BCC Minutes 05/17/1990 WCOLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
IN THE MATTER OF: GOLDEN GATE AREA MASTER PLAN
PUBLIC WORKSHOP of May 17, 1990
Heard by the Board of County Commissioners, commenc
7~00 p.m., Wednesday, May 17 1990, in the auditorium of
Golden Gate Community Center, Golden Gate Parkway, Golden
Florida 33962
PRESENT:
Chairman Max A. Hasse
Vice-Chairman Michael J. Volpe
Commissioner Anne GoodniGht
Commissioner Butt L. Saunders
Commissioner Richard S. Shanahan
Robert E. Blanchard, Senior Planner
Ronald M. Lee, Senior Planner
Marjorie Student, Assistant County Attorney
Barbara Cacchione, Staff Representative
Reported by:
Connie S. Ports, Notary Public,
State of Florida at. LarGe.
Deputy Official Court Reporter
000 10001
RALPH G. CARROTHERS, OFFICIAL
Collier County Courthouse, Naples Florida 33962
IDENTIFIED/REGISTERED SPEAKERS:
Mr. John Cummings
Mr. George Risher
Mr. George Keller
Mr. Neno J. Spagna
Mr. Timothy Constantine
Mr. Ross McIntosh
Mr. Jim Melchore
Mr. David Ritchie
Mr. Tom Grant
Mr. Alan Moniz
Ms. Kathleen Remms
Mr. Don Pickworth
Mr. Donald C. Beacraft
RALPH G. CARROTHERS, OFFICIAL
seat.
(Whereupon, the herein matter having been duly
scheduled and announced to be held this date and
time, the following proceedings were had.)
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Seven o'clock.
Ladies and gentlemen, would you please take your
(Off the record remarks between commissioners.)
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Would you please come up here in
front and sit down.
Would everybody rise. We'll pledge the flag.
(Whereupon, the Pledge of Allegiance was recited.)
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Ladies and gentlemen, this is
basically one of the last meetings we're going to have that
is a basic workshop. I would like to set a few grounds
rules.
Incidentally, there are slips in the back. If
anybody wishes to speak on the Golden Gate Master Plan, they
should get the slip and turn it in here to the staff on the
left side of this table.
While I'm speaking in this way, I would like to
compliment our staff, Bob Blanchard and Ron Lee, who are the
senior planners with the Collier'County Planning Department.
I would also like to thank this committee that put in so
much work under the direction of the Chairman, Jim Colett&.
I would like to now name a few of these people who
served on this committee, and I will tell you that they had
twenty committee and staff meetings throughout the year
since the start of these workshops that started, I think it
was in May, '89 -- no, I'm sorry. It was October, 1988 when
we first began meeting with the staff and the committee.
The committee members are: Jim Coletta, and I wish
they would stand and just be acknowledged. Jim Coletta.
Frank DelleCave. Bruce Dilges. Phil Giofrida. George
Keller. Carol Lamb. Norm Hatcher. David Ritchie. And
Geneva Till.
We owe a great deal of thanks to these people for
contributing so much of their time to try to come up with a
workable plan for the Golden Gate Master Plan,. and I think
they have come up with a pretty good plan.
We have differed. The fact is the staff has agreed
with the committee a hundred percent all the way except for
one area, and that's open for discussion, and that will be
brought about.
We have an agenda plan today.
First, we will have a staff presentation about the
estate commercial, provisional uses, 951 commercial and
Golden Gate Parkway. Then we will have a presentation by
the committee.
Jim Coletta, I believe will do that. Will you not?
MR. COLETTA: (Nodded head in the affirmative.)
CHARIMAN HASSE: And then the Board of County
Commissioners will make whatever comments they wish or
questions they have to ask.
The public comment will follow that; and after that,
I trust we will come to a meeting of the minds and adjourn.
Who is going to speak first on the staff?
MR. BLANCHARD: Ron.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Ron Lee will lead off the
presentation by the staff.
MR. LEE: Good evening, Commissioners.
For the record my name is Ron Lee. I'm senior
planner with long range planning staff.
Our staff -- what I would like to do tonight is give
you an update on the Golden Gate Master Plan, and what I'm
going to do is try to accomplish this through providing you
some background information, outline the contents of the
plan and then detail our future plans.
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And also I would like to mention that the contents of
the plan as presented tonight will be presented to the
PlanninG Commission unless we received further direction
from the Board as a result of tonight's workshop.
Now I would like to move on to how this plan evolved
and how we Got to the stage we're at right now.
As most of you -- most of you know, county-wide
Growth ManaGement Plan was adopted in January of 1989. Due
to the unique characteristics of the Golden Gate area, the
plan committed to developinG a Master Plan specifically for
the Golden Gate area. As a result, a nine-member committee
appointed by the Board of County Commissioners began work
with the staff in October of 1988.
The committee met approximately every other week.
Work began by identifying issues and hosting informational
meetings with key personnel from utilities, environmental,
transportation and development services.
The major issues that were identified by staff are as
follows: Provisional uses, commercial in the city,
commercial in the estates, and commercial along 951.
After all the issues were identified, we went through
the alternative phase. So for each issue, we identified
various alternatives. In most cases, it was three or more
alternatives for most of the issues.
The key part for planning for a sub area such as
Golden Gate is to receive public input. To that end, staff
developed a mail out brochure which outlined all of the
issues and the alternatives. As part of that brochure, a
questionaire was included to receive feedback from all the
residents from the Golden Gate area, and these results from
the questionaire were used to finalize the alternatives.
In addition, we held two public meetings in May of
1989. One was at this Community Center and the other at the
Big Cypress elementary. After the questionaires were
received and public meeting held, the staff prepared a draft
and distributed it to the committee in August of 1989.
Staff and committee have met several times since then
and have prepared this final draft that is in front of you.
And what I would like to do right now is briefly
highlight the key points of the plan as agreed upon by the
committee and staff.
The first issue I would like to discuss is estates
commercial. And if you will look at the map, what we have
done is created what we're calling neighborhood centers
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within the estates at major intersections, and each one of
these circles is a Geographic representation of a -- twenty
acreas of a neighborhood center. And what we're proposing
within each neighborhood center is five acres of commercial
and these commercial land uses will have various development
standards to protect the residential integrity of the area,
primarily buffering and access.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Ron, may I suggest you turn the plan
the little bit so the people can Get a look at it.
MR. LEE: (Speaker did as requested.)
CHAIRMAN HASSE: That's better.
And perhaps it would be advantageous if you mentioned
the corners you're talking about when you're talking about
centers.
MR. LEE: All right. I'll Go through the
neighborhood centers that we have identified.
The first one is at Everglades and Immokalee Road.
The second one at Oil Well Road and Everglades Boulevard.
Everglades Boulevard and Golden Gate Boulevard. Wilson
Boulevard and Golden Gate Boulevard, and at Pine Ridge and
951.
This activity center right here (indicating) is only
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ten acres in size, but it is still allocated the full five
acres of commercial.
As I was stating, we have developed fairly stringent
development standards for these commercial uses to protect
the residential integrity of the surrounding areas. And we
also envision with the fifteen remaining acres in each of
these neighborhood centers to permit provisional uses.
The second point in estates commercia~ (ind~cating)
is the area identified as the Randall Boulevard Commercial
District. This is a seven-acre commercial tract, and due to
the unique geographic constraints and surrounding land uses,
we felt that this was an appropriate designation in that
area.
Commissioner, would you like to address questions on
each one of them or do you want me to go through the whole?
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Why don't you go through it and then
we can direct questions after that.
MR. LEE: The next issue I'd like to cover is
provisional uses.
This is one area where we received the most comments
and concerns. They felt there were too many, and they were
commenting on the proliferation of provisional uses in the
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neighborhoods.
What staff has done is developed a way to attempt to
control the location of these provisional uses, and we have
come up with three mechanisms to control the location of
provisional uses.
The first one is that no provisional uses will be
allowed on Santa Barbara -- excuse me -- on Airport Road
between Santa Barbara and Airport Road unless they are
bounded by a provisional use on both sides.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: On the parkway, you're speaking of.
MR. LEE: Right. On the parkway between Santa
Barbara and Airport.
The second provision is that they may be located
within a neighborhood center.
And the third mechanism is if they are -- provisional
use may be allowed next to a commercially zoned or
commercially developed area as a transition from a higher
intensity commercial to a lower intensity residential.
The next issue I would like to discuss is the 951
commercial area.
We have identified two areas along the 951 corridor
that would be appropriate for commercial land uses. The
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first one is a ten-acre tract south -- Just south of the
FP&L substation, and the second one --
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Can everybody hear?
(Indications and verbal negative
responses from the audience.)
CHAI~fu~N HASSE: It's necessary to pick it up.
MR. LEE: The first one is a ten-acre tract south of
the FP&L substation, and the second commercial tract is
Golden Gate Parkway and 951.
Again, due to the unique development patterns,
existing land uses in both of these areas, we felt that it
was appropriate for a commercial designation in both of
these spots. And once again, we have developed specific
development standards for commercial uses in each of these
areas to alleviate any concerns about commercial and close
to residential areas.
The next issue I would like to discuss is commercial
within Golden Gate City.
The current Growth Management Plan calls for growth
activity centers at key locations throughout the county.
And in Golden Gate City there is an activity center at
Coronado and Golden Gate Parkway.
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Currently that activity center is a square
configuration consisting of a hundred and sixty acres,
approximately, covering that area (indicatinG), and what we
have done is Gone in and refined the boundaries of that
activity center in recognition of existing land use patterns
and also the existing commercial in this area. We felt that
it was more appropriate that the activity center in this
area be consistent with the commercial zoning within this
area.
The next issue I'm Going to discuss is the area
that's been the most controversial and the area that staff
and the committee have discussed a Great deal, and this is
the area that is between the existing shopping center on
Golden Gate Parkway and Santa Barbara.
Staff had originally come up with a specific
recommendation, and in light of some comments and further
discussion, we felt that it may be appropriate to recognize
a second alternative. So at this point, I would like to
present two alternatives for this approximately twenty-acre
strip along Golden Gate Parkway from Santa Barbara up to the
existing shopping center.
If you could turn to page twenty-two in the plan. I
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think it's important that we discuss the specifics of this
district.
What we have is what we're calling, the first
alternatives is, the Golden Gate Parkway residential
district. And basically what we're trying to do is maintain
the residential land uses in this area; however, instead of
the small parcels that already exist, we are attempting to
aggregate the properties into two-acre PUD's, and on page
twenty-two through twenty-four are specific development
standards for the multi-family residential uses that would
be permitted along that parkway.
Specifically, what we're trying to do is limit the
nurmber of access points, provide adequate buffering, control
sinage, provide good landscaping along the parkway
consistent with what's in the median currently, and we're
trying to get a good integrated type of project along the
parkway.
The second alternative that has been discussed -- and
Bob will pass this out -- is what we're calling the Golden
Gate Parkway Professional Office Commercial District.
Essentially, the development standards for the
residential and the commercial are very much similar. The
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only difference is that it permits low intensity types of
professional office in this area, still requires a two-acre
PUD, and all of the other development standards that were
previously mentioned still apply.
While we're at this point, there are a couple
concerns that staff has with this recommendation. I would
like to point them out.
The first one is that staff conducted an analysis of
commercial needs throughout the Golden Gate area, and what
we have found is that there is sufficient commercial zoning
to accommodate the future population through the year 2000
and beyond. And secondly, we have a concern with internal
consistency with our Growth Management Plan county wide and
what we will propose for Golden Gate.
As you know, the county-wide plan encourages
concentration of commercial uses at our activity centers,
and at this commercial (indicating), if you want to call it
strip, is approximately half a mile to a mile long and is
inconsistent with the concepts that have been promoted by
the Growth Management Plan. And we have fears that DCA will
review and find this to be internally inconsistent with our
county-wide Growth Management Plan, but at this point we are
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leaving the option of these two alternatives open and we
will present, as such, at the Planning Commission and at the
Board.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS, Ron, on option number two,
how many acres are you talking about? You said one half
mile.
MR. LEE: Approximately twenty acres.
I guess right now I would like to point out the
future schedule.
The Golden Gate Master Plan will be heard before the
Planning Commission on June 29th, on a Friday, at a special
meeting with all the other plan amendments, and this will be
heard before the Board on July 25th, also as a special
meeting with all the other plan amendments.
I guess in closing, staff believes this plan is
representative of the desires of the community and provides
a balance between preserving the residential integrity of
the area while providing opportunity for support services.
Throughout the process, staff and committee have worked
conscAentiously and diligently toward a common goal to
produce a plan that is workable and will enhance the quality
of life of Golden Gate residents.
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I would be glad to entertain any questions.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Are there any questions? Do you
have any questions that you want to present to this
committee?
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Could I Just ask Ron a couple
questions?
Did the staff consider the concept of future activity
centers in the estates commercial area?
MR. LEE: Similar to what we have in the current
Growth Management Plan?
I guess the commercial designations or neighborhood
centers that we have take that into consideration, realizing
that some of those centers will not develop immediately but
are for future use, and we have not really considered, you
know, future designations or other designations for activity
centers.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: What happens -- if it's all right
with you, Commissioner Volpe, we could have a presentation
by the committee.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Fine.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Mr. Coletta, the Chairman of the
Committee, please make a presentation.
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MR. COLETTA: Thank you, Commissioner Hasse.
I want to -- first, I want to thank you for allowing
me to be a small, have a small part of this government
process. It has been a very educational experience, and
I'll guarantee you, I've gained a lot from it.
Basically what staff has come up, we are in
agreement. We have come up with these proposals over many,
many meetings. They are the result of working with various
civic groups. We have worked with all fraternal
organizations. The committee itself is a cross section of
the community and represents all of the different groups in
~tself. We have realtors, a fire chief, we have a planner
from the highway department, businessmen, retired people.
We have done considerable research, both within our
own group and outside the group, to try to meet what the
needs of this community are going to be.
We have talked to them at great lengths to them, and
wherever there has been opposition to what the main goal has
been, we have gone to the organization and talked to them.
We have gone to the individuals and talked to them. We have
had this luxury, other than -- where you people haven't,
we've been able to take one issue at a time, one person at a
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time. And it boils down to the fact that we are in
agreement with staff on just almost everything except the
parkway.
The parkway has been a very sore point for this
community for a long time. It's the entranceway to Golden
Gate and as you drive down there, the first thing you see is
housing that is substandard, it leaves a lot to be desired,
and does not speak well for our community.
We have a beautiful parkway, the greenery going down
the middle, a big welcome to the community, but on the
outside fringes of it, we have the horrible multi-family
housing. We don't want any more of this! we have our fair
share. And I think you're going to find out when you talk
to the people tonight, they're going to share this
particular viewpoint.
What we're looking at, the term strip zoning. The
word is evasive. It depends, I guess, wherever you want to
say strip zoning is and where it begins and whether it's
twenty acres or five acres or Just a corner. But this is
what our community needs.
County staff mentioned that there is sufficient
commercial already in Golden Gate. Well, I beg to differ
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with them. The business association paid $4,000.00 to have
a survey done, and we found that over fifty percent of this
area travel into Naples to do their shopping because they
say there is not sufficient shopping available in Golden
Gate.
Because of the base lacking, these people are forced
to go across the roads, causing more traffic, making for
conditions that are deplorable as far as crowding goes.
W~nat we would like to do is be able to form something for
them at their home base, right here, to keep them within the
community and meet their needs. This is another reason too
for the activity knolls out in the estates, to try to meet
their needs a little closer to home and save time on county
roads.
So I ask you that when you are considering this plan,
that you keep in mind that the citizens of Golden Gate are
strongly behind this particular plan of not residential, but
commercial along the parkway.
If anyone has any questions about the process that we
have gone through, I would be happy to answer them at this
time.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Well, we weren't going to pose any
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questions at the present time, but perhaps you could tell
the people why the people are opposed to single family or
duplexes and that sort of thing on the parkway.
Why did the committee --
MR. COLETTA: Well, if you stop and think about it,
the parkway is a four-lane highway that carries a tremendous
amount of traffic.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would want
to live on a highway like that. If you have children, there
is a real danger there.
If you're a landlord, because of the conditions that
exist, you can't get a rent that would be enough to sustain
your property, so a lot of them run down for this reason.
That's the basis for the whole thing. It's Just --
it's not something that is compatible with the area that
it's in.
The only thin9 that will really work on the parkway
is a limited amount of commercial, something that would have
the right kind of greenery around it, the right size, right
kind o£ access to it, that will fit in into the present
highway, and I don't see where it would present some
problem.
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Staff itself has some proposals, and possibly we can
Het them to show you toniHht, of what commercial would look
like as far as access from the parkway.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Thank you.
MR. COLETTA~ Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Ron, is there anything else you have
to say in response to that?
MR. LEE: I failed to recognize this drawing that we
have compiled from planning staff. And this is what we
envision one of these two-acre PUD's to look like if those
standards are implemented.
What you're looking at is approximately two acres.
You could fit three buildings on there, meet all your
parking requirements, only have one driveway. You have
shared parking, good landscaping along the perimeter, and
you would also control sinage.
I think this is what we're trying to envision for the
parkway; and whether it be residential or commercial, this
is -- still would be a fairly representative drawing of what
you would see along the parkway, and it's within -- I Just
want to point this out to everybody.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: That would indicate either
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commercial, residential, whatever way you want to go?
MR. LEE: Right. The only difference would be the
type of land uses that would be permitted. Ail the other
land development standards would be the same.
CHAIRMAN HASSE= Does the Commission have anything
they would like to say? Questions?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERSI Yes, sir.
Mr. Lee, a couple questions on the Golden Gate City
commercial, the second alternative, of the professional
office district.
In your list of uses, Just a question about the
limitation on those. Assuming that we agree that this is
the type of district that we want to establish, what would
be the problem with some limited retail and also restaurants
and cafes and things of that nature?
There is nothing in here that would provide for that.
MR. LEE: I guess this was per direction of the
committee. They were looking for more of a professional
office type development along the parkway; and also one of
the considerations in allowing commercial on the parkway is
the amount of traffic that would be generated, and these
types of professional offices would be much lower traffic
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generator than your typical retail and restaurant type of
uses, and that was also a consideration.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right.
In reference to financial institutions, you have an
exclusion of drive-away facilities. What would be the
rationale for that?
MR. LEE~ Along the same lines. Drive-in type
facilities tend to generate two to three times the amount of
traffic a standard bank would generate.
So all of those types of use limitations relate back
to traffic generation concerns.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: And in reference to access to
the projects exclusively via the Golden Gate Parkway, if you
have potential access off of side road, off one of the
streets that lead into the Golden Gate Parkway, would it not
be advisable to have some access there also?
MR. LEEz I think the access requirements that are
now in the subdivision ordinance would preclude that, the
distance from the intersection.
And we also discussed having access off the back
alleyway, but we discovered that there is a FP&L easement
and it would be quite a process to get that easement removed
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and allow access off the back. So we felt that it would be
the best approach Just to allow the access and provide
accelleration and decelleration lanes and control all your
traffic movements at one focal point, and that would
facilitate traffic movement and relieve some of our
concerns.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: If things could be worked out
on the FP&L, on their easement, would staff then consider
the advisability of access along the alleyway?
MR. LEE: And the second concern is the setback from
the roads.
It would not -- you would not be able to fit the
buildings in if you put a road in. Because the dimensions
the lot are only a hundred and twenty-five feet deep, we
have a lot of constraints to work with.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: All right.
There are some communities -- and Ron, I don't know
if you're familiar with any of these or not. But there are
some communities that have a general architectural theme
that was established very early in the development of those
communities. So you drive into them and there is a uniform
theme along the entire roadway, and it seems to me that this
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may be a situation where that opportunity may exist.
And I donCt know if the committee gave any thought to
not Just simply your development restrictions, which I
think are fine, but also perhaps the development of some
type of an architectural review committee with certain
parameters so that there would be some unique theme to the
project that would front the parkway.
Is that -- have you given any thought to that or is
that somethin~ that you might want to look at?
MR. LEE: That issue has not been explored.
Would you like to see something Just for the Golden
Gate area?
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Let me give you an example,
and this is not necessarily one to copy, but over in the Ft.
Lauderdale area there is a small city that you approach as
you approach from the west.
I can't think of the name of the city, but they have
developed a western theme for the city, and all the
buildings have the western --
COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Davie.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Davie. Ail the buildings --
it's been a long time since I've been there, but all the
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buildings have a western theme, and it's unique and it's
kind of interestinG.
I am not suGGestinG a western theme for Golden Gate,
but there may be some architectural theme that might be
appropriate, and I would suggest to the Golden Gate
Committee and to our staff that if we do look at this
office, professional office community cor~nercial district
that now we have an opportunity.
If we want to develop some kind of a theme for that
in an architectural review committee, we can do that now.
It has been done in other places.
Secondly, I think the uses -- I understand your
situation in dealing with traffic, but just to Give you an
examples If you have twenty acres of office space and real
estate offices and things of that nature, at noon when all
of those people decide they want to Go someplace for lunch,
they're Going to be on the roads anyway. So I think it
would be nice to blend in very nicely to have some other
uses.
I think the list of uses is too restrictive. If you
understand that there is some architectural theme or some
strict development standards.
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So I would like to -- I think the idea of this
commercial area is a good one, and I would like to see some
further refinement of perhaps those two concepts.
And I guess as just a closing comment, and then I
will turn the mike over to Mike.
The -- we're in a -- kind of in a situation here in
Golden Gate that the community really is emerging. There
are obviously a lot of people living here, but we are just
beginning to see a rapid increase in population in Golden
Gate.
Most communities do have a main thoroughfare. The
City of Naples certainly has one. Perhaps 41 might be the
main thoroughfare through Collier County perhaps at this
time, but there is a main thoroughfare through most
communities, and it seems to me that commercial on this main
thoroughfare through Golden Gate would be appropriate.
I would certainly like to see us develop it into
something that's unique and nice and make people want to
come to Golden Gate to have their offices and perhaps even
to have lunch at these restaurants.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HASSE= Thank you.
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Commissioner Saunders, I might mention that the
chairman of your commission, maybe just last night, was
talking to you about how effectively you all -- and I think
Review Board, and I think it's not at all, not impossible
for us to do it.
I have spoken to the county manager about it and we
have talked about handing it up to the commission, and I
think it's an excellent idea, not only for here, but for all
over.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ I'm sorry, Commissioner
Hasse, perhaps -- we were advised that that may not be
legally permissible?
CHAIRMAN HASSE: No, no. I said I think it's an
excellent idea.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: And not only that, but I'm not
talking only Golden Gate at this time, but in the entire
county, because that would eliminate some of the highway
parcels that we have around.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think the one thing that we
would have to be very careful about in establishing some
type of architectural review is that we cannot delegate
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zoning and approval authority to a citizen committee. It
has to be handled at staff level.
Citizens committee perhaps could develop standards~
the actual approval would have to go through the county.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Advisory is what I was thinking of.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ That's as far as I think it
could go.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: But nevertheless, I think it's a
good idea. Many communities that I know of have this kind
of a citizen committee that assists the Commission in
looking at and focusing staff.
Commissioner Volpe.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Mr. Lee, how many individual
parcels are included in that parcel that we're talking about
along Golden Gate Parkway?
MR. LEEs It's be~n a while sincs I've handled that.
MR. BLANCHARD: Eighty.
MR. LEE: Somebody said eighty.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE:
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
MR. KELLER~
Fifty-four, fifty-six.
Fifty-six?
No. EiGhty.
Eighty, I think.
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VICE-CHAIRMANVOLPE~ Okay. Within that twenty
acres, have we calculated how many square feet of commercial
can be developed?
MR. LEE= We used a typical figure of ten thousand
square feet per acre.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: So that's two hundred thousand; is
that correct?
MR. LEE: Right.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Two hundred thousand square
feet commercial.
Are there plans for the future six laning of Golden
Gate Parkway, and if so, when?
MR. LEE= I'm not familiar with that. I don't think
there is enough right-of-way in there to six lane it.
The lots right now are a hundred and twenty-five feet
deep. If you expand that to six lanes, you would be taking
up too much of the residential.
MR. BLANCHARD: It's not in the work program. There
is no plan at this time to six lane.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE:
ten-year program?
MR. BLANCHARD: Five.
Are we talking about five or
31
VICE-CHAIRMANVOLPE:
You don't know about --
MR. BLANCHARD: I don't know about that.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay.
Was there any consideration given to perhaps retiring
this property with the thought of having a passive park in
this area?
MR. LEE~ We had considered the thought of a linear
park, and we contacted the Parks Department and Kevfn
° O'Donnell's office, and what -- now they're into the
regional park mode and they're Getting away from the
neighborhood park concept. ;{nd we discussed it with them,
and they rejected. They took that idea to the Park Board,
and they rejected the idea as well.
So that idea was explored as an outright purchase.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Oh, I'm not talking about an
actively recreational area. I'm talking about passive
park. And as Commissioner Saunders commented, this is the
Gateway to Golden Gate.
MR. LEE: That's what we were talking about, a linear
passive type of park that the county would purchase, but
actually we had no interest in that at all from the Parks
Department. And also the expense of the property was a
32
consideration in that.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Well, the expense will go up if
it's designated on the future land use map as commercial,
won't it?
MR. LEE: Correct.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I had asked before about any
consideration being given to some of the activity centers
that you have designated in the estates area as being
designated future activity centers.
MR. LEE: Rather than permanent and current right
now?
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: We have done that within our
Growth Management Plan in future land use map, and I think
we have recognized that there would be some that would be
appropriate for commercial development but would be out in
the future.
MR. LEE: Let me give you an example. I guess what
you're suggesting is some of these activity centers or
neig]~orhood centers may be premature and we should
reevaluate their status.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I'm really not suggesting. I'm
Just asking through the process whether there was some
33
discussion.
If we're talking about internal consistency -- I
don't think this is really a consistency issue, hut it seems
to me that by designating these area as activity centers,
there is a recognition on our part that it would he
appropriate sometime to develop things commercially, and it
may not be appropriate today.
MR. LEE: I guess I have a hard time finding a
mechanism that would automatically put that into effect like
we now have where if Vanderhilt Beach Road gets extended
then it becomes an activity center.
We're trying to work on what type of mechanism you
would use to upgrade the status, and we thought about
population, but then it got a little complicated. $o we
thought it would he best to approach this, to designate it,
and let the future take care o£ itsel£.
VICE-CHAIRMANVOLPE: Within those activity centers,
you said that there would be the full range of commercial
uses on five acres.
MR. LEE: I believe the plan allows C1 through C3,
not the full range.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I thought you said the full
00 £ 0033
34
range. But you're saying C1 through C37
MR. LEE: If I did, it was a mistake.
through C3.
acres.
It was C1
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Just a couple more questions.
The provisional uses within the remaining fifteen
MR. LEE: Right.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: What type of provisional uses?
Within the C1, C3 districts, then?
MR. LEE: All the provisional uses that are currently
allowed in the estates. Churches, child care, nursing
homes. All those provisional uses that are currently
a/lowed within the estates district would be directed
towards these neighbor centers.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay.
MR. LEE: And then we also would be allowed
residential uses as well.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: So is the concept, then,
essentially the same as what we have in our future land use
map that we will have mixed uses --
MR. LEE: Correct.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE:
Within the activity centers?
35
MR. ~EE: Uh-huh.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Densities. In certain of these
areas as provisional uses, we've got a density of twenty-six
units per acre on some of your adult congregate care
facilities, group homes and some of the others. I think one
of the discussions that we have had, you know, relates to
density.
That -- it seems to me, that's fairly intense.
MR. LEE: Yeah. We looked at that, and the main
consideration in density is the amount of traffic that is
generated. And when you look at ACLF's, trip generation is
not equivalent to twenty-six typical dwelling units. It's
quite -- I'd say it's probably about a tenth of that.
So we felt that the trip generation would Justify
that amount of intensity.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: In any other area of our
community, what would I have to do to get twenty-six units
an acre?
MR. LEE: Currently, the plan allows for twenty-six
units per acre for ACLF's right now. So that's consistent
with the county-wide plan.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE:
Other than ACLF, is it
36
consistent?
M~. BLANCHARD: Ne have a maximum o£ sixty
residential dwelling units per acre in urban area o£ the
county. So ACLF's are permitted higher, mainly because of
traffic impacts. And we address motels and hotels as
transient, which we allow higher density also.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Ail right.
The only other question that I had related to the
provisional uses. And I understood you to say that one o£
the controls that would he put in place would he that there
would be no provisional uses from Santa Barbara along Golden
Gate Parkway to Airport Road.
MR. LEE: Corect.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Unless there was a provisional
use on either side?
MR. LEE: Correct.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: So are we talking about estate
size lots for residential development?
MR. LEE: Right. All of that property along Golden
Gate Parkway is zoned estates. And we felt and there was a
pretty strong comment that they didn't want any more
provisional uses along the parkway, and we felt that this
37
was a way to control that.
Unless you had provisional use on either side, it
seemed that that would be appropriate. And given the size
of the estates lots, if you're already next to a provisional
use, you would have sufficient space to create a buffer.
VICE-CHAIRMANVOLPE:
quarter acres?
MR. LEE:
and a quarter.
yOU.
Those lots are two and a
Typically. Some are smaller. Maybe one
Some of the lots are.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS~ Ron, I may have misunderstood
On the provisional uses, I thought you said
originally that you could not get provisional use on the
parkway unless you were bordered on both sides.
MR. LEE: Correct. On both sides.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: You mentioned either side
Just then. So it is both sides?
MR. LEE: I meant to say you have to have it on both
sides.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: I guess I've Just --
considering if what we have said is that residential
development along Golden Gate Parkway is inappropriate
00 C10037
38
within the City of Golden Gate for the reasons that Mr.
Coletta mentioned, in terms of traffic, major highway, the
thought process is with the size of the lot here -- and I
understand, you know, the idea of not having those types of
provisional uses.
I'm Just wondering if there is anything that would
prevent those lots from being subdivided. You know, we
can subdivide those acre lots into two, and you could end
with a --
MR. LEEs (No verbal response; indicating.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. So they're limited to
the acre size lot?
MR. LEE: Those lots can no longer be subdivided
further than they currently are.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay. So you end up with
good-size lots on that area.
MR. LEE: Most of those lots are six hundred and
sixty feet deep, and so we feel they could be set back from
the roadway a sufficient distance.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Those are all the questions I
have.
MR. COLETTA: Thank you, Commissioner.
00 [[0058
39
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Commissioner Volpe.
Speaking on that, the intensity of the provisional
uses at the present time on the parkway to the west of Santa
Barbara Boulevard is very intense at the present time and
I'm not really -- I don't think it's conducive to add any
more to that, unless there was a lot with two provisional
uses with one in between or something like that.
But I still think it's intense enough, what we have
there, and I like the idea of the lower key of a provisional
use next to a commercial area on these knolls that you have
out in the estates or any other place in the Golden Gate
area.
That sort of buffers the residential area that is
adjacent to it, so I think it's a good idea and makes good
sense here.
Commissioner Goodnight.
COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: On the ACLF's. This plan
does comply with state law, because you know there was a law
that was passed last year about ACLF's and they couldn't
have provisional uses if there was so many in the house, I
think six or seven or nine or something like that, a~ long
as it's a residential area.
4O
So you need to make sure that this complies with the
state law on that. All right?
MS. STUDENT: Yes, Commissioner Goodnight. I haven't
looked at that. I am aware that there is a state law on
ACLF's. I haven't looked at it recently, so I can't quote
chapter and verse what it says, but we will definitely make
sure that it complies.
MR. KELLER: What's an ACLF?
COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: Adult Congregate Living
Facility.
My next question is that, the proposal that Burr was
talking about.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS:
COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT:
That Mike was talking about.
It's really not a question.
It's Just a statement. The commercial area along Golden
Gate Parkway. I concur with Burr, and I would very much
like to see a restaurant or small type restaurant that would
meet in with the criteria.
I could envision an outdoor type with umbrellas to
where they could come in and have soup and sandwich during
lunch, and it would be very nice during certain times of the
year.
oOOC[OO.,IO
41
Right now it's getting a little hot, but I think that
would be something that needs to be added.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Commissioner Shenahan?
COMMISSIONER SHENAHAN: No questions at this time.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: I think what Commissioner Goodnight
mentioned might be something to look at in any sense of the
word. As you're eating out there, you can feed the
mosquitoes of course.
At the same time, it's an excellent idea to give a
little thought towards that.
Are there any other questions from the Commissioner?
W~ly don't we -- how many slips do you have up there,
Mr. Blanchard?
MR. BLANCHARD:
CHAIRMAN HASSE:
About five or six.
All right. Why don't we let the
people put some questions to the staff now.
What's the first name?
MR. BLANCHARD: John Cummings.
MR. CUMMINGS.. I would like to pass.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: John Cummings.
MR. CUMMINGS: I would like to pass for a minute.
All right, I'll come up. Do you want me to come up
42
there?
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Please.
M~. CUMMINGS: My name is John Cummings. I'm a
resident of Golden Gate and lived in the estates for about
twelve years and I attended most of the committee meetings
with the steering committee and I want tO compliment them
generally on the work that they did. They put in a lot of
time and effort.
I have some questions for commissioners or the staff
as to what effect the groundwater protection ordinance is
Golden Gate to have on these sites you have out here?
I understand that there will be no possibility of any
of those sites or the ones on Everglades, anyway, having
underground fuel tanks and constraints also as far as sewage
plants or whatever.
And I would like to under -- an answer from you on
what the real feasibility of developing any or all of
those.
I understand that the way those things are going to
be drawn up that it will prohibit any realistic commercial
development in any of these three here (indicating).
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Each one of those is comprised of
43
what is it, how many acres?
MR. BLANCHARD: Twenty.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Twenty acres, that's five on each
corner, and the feasibility of them going in or when they
can go in, I imagine the demand will be the answer to that.
As far as the --
MR. CUMMINGS: I mean as far as them being able to
meet the constraints of the groundwater protection ordinance
that you all are supposed to have in by October.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: He's talking about the well
field protection.
MR. CUMMINGS: Really, those are in close proximity
to the well fields.
MR. BLANCHARD: Margte can could expound on that.
Because it's a -- goes to outside legal review and
determination.
MS. STUDENT: Well field protection ordinance is to
limit certain types of uses that will have a severe impact
of potential impurity on the aquifers.
So there would be certain types of uses that may be
prohibited, but they also draw zones around the well heads,
and with different limitations in different zones --
00 C1004
44
obviously with the most intense limitations being directly
adjacent to the well head -- with the size of the lots.
And I believe the first zone around the well head,
the way it's proposed right now, is about a hundred feet in
diameter that there would still be adequate space for what
we see as the type of development that would occur in these
neighborhood centers.
So in partial answer, it will restrict the types of
uses, but it's solely dependent on the type of impacts that
those would have on the aquifers and the well.
MR. CUM~4INGS: Thank you very much.
The other question that I have is I think there is a
disagreement with the staff on the adequacy of certain types
of commercial areas in the Golden Gate area. I think there
should be more places.
I know that I have many, many friends that can't find
a place to park their trucks that is legal. They can't find
a place that they can run a small business that requires
some kind of fabrication of screen enclosures or things like
that without going all the way over to -- I talked to one
man who lives in the estates. Most of his work is in the
estates. He has to go all the way over to the V and -- C
¸,0.
45
and J park to fabricate, and then he has to haul it all the
way back out here to put it up because there is no place in
the Golden Gate area where he can do that legally.
And I think they need more property that is zoned so
that these types of things can be done.
CHAIRMAN HASSE~ I think you're going to find that
there is a commercial zone off 951, off to the east.
Would you like to speak to that Mr. Blanchard.
MR. BLANCHARD: City Gate was recently approved as a
commercial entity. Just north of 951. And the Growth
Management Plan also has some provision for the expansion of
the existing industrial districts in the immediate perimeter
around there.
So I believe that in that case, you have to go
through a plan amendment, but the potential is there for I
think adequate industrial space for this type of use. It's
Just -- it's not located in the estates, but it is located
adjacent to the area and certainly a lot closer than when
you have to drive to C and J.
MR. CUMMINGS: Right.
for right now.
Thank you.
Well, that's about all I have
46
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Thank you.
Who is next Mr. Blanchard?
MR. BLANCHARD: George Risher.
MR. RISHER: You answered all the questions I had.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Good. Next?
MR. BLANCHARD: George Keller.
MR. KELLER: I wanted to thank each man of the
committee for the work on this. They have been very
cooperative and done a commendable job. We had to make some
concessions, and I think we agreed on most of the things.
There is one question that I've got here, and that's
on the activity centers in the estates. I think you said
something about you could have intensity of twenty-six
units.
type?
MR. LEE: ACLF.
MR. KELLER: Of KEL or KLE residential or of some
MR. LEE: ACLF.
MR. KELLER: And confined to that type of things.
Some of the people in the estates have been wondering and
worrying that we would have apartment type houses out in
some of these deals, you see, and we don't want that. I
47
mean most of the people in the estates do not want that.
So if it's Just to take care of older people or
something like that, or semi-retired clinic type thing, but
whateYer that is, but it's not a residential deal.
COM~4ISSIONER SAUNDERS: My understanding of an ACLF,
and I'll -- there are no medical facilities in the adult
living.
MR. KELLER: It's living for some type of people that
need some type of you support.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS, The meals and things like
that, but no medical facility.
MR. KELLER: But we want it very well understood.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: There is or isn't?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: There can be.
MR. KELLER: They could have.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: What.
MR. KELLER: They could have dining rooms and things.
We would have to go have --
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Perhaps Mr. Blanchard could answer
that. Barbara Cacchione (previously identified as Cashone).
MS. CACCHIONE: There are different types of ACLF's,
Adult Congregate Living Facilities. Some of them do include
00 £B0 7
48
congregate eating areas, dining rooms where the people come
and take meals. They vary in size as to the type
arrangement or facility available. Some don't have eating
facilities in the unit, some do. Some can be very small
size inside each unit, and some are larger. They can also
include medical care, some types of care, housekeeping area
care. They really do vary a lot. But they can have all or
some of those elements.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Ms. Cacchione. Youth Haven is
a group home, if you will.
MS. CACCHIONE: Yes.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: And so is David Lawrence,
falling into little different category.
On the question of density, the way that we determine
density in Youth Haven, for example, was based on one number
per acre. There are very various ways of determining the
uses.
Are we in fact changing that, I hope?
MS. CACCHIONE: Yes. As you recall, last July we
were directed in our plan to adopt -- change our facility
for adult and group homes, and we did prepare an ordinance
for you last July. The legislation that is pending, that
49
Commissioner Goodnight spoke to that was adopted by the
legislature, caused us to pull that from your agenda at that
time and make some provisions to it.
But you will be seeing some change to the adult for
the ACLF, group homes and how we calculate.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Just one last question.
Under the proposed Golden Gate Master Plan, where
could these types of adult congregate care facilities, group
homes, be located?
MS. CACCHIONE: In the activity center.
MR. LEE: The ACLF's would be limited to the
neighborhood centers that had been identified. They also
could fall under one of the other mechanisms for provisional
uses. The first one being if you were along Golden Gate
Parkway and you were in between existing provisional use
cases and the adjacent one is -- if you were next to an
existing zone for commercial area, you could apply for
commercial use adjacent to it.
So there are three different areas that -- where you
could apply for provisional use.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Could they also be placed in
the twenty acre area that we're talking about along Golden
50
Gate Parkway.
MR. LEE1 That would not be one of the permitted uses
as outlined.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Okay.
MR. KELLER: I also would like to clarify one point.
In this activity centers you are allowed five acres
but no one activity more than two and a half acres. So thi
would prevent one -- anybody from taking one five-acre
corner and making it one very heavy commercial, and I wanted
the public to know that.
They -- each one activity in the plan goes for a
limit of two and a half acres, so that there would be an
opportunity for more than one commercial operation in this
activity center, so that one person couldn't buy five acres
and sit there and hold it hoping to make a fortune because
that's the only one to be put there. So I think that's a
very had good point that we had.
As far as Golden Gate Parkway from Santa Barbara,
that stretch from fifty-six to eighty units, one time it was
ninety units. I would hope that -- we have to do something
with it. I fully recognize that triplexes with all those
cars and trucks sitting out in front are very unattractive.
00 £1 9050
51
There happens to be one triplex on that road on the
parkway that is a very, very desirable type thinH.
Unfortunately, some of those triplexes are being
commercialized in the sense that they take almost anybody in
and, unfortunately, maybe that's the only kind of tenants
they can Her, and some of them are in terrible shape, and
they are not conducive.
If someone comes to visit me in Golden Gate Estates,
and they ride down that road and see the mess that it's in,
they wonder what kind of outfit I'm living in. So I'm not
in favor of the present junky situation.
However, I would hope that we -- if we would do that
it -- some type of low intensity or professional, that we
would follow the plan similar to the plan that the staff has
suHgested so they have so many curb breaks and well
landscaped so it will be -- we have a beautiful part of that
parkway, that we spent quite a bit of money on putting the
meridian in, and it doesn't make sense to ha'.~e a beautiful
median and have shacks on both sides.
And strip zoning is out. I don't think -- if we put
that into straight strip zoning like the rest of the Growth
Management Plan, I don't think the state would accept it
00 3£10o51
52
because it's now no longer considered good planning.
So anything we do, please, let's follow staff's
advice and have -- have those properties combined in some
way and have less curb cuts and have some adequate, adequate
buffering in the front so that those things look like
something when we come into Golden Gate Estates.
Secondly, I will say this: That there is a problem
with too many little stores. We're going to get a K-Mart,
and the reason why people go from Golden Gate Estates to the
city -- I haven't been down on Fifth Avenue for ten years.
And years ago -- I have been here over twenty-one years.
Years ago, if you wanted a hardware store, you had to go
down to the hardware store. That was the hardware store.
we have developed so that we have a number of
shopping centers with stores like K-Mart and Wal-Mart, so
that people I think when we get the K-Mart -- I hardly ever
shop out of Golden Gate City now. Even if I'm in Naples and
come back with groceries, I would rather go uo Winn-Dixie or
Florida Choice in Golden Gate than give them the business in
the city, so I wait until I Get home.
And if we have a K-Mart, and that K-FArt is,
incidentally, is a pretty big piece of property. That's
53
going to be a big shopping center, not just K-Mart there.
We're going to have pretty much all the adequate shopping we
need in Golden Gate.
So if we put too many little strip stores in there,
what is going to -- what you're going to find out is they're
vacant, a mess and then take in anything, used furniture
stores in there, all kinds of Junk, Just like there is in
Anderson Avenue in Ft. Myers.
So we have to be very, very careful not to create a
problem that's going to be a problem in the future.
MR. BLANCHARD: Neno Spagna.
CHAIRMAN HASSE~ Mr. Spagna.
MR. SPAGNA: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
My name is Neno Spagna. I'm a sole planning
consultant here, and I represent four individual property
owners as well as the property owners along Golden Gate
Parkway, and I too have attended all of the meetings that
the committee has held, and in the very beginning I had many
concerns with respect to the way the area was being planned,
and -- that is, I did not personally, but my clients.
However, during the process of the hearings that were
held, we were able to work almost all of them out to the
54
satisfaction of people that I represent.
There were some cases in which I withdrew certain
considerations which I was asking the Board to look into or
which I was asking the Commission, and there were some
concerns which were eventually incorporated into the plan
that we have before us this evening.
There were two main concerns that I had that have not
been addressed satisfactorily to the class that I
represent.
One of them is the Golden Gate Parkway. I think
there has been enough discussion on it, and I can simply say
that I too and the people that I represent believe that that
should be rezoned or should be designated for future
commercial use of some type.
I would say that I did hear a plan from the staff
this evening, alternate number two, in which I believe they
were considering combining commercial with professional use,
and I'm not familiar with the details of that, but I think
that something along that line would be satisfactory with
the property owners along Golden Gate Parkway.
The other parcel of lands that I represent is the
parcel of land that lies immediately north of the Florida
55
Power and Light distribution station, and currently zoned E
estates. It's going to be very difficult to develop this
into a home with the amenities that a property owner would
expect to gain as a home owner living on that lot, and we
have repuested -- and at one time I believe it had been
accepted by the study committee -- to have that designated
for future commercial use of some type.
We have never asked and the property owner does not
intend to put a very industrial commercial use in there. He
understands and he knows too that there is residential
property north of it. Our feeling has always been that it
should be used either as a very limited type of commercial
use or some type of transitional use that would fit in and
be a good buffer between the Florida Power and Light station
and the residential to the north of it.
And I would like to suggest and ask that the Board
consider that this be designated for some type of a very
limited and restricted commercial use and that a condition
of that designation be that it would require a PUD proposal
at the time of the request for the rezoning, so that there
could be no question and the Board could place whatever
restrictions they felt were necessary on there to allow that
56
parcel of land to be a very desirable transitional area
between the Florida Power and Light and the residential area
to the north.
And the last comment that I had was a very general
comment, and that is: Throughout this report, I see such
verbiage as shall be consolidated with adjoinin9 commercial
developments and shall be subject do workin9 out agreements
with the abuttin9 property owners and such wording, and this
makes me very uncomfortable because it puts the property
owner at the behest of his neighborhood or property owner,
and I don't think that's fair. I don't think a person
should have -- he should be able to develop his land without
9oing with his hat in his hand to the Commission.
So I would like to su99est two followin9 solutions to
that. The first solution would be that the county staff
work out some type of a plan whereby everyone who came in
and petitioned would know beforehand where the access was
going to be and where you could put his project so that he
could draw his plans accordingly.
And the second one, which probably would be somewhat
easier, would be simply to add a few more words on the end
of those requirements to make it read, for example:
006£1 056
57
Driveways and curb cuts for projects within the commercial
infill area shall be consolidated with adjoining commercial
development.
And then add the following: Unless provided
otherwise by the county. And I think this would allow the
staff to achieve what they are attempting to do by making
the -- by restricting the access and by creating some
uniformity.
But -- but at the same time if the petitioner working
with the staff and the adjacent property owner is not able
to work out any kind of a solution, well, then the Board
would have the option of reviewing it and perhaps waiving
some part or all of that requirement.
Like all of others, I feel that there is not enough
commercial property out here. There may be enough to the
year of 2000, which I question, but when Mr. Lee said "and
beyond," that made me a little bit nervous. I can't in any
way see that there is enough commercial at the present time,
much less and beyond.
So I certainly agree with the rest of the people who
feel that there should be some more commercial, and in my
mind -- in my mind, it's not a question of whether we need
58
commercial or not and whose measurements you're going to use
to make the determination, but to me where should we put
it. And the sooner it's put somewhere, the better off we
will be because then it will be there and everybody will
know about it.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Mr. Spagna, where is that
property that you said is immediately north.
MR. SPAGNA: Immediately north of the power station
on 951.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: How big is it?
MR. SPAGNA: I believe it's a lot and a half, which
would be seven and a half acres.
MR. BLANCHARD: Timothy Constantine.
MR. CONSTANTINE: For the record, I'm Tim
Constantine, president of the Golden Gate Civic
Association.
First of all, I wanted to commend the staff on coming
up with a second option. I know they have been out and
talked to our chambers of commerce and a number of groups,
and they have heard that over and over. And I look forward
to seeing that.
A couple of quick comments on the parkway. The
59
aesthetics are one thing that concern me. People come in to
the community, we want something pleasing to the eye, and
somehow owners of an operating business, in my mind, would
tend to be more apt to keep up their property so it's
aesthetically pleasing than renters from typically absentee
owners. I think if you look up and down the highway at some
of the du and triplexes, it pretty much speaks for itself as
to how they are kept up.
But the real comment is on growth out here. The
comment was made that we have enough commercial to last
through 2000 and perhaps beyond, and I have to disagree.
I'm sure you're familiar with a 1988 study, I believe
it was done for the county, by the Plan Tech Corporation, of
Growth Throughout Collier County. And that projects that
the city of Golden Gate will have over thirty-eight thousand
people, and if you combine the estates with it, forty-six
thouoand four hundrod and n~noty poople are projected to bo
here by the year 2005.
If the business association's survey holds true,
fifty percent of the people are already going into Naples
for business now. Certainly if we double the size of how
many people are here, we do not have enough commercial use.
60
So I just want staff to perhaps go back and look at
those numbers. If we're going to have forty-six,
forty-seven thousand people here, we certainly don't have
enough commercial use for them.
CHAIRMAN HASSE:
MR. CONSTANTINE~
MR. BLANCHARD~
MR. CONSTANTINE:
Do you have a --
Anything on that?
(No verbal answer; indicating.)
Okay.
MR. BLANCHARD~ Just one comment on that, Mr.
Chairman. Not to be argumentative.
What the staff has said is not that there is enough
commercial development out there, that there is enough
commercial acreage. The problem is that you find people
going into Naples for the type service that does not exist
here.
The opportunity for development is there, in the
staff's opinion.
CHAIRMAN HASSE:
MR. BLANCHARD:
CHAIRMAN HASSE:
Thank you.
Ross McIntosh.
Mr. McIntosh.
MR. McINTOSH: For the record, my name is Ross
McIntosh. I live at 2746 66th Street Southwest. I want to
61
address two issues.
The first is the progosed multi-family or commercial
along the 9arkway. My sense of it is that the community is
best served by the ogtion two.
And with all due respect -- but with all due respect
to Commissioners Saunders and Goodnight, I would like to
reflect just for a moment on the discussion we had about the
absence of additional right-of-way for widening the 9arkway.
The comments that we have just heard about the
burgeoning population out here. The likelihood is that
where we're going to end up getting this property for the
right-of-way is from the median that everyone thinks is so
attractive, and the fact that that process will be
accelerated decelerated from whatever develoTs alongside of
the parkway.
So I simply want to caution the commissioners, when
we begin to talk about intensity of the commercial
activities in there, that the down side is that which are
Comprehensive Plan was designed to avoid.
You know, we talked about concentrating the
commercial at intersections so the traffic could flow freely
between them, and now we're dabbling with that or at our
00 3 10061
62
peril. So I'm simply here to support the staff's
recommendation relative to low intensity commercial, the
option two, with the emphasis on low intensity.
The second area that I would like to address is the
matter of the activity centers, the multi -- multi-use
activity centers.
I thought for a moment that Commissioner Volpe was
following my train of thought when he talked about future
activity centers. My thought is really along the lines of
what I would call tiered activity centers.
My understanding of the Comprehensive Plan as it's
currently set up is that if I'm a church and I need a site
in the urban area and I looked towards Golden Gate, I can be
on the parkway between existing provisional uses or I can be
in one of the identified nodes. ~
The difficulty with that concept is that I'm now --
relative to these nodes, I'm now in competition with the
commercial users~ so when I go out here, there are property
owners on four corners and until there are two active
commercial entities there, the seller is holding out for a
commercial buyer rather than my institutional use, my quite
appropriate community use.
63
So my inclination is to -- that leads me to the idea
that maybe what we need are, yes, these multi-use centers,
but what about a second tier, a provisional use actively
center, if you will. One that comes to mind immediately is
Livingston Road and Golden Gate Parkway.
For example, we have Grey Oaks. I think they Just --
you were there, I wasn't. Did they get commercial in the
southwest quadrant of that intersection today?
MR. BLANCHARD:
MR. McINTOSH:
at any rate.
It hasn't been before the Board yet.
I'm sorry. They are asking for that,
And we have Florida Power and Light on the other
corner, and we have Wyndemere which is, whatever it was,
their sales center. And then there is a five-acre tract
that sits at that corner, and some day that will be very
busy as crossing the bridge Getting to the canal. That
strikes me as a potential future use.
I'm not suggesting commercial, but a future
professional actively center.
Another one that comes to mind is actually developed
and might as well be designated as such is Oaks and
Vanderbilt Road, where we have a school and a park and a
00 C 0063
church within the estates and a home that has been
constructed. You know, that just -- as a matter of fact,
emerged as an activity center.
We have Oaks Boulevard where it crosses Vanderbilt
and runs into the Harvey Brothers Farm which is some day
going to be, obviously, a major PUD.
We have 951 and Vanderbilt Road, 951 is being four
laned. Again the Harvey Brothers Farm.
So I begin to see -- what I'm looking for is
opportunities for the uses that the community needs that
should not be -- legitimately be in competition with
commercial uses. That's why churches spring up where they
do and not at the corner of Pine Ridge and Airport Road, for
exampl e.
And so I suggest to the Commission that what we might
consider ~s a secondary, no commercial, secondary activity
center. Take a look at the intersections.
By the way, I think most of them are well west of
1-75 or -- I should say 951, and they are the result of
roads that used to be local roads through the estates that
now have been linked into the county network. Santa
Barbara, after all, used to be a short road extending
65
through the estates and now it will go from Rattlesnake-
Hammock -- from 41, in fact, all the way to Immokalee Road.
It has changed in character and all the little intersections
have changed in character.
And so I would like to propose that we consider a
tiered secondary center, so that churches, daycare centers,
ACLF's, are not competing with circle.
MR. LEE: We did explore that use. Secondary
neighborhood center. And we received quite a bit of
opposition to that concept from the committee and from the
general public.
They wanted to see a limited number of these types of
neighborhood centers and were very adverse to permitted
provisional use at inter -- at every interser~tion, and
that's primarily one reason why we didn't include it. It
wasn't in our -- it has filtered out from committee and
public comment.
So that idea was considered at one time.
MR. McINTOSH: I hope that we don't conclude that
it's a bad idea, but merely that it's an idea that has
fallen by the way side.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: That was a consideration, what was
66
looked at very carefully, so we wouldn't have a hodgepodge
of them. Because after all, the area that you're talking
about is the estates, and they're trying to preserve the
character of the estates.
MR. McINTOSHt
MR. BLANCHARD=
MR. MELCHORE:
Thank you.
Jim Melchore.
For the record, I'm Jim Melchore.
Chairman, Advisory, Beautification of the Golden Gate
Parkway.
The comment was just made previously to this --
inferred, I believe -- that indeed the parkway beutification
m~ght be wiped out by the enlargement of Golden Gate
Parkway. This is not true. As given to me by George
Archibald.
Yes, indeed, there is six laning of Golden Gate, but
only two at Santa Barbara. Now we are very much concerned
Golden Gate City, we who are paying for the beautification
of the parkway. So we certainly have interest in what's
going in there.
To date, it appears to us -- at least to me -- that
indeed what we have is a hodgepodge of activity along the
parkway. We have two gasoline stations and accompanied by
67
convenience stores to go with it. We have squeezed in a car
wash. We have squeezed in a Jiffy quick oil change, and
what's worse than that, we have just most recently put in a
drive-throuGh liquor soda store which is now up for sale,
and the configuration of this particular store, I cannot see
is going to become anything but an eyesore, because I can't
see what else can go in that place.
So, indeed, I do concur with what's being said. We
do need to confer with a review committee, particularly for
other part of the parkway which is going to make it
commercial.
I do not like to see duplexes. They do not add
anything, but this does not add to it, what we have out here
nOW.
It's sad that it has gone by.
Thank you.
MR. BLANCHARD:
is Alan Moniz.
MR. RITCHIE:
David Ritchie. Following Tom Grant
For the record, my name is Dave
Ritchie. I am a committee member.
The first thing is, I just want to restate what Mr.
Coletta said. The majority of the Steering Committee is in
favor of commercial to the parkway. No offense, George.
68
I wanted to ask Ron and Bob~ The two public meetings
and the survey that went out, what would you say the
public's input was regarding the parkway?
MR. LEE: I can check the results of that survey.
Do you want me to state the percentage of the people
that were in favor of that concept?
MR. RITCHIE~ I'm trying to determine -- let's say
with the survey. Was it a majority, was it less than a
majority that was in favor of the parkway?
MR. LEE= Within the whole study, including the city
and the Golden Gate Estates, forty-three -- there were three
options. Alternative two was the commercial, and that
alternative received forty-three percent of the response.
So I would say that based on the survey, a majority
of the people within the total study are in support of the
commercial along the parkway.
MR. RITCHIE: Would you say in the majority of the
public meetings that the people felt they were in favor?
MR. LEE: This is a result of the brochure.
COMMISSIONER SHENAHAN: Did you mention a number of
percentage? I didn't hear it.
MR. LEE= I said forty-three percent.
69
MR. RITCHIE~ I Just wanted you to be aware of what
we were told through this whole process.
Thirdly, I guess the Golden Gate Parkway, I would
hate to see it look like a third world area. If you see the
proliferation of brand new not too long ago and now run
down, defiled and dirty. And you see all the old cars
there. Not terribly attractive.
I don't think -- I know staff raised a question in
the past about nobody wants to -- on a road that, the size
of the parkway -- do anything that would increase traffic
flow. That was a concern. I don't think we want to. I
think what we want to propose is a type of commercial which
is only going to serve us the needs we have now but into the
future and based on the population figures. So it's not
going to increase -- Just serve us now and what our needs
are now.
The last comment is the -- the staff refers to DCA in
Tallahassee almost wanting them to give them what they like.
I would hate to see you give in or the Commission vote to
give DCA everything they like instead of what the public
likes.
You know, it's overwhelming support for the
000(;[0069
70
commercial on the parkway. Civic association, Chamber of
Commerce, the business association, surveys, businesses, all
want it. So I would hate to see the DCA intimidate us.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: We will not let them
intimidate us.
MR. RITCHIE: Yes.
MR. BLANCHARD: Tom Grant.
MR. GRANT: Good evening.
I was one of the original people that got this thing
going on the parkway. I have lived in Collier County on and
off for over twenty years. I have published phone books in
Golden Gate and Golden Gate Estates and Immokalee for over
ten years. I feel I know the area. I know the people.
The only reason basically that I got [nvolved in it
is because I bought -- I bought it for a multi-family -- a
four-plex on the parkway. But I talked to some of the
people in there after I bought it. I thought about putting
a duplex up or a triplex, and they basically discouraged me~
tough time renting, keeping people there, basically a
revolving door.
And because I knew business people, I started doing
my own survey. And does it make sense.
O0 }CIO0?O
71
And by tr&velinq with my father since a kid, I got a
chance to see what made a good or bad city and usually when
you have a qood downtown district, well maintained and kept,
I think the pride of the business people filters down
through the Dride of the community -- pride of the community
back to the pride of the business peoDle.
I think it's Just a hand in glove situation. And
especially now that the parkway is beautified. I don't
think there is any prettier parkway or median in Marco
Island or wherever in the county.
But basically some of the statistics, just so that
you all know. I'll Just quote a couple here so all of you
understand. Roughly over five thousand Golden Gate
residences would be constructed in Golden Ga~e City. You're
talkin~ already ninety blocks of multi-family property.
According to a study done, fifty hundred, and twenty-seven
lots can be used for duplex, triplex dwellings. More than
twenty-five percent has been set aside for duplex and
triplex. I think that's quite a bit for the community of
this size in this type of area.
Ail to~ether, we're talking about thirty-five and
five thousand -- units can be possibly built on for
O00CIOo?I
72
multi-family units, which a city like this. Five thousand
residential units.
Also -- I did my own little survey, because of doing
this, to tell you how many lots there are. There are
basically not eighty. There are fifty-four. The lots are a
hundred and twenty-five by a hundred and twenty-five.
We're not trying to put a K-Mart on every piece of
property. I'm a small businessman. I used to own my
hometown restaurant and I was very proud of it, and my lot
was eighty feet wide. I don't know, for a hundred and
twenty-five. I guess for Florida, a major grandeur, a major
complex here. Can a small business person like me cope with
a hundred and twenty-five lot.
I'm saying, to me that's more than enough for what I
want to put on, for my small business. But there are
forty-four lots there.
We have talked about the property owners.
We have talked for six years. This is the third set
of commissioners I have been in front of. The staff, I
don't know how many staff people I have gone through, since
they switch jobs quite a bit.
The point is, I did this survey on the faith. At one
00( ( 0072
73
point, there were thirty-eight percent of the multi-family
units up for sale. That's sixteen out of forty units on the
parkway.
Why are they selling? Why do they want out? They
can't maintain it. Because they can't maintain a good
enough clientele in there to keep it painted and keep the
beauty of the place to get the renter in there. So that's
why.
Some of these statistics, I feel are very very
important. And Just a couple others.
We went out and we took petition names. We have
close to -- over eight hundred, close to a thousand petition
names. Golden Gate people. Not Marco people. Not North
Naples. Not Naples. Golden Gate residents. And they are
all signed.
We all have forty-six property owners on both sides
of the highway, within three hundred feet, which is a
criteria which commissioner had me go out and -- Alan and
myself -- instructed me to go out and talk to these property
owners, because they are the only people who would possibly
say we don't want this done. So this is the criteria of the
county to do what we have done. We have basically done it
74
over the six years.
But -- we want staff and county to let us go ahead
and develop this and do it in a proper fashion like you're
saying. But forty-six property owners on within three
hundred feet of both sides of the street. They all agree.
They don't want multi-family.
I don't know of anyone else who wants multi-family on
the parkway, but -- and that's concluded. We don't want a
hodgepodge either. We want to comply with the county.
I can show you a hundred and twenty-five building
lots, commercial, that make unique and very desirable type
looking buildings and parking for small business people like
myself and like a beauty shop and that type of thing.
But the point is -- and I feel very s~.rongly about
it. This is your entryway, and you better believe it,
downtown street, and we have one shot at it. And if this
property develops with more multi-family, you're not going
to want to drive through to go to the K-Mart or to our nice
new shopping center either.
As far as commercial, I don't know where you guys
come up with your statistics. I won't get into it all,
because I'm so flustered through the years with what we're
75
trying to do, but basically the community is behind us. Ail
the property owners are behind us. We have had different
commissioners behind us.
But it seems like every time I miss a window of
opportunity. Now we Just missed another window, and I'm
afraid I'm going to miss another window where we don't get
you who have been out here to listen to the people.
We want some action. We don't care what Tallahassee
thinks. We're the ones who live here and be here. That's
more important to me and, I think, to the community.
Because I don't care what's going on in Tallahassee. We're
having a tough enough time here.
But I appreciate your time, and I do have more
statistics, but there is no sense in beating a dead horse,
so to speak.
Plus, I didn't have all the materials. I didn't
realize this was going to be such a formal situation.
Otherwise, I would have brought some of my renderings that
we have already had done.
And one of the things that we did propose for the
property owners. On the one in and out for two hundred and
fifty feet. That's quite a bit of difference. If property
76
owners split that -- say I own that one driveway. I can
split it with the guy next door. That is good business
sense. And aesthetically, too, because basically, he would
be on the same theme that I would be.
W~atever you come up with, I appreciate your time,
and I pray that we can get a vote from you before anything
else changes here.
CHAIPJ~AN HASSE: Mr. Grant, I thank you for steering
me in the right direction. That's been a number of years,
and quite frankly, I have been working on this for a number
of years to see what can be done. One only has to go take
the drive and see the triplexes that are a little bit east
of here.
I don't hesitate to say that. We see our code
enforcement. And Mr. Clark, I would like to talk to you and
take you up the block here. There must be a whole household
of furniture on the curb, and I'm trying to figure out what
to do about it now. And so before you leave.
In any case, I support what you're saying, Mr. Grant.
I know the work that you have done, and you have done a
fantastic job. And if I had looked at what is being
proposed by the committee and listening to you now, it is as
77
though your dream has come true as far as this goes, because
it's absolutely the right way to go. And I assure you, I'm
going to push for that.
MR. MONIZ: My name is Alan Moniz, and I have worked
with Tom for a while on this project too, for about six
years.
And although Tom is a business person, I'm Just a
concerned citizen. And I started out -- I lived on Golden
Gate Parkway for six years, and I can tell you some personal
experiences, one of which motivated me to start working on
this project, and I was talking with one of the tenants on
Golden Gate Parkway. And her little three-year-old daughter
was right there as she was talking with me -- and the
daughter couldn't reach the pedals on the tricycle -- and
even though it seemed like a fraction of a second, that
child rolled out into the parkway and was almost killed by a
car.
And I thought, "I've got to do something about it
because this is no way for people to live," which is one
reason they can't keep tenants on the Golden Gate Parkway.
It's no place to live, bring up a family. And I got ahold
of Tom, and we started off in the direction of the -- and I
00(IL10O77
78
thought, what better way -- because I deliver mail -- than
to talk to people that know.
And Iow and behold, I have over eight hundred people
that were glad that somebody took up the issue because they
felt the same thing that I felt along Golden Gate Parkway,
and these people -- I don't know about you, but I wouldn't
give my telephone number to a stranger. But all of these
people not only gave me names and addresses but also
telephone numbers and said, "Go on, go to it."
These are concerned people like myself.
I have a regular speech here, but I'm not going to
get into it because it has been rehashed and I don't want to
go over it again.
But these people are very concerned about what
happens to their community. In Golden Gate, we are working
people. We cannot make these meetings that are in the
morning or afternoon. Sometimes I have waited a whole day
there waiting to be heard, and I can understand the
frustration.
Some of these people are holding two and three Jobs
to keep a family Going. It's not that they don't care.
They are busy earning a living for their family. That's
00(IC10O78
79
what Golden Gate is, a bunch of average ty]~e families.
And what I have heard is, time and time again, is
they work hard for their property and property value, and
they feel that what's going in on Golden Gate is bringing
their property value down. And this is the biggest asset
that they have, and of course their livelihood. And I was
really surprised and taken by talking to these people and
wanted to convey this to you, to Commission and to staff and
to the planning.
I don't understand a lot of legality, but I can tell
you on a layman's term. That making a pleasing aesthetic
theme, low density, whatever; not duplexes, not single
family, but something commercial.
I would like to see Golden Gate, you know, have a
downtown area. And it may be make this an -- a part of the
downtown area along with your activity centers. I'm so glad
that so many people are for it.
And I thank you, too. I thank the committee who have
worked very hard. I have been to most of their meetings,
and they have gone over it with staff time and time ago
again. And I thank you and I know you have dedicated your
time, and -- because you are concerned citizens, and I truly
8O
applaud you.
And I thank you for hearing me out.
MR. BLANCHARD: Kathleen Returns, followed by Dick
Clark.
MS. REEMS: My name is Kathleen Reems.
18th Avenue Northwest.
I live on
I'm also here to speak in favor the Master Plan.
I think the county staff have done an outstanding J ok
on this plan, but I would also like to say that I and most
of the people that I have spoken to, and that's quite a few
-- my neighbors, members of the Estates Area Civic
Association, consider this plan to be a compromise that we
can live with.
We're -- I think most of us would be happy never ever
to have to hear the word provisional use again. And the
same with commercial.
We did not move -- I did not move out to Golden Gate
Estates to find myself next door an asphalt parking lot with
two hundred cars, which is something that just recently
happened to me, with a church that was that is going to go
up on Oaks Boulevard.
So the concept of the neighborhood, the areas for
81
provisional uses is a good one. And I also think that, with
regard to the gentleman who spoke before who wants a
secondary of provisional uses, we really already have that
because, as I understand, there is provision for provisional
uses to Go in next to -- as a buffer, next to the, between
the commercial or provisional uses, another provisional use
and then the residential.
Is that not correct?
MR. LEE: RiGht.
MS. REEMS~ So we really already have that. So I
don't want to hear that I need commercial, that I need the
conveniences, that I need stores close to me. If I wanted
that, I would have moved into Golden Gate City.
So I want to thank the committee, and I would also
like to thank the County Planning Staff, and I hope that
when the time comes to pass this plan that you would, you
will do it with no tinkering and tamperinG.
MR. BLANCHARD: Dick Clark. And then the last
speaker registered is Donald Beacraft.
MR. CLARK: Thank you. I would like to say that
obviously, I know the planners quite well. I have a great
deal of respect for them. They are extremely knowledgable
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82
and very honest individuals.
The issue I would like to address, if I may, is
somethin9 that Commissioner Hasse has addressed, and the
issue is the Golden Gate Parkway.
I can tell you from enforcement viewpoint -- I have a
little knowledge about that -- that it is impossible, the
9rearer you have of a concentration of multi-family on a
busy thoroughfare, the more improbable that you're going to
get a high-class renter.
If you have a duplex and triplexes on a highly
traveled area, you're going to get a high transient type
renter over and over and over and over again. When you have
that, you have couches thrown out; you have furniture thrown
out; you have people who don't take care of their property.
You have property owners, many of them get very discouraged,
they realize that they bought into something that they're
not going to get their money out, so they don't put much
money in. That creates further deterioration in the
appearance, the aesthetics of the property.
The ones around -- the same thing happens. Why put
more money when the nextdoor neighbors don't. It becomes a
very down turn economic burden.
83
I would encourage a lot of study, and I know there
has been some, and I know there has been a lot of study in
it and new theory. I know what the books say, and the
planning books and the theory is fine.
But in fact, I'll tell you~ The probability of us --
and it's mt money, your money, all of the taxpayers' money
paying enf~ rcement people out there to keep this looking
nice -- in the end, if all of these property kuild up to
duplexes, I would be -- frankly, I would have to probably
assign at least two more enforcement people Just to that
area to keep it looking halfway decent.
That's my -- that's probably the -- Just half of what
I have to say, but I would urge very much if -- and I'm not
being factitious in saying it. If we have to have an
alternative between multi-family, duplexes, triplexes, et
cetera, along the parkway, I would much rather see the
county buy it and turn it into a passive park, because what
we're going to get -- and Commissioner Hasse is absolutely
correct, we have several on the parkway that over and over
we have sent people to court, we have fined them, we have
done about everything else.
But once you get that person to court, you fine that
84
person, you get that next thing done, you have to continue
over and over and over. I will tell you, you can't keep up.
It's impossible to keep up with that type of transients
turnover.
And to have that part of Golden Gate, a very desired,
nice part of Golden Gate, exposed to that probability -- and
it's more than a possibility, it's a probability -- I would
like to encourage some other thoughts.
Thank you.
MR. BLANCHARD:
MR. BEACRAFT:
Donald Beacraft.
Ladies and gentlemen. I would like to
speak in support of the existing zoning provisions for
provisional use, not only as existing in today's zoning laws
but particularly in the new programs where you were setting
aside areas adjacent to commercial properties for
provisional uses zoning. I think this is something that we
need very very badly.
Nobody wants to live next door a big supermarket and
have a nice seventy or eighty or ninety or $100,000 home.
There has to be that transition from the commercial venture
down to the residential area.
And so I would so request that we continue the
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provisional uses that now exist and particularly as the
program is presented.
CHAIRMAN HASSE:
MR. BLANCHARD:
here.
Thank you.
That's the last one.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: That was the last one.
I'm very thankful for all of the people who came
This was an informal meeting for the Commission, and
it's not a formal meeting wherein we can take a vote or
anything, but when it comes before the Planning Board, and
understand and I hope the staff has got a message here
tonight in regards to the two areas that there was a option
on, of commercializing as has been presented here tonight,
by many of the people and the committee.
Commercializing, which was the only ~]ifference that
the committee had, if I recall correctly, Mr. Keller.
MR. KELLER: No difference.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: What?
MR. KELLER: We were at pretty much in accord with
number two, that we looked into the commercial with the curb
cuts. So there was no diversion.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: There wasn't, except that the
committee, the staff has looked at the other end of it. And
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so the staff has heard people from Golden Gate area, and I
trust that we can move forward in that direction.
Mr. Saunders.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Before we break, I think we
probably can give the staff some direction in terms of
preparing for the next series of public hearings, and I
would like to see if there is just a general consensus on a
couple things.
One is it sounds like we have a consensus on
developing the downtown office commercial district.
I would like also to see if there is any consensus
for taking a look at expanding some of the uses, and I think
Commissioner Goodnight and I mentioned the possibility of a
restaurant or things of that nature.
I would like to see some discussion of some expansion
of those uses. I don't know if the Com~ission would agree
to that.
And also I would like to see if the Commission agrees
with the discussion of an architectural, some type of a
theme for Golden Gate.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Basically, I think that's a good
idea, Commissioner Saunders, and I don't know if we can do
87
it here and now or not.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: Just in terms of general
consensus.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: In terms of general consensus, of
course.
I can assure you that we won't take a motion on it,
but would everybody be in accord with looking to the
possibility of, architectural review sort, of an area such
as we're looking at in Golden Gate?
COMMISSIONER SHENAHAN: I certain would.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I certainly would.
MR. DELLECAVE: Is it possible -- is it possible to
put in an amendment to work in with their architectural
review -- to give it a little more. Working with some of
staff?
CHAIRMAN HASSE: I think that might be a good idea.
And work with the staff and come up with that, Frank. I
think would be a good idea.
Now the other one you thought of was the possibility
of adding something that would be sort of compatible with
the kind of buildings that we're talking about.
COMMISSIONER SAUNDERS: I think the limitation of
88
uses may be a little restrictive, and I would like to see
some more thought on some additional uses.
CHAIRMAN HASSE~ As long as we know that there is
MR. KELLER: No gas station.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: On Commissioner Saunders idea,
I think that's well made, but under the proposal we've got,
there is some discretion with the development, develop
designee to allow for additional uses.
So it's not Just those five. I think we ought to
proceed cautiously.
COMMISSIONER SHENAHAN: Flexibile.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Yeah. The clause there that
allows the flexibility that %~,.'re looking for.
I guess the one thought, the restaurant or a cafe.
thought the suggestion that that Commissioner Goodnight
made, the outdoor cafe, that's sort of a low intensity use
as opposed to an I -- you know, some sort of a fast food
restaurant.
So that's just some cautionary words. That may be in
keeping with what the staff has come up with. There may be
sufficient flexibility to allow those provisional uses that
000CI10o88
89
I have identified.
CHAIRMAN HASSE~ I think what is happening here is
basically we are giving staff a lot of things to look at,
and I think they'll come forward and take into consideration
what Commissioner Goodnight suggested.
I'm sure she wasn't talkinq about a fast food
restaurant or anything. She was talking about a quiet
luncheon place. And I see nothing wrong with that.
And it was -- you have that lattitude here to add
that kind of a thing into it.
I'm directing staff -- if they're listening. All
right?
COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: I think what I was looking
at was something with a minimum amount of seating of not in
the -- and I would think that you should have some type of a
maximum amount of square footage, also. Say, possibly
anywhere from fifty to seventy-five total occupancy, and
that may be too much, but -- and no drive-through or
anything like that. It wouldn't be a fast food, so to
speak.
It would be more a place that the people in that area
could go and have lunch without having to get in their cars
90
and get on the highway and drive somewhere to eat.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: That's an excellent idea.
And I think you would take that into consideration.
You will probably pass this by the committee again or will
you have any more meetings with the committee at all?
MR. LEE: I think the committee -- staff would like
to reconvene.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Why don't we do that and forward it
to the Commission and then bring it on to the Planning
Board.
Okay?
MR. LEE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: One of the other things.
When Mr. Spagna talked about that zoning next door to
FP&L. I would like to see a high type -- low type
commercial. I say high because I'm talking about maybe one,
two, commercial type that would be in there that would have
to be a PUD so that we could make sure that we had plenty of
side setbacks and everything. Because the way that I'm
looking at it, that was abutting the road on the north side,
and then anything past that would be a good residential
91
area.
And I don't know, maybe you need to think about that
for a little bit. But if and when, whatever is going to the
north side -- south side and the north side is in there,
there is not much of a buffer in there.
I don't know. I don't know how much acreage it is,
but we ought to think about it. Especially if we can think
of lower intensity commercial.
VICE-CHAIRMAN VOLPE: Commissioner Goodnight, how
about something that is being proposed along the parkway in
here, some type of a professional office uses?
COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: That would be if -- he
suggested that it would be in a PUD so we could have some
restrictions as to what was going to be in there, the
setbacks, the landscaping and everything so the Commission,
when the PUD was approved, would have a little more
flexibility than we would have Just zoned that way.
MR. BLANCHARD: I'm not sure of the physical
description of the property, the road and everything.
It's important to determine if this is one of the
transitional sites already where we would allow provisional
uses alonG.
92
COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT~ That would be fine, too, as
long as the property owner knows. I didn't understand it as
being that way.
MR. BLAANCHARD: W"nat it does not allow is
commercial. It allows the provisional use. But we will
connect the physical strips of the property along the road.
CHAIRMAN HASSE: But Just so we don't have a strip
zoning up there. We don't need any more of that along 951
going north there. At the present time, we're dual laning
951, and let's keep it that way.
COMMISSIONER GOODNIGHT: And there is one other
thing.
On the group homes. We need to make sure that
everybody understands that group homes can move into
residential areas if they meet that criteria of the number,
according to state law, without any type of provisional use
or rezone or anything.
So we need to make sure that everybody understands
that part of it and make sure that that gets into the Master
Plan so that people that are coming in in the future that at
least will be able to see that this is part of the plan.
MR. BLANCHARD: We can do that.
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CHAIRMAN HASSE: Ail right.
I want to thank everybody for being here and having
an input here. I would like, speaking personally and for
the Commission, and I would like to once more to thank the
committee for the fine Job.
And George, we're in good shape.
(Meeting adjourned at 9:00 p.m.)
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