PARAB Minutes 11/19/2014 Parks and Recreation
Advisory Board
Minutes
November 19 , 2014
November 19, 2014
MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD
Naples, Florida, November 19, 2014
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Parks and Recreation
Advisory Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 2:00 P.M. in a REGULAR SESSION at
North Collier Regional Park, Administration Building, Conference Room A,
15000 Livingston Road, Naples, Florida, with the following members
present:
CHAIRMAN: Edward "Ski" Olesky
VICE CHAIR: Phil Brougham
Mary Bills
John Fuchs
McMurdo Smith
David Saletko (Absent)
Rebecca Gibson-Lamel
ALSO PRESENT: Barry Williams, Director
Jeanine McPherson Hogle, Assistant Director PAR
Amanda Townsend, Director- Operations Support
Nancy Olson, Regional Manager I
Rick Garby, Maintenance Supervisor
Hank Jones, Facilities Management
Sue Zimmerman, Real Property Management
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Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Meeting
November 19, 2014-2PM.
North Collier Regional Park
U_5 , lligff
I. Call to Order
II. Pledge of Allegiance and Invocation By 6012-
III. Approval of Agenda
IV. Approval of October 15, 2014 Minutes
V. Staff Highlights
• Capital Project Review—Facilities Management
VI. New Business
• Big Corkscrew Island Regional Park—Amanda Townsend
VII. Old Business
• PARAB Member's Terms—Barry Williams
• Pelican Bay Community Park—Barry Williams
• Adopt a Park Follow up list—Rick Garby
• Clam Pass Boardwalk Project—Barry Williams
• Naples Grande Easement—Sue Zimmerman
• Parking Fees—Barry Williams
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VIII. Adopt a Park reports
IX. Director Highlights—Barry Williams
X. Informational Items
Xl. Public Comments/Board Comments—Marcia Cravens
XII. Adjournment
November 19, 2014
Call to Order
Chairman Olesky called the meeting to order at 2:00 P.M.
A quorum was established. Six (6) voting members were present.
II. Pledge of Allegiance and Invocation
The Pledge of Allegiance was recited and Invocation was held.
III. Approval of Agenda
Add: VII. Marsha Cravens after Parking Fees
Vice Chair Brougham moved to approve Agenda as amended.
Second by Mr. Fuchs.
Motion carried unanimously; 6—0.
IV. Approval of October 15, 2014 Minutes
Strike: VIII. John Fuchs left at 2:55 PM
Change: VIII. Parking at Wiggins Pass to Parking at Connor Park
Ms. Bills moved to approve the October 15, 2014 Minutes as amended.
Second by Mr. Fuchs.
Motion carried unanimously; 6—0.
V. Staff Highlights
Capital Project Review
Barry Williams provided a Capital Projects Update dated October 16, 2014.
(See attached) He reported all items highlighted in yellow have been completed
and will be removed when list is updated.
• Eagle Lakes Community Center estimated time for completion in
February. A Park Program Supervisor, Mr. Matt Lee, has been hired to
coordinate that project with Facilities Management in selecting items for
that Community Center. A grand opening date has not been selected at
this time.
Ms. Bills inquired about an article in the Collier Newspaper regarding
Commissioner Fiala and the progress of the Community Center.
Hank Jones responded there were some quality issues with the contractor that
caused a three (3) week delay. Some important details were not followed under
the contract. The Contractor was made to remove a third of the roof already
installed and some gutters; and then reinstall them properly. The Contractor also
did not follow installment specifications to prevent windows from future leaks.
The Contractor was made to remove the windows and do them correctly.
Ms. Gibson-Lamel asked if an interested pickle ball enthusiast meeting had been
held.
Barry Williams responded Jeanine McPherson-Hogle met with some of the
pickle ball enthusiast early on. Considering developing internally.
A question was asked if East Naples expanding to pickle ball.
No plans for PAR to add lines to courts that don't have the lines already.
Additional capital project questions were addressed by Staff.
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VI. New Business
Big Corkscrew Island Regional Park
Staff distributed Big Corkscrew Island Regional Park Meeting minutes from
Public Information Meetings held on September 30 and October 30, 2014.
BCIRP Vote Results and the BCIRP and Flyer information on BCIRP website.
(See attached)
Amanda Townsend gave a slide presentation on government facilities and a brief
history on the BCIRP. BCIRP Master Plan was designed in 2006 and due to the
economic decline was not started. On September 30 and October 30 a design and
information public meetings were held. The most important elements that were
incorporated in to 2006 design plan:
• Community Center- ranked#1 without any negative votes.
• Interactive Water Feature
• Walking and Jog Path
• Soccer Fields
New elements suggested and were not in the 2006 Plan included:
• Little league complex
• Gymnasium
• Pool and Aquatic complex - seems to be bubbling up to the top, as
something that is important to the community.
The County is hosting an on-line conversation and interactive website, where
folks can go register, post ideas and go up and down on other folk's ideas to have
conversation with the public on what they want at BCIRP.
She reported several community groups have been holding there own meetings;
Golden Gate Civic Association, Homeowners Association of Golden Gate
Estates, Waterways Community and possibly Corkscrew Island and Orange Tree
Association have all been working together. The County is getting dribbles of
feedback from them.
She explained the proposed phasing and funding plan. The plan is to possibly
break ground in September/October 2015 to begin to deliver Phase I.
Phase II could include a Community Center, as well as an aquatic complex by
2019.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Can I ask you a question?
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Mm hmmm.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: I'm sure there is an
Engineering or funding reason.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Mm hmm.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: but the Community Center,
ranked far away, number (1) one and the four (4) soccer fields are 4th and 5th,
why aren't they switched, why don't you put the Community Center in Phase I?
AMANDA TOWNSEND: It is a possibility and we've
discussed it. At this time, generally speaking, you've got to get that infrastructure
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November 19, 2014
and horizontal construction in first, so that, it is sort of an industry standard for
the way that parks and ...
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: I know, I'm in site work and
utilities.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: (Laugh)
VICE CHAIRMAN BROUGHAM: Then we move down to
four(4) soccer fields for $3,000,000.
BARRY WILLIAMS: Let me respond to that, if I could,
because I've had some input into that decision. I think, you know, there is a
couple of things that are coming out of this and there are so many moving parts to
this thing but the one is, in kinda of like what we've done at Eagle Lakes where
we... and what we've done at Golden Gate and Immokalee Sports Complex,
were you have a community center pool combo. If we had those components in
the initial phase. The other consideration there, is staffing and operational costs.
So...
VICE CHAIRMAN BROUGHAM: Mm Hmm
BARRY WILLIAMS: you know, the thought of trying to get
in and get as much as you can, in terms of a park for the public to use as quickly
as they can. It just seemed that in that initial phase, where those components...
VICE CHAIRMAN BROUGHAM: (inaudible)
AMANDA TOWNSEND: and of course, staffing and
operational costs come into consideration, as well as, the complication of trying
to complete infrastructional construction once you got people in the parking
VICE CHAIRMAN BROUGHAM: (inaudible)
MCMURDO SMITH: I have a question Amanda, down there,
where you have the Community Center at 7,000 sq. ft.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Mm Hmm.
MCMURDO SMITH: I think it is a little small for that area.
Most of the other ones that we've been building lately, have been what... about?
About 10,000 plus. In that area, out there, where is a lot of population and growth,
I think you should either make it a little bigger with a possibility of expansion
versus 7,000, because a 7,000 sq. ft. building is not very big. This is just my...
this is my comment.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: No, I absolutely here you. We
have seen, for example, at Community Park that was started at 7,000
and had an expansion in several places. The plan would definitely be to leave
room for expansion. We heard loud and clear... In fact, the 2006 plan had a
5,000 sq. ft. community center. We heard loud and clear from the community that
they did not think that was sufficient. Of course, to build the bigger community
center, all at once, delays... you know... delays your funding.
MCMURDO SMITH: It is, but there again, it is their number
one priority.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Okay.
MCMURDO SMITH: Okay. Going to the aquatic complex. I
know at the meeting there was a big outcry for the aquatic complex and also there
was an outcry from the Athletic Director and Diving Coach at the high school
. I just want to say there was a difference between a competitive pool
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and a recreation pool. If we are going to build a pool for the high school swim
team, I think we have to combine a recreation and a competitive pool. And
then... why isn't the school building a competition pool for the high school team?
They built a football fields and a baseball fields. So,then we can build a
recreation pool that we could...you know... like Sun N Fun where there is less
water depth and all that, because when you get in to competition the water has to
be higher and you don't get as much family type of activity. That is my only
concern there.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: We have... before we go to speak
the Board on December 9th... umm, if at all possible we'll be having some
conversion with the School District because we want to identify usual needs and
have those kind of conversations with them. We haven't done that yet... umm,
but it is on our radar in the very near future.
MCMURDO SMITH: A comment made was... We have to
drive our swim team all the way to Immokalee to swim. Well, the school is right
there.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: And the school is incurring
operational cost for that.
MCMURDO SMITH: I think the school should build it.
(Laughter)
(Background remarks made by others - inaudible)
BARRY WILLIAMS: We can take those comments into the
discussions with the School Board.
(Laughter)
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: If you'll build it, we'll use it.
(Laughter)
AMANDA TOWNSEND: So when we start to look further
out in the planning window, things get fuzzier. An initiative, that has been
running parallel to our conversations with the community about the Big
Corkscrew Island Regional Park... umm, is an initiative that we got direction by
the County Board about, about a year ago... and that is to attempt to look for an
appropriate location for a soccer complex in a private/public partnership to be
built by the Southwest Florida Soccer Foundation Naples Adrenaline.
Ummm, right now, we think that there may be some possibilities to develop that
partnership in a third phase of this Park that was certainly not anticipated when
the 2006 plan was done and... and really has only been on staff radar screen since
this spring. The reason for that is that the ... let's go back to this slide here... the
Public Utilities Division commissioned an Optimization Study to look at ROW
planning and infrastructure planning and what have you ... in this entire Northeast
area. And one of interesting things that came out of this study with that
Consultant did is ... was that this 90 acre lake here, which in 2006 was anticipated
to be a recreational lake... is... it is probably of poor quality and very low... has
very shallow depth and some maintenance challenges and may/could be used
better, as water management and with some fill, creating some more park acreage,
rather than being used as a full 90 acre recreational lake. And here is what that
looked like when it came out of that Optimization Study that was commissioned
by Public Utilities. That would be the lake and the concept would be to dig
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November 19, 2014
deeper where there is water and accumulate fill for more acreage for park
facilities within that footprint. Here again, this is still kind of in a feasibility
stage but we think there is a potential there that it would work and a potential that
would be a place to locate the soccer complex.
MCMURDO SMITH: At the meeting, the people who were
there; were completely, almost 100% against that accept if there a pool was
involved. So, are you still going back with this same plan... going back to the
Board?
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Well, so far,the kind of input
we've gotten... we absolutely know that the community members in... in
particularly in the immediate area but also in surrounding areas are not at all
interested in a soccer complex initiative, particularly in the upper 59 acres. We
surveyed by hand at the meeting about... "Well, what about in the third phase, in
the lake area?" And we got about 15 no's and 5 maybe's... umm... on-line I'm
are getting the same kind of feedback. Just recent...just as recently as this
morning, the Civic Association and the Homeowners Association, have both
reached out and said"we want to make sure we have fully contemplated this
concept; can you forward us more information?" So, nobody has taken this
completely off the table yet.
MCMURDO SMITH: Sure sounded like it is.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Can you go back to slide 3?
To that overall grinder...wherever, wherever that was. Umm. No. No. Nope.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: This one. No. (Moves slides)
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Nope. There. What is that
up at the top? That race track...
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Parking lot.
MURCO SMITH: Parking lot.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: A parking lot.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Yes.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: And then go to the slide that
shows the Sheriff's Substation, , and so forth. Okay. And... right in the
middle... how... Point to where the potential soccer facility would be.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: This is that 90 acres.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Right there. Okay. What is
the distance between the soccer complex and that housing development to the
left?
AMANDA TOWNSEND: I couldn't tell you off... I
couldn't...
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: A thousand yards.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Feet.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: A thousand feet. Well, I
wasn't at that meeting... but I can tell you what my opinion would be... that due
to the traffic and the all the activity that would be at the soccer complex, day or
night or both... if I lived there, I wouldn't want any part of it either.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: That's understood. Of course,
it is a Regional Park so it has a draw .
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Yeah, I know but umm.
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November 19, 2014
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Something else I should add...
is that there will be a ROW alignment that should come in right about here. So,
there will be vehicular access to the park from the Southeast, as well as the
Northwest.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Having a soccer complex at
North Collier Park... is one thing, you look around and you don't see any homes
around here.
BARRY WILLIAMS: Well, (inaudible)
MARY BILLS: Shortly will.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Well,this was here before
the homes were built. Just an observation.
MCMURDO SMITH: I also think the public out there was
against the private sector building that facility. I don't think they would be
opposed to having more soccer fields in the lower area, down there, as
long as it is under control by the County control and not a private . That
was kind of the feeling I got.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Yeah, and that will take more
conversations with the community. Obviously,to have a public/private
partnership is a significant savings to the County... umm, both for construction
costs and operational costs. At this point we are encouraging Southwest Soccer
Foundation to reach out to the Community and find out what the concerns are.
And see if they can be addressed or not. Maybe they can and maybe they can't
and of course, ultimately, it would be truly a Boards decision, as well.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Aren't they... the Soccer
Foundation... aren't they also looking at all available potential sites in this area or
are they sort of,pointing their gun right there.
AMANDA TOWNSEND: No,no, in fact, we met with
Mr. Budzke this morning and he is remains open to other locations, as well.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: You know, Madam
Recorder, some of these comments that happened, like the past 10 minutes and so
forth, if those could more towards the verbatim side than a top level summary, I
think it's important for the Board Members comments to get in the minutes. The
minutes, are a lot of times read by the Commissioners and others and I think input
from PARAB Members is important for them to see.
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Do we have any public
speakers?
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Nope.
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: You're not done yet?
AMANDA TOWNSEND: I think I am done. I think I am
done.
BARRY WILLIAMS: I don't know that we were looking,
Mr. Chair, for anything other than informational at this point. I think that we did
want to bring this... a summary of... kind of... the results of the community
meetings... There is a desire to for us to go to the Board of County
Commissioners.., and do likewise and get some direction from them. I do
appreciate comments,they will certainly be noted and brought forward, but that if
you do have public comments... certainly.
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November 19, 2014
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Just to add on to that,
though, and we have discussed this at the last meeting to some extent. To clarity
in the process the role of the Parks and Recreational Advisory Board in these
processing. I think the public meetings are absolutely essential for a step... and
as plans,we can all get more specific and get a combination of plans,potential
plans,public input and as so forth. To vent it through this Board is absolutely a
good thing to do, as part of process going forward... not in the rebound... and
that's my comment to incorporate our comments going forward.,, and that is my
opinion,not the Board's opinion but I think we heard last time,this Board wants
to play a more active role, in the process, in a timely fashion rather than a
retroactive.
BARRY WILLIAMS: I appreciate that and we'll certainly
endeavor to do that. I do want to say... I do want to thank Mr. Smith for being at
the public meeting. That was very helpful to have that insight. So, I appreciate
that.
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Now public comments.
CORRINE PULIZZOTTO: Hi, my name is Corrine. I am
a Waterway's resident. I've been at the meetings about this, and we were
definitely fine about a recreation park, long overdue out there. The problem is...
the privately owned homes situation, we've worked with the fairgrounds, we tried
(inaudible), and also tried being good neighbors. Now, you're having a privately
owned... that's a problem we have. There is nothing out there. There are no
restaurants, no hotels, no anything. (Inaudible) I just want to let you know... we
are very concern about it. There are four communities surrounding this park. Not
access can happen when the fairground roads(inaudible) ... We have phase
parking when that happens. We have porta potties set-up on the road when the
fairgrounds come out, cause there's nothing out there. This is a problem and we
are very,very concern about this. There is miles before you can get into this
because of the four surrounding communities. That's all. I just wanted to share
that. Thank you.
SHIRLEY COTHRAN: My name is Shirley Cothran. I am
from Waterways also. I am going to look at this a little bit differently... and there
has been a lot of talk about this park for the community and the things that should
go into it to serve the community. But I asked at one of the public meetings and I
think I might have irritated some people... as to why County Staff was spending
time doing site search for a private company... and the reply they made... made
me start to think that these people do work for the County Commissioners and
that's why they were doing it. Then I also look at an RFP that the County did.
We're talking about giving this man, 60 acres. The value of the land out there is
$30,000 per acre. We are talking about giving him, 1.8 million dollars' worth of
land. He said he'll would put some of his own money into it. But quite frankly, I
have never heard of this man before this thing came up... I'm not sure many
people have. In the RFP,that I looked at... it asked for the company's
qualifications to do a project... it asks for their employee's experience... it asks
for other projects and if they met the deadlines, did they come in on budget...
they asked for asked for canals and a mitigation study. I don't know if you
have gotten all those things from this man or not,but I think those things should
be done before the County commits money... commits land to him, because that's
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November 19, 2014
what you do. I just don't know... and you can tell me whether or not... the due
diligence has been done or not concerning this project. I watched a Board of
Commissioners meeting, from last December... and those people were all excited
and that is great to have enthusiasm but they weren't asking any business
questions... and you know, I thought its part of the job. That's my other
(inaudible)that have come out in other meetings, there has been some emotional
meetings. So we do have real concerns. We do ...we get hit with... my house
gets hit with light solutions from the schools ball field because I'm right behind it.
It hits a friend of mine's house. It doesn't bother me because I'm in the back of
my house. The houses in Waterways, there is a number of them. I know because
I sent them emails last night. ... It is their backyards that will be looking at this
park. I won't bore you today... maybe I will email, if I have the email
addresses... of pictures,those people have taken out of the back of their house
and what they see looking at from their back of their homes.
No one has mentioned a thing about privacy walls or sound barriers or any of this.
I don't know if they are in the plans or not but I didn't see them. So...
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: They're a bunch of years
away from that detail. Right now it is just concepts. I mean bare bones concept,
all you see is what is on the slide. You got years, believe me.
SHIRLEY COTHRAN: The other thing... (Inaudible)
where did they place the stadium? ... On the west end of land there, at the lake, it
is closer to Waterways than to the high school, or the orchards or the water
treatment plant. So...
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Email your concerns and
pictures into the County Commissioners as well as here. Those people are going
to make the decision.
SHIRLEY COTHRAN: And we are doing that. But we...
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Sometimes we like the
decisions here, but we're not allowed. All we can make are recommendations.
SHIRLEY COTHRAN: That is what we would like, your
comments to help us.
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Going to Old Business.
MURDO SMITH: Can I ask a question before we go on to
Old Business?
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Yes.
MURDO SMITH: Barry, there's a question that I think
you brought up also... about the possibility of filling in that lake and using it for
more recreational facilities... has there been any look into what this might cost or
anything or?
BARRY WILLIAMS: Public Utilities did an Optimization
Study and suggested we could fill it in and create another 45 acres.
MURCO SMITH: Okay. Did they say how much be to fill
that in at some point?
BARRY WILLIAMS: We've had some rough estimates.
There is a variety of scenarios you can pursue. That the ... I am not even sure I
got a good range, but it would be... at $30,000 an acre, you know... to go buy
land, it would be worth our while to do it and to develop it and to create that there.
MURDO SMITH: I think maybe, if that's a feasibility...
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November 19, 2014
instead of putting a soccer complex in, maybe look at filling that in and putting
other County recreation facilities in those 45 acres that would be what the public
would need, maybe a little league complex, Everyone is looking for... where the
lights could be well maintained... or something like that. I think we should
continue to look at that, it is very valuable, to have those extra 45 acres.
BARRY WILLIAMS: Absolutely. And I do think that is
the intent... that's to get to the Board and say we've had these public meetings
and this is the kind of feedback we are getting. Certainly we are hearing people's
opposition to Mr. Budzke's proposal. And at this is the point, I think, from the
Staff point of view, keep your options open... let's look at it. There is an
initiative in Lee County that was just talked about, similar kind of deal, a
private/public partnership where they developed basketball/volleyball space for...
from... rerun from a private sector. I think our question is... and the questions
is... What can Mr. Budzke provide that will benefit the public? I think he is
working hard to try to define that. Whether it is a good idea or not, whether it
should be here or not... I think, ultimately we are going to go to the Board and get
them to give us some direction so.
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Is there some other property that
was for sale were the groves were? At one time... I thought...
BARRY WILLIAMS: I think that went under... Mr. Paul
sold those lands to a private developer. So thank you for letting us bring this to
you and we will do this more than what perhaps, we have done in the past.
MURDO SMITH: When does it go before the Board again?
BARRY WILLIAMS: December 9th
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: In the same sense in what
you've presented, Amanda?
AMANDA TOWNSEND: A little more refined.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: More power point?
BARRY WILLIAMS: She cleans up a little better before.
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Any other comments?
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Well, I think you should
say... that you had a review session with the PARAB and there were public
comments. Otherwise
AMANDA TOWNSEND: Yes.
VII. Old Business
PARAB Member's Terms
Barry Williams provided a copy of an email sent to PABAB Members on
October 27, 2014. (See attached) He reviewed:
• Advisory Board Member terms are for four(4) years.
• The new Advisory Board Member, Ms. Rebecca Lamel, was approved by
the Board yesterday.
• Board Members with terms due to expire on December 31, 2014,
applications were approved at the November Board of County
Commissioner's meeting.
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November 19, 2014
Pelican Bay Community Park
Staff distributed copies of a Special Warranty Deed and Declaration of
Restrictions and Protective Covenants for Parcel "A", Pelican Bay Unit
Nineteen; both dated September 26, 1994. Also distributed: Executive Summary:
Recommendation to approve the expenditure of Tourist Development Beach Park
Facilities Tax Funds for$734,370 with Q. Grady Minor and Associates, P.A.for
Request For Proposal number 14-6301, "Design Services for Clam Pass", and
make a finding that this expenditure promotes tourism. (See attached)
Barry Williams reported:
• Any improvements made to Pelican Bay Community Park requires the
approval of the Pelican Bay Foundation.
• He is not opposed to reinstalling a baseball field at Pelican Bay. He noted
the previous field had received very little use.
Discussion was made on lights, maintenance and the reinstallation of the baseball
field to be used for little league baseball.
Adopt a Park Follow up List
Staff provided a"Park Follow-Up List." (See attached) Due to a shortage of
Staff, the list is not as comprehensive as he prefers. He will expanded on it.
He will provide the list on a regular basis.
Rebecca Gibson-Lamel asked if she would be assigned any parks to report on.
Barry Williams responded yes and this is something we'll have to talk about.
Clam Pass Boardwalk Project
BARRY WILLIAMS: Just for the audience. There are a
couple of things we wanted to do with this item. One is, we do have an Agenda
Item that we have in your packet... that we are asking for your approval on. But
rather than to do that... then... two items later let Marsha talk... I think we might
need to reconsider that. What I wanted to do initially, was just to tell you where
we were with this project, I think that was the question that had emerged last
month,to what extent we kept you all in the dark, our apologies,that was not in
our intent. I put a couple of things in your packet to kinda let you know the
progression of this thing. I actually approached the Pelican Bay Foundation
last... I want to say last winter and talked to them about a project that has been on
the books for some time. That's to redo the Clam Pass Park parking lot, install a
kayak launch and to extend a southern boardwalk from the existing boardwalk.
And when I went to the Pelican Bay Foundation and talked to them about that...
they had a lot of questions about that project. Primarily, its impact on the current
mangroves that are there,permitting requirements,the big question was the need
that we had for that project. All those kind of questions. Throughout that
conversation with the Pelican Bay Foundation, I was actually asked by Marsha to
talk to Pelican Bay Services Division. Which I did, and talked to them about just
kind of our plans our thoughts. I was also invited to attend a Mangrove Action
Group, as well,to talk to them. And so we are starting to get interest certainly in
this project, as far as; what we are doing with it,why we are doing it and how
we're going to do it.
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November 19, 2014
The initial stages of this... the money has been appropriated in this project, at
least since 2007. The concept is simple with the southern boardwalk is to extend
it down the property line,that we own in Clam Pass. It is a public park... that
what we see is that people will go out to the park and at a certain point they will
either go north or south or stop. So the concept is to try to spread people down
the beach and get them down to the beach.
What we've done at this point is... were asking for funding. The money has been
appropriated, it's in the budget. But whenever we take a step to spend money, we
go to the Tourist Development Council (TDC.) We go to the Board of County
Commissioners. We haven't traditionally gone to you for this, because it is not an
area where you are appropriating money or okaying funds. But given the interest
and the need for us to be as transparent as could, we wanted to bring this to you
and let you hear from people who may be affected by it and then ask for your ups
or downs on bringing this forward. What I would tell you too... since this is a
project that is already approved by the Board of County Conunissioners/TDC. If
you vote down, I still feel an obligation to bring it forward and tell them that's
where you guys are. If you vote up, I would also let them know that as well.
That is kind of the history of the project... where we are... where we are today.
Hank Jones is here.
In your packet is an Executive Summary that would go to the TDC that would go
to the Board of County Commissions. (See attached) I will read for everyone's
sake.... Recommendation is to approve the expenditure Tourist Development
Beach Park Facilities Tax Funds for$734,370 with Q. Grady Minor and
Associates P.A. for Request for Proposal (RFP)Number 14-6301 for Design
Services for Clam Pass Park Boardwalk and Restroom Facility and make a
finding that this expenditure promotes tourism.
The last thing I'll say about this is... if this is approved, we would work with a
Consultant. The expectation from of the Pelican Bay Foundation, we did meet
their... with a Sub Committee at their behest,to look at the plans we had... at
conceptual drawings we had... and they asked us to take away several things and
to improve several things, which we intend to do. If we hire a design Consultant,
that is what we would ask the Consultant to do,to make that conceptual drawing
according to the feedback that we've gotten from the Pelican Bay Foundation and
ultimately we would bring that Conceptual Drawing back to Pelican Bay
Foundation for their initial approval. There are three (3) levels of approval that
we have to achieve with the Pelican Bay Foundation... and this would be the first
step. So there is a lot of opportunity for public input and it is something that the...
Hank Jones wants to say something.
HANK JONES: I want to... I got a question...just
because I get stuck with doing what everybody says. (Laughter) We had a lot of
talk earlier in this meeting on what the public needs and public wants. I'm
confused on this Clam Pass thing on the interplay between what the public wants
and what Pelican Bay Foundation wants. I don't how that should be addressed.
But I think we should give this project the same benefit of public... public input
as the input from the Pelican Bay Foundation. But I am not aware of the
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November 19, 2014
agreements out there. I'm just talking as a citizen, representing whatever the
public might want at this facility that perhaps some other interest don't want.
BARRY WILLIAMS: Good.
HANK JONES: Well, that fell flat, didn't it? (Laughter)
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Nice comment (inaudible)
BARRY WILLIAMS: Mr. Chair... if you like... I mean...
that would be the presentation I would give you about this project. It might be
appropriate to hear... from some of your...
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: That's... I'm going there...
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: This Executive Summary is
to approve funding an RFP that will provide the need around a conceptual design
based upon feedback and input from? Interested parties... concerned parties... all
parties...
BARRY WILLIAMS: Well, there is several levels of this
project being vetted. TDC, the Collier County Board of County
Commissioners... ultimately if this RFP was approved. We would hire Q. Grady
Minor and what they would do is begin the conceptual plans that were consistent
with what the public would like and what the Foundation would like and
ultimately to have approval by the Foundation.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: I just want some clarity on
that. I don't like the idea of spending $734,370 to an Engineer to go forward in
developing a conceptual plan (inaudible) vacuum of input from all the interested
parties. And that is what I would like some clarity on. If this is approved by all
people who have the authority to approve it; and if Q. Grady Minor goes off in his
office and based on what he heard from Pelican Bay Foundation, develops a
conceptual plan, comes out of out of the box and everybody boos and hisses...
that's not a good expenditure of funds. I don't... I am trying to understand that
process.
HANK JONES: If I may comment?
BARRY WILLIAMS: Oh, please.
HANK JONES: What we would do in an RFP. We have
stops built in, phases of the design effort. And the very first one is to come up
with the input and the concepts. At that point... it is like a go, no go. That may
send you back to the interested parties to proceed to more details. Just in case
there is a problem.
BARRY WILLIAMS: The interesting thing about that to
consider is... whether the southern boardwalk is a good idea or not as we go
forward... there are some elements, like the kayak launch and the parking lot
redo... which may be some good elements. So, if we are able to move forward
with some of the elements that is better than just to kill the whole thing. I think.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: (Inaudible)
BARRY WILLIAMS: But your point too is a good one.
Do you spend money now for a boardwalk nobody one wants? I don't know.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Well, we don't know that
nobody wants it. Everyone isn't here... put it that way.
MURDO SMITH: I've got a question here. If the concepts
is okay with Grady Minor, whoever... if there is not as many facilities would their
fee be reduced?
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November 19, 2014
BARRY WILLIAMS: I don't follow your question.
MURDO SMITH: say if they build a bathroom but not a
boardwalk, or build a boardwalk and no bathroom... would there be a reduction?
BARRY WILLIAMS: They get paid by the services they
provide so...
MURDO SMITH: And my next question Barry is... Is this
a Tourist Development Beach Park Facility Funds or TDC Funds... is it Fund
183?
BARRY WILLIAMS: Fund 183 Beach Park Facility
Funds
MURDO SMTIH: Did this come through PARAB?
BARRY WILLIAMS: It did. It has been on the books for
a long time. Funds have been appropriated since 2007. It's been a while.
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Do I have any Public Comments
on this? (Laughter) How many people want to speak on it? Well in that case we
are going to have to limit you to 3 minutes.
MARSHA CRAVENS: I was requested... excuse me...
Marsha Cravens with the Sierra Club. As you know all of this all came about
today because I attended the October PARAB meeting and I brought it to your
attention that there were RFPs going forward without any apparent meetings...
without being brought before PARAB or any other Advisory Boards... that I
could find and brought to your attention. I was requested to come back and do a
presentation this month. So I have put together a PowerPoint, which I hope will
work, it is basically, it is just some slides to help provide a little more background
information on the real reason why this preliminary conceptual basis has given
everybody so much heartburn.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Marsha, who are you
speaking down on behalf of all these people?
MARSHA CRAVENS: I am speaking on the behalf of the
Sierra Club and we have a Regional Group. But I am empowered to speak as one
voice for the Sierra Club which we have many, many members in Florida. And
we have Regional and National members, which I am speaking on their
behalf.
She was unable to show slides in the beginning of her presentation due to
technical difficulties.
Marsha Cravens gave a slide presentation and the history on Pelican Bay/Clam
Pass area. She spoke on natural resources, conservation and preservation areas.
Some groups thought a lot of the projects proposed were not appropriate for this
location.
She noted Mr. McAlpin stated the basis for the conceptual plans was to spread
people out on the beach. People naturally spread out, they don't need a
boardwalk.
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November 19, 2014
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Question Marsha,just so I
understand... and this is all good input ... and all good background for us and very
informative. The question at hand is... we have a proposed Executive Summary
going forward... it's going to go forward on the 9th. Are you taking a position
against... this...
MARSHA CRAVENS: Yes. The Sierra Club has been
against...
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Wait... let me finish...
please... are you're taking a position against the disbursement of any funds...
MARSHA CRAVENS: No.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: or Engineering and design
from input from the public. Because... the reason I ask that... is because Hank
said the RFP contains stops... where public input and reviews of step by step
design is included. So, to get started with anything... you have to have some
funds approved. If I am hearing him correctly... and I haven't seen the RFP... if
I am hearing him correctly, there are stop points that solicits input from all
concerned stockholders along the way. And you said you were against this
Executive Summary,then you are against(inaudible)
MARSHA CRAVENS: No sir. What the Sierra Club
objects to... is the conceptual basis because all of the construction projects, at
least according to Mr. McAlpin,emanated from some arbitrary decision that all of
the construction needed to be done to spread people out on the beach. And...
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: That's good enough. I've
reread the first paragraph and it says under Objective, for a three phase
engineering design project for the construction of additional boardwalk and
restrooms at Clam Pass. Those are the fighting words from your perspective.
MARSHA CRAVENS: Right and the thing about this...
these concerns, questions and objections have been raised anytime there has been
any knowledge of... the Sierra,the Mangrove Action Group, The Conservancy,
other user groups... and there has been some modifications. I think they took out
the permanent shade structures... and they took out the observation deck and I
think they modified the canoe and kayak launch but the major thing and the
conceptual basis has continued to roll on.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: I'm not trying to words in
your mouth. I'm going to shut up in a minute. I think you... I hear that you have
made comments and the people have made input along the way, as they knew
they had the opportunity to do so. And you feel there is a train going down the
road
MARSHA CRAVENS: Yes sir.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: and those comments have
been falling on deaf ears and they are going to continue to fall on deaf years
unless...
MARSHA CRAVENS: Yes and the thing is... I came to
one of the February meetings, one of those annual meetings that PARAB holds in
February. It was the very meeting that Commissioner Fiala came and finally was
getting some traction on Eagle Lakes Community Center. I remember because
one of the items that was discussed and approved was the mobi mat kayak launch,
which I thought this was wonderful. But at that meeting, I recommended that this
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November 19, 2014
project planning go back to square one and not to proceed any further... I had the
support, you know... members of this board expressed their support for that and
we didn't hear anything for years... and I thought... I was shocked when it came
up again.
CHAIR OLESKY: John, do you have something?
JOHN FUCHS: Just curious... the previous slide... from
the facility... going down... how far is it?
GEORGE FOGG: Excuse me, I can give you the specifics
on that... if you would. It is 550' from the beach access to the end of where the
hotel has their umbrellas and tableside... I it off on Sunday.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: We can only hear one person
at a time. So please...
MICHAEL SERF: I was going to pass out shortly, grilling
down more on Marsha's comments. It's about a 1000' give or take from the
boardwalk, as you see there... down to the proposed washroom location.
MARY BILLS: Mr. Chair...Okay, as one of the newer
Board members... why did Parks come up with the idea of... where would the
additional restroom be? Down here at the far end of the beach or... or at the end
of the boardwalk?
BARRY WILLIAMS: Let me show you... if you don't
mind.
MARSHA CRAVEN: Go ahead. (She paused and
continued to point out the existing facility plus... and the end of the property)
MARY BILLS: Okay... so your objection is to an
additional restroom at that end and you want to see any expansion to the restroom
done to the existing restroom area and you don't want to see a boardwalk going
down that way... and... my questions to Parks is... what was our reasoning for
the boardwalk and the restroom?
BARRY WILLIAMS: As Marsha mention, it was the
concept of spreading people down the beach. The thought is... people don't
venture to far from the bathrooms on the beach so if you gave them another spot,
you can spread them out better.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Barry, I have a question for
you. Did this group create this plan or was this not a creation of Coastal Zone
Management and then given to you guys?
BARRY WILLIAMS: It's a good question. I appreciate it.
It actually originated from Parks, we gave it to Coastal Zone Management and
they ran with it... and you know how that went. (Laughter) and so now, they
have given it back. It actually started... there was a Workshop the Board did... I
want to say 2004, where they were trying to come up with ideas to expand beach
access. Our issues are... we just don't have enough access points and the County
was getting larger. This was an idea that was born from it. There have been a
variety of ideas that have since died. There was one, where we were going to take
people from Bayview to a shuttle to Kewaydin. The City really knock that one
out of the park. So these are ideas, these are just...
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: There is another element...
this is a why put... why are they going to put a tram down here?
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November 19, 2014
MARSHA CRAVENS: And that is not really to scale.
Because the way Mr. McAlpin described this additional boardwalk... is that it
was going wide enough to be able to accommodate emergency vehicles and I
don't think we got an exact width on it, but I was under the impression it was
going to be 10-12' wide.
BARRY WILLIAMS: Gordon River Greenway... we just
finished... that multi-use pathway is 12'
MARSHA CRAVENS: Yes, most of them are 12' now.
BARRY WILLIAMS: And I believe Clam Pass Boardwalk
though is little larger to accommodate the tram but I don't know.
MARSHA CRAVENS: No, no, no
HANK JONES: 12' I just checked it.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: In any event... it was
supposed to be no wider than the existing. No wider than the existing. No wider
than the existing.
HANK JONES: The (inaudible) and the tram boardwalk is
12'.
BARRY WILLIAMS: I appreciate
MARSHA CRAVENS: And there is an area where it
widens and narrows also. It is not a uniform width from the beginning to end.
BARRY WILLIAMS: Mr. Chair... you might want to take
comments from the public.
MARSHA CRAVENS: Can Kathy participate here
because Kathy and I do have some slides.
KATHY WORLEY: I was going to be quick... cause I
know you guys are getting (inaudible)
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: I think we've got the whiff
of . (Laughter)
KATHY WORLEY: In 2008 and 2009 I had some
questions that never got answered. The newer presentation of what you all are
seeing is a concept plan... was also delivered I believe... in 2013 to the
Foundation.
BARRY WILLIAMS: Yes.
KATHY WORLEY: And I brought up some questions that
never got answered so I am going to reiterate the questions and maybe somehow
somebody has the answers. Also I apologize... I don't know exactly what the
motion is. I am going to do this kinda... real quick. Starting with the kayak
launch... there is a big clump of sea grass there and what I asked when you put in
the kayak launch what is the shading that is going to occur from this and how
close is it to the sea grass bed? Because as most of you probably know sea grass
and shade... uh uh. That was one question. I still have that. The other question
was with this parking lot... when you add... when you revamp it, was there any
was any consideration to putting in permeable pavement and things, like that... so
you don't have the water runoff with the oil and gas into these waterways.
Another question is when you increase this width of this round-about thingy for
the tram? How much of the vegetation is going to be actually impacted? And
what types of vegetation will be impacted? And why do you need to widen it?
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November 19, 2014
HANK JONES: They did widen it. It was done with
Permeable pavers.
KATHY WORLEY: Okay. This has always been such a
heartburn for me in particular... umm... at one point we were going through the
mangroves and it got moved to going over some mangroves and water. And what
people don't seem to think about when you built something like is, it is not just
12',unless you build from the bridge, which is more expensive. You are going to
have to clear on either side more than 12'. So it is not just the footprint of impact
of the boardwalk unless you go the expensive route and build from the bridge...
and when you are creating a shade structure here that over area of waterways that
has pretty good centric productivity in it... and that would go away. You can
save a lot of important environmental areas,mangroves and also the centric
through here.
MARY BILLS: So... that's not there now?
KATHY WORLEY: No. All of this is proposed. The
other question we had is.... if you are going to build a boardwalk through here,
you got a really high density of Gopher Tortoises in that area. Which is another
threaten species. There are currently very few people that are accepting Gopher
Tortoises because you have to relocate them. Most of the places that are
accepting... we are not accepting anymore. We are at our capacity of caring in
our area, we have scrubs. There is very little scrub areas in this County. So
basically we have a lot of questions on this. I still haven't gotten any answers.
I've thought about many answers and in order to take a position on this or
anything I think ... it would behoove you to ask the questions so we get answers.
Thank you.
MARSHA CRAVENS: I just want to point out
I like the idea of the floating kayak launch. I like the idea of being handicap
accessible,but that makes it to be a larger dock then if it weren't. There is a very
large areas of oysters along the shoreline here. I've taken lots of photos of them.
I think it's wonderful that we still have oyster population here because we have
lost a lot of other areas of the system. I would hate to see us lose those oysters. I
don't know how much of an impact a mobi mat would have, but I expect less than
the dock. Basically,the Sierra Club is requesting and recommending... not that
improvements... we're not requesting improvements not be done but we are
requesting and recommending that the conceptual basis needs to be rethought,that
it be consistent with the location of it being a natural resources protection area,
and an undeveloped segment of a coastal barrier resource system... we don't have
very many of those left... and it serves a lot of natural functions, a natural fishing
habitat with all kind of water life... all kinds of fish... and all kinds of birds. It
really is a special place.
BARRY WILLIAMS: Can I suggest... you have a list
here. Maybe you want to go through the names.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: That was a good six minutes
Marsha. (Laughter)
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Where are we at?
BARRY WILLIAMS: I think Michael, at the top. Mr.
Seef...
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November 19, 2014
MICHAEL SEEF: First of all,thank you for meeting with
us. I truly appreciate it. Just to give a very brief point of what Marsha and Kathy
had said. I will read you something that Margaret Bishop had as a result of the
meeting with the Pelican Bay Foundation... The overall goal of the project is to
maintain the natural features of the Park, minimize mangroves and native wildlife
disturbance. Well... that's what you've been hearing. I would add to that ...
coastal scrub hammock, which is another ecotone there and any wetlands. What
I distributed to you, is two pages, basically. I think... I'm sorry I did not have an
overhead for everybody... but this grills down on some of the questions about the
distances... and this has to do with the spreading that Barry mentioned and Gary
McAlpin before that. You can see... the 1000 feet between the boardwalk,just a
little south of the boardwalk, because there are a lot of cabanas and beach stuff
over there, down to the start of the washroom and the turn around. Give or take a
few feet here and there... it's less than a quarter of a mile, let's put it that way...
the total beach... to keep in mind is 6/10 of a mile...so this is roughly 2/10th of a
mile... roughly a third... figure that. And then when I turn to the right 1,000 ft.
that goes to Clam Pass. Now,the picture Marsha had on actually... did not show
many people going out that way... but there are in fact... and that is only 1000 ft.
and if you say 500' like we were talking about before...Why not spread North
500 ft.? So, I think the boardwalk you've been hearing... is problematic and
makes a lot of noise. If you go to the next page. Any questions on this? If you
go to the next page you will see the washrooms in more detail. It's about 10,000
sq. ft. and umm... and check me if I'm wrong... so Bluebill and Vanderbilt is
about 10,000 sq. ft. ... roughly.
BARRY WILLIAMS: I don't know.
MICHAEL SEEF: Close to that...
BARRY WILLIAMS: I can tell you... this reflects a
drawing that was done prior to our discussion with the Pelican Bay Foundation.
What we have committed to them, was is to take a lot of this out. So this is not a
fair depiction of what we are looking to do... but
MICHAEL SEEF: Okay... even if it's 8,000 sq. ft.
Whatever. The problem is what you don't see on here, is was eluded to on one of
the previous slides was the height of this thing. Because it is in a FEMA VE
zone, it's in a flood zone, so you have to go a minimum 14' above the flood zone
level. Before you start building... you have 14' and then you have another 20'
above that. You're making a huge thing on what it amounts a very small beach.
How many of you, have walked that beach... A few of you... when you walk
down the beach and think of a 30 foot high structure and you think... 8,000 sq ft.—
10,000 sq ft. You know... It's a monster in that place. We don't need that.
Thank you.
GEORGE FOGG: I am going to speak as a landscape
architect and a park planner. I've been planning parks for about... too long, 56
years now. I write books on the subject and the National Recreation Parks
Association uses them. Basically, I have a different question than the
environmental question... and that is... if you're going to... by the way... the
park works fine right now. It doesn't need spreading... it doesn't need any
adjustments... it doesn't need more toilets... it doesn't need any more concession,
we're working fine. The parking lot is at capacity a few days out of the year. If
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November 19, 2014
you're going to put all this stuff in here, all of it, there's a lot of it. If we are
going to put it in, that means we have to have a lot more use. The only way we
can get more use in here, is to increase the access, which means in fact... then
building a parking structure. There is no other space for an additional parking
lots, there is no other room for anyway to expand the use... the hotel this there
and at capacity. The only reason... the only possible reason for any of this
development, if everything is working good now. And I've been using it now for
25 years now. Every Sunday I go down and I also go down during the week
sometimes. I have never yet seen a problem with it being too crowded or
overused. So, the only conceivable reason for any of this... is to have more use.
And if there is no more capacity for parking, unless we build a parking structure,
then the project is dead. It is of absolutely no value.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: A race to nowhere.
GEORGE FOGG: In fact...it is exactly that. Thank you.
LINDA ROTH: I am a Pelican Bay resident. I think
Marsha and Kathy have spoke pretty much of what I wanted to say. My most
concern is the extra leg going over to the mangroves. One third of it is actually
mangroves, they are very healthy mangroves. There is no need for that whole
thing. I my opinion, there is no need have this extra leg and this drop off point for
people and two shade shelters, I guess, shade structures. There is no problem....
we don't have to transport them on a tramway. They are using the section very
well. Lately there are less people going from here to there. I understand that.
This is absolutely no need for this... destroying the environment... and there is no
need. People are using the stretch from here to there, so why are we constructing
a tramway to transport them here.
SUSAN CALKINS: Susan Calkins... I live on the north
end of the City of Naples. I'm not a Pelican Bay resident. I regularly go to Clam
Pass, however, frequently see George there... my husband, is a guide at Clam
Pass over there a lot. I would second the motion that number one it is rare that is
over capacity... it works well. A lot of us residents and tourist, alike... like to be
able walk a section of beach that isn't people to people to people, like we are in
this room and to put in a tram and a boardwalk to simply carry even more people
down there... I think it is a disservice to not just the residents but a lot of tourists,
who come because it is a very natural place where they want to be. So, I think we
need to consider that aspect of the use of the park, as well.
TOM CRAVENS: Well, I will just reiterate a few things...
I agree with George and Susan both. To increase the density of usage on that park
is doing a real disservice. The quality of the beach experience deteriorates as the
number of user's increases. Secondly, if you go down to Clam Pass Park, during
season, in the afternoon, on a nice day, you will find that there are cars circling
the parking lot waiting to jump on to a free space when it comes available... what
George says is correct. You can't exceed the usage beyond what the maximum
usage is today, without creating a parking structure. It just won't work. That was
a plan but they did away with it.
GAYLENE VASATURO: I am a Naples resident, I live in
the Vineyards and I am a long time frequent user of Clam Pass. And I really
appreciate (inaudible). I agree with those. I would like to submit written
comments if that is acceptable.
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November 19, 2014
BARRY WILLIAMS: Sure. We'll get you an email after
the meeting.
GAYLENE VASATURO: I only ask...what does the
public need... is the question I thought (inaudible). What Clam Pass offers,
which is, a natural undeveloped stretch of beach. There is no other beach in
Naples that offers that... it is unique... and once you start doing this you start
degrading, at the very least, degrading what brings so many of us... residents and
tourists alike to that area... my other comments I'll submit in writing.
JOHN DOMENIE: I'm John Domenie... Good afternoon.
Sorry, I have been a year round resident in Pelican Bay for 27 years. I just
completed serving 12 years on the Board for the Service Division. I hear a lot of
negative comments about Pelican Bay Residents and the roll in creating the Clam
Bay area. I won't go into how the 570 acres were formed and the Covenants.
Here are some of the negatives I have heard:
Pelican Bay has been accused of building a bridge leading to Clam Pass Park
limiting boating access to Seagate. No so. The County built the bridge.
Nor has Pelican Bay objected to further development of the parking area, even a
two story structure.
Pelican Bay has encouraged the use of all the 2 1/2 miles of waterways within
Clam Bay by kayakers and canoers by installing informative markers along the
way. Access to the waterway is granted by the Foundation. And when you look
at the map, you only see about a half mile out of the 2 1/2 miles of waterways that
are available to kayakers.
Pelican Bay has no objections to see better utilization of County property, if such
a demand exists and as long as the nature is not encroached upon... I would ask
has the need for greater need and usage been determined. On an average
weekend, how many cars have been denied entry to the parking lot because it was
filled and do such statistics exist?
Has the hotel has agreed to provide additional tram service to more distant
locations along the beach? If not, will the County foot the bill for the additional
tram service? If further development south were needed. Most beach goers head
north toward Clam Pass to float in the pass or to go fishing on the ebb shoal.
Have you considered developing northward, which was mentioned by somebody
else, instead of to the south? In fact the dredging of beach quality sand from
Clam Pass has generously contributed to enlarging Clam Pass Park by about two
hundred feet over the last twenty years... and looking at a map, you can readily
see the strip of land between the present turnaround of the beach and the City
limits are very narrow and vulnerable to storm surge. Is it wise to invest County
assets in that area?
And finally to save money and mangrove habitat have you considered reducing
the length of the dog leg by bringing it in to the section closer to the present day
turnaround?
And the original plan to the dog leg, going back to 2007, according to Mr.
McAlpin, was in case of an emergency you can get the people off the beach
quicker. The only thing is when you make a dog pass into a Y... and eventually
you end up back to one path... in any case... so that argument fell by the wayside.
The County has a great asset here and should be enjoyed by County residents, but
please consider the impact on the . Thank you very much.
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November 19, 2014
TED RAIA: I'm Ted Raia. I want to thank this Board for
the time and efforts you put in caring tor the parks... you do a remarkable job.
There is no need for me to make comments on what people already have said. I
support everything that has been said... and the only reason we are all here today
is because of Gary McAlpin. (Laughter) (Inaudible)
I went down... Monday and spoke to the court reporters. Terri. Terri said he was
very concerned about the sea grass because he lives in the sea grass and he is very
concern about the dunes because that's where he goes... but he is willing to
relocate. His girlfriend Theresa is living south... and he told Theresa... to put on
your big girl pants and get ready to relocate. (Clapping and Laughter)
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Yeah, we have room in
Immokalee for them. (Laughter) I know that because we have plenty over there
... (Laughter)
TED RAIA: The endangered species. Which the is
very concerned about the sea grass and the dunes because of beach re-
nourishment... and now you speak of the mangroves, only black mangroves speak
because they have papa bulyas and the other ones (inaudible). They said one
thing... if you will... you're going to have to build this path all the way down the
boardwalk... not a bad idea for mangroves... why not put the Y in... test it out
first and see whether the traffic really needs it... because to put a Y in and destroy
all my sisters and brothers, the mangroves, is a waste. So that is my comment on
the mangroves and the (Inaudible) (Clapping and Laughter)
MURDO SMITH: We can't accept this... it is here say.
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: That's true... we can't accept
this...that's here say. (Laughter)
MARY BOLEN: I'm Mary Bolen. I agree with all that has
been said. I have been a Clam Pass Guide for the Conservancy and I am a Pelican
Bay resident. I continue to do walks on the Pelican Bay side. I volunteer for
(inaudible) so this area here... is so special. When people come in to visit us, and
they come from the east coast and say... aw... wonderful, we don't have anything
like this, all we do have is structures... and it is something really special. If you
haven't been there... please go. And we have guided tours by the Conservancy,
in the morning at 9 o'clock, I believe it is. Come and enjoy the walk and find
what you're missing. Thank you.
DICKSON BROWN: I agree with everybody that has been
said. First of all, I disagree with Marsha. I think spending a penny on this, is a
waste of County money. It think you can do much better with your$700,000. I
walk down there regularly. I have never seen the beach overcrowded. The point
about parking, it's obvious... I don't think the people of Seagate would never let
you build a parking structure there. It is a waste of money just because it was
budgeted on some secret arrangement in 2007 doesn't mean you have to spend the
money. Spend the money someplace where it can be productive. I really think it
is a major mistake. 10-15 Years ago, our black mangroves started to die because
of thoughtless action, it was rescued because people figured out how to deal with
it. I am really afraid this will be another example of thoughtless action and we
will have to rescue again.
BONNIE MICHAELS: I live in North Naples and I agree
with everyone. I walk it regularly. I think the one feeling I feel today is... sort of
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November 19, 2014
an anger... that we've been saying this for how many years. We put this whole
project aside because nobody wanted it. We thought it was dead. What has
changed? Everything everyone says, still exists. Now I know the County is big
on let's get the tourist in... let's keep the tourist. Well... some of us also live here
full time. We want the tourists to have a good time. They can still have a good
time. There is lots of beaches here. I think it is everything... incase we're going
to get another tourist person in... you know... beach access... beach access. It
works the way it is. I think those of us that walk it every day can see trams going
back and forth and back and forth that the people and the safety issue... I mean...
now the season has started. I walk there and the trams are coming back and
forth... and you add more trams and more legs... it will be just like a circus and
not the walk you would like. And thanks so much for listening.
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Wasn't it in this area... they were
going to put a fishing pier out there. (Laughter)
BARRY WILLIAMS: Ahaaaaa... (Laughter)
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Didn't you want a pier out there?
(More laughter) Is that what you wanted out there...
BARRY WILLIAMS: That was McAlpin's idea., it wasn't
mine.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Just for clarification. I think
since this was on our agenda, the Executive Summary was presented even though
we can't decide anything, we have heard from a lot the residents, I think what we
have the authority to do... is to make a motion either in support of this Executive
Summary as it is written or... or not and maybe with some prerequisites. So Mr.
Chair I would like to take a stab at something here... and see where it goes.
Vice Chair Brougham moved that Parks and Recreation Board do not approve
the Executive Summary and with a recommendation that before anything goes
forward, that there be prerequisite public information meetings, similar to what
is conducted with PUD submittals so the Board of County Commissioners have
the benefit of the input from all concern parties prior,to spending any money.
Second by Ms. Bills.
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Do we have any questions?
REBECCA GIBSON-LAMEL: I do... who wants this? Is
there another side? I mean ... or is it just...
BARRY WILLIAMS: The Board of County
Commissioners have appropriated funding and did a Workshop in 2004 and
approved this as a concept. The Board of County Commissioners have changed
dramatically since 2004. But it's being driven by the Board of County
Commissioners. This isn't Staff's idea. This is appropriated funds and a project
for us to try to make happen. So this is part of the process of doing that.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: So staff is basically
following direction from the Board to advance this. I am not privy to all prior
meetings of the Board and direction but I would presume they haven't been
informed of all the most recent inputs and comments and so forth. I just think it
needs to be refreshed
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November 19, 2014
BARRY WILLIAMS: It's chicken or egg. It's like this
would come before them very soon and these same comments would be heard by
them... I'm thinking.... you're all going to show up... right?
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: And I'm thinking that to.
And my motion is that Parks and Recreation comments be included in or in
conjunction with this Executive Summary that goes forward.
BARRY WILLIAMS: The only thing I can say... We are
at this point right now because of the outreach we've done with the Pelican Bay
Foundation, The Mangrove Action Group, the Pelican Bay Services Division...
we know there is opposition... we know there are some thoughts about how we
can change this to make this a viable project. And so... we're just trying to get to
that point.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: I understand that. What I
hear is... and I recall going back the infamous bathroom... how much money did
we spend, multiple times going back before the Board the Board of County
Commissioners, who reacted to public input and ultimately changed that. We
spent money, after money, after money in engineering services to redesign that
damn bathroom... and I can kind of see the same thing developing here... I said
it...
MURDO SMITH: I don't know if this is worth anything or
not. I just thought maybe I would throw it out there... because I thought it was a
pretty good idea for the Big Corkscrew Regional Island Park. They have a
website where people can put comments on the project or on Corkscrew. Would
this be feasible thing for people to do?
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Let's vote on this first and then
we can get into that.
BARRY WILLIAMS: Typically, before... we... at Big
Corkscrew we spent money for a Consultant help with our planning and our
public meetings. For us to get started, we have to hire somebody to answers some
of the technical questions that are out there. If there is a desire not to build this...
we'll know in this meeting,the TDC meeting and the Board of County
Commissioners. They say this project is done... were done and we go on to
something else. If they say yes... then we will hire a Consultant to explore these
questions that emerge. I don't have the answer some of the technical questions.
Some of it obviously the Board decided years ago that there was a need to try
expand access here. I don't know what to say other than that.
MURDO SMITH: Also, you said there are some options
that were feasible... still.
BARRY WILLIAMS: We've had some conversations with
the Pelican Bay Foundation. They are ultimately, the folks that have to approve
us doing anything in this area. And I don't want to say that and say... that we
don't listen to the public, obviously that is just as important. But they are the ones
if they don't us give permission, we don't do anything. There have been
conversations about the Y taking a leg out... do we need it... I think that is a valid
thought... Part of the conversations with Pelican Bay Foundation have been on
the size of the facility, we're not looking to replicate Vanderbilt concession
stand... believe me.... we know how that worked. The shade structures are gone.
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November 19, 2014
We are just trying to provide basic amenities to the public in the beach locations
that we manage. That is all we are looking to do.
MURDO SMITH: It doesn't shows different up there... up
on the screen
BARRY WILLIAMS: Well... a lot of the photos... and I
think maybe part of where Phil is going is. I don't know... we've communicated
or attempted to communicate somewhat... there has been a lot of communication
about this project over the years. Old plans have been shown and old feelings, in
terms of with Staff involved and whatnot. I don't think it's a bad idea if we
continue dialogue, we would certainly accept that recommendation... if that is
direction you guys are going.
CHAIR OLESKY: Call for the question? All in favor
signify by saying aye.
CHAIRMAN OLESKY: Oppose, likewise.
Motion carried; 6—0.
BARRY WILLIAMS: Just for clarification... tell me what
you recommended.
VICE CHAIR BROUGHAM: Recommend denial or non-
approval on the Executive Summary as drafted with a recommendation that a
public information meeting with all interested stakeholders be held before we
approve any significant funds are spent.
Naples Grande Easement
Sue Zimmerman reported on research done on the Naples Grande easement. She
identified the area as: a strip of land at the end of Creighton Road where it
intersects Seagate on the north side.
• The easement is owned by the County as a public ROW since 1985.
• This area has never been paved, always been maintained as a grassy area.
• PAR could generate a project to build a pathway to connect Creighton and
Seagate.
• A ROW permit would be required.
• Pulled a GIS Report and there is a water main there.
• NPO would only be involved if Federal Funding was involved.
It was suggested contact be made with the Naples Pathway Coalition and the
Pelican Bay Foundation/Services Division for a possible partnership and to place
on the "To Do List".
Parking Fees
Staff provided a copy of the Fee Schedule to answer a question regarding fees
associated with special events. (See attached)
Barry Williams indicated this was addressed on Page 8 under Special Events - Ski
Party. All questions were addressed.
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November 19, 2014
VIII. Adopt a Park Reports
Vice Chair Brougham will do this report at the next meeting.
Ms. Bills reported visiting East Naples Community Park and received 3 requests:
• Number signs on courts. They are currently using paper ones that get wet.
• Shade for the bleachers. During the summer, it gets real steamy.
• A pathway for wheel chairs, for them to go from one end to the other.
IX. Directors Highlights
Barry Williams reported the Gordon River Greenway is opened.
The southern entrance is closed and will be opened in January.
Jeanine McPherson-Hogle verified the Adopt a Park assignments with the
Advisory Board. This item will be put on the December Agenda for further
discussion.
Staff will offer some suggestions.
Vice Chair Brougham asked for an update on the electrical issues at Fitness
Center in Immokalee.
Jeanine McPherson-Hogle responded the vendor went out to repair and it wasn't
what they expected. The vendor previously submitted a quote but it has not been
repaired. Facilities Management is involved. Staff will give an update at the
December meeting.
X. Informational Items—Read only
XI. Public Comments/Board Member Comments
NEXT MEETING: Regular Meeting: December 17,2014
Location: North Collier Regional Park,Administration Building,
Conference Room A, 15000 Livingston Road is scheduled for 2:00
P.M.
There being no further business for the good of the County,the meeting was
adjourned by order of the Chairman at 5:00 P.M.
COLLIER COUNTY PARKS & CREATION
ADVISORY BOARD /
Chairman Ski Olesky, Chairman
These Minutes were approved by the Committee/Board on /./i'7//� _ , as
presented X or as amended
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