of one of the documents that Len Price has given you, there's a statement in there that says Ochopee and Capri share unique service delivery circumstances with the mix of urban, rural, and light commercial structural protection, unique marine and coastal requirements, moderate high-rise. It goes on to say, structures in both districts are older, wood-frame construction without many of the mitigated opportunities of newer developments in urban Collier County and Naples. The attack on these fires must be aggressive and is handled, in some cases, without the benefit of municipal fire hydrants as a water source. That is simply not accurate. A, the overwhelming majority of the structures in our district, in both Fiddler's Creek, Isles of Capri, and Mainsail Drive are, in fact, concrete block stucco. We do have some wood-frame structures, but the majority of our stuff is concrete. B, our district has the tallest high-rises in all of Southern and Eastern Collier County. No way similar to Ochopee. And, C, you'd be really hard-pressed to find anywhere in our district that isn't served by water and fire hydrants. We've got a preffy good district. I only bring this to your attention because I don't want someone unfamiliar with the two separate districts to get the impression that we're so similar that it would be a no-brainer just to Page 142 December 9,2014 lump us together. We're not. Since the county and numerous fire departments may, based on today meetings, be considering some sort of consolidation with EMS down the road and at least two of the commissioners have expressed a desire to see how the latest two mergers have panned out, I would respectfully ask that the BCC refrain from making a decision that would merge two dissimilar, nonadjacent fire departments at this time and, instead, respect the desires of the Capri Fire Advisory Committee and several residents that have spoken to you-all to keep our fire department as it is for the time being and approve the requested millage rate so that we can hire our own chief who does not answer to Chief Allen Mclaughlin but, instead, answers directly to Bureau of Emergency Services. Even the chief of Ochopee agrees with my statement that we need our own chief. He has said it to me, and he has put it in writing. In closing, consolidation simply for the sake of consolidation is not in our best interests. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jorge Lara. He'll be followed by John Rogers. MR. LARA: Good afternoon, Commissioners' Jorge Lata. I represent the firefighters at Isle of Capri, Local4719 representative. I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with a lot of what Jeri says' My career started at Ochopee, and I did my first five years there until I was promoted to lieutenant at Isles of Capri. With that said, I will tell you this, that labor (sic) has met with all three unions, the EMS, the Ochopee and us, and the one thing we all agree on is that we support anything that will maintain the level of service or make it better, enhance it, and it will preserve jobs. I mean, at the end of the day, you're dealing with human beings, you're dealing with different personalities, but we all have to provide. And I think fragmenting districts at this point isn't going to help Page 143 December 9,2014 anybody. It's just going to add to the confusion. And I hear Mr. Brougham said, oh, is this a done deal? This is that. Well, that's the same thing they said about Isles of Capri, and they lost that vote. I mean, it's almost like we're trying to circumvent the democratic process. In fragmenting Isles of Capri, we're going to have to raise the millage rate, if not just give the whole thing over in a manage -- an agreement to East Naples, which seems like the buzz word right now, you know, even though there's other players in town that may be able to do it better because, apparently, they still can't even get their stuff together, East Naples. I can't tell you that I've met one East Naples firefighter that tells you he's happy with what's going on. I mean, they've got their own turmoil and they're dealing with their own issues, so why give them more now? And that's about it. Thank you. MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is John Rogers. He'lIbe followed by Paul Anderson. I-INIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's not going to make it back. John Rogers won't make it. MR. MILLER: Is Paul Anderson here? LTNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He had to leave. MR. MILLER: Then that concludes our registered speakers for this item, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN HENNING: I'm going to make a motion, and let me explain the motion. COMMISSIONERNANCE: I think we already have a motion, don't we? CHAIRMAN HENNING: NOPC. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah, we do, We have Commissioner Nance's. Page 144 December 9,2014 COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yeah, we do. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Is there a second? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Would you repeat your motion. COMMISSIONER NANCE: My motion is to direct staff to work together with the Greater Naples Fire and Rescue District to examine the opportunities and the impediments and the challenges of providing contract services for all ofour dependent districts. CHAIRMAN FDNNING: Does that include waiving our purchasing policy? COMMISSIONERNANCE: Yes, for the sake of discussion, come back -- and come back to the board with a report on what's possible. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Is there a second? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'll second' COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second it. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I was going to second, yeah' Can we have a little discussion? What does that mean when you said waiving? CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well -- and it might not even -- we might not even be able to do it under Florida law, but our purchasing policy is over a certain monetary threshold it needs to go out to bid. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Oh, okay. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. What I would like to see is, what is recommended is do the RFP, which East Naples can participate; however, I would like for the Ochopee Fire District, since it has a fire chief that is qualified to manage it, also participate in that RFP. Then we're not waiving any purchasing policy, and we're not going to have issues with Florida law, which right now I don't know because it is -- what's the total pot of money, 1.2 million? No. MS. PzuCE: Total pot would be close to $3 million' CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yeah, close to $3 million we're asking Page 145 December 9,2014 to manage. And, Jeff, do you know offhand about the Florida Statutes and -- MR. KLATZKOW: It's my understanding -- and Commissioner Nance, correct me if you're (sic) wrong -- is that you're asking the Greater Naples Fire District to take over these functions in exchange for, I guess, a certain millage rate that we're not charging? COMMISSIONER NANCE: All I'm asking staff to do is to sit down with them and discuss what it would take to do this. I'm not suggesting that we just tum it over to them without a competitive bid. I'm asking to engage them. MR. KLATZKOW: I don't think you need to competitively bid this. If you're asking Greater Naples if you'd like to take over these functions -- CHAIRMAN HENNING: To manage these functions? I think that's what he's saying. Manage them? COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes. CHAIRMAN HENNING: It's a contract. You're getting into a contract to manage -- MR. KLATZKOW: Well, we do interlocal agreements all the time, sir. We don't take interlocal agreements and bid them out. This is a local government agency, so I'm not concerned about the purchasing. Now, whether or not you can get a better deal -- COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aren't we already doing this now, to a minor extent? MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, we are doing this now to a minor extent. But if -- to get to what Commissioner Henning's saying, you may get a better deal somewhere else if you put it out. CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I'm saying we might get a better deal with our -- within our own dependent district, Ochopee, that has the infrastructure to manage it. You have Linda Swisher who we recognized this moming. You've got a fire chief. That's all I'm saying, Page 146 December 9,2014 but -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: A little competition in the short -- CHAIRMAN HENNING: You can pick and choose. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah. CHAIRMAN HENNING: I mean, then you're getting a -- then you're getting a comparable, even a contrasting comparable, because you do have -- you know, I mean, it's a wide area of management. And Chief Mclaughlin has managed Isles of Capri for quite a while. That's my thought. COMMISSIONERNANCE: This is my concern, Commissioner Henning. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. COMMISSIONER NANCE: What we find when we have a huge county is not that we have fire districts in the east that do not have great firefighters and good management. What we find is that when we have them isolated in areas of low density, they always constantly find themselves in extraordinary circumstances. They have budgetary issues, they have distance issues, and so on and so forth. It's only going to be when we combine services, as we have with EMS, that it allows us to starl gaining some efficiency of scale when the scale's big enough and when we have enough participants that we can even out the millage, treat our residents fairly and equally, although everybody understands that people are isolated and in rural areas are always supplemented by people in the urban areas. This is no secret. It's the same way with electric power. It's the same way with water. That's why we had rural electric in the United States, to be able to provide people in isolated places with electric power. It's something they could afford. Sure, they can't pay for it by themselves' But over and over and over again, what we're asking these dependent districts to do is do something that they just never will be Page 147 December 9,2014 able to do. They won't. We just saw, in consolidation between North Naples and Big Corkscrew Island, two fire districts that are extraordinarily different make an effort to consolidate. They also have two extraordinarily different millage rates. One has a millage rate of 1; the other has a millage rate of approaching 4. Collier County cannot continue to do this. We have to be able to move together to get these people all organized and working in concert. The amount of work that we have tomorrow, regardless of how we're organized, is going to be exactly the same. The jobs that need to get done are exactly the same. I know everybody's worried about their jobs, but the work is not disappearing. There is going to be some administrative efficiencies, but our operational efficiencies, if we all work together, and the taxation benefits and equity that's going to provide to our citizens is going to be extraordinary. But we have to -- but we have to start letting these conversations take place, and I don't know any other way to do that than to allow, with some methodology -- there was an earlier discussion today of having a committee. There's a -- you know, I'm proposing a situation here where we sit down and start talking about this. Until we get these cards on the table, we are not going to be able to accomplish it. We won't be able to do it a nibble at a time, incrementally, not before sea level rise takes us back to the ocean. It's going to be forever and ever and ever. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Oh, no. Now you totally lost me. COMMISSIONER NANCE: OkaY. Well -- CHAIRMAN HENNING: Let's -- anybody else on the motion? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And just -- so, Commissioner Nance, just to move things along, you wouldn't consider amending your motion to include Chairman Henning's comments about bringing Page 148 December 9,2014 Ochopee into the discussions. COMMISSIONER NANCE: I am open to any way we can get three votes to start having a conversation on greater issue' COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: OkaY. COMMISSIONER NANCE: Whatever we've got to do. If Commissioner -- I will withdraw my motion and let Commissioner Henning propose an altemative motion if he thinks he's got one that's better. CHAIRMAN HENNING: I would solicit -- direct staff to solicit bids including East Naples and Ochope€, ffiY other interest, and waive the formal committee process, do a comparable and bring it back to the board. MS. PzuCE: You're looking for an informal competitive process? CHAIRMAN HENNING: Uh-huh, MS. PRICE: And for further clarity, as far as the scope of work goes, we want to be able to preserve the jobs of our current employees? CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yes. That's -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: That's a given. CHAIRMAN HENNING: YCAh. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Am I speaking out of line? CHAIRMAN HENNING: No, you're not' lt's justthe way it is. MR. OCHS: Sir, if I may? CHAIRMAN HENNING: YES. MR. OCHS: One further point of clarification on this solicitation. Is it limited to other independent fire districts that may have an interest in Collier County, or is it open to all proposers, including private firms that do this kind of business? I don't know how broadly you want to cast the net. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, here's my thoughts on this. The board is always in favor of consolidating, and if we get somebody Page 149 December 9,2014 managing on the outside -- besides our fire departments is not conforming to the board's ongoing policy. And if I'm speaking wrong, just let me know. COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, I agree with that. I feel that we want to keep it in-house. MR. OCHS: Very good. Thank You. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Commissioner Hiller? COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. I don't see how this can be accomplished. I mean, don't we have unions at these districts -- in these districts? Wouldn't there have to be some sort of an agreement with the unions since you're already -- you already have labor agreements in place? MS. PzuCE: There are a number of ways that we could go about this and probably a lot more than even come to my mind. But, you know, contracts can be written and rewritten and changed, et cetera. We could also -- under a management agreement the managing agency might be all right starting out with having multiple contracts with the multiple agencies. I think -- I believe that what the commissioners are asking me to do is to bring them options with the obstacles that might come into play, since some of these things may not be -- you know, they may be obstacles that we can't overcome, but at least I could then come back and tell you this is what we can't do, this is what we can do, and here's maybe another way around it or -- COMMISSIONER NANCE: I think that's wonderful. COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's issue number one' Issue number two is under what legal basis are we waiving our procurement ordinance. MR. KLATZKOW: It's not a purchase. I mean, it's -- COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's not a contract for services? MR. KLATZKOW: This is outside the scope of your purchasing' Page 150 December 9,2014 We're not going out soliciting for widgets here. We're talking about a COMMISSIONER HILLER: Management services. So your personal services are not included under the purchasing ordinance? MR. KLATZKOW: Ma'am, you could get rid of your MSTUs tomorrow, for example, all right. You don't have to be in this business, all right. What you're doing is, if you want to go with the East Naples as an interlocal agreement, we do interlocal agreements allthe time. If what we want to do is form something different with Ochopee -- COMMISSIONER HILLER: They're not talking about an interlocal agreement. MR. KLATZKOW: -- that's fine. COMMISSIONER HILLER: They're talking about putting out an in -- quote, informal bid waiving our procurement standards for management services. MR. KLATZKOW: You're viewing this tfuough the prism of a purchasing thing. What I think we're trying to do is figure out what's the best option for the county here. COMMISSIONER HILLER: So we're not competitively bidding anything? I mean -- CHAIRMAN HENNING: We don't have to. COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- the discussion we had was that we were. MR. KLATZKOW: It's not a -- this is outside the scope of the purchasing ordinance. We don't bid for firemen. COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'm sorry? MR. KLATZKOW: We don't bid for EMS guys. Wejust hire them. I mean, there are certain things you don't bid for. COMMISSIONER HILLER: They're working for the county. MR. KLATZKOW: Right, but You don't -- Page l5l December 9,2014 COMMISSIONER HILLER: They're county employees' MR. KLATZKOW: -- bid for them. I mean, it's different' COMMISSIONER HILLER: But if we're -- but what we're proposing here is not an employee. We're not looking to hire an employee. MR. KLATZKOW: If what you wanted to -- COMMISSIONER HILLER: We're looking to have a contract with an entity, MR. KLATZKOW: If what you wanted was a private company to come in here, okay, and run these things and put out a solicitation for a private company, yes, you're within the purchasing ordinance. But that's not what I'm really hearing here. COMMISSIONER HILLER: So what we're saying is that this is looking to competitively bid other govemmental entities -- MR. KLATZKOW: You keep saying competitively bid. That's not what we're doing here. We're giving you proposal -- we're hoping to get a proposal from the Greater Naples and we're hoping to get a proposal from Chief Mclaughlin to come here saying -- COMMISSIONER HILLER: Only those -- MR. KLATZKOW: -- this is what we could run this for. COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- two entities? MR. KLATZKOW: That's what my understanding is. If you wanted to have something different, that's fine. COMMISSIONER HILLER: But Leo was asking about other entities. I mean, there are private entities, other fire districts. MR. OCHS: And what I heard in response was that the preference was to limit it to other independent districts that may have an interest in providing the service. COMMISSIONER HILLER: So other -- MR. OCHS: If I'm wrong, you know, I would appreciate the clarification. Page 152 December 9,2014 COMMISSIONER HILLER: So any independent district -- CHAIRMAN HENNING: We're all -- most of us are on the same page. COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- in Collier County. No, I need clarification. I think the record needs to be clarified. I think staff needs to -- MR. OCHS: And to Jeffls point, just by way of example, we have a long-standing interlocal agreement for fire service with the City of Marco Island that provides fire rescue service to Goodland and the Horr's Island area. I would imagine that the final format of this would mirror that more than, you know, a competitive proposal in a management contract. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, the other question I have is, why would putting it under the management of some other district result in efficiencies, either cost savings or a higher level of service than what you've got now? MR. OCHS: Commissioner, I don't think -- you're exactly right. I don't know that any of us have drawn that conclusion yet. Until -- COMMISSIONER HILLER: So I think -- MR. OCHS: -- we have those discussions, we don't really know if there's going to be cost savings or service enhancements. COMMISSIONER FIALA: So you're going to go out, solicit proposals, and then evaluate whether those proposals will result in savings or increased level of service all with the understanding that no employees will be fired? MS. PzuCE: Correct. MR. OCHS: Essentially what we're going to say, here's the current situation in these districts, here's the current millage rate, here's the current level of service. Please give us a proposal on whether you can provide equal or better service at or below the current cost, and we'll see what we get. Page 153 December 9,2014 COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, I would say equal service doesn't make any sense, because then you might as well maintain the status quo. MR. OCHS: Unless they can do it for less money' COMMISSIONER HILLER: Atthe same -- right. So the proposal has to be at less cost and -- or a higher levelofservice; otherwise, you've got the status quo, at which point you don't need to make the change. MR. OCHS: Well, that's -- COMMISSIONER NANCE: That's simply the process that four districts just did to get to two. That's exactly what they did. I'm not asking these folks to do anything more than those people did. They got together. They said, hey, can this work? Work on it and come back, and everybody said yes. And guess what? The public supported it. CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I think one piece is missing here. Isles of Capri doesn't have a fire chief. MR. OCHS: Correct. CHAIRMAN HENNING: And if we do nothing, at least we're going to have to make that decision in the future and, therefore, the cost will go up. MR. OCHS: Correct. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Commissioner Taylor? I apologize. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I think that this is -- I think this is a wonderful idea. I think your motion is the spirit of Commissioner Nance's motion, and I think what I'm hearing from Mrs. Price is that you understand what we're trying to do, and I hope the public does, Let's turn it over to the experts, and let's see what they come back with, and we'll get lots of information. And we're not playing fire chief here' We're going to go to the people that are boots on the ground that Page 154 December 9,2014 understand what's going on. CHAIRMAN HENNING: All in favor of the motion? COMMISSIONER HILLER: But we're opening this to all independent districts, private entities -- COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No private entities. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Only govemmental entities. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No, only independent districts. COMMISSIONER HILLER: Only independent districts. MR. OCHS: What about municipalities? Do you want to offer it to them? MS. PRICE: And our own dependent districts. COMMISSIONER HILLER: And our own dependent district to form its own management team. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And the question -- that's a good one. What about municipalities, City ofNaples -- MR. OCHS: City of Marco. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: -- City of Marco? COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, all governmental entities. MR. OCHS: I'm asking the question. I'm not -- COMMISSIONER HILLER: I think you should open it up to all governmental entities, including the individual dependent districts. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Here's the reality of it is you've got to take a look at the geographical area is -- what is possible? What is feasible? The City of Naples is not feasible. COMMISSIONER HILLER: But they just pointed out -- CHAIRMAN HENNING: EastNaples is, and so is Isle of Capri. So all in favor of the motion, signiff by saying aye' COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: AYe' COMMISSIONER FIALA: AYe. CHAIRMAN HENNING: AYC' COMMISSIONER HILLER: (No verbal response.) Page 155 December 9,2014 COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HENNING: OPPosed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries unanimously' MR. OCHS: Thank you, I think. CHAIRMAN HENNING: YCAh. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: There's lots of perspiration on the foreheads of folks out there. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Looks like it's break time, too, doesn't it? CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yeah. I think we should take a break. Well, let's take a 1O-minute break. (A brief recess was had.) MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, you have a live mike. CHAIRMAN HENNING: The next item? I think we're going back to land use. Item #9B RESOLUTION 2014-262: A SINGLE PETITION WITHIN THE 2OI4 CYCLE I OF GROWTH MANAGEMENT PLAN AMENDMENTS FOR TRANSMITTAL TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC OPPORTI.INITY FOR REVIEW AND COMMENTS RESPONSE, FOR AN AMENDMENT SPECIFIC TO THE SAN MARINO PROJECT, TRANSMITTAL HEARING - MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS (AND WCCPC RECOMMENDATIONS) AND TAKING TDR CREDITS FROM SENDING LANDS FROM MORE THAN I-MILE AND BEYOND THE URF BOLINDARY AND INCLUDING THE DENSITY INCREASE FOR 3OO TINITS _ ADOPTED Page 156