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BCC Minutes 05/15/2001 W (Affordable Housing)May 15, 2001 WORKSHOP MEETING OF MAY 15, 2001 OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:10 a.m. in WORKSHOP SESSION in Building 'F' of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: VICE CHAIRMAN: JAMES D. CARTER, PH.D PAMELA S. MAC'KIE JIM COLETTA DONNA FIALA TOM HENNING ALSO PRESENT: TOM OLLIFF, County Manager JOHN DUNNUCK, Interim Administrator, Community Development and Environmental Services GREG MIHALIC, HUI Director Page I May 15, 2001 DAVID ELLIS, Affordable Housing Commission Chairman MARLO VALLE, Creative Homes CORMAC GIBLIN, HUI Manager Page 2 9:OO 9:O5 9:10 9:3O 9:45 10:00 10:15 10:30 BCC Affordable Housing Workshop Agenda May 15, 2001 9:00 A.M. Welcoming Remarks Dr. James Carter, Chairman BCC Opening Remarks Tom Olliff, County Manager John Dunnuck, Interim Administrator Community Development and Environmental Services Definition of Affordable Housing Greg Mihalic, Housing and Urban Improvement Director Cormac Giblin, Housing and Urban Improvement Manager Definition Define The Situation - set the scene Jobs created Job creation graph - Collier Vs. Lee Job growth chart - Collier Vs. Lee Vs. State Nature of jobs in Collier Graph employment by sector and average salary School system data Free/reduced lunch participants by commission district Product availability graphs Average wage Vs. average home sales price graph Homes selling for under $80,000 Vs. over $250,000 graph Shimberg data Homeownership supply shortage graph Presentations Immokalee Initiative Housing Project Dora Vidaurri Habitat for Humanity Dr. Sam Durso Construction Industry Representative Marlo Valle - Creative Homes Affordable Housing Commission David Ellis - Chairman Collier County University Extension Service Collier County Loan Consortium- Dr. Denise Blanton 10:45 11:00 11:15 11:25 11:30 11:45 Outline of programs and strategies Greg Mihalic, Housing and Urban Improvement Director Cormac Giblin, Housing and Urban Improvement Manager Affordable Housing Toolbox- List of ongoing policies and programs Current SHIP programs Overview of SHIP Program State comparisons How we use our SHIP money compared to other S. Florida counties Rankings chart The Big Three SHIP Programs Down Payment/Closing Cost Assistance Impact Fee Relief Residential Rehabilitation Rental development assistance Number of units created Proposed new tools for consideration Toolbox of proposed programs Linkage fees for commercial development and non-affordable residential development Expanded Density bonus program to include all areas of the county- automatic approval for Affordable Housing Inclusionary Zoning with Payment In-lieu/Opt-out Option Special consideration or exemptions for affordable housing on growth management issues BCC Action The alternative - Consequences of not planning for workforce housing Impacts if we do not have an adequate supply of affordable housing Susan Golden, A.I.C.P., City of Naples Planning Department On levels of service On employment On the roads On the quality of life Public Comments Adjourn May 15, 2001 CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Good morning. I got to wait until this warms up. Try it again. Good morning. That's very good. Nothing like a rousing good morning for a worker housing -- affordable housing workshop. Let's begin, as we always do, with the pledge of allegiance, and then we will start our meeting. (The pledge of allegiance was recited in unison.) CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you-all for being here. This is a continuation of our workshops being done by the Board of County Commissioners. It applies to the big umbrella called growth management. And today is a very critical and important subject that we all look forward to discussing, and I'm going to turn the meeting over to Mr. Tom Olliff, and he will guide us with his staff through the session. MR. OLLIFF: Mr. Chairman, thank you. And for those of you in attendance, thank you. A little housekeeping to begin with. We'll go through the regular workshop process with the board, but then there's always an opportunity for anyone who wants to speak to be able to address the board. And there are some speaker slips here at the table. And if anyone is interested, if you would just fill those in and return them to Greg. He's got his hand up there at the table. We'll call you in the order that we receive your speaker slips. In addition, if you are interested in an agenda, there are some copies of the agenda for the workshop out on the hallway table. And if you want to follow along with that, you can get a copy of that outside of this room. Mr. Chairman, this is our tenth in a series of workshops already, surprising. But it's a topic that I think in strategic planning and in most of our -- our land development review items continues to come up as is something that both the board Page 3 May 15, 2001 members and this community see as one of this -- this area's most pressing issues. And I think our goal today is to try and make sure that you get a -- a pretty good snapshot of what is the work-force housing environment here in Collier County today, what are the efforts that have and are currently going on that are -- are trying to address some of the work-force housing issues, how successful are they, and then what are some of the opportunities for this board to consider especially as part of the work-force housing horizon committee that will be created on this coming Tuesday, June 22nd. I think some of those opportunities for us to -- to make some actual advances in work-force housing opportunities will be provided through this workshop to the committee then, and hopefully the committee can come back to the board with some real policy decisions to be made. In addition to welcoming everyone that's here in the audience here today, I do want to take a moment and recognize Ron Muscarella (phonetic) who is here at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Ron, if you would just raise your hand for us. I appreciate you being here this morning. I know you're here for another meeting this afternoon. And we do appreciate your attendance at our workshop. Mr. Chairman, we've got a pretty full agenda. We've got a lot of participants that are in the industry and I think can provide you some good hands-on kind of information. And with that I'll turn it over to Greg Mihalic, our director of housing and urban improvement. MR. MIHALIC.' Good morning, Commissioners. We really want to show you the situation today, explain the options, and let you try to understand, both from the public sector side and the private sector side, what the situation is and where it's heading. So we appreciate the opportunity to be here. Page 4 May 15, 2001 I think the first thing we want to talk about is what is affordable housing. And, of course, what's affordable depends on who your targeted market is and who you're talking about. But really affordable housing means that -- that people shouldn't have to spend more than 30 percent of their income for their housing costs. And if you look at the bottom of the slide, you'll see that for a family that makes $30,000 a year, that means they shouldn't spend more than $700 a month on their housing costs, and that translates into a mortgage of $85,500. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm sorry. I couldn't read the fine print. That's just a 5 percent down payment. MR. MIHALIC: Five percent down payment and a seven percent fixed loan, thirty-year fixed mortgage. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And that's not -- I mean, that's aggressive financing. MR. MIHALIC: It is a little bit below what the market is. Actually, the market today is about 7 3/8 and -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Five percent down is rare, isn't it? MR. MIHALIC: No, no. That's typical now, 3 percent -- even a hundred percent financing is available in this market. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good. MR. MIHALIC: And you can see that as we go up to $40,000 a year, if -- you only get four -- $993 a month in costs or $113,600 mortgage and at $50,000 a year, $1,167 in costs, which can translate into $142,000 mortgage. Next slide. Let's define what the current situation is. Some of the slides you're going to see today are similar to the information that you got in the economic development workshop a few weeks ago. Obviously these issues are tied together. And the issues that drive that market drive this market. And one of those issues is the lobs we create. And you'll see that even though Lee Page 5 May 15, 2001 County is twice the size of Collier County, we are creating jobs at 3 times the rate, and over the last 6 years we've created 21,000 jobs in Collier County. And Lee County, which is twice as big, created fourteen thousand four hundred dollar -- four hundred jobs. Obviously this is a huge factor in the housing needs and our market. And you'll see that we created jobs at a 28 percent rate over that period versus 9 percent for Lee and 11 percent for the state. We are a huge job creation engine in Collier County. And, also, when you look at the basis of our employment, you'll see that 83 percent of our jobs -- this is total jobs -- are in the four lowest annual wage categories: Construction, services, retail, and agriculture. So 83 percent of your market is made up of these traditionally lower-paying industries. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And -- and the highest of those are -- MR. MIHALIC: Construction. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And -- and they -- I couldn't -- the graph -- that's a -- 30,000 so... MR. MIHALIC: About $32,000 a year -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So -- MR. MIHALIC: -- wages. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- of the four largest industries, we need to have them in that hundred thousand dollar home and under? MR. MIHALIC: Well, as you remember, a family that makes 30 -- a little over $30,000 could probably afford a $90,000 house with a mortgage of 5 percent down. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. COMMISSIONER FIALA: How many houses are available in the $90,000 range? MR. MIHALIC: Not many, but that slide's coming up, Commissioner. Page 6 May 15, 2001 And when you look at who is in the community, what needs are here, we've taken the school board data of those families who are very Iow income under our statistics and are considered by the school system economically needy. You'll see that 44 percent of the kids in the school district meet those criteria. And we've broken it down by commissioner district to show you that this distribution is really throughout the county. There isn't really a rich area and a poor area, and people who are very Iow income are geographically distributed throughout the county. And these are working families in your districts. Now, where is the housing which Commissioner Fiala asked? This is a -- this is a graph that tracks wages. Since 1993 did 2,000 versus house prices. Commissioner, there is the disappearing market. When you go back to 1993, you'll see that the average sales price was $170,000 at that time. In the year 2000, the average sales price was $334,000 in this market. Obviously, you can see the increase in wages versus the increase in house price. Workers are priced out of the market. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You can't give us -- I'm sorry to be so interruptive -- MR. MIHALIC: That's fine. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- but are you going to give us a slide that shows the number of sales under a hundred thousand? MR. MIHALIC: We're going to give you that. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. MR. MIHALIC: I -- I have to pay her to, you know, lead me into this. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. I'll be quiet now. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Just remember last Tuesday she had laryngitis. MR. MIHALIC: Yeah. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: This meeting could last till next Page 7 May 15, 2001 Tuesday. MR. MIHALIC: And the slide Commissioner Mac'Kie asked for, we've tracked those $80,000 single-family home sales since 1993. You'll see we had a high of 1721 sales in 1996. And now in the year 2000 we're down to 238 sales. Really, 1996, you really - - that was when our mortgage programs kicked in. That's when these Iow down payment programs kicked in for most of the financial institutions. The concept of a 20 percent down payment disappeared in this market. And, you know, that's your demand side. That seventy-nine twenty-six is your demand side. And if we had the supply, we could continue at that pace without a problem. Let's leave it on -- any questions about this slide? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And that 2,000 is a full year? That's not-- MR. MIHALIC: That's a calendar year, yes, from the property appraiser's office. COMMISSIONER FIALA: So you say, one more time, if we had the supply-- MR. MIHALIC: Yes. COMMISSIONER FIALA: .- we could continue? MR. MIHALIC: Yes, ma'am. We have plenty of people that want to buy houses, and you'll hear more of that during our presentation. But if we only had the supply of houses that they could afford and be able to buy. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: If I could get one slide printed on the front page of the Naples Daily News, that would be it. I think that is the most telling piece of information there that -- MR. MIHALIC: And that is the house that your $30,000-a- year family can afford and the average wages of twenty-eight five in this market. And you saw how many, you know -- 45 percent of the families with kids in the school system meet these criteria. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Average wage is 28,000, you said? Page 8 May 15, 2001 MR. MIHALIC.. 28,500 is the averages in the market. CHAIRMAN CARTER: That's earned income. MR. MIHALIC.. That's wages. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Wages. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Earned income, not the Disney World number that is put out there of 56 which is cumulative of -- of passive income for the coupon clippers and dividend check collectors. And there's something wrong with that, but that's not the real world. This number is the real world. MR. MIHALIC: Median income is now up to $65,000 for 2001. So you have average wages at twenty-eight five. You have median household income at $6 5,000. This -- these -- this is numbers put out by the State of Florida through the Shimberg Institute, and they look at the deficit that they see in Collier County. This is only owner-occupied affordable housing. And you'll see that in 2000 you really have a total deficit of 15,000 units of single-family affordable housing for those families that make under $50,000 a year. And they expect that to go to 20,370 in 2005 and 24,638 in 2010. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE.' So this -- this 199 units surplus for last year is basically the two-hundred-and-something closings that you showed us? MR. MIHALIC: Well, I -- I think that the state's methodology is not the best. I think our local analysis is much better. But I believe this -- this is -. shows the condo stock that's available in this market. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE-- I see. MR. MIHALIC.. Not single-family homes. And there is a large supply of condos that would be affordable to those families that make thirty-two to fifty thousand dollars in this market. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. MR. MIHALIC: I believe that that's why you see a surplus in Page 9 May 15, 2001 that income category. However, as you know, family living and condo living are not always compatible in this market. Yes. COMMISSIONER FIALA: And -- and many condos, if I -- if I remember correctly, don't allow children; right? MR. MIHALIC: There are some. I don't know about many, but there are a percentage who are adult-only condominiums. We'd like to have Dora Vidaurri come up who is our new interdepartmental supervisor for the Immokalee initiative and let her speak to you. MS. VIDAURRI.. Good morning, Commissioners. I'm here to present you with a project that's been dedicated and been identified as the number one priority substandard housing. Our project is the Immokalee Initiative Housing Project. Before I begin, I'd like to introduce myself. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's hard to hear you. MS. VIDAURRI: Okay. My name's Dora Vidaurri, the interdepartmental supervisor for the initiative housing project. I'm a full-time resident in the Immokalee community. I'm originally from Texas. As an infant my family migrated to California, and we soon -- within the two years we moved to Immokalee. Ever since, Immokalee has been my home. Thereafter my family migrated every summer to locate work, always returning to Immokalee. Therefore, I can relate to the migrant issues. Three months ago today I was hired as interdepartment supervisor for this initiative housing project. These last three months have been very overwhelming, and yet I can honestly say I am proud to be part of such a great and rewarding project. Commissioners, during the month of June of '99 the board approved this initiative housing project, and I am here today to give you an update. Page 10 May 15, 2001 I have provided several slides to give you a view of the issues we are facing in Immokalee. This picture shows a travel trailer that's less than 480 square feet. Travel trailers are very common in Immokalee and -- however, in most cases, they're illegal. Here you see a trailer being utilized as a duplex. This is another very common thing we know that's happening in Immokalee where the landlords are split into floor plans of a mobile home into two and making double on the monies. The average charge is about $120 a person a week. Again, here you see a travel trailer. Trailer -- you know, we know trailers are a big magnet to hurricanes, so that's a big issue, in a home. This picture shows how people are providing electricity from one trailer to the other. This trailer shows the terrible conditions most trailers look like in Immokalee. This is just the outside. Our next slide will show you the inside. Again, here's the same trailer. We're looking at it from the inside. And if you'll notice, on the side of the bed, there is a board. So we know that they -- the -- there's a hallway in there that leads to another bedroom. So they usually rent them out, again, like I said, $120 a week a person. This picture shows the boards on the windows, and this is another very common thing that's being allowed in the Immokalee community. Landlords don't fix the windows, put the glass in. They're just putting up the boards. This picture just shows all the electricity. Just from looking at the picture, we can tell that there's one electrical outlet working here, and they're passing the electricity from one window to the other. This slide here shows a trailer on the -- on the ground. Page 11 May 15, 2001 Basically, it's not -- hasn't -- doesn't have correct tie-downs or anything. Again, this is just another slide showing the two doors and how the split -- the plans are being split of this trailer. What is the initiative housing project's objective? Our objective is to reduce and improve the substandard housing conditions in the Immokalee community. Go ahead, sir. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. If I may, isn't code enforcement at this point going very aggressively to remove these units now that the migrant laborers have left the area, just to remove them from the inventory? MS. VIDAURRI: That is our plan. We know that the -- we're noticing that the people are kind of leaving the area now. So it is time, probably, to take an aggressive approach on this situation. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The rationale behind this is, is that we've got two different kind of people that live in Collier County. One are the migrants that pass through serve a function, but it's generally agriculture. Then they move on again. They really contribute very little to the community itself. They don't have any real roots as far as it goes. Then we have the -- the more permanent person that lives there year round. And generally they feel more of a bond with the community. I think we ought to encourage our code enforcement to go forward and also to carry Tom Henning's initiative as far as the density requirements that are allowed. And this should be brought up and made a law just as soon as possible including Immokalee to avoid some of the problems that have taken place in the past, even the suitable units. Why should they allow 20 people to live in one unit? This is unforgivable. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'm sure, Commissioner, you didn't mean to say that the migrant workers don't have an important role to play in our community. Page 12 May 15, 2001 COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I didn't mean it quite that way. But what I'm saying is that when we look at this housing initiative thing, we have -- our first obligation is to provide housing for the regular residents that are here all year long. I think the second initiative would be to make sure, to oversee the housing for the migrants, and that should be the responsibility of agriculture. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Absolutely. And our responsibility, though, is to be sure that these safety hazards are eliminated. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Exactly. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And -- and we need to do that, as you said, before the next season so that that's not available. And agriculture industry knows that they are going to have to provide some housing that's decent --. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Exactly. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- for migrant workers. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: There is financial incentive to be able to go forward and provide the housing. The market will take care of itself. I don't think the county should get involved with trying to underwrite the cost of temporary housing for migrant laborers. I think that's way past anything we should get involved with. It's only been recently -- I think you can agree with this -- that the county has taken a more aggressive role. MS. VIDAURRI: Correct. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It used to be a -- a wing and go ahead and do whatever you want. I've seen people who sleep in U-haul trailers, and they rent them things out and subdivide them. I -- it's unbelievable. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: If that's our job, our job is to eliminate that from the market so that the market has to provide something else. Page 13 May 15, 2001 COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' I think we're giving staff direction here, aren't we, Commissioner Mac'Kie? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Coletta, if you could clarify something for me, what I hear you say is the county, via the code enforcement, is going to eliminate these products that are out in the migrant area, the farming area. What are we going to replace it with? Are we going to let the -- COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' Let's understand this, Commissioner Henning, the way we're talking about is that once the tenants have left for the season and they're -- they're taken away from the inventory, if they -- when they come back, there will only be room for so many. It will be the part of agriculture to be able to find the balance of where the housing's going to take place. They'll have to get involved with all the other initiatives out there to work directly with the farmers to make sure the housing is provided for these people. For too long now this migrant labor situation has been a tremendous drain on the community as far as social services go, as far as the food banks go. Everything you can possibly think of, this has been a tremendous drain, and it's all been to subsidize agriculture to keep it at artificially Iow prices. I've been involved in this for years, the food banks, working with volunteers, with social service. And I can see these peaks and the valleys. And I wonder what we're actually accomplishing when these people keep coming back to substandard housing, to substandard wages, and we're doing nothing more but tolerating it. So we have to be aggressive to make sure that we turn this around with the industry itself. And supported, it will. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. My only concern is, if these -- and I don't want anybody to live in those kind of conditions, but once they're removed, what's going to re -- replace them? My concern is people living in vehicles. Page 14 May 15, 2001 COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I -- we won't tolerate that either. We're going to have to be firm on what's going to happen. Collier County should be a quality place to live, even for the people that are of Iow income. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And heads up for budget cycle because the only way we can do this is if we fund significantly code enforcement for this kind of housing. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And we're doing the right thing now. We have two full-time inspectors there, and we're talking about putting another part time -- MS. VIDAURRI: Just -- just -- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- down there also. MS. VIDAURRI: -- to add to that, that is an issue. Code enforcement's been very proa -- proactive out there. We don't usually get complaints or anything like that, so it's all been proactive work. And we do generate general complaints now. We're trying to get the community involved as far as educational issues, and I'll address that more in the presentation further along on what some of our goals that we want to do for the community. But that -- that is in a whole an issue, just the -- the staff. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And if I may add to that, we have a active civic association in Immokalee now that has taken on these very same issues in trying to restore their community to some sort of sense of balance. MS. VIDAURRI: Correct. CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think we need to hear -- I'm sorry. I'm flipping forward. MS. VIDAURRI: That's fine. CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think that you're beginning to cover a lot of the issues that you are bringing forward to discuss. You Page 15 May 15, 2001 know, we see what's bad. I look down here, and I begin to see things that are better. So I'd like you to take me through that. I need to get that update because I know the board did make significant capital -- or significant expenditures to increase code enforcement personnel to establish what you're doing in Immokalee, and I would like to hear what we've accomplished so far. MS. VIDAURRI: And -- and just to add to Gommissioner Goletta, he is correct. June is pretty much the slow time, like I said. The Immokalee community is roughly a population of twenty-two, and that doubles on the harvest time. Our -- our status summary: The Immokalee office is up and running. You know, we're currently working on getting all our phone lines up. Staff is still gearing up. I have two staff in training, and we're trying to fill one last support position for a customer service agent now. Some of the previously approved recommendations were the trailer park densities, impact fee waivers, dumpster fee waivers - - that was worked out with solid waste -- the financial assistance with the site improvement plan from the HUI department. Okay. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Have we had any -- has anybody come in for that site improvement plan? MR. MIHALIC: Yes. They'll be talking about it. MS. VIDAURRI: Our -- our -- our progress currently on cases and site improvement plans are we have three ongoing code cases. One site improvement plan has been approved, and that's probably the one you guys are very familiar with. Two are pending in the review stage, so we have two site improvement plans and the planning department. And four property owners have inquired referencing the site improvement plan process for the initiative housing project. The process of our cases, we initiate a code case either by Page t6 May 15, 2001 phone complaint or observation, patrolling. Inspection is conducted by both the investigators and a building inspector. A notice of violation is then given to the property owner. A written agreement is then conducted between the property owner for the site improvement plan. A preapplication meeting is then set with the property owner, and then we approve a site improvement plan, and then time frames are given to the property owner. A site improvement plan: An app -- it's an application for approval to use land in a manner that is consistent with the county land development code requirements. The site improvement plan is a master plan iljustrating the way buildings are laid out and infrastructure such as utilities, streets, drainage, landscaping, and the like. It serves to obtain approval of required infrastructure and improvements. It then becomes the official record acknowledging the legal use of the property. There is a site improvement -- this is a property before a site improvement plan, and this is the after of the property. It can be done: Delivery: How to accomplish our objective is multidepartments all working together. We've got code enforcement creating the cases, the planning services assuring the property owners of how to obtain the required improvements to their property, the funding from housing urban improvement, and then the building review and permitting issuing the permits to get the work done. This is an organizational chart on the initiative housing project staff currently as it is laid out. We have a building review. We have a full-time inspector, a support staff that will be generating cases, and then we have a customer service agent which will be the support staff for the -- for the investigators. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just a quick question. Do they have language, Spanish, and maybe some Haitian? Creole? Do Page 17 May 15, 2001 any of these people speak Spanish or Creole? MS. VIDAURRI: Yeah. We have a full-time investigator who speaks Spanish, and our support staff currently speak Spanish. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So Creole training would be a nice -- probably a smart idea. MS. VIDAURRI: Some of the attention areas that we have come across is the site improvement plans review. We are getting them delayed or rejected in the review process, so we come to -- to get a formal amendment to the land development code. We feel that this is something we need to do for this project in order to help fast track these site improvement plans. And with that, we are requiring a planner position who will assist in getting that attention area addressed. And that person will coordinate the preapplication meetings, assist in understanding the requirements, coordinate with the review departments of the site improvement plan, and ensure the completion of the site improvement plan. Further, because of the -- the general complaints, such as weed and litter and all these -- these other issues, that code enforcement investigator position is something that should also be considered. Goals: Some of the plans for the initiative housing project is to provide an article to the Immokalee Bulletin summarizing our project and our efforts and what we're trying to do, and then -- then we're going to conduct an -- educational public meetings. We don't want to do just one but several and let them have an idea of what the enforcement part is, what the site improvement plan process is, what it requires, what's the review process, because a lot of people aren't aware of what the process is. And it's -- it has to go through all these departments for approval, and people aren't aware of that. The incentives, not just for the site improvement plan, but Page 18 May 15, 2001 also for rehabilitating their homes, down payment loans. So we want to work together with all these other departments in providing the public on all this information. Inspections, we want to let them know what the inspection process is; permitting, what is required. And overall, we want to assure the Immokalee community understands the Immokalee initiative housing project. That's our overall for our plans. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is there another slide on this subject, because I have a question about it? MR. GIBLIN: No, this is the end. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Then my question is what are the -- besides the Immokalee Bulletin -- I think that's an excellent idea -- what other communication opportunities are there in Immokalee? MS. VIDAURRI: We have the civic association. We have the alliance. We're currently -- the alliance with the sheriff's office is currently working the weed-and-seed grant to assist on the south side of the Immokalee community. We just got approved -- I'm not sure if the approval went on CDBG funds for the $40,000 lighting project. Except, you know -- MR. MIHALIC: Yup. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But my question is, what -- what is the -- and let me just tell you in Riverpark right now we're having trouble identifying -- you know, we don't have lines of communication with people in Riverpark the way that we should. I sense the same problem in Immokalee. I know that there is the civic association. I wonder what else -- what are the ways that we communicate with people with the community, with -- other than Fred Thomas, God bless him, you know, but how do we talk to -- how do we get the word out to people in river -- in Immokalee that if they want to improve their house, they want to fix their roof, we may have some money available for them? Page 19 May 15, 2001 COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If I may help you on that, besides the civic association and the alliance, there -- there's also an organization of all the different social service organizations. I also open some inroads into the Haitian community and Hispanic community where we're reaching out to try to get those people that are at the bottom of the civic ladder, you might say at this point in time, to try and bring them into the fold and to draw them out. We're trying every possible way we can. I've been going to Immokalee at least once a month and setting up meetings for everyone and his brother that will meet with me and covering every possible issue we -- we can grab ahold of. Another thing we're going to be doing in Immokalee is we're making arrangements for Channel 54 where at least the -- the material on Channel 54 be taped to Immokalee and played over their cablevision, and we might be able to pick up something there where we can show something like this meeting, or you can make your own presentation showing deplorable conditions and what you're looking to do to improve it to try to disarm some of the fears of some of the people out there and how this is going to affect them. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is there a channel -- there's a local access kind of channel? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Immokalee. It's just we can't tie into it directly. The cable at this point in time stops at Orange Tree. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, you know, frankly, I don't know how many people have access to television, but -- MS. VIDAURRI: I -- I think we go back to our educational public meetings. It's going to be a preplanning, such as going out to the community, and it's -- it's not going to be just the TV -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No. There's a government channel in Page 20 May 15, 2001 MS. VIDAURRI: -- type of advertisement or local bulletin. MR. MIHALIC: We have information in all the libraries. We have information in all the churches. We appear at the workshops that the health department gives, and we talk about our programs, so all that's going on also. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And -- and my experience is that it's relationships. I mean, the only way that I have any inroads, for example, in the Riverpark community, since that's in my district, is through personal relationships, going to church with people, and getting to know people, and then they introduce you to the people who you need to -- I mean, it's got to be personal relationships. And I'm hopeful that because this is your ]ob -- MS. VIDAURRI: I am very -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You live in Immokalee? MS. VIDAURRI: Yes, I do. I'm -- I'm very close to the community as a whole. I mean, I've done anywhere from educational on children's rights on -- you know -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good. MS. VIDAURRI: -- special education, those kinds of things. I'm very close to the community. I know a lot of the people. But again, I go back to saying, when it comes down to our educational meetings for this community, we need to bring them in. It's not going to --just given my advertisement but going out to the community in a whole and letting them know this is what we're doing, whether it's a printed material and explaining it to them. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And, you know, we once had -- and then I'll stop. We once had a meeting in Immokalee with the last Board of County Commissioners, and it must have been before Jim was on because the only people who went to Immokalee to view the housing on the ground were Commissioner Berry and I. And I think this board, if you, you Page 21 May 15, 2001 know, wanted to do something that might get some awareness, I mean, I think this board would show up in Immokalee if that were something that might help bring some attention. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Tom, do you want to comment on that? MR. OLLIFF: Okay. We've got a proposal to reschedule the district commission meetings that we had done two years ago that I thought were successful, but we did them in the summertime. So we're -- we're trying to plan ahead a little better and prepare district meetings for the season coming up at the end of this year, the beginning of 2002. So beginning in December, just running by district numbers, we'll start with District I in December and then January, February, March, and April, have the remaining commission districts. So in April of next year, if the schedule stays as it's proposed, you would have a district meeting in the Immokalee community, which is a good time because April -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: When? April. MR. OLLIFF: April is still season there, and you should have the full community available to be able to have a community meeting. And, frankly, I think it gives Dora a little time to be able to get the program a little better organized and under her feet. And we should probably have some good productive things to be able to tell the community at that point. MR. MIHALIC: Well, we have an Immokalee workshop scheduled for the board later in the year, and we'll obviously have an update and progress report on where this program is. COMMISSIONER FIALA: The hardest people to reach are the people that need your information the most. MS. VIDAURRI: Right. COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I'm thinking the only way to do it, they're not going to reach for the information, even if they're Page 22 May 15, 2001 sitting at a bulletin board in the church. MS. VIDAURRI: Exactly. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I think they actually have to hear it over from the pulpit, and they have to hear it over and over and know that there's a person there, and they have to hear it at each mass or service. I truly believe that's the best way to reach the people who need it the most. Others will go to meetings, you know, that don't need it. COMMISSIONER HENNING.' Well said. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Absolutely. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thanks. MR. MIHALIC: Any final questions for Dora? We're going to shift another presenter in. MS. VIDAURRI: In closing, I'd like to thank the commissioners for allowing this to happen. Thank you. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you. Good luck. MR. DUNNUCK: And, actually, before Dora -- before Dora takes off, I'd like to acknowledge Dora's efforts in the -- the first three months she's been here. She's really done an outstanding job, and she really deserves a lot of credit. She's looking at issues in the planning department saying, you know, we need to change this, we need to organize this a little bit better. And -- and she's really -- I'm very proud. She -- she's the ideal person that you hire. She's aggressive. She takes the initiative on her own, and she's the type of person you have to say stop to, not go. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Don't say stop. MS. VIDAURRI: Thank you. MR. MIHALIC: Dr. Durso. MR. DURSO: Good morning. My name is Sam Durso. I think I've met most of you. As you know, I'm the president of Habitat for Humanity of Collier County. I've been doing this job full time now for eight years. I've been out there. I've seen these trailers. Page 23 May 15, 2001 I see where people live. I've been out there working on houses. I represent an organization who is trying to provide everyone with a simple, decent place to live. And our secret is that we offer people a hand up and a hand -- and not a handout. I'd like to make a quick comment on Pam's remark about getting the word out. We do get the word out pretty successfully, and the way we do it is through the churches. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The only way. MR. DURSO: That's the only way. You know, whenever we aren't sure, you know, we get tons of applicants. And one of the ways we do it is we have a lot of the churches, you know, talking about Habitat. And that works, and it -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good. MR. DURSO: -- works in Immokalee as well, so we -- we've got to do that about all -- all the programs, I guess. Worldwide Habitat has now completed a hundred thousand houses in 25 years, which is unbelievable. That's a typical Habitat house. They actually all start out the same, but the homeowners all individualize them very, very much. Habitat has done a hundred thousands houses worldwide. In Collier County we're actually the oldest affiliate outside of America's Georgia. Habitat was started in 1978. Miller Fuller, the founder of Habitat, came down to Immokalee in those days, and things were even a lot worse then than they are now and saw the need, and a Habitat chapter was started. In the first three years they built nine houses. By 1988, their tenth anniversary, they had built 50 houses. By 1993 a hundred houses were completed. I worked on the 100th house in Immokalee which is on Habitat Circle right behind our office. At that time the need was discovered in Naples Manor, and we started building in Naples Manor. And now in the last 8 years we built 148 houses in Naples Manor. We built an additional 117 Page 24 May 15, 2001 houses in Immokalee. So we have about 350 houses between Immokalee and Naples. We built houses in both places. There's need for affordable housing in both places. And obviously we've got to concentrate a lot of efforts on Immokalee. We -- we certainly want to keep doing that, and we will keep doing that. There are bad trailers in Naples as well. out in the -- But don't kid yourself. There's horrible trailers COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The end of Bayshore Drive, I dare anybody, drive all the way to the end. MR. DURSO: There's tons of them. And we -- we actually get about 700 applications a year for the 50 houses we build. We're actually going to do 54 this year. We hope to do more than that. Of those we get about maybe 350 to 400 in Naples and about 250 to 300 in Immokalee. So we get tons of applications in both places. In Immokalee in the last three years, Habitat has built over 90 percent of the single-family owner-occupied houses. So we're the main provider of single-family owner-occupied houses in Immokalee right now. Right now we're very proud of our Carson Lake subdivision. All -- the only thing that's missing is a gate out front and it would look like any of your typical gated communities in Naples. But I invite all of the commissioners -- please go out and look at Carson Lake because it really is a beautiful community. In Naples Manor we've been building on scattered lots. We first went in there eight years ago. At that time we were buying lots very cheaply. We've kind of worked our way out of the market. We have built 140 houses. We have 30 more lots there. We'll be just about done a year from now. There -- there -- I know -- there are no longer empty lots in Naples Manor. Once we--, Page 25 May 15, 2001 COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can -- can I ask a question? You know -- you said you've kind of worked yourself out of the market there. Are you going to talk about that or -- MR. DURSO: Yeah. What -- what happened was, once we started building there -- when I -- understand, I -- I -- I physically am in Naples Manor six days a week leading the construction efforts. And when we first went in there eight years ago, it really was a pretty much rundown neighborhood. There was an awful lot of crime, and a lot of -- you know, a lot of messy areas. By us building the 150 houses we built and clearing another 30 lots, other builders went in there starting about 6 or 7 years ago, and they started building. And they found they could build houses for this market, the under-hundred-thousand-dollar market. They built about 200 additional houses. So there's about 350 new houses in Naples Manor. And as you ride around, it really is not a bad place now. The one negative is there's 40 fourplexes in Naples Manor. They are mostly trashy, and we've been trying for years to buy them, to tear them down, to replace them. We can't buy them, okay. They're making a fortune on these buildings, okay. And -- and so they don't want to sell them, okay. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I was wondering, how could we assist for -- for landlords to leave their place in such disreputable repair and then charge these people an arm and a leg, it's just disgusting. MR. DURSO: That's what happening. And I don't -- I don't know what we can do about it. Obviously you need -- you still need someplace for those people to go when they get thrown out of their housing. So that's -- that's one issue. But we certainly would be willing to work along with the -- both the -- Naples and Immokalee. I mean, you know, Jim is worried about what to do with -- with the people when you throw them out of the houses. Page 26 May 15, 2001 The people that are legal residents we will try to take care of. We -- we obviously want to try to take care of those. We have a couple of homeowners right now, new homeowners in Immokalee, who are coming out of trailers. And we're going to make sure that those trailers get destroyed the day they move out. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Good for you. MR. DURSO: The trouble is, we've got to do more of that. You know, we -- we can't just do one or two cases. We're going to do that with all of them, and we will try to do that. That -- that's our call. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Any help you need, just call my office, and I'll make sure I'm personally down there. COMMISSIONER FIALA: He's got his own sledge hammer. MR. DURSO: Yeah. We're -- we're ready to do it. We're going to do it. Okay. Okay. Next slide. Our homeowners are the -- are the working core, okay, essentially the people that are working in the service industry. Our average homeowner is probably making about $22,000 for a family of 4, but we actually will go up to $32,500 for a family of 4. They have to live in substandard housing, which is very easy to find. They have to put in 500 hours of sweat equity. That's one of the keys of our program. Because the homeowners put the sweat equity, they really have a pride of home ownership. We also get to know them very well during the sweat equity process. And this helps us. We develop a relationship that will continue over 20 years with these homeowners. We do have an extensive homeowner training course with budgeting, home maintenance, predatory -- predatory lending. There are a lot of organizations in this community that really take advantage of this population. And we're there to stand up Page 27 May 15, 2001 and try to protect these people, and we do. Every single day we have stories about unscrupulous lenders, people doing columns, a whole bunch of issues that we try to handle with them. So we provide social services for our homeowners as well. Our homeowners have to be legal residents of Collier County for at least one year, so they have to be legal. I will say that a lot of them probably did start out as migrants, though. So I'm not sure how you get from being a migrant to being a full-time legal resident. But if you look at the history of our homeowners that go way, way back, a lot of them probably did start out as migrants. We sell the houses at our cost, which are about $57,500, but we give them an interest-free 20-year mortgage. So the payments on our houses right now are about $210 a month, which is crazy. It's really Iow. So we actually have room to go up. Our house costs are going up. The problem is, we get our money back over 20 years. We don't get it -- get it up front, because we carry the mortgages ourselves. So even though we raise the house prices a little bit -- and we probably will over the next couple of years, as land gets more expensive -- the effect to the homeowner is -- is minimal. We can raise our house prices to $65,000, and the payment will only go up to about two twenty- five to two thirty a month. Now, they still have to pay taxes and insurance, and that's about an additional 130 or $140 a month. So the payments are still around 350 a month. But for a family of four living in a three- bedroom, thousand fifty square foot house, this is -- this is a great price compared to the rents that are available. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sam, the point I wanted to make earlier about Naples Manor is people think sometimes affordable housing degrades property values. And in Naples Manor, you have raised the property values so extensively you just about Page 28 May 15, 2001 can't afford to buy lots in there anymore for Habitat. MR. DURSO: Right. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just think that's a real important point to make, that Habitat homes raised the value, not lowered the value of the community. MR. DURSO: On that last slide -- go back -- go back to the last slide. On the last -- the last item says the houses are valued -- the houses are valued at seventy-nine nine. Actually, one of our houses just -- in Naples Manor just sold on the resale market for seventy-nine nine. It's unusual for our homeowners to sell them because they have a hard time replacing them. But this home when they got married had high income and moved away, sold the house for seventy-nine nine without central air conditioning. We went out and just got our houses appraised, and one of our houses in Naples Manor just got appraised for eighty-five five, which doesn't surprise me. And in Immokalee and Carson Lake, we're going to get one of those appraised. I'm sure the appraisal will come in at over $90,000 because they're waterfront houses on lakes. The lots are extra big. So -- so our houses are appraised quite high for the price we're selling them. All right. Next. As far as -- I'm going to get to the slide again. I just want to say a few more words. We have about 10,000 Collier County residents that support us in various ways. We have 3,000 active volunteers with a hundred per day helping us build. We're the main provider of owner-occupied housing for the service industry. Our homeowners are all legal tax-paying residents of the county. This year they paid $150,000 in real estate taxes. Now, as we add 50 houses a year, that number is going to go up dramatically. Habitat has accomplished a great deal over the last 23 years with very little government help, and maybe that's been partly our fault. We probably wanted it that way. Because of our large Page 29 May 15, 2001 base of volunteers and the sweat equity of our homeowners, we can build houses very efficiently. However, the new issue is land. And land prices have escalated dramatically for everybody in the last couple of years. In 1998 we were paying about $10,000 for developed lot costs. I don't have the figures farther back, but 10 years ago we were paying $5,000 a lot for a developed lot. But in 1998 we paid $10,000 for a developed lot. In '99 we paid 12,000. In the year 2000 our lots were 14,000. This year they're costing us 16,000. Next year the lots will cost us at least 23,000 and probably more. We just paid an outrageous sum for mitigation which added $5,000 a lot to the parcel we're developing in East -- East Naples. And that's not unusual. I think that's going to happen with every parcel we try to go and develop now. So land is at a premium. Okay. We actually right now have 400 lots in our inventory. We've been very aggressive over the last couple of years, and we have purchased a large -- a lot of parcels of land. Unfortunately we still have to pay for that land; we have to develop that land. And we need to spend millions of dollars developing that land and getting all the approvals. And it's taking us at least a couple of years to get the approvals. We are not land developers, or at least we don't want to be land developers. It's not something that I thought I would do two years ago when I took over as president of this organization. We're very good at building houses. We're not that good at developing land. But we've tried to do it, and we'll probably continue to do it. But that's the one place where the county could help us the most. We're house builders. We can build a lot of houses. We can build a hundred houses a year without any effort at all. In Naples Manor we've been building on scattered sites. Once we get into a location where we can build in one Page 30 May 15, 2001 place, we can double our input very, very easily. We can do it in Immokalee as well. So I challenge you: If you find us land and help us pay for land, we'll build a lot more houses. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. One of my concerns is the fact that it seems like everything is being done only in certain areas of the county when the work force is needed throughout the whole county. How can we go about at some point in time getting communities such as Marco and Naples and North Naples to realize there's an absolute necessity for this kind of -- kind of housing, and can we offset the cost maybe of the land but with an impact fee so we can bring the costs down? I -- I think it's criminal to keep putting everything in one little area just because of the cost of land. MR. DURSO: We agree. Yeah. We're glad to build everywhere. Our -- our -- our workers come from the entire county, you know what I mean, so it doesn't matter where we build. Give us a piece of land, and we will build. Okay. I think, you know, one of the problems in this county, as you see, we got a lot of jobs. The jobs are going up. In Lee County they're not going up as much. In Lee County Habitat does the same number of houses as we do. The difference is they pay about a thousand dollars a lot for their lots. They're either given to them by the city -- they just bought 300 lots of land in Lehigh Acres for $600 apiece. They laugh when I tell them we're paying twenty-three to twenty-five thousand dollars. But the president of Lee County Habitat says, "Take a look at Route 75. Your workers all live in Lee County." now, maybe that's what the people in Collier County want. I don't want it. I want the service people to -- to be able to live near where they work. So your point is well taken. Find us land. We're talking to the City of Naples about a small piece of land that we may be able to develop there. We're certainly willing to do it. Page 31 May 15, 2001 In North Naples, I don't know. We've been looking for land everywhere. I -- we were approached -- when you were having the sewer problem, we were approached by somebody that had a piece of land in North Naples that might be available for us. As soon as the sewer problem disappeared, the price went up and they didn't want us anymore, okay. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm kind of hoping we start to go into next year's session with a HUD grant that we get the City of Naples and Marco Island -- last year what was it? $600,000? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Five hundred. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: $500,000 went to both communities. This is basically money that should have been earmarked for -- for affordable housing to some degree. But they found a way to turn it around and apply it to other uses. I think that was taken with the intent that was there and twisting it. Why should communities like Golden Gate, Naples Manor, and Immokalee carry all this type of housing? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Especially when this kind of housing is good for the community. Let's just keep pointing that out, CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, wait a minute. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: This kind of housing doesn't reduce property values. CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm going to inject something here because I believe in what Sam does to the core, and I want to do everything I can to find land. Land is land. I grew up in a city. I grew up in a neighborhood that was made up of working families. Now, you're telling me that my working family neighborhood should have been spread over ten blocks one way or the other where they had multimillion-dollar homes. The reality is there are blocks of homes in areas that are affordable. The fact is, there isn't the land in North Naples. I can't go out and create it. Page 32 May 15, 2001 If there was, I wouldn't have any problem in putting it there. The reality is, you go and get the land where it is. These are great homes. You build substantial communities. I think that's the goal, and I'm not too concerned about where it's built. Can we get -- and you said you're not in the land development business. I agree, Sam, but we have a lot of people in this community who are. MR. DURSO: Right. CHAIRMAN GARTER: Cooperatively we reach out and help them to help you. MR. DURSO: And that -- that's what we need. I mean -- and your point is well made. CHAIRMAN CARTER: I agree, Sam. And I -- and I will apologize to the audience and the crowd. I'm not disagreeing with my fellow commissioners. My goal is to find the land. And the reality is you've got to go where it is. I can't change demographics, and I can't change economics. But that's been around since Caesar so... MR. DURSO: I agree with you completely. I think if we take that stand, the stand of, you know, trying to find land in North Naples, then we may be out of business. Do you know what I mean? It's going to be -- it's a nice thing, but I'm out there looking. I've been out there looking for the land. And I have four, five people on my board who are out there looking for land everywhere. There is no land in North Naples. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Possibly those HUD grants that we see for $500 apiece, they could give them back to Habitat for Humanity, be able to bring down the cost of land someplace in North Naples, if such land was available. MR. DURSO: But find the specific piece of land. That's what I challenge you: Find the specific piece of land, and we'll go out and try to find a developer. It's not there. I mean, you'll -- you'll Page 33 May 15, 2001 have other people here can tell you, the land is not there. There still is plenty of land in this county. There still is plenty of land that's not going to bother your constituents. Maybe that's not a nice way for me to put it, but let's look at the facts. And one of the things that can be done, if you take Route 41, for instance, go up 41 on the other side of 951. There is tons of empty land out there, okay. It's high, dry land. It doesn't have wetlands. It doesn't have environmental problems. The only problem is it's agricultural land right now. Take a piece of that agricultural land. Take two or three hundred acres of that agricultural land on 41, on the north side of 41, 2 or 3 miles out, out north -- north of Garguilo Farms. Take a piece of that land. Specifically rezone it for affordable housing. What happens is, we can buy that land cheap, maybe 2,000 an acre, maybe 3,000. Even if you paid five thousand an acre, that's a lot better than paying sixty to a hundred thousand dollars an acre, which is what land costs everywhere else. So that saving can build a ton of houses. It doesn't cost you any money. You just let us find a piece of land. You rezone it specifically for affordable housing. We'll take two or three hundred acres, and you see how many houses we'll build. We'll build tons of houses. Look at Carson Lakes. See how -- what a great project that is. We'll make a Carson Lake project right there in Naples. Now is that East Naples? It's actually in your district, right, not -- and it's not a bad area. It's an area where we're close enough to town. Our homeowners would like to live there, and I don't think it would offend anybody. Even The Conservancy would be on our side. We've already talked to them. That's another one they would like to see us go because there's no environmental problem. So what stops us from going there is it's outside the urban area. So it would take some kind of plan to put it in your fringe area and get it -- get it rezoned. That would save Page 34 May 15, 2001 a ton of money and we could apply a lot of housing. In Immokalee I've looked for more land also. It's not easy to find land in Immokalee; you know that. The problem in Immokalee is there's only three or four families that own all the land. I've met with them. I've tried to find more land. We just bought another piece of land on Lake Trafford Road where we can build about 150 houses. That's great, but it's a drop in the bucket. We need to know where we're going after that. We've already set the seed to find other land out there. We may have to do the same thing out there. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Question: Would that be a down zoning, ag? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Not from ag. MR. OLLIFF: Ag is your base level of zoning. So anything that you allow for development on top of ag is generally considered a zoning move up. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The question there is outside the urban boundary. COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's right. That's what I hear the doctor asking us to do is to provide services outside the urban boundary line. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And as we look at the fringe and the rural land study, you know, that would be the only kind of situation where I would be willing to talk about densities higher than rural densities is for urban -- I'm sorry -- for affordable work- force housing outside the urban boundary. And hopefully we're going to be seeing some recommendations. When are we, John, going to be seeing fringe? MR. DUNNUCK.' June 13th. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: June? MR. DUNNUCK: Excuse me. June 13th is the workshop on the rural fringe where we're going to be bringing some policy- Page 35 May 15, 2001 level decisions. And -- and they will be broaching the subject of cjustering and density issues in the rural fringe. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And will they -- is there anything in their recommendations yet that relates to work-force housing, or have they looked at that as an issue yet ? MR. DUNNUCK: They have looked at it as an issue, and I believe that is going to fall in with the cjustering and density issues that you're all talking about. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The bottom line for me -- might as well let them know -- if we're going to talk about cjustering and increasing density in any of those fringe areas, it's going to be for work-force housing. I'm -- I'm not interested in cjustering for more golf course communities or increasing densities for more of what we have inside the urban line. But for a Habitat community, I'm interested. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Uh-huh. And -- and just echoing a little bit of what Jim Coletta said before was, as we look around, maybe we have our real estate department that might be able to identify some land in the northern end. One of the problems that the construction industry has is they don't have a work force close by. Another problem, these people we talk about are clogged roads and traffic. Yet the work force comes out of -- out of East Naples or out of Fort Myers, clogs up the roads -- everybody complains about the traffic -- in order to get to their jobs that are in North Naples, whether it be hotels, restaurants, hospitals, construction. That's where the work is. And I think it would be great if we would find a way -- you know, if we could identify some people to help you find land so people can live closer to their place of employment. MR. DURSO: It may still have to be outside the urban area, I mean, even in North Naples. For instance, what you're saying, why not take a piece of land on Immokalee Road out by Twin Page 36 May 15, 2001 Eagles and do the same thing, rezone that for work-force housing. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's outside the urban boundary. MR. DURSO: It's outside the urban boundary. The reason it has to be outside the urban boundary is because I don't think anybody can afford to buy land within the -- within the urban boundary for affordable housing anymore. We've done it, and I don't think we can afford to do it anymore. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Be realistic. There's not any undeveloped. Everything is already in a PUD or DRI inside the urban boundary on the north side. I mean, that's a done -- that shop's closed, so get a PUD map and look at it and you'll see. We're not talking about values. We're not even talking about prices. We're talking about development is already done inside the urban boundary on the north side. It's a done deal. But we do have some fringe areas coming up, a couple of them, on the north end, that maybe that's where we will have an opportunity. MR. ELLIS: Commissioner Mac'Kie, we've discussed some of that on the fringe committee. You know I'm on the fringe committee, and we've discussed some of those issues. Greg came and made a presentation some months ago. And at the June 13th meeting you're probably not going to hear specific recommendations as relates to housing affordability because, frankly, that wasn't in the governor's order. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I know. MR. ELLIS: We talked about it, and there's an opportunity. And maybe some direction back to the committee would help clarify your intent. We've been working on some of the base issues of that final order for well over a year now, and -- and that -- that is something I think we can add to the mix and probably should and some direction back from you-all on the 13th would be real helpful to the committee and where you'd like to Page 37 May 15, 2001 see it go. So just something to kind of keep in your memory as we come back in June. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, going to the commissioner's commission on growth management, that was part of the element in there, is the affordability of -- of homes in areas that -- that the county needs to provide. And what I'm hearing today is the only place that we can do it is in the rural fringe or rural area. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What David is saying is they haven't found us -- they haven't found us not in compliance yet with regard to affordable housing issues. They have found us not in compliance with regard to environmental issues. So -- but -- but -- but Commissioner Henning is right. I think the state would respond favorably to our, you know, identifying some areas for work-force housing as a part of the solution in the fringe. MR. ELLIS: And I think without question -- and go back to what John said about the cjustering and some of those opportunities, creating opportunities where we can do more for affordable housing. And I think the state would find that very -- a very positive thing -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Exactly. MR. ELLIS: -- although they probably -- didn't specifically ask us for that, if we brought that to them, I don't think they'd respond negatively at all to that. MR. MIHALIC: You know, Commissioners, the final order exempts work-force housing for the moratorium order -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right. MR. MIHALIC: -- for farm workers. Why is a farm worker, a very Iow income farm worker, any more needy of housing than a very Iow income retail salesperson? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You know why that is? I'll just tell you, it's because -- and I was the chairman at the time Page 38 May 15, 2001 cutting that deal. It's because of the ignorance of those of us in positions of authority to this issue. I mean, you haven't -- we haven't known. And -- and we knew that farm-worker housing was a crisis, but until now I don't think this county has officially acknowledged that work-force housing is a crisis. MR. MIHALIC: Well, Commissioner, I was -- I asked to have input into that, and I was told that work-force housing was a specialty issue -- it was not being discussed -- either with the attorneys who were handling it or the consultants. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I know you tried to do that at the time, but it's a different board now. COMMISSIONER FIALA: With -- with the money that the county receives from the City of Naples and the City of Marco Island -- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: They don't receive; that's the problem. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, from -- from their wor -- so that they -- to accommodate their work-force housing, don't we have an agreement -- MR. MIHALIC: No. We have an agreement with -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- both cities? No. We have an agreement with the City of Marco Island that pays a portion of their building permit fees. In the first six months they have paid us $36,000 to our affordable housing trust fund. The agreement with the City of Naples, they allow us the use of their SHIP funding, which is a little over a hundred thousand dollars a year, and we administer and oversee that. Those are the contributions that they make. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Isn't that -- I supposed it's supposed to work out to a hundred thousand for Marco. What I'm saying is might that help Habitat buy land? You've got $200,000 a year from two areas that in order to meet their allocation for Page 39 May 15, 2001 affordable housing give the county this money, I think that would be a great thing to help us -- MR. MIHALIC.' We've loaned Habitat almost a million and a half dollars last year. They now are getting a $600,000 grant. So, you know, a hundred thousand dollars is a drop in the bucket when you're talking -- when you're in this area. But we encourage and assist Habitat substantially. MR. DURSO: We actually met with the City of Marco Island, and they said that they would be more than glad to recommend that we get that hundred thousand dollars that they give. And I said, "Well, you know, you don't have to recommend it. I'm sure if Greg gives me that, he's going to take it out of another pocket, you know. I -- I won't even ask him for it.". But I think -- let me conclude that I think that -- I've certainly made the point that we need service -- service on housing. We could play the gimmick on the farm worker housing and build just housing for farm workers if we wanted to. You know, that's crazy, okay. I mean, that's not the way this should be done so -- but in long-term solution here -- and that's what I'm talking about. We -- we have enough land for the next three or four years. We're looking for a long-term -- a long-term solution is to find some available land in other places. And maybe on 41 is one place. Maybe on Immokalee Road, near a town is another place, and anyplace else you can think of we'll be glad to build. You get us the land; we will build. And we're -- we dramatically have increased the size of our organization the last two years. I plan to do this for a long time. I know we can build our organization even much, much bigger. We can build 200 houses a year some day if you give us the land. So you find us the land; we'll build the houses. If you don't do it, then this Habitat chapter will disappear and merge with Fort Myers; we'll build all our houses in Lee County; and all the Page 40 May 15, 2001 service population can drive up from Lee County. We don't want that to happen. We want them down here. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Dr. Durso, let me ask you this question: I think when we met in January, we were looking at and asking the questions, how do other communities address this issue of finding land? Have you been able to -- MR. DURSO: Right. CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- find out some things to help us? MR. DURSO: A coup -- a couple of interesting things. Jacksonville -- but the biggest Habitat chapters are all in Florida. Jacksonville Habitat -- and Dave's very familiar with that because Dave -- Dave Ellis came from Jacksonville -- built 200 houses last year. They're building 125 this year. We're actually in second But they're doing place. They're the only chapter bigger than us. dramatically more than we are. Now, how are they doing it? It's a big city. But the real reason they're doing it, they pay nothing for land. They've got an agreement with the city that the city will supply them with a hundred lots of land every single year. So every year they get a hundred lots of land for free. CHAIRMAN CARTER: How do they do that? MR. DURSO: Well, because it's a different community. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. But the process -- they might -- they do it the same way we could do it, and that is by raising taxes for the purpose. I mean, you know, I'm not -- God knows I'm already the tax queen out there in the community, and I don't suggest we do that again. But that is how other -- some communities do it. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: May I suggest -- I'm sorry. I don't mean to jump in front of you, Dave. May I suggest that we -- seriously. We've got all these lots -- these -- I think there's 84,000 units out there that are basically ready to be permitted, Page 4t May 15, 2001 haven't been yet but could be in the near future. And that's one of the reasons why we can't build affordable housing in North Naples. I'm listening. But now also, too, I realize that before they go in they have to pay impact fees. I propose that we have an impact fee for affordable housing where we can use that money to do just what you said. We've got to have a funding source. The new people coming down are going to require so much of a work force to support them, I'm sure we can come up with an equation that would make the whole thing work out. MR. DURSO: Lee County has that kind of fee. And -- and, actually, it's the deal where they can either build affordable housing as part of their comp list -- comp -- their project or they pay a fee. And obviously nobody has built affordable housing yet. They just -- don't pay -- don't pay a fee, but miti -- we can call that mitigation. A mitigation impact fee for affordable housing would be great. Now, if you do those two things, do the mitigation fee and rezone land in the fringe, we've got things -- we've got things solved. We'll build the houses. CHAIRMAN CARTER: I don't want to exasperate the problem by raising an impact fee and driving more people out of first-time homeownership. All we've done is create the problem. Whatever it takes, I'm willing to go there, but be careful you don't penalize people buying their first home. MR. DURSO: If you ask me, the one thing that I want, rezone the land. Rezone the land. You rezone land; it keeps the land much less expensive for us. We'll raise money elsewhere to pay for the houses and the land. You rezone the land. It doesn't cost you anything to do it. MR. ELLIS: Commissioners, I will add, I -- I was very involved in Jacksonville. We had an affordable housing commission that I was on for many years. Page 42 May 15, 2001 One of the things that really worked there was the partnership between the housing providers and the government. The Habitat in Jacksonville gets those lots. And it's something we don't have as much opportunity because Jacksonville is an older city, but these are homes that they've condemned, tore down. And they give for a dollar the lots to Habitat and say, "Build us a good, decent, affordable home." and they were doing that, and they were solving two problems in the community. They were replacing inferior housing and at the same time bringing it back on the tax rolls in a very positive way. And it was really a partnership, and everybody got involved. I think that's one of the things we'll find today as we look at this issue, there are some answers, but it's going to take all of the community pulling on the rope together private and public. One of the -- I represent the housing and construction industry. This is a big issue for us, and it's -- I'm on Sam's board. And I'll tell you, we have a lot to be proud of in our Habitat chapter here because I've had the opportunity to work with them around and to see what they're doing here. The magic of our Habitat chapter is really I see it in two ways. First of all, it's the unbelievable volunteer base. You will never -- it's the most amazing thing to see the folks working on these houses. And the other thing that our Habitat group does is they just don't build good houses. They make good homeowners. Good homeowners become good neighbors. You heard the lady at your commission meeting last week. That house didn't just give her a place to live; it changed her life. I think what they do is they change lives through housing, and the house is really just a small part of the whole equation. Those people are vested in those communities, and they make their communities better. I think that's really where the whole magic of Habitat kicks in, and we can't really lose site of what that house provides to that Page 43 May 15, 2001 family. But I think, again, it goes to, again, in Jacksonville, they're handing them over a hundred lots a year, and it's making the community better. Of course, they're using it to do infill and downtown and some of the things that we don't quite have same big older aging city challenges. But they're using it, and I think we could find ways that -- to be that creative and provide those lots for folks like Habitat and other housing providers to do that same thing. MR. DURSO.' Good promo, Dave. The one other thing I'll add -- and I think I've said this before -- one of the secrets for us maintaining the relationship with the homeowners is that we make all our homeowners, 350 families, physically come into the office once a month to pay their mortgage. We have Hispanic, you know, receptionists, and we have somebody that speaks Creole. So we see these people every month, so they tell you about their other problems. Our delinquency rate is very Iow because of that, and we plan to do this as long as we're involved. Even though we're getting bigger, it costs us a lot of money to provide that service. We want to provide that service. That's the way this Habitat chapter will keep doing things. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak, and thank you for all you've done for us in the past and hopefully all you're going to do in the future. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. MR. MIHALIC: Mario. MR. VALLE: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Mario Valle, and I am with Creative Homes of Southwest Florida. Creative Homes of South -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm sorry. Before you start, I'm getting a signal from the magic fingers to take ten. We'll take ten; we'll come right back and start your presentation. I don't want to interrupt you in the middle of it. Page 44 May 15, 2001 MR. VALLE: Thank you, sir. (A short break was held.) CHAIRMAN CARTER: Ladies and gentlemen, we need to start again, please. Take your seat. Ladies and gentlemen, we're ready to start. Please have your cell phones off -- cell phones off, all side conversations stopped, or you take them to the hall, and we'll continue the program. And back to Mario Valle, who is going to talk to us -- and I interrupted your presentation to start, but now you've got all of our attention. MR. VALLE: Thank you, Commissioner Carter. Good morning, Commissioners. I'm Mario Valle, and I am with Creative Homes of Southwest Florida. Creative Homes of Southwest Florida began in 1995 and has helped 571 families with construction of new homes, 98 percent of those for first- time home buyers. The majority of our customer base uses some form of government loan programs which include FHA, VA, and USDA loan programs, as well as using SHIP and impact fee waiver programs as well from the -- from the county. We're a scattered-lot home builder who has averaged about a hundred single -family homes in the Golden Gate Estates, Golden Gate City areas over the last five years. And from 1996 to 2001, the base cost -- or our base unit cost has increased from $65,900 to $86,300, an increase of over $20,000 in the construction of a single-family home. And that's our introductory based model. Overall, the number of models that we have have seen a 26 percent increase in cost. Those figures are hard costs just to be able to produce the home. And land costs in affor -- in the affordable sections of the county on a scattered lot basis, which would be the Golden Gate City, Golden Gate Estates area, have doubled since 1996, and we'll go into more specific examples for you later on in the presentation. But just one quick example would be the lots in Golden Gate Page 45 May 15, 2001 City have increased from $10,000 in 1996 to $20,000 in average sales price today, in today's market, just for an undeveloped without septic and well, which we include in the home price. The density restrictions of the scattered lot situation being able to build on only one lot in Golden Gate City and then only on one lot per acre for 2 acres, however it was split be -- prior to 1974, restricts us from being able to develop an acreage situation with more than one home site on there. And as a result of the increased hard costs that we've seen over the last five years, we are no longer able to produce a home in Collier County for less than $80,000, including the lot and -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Anywhere? MR. VALLE: Anywhere. Because of the -- the -- because of the way we do our business, Commissioner Mac'Kie, we include everything for the homeowner, the turnkey price. So that -- those costs do include the financing portion of their construction loan and their construction interest costs. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It has to. COMMISSIONER FIALA: So that includes everything of the $80,000. MR. VALLE: When we were able to in 1996, we helped 29 families move into homes. And our chart mirrors the county's chart in those single-family home areas, where 1996, we could -- on a $5,000 lot which was not extremely far out, we could produce a home for $67,900. And today that's an impossibility. You couldn't get just the hard costs of building the home without any of the other soft costs or financing costs included in that home price. The spike that you see in 1999 was because the home buyers were purchasing homes that had no garages as opposed to homes with a single-car garage before. And in today's market it's just impossible for us to be able to produce one and -- and stay in business. Page 46 May 15, 2001 COMMISSIONER FIALA: To produce a home for 80,000 you mean? MR. VALLE: Right, correct, because our base price without property is $77,300. And once you add the land costs, which were a number -- about $8,000 for a home, a lot price, and we're talking about being off Everglades Boulevard and 29th Avenue Northeast, the northern end of Golden Gate Estates. For the homes now in 2001 -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: MR. VALLE: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER FIALA: financing for them? -- is it difficult to help to arrange the MR. VALLE: The financing has actually helped because there have been a number of different programs through the loan consortium which will be -- you'll be speak -- you'll be hearing about later on and a different number of programs like Niemiah's (phonetic) which has helped with the Iow down payment assistance or with the SHIP funds that we're able to acquire. What has happened is that the state has mandated a maximum ceiling price on the homes. And when we built homes in 1996, almost all of them qualified for the program. In today's market we only have a very small number of homes that would qualify for those SHIP funds, and then you'll hear more about that later on in the presentation of what the rates -- the department is trying to do to increase that number to try to get it to a more realistic level. This picture is a home -- is our entry-level base model. And this particular home was located in -- on Eighth Street Northeast off of Randall in the Golden Gate Estates. It was built in 1996. Today to -- we have built a home with the exact same situation. The person had to be off 29th Avenue Northeast off DeSoto Boulevard, and they paid $9,000 more for that home. So it was a cost of the home itself and the cost of the land that raised the Page 47 May 15, 2001 price and drove the people to drive further out into the estates in order to live. The next slide shows you an entry-level home off of Wilson Boulevard that in 1996 this home qualified for the SHIP funds program. And it's a very nice home, provides a lot of upscale positives for the community today. This home no longer qualifies for the SHIP program because its price, when you add the land costs to it, exceed the amount of ceiling that is -- that has been set by the state. And then the person buying the home today had to move to 39th Avenue Northeast off of Everglades and paid $8500 more for the home today. So that's the reality of land prices and hard cost construction costs over the course of the last five years. In 1996 the -- generally, the northern portion of the Golden Gate Estates represented affordable lands where you can still purchase at a relatively inexpensive price of, let's say, $30,000 for a 2 1/2-acre site just off of 951; $15,000 for a 2 1/2-acre site off of Wilson; and then $5,000 lots off of Golden Gate Estates. That has shrank, and in the two-year period of time it shrank even from Wilson Boulevard now over to -- go ahead, Cormac -- Everglades. So it's -- it's dramatically seen that movement. To -- to give you an example, Commissioners, in -- about 9 months ago, you could still find a 75-foot-wide lot, an acre and a quarter piece of property on 8th or 16th off of Randall, for $9,000. In that 9-month period of time, that cost has gone up to $15,000 in just that 9-month period of time for a single-family home site in the Golden Gate Estates in that one area. So that movement of - - of property for that affordable home buyer has moved further out. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And if we went to wonder why that's happening, we just need to go back to the first slides on how many people are coming into this community in that price Page 48 May 15, 2001 for Humanity as well. CHAIRMAN CARTER: MR. VALLE: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN CARTER: range because of the employment growth in that area. It's supply and demand, a simple question. MR. VALLE: Right. The other factor -- the other factor that in -- in -- that enters into that equation is the large amount of development that has occurred since that time in the North Naples and -- and the other areas where the construction help has -- the material costs have been taken up by those homes. And because there are higher price levels or higher margins, if you will, we've had a shrinking supply of both labor and construction materials for our end. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Huh. MR. VALLE: We try to stay in this first-time home buyer market simply because of the way it makes us feel. And there's nothing like doing a closing where the family's happy and you're helping somebody move into a home, and what Dr. Durso spoke about before holds true in the private sector, not just for Habitat Mario. Would that -. am I correct in tracking with this that make it all tie to the Orange Tree utilities process is that if we look to the future perhaps we, the county, will be owning that facility in a long-range public utility area? It is there. We can tie in development of homes in that area to that facility. It keeps us within the established framework of whatever this line is we're working around but meets two objectives. Am I tracking with that to keep the septic system and well system, which is a state-wide effort, then we would be compatible in accomplishing a couple of goals? MR. VALLE: Correct, Commissioner Carter, because all of these lots that we construct, the vast majority of them are all on well and septic. And so the increasing mitigation costs with Page 49 May 15, 2001 regard to the environmental issues, as they become more restrictive and as the increased raising of the home price or the home pad -- the house pads themselves for the fill necessary to adequately use a septic system in today's environment is dramatically increased since 1996 as well. So the cost of fill, which is the reason why you see more of those fill pits and what have you out in the Golden Gate Estates areas, are because of those -- those factors. So in order -- in conclusion, what we feel has been the biggest obstacle for us, we can control the production time, which we've been able to keep down to a minimum and the cost of -- of the subcontractors we're able to try to keep those within a working framework. But just to provide some more dramatic examples, in 1996 a 5-acre tract in -- in Unit 5 and 6, which will be very close to -- to 951, you could purchase that for $65,000. And in the multiple listing system closed sales, a 5-acre tract last year sold for $155,000. And even -- even if we move further out and let's say go to Wilson Boulevard where an affordable -- a family wanted to get a 2 1/2-acre piece of property for $16,500, it was very doable. In today's market, their closed sales are averaging $45,000. So it's almost tripled in -- in cost in price for those types of lots. So what we are needing to look at is what Commissioner Carter spoke about, be able to condense those lots to provide more increased density and be able to tie into that Orange Tree area, which would provide us -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: Excuse me, Mario. A possibility that aspects in -- in Golden Gates Estates that we have lots out there, either I 1/2 or 2 1/2, that -. how they're configured -- MR. VALLE: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- is not conducive to build more Page 50 May 15, 2001 than one house. MR. VALLE: Correct. COMMISSIONER HENNING: But if you take a 10-acre or 20- acre tract and divide it up to -- for that first-time home buyer, is that a doable? MR. VALLE: I think it's a very doable situation. To give you a small example, Commissioner Henning, in last year of 2000, we were approached by somebody who owned a piece of property in Golden Gate City. It was one of those large -- larger tracts that hadn't been subdivided by GAC. And somebody had gone in and subdivided the lots into -- there were, I believe, 115 to 120 feet wide and about 145-foot-depth lot. So they were about a half- acre-size parcel, and we sold those lots out in about two weeks and put home -- all single-family homes on those lots in Golden Gate City in a matter of -- we finally C.O.'d our last house about six months later, but that was full time from the time we were approached, we got it under contract, and we sold out. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, and there are more examples out there, and I know one small developer who is going to do just that on -- on that example in the southeast quadrant of Golden Gate City. MR. VALLE: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER HENNING: But I'm talking about Golden Gate Estates where we can make that affordability for the first- time home buyer in Golden Gate Estates. MR. VALLE: As -- as long as you could take the parcel of property and allow for more development of that par -- of that parcel, then it becomes more feasible because it's the raw land cost that drives the price up. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Maybe that's something that the committee from the Golden Gate master plan, part of the charge that we give them is to take a look at the viability of that. Page 51 May 15, 2001 MR. VALLE: Certainly. MR. OLLIFF: That's a great idea. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Good. MR. MIHALIC: Thank you, Mario. MR. ELLIS: Yes. I'm David Ellis. Thank you very much. David. I'm here wearing two hats today, the executive director of the Collier Building Industry Association. And I'll put that hat on first, because I would like to dovetail into a few things that Mario said. One of the .- one of the things in the regulatory environment that we're in is one of the things that is driving up the cost of housing, and it's not altogether a negative thing but certainly the permitting procedures and some of the -- even on a national level we see this all over the country. And I guess one thing we maybe take some solace in, this discussion is taking place in communities all over the United States, and it's not just in Naples. We certainly see this problem in a very acute way, though. And I'll tell you, one of the reasons why it's so important to me as a representative of the housing industry, we're not just talking about the houses we build. I'm talking about the folks that work in the industry that I represent. If you want to see my folks, the guys that work in my industry, go out on 1-75 in the morning, you know. If there's a wreck out there, I can probably get a quorum for my board of directors. If we -- our workers -- they're not just our workers. They're folks that work -- and I was talking to Mario about the folks in his office, that the middle management people have a difficult time finding ways in our community. So it's a very important issue for the industry. What Mario won't say -- it's very difficult for him; it's almost a heroic effort on the behalf of their company, to do what they do. You've all heard me say this. I'll continue to say it. Folks in the building and development industry crave certainty, and they - Page 52 May 15, 2001 - they -- they walk a very fine line trying to deliver this product in the open market. And one of the things that I think we'll have to look at is how we work as a community together to make that happen. And let me take that hat off. One other thing you'll see in the upcoming months, the state has approved a new state-wide building code which is a fantastic thing, but it's upping the level of what will be expected in our housing. And when you talk about just changing the windows in one of Mario's houses, a few more people just fell off the rung. And -- and I don't see that as a negative thing in terms of we want to create the best, most decent housing, but at the same time Marlo is probably looking at the numbers and saying, "Can I still do even what we're doing now?" it's just something we have to be ever presently thoughtful of, just like the fill issues. Some of the fluctuations in the cost of fill may mean whether or not they're profitable and they can stay where they're at. I mean, again, those are things that you-all can't control, but yet there's just a lot of uncertainty for them. I know that's a tight line they walk every day to try to do what they do. Sam's telling you he has a hard time doing it with Habitat with hundreds of volunteers and thousands of dollars in donations and all those things. Imagine how difficult it is for someone in the private sector. COMMISSIONER FIALA.- Well, what I really admire about Marlo -- and you don't -- I don't know you really, but what I admire so much about you is that you're building these homes and your profit margin is very small compared to somebody who decides to build a million-dollar home and their profit margin is large. You have to search for the lots; you have to go out of your way to do this. So I think it's really very admirable to do that. MR. VALLE: Thank you very much. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Ditto. Page 53 May 15, 2001 MR. VALLE: We have to have that large number. We have to hit eighty to a hundred houses a year in order to be able to be here tomorrow or the next day. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right. There's the difference. You have to work a lot harder for your money. MR. ELLIS: Let me put on my other hat. I am the chairman of your affordable housing -- or your work-force housing commission and looking at some of these issues. Just to give you some background, the commission, there's probably eight folks -- matter of fact, if you don't mind, if I can ask the members of your afford -- affordable housing, work-force housing commission to stand in the room. I'd like you just to be able to see them. You know .- I know there's a few of them here. Well, Kristen's here. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: There's some. MR. ELLIS: Yeah. Some have left. These guys -- we work on a monthly basis, and we work with -- in coordination with your staff to try to look at these issues in our community and to talk about ways we can make progress. In March we held a workshop where we invited as many of the affected parties as possible, large employers in your community, housing providers, those that are working in the affordable housing realm, folks like Habitat for Humanity, companies like Mario, everybody who is pulling on that rope together and seeing the concerns and needs. We really just talked -- we took a couple of hours, and we talked about what we saw as the barriers, and then we talked about some of the things we thought we could move towards. Interestingly enough, when you talk to the employers, the cost of housing was an issue. One of the first things they raised, though, was transportation as an issue. The employee who -- I mean, one of the realities in our market is the affordable housing Page 54 May 15, 2001 is -- is probably -- it's removed in many cases from where folks - - the -- where they work, and what used to be maybe a 25-minute drive down from Lee County or from a far-out area now is an hour-and-ten-minute drive in some cases. And where an employee was willing to make that drive before, it becomes a lot more challenging for them, and oftentimes they look for other opportunities because just that extra time and expense it takes to get here for our jobs. And one of the things they encouraged our diligence on was our transportation network and what we can do there because I think one of the things we'll face and you've already recognized today, in some cases we're not going to be able to move the folks closer to the jobs. But I tell you, we came out that workshop -- one of the things that I think if anything that has come out of work-force housing commission and something that I mentioned earlier is the fact that we're all going to find ways to bring -- to expand the umbrella, if you will, for folks that are going to be looking at this issue. And you'll hear in a little bit from Kristen Chesser who works at the hospital, they're spending millions of dollars a year looking at this issue. And they realize that as many people we can get pulling on this rope together with them the better off we'll be. Some of the things that were mentioned and -- and working with the financing communities and outside funding sources and looking beyond our own borders to create better funding programs so we have greater opportunities locally, we have that extra money that we can use, creativity and density bonuses, those types of things. Some of the things we've already mentioned, looking at areas we perhaps didn't look at before. I mean, frankly, working in the housing industry, there are a lot of folks doing good things with off-site-built homes where they bring and put the homes together on site but they can control the Page 55 May 15, 2001 costs and they can do those things. But those are some things in our community we have to look at to make sure it's not just mobile homes; these are homes that are built in a manufactured environment and then brought and put together on site. But that's something as a community we have to make sure we make it accessible to do because that way a builder like Marlo can control his costs in a vacuum and still deliver a price, a house on site. Those things can be done, but there are things we have to be open to as a community. And the other thing that I think it hasn't really been a significant part of the dialogue today but something we can't lose sight of is part of the answer to this question just isn't in homeowners. I'm a huge believer in homeownership because of what it does. Most of our working families, it's the greatest investment and the greatest source of savings that will ever accumulate. But yet we also have to recognize that some of our folks in our community are going to be more appropriate for rental and multifamily-type housing, and we can't look away from that, and I think we have to be diligent in creating opportunities there for developers and builders. And speaking from, again, the perspective of the committee, one of the things that we really hoped and we're real excited about is we didn't want affordable housing and work-force housing to just be the county's dirty little secret but something that we really approach as a community- wide basis. And when these issues come up where it really gets hard as you-all know, because as policy makers for the community, it does get hard when people bring forward an affordable housing or a work-force housing development or a new idea. There may be reaction in our community, and I think it's something that I guess in any way the constituency for this kind of housing is out Page 56 May 15, 2001 there. But I guess we would say to you as policy makers, you know, something that we see from the work-force housing commission to do your best to move forward on those issues because I know some of them are going to be challenging for you as we look at creating those opportunities some of those greater densities that we're talking about or doing some of those things, it's going to take some strong measures on your part to make some of that happen. So again, from that commission, you know, we're .- we're working on behalf-- and I'll tell you, I think you're going to be very pleased with what your staff is doing with the little bit they have. When you see the numbers and how we rate state wide, we do a fantastic job making a little -- making a lot out of a little, if that's a good way to say it, and I think Greg will show you numbers that will you make you feel good about what we've been able to do. And more than anything, we need you to expand that umbrella, expand the funding sources so that we can do more and create greater opportunities. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Ellis, Commissioner Coletta brought up a point how we can get work-force housing in there imposing a affordable impact fee, and being on the committee and being in the industry, I'd just like your input on that. MR. ELLIS: Well, I mean, I -- I think, most of you know from conversations about some of my base feelings about impact fees in terms of they -- they tend to be regressive for the folks that they affect. I mean, in some ways it's kind of like -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: So you don't think growth should pay for growth or -- MR. ELLIS: Oh, well, no, I didn't say that. Matter of fact, I'll remind you, of course, in Collier County we have the highest impact fees in the State of Florida. To that end, I think it's Page 57 May 15, 2001 something that we just need to be sensitive to in how we approach it. I think there are probably possibilities and ways we can fund some of those things and certainly looking at those things, but when you look at the -- the opportunity, an impact fee would be paid for by homeowners and by new businesses, and I think to that end -- or people that are building new buildings. And I think to some extent everybody needs to be a part of that, but it excludes a greater part of our community. I mean, we -- we have an existing challenge, and I'm not sure that how you would do the impact fee to make that work. I'm not saying it's not a possibility. But I'm saying it would only be a small part of a greater solution. So, I mean, it's something that we're going to explore. I know the staff's going to talk about it some more, and I think it's something we need to explore, but it's -- you know, it's -- well, for me, I'm always concerned when you add a cost to a house in order to make it more affordable. In some ways it comes off hard. I know it's some of the things that we'll have to look at if it's a possibility, how we would say tier it or how we would work it for folks. So to answer your question, Commissioner, it's a possibility, but it's something we would have to kind of work into the grand scheme of things. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The issue would be, for it to be legal, you can only assess a fee equal to the impact generated by the construction. So we would -- for example, if there's a new industry coming to town that's going to generate a lot of jobs with $30,000 salaries, then they would be generating an impact to affordable housing and we could charge them for it, although we are trying to encourage industry, clean industry, to come into this county although hopefully at salaries a little higher than that. And at the same time when you think about assessing an Page 58 May 15, 2001 impact fee on a residence, I guess we would say that if you .- if you build a home that's worth $250,000, we assume you're not going to clean it yourself, and so you're going to need a housekeeper, and you're going to need somebody to mow the lawn and, you know, it's -- we have to actually tie the -- the impact to the fee. The other thing that I don't want us to lose sight of, because I think we do sometimes, when we talk about growth paying for growth, we really only are talking about impact fees, growth paying for new construction because we can't lose sight of the fact that a great percentage of the new population in this county doesn't come into brand new houses. You know, growth doesn't pay for growth. It's just not true to say that it does. It doesn't, and it can't under our current mechanism because we don't have the ability to charge a tax or a fee to somebody who moves into our community unless they move into a brand new house. And -- and that ain't everybody. COMMISSIONER HENNING: And, Commissioner Mac'Kie, I think the legislation in the State of Florida is going to change that. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We hope. COMMISSIONER HENNING: So it gives us more opportunities, some of the things that I think my committee is going to be working on, taking a look at. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I hope you can be successful. I have to say I have hoped that for six years and so far not, but I'll bet you'll get it done. I hope you do. MR. MIHALIC: Are you done, David? MR. ELLIS: Uh-huh. MR. MIHALIC: Thank you very much. DR. BLANTON: visit with you again. Denise? Good morning, Commissioners. It's nice to And I'd like to reintroduce you to two ladies Page 59 May 15, 2001 that you met in February, and that's members of my staff, Bonnie Fauls and Marcy Krumbine in the audience. And we came before you in February with George Breeden, and you graced us with a proclamation honoring the work that we had done with the Collier County Housing Loan Consortium. This partnership -- and we can go to the next slide -- has been ongoing for 6 1/2 years, and the public-private partnership has worked together to bring homebuyers education and financing to the work-force population of Collier County. What our local banks did in part .- they've done other things -- is provide a Iow-interest, no private mortgage insurance 30-year fixed loan with 3 percent down, which 6 1/2 years ago was really radical in our community. And what we do through your university extension department is provide outreach -- and we talked about outreach already because of the people that need our programs are some of the last to know. So outreach is a part of it and, of course, education to potential homeowners. And one thing I'd like you to be aware of in regards to potential homeowners, it's anybody anywhere across all districts and all walks of life and probably most people in their lifetime or through their families there's been somebody in need of this type of support, and so that's what we do. And unfortunately you can't very well see our Florida Trend, what they call a washout, and it washed out on this particular slide. But that's to remind you of something important, and I think Ms. Mac'Kie was the commissioner at the time that was on the board when we got this honor. We were approached by Florida Trend because in Dade County there was an issue of a lack of public-private partnership in getting -- in addressing the issue of work-force housing, and they came to Collier County and publicized our effort as an example for the state. And I think Page 60 May 15, 2001 that's something that you would be interested in knowing. Moving on, what I'd like you to be aware of -- and I'll pass out some information -- we got additional recognition through your University of Florida partner. They put out an impact magazine, and I put one of our little -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Rolodex. DR. BLANTON: -- Rolodex cards, so you can help us publicize, too, right, on page 22 to mark the place for you, of the article that was done highlighting the importance of the program. We do, of course, offer classes bi-monthly, and we have ongoing consultations with certified volunteers. And I -- our volunteers are critically important to our effort. And in our particular case when they volunteer to serve, they take a 50-hour course, pass a test, and then are allowed to become family financial counselors and assist in the programming, because no matter who you are, there are things that you may not know about homeownership and how to organize yourself for that. And as already discussed, one of the things that's important to any community is the buy-in, in this -- in this case literally, and then the community involvement, civic involvement that you encourage through homeownership. One other interesting fact listed at the top -- and I was actually surprised by this, and I wrote to you about it about three or four months ago. We are the only endorsed provider of home buyer education in Southwest Florida. The next one is up in Sarasota. And this is, of course, through your efforts and efforts of the past 6 1/2 years. Next slide is important. And we're going to -- we have a little bit of fun graphics here. We like to say that we complete the entire circle for the potential homeowner through individual consultation, the home buyer's education program. And here's where the critical link was for our -- our banking Page 61 May 15, 2001 partnership, home loan consortium. Many times the person is not camera ready. They go into a bank; they're intimidated to begin with; and they find out that they lack something. Maybe it's stability in the length of time they've worked. Maybe they have a credit issue that we were unaware of. Well, we stick with them. We go hand in hand with that person. And we had people that have been in our program clearing up issues for as long as three years, and we've put them into a home. And so we complete the circle and put them into homeownership. And we're going on to the next .- COMMISSIONER FIALA.' Can I ask you how you do that? How do you get the word out to these people that you're available to help them? DR. BLANTON: Through employers primarily. That was part of initial strategy that has worked wonderfully because we will go on site, and all we need is a private spot where you can announce to your employees that this kind of service is available and that we can go one on one with them and explore with them their interest in homeownership. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, how often do you make that happen? Like, for instance, I was with a company for 12 years, and there were a lot of employees with that company. But I -- and you -- you got to them? DR. BLANTON: Yes, ma'am. COMMISSIONER FIALA.. Because I knew that people wanted to buy homes. They were in housekeeping .- DR. BLANTON-. Precisely. COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- and they wanted a, you know -- DR. BLANTON: We had a strong -- we had a strong partnership. A lot of the hoteliers, our own sheriff's department, for example. Of course, Naples Community Hospital is a large Page 62 May 15, 2001 employer. We worked hand in hand, yes. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And I just have to point out, if you look in the slick little magazine we got there, it's a county employee who is featured as a person who the program helped, so it's very close to home. DR. BLANTON: Yes, it really is close to home. You don't have to look far to find somebody that's come through the program. The final thing addresses something -- this is the fourth time you heard it today, Commissioners. You heard it from Greg; you heard it from Sam, Mario, and now I'm the one that's going to say it again. Our issue is finding the homes for our families. You see that loans closed have gone down because product is unavailable. The cost is going up. We could do twice as many if there were that home available for our homeowners. And one other thing that you should know, it reflects the number of -- of loans there that we closed through the consortium. But fully 47 percent of our clients -- we went back in and looked; we were under -- underestimating .- closed on a home through other mortgage options, because sometimes there may be -- for a variety of reasons, they may seek another alternative. Well, what we're interested in is getting them into a home, and we're there to provide that hand-in-hand cooperation to get them there. And if there's no questions, that's our piece. MR. MIHALIC: Thank you. DR. BLANTON: And thank you. MR. OLLIFF: For the new board members, I need to take a moment and point out just how creative a program this is. You just have no idea that there's not an extension department that I'm aware of anywhere -- DR. BLANTON: Huh-uh. Page 63 May 15, 2001 MR. OLLIFF: -- that is actually providing the link between the people who need to get into homes who are intimidated and uneducated about the financing systems that are available for them who have credit issues and then need an education program, and that's where extension staff steps in. They provide that education, and they are working with the banks here in town who need to provide loans for first-time home buyers, and we serve as the link. And we -- we created that program through extension primarily because extension, through some of their other programs, were already in a number of the communities where these potential home buyers were. This is really a -- a great program. I mean, the ability for a university extension program to put that many people into homes is something that you just will not find county government is doing anywhere else in the country. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: How much -- does anybody know how much of your budget is associated with this function? I mean, how much money does the county spend to accomplish this goal because I have a feeling it's not a very big amount of money and you know how the EDC -- God bless them -- and appropriately came in and showed us, you know, we're getting $139 for every dollar we invest. I think this is also a program that we would see a tremendous leverage in -- DR. BLANTON: We don't have our ad valorem that -- you know, they become homeowners and start paying that get year -- year in and year out, thank goodness, not just a one-time deal that is leveraged. And, of course, some of them don't buy new homes, but homeownership is homeownership especially for them. It's homeownership. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We don't spend a lot of money to get this result. I mean, your -. your program is funded by some county taxes but not a great amount of county taxes. Page 64 May 15, 2001 DR. BLANTON.. In large part we rely on the connections and networking with the financial community. MR. OLLIFF: Our total staff investment in this program is two people of which in most cases we're splitting a portion of the personnel costs with the University of Florida. DR. BLANTON: And it's -- it's like the tip of the iceberg too because we don't turn people away. And sometimes we cannot serve them in -- in -- in a large way, but we serve everyone that comes through the door in some way. And for some people, of course, we get them -- we and they have the American dream happen with the homeownership. MR. OLLIFF: Denise, thank you. Greg, where are we? MR. MIHALIC: We're moving down the highway here. Next one, Commissioner. I think we better start moving a little bit quicker, though. Here we have a toolbox of the ongoing programs that we have presently within the county. And we run through our affordable housing density bonus program, down payment and closing cost assistance, impact fee assistance for rental and homeownership, expediting permitting. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, wait a minute. Wait. MR. MIHALIC: Okay. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Affordable housing density bonus program, it says it's a high -- priority high and impact high. MR. MIHALIC: Yes, absolutely. We do more on density bonuses than anywhere else in the state. So this is a very high- impact program. We created over 5,000 units in the last 6 years from the density bonus program. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE.' So I -- I've been under the misimpression that -- that density bonus was not very useful in affordable housing? I didn't think we were getting anywhere. Page 65 May 15, 2001 MR. MIHALIC: Oh, density .- density is the most valuable thing Collier County has. To give density for affordable housing is the key. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I -- but -- but we have had successful applicants because -- MR. MIHALIC.. Oh, absolutely we've had successful applicants. And we still continue to do about two multifamily rental projects per year that utilize the density bonus, as well as for Habitat for Humanity and, you know, some other ownership. And it's no cost, Commissioner. There's no direct cash cost for these programs. And all these programs have no direct cost to the ad valorem tax rolls, and I think that that's probably the most important factor we have here. COMMISSIONER FIALA: But, you know, when you're talking about rental units -- MR. MIHALIC: Yes. COMMISSIONER FIALA.. -- multi -- when -- when you give them these density bonuses -- MR. MIHALIC: Yes. COMMISSIONER FIALA.' -- do they have just a certain criteria that they have to meet for just a few people that rent there and then everybody else has to pay an exorbitant rent? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No. Everybody pays an exorbitant rent. Even the ones who are paying affordable housing are paying 700 bucks for I bedroom. That's, quote, affordable housing. MR. MIHALIC: Most of those rents are a hundred to a hundred and fifty dollars less than market for equivalent structures. In all the deals that we've negotiated recently, at least 20 percent of all the units have to be for those very Iow- income families at less than 50 percent of median income. But the rents are tied to median income. So as median income goes Page 66 May 15, 2001 up artificially, those rents rise more than the .- what people are making in wages. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, in our-- our-. our -- our median in -- income is -- I don't think in any way reflects what people can actually pay in the work force for an apartment because I understand that that's a law that -- that it has to be based on median income. But actually, we should go about changing that to median wage so that then the price of rental, it becomes actually affordable. They call it affordable housing, but it is not. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And this is something I want to -- we've talked around this several times in my years on county commission, and I understand that we can't change the federal law about the income tax credits. MR. MIHALIC: Yes. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So we can't change how the federal government is going to measure who gets income tax credits. But couldn't we adopt a different standard for density bonuses? So couldn't we base our density bonuses on affordable wages -- I mean median wage instead of median income? MR. MIHALIC: That's why we require, before we give any density bonuses -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But that's still not enough. The 20 percent is just not enough. MR. MIHALIC: Well, if-- if the commissioners think it should be 50, fine. But, remember, you get to a point where the developer says, "1'11 build market." and then you have nothing. And 20 percent is really -- you're -- that developer is giving up $18,000 per unit in rent when he rents those at 50 percent of median versus 60 percent of median. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But, but, somebody's got to do the proforma for us to measure the value of the additional units Page 67 May 15, 2001 he gets by virtue of the density bonus against the rents that he loses because of the affordable -- quote, affordable rent, because I'd be willing to give more density for lower rents and -- and we could do that if we based our bonus -- and I'm not talk -- because it's not as simple as 20 percent and 50 percent because I'm talking about trying to make an apartment rent something less than $700 for a single-family unit. And if we did our affordable housing density bonus based on median wage, then we could require them to set their rents based on median wage, couldn't we? MR. MIHAI-IC: Initially you could. Initially you could. But as your median income goes up 10 percent a year, whether you set it at 50 percent or 40 or 30 percent, it will still go up at the median income rent because it's all tied -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Median wage. MR. MIHALIC: No. I'm saying that you -- you must tie your benefits to the Florida Housing Finance Corporation benefits, the Internal Revenue Service benefits. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So we can -- MR. MIHALIC: And those rent increases go up on median income. Now we can -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So if we set the initial rent at $250, then as the 10 percent or whatever the median income goes up, it would go up at that percentage. MR. MIHALIC: Yes, it would. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But that -- but that still would be a huge improvement if we started at a rent based on median wage instead of median income. MR. MIHAI. IC: No matter how much density you gave the developer, if you told him to build $250 apartments, you would have no developers able to do that in Collier County -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I know. Page 68 May 15, 2001 MR. MIHALIC: -- no more than -- no more than Habitat for Humanity can -- can build houses in most parts of Collier County. COMMISSIONER FIALA: And yet they talk about how many families have to live in one place on top of one another practically because they can't afford to pay the rent, and you will admit yourself that many of these positions, our service, our work force, works in hotels, in housekeeping and so forth, and they make barely minimum wage. MR. MIHALIC: That's right. COMMISSIONER FIALA: And yet -- and that same work force usually has children who have to pay an exorbitant amount for childcare, and they have all of the expenses associated with children, and yet they have to pay this rent too. So then they -- they pile in two and three families in order to pay. I mean, to me $730 base rent, that's not affordable. MR. MIHALIC: Well, I think we can do something about that if the commission would agree to densities under the bonus that would be 16 units an acre. That's what's allowed under the affordable housing density bonus, up to 16 units an acre. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Our former board never -- MR. MIHALIC: Right. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Our former board never -- MR. MIHALIC: If you would consider densities up to that level, there is an equation, and there is a proforma. And I can get the rents down to five ten, five twenty-five, something in that range as long as the density increases make it profitable for the developer to do that. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Let -- let me -- let me see if I heard what you just said correctly. MR. MIHALIC: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Are you saying that if we put 16 -- if we allowed 16 units per acre, you could -- and you could -- Page 69 May 15, 2001 COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A developer could. COMMISSIONER FIALA: No. I'm saying Greg could demand that he could not pay -- I mean, that he could not charge any more than, say -- I'm just -- MR. MIHALIC: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- $550 a month. MR. MIHALIC: On at least half the units or some percentage of the units, right. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Now, how do you know that on those half of those units he only charges that? How do you know it isn't two and then when those people move out that it's nothing? MR. MIHALIC: Because they have agreements not only with us but through the Florida Housing Finance Corporation and Internal Revenue Service. They're in there every three months auditing them. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Because the IRS will get them -- MR. MIHALIC: Right. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- if they do anything different, and nobody knows --. COMMISSIONER FIALA: So somebody is actually checking to make sure that they do have -- MR. MIHALIC: Yes. COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- 50 percent rented out at that amount. MR. MIHALIC: But even in the first year we're at $500. If the median income goes up 10 percent like it did this year, next year that rent will be 550 a month. So you have to be sure you understand what's happening. So those deals we negotiated five or six years ago that charged $405 at that time are now seven fifty. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And that's the way it's going to Page 70 May 15, 2001 be. There's nothing we can do about that. MR. MIHALIC: Absolutely. Absolutely. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But the thing that we can change is -- and this is why I had to come back to this slide -- for God's sake, let's don't be patting ourselves on the back about our success with the affordable housing density bonus program because the county commission has not been willing to give the densities that were necessary to make this meaningful as affordable, slash, work-force housing. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's the question, Commissioner Mac'Kie, why were they not? What was the rationale for refusing it? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'll -- I will tell you based on the comments of the people who were on the board at the time there was -- everybody wanted to reduce density; density's a bad thing; residential density was bad for your future and politics in this county and so you wanted to be against density; you wanted lower density, no matter what. And we're paying for that now because of the sprawl issues associated with lower densities and because of the neighborhoods -- you know, nobody wants it in East Naples; nobody wants it where it came in with the applications. And so it was hard to get anything approved. If you could get 8, 12 units, you're darned glad to get them because this board was not going to -- this former board was not going to approve an affordable housing project and certainly not one with density bonuses because density was a bad thing. MR. MIHALIC: But, Commissioner, when you look at what happens around the state, we have more units created under the program than the whole rest of the state combined. Those clients are saving $150 a month and have been for 6 or 7 years in those units. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But it's not a meaningful -- Page 71 May 15, 2001 MR. MIHALIC: It -- it may not be as meaningful as a $500-a- month unit, but it is meaningful for those families who choose to move from market-rate units into those units when they become available. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE'. But, Greg, are you arguing -- are you debating -- because I respect your opinion. Are you debating with me that higher densities are not necessary or are a poor idea? MR. MIHALIC: Absolutely not. But what I'm saying that what we've done so far is -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: MR. MIHALIC: -- excellent. saying. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Better than nothing. Excellent. That's what I'm And I'm saying we need to do -- MR. MIHALIC'. And we can bring you a program that will do more as long as you have two factors. And one of those factors is reducing the risk of the developer. If he has to wonder what's going to happen to him in front of the commission, he cannot afford to do that. He will not spend a hundred thousand dollars to get up and voted down. He'd rather build condominiums. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right. MR. MIHALIC: So we have to move to a way that the developer knows almost by right that if he builds housing at a certain level, he will be approved. And if that's $550, we can negotiate that. There's a trade-off. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Enhanced use of a piece of a land. MR. MIHALIC: Yes, it is. CHAIRMAN CARTER: You lose sight of the word "density." in my judgment, you're talking intense use of a piece of land with all the other considerations around it. I am not against that. Look at all the variables that surround it, the impacts, the potential security, everything that goes on in one of these, and Page 72 May 15, 2001 be careful that you don't end up with projects -- I lived in the city of Chicago. If you've never been there, if you want to see some projects, I'll take you to projects. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: But they're not 16 units an acre, Jim. They're -- they're a hundred. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, they're intense. I'm not against intense. Listen to me, please. I want a developer to come in here and know what he can do. And I want the specifications around that intense iss -- issue of 16 units per acre not to have a slippage in quality, and Mario can talk to and address that far better than I can. And I want to make sure we have a protection of a piece of land in an area that when people go in there, there's an expectation -- I don't care whether you're paying five or six hundred or seven hundred dollars a month; you have some accountability and responsibility as a renter of doing that and -- and doing what you need to do on that property. That's why I like what Sam Durso does so well in Habitat. He controls the environment, and I want that environment to be sure that it's safe and secure for the people living in that environment. So, yes, I have no problem with 16 units per acre as long as we know where we're doing it and all of the other due diligence is done around it. That's where I'm coming from, and I wouldn't - - I wouldn't say no to it, but I want the protection. And I also don't want wavering in the board. As Commissioner Mac'Kie has said, when they come here, there's an expectation we've got to deliver it. My expectation is do due diligence; make sure it's all together; you've got my vote. But I'm not going to go down a path for one variable and any of these things and say I found a magic bullet because I don't believe in magic bullets. MR. MIHALIC.' No. It's all incremental, Commissioner. MR. OLLIFF: I will tell you, too, you get in workshops, and -- and you see clearly what you think is the solution. But you need Page 73 May 15, 2001 to keep in mind that there is a mindset in this community that density is a bad thing. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That's right. MR. OLLIFF: And that is what historically the board has had to deal with. And the public reaction to approvals of units at 16 units an acre is not going to be good. Now, we have seen in a lot of the planning efforts that we have gone through over the last year, including the community character plan, a -- a trend, a general trending, back toward the idea or at least recognizing that there are some benefits to increased densities and developing areas where you're -- the type of development and maybe the design of the development is perhaps the more important factor than is the density. A public facility provider, it is certainly a lot easier to provide water and sewer and infrastructures to dense development in a particular location than it is to try and spread water and sewer out to I 1/2- ,2 -acre type developments. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right. And -- and to go along with that, community character, I think, for the first time brought out the fact that it -- that -- that reduced density created sprawl. I don't think any of us were really aware. We were so conservation conscious that we weren't realizing we were actually shooting ourselves in the foot by doing that. Now, I think people are taking a second look. Now, of course, we come back into redevelopment as well, and we find that a mixed use increases the density, and yet it -- it accomplishes a few purposes all in one area. So I think that the community character did a lot about educating all of us. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, keep in mind in all of that, too, when you talk about these things, when you're talking about sometimes putting needles in the sky, you will hear a whole lot of people come in here and yell and scream that it went up in the Page 74 May 15, 2001 air versus spreading it on the ground. If you look at intense uses, look at Venetian Village, a beautiful project, in Park Shore. And I would -- I've never heard anyone complain about that, but that is an intense, high-density area for units. Design is king, and it can work. But you are right; you're going to have to break the mindset that density is Darth Vader. It is not the case. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. Very well put, yeah, and a good example, right. MR. OLLIFF: And I just -- I'm pointing that out because I think there's going to be a public education effort that's going to be necessary on your part, as well as ours, and I don't think we're all going to be looking at a land use plan in this county that is going to be strictly intense densities, but I think there's going to be recognition that we're going to have a mix of development densities in this community in the future and some of it is going to be much denser than we have probably had in the past. MR. MIHALIC: Well, Commissioners, this is our toolbox. We're going to go through some of these things as we continue on. I really don't want to spend any more time on this page or the next one, Cormac. But let me say the density bonus is only limited to the urban area, and that is a major problem right now. Can we just -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: MR. MIHALIC: Okay. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: second page of the slide. I didn't even get to see the MR. MIHALIC: Expedited permitting and review for affordable housing, we do that, the fast-tracking; homeownership rehabilitation through our SHIP program. We have about 50 homes a year that we rehabilitate. The Collier County banking partnership, which is certainly a good resource and a public- private resource for loans, and the code enforcement lien forgiveness program that you passed a few months ago. No Page 75 May 15, 2001 donations have been received yet into that program. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And what that means... MR. MIHALIC: That we -- we agree we forgive the liens, the code enforcement liens and other liens that the county owned to make the lots affordable. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We haven't even gotten the one that was the instigator to this? MR. MIHALIC: No. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, I'll have to give him a call. COMMISSIONER FIALA: With the SHIP funds -- MR. MIHALIC: Yes. COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- are they strictly used for first-time homeowners, or -- what are SHIP funds actually? MR. MIHALIC: Well, SHIP funds are documentary tax stamp funds that we receive from the State of Florida. We get about $1.9 million a year in new revenue from that, and we use it for first-time home buyers other than our rehabilitation program, which is existing very Iow-income homeowners. And we'll talk a little bit about those programs as we go. But, again, you'll see we get about $1.8 million in new funds every year. Now, all our programs are set up to be revolving. We make loans at zero interest that are paid back. That goes to leverage our program. Even though we're going to receive $1.8 million, we have over $3 million to lend this year, because as we are repaid, that goes back into the cycle. And it has a bigger and bigger pot that we can then turn around and lend out to new home buyers. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I have a question. MR. MIHALIC: Yes. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is -- is this the -- the use of SHIP money that we have chosen, or is this the only available use for SHIP money? Page 76 May 15, 2001 MR. MIHALIC: Next slide, Cormac. This is what we've chosen, and -- and let me try to make this clear, because this is a slide of how other communities do it. And -- and I think you have to understand this, because, for instance, in Lee County, they received more money in 1998 that we did. And -- and the figures from the other counties from 1998, because those are the last state numbers we have, as you can see, we did 182 units, and Lee County who got more money did 112. And that's because Lee County gave $13,000 of subsidy per unit, and at that time we only gave 6300. And if you look down at the bottom, you'll see that when you look at the 2000 numbers that we have for the state fiscal year 2000, we helped 696 clients in our programs, and we -- we then gave each one a subsidy average of $4,508. That's dramatically different than what you see in Dade County or Broward County. We did more units in than all of Broward County with the type of program that we offer, but you'll see we limit the assistance we give very narrowly, and we require repayment. So when a person sells or refinances their house, they have to repay that money. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: When does the board have the opportunity to set the policy on -- I'm starting to think, looking at the information we've seen today, that we may need to help fewer people with greater amounts of money. When do we set that policy? MR. MIHALIC.' Well, you actually just set it with your three- year housing assistance plan, but we can amend that at any time. And if the board chooses to help half the number of people and offer twice as much assistance, we can do that at any time. But let me say that then, of course, half of those 700 families won't get their house, and that's a decision that we can make locally. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And it's something that I'd like Page 77 May 15, 2001 Mario or somebody to give us some help on, because I want to use the money in the most meaningful way. MR. VALLE: The way that we've seen that the SHIP funds work has -- has been most beneficial in the way Greg set it up because we are able to help the largest number of home -- of families. The way FHA allows a person to qualify for a home, their minimum investment can be up to 3 percent, okay, and the rest of the down payment and closing -- or the rest of the closing cost money can come from a seller contribution which can be finance within the home. But if we talk about the $2500 that Greg provides in the form of SHIP funds, on a hundred thousand dollar home, that person may need to come up with only 600, $700 which becomes affordable for that working-class family because it's -- in our experience, it's been the amount of money they have down to put for the home that allows them to qualify. And we're able to help them using Greg's program in this fashion. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And the only other question that I have, because that sounds like exactly the right way it should be used, I wonder -- what I was thinking when I asked the question is, should we be using this money to help bring down the price of the lots so that you can stay in the $80,000 house business? MR. VALLE: Right. I think that becomes more in the sense of -- of the impact fee waiver in trying to use that program. What we've found privately -- that's as a company ourselves -- has become the slightly more cumbersome programmatic things that have to occur with an impact fee waiver that's still paid for by SHIPS that doesn't happen when you have the down payment assistance. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So -- so something that would be a positive would be if we would make that -- that -- that impact fee waiver, slash, payment from SHIP funds automatic instead of Page 78 May 15, 2001 having it go through the cumbersome process that it goes through now. MR. VALLE: Right. As -- as long as -- see, because there are the guidelines for both the impact fee waiver and SHIPS -- and correct me at any time if I'm wrong, Greg. MR. MIHALIC: Uh-huh. MR. VALLE: -- fall into the same income categories, the same family-size category. So while the department is able to authorize the use of SHIP funds for the down payment assistance and issue those within what we've seen from 1996 to now is a dramatic improvement in Greg's department of being able to provide those things rather quickly. We have to wait three to four weeks in -- on our permit process. If we start serving the lot today, our permit will be ready before those funds are available. And they could go ahead and earmark saying, yes, this person is approved for SHIP and the impact fee waiver, that helps it tremendously. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So if we could set that as a policy, if the board could, then that saves you that month and moves the process a little faster. MR. MIHALIC: Well, we made a change to approve those administratively. Cormac, what's our turnaround time now ? MR. GIBLIN'. Our turnaround is probably about, I want to say, six weeks because each individual agreement does still have to go to the county attorney's office and be reviewed. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Why wouldn't it be exactly the same as the SHIP review process? MR. GIBLIN: Those -- those don't have -- those individual contracts are not reviewed by the county attorney's office. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So your Board of County Commissioners could make a policy change similar to that we have -- however you administratively do it for SHIP, you could Page 79 May 15, 2001 administratively do it -- MR. MIHALIC: Well, both our SHIP programs, that's the source. But if we did not have the county attorney's review of the documents for an impact fee waiver deferral, what could we do it then? How fast could we turn those around? MR. GIBLIN: The same amount of time it takes the normal down payment program, probably 2 1/2 to 3 weeks. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So that's where we need to make a change, Mr. Olliff, if you could --. MR. OLLIFF: Standardized agreement. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It's a standard form. MR. MIHALIC: We -- we have a standardized agreement. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Sure. So -- so is that something you could change, or do we have to change it? CHAIRMAN CARTER: We'd have to change it because it's direct reported the county attorney to us. And I believe we'd have to give him direction to work with the standardized report that fast tracks and gets this through quicker. MR. VALLE: That would be very much help. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That would be a good thing. So somebody's got that on a list somewhere I hope. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Is the county attorney here? He was here. MR. MIHALIC: Well, you know, Commissioner Mac'Kie, let me point out that in 1998 you'll see that a hundred percent of our assistance went to those very Iow-income families. We did a lot fewer, but a hundred percent of our assistance went to them. Now you'll see that only 60 percent of our assistance goes to the very Iow-income families. That goes back to the product not being available to allow us to use all our money for those very Iow-income families. We would prefer to do that, and we may offer additional assistance to very Iow. income families to Page 80 May 15, 2001 encourage that, but it's a product issue. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And that's why I asked the question and went to Mario about should some portion -- if our goal is -- and my goal is -- to help the very Iow-income families with this subsidy, I mean, this is a direct subsidy. It ought to go for very Iow income to the fullest extent possible. We certainly have a market. We have very Iow-income people who would like to have this assistance. But as Greg was saying, only 60 percent of it goes to that -- those very Iow incomes because there's not enough product. Thus, the question, should we be using some of our SHIP money to subsidize the land cost so that there is more product available for very Iow? MR. MIHALIC: That would be a direct nonleveraged subsidy. That would have to be a large subsidy to make a difference. So you'd probably be -- be -- have to be giving $10,000 extra per unit for those very Iow income which would dramatically lessen the number of families we could help. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd love to see some numbers on how we could -- I know it would decrease the total number of families -- MR. MIHAI. IC: Yes. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- but it would dramatically increase the number of very Iow-income families that we could help. MR. MIHALIC: Yes, it would. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So I'd like to see some comparisons there because it's the very Iow that the market can't provide a product for. As Mario told us today, the market cannot provide that product. So we're going to get to zero help on very Iow-income units assisted -- MR. MIHALIC: No, we can't legally. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Good. Page 81 May 15, 2001 MR. MIHALIC: Legally we have to be at the 30 percent threshold. And as you see, our numbers are much higher than our surrounding counties. So we're doing a much better ]ob than they are. But the house prices that we're assisting are going up and up and up. There's no doubt that's true. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So -- but there -- that's a piece of information I would very much like to see. MR. OLLIFF: We will bring that back. Greg, I'm going to get you to keep moving. MR. MIHALIC: Yes. Next slide. When you look at the state rankings, there's 114 SHIP communities that participate in the State of Florida, and we are the highest, number one, in the very Iow-income units versus total units produced. We're also number one in the SHIP dollars expended to the total units we produce. And we show that, you know, we'll do more than Broward County does. And, third, our dollar cost averaging our SHIP dollars to the total amount is number one out of 114. You'll see that for every SHIP dollar we spend in Collier County we leverage it with $36 of private funds. That's the highest ratio in the state. And that's by local decision. We can change that at any time. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, when you're comparing very Iow-income units with all of these other 114 participating local governments -- MR. MIHALIC: Yes. COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- are we -- who determines what amount means very Iow income? Is our very Iow income a lot different than very Iow income in Palatka County? MR. MIHALIC: It absolutely is. In some areas the median income may be $30,000 in some of your north panhandle counties. So obviously their very Iow income is $15,000 for that family of 4 where today our very Iow income in 2001 is $32,500 for a family of 4, so there absolutely is a difference. Page 82 May 15, 2001 COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't know if we even have a majority of the board at the table right now. I want to see if -- this is so critical. If it is our goal to use this SHIP money, this is the policy decision for the board. Do we want to help a great number of families -- what is the income level of somebody who's not very Iow but we're helping them? MR. MIHALIC: It could be up to $52,000 for a family of 4. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. So I'm anxious. You know, I -- I want to help everybody. God bless America. But I don't think that -- I'll just tell you, for my vote, I would like to spend our SHIP money, a hundred percent, on very Iow income. And if that means that we have a much smaller number of people but we provide a product by virtue of spending that money on lots that Mario has told us he cannot do it with the market so it's going to dry up to zero if we don't reallocate our SHIP money to a fewer number and so we won't be number one in local governments, but we will be helping in our county because of our median income being so high, it is absurd for us to be spending subsidies on anything other than very Iow. Very Iow income in our county is exactly what you were honing in on there, Commissioner, is very Iow income in our county is a decent living a lot of places. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So we Should be spending this money on very lows, not on moderately lows. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, the product that Mario is providing is that $52,000 range and -- MR. VALLE: What ends up happening -- I'm sorry. Go ahead. COMMISSIONER HENNING: If you split that up by a mother and a father, 25,000 annual. So that is Iow income. COMMISSIONER FIALA: If they can make 25,000. I mean, you know, there's a lot of people that don't make that much Page 83 May 15, 2001 money, or they'll each have to work two jobs in order to make that much money. It amazes me how many individuals only make 16,000 a year. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And those are the ones we should be subsidizing, not as much the 50,000. MR. OLLIFF: And I'm going to tell you you don't have the information in front of you, I think, to be able to make a good policy decision about that. I think you need to direct us to bring that back to you, and we've made that note. But I think it is a very good question, where should -- where do we get the most bang for our SHIP investment. Should it be concentrated at very Iow, or should we continue with the program which continues right now to provide assistance to 40 percent of people that are not very Iow? And we need to have that discussion at a board meeting. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right. And very Iow should be defined. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Very Iow is what it is. Federal government sets it. MR. MIHALIC: Let me say that if we added $10,000 more in subsidy to each client, we would do about 225 clients instead of 700 clients, and that's a policy decision the board -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: It would be 225 clients with annual incomes of 30,000 or less versus -- MR. MIHALIC: Yes, it would. Yup. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- annual incomes of 50,000. MR. MIHALIC: Yes, it would. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And that is a policy decision that the board should clearly have put in front of them to make. MR. DURSO: Can I make a point? Obviously all of Habitat clients are very Iow. We've told you how many are out there. Okay. If we're doing 55 houses right now and we're getting Page 84 May 15, 2001 $2500 worth of SHIP funds for each one, if all of a sudden you decided to make $10,000 available for each one of those, I could do 30 more houses. COMMISSIONER HENNING'- But you're going to dry up Mario's money. MR. DURSO.' But I'm going to dry up Mario's money, right. So that's the problem. MR. VALLE: Those other aspects of the private -- the private sector. And so what you're looking at, Commissioner Mac'Kie, on $30,000 and what somebody could be able to afford if they were to have $350 total debt, okay, in order to qualify for the program, they could only qualify for $675 of a total house payment. That's principal, interest, taxes, insurance, mortgage insurance, you know. And that -- that becomes unfeasible in today's private market per se. So that's why we appreciate the way it's being handled and in the current policy, because it does help assist the majority of those families. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE'- But, you know, no -- no disrespect intended, but when I -- when I start analyzing bang for buck, I'm going to get more bang out of a Habitat house, frankly, because I'm going to get an interest-free loan, and I'm going to get sweat equity, you know, because they have subsidy money too. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, if we beat this anymore, we're going to have to get the sheriff over here for abuse. MR. MIHALIC: The family that gets the Habitat house does have more bang for the buck, but the nine families that don't get their house don't have bang for the buck. CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think this has got to be a direction of staff to come back with a thorough overview on this. I'm not ready to say one or the other this morning. I want to know the big picture again. I want to know what it looks like. And if that Page 85 May 15, 2001 would be sufficient to the board, I think we need to look at all aspects of that in a different -- in a different framework, and we've done a good job here of kicking it around, but let's get all this stuff before we make a decision. COMMISSIONER FIALA: And both sides of the issue so we can look at it realistically. MR. OLLIFF: We'll bring it back. There's pluses and minuses on either side. I just going to remind the board, you've got seven speakers registered. It's ten of twelve, and I'm going to ask Cormac and Greg to put it into high gear here. MR. MIHALIC: Okay. MR. OLLIFF: Thank you. MR. MIHALIC: Here's our big three programs. We talked about them already. Down payment and closing costs -- next one, Cormac -- impact fee relief, and residential rehabilitation program. On the rental housing side, we talked about density bonuses, six-year impact deferrals, expedited permits. And we do about 450 new affordable rental units each year. And the density program limits the affordable housing to only the urban area. And land in this area is becoming too expensive to produce a viable affordable product whether it's rental or ownership. COMMISSIONER HENNING: We need to change that. MR. MIHALIC: Next slide. These are the things that we think you ought to consider for the future. Affordable housing linkage fees, tying some type of fee to the square footage of commercial that's produced. We know that you're going to see impacts there and expanded affordable housing density bonus program, inclusionary zoning, and special consideration in your growth management decisions. Next one, Cormac. We talk about high and Iow impact and the cost of these things, so let's get into each individual one so we're not reading Page 86 May 15, 2001 off of this. Your linkage fees, basically, when you have commercial and nonaffordable residential development, they create an impact. For every thousand square feet of new commercial development, that requires four new full-time employees who are going to work there. For every seven new residential units, that will require one new full-time employee to service those houses. This would be essentially at no cost to the BCC but revenue producing if we adopt a linkage fee of some kind. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Linkage fee tied with a -- a impact fee. MR. MIHALIC: Linkage fee -- I think they're somewhat synonymous, but a linkage fee links it to the use that you have -- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right. MR. MIHALIC: -- rather than calling it an impact fee. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I -- I like it. MR. MIHALIC: But I -- I think it's got to be at building permit time, not at development stages. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The smaller end of the spectrum where people have smaller homes? MR. MIHALIC: I think you can have a threshold. Under 1200 square feet you have nothing. As you go above that, it becomes higher and higher. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I agree with you. MR. MIHALIC: Because obviously a person with a 5,000- square-foot house is going to have more service needs than a person with a 1200-square-foot house. Next one. Oh, okay. This is done in other communities, so we aren't the only one talking about this. In Aspen, Telluride, and Vail, Colorado, you see they have adopted these, and they had it in place for 20 years. And in Aspen it's produced over 1600 affordable units, so it can be a substantial revenue producer that Page 87 May 15, 2001 can produce real affordable housing. The fees in Aspen are substantial enough to provide the creation of one new affordable housing unit for every 4,000 feet of new commercial development. Obviously that's a big fee. That's a big number, and so you need to understand that and think about it. Next one, Cormac. And expanded density bonus: We said that you currently -- you only provide up to eight units an acre in the urban area. Developers currently get comparable density by doing other things. And so who's going to build affordable housing when they can do other stuff and get similar densities? And that's the problem that you have. We need to have affordable housing density bonus expanded to all areas of the county. That's crucial if this is going to work in the long term. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And that last point is a very important one, I think. MR. MIHALIC: We think eliminate all other density bonuses for other reasons, scale them back or you're not going to have affordable housing produced. And they should be able to build affordable housing by some type of density bonus by right, whatever you decide that should appropriately be. Next one. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm curious how the rest -- rest I'm in agreement. Well, we know two of the board feels about that last statement. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I am. Okay. of us are. MR. MIHALIC: Really -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm three. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, that was three. Whew. MR. MIHALIC: We have --we have an example here, and we're certainly not trying to pick on any particular development or say this is unusual in the way the development process works. But here's a 50-acre parcel just noise -- just north -- just south of Page 88 May 15, 2001 the Carillon shopping center, a 50-acre parcel that would be perfect for affordable housing right in the middle of -- of a retail shopping center unit. This was agriculture land, had a base density of 3 units an acre. This development ended up with 6 units an acre, and they really could have gotten 9 if they would have pushed for it under the present zoning allowances that you have. So instead of having affordable housing, as you can see on the side, single- family homes from the four hundreds. You know what that means? Four ninety-nine and up. This is an example of why affordable housing isn't being produced. CHAIRMAN CARTER: You know, as long as I'm assured when I have a higher density bonus coming in, that's the time to push whoever is going to do it to make sure I'm going to get a unit that says it's going to be less than 400,000; I don't want to give 12 units or 16 units and the guy says from 385,000. No thank you very much; it's going to have to be a substantial reduction. MR. MIHALIC: The standards have to be in there. And, again, you know, we've had some people say, "Well, I'm going to include work-force housing in my development." well, I'm not sure what that means. You know we have to have some standards and some dollar amounts and how long a period of time in there to be sure we know what that means. And we think there may be a reason to add some density bonus but then require them to include lower end housing. A developer isn't going to build a $140,000 house when he can build and sell a $400,000 house. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just before you leave that slide, the eligibility for the additional three units because of being in an activity center is a perfect example of a density bonus that ought to be available for work-force housing. Page 89 May 15, 2001 MR. MIHALIC: Only. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Only. Only. And the vehicular interconnect, we think that hasn't worked anyway, but -- but that eligibility for being in an activity center and the idea is you're right there next to shopping. It's not the best possible location for a home. But to get those bonuses, we ought to make it affordable housing. MR. MIHALIC: Well, you know, Commissioner, this developer thought it would be good enough to get 400,000 and up for their houses, so it can't be too bad a location. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Right. And he's not going to have any problem selling them. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Let me ask a quick question of Marlo. We could -- I mean, I grew up in areas where we built developments that had houses that started, let's say, at 25,000 and then maybe went to 50,000. You had a spread of houses within a development. So it seems to me that you got a good mix that were, if you want to call it, lower-income housing in there, but it was mixed through the development, and no one ever objected. If you wanted a little more expensive house, fine, because the guy next to you had a lower price. So what? You know, everything is relevant in terms that the -- as the values went up, everything went up. That's doable. MR. VALLE: That's doable, but I think your point of not just the product appearance is important, Commissioner Carter, but I think that folks, when they do put together some form of inclusionary housing, needs to have some type of a deed restriction setting to where we can -- where the association can put some teeth into making sure that the homes maintain themselves at a certain level, and we don't have a situation that falls into a rental situation like we see in Golden Gate City. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. And I would look to Sam Durso Page 90 May 15, 2001 and the work that he's done with Habitat for some standards. You know I want it well defined so that we can minimize any future problems so you don't have a deterioration in the community. MR. VALLE: Exactly. MR. MIHALIC: And I don't want to make -- make it look like this developer got special breaks, because he didn't. CHAIRMAN CARTER: No. MR. MIHALIC: This is typical of what happens. CHAIRMAN CARTER: He played by the rules. MR. MIHALIC: Absolutely. Next slide, please. We're talking about expanded density bonus program. And, again, we've shown you some cities where this works. We're not talking about anything that isn't done somewhere else. These communities give density bonus by right, depending on the affordability of their project. It allows the freedom to develop near housing, near employment centers like we showed you in the last slide, and it removes the speculation that a request for an affordable housing density bonus may not be approved by the board. All those things are crucial to the developer. Next slide. We now move to inclusionary zoning where either the developer includes affordable housing in his development or pays a fee to not include it in his development. This has not worked very well in DRIs when it's been monitored at the state level. We will have to do a better job at the local level if we expect it to work. And that means what is included, how long will it be for and what price level will it be at. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The fact that the DRIs where this is required already, nobody builds inclusionary. Everybody makes the payment in lieu of. MR. MIHALIC: That's right. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Then the question becomes Page 91 May 15, 2001 where the heck does that money go? It sure doesn't come back to me. We've got a heck of a lot of DRIs in this community not to have any of that money that I can see coming back into the community. MR. MIHALIC: Well, what we're going to show you, a little case example. But here's the important thresholds. You've got to have a threshold number -- marker that -- you know, that triggers this, whatever it happens to be. You've got to have a requirement that the affordable units are compatible in quality to the market rate units so even if they are smaller they will blend into the community. The incentives to assist the developer such as density bonus, impact fee relief or the home buyer assistance must be provided, as well as just giving them the inclusionary zoning or making them take it. And a provision for payment in lieu we think is important. Next slide, Cormac. We've done a little case study. And we say if you had a hundred-unit residential development without any inclusionary zoning and the sales price is a little bit under $250,000, the National Association of Home Builders says that the average profit for the home builder is 9.2 percent. So on this project he's going to make $2.2 million profit for a hundred houses. If you gave him a density bonus, a hundred-unit development with a 15-percent inclusionary zoning requirement and a 20- percent affordable housing density bonus, he will be able to build 20 additional units, 102 market units, 18 affordable units at $140,000 a unit for a total of $2,549,000 profit. So here the developer comes out with an extra of $277,000 in additional profit on the 18 affordable house -- affordably heist -- priced homes and the 2 market homes that he additionally was allowed to do. We think this is workable in the market. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And that's why you said our -- it's -- our biggest tool is density. Page 92 May 15, 2001 MR. MIHALIC: Right. And it is a tool. It needs to be individually done and negotiated. There are no cookie cutters that fit everybody. Next slide, Cormac. And, again, where does this work? We are on the end of the limb here. We aren't inventing anything new. It's used in other places around the country. And you'll see in Montgomery County it's produced 10,000 affordable units since 1975. They require anywhere from 10 to 30 percent of all new developments be affordable or accept payment in lieu for the affordability. And, again, this is done in various different sections of the county and avoids concentration of lower-priced units as they're integrated into upper-priced developments. Next slide. We also need some special consideration. I talked earlier about my perspective of what happened with the governor and the cabinet's order. With a little bit of tweaking, I think it may have come out better, at least from my point of view. But other places really do give consideration to affordable housing. We know the state is really backing off of that. I mean, affordable housing has never had the same impact as roads or drainage or the other issues, but we think as a quality-of-life issue the commissioners have to consider it and have to give it local control and local premiere hierarchy, high assistance, because we think that's necessary. Cormac. And, again, this is done in other areas around the country. They give special exemptions for work-force house in Arvada, Colorado; Cary, North Carolina. This has the effect of increasing the proportion of affordable housing staff without expending public money. And it serves as a countermeasure to the growth management regulations that naturally drive up the costs. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, what kind of special consideration? What do they do? MR. MIHALIC: Well, density is part of it. The county is Page 93 May 15, 2001 assisting with infrastructure like the roads. Where you normally make a developer put in the roads, the county can assist with the roads. The county can possibly have a way to waive some of the costs. We talked earlier about a mitigation bank that might be available for some of those mitigation costs. The water management district costs can get out of line. Those things would be good, the drainage costs. There's lots of things that if a community decides they want to help out, they can help out with. We have a situation where house prices are so high, we throw it all on the developer's back. And even the affordable housing developers have to build the roads and have to get the drainage and have to do all those things which -- which -- which makes it unprofitable sometimes for them to do what you want them to do. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So the way the county commission could have an effect here would be through growth management plan amendments that -- that say under certain criteria, we'll build the roads, for example. MR. MIHALIC: For example. But, again, assist where we can. I mean, obviously road construction is a cost, an actual cost, and I'm trying to keep it to these soft costs; drainage, fill. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Mitigation. MR. MIHALIC: Hitting on some of the development requirements. Density is the biggest one. And, Commissioner, density is it. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And -- and because of what land is available, too, I mean, it's -- judging by the Habitat's issues lately with trying to get -- they had to pay a tremendous amount of money for mitigation for water management impacts, and I wonder, does the county own any land? I mean, is there some way that the county could partner in that kind of a way in the Page 94 May 15, 2001 future? Do we have land that they could have used to count -- I mean, I don't know. Can they count Clam Pass? Just a thought. MR. MIHALIC: Unless you're going to let them build on Clam Pass. We've looked at the list of county-owned land, and most of it is little strips of right .of-way here and there. Most of it is unbuildable. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: That -- that's what I mean is since it's unbuildable and useless anyway, couldn't we have donated it to Habitat to count toward their mitigation lands? MR. MIHALIC: Oh. Possibly. I don't know about that. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Because they spend a fortune on mitigation. MR. MIHALIC: I don't know about that. MR. OLLIFF: No. So do we. MR. DURSO: The county does too. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah, I know. Okay. MR. MIHALIC: Next slide, Cormac. Again, what -- what we are requesting of the BCC is prepare a linkage fee program to be levied on future development of commercial and noncommercial residential development at -- to be collected -- to be collected at the building permit time. We have too many units out there, as Commissioner Coletta said, that are already permitted -- are already developed and permitted but haven't pulled a building permit yet. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I ask another thought that maybe relates to some of this? But as we do -- as -- as hopefully we're going to be looking at the PUD sunsets and try to shorten that period of time to maybe three years and make the review of sunsetted PUDs more meaningful, that would be a place where we could target. If you implement some of these programs, then you get to keep -- use some of the density you already have, etc., and if you don't, we're going to downzone you. Page 95 May 15, 2001 MR. MIHALIC: I would not come back to 3 units an acre and upzone for affordable housing. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So that's something that will be on the list somewhere as we look at -- all these issues. And the only thing that scares me about this workshop is we're getting a lot of ideas. I want to be sure that they come back to us with real opportunities to adopt policy. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Here's the guy we hold accountable for that. MR. MIHALIC: Well, like your Immokalee initiative, these are obvious -- obviously multiple departmental concepts -- CHAIRMAN CARTER: Right. MR. MIHALIC.' -- that, you know, we can't control. And other departments are going to have to help flesh out these ideas and make them workable. MR. OLLIFF: And a lot of this is what I see us passing along to Commissioner Fiala's committee to bring back the actual documents working with us for the board to consider approval of. And a lot of this is going to be a complete package of things that have to work together. But when we started this, the reason I wanted to have a separate workshop on this was because I think the county commission has to be committed, and we haven't been. I will be very honest with you. As a county we have not been committed in getting involved and doing the things that county government has in its toolbox that are available to us to actually make a difference. I'm telling you, I think there are a number of things that you have seen on this board that if you are willing to do these things you can make a difference in the affordable housing inventory that's available here in Collier County. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And who is Commissioner Fiala's staff liaison, because obviously she's not going to be the one that Page 96 May 15, 2001 remembers every suggestion we've made here today? She needs to have somebody whose ]ob it is to keep this list in front of her and in front of her committee. And -- and John Dunnuck needs to know that when he brings back the PUD sunsetting, it needs to have in there an affordable housing issue. MR. OLLIFF: We have a -- we have a follow-up list from all of these workshops that we're providing you. And a number of these things will be staff-related things that will come back. A number of them are bigger policies issues that will go to the board, but we'll have a full menu of the things that are follow -up items from this workshop. MR. DURSO: Can I ask a quick question? I know it's getting late. At what point should I go out and find a two- or three- hundred-acre piece of land that's in the fringe area and risk Habitat's money with a deposit on it with the -- with the hope that the commissioners will do what I ask and then I go and share that land with Mario? We both build houses there. Do you know? MR. GIBLIN: And it must be by a supermajority. MR. DURSO: I need four votes for that. At what point do I do that? Is that an unfair question to ask? MR. OLLIFF: No. It's not. It's a very fair question to ask. MR. DURSO: Should I be out there looking for land? I -- I -- you know, I would love to go out and do that. And I'd risk some Habitat money. But I -- you know, obviously it's tough for us to risk money on something like that. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: My advice would be after the June 13th workshop when we talk about fringe, you know, if you hear the board saying, "You know, we're willing to give some cjustering opportunities and density for affordable work-force housing but not for golf courses.". MR. OLLIFF: And -- and I'm a little more conservative than that. And I would tell you when the comp. Plan amendment that Page 97 May 15, 2001 actually get adopted that result from the rural fringe decisions that the board's going to make, that's the time when you know. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You don't know before then. MR. DURSO: Which is about a year from now. MR. OLLIFF: Right. MR. DURSO'- We'll keep looking. MR. MIHALIC: Commissioners, No. 2 is expand the affordable housing densities program -- bonus program, as we talked about, to all areas of the county and reduce bonuses for other uses. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: The second half is the most important piece of that, in my judgment. MR. MIHALIC: Prepare some type of inclusionary zoning program with payment in lieu; opt out land development ordinance; and, lastly, give special consideration for exemptions for work-force housing in growth management decisions. We think that will go a long way for providing more affordable housing, but you've got to remember we're creating 4,000 jobs a year. That's a huge load. CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Any objections on the board of going with these recommendations? Well, I would say that's sufficient direction to say that we want to pursue that along with the other discussions here this morning. I think it's an excellent presentation. We do need -- and we certainly don't discount in any way, shape, or form -- public input on this. And we need to go to that before we put a wrap. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: One more. One more. MS. GOLDEN: Actually, Commissioner Carter, Susan Golden with the City of Naples. I would -- I would personally like to defer to the speakers because I appreciate your patience. After having been involved in this issue for over 11 or 12 years, this is one of the most exciting workshops that I have sat through in a long Page 98 May 15, 2001 time. So I thank you personally for taking the time to seriously look at this issue and realize that it is a community-wide concern. I think we have some business leaders here to address it, as well as some other folks from the community. And I think it would be appropriate to hear from them at this point. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I'd like you to stay at the table so that if you have other comments, I really appreciate you -- MS. GOLDEN: Thank you. CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- being here and sitting through the workshop this morning and being an active participant and helping us through this. COMMISSIONER FIALA: And, Susan, your consequences are very -- are very enlightening. I think a lot of people don't realize what consequences are involved. MS. GOLDEN: I don't want to be Chicken Little and tell everyone the sky is falling, because I think as Greg has clearly outlined, there are a lot of solutions out there. And what I would highly recommend is that the board continue to take a look at what's working in other communities -- we don't need to reinvent the wheel -- but use some of those things that have been successful in other resort and tourist-related areas. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. May we go to public speakers. MR. MIHALIC: The first speaker is Mr. Paul Starzyk, and Mr. Robert Jenkins is on -- . MR. OLLIFF: I'm going to use that chair if I can. MR. STARZYK: Thank you very much for this opportunity. It has been enlightening for me, both -- I'm representing both a group of adults who are developmentally disabled, and also I am an employer. The very sad thing was as an employer I found out that just about all of my staff is below the very Iow income in -- in the private not-for-profit corporation serving the Page 99 May 15, 2001 developmentally disabled adults. On top of that, most of the agencies that support my agency, their employees are also well below the very Iow-income level. So these are not just numbers out there. These are people. And they are people that are -- do not -- can't raise our rates just because we can't get housing. On top of that, a point of -- commuters coming down from other areas to help our folks, it's not just time anymore. Anybody stopped at the gas pump lately? So we lose -- we don't get anybody from this -- from the outskirts in -- in the Lee County area. We have one individual who was willing to do that only because her husband works down here around the corner from me. Our -- the population we serve, the developmentally disabled, with the exception of one individual, which you may hear from in a few minutes, can't even take advantage of Greg's programs -- · COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Why? MR. STARZYK: -- because they're maxed out by social security limits of how much they can earn of $750 per month. So, you know, this is more of a -- this is more of a crisis to -- to a lot of people than even maybe this board has addressed. And we have a number of parents who've come. They may not all be speaking, but there is concern, too, because their adult children may not have a place in this area. They're being driven out, either because we won't be able to get staff to support them or certainly homes. You know, again, most of the staff that I have, most of the staff of the agencies, the government agencies that support me, are in the below very Iow-income levels. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What's your agency, Harold? What company? MR. STARZYK: Sunrise Community of Collier County, used to be Tech. Page 100 May 15, 2001 COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Uh-huh. MR. STARZYK: So anything you can do to not just -- you know, a hundred or two hundred people. We're talking probably thousands of people who need housing, be it apartments, as was mentioned earlier, be it Habitat, something. But, you know, $700 per month is -- for rent for a home is just totally out of reach for these people. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If I may, for about 12 years I worked in Immokalee with the mentally challenged, and I have some unique ideas. I'd like you to set up an appointment with me. I might have some ideas that might be of some help to you. MR. STARZYK: I'd appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you. MR. MIHALIC: Mr. Jenkins, and then I call Mr. Borden. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You can come sit by me. MR. JENKINS: Hi. I'm Robert Jenkins, concerned citizen. About the affordable housing, we have a real severe lack of it. People like Susan, myself, and Mario and everybody's trying to work to make it a much better place, but until we get, like Commissioner Mac'Kie said, the wage, the average wage, not the average salary, but the average wager earner here in Collier County, if you walked down the steps right now and look in human resources, a plumber being hired by the county is being paid $22,000 a year. Now, if you take that and you double it and you have two people doing it, that's $44,000 a year which is below the $52,000 Iow-income status that we have here in Collier County. And I pulled out some things at work about houses here in the City of Naples, in your -- in your area. There is a house, a one-bedroom house, one bath, built in 1954. It's on Third Avenue North, and it's selling for $1,495,000. Now, that -- that's nuts. Page 101 May 15, 2001 And then I take the thing that I got from the state, as to Florida Housing and Finance Corporation, and it goes on to talk about it. And it says for housing, the housing and urban development designated target area of limits in Collier County for a family -- it doesn't matter what size -- is $70,920. You see, you turn it over to this one, and you see Collier County, the income, $59,000 and $67,000, but you can only use it on 106 dollar -- $106,000 house. So that eliminates a lot of people from the process, which we need to change that. We need to be able to use a higher -- the average house in Collier County is going for $247,000 I believe it is. So that eliminates a great many people from the programs that are available because of the wage, the annual income versus the actual wage that the people in Collier County make. So if there's anything that we can do about that, if there's anything that we can lead into that that would help a great many people out, the SHIP program is a great idea and, like you said, the very Iow-income people, but there's people right here in the county. I had an employee from the county, works for road and bridges, came in. He made 17,000 a year and his wife made 15,000 a year, and they couldn't qualify for $114,000 home. So that's, even -- even with SHIP, even with half, people are not being able to qualify because of the way the -- the -- it's set up. It's a vicious cycle. It's needs to be corrected. And whatever needs to be done, I'll be happy to volunteer my time to help. MR. ELLIS: And maybe Greg can mention some things. There is actually a way that that formula's done that you can appeal to the state. We're doing that process now. MR. MIHALIC: We're in that process now. I'm not sure whether it will be successful, but we hope to raise both the limits for the existing houses and the new construction to $130,000. Go up to that level. We're not sure we can do that. We're trying. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Who -- who makes that decision Page 102 May 15, 2001 at the state level? MR. MIHALIC: The Florida Housing Finance Corporation. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And who appoints the head of the Florida Housing Finance Corporation? MR. MIHALIC: The governor. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So if we wanted to have an influence, we would all e-mail the governor's office and ask him to make that -- to -- to support that change. MR. MIHALIC: We will let the board know when we put forward that administrative decision. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, perhaps one that might even carry more weight is to do a resolution by the Board of County Commissioners, send it to the governor, and let him know how serious we are about this. I think he -- if he gets as much -- he gets more e-mail than we all do, I don't think he reads all that stuff anymore. Great idea, but it's tough to do. So I would recommend something more powerful directly to him with a follow-up letter, and I know his executive assistant very well that I'm sure will get his attention. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, with your position on the board for FAC, that will help us a lot. And then maybe we could even contact Burt and Dudley and Carol Green and Joe Spratt and -- and see if they couldn't also take up our cause. Dudley -- it looks like he's been working pretty closely with the governor anyway. He might just help us out there. MR. VALLE: Just give you an aside of what -- what's happened in the private sector, even with FHA, in 1996 FHA single-family housing limit was a hundred and twenty-nine six fifty. Today it's $171,000 home qualifies for the FHA program. So that's where the -- the housing and urb -- or HUD has taken a look at it from a -- from a federal standpoint and looked at the impact of what the average cost of a single-family home has Page 103 May 15, 2001 been in Collier County and created those -- those adjustments for that particular program, and that's what we need to have done at this same level. MR. MIHALIC: Yeah. The reason our numbers are Iow is we fall into the all-others category because of the size of our population. And so we don't get our own determination, and that's the problem. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So could someone put a resolution on the next board agenda a week from today so we could support that by resolution and it would give us a little more publicity and remind to us make all our calls? MR. JENKINS: Okay. Like you said about the thing, the lady was at the last meeting when she said that having this house changed her life. And what's nice about that is people like that like myself, when you have a home, you set roots into a community. You're not going to be so mobile about -- you're going to live there, and you're going to want your neighborhood to be good. You're going to take back your neighborhood. You're going to be able to -- to build a community, a much better, a much stronger community by doing that. So it's -- it's not going to be hurt. COMMISSIONER FIALA.' Occupied homes always seem to look better, too, don't they? People take pride. MR. JENKINS: And we have a thing that -- I used to call a nimbus "Not in my backyard. You know, I'm all for affordable housing, but you're not going to put it in my neighborhood." and we -- we got to get past that. We've got to get to a point where everybody is inclusive so -- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Robert, I want to commend you for your involvement as a citizen coming forward. You can see how your -- your intervention here is making a difference. MR. JENKINS: I hope so. Page 104 May 15, 2001 COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I hope more people follow your example. MR. JENKINS: Well, see, the reason I can do that is because I see people like yourselves and everybody here that there is a concern here. It's not like it used to be where people said, "You know, well, there's nothing you can do for me, so there's nothing I can do for you." but I see you guys really having to pour your hearts into the ]ob. And I really would like to commend the commission -- the new commission for doing that so... CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, Robert. And we appreciate all your inputs and time. MR. MIHALIC: Dave Borden with Barbara Cacchione on deck. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I just have to say while -- while they're coming up, I now know that I live under a -- in an unaverage home because it's only worth 152,000, and my kids are on the very Iow-income scale, and my car is 6 years old. Apparently I -- I'm falling into the categories where I need to be subsidized here. CHAIRMAN CARTER: some federal assistance. commissioner -- Right. We'll see if we can't get you Remember, you're overpaid as a COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right. CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- and all you have to do is go out there COMMISSIONER FIALA.' Oh, yeah, right. MR. BORDEN: Hi. Dave Borden. I've got a couple hats too. I'm with the Collier County Housing Authority working with Farm Workers' Village for a couple of terms. I'm no longer in that at the moment, but I certainly wanted to bring up the Farmers' Home Administration has been providing assistance for farm worker housing for quite some time in Immokalee. And so there Page 105 May 15, 2001 are programs for the agricultural problems that are in Immokalee. Granted, over time there's been additional homes that have been created. It does take time to get the federal funds implemented. Greg knows the difficulties that he goes through with HUD, and Farmers' Home is very similar to that process. It does take time. They do go on. Unfortunately, it's not enough, fast enough. And we keep moving in that direction. A couple other comments. Relative to linkage fees, I think there's -- you know, we're jumping in that direction fairly quickly, and there needs to be a lot of discussion about how those linkages are created, because it could, again -- the law of unintended consequences can begin to prevail where you have conditions where, just looking at square footage, for instance, warehousing space doesn't demand very much job implementation, whereas a fast-food restaurant would, high- wage job types of uses, high-end office space. Office space that rents for $30 a square foot is not going to generate a lot of Iow- end jobs. Those are the attorneys and -- and those types of jobs. So we've just got to be careful about how those impacts are assessed and offer opportunities for other alternatives. One other item I thought was kind of interesting, in listening to the Habitat for Humanity proposal, the homes there are a thousand fifty square fee for a family of four. Collier County has a minimum square footage home size of 750 square feet. That's not allowing for a lot of difference when you downsize to a single parent with a single child. There may be just in the fact that the home is that large an issue relative to the affordability of those units, so there should be some single -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A thousand is too big? MR. BORDEN: No, the point is 750 may be too big for a single-family parent with a single child. And those costs are there, whether or not the rest of the house is occupied. Where is Page t06 May 15, 2001 that other 750 square feet? MR. DURSO: Habitat Homes -- right now the need is so great in this county, we have built in the last five years maybe two houses for families smaller than four people. There's just unbelievable need in this county. We have -- we have 700 applications a year. And of those, 695 come with families that are 4 and larger, 4 or 5, 6, 7 people. So there is no mark -- MR. BORDEN: I think that's my point exactly, is that that -- that market may be getting served. MR. DURSO: It's not getting served. Fifty houses is -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What Sam said is 50 houses with 700-plus applications means that there is a giant need not being served. MR. BORDEN: Point taken. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Uh-huh. MR. BORDEN: One other point: Transitory affordable housing areas have occurred since I've been here for 20 years. Affordable housing areas were downtown, and they're today selling for a million bucks. Naples Park was an affordable housing site when we were doing some studies related to the Grey Oaks project. That's no longer an affordable housing location. So this is a process. This is not a solution. It's not a crisis event. It's a process that has to be established as something that continues over time. I applaud the -- the commission's comments relative to being positive with affordable issues today. There have been problems in the past, as have been brought up. We're trying to get these things addressed. Thanks. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Can I ask you a question before you go? I know you're with Barron Collier Companies. Do they have ag operations in Immokalee? MR. BORDEN: Yes. Page 107 May 15, 2001 COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And -- and if we are successful in shutting down some of the substandard housing in Immokalee that exists so that for the next season there will have to be some housing provided, I wouldn't ask you to tell me what Barron Collier Company's solution to that problem is going to be, but I just want to communicate clearly heads up, you know, expect to have less trashy housing available for migrant farm workers if we're successful, and I think we're going to be, so that the ag industry can try to provide some kind of housing for the migrant workers who we expect to see coming back. MR. BORDEN: Hopefully we're ahead of the curve. Two issues have occurred. Over time with the Collier County Housing Authority we've donated some land and we've provided it at below market rate in order to move additional housing units into that market. At the same time we've recognized that there is a drying out that's occurring of the labor market in Immokalee, and we're involved with mechanical picking in our groves now, for instance, to reduce the labor demand as opposed to providing the supply housing. Hopefully between those two -- two sides we're trying to stay ahead of the curve. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Is there any analysis or is there analysis done in the ag business of, since you're going to mechanical pickers, for example, the number of workers you expect to generate per the -- the -- I don't know -- square mile of fields you have or something like that ? MR. BORDEN: There may be some statistics, but that's not my field. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh. I -- I would just love to know that, if there is somebody in your company who could share that information. MR. BORDEN: We'll see if we can find that out. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd appreciate that. Page 108 May 15, 2001 MR. BORDEN: Thank you. MR. MIHALIC: Barb Cacchione; after that, Jean Gasroda. MS. CACCHIONE: Thank you. It feels a little like dej -- deja vu in talking about some of these issues. I know these are proposals that your planning staff has also brought to you over the last 20 years. There's a couple things I wanted to remark on about Immokalee. I think you've heard some things this morning about the extent of the problem. In '94 your comprehensive planning staff did a study which identified 1200 units in need of demolition and repair. That doesn't count any additional for population growth. And we have not had market rate construction in Immokalee, and that has been something that has been a continual problem. The cost of land is very high. We've formed a nonprofit. We're going to be doing single-family homeownership housing. As we're looking for land, we're finding the lots 50 foot wide by 75-foot lots cost between fifteen and twenty thousand dollars. Part of that's due to land availability. In the urban area -- there's about 17,000 acres in the urban area. Of 8,000 of that -- 8500 of that is owned by three large property owners. About 3500 is already developed. So you have a very small amount of acreage that you're working with that you have the ability to influence. So we really need to do repair, rehabilitation. There is no area in the county that I'm aware of that has this significant problem with its housing stock to the extent that it exists in Immokalee. And when you look at the income and you looked at the -- the workers and the services they're involved in, you found the very lowest of that being agriculture which is about 45 percent of our population in Immokalee is involved in agriculture. So when you're talking about an $80,000 house at 32,000 in income, there's a very large portion of that community that can't even Page t09 May 15, 2001 achieve that. What can we do? We're being very proactive. The Empowerment Alliance is working very hard with our partnerships and working together with them, which I think is the big key. That is why we will be successful. I think that there are a couple of issues with your comprehensive plan and your zoning in that area that need to really be revised. The density in Immokalee is, in fact, lower than your urban area. It's 12 units per acre max. Most of the area is zoned at 4 units per acre. Most of your trailer parks there -- are there not legally. As we go through this process of upgrading them, what we want to insure that it isn't just a little bit of upgrade to keep the units but that it is a continuous improvement for that community. For your investment in your industrial parks in that area to really pan out, they're going to need to address this housing issue in a stronger way than we have. One of the things I think we're going to need to do, because when you say it should be addressed to the very Iow income, you'll hear the middle income saying, "Well, we need a piece of that, too," is increasing your pie. You're now getting $4 million between CDBG and SHIP every year. There are other areas that I think you can look at through a grant writer that you have not really taken advantage of that I think can expand the pie, and I think that's what we really need to concentrate on. CRA activities have been very limited through the banks in this area, and part of that is they haven't had the product. If we're able to present them with a product, I think we will be much more successful in bringing that together. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I don't understand what you just -- CRA has been limited. MS. CACCHIONE: The banks have certain commitments, financial commitments, they have to make in terms of lending, Page 110 May 15, 2001 especially banks that are higher than $250 million in assets, and those banks have certain -- three areas they have to make sure they're making investments in. And I think if we coordinate with the banks, there may be a way -- you know, if they're getting mortgages out of it, they're also getting a huge benefit out of it, that we may be able to do some of the down payment and closing cost assistance through the CRA commitments rather than using our SHIP funds. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner Coletta has a question for you. COMMISSIONER COL. ETTA: It's a little bit of a statement. You mentioned about the grant writing. I think it's at four o'clock today I have a meeting with four different departments that have grant writers, the sheriff's department, the school. We're going to be sitting down and coming up with some plans to pass on to the rest of the commission to see if we can get a grant writing department in place. That's number 1. Number 2, you're absolutely correct about Immokalee and what's out there as far as zoning being totally deficient and what it should be. And I -- I was going to wait a little while, but I'm going to lay it on you now. As soon as the master plan for Golden Gate is reaching its conclusion, I want to bring up the one for Immokalee, and I'd like to see a long-range one that goes 20 years about including a growth going towards Lehigh and including everything from a city center right on through. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Wait till -- you know, you're going to have that opportunity sooner probably even than Golden Gate because of the governor's order on the rural lands assessment. You know, we're going to have to make those kind of choices within that three-year window, and it's about a year and a half before closing. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, we -- the master plan for Page 111 May 15, 2001 Golden Gate, I believe, is one year before it reaches conclusion. And we can start to fire that up about nine months from now when we're pulling all the particulars together. We don't have an overlap because we just don't want to overburden staff any more than we already have with the master plan for Golden Gate. So we can pick up right from that. I'll be -- just have -- give me a couple of days to recover, get right in the middle of that. We're going to build a model city that everybody's going to be proud of. MS. CACCHIONE: I guess I have just a couple more points. And I appreciate your patience. In terms of financial assistance, I think what we're going to have to do is really layer the levels of assistance. We're going to need down payment and closing costs. We're going to need waivers of impact fees; we're going to need zoning -- zoning is a big impediment for private nonprofits trying -- I mean public nonprofits trying to go ahead and -- and do it. They just don't have the capability to do it. All of those things and a subsidy which helps write down the cost of the land. You need to layer all of those in the Immokalee community in order to be able to get homes. And I'm pretty much addressing my remarks to that community. I also think that you need a written policy on community outreach. A lot of it is based on who's having the public meeting, how good the outreach is. And I really think that having a written policy would be very good and having it -- you know, you contact this person to do this, and I would be happy to work with anybody that wants to develop that. And, finally, I guess, is your resources. I would just tell you that I think probably with the amount of things that I just hear this morning, your staff resources are not there to do all of these things. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Absolutely. MS. CACCHIONE: And I --you know, I can just comment on Page 112 May 15, 2001 that from a couple perspectives. And I -- I would really encourage you to kind of look at that as you go through budgeting for next year because it is -- it -- you know, two code enforcement officers in Immokalee is a lot. It's a heck -- it's four times what we ever had before, and we're happy as can be about it. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Don't forget the planner. MS. CACCHIONE: And the planner. But when you look at the ]ob that has to be done, it's a huge ]ob. COMMISSIONER COLETTA'- People forget that Immokalee is now the population of Naples. MS. CACCHIONE: Yeah. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: They keep forgetting this when they're making comparisons. And here they're running the community with the fire department -- consists of about four firemen and a bunch of volunteers compared to Naples which has many different stations and how many firemen? MS. CACCHIONE: And it's -- also it's more serious fires with injury. GOMMISSIONER GOLETTA: Everything there in comparison, when you want to compare one community to the other as far as numbers go, there is no comparison. It's a miracle that the thing even works at all. MS. GACGHIONE: And I guess in conclusion, I would -- if I were to hit the main points, it would be amendments to your comprehensive plan and zoning with regard to the Immokalee area, layering of financial subsidies and being able to broaden your pie, and doing your community assistance outreach. Thank yOU, CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. MR. MIHALIC.' Jean Gasroda. MS. GASRODA: Gasroda. Next speaker, please. Page 113 May 15, 2001 MR. MIHALIC: Gasroda. And on -- on deck, Chris Chesser. CHAIRMAN CARTER: And how many after that? MR. MIHALIC: After that, at the present time, we have two more. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. MS. GASRODA: I'll try and make this short and sweet as possible. My name is Jean Gasroda. I'm president of an organization here in Naples or in Collier County called FODD. Those are Friends of the Developmental Disabled. One of the things that we do is we -- we have a -- a very large membership. We do provide social activities. We are also advocates for the developmentally disabled. Saying that, then, I would like to introduce my son, Bruce. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Hi, Bruce. Thanks for coming. MR. GASRODA: Glad to be here. MS. GASRODA: And Bruce just purchased -- he and his former roommate are the first two developmentally disabled people who purchased homes with SHIP funds in Collier County. Okay? (Applause.) MS. GASRODA: And, Bruce, how do you like your home? MR. GASRODA: Well, I love it. MS. GASRODA: It's in a good location, places I can go. I'm just real happy. MS. GASRODA: And what else? Anything else? MR. GASRODA'. Yeah. I want the city buses to keep on running. (Applause.) MS. GASRODA.' I -- I did a little coaching there. So Bruce was allotted $5,000, and he -- we were very fortunate to find a place for $33,000 over in Golden Gate, and it's a nice place. Okay. It's very small. It's an efficiency. He has it -- but he's part Page114 May 15, 2001 of a condo unit and very -- very welcomed there. Bruce's income is probably at the high end of what the developmentally disabled make here in Collier County, okay? And the way I have it figured, his highest amount this year that he could possibly get would be $18,852. And he is at the high end of what most of our developmentally individuals make in this county. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Huh. MS. GASRODA: Another point I'd like to make is that when we come to Florida to live and we have a developmentally disabled person in our midst, that person comes with us. That person comes with us. Maybe our other children will stay where -- you know, where they're married and with their lobs and everything. And I would suppose that we have a higher percentage of the developmentally disabled in Florida than in many other areas. Okay. That's just a thought, but it's true. We don't leave those people behind. I have letters here. And we also have a number of members of our organization, parents, who are interested in this very same thing. I have letters from people who could not be here. I have - - I have everything. I have brochures on what we do, my card, and letters. Okay? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you. MS. GASRODA: One of the things that I would like to see is increase SHIP funds available to the developmentally disabled here in Collier County. $5,000 was great working with Bruce because he got his place so cheaply. But no one even believed I was able to buy a place of that -- you know and -- and Marcy Krumbine who's back here was ecstatic when I was able to find the -- and we fixed it up. It's a really darling place. It's his own home. Everything is new, and he's very proud of homeownership. Other counties in Florida have much more money available Page 115 May 15, 2001 to the disabled using SHIP funds than -- than they do here in Collier County. Sarasota County would be one that I would point to, I want to thank the Collier County Loan Consortium and Marcy Krumbine who worked so hard with us to get Mr. AIIovicks (phonetic) and Mr. Ervin's condos ready to go. I would be so happy if I could help any of you, if there's anything I could do to further this. And on behalf of the -- the mentally handicapped, I have decided that I will run for president for two more years. And during that time I am going to be devoting myself to trying to place these people in -- in homes of their own. They deserve it. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Question: When the -- when we get this SHIP money policy, would you put -- put for the board's policy decision whether we should have a category of additional benefit for developmentally disabled as opposed to merely on the income, because that might be -- I mean, if other counties are spending their money that way, that should be an option, at least, for the county commission to make that choice. MR. MIHALIC: We have that option in our new program that we've just submitted now, so we have revised it a little bit so... COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And how did it change? MR. MIHALIC: It changed by allowing a special-needs persons, which is developmentally disabled, to dip into more than one program so they can essentially get some handicapped modifications; they can get some assistance that they're going with a nonprofit into it and get more assistance with down payment and closing costs so they can dip into more than one of the programs. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So right now we may -- we're above the 5,000. MR. MIHALIC'- Whether we add a new housing assistance plan for development -- Page 116 May 15, 2001 MR. GIBLIN: So if you were to layer all the -- all the current strategies, you'd probably be around $24,000 of assistance per unit that -- MR. MIHALIC: For the developmentally disable. MR. GIBLIN: -- the special needs client can receive. MS. GASRODA: I might add that when Bruce applied for this, he was advised that he could buy a place up to $45,000. Well, we just sat here all morning hearing -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: There aren't any. MS. GASRODA: -- that there aren't any. I was just fortunate to find the one that I did, and it was kind of a miracle, and it's worked out well. Again, these people, they don't have the facilities or the faculties to get out there and earn a lot of money, but they are -- you'll see them all over the county. You'll see them employed in different places. They're wonderful, and it's wonderful to work with them. They just need a break. Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. MS. GASRODA: And thank you again for the city buses. (Applause.} MR. MIHALIC: Christine Chesser and Kathy Herrmann on deck. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: These probably need to get to the court reporter for the record. MS. CHESSER: Hello. Thank you for letting me speak. My name's Chris Chesser, and I work for NCH Healthcare Systems. I've been there 16 years, and I'm the director of the housing. Brian Suttle (phonetic}, our VP of human resources, was here earlier. But he had a prior engagement and had to leave. He did want me to say a few things on behalf of the hospital. NCH right now employs over 3,000 employees. We spend about right now a little over 2 million in housing. These are our Page 117 May 15, 2001 rentals that we rent right now to house our -- our temporary and subsidized -- I don't want to use that term but -- the hundreds of our employees do not live in Collier County because they just can't afford it. These are just regular work-force people that work for you, me, Susan. I mean, this is regular people that try and make a living here. We know the medium income. We know -- most of our people don't make that. Most of the people sitting around this table don't make that. In my position, we receive probably 10 to 15 calls a week just inquiring because they know we have apartments, but they're not available to our regular employees. NCH is looking right now to try and work with other builders or whatever. We're just kind of in the process of trying to provide housing for our regular employees, whether it be rentals or home buying assistance. As a large employer, we might be able to do that. Smaller employers can't do it. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: You need to get with Mario if you haven't after the meeting. MS. CHESSER: We've got us a lot so -- but I've been on the house -- the work-force housing commission for three years now, and it's been a lot of frustration. And, like, this is probably one of the most positive things I've seen, and it's a good feeling. Just as being a parent with two children here, I do get my housing, because I'm on-site property. If I had to go out and rent a place, I wouldn't be here. I was born in Naples. And both my children were, and I've got one that's going to be 18. And he's -- I don't -- well, I don't think he's going to be able to, and he ain't going to live with me; that's for sure so -- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know how it feels. MS. CHESSER: I just -- you know, I -- I applaud you-all. I thank you so much. And, you know, I think we're heading in the right direction. So thank you very much. Page118 May 15, 2001 CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. MR. MIHALIC: Kathy Herrmann with Fred Thomas on deck. MS. HERRMANN: Thank you. I have four different hats to wear today, so I'm going to talk fast. In my hat as a member of the Hunger and Homeless Coalition and the chair of the Continuum of Care, I want to tell you that we did an extensive needs assessment. I talked to you about that when I was here on -- last Tuesday. We interviewed 70 different social service agencies. Then we did 30 different focus groups with homeless people, churches, the NAACP, lots -- got lots of lots of input. And the result of that study said the number-one need in Collier County is guess what? Work force or affordable housing. Duh. It has been a huge frustration, and it is a crisis in the social service arena, and I'm thrilled that you're addressing it. And thank you so much for putting your time into this. The second thing, though, that I mentioned on Tuesday was public transportation. That was the second-greatest need. And I know Bruce because I go to the movies a lot. He works at the movie theater. The move -- the bus system -- I'm so thrilled that we have it. But guess what? It stops at six o'clock. And somebody from Bruce's family has got to pick him up and take him home. I spent a whole day driving the bus -- with the bus system. And if you want to go to Immokalee, 2:30 is it. So if you -- if you live in Immokalee, you want to come to work in Naples, the bus system won't work for you. We've got to expand that. Also the social service agencies have a crisis in that we can't find places to rent that we can afford to operate out of. That's a huge problem. We had a meeting with the United Way a year ago to talk about, perhaps, United Way building a building that we could all rent space out of. It's such a crisis for us. Page 119 May 15, 2001 As the CEO for The Shelter of Abused Women, I want to tell you we have 6,000 victims of domestic violence every year that our program serves here in Collier County. And one of the biggest reasons why victims cannot leave is because they can't afford to leave. There's no place else for them to go. If they've got kids, their alternatives are either go back to the abuser or leave Collier County. Our clients are tellers; they're maids; they're secretaries; they're postal workers; they're retail and grocery clerks; but they're also teachers and nurses. And they can't afford to live here. The shelter also employs 34 employees. All of them, except for me, are Iow income -- are below the median income. Most of them live in Lee County, and that's becoming more and more of a challenge for our agency in that our employees are looking for bigger salaries so that they can afford to come to work. The hassle, they have to put up with being on Route 75 for an hour in that commute. I'm going to lose employees, and then we're not going to have an agency to be able to run this. So it's a problem as an employer as well. Then as the shelter is building a new facility. Many of you know that we're building a 60-bed transitional and emergency shelter. And we need assistance from the county. We're doing it all on the backs of the shelter. We are the only shelter in the State of Florida that isn't funded by the county government, the only one. There are 38 shelters in the State of Florida. Every single one of them gets money from county government, except ours. But we've got impact fees coming up in this new facility, and we need help with deferring or waiving those. The SHIP assistance, the shelter in Clay County -- that's south of Jacksonville - got $350,000 in SHIP funds to build a new shelter. That's another thing. When you're looking at SHIP and expanding your SHIP, also look at what it can do to help Page 120 May 15, 2001 programs that provide housing, transitional housing. And -- and, please, while the developmentally disabled are one, they're only one part of a special needs population. Anybody who collects social security disability would be in need of that kind of special assistance, very, very Iow. I would also ask that wherever you can -- you know, you were talking, Don, before about the federal rules that say you have to use the median income, and the median income, of course, includes all that unearned income that the very wealthy and the very affluent in Collier County have. But wherever the county can to use earned income as a formula for wherever you're legally allowed to do so, I would encourage you to do that. Also, I want to remind you, please, to continue to focus not just on single-family housing but on multifamily units and increasing the density. It is critically needed. Our clients need to transition not necessarily into their own home immediately. They need some apartments that they can afford to live in that don't cost $750 a month. They can't afford that. So thank you very much. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. MR. MIHALIC: Mr. Fred Thomas, last speaker. MR. OLLIFF: The anchor. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Hi, Fred. MR. THOMAS: Good morning, Commissioners. And I apologize for getting here late. I've been battling a fever for the last four days, and I may be a little redundant. So please -- please forgive me for that. First of all, let me also thank you. Commissioner Coletta reported to us not too long ago that you made affordable housing one of your high priorities, and that's a very, very wise decision. By way of an analogy, 35 years or 40 years ago -- 40 years ago in Immokalee they knew that in order to keep the work force Page 121 May 15, 2001 here, keep that work force here to pull the crop that feeds you, they had to have three components. They had to have affordable housing, affordable childcare, and affordable healthcare, and they put those pieces together by forming the Collier Health Services, Inc., about 35, 36 years ago; the Collier County Housing Authority :35 years ago; and RCA moved up from a small operation so that they could lock in work force. Because of a lack of affordable housing, we are the best training ground for good employees for Lee County. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. MR. THOMAS: There's a dollar value to the turnover cost. You heard it from the hospital. I'm sure that your county manager will tell you the same thing. I know I have difficulty getting employees because you can't find affordable housing here in Collier County. Between 1999 and 2000 -- I checked with Lee County Electric just in the Immokalee community to find out how many people were paying for electricity out of a rental home that moved to Lee County to Lehigh Acres to be exact. 110 families in a year's time went from an apartment dwelling to their homeownership in Lee County. Why? You could still get a $6,000 lot in Lee County, impact fees under $600. You get more house for the buck. And you can afford to do it. Somehow, even though Greg has done a tremendous job, smoking mirrors and making it appear that we did a lot, we're not putting a lot of money on the table to solve the affordable housing problems. We've got three situations you've got to work with. One, affordable homes for your professionals; two, apartments for your workers; and then three, your deep subsidy folks, and these are the ones I can help you with. Unfortunately, the only programs the federal government has now is in the farm labor area, and I get as much of that as possible, freeing up the Page122 May 15, 2001 houses that those farm workers are in for the service workers. But we need to put money to help subsidize apartments for the service workers. It's unfortunate that the lion's share of your service workers have to travel 40, 50 miles a day to get to their jobs. The only way to avoid that is to provide housing for them closer to the workplace. Anything that the Collier County Housing Authority can do to help you -- in fact, what we're getting ready to do right now, we're participating in the governor's program to provide a dormitory for unaccompanied farm workers and, in doing that, acquiring enough land. I'm going to make available 40 -- 60 lots now, 60 lots that we're going to sell for under 10,000. I might even do better than that, according to what Barbara Cacchione can do with her program to help with this process. But when you add nonvalue added $4800 of impact fees plus all of the development services requirements, nonvalue added, that increases the cost of the house. So for the same $90,000 that just goes to the bank, they get half the house they would get someplace else. These are the kind of issues that you-all need to look at real close as you decide what to do in the future and how to spend your bucks. The money is there, folks. All you have to do is stop lowering the millage rate. You've got the lowest millage rate in the country or maybe not in the country; definitely in the state. COMMISSIONER HENNING: it. I can tell you that. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: that This board is really working on direction. MR. THOMAS: We appreciate all your help in But if you stop lowering the millage rate and just be proud that you have the lowest millage rate in the state, you can build up a war chest to solve all of our problems. If there's any questions I can ask (sic), anything else I can Page123 May 15, 2001 do to help you along this line, I will. MS. BOLDEN: I might just add real quickly that if Commissioner Coletta is successful in getting a grant-writing committee or department here at the county, I would like to see them assist the housing authority in securing additional Section 8 rental assistance vouchers and certificates. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm sure that's one of the directions we would be going. MR. THOMAS: Yes, without a doubt. We'll apply for anything that's available. MS. BOLDEN: That's right. COMMISSIONER COI. ETTA: In fact, we could learn from Fred Thomas how to do it because he's a better driving force in Immokalee. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank God for Fred. MR. THOMAS: But this is -- but while I'm here, I'm going to have a young lady stand up. Esmeralda Serrata, stand up. You are probably looking down at the next executive director of the Collier County Housing Authority. Look around December 2002. MS. BOLDEN: Are you making your public announcement now? MR. THOMAS: I -- I made it last August. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. -- Mr. Chairman, our staff has made some recommendations, and I'm in favor of bringing those forward to the board so that we can look at it for implementation. CHAIRMAN CARTER: I hear a second on that? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Second. CHAIRMAN CARTER: I hear a second from Commissioner Mac'Kie. All in favor signify by saying aye. (Unanimous response.) CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign? Page 124 May 15, 2001 (No response.) CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries. I think we -- we understand the problem. We'll work on the issues. Again, there are more needs than there are revenues, and that is always the challenge in front of this board and future boards to deal with this complex situation that we find ourselves in today. I have listened; I have heard. We will have a lot of challenges here to try to work through this next budget year to begin to deal with the -- the situations. There are no magic rescuers out there, as you heard this morning, no magic bullets. It's a combination of, and we'll do -- we will do, I'm convinced, our part to get to where we need to be as quick as we can and the best that we can, but it won't happen overnight. I'm convinced of that. So thank you-all for your participation. Thank the audience for being here. Any closing comments on the part of the county manager? MR. OLLIFF: No. Just a thank-you to Greg, Cormac, and the staff who put together the presentation. I think good decisions come from good information, and I think you got some today. COMMISSIONER HENNING.' Amen. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes. Yes, fantastic. Thank you. We are adjourned. There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at I p.m. Page 125 May 15, 2001 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL ~ ~~ PH.D, ~HAIRMAN Attest M to Ct~ln~n's ATTEST: DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK ~ .These mi'nutes approved by the Board on ~-/;~-~ I presented .~,*" ~ or as corrected . , as TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING, INC., BY BARBARA A. DONOVAN, RMR, CRR Page 126