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BCC Minutes 08/01/2001 W (Stormwater Management) August 1, 2001 TRANSCRIPT OF THE STORMW A TER MANAGEMENT WORKSHOP BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS Wednesday, August 1,2001 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:10 a.m. In WORKSHOP SESSION in Building "F" ofthe Government Complex, Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: James D. Carter, Ph.D. Pamela S. Mac'Kie Jim Coletta Donna Fiala (via speakerphone) ABSENT: Tom Henning ALSO PRESENT: Thomas Olliff, County Manager Page 1 LEGAL NonCE OJ' pUBLIC woRKSHOP comer Couty Board of Commissioners wm hold. Public Workshop With the Stermw.ter ManqeID_t DepartmeDt Oa Aupst 1,2001 Pre.. , .... to 12 P.ID. .tthe Board of County COllUDialioDen M.eedD1 Beom, 3" Floor BaraaD Turaer BuUdiDI (BulIdiD."F") CoWer County Govenuaeat Cnter 3301 East T....ialDi Tnil N.ples THE STORMW ATER PROGRAM AND CURRENT INIATIVES WILL BE DISCUSSED. August 1, 2001 John Boldt, Stormwater Director Norman Feder, Transportation Admin. Peter Hayden, Project Manager Page 2 _..~_.~_...-.._- ^-- ~--,-"""","-'-'~'-' ... August 1, 2001 CHAIRMAN CARTER: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the workshop on stormwater management. Commissioners Mac'Kie, Coletta, and myself are here at the table, and Commissioner Fiala is joining us by audio phone this morning. So if you will join with me for the pledge of allegiance, we'll begin the meeting. (The pledge of allegiance was recited in unison.) CHAIRMAN CARTER: A great day for a stormwater management workshop with a wave coming in here. We'll probably get a little rain in the next two or three days. I'm sure that John will be all smiles to make his points this morning. Mr. Olliff, do you want to begin our discussion? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We might just want to check and be sure that Commissioner Fiala is there and can hear us. MR. OLLIFF: Commissioner Fiala, are you connected? MR. BOLDT: I talked to Gene earlier, and I'm not-- COMMISSIONER FIALA: There we go. How's that? CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yeah. We're great. You pushed the right buttons. Okay. MR. OLLIFF: Good morning. Welcome aboard. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you. It's nice to see all of you so happy and perky and chipper. Oh, hi, Pam. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Some people know how to attend a workshop is all I can say. COMMISSIONER FIALA: This is such comfort. You know, I'm even close to the refrigerator. MR. BOLDT: Can we inquire? Does she have the book in front of her or -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, I do. I have everything here. They've been kind enough to deliver everything. MR. BOLDT: Very good. Page 3 August 1, 2001 COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you, John. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, speedy recovery. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You're welcome. MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, first, thanks on behalf of the staff and the board again for taking the time to take an issue and break it down into its details to try and understand a lot of what's going on in terms of the history of the project. These workshops are extremely beneficial -- we hope for the new commissioners in particular -- to understand a lot of these subj ects that have been ongoing issues in Collier County for a number of years. In the case of stormwater, we're probably looking at an issue that John personally as well as public works staff around the county have been working on for, frankly, decades. Stormwater management is obviously something that is very, very important here with the average 54 inches of rainfall that we get over the course of a year. Managing all of that water and trying to find ways to balance the need to retain it during the wet season, to replenish groundwater supplies, and yet make sure that we have a livable environment for the 28 or 30 residents who are moving here every single day is the job that John's got in front of him, and it's not an easy task. What we have been looking at in terms of the entire stormwater system is one that needs improvement, frankly, and looked at from a systematic standpoint all the way from its southern terminus all the way to the northern end of the county. I think John will explain to you the entire stormwater system that we envision and hopefully give you a little history about where we've come from and where we're trying to go. It is a major, major long-term kind of a project, but it's one that, frankly, I think as a board we are going to need to grapple with and take some aggressive first steps to start making those systemwide improvements. Then, other than that, we're going to have some opportunity for public comment. There are Page 4 August 1, 2001 public speaker slips. Jenny, where are those, the slips themselves? The slips are right there (indicating). If anyone is interested in speaking, if they would just fill out one of those slips and give it back to Jenny. Jenny, again, if you'll raise your hand so that everyone can see where you are. If you'll get those to her, after we take a break this morning, we'll have an opportunity for public speakers and then obviously some questions and comments and hopefully some discussion with the board members. And, John, with that I'll turn it over to you and Norman. MR. BOLDT: Well, good morning. I'm John Boldt, the Collier County stormwater management director. I always joke when I make these presentations that I can brag that I'm the best stormwater management director Collier County has ever had. Of course, I'm the only one they've ever had. With that bit of com, we'll move right on. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And we'd like to keep it that way, John-- CHAIRMAN CARTER: Right. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- as long as you'll stay. MR. BOLDT: Our stormwater management department, we've had a motto for a number of years. We claim to be the "can do" department. This morning's presentation is going to involve -- and I'm going to introduce my staff here in a minute. We're going to have a briefing on our overall program and just some basics on stormwater. We call it Stormwater 101. Then we're going to talk about some of the specific capital-improvement programs we have, what our needs and costs are. And I know there's a number of people in the public this morning here from the Lely area. The article that was in the paper last Saturday, I think, put a lot of emphasis on that project. It's not the only reason we're meeting here today. It's going to be one of our biggest capital programs. We want to talk about it in specifics, but Page 5 August 1, 2001 it's not the only reason we're here. I'd like to bring before you in Item No.4 some of our future challenges, and as Tom said, we will have some public comment period a little bit later on. Later on we'll wrap up and get the board's comments and some direction on a number of items. Having said all of that, I do want to introduce my staff. First of all, to begin with my administrator, the transportation administrator, is on my left, Norman Feder. The other department directors from the transportation division are here. Ed Kant with operations. Steve Miller is with our construction engineering, construction management. Dawn Wolfe is with our planning within transportation. My only staff, senior project manager Robert Wiley is here, and Robert is our expert on Lely. If you have a chance during the break or after and you want specific questions answered, Robert's lived with this project a number of years, and he wakes up in the middle of the night thinking about it, so he would be your man for that. Also, I have two other project managers here. On my right is Peter Hayden, one of the project managers, and between Peter and Steve Preston -- Steve, identify yourself -- they're the ones that helped me put this PowerPoint together. I didn't know they had these talents, and I think you'll be impressed with some of the graphics they've come up with. Then we have Shane Cox as another project manager, and then Jenny Kander is one of our secretaries. The rest of the staff is back at the office manning the phones and taking care of stormwater this mornIng. Here is our organizational chart. I won't bore you with all the details but only tell you that we have basically two operations: Our operations and maintenance, field crews. We have up to 15 people in the field, and we'll be telling you a little bit more about that. Then we have the capital side of it that Robert Wiley's involved with. We'll tell you a little bit more about his work later on. Page 6 August 1, 2001 Just starting with Basics 101, let me just identify you with what the hydrological cycle is and get yau familiar with it. There's rainfall and runaff and perculatian, evaporatian, tranpiratian. That's the basics. But what I deal with every day is called the hydro-illagical cycle. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Amen. MR. BOLDT: It starts with rainfall. Tam will get a smile aut of this. Yau knaw, I have been praying far rain for taday. I'm surprised it's not boaming and banging out there as we speak. We don't narmally name trapical waves, but we have one earning at us, and with yaur indulgence we're gaing ta name it Trapical Wave J ahn. Befare the marning is over, ifyau check the radar, it's maving in an us. It daesn't loak like it's gaing ta have a great deal .of rain, but it's going ta give us a rainy periad far the next couple .of days. Rain far us brings awareness. More rain brings panic. Less rain means a draught, and draught brings apathy. This is the cycle that we live with in stormwater, not .only in Callier Caunty, but, yau knaw, all thraugh Florida. Yau deal with issues like transpartatian and raad cangestian aut there every day. Sametimes it gets a little worse than .others. But we deal with extremes in rainfall in Flarida and Callier Caunty. There's the extreme dry seasan and then the wet seasan. Sa in this hydra-illagical cycle, that's part of .our prablem. Rainfall in Collier Caunty -- just some rough numbers -- averages abaut 55 inches per year. A gaad 80 percent .of that in a normal year comes from what we call the wet seasan, basically May, June through Octaber, November. You'll hear us talk about design starms. I just listed three of them there just far your infarmation ta give yau an idea .of the magnitude. A 10-year design storm is abaut 9 inches within 72 haurs. That varies thraughaut the county. There's different ranges. For 25 years, 11 inches; a 100-year starm is 13 inches. Page 7 August 1, 2001 Talking abaut frequency, yau'll natice aver in the right we talk about the percent chance, and that's really a better way ta look at this. When we talk about a 25-year starm, well, that doesn't mean we're gaing to get a storm like this every 25 years. That means in any given year there's a 4 percent chance, statistical chance, that we'll get a starm of that magnitude. Yau know, 10 years, it's 10 percent; 100 years is 1 percent. That gives yau a little better frame of reference. We can have twa 25-year starms in the same year. It's a statistical game we play. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yau cauld have .one .of each; right, Jahn? MR. BOLDT: One of each, yeah, and hit for the cycle. I guess we cauld da that, but heaven help us if we did that. And like I said, there's really nathing narmal in .our part .of the warld. It seems like we always deal with extremes. You knaw, it's either tao wet, taa dry, taa hat, toa cold, and we just deal with that. Recent majar starm events that we've had that's sart .of .our benchmark that we talk abaut all the time in starmwater were Trapical Storm Bab back in July .of '85. It varied in different parts .of the caunty, but it was 16 to 27 inches in 48 haurs. It was, yau knaw, a major starm. Everything was floaded at that point. Mare recently in '95, August, we had Trapical Starm Jerry. Actually, it was Jerry, Jr., because Jerry maved through here, went aut, turned araund, came back and did us a dauble hit. Some parts of the caunty got 16 ta 20 inches of rainfall in a 24-haur periad. These were localized areas. Sametimes the narth part of the county gat less than the sauth and sa an. Then the rainfall we had last week that you're mast familiar with varied, what, five or six inches. I heard reparts .of up to 10 inches, which is a pretty gaad magnitude storm. But since that was really the first majar storm we had of the seasan, we say, yau knaw, the spange Page 8 August 1, 2001 was empty. The canals, a lat .of them were still dry. Yau could still see the battom. The lakes were way dawn. The aquifers were basically, yau knaw, down. Sa that rainfall just kind of filled up the system. If we had had anather twa .or three inches a cauple days later, it wauld have caused majar flaading because the sponge was full and hadn't had a chance ta kind of drain .off again. I don't knaw what this trapical wave is gaing ta bring, but I dan't think it's gaing to be that big .of a deal. Just a reminder: The only thing that makes water mave is a difference in elevatian, and excuse .our English, "We dan't gat nane." Just to give yau an idea, raughly alang the caastline we have elevatians .of about five feet above sea level. Immakalee is abaut 30 miles inland so, let's say, 35 feet abave sea level. So that's 30 feet, 30 miles. That's .one faat per mile, which equates to being extremely flat. Water just maves in a very sluggish manner through that type .of a gradient. Subtle changes .of just a few inches can make a real difference in sheetflaw pattern. For thase of you like myselfwha started out, you know, our careers up narth where 10, 20, 30 faat wauldn't be unusual an a piece of praperty. Down here a few inches can make a big difference when we try to cantral water with water-cantrol structures and things of that nature. An extreme example is -- I remember a few years aga we had same majar fires up near the area of951 and Immokalee Raad. The farestry department went in there and plawed in fire breaks with their plaws. They plow up mounds so the fire doesn't ga across. Those maunds might have been 12 inches or 18 inches high. Once the fire is aver, they don't ga back and level thase .off again, sa naw we've got these fire breaks. That actually changed the basin flaw up in same of thase areas. The water dan't flaw that way na more. It gaes this way just because .of that little difference. So those are the sarts Page 9 August 1, 2001 .of things that we deal with. Just a reminder that, yau knaw, the water management district plays a big rale in Callier Caunty, as they do in all .of Florida. I forgat to introduce Clarence Tiers. I meant ta do that. Clarence is back there. Clarence, identify yaurself. Clarence is the director .of the Big Cypress Basin and represents the water management district here. These districts were created back in 1976. There are five water management districts in the State .of Florida. Weare in South Flarida Water Management District, the so-called "soft mud." You'll hear people talk abaut the different muds. Well, we're in soft mud. We're nat in Southwest Florida Water Management District. That seems like lagically we should be. We're nat in "swift mud." Swift mud is up in the Tampa Bay area, and actually their headquarters is in Brooksville. South Flarida Water Management District has twa basins. There's the Big Cypress Basin, which is Collier Caunty, and then there's everybady else called the Okeechabee Basin, which is the rest .of the district. So Collier Caunty is very unique in that regard as far as the water management district. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: John, just in general, the reason we're nat in Southwest Florida is because yau dan't just divide us up by geagraphy. Yau divide us up by basins. Yau're going ta shaw us where our basin is, and it's nat an the sauthwest side .of Flarida. CHAIRMAN CARTER: We always need to thank Mary Ellen Hawkins far the fact that we have our awn basin because if it wauldn't have been far her efforts years aga in the state legislature, we wauld have gat wound inta everything else -- MR. BOLDT: That's the truth. CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- and been in big, big trauble. MR. BOLDT: Right. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thankfully she had the faresight ta Page 10 August 1, 2001 keep us separate. MR. BOLDT: They recagnize that with the Big Cypress Basin. Clarence has even gat their new building named the Mary Ellen Hawkins Building -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Excellent. MR. BOLDT: -- sa we'll give her credit. She's -- bless her heart __ recycled. She's back an the Big Cypress Basin Board again and still serving the people .of Collier Caunty. But this is the Sauth Flarida Water Management District. It's all .or parts of 16 caunties. We're a partion of that. We have the two basins. There's Collier Caunty and everybody else. It runs as far narth up to Orange Caunty, which is near the Orlando area, the Kissimmee River, yau know, which flows sauth. The headquarters -- the main headquarters far the district is in West Palm Beach. They have variaus service centers, and we're fortunate that .one of them is close to us. In Fart Myers they have a full-service center up there serving the water management district. Haw am I daing, Peter? MR. HAYDEN: Yau're daing great. MR. BOLDT: All right. The Big Cypress Basin was sponsared by Mary Ellen Hawkins back in the days when she was a freshman in the legislature, back in those days. It daes have its awn separate gaverning baard named by the governar. It sets its own millage rate. As a reminder, it's based an the Callier Caunty tax base. The Big Cypress Basin .only gets its money fram Callier County, and all thase manies stay within Callier County. Just to give yau a comparisan with Lee Caunty, the water management district basically has layers .of taxatian. The first .one is far planning and regulation. Yau can see Lee Caunty is .284 as is Collier Caunty. We share that. Then in the aperatian and maintenance partian, all their capital pragrams, yau'll notice that Lee County is .313 and currently Callier Caunty is .278, Page 11 August 1, 2001 although there's a prapasal in the warks, I think Clarence said, ta lawer that down ta .25 .or samething of that nature, so there cauld be a reduction. In addition, you've heard a lat abaut the $8 billion Everglades restaration praject. Notice that Lee Caunty is gaing ta put one-tenth .of a mill tawards that and Callier Caunty has nane. It's because we are nat part of the Everglades Basin. We're the Big Cypress Basin. Sa the end result .of this -- you can see the millage rate for Lee Caunty is .697 and Collier Caunty is .562. Again, we give Mary Ellen Hawkins thanks far that differential and far the fact that we have .our own basin here. We also have an agreement with the Big Cypress Basin that was signed back in 1991. It was just recently renewed by the board back in Octaber far an additianal ten years. And as a result of same recent canversations you had cancerning the agreement, it's under review again, and we may be caming back ta you with same fine-tuning. Basically it was a separation of respansibility. The Big Cypress Basin valunteered and in the agreement have taken an the operation and maintenance and the capital impravements of the sa-called primary system, and I'll show yau what that laaks like an a map here in a minute. It's 163 miles .of canals and some 40 water-level control structures. The caunty maintains contral, operation and maintenance, and capital impravements an the so- called secondary system. It's 146 miles .of canals and 12 water-level cantrol structures. The tatal, then, for the county is 309 miles. Yau're gaing ta see same ather graphics that my staff put tagether. I apolagize for this .one. It just didn't came aut the way we wanted it. This is gaing ta shaw you kind .of the separation between the primary and the secandary. The primary, the Big Cypress Basin, is in the green area. I know it's kind .of hard ta see. Yau can get an idea. But it's mastly aut in Galden Gate Estates and in the major canal systems out there. Then the primary .or the secandary system Page 12 August 1, 2001 that the county's respansible far is in the sa-called red. It's mostly in the urban area. I da have a copy .of this map. It's available. It's standing up aver there an the windawsill. Yau're welcame to laak at it later an. Alsa, there's same ather maps that we're talking about. As just a reminder, too, if you wauld like ta have capies .of this map - _ this is, I guess, far the general public and especially far the baard -- ifyau'll see Jenny, she's gat a pad .of paper, and she'll take yaur .order later an and the numbers .of maps. So as we go through same .of these other maps, if yau see same yau want, make a nate and then ask Jenny, and we'll make sure we supply thase ta yau. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Jahn, I'm sarry ta interrupt, but wauld yau just give me briefly in layman's terms what is a basin. MR. BOLDT: That's a very gaod question. We talk abaut basins very laosely dawn here. In same ather parts of the country, they talk abaut watersheds. This wauld be an area -- the way we view it is it's land area in which when rainwater falls, it all flows dawn inta .one camman paint within a baundary. It's usually surraunded by hills .or ridges .or mauntains, and we dan't have thase in Callier Caunty, but .our basins are areas of camman stormwater flaw. Is that a gaad enaugh layman's explanation? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I might be able ta help Danna with that. Think abaut the cantinental divide as an extreme in this case where the water flaws either ta the Pacific, the Atlantic, .or the Gulf .of Mexico. It's the same with a basin. It's clearly defined ridges where the water divides ta ga .one direction .or anather. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, that's a caol description. Thank yau sa much. I wasn't sure if it had ta do with where the board was .or where the water flowed. Thank y.ou. MR. BOLDT:' I guess it really is bath. Us engineers talk abaut watersheds .or basins for Lely .or far all these ather projects we talk abaut. When we talk abaut the Big Cypress Basin, that's a little bit Page 13 August 1, 2001 different. It doesn't really fit the same categary, but it does generally. The Big Cypress Basin baard is respansible far a good share .of the sa-called Big Cypress watershed that's aut in the eastern part of the caunty, nat ta be confused with the Everglades, which is anather basin, sa that's sart .of the differential. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So basically yau have .one big basin, which is .our Sauth Florida Water Management District, and within it there are sub-basins. You knaw, they are little tributaries of flaw. MR. BOLDT: Very true. Just as an example .of what I knaw abaut Southwest Flarida Water Management District, the so-called "swift mud," is it's divided up into eight basins. We have twa, Callier Caunty and the rest. They have eight. And they each have their awn governing board, millage rate, and then they repart to the big board. Ours isn't quite that confusing. Just ta give yau an idea very quickly of some .of the things that my department is invalved with, we deal mastly with freshwater enviranments. We da site plan reviews in caoperatian with the cammunity develapment divisian as it relates to starmwater. That's a recent innavatian that yau authorized a pasitian ta do that here just within this last budget year. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I have questians about that. Would naw be the right time, or are yau gaing ta tell us mare about that later? MR. BOLDT: I didn't plan to talk abaut it later, so let's -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I just ask a quick one? MR. BOLDT: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What is the jurisdictian between __ you know, what da we have autharity over as a county? What da we review versus what daes the district or the basin review? And, mare specifically, I know in general that a cammercial development, far example, or a multi-family develapment has ta retain all .of its Page 14 August 1, 2001 starmwater on site. Yau can't have runaff anta your neighbor's praperty. MR. BOLDT: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Haw daes that wark as a single- family hame? MR. BOLDT: Well, let's see if I can grapple with that .one. First .of all, South Florida Water Management District has the .overall autharity for all water management, even -- althaugh they do exempt single- family homes ta my knawledge. They haye delegated Callier Caunty -- and this is a rather unique delegatian. We have the autharity under their delegatian ta issue permits an their behalf for projects less than 40 acres, sa the smaller projects we singularly review far them an their behalf. We da, however, review all projects, even the large .ones. Same of the big prajects that yau see come thraugh here we dan't spend an awful lot of time reviewing the water management district .or the water management plans because we know the district's doing it, and we dan't want to have double review an all .of it. We do look at thase plans, particularly as it relates ta .off-site impacts, downstream effects .of these projects, sa there's sart of dual review in those areas. But, again, they have the overall autharity. Sometimes when we get dawn ta some canflict in same .of these areas, yau knaw, they have the staff. They have mare -- I call it -- muscle than we do, and they have more enfarcement and the ability to, yau knaw, get caaperatian. This is kind .of an evalving pracess, especially naw with this new seniar engineer that I have an my staff, July Darmas-Minar. I dan't think she's here this marning. She's-- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Reviewing plans. MR. BOLDT: -- reviewing plans. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's good. MR. BOLDT: And we are going through a pracess of Page 15 '" r ""_. August 1, 2001 integrating with Tom Kuck's .organization -- engineering, planning, and review -- and haw July fits inta that and what's she's reviewing and what they are reviewing -- we've had some coardinatian meetings. We are finding aut there's some gaps in .our review, and we're warking towards that. We may came back ta yau saon with same revisians ta ordinances that relate ta what cade enfarcement can da in this area. We've identified same problem areas that were nat -- we just haven't gat a handle an. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Because wauldn't it -- just sa I -- I'm surprised ta learn if my next-daar neighbor -- I have wanderful neighbars, and they wauld never da this. But if they decided to rebuild an their praperty and run off inta my -- let their starmwater run off into my yard, nabady's in charge .of manitaring that .or preventing that from happening? MR. BOLDT: Yes. We do have thase capabilities. That's .one of thase gaps we naticed lately in the Land Develapment Cade. Samebady help me with haw did we accomplish this. We passed an .ordinance with revisions recently ta Ordinance 90-10 which, first .of all, invalved some discharge rates for some unique areas. We wanted ta limit discharge up in the Harvey Basin. There was alsa a paragraph in that revisian that gave the autharity ta Callier Caunty to regulate exactly what yau're talking abaut. Again, we've identified this as a problem area, and naw just what you addressed is taken care .of by that ordinance. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sa we have the autharity ta review that naw, and yau're warking an the pracedures ta be sure it gets reviewed? MR. BOLDT: That's true. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: All right. MR. BOLDT: I'd say it's an evalving pracess at this paint. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Jahn, as you well knaw, I've had twa Page 16 --~ August 1, 2001 .or three instances that we've had ta wark through an that exact prablem -- MR. BOLDT: Right. CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- that Cammissianer Mac'Kie raised. I'm glad that we've got a better system ta deal with that. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thanks. MR. BOLDT: And we will be talking about this a little bit mare when we get inta some .of the presentatian. Again, what my department is involved with are the more regianal starmwater runoff, drainage .or flooding prablems, and the aquatic plant control in the secandary drainage system, as appased ta the primary. We da operate and maintain 12 cantrol structures and 3 starmwater pumping statians, and we'll show yau those in a little bit; and, alsa, the capital impravement pragram, which is gaing ta be, yau knaw, a majar portian of .our presentatian. These are the things that we are involved with. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I ask one mare question? MR. BOLDT: Yau betcha. This is yaur show. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We get calls -- I get calls, sa I imagine everybody does, abaut when is my canal gaing to get cleaned aut, what's the schedule, when am I -- I wander if that isn't something we can publish an the internet or samehaw advertise what the regularly scheduled maintenance is for canals for .one thing so I wauldn't have ta call and ask every time I'm asked. It just wauld be nice ta knaw. There must be same sort .of standard timing. MR. BOLDT: That's been .one of my biggest frustratians over the years, exactly that. We keep wrestling with, yau know, who is responsible for this and, yau know, wha maintains it and haw often and what's the priority. The key to this whale thing and your very support .of this is called GIS. We need ta have a camprehensive mapping system that I can put all my canals on that backed up with a Page 1 7 .., August 1, 2001 database that lists wha's respanse, where it's at, haw lang is it, haw many acres, when it was sprayed the last time, what's its candition, haw much did it cost ta spray. Yau knaw, all this information we have right naw. We're gathering all .of this infarmatian, but we dan't have a salid database ta put it. We're waiting far GIS, geagraphic infarmation systems, ta do that, and we're getting very clase. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Befare yau -- yau knaw, in the absence .of that, because we're a year .or twa away anyway, I would think, then -- you knaw, in Painciana Village they're very diligent abaut calling to sort .of do their nagging ta be sure they get their canals done because it's so critical. They flaad sa badly if they don't. Is that -- I mean, is it the squeaky wheel gets the grease right naw, or is it an a schedule? MR. BOLDT: It's basically an a schedule. We have various priorities fram .one ta faur assigned ta all .of .our systems. The number .ones are, like, Poinciana with their high visibility and a lat .of peaple dependent upan it as appased ta same small branches we have way aut in the remote areas as number fours. We try ta treat .one thraugh faur an a frequency of maybe three .or faur times a year in the high priority areas and down ta maybe only .once a year in thase ather areas. My field supervisar, Harry Alkire, periadically pravides me with his so-called ta-da list of where he's gaing to be putting same .of the variaus equipment that I'll be shawing here shartly and what his priorities are, and then we discuss, yau know, are these the proper priarities. But quite often it is the ones that surface, the prablem areas that came aut of the woadwark, where we didn't knaw we had a prablem. Sa sametimes it is a squeaky wheel. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. MR. BOLDT: And I knaw you've been real frustrated in same .of thase areas in trying ta keep mare invalved because yau have people asking yau. Like I said, it's been very difficult far us ta Page 18 Tn P' August 1, 2001 provide that informatian because we dan't have the means to da it yet. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yau knaw, the East Naples part of my district generally feels like they dan't get their fair share .of attentian an this. It's hard far me ta caunter that feeling when I dan't have the data. MR. FEDER: Cammissianer, I think you make a gaad paint. Yau alsa have raad and bridge, as J ahn pointed aut, to da same .of thase ditches. They have some crews. We can try ta address that. And the last thing is, in the new budget, you appraved for J ahn a canal maintenance crew which is needed sa that we can get mare .of this work dane. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: John knaws every year that I've been here when his budget has came up, I've said, "Are yau sure yau dan't need same mare?" MR. BOLDT: And I really appreciate yaur suppart, believe me, and the other cammissianers taa. Being .one of the old timers, yau've been thraugh same .of the wars we've had, and yau knaw how critical it is. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: He was the .only -- he was the department when I gat here. MR. BOLDT: Nat quite that bad, but it was pretty close. Same of the things that we're nat involved with, and it's gaing ta hit an what we just talked abaut, is, first of all, tidal water areas. I've gat some thaughts an that a little bit later. Raadside ditches, swales, and storm drains and pipes are by and large mostly the responsibility of .our transpartatian operations, raad and bridge sectian. They're kind of the backbane .of the whole system. Yau knaw, they're kind .of the callectars that pass it on into my secandary system that passes it an ta Clarence's primary system. That's kind of the layers. Even befare this, quite .often, is the home .owner assaciations, particularly our mare Page 19 . ,.... August 1, 2001 madern prajects, that collect it in their lakes and swales and then discharge it inta the swales that then pass it an. By and large, I'm not responsible far the raadside ditches and culverts. Peaple shauld be calling transportatian .operations. I knaw Ed Kant flinches when I say that, but it saves peaple a lat of frustration if they knaw wha ta call. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I guess I'll ask Norm since it's nat yaur area, but are they an a schedule? How is that -- and the ather piece .of infarmatian that people get really canfused abaut is which swales do we maintain and which swales are the individual hameawners respansibility? MR. FEDER: Basically, it wauld be the public raad swales that go anta the schedule. MR. KANT: Gaad morning, Cammissianers. I'm Edward Kant, transpartatian aperatians directar. Yes, we are an a schedule in different parts of the caunty. We have, as yau're aware, kind of a dichatamy. East of 951 is very rural, whereas west it's much mare urbanized. Typically we try in the urban areas ta keep ta a four- ta six-week schedule and in the rural areas to a six- ta eight- .or sametimes eight- ta ten-week schedule. It's very difficult to do because every time we have a starm event, we get detoured samewhat. And always, frankly, with the 1500 miles .of raads that we have, it's very, very difficult to keep up with it. As far as which is ours and which is the hameawners, people have ta remember that when they get a permit far a driveway, that pipe and that driveway and any .of the accutriments that go with that -- sametimes they put little walls and fences and more landscaping; that is their respansibility. Typically we will maw and maintain the ditches in front .of unimproved property but not in front of improved praperty, one of the reasans being because it's sa difficult ta determine which is a weed and which is a flower. Yau never knaw what samebady's Page 20 ... August 1, 2001 planted. That's kind .of a shart explanation, but typically if there's ever a question, sametimes it turns aut it is John's respansibility, and sametimes it turns aut it's .ours, but we try to handle that internally rather than shaveling people araund ta five different places. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But, in general, far homeawners, they need to know that the swale in frant .of their home they shauld cansider it their responsibility to maintain. MR. KANT: That would be true similar ta in a developed .or planned cammunity where typically -- I knaw where I live I maw right aut ta the edge .of the street. I dan't stap 20 feet shart .of it and figure somebody's gaing ta came by. Even in .our hameawners' associatian, priar ta when we were built aut, when we did have a cantract mower .or the mawing cantractar came in ta da the roads, they would skip the impraved lots. That's just typically the way the caunty has develaped aver the years. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So even if it's a swale -- like, an mine, I'm blessed to have a curb and gutter, and sa it's flat ta the street, and it's natural to -- yau knaw, yau wauldn't wander. But if you're on a swale and you have this sart .of ditch in frant .of yaur hause, it's your responsibility ta keep it mowed? MR. KANT: That's correct. There are alsa a number of people that have laoked for permits ta fill in the swales. Frankly, that's samething that Jahn and I have been naadling with far -- I dan't knaw -- several years naw anyhaw, because sametime it's nat a prablem and sometimes it is a problem. We don't -- at least fram my paint .of view, we don't yet have a gaad enaugh engineering base. The GIS is going to make a tremendaus difference in our ability ta respond and in .our ability ta pravide a gaad base to tell people, yes, you can da this or, na, yau can't, and here's the reasan why. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank yau. MR. BOLDT: I guess the next thing we've already talked abaut Page 21 August 1, 2001 is that water management facilities in .our newer projects are within the hameawners' associatians' respansibility. Disputes between praperty owners regarding side-yard .or backyard prablems, that's a fuzzy area. Usually thase are between neighbars, and those are kind .of legal matters. We don't have a lat .of jurisdictian aver it. Just a little history on the flaw patterns in Collier Caunty. Generally speaking, the sheetflaw before man even tampered with the environment dawn here was fram the nartheast to the sauthwest. Then we intraduced a road system that, you know, greatly impacted that sheetflaw. Then we put a whole layer .of canals an that, and yau can see that we've madified the sheetflow and the drainage in the area drastically. That's gat us ta the paint where we have a number of problems in some of these areas. Same .of the past drainage practices __ yau knaw, a lat .of the roads that were built way back in early Collier Caunty needed a road bed. They needed ta raise it up. Sa they wauld -- alang the side .of the raad, they wauld excavate material and use that as the road fill. I call thase borrow canals, because they literally barrawed the material to build the road, but you end up with a canal, and it was never meant ta be a majar drainage facility. It's just because the road was there. We're dealing with a number of thase in .our histary that weren't really designed ta handle the large watersheds that they expect it ta naw. Also, there's a period .of histary in Callier County when the masquita cantral district was much more active. They used ta have draglines, and they were araund the caunty draining wetlands. Yau'll see evidence .of some .of thase yet in Collier Caunty. Yau knaw, back in thase days, yau know, drainage was the thing ta da. Drain the wetlands and get rid .of all .of the swamps and let the peaple mave in here and get rid .of the masquitaes. Well, we still have same .of thase ta deal with. Older develapments, same of them date back ta the '50s and '60s, they just used the ditch-and-drain method. This is befare Page 22 August 1, 2001 the ward "enviranment" was even in the dictianary. Again, yau can't fault the peaple back in thase days for daing it because it was the standard practice. Everybody appraved it and applauded it. Later an __ we just talked abaut newer develapments in these lower-lying areas that used fill ta raise up floor elevatians, and that's caused an interrupti an of the sheetflaw and impacted the neighbors themselves. Again, a lat of this stuff was all dane piecemeal back in the days when Harman Turner was the .only engineer in the county. My head's been spinning for the last 18 years with the accelerated grawth. I can imagine the challenges he had in the early days when he was all by himself trying ta contral what was gaing an in Callier County. Just a basic cancept in Stormwater 101. Yau'll hear us talk abaut pre and past discharge. It has an impact an it that -- which I say developing land causes mare stormwater ta run .off faster which increases the peak runaff. The bad news is what it daes ta the dawnstream neighbors. The salution or the regulation, particularly the water management district the caunty had, say that development cannot increase the peak runoff. Develapments must hald back the water in their lakes and then release it slowly thraugh contral structures. We call them arfices, either a V -natch or a raund arfice, ta slawly bleed off sa that the peak runaff is nat greater than the past. So pre develapment and post development are basically the same. Again, that's gaad news far the downstream neighbars, sart .of, and in theary the camputer models, you knaw, say that this is gaing ta prevent affsite impacts. In reality it may prevent faster runaff, but it daesn't solve this prablem of mare runaff, nar the cumulative effects of this. The water management district is mare aware .of this at this time. They're looking at not .only limiting the peak but alsa limiting the volume discharge pre and past. It's gaing to be quite a process, as yau can imagine, if we can figure out ways that we can reduce the volume of runoff, and it's going to take same very Page 23 August 1,2001 innavative techniques, and this whole -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: Essentially -- excuse me, Jahn. Essentially, John, what we've dane is destray the ability .of the land ta absorb by interrupting all this gradual sheetflow which is like a slaw- mavIng pracess. MR. BOLDT: Uh-huh. CHAIRMAN CARTER: What we did is, thraugh all the histary of people caming inta an area, we have impacted it to the point where -- what yau're trying ta struggle with taday. MR. BOLDT: Right. Particularly as it relates ta the valume .of runoff. Peaks, we're doing a pretty fair job .of daing that, but it still needs some fine-tuning. Very quickly, let's ga thraugh what .our aperatians and maintenance pragram is. This is about almast $2 millian .of my budget. Our base .of aperatian is out an Caunty Barn Road. A very antiquated building serves as the office for our field crew and herbicide starage. This is where they meet every day and load up their various vehicles. We stare .our equipment. We've been laaking ta try ta find another lacation far this, and we may same day find the right cambinatian and came ta yau asking ta be able to mave aut .of this facility. Caunty Barn Road is much in demand for space. I know that same other departments wauld like ta expand. They would love ta have us mave aut .of there and be able to have that space. Here's some .of the equipment that I have available. We have a lang-reach excavatar. I have a DC-3 dazer. I have a 1986 "little giant" rubber- tired mobile dragline that is very useful far variaus types of operations. I have a front-end laader. Then we have a very unique piece of equipment, and I think yau've seen it araund. It's called different names -- a swamp gator, a spider, muckmeister, all sarts .of titles -- but it's an all-terrain excavator. It costs new about $200,000. It's a very camplicated piece .of equipment built in Switzerland to Page 24 '--..----.- August 1, 2001 climb mountains, and it turns aut it's very adaptable for same of .our areas where we have very little space ta work. It gets us in same backyards, and it's quite adaptable. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We cauldn't do -- I mean, we cauld da almast nathing before we gat that. That's a very important piece .of equipment. We couldn't help Poinciana very much until we got it. I knaw that much. MR. BOLDT: That's true. MR. FEDER: Cammissianer, that's a gaad point. We're finding mare and mare as we develap how much more difficult it is to try ta maintain the systems. Yau have ta be in different people's yards and all .of that. MR. BOLDT: As we urbanize it's getting mare difficult for us all the time. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yau knaw, that's a very interesting paint ta me because this is .only one .of a multitude .of prablems that happen. Are we incorparating into the major PUDs -- which that's where we have the contral -- to make sure that we have the access? Again, it comes ta access far the maintenance .of this. I wauld laak far us ta cantinue to imprave and work with the whole planning process ta integrate that into it before we approve samething. They'll say, "Wait a minute. How da we get to the canal? How is this all gaing ta impact it?" sa Jahn doesn't came in and have to struggle months later an "Haw are we gaing ta get in there?" MR. BOLDT: That's one .of the reasons I requested and yau appraved that seniar engineer for project review. I keep emphasizing that when yau approve these proj ects ta think maintenance, think maintenance. If yau had ta ga aut and maintain the facility, haw wauld you get access ta it? We got to the paint now where -- and I'll shaw you here in a minute where we have to park our trucks an the street and drag hoses in backyards because we na langer have the Page 25 "' .~- August 1, 2001 access. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yau knaw, that's another reasan why it's sa impartant far yau ta have review autharity, even if samebody else -- even if the district -- yau know, if we're gaing ta have maintenance abligatians, you need ta review the plans because you'll think maintenance better than we ever will. MR. BOLDT: Right. Here's some ather miscellaneaus equipment I have. I have a five-yard dump truck, a chipper. We have a small tractar with a brushhag and a frant-end laader an it. This wan't shaw up very well, but this is basically some of the 12 water-level cantrol structures we have scattered around the county and their pumping statians. They came in a variety .of types. Same .of them are real simple with stap logs or baards that we pull in and aut. Others are gates that we .open and clase. A number .of them are these sa-called amil gates. These are a self-actuating structure that maintains a canstant upstream water level. Let's see. We watch these things closely, especially this time .of year, to make sure they're in gaad aperatian. During the starms they're to serve their purpose. Mast of these .or a gaad share .of them are saltwater barriers. They're at the interface with tidal and freshwater meant ta maintain or prevent saltwater intrusian. I alsa have a cauple airbaats that are specially equipped far same .of .our applicatians in same .of .our larger canals that have spray rigs an them. I have three .of these type .of pickup trucks with spray tanks that .our crews use ta reach same of these hard-ta-reach areas. I have a specialized flatbed truck with a larger tank on it. This is a one-man operatian, computer operated fram the cab, where he can direct the spray as he drives alang the raadway directing it for, yau know, specialized treatment an some .of the roadside ditches. We also recently replaced and have a new -- it's a six-wheel drive all-terrain vehicle that has a small tank an it, again, to get in same ofthase harder-ta-reach areas where we can na longer Page 26 " ," August 1, 2001 take .our bigger vehicles alang. We have a special problem here that's develaped recently. We got a new exatic that's invaded us, as though we didn't have enaugh exatics. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. MR. BOLDT: This is called -- we cammanly know it as snawflake. It's a nymphoides type. Clarence is also battling it in the Big Cypress Basin. I'm nat sure what they call it, but it taak us a long time to get it even identified. We think it started here in Callier Caunty. It spread very quickly. It's nat cantrolled by the narmal state-appraved herbicides that we use .or very effectively anyways. This is a canal that was heavily invested with it. We were working with University of Flarida specialists on it. Same Ph.D.s came dawn ta help us identify it. We've got a treatment pragram, same trial plots being tried. We're trying variaus herbicide applications at different rates trying ta get this under cantral, but sa far we haven't been greatly successful. I knaw Big Cypress Basin has also gat the same prablems, and they've tried different things. We're helping with the research an this through the university. Let's talk real quickly abaut same .of .our planning efforts. We did do as part .of the grawth management effort back in 1989 an overall stormwater management plan. Quite hanestly, it was a minimal study using minimal infarmation. Just a brief summary .of it, we evaluated aver 1,000 cantrol structures and crassings and canal segments. We faund that 38 percent .of them were inadequate. In the 55 basins or watersheds .or sub-basins we studied, we faund that about 26 percent .of those were substandard and 74 percent were unacceptable. We identified same 253 sa-called remedial prajects that needed ta be undertaken with variaus priorities, and this included the Big Cypress Basin . primary system. Back in 1989, in those dollars, we identified abaut an $80 millian program in order ta upgrade these facilities to an Page 27 "1 August 1, 2001 acceptable level of service standard, and we could spend the rest of the day talking about what's acceptable and unacceptable and what's the level .of service, but -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But, Jahn, after you discovered this giant shortfall and all these deficient systems, what was the county cammissianers' reaction ta that? Did they find them all? MR. BOLDT: Well, back in thase days, that was part .of the Grawth Management Plan. Let me just rattle thraugh same of these real quickly, same of these goals and objectives, and we'll hit an that very tapic. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. MR. BOLDT: I'm not gaing ta bare yau with reading all of these, but we had an .overall objective in .our drainage sub-element .of the Grawth Management Plan ta provide flaad pratectian, minimize water-quality degradation, and pratection .of our graundwater recharge areas. There was a number .of .objectives, and they ga an paragraph after paragraph. It wauld put yau ta sleep if I went thraugh all .of them, but we had variaus objectives ta meet this goal, yau knaw, ta annually update and maintain the level-of-service standards, update .our five-year plan, develap policies and pragrams, regulate land use and develapment -- this is like "matherhood and apple" pie type of gaals, and we're working tawards them -- protect the natural drainage features. Then we made a commitment, and it's in part .of .our Grawth Management Plan naw, and it's the sa-called capital impravement element through the DCA, Department .of Cammunity Affairs, far these five projects that yau see there. We'll talk mare abaut it specifically. But the problem is we didn't have any funding at that point. We had an early attempt back in the early 1990s ta create a starmwater utility, and we'll talk more about that at same ather point. That was determined not to be the practical thing ta da. We're gaing Page 28 .... .-- August 1, 2001 ta talk mare in detail abaut these projects and same of the casts, if yau'll bear with me on that. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just have to make a paint that, yau knaw, this caunty cammission has ta knaw that the priar cammissians were tald abaut the deficiencies, had some funding .options, yau know, identified, and they were all rej ected, sa nathing was done. I mean, it isn't that nathing was dane, but a plan was nat implemented. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I think .one .of the pasitive things is the fact that J ahn taak the time ta take us aut, spend a day with each one of us, thraugh the whale caunty showing us -- physically showing us each .one .of these structures we're talking abaut and seeing the prablems upfront. We can laak at these slides all day lang. Unless you've actually been there and tauched it, I don't think you really can have the kind .of understanding yau need ta be able ta act an it. Thank yau for that, Jahn. MR. BOLDT: Oh, it was my pleasure. MR. FEDER: Commissioner, .one thing I will add ta that, though, is I think you did take some actian recently in autharizing the staff far J ahn. He naw has a praduction staff. While yau have some general idea .of numbers, he's gaing ta share same .of thase with yau, and he's develaped a pragram an thase general numbers. Yau're naw getting the analysis dane, the definitian of what actually has ta be impraved and, therefore, the ability ta came up with thase casts and define the prajects in a lat mare detail and ta get the permits, which is a big part of it. We talked abaut this. We think permitting an .our end -- he has ta have the permits to be able ta mare forward on the project. Sa I think yau're gaing ta find an same .of the majar projects he goes thraugh the steps he has ta follow, and I dan't want to preempt that presentatian, but until we define thase we can't get to same .of thase issues yau're saying. Sa the first part was staffing ta Page 29 --...---.-' August 1, 2001 allow that praductian ta bring this praject farward, and I think John will be able to hit an that in just a minute. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We're maving in the right direction. MR. FEDER: Yes, we are. MR. BOLDT: We talked about some of .our pragrams. I'm gaing ta talk abaut same specific capital impravement needs, and then we'll talk specifically abaut same .of these prajects as we ga through them. This is the sa-called majar urban flaad prane map. Yau can see same .of thase blue areas. This is just a quick estimate that we put tagether .of same of these hat spats. You can call it a measle map, if you'd like. Just from recallection of history, these are some of the more flood-prane areas that we've identified, and mast of these capital proj ects we're gaing ta talk about here in the next few minutes will facus in an variaus areas like that. We do have this map available. Again, it's standing aver against the wall if yau'd like to during the break .or later an go take a claser look. We don't guarantee this is all .of the flaad areas that we have, and we don't particularly want ta target same .of them, but here are a few of them in same .of the pictures. This is gaing ta be up in the Palm River area. There is Cypress Way East. You can see it's standing water aut in there. It's almast knee deep in the streets. We're addressing this. In this particular area, .one of the goad things that happened is this area is they're recanstructing the Palm River Galf Caurse, which for us is gaing to be a Gad send because they're gaing ta redirect a lat .of this starmwater and take care .of a lot of these issues. I'm not guaranteeing they're gaing ta salve them all, but it's gaing ta go greatly taward daing that. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Jahn, would yau mentian the fact that it's nat advisable to have yaur children in that type .of water. Page 30 ...........--r.. August 1, 2001 MR. BOLDT: Yeah. That's a very paar practice because .of the herbicides, pesticides, and animal waste. There's sanitary sewers there that might be bubbling up that cauld have all sorts .of, yau knaw, nasty stuff in it. I knaw it's fun far the kids, but they really should stay aut .of it. It's nat healthy to be in that water. It's a very gaad paint. The next area is down sart .of in the East Naples area .off of Bayshare. There's same flood-prane areas dawn here. This is .one .of the slides we had. This happens to be in the Maarehead Manor. We've had a lot of canversatians with those peaple even recently. A lat .of thase peaple and in ather parts .of the caunty when it started ta rain gat real nervous because they knew this is a chranic prablem area. Next is up in the Gateway Triangle area, and we'll talk mare abaut that in a little bit. Here's same .of the floading that takes place in that area. We'll talk abaut same .of things we're doing and same of the unique things we've dane. This is what we call the .old Lizard Cafe. It's had different names. It's only abaut three and a half .or faur feet above sea level. They have flaading like this frequently, but there is same gaod news far what's going an dawn there. Anather area, down in the Lely area, this was tawards the end .of the Trapical Storm Jerry. Robert Wiley was aut in the area with a camera. It's kind .of dark, but you can get an idea. The whale area was flaaded back in that time. This was, yau knaw, a majar rainfall event. It was no big surprise that the area was flaaded. This is one of the reasans we're dealing with .our Lely area starmwater impravement project. Then up in the Crawn Paint area is another unique set of circumstances. This alsa -- I don't think this was Jerry. This was anather storm. N atice the highlighted section. This is a walking catfish that decided ta walk across at that point in time. Again, the Lely area starmwater impravement praject is .one .of the keys ta solving this Page 3 1 ,~". August 1, 2001 particular prablem or at least minimizing it. Sa thase are our .overall basin studies we're gaing to talk abaut. We're going to talk abaut their gaals and what we're trying to accamplish: Drainage and flood cantrol, water quality, graundwater recharge, and saltwater reductian. Narmally it cavers these kind .of phases. Yau'll hear us talk abaut the various phases .of our studies; Phase I being usually gathering the tapagraphic infarmatian. Phase II is data callectian and all thase types .of infarmatian. Phase III is the computer madeling, and we're getting mare saphisticated with this all the time in our ability ta calibrate these madels so they act like Mather Nature does. And then we can do the evaluatian, laak at all the salutians and all the "what ifs," and then what's the impact and what's the benefit. And .once we work through that, we decide what we want to do, and we go inta the design phase, which involves all the engineering, the permitting, and easements. Actually, we dan't da engineering anymare. We do permitting. Permitting drives everything. We have to da engineering ta get yau permits, but it's mare .of a permitting pracess and a very laboriaus .one tao. Then finally inta the canstructian phase. Here are same .of the ma j .or things that the Big Cypress Basin has gaing on, and we gat this information from Clarence. He has a very aggressive pragram, and he's working particularly in Cacohatchee, Main Golden Gate, aut in the Faka Union Basin, Sauthern Golden Gate Estates restaratian, and a very unique praject up in Lake Traffard. And you can see same .of the costs identified with that. He has had a histary in recent years .of having his millage rate far this capital improvement at a steady rate. Sa he's kind .of leveled it .off. He's been able ta put maney in reserve sa there's na big peaks and valleys. We commend him far that and his very progressive pragram. Quite hanestly, if the basin wasn't daing it, yau knaw, we would still be respansible. It's a real asset to us, and we wark hand in Page 32 '~,. August 1, 2001 hand with them. Very quickly, I'd like to mave thraugh same .of these. You stop me any time you want ta talk in mare detail, but this is the capital program for proj ects we wauld like ta highlight far yau taday starting aut with our number .one priarity, which is the Lely starmwater proj ect. We've identified Gardan River as the see and. Yau can see the list gaes on, nat necessarily in .order of priority .or magnitude, but these are the prajects that we have ongaing. I liken it ta being a juggler at times. I have all these tennis balls up in the air. I can't keep them all up in the air at the same time. Periadically we can grab .one and really wark an it hard, but if we wark an that .one tao hard the rest .of them will drop. As N .orman said, thaugh, I naw have a staff capable of keeping all these projects gaing, but I think we're finding that this is kind .of an overwhelming task. We need ta give mare identification to some priarities and same focus an that. We'll be laoking ta you ta help us with that. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: One questian, Jahn. I see where No.5 is the Immakalee urban area and then an the other side it says Immokalee/Mackingbird Lake outfall. Aren't they one and the same? MR. BOLDT: Well, the urban area is the whale area up there, the whale so-called Immakalee Basin. We'd like ta master plan the whale village, if you want ta call it a village, .of which that Mackingbird Lake is a big part .of up in that narthwest carner. It's a critical area right now. We have a lat .of floading. We're trying ta address that ahead of time befare we laak at the whale area and where all this flaw is earning fram and where it's gaing. You'll natice even there's a Flarida ditch enclosure up there, the Flarida specialties ditch. That's anather specific area that needs same immediate attention. CHAIRMAN CARTER: John, in each capital-- in each fiscal Page 33 '~--' August 1, 2001 year under capital expenditures, as I look at that list .of projects, do you have a breakdawn an haw much is gaing to be spent an each .of these areas, whether it's the Gordan River Basin, Wiggins Pass, Lely, so that we as Cammissianers -- wha, .of caurse, are concerned with everything, but we get the calls from the specific areas. It wauld be very helpful for me ta be able ta give an .overview .of "Well, the Wiggins Pass Basin this year we're going ta do this, this, and this." MR. BOLDT: Okay. I think I can answer that best with a table. I'm going ta shaw yau .our sa-called five-year plan that's gaing to list all these prajects, haw much maney we have available this fiscal year, haw much yau'll be asked ta apprave in September far next year, and then the next faur year of .our plan. MR. FEDER: John, if I cauld as well-- Commissioner, I think what you've gat is yau've gat a gaad five-year, and they've actually almost gat a ten-year plan that daes that, and it lays it aut in the phases yau mentianed. But I think what yau're finding is two things. One, naw that yau've gat the staff and you're defining the praj ects, we know mare about them sa we'll be able ta develap a mare specific five-year wark pragram. And the ather thing is, as John mentioned, we need ta laak at priarities and try ta get same .of thase structures sa we knaw where we can facus on. We can't camplete all .of thase in one shat. We need ta start focusing in an same, and that's the priarities that we'll be earning ta yau with .once we get mare defined figures far the program. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Part .of that, too, Norman, ties in with, again, the cantinuing planning and approval pracess that's dane by the Board .of Caunty Cammissianers. I would like to knaw in any development where are we on some of these particular critical issues sa that we don't exasperate the situatian, because that may be enough far us to say "great idea, great praject," however, until this is dane we can't apprave that. And I think recently .or within the last 24 manths Page 34 ~ , August 1,2001 we did miss an .opportunity with a developer up in the Wiggins Pass Road area where we cauld have dane same things that unfortunately we just didn't have the harsepawer and everything in place ta do it. MR. FEDER: And, again, with the staff and the praductian that they're daing, as they learn mare abaut the prajects and the specifics and with the development review that you just established and that position and that caordinatian, I hope we are going to be closer ta that. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. MR. BOLDT: Yaujust hit an a goad paint. That was one .of the reasans I put that pre/past discus sian in there, because as these new develapments came in and their engineers evaluate this pre/post peak discharge, they're able ta shaw us by computer madeling with all these numbers that they're not gaing to have an affsite impact, that they're handling all of this. You see, that's what we're struggling with right now with same .of these sheetflaw that used ta ga thraugh the praject that no langer can. And when you accumulate all these flows from different prajects, how they have an accumulative effect, we're starting ta get a better handle an that. Let's talk about same specifics. This is our Na. 1 praject, the Lely area stormwater improvement praject. It's made up of twa sub- basins, the Lely Canal and the Lely -- we call it the Lely Manar. It gaes as far north as -- this is Radia Raad up here, and this is 951. We'll zaam on this a little bit. This wauld be -- and I'm shaky with this. This is U.S. 41. Rattlesnake Hammack gaes through here. You can see it's a large area of East Naples. Some of the major paints are it's abaut 14 square miles, 10 miles .of channels. It holds about 14 weirs, 2 majar lakes, 1 flow-way, 1 unique pumping station, and a number .of culverts are part .of the pragram. The estimated cost is same 16 ta 20 millian dallars. At this paint that daes nat include same .of the casts we wauld have ta .obtain some special drainage Page 35 "' ,. August 1, 2001 easements or mitigation. It's realizing that a lot .of this area, and in some of the alder areas, there's still wetlands that the agencies value highly, and if we're gaing to have drainage and flood contral, we're obviausly going ta impact thase wetlands. Thase agencies then laak to us ta mitigate the impacts .of that. Yau had the discus sian recently on same transpartatian praj ects in the county, aut of the caunty, in the basin, aut of the basin, that's going to be .our struggle. We talked to you earlier abaut a parcel .of land we've identified in the basin that might serve as a majar part of .our mitigatian, and we're starting ta move farward on getting that under cantrol. The status .of this proj ect, we've been working a number .of years an trying to get our permits. The respanse ta the questians that have been raised by the environmental agencies are being prepared at this time by a team of cansultants we have headed by Agnoli, Barber, & Brundage. Then we have various ather cansultants helping us ta respand ta it. We're maving forward. We're warking very closely with Callier Enterprises. A couple .of their representatives are here today. I knaw Rabert Wiley has been meeting with them and will meet again later in the week in talking abaut their land plan southwesterly .of U.S. 41 and haw that integrates inta the key element .of our praject. So that's starting ta, you knaw, really came tagether. Our real praperty management department is working hard an contacting all these parcels, trying ta get .our 'easements and mitigatian. We do have a legal description naw for a potential taxing district. If you shauld choase to da that later an -- and we'll be talking abaut it -- we're prepared ta create a taxing district if it's necessary as part of our .overall plan. The next project -- Cammissioner Fiala, I hear you rumbling. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, I'm sorry. MR. BOLDT: Na prablem. I just thaught yau might have a Page 36 .:1 " August 1, 2001 question because that's kind .of the heart and saul .of .one .of yaur areas alsa. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I picked up a pad afpaper. I'm making some notes here. MR. BOLDT: Okay. We'd be glad ta give any .of the cammissianers, you knaw, a special ane-an-ane briefing an this praject .or any .of these prajects, for that matter, ifyau'd like ta have more details on it. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. You knaw, especially this area because we're talking abaut the Lely Basin area. We're talking about all .of this stuff that's earning up, and they're all in my district. Sa I would lave that. MR. BOLDT: Well, we'll look forward to it. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you. MR. BOLDT: The next .one we've identified just in .order of magnitude is the Gardan River area. It's -- let me see if we can identify where this is at. This is Galden Gate Parkway. This wauld be Gaadlette Raad. This wauld be U.S. 41. This wauld be Pine Ridge Road, and this would be Airpart Road. The majarity of this area is, yau know, made up .of galf caurses; the Wilderness, Hale in the Wall, Royal Poinciana, Country Club of Naples. You have same alder areas that they talk about, Poinciana Village, Grey Oaks -- a partion .of it is in there naw -- and narth inta the Pine Ridge Industrial Park and The Crassings. It has a multitude of cancerns; drainage, fringe, and flaad contral. It's the head waters far Naples Bay, sa water quality. It has the coastal ridge aquifer. The City .of Naples is very concerned abaut the wells they have alang Gaadlette Raad. This praject is a partnership with the Big Cypress Basin and the City of Naples undertaking the study. We're in, what, abaut Phase III or IV .of this. Yau'll be hearing a lat mare about it here in the coming year. It encampasses abaut 8 1/2 square miles. Yau can see the Page 37 August 1, 2001 different camponents .of it, including about five branches that run fram the Gaadlette Raad ditch aver ta the main stem. The main stem flaws narth and sauth thraugh the galf courses, and there's a lat .of intercannections that we're going ta be dealing with. It's a very complicated process. Computer madeling it -- we're getting real clase ta having samething that we can start daing all the "what ifs," what if we da this and what if we da that. The estimated cost -- at this paint it's very preliminary. We're saying between 8 and 12 millian dollars. Then that, again, wauldn't include the mitigatian casts .or the majar costs that we dan't have a handle an at this paint in time. Status, let's see. We've gat the made ling done. We're just about ready ta do the "what ifs," and we're gaing ta start talking about doing the environmental permitting after the first .of the year. Yau have provided funds that we can start into that pracess. Anather praject way up in the narth part .of the county that we've been facusing an is the sa-called Wiggins Pass Basin. This is U.S. 41, Old 41. The Lee Caunty line is up in here. There's Wiggins Pass Raad. This is Vanderbilt Drive aver here an the west side. Just through a series .of develapments aver the years, the flaws became very sluggish at the lawer end. Same of the natural flaw-ways have been constricted, and sa back during Tapical Starm Jerry the water stacked up narth .of Wiggins Pass all the way up inta the project as far north as the Auduban, which is way up near the county line. We're warking tawards that. Yau've provided some funding far that. The smaller area is the single district paint .of discharge. We don't have much white water in Callier County, but there's an area in there that we have abaut six faat .of fall fram the raad dawn to the tidal canals. That's abaut as close to white water as we have, and we need ta take advantage .of that so we can get some flaw thraugh it. Page 38 on r .-_. August 1, 2001 Phase I is gaing ta be under construction saan. Yau pravided the funding far that, and then thraugh the transpartatian department, Ed Kant's budget, he's praviding same funds for that because .of the safety issues an that Gulf Harbour Drive. Phase II, there's manies in next year's budget if yau were ta approve it ta .obtain cantral .of the flow-way sauth .of Wiggins Pass Road. Phase I permitting is near campletian. We'll be bidding that out saan. The next proj ect is up in the very narthern part .of the county triggered by a lat .of develapment taking place up in that area. You've talked about the prajects recently, Meditera, Villages .of Maderra, and there's another large praject whase name changed. It was the Ranto proj ect. I've last track. It was up in the nartheast part of it. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Jahn, can I just interrupt far a second? MR. BOLDT: Uh-huh. CHAIRMAN CARTER: I want to ga back. Yau said "if it's appraved in next year's budget." Da yau mean the .one that we are currently dealing with effective Octaber 1, .or are yau talking 2000 -- 2002? Excuse me. MR. BOLDT: Na. The .one yau're gaing ta be reviewing in public hearing gaes inta effect in October of this year, 2001. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. So, in fact, if we apprave it, then you'll get ta Phase II of that? MR. BOLDT: Correct. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank yau. MR. BOLDT: Right. Cancern up in this area is the new develapment's impact on some .of the alder prajects; Imperial Golf Estates, Palm River, Willoughby Acres, and those things. We have a cansultant invalved in this praject. Here are same .of the major paints. Yau can see the areas that have been develaped. We're cancerned abaut, yau knaw, its impact Page 39 ... ~' August 1, 2001 on thase existing neighbarhaads. Estimated cast, depending an what we would recommend daing, is anywhere from twa ta five millian dollars to solve all .of .our prablems. The status .of this is it's in data callection. It's got same preliminary madeling dane. We're gaing ta be gaing inta a cantract saan to da same detailed modeling an haw this is all going ta flow tagether. It's multi-faceted. The water can go in several different directians, and we're trying ta take advantage .of that. This is the Immokalee urban area that we were talking abaut earlier. This is the whale area. With the so-called basins .or watersheds, a lot .of this -- I call it the village -- flaws out sautheast alang the State Raad 29 canal, the Barran River, headed tawards Everglades City. Same flow westerly into Lake Traffard. The last master plan we've seen done on this was way back in the '60s. We need to update it, you knaw, ta get or pravide far same long-range planning .of the area. This is just same general informatian an haw large of an area, where it goes. Estimated cost, this is a very, very preliminary figure. If we were ta go inta the area and, yau knaw, madernize same .of thase areas, enclase same of thase unsightly raadside canals .or ditches with pipes and pravide same water-quality treatment befare it goes into the river .or Lake Traffard, yau knaw, it cauld be very expensive. But we need ta launch inta a lang-range plan far that. Back into the East Naples area is Haldeman Creek. There's a number .of things going an dawn in that area. I think some .of you are familiar with it. This, again, is U. S. 41. This would be, what, Davis Baulevard. There's a lat .of older areas in here and same newer develapment. There's several things going an. Yau've heard recently about the dredging praject that's being praposed. There was same interest in improving same .of the streets and starm drains in the Bayshare area. We proposed ta da an .overall master plan to retrafit Page 40 August 1, 2001 same of these alder systems. The channel dredging project is underway. We're negatiating with a consultant at this paint in time in a cantract that yau'll see saan to came back ta launch inta, you know, the initial designs and permitting of that. The sa-called Bayshare area starmwater improvement .or starmwater system did nat receive appraval. We put in far -- community development put in far a cammunity development block grant, and it did not qualify, sa we need to look far same ather alternative funding there. The basin master plan we actually have in the can or in the bax. The phatography we need ta plot the -- we have the aerials ta plat the tapagraphy. That's the next stage, and that's proposed and in the budget that yau're being asked ta apprave in September far next year's budget. An adjoining alder watershed, Rack Creek, is an area basically east .of the Naples Airpart. Again, it's same alder neighbarhaads and same develaping areas that need ta be retrafitted. We need to do a master plan .of this area. It alsa has same water-quality issues because it discharges directly into Naples Bay. We're gaing ta be telling yau a little bit more about that in the latter part of our pragram. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just have ta take the chance ta say these people need same immediate relief. They've had same flaading. Yau've probably gotten the calls. I knaw I've sent some e- mails over. I never knaw if it's Jahn .or -- transpartation, Ed, yau know, where ta send it. MR. BOLDT: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But they've gat same floading problems in there right naw. MR. BOLDT: We've dane a lat in recent years an removal .of some exotics, particularly Brazilian peppers. They really infested that thing. We gat it opened up better, but we're still talking abaut Page 41 . ..- August 1, 2001 land elevations .of only three or faur feet above sea level, and it's uncantrolled. We don't have a cantral structure there. There's same neighborhoads that get flaaded quite frequently. So we need ta ga into the next step of basin planning. Again, we have the tapagraphy available to da the tapagraphic mapping, and that's praposed in the budget far next year. Next is Belle Meade, and this is a larger map. I'm particularly cancerned abaut the agricultural area that lies north .of 41, east of Callier Boulevard, and west of the estates. There's law-lying area, agriculture, an accumulatian aut there .of a lat .of ditches, berms, reservairs, but it's mostly farming at this paint. You know, I think at some paint in histary there will be a lat more development interest aut in that area. Pressure is put an ta expand the urban boundary. I'm going to say this .one mare time. I'd lave ta, once in my career, do a master plan befare the development taak place. We've just never been able ta get aut ahead .of it. This would be one area we wauld like ta be able ta master plan. It's got a lat of flow-ways that have been obliterated by agricultural development that need to be .opened up. We need the easements. We need to decide how we're gaing to handle all the water-quality issues because a lot of this water goes inta Raakery Bay. Again, we're propasing same funding far that in the future. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And-- CHAIRMAN CARTER: Jahn -- ga ahead, Cammissianer Mac'Kie. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Na. Yau ga ahead. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Jahn, I cauldn't agree with yau more abaut having a master plan. With the rural fringe study and everything, we have that windaw .of appartunity befare we da one that we get ta plan tagether sa that we integrate all of this and don't da a piecemeal jab here, but integrate everything that we need to do. Page 42 ..., ~-- August 1, 2001 This is, yau knaw, appartunity knacking for us, I think. This baard has the .opportunity ta make that call. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, in canjunctian with the Governar and Cabinet as part .of the settlement -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well-- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I think the master plan is gaing ta fall inta play na matter what happens. It has to be done at some paint in time sa we can identify the flaw-way. I'm sure it will all came together. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I can't imagine the Gavernar and the Cabinet say, "Gee, yau know, that's stupid ta have a master plan." I think they'll applaud us far every -- far gaing beyand what might be required by saying we even toak it a step further. This is how good it's gaing ta be at the end .of the day. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, yeah. The .only paint I was __ when I start hearing talk abaut develapment in Belle Meade, what I'm haping is that there's not gaing ta be a whale lot of that. There will be a great -- there will always be a need far planning, but hopefully .our urban baundary is going to be .our urban boundary, and then this wan't be terribly meaningful as far as the need far -- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think John will tell us regardless .of what happens aut there that there still has ta be a master plan because whatever takes place aut there is gaing to affect the rest afus. MR. BOLDT: I'd like just ta spend a few minutes talking abaut same specifics an some .of the smaller prajects, and then we're going to talk about same casts. Then at that paint I suggest we take a break. It will be about time to do that. And then we'll get into -- I think you'll find same interesting things in some .of these future challenge that we have far yau. So here's same smaller prajects, nat necessarily unimportant, but Page 43 .~~,.....-~.. August 1, 2001 some .of the smaller .ones that we're warking an. This is the Lake Kelly .outfall ditch. It's lacated aver east .of Bayshare. It drains inta Haldeman Creek fram Thamasson on down. We're dealing with several things aut there. Actually, the Paplar Way ditch enclasure is under constructian as we speak. The .outfall ditch itself is -- we're waiting far some easements, and we're dealing with trying ta reinstall a salinity barrier aut there at the end .of Barrett Avenue. The estimated cast at this paint is abaut $360,000. The Poplar Way ditch enclosure that gaes from Thamassan narth to the lake is under canstructian. Like I said, we're loa king to bid it aut after we get the easements an the rest .of it and the structure prabably in the next fiscal year. Another one is the Gateway Triangle Master Plan. Cammissianer Mac'Kie is very familiar with this. While it's a rather large praject, we've had same master planning. It's, yau know, an alder low-lying area, .one of the first areas aut in the East Naples area that develaped. It has a lang history of same street and building flaading. We've addressed it, and there's different alternatives. We're loaking at an estimated cost of samewhere, perhaps, in the area oftwa to three million dallars. The design of what we call Alternate 2A is entering inta the permitting stage. This is for the western portians .of the Gateway Triangle. It's like an intermediate step. The eventual lang-range solution to this law-lying area wauld be in the redevelapment. Same .of the areas need ta be redevelaped, raised up to a higher elevatian, put some madern retentian lakes in, but in the meantime we're gaing to try and pravide as much drainage and flaad cantral as we can. The baard's been suppartive an this. We're maving farward. We purchased a 2 1/2 acre tract .off .of the end of Peltan near Lee ta incorparate into our design. We've installed, thraugh a pracess .of six-laning U.S. 41, same check valves that are going ta help the area. Page 44 August 1, 2001 COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I've gat to tell a story on that .one. One .of .our prablems in getting that praject campleted is we needed an easement fram a man named Sal Marciana, who's lately been canvicted .of a federal crime. Remember, he's the A. S. Goldman guy. Now it's going ta be kind of hard ta get the easement fram him. Can you believe that? MR. BOLDT: Yeah. It's .one of .our frustratians. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Boam-Baam's brather; right? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah, exactly. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Maybe they can make it a canditian .of future probatian. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. I'm willing ta negotiate. MR. BOLDT: It's one of the key pieces afpraperty. There's hardly any way ta get around it. For awhile he had given power of attarney to an attarney that we were dealing with. He was very caaperative. He drapped that attorney and hired another .one, and this guy hardly talks to us. Naw the Galdmans -- or Marciana's in jail. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Injail-- prisan. MR. BOLDT: We're laaking for ways to still .obtain it through the caurt system, but it's one of the things that we're frustrated with. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can yau eminent damain somebody when they're in prisan? We'll find aut. MR. BOLDT: Okay. There's anather project out in the East Naples area. We call it the A valan schaal ditch. It starts fram Thamasson and goes south thraugh same alder neighbarhoads just -- this is Avalon Schaal. This is East Naples Cammunity Park. There's a system that flows sauth into the wetlands. There's a portian of what we call the Villages .of Sabal Bay, the Callier Enterprises praject, and we're trying ta provide some real flaad relief far some of thase alder neighborhaads east of Bayshare, sauth .of Thamassan. Yau can see what some of the majar paints are. Estimated cast -- again, it's sart Page 45 August 1, 2001 .of preliminary, but it's in that $300,000 range. We've got the design abaut 30 percent camplete, and we're hoping to get mare seriaus abaut permitting canstructian in '03. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's one we can't move tao quickly an, and yet it's sa basic. It's a ditch that's taa small, and the water that gets in the ditch daesn't have anywhere ta ga. MR. BOLDT: Right. Anather project not really in the capital area, but still very critical, is the Australian pine remaval praject. Quite honestly, it's the .old slagan, "Pay me now or pay me later." We have a real liability out there. If we ever got hit by an Andrew and these tree ga dawn, it's gaing to be a real liability, but it's a matter of priarities. We've had a cauple phases, and we're loaking ta da same more in the future so we can remave these trees. They're very shall .ow raated. They tip over easily, and they cauld plug .our easements and da praperty damage. Estimated cast -- and this is tatal remaval .of the .ones we've isalated, aver 4,000 trees -- could be as much as $3 millian. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And these are trees located within the system; right? MR. BOLDT: Within our drainage easements. If they flop .one way, they go inta the canal and block it. If they flap the ather way, the could go into hames. We've identified thase. We've had twa phases .of that removal already. I think we've spent almast a half million dallars an the first cauple phases, and there is $100,000 propased in the budget that you have far next year that cauld be approved in September that will help us mave farward. And then we're gaing ta propose in the five-year plan something like $200,000 a year, so we just keep maving farward at it. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Jahn, there's no value ta thase trees? I mean, the lumber in them is -- MR. BOLDT: Na. Page 46 August 1, 2001 CHAIRMAN CARTER: It's just absolutely nothing is what I'm hearing. MR. BOLDT: Very little. It's just like Murphy's Law. If it had any value, .obviously it wauld get a fungus and die. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Right. MR. BOLDT: Since they're worthless -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: Maybe we can create a value far them. MR. BOLDT: Yeah. It's like all .of .our exatics. You knaw, there's no value ta them. If they can get a value, they wauld die, and we wauldn't have ta warry about them. It's Murphy's Law. Here's some ather minar prajects we have, just very quickly. We're not gaing ta ga into details. We have another Mackingbird praject up in Pine Ridge. We have some culverts alang State Raad 29 that we need to upgrade. We already mentianed the Immakalee Flarida Specialties ditch enclasure and the Mackingbird Lake .outfall. Another East Naples area is Palm Street outfall dawn near Little Italy. In that area there's a drainage problem. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What's the timing? I mean, is that actually being warked on? MR. BOLDT: Yes. That's one .of the balls we have in the air. We're warking with a -- there's a new development there called, what, Sandpiper Village, I think, and that's a critical part .of it. We're working with them. We're gaing to talk a little mare briefly abaut tideflex check valves. We've got some .others in the program in the future. Also, I showed you same .of the majar capital equipment I have; same ofthase lang-reach excavatars and dozers and draglines. Thase need ta be replaced an a regular basis, so we wauld like to have, like, a sinking fund set up where we can every year put a little bit .of funds away so we have funds available ta pay far those on an ongoing basis. What daes this all mean dollar-wise? Well, this is a Page 47 . T'l r-- August 1, 2001 little hard ta see. This is our attempt at a five-year pragram. Yau can see all the variaus praj ects alang the left side that we talked abaut. The first calumn that yau see here, this is the budget that we're .operating with naw. Those funds are available in .our budget. Same of them will be spent this year. Others will be carried forward inta the next year depending on .our success in getting easements and permits and so an. The secand calumn is the budget that's under consideratian far the next fiscal year that yau'll be talking abaut during yaur public hearings during September. It will take effect in Octaber. Then there's years four, five -- three, faur, five that's ta yaur right. Yau get the total magnitude down here of abaut $35 millian dollars in these initial years. We're nat shawing it ta you today because it wasn't camplete, but .our ten-year program is prabably samething like $55 millian. But most of the maney is needed in thase initial years. These figures are very preliminary. They're dane with same wide ranges. As Narman mentianed earlier, I da have the resources available ta me naw in the way .of staff. I have three project managers. And with your suppart an same .of these funding issues, we are starting ta make same real pragress. We're gaing ta be back to yau -- later in the year we're gaing ta bring back ta yau some specifics on variaus ways we cauld finance these praj ects and alsa same .of the funding .options that we want to make available ta yau far the variaus types afprajects we have. We'll be warking hard on that, and we want ta get inta the specifics an that later in the year. Stay tuned. That's one of my first "stay tunes." This would be a gaad time ta break, Mr. Chairman. I think we're getting into the future challenges. CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Let's take 15. We'll be back. We'll give .our magic fingers a rest. We'll see yau at about a quarter ta. Page 48 <. "'l August 1,2001 (A shart break was held.) CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. We're back in sessian. Welcome ta the workshap, once again, ta our listening audience. We are now at the point far future challenges. Mr. Boldt. MR. BOLDT: I'd just like ta bring a few things forward far yau just ta think abaut. Same of them are mare impartant than others. One of .our potential liabilities is that some .of .our communities -- the concept .of the hameawners' associatian being respansible far the maintenance of their awn water management -- starmwater management facilities is rather unique ta Flarida. When we did our master plan back in 1989, we had a nationwide expert warking with us an our team, Hectar Cyre fram Water Resaurce Assaciates. He's actually the grandfather .of the stormwater utility. He warks natianwide in cammunities all aver, and he's a little cancerned about the direction we're gaing in with same of these homeowners' associatians. He says -- by experience, after they mature, when they're 15, 20, 30, 40 years old, he says they don't became as effective as they are in the early years. He's concerned abaut how the maintenance of same of these praj ects are gaing ta be as we mature inta this aver a periad .of time. So he's suggesting that perhaps this is gaing to be a liability the caunty is gaing ta have ta assume at same paint in histary. Again, it won't be our generation, but at same point yau need to be thinking in thase terms. Anather .one that's a potential -- now this is.very lang term -- on .our modem proj ects we have these detentianlretentian lakes that function as water-quality treatment areas. They're slowly accumulating the pallutants that came .off the land; the pesticides, the herbicides, you knaw, all the fertilizers and things like that. They're accumulating in the bottom sediments. Over the long-term, perhaps remaval .of these -- and I put these in quates -- "hazardaus waste" materials could be a very expensive prapasitian. Again, it's nat .our Page 49 T'! ,".- August 1, 2001 generatian but years down the raad. I think they're gaing to laak back and wish we hadn't dane it this way. I don't knaw how else we are gaing ta da it, but it cauld be a patentialliability. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Who's ultimately liable? The property owners in thase given areas? The caunty? Or is it joint? Or the state? I mean -- MR. BOLDT: On these madern prajects that were appraved since, yau knaw, back in the early '80s, the hameawners' assaciatian wauld be respansible. Our cansultant, Hector Cyre, said lang term he wonders if that's really gaing ta wark, whether they're gaing ta be able ta afford it, have the means to da it, and have the will to da it. He thinks it might become an .overall public interest and that the caunty will have ta assume that rale. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think yau're going ta find there is a lot .of public interest in this. Is there a passibility that samething could be done naw as far as what we allow as far as pesticides and fertilizers being used maybe in lesser amaunts? MR. BOLDT: Very gaad. That's a gaad paint. We're gaing ta talk about it. It's called NPDES, and I think we'll touch an that very point. I think we need a lat mare research in this area, and I think the water management district, the South Florida Water Management District, is prabably dealing with this, kind .of manitoring it an same trial prajects they have. So this is .one .of my "stay tuned" challenges far yau. Some ather .ones we have -- even taday some alder neighbarhaods that were established back pre -- early 1980s, back in the '60s and '70s, that da not have legally established homeowners' associatians with assessing powers. Yau'll recognize same .of these names. This is nat meant to be an all-inclusive list. It may even have same errors in it, but same .of these types .of projects are alder neighbarhaads that da not have a hameowners' assaciatian. If it is Page 50 August 1, 2001 it's strictly a civic assaciatian .or a sacial associatian. It doesn't really have assessing powers. We're having ta deal with these on a regular basis, and it's a challenge far us. We need ta figure aut a way to address that, sa that's another "stay tuned. " We'll prabably came back to you in the near future. This is a little far-fetched, but at same paint in time Callier Caunty is gaing to have ta start thinking lang term about land-use decisions and retrofitting neighbarhoods caused by glabal warming and sea-level rises. Steve Prestan put this tagether far me. It'll give yau a little idea .of haw the ramifications wauld be if we did have sea-level rises. Depending an which expert yau listen ta, it cauld be over the next hundred years be .one ta three meters. It cauld be .one faat. It cauld be ten faat. You knaw, nabody really knaws. Science isn't there. But the particular scientist fram the marine lab estimated that if we had a 3.6 faot rise in the next 115 years, and yau put a 2 faat high tide an that, that's bringing .our coastline fram zera up ta five. Again, Steve in his techniques tried ta .outline the particular areas along .our caastline and some .of .our lawer-lying areas that cauld be impacted by that sort .of prablem. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, not .only is it the floading issue here, but there wauldn't be habitat far mangraves after this -- MR. BOLDT: That's true. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- If it were ta happen. That's, yau knaw, the bottam of the faad chain for every fish we like ta eat. MR. BOLDT: Well, if yau laak real -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: Maybe we'll get hit by a mete .or .or a camet, and it will disrupt the whale warld, and we won't have ta warry abaut it. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, thanks. CHAIRMAN CARTER: It happened 7,000 years ago so, yau knaw, I dan't knaw when the next one's due ta hit us. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Is this wishful thinking? Page 51 August 1, 2001 CHAIRMAN CARTER: No, na, no, no. I'm just saying there's all kinds of possibilities aut there. MR. BOLDT: Well, like I said, we wan't have to warry abaut this. Maybe .our children or maybe .our grandchildren will be of the generatian that will have ta start thinking mare in terms .of this. If yau look real close at this map, yau'll find areas in here that already are develaped or are potential develapment areas where there will be a lat .of fill raising it up, yau know, to caunteract that thing, but it's gaing to be an impact to Callier County sameday. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's sart .of my district. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Bath .of our districts, Cammissianer. And I jake a little bit about same .of these things, but I'm very seriaus in terms .of -- we really need ta ask ourselves a lat .of these questions far the future, like how clase ta the water are yau really going ta develap and haw far back do yau really need to be in terms .of all these things that ga an. Naw, it could reverse toa. I mean, there's ather kind .of things that cauld happen. Who knaws. But the trend line is there. MR. BOLDT: We talked about the subtle changes. Even as little as a foot .of sea-level rise aver a shart periad of time cauld have a majar impact an .our ecolagy. Like yau said, the mangroves. That means saltwater intrusian is gaing ta impact .our well fields and, you knaw, it's a significant prablem in the future. It's one of the hazards of living on a caastal area. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And, yau knaw, it is tempting ta just say a mete .or -- and I know yau were jaking but, yau knaw, a hundred years is sort .of within our purview .of thinking, I think. CHAIRMAN CARTER: It sure is. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: This is -- I used to laugh at it, but it's becoming an accepted belief naw. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, our grandchildren could be Page 52 '" r - August 1, 2001 feeling the effects of it and certainly great great grandchildren can be the living results .of that. MR. BOLDT: True. CHAIRMAN CARTER: I mean, yau're right, Cammissianer. A hundred years is not taa lang. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Huh-uh. MR. BOLDT: This next subject I sort .of tauched an a little bit earlier. I talked abaut the responsibilities .of -- who's respansible far what. We have these tidal areas that have variaus creeks, canals, whatever yau want to call them, that are kind .of in a fuzzy area right naw. If yau start dawn south here with Henderson Creek, it crasses under State Raad 29 -- 91 -- 951 -- let me get it straight -- up ta 41; Haldeman Creek fram Naples Bay up ta 41; Rack Creek; the Gardan River and the Main Golden Gate fram it's confluence up and araund inta where the cantral structure's at; Cocahatchee River and Palm River; Wiggins Pass and Clam Pass, these are all tidal areas that in my mind, particularly in the dredging .of these facilities, whether it's for baating access .or if it's far stormwater flaw, there really is na clear-cut respansibility at this paint in time. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's even ta the paint that somebady will call yau and say, "There's an abandoned baat in this canal," and nobady has the autharity ta ga pull it out .of there. I mean, it's just really bizarre. Yau can't get the state. The county daesn't do it. It's wierd and a prablem. MR. BOLDT: We are moving ahead over an Haldeman Creek. It's in the planning stages. We'll be earning to yau soan with a contract. We talked about this a little bit earlier. It's gaing to, I guess, set same precedence. But we get calls, quite frankly, fram same .of these ather areas, as I'm sure you da, taa, especially same baating cancerns. Yau're gaing to hear fram a gentleman a little bit later in public camment, I think, that has a special cancern abaut Page 53 1'0, ~ -"..-.. August 1,2001 some .of that northern area. At this paint there's na clear cut authority as ta wha's respansible, whether it's my department .or same ather caunty department, the state, .or whaever. We need ta address that as a future challenge. Ta just give yau an example, this is what Haldeman Creek sauth .of Bayshare .or west .of Bayshore would laok like at law tide. This thing thraugh nature is just slowly accumulating sediments. Slawly but surely, I think Mother Nature tends ta try ta heal itself -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Uh-huh. MR. BOLDT: -- if there's an artificial cut. Here's Rock Creek west .of Airpart Road along Rock Creek RV Park that's in there. That is slowly but surely filling in. We've had calls from thase peaple wha wauld like ta have boats in and out .of there, and it's also the head waters .or the .outfall for Rack Creek. Again, there's na autharity. We're laaking far some guidance in the future, and we'll be back to you. Sa this is a "stay tuned." NPDES. I'm kidding, .of caurse, but this will be an yaur final exam. Yau need to know what NPDES is. It stands far -- same day and, .of course, I'm a little biased, but I think this is going ta be a hausehald ward. It stands for "natianal pollutant discharge eliminatian system," NPDES. It was created in a program under the Federal EP A Clean Water Act. Initially NPDES was aimed at wastewater pragrams .or sanitary sewers and wastewater treatment plants. Over the years they have literally spent billions and billions .of dallars on wastewater. Yau knaw, same of the classic examples -- yau knaw, our rivers got sa heavily polluted -- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Detrait. MR. BOLDT: -- in Detroit. In Cleveland, the Cuyahaga River -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: The Cuyahaga was an fire. MR. BOLDT: -- caught an fire it was sa badly palluted. Well, the billians .of dallars have paid .off. Rivers are re-established. Fish Page 54 "l ,." August 1, 2001 are maving back in them. Yau knaw, they're being cleaned up. Lake Erie is getting a measure of health. Sa wastewater is no longer the problem. Starmwater naw has been identified as the greatest source of pallution to our lakes and streams of the nation, and that's what NPDES is all about. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And that's true in .our caunty. MR. BOLDT: Very true. Phase I .of the stormwater NPDES pragram came into effect in 1991. It applied ta larger communities, which we did not meet the threshhald in the way they caunted our census. It was a very expensive, very intensive water-quality monitaring program. Same .of the communities literally spent millians .of dallars filing for their applicatian ta get their starmwater permits. Lee Caunty is .one that was in Phase 1. Weare in Phase II .of this starmwater permitting program. It became effective in December .of 1999 after a whale series .of delays and court issues. It applies ta same 3,500 smaller cammunities, including Collier Caunty. It's gaing ta encaurage communities to group tagether and apply far their starmwater discharge permit as ca-applicants. Weare co-applicants with -- we're the lead applicant for the City .of Naples and Marca Island. The Big Cypress Basin, Sauth Florida Water Management District, Flarida Department .of Transpartatian, and eight cammunity development districts are going to be our ca- applicants. There's same unique cammunity develapment districts, yau know, like Pelican Bay and Pelican Marsh and Lely Resort and sa an. Because they have their separate authority, they have ta be a separate applicant along with us. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What are we seeking permission ta da? MR. BOLDT: Discharge stormwater into the waters .of the nation. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: In other wards, aut inta the Page 55 August 1, 2001 Gulf. MR. BOLDT: Inta Naples Bay. All thase interior lagaons and bays are all cansidered waters of the natian. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And this is a pretty huge .or pretty significant event far Callier Caunty because -- where does .our water -- where does our starmwater ga? MR. BOLDT: It gaes all to the waters .of the nation. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: All .of it. MR. BOLDT: Right, right. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I mean, this is .our whole system right naw. MR. BOLDT: Phase II is gaing ta have an emphasis on preventian, and this is where we headed a little bit earlier. There's six principal parts .of the applicatian that have ta be addressed. There's gaing ta be a large emphasis placed an public educatian and .outreach and public involvement and participatian. As Cammissianer Caletta said, this is where we really need to wark with the general public and hameawners' associatians an the proper use of their herbicides and fertilizers and pesticides, water use, and the whale, yau knaw, scenario that invalves preventing pallution befare it reaches .our waters of the nation. Sa unlike Phase I, which has had heavy emphasis on manitaring, this is going ta go right ta the heart .of the issue. Sa we'll be spending a lot .of time in the future on this particular part .of it. Anather part is illicit discharge detectian and elimination. Quite hanestly, that's not gaing ta be a big prablem in Collier Caunty. In same .of the alder cammunities, cities, where they had cambined sewers with water -- starmwater and their sewage was intermixed, where they have industries that were discharging into their starmwater, yau knaw, they put a lat .of emphasis an finding aut where that was at and eliminating it. We dan't expect ta find hardly Page 56 "! August 1, 2001 any .of these illict discharges in Callier Caunty. Sa this whole preventian, pallution prevention, good hausekeeping, is gaing to be a part .of the pragram. I intraduced ta you earlier Steve Preston. Steve is our NPDES caardinatar far you in Callier County. He's gaing ta be in charge .of putting this all tagether, putting this applicatian tagether, warking with the cansultants we need to da this with, and he'll be caming to you thraugh .our program over the next several years with variaus pragrams we're gaing ta need to cammit to make this all happen. The ather parts of it are constructian site starmwater cantral ta keep -- particularly during the vulnerable times .of canstructian to keep sediments and the pallutian an the praperty and then follawing up with manitaring to make sure these facilities are maintained, yau knaw, forever so they da their jab. Our applicatian is due by March af2003. It saunds like a lang ways away. Actually, it's .only 19 manths, and it's caunting dawn. We've been patiently waiting far the agency to get their act tagether. There was a delegatian fram EP A, the Federal EP A, to the Flarida Department .of Environmental Pratectian. They're gaing ta be the permit administratar. They've just .organized and got a separate agency involved in that. Our gaad friend -- our starmwater advacate an the state level is Eric Livingston. If yau've ever heard Eric speak, he's a dynama an stormwater. He gives such a passianate plea far this sort .of thing. When yau get dane, yau want to stand up and salute-the flag sort .of thing. He's naw in charge .of this pragram, and he's gaing ta make it work. We're laoking forward to working with him. So this is anather CHAIRMAN CARTER: He's with -- I'm sarry. He's with-- MR. BOLDT: He's with the state agency. Steve cauld tell you the exact name .of that agency, but it's part .of the Florida Department of Enviranment Pratection, .one .of their bureaus .or departments. Sa Page 57 <Of ~ ,.- August 1, 2001 that was a "stay tuned." Y au're gaing ta hear mare and more abaut this aver the next manths and especially as we get dawn to where we need ta file .our application. Then there will be a review pracess, and there will even be a negotiating pracess with the state and EP A about what we're cammitting ta and the timelines. So we'll be looking farward to that. Another acronym you're gaing ta hear abaut is called TMDL -- and forgive me, Cammissioner Mac'Kie, but it doesn't mean "taa many dam lawyers." This pragram as it unfalds is gaing to be fraught with lawsuits and court challenges befare it all shakes itself out far this reason: The EP A has been sued ta fulfill the requirements of the Clean Water Act. The environmental agencies an a natianallevel went thraugh a whale series of caurt issues an them. I say, and excuse the expressian, this cauld be the tail that wags the dag far water-quality issues and even growth management in the future. It's going to invalve sa-called impaired water badies that are gaing ta be determined by the state. Again, Steve Prestan has been trying desperately ta get a gaad map that cauld shaw yau where these impaired waters are, and it's really hard ta came by. He's tried the agencies. He's tried the internet, and it's still pretty fuzzy. But we'll shaw yau what we think are gaing ta be the sa-called impaired waters. The state's gaing ta apply same numeric limits on the pallutants far these sa-called impaired waters, and then there's gaing to be an allocatian .of laads to the so-called cantributars. Naw, I'm gaing ta expand an that in just a minute. Here's the sa-called impaired water bodies an the map we gat. Yau can see it's pretty hard to tell where yau're at. By areas that we've identified sa far, the first .one is aut in the Tamiami Canal area, whatever that all means. That's up in the Big Cypress watershed. The next .one is Lake Traffard that's been Page 58 'f'l ..~ August 1, 2001 identified, the best we can tell, as .one of these impaired waters. Then there's the Imperial River, which is actually aver in Lee County, but we're sart .of an the fringes .of that, and then there is the Cacahatchee River, and then the Gordan River and Naples Bay. Well, that covers a lot ofterritary. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I was gaing ta say, do we have any water that didn't make the list there? MR. BOLDT: Very little. I guess you could extend it on dawn the coast .of Raokery Bay. Gee, I dan't know how they missed that .one. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Ifyau go north a little bit, you've gat Estero Bay. MR. BOLDT: Yes. All thase, right. It may well be an impaired water. We said in Collier Caunty. So, again, Flarida just settled a lawsuit and has agreed ta establish and implement these TMDLs for all these impaired waters in 13 years, which is a lang time frame for figuring aut what they've got ta da. They're gaing to restudy the waters an a rotatianal schedule. They started that study effort in the year 2000. You haven't heard a lat abaut it yet, but yau will. The preliminary list mare than doubled fram the initial .one that came aut. Again, we're trying ta get an tap of what all that means to us. Callier Caunty is ranked N a. 1 an the ratational schedule far study in the Sauth Flarida Water Management District. Sa we're gaing ta be the first area targeted ta identify and focus in an these impaired waters. This is a "stay tuned," but here's my -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, wait a minute, Jahn. I dan't knaw where they came up with -- you know, that really bothers me. I heard a similar presentation made ta the Sauthwest Flarida Planning Cauncil abaut same of these things that yau're talking abaut. When the Sauth Florida Water Management District laaks at us first, I think they primarily have a bigger prablem an the east caast, and why Page 59 "! ~ ,_dO.._ _, August 1, 2001 aren't they studying that? It laaks like we're becoming the sacrifice here sa that the facus is taken away fram prabably where they really shauld be studying. Sa I dan't know haw we fight back an this, but I think it's time that we stand up and bark a little bit. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, unless -- I mean, I dan't knaw. But unless it turns out ta be samehow some gaad news in that we get ta be -- yau knaw, we suffered fram the first Everglades study. Yau know, they're daing the Everglades restudy aver there naw because we didn't get included in that, sa we didn't have any informatian ta knaw whether .or nat we're taking care .of the enviranment on this caast. We dan't have any baseline data like they have aver on the ather caast. Maybe it's gaing ta be gaad news. Yau cauld laak at this as, yau know, they skipped us befare. It's about time we gat a little attentian fram the Sauth Florida Water Management District. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Maybe, but I don't trust them. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yau're bath right. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well-- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Probably. CHAIRMAN CARTER: I guess we really need clarificatian. MR. BOLDT: Okay. CHAIRMAN CARTER: What is the autcame of this? What happens ta us as a caunty? Sure, it would be great ta study it, find aut information, have a timeline in which ta make the carrectian list, but I dan't want to became the gaat. I don't want ta become the sacrifice here and be penalized because we already have 70 percent of .our lands awned by the federal and state gavemment and, you knaw, it goes on and an and an. Why all .of a sudden Collier Caunty? MR. BOLDT: I'm going ta valunteer that perhaps Clarence Tiers and I get tagether and try ta figure aut haw they established the priorities and if there's any appeal process thraugh the district, the Page 60 August 1, 2001 governing board, and thraugh Trudi Williams wha represents us aver an this caast. We'll see what we can da. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Wha happens to be the chairwaman naw. MR. BOLDT: Yes. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, as lang as we really knaw what the impacts are and what happens from this. MR. BOLDT: Okay. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yau know, I just dan't like being-- waking up .one day and they say, "Well, guess what? Y au're Na. 1 in the ratation." Thank yau very much. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But just like the question I asked an the last one abaut permitting, what this is is it's gaing to be measuring haw much pesticide, haw much pollution can be discharged into these identified waterways. And it wauld be gaod if we knew if we were doing taa much -- which, frankly, we knaw we're daing taa much -- and then maybe we cauld get same regulatians that wauld help us discharge less, and that has ta be good. I mean, .one way .of laaking at this and the way I'm laaking at it is, everybady else in Sauth Flarida is already messed up, and they're having to figure out haw ta restare it. We're the .only place left that could still be pratected and preserved and nat have ta ga thraugh restaratian, and I hope we get ta have that appartunity and nat be loaking at restoratian. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Cammissianer, I dan't disagree with that aspect of it. I'm always cancerned. Yau know, we control what flowed in and affected these areas. Like, Lake Traffard is nat affected .only by Callier County. It has to be affected by the sheetflows coming down aut .of Lee, and I dan't know haw much .of these other areas are impacted by that. I really want ta knaw more to make sure that -- yes, I want the gaad aut .of it, but I dan't want to get Page 61 "T'! ' August 1, 2001 inta a trap here, and that's my distrust .of -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I understand. CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- the district, my distrust .of the federal government, where they always came like, yau know, they're bearing gifts, and underneath the gift is a snake, so no thanks. MR. BOLDT: Like I mentianed earlier, I think yau're going to see a lot .of caurt challenges ta this as it unfolds because it's gaing ta have a great impact. It's nat just samething we're gaing ta have to deal with right away. But all these ather pragrams we talked abaut, particularly that NPDES Phase II, are gaing ta wark tawards this thing and work hand in hand with it. My limited understanding .of what this pracess is gaing ta be is -- first .of all, is the scientists are gaing ta determine the water bady carrying capacity .of the system. They're going ta determine by sampling .or monitaring what its current laad is. Then they're going to compute the surplus .or the deficiency of the daily laads. Then they're gaing ta allocate. I say "they." They are gaing to allacate the surplus to the watershed cantributors, yau know, the wastewater treatment plants, our starm sewers, whether it's residential, cammercial, galf caurses, recreatianal, agriculture. The whole gamut of cantributars ta the watershed will be given an allocation. If there's no surplus, that means there will be no new develapment. And as I said, this cauld became the tail that wags the dag even far grawth management. If we have a water bady that's impaired that's already at its maximum load, yau've gat to figure aut a way yau can either trade credits .or reduce the load fram samewhere else. Yau can imagine the mitigating and the bargaining that might go an. Yau might have ta go aut and buy agricultural land and take it aut .of praduction, get same load, and then build a galf course. You Page 62 T'! August 1, 2001 know, all these sort .of things have got to unfold. It's a "stay tuned" but -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It cauld be like TDRs. You knaw, we're talking abaut daing TDRs, transfer develapment rights. They'll be buying and selling these laad allacatians to be able to discharge. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Then yau find aut that your TDR will not be compatible with your laad allacation and -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Or yaur TELD. MR. BOLDT: I dan't knaw haw ta say this palitely, but my big fear is that these decisians are gaing to be made then an a state level by young biolagists that are two years aut of college that are put into these pasitians ta da the math, da the science, and make the allacatians and decide wha's gaing ta get what, and that's kind .of scary. MR. FEDER: And be able ta prove where it's earning from exactly and haw. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think we're dealing with that with FEMA toa. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It sounds exactly right. MR. BOLDT: Stay tuned. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yep. MR. BOLDT: Just same bragging rights here a little bit. We've gat a cauple recent innavative projects that we've dane that we wauld like ta tauch an real quickly. One of them is angaing as we speak. It's part .of this whole NPDES process and, yau knaw, water-quality impravements. There's evolving technalagy aut there .of same special contral structures that are able ta treat stormwater. This is a new area. There's really nat any gaod technalagy aut there that's faalpraaf to treat -- effectively treat large valumes .of stormwater much like you'd Page 63 PI August 1, 2001 run wastewater through a treatment plant. We have much more valume, and we dan't have the capability. This is .one .of the new products out on the market. It's a CDS unit, cantinuous deflection system. With your suppart and funding, we're installing this as we speak. It's just south .of U.S. 41 an Bayshare. It's meant ta take the water that came aut .of the Gulf Gate Shapping Center and all that urban raads runaff fram the raad and treat it before it discharges inta Haldeman Creek. We'll be manitaring that and probably sampling the water that goes in and aut .of it to see haw effective it is. This is .one of several brand names that's an the market. Again, I'm sart .of kidding, but if we cauld came up with a system that wauld wark and be effective and handle large valumes, I want to be a stackhalder. We'll be millianaires because this industry is just begging for it. CHAIRMAN CARTER: What was the name .of that? MR. BOLDT: This whole technalagy is just begging far same new technology ta came alang ta really break the barrier. The ather recent innavative project we just put in is we call them red valves .or flex valves. This particular one we're shawing here -- there are three .of them just recently installed. They're are at the intersectian .of U. S. 41 at Davis Boulevard and Sandpiper at the head waters. We call it the Boat Haven canal. Large storm sewers that came out .of Davis Boulevard and 41 underneath the pavement headwalls aut here and discharges inta the tidal water, and it's created a problem far us as far as tidal surge back inta these areas .of -- particularly the Gateway Triangle. We have debris gaing in there. We have all sorts .of prablems. So these are a flexible rubber neoprene valve that when there's na water flaw, they fald right up and let na water ga upstream. They prevent tide fram gaing upstream. With a little bit .of difference in elevatian an the upstream when we have water coming in, rainfall, they'll open up because they're rubber neaprene, they're flexible, and Page 64 1" August 1, 2001 they'll let the stormwater pass thraugh, and then when the water -- starmwater reduces, then they close back up again. Sa it's a check valve but a rather innovative type. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's very coal. Because a big prablem up there was that the saltwater wauld get in, and there was na way far the freshwater ta get aut. Sa naw this clases up, and it can't get in, and the system -- yau knaw, it would be full .of saltwater, and naw it won't be. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Goad. MR. BOLDT: Stay tuned. We have plans to da same .others .of these. There are already some .others involved. The transpartatian department .or part .of their roadway proj ects have already installed same of these tide flex valves. We have plans far some .others. Excuse me. They put same .of these CDS units in. We have same plans far same .of these other tide flex in other lacatians, and we are, like I said, trying to be innavative. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I ask a questian? MR. BOLDT: Yes. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: This CDS stuff, are they actually like filters or settling? I mean, haw daes it work? MR. BOLDT: Well, this is a cambination. This is -- the biggest part of this is gaing ta have a -- through the actian of the stormwater, it gaes thraugh in a whirling actian and will separate aut a lat .of the floatables, the paper cups and the debris and things .of that nature. There are also some ather techniques we can use. We call them, I think, emulsian logs. They're absarbing materials we can put in here that will absarb the greases and the oils and same of the pallution. Of course, we knaw we're building in a lang-term farever maintenance prablem when we do this sart .of thing. We're gaing ta have ta monitar these things. When they get full, we're gaing to have ta clean them aut. When these emulsion lags get heavy, we'll have ta Page 65 August 1, 2001 dispase .of thase. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's easier than trying to suck the oil .off the tap of the canal .or to get the paper cups. MR. BOLDT: Right. MR. FEDER: It definitely is. It's nat only easier, but alsa it's protecting same .of the water bodies. Also, as we get more and mare with the development cammunity and share same of their retentian areas, this is a way that we can assure them that the debris that might came .off of .our facility is nat gaing ta impact theirs and, therefare, have a greater .opportunity for us ta share same .of thase excess capacities that are in some of thase starmwater retention areas. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Gaod public/private partnerships working an a comman prablem. MR. BOLDT: Mr. Chairman, that's basically the end .of our discus sian .or presentatian. We have time naw far same public comments, and then if you wauld like ta wrap it up with any questians -- we have it programed abaut anather half haur if you wauld like ta take that time. MR. FEDER: We da have -- we da have three peaple that wish to speak. Is there anyane else that wishes ta? There's a farm here. Make yourselfknawn. Are you ready ta ga to this? CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think we aught ta ga ta public speakers, and then we can came back. MR. FEDER: Okay. My apologies if I mess up the names. I probably will, so I'll give an advanced palicy. First of all, Howard Matsan. Matsan is ta be faUawed by Les Lezak. MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Matsan, why dan't you just come up and have a seat right here. Use the micraphane. MR. MATSON: Right here? MR. OLLIFF: That's fine. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yeah. Have a seat at the table. Page 66 August 1, 2001 MR. MATSON: Okay. I'd be very happy to. Let me identify myself. I'm Haward Matsan. I live in the Lely Country Club property .owners' assaciatian. It's .one of the primary .ones that's affected by .our number one drainage project. Okay. In District 1 we have a triangle, and the triangle is formed by U.S. 41, Rattlesnake Hammack, gaing aut to 951, Callier Baulevard, and back up ta 41. Within that we have a mini triangle, and the mini triangle is the majar prablem area, not only an starmwater, but an sanitary sewers and raads. This mini triangle gaes fram Rattlesnake Hammack and 41 down ta St. Andrews Baulevard up ta 41 and back ta Rattlesnake. All inclusive in that .or included in that wauld be what's referred ta as Lely Manor. Okay. I came on baard in December of 1993. I moved in my hause an Palmetta Dunes Circle. I gat an the board .of LCCPOA in 1995. We had just completed getting the south county wastewater treatment plant an baard or started, and we had already started .our facus an the starmwater. Alang came a storm, Jerry, on August 24th, 1995. I can remember it well. There was 14.2 inches -- 14.25 inches .of rain in 16 haurs at my house, which is right in the middle. All right. The storm stapped at five o'clack. It was our anniversary. We went aut ta get samething to eat. We had na business daing it. I gat aut Augusta Boulevard by riding partly an the median out to Rattlesnake and back up, and the .only place that was .open was Stoney's Half Staff. We come back abaut 6: 15, and we came back 41. Okay. First .of all, I crossed what is referred ta as the Lely Drainage ditch. Okay. There is .one-half .or one part .of the twa ditches there. This particular drainage ditch at 6: 15 .or thereabauts was completely flaaded from side to side. In ather wards, the galf side was just as high as the inward side where the drain water was setting. Water meets its equal. Until it gaes dawn an the golf side, it Page 67 August 1, 2001 ain't going ta go down na place else. Then I came back dawn ta where there's a small farm fruit market there just belaw St. Andrews on 41. Okay. This is what's referred ta as the Lely Manar drainage ditch. All right. This taa was flooded, .only mare so, because this particular ditch had nathing more than a cauple wide culverts in it gaing acrass the same way. I maved back in, and I didn't get taa far up St. Andrews and my car stalled out. I blew the engine an it, $4,500 warth. It sucked up the water on St. Andrews, and I wasn't speeding, and the water wasn't that deep there. All right. To make a lang stary short, since that time the wastewater -- the sewer plant came an board in Navember .of 1998. Naw, along the backside of the sewer plant is alsa the Lely Manar drainage ditch right adj acent to it, and it flaods, and it floods, and it floads. Since that time there was one ather starm that produced seven inches .of rain and another .one with five inches .of rain back in '95. Until last week we haven't had -- .or the last cauple .of weeks we haven't had anything clase ta it. In the last cauple .of weeks, same .of the Augusta Baulevard gat clased off. Naw, immediately after this storm, Jahn Baldt was on baard. I worked personally with John Baldt, Commissioner Norris, and .others, and we got this starmwater project an the baaks. He was approved by the caunty ta establish as much as $13 millian an the boaks. This was in 1996. Cammissianer N .orris, he even went -- and there was na questian abaut it at that time __ I'll speed it up. There was no questian abaut it at that time that the homeawners, the praperty .owners, wauld pick up part .of the tab. He even went so far as ta have a straw pall in twa .or three precincts in there, and it was 50/50 percent; that included a lat .of nursing hame people that vated. Sa there was never a daubt that, you know, the cammunity wauld bear part .of the cast. All right. Now we came along and we want ta put an expansion in an the south caunty sewer Page 68 ... , ~ August 1, 2001 plant. I dan't think this can happen until the Lely Manar drainage ditch is praperly taken care of. Jim Mudd is a welcame individual on board. Jim Mudd, na doubt about it, will da a fine job. He's a retired Army engineer calanel. He's had experience. His last jab was aut on the Mississippi River an drainage. I dan't think Jim Mudd will have .one bit of prablem helping aut the caunty staff get funding or get permits and get funding from the Carps .of Engineers far coaperatian because he was .one of them in the Rack Island district. I think he can very capably deal with what the cancerns are .of the Fart Myers district or whatever yau call it as far as permitting. Naw, dawn bath of these drainage ditches there's also a very strong possibility that there's gaing ta have ta be bridge wark dane, but definitely very extended culvert wark an the East Naples drainage ditch. Okay. The widening .of 41 cannat proceed until there's a plan in effect that will deal with this. Sa my questian is -- let's put it an the tap priarity, and let's start it maving because this was gaing ta be five years ago. The .only twa individuals that were an baard at that time were John Baldt, wha was very welcome and still is very welcame. John Boldt at that time had one known assistant, and naw he's got a staff .of many. Rabert Wiley, he was working in what I call the lang-range planning. He was the one that I kept going to, and the stary was, "It's being permitted. Peaple are warking an it in permitting." This is five years later. N athing has happened. So I think that when the budget cames up far a hearing, I think you're gaing to hear a request that any possible expansians ta the south wastewater plant be put an hald until there's a Camprehensive Plan and that this stormwater is taken care .of first and that we forget abaut any extension on Santa Barbara Road (sic) which would da further ta .open up this drainage ditch that all comes dawn there. Everything cames dawn Caunty Barn Raad. The piping is underneath County Barn Road, and Mr. Baldt has gat that Page 69 August 1, 2001 cantrolled. But when the starm hits -- and it's nat gaing ta be 25 years because Hauston saw the same thing -- they are gaing ta be aut there with the hand pumps trying ta cantrol this water. I dan't think sa. The job has ta be dane. Thank yau. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir. MR. OLLIFF: John, why dan't yau just give us a little update an where we are in terms .of the timing on the permitting far that proj ect. MR. BOLDT: Well, as I mentianed earlier, the phase we're in right naw is responding ta the agencies and the questions they ask an our .original application. We're working real hard an that. We shauld have the respanses ready, I think, Rabert's tald me later this manth .or maybe the first part .of September. Then it puts the ball back in the caurt of the agencies ta either issue us a permit .or request same additianal infarmatian. At that paint we'll be negatiating with them, and if we feel like we need some help, yau knaw, at that level we'll be back to the baard far whatever it takes us so we can get those permits in a timely manner. MR. FEDER: I'll add ta that that this is not the first time that we respanded back to their questians an this praj ect. As a matter .of fact, there's been a repeated cycle .of doing that. We feel that we will be and have been answering the questions, sa we're gaing to be coming ta them in the beginning .of September, if yau will, nating that we feel we've answered the questions. It's important to mave forward. Sa that's the orientation we'll be taking. CHAIRMAN CARTER: What's the biggest black in this, Narman? MR. FEDER: You've gat the Carps and ta a degree the water management district permits as well, but the biggest issue is with the Carps. I think the gentleman's camments -- .obviously, ifMr. Mudd can be .of assistance, we will gladly accept that assistance. But far Page 70 August 1, 2001 right naw we are gaing ta came in, and I'm sure we'll probably get with Jim and make sure that he understands .our appraach with the Carps. We've answered yaur questians a number .of times. It's here. It's carrect. We need to move forward. MR. OLLIFF: Just ta put it in a little perspective, too, so the Baard's aware, if you'll recall a year aga when Jahn's budget was presented, we included the resaurces in Jahn's budget in the way .of staffing and same funding far engineering, design, and permitting wark primarily with the gaal .of getting a permit for this one particular project. There were a number of ather projects an the list, but this .one was obviausly .one that was an .our top-priarity list, and so in .our applicatian in late August or September .of this year we are laaking at it as if this is .our final submission, if yau will. MR. FEDER: But a big part of the issue is what John mentianed previausly. We're gaing after trying to get right now basically an aptian an same praperty. MR. OLLIFF: Right. MR. FEDER: But .one .of the biggest stumbling blacks interestingly enaugh has been what we're gaing to do ta pratect wetlands thraughout this area, and what is that mitigatian requirement going ta be, and haw on site within that sub-basin are we going ta address that mitigatian. So that's really what we're trying ta get past is what specifically is gaing ta be required ta get maving an daing what we need to do here. MR. OLLIFF: But at some paint if we continue ta feel like we're back in the same viciaus cycle .of, yau knaw, sending us back to the drawing boards ta start fram same scratch level, we're gaing ta elevate our effarts ta include getting palitical if we need to or daing whatever we believe is necessary. And it may require that we came ta yau and ask you ta fly ta J acksanville an an ace asian or even fly ta Atlanta .or da whatever we need to da in order ta get same face-ta- Page 71 --~------~"....~- ..~ August 1, 2001 face meetings to get that praj ect maving. CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think we aught ta use all the resources available, Tom, bath thraugh the agencies and palitical pressures, whatever it takes. A cambinatian usually .of those twa graups warking together does encaurage results and, of course, Jim Mudd knows that Carps system, I would say, inside and out. Sa I would think that we now have mare leverage ta bring ta the party. MR. FEDER: With Jahn and his falks and warking with the cansultants, I think it will give yau what yau need. And as to the credible respanse to thase questions, the technical issues have been addressed. We need ta then mave farward. MR. OLLIFF: And just so you knaw, taa, ifyau think yau're tired .of this praject and nat getting a permit, yau have na idea haw tired John and Rabert are -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I can imagine. MR. OLLIFF: -- ofnat getting a permit an this praject. MR. FEDER: Mr. Les Lezak. MR. LEZAK: First .of all, let me intraduce myself. My name is Les Lezak. Just a cauple .of abservatians -- by the way, I appreciate the appartunity to be able ta voice my views here. A couple .of .observations that I certainly, I guess, wasn't aware .of is haw camplex this whale system surely is. But certainly it has became very apparent that every action has a reactian. And as a self- proclaimed expert an the Cacahatchee River -- I say that .only because .of 21 years .of residency there -- na .one, I assure yau, in Callier County knaws that river better than I da. I am a self- professed fishaholic. My san is even a greater one. And there literally is na square inch that we dan't know. I'm aware that Jahn has, in fact, been up there and taken a small boat ride and seen the prablems .of the avergrawth .of pepper trees, etc., etc., on I guess what we would have ta call the southeastern partian of the river up near Page 72 August 1, 2001 Immakalee Road. I might suggest ta yau, hawever, that all .of the -- and I'm going back naw 21 years -- the flow .of that river has changed dramatically, and I say sa in the sense of haw deep it is, not only fram -- and I believe that I can paint out a few examples; when Immakalee Raad was widened and when the Callier's Reserve galf caurse was put in. I admit to you, I was very impressed with all the safeguards that were taken, the barriers, this, that, and the ather thing. How effective same .of these things are I questian because there is a silt sediment build up in this river that's gaing ta be a natural .occurrence. And because .of the pictures that I saw .of Rack Creek and Haldeman Creek, etc., etc., I can attest to the fact that the Cocahatchee has certainly got all those same prablems. I wauld alsa suggest that the nutrients that come from the golf caurses, from the sewer systems, all .of those sarts of things abviausly contribute ta the growth .of pepper trees and other maybe non-native vegetation as well as native vegetatian. They've all cantributed ta these things as they rat, as they fall, etc., etc. Samething -- I think it's safe ta say that we cauld all be in agreement here that there's a need far someane ta accept the responsibility far actian and maintenance .of these waterways, and it's already been expressed that no one at this point in time is willing to do that. Certainly both Cammissianers Carter and Coletta are aware .of anather situatian that I brought ta their attention regarding the dredging .of the area just an either side .of the bridge on 41 that has been caused by the driving .of the pilings. Well, I, toa, wauld like ta think that my children, my grandchildren, and my great grandchildren will be able to utilize this waterway fram a recreatianal standpoint. But maybe more impartantly fram an overall view I think we have ta address the fact that if the water flaw daes nat go naturally and the depth maintained, Page 73 August 1, 2001 yau may end up with a situation like we once had in Clam Pass where the mangroves die aut, etc., etc., and then that causes a whale new set .of prablems. I'm nat here ta try ta address that. I'm just painting out that thase things certainly exist. I was nat pleased ta see the impaired water. I would agree with the fact that there's impaired water and there is an absolute necessity for dredging. I will sit here and valunteer my time and my sa-called expertise ta anyane that wauld like ta ga far a boat ride. I'll be happy ta take them. I assure you that I can get us grounded with na trauble whatsaever. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I can do that. MR. LEZAK: Well, ta be hanest with yau, I'm probably the .only persan capable .of negatiating that river at law tide right naw. There is a health hazard, and I painted that aut ta bath of the commissianers that I've spaken ta. Hapefully, we da have some results. I dan't want ta spend my time going inta that because it's a separate issue, but I think rapid steps need to be taken ta imprave the flaw. Admittedly, there's a methad to my madness, and there's a bias ta what I'm- saying here. I'm cancerned abaut the Cocohatchee. Obviously it's been made apparent that all these ather places need to have attention taa. I will admit that I hope we became first, but -- and .only because .of the fact that I think we all can agree that the majar partion of the develapment that's naw taking place is in the narthern part .of the caunty. By just laaking at the map, yau can see that that particular water flaw is extremely impartant, but I can tell yau that the depth .of that water has certainly decreased. I would venture ta say -- and I apolagize far running aver -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: It's all right. MR. LEZAK: I would venture to say that prabably the water has decreased in depth by at least a faat, and in same cases it has became, well, virtually -- well, we will stap ta see that water. We Page 74 August 1, 2001 will eventually see nathing but mangraves. N at that that's necessarily bad, but unless the tidal flaw is in there, yau're nat gaing ta be able to maintain those either. I think that -- I guess the paint I'm trying to make here is that everything that we da and all the develapments that have taken place __ and gaadness knaws aver the last quarter .of a century of living here, I've seen plenty of them -- but they all have had an effect an this particular waterway as well as all the others in the caunty. I think we all need ta be aware .of the fact that we have ta laak much, much further inta the future when we're allawing far same .of these things. I dan't knaw how thase prajectians are dane, and I dan't know haw yau can put a time frame an them, but it's became apparent because .of what's happened that samething like that has ta be addressed befare future developments, i.e., prajects, whatever they may be, are addressed. I pray that somehaw there can be a meeting of the minds and samebady can actually assume the respansibility far same .of these things. Because as it was painted aut in the discussian by John earlier, yau can't find anybady ta accept respansibility far these things. I believe Commissianer Mac'Kie said that about the abandaned baat. Believe me, in regard ta trying ta find samebady ta accept respansibility to dredge after the bridge-widening praject, I dan't knaw if I can actually describe the frustratian I felt by trying ta contact how many organizatians ta accept that respansibility. Hapefully, we have actually solved that with the Department of Transpartatian at least accepting it for .one small partian .of the river, but there are many mare other areas that need to be addressed. I thank you for your time. Hap e fully , it was valuable infarmation. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, thank yau. Yau knaw, I would encaurage John and Norman ta continue to wark with yau. You knaw the river. Peaple like you can always pravide tremendaus Page 75 August 1, 2001 assistance to us as we loak at the integration .of wha is respansible and haw do we keep these navigable streams open and what needs ta take place. I willlaak to them to -- yau know, we'll find aut, and FDOT knows the portion that they have ta da, but let's try ta get the bigger picture. W e'lllaak to yau as a persan who knaws that thing inside and out, sa take gaod care of yaurself. MR. LEZAK: The phane -- the number's in the boak. Call. Thank yau very much. MR. OLLIFF: Thank yau. MR. FEDER: Kathleen Slebodnik. MS. SLEBODNIK: It's gaing ta take me a few minutes. MR. FEDER: Na prablem. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Take yaur time, please. MS. SLEBODNIK: I just had a little elective faat surgery here last week. I'm Kathleen Slebodnik. I live in Lely and have praperty. My husband and I have awned there since 1968. Long .overdue is the drainage situatian in Lely. I'm very glad ta see that this is No.1 on Jahn's priority list. There is still a lat .of land there, and I hape that we are able ta do this right. Impaired waters and the attempts ta ecalagically and enviranmentally make things right is important ta me as well. Even thaugh I want my feet dry after a rain, I want this whale area to be -- how can I say this -- almast a madel .of ecolagical balance sa that we dan't just ditch and drain. But it's a situatian that we can say we have taken the environment inta cansideration. The land is .open, and it's available. We know we're going to have large PUDs go in there. I was happy ta hear Cammissioner Carter talk abaut maybe these permits shauld be laaked at twice. Maybe there's __ because we are the receiving area far all the waters that come dawn inta Callier from narthern Callier County and dawn in there. Sa I hape that when we do this drainage project that it's ecalagically Page 76 August 1, 2001 balanced and it's an area that we can all be praud .of. Secandly, I have a question. I'm a baard member .of the East Naples Civic Associatian. And while I'm nat living .or working in the triangle, the triangle has been a particular area of interest .of mine. Sa my questian is, as .of naw the cammunity redevelapment agency has about three hundred eighty same thousand dallars in a trust fund that was put aside. Do yau see any .of this money being used far drainage, .or is that going ta be set aside far other praj ects? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, the recammendatians first have ta come fram the advisary baard. MS. SLEBODNIK: Carrect. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I can't imagine that -- I mean, yau knaw that in everything we've dane they've priaritized stormwater flaading problems as the No. 1 prablem in the area. That makes me think the answer ta the question is probably yes. On the ather side, there is -- in the mini triangle, which is where a great amaunt .of the flaading prablems are, there is talk of forming -- well, there has been farmed an associatian, and there's talk .of maybe an MSTBU in there far drainage and parking. Yau know, there's just a whale lat caaking in there right now that I don't want ta get in its way. But I can't imagine that same .of this maney isn't gaing ta -- that eventually, at least, this money isn't going ta ga far some stormwater impravements. Maybe that and maybe a partnering -- my persanal wish -- listen ta me lobbying to the advisary baard -- is that I wish that we could da same kind .of a partnering with the individual home .owners far maybe na- interest laans .or even in some cases grants far some fix-ups, same home fix-ups in the area, but primarily drainage. MS. SLEBODNIK: It is gaing to be primarily drainage. Okay. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's my impressian. MS. SLEBODNIK: Yeah, I'm just wandering. Ifwe laok at Page 77 August 1, 2001 these funds and how they're gaing ta be spent, it's kind .of a questian as ta whether .or nat this is gaing ta be included in the whole budget program, .or is it gaing ta be set aside far these capital impravements. It's needed, absalutely needed, because that's the number .one cancern .of the peaple who wark and live in the triangle area. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The ather thing I'm gaing to be watching for is -- and I knaw I wan't have to fight about this, but ta the extent that the CRA spends its awn money an drainage improvements and then the Caunty shauld, I hape some day, adapt a stormwater utility, and then it carnes aut .of a general caunty fund. Yau knaw, I want to be sure there's balance there and that the people in that district dan't pay dauble. MS. SLEBODNIK: Thank yau. Thase were my questions. MR. OLLIFF: Thank you. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank yau. MR. FEDER: I dan't have any ather slips at this time. Is there anyane else that wishes ta speak? (No respanse.) MR. FEDER: Jahn. MR. BOLDT: That cancludes .our presentatian. I sure thank yau far the time you've given us ta put on this little dog-and-pany shaw. It was an exciting praject far us. I campliment my staff again for all the hard wark they did and hope you gained fram it. I thank you for yaur indulgence. MR. OLLIFF: If nothing else, I hape yau walk away fram here recognizing the camplexity of starmwater management in this caunty and recognizing the magnitude of the size .of the program if yau laak at it cauntywide like Jahn has ta. When we bring ta yau a series .of these capital projects each and every year, recagnize what a small bite at a big apple we are taking, and recagnize that we're going ta need a consistent level .of suppart in order to make a real dent in Page 78 August 1, 2001 starmwater issues in this caunty. We can continue ta run araund and Band-aid little neighbarhaad ditches and thase little improvements responding to the phane calls that yau get, but until we actually start making some seriaus impravements an systems, we're nat going ta make any real change. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, Tam, I really appreciate it. I think, Jahn, as usual, yau da an excellent jab, and this is very, very infarmative. It just painted aut ta me .one mare time the need for integration and tatal planning of everything that we da far the cause and effect .of the relatianships. We have so much knowledge in this cammunity that I hape we cantinue ta outreach, pull those peaple into our pracesses. And as Tam is saying, we knaw what you need, and I don't want ta -- J ahn, I guess I really dan't want to keep laoking at yaur budget in isolatian. I want to laak at it as an integrated part .of transpartatian and the other planning processes here sa that what is __ yau knaw, what are the causes and effects, are yau getting what yau need, and let's make sure that we're all on the same page. MR. BOLDT: Okay. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Sa I really appreciate what yau did this morning. MR. BOLDT: Thank you. Stay tuned. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Stay tuned. MR. OLLIFF: There's na ather questians fram any .of the ather cammissianers? MR. COLETTA: Na. I just wanted ta camment that at the very beginning we tauched on the fact that in the past this has been crisis driven. MR. OLLIFF: Yep. MR. COLETTA: I think this cammissian has been very proactive in taking problems that are far aut and warking an salutians that are far range, and that's .one of the things why .our budget is up Page 79 August 1, 2001 this year. It's the fact that we are taking the responsibility ta pratect .our enviranment and the infrastructure mare sa than has been dane in the past. MR. OLLIFF: Absalutely. CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Thank you all for being here. Have a great day, and we'll see yau at the next warkshap. We're adjaumed. ***** There being no further business for the gaad .of the Caunty, the warkshap was adjaumed by order of the Chair at 12 p.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS . . ) ~ ' . I . . . I . f . . . '..:'" (:, .-::.". ~- JAMES . CARTER, Ph.D, CHAIRMAN - ,"\ '.' ' A::ttEST~":<<' '~: ~bW'iGHTE:'BRQCK, CLERK 'Att...t III t"}~_9, <" sJ ~lt~r>~:"':l~,." . '" ", 6 :t~;~~~.0-. These minutes approved by the Board on 1-1/- () ( , as presented /' .or as carrected TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING, INC., BY MARGARET A. SMITH, RPR Page 80