BCC Minutes 09/26/2001 W (Rural and Agricultural Area Assessment & Immokalee Area Study)September 26, 2001
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WORKSHOP
Naples, Florida, September 26, 2001
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of
County Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, having
conducted business herein, and also acting as the Board of Zoning
Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as
have been created according to law and having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 9:15 a.m. In WORKSHOP SESSION in
Building "F" of the Government Complex, Naples, Florida, with the
following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
James D. Carter, Ph.D.
Pamela S. Mac'Kie
Jim Coletta
Donna Fiala
Tom Henning
ALSO PRESENT: Thomas Olliff, County Manager
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NOTICE OF BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
INFORMATIONAL WORKSHOP
Wednesday, September 26, 2001
9:00 A.M.
Notice is hereby given that the Collier County Board of County Commissioners
will hold an informational workshop on WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2001, at 9:00
A.M., in the Board Meeting Room, Third Floor, Harmon Turner Building
(Administration), at the Collier County Government Complex, 3301 East Tamiami Trail,
Naples, Florida. The Board's informational topic(s) will include, but may not be limited
to, an overview of the following subjects:
·
·
·
·
·
·
Rural Area Assessment (Immokalee Area Study)
Overview of the Study
Agriculture - Past, Present, and Future
Environmental Assets of the Area
Committee Report
Horizon Framework/Scenario Outline
The meeting is open to the public.
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this Board will need a record of
the proceedings pertaining thereto, and therefore may need to ensure that a verbatim
record of the proceedings is made, which record includes the testimony and evidence
upon which the appeal is to be based.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
James D. Carter, Ph.D., Chairman
DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK
By:/s/Maureen Kenyon
Deputy Clerk
September 26, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
Welcome to the Collier County Board of County Commissioner
workshop on rural and agricultural area assessment, Immokalee area
study. As we begin the program this morning, would you please
make sure that all your cell phones are off, please. We know how
important you are and everybody wants to talk to you, but it does
become distracting.
So, as we begin all meetings, will you join me in standing for
the pledge of allegiance.
(The pledge of allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I understand we had a new little
rendition that was going on behind me. I'll take a pass on that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: What you have to understand is your
Board of County Commissioners do have a sense of humor, and we
do truly enjoy being together for these meetings and working
together. We really are -- in my experience -- and this is my third
year on the board. I don't have the experience that Commissioner
Mac'Kie has, but this group --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: God bless you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm not going there. This group, I can
say, is just a lot of fun to work with. Now, sometimes we do get in
some pretty interesting discussions among ourselves, but I will tell
you when we walk up to this dais, there's not one moment of
animosity between us at all. We just are not cut that way. We can
debate it out with each other up here and have differences, but if we
all thought the same, as one former commissioner said, all you'd need
is one of us.
So with that, thank you all for being here and to our listeners at
home. I think this is probably one of the finest, again, workshops that
you will have an opportunity to participate and listen to because this
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September 26, 2001
is a continuing process for Collier County. This one deals with the
eastern lands in which we are going to devote specifically this time
this morning for us to get an update on what's taking place, where we
are, and our overall efforts in our Growth Management Plan which
ties into everything. Growth management for there, for the rural
fringe, for the urban areas, for community character studies.
All of the pieces will come together, but we take individual
workshops to focus so that we can get the most information and deal
with these in an expedient way and effective way and not try to lump
a lot of things together on one agenda. That's why you see us in a lot
of workshops, and then every other week you'll see us meeting in a
general assembly here to deal with all kinds of county business that
comes in front of us.
So with that, Mr. Olliff, I'll turn the meeting over to you.
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Good
morning, Commissioners. Welcome to another workshop. We're
getting started a little bit late, so I'm going to try to cut my comments
as short as I possibly can. This workshop needs to appreciate how
lucky they are. We made the group yesterday sing God Bless
America. As patriotic as we are, we've learned not to try to do that in
our meetings anymore.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We are not going to be known as the
Mormon Tabernacle Choir, I'll tell you that.
MR. OLLIFF: This workshop is one that I think is an
exceptionally important workshop for us. Most of the commissioners
are fully aware of the issues surrounding the rural lands issue. The
eastern portions of this county and the development and land-use
patterns that we will try and put together for our future as we move
out to the east in Collier County are going to be exceptionally
important for us.
I think it's very important for the board to understand fully all of
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September 26, 2001
the details about how we got here, why we are where we are, and
what the future is going to be, and hopefully you will get that from
today's workshop. For some housekeeping items, one, there are on
the table at the front of the room some speaker slips, and if anyone is
interested in speaking, there is an opportunity at the end of the
workshop for any public comment. If you'll fill one of those out and
hand it to Mr. Dunnuck, who's got his hand up in the air, we'll make
sure that we call you at the appropriate time.
The only other thing I would add, Mr. Chairman, is this is a
workshop, and for those of you who are wearing coats, by all means
feel relaxed, take them off. This is where we roll up our sleeves and
hopefully --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. If you feel uncomfortable, I'll
take mine off.
MR. OLLIFF: -- get a little work done.
The agenda starts with Marti Chumbler who is Nancy Lananne's
partner, and I think appropriately so she's going to kick off our
workshop by sort of going through the "how we got here"
chronology. And with that I'll just turn that over to Marti.
MS. CHUMBLER: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of
the Commission. As Mr. Olliff indicated, I'm Marti Chumbler with
Carlton Fields law firm, and I've been asked to come today to kind of
run over with you all, again, how we got to where we are today. For
some of you, I'm sure this is something you probably could recite
yourselves as well or better than I can.
Back in 1997 the Collier County Board of County
Commissioners adopted amendments to the local Comprehensive
Plan which ultimately were found by an administrative law judge not
to be in compliance with state law. Specifically, those amendments
were deemed not to adequately protect natural resources like wildlife,
listed species, and habitat.
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September 26, 2001
As a result of that recommendation by the judge, the Governor
and Cabinet sitting as the administration commission issued some
remedial orders. Some of those were very specific amendments
which have since been adopted by the commission. Some were
interim amendments which have also been adopted by the
commission. But the big piece, the piece that we're here talking
about today, is the assessment. Through that assessment the
Governor and Cabinet ordered Collier County with public
participation to look into steps that would be taken to adequately
protect these natural resources and the way that the Comprehensive
Plan should be amended for those protections.
Now, there was a deadline put on the assessment. The Governor
and Cabinet indicated that by June 22nd, 2002, any amendments that
came out of that assessment should actually be adopted. It appears
that we are going to meet that deadline for the rural fringe
assessment. The Governor and Cabinet had indicated that with the
agricultural rural lands it would be appropriate for the assessment to
be split into two parts; one part dealing with the rural fringe upon
which there was already a lot of data available and not a need for
collection of a lot of new data, and a separate phase assessment for
the rural area because there the data set was not as good.
As I said, it looks like the June 22nd, 2002, deadline will be met
for the rural fringe; however, we think that it would be really rushing
things to try to meet that deadline for the rural area. Therefore, we've
talked to all the other parties that were involved in the litigation
before, and we reached a consensus that it would be appropriate to
ask the Governor and Cabinet to move that deadline to October of
2002.
We've also made contacts with the staff and the administration
commission, and it appears that that motion will probably be granted.
The schedule, as I say, is moving forward with that adjustment, and
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September 26, 2001
that sort of brings you up to where we are today.
I would be glad to take any questions that you may have.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioners, any questions on that
aspect?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: It's very clear.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: It's very clear to me.
MS. CHUMBLER: Thank you.
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, next on your agenda is Ron
Hamel who's going to provide you an overview of the Immokalee
area study.
MR. HAMEL: Thank you, Tom and Marti. Good morning,
Commissioners. For the record, my name is Ron Hamel. I am one of
the volunteer citizens that have been appointed to serve on the
oversight committee, and I was appointed by Commissioner Berry at
the time. I am honored to be here today to represent the committee as
the chairperson.
I think I missed one committee meeting of the committee, and
the next thing I know I was chairman of the commissioner-- of the
committee. So I'm not going to miss anymore.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That will teach you.
MR. HAMEL: As indicated by Chairman Carter and Mr. Olliff,
we are here to give you a status report of the progress of the rural
assessment. Our presentation today consists of a video and a
PowerPoint, and the presentation covers seven different topics and is
being presented by nine different individuals. The presenters include
members of the committee, staff, consultants, and agricultural
experts.
We have prepared an introductory video to kind of put this effort
into focus and to frame our discussion this morning. So without any
further delay, I would like to go ahead and roll the video and call
your attention to the screen.
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September 26, 2001
(The video was played.)
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Wow. Great job.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Excellent.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Who put that together? That was
just wonderful. Does anybody know? Is anybody going to take
credit? That was fabulous. So well done. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That would be great for community
meetings, I think, that every organization, if you're not tuned in,
homeowners' associations, if you want to educate your groups
coming back, let them know what the rural land study is all about,
this is the best that I have seen.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I agree with you, Jim. I would
suggest that we make that available to Channel 54.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Run that all the time. Okay. Thank
you.
What do you do for an encore here?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No pressure, Mr. Townsend.
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, I think we're next on the agenda
to agriculture past, present, and future, and you've got Dallas
Townsend and Tom Spreen on the agenda.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And who could do a better job
of telling us that.
MR. TOWNSEND: You're very generous.
Thank you, Tom. Mr. Chairman, members of the board, I do
indeed think it's an honor to have an opportunity to visit with you and
talk a little bit about the agricultural development of Collier County.
Just to give you a little background on myself, I served here in Collier
County as a livestock 4-H Club agent from 1965 to 1979 and then
had an opportunity to move north nine miles. I went up to Hendry
County.
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September 26, 2001
· I think one of the things that is very important is to recognize
how old the agricultural industry here is in Collier County. So let's
get started by looking at a little bit here. Historically the first major
agricultural industry in Southwest Florida was the county -- excuse
me -- I'm on the wrong line -- was the cattle industry. It was started
well before 1900. And we have a beautiful graphic there of a
painting, but I want to give you a little bit more of a personal note on
that painting. That is an actual painting of a photograph. That's the
Red Cattle Company cattle crew driving a bunch of steers into the
railroad loading pens in Immokalee in 1948.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, how neat. Wow.
MR. TOWNSEND: However, the cattle industry did no land
development. Basically all they did was try to manage their pastures
through some controlled burnings in those days. There was almost
no intentive agricultural production in the area until after 1928. The
exception was a few fields of vegetable along the coastal areas, and
there was a little sugarcane in the area of Marco Island and
Everglades City. They transported those by boat to wherever they
wanted to market them.
Citrus production prior to 1920 was limited to a small citrus
grove at Deep Lake, if you know where that's at. There was the
Roberts Ranch Grove in Immokalee, which this county has purchased
part of; my grandfather's grove in Felda, just north of Immokalee;
and a number of small groves along the coast in the Fort Myers area
and along the Caloosahatchee River.
So you can see that commercial ag was quite small. It wasn't
until 1928 when the Tamiami Trail was opened and the Atlantic
coastline came from Immokalee to Everglades City along with State
Road 29 that commercial vegetable production began. Prior to that
time, there just was no road infrastructure by which you could get
your produce marketed.
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September 26, 2001
The first major production or commercial production of
vegetables occurred in Collier County during the 1930s and '40s in
the Ochopee area. The growers utilized the native Ochopee marl
prairies. There was a lot of prairies along U.S. 41 and Highway 29
going up towards Immokalee where there was minimal or no land
clearing required. So these farmers would move onto those prairies
and do what we call wildcat farming. They just moved out there,
made a few beds, planted their produce, and grew the crops. This
area stretched all the way from Ochopee, if you know where Ochopee
used to be, all the way to Monroe Station. This area also extended
north along 29 almost to Alligator Alley. Alligator Alley, of course,
did not exist at that time.
The reason they grew the vegetables in that area is those soils
have a naturally high pH. They run around 7 1/2 to 8 1/2 pH.
Tomatoes were tolerant of that condition. In addition, the winter
temperatures were quite warm there. However, the crops were only
produced in the late winter and spring months because the area was
too wet for fall production. Also, there was no irrigation and almost
no water control. These soils have a very dense layer of Tamiami
limestone underlying the limited depth of usable soil there, and it just
wasn't economically feasible to blast the rock and create ditches in
other water-controlled facilities.
Commercial vegetable production occurred in the Ochopee area
on into the mid '50s. However, the vegetable production was very
nomadic because of the weeds and disease buildup that would occur
after a field was farmed. As a result of this nomadic movement, over
time nearly 35,000 acres of land in the Ochopee area had been
farmed for vegetables at one time or another.
It wasn't until just before and during World War II that the pine
and palmetto flatwoods were utilized for vegetable production. The
reason for this is that the pine and palmetto woods have a naturally
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September 26, 2001
low pH of about 4.0 to 4.5 -- sometimes below that level but most
generally in that range -- and vegetables could not be produced on
soils with a pH that low due to the aluminum toxicity that does occur.
Many of these pine and palmetto flatwood areas had features
that made them very useful. They were elevated above the swamp
lands, sloughs, and ponds, and didn't have rock under them except at
the deeper zones, and this would allow the farmers to dig rim ditches
and dikes around their farms so they could keep water from running
into the field, and by installing a throw-out pump they could throw
the excess water over the dike out into the swamps.
So basically you had a moat around your place, so to speak.
Many of these soils had a natural feature that made them very useful.
They had what we call a hard pan or a spodic zone. It's a layer of
organic material down around 35 or 48 inches, and you could perch
your water on top of this zone, and it made it easy to irrigate these
fields through seepage irrigation.
During the 1930s research by the University of Florida showed
that by applying finely Hi-Calcic limestone or Dolomitic limestones
to these soils, the pH could be raised to 6.0, and vegetable production
could be done on these soils. So during the late '30s and during
World War II, some limited production on the pine and palmetto
flatwoods did occur. But it wasn't until after World War II that
farmers began to make massive use of the pine and flatwood soils.
After World War II the farmers began to rapidly utilize these
pine and palmetto woods due to the advantage of the better water
control and the opportunity to produce fall, winter, and spring crops.
As a result the vegetables on the calcareous soils of the Ochopee area
began to decline in the late '40s and was pretty well gone by the
1950s. The old farm fields were abandoned, and hardly a trace of
those fields can be seen today due to the revegetation that's occurred.
If you had an opportunity to look at the 1950 aerials of that area, they
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September 26, 2001
were quite visible. But you probably would be hard-pressed to find
them today.
In the late 1940s, it was recognized by the Collier Board of
Commissioners here that the agricultural industry was an important
component of the area economy, so it created the County Agricultural
Cooperative Extension Department in 1950. The first county agent
was on board a few months, and he got the Immokalee State Farmers
Market started, but he died of a heart attack shortly after coming on
board.
Mr. Don Lander was appointed the county agent in 1951. One
of the first things he did was initiate the development of a soil survey
map. It was a joint effort between the University of Florida
Experimental Station and the United States Department of Soil
Conservation Service. As a result Collier County was a leader in this
field. It had the first soils map in Southwest Florida by 1951. There
wasn't another soils map created in Southwest Florida until the '70s.
The vegetable growers used this map extensively to pick out the
best flatwood soils because it still had to move around on a frequent
interval due to the buildup of weeds and diseases. It was very rare
that vegetables would be produced on the same field for more than
two years. After a vegetable farmer cleared and farmed the land for
one or two years, the field would be abandoned, and the cattle
industry would then move in and plant an improved grass on these
fields. In many cases it would be just left as an old farm field, and
we would revegetate mostly with common Bermuda grass.
We have an aerial photograph showing south of Immokalee.
That's Camp Keais Strand. Let's see if this reaches. That's Camp
Keais Strand right there. This is 2000. This is 1963. You'll see that
the active farm fields are a lighter color, and all of that open area has
been farmed at one time or another, and they were still rotating
around at that time to a large extent.
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September 26, 2001
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And Camp Keais Strand is in the
second one, in the '96 photo?
MR. TOWNSEND: It's there. I think Camp Keais has been
largely cut out of the second photo. I can't spot it. That's probably
the very edge of it right there. But that's supposed to be a cutaway of
the same area. I think if you follow the dotted line there and match it
with this line right here, and I'm not holding this thing too steady.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's all right.
MR. TOWNSEND: Anyway, Camp Keais is to the left, and it's
still there.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah.
MR. TOWNSEND: Beginning in the late '50s farmers would
sometimes go back on old farm fields after it had been out of
production for at least five years, and that was what was happening
right there on that one photograph. By the early '60s, though, it was
apparent that usable undeveloped pine palmetto flatwoods were
becoming scarce. Although there was still a large acreage of these,
they were confronted with some problems.
The undeveloped flatwood areas, a lot of them were situated on
very rocky soils that were near the surface. Another one, they were
not very accessible, and it was going to be very expensive for the
farmers to construct the road back into those areas. The size and
shape of these remaining flatwoods was not conducive to the
development of an efficient farm field. They would be horribly
shaped along the curved peninsulas, and they just couldn't make use
of them. Another thing that began to take its place or come into play
was the cost of clearing got to be very expensive.
As a result Don Lander, the extension director of Collier
County, initiated a new program down here, and that was the soil
fumigation and plastic mulch culture which we're all familiar with
today. That was to control the weeds and diseases in the early to mid
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September 26, 2001
'60s. In addition, this alleviated the cost of clearing land and moving
around so much. It cost quite a bit of money to a farmer to pack up
and leave and move somewhere else.
By the late '60s, the farmers had almost universally adopted the
soil fumigation and plastic mulch culture, and very little clearing of
flatwoods in Collier and Hendry Counties occurred after 1970.
According to the data that I had developed when I was a livestock
agent here, I found from 1940 to 1979 the vegetable industry had
cleared and developed over 175,000 acres of flatwoods and slough
areas in Collier County. The vast majority of this land clearing did
occur before 1970. In Hendry County the vegetable and sugarcane
cleared and developed over 250,000 acres in that same span of time.
It should be noted that the total vegetable acreage in Collier and
Hendry Counties has remained somewhat stable during the last 20
years varying from 25,000 to 35,000 annually. However, due to the
double-cropping system that has evolved -- for example, following a
fall crop of tomatoes with a crop of watermelons on that same acre in
the same crop year, there is probably not over eighteen to twenty-five
thousand actual acres of land being used for vegetables in any one
year.
The citrus industry did not move into Collier County until about
1960. That's another painting of an actual photograph. That's a
harvesting crew in Alva, Florida, which is one of the English family's
citrus groups there. We had a few small groves that were planted in
the Immokalee area there along 82, right there at the comer of 29 and
82, and one just south of town. Then also in that period of time in the
late '60s the Collier Company -- which has now been divided into
Collier Enterprises and Barron Collier Partnership, I think, and
Turner Corporation both each planted about a thousand acres of citrus
groves, and that was two of the largest early plantings of citrus in
Collier County.
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September 26, 2001
In '61 several large citrus developments began in northern
Hendry County. A. Duda and Sons and a group of Verry, Paul, and
Lawless took in about 25,000 acres up there. They didn't get it all
developed at one time. This was a process that went on over a period
of years. The citrus grove development was given a boost by the
freeze of 1962 which destroyed a large acreage of citrus in Central
Florida. In addition, the University of Florida research had shown
that flatwood soils could produce good citrus groves if adequate
water control was achieved.
According to the Florida Department of Ag statistics, Collier
County had 6,706 acres -- and we've got that graphic on the board
there -- of in 1980, and by the year 2000 they had 35,302. Hendry
County had a little over 30,000 in 1980, and by the year 2000, we had
just under 100,000 acres of citrus.
According to the data compiled by myself and others, the vast
majority -- and I'm going to estimate over 98 percent -- of the
expansion of the citrus industry in Collier and Hendry County from
1980 until 2000 occurred on the improved pastures and old farm
fields that had already been cleared and developed by the vegetable
industry. This expansion occurred as a result of the devastating
freezes that occurred in the 1980s that destroyed over 150,000 acres
of citrus in Central Florida.
In closing, the data clearly shows there's been a massive increase
in intensive agricultural production in Collier and Hendry Counties
during the last 20 years. However, the following points should be
remembered: Over 98 percent of the intensification has occurred on
lands that had already been developed by the vegetable industry and
were still being used by the vegetable industry for farming or by the
cattle industry as improved or semi-improved pastures.
The next point, the cattle industry took the full brunt of this
land-use intensification when huge areas of improved pastures and
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September 26, 2001
old farm fields were converted permanently to citrus or vegetable
production. This conversion amounted to 28,596 acres in Collier
County and 69,351 acres in Hendry County for a total of about
97,947 acres. This conversion caused a vast reduction of the cattle
industry in both counties.
It can be seen by the fact in 1980 there were 40,000
head-of-brood cows in Collier County, and in 2000 there was 13,000
heads. Hendry County had 110,000 heads, the largest beef cattle
county in the state at that time. Today it has about 55,000 heads. So
this stocking rate had to be reduced tremendously when you took the
best land out of the cattle operation.
I'll be very happy to try to answer any questions you might have.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Townsend, if I understand
right, what you're saying is it's not viable for the farmer to farm on
wetlands or they haven't farmed converted wetlands into farming
because of the economics, or am I mistaken?
MR. TOWNSEND: Vegetable farmers have used some of what
I call the higher-level sloughs for farming. Those had already been
developed many years ago, and they were the cheapest to use. But as
far as rooting up a cypress tree, almost none of that occurred.
Sometimes a farmer may have a few fringe trees around a swamp that
he might take out to square up a walkway or something like that, but
farmers generally did not attempt to go into wetlands because the
water-control issues were so costly to deal with.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
MR. TOWNSEND: You're welcome.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Before you leave I just -- I guess, in
quick summary for me, what it verifies -- even though I'm a city boy
and my families both came from farming backgrounds, we've now
put together what my grandfather said, "There's only a certain amount
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September 26, 2001
of acreage that ever can be used well for farm production," whether
it's what you have related -- whether it's cattle, whether it's
vegetables, or citrus or however you rotate it, there's a limited
capacity in which you can farm because of the economics. MR. TOWNSEND: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: What you have provided for me is an
excellent history lesson that people knowing nothing about any of
these things just intuitively knew by what they could get from the
soils where to go and how to do it and over time whether to rotate it
or use something else. We ended up with this block of land that we
continue to use.
MR. TOWNSEND: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir.
MR. TOWNSEND: If you look at some of the old aerial
photographs, you'll find that some of these farmers did make some
mistakes. They formed an area that couldn't be irrigated. After
learning that lesson, they never came back to it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: One other question. We used to be
-- years ago I have been told that we were about second in cattle
production in the U.S. Where do we stand now?
MR. TOWNSEND: Florida is still 9th. It varies between 9th
and 10th from year to year. We're second east of the Mississippi
River. So we're still a major cattle-producing state. We have about 2
million heads in this state.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you for that little
Immokalee history there --
· CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- that needs to be preserved
somehow, too, and I'm sure it will be as part of all of this process.
Thank you for that.
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September 26, 2001
MR. TOWNSEND: My pleasure, Commissioners, and I
appreciate the opportunity to talk to you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It was very interesting.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Commissioner Mac'Kie, if you
have interest in the history of Immokalee--
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I've read them.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- The Ox Cart Trail.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The Ox Cart Trail.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I would highly recommend it.
It's by Maria Stone. It's an excellent book. I have a copy I'll lend to
any commissioner that would like to read it.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I recommend it to everybody
too. I have read it. It's a fascinating story.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We're ready for the next one, Mr.
Olliff. I know there's another great publication. It was -- the
characters were fictional. I can't remember the name of the book, but
it does take you through the whole history of Florida on the same
thing. They used to call them drovers, the cattle cowboys. It's
fascinating. It goes all the way prior to the Civil War. Anybody that
wants to go back and read some of that, you'll find Florida is and was
a great cattle state.
MR. OLLIFF: We'll finish up on No. 5, Mr. Chairman, with
Tom Spreen.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. No. 5, Agriculture past,
present, and future, Tom Spreen will continue our history lesson.
MR. SPREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Tom
Spreen. I'm from the University of Florida in Gainesville. It's a
pleasure to be here this morning in front of the County Commission.
I can say this is the first time I've ever spoke in front of the County
Commission, so it's a new experience for me.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Welcome.
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September 26, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Welcome.
MR. SPREEN: Thank you. I wish I could tell you that we had a
good football team this year, but since we haven't played anybody
yet, we'll find out this weekend. Hopefully we have a good football
team.
I've been asked to speak, I think, more about the position of
Collier County not only in Florida agriculture, but in world
agriculture. As Mr. Townsend already mentioned this morning, the
most important agricultural crops in Collier County are citrus,
vegetables, and beef cattle. However, Collier County is what
economists would call a price-taker for all of these crops. Its
production is not sufficient to influence the price. Therefore, cost
increases cannot be passed on through price increases.
Beef cattle are produced throughout Florida, but in this area in
particular I would characterize beef cattle as low input, low return. In
other words, ranchers do not invest a lot of money in pasture land
and, as a result, there's not a high return realized from that enterprise.
All right. Let's put together a proposal and let's say that you
were given an opportunity to be given one section or 640 acres of
fully producing citrus grove, and you're even guaranteed that you
were going to receive $1.5 million a year in revenue.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You wish.
MR. SPREEN: It appears to be a nice deal.
Would you accept?
Well, before we decide whether that's a good deal or not, let's
consider the cost of producing citrus in South Florida. The fixed
investment -- that's for the equipment as well as the land as well as
property taxes to help pay for the operations of Collier County -- run
about $2,900 an acre per year for tomatoes and about $600 an acre
per year for citrus, most of which is oranges.
Then in addition to that, there are growing costs for fertilizer, for
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September 26, 2001
labor, for new plants in the case of tomatoes, plus the crop has to be
harvested. That's all done by hand for both vegetables and for citrus.
Growing costs for tomatoes run approximately $4,500 per acre, and
then in addition to that there's another $5,000 per acre for harvesting
and packing.
For citrus the grove care -- just for the care of the trees; not
planting new trees, but just the care of the trees -- runs about $800 an
acre, and harvesting is an additional $1,000 an acre. Of course, that
depends somewhat on the size of the crop.
So, therefore, just to cover those costs, which total
approximately $12,400 a year for tomatoes and about $2,400 a year
for citrus, 1,400 cartons is a pretty good average for the State of
Florida for tomato production, and actually 400 to 500 boxes in this
part of Florida is actually probably a little on the high side. We also
measure citrus in terms of the juice content, and so that "p.s." refers
to what's called pound solid or basically the gallons of orange juice in
a box of oranges.
So growers are paid on a pound-solid basis, so a break-even
price for citrus is about 80 to 85 cents per pound solid or
approximately per gallon, single strength, which equates to about $5
to $6 a box delivered to the processing plant. For tomatoes a similar
number was just under $9 a cart. Therefore, citrus requires an annual
financial commitment of about $2,400 per acre. Thus, to cover costs
for 640 acres of citrus would require an annual revenue of not 1.5
million, but $1,536,000 per year.
Therefore, even though we were to give you this citrus grove
and guarantee you revenues of 1.5 million per year, you would, in
fact, lose on average $36,000 per year thereafter. So, therefore,
agricultural production is a business. People are not in agriculture
because necessarily they like the lifestyle or because they want to
spend money. They're trying to, in fact, secure their financial well-
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September 26, 2001
being. And for crops such as citrus and vegetables, the investment
needed is substantial. I mean, it's even much greater than a corn or
soybean farmer in the Midwest.
And, again, local growers have no influence over market
demands so, therefore, as price -- excuse me -- as cost increases are
passed upon them through environmental controls, labor costs,
increases in minimum wage, they can't necessarily pass those costs
along as I'll say Intel can with the dominance that it has in the
marked-chip market. Therefore, this statement goes without saying.
Agriculture can really only remain viable as long as growers receive
a reasonable return on their investment.
Okay. Let's talk just a little bit about the citrus industry, because
Florida is an important citrus-producing state. In fact, it's the second
largest citrus-producing region in the world. The state of Sao Paulo
in Brazil, as you probably know, is the largest. Florida was the
largest region until the freezes of the 1980s. That spurred a major
expansion of citrus in Brazil. Recently with the growth of production
here in South Florida, Florida's production has recovered and, in fact,
exceeds levels that were realized before the freezes of the '80s, but it
still ranks second as a citrus-producing area.
Citrus is, of course, produced throughout central and south
Florida. Polk County, the Lakeland area, and Hendry are the two
largest citrus producing counties in the state. Actually, I was just
looking at it. Now the 2000-2001 numbers are out. Collier County
produced, I think, 12.6 million boxes of citrus in 1999-2000, but I
still think they will maintain their ranking as the 9th most important
citrus-producing county in Florida.
The main varieties produced in Florida are oranges, grapefruit,
and tangerines; however, almost all of the orange crop is processed
into orange juice. California, of course, is the dominant supplier of
fresh oranges into the U.S. Market; however, tangerines and certain
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September 26, 2001
varieties such as navels and tangelos, in particular, are produced for
the fresh market, but their production is relatively small and
especially in this area.
Grapefruit production is pretty well split between fresh and
processed. Grapefruit prices have been very depressed for a number
of years. A considerable amount of grapefruit production is also sent
overseas to Japan as well as to Europe. The main import suppliers of
orange juice -- the most important citrus product of Florida-- are
Brazil and also Mexico, which benefits to some extent from NAFTA,
Costa Rica and Belize, which benefit from what was known as the
Caribbean Basin Initiative that was passed in the late 1980s.
As Mr. Townsend noted, the citrus industry here is relatively
young. Citrus was grown here, but the freezes of the '80s were the
impetus that caused a southward move of citrus. Really, we even had
citrus in Alachua County up by Gainesville. That citrus is all gone.
Marion County, Ocala, Leesburg, most of that has now moved down
in this area, and Mr. Townsend mentioned a rapid conversion of what
had been cattle pasture into citrus groves.
Here to kind of just give you a feel for the relative growth of this
area, you can see that Collier County has now, in fact, 4 1/2 times the
area in citrus than it had in 1982; whereas, the total production area in
Florida is basically the same. It basically has the same acreage today
that we had before the freezes visited us. The Southwest Florida
area, in general, is about three times as large as it was before the
freezes.
The production of citrus in Collier County is just under 4
percent of the citrus produced in Florida. So even though there's a lot
of citrus trees out there around Immokalee, there's a lot of other citrus
trees throughout the state.
We've mentioned this before, so I don't think I'll beat on this
again, but because of its relatively small position they're not able to
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September 26, 2001
establish the price that they're going to charge for their crop. There
are also no processing plants down in this area, and that's a concern
for a couple of reasons. There's a small processing plant, of course,
in LaBelle. There's the Southern Garden plant over by Clewiston.
But there's been a tremendous consolidation in the citrus
processing industry, especially just in the last few years. I believe
this next season we will only have 11 different companies processing
oranges in Florida. That number was 27 different companies in
1989-1990. So there are now fewer buyers out there for citrus and
especially for oranges. Orange producers will have to work harder to
find people to buy their fruit.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Excuse me, sir. Didn't one of the
major processors expand operations here recently in Florida? Did I
read that correctly in the U.S. Today or the Wall Street Journal?
MR. SPREEN: Yes, there has. As there's been a consolidation,
a number of the companies have, in turn, expanded their plants. The
Tropicana plant over in Fort Pierce is much bigger than it had been
before. When the Brazilian entity, Cutrale, bought the old Minute
Maid plant up by Lakeland, that plant was in somewhat of disrepair.
They came in and made investments and expanded the capacity of
that plant. So the overall capacity to process citrus probably isn't
much different today than it was before. There's simply fewer
individual buyers than there were before.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
MR. SPREEN: Okay. I wanted to mention the disease threats
because canker, in particular, has been in the news, especially over on
the east coast. There's another disease called diaprapes. It's actually a
weevil that attacks the roots of the plant. Tristeza is another disease
that is killing citrus fruits here in Florida. The fruit fly -- cross our
fingers -- is not a problem at the present time, but it has been known
to visit us from time to time in the past.
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September 26, 2001
Canker, in particular, is a dangerous disease because, as you
well know, once canker is found, all trees, under policy, within a
1900-foot radius are destroyed. That's about a 260 block of land
where all the trees are pushed to and burned. Let's hope that it
doesn't happen, but if canker were to become established and the
state could no longer pursue its irradication policy, it most certainly
would impose a quarantine on producers that had canker in their
region, which limits the ability to move that citrus any distances.
Freezes, of course, are what stimulated the move of citrus into
this area, and it's important to note that another random weather event
-- we had a mini version of that, of course, here just a week ago --
could spell its demise throughout the state. In fact, in this part of the
state, really too much rainfall is the weather problem that the growers
face instead of freezes.
Labor costs in Florida are also substantially higher than its
competitors. We identified the competitors as Brazil, Mexico,
Belize, and Costa Rica. Growers here must pay the federal minimum
wage. However, they are developing a mechanical harvester. In fact,
it's a very interesting device. If that, in fact, is able to be implemented
successfully -- and it appears it might well be -- that certainly would
offer some relief for the labor-cost disadvantage, but it would also
mean there would be fewer pickers that would be employed, and it
would reduce the employment of the citrus industry.
I'll throw up Cuba. Even though Cuba is a minor citrus producer
-- I should say a moderate citrus producer, about 25 million boxes of
production, they are an important producer of grapefruit. The
grapefruit groves in Florida have had extensive difficulties the last six
or eight years anyway. In some ways the last thing they need is to
have to compete directly with the Cubans.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think an interesting fact is if you tie a
couple pieces together, the Far East is a very big market for fresh.
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September 26, 2001
Japanese --
MR. SPREEN: Japan is, yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The Chinese have a very big presence
in Cuba. So you have to let your mind work a little bit. They're a lot
closer to Japan than we are, so if they can develop a network to
develop that quicker than we can, it presents an economic challenge
to us. So that's one I think we always have to keep our minds on.
MR. SPREEN: That's a good point. Let's mm our interest here
to vegetables very quickly. I'm more of a citrus expert than I am a
vegetable expert, so I'll be less long-winded.
Florida is the primary domestic supplier of fresh vegetables to
the U.S. Market in what's known as the winter period, but it actually
extends from November to May. The Mexicans are the main
competitors. And as you well know, the Mexicans have been
competing very successfully with Florida. However, we've also seen
hothouse tomatoes from Canada of all places. We can't successfully
grow hothouse tomatoes in the midwestern United States, but we can
grow them in Canada for some reason not currently known.
I've just put a map up here of vegetable summary to give you a
feel for where vegetables are grown in Florida, and then the
Collier/Lee County area has been highlighted there in the box. You
can see vegetables are up and down the state, but really the most
important areas are over on the east coast in Palm Beach and Dade
County in this area and then up in the Manatee County area and
what's known as the Ruskin area.
Here's the shares of the different -- of course, fruit and
vegetables. Because of the importance of citrus, things like
watermelons and strawberries get lumped in with vegetables. But
you can see that tomatoes are the driver of the vegetable industry in
Florida. It still accounts for nearly 30 percent of the revenues. Bell
peppers are No. 2 at about 15 percent. So if you're in the vegetable
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September 26, 2001
business, in all likelihood you're in the tomato and bell pepper
business.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: This is Florida, though; right?
MR. SPREEN: This is Florida, yes, ma'am. But that would also
be true in the grocery store in general. Tomatoes are, I believe, the
highest revenue product in the grocery store.
Here's a graph of tomato acreage in Collier County and
Southwest Florida. Actually, as Mr. Townsend has alluded to, it's
recovered somewhat after being hit very strongly after the peso
devalued and the Mexicans came in with large quantities of tomatoes
in the mid 1990s.
Bell pepper production looks similar. It's smaller in this area
even though this is an important window for bell peppers in this area.
With Mexico, Canada, and now, of course, we get those little on-the-
vine tomatoes from Holland that are, in fact, flown in here, Florida
now not only has to keep the Mexicans on the radar screen, but also
other regions as well.
While it's clear that Mexico likely has a lower cost structure due
to lower labor costs, our best guess is the producers in Canada and
Holland probably receive some kind of subsidies from their
governments. There really is no subsidy. There's no price support.
There's no subsidized capital. They have to cover their full cost of
production of vegetables in this country.
Florida produces also use methyl bromide. Mr. Townsend
referred to the use of the plastic mulch in fumigation. Methyl
bromide, I expect it to be an ozone depleter, and under the provisions
of the Clean Air Act it is being phased from use, and I believe it's to
be eliminated by 2010. To date there has not yet been a good
alternative identified for methyl bromide, even though people in
Gainesville and elsewhere are working hard on that. Labor costs are
very important in vegetables, and we've seen continuing increases in
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September 26, 2001
the minimum wage.
Another problem that's affected both citrus and vegetables has
been this so-called registration of minor-use chemicals. I call them
"minor use" because it's used on crops with smaller acreages such as
tomatoes or peppers or watermelons. Some chemical companies are
simply refusing to go through the process of doing a registration
because the market is not big enough to justify the cost of the
registration.
Cuba was, in fact, the main supplier of vegetables to the eastern
United States before the embargo was imposed in 1959. So in a post-
embargo environment it's possible that Cuba, in fact, could
reestablish itself. I know for a fact, for example, that Florida
strawberry growers are looking to identify places potentially to grow
strawberries in Cuba. It's very possible that in a post-embargo
environment you would see Cuba and Mexico become the ones
fighting over the U.S. Market in the wintertime and Florida might, in
fact, find itself on the sidelines.
Beef cattle, Mr. Townsend had a different number. My number
was 7,000 beef cows, but it's down considerably. Collier County
really kind of ranks in the middle of the 67 counties. There's about a
million brood cows in Florida which, I think, still does rank it second
of the states east of the Mississippi.
The main output from the beef cattle operations, of course, are
feeder calves. Calves are weaned at about six months of age.
Typically, then, they're put on a truck and sent somewhere in the
Midwest-- Kansas, Oklahoma, the panhandle of Texas -- where
they're put into a feedlot and fattened. And then, of course, some of
that beef then comes back as meat that we consume. As we noted
before, beef cattle production is low input, low return.
There are some challenges from imports to Mexico. The cattle
produced here in South Florida have a certain amount of brum and
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September 26, 2001
breeding in them because they tolerate heat. Mexico produces a
similar kind of beef cow. So, therefore, there is some competition,
although it has not become a strong competition as of yet.
Of course, we know there's been a stagnant demand for beef.
Marginal producing areas such as Florida tend to be adversely
affected. Of course, we're in a period today of good cattle prices.
Cattle producers are receiving good prices, but cattle production, of
course, does tend to follow these cycles.
The financial risks borne by cattle producers compared to citrus
and vegetable producers is quite small. We talked about thousands of
dollars required to produce vegetables -- $2,500 an acre, $2,400 an
acre in citrus. In a cattle operation, it would be more in the hundreds
of dollars or even less.
I'm not that familiar with the proposed stormwater fees, but
when I first came down here six months ago I heard a lot about the
stormwater fees that was being proposed. Even a cost of 20 or 30
dollars an acre might be enough to tilt cattle production from being a
viable operation to a nonviable economic operation.
I don't want to scare anybody, but we certainly have seen
Europe's cattle industry suffer tremendous problems in the last few
years. Mad cow disease has devastated not only England, but the
continent. Of course, they've also discovered hoof-and-mouth
disease. Those cows are all being slaughtered as a way to irradicate
that disease.
We wer now coming down the stretch. Collier County, of
course, has experienced a boom. Florida does compete with
low-labor-cost countries like Brazil, Mexico, Belize, and Costa Rica.
In fact, Florida is really able to survive in citrus because the United
States is still the world's largest market for citrus, and it sits on the
doorstep of that market.
Cuba could potentially become a player in citrus or vegetables if
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September 26, 2001
the embargo were removed. The vegetable industry has suffered
through a very tough decade in the '90s -- it has recovered somewhat
-- due to weather problems. With Mexico it also faces new
challenges and from Canada and Holland.
Beef cattle production has been a standby for this area, although
its cattle numbers are down substantially as land has been converted
into higher-value crops. Beef cattle production is low input, low
return. We just completed a study at the University that estimated
that the total economic impact of citrus industry on Florida was in
excess of $9 billion. That's not only in direct employment and
indirect employment in terms of input, harvesting, processing, and
packaging. Because it's a low input and low return, cattle producers
are highly vulnerable to small increases in costs, even on the order of
20 to 30 dollars an acre.
I'm going to philosophize for just a second. We're having the
same discussion in Alachua County. Alachua County has not grown
anywhere near the rate that Collier County has, but we're having
exactly the same discussion that you're having here. There's a lot of
controversy over these kinds of issues.
I think the point of my presentation is that agricultural does face
a tenuous future. It's not assured -- there are many changes going on
around it. I haven't even mentioned the free trade areas of the
Americas which would create a free-trade zone in the western
hemisphere and have the effect of removing the tariff on orange juice
imported from Brazil increasing regulation, labor costs, and so forth.
Without profit there will be no agriculture. I'm sure we'll figure
out some way to work this out, because we all want to eat, and we
want to eat not only safe food that we know was produced in a safe
way, but also food that's reasonably priced. If I could answer any questions ...
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Questions by members of the board.
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September 26, 2001
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Spreen, if I'm
understanding you right, the citrus farmers are losing $36,000 per
section per year?
MR. SPREEN: No, that's not what I said.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MR. SPREEN: That's not what I said. I said even if they
realized revenues of 1.5 million, which one of your fellow
commissioners, I think, said is a pretty good deal, that even revenues
of that size or that magnitude would not be sufficient to cover all
their costs. Obviously in the late '80s and early '90s citrus producers
were making a very good return, and that's why they planted all this
land here in this area.
This last season was a very bad season. Prices were quite low
last season. I'm a small citrus grower myself up in Lee County and,
in fact, I lost many -- I started growing citrus. I don't know why I
bought it, but I did.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You hadn't seen that example
there about --
MR. SPREEN: You're obviously right. I bought it before I saw
the example. That's absolutely correct. I think what the point is,
even though Florida is a large producer and second largest producer
in the world, what goes on in other regions, notably Brazil, has very
much of an impact on the profitability of the citrus industry here.
Last year Brazil was simply giving its orange juice away in Europe,
and that spilled over and created very low prices here.
Now, the good news is that this year Brazil's profit appears to be
much smaller. In fact, prices have begun to recover. But, no, they
have not lost that $36,000 on a year-after-year basis, no, sir.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And another dimension is, if you're
big you do not make your money on the production side; you make it
on the packing side. That's the only way you can possibly recoup
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September 26, 2001
anything to stay in business. But you have to be big to be in a
diversified operation where you can pick and have an interest in the
packing side where sometimes you can recoup your losses. But it's
not for everybody. Somebody like you may not have that culpability.
MR. SPREEN: Actually, most of the producers in this county
would not be in the packing business. They do not own packing and
processing facilities. Collier Enterprises, for example, is not in the
packing business. Of course, Consolidated, which bought up the
Turner properties, is not in the packing business. So citrus is
somewhat peculiar in that way in that most of the processing plants
are owned by entities that are separated from the entities that own the
groves.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What do you see as the future
for agriculture here in Collier County judging by the economic
conditions out there that we have little control over?
MR. SPREEN: I would suggest that when methyl bromide is
eventually eliminated, vegetable producers will have a difficult time
in Florida. As Mr. Townsend mentioned in his talk -- and he
described it very well -- the nomadic style of agriculture that was
used here in vegetable production in the 1960s is not viable anymore.
There's too many people here. There's not enough good agricultural
land out there to grow vegetables on. So vegetables are in a very
difficult situation, I believe.
Citrus on the other hand -- I think certainly as long as the orange
juice tariff is maintained, as we said, Florida still sits on the doorstep
of the largest market in the world. The United States still consumes
more orange juice than any other place in the world, and so it gives it
a major advantage and access into the market. The big marketing
operations are here, Tropicana, Florida's Natural, and even Minute
Maid still bases its operations here. So it has a tremendous
advantage, although it creates strong challenges from other regions.
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September 26, 2001
The university also plays an important role, because a lot of the
diseases that tend to attack these high-value crops, there's a
tremendous amount of research that goes on that finds ways to
combat these diseases. So citrus is a very different kind of entity.
Beef cattle will tend to be an operation that operates more in the
fringes because it is such a low return, but also low cost. It would be
wrong to say that beef cattle will disappear from this area unless you
simply make it so costly for cattle producers that it makes no sense to
go ahead and maintain that land and cattle. The cattle will probably
always exist here in Florida because we have land that tends to be
marginal land. The weather is somewhat erratic and so, therefore,
you don't want to invest a lot of money into that land. Cattle can kind
of scrounge around and make due on marginal land.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: One more question.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Would you say it's a fair
statement that the ag industry would be more sustainable here in
Collier County if government would not put so much regulation on
the ag lands or the farmer?
MR. SPREEN: Well, there's no question that regulation, I think
-- and I'll say in the large -- so we're not talking regulation from
Collier County or regulations from the State of Florida or even
regulations from the federal government. But the regulatory
environment in the United States, although it may not on the books
be all that much stronger than the regulatory environment in Mexico
or Brazil or other competitors, it's simply enforced much more
vigorously here.
So, for example, I can go and find teenagers harvesting citrus in
Brazil. I mean, I've seen it with my own eyes. It, in fact, happens.
In fact, I've had conversations through a translator with teenagers
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September 26, 2001
harvesting citrus in Mexico. If you're caught with teenagers
harvesting citrus in Florida, you would be fined and may well face a
prison term.
So the enforcement process here is much stronger. These other
countries have environmental and labor laws that are quite similar to
ours, but they simply don't yet have the apparatus developed to be
able to enforce them or maybe, for that matter, the political will to
enforce them vigorously.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you very much, sir. I think it's
a good time -- because we're going to move over and look at the
environmental assets of the area and our magic fingers down there is
probably going crazy, so we will break for 15, and then we'll come
back and continue the workshop. Thank you.
(A break was held from 10:20 a.m. To 10:30 a.m.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Ladies and gentlemen,
members of our listening audience, we are back in session. We are
now on Item 6, which is the environmental assets of the area. If
you're just tuning in, we've had a very good overview of the history
of this and the economic impacts, and now we're going to the
environmental assets of the area. Mr. Tim Durham and Bill Lorenz
will take us through that.
MR. DURHAM: Good morning. My name is Tim Durham.
Bill and I have coordinated a little bit, and I think we've agreed that
I'll do most of the presentation here, and Bill's available for questions
if you have any.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
MR. DURHAM: Primarily I'll be doing an overview of the
Stage 1 report that came out for the study area and the environmental
assets within that. The primary goals we have from the
environmental perspective is to inventory and accurately map
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September 26, 2001
existing environmental resources. That effort has been completed
and is the subject of the Stage 1 report. I encourage everybody to
take a look at it if you haven't already.
As we move forward, we'll be looking for ways to protect listed
animal and plant species and establishing long-term strategies to
protect critical resources in the study area. Those are our goals.
This is a 1980s aerial of the study area, and I just want to point
out some general features of the area, and I'll talk about them in a
little more detail. Again, you have Lake Trafford here. Camp Keais
Strand's running southward and flowing towards the south. The
Okaloacoochee Slough works its way down south through here and
down to the Fakahatchee Strand and south. The Florida Panther
National Wildlife Refuge is down in this area. All right. Then the
lighter tones you see are the agricultural land cover which are
extensive in the study area.
It's important for us to recognize that whatever study we do in a
regional context is something we must always be aware of. From
here you can see the various public acquisition programs or
conservation programs are in place. The study area being located
here, this is some public lands that have been purchased for the
Okaloacoochee Slough system. This is some of the Corkscrew
system which is owned actually, not publicly, but by the Audubon.
Some of the public lands in the CREW system are over here, and then
Camp Keais Strand, one of the targeted areas, is there.
Again, zooming in a little closer you can see a little more detail
on that. As we did the study, it was very important to generate some
accurate maps to inventory and identify the natural resources that
were out there. Previous studies have been done on kind of a gross
basis. We thought it was very important to be more finite in the way
we looked at things.
1995 aerials were used as the base. They were analyzed in some
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September 26, 2001
considerable detail, remapped. There was some shifting done to the
mapping. And field reconnaissance was then done on a scientific
basis. The amount of field reconnaissance and correction to the
mapping exceeded national mapping standards. It has been very well
received by the technical advisory committee which was mentioned
in the video before. So we feel we're starting with a very accurate
base set of information and data.
Within the study area -- I'm sorry, Ken, if you would please go
back. What you have mapped here is the existing wetland vegetation
communities out there. You will hear for the balance of today some
discussion about land cover and land use. Those are two slightly
different things. Land cover deals with what is the physical
vegetation or physical structure on the piece of property. Land use
may be a little bit different. You may have some areas that are
vegetated which actually have some agricultural use, for example. So
there are some slight differences in the numbers depending on if
you're speaking of land cover or land use.
Within the study area, basically 75,000 acres are wetland
communities as shown here in the green. Also, within the study area
are approximately 20,000 acres of uplands. Again, from the
agricultural presentation you heard earlier, this shouldn't be too
surprising. Again, if an area had some upland characteristic to it, it
has been converted to agricultural land use for the most part. So
combining the two, this is what we have out there in terms of native
vegetation. The gray color represents agricultural cover. So about 48
percent of the study area is native community at this point.
One of the other important considerations in dealing with any
kind of ecological system is the water, the water involved. Lake
Trafford is kind of the head of the host for a lot of different systems
in Southwest Florida. Some of the water flows to the west from this
area, but also in certain conditions a lot of the water flows to the
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September 26, 2001
south down through Camp Keais Strand. Likewise, the
Okaloacoochee Slough provides water flowing from the north all the
way to Lehigh Acres at times down through the system and
ultimately the Fakahatachee Strand and Ten Thousand Islands.
They're all connected.
These cross-hatched areas here are permitted water retention
areas that are part of the agricultural activity. It's important to
recognize those systems because they are part of the infrastructure of
agriculture. They are an important part of the operation.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And if you overlayed those
maps on those wetland ground-cover maps, I mean, that's essentially
where the wetlands remain.
MR. DURHAM: Excellent point.
get you pretty close to that.
that.
My next slide, I think, will
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sorry.
MR. DURHAM: Thanks for setting that up so well. I appreciate
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You're welcome.
MR. DURHAM: Exactly. If you take a lot of the things that
showed up on the wetland map and put the retention areas on top of
them, what you'll find is a lot of those are the same. What you have
is these areas discharging into some of these backbone wetland
systems that are out there.
Just kind of a few general pictures for you, but moving, if you
will, from west to east across our study area, the Camp Keais Strand
has some very defined deeper parts of it which are absolutely
gorgeous. They have lots of water and good healthy systems that are
in there. As you move a little bit towards the east from there, you
start getting into areas that are very expansive agriculture, you know,
section upon section, mile upon mile, of monolithic agriculture with
some mixes in there. We're on the edge of one of those systems now.
Page 3 5
September 26, 2001
Some mix of natural habitat's in here, but these are fairly well
surrounded by some agricultural activity.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Would that be an example of,
like, a cypress dome or something that had to be preserved?
MR. DURHAM: Most likely at the time this was done it didn't
have to be preserved, but because it was lower with the soil types in
it, it was easier to farm around it than to go into it. Sometimes these
kind of areas are used to pump water into. That one's a bit small in
this case but, yeah, that is an example of a cypress dome included in
an ag area.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Interesting.
MR. DURHAM: As you go over towards the Okaloacoochee
Slough, you start picking up much more open pasture lands with
native communities mixed in there. When you hear about the
Okaloacoochee Slough being a major conduit of water from north to
south, you kind of picture this cypress kind of system. This is actually
the main flow or the center portion of the Okaloacoochee Slough
flow area just east of 29. This is a local bridge that's used by the
agricultural activity as you get over this lower point here. At the
Okaloacoochee Slough, the water works its way down to a series of
wetlands and through pastures and through ditches. It's really kind of
an interesting system as opposed to Camp Keais Strand which is
more defined.
Wildlife species, one of the charges we have is to be considering
the habitat and protection of wildlife species. There's a real mixture
of species that occur out in the study area. A few of them here are
identified. These are current points that are compiled by the Florida
Natural Areas Inventory and Fish & Wildlife Commission in using
their current data points updating those as they come online.
An important point to note here is that the different points or
current points you see primarily occur in the existing natural areas
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September 26, 2001
and predominantly in some of the healthier systems. They do occur
in some of the stormwater management systems and even do occur
occasionally in some of the agricultural fields. There may be some
pumping going on, some water elevation changes in the agricultural
fields, and some of the wading birds do come in and use those areas.
So depending on where you are and what species you're talking
about, there's a real mixture of uses out here.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Those dots indicate a
particular --
MR. DURHAM: They do, and there's a legend that goes with
this. It just gets so hard to see when it's reproduced up here.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I understand.
MR. DURHAM: But, yeah, several of these species as well as a
few others are what we're indicating here.
The Florida panther, that's always a popular topic. This shows
the telemetry points -- or basically Southwest Florida are the little red
dots. They're history points forever. What you end up seeing here is
a real concentration of points in an area down here, and that's been
historically called the core of the panther population. There are a fair
number of points that move up this way, a few up this way, and some
scattered down here in the different lands.
There's a few points up in here in the Corkscrew/Alico Road
area as well. There's an article in today's paper about that. An
interesting thing to note is what we're finding out with the current
science of the panther is that to have a sustainable panther population
in perpetuity we're going to need about 250 panthers.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And we have now 80?
MR. DURHAM: He have roughly 88 -- let's say 80 south of the
Caloosahatchee River, and that number goes up and down depending
on a few things. But what that really tells us, we cannot save the
Florida panther population in Southwest Florida. We can be a big
Page 37
September 26, 2001
part of that solution, but we, ourselves, cannot be that solution.
Historically it was believed that the Caloosahatchee River
formed a barrier to panthers moving north and south. It's kind of a
genetic divide, if you will. The last few years it actually turned out
that several male panthers have swam across the Caloosahatchee
River and moved north, which is encouraging. But the bottom line is,
the resolution for the panther issue is not just a South Florida
problem. There's going to be a discussion over the next year about
reintroducing panthers to other parts of Florida, including the
panhandle, etc., so there's evolving thoughts on that. It's very
interesting.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: How many acres do you need per
panther?
MR. DURHAM: Twenty-two to twenty-seven thousand is one
of the numbers that's been thrown around. I think that's debatable to
some degree, but it gives you an idea of the magnitude we're talking
about.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's per panther?
MR. DURHAM: Correct, with some overlap between different
panthers. It's a fairly complex issue. My main point here is it ranges
beyond just what we're doing here in Southwest Florida.
MR. OLLIFF: I hope they're overlapping. Otherwise, we
wouldn't have little baby panthers.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Good point.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: He's a newlywed.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: His mind travels quickly in that
direction.
MR. DURHAM: I thought it was a very upbeat, happy
comment.
This is zooming in a little bit more, and you can kind of get an
idea. Since the beginning of recording panther telemetry points,
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September 26, 2001
here's what a distribution of those dots means. Recognize sometimes
when you see a whole bunch of dots in an area it doesn't mean that
there's 50 panthers there. It's only that over time different ones have
moved through that area.
Some of the other things to recognize is some of the panther
movement here, actually, you would think, is like this. Some of these
dots are actually connecting to movements that occurred like this.
Some other things that gets interesting when you analyze individual
panthers rather than just a collection of dots is that -- you would think
from this exhibit that Camp Keais Strand is a major north/south
connection for them. It's actually not. The panther is actually moving
up and out here, and there's been some movement like this before, but
not up-and-down movements. So that's just some interesting things
you get from analyzing some of those things.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I made that assumption.
MR. DURHAM: It's a little hard to see the dots here, but I did
want a slide to show you just panther telemetry in the last five years.
One of the main points I want to make here is some wildlife
underpasses have been installed on 29. You may have heard about
those. Those have been very successful. There have not been any
panther roadkills in the area there since the underpasses have gone in,
and that's true for other areas where underpasses have gone in.
They've been very effective in reducing panther-road mortality.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: How do they know to go under
them?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Little signs.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: They're smarter than people.
MR. DURHAM: Fencing. Yeah, little signs. No, there's some
fencing along the road. Also these are placed in locations that they
tend to use.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE.' It's the only choice they have.
Page 39
September 26, 2001
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, I see.
MR. DURHAM: So in closing I just want to point out a few
things. Within the study area, the predominant land use and land
cover is agriculture. There are extensive natural areas out there.
There are some key components of those, the Camp Keais Strand and
Okaloacoochee Slough. There are some naturally vegetated water
retention areas which have ecological value. This is a very big area
we're talking about studying.
I can take you out there and stand you in a place where you see
nothing but native vegetation, and you think you are just in some
wonderful eden. Ten minutes later I can take you somewhere in the
helicopter and drop you off somewhere, and you can stand in the
middle of an agricultural area and see nothing but ag as far as the eye
can see. So when we talk about characterizing a study area, it's very
important to know where you are and what resources we're talking
about. That's why we feel very good about the mapping effort we've
done to date. That's a critical component of this study. If we can all
agree on where things are and what they are, we're off to a good start.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have to just say, too, that
having been here when we were deciding whether or not we were
going to, you know, enter into this effort, the improvement of'
information data over what we had then versus what we have now in
this very short amount of time -- and it's basically what's being
reported to us today.
For example, the very best maps that we had before these -- I got
driven out and said, "Okay. See this giant wetland it says you're in
the middle of," and you're in the middle of a giant farm field. I mean,
they were completely inaccurate. It was really, really poor, but it was
the very best data that we had. If nothing else came out of this whole
exercise, we're already just so successful in having obtained this
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September 26, 2001
information and mapped out the existing conditions of this area. It's a
big accomplishment.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I think it's been an outstanding
accomplishment. As Commissioner Mac'Kie has said so well, it was
through our efforts. We were relentless at that critical decision-
making point on the part of the board at that time. That's why we
pushed for the three-year study. We said, "We don't have enough
information here. We don't have the right information." There was
some thinking and philosophy at that time of, "Well, let's hurry up
and do it and get it done." Thankfully we prevailed, and today we've
got the results.
Commissioner Fiala, you had a comment or question?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Huh-uh. No.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No. I've been following this for
some time. No questions.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you.
MR. DURHAM: Thank you.
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, I think we are on to No. 7 on your
agenda which would be the report from the committee with Ron
Hamel and Ann Olesky.
MR. HAMEL: Again, Commissioners, for the record, my name
is Ron Hamel. I'm chair of this oversight committee. After seeing
the video and looking at the presentation on agricultural and natural
resources, it's pretty apparent that our committee has a real challenge
and opportunity to do something very positive for this county. And
because of the uniqueness and importance of the work of the
committee, what we'd like to do is give you a little background on
this group and tell you what we've been doing for the past two years.
The oversight committee, again, is a group of volunteer citizens
appointed by you, the Collier County Commission, to collect and
review data, to gather public input, and to recommend amendments to
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September 26, 2001
the comprehensive growth management plan. The committee was
established, again, in October of'99 and held its first meeting in
November of '99, and that's been about two years ago.
The committee has been tasked with addressing the major issues
identified by the final order within the 195,000-acre Immokalee study
area. And those were the protection of viable agriculture, protection
of natural resources, and the economic prosperity and diversification
of the rural community. In this effort the committee is also
considering impacts to adjacent public lands, private-property rights,
and economic impacts. It is currently working to identify techniques
which will provide for the appropriate conversion of ag lands to other
land uses for the future.
As mentioned in the video, to assist in this effort, the board
appointed a committee of 15 members, and I would like to take a few
minutes at this time to introduce them, the ones that are here to you.
In addition to myself, we have Floyd Crews of Southwest Florida
Service & Supply Company who's the owner of that company.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Wave or stand or something.
MR. HAMEL: If anybody's here would you please stand.
Rodney Harvey is a realtor with Naples Realty. He's representing the
Naples Area Board of Realtors. We have Dawn Jantsch of the
Naples Area Chamber of Commerce. He's the president and CEO.
Andrew Mackie's representing the Corkscrew Sanctuary, National
Audubon Society. He's the assistant manager and president of the
Collier chapter of the Audubon Society.
There's Ann Olesky, a business owner, Lake Trafford Marina &
Airboat Rides. You know Ann. You're going to hear a little bit from
Ann in a minute. David Santee, Farm Bureau Insurance. He's the
agency manager. Dr. Neno Spagna, planning consultant. We have
Fred Thomas, executive director of the Collier County Housing
Authority. I know Fred is here or he was here. Sonya Tuten,
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September 26, 2001
business owner, Ag-Tronix Irrigation, computer technician. James
Howard, First Union National Bank, project manager. Grady Miars
with the Bonita Bay Group, project manager. Kathy Prosser with
The Conservancy of Southwest Florida; she's the President and CEO.
Joseph Boggs, professional surveyor and mapper. And Mr. James
Homer, who is our recent addition to the committee.
I would publicly like to thank and commend these individuals
who have literally invested hundreds of hours of meetings beginning
since November of 1999. Since the Board of County Commissioners
established the committee in '99, we have met 19 times with each
meeting being fully publicized and open to the public. Our meetings
have typically been held at about 5:30 on Monday evenings and last
for about two hours. The location has been rotated around the
county, but predominantly lately we've been meeting at the
Corkscrew Middle School.
During those 19 meetings, our committee has undertaken the
following: We've reviewed and recommended approval of the study
scope. We've recommended improvements to solicit input in the
process. We've monitored and approved results of Stage 1 data
collection. We've approved the methodology for the Stage 2 scenario
evaluation. We've monitored paralleling efforts of the fringe
committee, community character plan, the rural land stewardship
legislation, and results of the growth management study commission
which recently had been meeting throughout the State of Florida.
We participated in a visioning workshop conducted by
Dr. Showenfeld (phonetic) with Florida Gulf Coast University to
identify some of the potential tools and options for achieving some of
the goals that have been put to the committee, and we made
preliminary recommendations on scenario criteria at our August 20th
and September 17th meetings.
In addition, the committee has collected input from several
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September 26, 2001
experts and, again, you've heard from Dr. Spreen here this morning,
and he presented before our committee. In addition, we had Dr. Fritz
Roka who chairs our agricultural economics program here at the
Southwest Florida Research Center in Immokalee.
In addition, we had a very informative presentation -- I would
say progressive presentation by Craig Evans. Craig couldn't be here
today, but we wanted to just kind of go through a few of the
highlights of this regarding agriculture in Collier County.
Craig's presentation was entitled "Ensuring a Viable Future for
Florida's Rural Lands." His presentation had a lot of interesting
insights to the subjects that we're trying to address here as part of this
assessment, if you could present a few of those. A few key points --
and I think Dr. Spreen brought this out too -- without profit there will
be no agriculture and no forestry. Land use tends to follow
economics. Changes in land use result primarily from economic
decisions.
Some attributes of agriculture include economics. Agriculture is
Florida's second most important industry producing over 18 billion in
economic value each year. It's the foundation of a lot of other
segments in the Florida economy and, again, also in the Collier
County economy for that matter. It also accounts for more than
500,000 jobs and generates a payroll of more than $10 billion per
year to the state's economy.
In addition, when carried out in environmental compatibility,
agriculture also provides and protects preservation of wetlands,
storage, groundwater recharge, water filtration, flood control,
purification of air, carbon sequestering, generation of oxygen, forests
and woodlands, ambient healthful living conditions.
For example, there is a great irony in the way we view our land
for its different uses. If you have a wetland on your property, you
might be lucky if you get an appraised $250 an acre. So, you know,
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September 26, 2001
the whole issue of how these lands and the values of these lands are
not only for their agricultural productivity but for environmental
benefits. I think that's certainly one of the things that we're grappling
with in this exercise is trying to find the balance there.
Other points that Craig brought out when he addressed the group
is land is valued on the basis of how many housing units or condos it
will accommodate or how effectively it will grow our food, but how
important is it for aquifer recharge or its wildlife habitat? These are a
lot of the questions that your committee is working to discuss and to
bring to the public to discuss.
Obviously, the economic value really determines how much a
land owner is willing to do and to protect as far as their land is
concerned. So it is a very complicated and overriding issue for this
county. Here again, Craig brought out that too often the first response
by concerned property makers, planners, and environmentalists is to
continue to lower densities and devalue the land. Essentially what
you're doing is you're expediting the conversion of agriculture if you
do those kinds of things.
We have prepared for you and we'll leave behind further
information here that has been presented this morning by the
agricultural folks as well as Craig Evans. You know, we do have a
separate handout that explains a little further in detail what we've
done in each of our meetings and kind of lays out chronologically
some of the activities that have gone through the committee.
At this time, I would like to ask Ann Olesky to make a few
remarks from her perspective as a member of the committee. As
many of you know, Ann has been personally very actively involved
in trying to restore and make improvements out there at Lake
Trafford, and we felt coming from the committee as a participant that
it would be very important to hear from Ann as part of our
presentation. So, Ann, if you could make a few remarks.
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September 26, 2001
MS. OLESKY: Good morning. For the record, it's Ann Olesky.
What it is is he just wanted somebody with a big mouth who puts her
foot in it every time she opens it, and that's me.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's usually me, Ann, but
we're glad to have company.
MS. OLESKY: That's good. Yeah. We do a good job of that.
When I was asked to speak out, I thought, "What am I going to do?"
So I started reading through everything that I had already been
reading through for the past two years, and I said, "Huh-uh, that's not
it."
What it is is, it's been a wonderful experience. When I started
out, I thought, "Uh-huh. They hired this guy A1 Reynolds and this
group to bulldoze us." And the county said, "Well, we don't want him
to do that because we've already been slapped on the hands by the
Governor, so let's stick a few county members in."
A guy by the name of Russell Priddy said, "Hey, Annie, you're
on this committee." I said, "Oh, I don't think so." He said, "Just go
and listen," so I did, and what an education. I thought that it would
be rough, hard. It is. We're trying to balance everything out. A1 and
his group have put together some wonderful information. Bob
Mulhere comes along and throws in more. But then a neat thing
happened. Out of the audience a lady by the name of Nancy Payton
jumped on board, and most of you know her as an extreme
environmentalist, and I use that word "extreme" as a compliment
because she makes us all stop and balance it out.
So we all go into this room, some of us elected to be on here
through your graciousness, and some of us were sitting in the
audience. Well, we've all put our hats together. We started a fact-
finding mission. A lot of the information you've been given has been
updated. A lot of it has been in the books for years. It's just that
sometimes when we look at the equipment we had to work with years
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September 26, 2001
ago, it was kind of rough. You know, you did what you could. Now,
today we have technology and wonderful things to improvise and
make it look better. We also have feet that do walking through these
areas. So I said, "Well, that's great."
We have taken this fact-finding mission and put everything
together in a pot to make a bowl of soup, but we needed some meat in
it. Now we started working on the meat. That's where we were
doing scenarios. The information that we got through the workshops,
through listening to the people, and our own evaluations with such a
mixed group on this committee. Now we're starting to put it all
together, the fact-finding missions, and putting them into scenarios
on what would be the best place and the best way to save Collier
County.
I think that we have a unique opportunity. Collier County
doesn't want to be like the east coast. We're our own entity, and I
think we have a chance to shine in the Governor's eyes and also the
United States by being the best we can be and putting all of these in.
The farmers want to be good stewards, but they also want to be
paid for the value of taking care of that land as good stewards. The
guy that wants to keep it as environmentally sensitive land, he needs
to be rewarded for being a good steward, not being penalized by
saying, "Gee, you've got a tree on there you can't kill. We're going to
devalue your land."
We're coming up with innovative ideas on how to do that. So
I'm very pleased to be a part of it. I have no script, because I don't
know how to work from a script, but I think that you're going to be
pleased with the results you get from this committee. And I think
that we're going to be put up there as No. 1. I have some notes that I
want to share with you all. Any questions real quick before I wind up
and get out of here?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Mac'Kie.
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September 26, 2001
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just wanted to ask Ann -- you
said you started out thinking, "Okay. This is going to be -- the
County's going to sort of railroad through, and they've hired this big
company, and they're going to run the show, and they're putting some
token Immokaleans on there." MS. OLESKY: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Did it turn out that way?
MS. OLESKY: No. That's why I'm still on the committee. It
didn't turn out that way. What it turned out to be was a fact-finding
group, and it's been -- if you want to say -- overseen by or watched
over by environmental groups, farmers, landowners both large and
small, so it's not just the committee. I mean, I really believe it's a mix
of the community, and I think we're working in the right direction.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's just the best possible
news, because the Governor says the hallmark of this process shall be
public participation. Boy, I'm glad that was the answer.
MS. OLESKY: Well, let me tell you what: I think he's also got
some other things in mind for us that we're not aware of or maybe we
are aware of and are afraid to own up to. I think we have a chance to
either shine like a new badge or get put in the mud like Lake
Trafford. So we're all on our toes, and I think we're working in the
right direction.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Ann, your synopsis or your
understanding on the progress of the committee as moving forward,
that's what I've seen when I've come out there. MS. OLESKY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You're setting the groundwork
for Collier County to be much different than the east coast.
MS. OLESKY: I think we will be. We have such strong -- not
only environmentists -- but strong people who want to see growth,
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September 26, 2001
and I think those few words I really love, "smart growth."
I had the opportunity to go to Apex, North Carolina; tobacco,
rolling hills, old homes. A gracious lady took me through the woods
up to where they had taken and put houses right in the middle of
these tobacco fields, and you never saw them. The land around it
was preserved and kept, and I figure if they can do it up there in the
hills, we can do it down here in the swamp. It was really a great
experience. It renewed my faith in what we're doing.
I applaud you for having enough foresight to pick us to do this
job. Sometimes I like to bust your chops but, truthfully, I think we've
been doing the right thing.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I just want to thank you and the
members of the committee for taking time out of your job, your
family, and your hobbies to make this happen for the residents of
Collier County.
MS. OLESKY: Well, I would love to see more of the public
show up at these. Again, like I said, there are many that show up, the
same ones all the time but, wow, it's great because they might see
something that we didn't see. The information that we've been given
-- it's a lot of reading,
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Annie, on Channel 54 they're
watching it now, and they're going to watch the replay. If I'm not
missing the mark here, we're going to be replaying this over and over
again. And I kind of hope, Tom, that when we get Channel 54 in
Immokalee, which will just be in the next couple of days --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE:
(Mr. Olliff shook his head.)
COMMISSIONER COLETTA:
Yeah.
Couple of weeks? Very soon?
MS. OLESKY: Put him to the fire, honey. Put him to the fire.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I shouldn't pin the man down.
In any case, I hope this is one of the first things that we bring forward
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September 26, 2001
and we show, and I hope when we get to show it it's not going to be
too dated.
MS. OLESKY: I do too. I understand what you're saying. If
we can get public input -- you know, it's the same people you see day
after day, but it's so important because Collier County belongs to all
of us.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's correct.
MS. OLESKY: It's a four-legged stool, you might say. We've
got the agriculture, which would be with the citrus and with the
vegetables; then you've got your tourism; you've got the heritage; and
the environment. There's so much that we have to offer, and don't
forget tourism.
We have a lot to offer the world, and with the way the world is
changing and some of the bad things that are happening, I think that
we're going to be one of the strong entities that come out of this.
Can I also put in a plug about my lake?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Sure. I was just going to do it
for you, Annie, but go ahead.
MS. OLESKY: Thank you. As you know, all of us pulled
together with your guidance. Lake Trafford is now a reality. It's
called the beginning, the new beginnings of Lake Trafford. It's going
to be on November 16th. You all will be getting an announcement.
The Army Corps. Of Engineers has given us a task to feed over 300
people. Being Collier County and Immokaleans, we can do it, and
we're going to do it.
I think that the lake is going to be a step towards helping the
greater Everglades, Okeechobee. I think that we're going to be a pilot
project as we are now with the land issues that are coming before us.
So, again, I applaud you for your taking the leadership in this.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If I may add, Annie, if people
want to enjoy really getting one with nature, go out to Lake Trafford
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Marina. It's the best bass fishing in Southwest Florida. You'll find it
in the Yellow Pages. The most polite people in this world will direct
you to a 9-, 10-, 12-pound bass every time.
MS. OLESKY: Boy, that's a polite way of-- boy, is he putting
me to the fire. It's a polite way of saying, "Come out to the marina,
and we'll show you the swamp." It is beautiful. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Ann, what I appreciated most from
you this morning is you spoke to us from your heart. I love it when
people come up and do that because it tells me more than anything
else. And I really thank you for what you said and how you
communicated to everyone here, to this commission and to all of our
listening audience. This is what makes up a community. These are
the people you listen to because they are the real people, and thank
you and God bless you for what you're doing for us.
MS. OLESKY: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MR. HAMEL: Thanks, Ann. Again, I'd like to thank you on
behalf of the committee for telling it like you see it.
As you can see, in the first year of the process -- the first year of
the process has been devoted to the organization, the data collection,
and research so we would have a solid foundation to get to the heart
of our task, and that is to evaluate the scenarios and make
recommendations on goals, objectives, and policies.
Our next speaker, A1 Reynolds, will provide some of the
additional background and results of Stages 1 and 2 studies and also
outline directions the committee is taking on the first scenario.
Following Al, then Bob Mulhere will speak to you about where the
committee is going from here and our schedule to get to the goal and
complete the task.
I would like to kind ofjump away from the script for a minute
myself and from the personal perspective and kind of talk from the
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heart as well. You know, Collier County has a unique opportunity
here to do some magnificent things, not just for this county, but for
the State of Florida.
Commissioner Mac'Kie well knows a few years ago there was a
group put together called the Governor's Commission for Sustainable
South Florida. That group brought together diverse interests from
agriculture, from urban cities, from the environmental communities,
from all of the various agencies responsible in all of South Florida to
talk about how they could put together a program to restore the
Everglades.
Initially when Governor Chiles put that group together and they
first started meeting, there was a little undercurrent with that group
feeling that they could never achieve a unified goal to build
consensus to get all these divergent interests around the table and
make major agreements to move forward with a world-class
restoration project. Through, what, five years of meeting-- I think
we only have three with our process but --
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So far.
MR. HAMEL: In five years of meetings, this group learned that
the only way to make a program work and to make it successful
would be to speak with one voice in a unified way and everybody
working as a team and building a strong coalition. I would just like
to parallel this scenario here for Collier County because I feel --
obviously we're not all of South Florida, but we are part of the same
type of process that's put together bringing citizens and stakeholders
together to try to grapple with these issues and to move forward.
So I would like to echo Ann's comments. From the committee
we stand to do the job that we were asked to do and to work with
members of this commission and the public to reach success here.
This is precedent setting. I think the committee knows that as well as
you do, and we want to be successful in planning and being a
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September 26, 2001
participant in setting the curve in Florida of how we can have a
sustainable profitable agriculture, prosperity in our rural areas, plus
protect our natural resources.
So that pretty much concludes my part in this other than any
questions that you would like to ask me as part of the committee.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Ron, thank you again for an
outstanding effort. You said it so well. It's bringing citizens and
stakeholders together for a common purpose to find solutions to
complex problems and to be one of those points of light that's so
often referred to. You certainly have done it for this community, and
we applaud you on the Board of County Commissioners for doing
what you're doing. Thank you so much.
MR. HAMEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Reynolds.
MR. REYNOLDS: Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Chairman
and members of the Commission. I would like to thank Stan
Litsinger for putting me after Ann Olesky.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah.
MR. REYNOLDS: We probably could have stopped there
because I think Ann probably summarized this better than any of us
could have. And I don't have to be asked twice to take my jacket off.
My challenge is that I've got to take in 15 minutes and compress
2 year's worth of good work by this committee, and I will promise
you that I will keep it quick, and I will hit the high points. I know
that a lot of this information you have seen in the form of reports.
Obviously some of this has been covered, so I'm going to go pretty
quickly, but feel free if you need to stop me at any point and want to
talk about anything in more detail.
I'll tell you one thing from the heart, and that is I've been a
practicing planner for 22 years in Collier County. This represents
probably the greatest professional challenge and professionally the
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September 26, 2001
most rewarding planning experience that I've been involved in, and
that's because of what Ann said. When you start a process like this,
you may think that you know what it's going to lead to. You may
have a scope of work. You have a committee. But, really, it's the
interaction of the people at the end of the day that makes it happen.
That's what we're having with this process. We are all learning as we
go in this. I know a lot more about agriculture than I ever thought I
would know. So this has been a learning experience for all of us and,
frankly, that's -- I think at the end of the day it was pointed out that
maybe the best thing that comes out of this is a higher degree of
understanding about a very, very important part of our county.
You have heard already what we're focused on. You know that
that focus is being driven both by the desire to have a strategic plan
for the area and also by a requirement to respond to the Governor's
final order. And we keep coming back to the three key points
because as these things do get complicated, we have to keep coming
back to the focus of what we're all about.
This, I think, is interesting because, again, it puts in perspective
the Immokalee study area in its context of Collier County. You will
see that next to the approximate 66 percent of Collier County that is
in conservation, the Immokalee study area is the next largest
identifiable piece at 195,000 acres or 14 percent of the county. You
can compare that to all of the land that's within urban areas in Collier
County. That's 8 percent. The rural fringe study area is just under 7
percent and then Golden Gate Estates. So, again, sometimes we do
lose perspective of the size of the area that we're studying here, but
suffice it to say, it's enormous.
When we appeared before the county commission, I think,
almost two and a half years ago now and first proposed a study like
this, we knew the basic structure would be in four steps. The first
step or Stage 1 is the data collection analysis. The second is the land-
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September 26, 2001
use scenarios and research. The third is looking at the impacts,
relative impacts, of choices. And, finally, the fourth step which is the
comprehensive plan amendment.
The data collection analysis, it's already been pointed out, the
need for that was because we just did not have good, reliable,
sufficient information to work from to do this study. One of the
things we didn't have was any kind of a GIS mapping of Collier
County. We now have that as a result of Stage 1.
The actual work in this study, which we said would take three
years, got a seven-month late start because we spent the first seven
months not only setting up the committee but bringing the scope of
work to the public and getting input. So until January of 2000, which
is when the board finally endorsed the scope of work, that's when the
real study began.
We went through and created all the mapping. We did field
verification. It was identified that we have got through a lot of peer
review and technical analysis to make sure that we had good
information. And at this point we have produced a report. You've
seen the bound book. We have a CD that we produced. The CD is on
your website. So there's a good distribution of this information. I
think it's been commonly acknowledged by everybody that it is the
best and most reliable information we have ever had for the study
area.
Tim had talked about land cover. I'm just going to show you,
again, the composite of the land-cover data that shows that, again,
agriculture is the dominant use. We do have significant areas of
wetlands and uplands. We do have areas of native vegetation that
serve agricultural purposes.
Let's go to the next slide. We have also taken and looked at fine
details on each of these types of uses. For example, in agriculture we
now have mapped all of the areas that are in row crops. That's the
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September 26, 2001
area that's in citrus production. If you add the specialty farms, the
pasture areas, and the grazing leases, you can see that virtually all of
the private land in the study area has an identified agricultural use.
Some of those are very passive, like cattle grazing, and some are very
active, like row crops. But they all have identified uses for agriculture
even though the cover may, in fact, be natural vegetation.
What you can see, then, in summary is what we call the active
agriculture plus the area that's in grazing leases. Essentially 91
percent of the study area has an identified agricultural purpose as we
sit here today.
You saw this exhibit before. It shows the natural water flows.
A little bit later I'm going to show you what happens when you
superimpose all of the agricultural stormwater management systems
into it. But we have done extensive mapping of both natural and
manmade features, and we have done inventories of all the permitted
Water Management District improvements that have occurred in the
area.
So the summary of Stage 1 is -- if you want to just make a few
points first -- agriculture is the dominant use, that naturally vegetated
areas are slightly less than half of the study area, that we do have six
federally listed and ten state listed species that we have to deal with
and accommodate in the planning for the area.
The point was made before that there were some things that we
discovered as he went through this process. One, there were some
fairly significant errors made in mapping of prior studies. One of
those had to do with the discussion about the conversion of land from
one agricultural type of use to another.
In prior studies there had been an assumption that some of that
significant conversion was from natural vegetated lands when, in
fact, it was going from one agricultural type to another. That had
been pointed to as an example of the need for immediate action that
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September 26, 2001
we were losing vast acres of natural vegetation when, in fact, in 15
years we've had less than 3 percent of the study area converted from
natural vegetation.
Let's talk just a minute about the Big Cypress area of critical
state concern because it overlays one-third of the study area. As I
think you know, the area of critical state concern is created by Florida
law. It's been in place for approximately 25 years. It is considered to
be the most restrictive designation that the state puts on any land, and
we're talking about, like I said, in excess of 60,000 acres in that
designation.
One of the things we're looking at now in the Stage 2 analysis is
how those regulations and uses will interact with the other policies
that we're putting together. As is the case with all parts of the study,
it's important that when we get this information we distribute it so
that the public not only has inputs into creating it and looking at it,
but they have an opportunity to view it. I mentioned the CD-ROM
that is on your website. The county has got a great website that
they're keeping up to date for both the fringe study and the eastern
land study.
Let's go to Stage 2. Stage 2, I think, was referred to as -- we're
getting into sort of the meat, if you will, of the policy. The purpose,
really, is to do a couple of things. First, it's to kind of do the same
research and documentation of the human use, if you will, of the land
as opposed to the natural resources and to look out over a long
period. We're talking a 25-year horizon that we're looking at.
Scenarios have been discussed. What are they? It's an
application of a collection of tools and techniques that we think will
help us achieve the goal of the study. Continuing to receive broad
public input is essential throughout this process. I think this has been
covered adequately by prior speakers.
Understand, too, that agricultural land as Collier County
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identifies it is more than just agricultural use. Your Comprehensive
Plan and your Land Development Code has a whole series of uses
that are considered to be rural uses that fall into the agricultural
designation. This is just a partial listing, actually, from your Land
Development Code of some of those uses.
Again, we have detailed information on all the subcategories of
agricultural activity. Here you can see how we have overlaid the
major agricultural irrigation and water management systems on top of
the natural flow-ways. You can see that, once again, the natural
features of the study area pop out. Camp Keais on the left and then
Calloway on the right.
I think this has been covered already in some depth. Again,
there has been a substantial conversion from predominantly cattle to
citrus over the last 15 years, but a relatively small conversion of
natural lands to agricultural uses. Contrary to, I think, some popular
belief that there were subdivisions and growth occurring in the study
area, in the eastern lands that has not occurred. There have been no
subdivisions. There have been no significant rezones in the past
recent history. It's a very stable area.
There's a number of economic influences that we're going to
have to accommodate that already exist in the study area-- most of
them within the Immokalee urban area but certainly affect the study
area. We've got a partial listing of some of those. I think it's
important. Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary, we're going to be looking
at eco-tourism. Lake Trafford, obviously, is a key economic driver
for the study area and the airport.
We did a little comparison, and we took the urban area of
Immokalee to look at growth. You'll see over the past decade that
Immokalee has had a reasonable amount of growth in the last decade,
about 30 percent, which kind of mirrors most moderately to high-
growth areas of the state. Now, if you look at the other area that's
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adjoining us, which is the Orangetree/Golden Gate Estates, you're
going to see there's been a fourfold increase in population in the last
decade. It's tremendous growth, the fastest growing part of Collier
County on a percentage basis. They've added 4,000 people in the last
decade in just that portion of the estates and Orangetree.
Now let's look at the study area. In ten years 38 homes and 106
people have been added to the 195,000 acres. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Wow.
MR. REYNOLDS: So you can see certainly there are growth
drivers in the estates, the platted subdivisions and the entitled lands,
but agriculture has remained the use of the study area.
Collier County has done long-range planning for some time and
transportation planning. They have a 2025 plan, as you know, that
looks at needs. They have done a lot of projections as to an
anticipated population that could be accommodated in 25 years.
Go to the next slide. They've also created on that basis a 2025
transportation plan. The only significant difference between today's
road network and the 2025 network in the study area is the
four-laning of Immokalee Road, the improvement of State Road 82,
and a loop road proposed around Immokalee. So no new road
corridors other than the loop around the urban area.
So the summary as far as growth for Immokalee is it's
experienced very, you know, diminimus change over the past 15
years. We are having rapid growth in the Golden Gate Estates and
Orangetree area. There are very few parcels of land that are smaller
than 40 acres, and we use that as a benchmark to determine the
potential for uncontrolled growth.
The same analysis was done in your fringe, and there are
literally thousands of parcels that could be developed, if you will,
without going through some kind of rigorous review process.
Contrarily, in this area because it's owned primarily by a small group
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of large landowners, there are very few parcels that are able to be
subdivided and developed without going back through a planning and
zoning process.
I want to talk a little bit about scenario creation and how we're
going to approach this process. It was important for us to work with
the committee to develop some definitions, some terms of art that
we're going to use in this process, because one of the questions that
always gets asked is, "Well, what is the scenario?" There's been a lot
of questions and presumptions about what it may or may not be. But
it's quite simple, I think, in the way we are defining it.
It's a demonstration of the potential application of innovative
tools, techniques, and strategies. That's a scenario. Why do we do
scenarios? We use it to evaluate which of the tools are going to work
for us, what's going to get us to our final objective. There are a
number of tools -- if you'll go to the next one -- that we have
available to us, and the list is growing.
Just out of the committee's visioning process, there's a list of
probably 70 or 80 different kinds of tools and techniques we can use.
We call that the toolbox. You don't necessarily use every tool in all
applications. What you want to have is a full range of things that you
can use depending on the need and the situation. So that's how we're
going to approach this. We're going to create this toolbox, we're
going to test the tool, and then we're going to select the ones that we
think work the best, and use those as the basis for your
Comprehensive Plan amendments.
The horizon framework, I use -- I think an analogy is called for
in what the horizon framework is. You can read the definition: It's a
set of parameters within which the scenarios are evaluated. If you
want to use an analogy to a car, the horizon framework is the chassis.
So as we go through these definitions, think about the chassis of the
vehicle which may not change dramatically. It's the givens that we're
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going to use consistently so that we can benchmark different types of
tools and techniques.
It's based on a number of things. For example, the area of
critical state concern is a known regulatory device that exists. That's
part of your horizon framework. The time frame, 25 years, that's a
known part. That's part of your horizon framework.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I ask you a question, Al? Is
it -- are you talking about -- it gets the control in scientific
experiment? It's the control feature?
MR. REYNOLDS: It's the skeleton. It's the -- there's two
pieces of it, and I'll explain the other piece of it in a minute. But the
horizon framework, if you think of it-- here's the elements of it:
For example, the time frame, the projected road network and
population, the interim NRPA boundaries that have already been
established, the boundaries of the Immokalee urban area. These are
things that are definable as they sit today. It doesn't mean that they
may not change as a result of the study, but it means that those are
known quantities that we're dealing with.
Let's go to the next one, because I think the other part of the
control is what we call the baseline reference scenario. Okay. What
that is is if you took all of your adopted plan policies and zoning
regulations that existed before we started the study and if you
projected them forward for 25 years, with that horizon framework
you would have a result. Okay. That's the baseline reference. That's
the do-nothing plan. That's if we just let things occur by their own
course and we don't make any changes. You have a result.
So if the horizon framework is the chassis, this is last year's
model. The scenario is next year's prototype. So we're always
having something that we can compare. The toolbox are the
components that we're going to use to build the new prototype from
last year's model.
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We've actually just at the last meeting had the opportunity to run
through an outline of what should be tested in the first scenario, and
the committee is still reviewing this, but we'll just walk through some
of the key parts of that. First of all, over the summer there were some
visioning workshops that were facilitated by a Florida Gulf Coast
University professor, and the intent of that was to draw out of the
committee and the public their ideas of the tools. We had 16
different questions that came right out of your final order. Basically,
it was an open-ended process that they came up with lists, and then
they prioritized those lists.
What we did, then, is we took the highest-priority items with
each question, and we collected them together and created an outline
of a scenario from those preferred tools. Then we designed some
strategies around it. The basic strategy for Scenario 1 that we're
going to test is to use an overlay concept that's going to be called
tentatively the Immokalee Area Rural Stewardship Overlay. What
that overlay will do is test some of these tools and techniques so that
we can see if they accomplish the resource protection needs and
accomplish the transfer of rights from areas that should receive
protection to areas that may be suitable for conversion of use.
Not only was the work of the facilitated workshop an inspiration
for this, but I think by now you are familiar with the fact that the state
adopted some legislation this past year, the rural stewardship
legislation. Well, it just so happened that a lot of what was seen by
the committee and the public to be likely solutions for us fits very
nicely with the concept under the stewardship legislation. So
Scenario 1 really is consistent in concept with the approach that was
reflected in the state legislation.
Although there are many assumptions that have to go into a
scenario, here's three that I think will define this first one. The first is
that there's going to be a dynamic balance of uses. What we're saying
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is that in 25 years it's not going to be all ag, it's not going to be all
conservation, it's not going to be all economic diversification and
alternative uses. There's going to be a balance there. Striking the
balance, obviously, is the challenge that we have to meet.
The second assumption for the first scenario is that we're going
to get to where we need to be not through a regulatory program, but
through an incentive-based program. Again, you can design a
scenario that says we're going to try to get where we need to by
regulation. That's how we're going to look at it on the first scenario.
Then the third assumption we're making is that there are not
going to be sufficient new sources of public revenues to make it all
work. We're taking the position that if this is going to work, it's
going to have to be done on an incentive basis predominantly through
the private sector. It's not to say that there will be none, but what
we're saying here is we can't rely upon public funds to get us where
we need to be with natural resources protection and agricultural
viability. It will be a contributing factor.
We talked about the toolbox. Here is the list of what are
considered to be the most likely tools to work, and so these are the
ones that are tested under that scenario. You can see a lot of them are
concepts that have already been examined to some degree in your
fringe study. Some of them come out of the legislation. But all of
them came out of that facilitated workshop or workshops that we held
over the summer. Things like sending and receiving areas, natural
resource protection guidelines, clustering, open-space requirements,
these are the tools that we're going to be looking at.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And a lot of that is right out of
the stewardship legislation on the state level, I would think.
MR. REYNOLDS: Very much so, yes.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
MR. REYNOLDS: And some of these come right out of the
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final order. The final order did give some guidance.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Absolutely.
MR. REYNOLDS: For example, rural villages, satellite
communities was one of the tools that they said have to be looked at.
Next, please. I don't really have time to get into the details of it,
and it's probably just to give you a taste of it because the committee
is still working with this, but the concept of sending and receiving, I
thought, would bear a little bit of explanation because there are some
assumptions for this first scenario.
The first is that when we have sending areas, which are places
where we're going to take rights and move them out, if you will, to
protect land, those will be designated based on the characteristics of
the land underneath. It seems logical, but that needs to be stated
because what that means is that you may have different kinds of
sending areas. It may not be a one-size-fits-all kind of approach.
The area of critical state concern will be a sending area, at least
for this first scenario as a test. The NRPAs will be sending areas.
And because we're saying that we can't rely on public funding, we're
saying that those lands are likely to remain in private ownership
through the life of the study for the first scenario.
On the other side, anyplace that is designated as a receiving area
has certain requirements that it has to meet. First is -- as Tim talked
about and others, compatibility of uses needs to be addressed so that
you do not have incompatible uses impacting, for example, natural
resource protection areas.
Receiving areas also have to be designed so that it does not
encourage urban sprawl. There's a very detailed definition in state
law as to what that means and how it applies. As far as natural
resource protection under the first scenario, the techniques that will
work the best and need to be looked at are techniques that don't
require a fee-simple acquisition of land.
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If you make the assumption that there's not enough money to
buy the land, you have to come up with a different approach. Well,
the approaches that work are things like conservation easements,
stewardship agreements, credit systems, things that will work with
private property owners to make sure that the goals are achieved and
at the same time that property owners are getting some value, if you
will, for the protection or elimination of rights that they may have.
If you have a balanced approach to do these things, it seems,
again, by logic that you get to a result which is that you do have a
sustainable program for environmental protection. You will -- to the
extent that we can insure agricultural viability, first, it's do no harm
and, second, it's do things that may help support agriculture. So if
you're getting value as a farmer for doing a good stewardship of your
land, maybe that helps you to stay in business as a farmer. Enabling
economic diversification, again, is a recurring theme throughout the
study. Again, always look at cost-efficient techniques.
That's two years in, I think, about 15 minutes, maybe 20
minutes, but I'd be happy to answer any questions.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, A1 Reynolds.
That's an enormous amount of information. It's been well presented
and concisely given. Of course, I know we're getting copies of that to
study, but it sure says to me we have a lot of great opportunities, a lot
of dynamics in the process. I compliment you as a part of what
you're doing to bring some sense to where everything is so that we
can quickly knock down the assumptions that have prevailed in the
past and get down to the GIS mapping which really gives us a much
better foundation for decision making in the future. Questions by the board.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A million of them, but they'll be
coming, you know.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
They'll be coming. Right. Okay.
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Thank you very much, Al. Mr. Mulhere.
MR. MULHERE: Let's see. It's still morning. Good morning.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes, sir.
MR. MULHERE: For the record, Bob Mulhere with RWA, Inc.
I also want to reiterate some of the comments that were expressed
earlier by a number of individuals in expressing my gratitude for
being involved in this process both personally and professionally,
personally as a citizen and professionally as a planner. The process
has been extremely rewarding thus far, and I am fully confident that
we can and will complete the process addressing all of the
requirements of the final order and achieving the kind of balance that
Allen just referred to.
One of the things we have been doing on behalf of the county is
meeting with the county staff and with WilsonMiller on a regular
basis to coordinate this process from this point out and certainly
before this point in time. We began to develop an analysis of the
tasks that lay before us, and as we did that, as I'm sure it's no surprise
to you at this point in time, we began to realize that in order to adopt
Comprehensive Plan amendments prior to the June 22nd date, we
would have to really expedite this process considerably.
Collectively, none of us felt that that was the best methodology
to achieve the results in the long run. If it took a little bit longer or
beyond that date in time but the process was better and the end
product was better, that would be more desirable. And I think really
everyone in the process agrees with that concept.
You have on the screen before you a schedule that will bring us
to adoption, and it's pretty aggressive as it stands right now. For
example -- and we're starting at this point in time with the workshop
at the top -- establishing a scenario is estimated to take about 75 days.
There will be a minimum of three; however, there could be more.
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This will require significant involvement of the staff, myself,
WilsonMiller, but also a significant involvement of the committee,
and it's a time when we really want to have significant public input as
well.
So while you see, I think, five meetings scheduled up there
between October and December or through December 17th, it's very
likely that there will need to be additional meetings built into that
time. We don't intend to extend that time frame, but we may need to
have some additional meetings, and the committee is aware of this
and certainly has agreed to do whatever it takes to get through that
process.
As we complete Stage 2 and move on to Stage 3, we'll begin to
develop a preferred scenario. Allen explain to you what the scenario
is, and I would just like to add to that that really this is a process that
is able to provide more of a visual understanding of what the result
will be if you apply this scenario. I guess what I mean to say by that
is that sometimes when you simply read comprehensive plans
language, you really don't get an understanding of what the end
results are intended to be. Through this process you should have a
much better vision of what the intended results will be from one
scenario or another.
I can cut it fairly short here. The bottom line is that if you get
down to the transmittal hearing, that's scheduled for June 1 lth, and
the adoption hearing is scheduled for October 30th. So we really will
be looking for an extension to -- for argument sake let's just say
November 1st to complete this process.
I'd be happy to answer any questions you have. You have that
information before you, and I don't see any reason to elaborate on
that at this point in time.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Questions by the board?
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just some that I've already
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September 26, 2001
expressed in my meeting with Stan -- and I think you were there and
Nancy Lananne -- about being sure that in this public forum-- you
know, I see -- besides the official adoption hearings and transmittal
hearings, because by then we're down to fine tuning. There's a public
forum there it looks like in April, and then the transmittal hearing in
May. Prior to that can you show me on here where there are
additional opportunities for public participation?
MR. MULHERE: Obviously, at any one of the committee
meetings there's an opportunity for public participation.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And there's eight more of those?
Is that what I see there?
MR. MULHERE: Correct, but that -- I feel strongly that that
will be a minimum. There likely will be significantly more than that.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay.
MR. MULHERE: But what I did want to share with you is the
difficulty is -- I mean, obviously we want the public participation, but
at the point when we can really provide what the preferred scenario
is, that's probably the most critical point for getting full public
involvement in that process, because we're certainly going to want to
demonstrate to the public that's involved that this is the preferred
scenario, these are the results, and provide some public input from it.
That's why we scheduled that sort of official or very formal
public forum process, and I don't mean "formal" in the way that it
may unfold, but listed on the schedule. That's why we put that in
April so that we would have all of the information that we had
garnered and collected through the scenario development and the
development of the preferred scenario process, because we certainly
don't want to engage the public to that degree intermittently and then
have them feel that they really don't know what the final
recommendation is going to be.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think, Bob, as you go along in that,
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September 26, 2001
you can get those back to the board through Tom Olliff. That helps
us as an update at our meetings. Also, we can use 54 and all the other
media news outlets to let them know. Now it's getting down to where
you're really ready --
MR. MULHERE: Correct.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- to do this, and when you do those
add-ons, we'll do everything we can to get them communicated to the
public and, hopefully, they will participate and share with us. MR. MULHERE: Excellent.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The other thing is -- and I just
say this publicly because it sometimes helps get things done, but I
really suggest that we engage maybe even at this early point, you
know, the editorial board of the Naples Daily News and see if we can
get them focusing on a perspective section, for example, on what
have we learned about the study area so far so that we -- you know,
because that's just a real opportunity to communicate to people
because of the volume of information they can deliver there. I just
think that would be a really good idea.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It would be a great story.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But it really ought to be more
than -- I know Eric is here, and I know he's writing a story, but my
plug is for it to be a whole perspective section on what have we
learned so far, what do we know, and then people will be more
informed because there will need to be another perspective section or
two before we finish this.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think that's a great suggestion, and if
any member of the editorial board are watching the show today, we
would encourage you to do that and do it as people begin to come
back particularly to participate with us. Take some of the key things
here and meet with them and really share some concise data with
them that would help them in developing that article so that they
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September 26, 2001
don't have to just rely on hearing it and take notes. The more written
information you can provide them in a concise way would be an
assistance for them in developing that.
MR. MULHERE: As a consensus of the board, I'm sure that
myself in working the staff and the consultants of WilsonMiller we
can put together, you know, a plan to make sure that we take
advantage of that opportunity.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Be sure and take Ann along with you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Jim. Commissioner Carter.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Seriously, don't go without her.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Bob, one of the things I hope
you keep in mind when we get down to the final planning is that we
have land that's continuous to the existing Immokalee boundaries
now. I'm really looking forward to that opportunity about a year and
a half from now to involve the Immokalee community in a master
plan. It will help their community grow for the next 20 to 25 years,
everything from government centers to upscale neighborhoods, new
opportunities involving such entities as Dover Kohl, parks and
schools, whatever we need. But it's not going to help if the land is
spread out separate from Immokalee and it can't be a continuous
piece.
So when you're getting down to the very nitty-gritty at the end, I
hope that your committee gives special consideration to the needs of
the community of Immokalee itself.
MR. MULHERE: Excellent point.
intent.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right.
If we can move to the next presentation.
and Brad Cornell.
Now I have to say "good afternoon,
Without question that is the
Thank you, Bob Mulhere.
It will be by Nancy Payton
"Nancy.
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September 26, 2001
MS. PAYTON: And good afternoon to you. My name is Nancy
Payton. I represent the Florida Wildlife Federation, and thank you
for the opportunity for even having a spot on the agenda today to
share some of our comments and concerns and suggestions for the
remainder of the rural land study.
I want to remind the commissioners and committee members
and consultants and the public that the assessment came about as a
need to protect Collier County's natural resources. It's an outgrowth
of a challenge that was focused on natural resources, and that is the
wildlife and wildlife habitat, not just wetland habitat.
According to our comprehensive plan, natural resource
protection areas, NRPAs, are to protect listed species and their
habitats and may include habitats that need to be enhanced or
improved or restored, which might be some of those farms fields,
quite frankly. If we abandon the term NRPAs, which there's been
some suggestion we might, the county is still obligated to protect
wildlife and wildlife habitat. We may be calling it something else,
we may be doing it in a different manner, but we are obligated to
protect wildlife habitat and wildlife.
The rural land study area is critically located. It connects water
and wildlife to public lands to the north, south, west, and targeted
lands to the east. These lands must be viewed-- that is the rural lands
-- in relationship to the entire county and the unique western
Everglades ecosystem. We got a preview of that from Tim Durham's
presentation.
Panthers and black bears must be guiding species for resource
protection. Woodstorks and scrub jays are also key species. The
comment that we need a viable population of 250 panthers and South
Florida doesn't meet that, that was just a discussion in the first
meeting of the panther recovery team. We don't know yet what the
role South Florida is going to play, particularly Southwest Florida,
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September 26, 2001
but we have panthers -- we have Florida panthers, and no place else
in Florida has them, so we still have that -- and I use that word again
-- obligation to consider them in this planning process.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Did you say no place else in
Florida has Florida panthers?
MS. PAYTON: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's right.
MS. PAYTON: They're in Southwest Florida.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Period.
Oh, heads in the room are shaking. They're a little north of the
Caloosahatchee, but not far.
MS. PAYTON: Well, some of us consider that Southwest
Florida.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's what I was thinking.
MS. PAYTON: They're not in North Florida. They're not in the
panhandle, although those areas are being looked at. I'll gladly
provide you with that information.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Nancy, so that people don't suddenly
just say it's Collier, what I heard was Southwest -- MS. PAYTON: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- which is a very large footprint.
MS. PAYTON: But there's significant populations in Collier
County. My point is that we can't dismiss our obligations to the
panther under this planning process or even under the Endangered
Species Act.
Planning scenarios should include receiving areas outside the
rural lands area. We suggested that Orangetree be one of those
receiving areas that's being looked at. We also are concerned that the
remaining uses on the sending areas and the allowable uses on
conservation in designated lands must be compatible with the reason
that we're sending development rights off there.
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September 26, 2001
To have meaningful protection of wildlife habitat, the intensity
and density of agriculture must be regulated. Why designate
conservation lands or protect wildlife habitat if destructive land uses
are going to be allowed. That doesn't say that agriculture and wildlife
are not compatible because we know that we are, but we do need to
begin to look at what type of agriculture, what type of conversion is
taking place, and what impact that's going to have on wildlife.
A mosaic and interaction of different types of agriculture in
those natural lands seems to work, but we want to stress that ag needs
to be brought into the land-use land-regulating process. It's
controversial, but I think we're going to have to wrestle with it if
we're going to have meaningful protections. We request an economic
study that includes evaluating the tax benefits of agriculture and
natural lands without new towns or rural villages in the rural lands
area.
In 1996 the Florida Stewardship Foundation released a Collier
County study that revealed for every dollar generated by
agriculturally related activities, the county and school spent only 37
cents in direct services, thereby creating a 63 percent surplus on each
dollar. In other words, ag is good for our tax base.
For every dollar generated in residential revenues, $1.20 is spent
in direct services. We ask that this report be updated, and I brought
the summary of it, the key findings, in. If I could pass them that way.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just love this, so I want to say
it one more time. For every dollar we collect in real estate taxes on a
piece of ag land, they require 37 cents worth of services.
MS. PAYTON: According to this 1996 study.
Maybe we need to update it, but it's the best we have now.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So they're a contributor. To the
extent that we can keep ag functioning in Collier County, they're
contributing to the taxes or to the benefits of non-ag lands. We spend
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September 26, 2001
37 cents on them of every dollar they pay. Whereas, for a residential
property, we spend $1.20 for every dollar we collect from a house.
MS. PAYTON: We also think in that equation there ought to be
an evaluation of natural lands because natural lands add value to our
tax base. They generate income because people come here for eco-
tourism. So those are two issues that we would like to see included
in an economic analysis. That it's not just condos and strip malls or
other types of creative -- or other creative -- or creative, I guess I
want to say, planning techniques, and that we look at them from all
perspectives.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The income that's generated
from ag land, how does that benefit the State of Florida through
taxes? You know, you have food that is not taxed, not sales taxed,
but --
MS. PAYTON: I don't know the answer to that. Maybe that's a
good one for one of the ag folks.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
MS. PAYTON: Also --
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
I don't know.
I think it's being duly noted by Mr.
Olliff, and we'll try and get that information.
MS. PAYTON: We're also concerned about the impact to
Immokalee's economy, that is, the Immokalee urban area and its
economy and growth potential from competing new communities.
We've heard reference to new towns, satellite communities, rural
villages. Well, we're concerned that those new towns are not going to
have a positive impact on Immokalee's attempt to diversify and grow
and change.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Doesn't that -- in the
Governor's order, isn't that a part of it? Isn't it planned for?
MS. PAYTON: It doesn't say "planned for." It says something
to the effect of--
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September 26, 2001
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Includes.
MS. PAYTON: -- look at, but it doesn't necessarily say look at
in this area. It said the assessment, and it listed them, but it doesn't
say we have to do it. We can look at it and say, "No, this is not good
for our community at this time." It doesn't say, "You've got to put
new villages out there," and "You've got to put satellite
communities."
When we were involved in negotiating it, that's not what we
thought. Now, it's possible that it can be done and it doesn't draw on
Immokalee and it still protects those natural resources, but we'd like
to see all those different scenarios looked at and optioned so the
community can make those choices.
COMMISSIONER HENNING:
that.
Well, thank you for correcting
MS. PAYTON: Well, I'm giving you my viewpoint of it that we
don't have to do them out there if we don't want to. That's why we're
going through this planning process. It's not necessarily to plan new
towns but what is best for the community.
We urge that the committee and the staff take better advantage
of the technical expertise from state and other government agencies.
We ask that the committee not be territorial and reach out to other
county advisory committees, most notably the Environmental
Advisory Council and members of the original community character
committee who worked on the rural and natural lands issues.
We have an award-winning plan. We saw the award yesterday.
And the test of that plan is not that we did the plan, but we implement
the plan. Here's an opportunity to implement the plan or walk the
talk. We seek clear understanding of how the special study areas --
and we didn't hear about those today. Those are those between --
they're one step below NRPAs -- how those study areas are going to
be studied and how they're going to be treated differently during this
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September 26, 2001
process than the other areas. We really haven't quite figured that one
out.
Lastly, we continue to promote physical planning, lines on a
map as opposed to policies. We think this is clear, it's better, and it
achieves the goals that we are looking for much more easily than
policies.
Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, Nancy, for your continued
participation in this process. I really appreciate -- I think it was said
earlier that people came to the table or got involved in this, you
know, pretty guarded. Some people come into the room, and
everybody is maybe not very trusting of the other people. But what
I'm understanding over time is you've begun to break down those
differences so that you're all working in a more cooperative way.
You still may have a difference of opinion or direction, but you're
being much more -- I want to say productive because you're having a
better interchange and understanding of each other.
MS. PAYTON: Well, I think that's true for all sides, and we're
trying our best to be cooperative and patient in some ways to try and
understand the other side and work out our interests and our concerns
beforehand. I have resented some of the comments that we're just
going to sue anyway, and that isn't true. We prefer not to sue. We
did have to sue to get to the table, quite frankly--
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But you're there.
MS. PAYTON: -- under the old commission. We're there now.
We're being heard, and we're being treated well, which we weren't in
previous times. So we're going to stay there and work the best we
can through that forum.
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You know, Nancy, it turns out
that those of us who were treated poorly -- MS. PAYTON: We're still here.
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September 26, 2001
COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We're here, and we wear it as a
badge of honor.
MS. PAYTON: That's right. We survived. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, some of us are trying to.
Mr. Cornell.
MR. CORNELL: Hello, Commissioners. Brad Cornell. I'm
speaking on behalf of the Collier County Audubon Society, and I
have a brief discussion here about an opportunity that I think that we
all sort of have consensus on, and that was referred to by A1 Reynolds
in looking at the scenario development process where in Scenario 1
he assumed there would be no public funds. But really what we
would prefer to see is that the public pay for public values that are on
private lands. In other words, we don't want to only see regulation. I
think there's consensus that we want to have financial incentives to
do and encourage proper stewardship of private lands, protection of
these values in the name of the public as well as in the interest of the
private landholders in agriculture.
To that end there are several mechanisms that are available. A
few of them include the previously mentioned Rural & Family Lands
Protection Act and the Rural Land Stewardship Act which comes
through this state. One of those is funded, and one of them is not.
It's certainly something to be looked at and advocated for in the
upcoming legislative session.
There is also the Federal Farm Bill which is going to be
reauthorized starting in the fall of 2002 for 10 years. It's a huge bill
and, obviously, very controversial in many respects. The farm bill by
itself does not take care of the needs of Florida. Florida receives very
little support from the farm bill, traditionally, but there are efforts
now to change that, and I will go into that in just a minute.
There is the Working Land Stewardship Act of 2001, which is
HR-2375. That is being offered as an amendment to the farm bill by
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September 26, 2001
Representatives Gilcrest, Spellert (phonetic), and Kind, and this is
what I'm going to detail for you. Ifs got the most potential. The
language of that act as proposed would replace the conservation title
of the farm bill, which will be coming to the floor of the House next
week.
The conservation title would then as proposed in this
amendment dramatically increase funding for agricultural
conservation programs. This is exactly what Florida needs.
Specifically, it would also improve the equity of the distribution of
those funds throughout the country so that Florida or places like
Florida where land values are high -- we can also benefit from those
sort of programs.
There's also a bill called the American Farmland Stewardship
Act which was submitted by Representative Adam Putnam, and that
bill has very valuable concepts in it. It's directed towards
predominantly making these programs better available and more
easily accessed by farmers. Yesterday Commissioner Carter referred
to it as one-stop shopping, and that's, basically, a good assessment of
that. These kind of principles need to be incorporated as well.
Quickly looking at the programs that we want to see used here is
financial incentives for Florida farmers, for Collier County
agriculture specifically. We would stand to benefit greatly from the
amendment that's going to be proposed. The Wildlife Habitat
Incentive Program, these are USDA programs that are funded
through the farm bill. The amendment would propose $500 million a
year for the Wildlife Habitat Incentive Program. This is directly
related to our natural resources issues up there in eastern Collier
County.
The conservation reserve program offers management contracts
and easements to protect 45 million acres of sensitive habitat,
including 3 million acres of listed species habitat and a million acres
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September 26, 2001
of isolated wetlands and 9 million acres of buffers and easements.
All of these things are critical to the success of protecting our
resources. That's 45 million acres only if we get this amendment
passed through the House and ultimately through the Senate and the
president signs it.
The environmental quality incentive program, the proposal is
from the Gilcrest Spellert Kind amendment to put $2 billion into
management contracts to improve conservation of habitat and protect
water resources. The wetlands reserve program provides easements
and cost-share programs to restore and preserve wetlands. The
increase in this program is to an annual acreage of 300,000. These
are national figures. But Florida, again, would be much better
represented through this because of better equity.
Farm land protection program, this is really a core program for
us here in Collier County. It's $500 million a year to purchase
development rights of farms in the path of urban sprawl or
conversion potential. It's a willing-farmer-only program that would
create also a $10 million annual program for market development and
technical assistance on agricultural viability. And, finally, the forest
stewardship programs with $345 million a year for cost share,
technical assistance, and conservation easements on private-land
forests.
The farm bill, as I said, will be coming to the House floor next
Wednesday according to the rules committee, October 3rd. At that
time the Spellert Kind Gilcrest amendment will be offered.
Hopefully, Putnam's principles will be incorporated into that. If they
are not, they need to be worked on and advocated after the fact. This
commission has already passed a resolution in support of that, which
is to be commended, and I think that all of us as individuals and in
our organization can also advocate for these kinds of financial
incentives to go toward the betterment and protection of resources
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September 26, 2001
here in Collier County.
One final note is that the Bush administration, President Bush's
administration, fully supports increased funding for agricultural
conservation programs. They recognize it as a key element to viable
agriculture in the future. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Questions for Brad Cornell.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Just a comment. I truly hope
that these tools are going to be put into the rural land study for
consideration. I do see this as a win-win for Collier County if we can
bring some of those monies back.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Brad, I can't thank you enough for
your efforts, your educational update. I know from Porter Goss's
office and from Representative Putnam's office I'm going to get a
pretty clear early message because that goes to the floor on
Wednesday. I'll be tracking it with those offices. I'll be asking for
feedback as quickly as possible so that we can get it disseminated
into the community so we know what's happening here. Let's keep
your fingers crossed. Let's hope they go for it and it doesn't get
chewed up on the House floor. All right.
MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, the agenda calls for any questions
that the board may have, and I'm sure Nancy or Brad or Allen or Ron
are available to answer anything that the board might have, and if
there are none, then the next item would be the public speakers.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No questions, but just a couple
of comments, if I may. I want to compliment the committee for the
openness that it has and for bringing the environmental interests into
it at this early point in time rather than wait until we reach a final
conclusion and have to duke it out. It never works.
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September 26, 2001
But it's one of the things I -- one more time I want to direct your
attention to the community of Immokalee and hope that we give
special consideration to the land areas around Immokalee and that we
can meet their future needs for growth. The property rights of the
owners have to be respected. Even though they may have large
holdings, they are landowners, and they do have property rights.
Now that I'm looking back on it in retrospect, I'm kind of glad
that this initiative came from their direction. It gives them a
stakehold in this whole thing early on and makes them part of it. I'm
really hoping that under public comments we'll be hearing from some
of the landowners. I'd like to hear their thoughts, their fears, their
hopes of how this is going and the direction it's going. Thafs what I
have at this point in time.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you, Commissioner
Coletta. Any other commissioners have any questions? (No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We'll go to public comment.
MR. OLLIFF: Actually, Mr. Chairman, the only public speaker
we had just waived.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. If there's no other public
comment, again, I want to thank the committee. I want to thank
everyone in this room and all the heavy-duty lifting that's been done
so far on this. Just keep up the good work. Keep coming back to us,
and we're going to end up with a really, really great end result.
Now do we have someone who wants to speak? Yes,
sir.
MR. TAYLOR: Thanks, Tom. In the essence of time, I was
not --
THE COURT REPORTER: Your name, please.
MR. TAYLOR: I'm sorry. I'm Mike Taylor, and I'm here
speaking on behalf of the Eastern Collier Property Owners
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September 26, 2001
Association. In light of the time, I was not going to speak, but with
Commissioner Coletta I felt like I need to speak. I felt like I should
come up and say a few words.
Basically, we've done a lot of work in the last year and a half,
and everyone spoke about that. Annie did a good job of speaking
about that. Ron's talked about it pretty thoroughly, and then A1
Reynolds and his work. At this point I want to take the opportunity
to commend, you know, the efforts of the committee, the county
staff, A1 Reynolds, and WilsonMiller for what they've done so far
with the study.
As you can tell, it's a very complex, complicated issue. We've
done a lot of work, but we've got a long ways to go. We've got some
efforts that we've got to work through. I'm proud to tell you that just
as we had promised -- and I'm talking about the Eastern Collier
properties when we started this process -- is that we have produced
the most accurate and best data available for this area. So we've got
the tools to use, and it's going to be the basis for the foundation for
planning for the future in that area.
We believe that -- and I think Ron had mentioned it and some
others -- we believe that it does open up a tremendous opportunity for
Collier County to take the leadership role for the rural lands for not
only our county, but also as a template for the state. I think the state
-- the stakeholders up there are looking at what we're going to do
down here in Collier County and, you know, we're poised to be the
leaders in that effort.
We're on track to do that. We are going to be working with
every stakeholder that's involved in this process. You know, we've
got some differences, but we're going to work towards those
differences, and it's going to be a win for all of us in the rural land
areas and Collier County and, hopefully, the state as a whole.
A couple of comments on Immokalee. I think what we're going
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September 26, 2001
to do in the rural area will compliment Immokalee. You know, the
planning scenario and whatever happens has got to be -- Immokalee
is going to be very important to this process, and what happens in this
process is going to benefit Immokalee. There's no question about it.
Immokalee is key to what we do and how we proceed with our
process. That's all I have to say.
Any questions or comments? We appreciate your support and
the committee's effort and, hopefully, we can move forward.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you very much. Thank
you, again, board members and audience.
God bless America.
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
workshop was adjourned by order of the Chair at 12:32 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTROL
JAMES D. 'CARTER, Ph.D, CHAIRMAN
,.-ATTEST::
"DW.I,GH2' E. BROCK, CLERK
Attest ~s to Ch~tr~n'$
signature on15.
Page 83
September 26, 2001
These minutes approved by the Board on
presented,/~ or as corrected
////,t/~ / , as
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT
REPORTING, INC., BY MARGARET A. SMITH, RPR
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