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CAC Minutes 06/27/2001 RJune 27,2001 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER COUNTY COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE June 27, 2001 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Coastal Advisory Committee met on this date at 1:40 p.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building F of the Government Complex, Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRPERSON: Gary Galleberg Anthony P. Pires, Jr. David Roellig John P. Strapponi Robert B. Stakich Robert Gray NOT PRESENT: James L. Snediker Ashley D. Lupo William Kroeschell ALSO PRESENT: James Mudd, Public Utilities Administrator Roy Anderson, Public Utilities, Director of Engineering Allen Madsen, Inspector Jane E. Eichhorn, TDC Coordinator Page 1 June 27, 2001 Jacqueline Hubbard Robinson, Assistant Coumy Attorney Jon C. Staiger, Ph.D., City of Naples Natural Resources Manager Page 2 June 27, 2001 CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Okay. We'll call to order the June 27th, 2001, meeting of the Collier County Coastal Advisory Committee. We've got some absent members today. Why don't we just do a voice roll down at the end starting with Mr. Gray. MR. GRAY: Bob Gray here. MR. PIRES: Tony Pires here. MR. STRAPPONI: John Strapponi here. MR. STAKICH: Bob Stakich. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Gary Galleberg here. MR. ROELLIG: David Roellig. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: And the remaining members are absent today as we start. Mr. Anderson, first we have TDC overview. MR. ANDERSON: Yes. We -- at the last meeting, it was requested that TDC be invited to come here to explain the relationship of their program and our program and how the funding fits together, so Jane Eichhorn has been gracious enough to -- and Jackie Robinson, their attorney, have been gracious enough to agree to give us a presentation this -- this afternoon. So I would just mm it over to -- to them. Jane. MS. EICHHORN: Good afternoon. For the record, Jane Eichhorn. I'm the TDC coordinator for the county. I gathered some information for all of you today; some statistical information, the revenue that is generated each month from the tourist development tax. If you flip to the first section of your pamphlet ... MR. MUDD: Does everybody have one now? MS. EICHHORN: This information is the statistical information that is generated each month by the tax collector. The revenue is received in at the tax collector's office and then is sent to the county, and the data is faxed to our office, and I generated this Page 3 June 27, 2001 statistical information. And this is up until, I think, May. Yes, the revenue collected is up until May. We've projected about $9.2 million in revenue this fiscal year. You can see on the third page of that chart -- that is the monthly revenue by area -- Naples, City of Naples, generates approximately 28 percent; Marco Island, about 26 percent. Collier County at this point is 45 percent of the revenue. Immokalee is zero right now. Everglades City is 1 percent, and there's other. And other-- the other category is late fees, penalties, and things like that. The next page is where the revenue comes from, where it's generated from. As you can see, the majority of the revenue is generated from the hotel/motel industry. At this point there's -- $5 million have been generated from the hotel/motel industry. The next section in your booklet is the new ordinance, the new TDC ordinance, that was approved approximately two weeks -- two to three weeks ago. We used the $9.2 million that we estimate being generated this year and multiplied it by an average of 5 percent. We used the 5 percent increase -- that is approximately what it's increased every year -- to give us $9.66 million for next year. And you can see the breakdown with the new percentages. 100 percent of the 1 percent will always go to beach renourishment. That will never change. And one hundred -- or 50 percent of the 2 percent will go to beach renourishment. That's the portion that has changed. It used to be 70 percent. Now we reduced it to 50 percent. Fifty percent will go to Category B and C, which breaks down to 23.236 percent; Category B, which is advertising promotion and special events. Category C-1 is county-owned museums, which is 19 percent, and C-2, which is other county museums not -- not owned and operated by the county, 7.764 percent, which totals the $9.6 million for next year. Page 4 June 27, 2001 And you've already seen the ten-year plan that Jim Mudd has presented to you at your last meeting. This is the -- that is the ordinance that went to the board. Then next -- next section in your pamphlet is the state statute. That basically gives you the guidelines that you can follow how the revenue is spent, gives you all the guidelines for using the tourist tax. Jackie, feel free to jump in anytime -- MS. ROBINSON: Okay. I'll wait. MS. EICHHORN: -- you're comfortable. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I just -- I wanted to ask. Is there a functional reason to make the -- to state things as 100 percent of 1 percent for Category A and then 50 percent of the next 2 percent, because that's 1 1/2 percent? Why -- why is it broken out that way? MS. ROBINSON: It's broken out that way -- I can go into that once Jane finishes -- CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Okay. MS. ROBINSON: -- if you don't mind, so I won't CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Thank you. MS. ROBINSON: But I'll explain that to you when I come up there. There are taxes that are levied -- MS. EICHHORN: The next section in your pamphlet is the Tourist Development Council. That is the list of all the tourist development advisory committee. I put that in there because I wanted you, if you had any questions, to feel comfortable in calling the TDC members for any reason if they -- when your items go to them, you can call them, write them. The last section in the book is the tourist development ordinance creating the Tourist Development Council. There's actually two ordinances in here. 92-16 (sic) is a little further back, and 2000-44. The 92-18 is the original ordinance that created the Tourist Development Council. The Tourist Development Council reports Page 5 June 27, 2001 their recommendations -- or makes recommendations to the Board of County Commissioners. On 2000-44, which is the beginning of that, we amended that to allow a rotation between Marco Island, the City of Marco Island, and the City of Everglades so that there would always be one member from each one of them rotating in the council. If there -- if Immokalee becomes the City of Immokalee and they want a city member on the board, then they will fall right into the rotation also of that, so there will always be someone representing them. If you have any other questions -- that's basically the pamphlet here. Jackie's going to go in with you the connection between your advisory committee, the tourist development committee, and the Board of County Commissioners, how you all fit together. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Thank you. MS. ROBINSON: Good afternoon. It's nice to appear in front of all of you this afternoon. For the record, I'm Jacqueline Hubbard Robinson, assistant county attorney for Collier County. In your handout, you have a little bit in there. You have a copy of Florida Statutes 125.0104. If you could find that, it would be helpful. Now, to answer the question of the gentleman regarding why we separate the -- the 100 percent of one tax and then a portion of another tax, this statute allows a county to impose, first, a 1 or 2 percent tourist development tax. Collier County imposed a 2 percent development tax. Then after three years of imposing that tax, the county can impose a second one-cent tax, which Collier County also did. And when the one -- the additional one-cent tax is imposed, it's imposed for a specific purpose. And in this case it was imposed for beach restoration and cleanup and that sort of thing, so it's limited in its use to just beaches, so 100 percent of that tax must all -- always be dedicated to -- to the beaches in Collier County. So you'll always see 100 percent of the 1 percent tax and then a portion of the 2 Page 6 June 27, 2001 percent tax because they're actually two separate taxes. Okay? CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Uh-huh. MS. ROBINSON: And that's provided in the statute on page 2 of 23 in the handout I gave you at the top in subparagraph D. And what Collier County has done, it has taken the state statutory scheme that's set forth in this handout and adopted it to Collier County in the Ordinance 2001-31, which is an amendment of the original ordinance. And I believe you have a copy of that. Is that in the handout? CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Yes. MS. ROBINSON: No. I -- I mean our county ordinance. That should be in the handout also. The important purpose -- the important section of this ordinance, for your purposes especially, would be where you've already been discussing which is the -- the plan. The state statute requires -- and that's -- on the second page of the ordinance you'll see tourist development plan. Under the state statutory scheme, the county must develop a tourist development plan, and it's sort of like a charter on how you send these tax revenues. And these revenues can only be spent pursuant to the plan, and the plan must be consistent with the statutory uses of the tax. Category A is the category of uses that pertain to this advisory board, and that is defined as beach park facilities, beach improvement, maintenance, renourishment, restoration, and erosion control, including pass and inlet maintenance, shoreline protection, enhancement, cleanup or restoration of inland lakes and rivers to which there is a public access. Now, 100 percent of the 1 percent tax is dedicated to Category A. So there are a number of things that can be done under Category A as they pertain to beaches, but only those precise matters really -- these are the only matters for which that 1 percent of the tax can be spent and 50 percent of the 2 percent of the Page 7 June 27, 2001 tax. So all of the duties of your advisory board should pertain to the Category A uses of the tax. Now, under the ordinance that created your board -- and I don't know if you have a copy of this ordinance or not, but it's 2001-3. If you don't have a copy of the ordinance, we will certainly provide you with a copy, the ordinance that created the Coastal Advisory Committee. MR. GRAY: I think we got that the first meeting. MR. MUDD: The first meeting we gave that to them. MS. ROBINSON: Good. In Section 1 it sets forth why you were created, and in Section 2 it tells you what your functions are. Essentially you were created to assist the Board of County Commissioners in the methods by which it will establish beach erosion control and inlet management programs within all of Collier County, whether incorporated areas or unincorporated areas. Section 2 sets forth the functions of your board. The Tourist Development Council, which is the council essentially that you will make recommendations to, has the overall responsibility for advising the county commission on how to spend all of the tourist development tax funds according to a plan that was adopted with their recommendation. But this board is limited to the Category A expenditures, and so your function basically is to advise the Tourist Development Council of how those funds in Category A should be spent. And I think it goes without saying that the maintenance and preservation of the beaches in Collier County are of the utmost importance to everyone that lives here and -- and to the whole country, really, because the beaches are so unique and incredibly beautiful. And so your task is a very heavy one in terms of the responsibility that's being placed upon you. So in that Section 2 there are five sections of duties and Page 8 June 27, 2001 responsibilities of your board. And -- and so you would have to identify certain areas of the beaches and determine where money should be spent in erosion control, try to develop a program of long- term erosion control, because that is a major problem, by the way, in Collier County, which I'm sure you're -- you're very familiar with that. Marco Island in particular is having a tremendous problem with beach erosion, and the county has implemented a number of plans in an attempt to -- to actually resand the beaches. But this is an ongoing problem, so that's one of them. The second one is prioritizing capital improvement plans. There is, as you know, a ten-year plan for capital projects pertaining to the beaches, and I think that those have been -- I've been told that you've been made aware of what those are also. So you're fairly familiar with the projects that the public utilities department intends to implement as they pertain to the beaches. And those will come up, and new ones will be presented to you, and you'll have to make a decision on whether to recommend the implementation of those to the TDC. The TDC will then examine those and-- and-- and rely, to a large extent, I would presume, upon your recommendation and then make a final recommendation to the on how these funds should be spent. the input on these issues by forming Second-- thirdly, there may be groups that are performing a similar performing, and our job as staff will Board of County Commissioners So this is an attempt to enlarge the board that you're a part of. other regional and statewide function as you are -- as you are be to bring this information to you to see if you want to coordinate any of your activities with other regional organizations or statewide organizations who may have the same purpose, that is, beach restoration and erosion control and beautification, which is your major duties. Four, you are -- you have the responsibility of helping the Page 9 June 27, 2001 county outline its coastal zone management policies, which will obviously have a long-term, long-range effect on the status and state of Collier County beaches. Five -- finally, innovative proposals will be presented to you from the staff and also from the public at large. So this is -- this is the -- the task as it's been presented to us, and as it's being presented to you today. So you have a monumental task. You have a tremendous amount of responsibility in terms of advising us, Collier County staff, on how we are to proceed in maintaining the beautification of our beaches. Are there any questions? CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Go ahead. MR. PIRES: Can I? CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Sure. MS. ROBINSON: Tony? MR. PIRES: Jacqueline -- good afternoon. How are you? MS. ROBINSON: Okay. MR. PIRES: Good to have you here in front of us. MS. ROBINSON: Thank you. MR. PIRES: Just one question on the functions and duties and roles of-- of this advisory committee -- MS. ROBINSON: Uh-huh. MR. PIRES: -- in Section 2-D, which was the fourth, sort of, category of-- of the advisory role of this coun -- committee, in the last two lines mentions outlining the coastal zone management policies and coastal and estuarine habitat protection and restoration. Now, do we end up getting involved in any of the processes? Say the county was to go back through the process of reevaluating the Comprehensive Plan and some of its elements, including the conservation and coastal management element. Do we have an advisory role with regards to that? Do we have an advisory role with Page 10 June 27, 2001 any Land Development Code regulations that have impacts on the beach and estuary and coastal areas such as the recent vehicles-on- the-beach issue that came up during the last round of the Land Development Code? MS. ROBINSON: Right. On this -- MR. PIRES: I want to know how broad or how narrow the scope of that is. MS. ROBINSON: Well, you know, I -- I really believe that the possibilities exist for this group to have a role in those decisions. And I think the manner in which you will participate in decisions that appear to be zoning matters or whatever will depend on how this group evolves as tasks are brought to you. I would also think that if there are things that obviously concern you as a citizen and not as a - - you know, as an attorney but as a citizen of Collier County you would have the ability to bring those issues to staff to bring as an agenda item for your board. In other words, I think this is going to be an evolving process of exactly what you wind up doing. I don't see any parameters that limit your ability to participate in those issues. Those issues are obviously quite relevant to what you're -- you're doing here. But your main function, as I see it, is to determine, to a large extent, recommendations that will be passed on to the TDC. The TDC's function is a bit more limited in terms of what is set forth in the ordinance as to what it can and cannot do. And it primarily exists to advise the county on the expenditure of the tax funds. Your -- and which is pretty interesting that you raise this issue because the -- I don't know how you would exactly phrase it, but your task as set forth in the ordinance that created you is a bit broader in many ways than the ordinance that created the TDC, so it -- I think it's going to be an evolving process. MR. PIRES: Thank you. Page 11 June 27, 2001 MS. ROBINSON: Are there any other questions? CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: One question, just looking back how does -- how does the -- the enabling legislation for this committee compare to -- to the tasks that were undertaken by the beach renourishment committee which did similar things but then was replaced by this group? MS. ROBINSON: I'm -- you know, the beach renourishment committee existed, unfortunately for me anyway, prior to my tenure here in Collier County. I haven't been here quite a year yet, so I'm not very familiar with what they did, although my understanding is that their prior task was similar to -- to what yours are now. Am I correct with that? MR. MUDD: I would say -- Jon, you-- you've been on it longer than just about anybody, and I think you got a better handle on that one as far as that question is concerned. Go ahead. MR. STAIGER: Yeah. It -- they're comparable. The beach committee evolved into getting -- or -- or it -- it gradually got more involved in things that were somewhat astray from the original charge, which was to look at, you know, do we need beach restoration and, if so, how do we pay for it and what's the -- the logical way to accomplish it. And I think that's one of the -- one of the problems that the committee had is it got involved in -- in things that were sort of far afield, such as discussions of public access and the like, which are really not, you know, relevant to -- to the erosion control issues and how you address it. And initially the charge to that committee was -- was to look at, you know, is there a need for beach restoration and, if so, you know, how is it funded. And that was early on in the -- in the late '80s and early '90s before the tourist tax was set up. And -- and -- and then once the tourist tax was established, then the issue was -- was do we do it as a single-phase project, or do we phase it over time given the Page 12 June 27, 2001 -- the prognostications on revenue. And, also, they spent a lot of time looking at different technologies for doing -- doing the actual beach restoration project. And they settled on -- on the dredge and fill as being the most appropriate because of the need we had for a considerable volume of new sand in the system. And -- and they -- but they kind of digressed from that after the beach restoration project got completed in '96, and then when that rock in the -- rock-in-the-beach issue came up, they -- they spent a great deal of time arguing about the rocks. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Well, it sounds then like -- and partly because of the passage of time, there -- there were different mandates. They both related to the coastal line and all that -- MR. STAIGER: Yeah. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: -- but theirs was a specific activity, some of which was funded by TDC eventually, whereas ours is really taking an estimated availability of funds and determining how they'll be spent. MS. ROBINSON: Yes. And they will -- you will probably need to remember that it -- that information that you need, as it pertains to any of these issues, can be made available to you by Collier County staff. MR. ROELLIG: I might add also that we got involved in the -- the beach parking and that sort of thing, which I guess has now been -- now falls under the parks and recreation advisory committee -- MS. ROBINSON: Yes. MR. ROELLIG: -- whereas before we discussed that at the beach renourishment committee as far as parking structures and parking availability, access issues of that type. MS. ROBINSON: Right. I think the best -- you know, the best thing to do is to take your mandate which is brand new and fresh and just use that going forward and not be tied to what occurred in the Page 13 June 27, 2001 past. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Oh, certainly we will. I was just looking for a little context. MR. ROELLIG: I think we're focused here a little more on beach issues as opposed to whether or not there should be two, three stories of a parking structure or that sort of thing. MR. MUDD: I -- let me add just a little bit into this -- just a little bit in the process and -- everybody tried to do their best, no matter what the position was or no matter what the old committee was. They were doing what they thought was the best possible process. I will tell you that the Tourist Development Council won't do anything with your dollars unless you agree to it. Okay. That is the first thing in the budget this year. "What did the CAC say?" And I said, "I really don't want you to approve this until they approve it or make it subject to their approval," and they did -- they approved it on Monday when I presented it, basically, as -- as you approved it prior to that. And the Board of County Commissioners did it subject to the TDC approving it subject to the CAC approving it. So I guess what I'll say to you is you have a big input. And if you, on a long-term plan, decide, hey -- and it -- that was a $4.7 million program, if you remember-- if you decide, "Hey, the projects next" --"2003, okay, only require 3.2, but in 2004 we really need to go in there with 3 -- $3 million extra of what it is," you basically say, "Hey, this is why it's this way this year. And, oh, by the way, next year our plan says that it has to be significantly increased." And they pay attention to that process. And this way you won't get those dollars diverted someplace else, as long as you have a plan for that process. And -- and I'm not too sure -- and I might be speaking out of turn, and I don't -- I don't mean to cast a shadow on anything. But Page 14 June 27, 2001 I'm not too sure we were that forthcoming in the past to the TDC and to the program, okay. That -- that's just my take on it from what I've been told. And I think we have a bright future because if you can lay that plan out and that process and we can do the best we can with our crystal ball to foresee some things that need to transpire, I think we can do a load of good for Collier County with the dollars that we get that are allocated to us in this process. And -- and the ten-year plan that we -- that we put together, based on what you -- what the last beach renourishment committee had for a ten-year plan and -- and some other things that we've added, like putting more upland sand on the beach, when we put that together, we wanted to make sure that the new allocation of funds, you know, that 2 percent, the 2 pennies, what our percentage would be of that, we wanted to make sure that we had enough allocated to get the job done. And you still have some discretion, some movement in that process, and we'll talk about that a little more. But I really think you have a lot of power. I think there's a whole lot of people looking to this committee to -- to give them the direction on the projects that should be undertaken. And -- and there's no other organization out there, except special interests, that will tell you everything that they need yesterday that -- that's willing to put it altogether in that -- in that plan in order to lay that -- that function out. And it's a significant function. We're talking about $5 million worth of dollars that everybody wants, and -- and I -- I think it's a -- I think it's a pretty good charter. It gives you lots of latitude. If you wanted to talk policy and this committee had the -- was into the finesse side of, you know, what things should be built and where the Land Development Code's a little bit off, you've got-- you've got all the wherewithal to get into there and elbow it and say, "Hey, we don't like this because it doesn't make sense, and we want it Page 15 June 27, 2001 to be changed" and to go forward with that recommendation. And that would be -- I think people would be joyful if you'd do that, okay. They'd welcome it with open arms because nobody really gets into it except the special interests. And then the Board of County Commissions get bombarded by the special interests, and it's tough to figure out where the wheat and the chaff is and who's just giving you their side of the stow. Then all of a sudden you pass it. Then you find out, well, that wasn't such a smart deal. And I think we've seen that a couple of times this year already where they've gone back and said -- after they've thought about it and said, "You know, we shouldn't have made that decision." And I think they'd look at a -- at a committee that had looked at that process, had looked at all the pros and cons to it, and -- and was willing to give their advice to the Board of County Commissioners; I think they would welcome that with open arms. MS. ROBINSON: Right. Miss Eichhom just reminded me that the TDC is waiting for your input, and they will be relying quite heavily on your recommendations. MR. GRAY: I would like to add -- Bob Gray for the record. This is a new committee. We're in transition, and -- and we realize that. I think as we go forward we'll be a more proactive group, whereas to date we've been kind of a reactive group. But I think as we all get up to speed on what's going on with the beaches and what needs to be done and we may have public input to us as a committee, we'll become more proactive, whereas in three meetings we've been reactive. But that's fine. I mean, I think we all realize that we are in transition, and that's probably the only purpose we could serve during the last couple of months. MS. ROBINSON: I agree. Yes. MR. STRAPPONI: Miss Robinson, I have a question. Miss Eichhorn was certainly gracious enough to point out the TDC Page 16 June 27, 2001 members with their phone numbers and extended an invitation for us to feel free to contact them at any time. My question is in regard to the Sunshine law; we were briefed on it last meeting. And I think I have a pretty good understanding on intercommunication amongst the committee members. I'd like to know how that Sunshine law impacts on intracommunication of-- intracommunication with other committee members. MS. ROBINSON: Right. You mean, for instance, your communication with the TDC members? MR. STRAPPONI: As opposed to members of the CAC. MS. ROBINSON: Yes. Well, the -- the Sunshine law obviously applies to both boards, and there's nothing to prevent you from conversing one on one with a member of the TDC board, since you're separate boards. If, however, you engage in a conversation with more than one member of the TDC or more than one member of this board with one member of the TDC, then you will be subject to the sun -- having your conversation open to the sunshine. And also, by the way, the Sunshine law prevents a serial kind of communication. So, you know, if you wanted to call one commissioner and ask their opinion on an issue that's going to be before them, then call another one and maybe tell that one what the other one said, it would still apply. So I would be cautious. There's nothing to stop you from talking one on one. But if there's more than two -- there's more than one, two of you, from either board, then you're going to be subject to the sunshine. And -- and -- and bear in mind that you're probably going to be under intense scrutiny anyway because you will be making recommendations on a very substantial sum of money each year that has to be spent so ... MR. STRAPPONI: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Any other questions or comments? Page 17 June 27, 2001 (No response.) CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Thank you very much. MS. ROBINSON: Okay. You're welcome. Oh, and also, if you have any questions and you -- and you feel -- of a legal nature, please feel free to give me a call in the county attorney's office, and I'll be happy to help you out to the extent that I'm able to. MR. MUDD: Thanks, Jane and Jackie. The next -- subject to your questions, the next item on the -- on the agenda under No. 2 is the physical (sic) year '02 work plan, and - - and Roy's going to talk about that a little bit. MR. ANDERSON: Yes, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. The -- as was indicated, the -- we -- we -- we did attend the meeting with the TDC on Monday, and we're happy to report that we got full approval of the entire $4.7 million that we requested for the FY '02. And I have a sheet, a handout here, just to summarize the -- summarize the changes. And they're all basically what we had discussed. There were four items which -- which were affected out of our total of 13 projects, if you recall. The first item, No. -- the first item was 280,200; that was the project management. That was the increase of sixty-six nine. The third item was the -- the sea turtle monitoring program. That had an increase of $5400. And the -- No. 5 was the -- the beach-cleaning operation, and that involved a reduction of $4100. In connection with that, you may recall there was also a question at our last CAC meeting whether there was double counting of a particular item, and we did check that, and there was no double counting. Those were two separate items which unfortunately have exactly the same dollar -- dollar figure, so just wanted to let you know about that. And the last item was the No. 13, the Clam Pass project. That had a decrease of $33,200 for a net overall bottom-line increase of $35,000. Page 18 June 27, 2001 So the final as approved by the TDC and the CAC -- and, I might add, is consistent with the city's sub -- or the county's submittal to the -- to the budget -- budgetary process, the approved amount is $4,752,000. So that basically constitutes the -- the '02, FY '02, budget. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Thank you. MR. PIRES: If I may, Mr. Chairman. Just real quick, Roy, on the Pelican Bay, the Clam Pass, is that Clam Pass monitoring and dredging together? MR. ANDERSON: Yes, it is. MR. PIRES: And I guess you mentioned a number of two oh two three hundred. Maybe it's just a matter of I'm suffering from having lots of different sheets. But I guess initially was that proposed at two oh five one hundred? My sheet didn't indicate that. MR. MUDD: Two oh two three hundred. That's No. 13. And what -- what happened is we were able to get some of that work done this year. MR. PIRES: Okay. I have another sheet that was handed out at one of the meetings that has two oh -- the first handout, I guess, the first packet we had, it was two oh five one -- MR. ANDERSON: Okay. That was one of the -- one of the very early, early submittals. MR. PIRES: Then it reduced down to two oh two three hundred MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. ANDERSON: Yes. PIRES: -- and then further because -- ANDERSON: That's right. PIRES: -- from the activities done this fiscal year. ANDERSON: That's right. Yes, yes. MR. PIRES: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Anything else? Page 19 June 27, 2001 (No response.) CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Okay. MR. ANDERSON: The next item is the -- is the ten-year plan which was also submitted to the TDC. And this is basically-- as we described last meeting, it's -- it's kind of a reformatting of these basic projects. And we made -- we basic -- we've made the changes in this table to -- to reflect those projects, so it's pretty much as -- as discussed last month except now the total bottom line is -- for FY '02 it comes to nine million three ten nine hundred, and the total revenues are nine million three ninety-three eight hundred. That's the gray area down at the bottom which reflects the new change in the -- in the revenues we have to deal with. And then the rest running on out follows suit. So this is just primarily to update your information on the latest ten-year plan as approved by the TDC. MR. MUDD: Do you want to talk to them a little bit, Roy, about what's in those particular items? Here, use my sheet. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. MR. MUDD: A previous comment from the -- from the committee was, "Well, how does this relate to the budget, and where are those numbers at?" And -- and what I had Roy and -- and Tom Wides, my -- my finance officer, do is to break those out a little bit. And he'll talk about them. MR. ANDERSON: Yes. The first item is the needs -- well, the first-- the first item, inlets, that's all fairly -- that's all straightforward. There's a one-to-one correspondence on the items on our list and -- and-- and these items. But now it starts to get a little interesting when we get into B. B, beach renourishment, l-A, as you'll see on the sheet that Jim just passed out, that's a total of three fifty-one seven. And in terms of this translation, it's basically part of the sea turtle monitoring program which is D-3. You can just eliminate the D, and it's the third work Page 20 June 27, 2001 order, you know, the third item. It's the sea turtle monitoring portion of one oh seven five and the portion that relates to Collier County and Naples versus the entire area. And then we have CCBR -- BR which is the Collier County beach renourishment, D-8 or number work -- Item No. 8 for 244,200 for -- so that's the breakout of the three fifty-one seven. Any questions on that particular item? (No response.) MR. ANDERSON: If not, the next one was B-l-B, which is the engineering monitoring for the City of Marco Island. And there we have Item No. 3 which corresponds to the sea turtle monitoring portion for Marco Island, which comes out to twenty-six nine. And then we have the Marco Island segmented beach mon -- segmented breakwater monitoring, No. 8, for $27,000. And then we have the Marco Island beach restoration for $75,000. And then we have breakwater -- MR. MUDD: That was ninety seven -- that was $97,900. MR. ANDERSON: 97,900, sorry. Then the next item is Hideaway Beach for improvements which relate -- it's $77,000. And then we have hydrogen -- or I'm sorry, Hideaway Beach renourishment, Item No. 9, for three thirty-five five. And that all totals six thirty-nine three, which is the number you'll see under -- under B- 1-B. And the last item is B-2-B, the 954,100. And that's made up of the Hideaway Beach Item 12, the three twenty-six thousand, and the breakwater modifications for six hundred and twenty-eight thousand one hundred for a total of nine fifty-four. So that's -- that's kind of the cheat sheet for these -- these items that appear in your table. MR. MUDD: So, Chairman, when you asked me the question, "Well, how does that break down in those subtotals," when you asked, you asked a very complicated question very simply, okay, Page 21 June 27, 2001 because -- because they break out by monitoring and actual construction. And some of the totals -- for instance, if you look at -- if you look at No. 8-D-2 in a -- in a previous sheet, it said it was $472,000, and you'll notice that that amount is divided in two places on that little crib sheet that we gave you, okay. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Uh-huh. MR. MUDD: So we owed you that, as far as coming back to you because of the question. And we had to do some research, and we've had Harry come in. Harry's not doing real well. Harry Huber is recovering but very slowly. He's on limited duty. We get to see him. He's doing work at home. Keep him in your prayers. He doesn't look real good so -- any questions on the -- on the 1 O-year breakdown on -- or the 1 O-year plan and how that breakdown came about in 2002 and how it firmed up against the budget? That's what we tried to show you. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Any questions? MR. ROELLIG: I don't know if this applies specifically. But one of the questions I had earlier was -- or the previous meeting, we had projects that were approved in prior years. Apparently the money was set aside. For instance, the Parker sand webs project. Will we get some update information on that? MR. MUDD: What we're going to do is try to let you know where we are on this year's project list. And I wanted to get back to the sand web issue with you and get your particulars so we could get back -- get back with Harry, okay, and say, "Okay, Harry. Where is that in that process?" But what we've done, in one of the old business things -- and I think it's -- I think it's -- it's a good time to -- to give me the updates on the program. And let me get those to you. Then we can talk about where this year's program is -- it was going to be under old business, but you asked the question -- and see if we can get an answer. Do you want Page 22 June 27, 2001 me to take your only copy? MR. ANDERSON: No. That's okay. There might be some blank sheets in between there. MR. ROELLIG: This is kind of a explanation for other members of the committee. For a period of years, we've had projects that apparently were funded somewhere in the past and for permit reasons or other reasons weren't accomplished, and I guess the money is in escrow somewhere. So what I'm trying to develop is how many of these are out there in escrow and what kind of money we're -- we're talking about -- about and what the probability is of some sort of a schedule on how these are going to work out. MR. PIRES: Dave, are you saying you're thinking that part of the monies not expended might be in that cash carryforward? Is that what that is? MR. MUDD: Okay. The question was, do you think it could be in the carryforward member-- from one of the -- the committee members. And -- and I would say to you, yes, it is. And what happens, Harry, the way he sets up the projects, he puts a brand-new project number on that project every year, so he doesn't keep the same number going from year to year. He puts a particular number to that process. So when you asked the question about the webs, that has a separate project number. We go in and check the project, figure out what the funds are and what was allocated and what's going on with it. And that's why I want to get into the specifics that you got in the questions. What I tried to do is take a look at this year's program, okay, and give you a-- a status of this year's program on this -- on this sheet. We have the dollar figures to back that up in the process, but I asked Roy today -- I said, "They've asked some questions about it in the past. We need to be able to tell them where we're sitting on this year's program. And then if they have questions of-- in a particular Page 23 June 27, 2001 nature about a project, we'll go back and research that a little bit." and now that I've got Harry back from the hospital, I can at least call him at home and start digging through the boxes, because we've given him his library. It's by his bedside. So it's -- it's working. But go ahead, Roy. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: spent, they're not lost. But in principle, if monies aren't MR. MUDD: No, no, not at all. They -- not at all. You -- you continue to have them in those project categories, and you can -- and you can get at them because they were approved to be done. You'll get -- you'll get -- in some terminology that you'll remember, you'll have savings and slippage, okay. And savings is when an estimate -- you put an estimate on a project but it bids lower, then you have a delta that day -- that delta is savings, and you'll also get slippage, which you'll slip into another FY or one after that because of a permit issue. We did everything we were supposed to; we did our biological opinion, biological assessment; Fish and Wildlife didn't like a particular aspect of it, tells us to modify it. Then all of a sudden it takes us out of the sea turtle window or the absence of sea turtle windows where we can do any beach restoration. And then you have to push it off into the next FY because you get your permit. You might find that your permit -- they don't like an incidental taking. And -- and so we might have to do something different during a particular time of the year so that you don't have that problem. For instance, right now we're doing Hideaway Beach dredging, and you probably saw that in Sunday's paper. And Mr. Humiston was -- was quoted significantly in that paper on the article about one turtle that got stuck on a pipe during high tide and was -- and by the time it got to be low tide the turtle was basically stuck on the thing and was doing a teeter-totter dance. But in the process of doing the teeter-totter dance, she had dropped 13 eggs. Okay. Well, our folks Page 24 June 27, 2001 went there. Maria, the sea turtle person, okay, that came to speak to you before, went out there as a good samaritan and picked up those eggs and -- and buried them. And everything's okay, and we got the turtle back in the water. So we didn't really do a taking, and there was no harm. We just had a turtle that was stranded. And when you're 250 pounds and you're dancing on a round pipe, you have a problem, and that's what basically was happening in there. But Fish and Wildlife was a little slow with that permit, oh, by the way. That biological assessment, in contacts that I had with the local fish and wildlife office, was supposed to be out at the end of November. We didn't get the approval for that thing until March, early April, and that was after weeks of calling, and -- and it had everything to do with being overworked, or at least that's what the other end of the phone was saying to me. And so the reason we're into turtle season during that project is because they were a little slow at moving pieces of paper. We should never be in this predicament right now that we're in the middle of sea turtle season doing a dredge event. It could have been prevented. And I think in large part that's why they weren't very outspoken about our activities. They being that agency weren't very outspoken about our agencies because part of the reason we're out there right now sits squarely on their chest because they got us there, and it wasn't -- and it wasn't very good timing. So -- so in our defense, we're doing everything we can so we don't harm the turtles, and we're staying away from nests and things like that. But you've got to be able -- you've got to be able to understand that there will be some slippages with projects, and we won't lose the dollars. Those dollars will be there. We just need to make sure that we do the carryforward paperwork. We have to identify to the Board of County Commissioners as the FY ends and goes into the new FY what dollars we want to carry Page 25 June 27, 2001 over into those accounts into the next physical (sic) year. If we don't identify those categories of dollars, those dollars get taken out and get put into the reserves. And then it takes another thing where we said, "Oop, made a mistake, we need to bring that stuff back out of reserves and bring it on." You see it all the time in the Board of County Commission meetings. The best way to do it is, if you plan to spend it, you have slippage, you identify it so that you just keep the money in those accounts and you let them know as the FY ends. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Well, at the next meeting or the meeting after, I think an inventory of that would be interesting for us, even though we don't actually have to do anything about that. MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. I'd like to just go over this handout for FY '01 projects. Just -- I should mention that the FY '01, the county goes on a -- on an October 1 st to October 1 st fiscal year, so when we're talking about FY '01, that means -- that means October 1st of '00 through the -- September 30th of'01. The first item here is produce and stockpile sand. That was a contract with Bonita Grande Sand Company for the 50,000 cubic yards. This is our recurring annual contract, and that was terminated or completed last year. That would have been completed at the start of the sea turtle season or about May 1 st. So that -- but that -- that still was within this current fiscal year, so that -- that was -- that's why it's included. MR. MUDD: If you remember, the Bonita Grande sand had -- had a calcium content to it that when you put it on the beach and it dried up, it left a crust. You probably saw that in the paper. We terminated that contract and came to a settlement here in the last month or so with Bonita Grande for $10,000 because they basically charged us for the space that they were stockpiling the sand that no longer passed the Florida Department of Environmental Protection Page 26 June 27, 2001 standards. So we never really got to use all of it. At the time that it was purchased, it passed FDEP's, Florida Department of Environmental Protection, passed their requirements. But when they had a different employee come on board, there was a new standard that was applied. And it -- and it -- and, oh, by the way, when we put it on the beach, it wasn't the right stuff. I have to admit it reacted with the saltwater, and it reacted to it in a negative way. It wasn't nice, fluffy sand. Then it turned more like hard pan again. We had to tell them it's like a concrete piece to it that there's no way to determine unless you take it through a -- a chemical analysis, and that's what the Florida Department of Environmental Protection did. When they identified that, we didn't use the sand. We stopped, and we finally came to settlement and closed and terminated that account. Sir. MR. STRAPPONI: Chairman, real quick question. How long did it take that sand to develop that crust? MR. MUDD: As soon as it was placed, as soon as -- as soon as the air hit it after the water hit it, whew, it started to cake. MR. STRAPPONI: And how many square yards had we laid down when we realized that? MR. MUDD: I wish I had that answer. Jon, can you help me? MR. STAIGER: Yeah. They-- I don't recall exactly, but they had put -- they had put some of it at the beach hotel, and they had put some of it up close to Doctor's Pass. And I think it was probably less than 10,000 yards. I don't recall the exact figure. The -- the carbonaceous material over time washes away so that the beach is now in better shape. It was just that it -- it stayed crusty, which some people liked because it was easy to walk on. But it was -- it was not appropriate material, and the -- and the -- the crusty nature of it made it troublesome to the people who are concerned about turtle nesting. And the original material from that source of sand met the spec Page 27 June 27, 2001 pretty well, and somewhere along in the process of mining it, they -- they either ceased washing it or short -- put some kind of shortcut in their washing process, so that stuff stayed in the sand. And I think that was part of the problem. But it -- where it was placed, we -- we didn't try to excavate it off again. We left it. And it's -- it's weathered now to something that's much more acceptable. MR. MUDD: Yeah. Al, you go -- A1 Madsen's sitting next to Jon. He's -- he's our beach inspector. Al, on those two areas, are we having problems with the sand, or is it turning flaky now or -- MR. MADSEN: It's starting to fluff up nicely. There is no -- no problem in the area. I think it's -- it's turned out okay. It just was very uncomfortable for a while when it was first placed. MR. STRAPPONI: When we get this upland sand and if it meets the spec, have we in the past or do we intend to in the future maybe laying down a small test patch area to see how it reacts with the saltwater or -- apparently that had met the spec, and so we purchased it and found out it didn't meet the spec. MR. MUDD: Yeah. We've gotten a lot more sophisticated in our sand purchase since that time. We just -- on one of the projects down here with Jahna Industries soil, we purchased 50,000 cubic yards and went through excruciating methods to make sure that it met the specs. They dumped two or three truckloads out at the point where they were going to do renourishment, and we -- and the beach renourishment council, the City of Naples, went out there, and they even had a split vote out there, okay, when I was out there that day and went out to look at the sand that actually existed versus the sand that's there, felt it, touched it, put it by the water, see if it would crust, and -- and looked at the gradations and things like that. And oh, by the way, we had an impromptu public meeting, and - - and we got a lot of public there that day, people that live there, and they made their comments known to the committee. So it was a Page 28 June 27, 2001 pretty good meeting. And we had the reporters there and everything else. And it was probably the day you-all got to see my bald spot. But we were out there touching it, and the committee was out there too. What we'd like to do this summer is we'd like to go out with an indefinite delivery and definite quantity contract for about three soil -- or sand producers, upland sand producers, and put them on multiyear contracts, give them a minimum level that we -- we would like to get and a maximum amount that we could get from any particular year and bid that out and have multiple sources that we get to look at, FDEP gets to sample and take to their labs to make sure it meets -- and, oh, by the way, they'll do anything we want in this particular case just so we don't make more work for them with rocks on the beach or sand that crusts up, okay. So they would like to help us and -- and do that and have those readily available for us so that when we get around the sea turtle nesting periods in the fall and in the spring, we're able to get those particular quantities and move them. And then if one of the suppliers has trouble -- and that's what happened with Jahna. We -- there was -- there was a discussion between two levels of sand, one of which they could produce at the 50,000 quantity, but it was missing some of the fines, okay, the very, very small pieces to it, and -- and that was a contentious issue, especially for Mr. Bow -- Boggess at the time, as I remember, and -- and the other-- and the other sand -- and they could produce both. But the ones with the fines would take a lot longer, and in the quantities that we wanted, 50,000 cubic yards, it would take them all year to make it, okay, and we wanted it in 45 days. Well, if you want it bad, you get it bad, and we wanted it bad. And what -- to preclude that from happening in the future, you need to have multiple sources that are identified under contract so it's being stockpiled so if somebody is having problems mining it and Page 29 June 27, 2001 washing it and having it right -- available in the quantities you need, you got another source that can take some of that off. So we plan to do that this summer, get those out and -- and bring those by this committee to make sure that you approve and show you what it looks like, try to do it in baggies and things like that that you can see it and, as we take it up there, make sure you get the results from the Florida Department of Environmental Protection. And when we get the go-ahead, then we can award the contract. But you'll sample it before we ever get into any contracts, as far as that's concerned. But I'd like to have that happen, one of those long-range processes we're talking about so that we get it. Right now the Jahna contract is -- is pretty much -- it says 3 percent on the piece of paper or underway or something, but we haven't got the bills back. But we put 41,000 cubic yards of that stuff on the beach up -- up on Park -- is it Parkview? MR. STAIGER: Park Shore. Park Shore. MR. MUDD: Park Shore. I'll get the names of these places. Park Shore, and on Hideaway Beach, and we still have 9,000 cubic yards that we have to put out on the beach, and we kept that kind of in reserve pending the hurricane season, where if we had a severe erosion problem in one of them, then we could -- we could go for the permit, if we didn't already have one, in order to -- to fix it fast. But we need to get additional sand sources identified and producing so that we're raring to go. In that ten-year budget, you always have as a minimum five -- 50,000 cubic yards. And as the years progress, especially around 2006, 2007, we start getting into 75,000 cubic yards. And then by the end of your ten-year period of time, we're placing a hundred thousand cubic yards on the beach. And you're saying why? Because in the last event in '96 we shorted -- the project, when it was completed, Page 30 June 27, 2001 didn't do the complete process. And there were several feet, 35, I think, total as far as the beach extension was -- that we didn't get done. And -- and so there are parts of the beach that aren't -- they're -- they're not at their approved width, okay. And so we've got some work to do. MR. GRAY: So far as -- as that project that we just completed this past spring is concerned, I was involved in that. And, yes, we did inspect it. And -- and, of course, their sands were presented, and they did get approval from the state and from local authorities. But it always -- I always wondered in my mind, as they mined this, this inland source and they trucked it in, did -- did we or did the county staff have some way of monitoring what they were producing and bringing here on a continuing basis to make sure that all the way through we were getting what we thought we were getting? MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. We -- we did. And every time it was delivered, I had A1 sitting on the -- on the receiving end to make sure that they weren't giving us a bunch of shells or rocks that was intermingled in the loads, and it was of the same consistency. And we watched it really hard. That's one of the reasons we want to bring another PM on board. And it's in the budget to go from a PM-III to a PM-I, and plus you got an inspector. You get more eyes on target, and you can see it at the source and at the other end. What we've got right now is -- we're spot-checking. MR. GRAY: Well, that was one of the things that went wrong in '96. MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. MR. STRAPPONI: Jim, is it my understanding that the 50,000 square yards that you stockpile -- and I understand that amount will increase to seventy-five, a hundred. Is that more or less in escrow so that if our upland source all of a sudden doesn't meet spec we don't stop the project, we have a stockpile that we can -- Page 31 June 27, 2001 MR. MUDD: That's what I'm trying to get at with multiple sources to give us some flexibility. Right now we are on a single source -- and -- and we're -- you know, we need it within a certain period of time and produce it all. That's -- we found out this last time -- lessons learned. You've got to be smart -- that they couldn't give us the sand of the specification that we wanted in particular in the amount of time -- we wanted it in 45 days. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Pardon me. MR. MUDD: I'm sorry. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I thought you were done. Is your question whether or not it's a contract to deliver or whether the sand physically exists in the minimum quantity? MR. STRAPPONI: I guess I was asking if we were stockpiling escrow in that 50,000 square yards so that if a contract to deliver, if they start delivering us something that's not unacceptable, it doesn't shut the restoration down, we have the stockpile that we can continue it. MR. MUDD: That's why we're going to do the multiple source where we give a minimum quantity in a year and what we'll take for them, and we'll also tell them what the maximum quantity is and do it multiple year so they can stockpile and they can hold it for us so that when we need it we've got it. And if we want more of it, then -- then what our partic -- if we have an emergency, then we can go in there and get it from them. That's the -- that's the way to do business in this particular case. Once it's been approved and it's there and we've inspected it and we sample it and if it's stockpiled for -- we sample it again on a quarterly basis or whatnot to make sure that something hasn't gone astray with it, and -- and put some checks and balances in the process, I think we can do a whole lot better and have a lot more flexibility. From what I understand, we -- we -- we pretty much limited Page 32 June 27, 2001 ourselves -- well, we haven't done any major beach renourishment until this year, and we limited ourselves to the springtime event. You've got another 45 days you can deal with. You got a total of 90. Why limit yourself to just the springtime? And -- and normally after hurricane season you have some beach erosion, so you might as well have it standing by. MR. ROELLIG: I'd like to add also that I want to emphasize that -- I think that's why we need the additional employee, because in any given sand pit, as they move around the pit to -- and go to various depths to obtain the material, you can go from acceptable to unacceptable. So that's just something that we've got to keep our eye on all the time because that can happen in any pit. So if there's something that -- stay ahead of the curve on. MR. ANDERSON: If we could go back to the list. Oh, by the way, I just received some information that the project that you mentioned, the Parker-- CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Park Shore. MR. ANDERSON: No. The Parker sand web that Mr. Roellig asked about, that is included under the FY '01 on the big sheet under 2-A, the $1.923 million. So that's -- which is part of this fiscal year. So that is in progress, so that's where you'll find that is within that-- that amount. MR. ROELLIG: That's in this fiscal year, but it won't be accomplished until the next fiscal year. MR. ANDERSON: Well, we're getting it ready to get to -- but it's -- yeah. It will probably carry over. The work itself will carry over to next fiscal year. MR. ANDERSON: But the money will be obligated, and the project will start this year. It will continue into next year. MR. GRAY: That will be a slider. MR. ROELLIG: Right. Well, I guess the reason I just was Page 33 June 27, 2001 curious about that, whether or not we have all the permits in hand now, or we're ready to go basically on that one? MR. STAIGER: We -- we have the -- we have submitted back to DEP the signed easement for the submerged land that the thing will occupy, and that's the last piece. When that gets signed at DEP, then they will issue their permit, and the corps will issue its permit. We -- the permits are ready to go. That was the last thing, which the mayor signed last week and -- so I will imagine we'll have the permits in hand within the next month. We're ready to go. MR. ROELLIG: As I understand, that we will -- we will-- this notice of procedure will be at the end of sea turtle season basically. MR. STAIGER: Yeah. They will start probably beginning of November. MR. ROELLIG: Right. Okay. MR. MUDD: One of the things that's interesting, unlike the place that I came from where the congressmen like to have flexibility with their appropriations, they can start a project in multiple years but only appropriate the money every year, and they don't have full funding for projects. And when it did happen about a couple of years ago, everybody threw a fit, and they changed it back to the old way. Collier County does it full funding up front, so when you obligate, that's when you -- that's how we carry the books. When you obligate it to cut contract, the money's got to be available. Even though the execution might be in the next year, once it's obligated, I don't have to go through the paperwork and say it's a carryover because it's obligated in that FY and, therefore, the dollars move automatically. And it's a little bit different than the system I'm used to, but -- but it's okay. I feel a whole lot better about this system than the other one because you were always praying, on the come, and you have to go talk to your congressman in order to get the dollars. MR. ANDERSON: The next item, No. 2, is our basic sea turtle Page 34 June 27, 2001 monitoring program, and that's continued monitoring being performed by the natural resources department, and that's in its continuing status. It's continuing ahead. The next item, Hideaway Beach T-groin repair and modification of five existing T-groins, that's just about completed, 95 percent complete. We do have a monitoring report handout -- we do have a monitoring report that we can hand out. It's right in that box there. The next item, Collier Bay entrance dredging, that's design, permitting, and construction activities. That's actively ongoing. It's about 60 percent complete as we speak. It should be finished up next month. Number 5, transporting and placing sand, this, again, refers back to the project which was completed in April 30th of last year. That's related to the Item No. 1. Six, beach cleaning operations, this is our standard beach cleaning program that we -- we have every year. Number 7, related beach cleaning equipment, this is the equipment that we purchased this past -- this year. It's two tractors, a beach rake, and a pickup truck. So that's all purchased, and it's just about all expended. Number 8, be -- beach maintenance, that's our routine beach maintenance, dune maintenance, beach tilling, miscellaneous maintenance of the beach profile as necessary. And that's about 40 percent complete. Number 9, the annual monitoring, this is the monitoring of the Collier County beach restoration project as required by permit conditions, and that's a continuing effort. Hideaway Beach T-groin maintenance, that project's just starting, monitoring of the existing T-groins pursuant to permit conditions. That's about 10 percent complete. Marco Island breakwater, annual monitoring of the segmented Page 35 June 27, 2001 breakwater performance, and that's about 25 percent complete at this time. Producing and transporting and placing sand, No. 12, this is the contract we were just talking about where we did Park Shore and Hideaway Beach. And that's completed. That was completed as of May 1 st. And we have a monitoring report to pass out to you also that was prepared by our consulting engineers. MR. GRAY: While -- while we're waiting, I'll just ask a question: The new sand that was put at Park Shore and at Marco and Hideaway, was that completed satisfactorily by the contractor, and have they been paid in full, or is there anything that's outstanding there? MR. ANDERSON: No. To my knowledge, from talking with Harry just this morning, that's -- that's pretty much complete. I believe there is an issue of a possible change order there. He did mention that, but I don't have any specifics on that. MR. MUDD: They still have 9,000 cubic yards that are in a stockpile. We paid for the whole 50,000. It's sitting there, okay. And we still have an outstanding with the truck company that needs to haul it. They haven't finished hauling all 50,000, so they haven't charged us for the last nine. MR. GRAY: But everything else went according to the way we expected. The quality of the sand was okay, the quantity and-- MR. MUDD: Absolutely. And what I'd -- what I'd ask A1 to do for me is to -- when I -- when I give you the e-mail addresses of these gentlemen, what I'll -- what I'll do is, you did a report for me on that sand placement, okay, to show you the before and after effects. It's a really good project, and I think it's enlightening. He'll give it to me, and I'll -- and I'll ship it to you. It's a -- it's a -- he did a very good job putting it together as far as the before and after and the exact quantities that were put there. But Page 36 June 27, 2001 A1 could tell you a little bit more. But from -- from the staff standpoint, they did a really good. MR. GRAY: My view is that they did a good job too. I live there on the beach, and I -- I watched it, and I felt like that we got what we paid for. But I didn't know what your-ali's perspective was. MR. MUDD: Right. It -- it was good. We would have liked to have a little bit more time. Maybe we wouldn't have that 9,000 cubic yards left. But we ran into turtle season, and that was part of the reason that we had it. I was a little dissatisfied with the trucking firm because they bid it, but they didn't have bond, okay, and they -- and they forced us to - - to do -- they forced us to do a lot of over -- I call it overtime. They condensed the time period to place it a lot shorter than I would have liked it to be because they didn't have the bonding issue done. And - - and it forced them to deliver -- I think they did some Saturday work, too, Al. MR. MADSEN: Yes, sir. MR. MUDD: But we pushed them hard to get the quantities out there. I would have wished they would have had the bonding issue like they said they would have had. Again, we got ourselves into one contractor. We got ourselves forced into the line. Instead of having multiple options, we only had one. And, oh, by the way, they -- they -- they didn't have what they said they were supposed to, even a letter of credit, okay, that -- that rating that you need, they couldn't come up with it. So we -- we pushed them for about a three-week period of time. We did a lot of hammering and a lot of phone calls trying to get people to answer the question. And -- and really what happened, they changed the name. They went from -- it was Dad's ownership to the kids' ownership. And when they did that, they lost their bonding. They thought they had it at the time. Live and learn. Page 37 June 27, 2001 They got it done. They did a good job, but we learned a little bit on this last one too. We probably need to have a couple of trucking firms that are on the contract multiple year so that we can engage them so we don't get ourselves in a fix and we lose half of the 45-day window. MR. GRAY: Did they -- did they get the bond? MR. MUDD: Yes, they did. We wouldn't-- we wouldn't let them carry unless they -- they were bonded. They got to hold Collier County harmless, and the only way to do that is to have that kind of issue. So, yes, they -- they were able to do that before we could let them start to haul, but we got ourselves in a bond -- a bind again. We got ourselves into a bond -- a bind again because we went -- we went with only one firm and didn't have some other options. MR. ANDERSON: Just continuing on the list: Thirteen, Hideaway Beach renourishment feasibility study for future renourishment of Hideaway Beach, that's a relatively new project just starting. And then I put on the bottom here No. 14, all the projects that we completed during this year were closed out: Marco Beach maintenance, Capri, Big Marco Pass inlet management plan, county beach study, Wiggins Pass management plan, and Caxambas Pass dredging. Those were -- were closed out this year. MR. PIRES: Mr. Chairman, not to interrupt the staff presentation, I have a three o'clock appointment downstairs, so I'll be leaving at about five minutes to three. And if this meeting is still ongoing after that, then I'll step back in if that's okay. I didn't want to just leave abruptly and think I had been offended by anyone. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Okay. MR. PIRES: Okay. (Mr. Pires left the room.) MR. MUDD: That -- that completes your update as far as the -- Page 38 June 27, 2001 the status is concerned. What I would like to do for next meeting is provide you the numbers that go behind-- go behind those issues so I can get you into -- just this backup information. I don't want to give you something to make your eyes glaze over, but we'll give you the backup data in that project. What I had was the main numbers. We'll have them updated so that I can give you that entire spreadsheet. It's your turn, Roy. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. If we're back on old business, I just wanted to -- the first item we put on there was the May 29th minutes approval. They are now available on the web site, so -- both -- actually, both previous minutes, the minutes from the May meeting and the June meeting that we had are now both on there. So if you -- and I did send out a little instruction sheet that you can use to go through it -- go through the -- to go through to get to the -- to the minutes, and -- and Mr. Pires had sent me some comments. He had gone through the May 29th minutes and found a number of typographical errors, and we're having our clerk -- the finance clerk who is responsible for the -- the program -- programming of that check out the problems with those minutes. But we had some 14 typographical errors in the minutes, and we're trying to get to the bottom of that. So -- MR. MUDD: And they basically boil down to it took the J in just and made it an L, okay. So they -- they were kind of X-rated -- no. I'm kidding -- so it turned into "lust." CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: The reporter with us today had mentioned to me before the meeting that there's apparently some kind of bug or something in -- in the software. I would think -- MR. MUDD: Well, what we'd like to do is to get the -- to get the committee to approve the minutes pending those changes, those typos as -- as part of the old business. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: That's what I was going to Page 39 June 27, 2001 suggest that unless -- they're not really substantive in nature and we have a handle on the problem, that we have them corrected as a scribner's-type issue. MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. MR. GRAY: I have a question on that. Is -- is this going to be our procedure in the future, to always have the minutes just available on the internet and not have a hard copy here at the meetings or at least mailed out to us as part of our packet before we have a meeting so that-- MR. MUDD: If you want-- MR. GRAY: Because some people might not have a computer. MR. MUDD: Okay. If you need them mailed, I'll mail them. MR. GRAY: I would prefer that. MR. STAKICH: I'd prefer it. MR. MUDD: Okay. We'll have that done. MR. STRAPPONI: Jim, I have a question. The May 29th minutes, I was able to download that and read through it and -- but the next site I had a great deal of difficulty trying to access it. I think you had problems, too, didn't you? MR. GRAY: Yeah. I did too, and that's one of the reasons why I would like to have a hard copy and have it in our packet before we meet each month because, you know, I love my computer, and I love all the stuff it can do, and I think it's great, but it's not quite there yet, I think, for something like this. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I think probably -- I thought maybe it was just my connection at -- at the time, but I had the same experience. The June 7th minutes I don't think I ever got. If I got them, I probably, you know, gave up and it downloaded two hours later or something. It may have been just that site. I don't know. I'd like to get them on the computer, but that particular file, I think there's a problem accessing it. Page 40 June 27, 2001 MR. MUDD: Why don't -- why don't we do this then: Why don't we hold on approving the minutes. Let us take all minutes from all three meetings now that we have, and we'll mail those out to you. And at the next meeting that we'll have on the 2nd of August we'll have all three mailed out to you ahead of time, and then you can approve them in the process. And then some folks that have been gone to Africa hopefully will be back and -- and read what he missed. MR. ANDERSON: They take about two weeks to -- to be transcribed, so it will probably be a couple-of-week time frame when we send them out. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Okay. MR. ANDERSON: Okay? MR. GRAY: That will be fine, as long as we get them before the next meeting. We did have a problem with our previous committee in that we would meet and we wouldn't have the minutes from the last meeting, and it was because of a backlog, I think, in the clerk's office. As far as I was concerned, that was always a problem because I just don't think we were functioning efficiently unless at the meeting that we're at we have the minutes of the last meeting and, you know, that's just not according to Robert's Rules. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: We should also as a procedural matter then probably take a motion, if anyone wants to make it, to continue the approval of the May 29th meetings until August 2nd. MR. ROELLIG: So moved. MR. GRAY: So moved-- second. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: All in favor? (Unanimous response.) CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: (No response.) CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: at the moment, 5/0. Opposed? It passes unanimously, that being Page 41 June 27, 2001 MR. ANDERSON: The next item -- we talked about the work plans. The next item, Jim just handed out the financial disclosure form which was -- which was requested the last meeting. I did get this from the supervisor of elections so -- and it-- I spoke with the -- with the county attorney who indicated that because you-all are in a position where you're in the chain of approval of projects, it's necessary for you to -- to -- to fill this out. So it does have to be completed, and there are instructions in there. I think it's on page 2 at the bottom that indicates that it's to be submitted to the supervisor of elections here in Collier County. So it's -- so if there's any questions on that or any further -- you can call me at any time if I can help you with-- with that. MR. ROELLIG: Is this an annual submission? MR. ANDERSON: Yes, sir. MR. MUDD: Best-- best I -- MR. ROELLIG: I know they did it -- in the previous committee, I think I did it once, but I don't know if that is -- MR. MUDD: Well, we'll find out. it's an annual submission. MR. GRAY: I never did it at all. MR. ROELLIG: Oh, really? MR. MUDD: We won't say that, sir. MR. GRAY: Right or wrong. My -- my best read on this is MR. ROELLIG: At the appropriate time, if we're prompted, we will be glad to do -- MR. ANDERSON: In terms of when to file, in the third column there it indicates (as read): "thereafter, local officers, state officers, and specified state employees are required to file by July 1st following each calendar year in which they hold their positions." So it's apparently an annual filing. MS. ROBINSON: It is annual. Page 42 June 27, 2001 MR. ROELLIG: Pardon me? MR. MUDD: She just confirmed it is annual. It's always good to have an assistant attorney still with us. Back to you, Roy. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Item 4, new business: TDC meeting of June 25th. That's, basically, just -- we -- we already covered that. That's pretty much a -- a summary of the approval process, the - we -- we indicated that we got the approval of the '02 and the 1 O-year -- 1 O-year program at that meeting. MR. MUDD: Now, the ten-year program was not up for approval. I want to correct something he said. It was given to them and explained to them as a working paper, okay, that -- that -- that -- that your committee would be using, okay, and changing as -- as time goes on. And that process, it was a snapshot. It was also used to make sure that the percentages with the new TDC ordinance was -- was going to be corrected, and that's how I portrayed that on Monday evening. I-- it was unanimous vote on-- on your 4.717 -- $4.732 million after the explanations were made to the changes that were different than -- than the report that I gave them on -- on 9 April. And so explained and passed. Again, they weren't going to do anything until -- until you approved it. And -- and they were so particular about it on 9 April that they said that they would accept it, okay -- they would only accept the draft without your approval on 9 April and that you had to approve it before they would -- it would come to them. So they were very, very particular about the verbiage they used when I gave it to them on 9 April. So I will tell you, they look to you for -- for that guidance and for those projects that need to be done in -- in Collier County, and -- and they're dead serious about it. They're very hesitant to touch anything without having gone through this committee. Now, I would tell you, if I can get the Board of County Page 43 June 27, 2001 Commissioners to be this particular and -- and in the past I've heard them from the dais say, "Well, that's a project," and I think what we need to do is when that happens, say -- and you -- you have a -- you have a group that will do that, all you have to do is bring the project to their attention and let them evaluate it. So I'm trying to focus them back to you when it gets to project identification so that they don't start taking it upon themselves to pass it without going through the prop -- the proper committees. And we'll work on that. And in the past sometimes I -- I think the beach renourishment committee of Naples got a little frustrated, "Well, they'll just pass it anyway." I heard that one or two times in the meetings that I attended. And I'd like to focus it back down so that, hey, there is a -- there is a mechanism to bring those projects to bear where there is a good evaluation done and a prioritization of those projects on a -- on a complete list and what's good for the county as it goes forward. So I'll do my best, as I attend those meetings, to make sure that they focus that way, that nobody's -- nobody's particular charter gets usurped. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Very good. MR. MUDD: We -- we did hire a new project manager. Did you give them a resume or-- MR. ANDERSON: No. We'll send that out. MR. MUDD: -- a bio? I owe you a bio. The guy -- the gentleman's name is Ron Hovell. He's a 20-year Navy Seabee, graduate of Annapolis, has lots of experience with dredging, beach restoration, and issues like that. Today he's still in the Navy, but when he comes here on I August, he won't be. We were lucky to get him, and it was -- it was -- it was a rare find, as far as -- as far as I'm concerned, because I looked at the other folks that -- that applied for the job, and by -- by far he was most qualified, best qualified, to be -- to be exact, and he was head -- head and shoulders over the rest. So Page 44 June 27, 2001 we're lucky to have him on board, and we'll get to meet him at your 2nd August meeting. So you'll see a new face. And -- and we'll do some transitions with Harry, if he gets -- even if he has to go to Harry's house and check him at bedside, but we'll do some good transitions with that process. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: As he gets -- as he gets up to speed with the new position, will he be the primary liaison -- MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: -- with us? MR. MUDD: What I'm going to do -- and it's been kind of a transitional period of time. What I'd like to do in the -- in the furore, the next couple of meetings, I'll sit here and help through the process. But I'd like to have Ron and Roy take this meeting on as the staff liaisons, and I'll -- and I'll watch them and make sure that process goes on to make sure that there is a good transition so that you're fully up and you get to see the same faces and I don't get pulled away because my buzzer goes off or whatever I just got. But you deserve better than that, and -- and I've got my hands on lots of stuff. So, yeah, I'm going to make sure that that happens. And he's dedicated. He's full time to that position. And there will be another PM-I and A1 that are full time. They do nothing else but beach. And there is no other projects on their plate. Even their training is -- is tapped to TDC dollars and -- and their -- their benefits. So they're yours, and you should use them to your maximum extent. We want to have a first-class process, and we're bringing on first-class people to see that that happens. Now, A1 did take a shot today in the editorial page. MR. ROELLIG: Letters to the editor, yeah. MR. MUDD: Yeah. In the letters of the editor, he took a shot. Now I -- in his defense, he wasn't going more than 4 miles an hour, and he stopped before he came to that family some 30 feet away and Page 45 June 27, 2001 asked the -- the lady if she would be so kind to hang on to her kids while he passed. She didn't like that process too much. And -- and so he took a little bit of a un -- unnecessary shot in today's paper. But he -- he only -- he does the beach once a week, okay, to make sure he gets to see all the areas. He does Naples beach twice a week. And in this particular case he had to get a little closer to the water than he would have liked to because of a sea turtle nest. And that's where we got into turtles over kids in today's paper. And I think it was pretty -- an unfair shot. Now-- and-- and-- and Commissioner Henning did call that lady and -- and talked to her, and she said that the person, the county employee, was most kind and most courteous, and that's the way A1 has always been, and -- but that didn't come out in the paper today. MR. ROELLIG: Surprise. MR. MUDD: But it's not us riding up and down on the beach doing -- doing those kind of things. He was doing his job, and he was being very careful about the folks that were there. So they are our-- they are your employees, your eyes and ears in-- in that process so ... MR. GRAY: Do I -- do I understand it right, the new man that is coming on, will he be taking Harry's place? MR. MUDD: Yes. MR. GRAY: Okay. MR. MUDD: Harry's -- this isn't an unstressful job. And you do take some -- you do take some heat in the paper and things. And Harry's health over the last year or so hasn't been -- hasn't been too good. I think part of it has to do with stress. Harry needs a break. I'm going to move him to some utility projects. He's done a good job. I just need to get him -- get him out of the stress-laden processes and -- to do that, and I think Harry deserves that. He's been a good county employee. He hasn't -- he hasn't done anything wrong that I Page 46 June 27, 2001 can -- that I can determine. He just takes -- he's been taking some unneeded heat. So I'm going to -- I'm going to move him on in my engineering division to do some utility projects, some water and wastewater projects, and the new gentleman will take over for beach. MR. ANDERSON: Yeah. There will be an extended transition between Harry and -- and Ron Hovell of probably two months, three months or more if need to -- because I've found, just myself, there's so much depth to the -- to this -- to this work, it really takes a long time to -- to grasp all the dimensions of it. MR. GRAY: His name's Ron Hovell? MR. ANDERSON: Yes. And when I send the minutes out, in that same package I'll also include the -- the resume of Ron in that package. MR. GRAY: Good. MR. MUDD: Subject to -- to your questions, I think we've gone down this agenda. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Uh-huh. We have a few members of the public here. MR. STRAPPONI: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. I -- I do have a question for Mr. Mudd. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Sure. MR. STRAPPONI: Before I ask the question, I'd like to extend my sincerest wishes for a speedy recovery for Harry. I know you talk to him probably and -- my question: Apparently Lee County has just approved their first off-leash park for a waterfront area designated for pets. Has the public at large or has staff ever considered it, or does Collier County have anything of this nature? MR. MUDD: I'd have to check with Mr. Ochs who's the administrator for -- for public services, okay. I'll get it before I leave. MR. STRAPPONI: Okay. MR. MUDD: I -- I don't know of any. And the reason I don't Page 47 June 27, 2001 know, it hasn't hit the paper here in that process, but I'll -- but I'll check and get back with you at the next meeting to give you an answer yes or no. MR. STRAPPONI: Well, I raise the question because if-- if there has been any input from the public at large, you know, I -- I think I would like to know about it and have a look at it. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I'm virtually certain we don't have anything in the county now. We do have the so-called bark park but nothing on the coast. A few years ago -- and by that I mean maybe five years, six years -- there was a -- some thought to -- to doing a -- an off-leash section of the beach. And I don't recall if that was considered at the county level or City of Naples, and there was an outcry of what would happen and health risks and safety risks and all that. You never know if it's the -- certainly the most vocal people were against it. Whether -- whether the more people than not were against it or not, I don't know. And I'll never forget somebody wrote to the newspaper and said, "Well, if we allow this, what next? Elephants?" And that kind of killed it. MR. STRAPPONI: Dr. Staiger, has it ever come up before the City of Naples? MR. STAIGER: Well, we have an ordinance in the city that says you can't have dogs on the beach. And I know that there are people who go out in the evening after the beach patrol has gone away and run their dogs in the water because some law -- some dogs love it but -- but it's come up periodically, and I think that the public- health concern has -- has always sort of put it to rest, but it's -- it's something that -- that does get asked for periodically. We are wrestling right now with an issue of a gentleman who trains or at least climatizes guide dog puppies prior to their actual guide dog training. And he's been trying to figure out a way that he can take Page 48 June 27, 2001 these dogs on to the beach so that they can get used to that environment and people without breaking the law. And I think he's sort of at an impasse with the city manager right now. But the -- there have been questions about dogs and horses. And I know people let their dogs run on the beach at Key Island, but, of course, you've got to have a boat to get there, which, of course, doesn't make it very accessible to the general public. But with -- that's one of the things that -- that your committee, I think, might very easily want to look at is -- is how much of a desire is there, and is there a way it can be done. If Lee County is going to do it, you know, perhaps they've got some guidelines that -- I know, you know, dogs like it so much, it's kind of a shame to deny it. MR. STRAPPONI: Apparently they have done it and got some positive press. I think most people like animals, even if they don't own one, and they thought it was a pretty good thing. MR. MUDD: We'll check on it. We'll get with Lee County. We'll check our ordinances and see what we have. And the next meeting we'll give you-- MR. STRAPPONI: Maybe if someone on staff could contact the people in Lee County and get their input. MR. MUDD: We will. No problem. MR. STRAPPONI: Thank you. MR. GRAY: I have a question: This may be better fitted under old business. But, Jon, I don't know if this is in your province or if this is in Jim's. The dredging at Doctor's Pass, has that contractor completed that job? MR. STAIGER: Yeah. The -- the sand dredging part of it has been completed, and he has taken his dredge and his equipment and gone to another job. The -- he retained a local contractor as a subcontractor to do the rock removal part of it, and that is underway now, and it's probably going to be underway for at least another Page 49 June 27, 2001 month or taken out basically putting it the south so because there's a -- a fair volume of rock that has to be of the bottom of the dredge cut out in the gulf. And they're doing it with a -- with a crane with a clam bucket on it, on the barge, and then that material is being off-loaded on jetty at Doctor's Pass. And that's underway now. So the project is -- is in the rock removal phase, but it isn't completed yet. MR. GRAY: Did he complete the sand removal and dredging of-- according to the way it was expected to be completed? I know it was supposed to be done, like, last November. MR. STAIGER: Yeah. Yeah. He -- he completed the project to -- to the engineer's satisfaction. It just took him an extra 5 1/2 months to do it. MR. GRAY: Is he being hit for liquidated damages? MR. STAIGER: Yes. Yeah. We haven't really calculated all that yet. But most of the work that's been done by the engineer since December or so is -- is chargeable at -- at-- for liquidated damages because he had to supervise so much of the job. And we've had an awful lot of-- of concern from private property owners about propeller damage running into the dredge pipe and the like. So there have been a fair number of charges. But we'll -- we'll not reconcile that until they get the rock removal finished. MR. GRAY: Okay. MR. ANDERSON: I did want to just mention very briefly, if I could, that I did receive a copy from our consulting engineer on a monitoring report for the -- for Gordon Pass, and I'm prepared to pass that out to you, if you like, for your information. It's a -- it looks like a very nice report. And if you don't mind carrying any more bulk, I can give you -- give you that report if that's okay. MR. STRAPPONI: I'd like a copy. MR. GRAY: Uh-huh. I would too. Are -- there are any other projects -- I mean, we've talked about Page 50 June 27, 2001 some of them here. I know they're kind of like ongoing. But I just was trying to think of other projects that were going on with our other committee, like the -- the rope project I call it? MR. ROELLIG: The sand web? MR. GRAY: The sand web. Is that-- is that supposed to be after sea turtle season -- MR. STAIGER: Yeah. That -- that will get underway -- yeah, that's Parker-- that's -- will be underway in the fall. And the other project that is -- is in the permitting process right now is -- is sand tightening the jetty at Gordon Pass. And that is -- the engineering work is being done right now by the adjacent property owner. So that's not being paid for by TDC. And the -- there was an estimated, I think, four or five hundred thousand dollars for the actual project. And it looks as though we will get at least half of that money from the state. The owner of the jetty is going to, I believe, deed the jetty over to the city so that it will become a public -- public structure. And in that case the state can give us some grant money for working on it. They -- they can't give the grant to a private property owner for -- for something like that. But that's in the process right now, and the state rep -- rep from DEP has been working with Harry on that. But that's -- that's one project that's -- that's still out there that we have the TDC grant for that. And I can't remember the exact dollar figure. MR. GRAY: And that -- that will be a part of this committee's -- this new committee's doings as we go forward. MR. STAIGER: Yeah. We will as -- the previous committee approved it and the -- the TDC and the Board of County Commissioners have -- have handled it all. But it will -- will -- as we get into the actual construction, we'll keep you aware of what's going on. That's part of the overall inlet management plan for Gordon Pass. MR. GRAY: Okay. Page 51 June 27, 2001 MR. STAIGER: Thank you. MR. MUDD: I had snuck that report into you already. You should have three reports: one with a green cover with some T- groins on it; one with a dozer. That's the -- that's the Park Shore beach renourishment. It's got all the picts on that e-mail, okay, that they have. And then there's the one that-- the first one I put out is Collier County Board of Commissioners, Hideaway Beach T-groins. Okay. So you had three reports. MR. ROELLIG: I have one item the committee might want to consider, and it depends on what the county's wishes are. The previous committee's meetings were televised by the City of Naples. I don't know if there's any interest or-- from the county or the committee as far as having these meetings televised. MR. MUDD: We can do that. I mean -- MR. ROELLIG: I don't-- you know, whatever-- if that's -- I just bring it up as something that was done in the past. It doesn't mean we need to do it now. MR. MUDD: Or we could -- we could do it -- MR. ROELLIG: It's something for us to think about. MR. MUDD: If there's a -- for instance, in the future if we decide to do, like, quarterly updates as far as how the projects are when we get a little more sophisticated and we start showing pics, pictures of that process, like on a PowerPoint or whatever, we might want to televise that particular one to let the folks know that the program's working. If you want it every meeting, we can -- we can make it available. It's not that hard to beam it up. I just have to get the allocation of time on the TV station. So I don't think it's an issue. And this room is set up to do that. MR. GRAY: I -- I would be in favor of it as long as we don't have performances for the TV camera. And I don't know how we control that, but some of you are laughing, and I think you know Page 52 June 27, 2001 what I'm speaking of, because it can be a problem. But I think the -- the work of this committee is important enough to the county that the public should know, and that's probably going to be the best way for them to know. I would be in favor of it. MR. MUDD: Yeah. I'm just -- if you want to do it periodically, if you want to do it all the time, and I think that's probably the -- the question -- or do you want to do it? But I think he's -- Mr. Gray has a point about grandstanding. You'll get some folks that will come in and grandstand and -- and, you know, look at TV land and say, "Hello, I'm here. Now, they're not listening to me." I've seen that a couple of times with the Board of County Commissioners, okay, and then you have to have due diligence to make sure that they stick to the subject and -- subject at hand and keep them focused and keep them moving. MR. ROELLIG: I think-- excuse me. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Go ahead. MR. ROELLIG: I would think that maybe we might wait until we have more members of the committee and have a discussion on that some time. I don't think there's any big rush to start, but there are pros and cons to it. MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: I was just going to say it had occurred to me also -- I, too, I would think it would be a good idea, at least certainly when we really get geared up in the fall or whenever that occurs. The possibility of grandstanding exists with any televised meeting. And while it can occur, I don't believe it's that big a problem. I think that if these meetings are televised there are a topic -- it's a topic that concerns a lot of people. And if they're televised it'll make more people aware that we're considering various beach projects. I think it can be very beneficial. MR. MUDD: It's not -- it's not a problem. We can do whatever Page 53 June 27, 2001 you like. MR. GRAY: It's a good source, too, for committee members to go back and see what we talked about. I have found that, you know, because they do have reruns. And I don't know if that's the purpose of the reruns or not, but it can be a very good source for -- you know, you walk away from a meeting like this and you wonder, what did we decide? Well, you can go back and take a look, and it's quite helpful. MR. ROELLIG: I have to admit that I have videotaped some of those, and it was helpful to -- certain things are fuzzy in your mind. MR. GRAY: Yes. ROELLIG: The next time the next month comes back, you MR. look at it. MR. MR. GRAY: You don't need minutes that way. ROELLIG: Well -- no. We need minutes. MR. ANDERSON: Mr. Chairman, would you like us to maybe put it on the next agenda as an item for-- CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Let's put it on for discussion, yes. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Okay. Will do. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Now we've come to the time for public comment if we have anyone. Mr. Humiston. MR. HUMISTON: Ed Humiston with Humiston Moore Engineers. I just wanted to talk for a minute about the issue of constructing a beach project during turtle nesting season which Jim Mudd had alluded to as being an extremely important matter. As -- as he had said, it did cause the project that's under construction now to slide, actually, for more than a year that we've been working on trying to get the permits for this. But I want the -- the committee to understand that Collier County has their natural resources staff down on the beach at dawn every morning patrolling the beach. If there are any turtle nests in the area, they're relocated to an area where they Page 54 June 27, 2001 won't be affected by construction. There's either a member of our firm or A1 Madsen on the beach at all times during construction. The -- the contractor has been briefed and is constantly briefed and is, in fact, adhering very strictly to the permit conditions. He's being very cooperative adhering to those conditions to ensure that there won't be any injury to any endangered sea turtles. So although we do have the Fish and Wildlife document that has the -- what's known as the incidental take statement in it so that there would not be any legal problem if something did happen, I don't think anyone who is involved in this project anticipates there would be any injury whatsoever to any sea turtles. The incident that Jim Mudd had -- had alluded to was the turtle that got caught behind the pipe. What actually happened was the turtle crawled up the beach and crawled laterally down the beach until it found the place where it wanted to nest. It successfully completed its nesting. It was on its return to the water that it found out that it had crawled behind the pipe. And as it crawled around down there, the eggs that were dropped in that area were, in fact, collected and buried with the relocated nest. But I've talked to some experts on sea turtle nesting that indicated that if-- if the turtle had, in fact, completed its nesting successfully and the pipe hadn't been there, those eggs probably would have been dropped in the river and become snook food. So we don't feel this incident in any way caused any injury to the turtle, and we don't expect there to be any injury during the course of the project. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: As long as you're up at the podium, I had a question. One of the handouts we got today from the county staff is the interim monitoring report on South Naples -- MR. HUMISTON: That's correct. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: -- that was prepared by your firm. Page 55 June 27, 2001 MR. HUMISTON: That's right. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: And I just happened to be leafing through it, and there's a picture -- it's a before picture, basically -- it's page 20 of this report. Preconstruction at approximately mid to low tide, and then there's a diagram of the project -- the project goals, I guess, for the work that would be done. And in the current picture it looks like it's succeeded fabulously. Have the groins retained more sand than anticipated, or is that because the picture was taken at lower tide or what? MR. HUMISTON: I'm not sure exactly what the tide stage was there, and that certainly could affect it. But we also have monitoring data that shows that the -- the structures are performing very well. We're, in fact, very pleased with the way they are working. This is an interim monitoring report. We are in the process of preparing the one-year monitoring report. And I had, in fact, suggested to Jim Mudd at that time after the committee has an opportunity to review this report and become familiar with the project, we would be very happy to make a technical presentation to the committee. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Very good. Thank you. I will bet there's no one else from the public that needs to speak now. Is there anything else from any of the committee members? (No response.) CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: If not, then we're adjourned, and we'll be back together on August 2nd. MR. MUDD: And we should have name tags, too, by that time. Okay. We've got them out for order. CHAIRMAN GALLEBERG: Thank you. Page 56 June 27, 2001 There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 3:26 p.m. COLLIER COUNTY COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE GARY GALLEBERG, CHAIRMAN TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING, INC., BY BARBARA A. DONOVAN, RMR, CRR Page 57