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DSAC Minutes 09/05/2001 RSeptember 5, 2001 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADVISORY COMMITTEE Naples, Florida, September 5, 2001 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Development Services Advisory Committee, In and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 3:37 in REGULAR SESSION at Conference Room E, Horseshoe Drive, Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Thomas Masters, P.E. Dalas D. Disney, AIA Robert L. Duane, AICP Brian E. Jones Thomas R. Peek, P.E. C. Perry Peeples, Esq. Herbert R. Savage, AIA Blair Foley, P.E. Bryan Milk ABSENT: Peter H. Van Arsdale Dino J. Longo Marco Espinar David Correa R. Bruce Anderson, Esq. Page 1 ALSO PRESENT: September 5, 2001 Charles M. Abbott Patrick White Ed Perico John Dunnuck Tom Kuck Denny Baker Ed Riley Page 2 September 5, 2001 (The Proceedings commenced, Mr. Peeples not present:) CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Let's call the meeting to order with the absence of nametags until they come. Let's just go ahead and before we start going off on something and be like Mr. Savage does and announce who we are and then say our piece. MR. SAVAGE: Who -- who are we? Alberto Salvatti Defecto (phonetic) I've changed my name since Elion left. It's Herb Savage. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Moving right along, does anybody have anything they'd like to add to the agenda? MR. PEEK: Oh, Mr. Chairman -- CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Yeah. MR. PEEK: -- Tom Peek. One correction: Under the subcommittee reports, utility code, I wish you'd take me off of the agenda because I'm no longer on that committee, much less being the chairman of it. And I'm not sure who the proper person is to put in that -- in that slot, but surely they can get this agenda straightened out. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: I think I'm the board-- I'm the board liaison. MR. PEEK: All right. Change it to Masters. I'd move the agenda be approved. MR. DISNEY: I'll second that. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Seconded by Dalas Disney. All in favor? (Unanimous response.) CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Any opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Motion carries unanimously. Okay. Moving on to the minutes from the last meeting, anybody have any additions or comments they'd like to make on that? MR. PEEK: I have a comment, Mr. Chairman. Page 3 September 5,2001 CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Yes, Tom. MR. PEEK: Tom Peek, again, to appeal to the staff, see if we could get this reduced to some size of print. We managed one month to get it down to about a 12-point type so that we could read it, and it's still coming back in 24 point. MR. SAVAGE: I really have pleasure reading it, though, Mr. Peek. MR. PEEK: Oh, you do. Maybe this is for your benefit, Mr. Savage. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: I do -- I do believe that the rest of the committee was also in favor of reducing the size of the text to conserve paper, so we'll note that on the minutes. MR. PEEK: Thank you. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Any other comments on the minutes? MR. PEEK: I move the minutes be approved. MR. SAVAGE: Second. (Mr. Peeples entered the room.) CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Seconded by Herb Savage. All in favor? (Unanimous response.) CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Any opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Then it carries unanimously. Okay. We'll move on to staff announcements. John? MR. DUNNUCK: Summary ordinance amendments, I don't think anything has changed since the last -- last time we had a meeting. I think today we, as a follow-up, though, to -- to previous discussion, had promised you we'd bring -- bring to you our plan to handle the new state building code this January 1st and how we're going to implement it from the standpoint of procedurally. With that Page 4 September 5, 2001 I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Perico who I think outlined some stuff that should be in your package with some building-block issues and kind of where we are about streamlining the permit application process. MR. PERICO: What I've done, I've included the building blocks into the package here. What we've got is one on the master permits, okay? What we're allowing now, as of September 1 st, it's already started. If you got any buildings that you want to master for 2001 -- 2002, I'm sorry, you can bring them in now. We're going to start running them through the process to help streamline the influx that we're afraid we're going to have come December of all of the permits. Also what I'm trying to do now is work out something with the City of Naples, which we've got one gentleman right now on our list for helping, you know, with the influx of the work. It's pretty -- pretty self-explanatory as far as the master permitting goes. On the building permit applications -- CHAIRMAN MASTERS: One question, Ed. MR. PERICO: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: So does this mean that every master permit that currently is out there you're going to have to re-review? MR. PERICO: Yeah. To the new code. Everything is going to have to be redesigned for the new codes. But we're starting to take them in as of September 1 st. So that gives you, like, four months to get everything in before -- before the 1st of the year. We've already got -- DiVosta's already got theirs in. They -- they jumped right on it, so that gives you an idea. And what they -- what we're asking you to do, if you do come in with a - a bunch of permits at one time, put them in the sequence that you're going to need them -- don't just give us a bunch of permits -- so we can review them, you know, on that basis. If you come in with a hundred permits and we pull a hundred for them, you're going Page 5 September 5,2001 to need naturally the other one first. So just put them in a series that you're going to be building them in, and that will help us to streamline too. Getting back with the City of Naples, going to work with them to try to get plan reviewers to give us a hand if, in fact, we need it because I don't see with -- them getting a big influx. You know, John and I have discussed this. Bill Taylor already is on board. He's already signed up with the county, you know, so that will be some help there. We also -- there was another building block that was put out on the permit applications where we're expecting to see -- you're going to be seeing another building block coming out which is going to be -- there's going to be a lot of additional stuff that has to be put in the packages after January 1. All your applications for sprinklers, life safety will have to -- will be all part of that package. There's a whole list of building codes. If you look at the building code itself, it will address it. But that's what we're going to be sending out is copies of what's actually coming out of the amend -- of the new code. The other building block that we had put out was on the shell buildings. Since the other day when it went out, we replaced it. It will be coming out. It will be on the Web probably tomorrow. But what we had said, that there will be no tenant build-outs until the shell was actually complete. What we're allowing is the contractor of record, the GC that is building the shell, to go ahead. And if he want -- has the tenant, some of the tenant build-outs, to proceed with the tenant build-outs, as long as it's the same contractor. We're running into a lot of problems with the fire department and verifying. We will verify. We've lost code -- total control. People are coming in here looking for COs. The shell isn't complete. You know, we -- we -- we -- you know, we can't help it. You know, we try to, you know, Page 6 September 5, 2001 work along with everybody, but it got-- it got out of hand. So -- and -- and really the shell permit, if you -- you know, the -- the idea of it is to help you get the building out of the ground prior to waiting for tenants. You can't go one step further, and it-- it's got out of hand. So we had to kind of reel it in. You know, that's where we stand at this point. You know, any questions you need, let me now. MR. SAVAGE: Question on that: Herb Savage. You-- when you talk about a shell building, you're talking a multiple occupancy, and they're building the shell to lease out or sell out -- MR. PERICO: Right. MR. SAVAGE: -- and-- MR. PERICO: In a -- in a lot of cases, Herb, they don't know who their tenants are. MR. SAVAGE: Right. MR. PERICO: But by allowing them to come in for a shell permit -- say if all -- you said, you know, you've got a 50,000-square- foot building. MR. SAVAGE: Right. MR. PERICO: You know what the -- the building itself, the footprint of the building, is going to be. By the time you get that, you can have four walls, a roof, and a dirt floor. You get a good jump on a building by doing this while you're still waiting on who your tenants are going to be. MR. SAVAGE: What percentage of your permitting is a shell building? I don't -- I-- MR. PERICO: It's not -- it's not that bad when you get into the big strip stores. And Granada shops, for example, was one of the ones I brought this to a head. It was tough, one like that. I mean, the fire districts and us, we were issuing temporary COs here. The left hand didn't know what the right was doing anymore. And it really did get out of hand, so we had to reel it back in. Page 7 September 5, 2001 MR. SAVAGE: This may not be the time to discuss it because we -- I mentioned it in the architects' meeting the other day. And I says, "We don't seem to find that the fire code and the building code talk the same language." And then they offered to me today that the nine -- 2001 building permit for the State of Florida is going to do that. Do you both agree that -- MR. RILEY: Yes. MR. PERICO: Yes. MR. SAVAGE: I'm impressed. MR. PERICO: We're moving in the right direction. It's taken a lot of work. MR. PEEK: Question: Tom Peek. Ed, just for general information, the -- the building blocks, what's the distribution of those and through what method? MR. PERICO: Well, we did -- we used to send them out to the different organizations. They're on web now. You can pull up the building blocks. There's probably at least a hundred building blocks on the web right now which we -- we update them on a regular basis. They used to be on a mailing list. The mailing list kept getting smaller and smaller, and the web turned out to be a source now so ... MR. PEEK: Okay. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Thank you, Ed. MR. PERICO: Okay. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: John, anything else? MR. DUNNUCK: No. I think the highlight -- you know, a little bit of about what Ed said is, we're trying to work with -- and I don't know if it's ever been done before in a local agreement with the City of Naples to help us out through this process. It's my understanding that the city, for the most part, is built out and using their resource. So we're looking forward to doing that and -- and then just having the cooperation and being a little bit organized. We understand that, Page 8 September 5, 2001 you know, we're still going to get the last-minute permits coming in because of the fiscal impact of the new state building codes. But we're going to do it as reasonably as we can. And I know Ed's gearing up his people to be able to handle it. One of the things that was -- that's mentioned here that I discussed previously is the -- getting rid of the simultaneous reviews between the SDPs and the building review permits. I'm still committed to doing that and moving forward and will probably be making the official announcement to the development community within the next couple days. We've reviewed it. And from our planning staff perspective and from the building department, it's just not making sense. It's really slowing the process, actually, down because we're having to go back and do second, third reviews, especially when it gets into the architectural review process. And I think if we're committing to -- to doing a turnaround time of 10 to 12 days with the building permit, then I think it should be a nonissue, in my opinion. And I think we're even looking at ways that we're going to be able to beat that 12-day turnaround in a lot of respects. MR. SAVAGE: Mr. Savage. You mean to tell me that the City of Naples council and the county of Collier commissioners all agree that they work with each other in those departments? MR. PERICO: Well, I'll go one further. We just had a meeting yesterday, a 4 1/2-hour meeting. We're putting in the administrative ordinance together that -- we're all going to be having the same administrative ordinance. So we're all -- we're all doing the same thing. MR. SAVAGE: Excellent. MR. PERICO: Product approvals, the data bank will be in the City of Naples because they've already got one set up. We're going to all feed off the data bank, as well as product approvals. We get Page 9 September 5,2001 them in, we'll give it to the city and all learn. And we'll be all reading off the same list, so there's not a lot of duplication being done throughout the cities (sic) and the county. MR. SAVAGE: And you mean the fire department is going to be working like this as well? MR. PERICO: Why not? MR. SAVAGE: That's wonderful. I can't take this. Elizabeth, this is a big one. You know, seriously, this is a magnificent step, and I compliment everybody doing it. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: With the simultaneous reviews ended, there are just going to be independent reviews is the direction that we're going now. But they can still occur simultaneously, or will we have to get the SDP and then go -- MR. DUNNUCK: You'll have to get the SDP and then get the building permit. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: So we'll have to get the SDP approval time into the realm that it should be in as well. MR. DUNNUCK: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. MR. DUNNUCK: And I think that's what we're bringing back to you next month. So, you know, we'll -- we'll establish those guidelines by next month. But I think since we've pretty much established the building side of it, I think we can move forward with it. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: So we've kind of identified the problem as getting the SDPs through the process? MR. DUNNUCK: Yes. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Okay. With-- with that, that gets to our staff announcements. We don't have any old business to speak of. I'll move on to subcommittee reports, and -- MR. DUANE: Nothing to report. Page 10 September 5, 2001 CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Nothing on land development. Dino's not here, so we can't have an update on all of that. On the construction code, does anybody else -- did you have a meeting last month? MR. PERICO: (Shook head) CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Huh -uh? Okay. And utility code did meet last month, and Jim Mudd has bas -- basically put forward that he would like to see the utility code completely reconfigured or rewritten. And he set himself a time frame to do that by the end of this month. At the last meet -- the utility code meeting Jim McGee, who -- who was basically hired to accomplish that task, showed up with a brand new utility code pretty heavily based upon Bonita Springs' utility code and set it on the table and said, "Are you ready to approve it?" And obviously that didn't occur. And it was determined that that probably would not be a one- one process either to approve, that it would have to go in front of peer review and -- and several processes before being reviewed. And last we heard, he was going to go back to Jim Mudd and try to determine whether they wanted to just combine the ordinance which has now been spread out through three revisions and not rewrite any of it or whether they want to do a total rewrite which will take more time. And so at the time they were talking about having a meeting, actually tomorrow, to jump into that process. I haven't heard anything about that, and neither has Tom. So apparently they're going for the longer-term approach, and I will keep you appraised (sic) at the next meeting. But it is a step in the new direction. And the new rewrite had a lot of merit in it, but it was a lot of new material to try to get into. So that's an update of where that stands. And, again, I think Dino is our primary person from the ad hoc committee on fees, unless you had anything to add on that. Page 11 September 5, 2001 MR. DUNNUCK: No, I don't. I don't think there's been any discussions since the last time. We're meeting with the subcommittee, I want to say, on October 10th and bringing back the regular item following that November. So that's what we established as a time line at the last DSAC meeting, and we're going to meet those time lines. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. We don't have any new business. It's going to be a relatively short meeting, so I'll give you a chance to -- if anybody has any comments on any particular items, I'll throw this on Bob Duane. I'm not sure if he might want to update us a little bit on what's going on with the rural fringe committee or any of those activities or -- or not, but any comments, now's your chance. MR. DUANE: Well, I've been attending the last couple of dozen meetings, and we're making some progress. A lot of work to do over the fall. The draft is was given to the board probably 45 days ago, and we've set up a schedule of the amendments we hope to have reviewed over the next couple of months. The TDR study is one of the things that's slowing down that planning effort, but that's supposed to be completed in the end of October, and that's one of the components of the plan for the fringe. And if you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. There doesn't appear to be any questions. Any other comments? MR. SAVAGE: I'd like to remark about the building department. I call it building department, you know. Last month we had a remark by Dino that you're going to have to have an architect or an engineer on everything. I've inquired about that. I have not read the code myself, the 2001 code -- 22 -- 2002, is it? And I understand it does not require that. Are you-all familiar enough with the new codes? I think we -- I don't want to put hysteria in Page 12 September 5, 2001 MR. PERICO: MR. SAVAGE: MR. PERICO: is required. MR. SAVAGE: everyone's minds, but I've been checking with two or three people about that, and they said that is not actually the case. MR. PERICO: Well, the nineteen -- the '97 building code gave you that exception. MR. SAVAGE: Uh-huh. They took that out. Uh-huh. There are no exceptions, which is telling us that me. a professional, you understand. MR. PERICO' I understand that. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. It is required. MR. PERICO: Yes. MR. SAVAGE: Well, that's -- you know, it's good enough for I just -- I haven't read it, so I'm not that close to it so -- but I'm Barring any other unforeseen comments, I guess we can move to adjourn the meeting. MR. DISNEY: So moved. MR. PEEK: Second. CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Moved by Dalas Disney, seconded by Tom Peek. All in favor? (Unanimous response.) There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 3'55 p.m. Page 13 September 5,2001 DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADVISORY COMMISSION THOMAS MASTERS, P.E., CHAIRMAN TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING, INC., BY BARBARA A. DONOVAN, RMR, CRR Page 14