DSAC Minutes 09/05/2001 RSeptember 5, 2001
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Naples, Florida, September 5, 2001
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Development Services
Advisory Committee, In and for the County of Collier, having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 3:37 in REGULAR
SESSION at Conference Room E, Horseshoe Drive, Naples, Florida,
with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Thomas Masters, P.E.
Dalas D. Disney, AIA
Robert L. Duane, AICP
Brian E. Jones
Thomas R. Peek, P.E.
C. Perry Peeples, Esq.
Herbert R. Savage, AIA
Blair Foley, P.E.
Bryan Milk
ABSENT:
Peter H. Van Arsdale
Dino J. Longo
Marco Espinar
David Correa
R. Bruce Anderson, Esq.
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ALSO PRESENT:
September 5, 2001
Charles M. Abbott
Patrick White
Ed Perico
John Dunnuck
Tom Kuck
Denny Baker
Ed Riley
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September 5, 2001
(The Proceedings commenced, Mr. Peeples not present:)
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Let's call the meeting to order
with the absence of nametags until they come. Let's just go ahead
and before we start going off on something and be like Mr. Savage
does and announce who we are and then say our piece.
MR. SAVAGE: Who -- who are we? Alberto Salvatti Defecto
(phonetic) I've changed my name since Elion left. It's Herb Savage.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Moving right along, does anybody
have anything they'd like to add to the agenda?
MR. PEEK: Oh, Mr. Chairman --
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Yeah.
MR. PEEK: -- Tom Peek. One correction: Under the
subcommittee reports, utility code, I wish you'd take me off of the
agenda because I'm no longer on that committee, much less being the
chairman of it. And I'm not sure who the proper person is to put in
that -- in that slot, but surely they can get this agenda straightened
out.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: I think I'm the board-- I'm the board
liaison.
MR. PEEK: All right. Change it to Masters.
I'd move the agenda be approved.
MR. DISNEY: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Seconded by Dalas Disney.
All in favor?
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Motion carries unanimously.
Okay. Moving on to the minutes from the last meeting, anybody
have any additions or comments they'd like to make on that?
MR. PEEK: I have a comment, Mr. Chairman.
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September 5,2001
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Yes, Tom.
MR. PEEK: Tom Peek, again, to appeal to the staff, see if we
could get this reduced to some size of print. We managed one month
to get it down to about a 12-point type so that we could read it, and
it's still coming back in 24 point.
MR. SAVAGE: I really have pleasure reading it, though,
Mr. Peek.
MR. PEEK: Oh, you do. Maybe this is for your benefit,
Mr. Savage.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: I do -- I do believe that the rest of
the committee was also in favor of reducing the size of the text to
conserve paper, so we'll note that on the minutes. MR. PEEK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Any other comments on the
minutes?
MR. PEEK: I move the minutes be approved.
MR. SAVAGE: Second.
(Mr. Peeples entered the room.)
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Seconded by Herb Savage. All in
favor?
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Then it carries unanimously.
Okay. We'll move on to staff announcements. John?
MR. DUNNUCK: Summary ordinance amendments, I don't
think anything has changed since the last -- last time we had a
meeting. I think today we, as a follow-up, though, to -- to previous
discussion, had promised you we'd bring -- bring to you our plan to
handle the new state building code this January 1st and how we're
going to implement it from the standpoint of procedurally. With that
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September 5, 2001
I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Perico who I think outlined some stuff
that should be in your package with some building-block issues and
kind of where we are about streamlining the permit application
process.
MR. PERICO: What I've done, I've included the building
blocks into the package here. What we've got is one on the master
permits, okay? What we're allowing now, as of September 1 st, it's
already started. If you got any buildings that you want to master for
2001 -- 2002, I'm sorry, you can bring them in now. We're going to
start running them through the process to help streamline the influx
that we're afraid we're going to have come December of all of the
permits. Also what I'm trying to do now is work out something with
the City of Naples, which we've got one gentleman right now on our
list for helping, you know, with the influx of the work.
It's pretty -- pretty self-explanatory as far as the master
permitting goes. On the building permit applications --
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: One question, Ed.
MR. PERICO: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: So does this mean that every master
permit that currently is out there you're going to have to re-review?
MR. PERICO: Yeah. To the new code. Everything is going to
have to be redesigned for the new codes. But we're starting to take
them in as of September 1 st. So that gives you, like, four months to
get everything in before -- before the 1st of the year. We've already
got -- DiVosta's already got theirs in. They -- they jumped right on
it, so that gives you an idea.
And what they -- what we're asking you to do, if you do come
in with a - a bunch of permits at one time, put them in the sequence
that you're going to need them -- don't just give us a bunch of permits
-- so we can review them, you know, on that basis. If you come in
with a hundred permits and we pull a hundred for them, you're going
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September 5,2001
to need naturally the other one first. So just put them in a series that
you're going to be building them in, and that will help us to
streamline too.
Getting back with the City of Naples, going to work with them
to try to get plan reviewers to give us a hand if, in fact, we need it
because I don't see with -- them getting a big influx. You know, John
and I have discussed this. Bill Taylor already is on board. He's
already signed up with the county, you know, so that will be some
help there.
We also -- there was another building block that was put out on
the permit applications where we're expecting to see -- you're going
to be seeing another building block coming out which is going to be
-- there's going to be a lot of additional stuff that has to be put in the
packages after January 1. All your applications for sprinklers, life
safety will have to -- will be all part of that package. There's a whole
list of building codes. If you look at the building code itself, it will
address it. But that's what we're going to be sending out is copies of
what's actually coming out of the amend -- of the new code.
The other building block that we had put out was on the shell
buildings. Since the other day when it went out, we replaced it. It
will be coming out. It will be on the Web probably tomorrow. But
what we had said, that there will be no tenant build-outs until the
shell was actually complete. What we're allowing is the contractor of
record, the GC that is building the shell, to go ahead. And if he want
-- has the tenant, some of the tenant build-outs, to proceed with the
tenant build-outs, as long as it's the same contractor. We're running
into a lot of problems with the fire department and verifying. We
will verify.
We've lost code -- total control. People are coming in here
looking for COs. The shell isn't complete. You know, we -- we --
we -- you know, we can't help it. You know, we try to, you know,
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September 5, 2001
work along with everybody, but it got-- it got out of hand. So --
and -- and really the shell permit, if you -- you know, the -- the idea
of it is to help you get the building out of the ground prior to waiting
for tenants. You can't go one step further, and it-- it's got out of
hand. So we had to kind of reel it in. You know, that's where we
stand at this point. You know, any questions you need, let me now.
MR. SAVAGE: Question on that: Herb Savage. You-- when
you talk about a shell building, you're talking a multiple occupancy,
and they're building the shell to lease out or sell out --
MR. PERICO: Right.
MR. SAVAGE: -- and--
MR. PERICO: In a -- in a lot of cases, Herb, they don't know
who their tenants are.
MR. SAVAGE: Right.
MR. PERICO: But by allowing them to come in for a shell
permit -- say if all -- you said, you know, you've got a 50,000-square-
foot building.
MR. SAVAGE: Right.
MR. PERICO: You know what the -- the building itself, the
footprint of the building, is going to be. By the time you get that, you
can have four walls, a roof, and a dirt floor. You get a good jump on
a building by doing this while you're still waiting on who your
tenants are going to be.
MR. SAVAGE: What percentage of your permitting is a shell
building? I don't -- I--
MR. PERICO: It's not -- it's not that bad when you get into the
big strip stores. And Granada shops, for example, was one of the
ones I brought this to a head. It was tough, one like that. I mean, the
fire districts and us, we were issuing temporary COs here. The left
hand didn't know what the right was doing anymore. And it really
did get out of hand, so we had to reel it back in.
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September 5, 2001
MR. SAVAGE: This may not be the time to discuss it because
we -- I mentioned it in the architects' meeting the other day. And I
says, "We don't seem to find that the fire code and the building code
talk the same language." And then they offered to me today that the
nine -- 2001 building permit for the State of Florida is going to do
that. Do you both agree that --
MR. RILEY: Yes.
MR. PERICO: Yes.
MR. SAVAGE: I'm impressed.
MR. PERICO: We're moving in the right direction. It's taken a
lot of work.
MR. PEEK: Question: Tom Peek. Ed, just for general
information, the -- the building blocks, what's the distribution of
those and through what method?
MR. PERICO: Well, we did -- we used to send them out to the
different organizations. They're on web now. You can pull up the
building blocks. There's probably at least a hundred building blocks
on the web right now which we -- we update them on a regular basis.
They used to be on a mailing list. The mailing list kept getting
smaller and smaller, and the web turned out to be a source now so ...
MR. PEEK: Okay.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Thank you, Ed.
MR. PERICO: Okay.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: John, anything else?
MR. DUNNUCK: No. I think the highlight -- you know, a little
bit of about what Ed said is, we're trying to work with -- and I don't
know if it's ever been done before in a local agreement with the City
of Naples to help us out through this process. It's my understanding
that the city, for the most part, is built out and using their resource.
So we're looking forward to doing that and -- and then just having
the cooperation and being a little bit organized. We understand that,
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September 5, 2001
you know, we're still going to get the last-minute permits coming in
because of the fiscal impact of the new state building codes. But
we're going to do it as reasonably as we can. And I know Ed's
gearing up his people to be able to handle it.
One of the things that was -- that's mentioned here that I
discussed previously is the -- getting rid of the simultaneous reviews
between the SDPs and the building review permits. I'm still
committed to doing that and moving forward and will probably be
making the official announcement to the development community
within the next couple days.
We've reviewed it. And from our planning staff perspective and
from the building department, it's just not making sense. It's really
slowing the process, actually, down because we're having to go back
and do second, third reviews, especially when it gets into the
architectural review process. And I think if we're committing to -- to
doing a turnaround time of 10 to 12 days with the building permit,
then I think it should be a nonissue, in my opinion. And I think we're
even looking at ways that we're going to be able to beat that 12-day
turnaround in a lot of respects.
MR. SAVAGE: Mr. Savage. You mean to tell me that the City
of Naples council and the county of Collier commissioners all agree
that they work with each other in those departments?
MR. PERICO: Well, I'll go one further. We just had a meeting
yesterday, a 4 1/2-hour meeting. We're putting in the administrative
ordinance together that -- we're all going to be having the same
administrative ordinance. So we're all -- we're all doing the same
thing.
MR. SAVAGE: Excellent.
MR. PERICO: Product approvals, the data bank will be in the
City of Naples because they've already got one set up. We're going
to all feed off the data bank, as well as product approvals. We get
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them in, we'll give it to the city and all learn. And we'll be all reading
off the same list, so there's not a lot of duplication being done
throughout the cities (sic) and the county.
MR. SAVAGE: And you mean the fire department is going to
be working like this as well?
MR. PERICO: Why not?
MR. SAVAGE: That's wonderful. I can't take this. Elizabeth,
this is a big one. You know, seriously, this is a magnificent step, and
I compliment everybody doing it.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: With the simultaneous reviews
ended, there are just going to be independent reviews is the direction
that we're going now. But they can still occur simultaneously, or will
we have to get the SDP and then go --
MR. DUNNUCK: You'll have to get the SDP and then get the
building permit.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: So we'll have to get the SDP
approval time into the realm that it should be in as well.
MR. DUNNUCK: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay.
MR. DUNNUCK: And I think that's what we're bringing back
to you next month. So, you know, we'll -- we'll establish those
guidelines by next month. But I think since we've pretty much
established the building side of it, I think we can move forward with
it.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: So we've kind of identified the
problem as getting the SDPs through the process? MR. DUNNUCK: Yes.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Okay. With-- with that, that
gets to our staff announcements. We don't have any old business to
speak of. I'll move on to subcommittee reports, and -- MR. DUANE: Nothing to report.
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CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Nothing on land development.
Dino's not here, so we can't have an update on all of that. On the
construction code, does anybody else -- did you have a meeting last
month?
MR. PERICO: (Shook head)
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Huh -uh? Okay. And utility code
did meet last month, and Jim Mudd has bas -- basically put forward
that he would like to see the utility code completely reconfigured or
rewritten. And he set himself a time frame to do that by the end of
this month.
At the last meet -- the utility code meeting Jim McGee, who --
who was basically hired to accomplish that task, showed up with a
brand new utility code pretty heavily based upon Bonita Springs'
utility code and set it on the table and said, "Are you ready to approve
it?" And obviously that didn't occur.
And it was determined that that probably would not be a one-
one process either to approve, that it would have to go in front of peer
review and -- and several processes before being reviewed. And last
we heard, he was going to go back to Jim Mudd and try to determine
whether they wanted to just combine the ordinance which has now
been spread out through three revisions and not rewrite any of it or
whether they want to do a total rewrite which will take more time.
And so at the time they were talking about having a meeting,
actually tomorrow, to jump into that process. I haven't heard
anything about that, and neither has Tom. So apparently they're
going for the longer-term approach, and I will keep you appraised
(sic) at the next meeting. But it is a step in the new direction. And
the new rewrite had a lot of merit in it, but it was a lot of new
material to try to get into. So that's an update of where that stands.
And, again, I think Dino is our primary person from the ad hoc
committee on fees, unless you had anything to add on that.
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MR. DUNNUCK: No, I don't. I don't think there's been any
discussions since the last time. We're meeting with the
subcommittee, I want to say, on October 10th and bringing back the
regular item following that November. So that's what we established
as a time line at the last DSAC meeting, and we're going to meet
those time lines.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. We don't have any new
business. It's going to be a relatively short meeting, so I'll give you a
chance to -- if anybody has any comments on any particular items, I'll
throw this on Bob Duane. I'm not sure if he might want to update us
a little bit on what's going on with the rural fringe committee or any
of those activities or -- or not, but any comments, now's your chance.
MR. DUANE: Well, I've been attending the last couple of
dozen meetings, and we're making some progress. A lot of work to
do over the fall. The draft is was given to the board probably 45 days
ago, and we've set up a schedule of the amendments we hope to have
reviewed over the next couple of months.
The TDR study is one of the things that's slowing down that
planning effort, but that's supposed to be completed in the end of
October, and that's one of the components of the plan for the fringe.
And if you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to try to answer
them.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. There doesn't appear to be
any questions. Any other comments?
MR. SAVAGE: I'd like to remark about the building
department. I call it building department, you know. Last month we
had a remark by Dino that you're going to have to have an architect
or an engineer on everything. I've inquired about that. I have not
read the code myself, the 2001 code -- 22 -- 2002, is it? And I
understand it does not require that. Are you-all familiar enough with
the new codes? I think we -- I don't want to put hysteria in
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September 5, 2001
MR. PERICO:
MR. SAVAGE:
MR. PERICO:
is required.
MR. SAVAGE:
everyone's minds, but I've been checking with two or three people
about that, and they said that is not actually the case.
MR. PERICO: Well, the nineteen -- the '97 building code gave
you that exception.
MR. SAVAGE: Uh-huh.
They took that out.
Uh-huh.
There are no exceptions, which is telling us that
me.
a professional, you understand.
MR. PERICO' I understand that.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay.
It is required.
MR. PERICO: Yes.
MR. SAVAGE: Well, that's -- you know, it's good enough for
I just -- I haven't read it, so I'm not that close to it so -- but I'm
Barring any other unforeseen
comments, I guess we can move to adjourn the meeting.
MR. DISNEY: So moved.
MR. PEEK: Second.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Moved by Dalas Disney, seconded
by Tom Peek. All in favor?
(Unanimous response.)
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 3'55 p.m.
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DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADVISORY COMMISSION
THOMAS MASTERS, P.E., CHAIRMAN
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT
REPORTING, INC., BY BARBARA A. DONOVAN, RMR, CRR
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