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CAC Minutes 05/29/2001 RMay 29, 2001 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER COUNTY COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE May 29, 2001 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Coastal Advisory Committee, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 5:30 p.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRPERSON: Gary Gallenberg Anthony P. Pires, Jr. David Roellig John P. Strapponi Ashley D. Lupo Robert B. Stakich William Kroeschell Robert Gray NOT PRESENT: James L. Snediker ALSO PRESENT: James Mudd, Public Utilities Administrator Jon C. Staiger, Ph.D., City of Naples Natural Resources Manager Page I May 29, 2001 MR. MUDD: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. It's kind of interesting to see everybody up here -- up here on the dais. I hope I never have to sit in this chair for real life. It's a hot seat. I'm Jim Mudd. I'm the Public Utilities Administrator for Collier County. I'm -- I'm making an assumption now that everybody has received this packet in the mail (indicating}. Has anybody not received the packet? MR. GRAY: I got it today. MR. MUDD: You got it today. You speed read, sir? I'm sorry it didn't make it sooner than that. Harry Huber, the guy that sent it out, is in the hospital in Gainesville. He normally runs the program management side of the house for beach and beach renourishment for -- for Collier County. Hopefully he'll be back on his feet. He had some intestinal problems. He had an operation about a year ago, and it kicked up over the Memorial Day Weekend and put him in the hospital. So we're hoping for a speedy recovery, and I'm so glad that Jon's here with me -- Dr. Jon Staiger is with me from the City of Naples, who's also the subject-matter expert. The two of them are almost like the dynamic duo. And so we will try and get through that process. But this is the Coastal Advisory Committee, and it has a brand-new charter. The charter was part of that packet. It, hopefully, will take a fresh look -- and not that anything in the past was bad -- but a fresh look in the fact that we start taking a look at the out years about how the beach and beach renourishment, beach access; those things need to be looked at, so that we have a game plan that looks out there five to ten years out. Part of your packet was also a ten-year budget. You'll say "Well, what happened there?" Well, we tried to do the best we Page 2 May 29, 2001 could with the ten-year budget because there is also a move afoot to talk about how the dollars get disbursed in that 3 cents tax. And there is a special TDC meeting on the 4th of June that's going to take place where they are going to talk about changing that ordinance. So what we tried to do with that ten-year plan was make sure there was enough money in the coffer in order to take care of our beach and -- and the beach on Marco Island, the City of Naples and in Collier County in general to make sure that it is a world-class beach. Some of the things in that document for beach renourishment I had Harry Huber, the project manager, put in some place where this 50,000 cubic yards of upland sands that goes on the beach that it would be increased every year to a -- to a bigger quantity, so when we get to some of those issues where for five years we really haven't put a lot of sand on the beach since the rocks-on-the-beach incident and to try and catch up a little bit to -- to get those quantities and put it in the budget so that there was enough there in order to do it. We'll talk about that in just a little bit. I guess the first thing we should do is a roll call. Or, ma'am, did you already do a roll call? COURT REPORTER: I did a roll call. MR. MUDD: Okay. The roll call is done. And then we can discuss some procedural matters with the ordinance. But while we are here, just as an introduction in case everybody doesn't know each other, if we can start with you, sir, and introduce yourself to the rest of the members of the committee. MR. GRAY: My name is Bob Gray. I'm representing the City of Naples. MR. PIRES: My name is Tony Pires. I'm the representative of the unincorporated area of Collier County. MR. STRAPPONI: My name is Jack Strapponi. I'm with Page 3 May 29, 2001 Collier County. MR. STAKICH: Bob Stakich. Marco Island. MR. GALLENBERG: I'm Gary Gallenberg, one of the City of Naples seats. MR. ROELLIG: David Roellig, Collier County. MS. LUPO: Ashley Lupo, City of Marco. MR. KROESCHELL: Bill Kroeschell, City of Naples. MR. MUDD: And we have one -- one person that is absent; is that correct? MR. GALLENBERG: There should be-- MR. MUDD: Mr. Snediker is the one -- MR. STAKICH: He's absent. He's out of town. MR. MUDD: Okay. MR. GALLENBERG: Is he a Marco rep? MR. STAKICH: He's a Marco rep. MR. MUDD: Okay. The next thing that we need -- we need to do and it's what you always do -- when I was joking with the councilmen, I said, "Sitting in the center seat doesn't necessarily mean you are going to be chair." But if you get in the middle of this dais, you never know what's going to happen. But we are going to have to elect a chair and vice chair of the committee; that's -- that's appropriate. And then I think we -- we probably want to take a look at the ordinance real fast to make sure that everybody is up to speed with it, to make sure that everybody knows what it says, knows what the charter is. And I would -- and I would postpone -- there's a -- there's a thing in the charter that talks about different tenures for different members based on a year, two years, three year. I would like to put that off until -- until the next meeting and let everybody make sure that they are familiar with that process, and then we can figure out who's going to be on for a year, who's going to be two, who's going to be four; that kind -- that kind of process. Because they want to Page 4 May 29, 2001 make sure that there's continuity in the -- in the committee as the years go on. So without further ado, do I have a nomination for chair? MR. PIRES: Tony Pires, for the record. I will nominate Gary Gallenberg as chair. MR. MUDD.' Do I have a second? MR. KROESCHELL.' I will second that motion. MR. MUDD: I guess, do you want -- you know, I don't want to put you in a spot. But from a voluntary standpoint, is that okay with you, sir? MR. GALLENBERG: I'll do it. Yes, I can do it. MR. MUDD: Okay. Now, let's take a vote. All in favor. (Unanimous response.) MR. MUDD: Opposed? (No response.) MR. MUDD: Unanimous. And one absent. I need a nomination for vice chair. MR. PIRES: I will pipe up again, if it's okay. Tony Pires, for the record. David Roellig. MR. MUDD: Do I have a second? MR. GALLENBERG: I'll second. MR. MUDD: Mr. Roellig. MR. ROELLIG: I -- I will accept that. MR. MUDD: Okay. Do I have any other nomination? Okay. A vote. All in favor. (Unanimous response.) MR. MUDD: Opposed. (No response.) MR. MUDD.' And -- and one is not here. So by unanimous -- If I can get you to turn in your packet to -- to the charter. It's to the rear of the packet. MR. GALLENBERG: When you say "charter, "you are Page 5 May 29, 2001 referring to the ordinance? MR. MUDD: The ordinance, I'm sorry, 2001-03. And then right behind it is 2001-14, which is the amendment to the ordinance. No sooner than it was out, we had an amendment. The amendment has to do with -- with how the candidates come from the City of Naples and the City -- and the City of Marco Island. The -- we can go -- we can start on page 1, if you like. Chair, do you want to take this down? Or do you want to take us through this, or do you want me to keep working through this process? MR. GALLENBERG: I'd -- I'd like for you to keep going. As with Mr. Gray, I -- I have the packet. I just received it. MR. MUDD: Certainly. That's fine. This is basically the ordinance that established the Coastal Advisory Committee. There are three members from Marco Island, from the City of Naples, and from the unincorporated part of Collier County that are part of -- that are part of this committee. This -- this committee is to advise the Board of County Commissioners and the Tourist Development Council of project priorities with respect to funding sources that are available to Collier County for restoration and protection of its shoreline. The functions, powers, and duties of the committee shall be to advise and make recommendations to the Board of County Commissioners and TDC on matters pertaining to the following: And then it goes A through E; the development and implementation of long-term beach erosion control program within Collier County to include identification of peach -- of beach segments with common erosion and -- and acretion histories, recommendation of beach management strategies for each segment and the development of long-term strategies for areas of chronic erosion. And -- and this is just in my mind's eye is that identification, Page 6 May 29, 2001 as you identify those projects and you become the sounding board for the residents of the county with -- with good ideas for programs, once you determine you want that in your -- in your plan or that it is an applicable project, we'll go out at that process and we'll contract out and get the -- an engineering firm to -- to develop a plan, take a look at the feasibility, take a look at the cost benefits, so that you'll have that information so that you -- it -- it won't be just one of these, "Well, here's the project, and here's what we think the estimate is." We'll basically come back to you with that -- that program and share that information, and then it's basically up to the committee at that juncture if it's a -- if it's an appropriate project or not. Planning and prioritization of capital improvement programs related to coastal issues including recommending alternative funding sources for the development and implementation of coastal management and erosion control projects. We'll look at grants from the State of Florida, the beach erosion control program, and federal navigation and coastal management project. And then C, coordinating with regional and statewide groups that may be necessary to further the goals and policies of Collier County. Outlining the coastal zone management policies and construction procedures for beach renourishment, sediment borrow-site identification~ inlet management plans, inlet improvement projects, dredging -- dredge disposal and -- excuse me -- dredge spoiled disposal site identification, coastal erosion trend evaluation, coastal and estuarine habitat protection and restoration and other similar activities. And then, finally, reporting on innovative proposals by the public and staff. And then that's what I talked about Section 3, I asked that -- that we defer that part that -- that identification of who and how Page 7 May 29, 2001 long the tenures are going to be for the different members until the next meeting. Really, the -- the -- that's something that we can talk about. We've got some time in that process to figure out, if that's all right with you. Then I turn to Section 4 then. Let's turn to Section 5. I will talk about removals. We're just starting. I don't think we want to go there. It's not a good thing to do, but -- but officers and. Quorums, rules of procedures. We've elected a chair and the vice chair. Officers terms shall be for a period of one year with eligibility for reelection. The presence of five or more members shall constitute a quorum so that they can take action in necessary action. The committee shall by majority vote of the entire membership adopt rules and procedures for the transaction of business and shall keep a written record of meetings, resolutions, findings, and determinations -- that's why we have a court reporter here with us today. Copies of all committee minutes, resolutions, reports, and exhibits shall be submitted to the Board of County Commissioners. Section 6, this committee shall be reviewed once every four years in accordance with the procedures contained in the Ordinance 86-41 as amended or its successor ordinance. In the event this ordinance conflicts with any other ordinance of Collier County or other applicable law, the more restrictive shall apply. If any phase or portion of the ordinance is held invalid or unconstitutional by any court of competent jurisdiction, such portions shall be deemed a separate distinct an independent provision, and such holdings shall not affect the validity of the remaining portion. And it goes on and basically says the effective date. Page 8 May 29, 2001 I think the real key is -- is on page 2 where it talks about A through E, which is basically the charter, the charter of the committee. Do I have any questions on the ordinance at all? Okay. The other -- the other issue we need to talk about is -- and we can talk about this at the end or at the beginning is when do we -- how often do we want to meet as a committee as we run through this process. And I know it's new for many folks that are sitting on the dais right now. Something that had come across would be on a monthly basis, and if you want to have it sooner because you want to get a couple of -- a couple of meetings so that we've got a good feel for where we're going in the projects and -- and part of the project review, we'll figure out if we have lots of questions and if we have to come back and review those particular issues, we might want to have a more frequent meeting than once a month. But I throw that at you, and as we finish this meeting, we'll come back to that issue to figure out when our next meeting will be -- when you would like that to happen and what times you'd like it to happen and things like that. MR. GALLENBERG: How often -- I know we have at least two members here that were on the Beach Renourishment Committee. How often did that meeting meet? MR. GRAY: Once a month -- MR. ROELLIG: Once a month we met -- COURT REPORTER: Okay. Wait. I'm going to need for everyone to identify themselves -- MR. ROELLIG: Sorry. COURT REPORTER: -- and speak one at a time. Okay. MR. GALLENBERG: I was, and still am. Gary Gallenberg, asking the question. MR. ROELLIG: David Roellig. We met once a month, the first Page 9 May 29, 2001 Thursday of the month virtually always at 9 a.m., and occasionally we had an afternoon meeting that first Thursday. MR. GALLENBERG: And while the committees aren't exactly the same -- there's substantial overlap -- did you find that that was -- that you have enough to do and not too much to do? MR. ROELLIG: I think it worked out very well. We got our packages a week or so ahead of time, and everyone seemed to be able to get up to speed and cover the agenda. MR. GRAY: Bob Gray. I would like to add that there toward the end we were meeting at one o'clock in the afternoon. I felt like that was more satisfactory. It seemed like when we met at nine o'clock in the morning we were running way past lunchtime. And it just wasn't too workable. MR. GALLENBERG: Is there a feeling including -- including staff advisors, whether -- whether we ought to try for a daytime schedule or whether something like this is more convenient to people? MR. KROESCHELL.' I would prefer a daytime schedule myself. Bill Kroeschell. I would definitely prefer a daytime schedule. MR. STAKICH: If we meet around one -- because of things we have to do at Marco at -- from noon on -- usually meetings, I would say 1:30 would be a much -- fine time, as far as I'm concerned. MR. GALLENBERG: Any others? Tony, I know you have daytime -- MR. PIRES: Daytime is fine, 1:30. Generally, I have--four times a month, at least, on CDDs that I represent and otherwise. Daytime is fine, as far as -- and Tuesday is county commissioner meetings, so I guess we -- MR. GALLENBERG: I think daytime consensus then. Does Thursday work, generally speaking, for everyone? Page10 May 29, 2001 MR. GRAY: Thursday would be great, as far as I'm concerned. MR. STAKICH: Same here. MR. GALLENBERG: So that we'll at least initially -- provided we -- I guess we'll need a motion and a vote proposing Thursdays. And then at I or 1:30, how do we feel about that? MR. GRAY: Either one is okay with me. MR. STAKICH: Ashley and I go to Rotary at twelve. We get out at one. It takes a half hour to get up here. MR. GALLENBERG: Okay. Well, then, if someone wants to make a motion that we'll initially schedule meetings for the first Thursday of each month, and that would commence June 7th. I think that probably works out well timewise. MR. GRAY: I so move. MR. ROELLIG: I will second that. MR. GALLENBERG: All in favor. (Unanimous response.) MR. GALLENBERG: Opposed. (No response.) MR. GALLENBERG: Passes unanimously. One member absent. MR. MR. MUDD: Okay-- GALLENBERG: Colonel Mudd, did -- is it your -- do you think we should go through these -- the various applications this evening, or were they intended more for review? MR. MUDD: I think we need to go through those projects because we went in front of the -- went in front of the TDC, and when we got to this -- to this portion, we laid out the program, and it was all subject to your approval, so I got their approval subject to your approval. I really only asked them for 4.5 million, but if you look at the minutes they gave us up to 8. Maybe it was a slip, but I smiled and looked at everybody else and said, "Now, Page 11 May 29, 2001 what are you-guys going to do, okay, during that meeting?" But -- but really they want to know what your recommendation is for next year's packet. And I -- and I know this is -- this is a short period of time. But if you feel -- if you feel more comfortable with coming back to us on the 7th after you have read these, then we can postpone it until then. Or if-- if you would like to get at it this evening, I have got -- I have got our consultant here that can talk about that process. We can lay out those projects. You might not want to approve them tonight, but you might want to hear the description of the project and what it entails. So that on the seventh you can -- then you can vote on the program. MR. PIRES: Mr. Chairman, just a question for the Chairman, in going through the materials -- and I'm new to this process, so I'll apologize for -- if anyone else has been through the process is much more familiar. I noticed during the questionnaires and the form of the application referenced whether or not the project would further the missions statement. I think that would be helpful to have the missions statement and also possibly to have the TDC guidelines. I understand they have written guidelines for various categories of the tourist development tax. MR. GALLENBERG: Uh-huh. MR. PIRES: And possibly even the tourist development ordinance, even though as Mr. Mudd indicated, it's going to be revamped. I just think that would be helpful and the suggestion of Mr. Mudd that they have a description tonight and a vote at the next meeting, so if it's not time-sensitive projects -- MR. GALLENBERG: Well, I will agree with that and -- and ultimately the Board of County Commissioners has the final say, but if we're not hamstringing their timing process, I -- I would agree. If we could have -- have a relatively brief overview of the different projects tonight, including, perhaps, some of the bigger- Page 12 May 29, 2001 picture items, as Tony just mentioned. And I was thinking, too, briefly the -- if you think it applies, the settlement that has occurred or at least is in the process regarding the beach renourishment -- and the money, I assume, comes back to TDC, or does it go for the general -- MR. MUDD: It goes on -- it goes back to TDC. MR. GALLENBERG: One could go on forever about that depending how technical one wants to get. But I would propose just briefly what impact that has for the funds available for beach renourishment related. MR. MUDD: What -- I would ask you to take a look at the back of your packet real quick, is go to a sheet that looks like this (indicating). Okay. We did -- we did this ten-year budget to -- to make sure as they were -- as people were talking about doing museums and other things that didn't have a whole lot to do with beach, I wanted to make sure that -- that Harry and crew had -- had done -- had done their homework to make sure that we wouldn't get shorted, okay, in our funds in order to do beach renourishment or Category A type -- type of projects. So I had him lay out this process, and what -- what this entails -- the assumption behind it, it's a 5 percent -- a 5 percent increase in revenues and 5 percent increase in -- in cost of project. Just to make it -- 5 percent was a good number at the time, and -- and some folks talked about revenues being a different percentage and projects being another. I said, "Time out. Let's not confuse this system. Let's just keep it one number of revenues and -- and project costs." So we basically laid out the expenses that we have had for -- for the different inlets, and there are six of them that are put down at the time or -- or on the left-hand side under "Expenses." And -- and some of those projects change in quantity based on the historical applications when we had to go -- go in and Page 13 May 29, 2001 dredge that particular pass or that inlet in order to do it, or when we just had to maintain it or monitor it. So you will see things like Wiggins Pass in 2001 only being $70,000, but then in '02 Wiggins Pass has a huge increase of $472,000. And then you can see over the totals at the far end. Tried to concentrate on that to give you some kind of prospective. That $1.3 million will go back into -- will go back into the revenues of-- of the particular fund, to the best of my knowledge. Now, one of the things I'm going to check for sure is I'm going to check with Mr. Weigel, the county attorney, to make sure that I haven't misspoken. But -- but from what I understand, those dollars will come back into the tourist development tax. And that would be a source of revenue and -- and on reserve that would be there for future applications. What I would say to you is you're not hamstrung by this list. Okay. That's another thing that I want to make sure that you know as you sit there. You say, "Why do we need" -- if I took a look at this list and I was sitting in your chair, I'd say, "Okay, why do we need to have a committee? You've got everything laid out." Don't be hamstrung by this list. There are some things that have been habitual that we've had to take a look at, but there is enough flux in this -- in this -- there is enough wiggle room in this project or sheet to just put anything that you need to put in there in order to get into the process. And I think Jon Staiger, Dr. Jon Staiger, will back me up on that. I don't think we've been hamstrung in the past. I just asked him -- asked Harry to put together a sheet to make sure that we weren't going to get shorted as they were talking about changing the tourist development tax and the application in dollars. MR. GALLENBERG: So this is a beginning point from county Page 14 May 29, 2001 staff? MR. MUDD: Absolutely. MR. GALLENBERG: Didn't have input from the former committee or anything like that? MR. MUDD: No. It's just a -- it is a strawman for you to mark out as you're laying out the grandiose plan for the county for beach renourishment. This -- this could become your working document, and we -- we can make changes as we go along into this -- into this process. MR. GALLENBERG: What happens in years -- you know, understanding that naturally it's the county commission that actually sets the budget, but what happens in years where the projected revenues are different than the projected expenses, if, indeed, that happens? I guess it doesn't happen. MR. MUDD: It -- it doesn't happen. If -- if you take a look at -- if-- if you take a look -- let's take a look at that shaded area at the bottom. And this bottom part is the shaded area (indicating), and that is pretty much the way the new tourist development tax ordinance is going to look. And take -- take a look at the carry forward, and I think the only year, at least that I could see, in this projection is 2007 we get a little close -- MR. GALLENBERG: Uh-huh. MR. MUDD: -- by a half million dollars. One of the things that I -- that I -- that's kind of disturbed me a little bit is they always talk about the catastrophe money in case we have the really bad hurricane. In order to get that -- one of the things -- reserves for catastrophe on F -- I had Harry put in $500,000 a year into that fund so that -- that -- that money could -- could start to build up. Right now I think it's about 150,000, in that ballpark. There is not a whole lot there. If we had a -- a significant event, we would have to go out and find 1.5 someplace from reserves, and then leverage that in order to come up with that hypothetical $10 Page 15 May 29, 2001 million that people throw around as far as the figure is concerned. MR. GRAY: In effect that "carry forward" gives you a reserve? MR. MUDD.' Yes, sir. That carry forward is that reserve that's moving; that's just a good way to keep your eye on it. If you keep a look under the carry forward above it in a different scheme as far as the allocation of funds are concerned, you can see that there are some hefty chunks of money that are being carried forward in the tourist development tax. And that was one of the reasons that they -- they wanted -- they, the Board of County Commissioners and the county manager, wanted to take a look at the funds to see how we could allocate it better to some projects that would bring tourist into -- into the -- into Collier County. DR. STAIGER: Jim? MR. MUDD: Sir. DR. STAIGER: Jon Staiger. One of the things that some of you may be aware of and some may not, the State of Florida has a beach management fund that is supposed to have about $30 million a year in it. We have applied annually for support from that fund for the last probably 12 or 14 years. It's only been the last few years that they actually had a dedicated fund with this fixed amount of money in it. But occasionally the state will spring loose with some funds for various projects, and Harry has been very active in applying for that funding support. Part of the process is a -- is a ten-year rolling forward budget that the State wants to see from all of the eligible counties on an annual basis. So -- so they want something with a fair amount of detail for about three or four years, and then in the out years they just want a rather lump-sum type of thing. But it's important for the continued effort to get state. Page 16 May 29, 2001 Funding support that this kind of a spreadsheet is -- is updated and -- and kept as accurate as possible. Because the -- the state has a workshop every spring or early summer when they are putting the Department of Environment Protection beaches and coastal systems people are putting their budget together to go to the legislature the following year, and so Harry has been pretty careful in trying to keep this sort of thing as -- as updated as he can. There are some expenses on here that I -- that I just may talk about a little bit. If you look at, for example, under A, "Inlets Clam Pass," you see the -- you have got fifty-some thousand every couple of years on alternating and then two-hundred-and- some thousand; that's the inlet management plan they're trying to keep maintaining there, causes -- calls for that inlet to be dredged every couple of years, and in the intervening period you've got money in there for monitoring and -- and either -- you know, either monitoring and/or modest dredging events. Doctor's Pass -- similarly, we dredge Doctor's Pass on about a four-year cycle, so that's what the four hundred to five hundred thousand dollar cost estimates are, is the actual dredging. And in between it's the cost of the -- the monitoring that is necessary. Gordon Pass, we're still trying to convince the Corps of Engineers to dredge it, and they might. And if they do, then some of that expense will not have to be undertaken. But the -- as we - - as we progress through discussing these things, presumably when Harry gets back, some of the details of some of these projects can be elaborated. But -- MR. GALLENBERG: Also in your judgment in fundamental -- let's just take Wiggins and Clam, if we might, that -- because of water flows or whatever causes the need to dredge -- that Wiggins -- you know, to keep on equal footing, more or less -- Wiggins does need every two years and Clam Pass, for example, Page 17 May 29, 2001 simply needs every four, is that from a technical basis -- DR. STAIGER: No. MR. GALLENBERG: DR. STAIGER: No. -- are those generated sort of -- or from a political basis? They have -- they actually have inlet management plans that were worked out. And for Wiggins, for example, was having -- used to have to dredge it almost on an annual basis, and they finally got a permit in the last year or two to remove rock that was in the throe of the inlet that keep the -- the dredging contractors from being able to get a deep enough cut, so they have -- they have got that impediment out of the way, so now it should be every two years. And Clam Pass is a very small one that silts shuts very readily so that it has to be dredged more often. It doesn't have any kind of navigation problems with it. It's basically just so that the estuary in there behind the Pelican Bay/Clam Bay preserve area gets reasonable water circulation through it, and they -- this big mangrove die-off that they had up there doesn't get bigger. But all of those inlets; Wiggins, Doctor's, Gordon, Capri, Big Marco, and Caxambas all have formal inlet management plans which have been prepared by consultants and call for certain steps to be done including periodic dredging. At -- at Caxambas they -- they talked about putting in some offshore breakwaters, and that's -- I think there is going to be some more of that done in the next year. Bret or Carl may -- MR. GRAY: Dr. Jon, I would like to ask you a question. You have been involved in these things for many years. Back in March I cut an article out of the paper that alluded to the fact that if a community would come up with 35 percent of the monies required to maintain their beaches, the Corp of Engineers would pay the other 65 percent. Does that ring a bell with you at all? Page 18 May 29, 2001 DR. STAIGER: Yeah. Yeah. We -- we have -- we had, in fact, in the City of Naples a -- an authorized Corps of Engineers Beach Restoration Project, and it was deauthorized because it was never undertaken. It was authorized back in the early '70s. We had the opportunity when this beach management plan was being worked on for the restoration of the Vanderbilt and Park Shore and Naples beaches to ask the Corps of Engineers to participate and, in fact, with Porter Goss's help we had a -- a reconnaissance study done by the Corps, which they paid for. And they concluded that we did need a beach restoration project and that -- that it was something that was doable. The next step in the thing was a feasibility study which cost about a million dollars and has to be cost shared between the Corp and the sponsor, which would have been the Board of County Commissioners. And their time schedule was such that -- this was, I think, about 19 -- 1992 maybe, and it would have been '98 or '99 before they got the project underway. And the -- the beaches in Naples and in Vanderbilt were in such desperate shape that the decision was made by the beach committee and recommended to the Board, and they then endorsed it, to not pursue the Corps project because it would just take too long. And rather than spend $500,000 on a reconnaissance they would rather spend the money on -- on furthering the permitting effort that was underway at the time. About the same time that that all went on, Clinton got elected president, and he pulled the plug on all the Corps of Engineers beach projects for a period of some years. So that the -- the -- their whole effort at being major beach restorations was sort of stymied. The Corps was anxious to continue doing some of them, and they have kept up with -- with the maintenance of the ones that they built some years ago, but they haven't undertaken very Page19 May 29, 2001 many new projects. They're now talking about instead of being a -- a 65 percent, 35 percent split making it 50/50. And there is some maneuvering between the Corps and Congress over that sort of thing. But we could always go back to the Corps and try to get them interested in helping us maintain the beach. I don't think that's an impossibility. The difficulty we had in the past was that there -- their program stretches this whole decision-making process out over so many years that we just didn't want to wait. And we were lucky because basically all the projects that were in the hopper got put on hold while the Clinton administration was in power. MR. GRAY: So it would be possible that we could in effect, run into a stumbling block because of having to wait for bureaucracy to work? DR. STAIGER: Yeah. Well, the thing is, though, the -- the state monies -- and much of what the legislature is concerned about in -- in having the state funds granted to -- to a thing like. Collier County is they want to see it matched with some federal money. So if we could get some federal participation -- participation, that gives us a step up in getting some state support as well, which then reduces the local government's piece of it; so that's something that I think there's -- should be pursued. MR. MUDD: Jon, if I can interject real quick -- I'm Jim Mudd, for the record -- I have a little bit of experience with the Corps of Engineers. The recon studies done in six months, it's 100 percent federally funded. If you say you want a project, they will take that process on -- normally takes them a year to get it on their program. Now, I want you to take a look at - under FY-2006 on -- on your sheet. I want you to go down to B-2 on the left-hand side Page 20 May 29, 2001 where it says "Construction." Collier County, City of Naples, six million -- 6.1 million dollars; that's the next big dredge -- hydraulic dredge event to put -- put sand on a large portions of-- of-- large portions of the beach that we have. If you wanted to start now, we could call it ticklers or whatever you want -- you could send -- I can call Greg May, who is a good friend up in Jacksonville, and say, "Greg, they want -- they want to start looking at a recon for a project in 2006." He could get that on his schedule. Do the recon -- recon looks for two things -- two results from a reconnaissance study; do you have a cost-share partner, and does it have -- does the benefits exceed the cost, okay, for the project; that's what they're -- they're basically looking for. Is there a federal interest in the project? And if the benefits exceed the cost, then there is. Then you go into a feasibility study. It's a 50/50 cost share with the partner. Now, you can -- you can get that 50/50 with in-kind service if you want. In other words, if you have a firm or you have in-house engineers that you want to put on that, you can get some credit in order to do that process as they do their study. But, again, it's 50 percent federal and 50 percent cost-share partner. The reason they want to know if they've got a cost share partner is when you go to the feasibility study you have to figure out whose going to pay half the bill -- pretty smart group of folks; either that or they have been stiffed before, okay. So at the end of the feasibility study, you get preliminary engineering and design. It's not full up, but you have an inkling about what the project is going to cost, where it's going to go, what the -- start with the permit requirements in that process and Ron -- or Jon is right; it can be upwards of a million dollars in that feasibility. Then when you get to execution it's 65/35 right now. There's been talk on the hill that it go 50/50. President Bush has Page 21 May 29, 2001 said "We want it to flip. We want it to be 35 federal, 65 local." What -- what I would say if it goes that way -- if you start getting 50/50 or you get the inverted cost share where it's 35 federal and 65 -- the feds don't like beach renourishment, okay, for some strange reason. It keeps getting into tourism, okay, and they have real problems with that. They don't have the picture of the -- the poor family sitting there flooded out, okay, with all of their belongings washed away. You just don't get that kind of mental image, so it's tough for them to leverage the -- the federal dollars in order to do that. But if you get the cost share switched, timing is right for Collier County to get on that bandwagon. At this juncture we're going to get nothing in the past. If we can get 35 percent of six million dollars, that's -- that's not a bad exchange for us. And what you'll get are you'll get other communities along the coast that will balk at the new cost share, and that -- they'll bump themselves off the list, so then those monies get freed up. So I would say to you is -- as that conversation transpires on the Hill, our opportunities get more abundant -- and if they do switch it. But to do the recon, we can ask the question, and if you get to the recon part and they start giving you some information and you don't like the way it's going, you can bow out because that's 100 percent federally funded. So that's no -- that's no -- it doesn't really cost us anything to have -- MR. GALLENBERG: In very basic terms in your numbers, the county would -- would be betting in round figures half a million dollars in cash or in kind in order to get shared funding of two to three -- MR. MUDD: Only if you want -- MR. GALLENBERG: -- of the project. MR. MUDD: -- to go to feasibility with them. If you go to recon and they -- they say there is no federal interest -- Page 22 May 29, 2001 MR. GALLENBERG: Then it dies there. MR. MUDD: -- it dies. MR. GALLENBERG: If you go to the next step, you still don't have the funding, but you have got to put out in effect, using these numbers, half a million to get your shot at two or three million? MR. MUDD: That's right. MR. ROELLIG: Well, I might add also, from my perspective as a retired Corps of Engineers, the other thing that is a possibility and has happened a number of times -- I think we call it a section number in the law -- obviously, the reimbursement by the federal government as authorized by Congress -- some years they don't authorize as much money, but there is a possibility of getting reimbursed. If you spend your money for the construction up-front, in accordance with the plan, then you can apply for reimbursement at a later date. So if for some reason you don't make 2006 if we spent the money in 2006, possibly get reimbursed in 2007 or whenever Congress appropriates the sufficient money to cover these type of projects. MR. MUDD: Make -- make sure you have got an authorized project that has been authorized by the Water Resource -- they call it, Word of the Water Resources Development Act -- they normally come on even years, and that your project has been authorized in that process, and if it has been and it's through the feasibility, then your chances are a whole lot better to be reimbursed -- MR. ROELLIG: Right. MR. MUDD: -- for your share if, for instance, the appropriation dries up that year. The other -- the other program the Corps has in beach renourishment and maintenance and things like that it's -- it's one of the chiefs continuing authorities. And now you're asking Page 23 May 29, 2001 me for a number which I didn't have. I said that I would bring my briefcase because I -- MR. ROELLIG: Because it-- MR. MUDD: -- keep their little cheat sheet in there. But -- but the continuing authorities process is a whole lot slicker, and it's a lot quicker than the long-term fees -- or the recon feasibility and then the project. This one you basically cut your. Time periods down to two years from the time they look at it until the time that it actually gets constructed. And it -- it's a 65/35 cost share. They do a -- a quick-and-dirty recon -- they call it something else. It's a DRP, which is the final design report, for -- for plan or whatever it is, and then they get into the construction, and -- and they can leverage a million bucks. Their federal share on -- on continuing authorities for a beach renourishment project under that is -- is a thousand federal -- and if they're bringing in 65; so you're having a project that is about 1.4 to 1.6 million dollars in total to be constructed, and you can get at those kind of dollars too. And, basically, that is, you get yourself on a list, and they go down the list and you're next. But there are some opportunities there and -- in 2003 to leverage some of that, if we need to -- or any project. It could be a habitual maintenance project that you want to get them to -- to look at. It's a way to leverage your dollars to spread them out to get more projects that you want. And I don't think it really hurts us to try, and I'll -- I'll see what I can do. MR. KROESCHELL: Well, I'm in agreement with that. The other point that I can make that they made decide to break up the coastline of Collier County -- the segments where some will be congressionally authorized, the big projects, and the small independent projects, maybe there would be something on Marco Island that wouldn't impact the general Collier County coastline that could go under the so-called small project authority so that Page 24 May 29, 2001 we can work that out with the Jacksonville district. MR. MUDD: Sure. MR. GRAY: Mr. Chairman, I -- I just brought that up because it did come to my attention. I really don't think at this meeting we probably should go in to depth on it. I think -- I just wanted to get it on the table. It is something for this committee to look at because there is a -- you know, a tremendous amount of money here that we could tap into. MR. GALLENBERG: I think that's right. And this kind of gets back a little bit to Mr. Pires' point, at the next meeting, perhaps, we can have -- while the function of this meeting is -- is technical in nature, as we get started, maybe staff can give us a presentation, as you said earlier, about, you know, what are TD funds exactly, what can they be used for, and some other funding sources, such as what we've just been discussing. MR. MUDD.' Yes, sir. Without further ado, let's see if we can't get into some of these project descriptions for you. As we - - so that you will have something to ponder here over the next week or so. The first thing on the -- in your packet is for $213,000, and that basically pays the salaries of a Project Manager III, which Harry Huber is sitting in right now; a Project Manager I, which we are out advertising in Collier County; a Construction Inspector that goes out and looks at the projects to make sure that we're getting what we paid for and -- and I can't tell you the history of the construction inspector -- and maybe Dr. Staiger can help us a little bit on this one. I don't know if this was as a result of the rocks on the beach or-- DR. STAIGER: Yeah. The -- I think that was the genesis of it. The construction inspector right now is Al Madson, and he's sitting back there in the back of the room. But the gentleman goes out on a very frequent basis and runs the length of the Page 25 May 29, 2001 beach in a vehicle looking for problem areas, whether they are rock outcrops or escarpments or whatever needs to be dealt with so that the county's beach cleaning equipment can address these problems and then, of course, during something like the more recent episode where we trucked thirty-thousand yards of sand onto. The Park Shore Beach and about, I think, fifteen or twenty thousand down to Hideaway. His -- his role includes bouncing back and forth between those two projects and making sure they're being done properly. And I think -- I don't think we had that position until this rock issue became to the forum. I'm not sure how long. I think it has been the last couple of years. MR. MUDD: I would -- I would say from a construction aspect it's well worth the cost of that individual to make sure that you're getting what the heck that you paid for. We have -- we've got some experience -- bad experience. And it is one of those -- it's one of those issues, "You can pay me now or you can have -- pay me later. But when you pay me later, you are going to pay me a whole heck of a lot more than you would if you took that ounce of prevention." There is the construction inspector and there is overtime in there and overhead. I've got a figure on the -- on the sheet that says it's $213,300. When I talked to Harry before, he's got some - - he took a look at the salary aspect, and it's up to 280,200. But I'm going to wait until Harry gets back so he can define what those increases are, okay. I just noticed there was a difference as I was going through the numbers. So he's got to tell you what the $66, 900 are in the difference in that process. But this is Exhibit A, which we represented to the TDC as a strawman in the process, and I just wanted to talk about what the -- what those figures are so you have an idea. And in the last page of that packet normally breaks down what those dollars are Page 26 May 29, 2001 used for kind of in a short summary, in case you just got this packet today. The Project Manager I position was added last year to be -- to be -- to be filled this year. What's that all about? It's more eyes on target, more people watching the project, okay, because you've got 30-some-odd miles of beach. You can't be everywhere at one time. And so you've got another person out there watching the projects that are going on and making sure that you've got monitoring. And another -- another piece to that is, maybe we can contract less out in particular areas and -- and have this person to take a look at some cross-sections and things like that, so we can cut some cost on that side of the house and still have enough folks to make sure we've got a good program that -- that works out. I would tell you from -- if it wasn't for Dr. Staiger and the help from the City of Naples in this process and the help from the City of Marco Island with their -- with their other committee, we would have been strapped in years past, because we have been doing this on a shoestring. And so we're feeling it out a little bit better to make sure that we've got good execution. And one of the things that Dr. Staiger mentioned, yes, we put -- we put 41 tons -- excuse me -- 41,000 cubic yards of material out on -- out on those beaches, and -- and there wasn't a word heard, nor were there rocks, nor were there any lawsuits, and that's good news. There is another nine -- 9,000 cubic yards that we have on hold in case we have some severe erosion during this hurricane season that we can bring to bear in order to take care of that. But we plan to have multiple contractors with sand that's been approved by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection that you've had the opportunity to sample -- hopefully, not taste -- and -- that you've seen and it meets all the specs and -- and that they're waiting, and then we -- Page 27 May 29, 2001 instead of having one source and do it in a hurry -- I always chuckle the -- the reason -- the reason that this is here is because of sunshine, sand, and surf; that's why tourists come. And you have to do beach renourishment around the three Ts, which are tourist, tarpons, and turtles, and so that gives us about a 90-day window of a 360-day year to put sand on the beach or do any major construction. And you get a little bit of time in the fall and a little bit of time in the spring in order to do that, so it's limited. So you really have got to have your projects ready to go, permits in hand, in order to get at that stuff in those short periods of time. And then you do need those -- those eyes that are watching to make sure we are getting our monies worth and somebody isn't taking a shortcut. MR. GRAY: Is that 9,000 that's in reserve, did that come from the $50,000 that was bought? MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. MR. GRAY: Okay. MR. MUDD: And that's -- that's paid for. All we have to do is say when we want it. DR. STAIGER: Jim, one -- one additional point, on this first item, which is the staff management fees, for the first five or six years of use of this tourist tax, these -- these fees were charged on each individual project as a -- as a percentage, and the beach committee asked Harry to just put it into basically one -- one application because it's -- it's essentially a full-time job for several people and to try to allocate it, you know, little bits and pieces through all of the projects seemed awful awkward; so it's -- it's essentially the staff support that the county needs to get these projects managed. And it -- it just made more sense to the committee five or six years ago or so to stop putting it in as a line item in each one of the projects and just have a separate budget for that staff support because it is essentially a couple of Page 28 May 29, 2001 full-time staff members. And it just -- it just seemed a lot cleaner to do that, so that's why you have this one application for -- for that item. MR. GALLENBERG: It's not-- MR. ROELLIG: It's not the first time, as you indicated -- DR. STAIGER: Yeah, it's-- MR. ROELLIG: -- it's ongoing. And I don't recall the dollars last year, but -- DR. STAIGER: Yeah. Last three or four years, I think. MR. ROELLIG: Right. Right. MR. MUDD: Any questions on that -- on that first -- that first sheet. Then we will go to the second case which is Wiggins Pass Inlet Management. It's for $472,000. MR. GRAY: I have a question. On the fiscal years that were shown on the big ten-year chart, is that October through September? MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. MR. GRAY: Okay. MR. MUDD: Based on the fiscal year. MR. GRAY: That's the county's fiscal year, October through September? MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. MR. PIRES: Mr. Mudd, maybe I won't have these questions once we go over the other materials, but part of one of the questions indicates on page 3 of the application -- and all the applications -- is that the proposed project required by regulatory agency as a condition for approval/funding the Collier County Beach Restoration Project. As to this one as to Wiggins Pass, it says "Yes," without any further detail or back-up described. Would that be provided at some point? I'm not sure what that "yes" means in the context of the Page 29 May 29~ 2001 professional services and construction activities for Wiggins Pass and the management plan. Some of the projects I think I can sort of ferret it out. This one I'm not sure that I understand. DR. STAIGER: It's -- it's called for by the Wiggins Pass Inlet Management Plan. And -- and that question is, is it part of the ongoing beach restoration project or past maintenance/dredging management project; that's the thing. All of these inlet management projects have a -- an inlet management plan that they are implementing and -- and so that's -- they're all essentially called for in the inlet management plan, either -- either out-year monitoring or periodic actual dredging and the engineering work that goes with the dredging. And that's what this one -- this one is for, is actually maintenance dredging of Wiggins Pass and the engineering that goes with that. MR. PIRES: And the inlet management plan is part of a permit that was issued by regulatory agency -- DR. STAIGER: Yeah. MR. PIRES: -- or governmental agency? DR. STAIGER: Yeah. The DEP some years ago indicated that they wanted to have these inlet management plans done for all the inlets they were going to permit periodic dredging for, and the -- the -- the sword hanging over everybody's head was, if you didn't have an approved plan, you had a lot harder time getting a permit to do -- to do the dredging. All the plan really did was say, "Okay, this is how much sand that is going into the inlet, and this is how much sand we have to take out of it." And there is a state law called the Swim Bill that says you have to bypass as much sand down drift as normally would do it if you didn't have the inlet there. So that's -- the whole thing is to make sure that the sand keeps moving in the system. And those plans are all in place. Humiston & Moore did one or two of them, Coastal Page 30 May 29, 2001 Engineering Consultants did a couple of them, SubOceanic Consultants they have -- they have been done by various groups of consultants around this area. But we have an active inlet management plan for every one of those inlets. MR. PIRES: And, again, you know, I don't mean to be redundant; the inlet management plan becomes part of the actual permit is a condition of the permits -- DR. STAIGER: Well, they're -- they're -- MR. PIRES: -- that is issued by the agency? DR. STAIGER: I think they're referred to in the permits, or the permit application itself refers to whatever the -- the sand budget is what it's referred to as. But what the sand budget calls for in bypassing is what the permit applicant is talking about satisfying in the dredging activity. MR. MUDD: Okay. Now, we can get -- we can get the members of the -- of the committee copies of the plans, if you -- if you so desire. And I -- anybody from -- how big are they? Carl, can you help me? A couple of inches thick? MR. GALLENBERG: I think we have enough papers as it is. MR. ROELLIG: Yeah. One for each -- MR. MUDD: If you -- if you have an interest, we can -- we can get those for you, okay. I'm not going to say that we're going to deliver them for you, but we can bring them out or wherever you would like to -- to put those and -- and take a look at the process. Just maybe it -- maybe it would be good to just have one or two of them at the next meeting so you can thumb through them and kind of see what they are. If you don't have experience with them, we can bring a couple of them in, this one in particular so that you have an idea of -- of what they consist of and how detailed they are. MR. GALLENBERG: I think that would be good as part of -- with maybe start calling it our general orientation -- Page 31 May 29, 2001 MR. MUDD.' Sure. MR. GALLENBERG: -- that we can address next time. MR. STRAPPONI: Mr. Chairman. Jack Strapponi. Apparently these strand applications are pretty much a standard form. As I looked at them, they all have the same questions. And my question was -- and on the last page -- the second-to-the-last page prior to the project budget breakdown it says -- the last line it says, "Has the project been reviewed and recommended by the Beach Renourishment Maintenance Advisory Committee?" Is it my understanding that that committee no longer exists and was replaced by this committee. MR. GALLENBERG: That's my understanding, yes. MR. STRAPPONI.' Is that correct? MR. MUDD: And the way that he answered -- yes, sir. And the way that he answered him is "Yes, this application will be considered by the Coastal Advisory Committee upon implementation of their regularly scheduled meeting." They haven't changed the -- the form to bring the Coastal Advisory Committee, so -- so Harry put this -- put this process in, and the recommendation would come under separate cover. So -- MR. STRAPPONI: I take it in the future this application will actually change? MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. MR. GALLENBERG: And in the changeover of one committee to the next these were or were not reviewed by the former committee? MR. MUDD.' These were not reviewed. MR. GALLENBERG: Were not -- were not. So it's just a typo, a matter of -- MR. MUDD: That's right. Well, this -- this basically was submitted before -- these things have a submittal time a lot -- a lot sooner than this meeting. And the TDC that looked at this Page 32 May 29, 2001 process happened in the first part of April, so it would have been the February/March time frame when they would have been reviewed. One of the -- one of the reasons -- and -- and Harry Huber asked me, he said, "Do you want to take this in front of the Beach Renourishment Committee?" I said, "Well, you know, it would be a -- be a shame to get a Coastal Advisory Committee that comes up -- you get them organized, you get them sitting there, and then they all look at each other for a year because somebody else approved their program." I said, "That wouldn't be fair to them either. So why don't we just" -- it was a little cumbersome with the TDC to say, "Hey, it hasn't been approved, but here it is. I want you to see it as part of the overall package for the $9 million." I wanted to make sure we had a placeholder there, that we didn't lose those dollars. But I didn't want to do a disservice to this committee and not give you the opportunity to review that application and -- and if there are any changes to be made or any additions to be made, that we could do that. MR. ROELLIG: I believe some of the applications from the City of Naples were approved by the former committee. DR. STAIGER: Yeah. The -- the two applications in there were. They were approved by the committee in March, but the rest of these were in prep at the time. MR. MUDD: This project maybe Humiston & Moore your rep - - do you -- do you have anything to say about Wiggins Pass Inlet Management? MR. MOORE: No, not right now. MR. MUDD: Okay. Basically what I'm gathering from the last page, professional services are coming into the tune of $72,000; and that's an estimate, and then construction of the maintenance dredging is 400,000. This price isn't -- isn't Page 33 May 29, 2001 necessarily set in concrete because you haven't awarded the contracts yet. So we can -- we can get underbids, but this is a budgeted amount. We're in the ballpark. Next project is Sea Turtle Monitoring, and there was -- there was a question in -- and -- and I'd ask our -- I will call you the Sea Turtle specialist. Could you please come forward. There was some questions at the TDC meeting, why do we do sea turtle monitoring? And it was -- it was a pretty good exchange that was transpiring. Some folks on -- on -- on this committee know why there is sea turtle monitoring and some don't. And I'd ask you to be so very kind to -- to give them the specifics of why this program exists. MS. KRAUSE: I'm Myra Krause, Senior Enviromental Specialist for the Collier County Natural Resource Development. And I did bring a letter with me that I have prepared for the tourist development committee, and it does explain why we need sea turtle monitoring. And it also has a -- I have got a copy for everyone -- it has a chart in the back that goes over every -- that goes over the different projects of beach. Nourishment, inlet management plans, et cetera. And the sea turtle permit requirements seem like they're getting a -- more and more intricate every year. There's different beach compaction studies that have to be done, including the normal sea turtle monitoring and quite a bit of reporting to the state and the federal government. And the chart pretty much goes through the major projects, and the -- the date of permit expiration on them. So sea turtle monitoring is required by -- they are protected. They are a protected species under the Endangered Species Act and also under the state acts. And if you-all would like I will prepare a formal presentation for you at one of your future meetings explaining more about the program and -- and we'll also take Page 34 May 29, 200t someone out -- if you-all would like to come out with us one morning monitoring, just let us know, and we can take you out and show you exactly what we do. Any questions? MR. STRAPPONI: I have a question. In your program I guess the nesting period is predictable season-wise. And this was probably obvious, but when we do get into renourishment, that's planned around that season so it doesn't interfere with? And what impact does that have after the fact -- after we've replenished, turtles come back to a -- to a new environment? Does it seem to have any impact? MS. KRAUSE: Well, we've done a lot of different types of beach renourishment. In the past we have used upland sands -- several sources of upland sand, hydraulic renourishment. In the beginning with the 1996, the major renourishment -- and also the 1999 Marco Island renourishment -- the nesting on the renourished beaches did go down for the first year, and incrementally we see the nesting coming back to normal. The sand that we just used on the Park Shore Beach, we have seven nests already -- on Park Shore and Hideaway. We are hoping that this new sand source will have less impact than some of the other ways we have done beach renourishment in the past. MR. STRAPPONI: Was that hydraulic or was that upland sand? MS. KRAUSE: No. This is our new upland sand. It's brand new. We have never been -- used this type of sand before, and sea turtles really seem to like it, so we are quite excited about that. And there are certain projects that do occur during sea turtle nesting, and they require -- we have Hideaway Beach going on right now -- a dredging project and a renourishment project, and it required additional monitoring and incidental tape permit from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, biological opinions -- and Page 35 May 29, 200t there's -- there is quite a lot involved when do you do a project during sea turtle season. But it's been -- the county's experience in the past is that if you do it outside of season, there's a lot less permitting requirements, and it's easier to get a job permitted. MR. STRAPPONI: How long is the season? MS. KRAUSE: The season is officially from May 1st to October 31st. However, depending on the project if we're done early -- we know when the sea turtles nest, et cetera, et cetera, then the state and feds do give us a little bit of leeway in the October part of it. Many projects have also extended beyond the May 1st, and we start monitoring a month early -- beach and nourishment projects we start monitoring a month early, and the state usually gives us a permit extension to work the first couple of weeks in the nesting season. MR. MUDD: You get about 30 days wiggle room in the beginning and the end. MR. STRAPPONI: Have you ever had a situation where we are in the middle of a replenishment and the contractor was running behind schedule? What do you do? Stop the project? MS. KRAUSE: If you don't get -- don't get that permit extension, yes. But in the past we -- the permit -- you know, you contract with the contractors, and they have to have everything off the beach by April 30th or April 15th. I think the state is trying to open their windows up for sea turtles a little bit, and one month to finish the project has been enough in the past. MR. STRAPPONI: Typically, Jim, do those contracts have penalty clauses in them if they don't -- MR. MUDD: Yes. MR. STRAPPONI: -- complete by a certain time? MR. MUDD: Yes. And one of the things we need to look at as a county-wide in our organization, not only beach -- beach Page 36 May 29, 2001 contracts and all the other contracts -- is make sure they are stiff enough in order to get their attention. When it's only $2,000 a day, and it's a multi-million dollar project, you know, that doesn't really get your attention. It's "So -- so charge me, okay, I will catch you on something else." I'm just telling you the way they work. And so -- then there is enough site-condition changes out there that they'll get the days back. You just need to get their attention a little bit with a -- with a bigger hammer. It's just one of the things we're doing in all of our contracts are looking at the penalty issues. At the same time you look at penalties, you should have some incentives in there too, incentive clauses to get them done early, especially if you want to get through that process. MR. GRAY: Usually the courts will hold that if you have a penalty clause you have to have a clause up front for rewarding. MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. MR. ROELLIG: I might also add that Myra does a very nice annual report on the entire county beaches, so this funds also the end report. And I might also add, on beach renourishment there are cases like the Park Shore where there probably would not have been turtle nests in certain locations because during high tides the water went up to the vertical seawall. So with the added sands, you actually provided nesting opportunities which wouldn't have been there otherwise. MS. KRAUSE: A couple of those nests are in areas that did not have a beach several months ago. MR. ROELLIG: Right. MS. KRAUSE: Yeah. MR. KROESCHELL: Bill Kroeschell. I have a question for Myra. You're -- you're a full-time employee of the county; is that right? MS. KRAUSE: Yes, I am, sir. Page 37 May 29, 2001 MR. KROESCHELL: Do you have any help in this project? MS. KRAUSE: Actually, my -- my funding of me is not included in this application. MR. KROESCHELL: Oh. MS. KRAUSE: It funds -- we have two permanent staff, and we also have two temporary part-time staff. We have some volunteers and we also have an intern that helps us with data entry. But we have a lot of data entry. It also includes all of our equipment and --just everything; administration of the project. MR. KROESCHELL: And your salary is not included? MS. KRAUSE: No, it is not, sir. MR. KROESCHELL: Do you have any -- any other responsibilities for the county other than the sea turtle project? MS. KRAUSE: Sea turtles, beach renourishment. We do do beach-legging compliance that is not part of this application; public awareness, budget, and just regular administrative duties. MR. KROESCHELL: Okay. MR. PIRES: Mr. Mudd, as far as the $134,400 requested, does it show or not show up on the spreadsheet in the back? I think I missed it. Or is it part of some other aspect? MR. MUDD: I think it's part of the beach maintenance, the incremental beach maintenance, the dune structure miscellaneous, and the -- the beach raking. MR. PIRES: Okay. MR. MUDD: He's got it in -- he's got it sitting in there, but I -- I -- let me draw your attention to -- I think -- let me -- let me go back on that. Take a look at Section D. You remember I said I had a difference in -- in this submission of two-thirteen and two- eighty and change, and I said Harry will have to talk to you about that process when he get's back; that's where it's sitting right there, okay, in his estimate. So it's sitting on D-l, project maintenance fees, administration. Page 38 May 29, 2001 DR. STAIGER.' The program that Collier County has had working on sea turtles is been underway for quite a few years, and it has received a lot of applause and praise from the environmental community, which -- which I know -- in some cases I know some people on the TDC don't particularly enjoy that. But the fact is that it's an outstanding program, and it has produced a lot of very, very useful data, among other things, because a lot of people assume that if you renourish a beach you automatically destroy its usefulness for turtle nesting, and the fact is that our beach renourishments have demonstrated that the turtles will come back to the renourished beach and over time nest again. And so Myra -- the report that she produces every year, which summarizes all the data on nesting and false crawls and numbers of eggs that hatch versus didn't and all of that kind of stuff is -- is data that is very, very reliable data and data that is used by a lot of people who do turtle research because it's hard to find a lot of those -- those data that are reliable with a good amount of credibility behind them. So the program has been very well received. And the permitting agency is just -- you know, they don't want you to do anything on the beach without knowing what's going on with the turtles, and it isn't -- it isn't going to get any better. It's going to be that -- they're going to be that strict, if not more so. MS. KRAUSE: Any other questions? Thank you. MR. GALLENBERG: Colonel Mudd, one thing if the -- if the other members think this might be a good idea, we've got 22 projects listed here, and maybe we don't need to spend a lot of time on -- on each one of them this evening since we'll have the opportunity to June 7. Maybe of these there are some that are -- one might regard as routine and recurring in nature, last year the budget was X, this year it's X plus 2 percent. And then if members have specific questions tonight about some of the Page 39 May 29, 2001 projects, or conversely, since we're just getting geared up, if there are certain things that either you or Dr. Staiger feel that should be pointed out, then we'll be able to take that knowledge home -- MR. MUDD: Okay. MR. GALLENBERG: -- and deal with it again on what I would call our first regular meeting on June 7th. MR. GALLENBERG: Incremental beach maintenance is a million dollars. That's pretty much what we've been doing. In the process we've spent in the $900,000 range this last year. It has got the 5 percent in it. It's basically planned to put 50,000 cubic yards on the beach again this year. And -- and I can't tell you right now if the specifics on where it's going to be put have been -- have been delineated yet. Dr. Staiger, I don't think so. I think the money has just been budgeted. It's -- it's a habitual process and -- and that's one of the things that is up -- up to this committee to -- to point out where it's needed the most on the beach. And we need to give you some staff input on that and whatever your -- your constituents supply to you. Beach cleaning operations is for -- the next one is $210,000. It -- we basically have three rakes now, three operators; one on Marco, one in the City of Naples, and one in the unincorporated part of the county. And they go out on a daily basis and rake the beach, clean the beach. There is a program with the City of Naples now. If Dr. Staiger gets word from one of his scouts out on the beach that he sees rocks, he'll report that in. And we'll get it to the beach-cleaning folks, and they'll go out there and pick 'em up and get them out of the way in case they get washed up where they appear -- in that process. So that -- that seems to be working quite well and -- and by getting the -- by getting the three dedicated tractors and rakes and things like that seems to Page 40 May 29, 2001 work a lot better. They only used to have two, and they had to switch them back and forth, and having them located in those -- in those positions seems to work out a lot better. Dr. Staiger, can you add anything to that? DR. STAIGER: Uh, well, one thing the -- the part of the -- uh, I don't know if you would call it a settlement or conclusion of the -- of the discussions between the county and the -- the state on the rock-on-the-beach issue is that we have this equipment available to deal with the rock issue and -- and that is the conclusion that the state came to, I believe, was that you have done enough excavation and -- and shifting, and now what little rock shows up, when and if it does, you can deal with this -- this equipment. So there is one piece of equipment that actually sits at the city's public workyard. And if there is any kind of a problem on the beach at Vanderbilt or -- or the city those -- those machines are used, and that's part of our arrangement with the State to kind of settle this -- this whole permit-violation business of the rocks on the beach. MR. MUDD: The next piece on beach-cleaning equipment, it's basically a new rake that is needed on one of the tractors; that's the majority of it, and there are some incidentals like a compressor and whatnot. Number 7, beach inlet maintenance -- maintenance activities. I would ask you to just draw your attention to page 5 of the application. It's a series of -- it's a series of maintenance activities to -- to take a look at -- at two events for post-storm, beach grading, beach tailoring, dune maintenance, repairing T- groins, channel markers, and breakwaters. It's pretty much a routine process that transpires every year. The next issue is a -- is $471,000 for annual monitoring; that's -- that's a normal process that transpires every year. One Page 41 May 29, 2001 of the things that we want to look at in the out years is to see if we can't use the folks that go out there and do sea turtle monitoring to see if we can't teach them how to do some cross- sections and provide them with some training so they can get some eyes and ears out there. We can start reducing some of the contracted amounts that we have there and -- and see if we can't get the maximum amount of efficiencies out of the people that we have that are already under -- on the county payroll to make sure that they're doing a little bit more into that issue. And I have had some conversations with natural resources here in Collier County to see if we can't train those sea turtle folks -- I mean, for -- for a good seven to eight months of the year they are out intensely looking at turtles and turtles nesting and things like that. If there is some erosion or whatnot that transpires out there, then they can report those and hopefully give some of those measurements so we don't have to contract and put a contractor out doing the same things. There are some ways we can gain some efficiencies to do that process. Seems like to me -- seems like a lot of money to be paying for monitoring, and maybe we can take some dollars out of -- out of that pot in the future. Next application is for Hideaway Beach Renourishment. We did a little bit this year. This is a more robust project -- how much, Mr. Moore? Any help with this one? MR. MOORE: For the record, Brent Moore with Humiston & Moore Engineers. This is the area where we have two T-groin fields that have been installed on. Hideaway Beach, and we have been monitoring those. They're constructed out of sandbags because that's -- that was the first installation, and they wanted to review that performance. So through the years it's been truck hauling operations, and Page 42 May 29, 2001 there has been some of these temporary structures placed in the area where we have the highest erosion stress. Um, it's a very diagnostic system. Coconut Island has been migrating substantially. And we are trying to look at what's -- what's going to be the future for Hideaway Beach. Now, if we don't do anything and the temporary structures come out, then what are the property owners going to do? They are probably going to just erect seawalls along the whole length, and there goes the beach. So we are looking at and recommending to the county that they look at a larger-scale maintenance project or renourishment project to really add some sand to the system. And the other projects that we have been working on the state has acknowledged that there will be the need for some structures in the higher erosion areas to try to work in conjunction with the nourishment. So this is a step to kind of look at the Hideaway Beach along. Big Marco Pass as a whole, which really needs to be done so MR. MUDD: I draw your attention to the last page again. This isn't basically putting any sand on the beach; this is basically making sure that we have a plan so that when we're ready to put sand on the beach we are able to do it. As he mentioned before, this is a complicated issue. Because if you have got -- you've got a migration of an island that is moving. When you have an island that is moving down the channel, then it makes it very difficult to figure out if the T-groins are working because the one that you used to have there that was protecting it is now exposed, and it's not doing the job that you had. There's things that people can talk about chevrons in the middle of the channel where they hold -- hold the sand in that process. They did -- on this island they did some exotic species Page 43 May 29, 2001 removal, and it -- it has caused the island to move even quicker as far as its erosion pattern is concerned. So there's -- it's a complicated issue. It's just not something easy to do and, "Oh, by the way, we're just going to go out there and -- and put the sand on the beach." You can put it there, but is it going to stay there? So they're taking a good hard look at this complicated problem because it has a lot to do with The Conservacy and some -- and some other folks and what they are trying to protect. MR. GALLENBERG: What is sand search for $130,0007 MR. MUDD: What they are going to do is go find -- out there in the offshore, they're going to take a look and -- and survey a place that has sand that meets the specification that can be hydraulically dredged and put on the beach, sir. MR. STRAPPONI: Excuse me. You talked about removal from these -- this pine removal here. Is that the Australian pines that were removed? Why were they removed? Because they are foreign? MR. MUDD: Exotic species. Somebody -- I don't know the history. Dr. Staiger, I'm talking out of turn. DR. STAIGER: That island belongs to the -- it's part of the Rookery Bay Reserve. And the -- they had a ma]or program over the last few years to remove all the exotics from Key Island, and they -- they also took the all the Australian pines off of Cannon Island and -- and there was an awful lot of vegetation there that seemed to be stabilizing that if it's gone -- they have planted other things; seagrapes and stuff like that in its place, but that was done by the -- by the Rookery Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve did it. And there was an awful lot of concern raised from Hideaway Beach and other areas on Marco Island about it because it -- it was -- seemed to be providing a certain amount of storm protection to Hideaway Beach, and if the island keeps maneuvering around in that inlet, the storm protection Page 44 May 29, 2001 shifts. So it's -- Mr. Steniker, I think is the -- who lives in Hideaway, and he's very familiar with all of that stuff. But that was not something that was undertaken by the county. It was undertaken by the research reserve. MR. STRAPPONI: Jon, was the county consulted or brought into the loop what their intentions were? DR. STAIGER: I think there was -- I think there was a certain amount of information transferred. I'm not sure whether there was any permission asked or anything like that. I mean, I know that they did -- they let us know they were going to be a bunch of tree removal on Key Island, and then they went ahead and did it. I don't -- don't remember. It has been several years ago. But it was in -- in some ways a public relations disaster for the reserve because a lot of people were unhappy about it. MR. STRAPPONI: I understand. I would be. MR. GRAY: In connection with this particular one, I would like to point out within the year -- with the old committee, the old beach renourishment committee, there was a considerable amount of money spent, I think, with Coastal Engineering in studding sand sources offshore. And I don't know -- you know, this is kind of a ticklish subject because of what has happened with Coastal Engineering and the lawsuit and all of that. But I don't know if we -- if staff or this committee still has available to it those studies that were made, because I know it was either our last meeting or the meeting before the last meeting when they presented a pretty detailed report of their sand search and brought some specimens in, Dr. Jon. DR. STAIGER: Yes. MR. GRAY: I don't know how to -- I'm trying to figure out a way to bring this into this new committee's province, if at all we can do it. Page 45 May 29, 2001 DR. STAIGER: Well, that was -- that was a formal report on a project to -- to the -- to the county, and so Harry has that information, and I'm sure that the -- you know, when this project goes forward they will be able to -- to base some of their searching on that. The sand that did the original renourishment on Marco came from the shoal system off of Big Marco Pass and the shoal system off of Caxambas, and the logical place for the sand to come to do this work on Hideaway would be somewhere out there in the shoal system off of Capri, Big Marco Pass Area. The search is going to have to be to make sure that -- that the sand is available out there and that taking it away doesn't create some kind of a change in the way the waves impact the northwest corner of Marco, because that was -- when we were looking for sand for the Naples beach, we looked at that area. But there was considerable question about whether taking a million cubic yards of sand out of that shoal system would create something that would then impact the beaches on Marco adversely, and -- and it was one of those things. There were a couple of different engineering opinions out there as to whether it would or would not have an affect. And rather than get into a big court fight over this thing, we just opted to forget about that thing. But if you are looking at -- at a lesser volume of sand and you get far enough away from the beach -- and this is something that Brad Moore is very familiar with -- that there is sand out there. It's whether or not it is suitable material. The stuff that Coastal found, I think, that would be suitable for just about any beach in the county is down off of Cape Ramono where it's just going and sitting down there in a huge -- ever increasing shoal. MR. MOORE: Just to help you a little further in that, there is a lot of sand out there, but everybody seems to be trying to protect a different interest. And there is a lot of concerns about Page 46 May 29, 2001 potential impact to Sand Dollar Island and shore bird nesting activities that occur out there. One of the things that we're doing right now is we are doing a feasibility -- brief feasibility study to look at the different areas and contact the state, and these are the areas that we would like -- the county would like to look at. The county has not selected a consultant to do this project yet, but one of the first things that I'm sure would naturally occur would be to look at any other reports in the areas that have been evaluated so as not to duplicate it so that you can make good use of your reports -- MR. GRAY: That's my concern. MR. MOORE: Yeah. Absolutely. That should be a concern. That shouldn't be a problem, I suspect. MR. GRAY: Okay. MR. MUDD: Without further questions, the breakwater modifications that Marco Island -- if you look at the beach, you see the breakwaters out there. I scratched my head the first time I looked, and I said, "What the heck are those doing out there? ' I came back and talked a little bit, and then as I talked with Harry -- what they are basically going to do, they are going to extend the breakwaters that are out there right now. They're doing the ]ob, but they are not doing the fully intended job as they got put in. And so they're going to bring them a little bit closer together and -- and spread them out just a little bit in order to -- to have a breakwater stop the erosion that is occurring and hopefully leave some sand in its -- in its wake; that's what that process is all about. The engineering and design is 60,000. There is the MODS to submerge land easements for $10,000, and the construction is estimated at five-seventy-one and there is a contingency of 64,000 or 10 percent as far as that total is concerned; and this is a relatively new project, as the Chair would like to have us bring Page 47 May 29, 2001 out, Gaxambas Pass permits and dredging is pretty much standard -- done -- done in the past. It's time for this particular project on its -- on its cycle to -- I guess it's on a four-year cycle based on -- it's more like a seven-year cycle, And this is its -- this is its year to take a look at that. Now~ you've taken a look at the hydraulic survey in order to find out if the shoaling is there to make sure there's time in order to do the dredging. It isn't just that every seven years you go out there and everything -- you are just going to do it whether it needs it or not; that is not the case. You make sure the hydraulic survey is out there and it basically shows you that there is enough shoaling that requires a dredge event to transpire; so that part is there. The next one is Hideaway Beach Access Improvement. This is a new project and -- and probably the last one we'll talk about tonight unless there is -- unless there is any comment, On Hideaway Beach to get from Tiger Tail to Hideaway you normally have to wade in water in order to get there, There's two alternatives that I've seen in this process; one is to put a renourishment of sand between the two so that you can walk over~ and the other alternative I've seen is a boardwalk that goes some -- I'm really out of turn here~ okay~ because I have seen it briefly -- I think it was eighteen hundred feet. Don't quote me on it -- in that ballpark. And I think it's about a four-foot width, And I think it's negotiable of how wide you want it to be~ and is there places that you can dismount the boardwalk in case you want to go out there and wade in the water? Those are all discussions that -- that need to take place and -- and pending your approval once we get some feasibility of the project and something a little bit more concrete as we go along, But that's been brought forward a couple of times that -- that I've seen it at least, It's Page 48 May 29, 2001 something that we might want to discuss a little further. I think we have some -- some interests in the -- out there in the audience, I think, on this particular project; is that correct? Do you have -- if you could just kind of give me a brief overview or show somebody a picture so they have a better idea, I would appreciate it. Is that okay? MR. KROESCHELL: We have a picture in this handout that you gave us, in case nobody has looked at it. It's near the end. COURT REPORTER: Excuse me. I'm going to need a break to change my paper. I'm out. MR. MUDD: Mr. Chairman, is it okay if we take a five-minute break? MR. GALLENBERG: Absolutely. MR. MUDD: Does everyone know where the facilities are on this -- on this hallway? They are down at the end of the hall. The ladies room and the men's room are both in the same location, not necessarily the same doors, though. (A short break was held.) MR. GALLENBERG.' Colonel Mudd, are we ready to start again? MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. If I can get your attention again, we can start the meeting again. I have been told in your packet there is -- there is a display of Hideaway Beach. The first one that has the blue outline -- that's -- that's the walkway, the pedestrian walkway. Yeah, the four feet was right, and it's about 1,440 feet. I said about sixteen. And if you turn to the next page you will see that outline, the blue, the small walkway is still there that basically covers that outlet. But then you will see the median line of where the beach renourishment and sand would go behind so that you would have a walkway to Tiger Tail and Hideaway. Those are the two alternatives that we have seen so far that is part of that project. Page 49 May 29, 200t There has been a small report, fact sheet, that has been prepared. We need to get that to you before the next meeting. What we tried to do with this packet was to give you a visual of what some of the projects look like and -- and what transpires during them so that you have an idea as we came to this. As I said before, Harry was out. I found out about it, okay, this morning when I came to work. I said, "This isn't good." I said, "Make sure Jon -- Jon Staiger comes to the meeting. There is the institutional knowledge, please. So I had them put together as many visuals as we possibly could to give you an idea, depending on what your experiences were. What I would like to do is -- is stop at that juncture, as far as the projects are concerned, because those are the $4.5 million that -- that we -- basically we're going to put in front of the board that had to have your approval or your recommendation on. The Pelican Bay Service Division came up and -- and defended their $205,000 for Clam Pass monitoring and dredging. The parks and recs department, I have Barefoot Beach access parking lots, rennovations of parking lots, redecking boardwalks at Barefoot Beach, Barefoot Preserves, South Marco Beach access, and a refurbishment of Gulf Shore Boulevard North access. And then the City of Naples defended their projects to the tune of $94,000 in front of -- in front of the TDC at their meeting in March or April. And so what I would like to do at -- at this juncture is if you have any additional questions, I would like to take them and take some notes and see if I can get you those answers before the next meeting on the projects. MR. PIRES: Mr. Chairman, if I may, maybe just a couple of procedural things that might help at the next meeting. If it's the desire of the committee, possibly, the minutes of the TDC, as opposed to have a rehash of all the presentation. If they are that Page 50 May 29, 2001 detailed presentations before the TDC that they were verbatim transcripts, such as this proceeding, I think that might be helpful. And if it's possible, once again, from the committee's perspective, if there is someone from the county attorney's office to help advise the committee as a whole or a primer, a real quick primer, on Sunshine Law and conflict-of-interest issues to make sure that we don't run afoul of any of those issues. Just a suggestion, I'm not sure what the committee's thoughts would be on that. MR. GRAY: Our -- I'm sure some people are familiar with the rules of Sunshine. Is there anyone not familiar with that, which says, in essence, when you serve together on a public body, you can't -- we can't speak with each other about matters that are before us or could come before us unless we're in a public meeting, such as this; that's Sunshine in a nutshell. MR. MUDD: And what I will do is have the county attorney or his representative show up at the meeting and give you that short primer. I will also check out and make sure that we didn't - - didn't mess up and not have somebody swear in, okay. That is another issue that I will -- that I -- work for the next process. So there are a couple of unanswered questions that I had prior to coming to this meeting today as we went on, one of which is, do we have a recorder, okay, and we made sure that that was on track and tried to stay out of as much trouble as we possibly could. So I will answer -- at least get those questions answered and have somebody here from the county's attorney office. If there -- if there has to be a swearing in or signing of particular documents, I will make sure they are available at the -- at the June 7th meeting too. MR. GRAY: Back to the projects. I just had one -- one overriding question and that is the total funds for the projects we discussed is about 5.3 million, and the spreadsheet anticipates Page 51 May 29, 200t revenues without even any carry forward of about six-eight -- if I have done my math right -- six-seven, six-eight. It also shows anticipated expenses of about 7.4 million. Even if we take away the five hundred catastrophe -- I would like to bridge the gap between the 5.3 million and the numbers on the spreadsheet. MR. MUDD: Okay. MR. GALLENBERG: To explain that do we leave some leeway for other proposals, or do we anticipate other proposals coming in? MR. MUDD: There's some -- there's some room in this budget. MR. GALLENBERG: We don't need to discuss that tonight, but I would like to, perhaps, discuss at our next meeting. Do we have any other questions or comments? MR. ROELLIG: I would like to make a comment. We do have projects that were approved -- that was by the prior years, but the funds weren't expended, such as the -- the Naples project on the sand net -- DR. STAIGER: The Parker-- MR. ROELLIG: -- the sandtrap. So we -- those funds would presumably start being expended in the year 2002, so does that -- I don't see it on the spreadsheet. I mean, they may have been previously approved. Apparently the monies have already been set aside for the Parker Sandweb Project and other projects; that probably should be on this sheet somewhere as an expenditure. DR. STAIGER: Yeah. I think it's -- MR. ROELLIG: The revenues have been set aside, as I understand it, but the expenditure has not been approved yet. MR. MUDD: Yes. What I need to do -- MR. ROELLIG: Right. MR. MUDD: -- it's got Parkers Sandweb on it. I need to have Harry explain the previous part -- part of the things that we'll do Page 52 May 29, 2001 from a staff perspective is to give you an explanation of expenditures previous versus projects that were done, not done for some strange reason, whether it's been carried forward in -- in, for instance, the Parkers Web, and lay that process out for you. MS. LUPO: Is there a procedure for asking staff questions between meetings, and to whom do we direct those? MR. MUDD: I would say that you would direct them to Harry Huber, okay, the project manager. And then he'll try and get those answered for you. You can either give him a call, or you can get them on e-mail. But if you have a burning desire, use my phone number right now, okay, and it's 732-2540, and I can get that information for you. MR. GRAY: As I understand it, under the Sunshine Law, we can correspond, however, with Harry-- MR. MUDD: Absolutely. MR. GRAY: -- e-mail, phone -- MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. MR. GRAY: -- letter, what have you. It's okay to do that. We just can't do that amongst ourselves? MR. MUDD: Right. MR. GALLENBERG: One housekeeping item, if there's nothing else that anyone has, is that each of us probably knows some of the other members here, but I doubt that anyone knows all the other members. So maybe in our next packet, while we'll get to know each other soon enough, that if we can have a contact sheet, so to speak, even though we can't contact each other; name, affiliation, perhaps a number or address or something like that. MR. GRAY: Yeah. That will be good. MR. MUDD: I will give you Harry's e-mail, things like that, certainly. Page 53 May 29, 2001 MR. GALLENBERG: And then is there anything else from any of the members? We have some members of the public here. MR. MUDD: Yeah, we have public input. MR. GALLENBERG: If there is public input, we would be ready to take that now. MR. MUDD: Anybody? Nobody basically gave me a written sheet. MR. GALLENBERG: Everyone is nodding no. So if there is nothing else then, pending final confirmation that we have this room for Thursday morning, we'll meet next on June 7th at 1:30 p.m. And for tonight, then, we're adjourned. Thank you. There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 7:30 p.m. COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE GARY GALLENBERG, CHAIRMAN TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING, INC., BY EMILY C. UNDERWOOD, RPR Page 54