BCC Minutes 10/16/2001 W (Coordinating Agencies' Workshop)October 16, 2001
WORKSHOP MEET1NG
OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
OCTOBER 16, 2001
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:15 a.m. In
WORKSHOP SESSION in Building "F" of the Government
Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
James D. Carter, Ph.D.
VICE-CHAIRMAN:
Pamela S. Mac'Kie
Jim Coletta
Donna Fiala
Tom Henning
ALSO PRESENT:
Tom Olliff, County Manager
James Mudd, Deputy County
Manager
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Schedule for Coordinating Agencies Workshop
October 16~ 2001~ 9 a.m. to 12 p.m.
Collier County Board of Commissioners
Time Agency I Representative
9:00 - 9:10 am Introduction/ [ames Mudd, Assistant Deputy
Manager
7:10 - 9:35 am Municipal Planning Organization Robert Herrington, Manager
of the Municipal Planning
(MPO)
Organization
9:35 - 10:00 am Big Cypress Basin / South Florida Ananta Nath, Senior Supervising
Water Management District Engineer at SFWMD
(SFWMD)
10:00 - 10:25 am Army Corps of Engineer Kelly Unger, Biologist/Planning
Technical Leader with the Army
Corps of Engineers
10:30 - 11:00 am Southwest Florida Regional Wayne Daltry, Executive Director
Planning Council of the SW Florida Regional Planning
Council
11:00 - noon Questions and Public Comments
A general organizational overview of their agency, and cite under whose
jurisdiction they are created and governed;
What their specific responsibilities are, and what their function is as it relates to
Collier County Government;
An update of current projects that are being accomplished in conjunction with
Collier County Government, or that will affect Collier County;
What opportunities exist for the County to take better advantage of their
agency's resources, and what coordination improvements would their agency
suggest improving our relationship.
October 16, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We're live. We are ready, ladies and
gentlemen. Thank you for being here for our workshop. This is a
meeting with the joint agencies. We've got a very full agenda this
morning, and as we do with all our meetings, we'll stand for the
pledge of allegiance.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We also believe in God we trust. All
right, folks, it's 9:15. It's a little early, I guess.
Mr. Mudd, this is your meeting. I understand this morning that
you were going to be the guiding light here in terms of taking us
through the process.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. Commissioners, for the folks out in--
out in the audience and for the people that are watching on TV, today
we're going to have a coordinating agency workshop. I've heard
several times in the last year about the municipal planning
organization, and Mr. Robert Herrington is here to talk about that
particular organization and his part to play in it. We also have a
representative from the Big Cypress Basin for the South Florida
Water Management District. They're part of our daily lives as far as
water restrictions and other things that happen, permitting to Collier
County.
Clarence Tears, their director of Big Cypress Basin is someplace
in the Middle East. I've heard rumors he's in Saudi Arabia. He's in
the United Arab Emirates. Last call he might be taking liberty in
Bahrain, but he's out there doing his duty to our country.
And Ananta Nath, Senior Supervising Engineer from the South
Florida Water Management District, is here to talk to us about that
organization. Some other -- another agency that impacts our daily
lives in Collier County is the Army Corps of Engineers and Kelly
Unger, the biologist, planning technical leader for the Army Corpos
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October 16, 2001
from the Jacksonville district is here to talk to us about their role and
how they play a part in our lives in Collier County.
And last but not least, we have the Southwest Florida Regional
Planning Council, Mr. Wayne Daltry who I haven't seen today, but --
but no doubt will be here. Could have been the fog today that delayed
his arrival, but he's the executive director of the Southwest Florida
Regional Planning Council, and we're going to be talking about that.
What we've, basically, asked the participants to give us -- and
it's on your -- and it's on your agenda today, and I would ask as you
go through and listen to the speakers today that you make sure they
answer those questions that are on your agenda and where we've
asked them to give us a general organizational overview of their
agency, cite what jurisdictions that they have that are created for their
organization and what governs them, what specific responsibilities
are that their agency has and functions as it relates to Collier County.
We've asked them to give us an update on current projects that are
being accomplished in conjunction with Collier County Government
or which affect us. And then what opportunities exist -- I think this is
the most important part -- what opportunities exist for the county to
take better advantage of the agency's resources may it be cost share
or guidance or technical capabilities so that we can do business in a
better way in the future.
So without further ado, sir, I'd ask Robert Herrington of the
Municipal Planning Organization to start this discussion and
workshop.
MR. HERRINGTON: Good morning. My name is Bob
Herrington. I'm fairly new to the Naples area. I am the new MPO
manager. I work under Mr. Feder and Ms. Wolfe in the
transportation services division. What I brought this morning is
basically a handout that describes the Metropolitan Planning
Organization and what its functions are. If there's not enough, I have
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October 16, 2001
extras here.
Basically, the Metropolitan Planning Organizations were created
by federal legislation in 1974 to ensure that federal funds and state
transportation funds were spent on the improvements. They were
created for urbanized areas that were over 50,000 people or more in
population. The Collier County MPO was created in 1982.
Currently our MPO is comprised of five -- all five county
commissioners, two representatives from the City of Naples, one
from the City of Marco Island, and a nonvoting member who is our
FDOT district secretary or his designee. Currently our chairman is
Dr. Carter, and that position changes. The chair changes yearly.
The MPOs meet monthly, or we try to meet as often as that
whenever possible to decide on what and where state -- state and
federal transportation dollars are spent and how they're spent in
FDOT's or Florida Department of Transportation work program.
The original staff of the MPO back in 1982 was one and a half
persons. We shared a person with another department. Currently we
have my position and four other planners that work to make sure that
the funding is equitably brought into the area and to do the localized
planning for the regional transportation improvements. Technically,
we are county staff, but none of our funding is from ad valorem
taxes. Our funding comes through FDOT and through federal
highway funds. We are charged with developing many documents
and required documents for the area to show where the funding is
spent and make sure that it is spent in the correct ways.
The first document that we put together is a Unified Planning
Work Program. That is basically the MPO's budget which shows
what staff will accomplish for the upcoming year. And a certain
portion of our workload in this area is done by four consulting teams
that we keep onboard to do general consulting planning. Currently we
have projects going; two land-use density reduction investigations
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that are going on, congestion management system report that is being
developed, service volume updates, and Public Transportation
Development Plan which will be updated this year. It was originally
done three years ago, and it's due for a major update, and we will be
hiring a consultant to complete that for us to show us where we need
to go in the future with our transit.
Under short range transportation planning, concurrency plays a
very big role. The Department of Community Affairs enforces the
concurrency requirements. The DCA or Department of Community
Affairs requires that adopted levels of service are standards on roads.
A level of service is basically, we call it LOS -- is described by a
grade letter, "A" being the best, "F" being the worst. The level of
services determined by comparing the counted traffic volume, and
with the LOS table it determines what the road is operating at and
when it bears certain traffic volumes. Deficiency is when the LOS
exceeds the adopted standards.
Basically, responses to the imminent deficiencies are raising the
bar changing the minimum of standard D to E. Such examples for
local areas, East Tamiami Trail from Four Comers to Davis
Boulevard; Goodlette-Frank Road from Golden Gate Parkway to U.S.
41; and Airport Road from Pine Ridge to Golden Gate Parkway.
Changing the adopted level of service policy to constrained example
-- a good example of that is Vanderbilt Beach Road from U.S. 41
North to Gulf Shore Drive.
Each year we have to update our Transportation Improvement
Program which is a five-year document, shows the five-year
improvements for the local area. And in it it must include the state's
five-year work program. Current state projects in this area are the
design study on a coordinated traffic signal system; the widening of
Collier Boulevard, County Road 951 to the Jolley Bridge; and
widening of U.S. 41 North from Myrtle Road to Old U.S. 41.
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Future state projects that will be coming up and some of these
have started are the widening of U.S. 41 North from Old U.S. 41 to
the Lee County line; widening of U.S. 41 East from Rattlesnake
Hammock to Collier Boulevard; construction of an interchange at
1-75 at Golden Gate Parkway; construction of a new coordinated
traffic signal system.
The MPO staff guide the annual adoption of the Unfunded
Priorities List which DOT uses to create its new fifth year in its work
program. We also help guide the selection of enhancement projects
which include bicycle and pedestrian facilities, acquisition of scenic
easements, street landscaping, and wildlife crossing structures, tourist
information centers, and historic preservation such as the Walking
Dredge.
The county's Capital Improvement Program for Roads, which is
also included in our Transportation Improvement Program, involves
the spending of approximately $22 million annually. Completed so
far has been the Vanderbilt Beach Road U.S. 41 to Airport. Coming
soon would be the widening of Golden Gate Boulevard from County
Road 951 to Wilson and eventually construction of Livingston Road
from Radio to the Lee County line.
Another document that we must put together is the Long Range
Transportation Plan which is a 20-year document. It has a 20-year
forecast horizon, and it's updated every five years. We currently just
underwent our major update, and it was adopted by our MPO board.
It's amended as needed. Usually we try to do this on a yearly basis to
include any amendments that-- such as development changes and
population growth. It includes a needs forecast which begins with
population forecast based on population growth projections. And
computer traffic simulation model is used to produce future traffic
volumes.
It includes a financially feasible network which can be built to
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serve the population forecast for any given year. It's purchasable
with revenues forecast to that year, and projects must appear in the
Financially Feasible Network in order to appear in work programs.
We also have a transportation systems management and
intelligent transportation systems technology. Staff was involved with
a feasibility study for the coordinated traffic control system which is
ongoing. The estimated cost of that is $11 million, and design of
Phase I is under way. And $500,000 of the state's work program is
set aside annually for transportation system management projects.
We also work with Transportation Demand Management or
TDM Techniques. This includes variable work hours trying to get
employees -- employers to allow employees to report to work at
variable hours to help the congestion on our roadways. Car pool
incentives, van pool incentives. We have some major employer
problems here with getting employees to work. One of the things I'm
going to be pursuing is van-pooling programs and car-pooling
programs with these. We're at a point where we don't have the
funding to add transit, so I am going to point them in the direction or
hopefully show them the ways that we can set up van pool and car-
pool programs with them to get their employers -- employees back
and forth to work.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: My question is, do we have
anything like that now, or would that be a brand-new program?
MR. HERRINGTON: This is a brand-new program as far as I
know. We're getting just about weekly requests from hotels, resorts
and that -- needing to get folks out of the Immokalee area and various
areas in Collier County, and I'm going to be meeting with some of the
employers trying to push the car-van pooling program which is -- it's
an incentive for the employees to come to work, and it's also a benefit
to the employers.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Just one point, Immokalee
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Road and the school teachers that go to Immokalee, they're very
interested in forming some sort of car pool where they can pool at
different areas within the urban area and be picked up by a bus to go
to Immokalee--
MR. HERRINGTON: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- and there'll be meetings
taking place in the future on that.
MR. HERRINGTON: Right. We have-- in fact, we've had
discussions of that, not nothing major yet, but it has been brought up,
and I would like to get together with the folks, and I hope to work
with you, Commissioner, to get the names of the folks we need to
pull together and see if we can get something set up with them.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I would also recommend that if you
haven't you work with the Chamber of Commerce and EDC on this.
I'm sure they have transportation committees or groups that can assist
you in that, Bob. I think this would be a beautiful initiative, and I also
wouldn't overlook some of the major homeowner groups like the
Second District and perhaps the East Naples Civic Association where
some of these large communities -- and I've heard this in the past --
were interested.
And I know, Norman, we had one gentleman up in North Naples
bring this forward where we might be of assistance in getting some of
the pooling off to shopping centers or to buses where we could
relieve some of the more senior traffic on the road. So I think we've
got some great opportunities.
MR. HERRINGTON: Exactly. As I say, being the new kid on
the block, still have an outreach program of my own going on trying
to meet the folks that I need to talk to. Where I came from we had a
very strong car-pooling and van-pooling program. It was very
productive. We -- the county government served as the guinea pig, if
you will, and began the program, and out of 1,500 employees, we had
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close to 600 in car pools and van pools, and we were also running
van pools from -- from one county to the next because we found out a
lot of our employees out of Manatee County were working or living
in Hillsborough County.
So you can start it out as small as you'd like and make it grow as
big as you'd like. But I hope to be -- that's one of the things that I
hope to promote in this area to try to ease up some of the congestion
on the roadways and to alleviate some of the need. I know we have a
transit agency started, but we're small right now and with funding the
way it is that maybe we can help out with the van-pool programs.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Maybe a counterpart in Lee can be of
assistance --
MR. HERRINGTON: For sure.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- on transportation because we often
-- look at Interstate 75 any morning you see the traffic coming down
there, you know there might be some great advantage.
MR. HERRINGTON: Well, I look at -- I look at the backup
every morning at the Immokalee Road exit and all the traffic sitting
on the interstate and think to myself, if we had a car-pooling lot or
van pooling lot, a lot of those cars could be sitting in that parking lot,
and these folks could be in one vehicle. We have a poster -- I had a
poster where I came from that showed the -- the -- the idea to what it
really is. We showed, I think it was approximately 100 people
standing in the street. Then we showed them 100 cars on the
roadway. Then we showed them on buses, and we had six buses that
were carrying the same amount of people, and it shows that if you
can get these folks together you can alleviate the traffic problems in a
lot of the areas. So it's one of the things we'll be working with.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Great.
MR. HERRINGTON: The -- our MPO here also works with
non-motorized transportation such as the bicycle pedestrian
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programs. We also have maintained the comprehensive pathway plan
for Collier County, and we also program the improvements for
cyclists and pedestrians.
We have a pathway advisory committee that's made up of
citizens and constituents of the elected officials throughout Collier
County, City of Naples, City of-- and Marco Island. They meet
monthly on the third or fourth Friday. I'm not sure of the date. We
just rearranged that schedule, but -- and they come forward with their
thoughts and ideas from the various areas for bikeways and sidewalks
and such, and we bring those in turn to the MPO board for their final
recommendation and approval, and it's worked out very well. They
do come up with some great ideas, and they make sure that there's
facilities out there for the -- for the walkers and the bikers, so we look
forward to continue working with these folks.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Bob, is there any opportunity to work
with communities that have their own MSTUs that may jointly work
with you we could leverage funding in some areas?
MR. HERRINGTON: What we do is try to reach -- get in touch
with these folks and have them come to our pathway group meetings
and to our citizens group meetings so that we hear what they have to
say. We want to make sure that everybody that is in the area is
involved. With our citizens groups, we've had problems with getting
different areas involved, and I'm going to be approaching a lot of--
well, all of the elected officials for your help in reaching out to some
of these folks to try to get them involved. Commissioner Coletta will
tell you I've already been banging on his door, and he's -- he's helped
immensely in working with the Immokalee folks, and we hope to
have somebody on board soon with them.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'd just like to add, too, one of the
places we've identified in East Naples is Naples Manor. We have
about 1,400 homes in there, school right at the end of the street, and
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yet there are no sidewalks in the area, and the streets are very narrow,
lots of children in the area, and everybody's walking. So I've spoken
to Bob about what we can do about that particular area.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I can give you three real quick;
Naples Park, Palm River, and I think it's currently Commissioner
Coletta's territory, is Willoughby Acres. Those are three older
communities that I know got a real problem in these areas.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And the Gateway Triangle too.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I was going to wait my mm.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So I think we could give you a big list
to work with, Bob, and get the community leadership there to begin
to have those discussions, because often they find resistance in their
own communities that people don't want to tax themselves, they say,
"Why should I," but if they saw a leveraging effect or some way to
hook up in a program where they'll get a bigger boost for this, I think
that we might help them in initiating those programs and getting the
services quicker than waiting on a list that eventually gets to you.
But if you want to speed it up and get it happening in a shorter period
of time.
MR. HERRINGTON: Well, I'd be glad to work with these
folks.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Bob, one question. I know we
already went by the concurrency. What about the 5 percent loss rule?
How do we change that?
MR. HERRINGTON: The 5 percent? I can't really speak to it
myself. Maybe Mr. Feder would like to jump in.
MR. FEDER: Commissioner, we're working with that on the
update of the Land Development Code in the book and management
plan to make sure that the way we look at that is -- is appropriate.
We're also updating the level of service tables. We're going to try to
take those out of the Comprehensive Plan directly, note them by
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reference and; therefore, allow the reasonable update as needed by
action of the board as opposed to requiring the comp plan be updated.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If they did that ten years ago,
we wouldn't have the problem we have today.
MR. FEDER: I wouldn't have to review projects based on a
Level Service B when it's operating at E today, that's correct.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Just another -- another reason why we
need the road referendum to get caught up and deal with those issues
so that we can improve the level of service, and you can't do it unless
you've got the mechanisms there to deliver the product. MR. FEDER: Yes.
MR. HERRINGTON: Continuing on, in our non-motorized
transportation, the improvements that are brought forth in this area
are funded usually by approximately $450,000 from the county
general revenue funds and $500,000 from the state work program,
just to let you know where some of the funding comes from.
Our public transportation program, originally we put together a
public transportation development plan which was approved by the
county board and has worked with the MPO. It was adopted in June
of '99. We're currently in the process of having that updated. They're
going to -- will probably be working with the Center for Urban
Transportation Research out of the University of South Florida.
They're very geared in the transit development plan process. We've
been in discussions with these folks, and they're ready to jump on and
update our transit plan. What the -- what the transit plan will do is
bring to you some thoughts and ideas that you may want to consider
for the future of your transit in this area. I know we're in the -- in the
birth stages of the program right now, but from what I'm seeing with
the ridership counts and -- that it was something that was needed, and
it's proving itself.
Land-use connection with transportation issues in the area. Staff
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has been involved with the investigations into the future
transportation network of different density and reduction proposals.
Where does the money come from for these improvements, for any
transportation improvements? The federal gas tax, it's 18 cents per
gallon as you-all know. For every dollar sent to Washington, only 86
cents comes back making Florida, of course, a donor state. The
money is spent in FDOT's work program, and it pays for the MPO's
operating budget also. We also have state gas taxes which pay for the
FDOT expenses and the FDOT work program. The county gas taxes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Before you go to that, as A1 Perkins
would say, "Everybody listen up to those numbers." Fourth largest
state in the nation gets 86 cents back on every dollar sent to
Washington. This is an issue with your senators and your
congressmen, and if you don't write these people and complain about
it, you're sitting there being a victim. So we have pounded on this
forever and ever. And one more time, get on those e-mails, get out
those word processors, whatever you have you need to do today, you
want to have a happy day and make your congressman's day, send
them a letter on this issue.
MR. FEDER: Mr. Chairman, if I could, just to highlight that
right now the federal bill, which is a five-year bill typically, is up for
reannounce. Right now it's called T-21. It was IT-21. The next
iteration is up for discussion right now and it's a very important time
that we make sure that our elected folks in Washington know how
important it is that those dollars come back.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, maybe Katie can put up
Congressman Goss's e-mail and address and our Senators Nelson and
Graham and get those off and see what we can do about this. This is
a good time to let them know how important it is, and if they hear
from the constituency they'll do something about it.
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COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And, Mr. Chairman, maybe on
our behalf you'd write a letter to our congressman too.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I would be happy to do that, and I see
Mr. Eric Stats and the Naples Daily News here today. I hope that he
would make a plug in the newspaper about how important this issue
is and let us do that. I see Wayne Daltry here and maybe the
Southwest Florida Planning Council will make a pitch.
MR. HERRINGTON: Also collected for transportation
improvements in this area are road impact fees which you know must
be spent near or where it is collected.
Another program that your MPO here oversees is the
Transportation Disadvantaged Program of which Commissioner Fiala
is the chairman of our local coordinating board. Transportation
Disadvantaged means they're either elderly, physically or mentally
disabled, and economically disadvantaged citizens of Collier County.
The fares that pay for these trips are paid from client agencies who --
representative agencies of the clients and a small co-pay from the
passengers. The program is subsidized from a variety of sources,
including grants for state and federal Medicaid and from the county
general fund itself. This program is managed by the CTC or the
Community Transportation Coordinator.
Currently the county is a CTC, and it's handled usually through
your public transportation manager. The actual trip dispatching,
though, is done by a contractor under the name of Intelitran who is
under contract with the county. Oversight is provided by the local
coordinating board, again, and is made up of citizens representative
of state and federal agencies and staffed by the Southwest Florida
Regional Planning Council, Mr. Daltry's staff.
Public participation in the road improvement program in the
MPO process is something we're trying to better and to get up to
speed with to make sure that we're representing everybody in the
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area. We have various advisory committees of our MPO. The
technical advisory committee is made up of your staff and of the
agencies that are represented on that board. We have a Citizens
Advisory Committee that's made up of citizens that serve from each
of your districts, and we have also two representatives -- or we have
representatives from City of Naples and City of Marco Island.
A pathway advisory committee oversees our pathway and
bicycle program. It, again, is made up of citizens representing all
areas of Collier County. We have a community traffic safety team
which is made up of representatives in the safety and enforcement in
education field. It is also staffed by the Regional Planning Council
and then, again, the local coordinating board for Transportation
Disadvantaged.
The MPO has a web site that is up and running. The title for it
is listed on your paperwork there.
Our interagency ties, we participate with the following groups:
We work with the statewide MPOAC or Metropolitan Planning
Organization Advisory Committee. Your representative to that
currently is Commissioner Coletta. They meet quarterly, and we will
be meeting October 25th in Orlando. It's made up of two
committees, the governing board which is the elected officials from
each of the areas and the staff directors which I serve on.
Commissioner Coletta and I will be attending that meeting in
October.
We also are working with the Coordinated Florida Aviation
System Planning Process, and they meet to discuss statewide aviation
planning issues.
Locally we have what is called the Coordinated Urban
Transportation Studies or CUTS group which is made up of all of the
MPOs in District 1 and FDOT District 1 staff. We discuss the
common issues to make sure that coordination does take place among
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the transporation planning throughout the counties in District 1.
Other activities that we are working with is Corridor
Management Entity, which is basically the scenic highway group
overseeing the scenic highway program of U.S. 41 East. We are also
working with the land development codes and pedestrian friendly
design. We have developed a neighborhood traffic management
program which looks at traffic calming for established neighborhoods
that are impacted by traffic that cuts through those areas. And also
we make recommendations for amendments to transportation element
of the Growth Management Plan to make sure consistency continues
between it and the long range transportation plan and the
transportation improvement program for the area.
Some of the future activities we'll be working on and are
currently under -- some of them are currently under way -- is the
study of the mobility needs in Immokalee. It's an ongoing process.
We had a public meeting there approximately two or three months
ago to just get citizen's input. We took them basically maps of
Immokalee and asked them what they wanted to see and let them take
out marking pens and pencils and mark what they felt their needs
were right on the map. These were then take -- brought back to staff,
and we passed them on to the consultant that's doing this, and we'll be
coming up with a final report in the future for that study.
Also there is a traffic circulation needs in the Golden Gate
Estates area that's ongoing. They have been meeting with these folks,
and they will in the future also be coming forward with a final report
on that.
We monitor closely the public transportation operations plan to
make sure -- like I say, we're kind of in the birth stage with our transit
in this area, but we want to make sure that we're getting full potential
out of this and that it is -- it's being run efficiently. And we'll be,
again, updating the transit development plan in the near future to look
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at what we need to look at for this area in the future.
And, again, the long range transportation plan was just adopted
by our MPO board, and it moved the horizon year out to the year
2025. It revisited land-use assumptions, recalculated the
improvement costs, and considered the needs for cost of grade-
separated interchanges in Collier County.
Basically, to wind up, we work very closely with the citizens
and the elected groups and the governments in this area to make sure
that we are getting input for the future in transportation needs for
Collier County area from everyone involved. We want to make sure
that we get the public involved. We're -- we've run into some
problems of getting quorums at meetings and such, and we're doing
everything we can to get out to the neighborhoods and areas that
haven't been involved, what we call the underserved, to make sure
that they are involved.
And, in fact, we met with the Immokalee group the other day,
and one of their suggestions was what would we think of rotating
meetings, basically a traveling road show, and it's something that I
feel if that's what it takes we'll do it. We're going to start holding
meetings in Everglades City, in Immokalee, and in various areas to
make sure that the citizens -- we're going to them. We've waited and
waited and waited for years, and they don't want to be involved.
We want them to be involved, and if we can show them that
their voice will be heard, I think we can make sure that they will be
involved, but we've got to put forth some effort also.
So I will be meeting, again, as I say, with all of the elected
officials to get names and addresses of folks they think I need to get
with to me, and I will be doing everything possible that our staff can
do to get out and meet with these folks and make sure that they
became involved in the transportation planning process.
I'd gladly take any questions.
Page 17
October 16, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Robert, on the unified work
plan, first item on there is, "Two land use density reduction
investigations." What's that all about?
MR. HERRINGTON: Basically, we're working with our
transportation division in looking at the land use, how it's used and
make sure that we are consistent with what's being done with land
use to make sure transportation is being consistent with what's
happening with the land use in the future.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You mean what's on the ground
or --
MR. HERRINGTON: What's on the ground and what is in the
future. We, basically, look at future populations, and that's how we
develop our long-range transportation plans.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So it has nothing to do with
density reduction; it's just --
MR. HERRINGTON: It -- discussions have taken place from
what I understand in this area. Where those discussions have gone,
I'm not sure. Maybe Mr. Feder could speak to them or Ms. Wolfe
from the planning division.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I know the previous board was
looking at density reduction within the urban area, and I don't know if
that's a part of it or not.
MS. WOLFE: Dawn Wolfe, Transportation Planning Director.
In the past several years, there have been evaluations conducted
regarding reductions in land-use densities to determine what their
impacts would be to our long-range transportation needs. The
scenarios which have been looked at were included in the 2025 long-
range plan update recently. There was a significant reduction of that
25-year buildout, so it was reflected in our long-range plan.
The original buildout for 2025 was over $500,000. The current
Page 18
October 16, 2001
long-range plan looks at the buildout to the year 2025 to 453,000, so
we are looking at the changes in our densities as well as the issues
with the rural land assessments which don't permit at this point in
time an intensification of the lands out in the rural areas. So those
former evaluations have been incorporated, and we continue to look
at what the implications are to rezonings and changing development
patterns on an annual basis and under our major update.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That is great that we are
planning for the true needs in Collier County with our transportation.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You opened up -- you opened up a
good subject. As -- as you were speaking about it, I was wondering,
Tom, do you think you could ever schedule some kind of a workshop
or something where all of us commissioners can talk together about
this as well as have presentation, because we're well aware that they
-- they -- the less density we have the more urban sprawl we create.
We also drive up the prices for homes, and it limits us as far as
affordable housing goes for the future, and we have to think about
those things. So I was wondering if we could ever sit down. I mean,
being that Tom brought the subject up, and it's a great subject, I'll just
expand on it and see if we couldn't talk about it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, what's wrong with
talking about it right now?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I don't know-- and because this
is a meeting which I think you're correct, Commissioner Fiala, we
have to address, but it's being addressed in several parts of our
workshops.
First of all, if you increase urban density which seems to be part
of the direction if you look out at land use, you can't -- if you
decrease it in the urban areas, you sprawl. You have to put people
somewhere. So I think it's a look at the total -- total picture of this,
and this is one piece, but I think I'm hearing collectively that if you --
Page 19
October 16, 2001
we will have to eventually have to focus on this when we get down to
decisions on rural fringe, rural areas, and that's a big piece that falls
into this. You begin to look at your MPO process, you look at all of
these together and you say, what does it mean at the end of the day?
You have in-fill pieces and if you increase density, how does
that affect affordable housing? There are areas where if you could
increase the densities in certain pieces of land, you would open up
new opportunities for affordable housing which we talked about in
the joint meeting yesterday. These are all issues that when brought
together you need to spend a lot of time looking at that because they
all interlock, and then there's a cause-and-effect relationship.
As Commissioner Henning and Commissioner Fiala are -- are
touching upon this morning -- and I think as we hear the other aspects
of what's going on in the agencies that affect us, we then maybe come
back under -- and I don't know what you would title it, Tom, what
kind of workshop -- we could begin to figure out how we address all
of that together, and I don't know what the timing would need to be.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: When's the concurrency
workshop? Isn't there an AUIR concurrency workshop coming up
soon?
MR. OLLIFF: There is. It's currently scheduled for the end of
this month, October 30th.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No. No. That sounds to me like
a -- the transportation section of the concurrency workshop.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Maybe a window of opportunity.
MR. OLLIFF: Most of these workshops that we've had so far
have been educational in nature, but I do see now that there's
probably an opportunity either through strategic planning or through
some separate workshops that have a whole lot less information being
provided and a whole lot more discussion now with the board to take
some of the information that we've got, and now we know what the
Page 20
October 16, 2001
issues are facing the community, and I'm going to be looking to the
board to be directing us in terms of developing where are the policy
directions you want to see us going now. And I think you've got all
the tools over the course of the last year in your toolbox, and then we
can sit down and figure out where it is this board wants to see us
move.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm glad you said that about
discussion. I'd love to say to Tom, "So how do you feel about this?"
I can't even talk to him. So the only time we can do something like
that is to sit down and -- and actually have discussion. Maybe less
information now and more discussion.
MR. OLLIFF: We will do that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
MR. MUDD: If you -- if you don't have any other questions for
Robert Herrington, our next speaker will be Ananta Nath representing
the Big Cypress Basin and the South Florida Water Management
District.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: As we leave Mr. Herrington, I would
like publicly congratulate him on the manual that he has put together,
the orientation manual, if you please. And if you ever want to know
everything about how an MPO operates, all you have to do is go
through this book, and right there in that book it'll tell you everything
you want to know. But thank you, Bob, for an excellent job of
updating and pulling the pieces together.
MR. HERRINGTON: Also, I have copies of that available for
anybody here that doesn't have one.
Mr. Olliff, I don't think that we've gotten you one yet. I'm going
to make sure its updated before I send it to you, though. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you for your outreach to
the rural parts of Collier County.
MR. OLLIFF: As they're coming onboard, I do want to take a
Page 21
October 16, 2001
moment just to say hats off to
Mr. Herrington. I think he's going to be a tremendous asset to our
MPO and probably will be one of the better MPO coordinators and
directors that we've ever had here. We're really encouraged by what
we've seen.
MR. HERRINGTON: I will try to live up to that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You will. We know it.
MR. MUDD: Ananta Nath.
MR. NATH: Good morning. My name is Ananta Nath, and I
am a senior engineer with chart for the Water Management District
Big Cypress Basin office here in Naples. And this morning I will try
to give a small presentation on the organizational overview of
projects and coordination that we do with Collier County, because we
are pretty much an offshoot of the water management activities of
Collier County.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: How come that picture isn't
showing?
MR. NATH: I provided-- I wanted to do this in the computer
here, but I made a little changes after I sent it to Mr. Mudd, so I'm
going to be doing it here. Is it okay?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Sure.
MR. NATH: Because what I had-- what I have here is a little
chip. I made some changes in the last two slides.
MR. MUDD: It's okay. Let's put it on, and the last two slides
we can do on ELMO. It would help a little bit if we plugged it in.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You get your engineering degree
from where was that?
MR. MUDD: I'm pushing all the right buttons, and I'm getting
nothing. What's going on?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Don't feel bad, Jim, I
sometimes do the same thing.
Page 22
October 16, 2001
MR. MUDD: Well, it's okay. I didn't take the ballping hammer
out. That's the good news.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We have a former
commissioner who knows all about laptops and how they bounce.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I figure I'm going to drop this
laptop before I'm out of here, you know. God forbid.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Hopefully we'll have a backup
so we can prove to somebody that you were innocent.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I promise to bring it in whether
it's crushed or not.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: While we're waiting can you
give us an update on Clarence Tears and how he's doing over
wherever he is?
MR. NATH: Okay. Clarence is
engineer unit, and of course he -- part
weeks every year on his reserve duty,
assignment long before September 11
on Air Force Reserve civil
of his duty he needs to go three
and he was scheduled for this
, so -- and he's somewhere in
Kuwait assigned on a destroyer to the no-fly zone monitoring, and
then if everything goes okay, he should be back on 22nd, but you
never know.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. For our listening
audience, Clarence Tears is the director of Big Cypress Basin, and
he's a sergeant in the U.S. Army Air Force Reserves. He's over there,
we believe, in Saudi Arabia.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Or Kuwait.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's a secret now.
MR. NATH: We don't know because I just communicate with
him by e-mail only.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Let's say he's moving around.
MR. NATH: Okay. Okay. We are -- the Big Cypress Basin
unit of South Florida Water Management District. Who we are and
Page 23
October 16, 2001
what we do. The Big Cypress Basin is one of the two units of the
South Florida Water Management Districts; it's one of two basins.
One is Okeechobee Basin, and the second one is the Big Cypress
Basin, and it was created by the Florida legislature under Chapter 373
of the Florida Statute by 1976 legislature, and it covers all of Collier
County and just a tiny part of Monroe County that's in Everglades
National Park. A five-member basin board that's appointed by the
governor sets policies, plans, and implements projects to achieve its
missions on flood protection, water supply, water quality, and
environmental enhancement.
And presently we operate and maintain 163 miles of primary
canals in Collier County that showed in that map there. All the major
canals of the Golden Gate System then also the canal sides,
Immokalee Canal, 1-75, Airport Road, County Road 951, for total of
163 miles. And we have 44 water control structures that we operate
and maintain under an agreement with Collier County.
MR. OLLIFF: Let me get you to -- to help us as we go along
here. Why don't you explain either between you or John how it was
decided or how the distinction is between what is a major canal
managed by Big Cypress, and then what are the canals that are
managed by the county.
MR. BOLDT: Just, basically, it's the major minor systems.
They have the larger arterials, and we have the collectors. Originally
it was a cubic-feet-per-second limitation placed on it, but I think
we've modified that over the years and we're looking even in the
future maybe there are some major canals out there under county
control that ought to be in this so-called primary system, so it's sort of
arbitrary at this point in time.
MR. OLLIFF: I also want for the board to understand just how
this system sort of overlaps each other in terms of agencies. Beyond
John, then, there's also a drainage system of roadside swales and
Page 24
October 16, 2001
ditches which is not part of John or the Big Cypress, and that is then
managed under our road and bridge department. So when you talk
about drainage and drainage systems that all have to coordinate
together, there's actually three different agencies what are managing
what is the drainage system in Collier County.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I will bequeath my -- my magic
marker colored map that's behind the door in my office.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll take it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You got it. It has colored magic
marker telling you which canals are maintained by which agency.
That was the only way I could get it.
MR. NATH: Okay. In addition to that, there is a parcel system
maintained by the homeowners association or the developments.
Some of those that are coming to us as secondary or the primary
system.
MR. DALTRY: May I ask a question?
MR. NATH: Sure.
MR. DALTRY: There are structures to the east along 1-75 and
U.S. 41 that actually control a lot of water and its management and its
flow and its direction. Who maintains that? MR. NATH: 1-75 ditch--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: For the record, Wayne, you need to
identify --
MR. DALTRY: I'm sorry. Apologize.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: For the record, Wayne Daltry.
MR. NATH: 1-75 is maintained, which is maintained by Florida
DOT.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, another player enters.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: About five layers.
MR. NATH: Of course, there's also 1-75 ditch North, South 1-75
ditch between Golden Gate Main Canal, and Immokalee Road that
Page 25
October 16, 2001
we maintain. So it's --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Government at its best.
MR. DALTRY: I have one more. Do the Seminoles have some
water management going on in the northeast comer of Collier County
and the Water Management District proper?
MR. NATH: There is another whole segment between East
Collier County and North Hendry County that's some are maintained
by the tribes, and then of course they eventually connect to the center
and South Florida environmental system. Okay. Basically our
programs at this time are -- the first one is basin works acquisition
and administration; that's we can interlocal agreement with the
county that we operate and maintain those.
Then we do monitor the water levels, rainfall flows all
throughout the county. There's a very agressive program on that. We
cooperate that with the county.
Then long range and short-term water management planning,
that we do -- we have a staff here of three engineers, two engineering
technicians, and we coordinate with the districts planning
organization to assist us on those. Then we do have the operation and
maintenance program where, you know, day-to-day operation of
keeping the conveyance capacity of the canals, taking care of the
weeds, maintaining the water infrastructures for their big conveyance
capacity.
Then another important program is the capital improvement and
construction program, because over the years the system that was --
that we have now it was not basically, you know, aimed for flood
control but was just developed ditch and drain concept drainage
system and does not have the level of service required for plant
protection, so we are slowly improving those. And then also at the
same time to reduce our drainage by those canals we are building
little small structures over the years for last 22 years. So that's all
Page 26
October 16, 2001
included under the capital improvement program.
Then we have the local government assistance and cooperation.
We have -- I'll mention later -- about 17 projects that we do work
with the county on almost a day-to-day basis and also other cities,
City of-- City of Marco Island, City of Naples, Everglades City, and
then the Immokalee area. We do provide assistance on those projects
and then water conservation education and public awareness program
that we have a full-time public -- public relations person that does
that kind of program with public and the Collier County public
schools.
I will cover more on those later. Those are basic -- the
challenges here, the growth -- tremendous growth in the county that
needed those things on flood protection, water supply, maintenance
and water quality, local government. And then, also, now a very
important project we do as a part of the Comprehensive Everglades
Restoration Plan we have three projects that we, you know,
coordinate with the sponsor, federal sponsor, Army Corps of
Engineers, you will mention those.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: May I just ask a question? Who
maintains the canals in Port-o-Prince? They are just --
MR. NATH: Port-o-Prince or Port of Dice?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Port-o-Prince.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's out near Marco, and it's
probably --
MR. OLLIFF: Halfway down 951 on the south or east side of
the road.
(Chairman Carter leaves meeting.)
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Could be a private utility?
MR. BOLDT: Basically it's a private system. There's dedicated
easements in there. There's no responsibility for the county to
maintain those. Unfortunately, I don't believe they have a
Page 27
October 16, 2001
homeowners association. It's one of these no-man lands that we
have.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right. And they're -- and they're
loaded with silt and -- and exotics. We found that what's happening
is their -- their sewer -- sewer areas is flooding over and onto the
land, right on their land. Plus the canals are stopped up, and they're
having a lot of flooding problems. And so far everybody's pointing
the finger at somebody else, but nobody's solving the problem, and
we're going to get the problem solved. I'm just going to haul in
everybody I can to get that problem solved, and you'll probably be
one, John.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: There you go, John.
MR. BOLDT: I'm looking forward to it.
MR. NATH: Presently--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Not you.9
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That old civic activism in you.
MR. NATH: Okay. As I mentioned before, the flood protection
is one -- in terms of priority, number one. So I'm showing here the
before and after picture of Immokalee Road Canal, what it used to be
before just a border ditch with weed growing, just a small capacity,
and then we enhanced to about 45 feet bottom with two to one sides,
and at the top we add about 80 feet and all the side drains and water
control structures.
Okay. Then second one is water supply planning and then also
true regulation. You know, I do know recurring drought conditions
over the years, you know, and then also the draw-down of the
aquifers has in many cases, you know, affecting saltwater intrusion in
-- there's potential of saltwater intrusion, and that's why we have the
saltwater barrier along the main outpost like in Golden Gate main
canal, Cocohatchee Canal, Henderson Creek, and then also State
Road 29 system. And then we're working with the county utilities on
Page 28
October 16, 2001
issues like aquifers storage and recovery, research, and also
demonstration projects on those.
And water quality is another big issue. We presently we do
have a water-quality monitoring program through a cooperative
agreement which the county supports and control department where
we cooperatively monitor water quality. Also that inland water
system and then also a supplemental of that we have contact with
Florida International University does -- that does water-quality
monitoring to inter estuary system from Cape Romano to
Caloosahatchee River.
(Chairman Carter returns.)
MR. NATH: And then, of course, now with the growth the
traditional flow-ways have been damaged, and that's where most of
our impacts are. That when the historic flow-ways, you know, are
eliminated by roads and development, the prehistoric sheet flow to
the estuaries has been cut off and that's why we have too much fresh
water in some areas of the estuaries and too little in some areas of the
estuaries. So we are, you know, as a part of our -- all of our works
try to minimize those true interconnecting of the canal system and
also making sheet flow interlocking of the Tamiami Trail. We have a
new project that will have additional culverts under U.S. 41 to mimic
the sheet flow that's going to the Ten Thousand Island, the estuaries.
And then we have -- that's one of the particular construction
projects, and second one is the Lecture for Restoration which we
have got funds from the federal government and also the county's
Tourist Development Council and then also some grass-roots funding
from the planning trader we are just going -- making grounds for
(inaudible) construction by November 16th.
Then the watershed management planning that's the basis of all
of those doing the engineering work, and for the first time we are
doing original watershed approach so that -- because the whole
Page 29
October 16, 2001
western Collier County is pretty much one watershed and we trying
to restore the sheet flow. And then also the drainage problem. We
have to look at as composite watershed and we're just finishing that
planning and that in that system we evaluated entire system of canals
and water control structures which we found that almost -- only 29
percent of the primary canals are inadequate to provide the level of
service of protection at this time. And so we have plans now doing
alternative water management studies, and those projects are being
incorporated into the five-year planning process. And then also we
are partnering with general -- federal local partnership study which
Southwest Florida Feasibility Study which Kelly is going to speak
about in more detail later.
Hydromonitoring that we mentioned, we have measured water
levels at 48 locations and 15 rainfall stations, and then we cooperate
with U.S. Geological Survey to monitor ground water. Then also we
cooperate with the developers who are -- they are required to monitor
water levels on their lakes and underground water and then we
coordinate those also. And now about 20 stations we do -- we try do
towers and telemetry work.
Public outreach, as I mentioned before, the water conservation is
mainly so that new population that moves into this area coming from
not -- not be used to the Florida type of environment to where, you
know, it changes from drought to different drought to drought within
weeks, so to get water conservation education we have a program.
Then also knowing the residents on how to enter system of flow from
their developments through the secondary system to the main canals
work. That's a know-the-flow program. Then and the program on
helping the urban ecosystem people like homeowners us -- we have a
program with USDA's necessary conservation service to do urban
mobile irrigation lab.
Then in the school program work with all the schools in Collier
Page 30
October 16, 2001
County, and then also now we have a research and monitoring
database with this huge comprehensive data that provides all the
comprehensive database, so everyone can look at what goes in the
county in terms of research and monitoring with all cooperating
agencies that's at every level in the web.
And some of the recently completed projects that I'm showing in
here, last four years we completed eight miles of channel
improvement to Cochatchee Canal, four new water control structures
there, and then the next four miles of canals on Immokalee Road
Canal all just beginning this week we have noticed the (inaudible)
tractor provided. They will be working on that segment of canal
between the rock quarry just east of 951 all the way to the bend in
Immokalee Road near OrangeTree.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Who all handles weirs -- just you
handle all of the weirs?
MR. NATH: All the major ones.
MR. BOLDT: In the primary and major systems of the Big
Cypress Basin, I have about a dozen smaller weirs that we operate,
the various types with logs and gates, but they handle all the primary
ones up, particularly up in Golden Gate in this space here.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So -- so do you, John, handle the
weirs in East Naples when we're having a flooding problem out there,
I mean, in a heavy rain?
MR. BOLDT: Well, there are very few in the East Naples at
this point in time, but those that are there they're under our county
jurisdiction.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you.
MR. NATH: Okay. The bottom picture is showing we had to
reduce some of our egress from the Florida Panther National Refuge.
We worked with U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in a cooperative
funding. They provided us some plants, and then we built the
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October 16, 2001
structure last year. That's one -- showing that one on Golden Gate
Estates.
Of course, as I mentioned about carrying a five-year
improvement programs, it's coming on the next one. This year we
will be working on improving County Road 951 between 846 and
Vanderbilt Beach Road. Then we just started, as I say, Cocohatchee
Canal Phase 4 as started already and then will be retrofitting the
Golden Gate Canal, the main outpost structure by the Bear's Paw
Country Club west of Airport Road. That structure has been there
since 1964 or so, so it's more than 35 years old, and it needs
replacement. So we will be building that pretty soon. So we got all
the permits, then construction be up, and so within the next month or
so we should be breaking grounds there.
Then another -- the Faka Union Canal just east county where the
Naples City well fields there, that structure needs replacement, and
we'll be doing that one because that's a very important structure for
recharging the aquifer of City of Naples. And then, as I mentioned,
Lake Trafford Restoration we start-- we be breaking grounds in
November.
And then presently we have about 17 projects under cooperative
agreement and contract with the county. First one, Lely Area
Stormwater Management Master Plan. John, we've been doing this
for many years, this one, and it's about done in permitting and
probably -- we're probably seeing the end of the tunnel pretty soon.
MR. BOLDT: We're going to have some good news very soon.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No kidding.
MR. BOLDT: Just as you're leaving.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah, perfect. Great, but that's
great news.
MR. NATH: Okay. And Gordon River Basin Improvement.
It's a tri-party agreement between the city, county, and us. That's -- I
Page 32
October 16, 2001
think these design -- design phase so called.
MR. BOLDT: They're in the modeling and design phase and,
again, the commissioners are going to hear more about that in the
near future also.
MR. NATH: And then we just completing -- just completed, I
will say, the topograph-- topographic mapping for Belle Meade; that
means heading up Henderson Creek and going all the way to Golden
Gate -- North Golden Gate, that part we're done -- just the mapping
of those so that we have detailed topographic map.
Then other cooperative funding like where we pay 50 percent
funding, like one is the Gateway Triangle Stormwater Facilities
Improvement.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Boy, does that need it desperately.
MR. NATH: So that's being done. The Boat Haven Canal just
east of that and the west of that some tideflex valves for that, the new
system of valves that can do both way.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's a real good improvement.
MR. NATH: So that's just completed. Haldeman Creek Area
Stormwater Pollutant Separators. That's a new system of the CDS
valves that we put near the shopping centers there.
MR. BOLDT: South of Gulfgate along Bayshore Road.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I don't understand what stormwater
pollutant separators are.
MR. NATH: That's pollutants that from around through parking
lots, and all of that's going through the storm drain that goes to
Haldeman Creek.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What is the separator?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. I don't know how you
separate --
MR. BOLDT: There's -- there's various devices. The one we
used in that particular case is called the CDS unit, and it has a
Page 3 3
October 16, 2001
swirling effect that separates out all the floatables, the plastic cups
and all the debris, and captures it. And we can go in and remove it
out before it's discharged in, in this case, into Haldeman Creek.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Even -- even the -- the oil and
grease that were on a parking lot, it discharges --
MR. BOLDT: It has that capability, but that particular one
doesn't have it yet. We're going to be installing a little bit later.
We're going to put some emulsion logs in that will absorb those sorts
of things, but this is -- this place is going -- leading-edge technology,
not quite there getting the perfect separator.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Kind of like the strainer that strains
off the big stuff, but the other pollutants are still there. But you're
going to change that when?
MR. BOLDT: Real soon. There's other types of devices that
are on the market we're going to be trying also. There's a whole
bunch of new brand names appearing because of this national
pollution discharge elimination system requirements. This has
become a real hot topic, and you'll be hearing more about different
types of devices coming on the market.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm sorry.
MR. NATH: That's all right. No, that's a good question. And
then in Immokalee, the farm workers village, that entrance leads to
there, that culvert is very undersized culvert, and it is blocking water,
flooding the farm workers village, so we brought about 50 percent of
funding for that culvert, and so that's done.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So the farm worker village is
finished?
MR. NATH: Yes. Then Broken Back Road that meets 951
Extension, when 951 goes over the ditch on Immokalee Road ditch,
that bridge which was a very undersized one, so we replaced that one
with a properly volume account. Then you must have heard about
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October 16, 2001
Cocohatchee Canal, 846 four-laning that we had a little problem with
the water, the runoff from there going to that canal and eroding the
bank, so we caught it before the final section is done. So we are
working with the county to get that intersects of road between 1-75
and 951 the whole canal bent onward so it doesn't narrow the banks.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's off of Immokalee Road right
there, eh?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: My understanding is that we're
fixing that, not Naples.
MR. NATH: We're paying half a million dollars.
MR. BOLDT: Cost sharing.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We're paying $3 million and
you're paying half a million. I understand.
MR. NATH: Okay. Then, as I said, County Road 951 culverts
and utility crossing. In that segment of canal between 846 and
Vanderbilt Beach Road has 11 little culverts that is put over the
years, very undersized, so we will be replacing those and improving
the canal. And then under cooperate agreement we have with county
pollution control department monitoring inland water quality.
Then in terms of the water supply of North County Regional
Wastewater Pilot ASR study -- for all the controversy you have heard
about the City of Naples, you know, not agreeing with the ASR study
at that location, so we finally removed that to Livingston Road
Corridor that we're putting in there. And Manatee Road, the south
plant ASR facility that's under operation. Then the reclaimed water
distribution system, we're helping on that, on designing that. Then
we're using your radio tower for telemetric data collection through
property agreement.
Then Tourist Development Council's revenue on the Lake
Trafford restoration. And the last but not the least that we have -- we
renew every ten year the operation and maintenance agreement with
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October 16, 2001
the county to operate the primary canals and water control structures
under those legal requirements.
Then opportunities coming in -- at least we think about enhance
coordination of primary secondary facilities that, you know, we work
day-to-day basis with John and probably -- and we'll keep working on
those, and maybe there's some enhancement on those. And, then, we
appreciate the county's cooperation on ecosystem restoration projects
like South Golden Gate and hope to improve on projects like those.
And continue research on things like ASR. We just lifted the
first two restrictions, and then county -- this county is doing awfully
good setup. When other counties had first restrictions, we had little --
lower restriction in here but modified Phase 1 so we want to, you
know, work on those later. And, in fact, have been talking to the
county over the years to provide at least a permanent daytime
watering ban between 9 a.m. And 5 p.m. And then, our last governing
board when they lift it, the water restriction they say at least if county
cooperate to make the permanent maximum three days maximum,
days lawn watering, and all local governments will coordinate on
those activity levels.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Question. On drip irrigation,
it's still open where a person can use the drip irrigation without
having to fall within this particular criteria, what days of the week
and all that?
MR. NATH: I think so.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know some people have gone
to a great expense to do this, and what you're telling me is -- it's
important that they be able to water every day and they use very
minimal amounts directed right to the roots of the plant, and they
were concerned that there might be something in the works about
changing this particular ordinance.
MR. NATH: I'll find out and let you know because I'm -- Okay.
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October 16, 2001
And then I had two other ones that after I --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: While he's going to the next slide,
while we're on water conservation, I continually notice that after a
rainstorm or during a rainstorm certain sprinkler systems continue to
go off in a lot of communities, and it seems to me that's true in an
incentive process that we could have people put on sensors. It's, like,
a $75 item you put on your roof and it stops -- it rains, your system
doesn't go on any more. It just applies to major users like condos to
homeowners, and we've got some hogs on water, and I happen to live
in a community that's a water hog. And I think it's time to, A, if it's
$75, we give you an opportunity to -- to do that and not have to -- and
there may be some incentives there in the rate structure coming up --
and I won't go there. Mr. Mudd, I'd leave that to you, but I think it's
-- you know, we worry about people watering three days a week. I
am more concerned about systems that go off when it's pouring down
rain. So I think maybe there's an opportunity incentive and get a
simple thing like a sensor on a roof to stop the process.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You know, I'd like to add
something to that. I'm glad you brought that up, Jim. I had a
constituent write and ask me about road sensors -- I mean, sensors,
water sensors in the medians. And I've been trying to search that out,
and I'm not getting a direct answer. I'm -- I'm getting a shade of an
answer, but I'm not getting a direct answer, and I would -- I would
really like to know what we're doing about sensors in the medians.
MR. MUDD: Let me help a little bit. Jim Mudd, Deputy
County Manager, old public utilities administrator. In March you
told us to -- to do a couple of things as far as water conservation was
concerned. First, is to come up with an irrigation ordinance, and
we're working on that over in the water department. Second, was to
come up with a retrofit rain gauge system for the county so we can go
in over -- envisioned over a three-year period of time where we go
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October 16, 2001
back in to the older sprinkler systems in the county and retrofit them
or give them an opportunity to retrofit to a rain gauge.
We can order it in mass quantities, retrofit them at a reduced rate
because of the volume of-- of rain gauges that we'd order and then
have the customer pay that back over three installments on a water
bill. And last but not least is those irrigation systems on medians and
things like that where there's central control to see if we can't retrofit
those systems with a rain gauge that would make it sensitive to how
much water has -- has -- has just fallen from the sky.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So what you're saying is we're
planning on doing it, but we don't yet have it implemented for the
medians?
MR. MUDD: That's right, ma'am. We don't have it yet. We
have to come back to the board with that program to get the
authorization. We're going through the research right now, getting
the information as far as distributors are concerned, and making sure
we have the work force in order to do that or if we have to contract it
out with a private agency.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: This is the first direct answer I've
had. Okay. Second question, then -- thank you very much. Second
question is I notice that at times the sprinklers go on in the medians
when it's raining, and I was -- I'm sorry, during the day and we're
trying to ask residents not to water during the day. Why are we
watering the medians?
MR. MUDD: Ma'am, if it's a reclaimed water system, you're
getting rid of the product that's coming out of the sewer system, so I'd
have to know which median we're talking about in this particular
case. Is it on a potable system, or is it on a reclaimed system?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, okay.
MR. MUDD: On a reclaimed system, that'll -- that'll go on
automatically, and they're not under the water restrictions because
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October 16, 2001
they're providing a service and at the same time they're getting a
reduced rate on the water.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But what about evaporation. I
mean, I don't care if it's reclaimed water or potable water, if we're
watering the medians during the day, you've still got that evaporation
going on.
MR. MUDD: Yes -- yes, ma'am. We only have so much
storage capability for the reclaimed water. I mean, the ponds in your
neighborhood only can fill up so much before they have to start
irrigating and if-- if they don't irrigate at least get some of it into the
ground, then I take that reclaimed water down a deep injection well
never to be seen again. So you have a choice to get part of it to
reclaim the aquifer or you lose it, and it's a dilemma that we do have
because no matter if it's raining or not people are still using their
plumbing.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's absolutely right.
So, in other words, even -- it's okay to water the medians during the
day; it's just --
MR. MUDD: If it's reclaimed water and so -- and we've asked
some of the reclaimed customers to be a little more conscious about
when they water to see if they could water during the hours --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm not talking about customers.
I'm just talking about us; county roads, you know, medians.
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am. But there are some medians on the
reclaimed system. Norm.
MR. FEDER: Jim, if I could. Commissioner, the other part of
that is we'll be coming back to you with an automated system
allowing us to be in a position to more efficiently regulate that
median landscaping watering.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay.
MR. FEDER: So you're going to have a solar-powered system
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October 16, 2001
that we're going to be bringing to you.
up across the whole county.
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
about it because of appearances.
It's something that we can set
That's great. I was just talking
You know, we're telling people,
"You can't water your lawns during the day," yet we're watering our
lawn during the day, and I just thought -- oh, well --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think, Commissioner Fiala, that's an
excellent point, and thank you. It just triggered off-- I was going
after residential, which I see in many of the communities are --
whether on reclaimed or not -- it's -- to me it's an issue, and sensors
would solve the problem, and it's in a community in which I live. If
they can't afford $75 to control the water, then I think they have more
problems than that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I would like to see us do
something good like the City of Naples does is in their medians they
use reclaimed water. They have a sign out there that says,
"Reclaimed Water Recycled Water." And it would help our citizens
to know that that is a different source than what they're using, plus it
shows that we are good stewards of the -- of the land by recycling
and using those products.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Excellent idea.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think that's great, Commissioner. I
mean, it's nothing -- I don't think we'll get hammered on educating
the public on that, but I don't know. Let no good deed go
unpunished. So we'll do our best to put it out there and let folks
know what we're doing.
MR. MUDD: And then the other -- the other piece is an
inverted water scale for bills. The more you use the more you pay,
and we'll come back to the board with that on the 27th of November.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir.
MR. OLLIFF: And, then, just so the board knows, I think your
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October 16, 2001
parks are probably a larger water user than all your medians
combined, and your parks have already gone retrofitted, to my
knowledge, all of the parks at this point. So they have rain sensored
gauges already in all of those systems, and we've converted all to
effluent that are and have available effluent lines near the parks.
MR. NATH: Impact on Collier County is the number one
recycled water user in Florida.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, that is good.
MR. NATH: I have last slide here for feasibility opportunities.
One, we are cooperating with John to you know at looking at
feasibility of adopting State Road 29 Canal as "Works of the Basin,"
because that is one of the major system and then also the Lely --
implementing the Lely Canal is completed we will be concentrating
taking that responsibility of adopting and maintaining that canal and
water conserve system.
That's basically my presentation. Of course, we -- as I said, I
work day to day with your folks, John Boldt and then also folks in
(inaudible) control and utilities. And if we are doing anything good
on these lion's share up there, its credit goes to John and those folks.
MR. OLLIFF: Just a quick question. Could you explain to them
briefly what you issue permits for, because I'm not sure that that got
covered, and I think it's good for the board to understand what Big
Cypress issues permits for in Collier County.
MR. NATH: As you know, the three levels of permits that is
administered by the Water Management District, one is called
Cypress Water Management Permit that means for your stormwater,
say, when you develop a property to -- the rule is that due to typical
topographic and then features of South Florida and also the wetland
necessary up or landscape, and also the sensitive aquifers that we
have. If we draw down more, the saltwater interferes from the gulf
can move in, so provide safeguard for all those we do, you know,
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October 16, 2001
regulate the Cypress Water and Management Regulations for all new
developments. That's done at West Palm Beach, the Cypress Water
Management.
And then the second one is Water Use Permit, this is for
withdrawal of water so that you -- we monitor those so that you can
withdraw water to supplement not impacting users that has been
permitted before and then also not impacting the future water user,
maintain the fill of the aquifers, then also at the same time not
impacting the environment. So that's water use that's done also by
the water use division of the Water Management District.
The only thing we do permit here, the Big Cypress Basin, is the
right-of-way permit on whoever want to use the right-of-way of the
canals for, like, crossing the canals by bridges or -- or any work in
that easement or right-of-way of the canals or putting a pipe to
withdraw water from that canal. We regulate that segment locally
here.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Would you like to summarize that for
me, Tom, so I make sure I understand what they're doing here.
MR. OLLIFF: Well, I need to get him to clarify one -- one other
thing for water use permits. For example, I know you don't issue -- I
don't believe you issue single-family water use.
MR. NATH: No. Two-inch pipes in Collier County we don't --
that's part of your -- when you people go for new building permit,
that's a part of it.
MR. OLLIFF: Okay. And for surface water is there an acreage?
MR. NATH: It's 40 acres.
MR. BOLDT: The Water Management District has delegated to
Collier County the authority to issue permits on projects less than 40
acres. Anything over that is Water Management District issues it,
and we have a joint review. But less than 40 acres, unless there's
some wetlands involved, they delegated that authority to Collier
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October 16, 2001
County.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you.
MR. OLLIFF: So the only other policy question I wanted to ask
was has there been any consideration to -- especially for water-use
permits from the Big Cypress or South Water Water Management
District to consider for -- especially those larger users, whether it be
future agricultural uses, future golf course development uses, to force
larger users to a different aquifer other than the Tamiami aquifer
which seems to be the one that gets stressed so much here during the
dry season?
MR. NATH: Exactly. If you have been -- and at least county
staff, Mark Spitz, over the years we have a program called Water
Supply Planning -- the Lower West Coast Water Supply Planning and
we update every, I think, four years. Mr. Daltry, is it every four years
the water supply planning updates?
MR. DALTRY: Supposed to be every five.
MR. NATH: Every five, so as a part of that, you know-- as you
know, the Lower Tamiami Aquifer where we get most of our
drinking water supply comes from, it's been stressed to its -- almost
to its limits now. New permits that, you know, are coming getting
very careful not to connect to Lower Tamiami Aquifer.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Now that you've said that, I've read
someplace in one of these things that crosses my desk that we are
stretched to the limit on that aquifer but that we had more water in the
State of Florida than all of the water in the Great Lakes -- is that true
-- underground?
MR. NATH: Depend on aquifers. Say -- we take the first 20
feet -- first 20, 30 feet what we call the water table aquifer that, you
know, recharges the lakes, your canals, and those kind of stuff and
then some, you know, very limited use of that for ecosystem. Then
buildup, there's a confining layer-- confining or semi-confining --
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October 16, 2001
some may be semi-confining and build that up to 150 feet, that's
where this part, we call it Lower Tamiami, that's where our drinking
water comes from. And that's recharged by rainfall and then seepage
from other canals and lakes and stuff.
So that's being stressed quite a bit, and that's why county's going
to aquifers like upper and mid aquifers where you are going up there
300 feet or so and bringing that water. That water needs more
treatment because those are brackish water, so those are being treated
with new technology like reverse osmosis and county's botis plants
now, county's North Treatment Plant is going in that and also
extension of that on the dirt plant is going for hot the (inaudible)
aquifers.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But, what was -- I'm sorry, what
was the answer? Is it --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No. His answer is no. Well, if
you count the Gulf of Mexico, yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No. They were -- whatever I read
and -- and I saved it because I wanted to refer to it at some point in
time -- said that there was a great deal of water, you know, under the
State of Florida. It's just that we had to clean it right and with reverse
osmosis as well as --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Desalinization.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, desalinization. We would
never have -- thank you very much -- we would never have a
problem, just with the water that we have in our aquifers. Is that the
truth?
MR. OLLIFF: I've seen that too. I've seen information that says
the combined aquifers under the State of Florida are larger than the
amount of water of the five Great Lakes combined and that as a total
percentage of actual water coming into the state versus how much the
state uses, it's probably about 6 or 7 percent of the total amount of
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October 16, 2001
water coming into Florida that we actually use, including agricultural
use SO ...
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm so glad you said that.
I was beginning to think I -- I was dreaming it. Okay.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We got to be careful of all that. I
think Mr. Daltry will have some comments on that as we get down in
the program this morning --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Good.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- because the reality of what volume
of water exists versus what's usable and accessible and practical, et
cetera, et cetera, is a far different picture so ...
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's what we need to hear.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Before we get too far, I've got a
couple things on my list for the Big Cypress Basin. One is, working
with a constituent in the Oakes Boulevard area and because of the
map I see that is your canal -- MR. NATH: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: WCI Communities who is
developing Tarpon Bay has improved an area on 20th Avenue
Southwest, and so the concern is -- and rightly so -- the level of the
control structure on the ditch that -- that's draining into the canal, I
would like for you to take a look at it and make sure it's at the right
height. It appears to me and my constituent that it's too high in not
allowing the land to drain properly. And also on 20th they are
improving the drainage area, and they got a long way to go, but if you
need to sign off on that, I want you to take a look at that very closely.
And, John, I think that we need you too. We need to make sure
that we're not creating a problem for the residents in the Oakes
Boulevard area.
Another thing, during Hurricane or Tropical Storm Gabrielle,
I -- I rode around in a lot of areas and even in East Naples taking a
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October 16, 2001
look at where we have the problems in that, the Golden Gate Canal
that runs east and west and the D-2/I-75 Canal runs north and south
except for where it hooks up into the Golden Gate Canal it actually
bends to the east.
Now, from what I seen the flow on that 1-75 canal
was not moving where the -- where the Golden Gate Canal was
rushing. In my opinion -- and I hope that you would take a look at
this -- it actually is holding back areas of draining Golden Gate, the
Vineyards and so on and so forth. That is the 1-75 canal stormwater
drainage is -- is huge through the area that it does drain. So my
feeling is we don't want the same thing that happened in 19 -- I think
it was '84 or -- we had a lot of flooding. MR. NATH: '83, uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: John Boldt, that's when we first
met.
MR. NATH: I came the following year. I remember that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's when I sandbagged my
house to protect it, and we understood it was going to be fixed, and
now I kind of question after that experience of taking a look at
Gabrielle.
MR. NATH: That incident never happened. It was '83, of
course, at the time that canals were -- had too much weed there.
There is not very aggressive weed control operation at that time. So
that improved quite a bit. But still I know there is 1-75 canal needs
improvement.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. So I hear you say it does
need to be fixed.
MR. NATH: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. I want to thank you, and
please don't forget the Oakes Boulevard, WCI, Tarpon Bay.
MR. NATH: That's your 1-75, number three Vanderbilt Beach
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October 16, 2001
structure there.
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, I know we're a little behind
schedule, but I think we need to take a very short break, if we can,
just to give --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Give the minutes a rest.
MR. NATH: Thank you very much for all your cooperation.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir.
MR. OLLIFF: Thank you.
(Short break taken.)
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, our next speaker is Kelly Unger.
She's planning technical leader. She works in the regualatory
department of the Jacksonville District of the Corps of Engineers, and
she's going to tell us a little bit about what the Corps does.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Welcome.
MS. UNGER: Thank you very much. Can you hear me okay?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes. You're doing fine. Thank you.
MS. UNGER: Well, thank you and thanks for that introduction,
Mr. Mudd. It's not quite correct. I am with the planning division. I
used to be with regulatory, don't want to be associated with them
anymore.
(Laughter.)
MS. UNGER: I am in the planning division.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We feel immediately more
comfortable. Thank you.
MS. UNGER: I serve as the planning technical leader for the
Southwest Florida Feasibility Study and also for the C-43 Basin
Storage Reservoir Project, and I appreciate the opportunity to be here
this morning. I am here for Colonel Greg May who is our district
commander and was unable to attend.
The United States Army Corps of Engineers is the federal
government's largest water resources development agency. Our civic
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October 16, 2001
works mission began in the early 19th century with navigation
improvements on the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers. Various
legislative acts and administrative policies created since then and up
to as recently as last year give the Corps its jurisdiction.
The Corps' presence in Florida precedes its statehood. During
the 1820s engineers conducted surveys of the region for roads and a
proposed canal connecting the Atlantic Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico.
The Corps has also been involved with the St. Johns River as far as
back as 1853 and with Tampa Harbor back to 1880. Beginning in
1948 the district constructed major sections of the Central and
Southern Florida Flood Control Project. That effort continues today
and, in just a moment, I will discuss a little more about that project.
The Corps is organized geographically into eight divisions
within the U.S. And 41 subordinate districts throughout the U.S.,
Europe, and Asia. Our divisions and districts are defined by
watershed boundaries as opposed to by state boundaries. The Corps
is made up of-- made up of approximately 34,600 civilian and 650
military men and women. Jacksonville is one of five districts within
the South Atlanta Division which is headquartered in Atlanta, and
with approximately 800 employees the Jacksonville District is one of
the largest civil works districts within the Corps of Engineers.
This map represents the many area offices we have throughout
the state all the way from Pensacola down to Marathon. Many of
these offices are co-located with our partners and our customers, such
as the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, the South
Florida Water Management District, and the Environmental
Protection Agency.
The Jacksonville District's mission is simple and shared with
other Corps districts and divisions throughout Europe, Asia, and the
U.S. The Corps provides quality planning, engineering, construction,
and operation products and services to meet the needs of the nation.
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October 16, 2001
Our military and civilian engineers, scientists, and other specialists
work hand in hand as leaders in engineering and environmental
matters.
We have a work force, a very diverse work force of biologists,
engineers, geologists, hydrologists, natural resource managers,
economists, and other professionals that fulfill the district's mission.
You can see from this long list of customers that we have many
customers, partners, and local sponsors. There are many
opportunities for a county agency, such as yourself, to work with and
use the services of the Corps.
From my own experience in working on the Everglades
Restoration Project which, again, I will discuss in just a moment, and
from talking to other Corps project managers, I understand that
Collier County is involved in the development of many projects that
affect the county or are located in the county. Many of the CERP
projects or Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Projects are
specifically what I'm talking about. Through continued participation
on our various project delivery teams, the interest and desires of the
county will be represented to the larger teams and then ultimately in
the final project, so we certainly encourage you to keep participating
in that manner.
Two of the ways in which we authorize projects and partner
with our non-federal agencies are through general investigations and
continuing authority programs. As you can see, the general
investigation funding is for larger more complex projects that are
specifically authorized studies or named studies. Because project
construction requires specific Congressional authorization, projects
under this authority generally take five to seven years to get from
study initiation to the start of project construction.
Congressional authorization is a very complex project -- process
that I don't have time to detail this morning. So I'll just oversimplify
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October 16, 2001
it by stating that basically a local agency, such as Collier County, or
some other non-federal agency would lobby Congress, to support a
study, the Corps would perform the study, write a report. The report
would go back to Congress and if it is feasible and appropriate, then
the project would be funded for design and construction. And I know
I made that sound probably somewhat simple; it truly is not a simple
process. It's very laborious.
But, on the other hand, we do have a much easier and; therefore,
sometimes desirable process in our Continuing Authority Program.
Continuing Authority Program is a group of legislative authorities by
which the Corps can proceed to construction without further
Congressional authorization. The program is, of course, reserved for
smaller, less complex projects, but it is an effective method for
authorizing these projects.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Excuse me. Then who makes that
decision as to whether you can fund it or not? MS. UNGER: Under?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Under the smaller projects. I mean,
being that they don't have to go to Congress or anything, who makes
that decision?
MS. UNGER: The Corps makes that decision. You come to the
Corps -- and I'm gonna give you a name, actually, of someone you
can contact who has more information about that -- runs -- kind of, is
an expert on that program, and they can give you all the criteria and
lay that out and let you know whether or not your proposal meets one
of our categories.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, I will tell you that the Corps --
Corps makes that decision, but I'm telling you there's a lot of political
pressure, and there has to be political support from congressmen and
senators for that particular project as it, kind of, bubbles up on that
priority list. This is an authority that's given to the chief of engineers
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October 16, 2001
by Congress so that he can do projects within a two-year period of
time.
It's kind of like a congressional election window, okay,
specifically for those congressmen to push those particular items. So
if you had a project that was small and -- and basically it's -- it's
under $2 million -- most of them are under a million for a particular
project-- then you'd be able to get it. Now, every one of those
projects are cost share. Normal cost share right now is 65 percent
federal, 35 percent local in that process. But you have to have a
political backer in order to move those projects.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Are there lesser-- excuse me. Are
there lesser projects, Jim? I'm thinking of one that came up because I
sat in a meeting in terms of dealing with the Vanderbilt Estuary, and
there was this piping and pumping kind of thing. They said the Corps
for X number of dollars because it was under a certain limit could
approve that at the Jacksonville authority, and would that fall outside
of this election year cycle or how --
MR. MUDD: No. It doesn't have to be an election-year cycle;
just when you get the continuing authorities it's a two-year -- it's a
two-year process. You don't have to go into the significant study nor
design as -- it's a quick process, and it falls within one of those
continuing authorities, and that's exactly what they were talking
about getting under that -- getting in the Continuing Authority
Program -- the CAP program.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And we can talk later about that
because I don't know where that is, but it seemed to me that was a
situation that was controlled through the local jurisdiction, in this
case, Jacksonville.
MR. MUDD: That's right.
MS. UNGER: There are nine different activities under the
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October 16, 2001
Continuing Authority Program. They're listed here for you. For each
of the nine -- the cost share percentages, which Mr. Mudd alluded to,
do differ. The federal dollar limits differ. The annual program limits
differ.
You know, because of my limited time here I, obviously, can't
go into all of the details of the details of the different -- the difference
between each of the -- the categories, but I did want to show you the
list so that you could see the type of activities that fall under this
program -- and also to give you the name of Russ Rote in our
planning division. He is very knowledgeable about our Continuing
Authority Program. I brought some of his business cards with me
today, and I also have some pamphlets -- three or four pamphlets on
the different -- a couple of the different programs here. And I would
encourage you to take those and give him a call if you would like to
learn more about this -- this program.
I just spoke about most of these categories that you see up on the
screen that we can do under the Continuing Authority Program. I'd
like to now focus a little on what we actually do with some of these
activities under both the general investigations funding and the
Continuing Authority Program.
The district's largest project is the Central and Southern Florida
or C&SF Flood Control Project. The project covers almost 18,000
square miles and encompasses all or part of 16 different counties.
Included in the C&SF Project are efforts to supply water to
Everglades National Park, return sections of the Kississmee River to
its historic flood plain, and modify water discharges from Lake
Okeechobee.
In Collier County we have two projects that are not necessarily
flood control projects, per se, but they do have flood control
elements. One of them is Tamiami Trail culverts -- which I believe
Ananta spoke about earlier-- and then, of course, the Southern
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October 16, 2001
Golden Gate Estates Restoration Project. And I will be giving you a
brief status on these and some other projects in just a moment.
Establishing and maintaining navigable waterways were among
the most prominent -- prominent early Corps projects. Today
Jacksonville District is responsible for more than 2,100 miles of
Florida waterways. That's about 8.4 percent of the nation's total. Our
navigation projects include maintenance dredging of rivers and
channels ranging from a depth of three feet in the Kissimmee River to
49 feet at the Fernandina entrance channel of Tukings Bay up in
North Florida, Southern Georgia.
In Collier County, I understand, we have two shallow draft
navigation projects which have been authorized. Both were
constructed back-- completed in 1963. One is the Everglades Harbor
which provides a channel from the Gulf of Mexico -- Mexico through
Indian Key Pass in Chokoloskee Bay up the Barron River, and the
other is a channel from Naples to Big Marco Pass and Channel Lake
Gordon Pass. I believe the second one was maintenance dredged
back in 1993, and I don't know that the other was -- has been dredged
since it was constructed.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Could I interrupt you? Just one
second. Who handles the -- the Bayshore Canals -- dredging of the
Bayshore Canals? Is that county? MR. NATH: County.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: County? Okay. Thank you.
MS. UNGER: In regard to shore protection and restoration, the
district has constructed more than 90 miles of shore protection
projects since 1947. This amounts to about one-third of the nation's
total. I don't believe at this time we have any current shore protection
projects in Collier County.
Jacksonville District fulfills FEMA missions following disasters
from Hurricane Hugo to Hurricane Andrew, from floods to
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October 16, 2001
windstorms to earthquakes within our district boundaries to areas
throughout the world. The Jacksonville District team does respond to
natural disasters, many times being first on the scene and last to
leave. And, currently, we are supporting FEMA, the Department of
Defense, and the nation in public works and engineering mission in
New York City and Washington, D.C. Of primary activities being
performed are water-borne transportation, debris removal, and
structural safety technical assistance.
Responsible for regulating more than 15 million acres of
wetlands, 6,000 miles of coastline, and 9,000 miles of river bank,
Jacksonville has one of the largest regulatory permitting programs in
the nation. Our regulatory division which is located throughout the
state and numerous field offices reviews permit applications,
determines jurisdictional delineations, and enforces compliance with
federal laws and issued permits.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Kelly, can you stop there just
for a minute. We have a lot of governing agencies in the State of
Florida that control wetlands, and I would like to know-- well, even
if you can answer this -- what rule did Congress and Senate give to
the Corps of Engineers to control wetlands?
MS. UNGER: We have at least three acts. We have -- our
primary for the wetlands is the Clean Water Act -- was given -- the
Corps was given authority under that law. We also have the Rivers
and Harbors Act of 1899.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's -- that's tidal waters or
navigable waters?
MS. UNGER: Navigable waters, uh-huh, your docks, shoreline
protection.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: See, I'm thinking about, like,
Northern Golden -- Golden Gate Estates is, I mean, that contains
water.
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October 16, 2001
MS. UNGER: That would be under the Clean Water Act.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: 1972 Clean Water Act.
MS. UNGER: Which was rewritten in 1977, reauthorized in
1977, yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Operated under the '77 version,
and it still -- how it impacts the states.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The reason for these questions
was -- is there was some -- there was a determination made by our
county attorney -- I believe you received it also, Commissioner
Henning -- the Corps of Engineers -- Army Engineers is supposed to
be limited to navigable waters and waters going into it by decree
from Congress. Now, is this true, or is there -- this other act comes
into play where they have further authorization to be able to go
forward on that?
MS. UNGER: Exactly. That's for waters of the the United
States navigable and non-navigable.
jurisdiction.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA:
So -- right, it furthers our
I hope that after the -- when the
meeting comes to a close and when it comes to public comments, that
you'll make yourself available, because we have some people here
that are going to be asking some direct questions in relation to that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. And all waters within
the State of Florida that you're in control of; am I right?
MS. UNGER: The United States.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The United States.
MS. UNGER: All waters of the United States -- within the
United States.
COMMISSIONER HENNING:
potable water, no.
MS. UNGER: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING:
So Jim's water storage tank for
It's just mother nature type
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October 16, 2001
water?
MS. UNGER: You call it wetlands -- our technical definition is
waters of the United States which is more encompassing than just
wetlands, but for the State of Florida it's probably safe.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: How can we all come together,
these regulating agencies -- these permitting agencies so somebody
has a one-stop shop? I know we're trying to get to that area, but --
MS. UNGER: Right. And we have done some of that, too, with
an SPGP -- SPGP -- we've delegated I --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Delegate--
MS. UNGER: Special Programatic General Permit, I think, is
the acronym, and we've delegated to the State of Florida some
activities under our jurisdiction, but they're fairly minor in nature.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What about Golden Gate
Estates? Would that be some that you delegated?
MS. UNGER: We have -- now, you're really testing my
regulatory knowledge here. We had a regional permit, a general
permit that was issued for Golden Gate Estates and I believe -- was
authority not given to the county to issue that permit or perhaps --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA:
on this that can speak on this matter.
that after this meeting.
COMMISSIONER HENNING:
We're looking for an authority
I think we'll have to investigate
Yeah. Kelly, I think what
members of the board would like to see is -- you know, the bigger
pieces, the bigger developers go for it. You know, have your input
on that, but we have some hard-working people here in Collier
County that's trying to build their first home in Golden Gate Estates
on either a acre and a quarter acre, acre and a half, or five acres.
Working with the State of Florida we have somebody in house with
the EP to take a look at some of those issues, and every time that we
have more government involved in personal property, it jacks up the
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October 16, 2001
affordability.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I know Mr. Daltry is going to
have some -- some comments on all of this as we get to his section,
but I have a great concern, if I go back to some old federal
legislation, now, as you said revised in 1977 and that begins to look
at what can -- what contaminates an estuary. And you begin to look
at some of those standards, and you look at what's happened, those
become really major challenges to what's going on in the community.
So there's this overlapping. There's these various agencies.
There's these various acts begin to affect us, and at the local levels we
sit here as a Board of County Commissioners charged with zoning
and charged with land-use decisions, we feel like we don't have
everything that we need to play with as far as tools in the toolbox,
and our staffs work diligently -- staffs work diligently to help us
through this process. But I'm always afraid another shoe's going to
drop somewhere and I haven't factored that in in the decision making,
and all of a sudden we're hung out to dry, whether it's a 5 acre, 2 1/2
acre, or 3,000 acres. And that's a haunting concern I have every time
I make a land-use decision.
MR. OLLIFF: I think, Kelly -- and don't hold me to this -- but I
think that there was a nationwide permit for the Golden Gate Estates
area that lapsed.
MS. LINGER: That's what I was thinking; it was a general
permit.
MR. OLLIFF: And I believe -- a general permit. And I believe
that the Army Corps had delegated permitting responsibility for that,
not to us, but to actually DEP, I believe, and DEP is now housed in
our own Development Services building, but they actually have to go
out now on single-family building permit applications and review for
wetland permitting. And I believe that they were recently in our
offices talking about developing some sort of mitigation banking
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October 16, 2001
effort in order to be able to offset having individual property owners
trying to deal with their own mitigation on 2 1/2 acre tracts, so I think
-- I think that's where we are with that.
MS. UNGER: Okay. I can verify that, and I don't know. I
apologize. I don't know the history of where the Golden Gate Estates
regional permit or general permit lapsed and why it wasn't
reauthorized. My guess is it has to do with cumulative impacts in the
area.
MR. OLLIFF: I think you're right.
MS. UNGER: And so -- but I can research that, and -- and we
can certainly can get back with you.
MR. OLLIFF: You just make a note, and a little follow up on
that would be -- would be helpful.
MS. UNGER: Absolutely. Absolutely.
MR. OLLIFF: Thank you.
MR. MUDD: Kelly, even if the general permit lapsed, they still
have nationwide 26 -- even though it got more stringent -- that they
can fall back on, okay, and that basically gives the homeowner the
ability to use a nationwide permit and cut through all the red tape if
they -- if they don't impact a certain amount of the acreage that they
own by that home. And I remember one time it was -- it was a
quarter acre, and I think it came down to a 10th of an acre or
something like that. I'm not -- I'm not an expert at it because 26 was
changing when I left, but I'd ask you to also give us the details on
Nationwide 26 even though the nationwide -- or the -- the general
permit is -- or the regional permit, or whatever you want to call it, is
lapsed, you still have nationwide permit that can help them out.
MS. UNGER: Right. We have several nationwide permits, and
we had one for single-family homes and that may, too, have lapsed.
But we do have others, and we'll certainly look to see what the best
avenue is for the folks in that area.
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October 16, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Colonel Mudd, do you have the 77
regs under Clean Water that we can all be familiar with and turn out?
MR. MUDD: We can get to them. And the other thing that
Kelly hasn't told you, there's been several court cases that have
altered that 77 ruling on the Clean Water to limit some of the Corps'
regulatory authority and the Two-lock Rule and, I guess, the Smith
Case that was just up that came through, so it's -- it has a lot to do
with the nationwides, too, and -- and that permit process, so they're
going through a little bit of that change.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We appreciate that. Thanks.
MS. UNGER: Under our support for other programs we have
many agencies that do not possess the technical expertise to meet the
engineering requirements or needs of their programs, and that's where
the Corps comes in and fills those voids -- excuse me, by working in
partnership with these agencies and with the private sector. Our
Support for Others Program helps out the National Park Service, the
Departments of Interior and Commerce, the Bahamas, Puerto Rico,
Jamaica, the Irranigration and Naturalization Service, and those are
just a few that we -- that we do help out in that program.
Finally, we come to environmental restoration. This activity is
now one of the primary missions of the Corps of Engineers Civil
Works Program. Nowhere in the nation has growth had more of an
affect than it has in Southern Florida. With population, industry,
agricultural, and tourism, we've really changed the area's landscape.
And in an effort to slow and hopefully reverse some of the
detrimental effects of this growth, the Jacksonville District in concert
with the South Florida Water Management District is now leading the
world's largest ecosystem restoration initiative, the Central and
Southern Florida Project Comprehensive Review Study which is
known as the "Restudy."
Since ecosystem restoration is now one of the Corps primary
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October 16, 2001
missions and since Everglades Restoration specifically affects Collier
County, I would like to spend just a few moments on this effort. The
Central and Southern Florida Project was first authorized by
Congress under the Flood Control Act of 1948. It is a multi-purpose
project that provides flood control, water supply, prevention of
saltwater intrusion, and protection of fish and wildlife resources.
In June of 1993 the Restudy was initiated to reexamine the
Central and Southern Florida project to determine the feasibility of
modifying the project to restore the South Florida ecosystem and to
provide for other water-related needs of the region. After completing
the Restudy, the Secretary of the Army and the State of Florida
presented the Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan or the
CERP to Congress on July 1st of 1999. The CERP is a
comprehensive program that does provide for that restoration of the
South Florida ecosystem while also providing for those water-related
needs of the region.
On December 11 th of 2000 the Water Resources Development
Act was signed into law. Title 6 of the act or of the law is entitled
Comprehensive Everglades Restoration, and it approves the CERP as
a framework for modifying and changing the operations to the C&SF
project.
The CERP includes a series of environmental
improvements over the next 25-plus years at an estimated cost of $7.8
billion. These are some of just the broad-brush features that are
included in the CERP. We have six pilot projects to verify
technology. We have 15 surface storage areas that cover
approximately 170,000 acres of land, three in-ground reservoirs at
about 11,000 acres of land, 19 stormwater treatment areas covering
about 36,000 acres, and removal of over 240 miles of canals, levys,
and structures.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Before she leaves this map, I
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October 16, 2001
just have to tell you, that's what I'm going to be acquiring the land
for. That's what my job is, right there.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Somebody wanted me to ask
you, are you going to acquire A1 Perkins' land?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I wouldn't touch that with a ten-
foot pole.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Get a couple more.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Good shot.
MR. NATH: He has been offered.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, really?
MR. NATH: Yeah. South part -~ the project land so he has
been offerred several times.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, thank you.
MS. UNGER: There are several specific CERP projects that do
occur or affect Collier County. There is also critical projects listed
on -- on this list. I'd like to give you just a very brief status of where
we are with each of these.
On Southern Golden Gate Estates Restoration the draft project
implementation report is due to go out to the public for comment at
the end of November. As soon as after it's released, we will have a
public meeting in the area to solicit feedback on the report. And for
those of you who do not understand the Corps' new lingo, a project
implementation report is the decision document that basically bridges
the gap between the -- the comprehensive or consent -- sorry --
conceptual design that was found in the CERP and the more detailed
design that is necessary to go forward with project construction.
On the Lake Trafford Restoration, which I believe Ananta stated
earlier, we are anticipating awarding a construction contract next
month, and we are scheduled for the ground-breaking ceremony on
November 16th.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And thank you very much for
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October 16, 2001
that.
MS. UNGER: On the Henderson Creek-Belle Meade
Restoration, we are finalizing the design agreement which will allow
us to go forward in developing a project management plan then
subsequently a project implementation report. And I think it's
especially noteworthy to state that the DEP is the local sponsor on
this project as opposed to most of the others where the Water
Management District is our sponsor.
On the Tamiami Trail Culverts and Canal Plugs, the survey's
completed for the Phase 2, and the plans and specifications, I believe,
are currently being completed. The contract award is scheduled for
late November of next year, and project completion is scheduled for
late September of'04.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Where are these located in Eastern
-- in Eastern Collier County?
MR. NATH: Yes. It's between State Road 92 and 50 Mile
Bend, 40 miles straight between State Road 92 and the county line.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Boy, these are all right in your
district, aren't they?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Eighty-five percent of the
county -- no, it's a lot of county. Tell me one thing, though, I always
thought we were looking for sheet flow of fresh water. Why are we
stopping the fresh water flow at 41 ?
MS. UNGER: On the Tamiami Trail?
MR. NATH: We're not stopping. That's what we are trying to
do is putting out (inaudible) culverts to get more sheet flow towards
the Ten Thousand Island Estuary.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What -- what are the plugs for?
MR. NATH: Plugs? No. Plugs is on the north-side ditch that
diverts water, you know, to the culverts so as you drive down on 41
you will see the north ditch water. Some are flowing east, some are
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October 16, 2001
flowing west, so you have to direct it to the culverts. That's what you
need the plugs for.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. UNGER: On the Seminole Tribe Big Cypress Water
Conservation Plan, Phase 2 surveys for the west side of the project
will begin soon. The Seminole Tribe is scheduled to award contract
for the east side conveyance canals late this year, and we are planning
ground-breaking ceremony for December of this year.
And I have up there the Big Cypress L-28 Interceptor
Modifications Project. This project has not begun yet. It's current
estimated start date is September of'05. I believe it's been -- that's an
earlier date, so it has been moved up. We can see it move up again.
And, finally, we have the Southwest Florida Feasibility Study.
This, if you're not familiar with it, is a comprehensive water
resources -- resources study for the southwest part of the state. It
covers approximately 4,300 square miles and encompasses all or part
of six counties, including Collier County. The status is that the
feasibility cost-share agreement was signed in August of 2001, and
that agreement is basically a contract between the Corps and the local
sponsor or our co-sponsor, the Water Management District. And
current efforts on the study include hydrologic-model development,
determination of demands, vegetative mapping, and conceptual
model development. And this is a four-year $12 million study.
And that brings me to the end. I just wanted to put up a couple
of our web sites. For information, the first web site is the
Jacksonville District site home page where it highlights everything
we do within our jurisdiction. You can go there and find out about
regulatory. Most likely, if you get to the regulatory, you can then
look up the Clean Water Act and all of our regulations. I feel pretty
sure they're on line. Navigating to them is another stow, but
eventually you can get there and it is all on the web.
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October 16, 2001
And, then, the second web site is more specific to the CERP and
the CERP project specifically, and it has points of contact, anyone
you need to speak to for both the Water Management District and the
Corps. That is a joint web site vantaged out of our office, but it is a
joint web site, so it has all of the points of contact and all of the
important documents that are happening as we move through the
CERP and implement that. That's all.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Questions for Ms. Unger?
Thank you very much for being here and sharing with us this
morning. I'm sure our listening audience appreciated that input and
the web sites, and we look forward to the additional information
you'll send to us.
MS. UNGER: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Of course, you know you have a great
person here in Jim Mudd who is very familiar having been a part of
your organization.
MS. UNGER: He could have given this.
MR. MUDD: It's okay. You did a very good job. Thanks,
Kelly.
The next speaker we have today is Wayne Daltry, who's the
executive director of the Southwest Florida Regional Planning
Council. Wayne.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And before Wayne gets started,
Commissioner Fiala, this is the person that you can talk to about your
affordable housing with new development, as we were talking
yesterday up in Lee County.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Really?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
COMMISSIONER HENNING:
He's the man.
He's the man if it's a DRI.
Well --
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October 16, 2001
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, but that's what I want. Oh,
that's wonderful. Thank you for telling -- I didn't know that. I will
call you and set up a nice appointment. Thank you.
MR. DALTRY: Surely. I'm also a survivor of the original
affordable housing wars.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Boy, am I glad to hear that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: He likes steak for lunch, too, Donna.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I will remember that.
MR. DALTRY: Our web site -- Thank you for having me here.
Our web site -- go straight to it for those who like to click and read --
www. swfrpc.org. That's six letters, swfrpc.org. And it'll have
everything I'm going to tell you in much greater length.
The Regional Planning Council is you, and you are the Regional
Planning Council. The Regional Planning Council was created by
you and five other counties in 1973. You created the Regional
Planning Council because at that time the area of population, 350,000
people in an area the size of Connecticut and Rhode Island combined,
could see that the future was coming at the rate it took to build those
lots with houses that exist in Golden Gate Estates and Marco and
Lehigh Acres and Cape Coral and Port Charlotte and North Port and
Rotunda and South Venice.
1.1 million lots have been sold around the world, including
every military base and every combat zone in Vietnam. I was there.
It was happening. Those lots that were sold were deferred population
from this area of just under 4 million people. And nobody believed
the lots were being sold, and all of a sudden it started to come
because this area's population in 1950 was 70,000. And it just started
to climb and climb.
We realize by looking at Southeast Florida, Tampa Bay,
Orlando, Jacksonville, Atlanta that we could be just as good as them
unless we got our act together. And the decision was to get the act
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October 16, 2001
together, form a regional planning council, local governments
working together. The six counties former provide for municipal
representation and under that original agreements of-- interlocal
agreement, Chapter 163.01 and you have about 200 others within this
county with the cities and your neighbors already. You said, Well,
we'll work on -- is whatever we decide to work on. Growth
management, affordable housing, coordinating roads, worrying about
health care. Whatever local governments in Florida are charged to
deal with individually, we will discuss it collectively as we need to
do it, and you have. Whatever local governments in Florida charged
to deal with is whatever people need, so it's a very limited scope, as
you can tell.
The board is currently 34 members; 12 county commissioners,
10 city representatives, and the rest are appointed by the governor. It
has a staff of 27. The 27 staff is all capacities because it's a
horizontally and vertically integrated group, i.e., we take our own
budgeting and have our own attorney as well as everything else.
The things you have charged the council to do were ratify into
Florida law-- general law 1980, which is now contained in Chapter
186.501 at sequence Florida Statutes, and that's all the basic
groundwork legal infrastructure you need to know. Because from
now on I tell you what you have told me to do. I have been your
director for 19 years. I have worked there since 1975, and before that
I was chief of planning for Manatee County and before that a platoon.
So I got out when Richard said I could leave. Okay.
General law says regional planning councils are to do the
following --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is that Nixon?
MR. DALTRY: And my favorite. He got me out two months
early.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Took me a minute.
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October 16, 2001
MR. DALTRY: Regional planning councils are charged to
think strategically, and for that purpose there is a Strategic Regional
Policy Plan prepared by the council -- adopted by the council. The
first one was prepared -- adopted in 1975. It predated your local
government comprehensive plan. It predated just about every local
government comprehensive plan. It provided a policy framework
that has been the basis by which local governments have coordinated
ever since. So a level of regional policy, as opposed to operational
conflict, is low because the Regional Council 1975 adopted a set of
policies that have been periodically updated.
I bring you a prop. Those on the council and the two sitting here
on the council have their own version. Your planning department has
it. Your libraries have it. It is a listing of historical information data
from about 300 different issue areas, and it is a collection of policies
that directs what the council will be doing over the next several years
to help implement the needs of the areas local governments.
The council's also charged under general law to do
developments of regional impact review. I'll cut straight to the chase.
The council's -- one of the reasons it was set up is to counteract big
developers from hose nosing small local governments. That is not a
complicated topic. That's what they were set up to do, and the first
year of the council it confronted big developments and went to the
U.S. Supreme Court twice and won both times. From that point on,
things got better because at that time there was a lot of handful of
"howdy" and mouthful of "much obliged" and nothing got built or a
lot of land got sold.
Since then developers have built roads. They've set aside lands
for public services facilities. They've gotten in the water and sewer
business. Then you got in the water and sewer business. They
started becoming environmentally attentive that let nature
development today, its orders of magnitude. It's beyond description
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October 16, 2001
what was conceived of in the '50s much less the '70s where a lot of
the big issues were facing us.
There's 160 developments of regional development in Southwest
Florida. They are summarized in this prop. This is always sent to
your members of the Regional Planning Council, your local plan
agency, and your libraries. It's found on the internet. Their annual
report -- they must provide an annual report of their progress as listed
there.
Not all of their ideas, of course, get approved. Denial is one of
those things that you go through a long effort about, but most of them
have conditions. It's monitoring those conditions that are critical,
because when they fulfill their conditions they are always on the list
of those who are meeting stormwater management needs, water
quantity needs, school siting needs, transportation needs. And if you
don't monitor them they, of course, why would they be fools, if no
one is watching them, 'cause not watching anybody because bottom-
line drives.
But the ones that have been fulfilling their obligations are the
ones that you read about in all the good reports of the developments
of Southwest Florida. And just as a side note, I did a little side walk
through the homes on the internet, the 50 most expensive homes.
You can do the virtual tour. Fifty in the United States, fourteen were
in Southwest Florida, eleven were in the area from Bonita Springs
south into Naples. That was about three months ago.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Wayne, could I interrupt you for
just one second. And for our listening audience and all of those that
are interested in DRIs but are confused with the difference between
DRIs and PUDs, could you just give us a fast sentence or two on
that?
MR. DALTRY: Sure. Development of Regional Impact under
Florida Law is a development whose size, character, or magnitude --
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is it lots of houses or is it an airport or is it just a strange location--
compel them to go through a multi-jurisdictional review, affects more
than one county. That includes state highways, national parks.
A Planned Unit Development is a tool local governments use to
manage a development whose -- you want to be different than
straight-up zoning, and it can be as small as five acres. And -- it's
your code determines what's a planned unit development or a planned
industrial development or a planned commercial development.
A DRI is typically but not always a planned unit development,
but it always starts off by being unusually large. In Collier County
it's 1,000 units, approaching 2,000 units. When you get -- maybe it's
2,000 units already, quarter million people, and it is one that is -- if
it's a commercial project, it's 40 acres or more. So your typically
five- to ten-acre commercial won't go through it, but you may have a
planned unit development applying to it. Or it's a unique use, like the
commercial airport like Southwest Florida International.
So that's the real difference is that a planned unit development is
a tool you use in your zoning to give you flexibility to require better
setbacks than your normal zoning would require.
Regional Planning Council provides technical assistance and
local government comprehensive planning. A big role in the '70s is
now usually given to rural communities today because you have large
sophisticated planning departments. Council is the federal designated
review agency for federal funding. The last thing you need is for
your neighbor to be funded to do something you don't want, need,
propose. So that review process is handled through the Regional
Planning Council. Over 500 reviews are taken a year of which
maybe three or four actually trigger that kind of analysis.
So the council does what the board wants to do. The staff is
directed to do it, and the council made up of yourselves, City of
Naples, and other communities have been fairly broad in what they
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want analyzed. The council reinvents -- the staff in profile reinvents
itself every year. We deal with the priorities you want. Your staff is
supposed to be adept enough to change their hat when you need it
and still not lose the files, "Oh, that thing we did three years ago,
what did we do?" So let's not repeat our errors.
So here's the things the council's been doing this year directly
relevant to Collier County. We have updated our regional hurricane
preparedness study. This you use. You use this. This directs --
working with your local emergency preparedness department analysis
of the people you have exposed, the areas likely to flood, the shelters
you have available, the routes to get them out, and the confusion
you're going to have as they go into next counties all around for being
told the same thing.
We did the first one of this in conjunction with United States
Army Corps of Engineers. Was the first one done in the nation;
became the model for the world. We periodically update this partly
with funds from the state or the Corps or FEMA, and the rest was
local funds because we're going to direct on the conclusions and not
be told what the conclusions are.
This update tells the usual grim news that if another Hurricane
Donna was to come up the coast like it did in 1960, you'd be moving
700,000 people, take 60 hours to move them, and that won't happen.
So that is directing the local strategies -- you're developing work with
the private sector to come up with -- you don't even want to use the
word "shelter," but let's get real. The local things that you can do so
people can stay in the neighborhoods or at least in the community, if
not the county, so your recovery is easier, because they cannot
evacuate according to the traditional head 'em up, move 'em out
planning of the '70s.
Too many people, too many vehicles, routes are too small, and
too few destinations. There's three routes that get you out of
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peninsular Florida, U.S. 41/1-75, U.S. 27, and U.S. 1/95 Turnpike
Parkway, and they're moving 9 million people? That's 4 1/2 million
vehicles. No. So that's complexity of why local sheltering, refuging,
and local response is important and speaking to the unnamed beer
distributor company already referenced earlier today, they have --
they have an example of a local plan of what you can do. High --
well, high. Won't say dry. We know what they do.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Excuse me, Wayne. I hope Jim
Coletta shares with you his idea that he had about three years ago
about host neighbors.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It is a neighborhood, neighbor-
to-neighbor shelter plan. Actually, the plan came to us back and
there was quite a bit of interest. This went back about seven or eight
years ago, wasn't it, Donna? You were quite active at the time. And
due to the lack of non-storms, as you may say, the crisis situation
passed. And even though it was a prototype that didn't quite meet
maturity, it did match a lot of people up that have still kept a bond
going where the people that live inland will be able to go to people's
homes in the Estates or as faraway as Immokalee to seek shelter.
I -- I kind of hope that when the time does come that we have a
storm, that we can integrate that plan back into effect to some degree
where we can take people from shelters at the time of mass
devastation and move them inland to a residence. But that's
something we'll approach when we get to that point in time. I'm sure
you already have thought it out and have a master plan hidden away
in your desk drawer.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And that focussed a lot on people
that were handicapped, as well as people with animals; right?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right. Because in case of a
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major event, one, you don't have enough shelters, that's correct. And
number two, if it is a major event where you -- the houses are no
longer livable, then you're going to have to come up with something
that's going to span a period of time. And tents won't cut it. And you
won't have the transportation to move them outside of the immediate
area, so you're going to have to rely on your own resources and get
back to more basic neighbor-to-neighbor type of policy where you
utilize the resources of your neighbors.
MR. DALTRY: Just to give a brief link to previous
presentations, hurricane preparedness -- I already mentioned three
corridors. The unusual droughts of the last couple years caused sink-
hole formation, one of which went under U.S. 27 in May of last year,
as I recall, or the year before, which was one of the three critical
evacuation routes, temporarily closed because of water table being so
low the grounds beside it. These are the sort of things we have to
watch all dimensions of our planning process.
A sea-level rise study, EPA asked Southwest Florida Regional
Planning Council to undertake a prototype sea-level rise study just
not because we're going to worry about where the line here is a
century from now, you and I in our daily business, but for capital
investment strategies. If we're talking about major capital
investments, they're supposed to be the backbone of the community,
sea-level rise is something you should incorporate. If we're talking a
century in advance, you still expect to have a Collier County.
You still expect to have a City of Naples, but your capital investment
strategy isn't -- the really big-ticket items are not the things you can
dispose of, "Oh, gee, the water's too high today."
And the water doesn't occur-- rise doesn't occur really
gradually. I mean, it's kind of held back by your mangrove roots and
beach renourishment program and the sort of things you do locally
and individually, but when the storm comes, all of a sudden you have
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a new shoreline. And that's when you have the surprises. So sea-
level rise is just mapping at five- and ten-foot levels and in between
the kind of exposed facilities you have as -- as the sea level rises until
a climatic changes or whatever is causing it and the sea levels fall
again.
Transportation Disadvantaged program, as mentioned early by
Bob, we staff for you. Just an example of the things that you have
engaged the council to do, because part of the strategy is there is
something you need done, but you don't need it every day and every
community. Well, why not pool your resources, have one person do
it all for you, and is on tap when you need it. So you provide a
modest amount of money for your T.D. Grant and one quarter of a
person year, and we maintain a full-time person who's available for
you when you need it. I just brought a few of these props for
handouts which you've seen before.
That same logic applies to the traffic safety program, and each
county has a traffic safety committee, and each traffic safety
committee is sort of getting the same information. What you need to
do for school Children Protection and Drive Alive and Mothers
Against Drunk Driving, you have a county staff and private
participation, municipal participation, police -- police department
participation and traffic safety committee. They meet once a month.
You need somebody to keep the records, get the information to them,
get the information out to the press. Same person can do that for
seven counties, and you don't even contribute towards this
particularly except for the regional council's money.
But the FDOT provides approximately $10,000 per county to
work on this, and so we put together a person who travels to each
county, helps provide this service for you and, again, just a few of the
handouts that -- the kind of efforts that are going on, traffic safety.
You know, freight movement's important for this area. The
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railroad is gone. Your airport isn't a heavy mover of commercial
freight, so most everything -- and, of course, waterways are
commercial -- waterways are recreational waterways. So freight
movement by vehicles is important to us. Florida Department of
Transportation undertake studies that perhaps our area was
underanalyzed, we'll be generous to use the phrase. So Collier
County working with the Regional Planning Council we can -- it's
neighbor said, "FDOT, you need to do a better job." Well, the better
job starts next couple weeks because they found $300,000 to put in
the investment to analyze the freight movements and needs for our
areas of safe freight movement, reliable freight movement, and truck
railheads; include that in the state budgeting program. Something's
been overlooked. That's the lobbying side of the Regional Planning
Council working together.
The council staffs with your MPO, the Lee MPO, the Charlotte
MPO, the Sarasota/Manatee MPO, the Duval County Coordination
Program, again, is partially lobbying and partially just keeping our
focus on the roads don't stop at the county border. Well, actually, in
some cases they do and they shouldn't. Connect the roads, you have
a transportation corridor. You're not going to get 1-75 widened in a
timely manner. Every time we need it you're going to have to have
supplemental routes. And, again, if it goes to the county line stops,
it's partially a waste of money. Everybody just needs to work
together. Coordinating transit, coordinating the other non-road-based
transportation modes so your MPOs get together periodically and
compare notes and work on a common plan.
Council's and Economic Development District by the federal
government, that covers this county. It means that when you apply
for money for the Economic Development Administration you have
to put up less match and non-covered areas, and you get extra points
when you make an application. So things -- funds available for
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October 16, 2001
infrastructure improvements and economic development
improvements that make an application that Council's already done
10 percent of your funding for you and 10 percent of your points for
you just by being economic development district.
But under that hat the Council created a certified development
company. That provides -- that's a public-private partnership. It
created a entity. It's a 504 entity by which loans through the SBA
become available to your financial institutions. SBA picks up half
the risk. That program went into effect several years ago. It's
becoming self-sufficient finally.
We just got Lee County in our service area. It was strange. It
was forced to be left out, but that program, I think, has provided four
loans in this county, so far over 90 jobs. When it becomes more
effective and portfolio grows -- it's only about $12 million--it'll
become a major player for meeting those businesses, 'cause we're
trying to work with your economic development program to get
people out of the garages, out of the flea markets into your incubators
where they can get training on how to operate a business. Move out
of the incubators and they're own stand-alone tax-paying business
with a labor force.
Small business failure is a terrible thing in the United States, and
small business creation is a wonderful thing about the United States.
We like to work on the creation and survivability and get away from
the failure through a coordinated program with the SBA, the small
business development center of FGCU, and the community college.
That's all partnerships in and with the Economic Development
Committee in Collier County.
We have a local Emergency Planning Committee. The issue of
hazardous waste materials and hazardous waste -- hazardous waste
and hazardous materials to make sure that they're adequately planned
for so we don't lose fire personnel and safety personnel and fires that
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October 16, 2001
have occurred in buildings where we don't know what's stored. That
law went into effect over a decade ago. We established a multi-
county committee made up of fire personnel, police personnel,
emergency-response personnel. And many of the people who do the
storing called a local emergency planning committee, and they
provide a constant education program, produced books like this
(indicating) of which there's a multitude in your county with the
businesses on sorts of information you need to properly respond.
They also work with the gas company in extending the pipeline to
make sure fire departments are trained, because natural gas fires was
not something the local fire departments here were familiar with, and
we were able to get some training in place.
That same committee is, in fact, the one being charged to carry
out the direction Council gave me last meeting which was, see what
we can do about coordinating our terrorist response arrangements. A
lot of things are going on, but your standing LEPC was already made
up of those people. It's something they're discussing and trying to
make sure there's the -- issues to address and the counter responses
you can have.
There's -- in addition to all of that, we have the beach and inlet
coordinating convocation. Your beach restoration, your inlet
maintenance people meet under a council-sponsored forum about
every two months. This is up and down the coast of Manatee County
to make sure that they're coordinating their plans, making sure they're
coordinating the lobbying, because without the money this is
something you don't get done. And make sure we're not competing
for sand sources. And where it is possible to have combined
applications that are working on that too.
Council sponsors the Regional Harbor Board. That's made up --
and you made appointments to it of private boaters, public boating
entities, DEP Sea Grant, the West Coast Navigation District, the
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October 16, 2001
Council, to work on a coordinated program for anchorage
management. Boy, I know I'm boring you to tears, but there's a lot of
things going on. Where you have a designated anchorages, there's 46
of them designated along the five coastal counties and a boating plan
and a boating report that's produced and given to 10,000 boaters, at
least. And it is the Appalachian equivalent-- it is the aquatic
equivalent of the Appalachian Trail.
You've designated anchorages like the trailheads where you can
come in and go out and pack it in and pack it out. Do not dispose of
your sewage in our waters. Council's asked the chief administrative
officers, your county administrator get together periodically to
coordinate different tasks, and they have given different tasks such as
purchasing and interlocal agreements on any vast number of subject
matter you want to address. They have helped develop some of the
council's legislative positions which I will get to in a minute.
Now, that's -- most of that's ongoing, whether it's annual or
periodic efforts that Council does at your request directly benefits
Collier County. We do have some initiatives that are less frequent.
I'll give you an example of the things that Council's taken us one-shot
deals or take up again. The Council prepared the future land use map
of the State of Florida based on low government comprehensive plans
because state land planning agency wouldn't do it. The Council knew
it needed to be done and did it for the entire state. So whenever you
hear Florida's been planned for 91 million people, you are the people
that made sure that statistic was done because it's your staff
development gave it to you and provided it to the State of Florida,
filling a hole.
Council's also the one that developed the draft legislation
implementing the state constitutional amendment of 1992, enacted in
1993 or 1994 by the legislature. Was vetoed by the governor.
Enough time had gone past. The Council had had enough of it,
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October 16, 2001
developed the legislation. Our legislative delegation got it passed in
1998. Why did I particularly bring that up? Because the state plan is
to guide the budget cuts of State of Florida according to the state
constitution, so when you start hearing the pain coming out of
Tallahassee for not following the state plans -- because they were
missing the shot that you helped create for them in Florida law.
The Council also was the only agency designated in the United
States to help set -- site the first university sited in two decades. Of
course, the criteria was the land had to be free. So standard planning
techniques went right out the window when the land had to be free,
but the Council was the forum by which the 22 sites were reviewed
and the site ultimately selected at least met the criteria, and I think 50
years from now we'll realize it's a wonderful site. And even now we
know it's an important site for our entire quality of life, economic
development, and sense of who we are.
The Council sponsored the Transportation Summit in 1999. It
brought all the parties together about the needs of our region
including 1-75, and during that summit FDOT funded another $100
million for 1-75 to expedite the improvements 10 years ahead of the
day before they were to be done. I mean, ten years ahead of the time
that it would be done the day before the Council had the forum. So
sometimes getting together and discussing the issues brings the
appropriate pressure to get some quick response.
Council has a legislative program adjusting platted lands. The
devolution of human services and transportation currency all of
which is being taken through the legislature now.
Odd little jobs the Council has its staff do, has agreed to have its
staff do is participate in Corkscrew Regional Ecosystem Land Water
Trust, and I currently am chairman of that. That's a two-county land
acquisition program of Corkscrew lands, half of which are in Collier
County. And the Everglades Restoration, it's called officially the
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October 16, 2001
South Florida Restoration. It is managed by a task force which has a
working group. I'm chairman of the working group, and I know more
about CERP than I ever wanted to know.
Council's designated -- accept the designation to be the Lake
Okeechobee Small Business Emergency Loan Relief Agencies. That
loan program covers the Immokalee area of the businesses adversely
affected by the drought. We are handing out money, as we speak, to
the small businesses, not only to make up for the impacts of the affect
of the drought upon their businesses of last year, but we recognize as
the bridge loans for those are teetering to go into the next drought and
the next drought we will have starting in March.
And, finally, just for the fun things, the Council's developed the
Lake Okeechobee Scenic Trail program which is connected to the
scenic trail that comes right up the Big Cypress. So other little things
that we've done. I will respond to your questions because I could go
on and on and on, because I am proud.
I serve at the pleasure of Regional Planning Council without a
contract. When they get to the word "adjourn" of the meeting, I'm
not fired; I'm employed until the next meeting's called to order. I've
done that for 19 years. That's given me seniority over all the other
administrative officials in this region because all the rest are on
contracts, whereas the Council treats me like a human being. I've
appreciated it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Wayne, I think you're probably the
most knowledgeable person that I know of in dealing with this
plethora of subjects that you have just outlined, and it's hard, I think,
for people to understand how the Regional Planning Council takes
each one of these and integrates the needs of all Southwest Florida to
meet everything that needs to be done from transportation, to land
use, to water management, to emergency services. Because you're
right. Nothing stops at county lines. And it's critical --
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Commissioner Coletta and I serve on this council, and I serve on the
transportation subcommittee. Commissioner Coletta is working on
healthcare issues because all of these things are important on a
regional basis. And I can't emphasize enough the great work the
Council's done and how much we need to pay attention to it.
We dearly are appreciative of the restoration process, but we're
also looking at that restoration process in terms of the folks who
dammed and dyked did a beautiful job, but they were charged by
Congress to do that. And, now, we got to undo that which we did,
and we're making sure that we don't do it the same way that we
started it. We want people to think outside the box. We're not
looking for the same decision makers that dammed and dyked to be
the ones that end up restoring without a lot of outside input for the
creativity and expansion of thinking that needs to be done.
And thankfully Wayne is a person heading up and working with
the people and the Corps to make sure that we end up with the best
product. So I personally want to thank you, Wayne, for all your years
of service and how much you have helped me as a county
commissioner to better understand what we have to do on a regional
level.
MR. DALTRY: And that's a different presentation we're
showing you when I raised my first questions. FDOT may be
maintaining the waterway next to the interstate, but that's a major
water course as recognized in the restoration directly effects the state
park and as it moves water east or west water is money. It's either
money that you spend in order to get it off your land, and later it's the
money you spend to get it back on your crops, your water supply,
your golf course. Because Florida gets 50 -- I'll do a little bit of the
water -- 52 inches of rainfall a year, other than I think the rain forest
in Washington, Oregon, that's probably the most water a state gets in
the continental United States, but we have to discharge 52 inches of
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rainfall a year, in effect, because it's that kind of system.
Our estuaries depend upon the water flow, our humidity which
is where most of our water is stored I think, that I will agree with
you, Lake Okeechobee, include the sky, Florida has the water
because our evaporation rate in this part of the state will exceed
rainfall on exposed surface water body. And so we end up with these
huge storage needs to get us through the dry season. Our sand is our
best reservoir, but unfortunately septic tanks don't work if they're
sitting in water. So we end up having flood control and drainage, but
since we're nine feet, ten feet, twelve feet above sea level, our storage
area for water is called the Gulf of Mexico. And getting it back after
that is hard.
So we're driven by all these needs, and if we do it wrong it's so
expensive. And we've seen it done wrong. That's why most of the
restoration's -- big dollars on restoration are in Biscayne Bay. That's
why Tampa Bay has such huge expenditures, why the Kissimmee
River is channeled and now being rechanneled. Lake Okeechobee, a
near-death experience which requiring them to lower their lake level
by two feet which created this demand for 170,000 acres more of
lakes. One hundred seventy thousand acres, isn't that about close to
300 square miles of new lakes. If we had a problem with not enough
humidity, we're going to be fixing it now. But all that and still move
the water around and recognize that the entire environment and our
quality of life and economy's based much on coastal resources. Eco-
tourism, we used to call it going to the beach and fishing, you know,
is -- we lose the water going to our estuaries, it's not a fun place
anymore.
So all that competition going at once, but meanwhile our biggest
movement of water isn't the water management district. It is our
highway department. Our biggest investment in water transportation
infrastructure isn't DOT or the Water Management District; it's the
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county and the city. For every road and every sidewalk you've got a
ditch. And when it is clogged, you get a phone call. You've got
hundreds of smiles in this county alone, and you start talking about
just the water side.
Then the transportation side, but you got to keep the road -- the
house -- the Golden Gate Estates had the general -- has the general
permit -- used to say 10,000 square feet of impervious surface was
allowed for each lot in Golden Gate Estates. That was the general
permit. I'm operating off the top of my head. Well, 10,000 square
feet sounds like a lot. On the lot, you know, 10,000-square-foot
house? No. Two thousand square foot house; the rest of it was a
driveway. The rest of it was -- you know, the lake. The little lake that
was created for the driveway. I mean, 10,000 went real fast.
So the area-wide mitigation program was needed. Okay. We're
going to have an area-wide mitigation program. Well, that's a land-
use decision. Land-use decision -- okay. We're going to need
hundred square miles or whatever it is. You know, you say, well,
Collier County, the size of Rhode Island already has 1,000 square
miles -- 1,200 in preserves, why do we need another 100 square
miles? Well, you have a national treasure, Everglades National Park,
Big Cypress you can't always lay claim to it. Okay. Whose
properties are the perfect ones? Where is the money going to come
from, because it's a property-rights environment, as it should be. You
just don't designate someone's private property as everybody else's
public benefit.
Land use is brought in. Now, you're coordinating your land use,
your transportation, your water. And you're doing it in part driven by
mistakes made when the county had a population of 11,000, and sure,
let's divide the land up and sell it to the Yankees because we need
economic development.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Here we are.
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October 16, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Here we are. We have the wonderfi~l
opportunity of the challenges.
MR. DALTRY: And affordable housing. I won't start.
MR. MUDD: Thanks, Wayne. Do we -- Commissioners, do we
have any other questions for Wayne at this particular juncture? I
think he's always readily available so that you can grab him in order
to get that information and -- you know, he did that whole thing off
this piece of paper. That's amazing. I thought it was the fog that
delayed him this morning. It's because you were busy; that's what
was going on.
Mr. Chairman, we have two speakers.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes. Let's go to public speakers if we
might.
MR. MUDD: Okay. The first is Brad Cornell.
COURT REPORTER: May I change my paper?
MR. MUDD: Yup.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We need a paper change, Brad.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Let's all stand up and stretch.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, we're ready.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Let's do it.
MR. CORNELL: Hi, Commissioners. Brad Cornell with
Collier County Audobon Society.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Good afternoon.
MR. CORNELL: Thank you for the opportunity to say just two
-- I have two brief points to make. One is that since this is an issue
dealing with interagency issues and how they all relate to Collier
County, wetlands figure very prominently into that, and this county
has been charged with coming up with some county-wide wetland
policies -- wetland protection policies which are in the process right
now. Those policies are referencing an effort that is statewide to
come up with a uniform way of assessing mitigation needs based on
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October 16, 2001
wetland values called the Uniform Wetland Mitigation Assessment
Method, and it's being worked on right now through the Department
of Environmental Protection, DEP. And it's going to be our
referenced method of valuing our wetlands and how we're going to
protect them and mitigate for their loss.
The -- there are problems with that method and with all the
current methods that are cited in a very recent June 2001 report from
the National Academy of Sciences. This is the report, and in there
there are a number of recommendations. Two prominent ones are
that -- are issues to our -- that are current methods and including the
way the uniform method is -- is stated that they're too subjective.
Assessments are too subjective. They rely on best professional
judgment. So you get ten people out there looking at a wetland. You
have ten different opinions about what the values are of that wetland.
So that's a problem.
And the other problem that they cite prominently is that -- that
assessment methods need to consider more functions. We need to
recognize that wetlands provide a whole host, a spectrum of values
for society, and these need to be addressed. They're not currently
being addressed in this uniform assessment that's coming down upon
us. IfI may recommend that Collier County -- while we don't have
the time, staff doesn't have the time to trot out a whole analysis of
this, if I may suggest that we reference the National Academy of
Sciences report with all of its recommendations, and send this
recommend-- these recommendations to DEP as our comments and
say, "Please incorporate these recommendations because they're on
behalf of all of us." I think that would be very helpful.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Brad, where can we get a copy
of those?
MR. CORNELL: I can send you -- you can read it on-line it's --
this is a pre-publication copy. It just came out in June. They haven't
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actually published it yet, but you can buy it for about 40 bucks. I just
got mine this week. You can read it on-line, and your staff, Bill
Lorenz and other folks, have -- Amy Taylor or Barbara Burgeson
have the information. I can e-mail it to you. It's the National
Academy of Sciences' web site.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: If you're asking us to adopt
those standards, then, you know, we need to know all about that.
MR. CORNELL: Right. I guess I -- I bring it up only because
the National Academy of Sciences is a pretty well-reputed board of
scientists. These recommendations are actually being tried out by the
Army Corps of Engineers as a new way of assessing wetlands. And
they're sort of being ignored for political reasons by Tallahassee and
the DEP just to be sort of efficient politically, but I think a lot of
people including NAS feel that -- that we're losing wetland values by
not incorporating these sorts of recommendations into our assessment
method.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I wonder -- and I'm sorry. I
didn't mean to interrupt.
MR. CORNELL: That's all right.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just wonder, Brad, if our
Environmental Advisory Council might be somebody who could
make a recommendation to the county commission about that.
MR. CORNELL: We talked about that. We actually -- their last
meeting you were at for a little while we did discuss this, and they're
very interested in it. Staff is providing them the information. There's
an executive summary, and if you would all like to see that, it's -- it's
a pretty quick read just as an executive summary. The whole report,
obviously, is quite a bit more in depth.
You can take it for what it's worth. Without doing a lot of
analysis and charging staff with doing -- doing something that's going
to take a lot of time, that might be a quick way to reference some
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October 16, 2001
valuable recommendations to the state that's working on this
assessment in that. Just a suggestion, and you might rely on staff for
looking at those, and I would be happy to share this with all of you.
I'm sorry to bring -- I know it makes it messy, but it's something
worth looking at, I think.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, Brad, for the input. I think,
members of the board, that we do have to have professional staff look
at this. I think we have advisory committees, EAC and Planning
Council. I think we need to be aware of what it is and then look at its
application within the total process. And at this point I certainly am
not knowledgeable enough to make any further comments on it, other
than it's something we thank you for bringing to our attention and we
need to look at.
MR. MUDD: I'll get Bill Lorenz actively involved.
MR. CORNELL: Bill has -- thank you.
MR. MUDD: Our next public speaker is Cindy Kemp.
MS. KEMP: Hello. My name is Cindy Kemp, and I'm
representing Property Rights Action Committee, and just a little
sidebar before I get into my topic. Having televised meetings is
wonderful except out where I live we have no cable. So if we could
get like a computer camera and we can watch it on the internet, that
would be good.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We talked about this numerous
times about putting it on the internet, and I don't see the person that I
should direct the question to, but I will take it up with the county
manager again. My understanding was we were looking into that. If
we could have, if anything, just on real audio. MS. KEMP: That would be fine.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That -- no really. It shouldn't
be that expensive. I know many, many radio stations have done it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I could keep up from Palm
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October 16, 2001
Beach then. I'd really like that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Right.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA:
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
COMMISSIONER COLETTA:
You could even comment back.
That's it, e-mail me.
God help us.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, ma'am, would you step a little
closer. Pull the mike a little closer to you? Thank you.
MS. KEMP: Property Rights Action Committee is a new group
of citizens that have formed as a watchdog group for what we feel is
the ubiquious encroaching environmental and government regulations
on our property. And when you get into speaking about people's
properties, going on the premise that our homes are our castle, it gets
very personal and very close for a lot of people. This is where they
have all their money. This is where they have all their sentimental
things and everything else. I'm sure we're all aware of. We all relate
to that. So there's a lot of frustration and there's a lot of cynicism,
and the group has formed.
Why I came here today is we did raise the issue with the Army
Corps of Engineers that they were overstepping their jurisdiction in
permitting, and this is based on a supreme court ruling. We have sent
letters out to our commissioners and to the county attorney and to the
Army Corps of Engineers, and we have had other lawyers look at the
case. It is our finding in the -- and the city attorney's finding that the
Army Corps of Engineer -- I beg to differ with the representative
today -- but they are overstepping their -- their boundaries here as
applicable to navigable waterways, which is not the area where --
where people are living right now.
So we want to just bring this up to the commissioners and let
you know that we're asking you, as our representatives, to help us to
protect our private property, and that's mainly what I -- what I came
here for is to say we're out there. We're -- we're -- we're looking at
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October 16, 2001
these things -- you know, people can't get to the meetings, but what
we are all e-mailing everybody, and we're back and forth and on the
phone a lot, and we're very concerned. And there is a group of
people out there. We're -- we're going to be watching this, and we're
asking you to -- as our representatives, to take it and go with it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Ms. Kemp, I can say working
with your commissioner, Commissioner Coletta, he does strongly
believe in property rights, and I -- and also about public lands and
access to those public lands. I think you're very fortunate to have a
commissioner like Commissioner Coletta. You owe me.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You got it. Of course, we're
limited too, the county, the Corps of Army Engineers, what they say
is what we got to follow, and I think we need to clearly define what
their parameters of authority go, how far we can stretch our authority
to be able to cover these -- these different particular things that
they're now covering. Somewhere we need to work closely with
them. If they can authorize us on their behalf, that may speed up the
process and give us the right to be able to smooth it out.
That's one concern. Of course, permit fees and the length of
time everything takes, it's unforgivable from when you start and
when you finish and actually build a dwelling. And God forbid if the
homeowner ever tries to do this totally on their own. By the time
they get through, they'll feel like they just finished a four-year college
course.
MS. KEMP: I understand. Okay. So we just want to -- you
know, we raise that question. Why is the Army Corps involved in
permitting if they're out of their jurisdiction? And we'd like you to
keep that on your-- in your mind. Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate your
comments and input. This is really important that citizens relate to us
their concerns so that we can do and work with these issues. It's a
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October 16, 2001
concern of all of us. We want to do the right thing. You know, we
don't want to infringe on what you have worked so hard to achieve.
You're right. You have everything in this, and I know you want to be
good stewards of the land, too, and
but you get totally frustrated by the
how you can live and what you can
you want to do the right things,
agency process and how it affects
do and can't do. And it's a
challenge for all of us to make sure that your rights are protected and
that we look out for the overall good and uses of land and water and
everything in a community.
So keep talking to us and your -- Commissioner Henning is
right. You couldn't have a better commissioner than Commissioner
Coletta representing your area. He is a hard-working guy that rolls
up his sleeves and gets out there. And, believe me, this
commissioner relies very much on the input that he provides us on
the dais on his assessment of the situation. I value him a great deal,
and I listen intently to what he has to say. We don't always agree
with each other, but for the most part we get along pretty well.
He's bigger than I am, so I got to kind of watch out what I say.
But thank you for being here.
MR. MUDD: The one thing on the Corps side of the house for
regulatory -- and it seems to -- I heard it a couple times today -- but
the Clean Water Act, when it -- when it came up with the 401 and the
404 type permits, that was given to the Environmental Protection
Agency who delegated to the Corps of Engineers because they
weren't able to do the permitting process at all. And there was some
executive direction where the Corps got into that process. That's one
of these missions that the Corps of Engineers would like to get rid of.
Okay. It's not one they like very much. Okay? Because they're
trying to help people do the process, and at the same time you're
going out there saying, "How can I help you with flood control" and
at the same -- and then, in the other hand, we're looking and saying
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October 16, 2001
there's some permit -- I use the term "we." Okay. It was an old term
"we," all right. But at the same time they're having to issue a permit.
So, Kelly, I'd ask you to go back and go over the general permit
process thats supposedly has lapsed. Take a look at the nationwide
permits, and see if we can get that information down here and get it
out to the folks in Golden Gate Estates and get it to you, Cindy, so
that you know where the boundaries are in that process. I think it
would help a little bit. But the delegation was to the Environmental
Protection Agency, and they gave it to the Corps based on executive
order.
So I will also tell you that the Corps has an appeals process. So
if you get permit denial or something like that, you can appeal that
permit denial back up through to the higher level into the Corps.
And if you really get denied, and there is a way to get back into the
EPA channel also in that permit process. So it's a couple of unknown
facts that are out there that the listening audience needs to know --
know about.
Commissioner, that's the end of the public speakers and subject
to questions, turn it back to you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'll defer to fellow commissioners.
Any other questions or comments that you would like to have?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Once again, this has been a
very informative meeting. I feel like I'm a little better equipped now
that I have another tool in my toolbox, as they say.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Right. Commissioner Mac'Kie?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Nope. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No. Just appreciated all of the
input and time that you-all spent putting this together for us.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, sir.
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October 16, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Thank you, Guss, for being
here. Thank you, participants in the audience. Thank you, listening
audience. Thank you, Mr. Mudd, for an excellent workshop. We
stand adjourned. God bless America.
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 12:30 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
CHAIRMAN~AMES D. CARTER, PH.D.
These minutes ~ approved by the Board on ////~/~/
presented ~'~ or as corrected .
, as
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT
REPORTING, INC., BY CAROLYN J. FORD, NOTARY PUBLIC
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