CAC Minutes 08/02/2001 RAugust 2,2001
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Naples, Florida, August 2, 2001
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Coastal
Advisory Committee, in and for the County of Collier, having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 1:30 p.m. In
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Gary Galleberg
Anthony P. Pires, Jr.
David Roellig
John P. Strapponi
Ashley D. Lupo
Robert B. Stakich
James L. Snediker
NOT PRESENT:
Robert Gray
William Kroeschell
ALSO PRESENT:
Roy Anderson, Public Utilities Engineering Department
Harry Huber, Public Utilities Engineering Department
Jon C. Staiger, Ph.D., City of Naples, Natural Resources
Page
jul-27-01 11:34A Collier County Public Wks P.02
NOTICE OF PU BI.IC MEETING
NOTICE IS IIEREBY GIVEN OF A REGULAR MEETING OF TIlE COASTAl.
ADVISORY COMMITTEE AT THE BOARD OF COI.i~iER COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM ON THE THIRD FI,OOR OF THE
IIARMON .~I'IIRNER BUILDING, 3301 TAMIAM! TRAIL EAST. NAPI,ES,
FLORIDA 341 I1 ON AUGUST 02, 2001 AT 1:30 P.M.
AGENDA
1. Roll Call
2. Additions to Agenda
3. Presentation by Humiston & Moore Engineers
llidcaway Beach T-Grt~ins, L-Year Post Construction MonitorinR
Report.
4. Post-Storm Damage Assessment Report
5. Project Status Report
6. Old Business
· Approval of Minutes for May 29, June 07 and June 27, 200'!
· Discussion regarding telecast of meeting on Channel 54.
· Di~ussion regarding Pets on the Beach.
7. New Business
· Discussion rep, arding proposed field trips
· Rcques! for Proposals
a. RFP #01-3271, Professional Engineering Services for Coastal
Zone Managemeut Projects.
b. RFP 001-3272, Production of Beach Compatible Sand.
8. Audience Participation
9. Adjournment
ADDITIONAI,LY, THIS NOTICE ADVISES THAT, IF A PERSON DECIDES TO
APPEAl, ANY DECISION MADE BY THE COASTAL ADVISORY
COMMITTEE. WITH RESPECT TO ANY MA'I'I'ER CONSIDERED AT Tills
MEETING, HE WILL NEED A RECORD OF TIlE PROCEEDINGS AND THAT
FOR SUCH PURPOSE, HE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM
RECORD OF TIlE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES
THE TF. STIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAl, IS TO BE
BASED.
August 2, 2001
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Welcome to the August 3rd (sic),
2001, meeting of the Collier County Coastal Advisory Committee.
I'm Gary Galleberg. I will note for the record that all members are in
attendance today other than Mr. Gray and Mr. Kroeschell. Mr. Anderson, would you like to begin?
MR. ANDERSON: I did get a call this morning from Mr. Gray
who indicated that he was out of town and won't be able to make this
meeting today, but he will certainly be here next time.
The next item is Additions to the Agenda, and this is just a
standard item we thought we would place here in case any board
members -- any committee members, had any items to place on the
agenda or something came up at the last minute. So if there are no
additional items, we'll just continue.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Okay.
MR. ROELLIG: I have --
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Mr. Vice Chairman.
MR. ROELLIG: Yes. It's a -- relates to the FEMA club map. I
understand that the county and the city have gone down this path.
They have a consultant now and so forth. I don't know if that would
be an item that this committee would be involved in. It's a very --
rather complexed technical issue, and -- but it is -- does revolve
around coastal matters. Would this would be something that the
committee would want to get involved in, or should we wait and see
what is assigned to us by the city or the county. I'm just putting this
up for general consideration because what we are talking about is a
significant coastal aspect of that as far as storm surge and wave
heights and all that sort of thing.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Yes. That certainly is an item
which affects -- has a multi-dimension effect, and I would -- if it's
okay,' I would like to suggest that we take that matter under
advisement, and we can check into it and report back at the next
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August 2, 2001
meeting. We'll talk to our attorneys and the various county
departments that are involved with that, and we'll let you know at our
next meeting. We'll get a report back at the next -- September
meeting --
MR. ROELLIG: Very good.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: -- if that's acceptable.
DR. STAIGER: Mr. Chairman, the city building department
and the county development services administration have been
working on that issue, and they have hired an outside'consultant
about a year or so ago, and they have been doing a lot of work. And
the FEMA coordinator for the city probably could come in and give
you a briefing on just where -- where it's going. We have been back
and forth a number of times with FEMA on these maps. And so
there's -- there's a lot of homework that has already been done. You
know, we can get him in -- Bob Devlin to come in and brief you all
on what it's all about because it is a significant insurance problem
with county and city residents.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I think our presentation.
From Mr. Devlin from the city and, perhaps, his counterpart at
the county would be helpful. It's a big issue. We have spent a fair
amount of time receiving information and addressing it on the city
council -- and I know the county commission has. It's something that
I hope everyone in the community is aware of, but we all need to
understand also that it's a federal program and other than legal action
we don't really have a direct influence on the county or the city level,
however a presentation next month might be very helpful.
MR. PIRES: Mr. Chairman, if I may, just a suggestion on that
item-- and I think following up possibly what Mr. Anderson was
thinking -- I don't intend to read his mind -- possibly the staff through
this committee can also advise the committee of their
recommendations as to whether or not it might be an appropriate
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August2,2001
issue for us to participate in because it may not be appropriate, or it
may, actually, as supposed to assist may be slow down efforts. I
think that can be part of the direction to the staff.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I think that can be part of the
presentation. Both the city and county staffs have received direction
from the elected officials to not accept the FEMA proposal, so as Mr.
-- Dr. Staiger said there is a lot of work that has already been done.
Did you have anything else, Mr. -- MR. ROELLIG: No.
MR. ANDERSON: -- Roellig
Item No. 3 is a presentation by Humiston & Moore Engineers on
the Hideaway Beach T-Groins and the Three-Year Post Construction
Monitoring Report. So Ken Humiston from Humiston & Moore is
here to give a brief presentation on that effort as the next item.
Ken, are you all set with your technology there?
MR. HUMISTON: It will be just a second.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay. I might add this presentation that
Ken Humiston is going to give is -- is basically a report that we had
submitted to you last month -- to all the members last month, so it's
something that has already been made available to you. But we can
certainly give you a -- another copy if you need it or whichever. I
just wanted to mention that.
MR. MUDD: Jim Mudd for the record. Sirs, do you have that
up on your monitors up there?
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Yes, we do.
MR. MUDD: Okay.
MR. HUMISTON: Ken Humiston with Humiston & Moore
Engineers. As Roy Anderson said I'm going to talk about the most
recent monitoring report of the T-Groin Project on Marco Island.
That report was handed out at the last meeting. I'm going to go over
a couple of things.
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August 2, 2001
The first thing that I would like to do is spend a couple of
minutes talking about these erosion control structures that we are
calling the T-Groins, what their function is, and how they are
expected to work, and then I will talk about the results of the
monitoring.
The exhibit up there is just a location map to show you where
the project is. As I said, just a couple of words about the function of
these groins. This is a schematic drawing that illustrates in the upper
right-hand comer in plain view what the T-groin looks like. There is
an element that is perpendicular to the shoreline coming down from
the top of the picture. Then there is a shore parallel segment in the
bottom of the picture. And the lower part of this exhibit is a section
view through that shore perpendicular trunk section. What this
shows is that that trunk section roughly approximates a natural bench
profile slope. It's done this way so that sand will be able to pass
across the top of it.
With conventional groins you generally have sand moving in
one direction that will pile up on one side and cause erosion on the
other side. The purpose of this design was to -- once the updrift side
fills up with sand to allow that sand to -- cross over the low-profile
structures so we get a more symmetrical shoreline response and
established beach on both sides of it.
This is essentially the same diagram in the upper right-hand
comer, but the lower part of it shows the shore parallel T-section. I
just put this up in the middle. There is a little notch in it. The
purpose of that is to allow wave energy to come through. If sand
accumulates behind this structure to the point where the dry beach
actually connects to the structure, that beach itself could become a
barrier to sand bypassing the structure. And the notch is to allow
wave energy to knock that down a little bit if that tries to happen.
This is an illustration of a permanent structure, permanent
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August 2, 2001
T-groin structure. This is the shore parallel T-head. I would just like
to mention there are only three of these installations that have been
built in Florida -- or anywhere in the world, for that matter that I
know of-- the one at Marco Island and the one by Gordon Pass. This
illustration is from a permanent installation up on North Captiva
Island that has been there for about three years now. I just wanted to
use that as an example of how we anticipate these things will work
because it is working very well.
The contrast between this and what we have on Marco Island is
that the Marco Island project is built out of temporary materials as a
requirement of the permitting agencies. It's built out of sand-filled
geo textile bags.
The difference is that what you see on your monitor is steel
sheet pile with a rock apron out in front of it. The steel sheet pile is
completely impermeable. So when the sand builds up behind it, it
can't go through the structure, and at the same time the sheet pile can
be cut off at a very precise elevation, so it controls the elevation at
which it will be overtopped by waves and so forth to keep the sand
moving behind it.
In contrast, this is the structure on Marco Island made out of the
geo textile bags. If you look at the way these bags are piled up, they
are -- they are like large pillows once they are filled with sand, but
they are very hard. There are gaps between them and interstitial
spaces at the seams that allows sand to pass through.
Just a couple of more illustrations of the North Captiva project.
This is what it looked like before the installation of the erosion-
control structures. Very similar to what happened on Marco Island,
very rapid erosion rates. Here the erosion rates were as high as 80
feet per year. On Marco Island we actually had one season of
monitoring where we had about 70 feet per year of erosion.
Just another shot of North Captiva. As I mentioned, the
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August 2, 2001
conventional groin has sand building up on one side, and you
typically get down-drift erosion. This is a schematic illustrating what
the project on North Captiva would have looked like with
conventional groins. We opted for the T-groin approach.
This is what it looked like during construction. Construction
was almost complete at this time. You can see the sand already
building up. I want to point out that no sand was brought in. This
was all sand that was accumulated from the natural literal processes.
This is what it looked like about three months after, and six
months after, which is essentially what it looks like today, essentially
three years later.
The Marco Island project, as I mentioned that we are required to
use the temporary structures that came about because we are in the
process of preparing an inlet management plan for the Big Marco
Capri Pass area. That plan had not been adopted by the state at the
time we wanted to move forward with the erosion-control project.
The state agreed to allow the county to move forward with the project
with the stipulation that the structures would be temporary in nature.
Conceptionally this is what the design was to look like with the
first three structures put in at Royal Marco Point. And that is what it
looked like (indicating). From here I can't read the date on it -- I
think you can probably see that on your monitors.
This is what the shoreline looked like in that area prior to putting
the T-groins in (indicating). Now, what you see here is actually a --
sand had been placed in this area. And you can see the ongoing
erosion was eating away at that erosion-control project, and there
have been various times when the sand was not placed there where a
lot of vegetation was lost from a conservation easement in that area.
This is what it looks like now (indicating).
At Sound Point on the west end of Hideaway Beach we put
in two structures; that point of land has been eroding very rapidly. It
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August 2, 2001
was undermining vegetation, as it was in the other area. This is what
it looked like as of the date of that photograph (indicating), which,
again, I can't see here.
To get to the monitoring report, this is -- shows the scope of the
monitoring. We have done surveys on each one of those lines shown
on this diagram. And there are several of these that I would like to
just show you some examples of the results of the surveys of.
First of all, all the survey data on those lines is used to create a
contour map. This is the contour map at Southpoint. I'm showing
this to you because it illustrates the very deep canal where the
contour lines are close together, just 100 feet or so from the shoreline.
Some of the problems down here is that we have that very deep
channel there; that is why in 1991 a more comprehensive beach
restoration project was not done here. We put a -- about 70, 000
yards of sand along this shoreline with the intention of monitoring it
and maintaining it with periodic renourishment because to build a
wider beach would have involved filling in that channel. It would
have taken a tremendous amount of sand to get a relatively narrow
beach, so we are looking for another solution.
And after maintaining that with the sand placement periodically,
we realized that a better approach would be to try and stabilize those
small amounts of nourishment with these structures; that's how we
got to the T-groin project.
This is an illustration of exactly the same area (indicating). It's a
contour of change map. In this case the green areas indicate where
the water got deeper. Green areas are areas of erosion. The red areas
are where it got shallower.
If you recall the previous illustration, the contour map where
that deep channel was, the area of red and yellow there that runs
along the north side of the channel is where sand had been pushed
from the shoaled system into that channel, and the green area on the
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August2,2001
south side is where erosion occurs. So the channel is still migrating
towards Hideaway Beach, which is contributing to this erosion
problem.
This is the area at Royal Marco Point (indicating). Again, we
have the contour change map. There is more green areas here
indicating erosion which indicates that the stabilization of the
structures has not been effective as it has been at Southpoint.
But I would like to point out a couple of things. One is that
Coconut Island, which is the island right in the middle of the inlet,
has been migrating to the south very signficantly over the recent
years. In fact, in 1991 when the nourishment project was done, and
there was not even an erosion problem in this area. So this is a fairly
recent erosion problem that cropped up while we were maintaining
the 1991 beach restoration project.
We replaced the three T-groins in what was the center of the
most severe erosion in this area. Since that time the erosion stress is
expanded to the east. One of the discussions that we've had with the
regulatory agencies is over the possibility that the erosion that you
see to the east of the structures could be a down-drift impact, that the
sand is moving from west to east and the structures are interrupting
that; then it would transfer the erosion problem to the down-drift side.
To some extent that -- that probably is the case, because the
structures have stabilized the area right where they are. If those
structures weren't there, the sand eroded from that area would be
moving to the east. But this is not the classic down-drift impact that
you get with a traditional groin. Because, if you look, there actually
is a little bit of erosion on the west side of these structures as well.
That's an indication that sand from that area is bypassing the
structures the way the structures are allowed to bypass. Yet the
structures are holding enough material there that we are not losing
any more of the conservation easement. Because of that significant
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August 2, 2001
erosion to the east of the structures, we had recommended and are
now, even as we speak, in the process of constructing a fourth
T-groin in this area to the east of the three that are there.
I would also like to point out in the lower left-hand comer of
this you can see there is an area of accretion, which extends beyond
the limit of this exhibit. That area is -- a significant amount of
accretion has occurred there because that is the shadow of Coconut
Island. So part of this problem is that sand that is moving to the east
toward this project is accumulating in the shadow of Coconut Island
and not getting to this area (indicating) where the erosion is
occurring.
I have several exhibits here that show the actual monitoring data
profiles. This first one is on a DNR monument. As you can see in
the upper panel here (indicating), it's a profile that runs from the
northwest comer of Marco Island -- actually out across the island that
is known as Sand Dollar Island. If you look at the profile, you can
see where Sand Dollar Island is. And you can see that there are very
significant changes occurring there.
The second one is a profile that is actually right in the T-groin
field and runs across that channel (indicating). A couple of things
that I wanted to point out here is that the area right up in the T-groin
field in the very right-hand part of the picture has been very stable
since the T-groins were constructed. And no sand has been placed in
that area since the T-groins were constructed.
The other thing this shows is the notch there near the right-hand
side is that channel. You can see the changes on the north side of that
channel in the shoal is encroached on the channel. On the scale of
this drawing it is not as evident, but there is erosion going on in the
south side of that channel as the channel migrates towards the
shoreline causing the erosion problem.
This is the -- I think this is the last one of these sections that I
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August 2, 2001
have here. I included this because it is in the area that's in the
shadow of Coconut Island. You can see on the very right-hand side
of the panel on the bottom the significant accretion of sand that's
occurred there.
One more section that is right in the T-groin field at Royal
Marco Point. What this shows -- if you look at the very right-hand
side of the lower panel, the construction profile did erode back
considerably. Again, this is a pretty small scale to see it, but these
profiles are in the monitoring report that was passed out at the last
meeting. Once that initial readjustment occurred, that profile has
been very stable, even through some periods of time that we did not
place any sand in that area.
This is an illustration of shoreline change in the area of the
T-groins at Southpoint at the west end of Hideaway Beach. What it
shows over on the left-hand side is that the period of time from the
'91 nourishment project until the T-groins were put in in 1996, the
erosion rates were higher on those two monuments than -- on the
right-hand side of this exhibit, where you can see at M-3, I think--
again, I can't see the numbers from here -- I believe it was 2.6 feet per
year. And further to the east about -- ! think that's about 700 feet to
the east of the other monument -- again, we had lower erosion rates.
One of the things that's a little bit tricky about analyzing this
monitoring data is that on a very small scale we have been putting
sand in there periodically and surveying it and trying to determine
what the overall affects are. So both of these periods of times shown
in this exhibit had sands placed in there. In an effort to try and see --
to try to determine what would have occurred had that sand not been
placed in there, we made some adjustments to these numbers.
Again, you can see that the -- at Monument M-3 there was a
significant reduction in the erosion; that's the same as it was before
because no sand has been placed in that area since the T-groins were
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August 2, 2001
placed.
The other area further to the east, sand has been placed in there a
number of times since the T-groins were put in. The erosion rate is
still lower than it was prior to the T-groins, although not as
significantly so. This is why we made the recommendation to
construct an additional T-groin in this area, which was just completed
last week.
Just one final comment. One of the things that we're hoping to
accomplish with these structures is, of course, stabilizing the beach,
which is habitat for nesting sea turtles, and we have coordinated with
Maura Kraus on some of the sea turtle data.
We think it's very interesting. We have had an ongoing debate
with the permitting agencies over the actual meaning of this, but if
you look at this diagram, it does show that there has been an increase
in the nesting density on Hideaway Beach since the T-groins were
put in.
We do know from the physical monitoring data that the beach
has been more stable since they were put in there. There could very
well be a cause-and-effect relationship.
In talking to Maura -- she's here to elaborate on this, if I get
anything wrong -- but there are annual variation in turtle nestings for
a lot of other reasons. One thing that Maura pointed out is that the
lower nesting density last year for the year 2000 -- on the right-hand
side of this -- may be due to the fact that Sand Dollar Island actually
extended across the entrance to Big Marco Pass that obstructed--
would have obstructed the turtles access to this beach.
This year the preliminary data, I believe, there was, as of last
week, about 25 nests in the Hideaway Beach area. This is something
that needs to be monitored much longer to determine if there really is
a cause-and-effect relationship, but it certainly does not seem there
has been any harm to the turtle nesting in this area.
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August 2, 2001
And this is the final exhibit that -- I have included this in here
because it does show how Sand Dollar Island is grown across the
entrance to Big Marco Island Pass channel there, which is actually
broken off, and that is open again this year.
I will be glad to answer any questions.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Does anyone have any questions?
The results from the first three T-groins being installed, I assume,
were significantly worse than what was hoped for or anticipated; is
that right?
MR. HUMISTON: We had hoped that they would be better.
We did put those in with the understanding that the T-groins were put
in to help stabilize, but the management approach was to stabilize
from the T-groins and do periodic nourishment as needed, and it has
been necessary to do additional nourishment.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: And would the differing results
be due to different erosion forces or kind of miscalculating in the
beginning or--
MR. HUMISTON: We-- we believe it's largely due to the
large-scale changes that have been going on in the inlet system,
primary the migration of Coconut Island towards the southwest
because that has opened up -- Capri Pass is much wider now than it
was when the structures were originally put in.
That area to the east of the structures is opened up to exposure to
more wave energy directly out of the northwest, which is where some
of the most severe wave energy comes from. Additionally, the tidal
currents now appear to be impinging more directly on that shoreline.
We believe that the erosion is a result of both the increased wave
energy as well as tidal currents. Some of the things that we are
looking at right now is with the very strong tidal currents in there, we
may be getting some circulation or eddy formations around the ends
of these structures that could be part of the problem.
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August 2, 2001
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: With the additional data you now
have and the results from the three T-groins, is it anticipated that this
fourth groin will stabilize it or-- MR. HUMISTON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: -- or is further work to be
projected?
MR. HUMISTON: That is the purpose to further stabilize it.
Additionally, we did complete the dredging of the entrance to Collier
Bay, and all of that sand has been placed in that area where the severe
erosion was.
MR. SNEDIKER: Do you think another T-groin may be, in the
foreseeable future, required?
MR. HUMISTON: That's possible. But by the same token,
these are temporary structures, and we are monitoring them for a
period of time under the permit after which we will be making
recommendations on what would be a more appropriate way to go.
MR. SNEDIKER: How about the condition of the existing
T-groins, the five that are out there now; the two and the three?
There has been some rolling over the bags. Some of the bags have
deteriorated. A number of the bags have broken up. Are they going
to be repaired while you have got the crews out there now?
MR. HUMISTON: We have no plans to repair those right now.
That is another problem with these temporary structures is they are
nearly as durable at the permanent ones. We have looked at -- we did
some repairs last year on these structures. There are some other
considerations. The wave attenuating capability of these structures is
a function of both the height as well as the crest width. MR. SNEDIKER: Right.
MR. HUMISTON: And when we had the bags roll off the top
of it, it made them a little bit lower but a little bit wider. But at the
same time we identified the loss of sand through the spaces between
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August2,2001
the bags as part of the problem. We went in last year and put some
filtering material on the back side and held that in place with another
row of bags. So the structures actually now are considerably wider
than they were originally designed, and we feel the combination of
the slightly lower elevation, but a wider crest width should make
them as effective as the original design.
MR. SNEDIKER: But there is a variety. In some cases they are
still the original height, but they have not -- the bags have not come
off, and some are wider where the bags -- in some cases the bags
have just broken up and deteriorated and gone, and the sand has fell
out of them.
MR. HUMISTON: Yeah, that's correct. We just don't feel that
it would be economically practical every time a bag is dislodged by a
storm -- which is happening to us a number of times -- to go in there
and mobilize the crew to remove the misplaced bags and to try and
restore the structure and to try and maintain them on an annual basis
at the same configuration as they were originally designed, because
we don't believe functionally there is a large difference between the
way they are now and the way the original design plan showed them.
MR. SNEDIKER: I guess I would have thought when the crews
were out there now, that might be a time to redo that -- to do the
repair work.
MR. HUMISTON: Well, it certainly would be, but, you know,
we were focusing primarily on the additional structures to try and
address the severe erosion in the areas where it was the most
important.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Anything else? Thank you, Mr.
Humiston.
MR. HUBER: If you can just -- if you don't mind, stay there.
And getting into this next item, if you could go through those slides
that you have.
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August 2, 2001
MR. ANDERSON: I just wanted to interject something. Mr.
Chairman, I just wanted to -- the next item on the agenda is a post-
storm damage assessment, and what -- what we wanted to basically
describe to you was the damage -- give you an update of the damage
that had occurred due to the storms -- the storm of last week. And
what we've got here is a -- kind of a three-part presentation.
The first is a -- first of all, we passed out some photographs that
we've taken that illustrates some of the storm damage. And we've
also got Ken Humiston has loaded some photographs that he took,
which are very similar to what we handed out, and we've asked him if
he could walk through the series of photos he's done, which are set up
the same way as your handout. We started in the northern part up in
Vanderbilt area and then were working south.
Then we also have Maura Kraus, who is going to give you an
update about the turtle nesting damage, and then Harry will get into a
report on the magnitude of the damage and some possible estimates.
And so with your indulgence we'll begin that presentation.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Okay. Very good.
MR. ANDERSON: Maybe while they are getting set up, I want
to make a couple of notations, if I could. As you noticed, Harry
Huber is back with us. He's back working with us on a full-time
basis, and we are glad to have him back. So he's -- he'll be at the next
few meetings. And we were also pleased to announce that Ron
Hovell, our new project manager for the beach program, is with us,
and he's helping out already. He started on the 31st of July.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Welcome back, and welcome
starting.
MR. ANDERSON: And the last item that I wanted to mention
is that we have made up the nameplates. We have them here.
However, we have got some additional logistical problems. There
are only five holders, so I think what we are probably going to have
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August 2, 2001
to do is get nine freestanding holders to put up top. And we'll have
those set for next month.
MR. SNEDIKER: Here is a whole bunch of them right now.
MR. ANDERSON: Oh, there are. Okay. Okay. Maybe we can
-- if we -- set those up during the meeting and try not to be too
disruptive.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Well, maybe we'll take a short
break after this.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay. That's fine. Ken, would you like to
proceed with the photos?
MR. HUMISTON: Yes, I think I'm ready now. Here are some
pictures that were taken last week of the effects of the storm that we
experienced. I believe it was the 21 st and 22nd of July.
Starting at the north end of the county, this is Vanderbilt Beach
(indicating). In the upper right-hand side of this, you can see there is
an erosion escarpment there. It's not very pronounced here. It's
probably in the order of a foot to a foot-and-a-half high.
This is in front of the Ritz-Carlton (indicating). Again, there is a
fairly mild erosion scarp. Both of these photographs are in the area
that was nourished with the beach-restoration project.
A little farther to the south in the Pelican Bay Strand, this is in
front of one of the condominiums there (indicating). You can see
there is very pronounced erosion scarp. The erosion has occurred
underneath this walkover. If you look closely at the bottom step of
that walkover, it's a pretty large step down to the beach.
Farther to the south there is a continuous erosion scarp all the
way down to Clam Pass and on down into Naples. I included this
one (indicating) because it shows some of the old relic stumps that
were in this area is an indication the storm uncovered some things
that had not been uncovered before.
One of the other problems is that the erosion ate into the dune.
Page
August 2, 2001
As Maura can attest, there's a number of the -- large number of the
nests in Collier County were washed out by this storm. The ones that
survived in areas like this was where the turtle managed to get up into
the vegetative part of the dune beyond where the erosion scarp
progressed to.
This is the north beach facility at Pelican Bay. This picture was
taken on a very low tide. Somewhere around the middle of the
picture, you can see the high tide line by a little bit of the debris on
the beach, which you can imagine the water up there it doesn't leave a
very wide beach.
I also want to add the storm is taking all of that material away
from the dune in creating that erosion scarp, a lot of that material is
still in the near shore area as an offshore bar. At a high tide, you
would have a trough between the bar and the beach, but it would be
very shallow on that offshore bar. And we would normally expect
that under general wave -- gentle wave climate, a lot of that sand
would move back to the beach. We expect the beach to recover
somewhat in the near future.
This is just south of Clam Pass and the county park (indicating).
This area has the highest erosion scarp as anywhere in the county.
Here, again, you can see the erosion went past one of the boardwalks
coming from the beach facility out there, and the -- that boardwalk is
closed.
And here's a picture with a live human being in it to illustrate the
scale of that scarp; that's on the order of about five feet high. This is
in the Park Shore area, which was recently nourished with the
material hauled in by a truck. There is no erosion scarp here. There
may be a couple of reasons for that. One is that material that was
hauled in was fairly coarse good beach material that you would
expect to hold up better.
The other is there is really no dune here on this beach. It just
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August 2, 2001
goes up to the seawall. The beach berm was an elevation of about
plus 5. It may very well have been overtopped by a lot of the storm
action.
The places in the county where we see the erosion scarp is
where that was a dune that went to a higher elevation of 6 or 7 or
maybe 8 feet. The storm waves ate into that higher elevation creating
a scarp.
This is in front of the Beach Club (indicating). There is an
erosion scarp there, not as high as farther north. And then that is
farther south along Naples Beach. I'm not sure exactly which street
this is at (indicating).
This is just north of Gordon Pass. This is a panorama view
showing the T-groins at Gordon Pass. And on the very left-hand side
of that picture there is a turtle nest, which you can see more clearly
here. This is -- this is an area where there was no beach prior to this
erosion control project, so there was no possibility of nesting in that
area. I think it's significant for two reasons; one, now there is a beach
there. Not only that, this nest did survive that storm provided that it
wasn't overtopped to the extent that it would have been adversely
affected by that.
On Marco Island in the area of the T-groins projects that area
held up very well. It may not have been exposed to as direct wave
action as the open coast where we saw the escarpment formation, but
it did hold up very well, both at -- Royal Marco Point was the
previous one (indicating), and this is at Southpoint.
Farther south of Marco Island this is very close to the south end
of the island looking north. This is in the area of the beach
restoration project in 1991. There is a small erosion scarp there.
This is not really a problem. There is a very wide beach in that area.
That scarp will probably be knocked down by weathering. There is
still a very wide beach in that area.
Page 2o
August 2, 2001
This is just the final photograph (indicating) looking south
toward the segment of breakwater at Caxambas Pass.
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you. Thank you very much, Ken.
Next we would like to ask Maura Krause if she would come up
and give us an overview of the sea turtle nest damage and what--
how the prognosis looks at this point.
MS. KRAUS: Hi, I'm Maura Kraus, Collier County Natural
Resource Department. Before the storm we had 945 sea turtle nests.
After the storm we have 414 left. We lost 56 percent. And the sea
turtle hatching has been real slow because the month of May was
very cool, and the turtles started nesting a little bit later. So when the
storm hit we had most of the nests on the beach. We lost a total of 56
percent, which was a lot.
We did lose a lot of markers but possibly not all the nests. We
mark them with wooden stakes. It's a really hard job to try - to refind
a lost nest. We're trying to locate two of them right now so that the
area can be opened to beach cleaning. We're having a little bit of
difficulty with that, but hopefully by the end of the week we will find
these two areas so we can mark them off.
We did have 35 nests on the new beach -- on the new beach sand
at Park Shore and also in Hideaway Beach. We have 18 left. So we
still have a good number that we can get a good idea with the new
sand -- how those sea turtles are acting with the new sand.
We have success of-- three of the nests on the new sand was
over 90 percent; so it looks pretty good. We are real happy with the
new sand.
Does anyone have any questions?
MR. PIRES: Maura, just a quick question. You mentioned
about the staking or identify stakes are missing from a lot of the nests
are wooden stakes. Is there thought to, perhaps, having one more
permanent -- sort of like a steel rod placed where you stake it out for
Page 21
August 2, 2001
identification later on?
MS. KRAUS: That could be a possibility. Right now we have
them GPSed, and we've never had to locate a nest that has been lost
before, so we're just in a learning process now. We are trying to
navigate back to the areas. We have a pretty good GPS, so we should
be able to get within, you know, 5 or 10 feet of the nest.
MR. ANDERSON: One of the impacts of-- of the storm is that
because of the problem with the turtle nests we are precluded from
going back and doing any restoration of any kind for the beach areas,
so we -- we can't do anything with any mechanical equipment. We
did have manual work. We arranged for some prisoners to work
there this past Saturday to go along and pick up some of the rocks.
But we can't do anything with any mechanical means, and we can't do
any reshaping until the -- actually, until -- we got a letter from our
Community Development Services indicating that the state is saying
that we can't do anything until -- until November 1 st. And I
understand we're supposed to be getting a formal notification from
the DEP to that effect in the very near future; is that correct, Maura?
Did I state that all correctly? MR. KRAUS: Yes.
MR. PIRES: Maura, does that also affect any vehicle-on-the-
beach permits for any other entities such as the hotels and things like
that?
MR. ANDERSON: I can't answer that. Do you have any
clarification on that one, Maura?
MS. KRAUS: Yeah. It depended on where the nests were.
Like the Ritz-Carlton, for instance, they had four nests on their
property at the time the storm hit, and they are all still there. So, you
know, certain areas are allowed to do the beach cleaning and raking.
The Ritz-Carlton is one of them. Clam Pass Beach is not.
MR. PIRES: Thanks, Maura.
Page 22
August 2,2001
MS. KRAUS: Thank you.
MR. STRAPPONI: When we first identified the nests, I
imagine that's a visual identification probably from the disruption
from the sand when the nests first goes in?
MS. KRAUS: Yes. We see the tracks. Then we see the - the
nests.
MR. STRAPPONI: Bear with me.
MS. KRAUS: Sure.
MR. STRAPPONI: You will have to walk me through this. At
that point in time, we go ahead and we stake the nests, and we put
some markers on it. And then imagine with the normal wind and rain
that's probably not visually recognized because it levels out with the
rest of the sand and the tracks are gone. MS. KRAUS: Yes.
MR. STRAPPONI: So the only identification from that point on
would be the stakes and the ribbon? MR. KRAUS: Yes -- yes, sir.
MR. STRAPPONI: And if we lose that, we have marked these
apparently using GPS numbers. The GPS is how accurate?
MR. KRAUS: Supposed to be within a meter.
MR. STRAPPONI: Within a meter.
MS. KRAUS: Yeah.
MR. STRAPPONI: Three feet, approximately. Then why
would we be having difficulty relocating these nests after the markers
have been washed away by the storm?
MS. KRAUS: Because it's a learning process for us too. We
haven't had to locate a nest before, and there's -- you have to take
certain weigh points and-- it's kind of a complicated thing. So we
are just trying to figure it out right now.
MR. STRAPPONI: I'm not --
MS. KRAUS: So there's also -- we lost 531 nests. It didn't --
Page 23
August 2, 2001
MR. STRAPPONI: How many people do we have to find them?
MS. KRAUS: How many people? We have one person that is
responsible for each beach.
MR. STRAPPONI: Okay. Four people. I'm surprised to learn
the GPS has a one-meter accuracy because as a-
MS. KRAUS: That's after it's corrected. So we have to do some
corrections.
MR. STRAPPONI: Okay. So you have to do the correction.
MS. KRAUS: Yes.
MR. STRAPPONI: Is there any way to -- obviously you can't
use a metal detector. But do we have any kind of electronic means of
possibly from noise to identify the nest? MS. KRAUS: No.
MR. STRAPPONI: Strictly GPS?
MS. KRAUS: Strictly GPS. You know, when we GPS we don't
always know exactly where the eggs are. So we hold the GPS over
the nest site. So, you know, it's hard to find the eggs. It's hard to find
the eggs when you see the turtle nesting and she leaves. It's like
finding a needle in a haystack. The area that opens up into the cavity
of the nest is only about that big (indicating).
MR. STRAPPONI: Thank you.
MS. KRAUS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Okay.
MR. ANDERSON: Now, we are putting Harry to work right
away. So, Harry, would you like to give us your report?
MR. HUBER: Okay. As Maura had mentioned and Roy had
mentioned before, this situation with the sea turtle nests is
significantly affecting our beach-cleaning operation. And they say
we are trying to open up as many areas as we can by -- through the
process of trying to relocate the lost nests and remark them because,
you know, if the nests were marked and we can theoretically continue
Page 24
August 2, 2001
our beach-cleaning operation in that area, since we know where the
nests are and we can avoid them.
But right now we have -- the most -- I guess the most serious
situation is down on Marco where we have all the seaweed
accumulated down there which is getting pretty rank at this point. So
we do have an area down there between Residents Beach and South
Seas Condo, which is an area of maybe 4, 000 feet where we have
been given permission to go in there and resume our beach cleaning
because all the nests are still marked in that area. There was none
lost.
So -- but there is also some -- an area of about 3,000 feet up in
Vanderbilt, which there is -- only one nest was lost in that area. We
are going to try and relocate that, so it will be, you know, a
continuing, evolving process where we try to resume the beach
cleaning in as many areas as possible.
But my understanding that -- the stipulation that came down,
you know, not only from our Community Development, but I think
that came from direction from DEP, was that all beach-cleaning
operations would be suspended until September 30th, you know,
unless you had a specific authorizations, just like I was just referring
to in certain areas where the nests have been relocated.
Then I also went through to try to quantify the damage that was
done as far as beach fill goes, you know, the sand that was lost
because of the erosion. And here again, these are real rough figures.
Here's the procedure that I used to make the determination. I
took Vanderbilt Beach, and I just took the whole length of the beach
that was restored back in '96. It was about 7,300 feet, and I took a
beach width of 70 feet and average erosion of 2 feet in depth, which
equates to about 38,000 cubic yards. I went down to Clam Pass, and
I took an area of about 3,000 foot length of beach -- here again, 70
foot wide. Here I took a depth of 4 foot average, which equates to
Page 25
August 2, 2001
31,000 cubic yards. Then for Naples I took the entire length of the
restored beach, which is about 15,600 feet. Here, I just took an
average width of about 50 feet and 2 foot deep, and it comes to 58,
000 yards. And taking all of those and adding them up, it comes 127,
000 cubic yards. So immediately-- theoretically, immediately after
the storm if we were going to consider going in there and restoring
the beach to where it was right before the storm, theoretically that's
what the volume of beach fill that we would have to put back in
there.
As Ken Humiston mentioned before, there is a certain amount of
recovery that happens, maybe within the next couple of weeks or
month, and so that figure could be considerably reduced. But I think
if we were to recommend some kind of action in this regard, first of
all, we want to monitor the recovery, and then we need to -- based on
that monitoring, we need to identify areas where we feel we are going
to recommend we need to place some fill after November 1 st after the
sea turtle season is over and during the next off sea turtle season.
And that in conjunction with our incremental beach maintenance
program where we have planned on an annual basis to place 50,000
cubic yards on the beach. Not only for this purpose but also for that
purpose, we need within the next month or so, identify those areas
where we want to put that 50, 000 cubic yards next year or more if
being necessary. So we are going to be looking at next month's
meeting to try and make those determinations, because we need to get
started to prepare the plans and get those submitted to DEP so they
can give us the authorization by November as to where we will be
placing those materials.
MR. PIRES: Harry, I guess one thought on-- maybe sort of
follow-up on Maura was mentioning part of this -- for next year
recognizing that we are in a learning curve -- the staff is learning on
the nesting -- the nest marking and relocating and finding, it seems to
Page 26
August 2, 2001
be a critical component of the ability to do -- engage in quite a few
activities between May and November including construction
activities, I guess, like, sea control line, beach raking; is there an
opportunity as far as this assessment while you are doing the
measurement of the damage to the beaches as far as sand loss to also
look at boosting the staffing for the nesting aspect to locate the
nesting to be able to engage maybe in more activities between now
and November? Is that possible? Just a thought.
MS. LUPO: Going back to, I guess, the beginning of your
speech, you stated there is a moratorium absent special authorization
until September 30th for beach cleanup because of the turtle nests?
MR. HUBER: Yes, ma'am.
MS. LUPO: Does that coordinate with the end of hatching
season, or is that just an arbitrary date they placed on it?
MR. HUBER: I think the basis of that -- and Maura can confirm
-- the basis, I think -- that's the anticipated time when all the nests
would probably be hatched.
MS. LUPO: So if we haven't found them by September 30th,
then they are deemed destroyed and you can go ahead with your
beach cleanup?
MR. HUBER: Well, I -- we would probably -- that would be
subject to -- at least in my mind, I would want to have confirmation
from DEP that that would be the situation at that point in time.
MS. KRAUS: The September 30th date came from 70 days
after the storm. An average nest hatches between 65 and 70 days;
that's where that September 30th came from.
What we could do is we could look at the nests by DNR
monument and as that 70 or 80 days after that nest should have
hatched, we can mark it off and keep opening up areas; so that's the
only other thing we can do. The state is worried that we have nests
out there that, you know, we might damage. And -- for instance, we
Page 27
August2,2001
have one nest in Pelican Bay that lost most of the sand off of the top.
The eggs were exposed, and a raccoon got it two days later, so we
found that nest. So -- and there are areas where the nests are totally
lost.
MS. LUPO: Doyou have to -- I'm sorry. Do you have to locate
the physical nests, or do you just have to mark it off?. So if you know
the GPS is accurate within a yard, can you mark off a 2 by 2, or do
you actually have to find the eggs?
MS. KRAUS: No. I think we would probably mark off about a
15-foot area.
MS. LUPO: Okay. Once you marked off the 15-foot area,
within that stretch of beach, then you can bring the cleanup crew in at
that point?
MS. KRAUS: We are hoping so.
MR. STRAPPONI: I would just like a clarification. When we
talked about the 56 percent lost, are we talking about the nests were
lost to the storm, destroyed, or we just lost the locations? MS. KRAUS: Both.
MR. STRAPPONI: Both?
MS. KRAUS: Yes, we have no idea.
MR. STRAPPONI: So that 56 percent, a good portion of those
could still be active nests? MS. KRAUS: Yes.
MR. STRAPPONI: We don't know where they are?
MS. KRAUS: Yes.
MR. STRAPPONI: Okay. Thank you.
MS. KRAUS: I do have a copy of this.
MR. PIRES: Thank you, Maura.
MS. LUPO: Well, this happens -- pretty much every summer
when we have this rainy season. What is the average casualty? Is 56
percent normal for this time of year for a storm, or is this unusual?
Page 28
August 2, 2001
MS. KRAUS: This is definitely very unusual. Usually the
storms are later in the season, and the turtles have started nesting very
late this year because of the water temperature. It was -- didn't hit 81
until, like, the third week, I believe, of May, and also the whole
month of May was very cool.
They usually hatch, you know, anywhere between 55 and 65
days. Well, we are not seeing hatching now for 70 days. So we had
an incredible amount of nests that should have already been gone had
we had a normal season before the storm hit. MS. LUPO: Thank you.
MR. SNEDIKER: Harry, last winter we had a major problem in
locating sand. As we -- those of us who were involved know about it
-- and then we got into the trucking and then we got into the bonding
of tile truck drivers -- the trucking companies, et cetera, et cetera.
Just so we can alleviate that problem, it looks like we will be needing
100, 000 yards maybe -- somewhere in that nature of sand -- should
we be taking steps now to find sand sources and meeting the
specifications that we want; the S curve and all we went through
before, plus, obviously, the state DEP approval for that sand?
MR. HUBER: Well, as a matter of fact, if you go down on the
agenda, down there under "New Business, Request For Proposals,"
one of those requests for proposals is for production of beach sand.
And so we've already started the process to do that.
MR. SNEDIKER: Very good. I will wait. I just got the agenda.
I did not see that far.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Any other questions or
comments? Thank you. Why don't we take a short break? Not more
than 5 minutes and get the name plates up, and we will get back to
business.
(A short break was held.)
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Mr. Anderson, why don't we--
Page 29
August 2, 2001
MR. ANDERSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: We can resume. And the --
committee members, why don't we get started again. During the
break a member of the public came to me -- and before we move on
to the next item, they would like to make a comment regarding the
storm damage and turtle nesting.
MR. RATH: Good afternoon. My name is Carson Rath. I'm
the manager of the Ritz-Carlton of Naples. The reason that I asked to
share with you the storm at the Ritz-Carlton, share also the impact the
storm had on the entire county, we at the Ritz-Carlton currently are in
a situation like we haven't been for many years. The storm -- MR. ANDERSON: I'm having trouble hearing.
MR. RATH: I'm sorry. The storm impacted us so badly that our
-- our guests are actually literally checking out. From a career
standpoint of view, we have lost 31 percent of our business since the
storm in comparison to the last three years. So that, of course,
doesn't only affect us immediately, but it also affects the county in a
sense, that we use their tax.
We are very concerned that there was a date out there that this --
that the beach would not be able to be cleaned up and be restored
before November 1. Of, course, off season as you would appreciate,
is already a very difficult time for us because, obviously, we don't
have the same amount of guests coming to town as we did in season,
but the ones we have, we would like to spoil at the beach. We would
like them to have the access to the beach and use the beauty of-- of
the Gulf. Now, 31 percent lost in business, which we can, you know,
track back to not having beach access or at least very limited beach
access for our guests is deteriorating.
Moreover, we are also concerned about the reputation of the
Ritz-Carlton of Naples and the entire county. We have guests
complaining. In fact, this morning I got a letter from a guest and
Page 3o
August 2, 2001
telephone calls to our corporate office -- that the guests have checked
out are taking it further and saying "You didn't tell us about the
storm. You didn't tell us about what the beach looked like, and we
came down to Naples to enjoy ourselves."
The reason I got up here is to ask for your support and to ask
you to put yourselves in our shoes, be concerned that November 1 is,
indeed, the date that we lose business. We lose bed tax. If, indeed,
the date is September 30th, which was mentioned early on, we would
be, of course, very eager to ask you to help us to start right on that
date with cleaning the beach where the Ritz-Carlton is located.
I know my colleague has some other questions, if that would be
okay too.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Sure. To what degree do we --
does the county have authority on dates? Isn't that mandated mostly
from the state?
MR. ANDERSON: Yes, it is, along the parameters of what
Maura had indicated, the -- so we are really -- until September 30th
we really can't move, with -- with the exception of there are some
nests that are confirmed to either be hatched or -- you know, we get
the all clear for certain specific areas. That -- with that exception.
But other than that, no, we don't have any flexibility.
MS. KRAUS: The Ritz-Carlton will be allowed to rake their
beach, you know, after we do the morning monitoring because no
nests in the Ritz-Carlton were lost or unmarked.
MR. RATH: Well, first of all, we are, of course, Maura, are
happy to learn that the three nests didn't get -- have any damage.
Raking is very good and is important. But restoring, bringing the
sand back, is what we are looking for.
MS. KRAUS: The state won't let us do that, not until after sea
turtle nesting season. They don't allow beach renourishment during
turtle season.
Page 31
August2,2001
MR. RATH: You are saying November 1 is the date that you
are referring to? Maybe I misunderstood early on. I understood you
to say that September 30th would be 70 days and, therefore,
September 30th would be the date that we could start restoring the
beach.
MR. SNEDIKER: That's after beach renourishment. That was
beach cleaning, I think she was referring to. Beach renourishment is
a different subject entirely, that I'm sure you know.
MR. RATH: So you are saying it's a DEP issue. Is that what
you are saying?
MR. SNEDIKER: DEP.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: DEP at the state level.
MR. RATH: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Environmental agency but at the
level.
MR. RATH: Right.
MR. ANDERSON: As we indicated we expect a letter-- a letter
state
from the DEP in the next week -- week or so. We'll have the
citations and the legal authority and all of that, so we would be happy
to share that with you, if you give us a call.
MR. RATH: That would be wonderful. Thank you very much.
Okay.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Thank you. Okay. That will then
conclude Item 4. Next on our agenda is Item 5, Project Status
Report.
MR. ANDERSON: Yes. Thank you. Harry -- I have asked
Harry to put together a brief status report on our present projects in
this FY '01, which is going to be coming to a close on October 1 st,
and then to give a brief look ahead in terms of our projects for the
next year of FY '02. Harry.
MR. HUBER: Okay. What was intended here was just to bring
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August 2, 2001
you up to date on projects that we have ongoing right now, actually
under construction or we are doing some studies on. Collier Bay
Entrance Dredging, that -- that has been completed. It was completed
earlier this month. And probably just like we gave to you also on the
beach fill for Park Shore and Hideaway Beach, we'll be preparing a
post-construction report and get it to you as soon as that is finished.
And the project that was sort of related to that, Collier Bay
Entrance Dredging, the additional T-groins that Mr. Humiston
referred to down at Hideaway Beach, the additional one down at
Southpoint has been completed, and the one at Lower Marco Point is
about 80 percent completed. We are anticipating that -- hopefully
that -- that one will also be completed by probably the end of next
week. There again, we will be preparing the post-construction report
on that.
Also Humiston & Moore is working on a feasibility report for
using the offshore shoals for a source of sand for renourishing --
major renourishment of Hideaway Beach, which is the design for that
is included in next year's budget. But he's currently doing the
feasibility report on that; that could be completed here within a week
or so. And we will be distributing that report for you for discussion
at next month's meeting.
And also we're sort of gearing up and preparing the design and
bid documents for implementing the majority of the projects that are .
budgeted for next year. And we're also conducting at this point in
time a joint county-wide monitoring of the beaches in the offshore
area with DEP. DEP is doing all the offshore monitoring, and we are
doing the -- surveying the upland profile of the beaches, and that
should be completed probably by the end of this month. And so --
we -- normally we used to -- we had an annual concert -- we would
do the annual monitoring of all the beach-restoration areas, but this
particular program here where DEP is cost sharing with us to perform
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August 2, 2001
this monitoring this year -- that's how we are accomplishing that this
year.
Now, also Clam Pass dredging is -- my understanding Pelican
Bay Services Division administers that project. I think they are in the
process of trying to start the design and get the plans and bid
documents ready for dredging as soon as possible after the sea turtle
season is over. So -- I think that material dredged out at Clam Pass
will then be placed on the area of Clam Pass park where we had the
significant erosion here.
Now, I will defer to Dr. Staiger for those projects that are
currently going on in the City of Naples.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Before we go to Dr. Staiger, I
have one question. Did you say, Mr. Huber, that next month we will
be receiving a report from Humiston & Moore, a presentation,
regarding the use of offshore sand for Hideaway Beach?
MR. HUBER: Yes. We currently have a project where he's
performing that feasibility study and that will be completed within
about a week, and we will distribute that report and their
recommendations to you for discussion at next month's meetingl
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: That would include, perhaps,
steps that are being taken or safeguards that are being put in place to
avoid the problems that Naples experienced in the last few years with
rocks on the beach?
MR. HUBER: Yeah. Well, actually, this is just determining
whether it's feasible to use those particular areas for a sand source.
They have already -- they have met with DEP in Tallahassee, and we
have met with Rookery Bay, so after they complete this feasibility
study, then there'll be a number of other steps to go out there and
actually make further tests to determine whether it is, in fact, beach-
compatible material. So it's a long ways to go before we would
actually -- and then we would ultimately have to get a permit to use
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August 2, 2001
that particular sand, so this is just the first step in a long process.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Okay. Well, we appreciate that.
Then given the experience that the city and county has had in the last
few years, I'm sure everybody will be interested in knowing what
additional safeguards are in place this time around.
MR. PIRES: Mr. Chairman, if I may, just one question to
Harry, if possible?
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Sure.
MR. PIRES: I think in the packet that I received was the
Hideaway Beach Marco Island April 2001 incremental maintenance
post-construction report. Is that a proper discussion for today under
this presentation for Harry, I guess?
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG:
MR. ANDERSON: Yes.
Sure.
MR. PIRES: I guess just a question. I note in the back -- I'm
not a technical guy -- I have Humiston and you-guys -- but it has
examples of beach profile of the design versus the place. And I guess
from the standpoint of the agencies do these reports go to the
agencies and then they analyze it to ensure that the permit conditions
are being complied with? And I guess the question is, it seems like
the sloping is substantially different as far as the fill being placed as
opposed to the design fill. And I don't know if that would have an
effect on the agencies' review of future permit applications.
MR. SNEDIKER: Harry, do we have an extra copy of that--
another copy?
MR. HUBER: I can get you one.
MR. SNEDIKER: I guess we need a few, yeah.
MR. HUBER: Okay. We'll get that.
MR. HUMISTON: Ken Humiston of Humiston & Moore. We
do send that information to the agencies, and the profiles that are sent
up there for the permit approval are to estimate the quantity. The
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August2,2001
technical staff up there recognize that when you're placing material
on kind of a slow process by bringing it in by trucks that the profile
may not look exactly like the lines and grades of the design. We are
really more interested in the quantity of the material. The permit
always specifies that it's approximate anyway. So there will not be --
I don't anticipate there's going to be any regulatory problems with
that.
MR. PIRES: Okay. So the sloping appears to be within
parameters of the agency review and the permit criteria; right? MR. HUMISTON: Right.
MR. ROELLIG: I can't remember-- excuse me -- when were
the surveys done for the -- there were four surveys?
MR. HUMISTON: I don't remember the exact dates. I believe
the surveys before were done within a week or two of when the sand
was placed there.
MR. ROELLIG: So those were actually design surveys -- the
side profiles were the actuals of when the project started? MR. HUMISTON: Right.
MR. PIRES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Any other questions or
comments? Dr. Staiger.
DR. STAIGER: Okay. We have a number of things underway
in the City of Naples. We do have progress on some things, which is
kind of pleasant. The Doctor's Pass dredging project is a tad
troublesome. The contractor had engaged a local marine contractor
to do the rock-removal portion of it that they had not been able to do
themselves, and the -- they then ordered that local contractor to stop
working. And we are going to be taking a resolution to city council.
For the next meeting, which is August 15th, to declare the
contractor in default. And we have already notified the performance
bond company that they are probably going to have to take the
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August 2, 2001
project over to get it finished.
The contractor has -- the contractor that's doing the project,
United Contractors and Engineers, from the Fort Lauderdale area,
they are hard to get a hold of and kind of hiding out in the Bahamas.
And so we don't know for sure what, if any, reconciliation there's
going to be on this thing at this point. They may come back with
some kind of a -- of an idea as to how to do it without losing their
bond, but they may or may not. At any rate, we need to get the rock
removed from the -- from the inlet, and we are going to be pressuring
the bonding company to get somebody to do that.
There really isn't enough money left in the project right now to
-- to pay for that; that's one of the problems. They -- they racked up
some rather substantial bills with local businesses that the city has
been paying the bills for them rather than paying the contractor
himself. So we'll see what happens with that one.
MR. SNEDIKER: Jon, is this the same firm that we had
problems with last winter with not showing up and the barge getting
over here --
DR. STAIGER: Yes. Yes. Yes.
MR. SNEDIKER: -- and the barge grounding out? It had to be
repaired?
DR. STAIGER: Yeah. They had 120 days to finish the project,
and they started at about Day 90. So it's -- they were supposed to be
done on the 8th of December of the year 2000. And so there's a
rather significant amount of liquidated damages going on in there too.
But, you know, we will just have to play it by ear. We paid them for
the dredging they did, and they did dredge the sand out of the inlet.
It's basically the rock that remains that we need to get taken out of
there.
We have obtained all of the necessary permits from the state and
the Army Corp of Engineers to do this Parker Sandweb experiment
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August2,2001
on the beach in Olde Naples starting in November, so we will see that
get cranked up and see how that thing works.
For those of you who don't know, it's essentially a field of groins
made out of webbing-like fishnetting, but it's not fishnet; it's much
more substantial. But a series of these things on about -- I think 100-
foot centers for about 1,200 linear feet of beach south of the Naples
Pier, and the installation will go in from the upper beach out into
mean low water or lower low water in that area. So these things will
be three or four hundred feet in length, and they function like a groin.
They interrupt the movement of sand down the beach. And we did an
experiment using that method back in the late 1980s, and it was a
relatively short duration and only a500-foot stretch of beach so that it
was not a particularly conclusive experiment. So we are looking at a
half a mile -- or excuse me, a quarter of a mile of beach, as long as --
many months as we can. It could go in for the entire length of the
nonturtle nesting season, November through April. It could -- could
last that long. At any rate, we have got all the permits for that, which
was quite an accomplishment.
We also have the permit in hand now for sand tightening the
jetty at Gordon Pass, which is a permit Humiston & Moore has
obtained. And that project involves the outer length of the Gordon
Pass jetty reinforcing additional rock and sheet pile and filter-fabric
type of material to prevent the sand that moves north on the north end
of Key Island from going through the jetty into the inlet.
There's a sand transport reversal on Key Island from -- from a
seven or eight hundred or a thousand feet south of the inlet down to
the south, the sand moves down towards Big Marco/Capri Pass. But
in the -- the quarter mile or so area that is just immediately south of
the inlet there is a reversal, and the sand is pushed north, and it tends
to go right through the jetty into the inlet. And the inner third or so
of that jetty or maybe half of it was sand tightened some years back,
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August 2, 2001
but the sand continues to go around so the jetty has a big curve in it
that tends to keep the sand in that area if-- if it's not permeable. So
that is a project that will be undertaken pretty soon. I think the next
step is the design of the actual -- I mean, the repair has been
designed, but the actual contracting I haven't talked to Ken about it.
We do have the permit for that.
The other two projects underway that involve tourist tax dollars
are the restoration of the pavilion at Lowdermilk Park and also the
repair of some City of Naples beach access ends, and the beach
access -- the street-end repairs have been accomplished.
The Lowdermilk Park progress has been designed. I'm in the
process of filling out the permit application, but we have decided we
don't want to do that project because it involves either demolishing or
almost demolishing the entire pavilion at Lowdermilk; that we will
probably hold off on that until next summer. We don't want to end
up with the -- with the concession stand and all of that stuff out of
commission the end-- the end of the season this winter, so we will
probably hold off on that until the Summer of 2000 -- or 2002. But
that -- that project is underway, and I believe'the previous beach
committee was familiar with it. But what we are trying to do
essentially there is -- is bring that thing into compliance with the
Americans with Disabilities Act.
The present structure, the bathrooms are noncompliant. The
kitchen for the concessionaire is too small, and kitchen storage in
some places is accessed through the bathroom. So there is a lot of
problems with just code conformity and ADA compliance. And there
should be a lot of termites; I mean, that's the impression that we have
is the termites are kind of holding it together. So we need -- we need
to get that whole thing rebuilt. It will be built in it footprint. We
are not -- we are making it a little bigger to the north, but otherwise
it's going to be a comparable structure. I can't think of anything else
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August 2, 2001
that we are doing in the city, unless Harry can. MR. ANDERSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Any questions or comments? I
have just one question. As of a few months ago, a similar project to
the Parker Web system had been approved by the state, I think, to run
the test in the Panhandle.
DR. STAIGER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Is that -- that was ahead of our
project at the permitting stage. But is that going to commence on the
ground -- on the shore in November, or is that up and running
already?
DR. STAIGER: No. It's up and running. And it has been up
and running since last winter or earlier this -- it has been running for
a good bit of this year, and it's still in place. The -- there are no turtle
nesting concerns in that -- in that area because it's north of the range;
so that it's been there. And apparently it's working. It's a different
energy -- wave energy climate up there, so we -- have -- we haven't --
I haven't been keeping track of it, but the Parker people have been
watching it rather closely and apparently succeeding.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Are the conditions in the system
itself similar enough that we will be able to perhaps glean some
knowledge from that test?
DR. STAIGER: They have, I think, utilized some -- you know,
they have done some learning from that one just on what -- what they
need to do to make sure the thing doesn't fall apart in a storm. They
had some fairly significant damage to that installation. It's -- it's on
the beach in front of Eglin Air Force Base. I think it's in Destin is
where that project is underway.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Thank you. Any other questions
or comments.
Okay. Now, we move to old business. We have three Items 6,
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August 2, 2001
old business. The first is an action item. Approval of the minutes
from May 29, June 7th, and June 27, 2001. And if there are any
corrections, bring them up now; otherwise, we can entertain a
motion --
MR. STAKICH: I make a motion they be approved.
MR. STRAPPONI: I second.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: All in favor?
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Passes unanimously. Next, my
understanding is that we are being televised as we speak. The next
item on our agenda is discussion regarding the telecast of our
meetings on Channel 54.
MR. ANDERSON: Right. Yes. This was brought up at the last
meeting. It would -- we discussed discussing it at the next meeting,
but I guess it's -- they are here tonight -- this afternoon, so the -- it's
whatever your pleasure is. If you want to have a discussion, or we
want to just --
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: We will take comments. I don't
see much need for a discussion. It's the county's practice to televise
public meetings --
MR. ANDERSON: Sure.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: -- and we have information, I'm
sure, the public is interested in.
MR. PIRES: That was going to be my only comment I found
them, just living in the county, very informative all the various
boards that are being televised. And my attitude and approach, I
think, and the committee as a whole and the staff is, the more the
public is advised and informed of various issues in the community,
the better off the community as a whole is. They are in the
Page
August 2, 2001
community. So I applaud the fact that it's being televised.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I'm sure we all agree. Okay.
Pets on the beach.
MR. ANDERSON: At the last meeting, Mr. Chairman, there
was a question raised as to allowing pets to go on the beach, as was
indicated is being done in Lee County. There is a newspaper article
presented by Jack Strapponi, committee member, to that effect, so it
was agreed that we would look into the history of this and give you a
report back. And this memo is -- is to that end.
Basically just to paraphrase it, we looked into the issue of
allowing the pets on the beaches. I communicated with Marla
Ramsey, who is the Director of Parks and Recreation for the county,
and she indicated that no pets have been allowed on Collier County
beaches historically, although there was a dog park approved for
Veterans Park. I think it was about a year -- a year or so ago.
In 1997, January, there was an action on the Board of County
Commissioners to turn down an ordinance to allow the dogs on
beaches. So there seems to be a, you know -- historically there seems
to have been kind of a -- a negative attitude towards allowing the
dogs on the beach, so -- but if anyone is interested in following this
up further, the contact could be directed to Ms. Ramsey at -- and I
have her telephone number, 353-0404; that really is primarily a
recreation-type issue, as opposed to, you know, a -- as to -- opposed
to an action before the subject of-- you know, that would be taken up
as a subject matter of this committee, I would suggest.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Okay. There has been substantial
turnover in the membership of the County Commission since '97, but
this is one of those issues that sets people off one way or the other.
It's not so much a technical issue. MR. ANDERSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: It would be good to have -- if we
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August 2, 2001
were to do anything at all -- or if it were even appropriate for us to do
anything -- is to have some guidance whether it's in the political ends
or not.
MR. ROELLIG: I think my comment would be, I don't think
that the dogs on the beach would have an adverse impact on the
coastal processes; that we could stipulate that and be off of our
agenda pretty much. It's a -- it's an area that would generally fall
outside of our purview once we stipulate that it would have no impact
on the coastal issues.
MR. ANDERSON: I might add there is a Parks and Recreation
Advisory Board similar to this Coastal Advisory Committee, and the
matter could be referred to them, you know, through Ms. Ramsey; so
I'm sure anyone could, you know, make an inquiry to -- request that
the action be considered before that board, you know, if there is
interest.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Why don't we -- if it's amenable
to everyone handle it that way; that we can as individuals, perhaps,
contact Marsha (sic) Ramsey or even the commissioners themselves.
And if there is some element of interest, we can take a look at it. We
will bring it back again.
MR. ANDERSON: Good.
MR. STRAPPONI: Roy, I just have one question.
MR. ANDERSON: Yes.~
MR. STRAPPONI: The longstanding prohibition of pets on the
beaches, I imagine, that excludes handicap and utility dogs or
animals.
MR. ANDERSON: Yes. I would think so, yes.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: It does -- for sure, as a matter of
city policy.
MR. STRAPPONI: It does?
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: In other words, if you have a
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August 2, 2001
seeing-eye dog, it's allowed on the beach.
If there is nothing else for the moment, at least regarding pets on
the beach, we have a couple of items.
Under Item 7, new business. The first is a discussion regarding
proposed field trips to our various coastal regions.
MR. ANDERSON: Yes. At the last meeting, we had discussed
the possibility of having some field trips in the near future. And we
developed a suggestion -- suggested format which -- which we -- I
believe, we have sent out to everyone. And basically what we are
proposing is that in the next three months -- over the next three
meetings, that those meetings could be held at field locations, one
area being -- the first area being down in the Marco area and the
second meeting being in the Barefoot Beach/Wiggins Pass/Vanderbilt
area, the northern part; the third meeting being in the Naples Park
Shore area.
The concept would be that we could -- we could meet and have
a meeting, say, around' noontime. It could even be a lunch meeting.
We could maybe have lunch, maybe 12 to 12:30 and then go into a
meeting 1 to 1:30, let's say. And then starting at 1:30 -- it would be
in a public location, a pavilion or some central location. And then at
1:30 to 4:30 we could go out in the field and view the beaches and
the area and do that -- you know, basically that would be the format.
Another option would be that we could -- we -- well, certainly
there would be many options, but another possibility would be -- the
one we have suggested here is actually where we will start out at nine
in the morning and go until two in the morning (sic). We would
actually do the fieldwork first and then have a meeting.
Another option would be to start it at noontime and, you know,
have the meeting and then have the field trip in the afternoon, so that
would be one decision that we would want.
I mean, the whole thing is really on the table. If you want to
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August 2, 2001
hold this off for a few more months or -- but we thought it might be
good to give -- to have these in the very -- you know, fairly not-too-
distant future because, you know -- to get everyone familiar with all
the various, you know, beaches in our county, so it's really before you
for consideration.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Any thoughts or comments?
MR. PIRES: Mr. Chairman, I like -- I think the idea is good as
far as having the opportunity for the field trips. I guess my only
comments would be from the standpoint of the parameters of the
conduct of the activity from the Sunshine Law. ! think Mr. Anderson
sort of alluded to that and referenced it to make sure we are operating
well within the parameter of that whenever we engage in this activity.
I'm not sure it will take this extent of time each day, five hours or not;
that might be a little bit much.
I would tend to favor the afternoon just from my own personal
schedule from my thought standpoint.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Thank you.
MR. ROELLIG: The previous committee did this, and basically
I think they spent maybe a couple of hours for the field trip and then
had the meeting afterwards. So -- do you recall, Harry? I don't
remember. It didn't run five hours.
MR. HUBER: No. We just used this as a --
MR. ROELLIG: Right. I understand that.
MR. HUBER: -- as an outside parameter. Yes. Yeah. I
recollect the field observation, yeah, took several -- at least a
minimum of two hours, I think, and then the meeting afterwards.
But, yeah, I think most of the ones that we did we -- I think started
around nine o'clock in the morning, and they were usually over with
by noon.
MR. ROELLIG: Right. Because we generally had a short
agenda, and -- as far as I l~ow, we were well within the Sunshine
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August2,2001
Laws because it was advertised and the public was invited, and we
had some members of the public, I don't remember, five or six or so.
I think the public provided their own transportation, but the
committee was, for the most part, on the city bus or something of that
sort. And, you know, it seemed to work out fine. I think it's a very
valuable thing to do. It's just a matter of whether we want to start
right after Labor Day or what for the convenience of the board.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I think it's a good idea as well,
particularly for all of us as a group to see the various locations. I
think it makes it a lot easier to deal with these issues and more
advantageous. On the Sunshine -- I think we're talking sort of
technical compliance rather than any great danger to the public or
anything, but the county commission just.
Had a meeting earlier this week up in Glades County, and I
know they went to great lengths to go in separate vehicles and all of
that stuff. I would just say that we ought to be sure that we are
complying with Sunshine when we are in the van-- if we're in the
van together-- that's where the trouble logistically could be. If we
are on the beach, we can have a notice of public meeting on the
beach. We would just have to ask, perhaps, the county attorney's
office to give us guidance. Maybe it's just simpler in the end for all
of us to drive there. I mean, we are not talking great distances, and
we all manage to get here. We could probably all manage to get to
two or three different locations. And I think it would be good to start
sooner rather than later at the next meeting.
MR. PIRES: Yeah. I tend to agree with you.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Provide -- provided that we can
clear the logistics -- or we can just have a consenus that we'll get --
we'll get notice of the exact location from the staff and all be
responsible for getting ourselves there, which I personally think is
easier than anything else.
Page 46
August 2, 2001
MR. PIRES: I tend to agree.
MR. ANDERSON: Is there -- seem to be -- is there a preference
for mornings or afternoons? Would you prefer the afternoons over
the mornings, let's say?
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I don't-- unless someone
disagrees, I don't see any reason why we wouldn't just meet at 1:30
wherever the location is, just as we're doing with these meetings.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: We will just have three of them
that aren't in chambers here.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay. We will have a meeting, and then
we will go from there. Sure. Okay.
MR. STRAPPONI: Excuse me. Mr. Chairman, like yourself
and Tony, I'm concerned about violations and compliance with the
Sunshine Law, but I understand we are allowed to consult with staff
and if the staff or the people who are going to bring us these various
locations and show us these projects and process and some of the
impact that the storms have done and some of the issues we are going
to have to pass judgment on, I think it's something that maybe we
should have counsel look at. I don't know how you can get together
as a group and make it totally public.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Well, we can. They -- we can do
that part, because as long as you advertise the meeting, that the
meeting will be held at the Naples Pier, then it's a public meeting.
Indeed, we can all run around in a van together under the Sunshine
Law provided we don't talk about business. However, when you do
that, then, potentially one has to deal with, "What did you talk about?
"and proving a negative and all of that. For all of us -- and in my
case, for sure, it's just not worth the potential grief. MR. PIRES: That's my concern.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: We can -- and I do think the
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August 2, 2001
county attorney might take a few minutes and give us guidance on
this. It doesn't have to be in person but just to relate through the staff,
you know, how we properly notice it and all of that type of thing, and
we can hold our meeting.
MR. SNEDIKER: You just said we all take our own vehicles.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: As long as we drive ourselves to
the location that is advertised and --
MR. SNEDIKER: We have to have a court reporter or have the
minutes -- the appropriate minutes taken.
MR. PIRES: As the Chairman has indicated, I think if the
county attorney's office gives some guidance as to the parameters --
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Yes. There is a way to do it.
There is absolutely for sure a way to do it. We just need to make sure
we are doing it correctly.
MR. SNEDIKER: You do it in your own vehicles.
MR. ANDERSON: I would think that everyone could come in
their own vehicles. We will have the court reporter -- court recorder
at the meeting, and we could -- when we go out in the field, the
public could -- could come -- come along on the bus and the court
reporter can be there. And it would just be a continuation of the
meeting; so, yeah, that would be fine.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: We will plan, then, on the way
you have it listed here September 6th, Marco Island. We will do it at
1:30; however, just as with our normal meetings -- MR. ANDERSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: -- and naturally you will have to
give us all specifics of the location.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Very good.
MR. SNEDIKER: Do we establish a meeting location at this
time so everyone knows or mail that out to us?
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I'd be happy to do that. If Marco
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August 2, 2001
is first-- we'll do that.
MR. SNEDIKER: Nancy Richie. Nancy, what is your
suggestion? You're from the City of Marco Island. MS. RICHIE: Yeah--
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: It would be better if you came to
the mike, please, and stated your name.
MR. SNEDIKER: Nancy is an employee of the City.
MS. RICHIE: Hi. Nancy Richie, City of Marco Island. I do
have a room reserved at Mackle Park for you on September 6th, in
case you were going to decide today, and you can meet there at 1:30
if you want the meeting beforehand and go out to the beach or vice
versa. It doesn't matter what you want to do then.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Well, let's congregate there. It's
all a meeting --
MS. RICHIE: I think it would be easiest --
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: -- under the rules.
MS. RICHIE: Yeah. -- to congregate at -- Mackle Park is easily
located. We can get a map to everybody.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Okay.
MS. RICHIE: 1:30 Mackle Park.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Okay. Very good. Thank you.
Then, of course, we will plan on Barefoot Beach in the vicinity for
October and Naples and Park Shore for November. We will settle
those details in the future.
Okay. The second item that we have under new business, we
have two different requests for proposals.
MR. ANDERSON: Yes. Harry, would you like to start that?
MR. HUBER: Sure. Yeah. These are two of the items that I
referred to before when Mr. Snediker asked the question that in trying
to prepare and gear up for the projects we have got scheduled for next
year.
Page 49
August 2, 2001
The first one, the Professional Engineering Services for Coastal
Zone Management Projects, the intent here is to get a number of
consultants onboard to give us, you know, consulting services
relative to all of our projects that we have scheduled next year and
beyond. And so that -- that particular one I think I mailed out with
the agenda.
Also, I passed out today was the top sheet -- was the
appointment letter for the selection committee and the notice on there
Chairman Galleberg is on that selection committee.
So I believe the projected schedule for that -- you notice in the
RFP that was distributed the receipt of proposals is due -- or due on
August 24th, and then I've projected a contract approval by the Board
of County Commissioners by October 23rd. So if there is any way
that we can shorten that time span, we certainly will, but I think that's
-- from a realistic standpoint, I think that is probably what we are
looking at.
MR. PIRES: Mr. Chairman.
MR. HUBER: And what -- what will occur here, we will
probably select a number of consultants, maybe three -- depends on
how many submit proposals, and then we will get the board -- a board
a contract of those three firms, and we will use those three firms --
like, if we have a specific project we are talking about -- and then we
will get proposals from those three firms to do that work. And then
we will issue -- select one of them, and issue a work order to them
under the fixed-term contract. And I think in the RFP documents, I
think this is for -- I think a two-year period and then we -- with the
option for renewal for additional terms. Any questions on that
particular one?
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Mr. Pires.
MR. PIRES: If I may briefly. Harry, I noticed when Ken
Humiston and Humiston & Moore did their -- again, their Hideaway
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August 2, 2001
Beach, April 2001, Incremental Beach Maintenance and Construction
Report, they noted as a recommendation for the future that in getting
sands from upland sources in the future, it's recommended that beach
fill quantities from future truck hauling from upland sources be based
on the volume capacity of the truck, in lieu of volumes based on a
unit weight to volume ratio. And not having had a chance to review
the bid specs for the beach-compatible sand, do you know if this
recommendation as to how to measure beach fill quantities -- was
that incorporated into these specs?
MR. HUBER: Yeah. Well, I was getting ready to go into that
particular document. We were discussing the engineering surveys.
MR. PIRES: I'm sorry. I thought we were on the beach-
compatible sand. I'm sorry about that. MR. HUBER: Mr. Roellig.
MR. ROELLIG: Yes. The question on the -- if we end up with
these three firms, are these firms available to everybody in the county
government then? They are not just strictly for your utilities
department?
MR. HUBER: No. These three firms will be strictly for coastal
zone management projects; that's what this RFP is for, that we are
going to make a selection of firms to provide services related to
coastal zone management projects. We have a number of fixed-term
engineering contracts for-- for other purposes.
MR. ROELLIG: I see. But this will be for any coastal project?
MR. HUBER: Yes.
MR. ROELLIG: Okay.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I just have one comment, and
that's sort of in the nature of a typo. On the memorandum to Mr.
Olliff concerning the fixed-term professional services, it says in the
second line a five-member selection committee, and then we have six
people listed.
Page
August2,2001
MR. HUBER: The one from the purchasing department is non-
voting.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Oh, non-voting. Okay. I see that
now. And this is in terms of this committee this is simply an
informational item; correct? Mr. Olliff will authorize this, and then
ultimately the board will --
MR. HUBER: Actually, he already has. I did not have the
signed copy, but-- he had to approve that before we distributed the
package.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG:
MR. HUBER: No.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG:
new business.
MR. HUBER: Well--
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG:
conclude --
So no action is required by us?
Very good. That concludes that
Next on the -- oh, it doesn't
MR. HUBER: We have that one more, that other RFP, which is
for beach -- the protection of the beach-compatible sand. And, there
again, your question, Tony, we will be going out with a separate --
this is just for the production of the sand. Okay? Then we will be
going out -- and, in fact, I'm preparing those documents right now for
the transport and the placement of the sand. So I think your question
comes into play during that process, if I'm not mistaken. If you want
to repeat that question.
MR. PIRES: Yes. I guess -- I'm sorry I jumped ahead before,
Harry. I apologize. In the Humiston & Moore Hideaway Beach
Naples 2001 post-construction report, Incremental Beach
Maintenance Report, they made a recommendation that "due to
variability and moisture content of sand from upland sources, which
has a significant effect on the weight to volume ratio, it's
recommended beach-fill quantities from future truck hauling from
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upland sources be based on the volume capacity of the truck, in lieu
of volumes on a unit weight to volume ratio." I didn't know if that
criteria was made part of the specifications for the beach-compatible
sand.
MR. HUBER: Well, there again, that will be part of the
specifications for the upcoming RFP for the transport and placement
of the fill. Like I said, this particular RFP that I distributed to you
today is just for the production at the mine, so then we will have a
separate selection for the contract that -- and transport the material
that is produced-- transport it from that location to the beach and
actually place it on the beach; that's what he's talking about is -- is --
rather than basing the unit cost on a weight, but base it on the volume
of the truck.
MR. PIRES: I guess possibly, though, maybe I misunderstand,
but if we are talking about a certain capacity -- tonnage capacity, I
think, is in the beach-compatible contract, RFP? MR. HUBER: Yes.
MR. PIRES: It indicates, in fact, in here there is a range of, you
know, cubic yard will have depending on 1.9 to 1.29 tons. I guess it
would depend upon the moisture content. MR. HUBER: Yes.
MR. ANDERSON: Would it be significant to be part of the
beach-compatible sand production contract.
MR. HUBER: Of course, the -- we've -- I think it would be
from probably -- you are going to have certain variations either way
you do it. I think we probably would come the closest, would be
more accurate by using the weight, in my estimation. Because if you
try to do by volume, it depends -- if they don't load the truck up to its
full capacity, you know -- if you are going to have to measure that.
Truckload every time -- you know, it's not very practical. And I
think from an accuracy standpoint, I think, even though it might be a
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slight variation in the moisture content and what have you, it's not
going to be enough -- I think that's something that we are going to
have to look at real closely when we finalize these specifications as to
which way we go. But like I say, you will find basing it on the
weight is going to be just as accurate as if you are going to base it on
the volume of the truck.
MR. PIRES: Yeah. I was sort of thinking the same thing as
you. I mean, you have a truck, and is it topped off or leveled off or --
MR. HUBER: But weighing --
MR. PIRES: -- from the standpoint of the volume --
MR. HUBER: Weighing it there is no question as to how much
it weighs, and then base the unit cost on per ton. And then -- I mean,
all -- as far as converting it to cubic yards, as far as how many cubic
yards do you have on the beach, you know, if you have -- if you are
within a certain range -- I think it's going to be close enough as far as
determining what volume we actually placed on the beach. In fact,
we can even survey that after we place it on the beach. But I think
for payment purposes I think we are much better off using a weight
parameter.
MR. PIRES: Easier to track.
MR. HUBER: Right.
MR. PIRES: Thank you. I just wanted to know the basis for the
bid specs and whether or not this was incorporated.
MR. ROELLIG: Well, some as much as 30 percent, would you
be -- would you be testing the sand for moisture so you know how
much cubic yard would weight? There has got to be -- I mean, there
is a way, of course, to test it to find out what the -- what the
correction factor would be, so --
MR. HUBER: Sure, we can do that. Assuming that the sand is
going to be produced in advance of this trucking it to the site, and we
certainly could determine the conversion factor to cubic yards per ton
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prior to transporting it.
MR. ROELLIG: Right.
MR. HUBER: Unless, of course, you know, if you got -- let's
just say when we started hauling it the sand was dry but then halfway
through the -- that operation of the transporting it to the beach, you
had a couple of days where it rained and everything; that is going to
naturally change the moisture consent.
MR. ROELLIG: But generally the moisture content is pretty
easy to determine, so you could do it on a daily basis, if necessary, I
would think. I'm a little uncomfortable with the 30 percent range as
far as, you know, what you end up by buying it by the ton versus by
the yard. I realize it can be sort of a problem, but I think, you know,
the inspectors could see whether or not the trucks were carrying the
proper yardage. It would just seem kind of odd you would pay for so
many tons and so many yards, you know, but ...
MR. HUBER: Either way we are going to -- I don't think we are
going -- based on the proposals we are asking for right now, I think
they are going to be consistent both ways. We will either go one way
or the other --
MR. ROELLIG: Right.
MR. HUBER: -- for both of them.
MR. ANDERSON: One other thing I wanted to point out, Mr.
Chairman, is that the -- we're -- we're adding some language in these
specifications to conduct some bacterial -- bacterialogical testing
because there has been an issue of water quality at the beaches. But
just to -- our indication is that it's not really due to the sand -- because
we have done some testing -- but we think it would be in an
abundance of caution to add some testing requirements to the sand as
part of the other quality criteria for the sand that is supplied at the
beaches. So I just wanted to mention we will be putting that
language into the specification as well.
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August 2, 2001
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Very good.
MR. STRAPPONI: Mr. Chairman.
MR. SNEDIKER: Go ahead.
MR. STRAPPONI: There has been a couple of articles in the
newspaper recently in regards to what Roy just referred to. And the
Department of Engineering supervisor, Mr. Dennis, had made some
comments about the fact that the bacteria count in upland sand that
was placed at two locations appeared to be higher, although he didn't
strictly point his finger at that. I wonder if we would be out of line to
request that Mr. Dennis address this board and give us a briefing as to
what his findings have been and, you know, why he has this position.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I think -- Mr. Dennis, I'm not
familiar with him. Did you say he's on the county staff?. MR. STRAPPONI: Apparently.
DR. STAIGER: He's with the Collier County Public Health
Unit. He's -- he's in charge of environment engineering for the health
unit.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I clearly think that's within our
writ, and it may be -- may be several months if we are going to be
taking our field trips for the next three. I think it would be helpful to
hear from him. And, indeed, with the few months for the data that,
perhaps, will get more definite information from him.
MR. PIRES: And possibly the timing might be appropriate
because our first field trip is down at Marco. This involves
Hideaway Beach, I think, so maybe if we can limit it to just a five-
minute presentation down there.
MR. MUDD: I can help you a little bit. Jim Mudd, for the
record, Public Utilities Administrator. As soon as I saw the article, I
had pollution control go in there and check both places on Park Shore
and down at Barefoot where we put that sand, plus to go back to the
sand pile and do tests, okay. The tests that he took, basically, didn't
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August2,2001
show any elevation of bacterial count in that process. Pretty much
was mundane. So I went back to make sure -- I said, you know, "It
seems a little weird to me that nobody has brought that up yet," so I
had our folks go do that. And part of that request -- our folks do have
the capability to do those, the bacterial counts, in that process. So we
are going to make sure that we head this off-- this public-relations
issue off at the pass before it shows back up in the headline, because
as far as we're concern and what we saw after the fact, there is no
basis for it.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: So the county does ongoing
testing, and in this incident that Mr. Strapponi is referring to is more
-- more or less a false alarm.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. The next issue I'd say in those two, to let
you know, we have been kind of hostages as far as our contracts have
been concerned in the past. It was alluded to earlier. First one for the
indefinite delivery and indefinite quantity for the engineering firms,
so we are looking for multiple firms so we are not stuck with one.
The other issue that you heard Harry allude to is the fact that if we
get a job we're going to go out to those three firms, even though the
bid into the IDIQ, and we are going to ask them to give us an
estimate, okay, so that we can get a better price. So you are not just
stuck with one. "This is what you have got, and this is what you are
going to pay for. And, Oh, by the way, the government estimate is
exactly what you get with 10 percent -- a little added to the process."
I'm not saying that happens all the time, but I have seen it quite a
number of times happen in this county already.
The other issues on the sand is that you are going to get multiple
vendors. Okay. If you take a look at the Jhana contract that we just
ran with the 41,000 cubic yards that we put on the beach, if you take
a look at the transportation and the cost of producing the sand, you'll
find out it breaks out one-third to produce the sand and two-thirds to
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transport.
One of the reasons we wanted to go to multiple vendors is
because you get them at different locations. And if two -- 66 percent
of your cost or thereabouts is going to be for transportation, you
might pay a higher cost to produce the sand at a small quarry that is
closer in but save money on the transportation cost on the end. And
in the long run that particular quarry site -- even though you pay
higher for the sand to be produced, it meets the requirements in the S
curves that Mr. Snediker alluded to earlier. We get a better price.
And then you can go to a cheaper sand production, okay, even further
out. And you are going to get to certain firms can only produce so
much,, and that's what we found out with the Jhana Company of the
kind that we really wanted, they could only produce about a third of
what we needed. But we need the whole 55 -- or excuse me, 50, 000
cubic yards, so we went to a less quality type of sand and -- and that's
what we got on the beach in Park Shore and down at Barefoot.
So I would say having multiple vendors gives you the
opportunity to get that Grade A sand that you want. We'll be able to
test it. We'll be about to get S-test to test it. Yes, it will cost a little
bit different, but you've also got to put in the transportation cost into
that equation to -- to roll it out so that you've got the whole deal and
not just the part to what the sand cost to produce.
So don't hone into the cheapest price. You've got to bring the
transportation element in. And when that is done, then you can ID
the vendor that you want to use first.
MR. STRAPPONI: I think the concern on the transportation is
that if we are paying by weight as opposed to volume, a third of--
two-thirds of the total cost would be substantial.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. We will take a look at that. Your
comments are well taken -- well noticed, and we will get in that
process to make sure that we don't get gypped.
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MR. SNEDIKER: Mr. Chairman, I would like to point out one
thing. As I read this, no member of this committee will have
anything to do with the -- seeing the sand, feeling the sand at all that
is going to be purchased.
Now, last winter just got -- got into just a horrible situation in
trying to determine what sand. It got out of control last year. But I'm
wondering do we want to -- all of us give up that idea of seeing the
sand or knowing exactly what sand is being purchased. Sand is a
very, very delicate issue in this county. Do we want to pass that on to
other people?
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I think that--
MR. SNEDIKER: As I read this, we are passing it on. We will
not know what the sand it.
MR. STRAPPONI: I think, Jim, at a previous meeting that you
may not have attended, offered to bring samples in. This committee
or its predecessor has certainly gotten some bad press in the past, and
that was the reason why I was particularly concerned about the
bacteria content of the sand, in addition to the quality of the sand.
But maybe you want to expand on that. You did offer to bring
samples of that --
MR. MUDD: You are -- you are going to see the sand. You are
going to touch the sand. You are going to see the stats and the test on
the sand--
MR. SNEDIKER: We are?
MR. MUDD: --before we award any contract.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: You are specing it out according
to the specifications that were preferred last time around; correct?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. You will get to go through that whole
process.
MR. SNEDIKER: As I read this, we did not.
MR. MUDD: We are not going down that road. We understand
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that it's a delicate situation, okay. We are not going to put something
-- there has been too many instances where stuff has hit the beach --
MR. SNEDIKER: Right.
MR. MUDD: -- okay, that everyone hasn't -- you really need to
have a lot of people's eyes on target to make sure it's right. MR. SNEDIKER: Thank you.
MR. MUDD: You represent the people. You need to see the
sand, and you will have that opportunity.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Thank you. To the bacteria,
Mr. Strapponi if that, apparently, was something of a false alarm, I
don't know that we should have the gentleman come in or not. How do you feel about that?
MR. STRAPPONI: Should we have a press release as to what
the current status of that is after looking into it? I'm concerned about
the public perception. You know, the committee that preceded this
one had a problem with the rocks on the beach, and now we have got
a deal with that. So I think it's important that we -- the public gets
both point of views in terms of the quality of the sand --
MR. PIRES: Hopefully Eric Staats, who is sitting in the back
from the Naples Daily News, will give. Prominent attention to that in
his news stories -- emphasis, hopefully.
MR. ROELLIG: I have looked at many sources -- beach sand
sources in my career, and I have never run into that problem, except
one time when it turned out that taking sand out of a -- basically an
abandoned pit that the septic tank was being dumped into by the
haulers. I have never run into that problem in any location in the
country, so it will be extraordinarily rare to run the bacteria -- (Mr. Pires exits meeting.)
MR. ROELLIG: -- as long as we keep out the honey zippers, I
don't think that will be a problem.
MR. ANDERSON: Another option, Mr. Chairman, is that we
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could draft, like, a press release for your signature to send into the
local media, if you like.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: That we are against bacteria in
the sand? No. If it turned out a false report, I'm not -- you know,
there were rocks on the beach. There was something to address. If
there isn't -- and we obviously hope there won't be -- and it's good
that the county is taking safeguards and will be monitoring bacteria in
the sand. It would seem at this point there isn't anything to address.
MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, that's right. It was somewhat
speculative on the part of the newspaper, and the -- there wasn't any
-- it was just mentioned as speculation. And then the next day the
tests turned out okay, and the beach never was closed. So, yeah, you
are right; there wasn't any real event that occurred.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Thank you, then. If we are
finished with the RFPs, if there is nothing else, we move on to public
comment, if there is any. If anyone in the public would like to
address us, now is the time.
MR. STRAPPONI: Mr. Chairman, I would like to bring up
some new business. If I may, I had a question. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Sure.
MR. STRAPPONI: I will try and make it brief. Once again, in
the newspaper there has been some articles about the potential to
purchase some beachfront property. The TDC, apparently, is looking
to fund this purchase. My concern is what impact that's going to
have on the CAC's budget and whether or not the CAC will be kept
abreast or get involved in the progress of that potential purchase.
And apparently there is -- the commission is spending -- has put up
the funds for an independent appraisal on the property. And I would
be curious as to when that's done if we can get a copy of it.
MR. MUDD: Back up, Roy. When I -- for the record, Jim
Mudd again. I talked to Leo Ochs about the beachfront property and
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that process as it came along. You have a ten-year plan with certain
things broken out between parks and rec -- in Category A between
parks and rec and what the CAC is going to recommend and use as
that process. I looked at Leo and I said, "Okay, Leo, if you are going
to do this, and I don't have an estimate yet, there are some things that
you need to move on your ten-year plan to make sure that the
reserves are capable." Because, if you remember, the ten-year plan
around 2006, we get real tight around $450, 000 in the reserves
before we get that next-year buildup, and that has everything to do
with the garage -- a second garage that he estimates that could go in.
I said, "If you are thinking about making that purchase, you need
to adjust a little bit." So I'm keeping an eye on what that cost is and
where that process is and what he's going to do with his figures. And
if it impacts into this particular committee's jurisdiction or funds in
that process, then outside of what is in reserve that we know about
right now, then, yeah, we will bring it to your attention. We will
bring the whole issue to your attention so that you know exactly the
full-cost accounting of the entire process.
I have asked him to be very careful and to work within his --
within his range of dollars that he has got in that ten-year plan to
adjust so that he can get to it. If, for instance, there are some things
that he can postpone or push off until 2008, 2009, you will notice
there are great sums of money in that reserve to the tune of eight to
ten million dollars that he can get to without impacting the stuff up
front. So I'm -- I'm asking him to take a look at his projects, his long
term, in order to move things around and orchestrate that a little bit.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: But if that were to come to pass,
would it come out of the same class of TDC funds, or aren't we in our
section or class or something?
MR. MUDD: Sir, I wish-- it's not clean. Category A is not
clean, because it does have some beach-access stuff to it, and that's
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not -- I have not talked to the attorneys exactly what fund it will come
out. But I know Mr. Ochs, who is the -- who's the public services
administrator is the person that is working that acquisition. The only
dollars that he's getting come out of Category A, which we touch.
How that is all going to break down I don't know. But I'm watching
it, okay, because I have the same -- I have the same cautious attitude
that you do. Okay.
There are certain things that need to happen to the beach as far
as restoration is concerned, and how those dollars are divided we
have to do it smartly.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Clearly, we would like to weigh
to it. I'm sure you will bring it to us if there is an impact on the
restoration funds.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. Sure. What we will do -- as an update
on old business, we will just give you the current status of that
process as we go along.
CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Thank you. That could be
something very important. Any of the members have anything else?
If not, we will next meet on September 6th, Marco Island, Special
Field Trip Meeting. With that, this meeting is adjourned.
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 3:45 p.m.
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COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
GARY GALLEBERG, CHAIRMAN
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN
COURT REPORTING, INC., BY EMILY C. UNDERWOOD, RPR.
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