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BCC Minutes 04/11/2001 J (w/Bonita Springs City Council and Lee County BCC)April 11, 2001 JOINT MEETING WITH THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY, BONITA SPRINGS CITY COUNCIL, BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF LEE COUNTY WORTHINGTON COUNTRY CLUB CLUBHOUSE 13500 WORTHINGTON WAY BONITA SPRINGS, FLORIDA Wednesday, April 11, 2001 9:02 a.m. To 11:24 a.m. Collier County: Chairman James D. Carter, Ph.D. Vice Chairman Pamela S. Mac'Kie Commissioner Donna Fiala Commissioner Tom Henning Commissioner Jim Coletta Also Present: Thomas W. Olliff, County Manager David Weigel, County Attorney Lee County: Chairman Douglas R. St. Cerny Vice Chairman Andy Coy Commissioner John Albion Commissioner Bob Janes Commissioner Ray Judah Also Present: Don Stilwell, County Manager Jim Yaeger, County Attorney Bonita Springs: Page April 11, 2001 Mayor Paul Pass Vice Mayor Jay Arend Councilman Robert Wagner Councilman David Piper, Jr. Councilman Ben Nelson, Jr. Also Present: Gary Price, City Manager Barbara Barnes-Buchanan, Asst City Manager Audrey Vance, City Attorney Dianne Lynn, City Clerk/Treasurer Debbie Muchler, Recording Secretary Page 2 JOINT MEETING WITH THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, COLLIER COUNTY, BONITA SPRINGS CITY COUNCIL, AND BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, LEE COUNTY WORTHINGTON COUNTRY CLUB, CLUBHOUSE, 13500 WORTHINGTON WAY, BONITA SPRINGS, FL AGENDA Wednesday, April 11, 2001 9:00 a.m. Members Present: Collier County: Commissioner James D. Carter, Chairman, Ph.D., Commissioner Pamela S. Mac'Kie Vice-Chairwoman, Commissioner Donna Fiala, Commissioner Tom Henning, Commissioner Jim Coletta, County Manager Thomas W. Olliff, County Attorney David Weigel City of Bonita Springs: Mayor Paul Pass, Vice Mayor Jay Arend, Councilman Robert Wagner, Councilman David Piper, Jr., Councilman Ben Nelson, Jr., City Manager Gary Price, City Attorney Audrey Vance, Assistant City Manager Barbara Barnes-Buchanan, City Clerk Diane Lynn Lee County: Commissioner Douglas R. St. Cerny, Chairman, Commissioner Andy Coy, Vice Chairman, Commissioner John Albion, Commissioner Bob Janes, Commissioner Ray Judah, County Manager Don Stilwell, County Attorney Jim Yaeger Invocation and Pledge of Allegiance Transportation A) Livingston Rd. (Collier County) B) C.R. 951 (Collier County) C) Interstate 75 (Collier County) D) Bonita Beach Road 1. Discussion regarding an inter-local agreement with Lee and Collier Counties to define the role of Bonita Springs with regard to the area West of Vanderbilt. (City of Bonita Springs) 2. Discussion regarding improvements, including Vanderbilt Road. (City of Bonita Springs) E) Transfers between Transit Systems (Collier County) F) Coordination of efforts regarding State and Federal funding. (Collier County) Beaches A) Re-nourishment coordination (City of Bonita Springs, Collier County) B) No take seashell rule throughout South West Florida Coastline. (City of Bonita Springs) 1 April 11, 2001 4. Solid Waste Disposal (Collier County) 5. Hearing Officer Program (Collier County) 6. Affordable Housing (Lee County) 7. Hurricane Shelters ( Lee County) 2 April 11, 2001 April 11, 2001 MAYOR PASS: First of all, this morning I'd like to welcome everyone and thank everyone to -- for coming this morning to our meeting with Lee County, Collier County, and the City of Bonita Springs. It's a great turnout, and we -- we appreciate everyone's participation. I'd like to start this meeting this morning with an invocation and pledge of allegiance. Our invocation will be given by Pastor Phil Williams. If you might come up to the microphone here, Phil, and -- of Liberty Lighthouse Church of God. PASTOR WILLIAMS: Let's pray. Father, we thank you for this day. It is a beautiful day to be serving you. I pray, Lord, that you minister to us your grace and your mercy today. Your word has declared that we can ask wisdom from you, and I pray to God that you will grant that to us today; that all of the things that are accomplished in this meeting will be beneficial for this area; God, that our focus and our vision will be unified and that your love will prevail in our hearts and our lives and that your hand will cover us as we discuss the important issues of today. Keep your hand upon each one of these gentlemen and these ladies as they do the bidding of God in this area in Jesus's name. Amen. (The pledge of allegiance was recited in unison.) MAYOR PASS: Thank you. I'd now like to personally thank Worthington, the residents and the residential association of Worthington Country Club for offering this facility, providing the goodies here and the coffee this morning. I would like to introduce the president of the homeowners association, Mr. Mel George. (Applause.) MR. GEORGE: The general manager, Mark West, is the one who got involved in setting this all up for you. We're glad to do it, to offer our facilities here for you, because this was sort of a Page 3 April 11, 2001 short meeting, first of its kind. And if we need to do it again, we'll be pleased to have you again. Thank you very much for coming here and having this good meeting. MAYOR PASS: Thank you. Now, to get a little bit of things out of the way here, for some protocol we need to -- for the court reporter that Collier County has provided, we're going to have to share microphones. We're going to have to speak loudly, slowly, and clearly. Every time you speak state who you are because there's a big group here. She doesn't know everyone. So we'll have to speak our name for the record. It would make life easy for her. We will -- we have to be out of this room at 11:30. I'll end the meeting at 11:30. It can't go on any further than that. We'll be overrun by aggravated golfers who thought they should have shot 80 and they shot 94, and then the superintendent will be in with his staff. To start off, I think I would like to have -- Deb, if you would do a roll call for us. And when we come to the -- well, go ahead and do that first. MS. LYNN: Commissioner Coletta. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Here. MS. LYNN: Commissioner Fiala. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Hello. MS. LYNN: Commissioner Carter. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Here. MS. LYNN: Commissioner Mac'Kie. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Here. MS. LYNN: Commissioner Henning. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Here. MS. LYNN: Councilman Piper. COUNCILMAN PIPER: Here. MS. LYNN: Councilman Nelson. Page 4 April 11, 2001 COUNCILMAN NELSON: Here. MS. LYNN: Mayor Pass. MAYOR PASS: Here. MS. LYNN: Councilman Wagner. COUNCILMAN WAGNER: Here. MS. LYNN: Commissioner Judah. COMMISSIONER JUDAH: Here. MS. LYNN: Commissioner Janes. Commissioner Albion. COMMISSIONER ALBION: Here. MS. LYNN: Commissioner Coy. COMMISSIONER COY: Here. MS. LYNN: Commissioner St. Cerny. COMMISSIONER ST. CERNY: Here. MAYOR PASS: And if we could get the -- the chairman from the Collier County Commission to introduce your staff people you have up front here, please. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Thank you, Mayor Pass. Yes, that would be my privilege. In the front row, going across to my immediate right is David Weigel, our county attorney. Next to him is our county manager, Tom Olliff. That's the front row. And behind him we have numerous staff people. I see Jim Mudd, who is our administrator for utilities. I see -- who else do we got back there this morning? Ahh, John -- and Norm Feder, who is department of transportation; John Dunnuck, planning services; and Tom Storrar for-- is here, too, somewhere; and John Oates. Where is John? Okay. I think that covers it. I think that covers it. The rest of them are here. If I can't see you or I don't know that you're in the room, I -- I welcome you, and I thank you for being here and being a part of this meeting. MAYOR PASS: Doug. Page 5 April 11, 2001 COMMISSIONER ST. CERNY: Yes. I'd like to start with Don Stilwell, our county manager; Jim Yaeger, our county attorney; David Owen, our assistant county attorney; Scott Gilbertson and Dave Loveland from the department of transportation; and Karen Forsyth's here from county plans; Rick Diaz, who is our utilities director; Jim Lavender in the back is our public -- public works director; Bruce Loucks, who is deputy county manager; Bill Hammond, who is deputy county manager -- and have I missed anyone? -- and Pete Winton from -- our public services officer with county administration in the back; Tony Ma]ul from -- our budget director; Steve Boutelle from environmental sciences. And I think that pretty well catches it all. If I missed anybody, I apologize ahead of time. MAYOR PASS: Okay. From the City of Bonita Springs, over here we have Deb Muchler who is keeping minutes for us. Also Dianne Lynn is the city clerk; Barbara Barnes -Buchanan, who is the assistant city manager; Gary Price, the city manager; Audrey Vance is the city attorney. Also I'd like to introduce -- Dr. Bill Merwin from Florida Gulf Coast University is here this morning. And I thought I saw Mike Rippe come in from Florida Department of Transportation. Mike is sitting back over here. I think this is a group of people that -- you put this group of people together, you can make a lot of things happen. It's a very good group of folks. We could go now down to our agenda, and I'd like to say I'm not going to try and make this any more formal than what we have to make it. I think this is a great opportunity for us to get to know each other and be able to see exactly where our respective councils may be coming from. You put together this list of -- with the help of everyone of items we may talk about. We may get to them all. They may take off in a tangent in a direction that we didn't maybe focus on or think that it may go, but I think this is a Page 6 April 11, 2001 real opportunity for us. If we could go down here now to -- Item No. 2 is the transportation and -- and talk about the Livingston Road project coming up in Collier County. Dr. carter. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Okay. Thank you very much, Paul. I would like to turn that portion over to Norman Feder who is our director of transportation. He is no stranger to anyone in the room, having come from FDOT. We all know him. We all know how great he is. We're just fortunate to have him in Collier County. MR. FEDER: Thank you, Commissioner. Councilmen, Commissioners, it is indeed a pleasure to be here today. For the record, Norman Feder, transportation administrator, Collier County. It's my opportunity to introduce some folks on this issue. But before I do, I do want to recognize the effort Mayor Pass -- that on the state level there's been quite a bit of coordination on our efforts on Livingston, Livingston/Imperial. The mayor's hosted a number of meetings. Staff have -- have attended. And hopefully we can share with you today. Steve Miller, director of transportation engineering construction will give you a view of Livingston as it exists in Collier County, and I know then it is shared over with Lee County. Steve. MR. MILLER: Good morning. Good morning. My name is Steve Miller. I'm the director of transportation engineering for Collier County. I'm really pleased to be here this morning. And to kick this thing off, I'd like to give all of you an update on our efforts to construct Livingston Road in Collier County. I'll start off with Phase 1, which is currently under construction from Radio Road to Golden Gate Parkway, six-lane divided highway. Construction began in November 1999, Page 7 April 11, 2001 scheduled to be completed the third quarter of this year. The current construction contract amount is $10.4 million. Livingston Road Phase 2 is from Golden Gate Parkway to north of Pine Ridge Road, excuse me. That also -- it's going to be the whole -- the whole corridor is going to be six-laned all the way north of Immokalee Road. This Phase 2 from Golden Gate to -- to north of Pine Ridge is -- con -- construction is scheduled to start on or about the time we complete Phase 1, which is going to be late this summer, third quarter of 2001; construction anticipated to last approximately a year and a half; estimated cost $8.8 million. Phase 3 picks up north of Pine Ridge Road to Immokalee Road. Plans are currently about 60 percent on that phase of -- of Livingston Road; again, six lanes, construction to begin the first quarter of 2002, duration approximately two years, estimated cost 14.3 million. And, finally, Phase 4, which is from Immokalee Road to the Lee County line. That section of the corridor will be six lanes for approximately 2 miles north to what we're now calling our east- west connector which will run over to U.S. Forty -- to Old 41 and on across and connect into New 41. And then from that point to the Lee County line is approximately I mile. That will be four lanes which will be connecting to the Lee County section. Construction scheduled to commence the first quarter of 2002; estimated cost $8.8 million; and the duration is estimated to be about a year and a half, 18 months. Okay. What I'd like to do now is ask Dave Loveland to come up. Dave is the planning program director for Lee County DOT, my counterpart here. And he's going to give you an update on Lee County. COMMISSIONER ALBION: How do you want to handle questions? Page 8 April 11, 2001 MAYOR PASS: John -- yeah. Anytime you want to ask a question, John, why, we'll just -- COMMISSIONER ALBION: I want to be sure -- because as the speaker makes the presentation. So as far as you're concerned, your connection to where Lee County would be picking it up would be completed by the end of 2004? MR. MILLER: Well, let me look at my paper here, completion dates. I've got a schedule in here somewhere. Yes. Section 4 is scheduled to be complete in the third quarter of 2003. COMMISSIONER ALBION: In the year 2003? MR. MILLER: Right. So it's -- so no work scheduled -- Section 4 is scheduled to start first quarter of 2002 and be completed the third quarter of 2003. MR. FEDER: That would be 2004. MR. MILLER: Calendar year. MR. FEDER: Yeah. 2004. (Commissioner Janes entered the room.) COMMISSIONER ALBION: I think that's what our constituents, slash, drivers would be most -- MR. MILLER: Yes. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. And -- MR. LOVELAND: Thank you, Steve. Good morning. For the record, David Loveland, Lee County DOT. I'm going to discuss the status of the corridor as it continues north into Lee County. The first step from the Collier County line to Bonita Beach Road, which we are calling the Livingston/Imperial connection because it ties into our Imperial Street -- the initial two-lane construction is under way right now by Long Bay per an agreement that we have with them which they're estimating completion of that two-lane phase in August probably. And we will be reimbursed for that construction phase Page 9 April 11, 2001 with road impact fee credits. The county intends to immediately follow with the four- laning probably using the same contractor. The four-lane design is -- permitting is under way right now using Hole, Montes, which is the same design consultant working on the Collier side. And we have the right-of-way acquisition under way, and we -- as we move forward and complete that four-laning, we're expecting some partial reimbursement from FDOT through the county incentive grant program and -- and possibly some money from the City of Bonita Springs. Continuing north on Bonita Beach Road, the Imperial Street four-lane project is a joint city/county project using funds from both jurisdictions. The city just approved the four-lane concept on March 21st as a collector-type road with significant landscaping and buffering. The county has Hole, Montes on board for that design and permitting as well. We're in the process of negotiating the contract with them. That design phase should take about a year. The right-of-way funding for that section is funded in both the current year and some funding next year, next fiscal year. And the construction is funded in the 2003 -2004 fiscal year. That's estimated to be a $9-million project. North of Terry -- there's a -- there's an anticipated jog on Terry Street, and -- and at this point in time there is no project funded for improving East Terry Street. That is something that is still in the discussion stage. (Commissioner Mac'Kie entered the room.) Continuing north of Terry Street we have a project we call Three Oaks South, which will go from Terry Street to Bonita Hill Drive. That is also going to be a joint city/county-funded project. The exact alignment for that has not yet been set. The county has a consultant for transportation engineering looking at some Page 10 April 11, 2001 options, alignment options, which we will be presenting to the city council for a decision in May. We had previously looked at an alignment that used Old 41 and Cockleshell/Stillwell. Now we're considering an alignment to the east of that on Matheson Street borough alignment. The four-lane design and permitting and the right-of-way for that project are budgeted in the 2002-2003 fiscal year. Construction for that project is budgeted in the 2004-2005 fiscal year. Continuing north from Bonita Hill Drive to Williams Road~ the four-lane project goes through The Brooks. That is actually being constructed by that developer, Long Bay, as part of their DRI obligation. Picking up from that point, from Williams Road up to Corkscrew Road, the four-lane design and permitting is actually almost completed by the county, and right-of-way acquisition is under way, and construction is budgeted in the current year. We're anticipating going to bid for construction contractors May 3rd for that piece. And then it continues farther north, the Three Oaks widening, from Corkscrew Road to Alico Road; that's the existing portion of Three Oaks. Four-lane design and permitting is budgeted in 2001-2002 fiscal year. Construction is budgeted in 2002-2003 fiscal year. That's about a $10-million project. And even north of that, from Alico Road up to Daniels, another $11 1/2-million project. We have resolved some of the alignment issues we were working on with the area property owners in that area, so the funding for all phases is -- is current- year dollars. The four -- four-lane design and permitting is just getting started on that, and the right-of-way and construction phases will immediately follow as soon as we complete the design. Page 11 April 11, 2001 Any questions from the counties? COMMISSIONER CARTER: May -- I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' If I may, in Collier County we are wrestling with the possible taking of homes. And I was wondering how in Lee County you handle this situation and what you're doing to try to compensate homeowners in maybe losing their homes. MR. LOVELAND: I think I'll turn that question over to Karen Forsyth -- did I see Karen here? -- of our county lands division. We try to be sensitive to the acquisition process. I mean, there is an appraisal process and a negotiation process goes on, but I think Karen can explain that better than I can. MS. FORSYTH: Good morning. For the record, Karen Forsyth, county lands director for Lee County. I'm sorry. Your question -- I thought you said about how you are dealing with palms? COMMISSIONER COLETTA.' No. No. MS. FORSYTH: I'm sorry. I was -- I was in the back. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: In Collier County we are faced with the situation -- in Collier County's history we have never taken a person's property to put a road in. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: A house. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And very possibly we may be facing this situation in the very near future. I'm very interested how you're handling it in Lee County. MS. FORSYTH: The acquisition as a whole is what you're asking basically. COMMISSIONER CARTER: More important, the acquisition of the existing homes that would be in the right-of-way. MS. FORSYTH: Yes. Well, we are -- in the particular project that we're getting under way now in Lee County with the joint effort with the City of Bonita Springs is the Imperial Road project Page 12 April 11, 2001 where there will be about 27 houses affected. And we are trying early on to do acquisition of those properties that we know for sure are going to be needed, no matter what the final alignment is going to be, so that we can get these people moved on sooner than later. We will -- you know, we're starting with the appraisal process very shortly here, and we'll be looking for early acquisition to occur with a voluntary negotiation to take place much sooner than we will begin the condemnation process. But the laws, as you probably know, have changed regarding how condemnation must be handled, and we have to have pretty much the hundred percent right-of-way maps completed and about 60 percent design plans completed before we can actually pursue condemnation of properties where we haven't been able to settle voluntarily. But we try to get started early on. And when we have people who are ready to move and we know that we can probably come to terms with them early on, then we'll -- we'll get going sooner, even before the design is finalized or even -- in this case even really started to some degree. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Is there anything you can add on the human issue of the whole thing? Collier County, we're looking at the possibility of possibly buying the homes early on and then leasing them back at a very nominal cost so people's lives won't be so disturbed by the process. MS. FORSYTH: Well, of course, it's important in all -- in all these cases to deal with people in the most fair manner. And in this case -- you know, we will start with the appraised value. We will then determine what the situation is of that person, their financial situation and such, and what would be required of them to have to relocate; and we're going to look at each case on an individual basis. But, yes, we may very well end up paying Page13 April 11, 2001 something more than the appraised value if it makes sense when we look at cost avoidance of having to go to court later on. So the human factor, of course, is taken into consideration at a very serious level, and every effort's made to try to work with the people to help them find another place to live. And we don't go out and look for places, but we help them with the -- with the time frame and the relocation costs, the moving expenses, specifically. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. MAYOR PASS: Commissioner-- Commissioner Coy. MR. COY.' Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Andy Coy. Karen, if -- if we can help Collier with the -- the Midpoint Bridge and Veterans Parkway on how we would -- would acquire the houses and the property, how many houses we had to acquire for the Midpoint and Veterans and just a little bit on that. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I appreciate it. MS. FORSYTH: Well, the Midpoint Bridge project was the largest acquisition project affecting homeowners, and I believe that we had -- before it was all said and done with the Midpoint Bridge and then the continued corridor into Cape Coral, the Veterans Memorial Parkway, I think we affected about three, four hundred homes in totality. We -- we were able to acquire those properties -- about 85 percent of those properties we were able to acquire voluntarily. And I think that the main thing was having time. Time is -- is a good thing to have when you're dealing with people and just being fair. And -- and, no, we're not going to necessarily just stick right with the appraised value. If it makes sense due to other factors that may be involved in the negotiation, we may end up somewhere a little bit higher than the appraised value. It may not make sense to do that in all cases, though, but we try to work with the people and -- and the system as best we can and Page 14 April 11, 2001 work with them on moving expenses and that type of thing. MAYOR PASS: Robert. COUNCILMAN WAGNER: For the record, Councilman Robert Wagner, City of Bonita Springs. Karen, isn't the most accepted procedure for appraisal to have three separate appraisers approved by the homeowners in this particular case? And then to be fair, you eliminate the high and the Iow, and you settle on the middle? Is that procedure being followed by Lee County? MS. FORSYTH: Well, that -- that is not the procedure, and that -- that's not the typical procedure. The procedure that would be followed in this case is getting one appraisal that is paid for by -- by the government. The property owner is entitled -- once we get into the condemnation mode, is entitled to obtain their own appraisal as well. If we can come to terms based on those two appraisals through negotiations, then -- then we can put together a deal. If we can't at that point, then we could go get a third appraiser. That's not a requirement, but it's just part of the negotiation process. We would work pretty much on one appraisal, and that may do it. They may be very happy -- the property owner may be very happy with the offer that's made to them. If they're not, then they can go get their own appraiser, and we will then review that appraisal and consider that in the negotiation process. COUNCILMAN WAGNER: The second appraiser, if-- if necessary, is paid by whom? MS. FORSYTH: It would be paid for by -- by the governmental unit when there is the threat of condemnation. That is -- that is the requirement of the statute. Thank you. COUNCILMAN WAGNER: MAYOR PASS: John. COMMISSIONER ALBION: you, Mr. Mayor. John Albion. Thank you. Thank Page 15 April 11, 2001 A couple points, though, that we found to be particularly important. Recognize that by the time your staff members get to the property owners, in many instances they could have as many as six to seven solicitations by attorneys and other experts to represent them fully convincing them that if they do not hire someone from the outside, that the government is somehow going to rape and pillage you, and as a result, you will walk away very angry. So there are concerns there that if you -- if you're -- that if your staff does not treat people in what is perceived to be a fair and justifiable, calm way, understanding that you're really affecting their sanctuary -- I mean, this is their home -- then as a result, you will end up dealing with these other folks, for one. For two, what we've also found to be very helpful is that when we deal with property owners who decide that their ship has come in, that it is important to set a limit, in other words, an amount that you've offered. So as a result, if the amount that is determined by a court when you go through the process is that amount or less, as I understand it, then there are no fees that are paid to the attorney -- is that correct, Karen? -- for the owner to take -- MS. FORSYTH: Well, that actually comes possibly later on and when there's an offer of judgment made by the county. That's much further into the condemnation process. Cost is pretty much incurred by the governmental unit, for the most part, until after a judgment is made in the condemnation case. Should the offer of judgment be accepted -- the offer of judgment made by the governmental unit accepted by the property owner -- then the -- the additional costs from there forward would be eliminated. Is that correct, Mr. Yaeger? COMMISSIONER ALBION: And -- and I'm not an attorney. The reason I bring that up is because you're going to have some Page16 April 11, 2001 folks that are going to be reasonable and want to get on with their lives. You're going to have other folks possibly that are going to turn around and decide that, you know, I'm not happy about this road in the first place, and I don't like being uprooted from my home. And, therefore, maybe they're not going to see things as clearly, and they're going to have other people potentially getting them to sign on board. And that's going to make it even more difficult. So if there's some reasonableness that can be attained, it's normally in the offer of judgment later on in the process. It shouldn't be used as a threat but should be used hopefully to try to get the conversation narrowed down to what's really fair because you still have all the other citizens of your county to represent. So we found that to be very helpful. But our -- I would say that Karen has done an exceptional job, her and her staff, as far as the acquisition of property and dealing with property owners. I really -- Commissioner Coy, whatever we can do to make our staff members available possibly to help with some of that process. John Renner (phonetic) is considered one of the best in the state, from what I understand, as far as some of what he's come up with towards trying to work with the process and work with people to get to that good balance. It's hard because, again, you're dealing with people's homes and their perception of the value. It may not agree with the appraisers', but you still have property owners that are also being affected by the cost, so it's not easy. MAYOR PASS: The other thing that -- that our staff has -- has kind of taken the lead on, we recently purchased a parcel of property that we're going to have to get rid of 27 manufactured homes and -- I don't know how many -- 30 tenants approximately that are going to have to be relocated, have worked -- the Bonita Page 17 April 11, 2001 Springs Board of Realtors has went to work to try and find -- and worked with the local banking facilities to find -- develop a list of homes that are maybe $90,000 or less, work with the -- their community reinvestment act to be able to write down closing costs, write down points, to be able to get these people maybe out of a -- a -- a tenant situation into a homeowner situation. And if we can -- we found that very successful so far with being able to assist some people to actually help them step up their quality of life and actually owning a home. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And -- Commissioner Coletta here. That's the best idea I've heard yet. I -- I laud -- I applaud you for your efforts in this direction. COUNCILMAN AREND.' Mr. Mayor, I'd like to also comment -- Councilman Arend for the record. I'd also like to comment on that, that we also created an incentive for these people to act sooner rather than later, and that seems to be working very well. We've had a lot of people take us up on the offer almost immediately because of an increased dollar amount that we've given them as an incentive. MAYOR PASS: If we can put an extra four, five thousand dollars into their pocket instead of an attorney's pocket, we feel we're doing them more justice. And so that's -- that's the -- the early out. If they can take the early exceptions, we feel better. Not that I don't -- I don't have anything against attorneys, okay. I get these attorneys together here, and you understand why sharks eat their family. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you so much. I -- I just have one final -- my name is Donna Fiala, and just one final thing to add: One of the concerns that I have with some of the people in my community, their property has been -- has -- has been assigned to have maybe future -- a road coming through it. They say that their property values have been dropping for the last ten Page 18 April 11, 2001 years; their property is worth a lot less. Once we finally decide whether we're going to put that road through or not, their properties will probably decrease even more. What do you do about adjusting that decrease in value? MS. FORSYTH: Okay. The time when the negotiations begin, our appraisal is based on what the value is of that property as of that date. With all the properties that we acquired for the Midpoint Bridge project, we didn't have any property owner who was maybe left on the other side of the project or any remainder property owner come forward with any claim against the county. There was a riparian right issue, some of those along the river that had a riparian issue that -- that entered into a lawsuit with the county but -- or came against the county in a lawsuit. But as far as anyone coming forward and saying, "My property was affected. I couldn't sell it," or "It was sold for a lot less than what it used to be worth," we never had anyone come forward on that. And I think that should someone come forward, then that's really up to the courts to decide if there is really an impact against the property because of the project. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and it is unfortunate sometimes for people. But I think in Lee County we make a real effort to do buffering that will help with noise reduction and -- and try to protect those properties that may be up against this new corridor. COMMISSIONER CARTER: I think what I'm -- Commissioner Carter. I think what I'm hearing behind all of this is called strategic road planning. You have to know what you're going to do early. You have to add that into your 2020 plan or ten-year plan or five-year plan. Once you've set the course, know what you're going to do. Don't keep changing the course because that's going to unsettle everyone in the process. If I lived in one of those homes, I know within 10 or 15 years Page 19 April 11, 2001 you're going to take that home, we can plan accordingly. We can negotiate, and we can accomplish the goal. But if we keep revisiting the situation all the time, I think that adds turmoil to everything that I'm hearing. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just a brief comment -. Pam Mac'Kie -- that it's amazing to -- to me. You know, we're struggling with this so much as Collier County. We've never taken a home for a road -- can you believe that? -- you know, as long as we've been in government. And Bonita has, for instance, already had to start. As long -- as short a period of time as you've been in the business, you've already had to deal with it. And hopefully what will come out of this conversation for the members of our board is an acceptance of the reality of the situation that this is the way government has to work. And as -- as difficult as it is for us, we have to do it. And -- and hopefully hearing about Lee County's experience with three or four hundred on one project and twenty-something in another will help our board to have a little more, maybe, backbone to accept the reality of the -- the hard part of the job sometimes. MAYOR PASS: Just --just in recent memory, we've had -- it has worked very well because we've spent a lot of time down here working on this project. The corner of Old 41 and Terry Street, the iht -- the intersection was horrible. You couldn't -- I -- you may wait six traffic lights to get through that intersection. It had to be widened. If I remember right, there were 16 homes that had to be taken to do that project. No one -- that's been less than ten years ago. No one remembers that today. History has borne out that now we can negotiate that intersection in a timely fashion. And it was the right thing to do for the public service. So keep all that in perspective. That doesn't make it any easier, but keep all that in perspective, because that project did work out very well, and they were up to the task of making it Page 20 April 11, 2001 happen at that time. MS. FORSYTH: Also, if I may quickly, Collier County has just hired a new director for their division of county lands or -- I'm not sure. I think it's rural property management -- Mr. Chuck Harrington. I've known Chuck on a professional basis for 12 years. You've got an outstanding man there. I think you'll be very happy with the way he handles any and all of your projects. So he's -- he's got a lot of experience in this area. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Before we leave the topic of roads, can I ask one quick question of Lee County? It looks like they have a great program. How are you funding it? MR. LOVELAND: Our projects are all funded with road impact fees and gas taxes. In some cases we're using joint projects with the city, the City of Bonita Springs, impact fees. MAYOR PASS: Well, one -- once again, that brings to -- to mind that you may -- I wonder if this meeting has -- first, I had one -- we had two thinkings, and then I'm wondering if maybe we need the city of Naples in and the City of Fort Myers in also because they are regional issues. John. COMMISSIONER ALBION: John Albion. I'm getting used to that. Let's not forget -- and I really applaud what our board and what our staff has done. We've been very, very aggressively going after state grant opportunities besides. And I will tell you that close monitoring of state and even some federal opportunities can really pay off big. We were the only county in the entire state that put in for a state infrastructure loan construction loan. The first time it was offered was last year, and we did it for Veterans Parkway Extension. Needless to say, we got it, some $6 million. I believe it was an interest-free loan, if I -- if I recall. MR. LOVELAND: That's correct. Page 21 April 11, 2001 COMMISSIONER ALBION: So that -- that's one way. And we're in with the TOPS funding. We're trying to get another $20 million for two different road projects that really affects the region. So what really would be very helpful and important, when you look at our population ver -- versus other population counts in the state -- and we have the census to really give us a benchmark there -- we need to come together and make sure that these projects -- that almost all of them are going to have regional significance at this point, the really big ones. We need to come together and make sure that we are pulling oars in the same direction. It's the only way that we can fight the east coast. I appreciated the efforts of Collier, as well as we even got help from -- I believe, from Hendry and Charlotte County. But we got in a little bit of trouble with the TOPS grant by the Transportation Outreach Program. And, Mayor Pass, I believe that you also made contact up there. MAYOR PASS: Last week. And before that we had called Senator Rossin's office. COMMISSIONER ALBION: Right. And -- and that was very important because when we did the initial calls and then we did the follow-up calls, after we did the Paul Revere Act, getting everyone going, they commented about the fact that we were even getting calls from Collier and Bonita and Hendry, Charlotte. And I think that's because this project have -- these projects have regional significance. And you need to understand that this is not just Lee County and needs to be treated that way. Well, Collier County also has projects that are going to be of regional significance, as certainly does Bonita Springs, the city as a whole. And we need to coordinate that in advance of when session is going to occur. There's going to be a reauthorization of T-21 in 2003; that's going to be critical. The process to get to Page 22 April 11, 2001 authorization or reauthorization is going to be critical. And if we don't come together on it, the money simply goes somewhere else. It doesn't stay in someone's pocket or in someone's shoe box. It gets spent somewhere. So that's an area where, first, let me say that we may be calling on you for more help if TOPS gets in any more trouble again. And as in Palm Beach down to Broward County that has been fighting off -- or fighting to get some of that money. And then, as some of these other projects come forward -- and I know we have the Imperial Bridge, and we're going to have to find a way to get that funded. And -- and you should really -- hopefully with Norm Feder, who I know this side of the table and I'm sure everybody here has a great deal of respect for his knowledge and ability in the process, we need to come together and make some of these things happen and show consistency, effort. And I'm going to tell you, showing up and using the position, the fact that you have the title of commissioner or city councilmember, matters when you go up there. And I will tell you, for the TOPS grant alone, when we went before the committee, Bob Janes and I were the only two county commissioners and Bill Merwin was the only university president that showed up for a pot that had $116 million in it that were elected officials for -- for a specific project. And we're -- that was for the 16 million -- or we've an update now. It's 20 million between Metro Extension, and Treeline out of $116.3 million pot. We used to call those areas that got those Miami, Orlando, Jacksonville, Tallahassee area, the panhandle, because they were so close. This is Southwest Florida that's doing it now. So if we come together, it will be a big help. COMMISSIONER CARTER: I -- I appreciate -- Commissioner Carter. I appreciate that, Commissioner Albion. As we work on Southwest Regional Planning Council, we know how important Page 23 April 11, 2001 that is. And when I went to Tallahassee for Legislative Day, I found out that I was the Lone Ranger. And that was a real learning experience for me because I know what you've got. I'm still looking for a quarter of a million dollars for Immokalee for a customs house. And I know what you did, and it's not going to happen to us again. You're right. We have to work together and get together in front of those committees because the money is there. And it's the old theory; the squeaky wheel gets the most grease. And we've got to squeak a lot more to have that effect. MAYOR PASS: And -- and, Commissioner Albion, that is exactly right. My first trip last week up there -- your elected position will get you an appointment to see people, and you can get into the door. The door will get open for you. COMMISSIONER ALBION: If I can say, Mayor Pass, this is a really important point because most other counties aren't willing or just aren't knowledgeable about doing it. So you actually create an advantage. As I said, we're the only county that went for Veterans Parkway money under the SIB (phonetic) loan last year. This year it's my understanding that the same loan program has over $300 million in applications for some $50 million in the pot. Does that give you an indication of what can happen in one year's time? So if you get in -- if-- if you're up front and you get in early and you push, it's worth millions of dollars potentially to your community. That's going to solve significant problems. So you don't have to play by the old rules. Figure out how to get in front of the train instead of getting basically run over by one. MR. LOVELAND: Mr. Chairman, Dave Loveland again for the record. I'll -- I'll also note, Commissioner, one other thing that Lee County has working for it in terms of transportation revenues, we also have toll facilities, so we do have some toll revenues in the mix. None of those are being applied to the road Page 24 April 11, 2001 improvement projects that I mentioned to you, but that is part of our overall mix. If you don't have any other questions on the Livingston and Three Oaks connection, I'll turn the microphone over to Scott Gilbertson, our -- our Lee County DOT director. He's here to talk about the next item. MR. GILBERTSON: Scott Gilbertson, Lee County DOT for the record. Good morning, Commissioners and Councilmen. It's good to be here today. I just want to give you a brief overview of what we're doing in DOT as far as the County Road 951 alignment goes. It's a preliminary study from our viewpoint. We had a consultant working on several different alignments. We had gone out, county staff, and interviewed with many of the large property owners -- that's large property, not large owners -- figure out what kind of alignments would best fit their needs and their future plans, and we then set up some alignments based on that feedback. We also talked with the university about some of their needs, and we also then met with some of the environmental and engineering -- or permitting groups and found out that they, of course, have some different interests than what the large property owners had. At that point in time, a suggestion was made by the director of CREW to get a con -- conflict dispute resolution group to see if they can't bring some kind of consensus to this alignment. So that's where the county's currently at. We received an initial proposal from the University of Central Florida working through Florida State University to do this conflict resolution assessment. It will initially just be a interview of a number of estate holders out there that we can identify, somewhere around 40 people or so. And then from that Page 25 April 11, 2001 they will put together a proposal which we will take back to our Board of County Commissioners for their approval and/or modifications to it. In the meantime, we have also been trying to work with some of the smaller property owners down in the Bonita Grande area, to respect their wishes to the extent possible, and also coordinating with the South Florida Water Management District in their acquisition of some lands down there for restoration of some other programs that they are working on through the federal government. So right now, today, it's preliminary, and it's a long ways to go before we have any kind of alignment set. And there's gooing to develop a lot of meetings and a lot of issues and a lot of disputes, I imagine, before we get anything real definitive. That's the status of Lee County. I turn the meeting over now to Dawn Wolfe for a status report for Collier County. MS. WOLFE: Good morning. For the record, Dawn Wolfe, transportation planning director, Collier County. The status of the 951 extension in Collier County is currently in an FDOT budget program for fiscal year 2004. Actually, we are under our own SIB application that we are awaiting the results to see if we will get funds that would expedite the construction of Golden Gate Parkway and allow us to use those funds to move on three other projects, which includes the fast-tracking of a PD&E for the extension of 951 from its current termination at Immokalee Road up into Lee County, meeting up with a point yet to be determined along Bonita Beach Road. We are also, though, because we have some ma]or developments who are currently coming forward with proposals, working with those developers to not limit our opportunities of alignment. We are looking at some flexibility such that as we go Page 26 April 11, 2001 through the PD&E process that we have not made a predetermination of a corridor. This allows us to be open for alternative funding other than local revenues. This opens up our opportunities through other grants, through SIB, and as well as the use of federal funds that come to us through our regular allocations. We are looking at potentially having an advancement by one fiscal year so that we would have it in our fiscal year 2003 with, perhaps, opportunity for county advancement. We are in discussions with FDOT on moving that forward so that we can establish the primary corridor of the connection from Immokalee Road up to Bonita Beach Road, since we do have these major landholders, that we can set the reservation of those right-of-way for the future construction of that roadway. And if there are any questions on that, I'd be happy to answer them. COMMISSIONER FIALA: What are we -- what are we -- Donna Fiala from Collier County. What are we doing now to handle the environmentally sensitive issues in that extension of 9517 MS. WOLFE: The -- because we do recognize that it is a highly environmentally sensitive area, that the landholders in that area are actually working with the permitting agency to reestablish a flow-way to help alleviate some of the ma]or flooding that has occurred in the past ten years through the constriction of preexisting flow ways. We are wanting to go through the PD&E process to ensure that we have buy-in by those permitting agencies rather than setting an arbitrary -- this is because a line is on a map, this is where we're going to put the right-of-way at. We want to utilize the FDOT's project development and environmental process to ensure early buy-in of our opportunities and abilities to build this road, if we are able to at all, because of the environmental nature of the lands we would have to traverse in order to put this extension in. Page 27 April 11, 2001 MAYOR PASS: Do you have -- Paul Pass. Do you have any proposed -- that -- your proposed access points to this 951 extension unit? MS. WOLFE: There are -- there is a -- a few other considerations. As part of a proposed planned unit development that's currently in rezone, we will be coming before the Board of County Commissioners. We are including conditions that would subject those access points to meeting whatever our access management plan is at the time that connection to 951 could be made. We will -- we will evaluate all alternatives, including controlled access to the highest degree but still allowing private land use rights to access their property to the extent of looking at limited access to move traffic in a regional manner. That's, like I said, one reason why we wanted to go to the extent of a natural project development environment rather than just establishing a corridor and going forward saying, "Okay. Well, we're going to do our standard half-mile signal spacing." we'll have the ability to look at how much of an access control we can have, especially with large land holding in this area and the environmental nature of the corridors. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Commissioner Mac'Kie. Just quickly, Dawn, I'd like to meet with you about that because I haven't heard anything about a PUD with an access point. I thought that what we were talking about on 951 was extremely limited, if not no access points. So I'd like to meet with you on that project when we're done here. MAYOR PASS: Commissioner Nelson. COUNCILMAN NELSON: Yeah. Ben Nelson, City of Bonita Springs. Part of the problem with getting a consensus on Imperial Street and relief within our community has been the public's perception that there would be some immediate relief from 951. Page 28 April 11, 2001 Some of us were of the opinion that this was a long way off and part of our future relief. Could you -- could anybody give us a -- a kind of a -- a guesstimate on when this would be, what -- what century or whenever this would happen? MS. WOLFE: Which -- which century it would be is current century. COUNCILMAN NELSON: Yes. MS. WOLFE: We do, both in the Lee and Collier long-range transportation plan, have 951 in there as a class feasible. None of us currently have it in our five-year work programs, so that kind of means somewhere between 2005 and 2025. But as we establish alignments and look at opportunities for funding or applying additional revenues to the area, we will be able to perhaps expedite it in a nearer term versus a longer term of 25 years or so. So right now no -- no one has the dollars to pay for it today, but we also don't know where it's going to go yet. COUNCILMAN NELSON: So it's -- it's fair to say -- yeah. Ben Nelson, City of Bonita. It's fair to say that it would be within 25 years, but it's -- it's -- it's definitely going to be outside five years, would you say? MS. WOLFE: Yes. COUNCILMAN NELSON: Okay. COMMISSIONER CARTER: All right. Commissioner Carter again. I -- I think that's important for both the counties and the City of -- of Bonita. You know, we have everything in the sunshine on up to the county manager. I think all board members need to be briefed as this goes on. The higher boards need to be briefed on this in terms of just what Commissioner Mac'Kie asked. This integration of access plans and all of this could get very troublesome if we start approving something before we got the master plan in place. We really need to know where we're going. Page 29 April 11, 2001 MAYOR PASS: Commissioner Albion. COMMISSIONER ALBION: Thank you, Mayor Pass. John Albion. This is an area where I think that we do need, perhaps, to discuss and reach at least conceptual agreement. There's going to be a temptation, especially since the money hasn't been identified, to start swapping out land for access. That's -- should send off every danger or warning signal based upon the last 25 or 40 years of growth in -- in Southwest Florida at this point, especially with the eastern part of the county. And I really believe that this should be an area where hopefully all of our boards can agree that we are not going to be looking at swapping out accesses for land. I mean, if it's -- unless the court says and that's the only way somehow, perhaps, we'll discuss it with each other. But let's all really put this one to a higher standard. Otherwise, we are going to be collapsing the urban boundary issue that is only going to cause all sorts of problems with the DRGR zone and water potential in the future, environmental problems, that in 20 or 30 or 40 years they may look back and say, "What the heck were these people thinking?" . COMMISSIONER CARTER: You're absolutely right, Commissioner Albion. I --you know, I'm --you know, my mind's going like this: I think we're going to have a meeting, at least between our two boards and our county managers, soon to discuss this because we're right in the midst of -- well, you know, we have community character that's came in -- just came in front of us yesterday. We've got so many things moving. And I'm like you. Where are all the pieces? Where's the ma]or plan, and how do we add the regional cooperation and agreement here so we just don't sell ourselves out unintentionally? MAYOR PASS: Commissioner Judah. Page 30 April 11, 2001 MR. JUDAH: I didn't want to interrupt. Ray Judah for the record. What I wanted to underscore was what Commissioner Albion just spoke of. And it appears we're all on board, and Commissioner Mac'Kie also brought it to light that we need to be very cognizant of the fact we need to designate this eventual arterial as a controlled access arterial. We don't want to swap out access to the property owners to be able to try to justify how we're going to construct this road from a cost standpoint. And I appreciate both Mac'Kie's and Albion's comments in that regard, and Commissioner Carter. One thing I wanted to bring up also is -- is that while it may sound distasteful at this time, it's something we really need to give some thought to as a toll road. I say that because a percentage of those dollars could be allocated towards better management of the environmentally critical lands that were spoken of. Of course, CREW has been very instrumental with the combined effort of Lee and Collier County in acquiring a lot of environmentally sensitive lands, both Collier and Lee County. These lands would potentially be affected, and we could be better stewards if we were to consider this -- this as a toll road when we could allocate dollars to better manage those lands. So hopefully we'll give some thought as we move forward with the eventual alignment and design of this road. Thank you. MAYOR PASS: Anything else? MS. WOLFE: (Shook head.) MAYOR PASS: All right. We go to -- anybody else got any questions? Okay. We're going to go down to the -- Item C. Mr. Feder? MR. FEDER: The battery's being changed on the mike, so I guess I got the assignment to speak as loud as I can, which is Page 31 April 11, 2001 not a problem. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: They picked the right guy for that. MR. FEDER: For the record, Norman Feder, Collier County transportation administrator. 1-75, usually -- we wanted to bring for your consideration today an excellent discussion of -- is that as the 1-75 -- as the 1-75 study, as far as education -- and Mike Rippe's here. And I know good efforts are on that here in Lee and Collier. It was the effort, as was discussed here before, of everybody working together making our needs known that brought about 250 million, roughly, to Southwest Florida and Lee and Collier County for 1-75 improvements. At the same time, I think it's going to be very difficult to continue pursuing those funds that were so well received. And we need to make sure that as we look at the ultimate cross- section in the project development environment study that DOT is undertaking now in our two counties, that we not immediately go to a interim process of six-laning without improvement to the interchanges but, rather, also ask them to look at and encourage them to consider other alternatives, whether they be the prospects of buying the ultimate right-of-way, which is basically around the interchanges, and then using the funds for seed money for toll roads, in the center for the high-occupancy lanes, using those toll facilities that stay locally to then be leveraged to build the interchanges that are needed and then ultimately the six lanes and the general-use lanes or other alternatives. I think it's extremely important that we not just immediately say that the quick relief is the -- adding two lanes in the median for a six- lane facility when the biggest problem we have today is the constraint at the interchanges. So even with six lanes, we've got continuous right turn lanes and you have problems with the Page 32 April 11, 2001 interchanges. So the only thing I was raising with this today is -- to the boards is to encourage that issues be evaluated. It may be that the six lanes in the median, when all is considered, is the best alternative -- it's obviously the quickest for some relief -- but that we look at the full range of alternatives through that PD&E study rather than immediately jumping to that as the interim solution. MAYOR PASS: We have a -- as we talked at the last Lee County MPO meeting, the issue was -- was brought up -- we talked on it somewhat -- of the impact on 1-75 and what may need to have happen. As we talked, by the state's own modeling, 1-75 fails in the year 2003 as it is now. So we're going to six-lane it in the year 2008. And I asked the question, when -- how long does that modeling show that the interstate highway six-laning will last? And they told me to 2020. Well, that almost doesn't pass the straight-face test. You know, that's not even going to carry it. But under the assumption that it does last to 2020, we're going to build an interstate highway to last only 12 years? I don't think that's very forward thinking. I think it's imperative upon this group to show -- to -- to assist the state, to say, "Listen, how can we help you upgrade this to an eight-lane facility or get the interchanges, acquisitions," as Norm has brought up. I think those things -- as a united front, once again, that if we come together and go to the state and say, you know, "How can we help you? How can we make these things happen?" . Commissioner Mac'Kie. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I just -- Commissioner Mac'Kie. That -- that issue right there is one where each of us -- I know we can't take action today, but it might be something that we should each take back to our respective boards to pass a resolution, you know, so that we have effectively created a policy that we -- then Page 33 April 11, 2001 our staffs have marching orders to go forward and work together on that because that is so critical, and it ties to what Commissioner Albion said about our needing to work regionally on these -- these issues, that that's one where I think we need to absolutely take an official action so our staffs have clear direction to go work together on it. I'd suggest that to our chairman for our return. COMMISSIONER CARTER: No problem with that at all, Commissioner Mac'Kie. We'll go right down the same path. In fact, one of the things I was thinking here is, perhaps, Mayor Pass and the chairman of Lee and myself ought to establish some sort of a regular meeting with our -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Absolutely. COMMISSIONER CARTER: -- our managers and kind of use that as a focus group to get back to our respective elected bodies to pull this together to get to the resolution so that we can -- we can march this and then see how that evolves. And if that sounds reasonable to the chairman of Lee and the mayor of Bonita city to do, we may do that. MAYOR PASS: John. COMMISSIONER ALBION: John Albion. First, Chairman Carter, we just need to make sure that if we are going to do something intercounty or with -- and with the city besides to make sure that we don't have any two members of the Regional Planning Council because that may be a weapon to be able to use to try to help. That's okay because it's only two members from each of our boards and, I believe, one from the city. So that should be just something to be cognizant of as we go through that part of the process so that we keep all opportunities available, for one. For two, my hope is that as this PD&E study goes forward on 1-75 that it will probably, I think, come more to light that those Page 34 April 11, 2001 inside lanes -- it would be a straight shot, possibly from Colonial or wherever, Daniels, all the way down into Collier County. So, therefore, to really get that traffic separated out -- because a number of people are still going to use 75 as a local road -- will have it. As far as the possibility of some of the relievers, let's keep in mind this is why it's so critical to get that Three Oaks extension all the way down to Livingston done, why we need to get that whole 951 issue resolved, and ultimately 1-75 widening. But Metro Extension is also going to provide us some of that relief. So there are elements that we need to still keep in mind are going to provide some relief, and we have to think of it more out of the box. I will also tell you that if a toll road should become a consideration, there are a number of federal highway plots that become suddenly available as long as we're being innovative and creative in how we're going about it. And we've had real success in that arena, but they need the projects to prove to congress that these elements can work in the service transportation authorization. So, therefore, there are some great segues here that we will be able to borrow from, but I still think the inside lanes will hopefully make sense. And, by the way, somehow we've got to get our arms around what this whole high-speed rail issue is going to mean, because that could ultimately mean that -- for all I know, we may not get the six lanes until 2020, much less 2008. So that's an issue in itself. Personally, I think the areas that are going to benefit from the high-speed rails can be the ones that pay for it. And when it's our turn, then it will be our turn. And if the middle of the state, east -- the east coast want it and the Olympics need it, which is going to all -- affect that area, more power to them. Page 35 April 11, 2001 Open up your checkbooks; don't steal from ours because that's ultimately going to really create gridlock down here for the -- for the benefit of that whole middle part of the state. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Commissioner Albion, all we have to do is convince the state legislature of that. As you know and I know from being up there that they're -- they're trying to get some sort of a commission maybe to slow that down to try to get to what you just -- just addressed, but I don't know where it stands today as it's moving through the legislature. COMMISSIONER ALBION: Well, until they make some decisions, the one thing that has to be an element of it is what is a true im -- traffic impact statement to the other counties or all the counties in the state? And somehow I don't hear a lot of discussion of making sure that's done, only this whole issue about whether high-speed rails should go forward or not. And the other shoe, which really this is the other shoe dropping, is going to have some very terrible effects for Southwest Florida potentially the way they're going about it right now. And I question if we would ever see the high-speed rail down here under the scenario that they're proposing. So, therefore, we get to be stuck with the bill without any of the benefit. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Or do we even want it. MAYOR PASS: Also, I don't know if everyone knows or not, but we do meet. Norm Feder and his staff and Scott Gilbertson and his staff do come to the City of Bonita Springs about every nine or ten weeks. We -- in our conference room. We get in there and have a very candid conversation about where everyone's at with their projects to coordinate them, because one of the last things we want to do is when someone builds it, someone else have to come and tear it up and then rebuild it, sort of the normal government sort of project thing. Page 36 April 11, 2001 The cooperation has been extraordinary. I'm not -- it's really been extraordinary, and for everyone to come together and work like this, I think we're going to see our road projects driven forward at -- at a more rapid -- as fast as we can pay for them. I think the staff is going to be geared up to build them. Okay. Any other 1-75 issues here? We're going to go down to Item D. Oh, David. COUNCILMAN PIPER: David Piper, Jr., City of Bonita Springs councilman. Whether it's a six-lane on 1-75 or an eight-lane, I think it's really important that during the PD&E that we address the regional issue of the infrastructure as far as the drainage under I- 75 for future flooding issues. And I know that many times this is one that's overlooked and passed along our state systems. You'll find that that's one of the problems that we have with flooding. So whenever this is being developed I think we ought to put our heads together and especially for the City of Bonita Springs. I know that we're in desperate need for some drainage infrastructure under 1-75. MAYOR PASS: All right. Before we -- we've been here a little over an hour. Before we go on to the next item there, we're going to try and change gears just a little bit and get a little more local. Gary, before you go, we'll take a -- seven minutes here. Anybody that needs to get up and stretch their legs for just a second, we'll reconvene at quarter after by my watch. (A short break was held.} MAYOR PASS: Okay. We're going to get down now to Item D, Subsection I there. Gary Price. MR. PRICE: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. While all this talk of roads and construction is -- is necessary, for one, I think that the City of Bonita Springs' city council realizes that -- how that road's constructed and its impact on the neighboring property Page 37 April 11, 2001 owners. With regard to the Imperial Street, council made it very clear that you wanted to do a first-class job with buffering and landscaping and traffic calming and all those kinds of issues. That makes the road in such a way that the adjacent property owners' properties that are not vacant have as much -- or as little impact as possible. Also, one of the first things you did when you took office was instructed that you wanted to pull the Bonita Beach Road corridor out and get started on some kind of improvement with the appearance of that corridor before you actually finished your land use plan and, of course, the Land Development Code. And we are in the process of doing that. As you know, the -- you just approved the -- the -- the county's implementation phase of the Bonita Beach Road corridor study. One problem that I've noticed is that when you get to Vanderbilt, the south side of Bonita Beach Road is actually in Collier County. And I know there are agreements between the two counties with regard to Bonita Beach Road, and that's the reason I put this on the agenda. At this point I'd like to turn the discussion over to Ed Kant. He's the Collier County transportation operations director to talk about that agreement. MR. KANT: Thank you, Mr. Price. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, Commissioners, Edward Kant, transportation operations director for Collier County. There are actually two agreements. Back in 1989, which seems how things come full circle, because I was working for Lee County building first a portion of Bonita Road four-laning back in '89, was -- the first agreement -- it was a master interlocal agreement between Collier and Lee which talked to the joint planning design, construction, and maintenance of road improvements for the two counties. There was then a further Page 38 April 11, 2001 agreement on -- in 1996 we spoke specifically to Bonita Beach Road. The Bonita Beach Road agreement was a -- a construction agreement, and then we entered into this maintenance agreement, which is a 1998 agreement. In the maintenance agreement Lee County has agreed to maintain Bonita Beach Road from Hickory Boulevard and Vanderbilt Drive. And obviously all of Bonita Beach Road east of Hickory Drive and east of Vanderbilt Drive is wholly within Lee County. Collier County has agreed to maintain Vanderbilt Drive from Bonita Beach Road to Woods Edge Parkway, which is the county line. Obviously south of that point all of Vanderbilt Drive is wholly within Collier County. Collier County in this agreement also agreed to maintain the roadway known as Woods Edge Parkway between Vanderbilt Drive and U.S. 41. However, that agreement will not -- that maintenance obligation will not commence until Woods Edge Parkway is dedicated to Collier and Lee Counties and accepted by Collier and Lee Counties as a public roadway, and there's a -- I won't go into details the number of contingencies in the agreement specifying some of the issues that have to be addressed to maintain or to attain that dedication. As of this date -- and I just had a brief conversation during the break with some of the Lee County and Bonita Springs staff -- there's been no move forward on the part of the developer, that Woods Edge development. So at this point as we stand here, that's still a private road and the fact which doesn't sadden me at all. The -- the line which runs through that road, that road actually has a kind of a little S hook on the end of it that brings it well up into the City of Bonita Springs. The east -- the due east- west portion lies about 50 percent. I say about 50 percent because the centerline is just to the south of the actual county line. Page 39 April 11, 2001 The agreement further goes on to describe the standards for maintenance, which is pretty -- pretty standard in terms of everything that's within the right-of-way will be maintained. There are some typical legalese which, again, I won't go into with you, but there's also a paragraph in this particular agreement which speaks to the cost sharing for the permitting, design, and construction costs for the four-laning of Vanderbilt Drive within Lee County. And that speaks to a 50/50 share on Vanderbilt within Lee County and that that also says that at such time as that becomes a viable option, that there will be a new interlocal agreement between the parties which probably will also be a good opportunity for the City of Bonita Springs to be either a party to this or at least to -- to have an interest if they so choose. The -- then, further, in the -- in this agreement there are the typical mutual identification clauses, the agreement that one county won't harm the other county by its maintenance activities, and it's -- other than that, it's -- it's a pretty straightforward agreement. The other agreement which was entered into between Lee and Collier Counties was for the landscape maintenance of that portion of Bonita Beach Road. Again, the older agreements are referenced. The need for the landscaping and the agreement to provide the landscaping is mentioned. And then the agreement is basically that Lee County will perpetually maintain -- and maintain the median -- manage and maintain the median on Bonita Beach Road from Vanderbilt Drive to Hickory Boulevard and that the agreement will be looked at every ten years for cost- estimate review and that if, in fact, an alternate funding source such as an MSTU or MSBU is found, that that would terminate this agreement. The agreement further goes on to state that Collier and Lee Page 40 April 11, 2001 County will equally fund the actual maintenance cost, which at the time the agreement was entered into was estimated to be $70,000 per year. Basically we'll write your check for our share, and you-all will do the maintenance on it. If -- if we find after an audit in a year when expenditures don't reach that amount, the money will roll over. If, on the other hand, there are additional expenditures not covered by that, we can at the staff level under this agreement increase our share up to 25 percent. Anything over 25 percent has to go back to the board for ratification. And then, finally, we -- we find that there is a -- a clause in here that says if one county can't or won't fund the -- the commitment of the project funds, the other county can go ahead and do it on their own. And up to this point, that hasn't been necessary, and we don't anticipate that it will be. And then Lee County has to furnish us a copy of their billing records so we can write them a check. That hasn't happened yet. It's a -- it's a check that's written in arrears, so we're -- and I can't give you what the status is of the last year's check yet, what the billing is. That's been in effect since 1990 -- excuse me. I said '98. I meant '97, July of '97. The road -- last time I rode the road it looks very nice. There's -- there's been some -- some very good maintenance being done on it. And if there are any questions as far as these agreements, I'll try to answer them for you. I'm not an attorney, but I can talk to you about the technical issues. MAYOR PASS: Miss Fiala. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you. Noisy, isn't it. This is Donna Fiala. Yes. I just wanted to know if the landscaped design plan will be contiguous from Collier to Lee County. MR. KANT: That is within the purview of the Lee County -- Page 41 April 11, 2001 under this agreement, Lee County is taking the lead in that. I can't tell you if they're using the same landscape architect. Our experience has been, as we move from one section of prop -- of road to another that we try to maintain a certain thematic aspect to it. I know that in Collier County one of the things that we have begun to do, since we have -- right now we've got almost 50 miles of landscaped medians with about 10 miles a year coming on board. What we've begun to do is look at each of our major corridors to make sure that you get some type of consistency with the landscaping along that corridor. But I -- I can't give you a specific answer to that question this morning, Commissioner. I can look it up and -- and get back to you. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you. MAYOR PASS: Do you know -- Paul Pass. Along those same lines -- and, Tom, I'm going to kind of direct this at you. We have -- we -- we're about done with the Bonita Beach Road corridor study. We felt as a council very strongly that the integrity -- that's our main entrance off 1-75. The integrity of that corridor is paramount to -- to our community. And as we get to Vanderbilt Drive, the south side of the road then is in Collier County. And, of course, anything that -- that we would do would only be for the north side of the street. We would like for you to consider to have a look at when this corridor study is done. It's about -- now, to look at it and see if this may be consistent with your -- find common consistencies within your comp. Plan and that if you feel that may be the thing for the north end of Collier County up there also implement and maybe adopt this corridor plan for that section also. It's very -- the integrity of that place is just architecturally -- what's going to go there is really, really important to us. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Mayor Pass, I agree. And, in fact, Page 42 April 11, 2001 I'm looking at Norman Feder because we're doing a corridor study on Vanderbilt which comes up there. You're doing the one on Bonita. It would be a good chance to lock these two together, make sure we have consistency in plans. It's excellent. Let's make sure we coordinate that one. MAYOR PASS: Robert. COUNCILMAN WAGNER: I've got a question concerning the maintenance of Bonita Beach Road on the Collier side from Vanderbilt to the west. That is Collier County's responsibility as a see -- MR. KANT: No, sir. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No, sir. COUNCILMAN WAGNER: Then whose responsibility is it for the maintenance of that area ? MR. KANT: Under the Lee -- interlocal agreement that I just pointed out to you, Lee County is doing the maintenance for that Bonita Beach Road. Collier County is doing Vanderbilt Drive. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We write a check, and they do the work; is that right? MR. KANT: Only for the landscape -- only for the landscape maintenance, Commissioner. The basic road maintenance, Lee County has agreed to do that, as we have agreed to maintain both east and west side of Vanderbilt Drive. To give you an example, from north of the Audubon Country Club north to Bonita Beach Road, the east half of Vanderbilt Drive is within Lee County. But we -- we mow it and we clean it up and we clean out the pipes and what have you. The other agreement that I pointed to you -- that I spoke to, which is the landscape maintenance agreement, that's the one where we write them the check. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. MR. KANT: And that's for the landscaping maintenance. As Page 43 April 11, 2001 far as the basic road maintenance, roadway drainage, curbing, sweeping, that type of thing -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: So we traded roadsides on this one, but it -- but it remains Lee's responsibility? MR. KANT: Yes, ma'am. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Okay. COUNCILMAN WAGNER: I got one -- one last question concerning the maintenance of Bonita Beach Road, which that's my district. And I consider it tantamount that this be kept clean, landscaped, edged, and so forth. Basically that's not being done, and I was under the misapprehension, evidently, that the Collier side was being maintained by Collier. And, just for the record, you're saying that is Lee County's responsibility, even though the boundaries are in Collier County; am I correct? MR. KANT: That's correct, Councilman, and I will be pleased to pass that comment along to my counterpart in Lee County, but that's -- oh, I'm sorry. MR. GILBERTSON: Scott Gilbertson, Lee County DOT. Yes, sir. That's our maintenance responsibility. We have started street sweeping program now throughout the county now basically on the -- the arterials in the county that have curb and gutter sections. That has gone through a couple cycles. Edging we do not routinely do except along bike paths. We do that on a quarterly basis. We are looking at an enhancement to our mowing operation, and the grass clippings that end up in the gutter will be a budget request for our next budget year for an enhancement to address that issue. And the mowing, now we get into the growing season, will be -- once every three weeks is our normal frequency, arterial roadways like that. The landscaping itself is done by the contractor. They have to go through on a quarterly basis and -- and take care of dead branches, dead plants, that type of stuff. Page 44 April 11, 2001 And there are items in there for -- for remulching, doing pesticides, and -- and fertilizing and those types of things, and they -- they go through there on a monthly basis. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Mr. Mayor, while we're on the subject of maintenance and landscaping, there's always a question of litter. Do we have uniform ordinances? We probably do. How do we enforce them? Nobody knows. And what programs do we have that -- that all -- that the counties and cities could work on collectively in that respect? MAYOR PASS: Yeah. That -- that's a good comment, Dr. Carter. We have a -- a -- I know within the city. We have -- the county provides on Bonita Beach Road, in specific, some litter maintenance. And the Lee County Sheriff's Department, we've had the people in the orange jumpsuits down a bunch of times, a bunch of times, probably a dozen times in the last year or better. They've been -- the sheriff's department has been very cooperative doing that. And then we -- we paid a firm about a month ago to do some cleaning up and edging, you know, to step up to the plate to keep the integrity of that Bonita Beach Road corridor intact to make it look like something. And we're looking at enhancing that corridor. We want it to be the best entrance corridor off 1-75 it can be. MR. KANT: In Collier County, Mr. Mayor, and Councilpersons, Commissioners, we do not have a dedicated funding source for litter pickup or trash pickup. We have not had for many years. Difficult to fund something which is plausibly illegal, but -- well, I mean the action is illegal, so why fund the pickup of it. But what we do -- and I'm sure that what your contractors -- and I'm sure what they do in Lee County is prior -- when they go through and do a mowing, we have to pick up in front of the mowers because we don't want to throw anything from the mowers that might injure someone or hurt the Page 45 April 11, 2001 machinery. So we do the pickup. We also -- we also get some inmate help, although we were just informed about a week ago that we will not be getting any from Hendry Correctional this year because they simply don't have the manpower to watch over them. And then we also have some contracted mowing on our rural areas that they use the big growth trimmers and the big brush hogs (sic), and they don't -- they don't do such a good job of picking up. And we do have to go up and get some of the large pieces in advance. One of the biggest problems we have is, with litter, we did an analysis. And if I were to fully fund a litter crew, which would consist of a large truck, a crew leader and three people -- we have to have at least three, two for the actual pickup and one just for traffic control around him -- it would cost us close to a quarter of a million dollars a year. And so the -- the issue there is not just the funding, but there's a policy issue and philosophy behind whether or not you want to do this or find another way to do it. COMMISSIONER CARTER: My understanding, Mr. Kant, we don't have -- we have enough inmates, but we don't have enough people to supervise the inmates. COMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, what about -- MR. KANT: That's the information we have, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: We need to talk to our sheriff. Apparently, in -- in Lee County they-- MR. KANT: He does have a program for that, but that's a weekend program only. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Oh, okay. See, I -- I thought that we had -- I think that the -- our county's sheriff could expand that program because I think that there's much more -- I understand they have to be convicted. It can't be just arrested, awaiting trial. But I wish that we could work with our sheriff and put some Page 46 April 11, 2001 pressure on him, frankly, to get -- expand the availability of -- of inmates for -- MR. KANT: One of the -- we've been talking about that, and one of the issues that keeps coming up is that there are only certain classes or types, I guess, that they can do that with because, again, you're basically taking them out, putting them on the road. Some people tend to walk away. I do want to point out, and as Mr. Feder just reminded me, one of the most successful programs that we have had in this area and that we have been asked to provide information as a model on is our adopt-a-road program. I believe Lee County also has an adopt-a-road program. We have -- right now we're pushing about 80 sponsors. We do it in -- in mile or 2-mile segments. We provide the vests, the pickup sticks, the bags, and then we go out on a -- they do it on a Saturday. We go out on a Monday morning, pick up all the bags. And the -- the disheartening thing about it is that they'll go out, and these people will spend the better part of their Saturday volunteering picking this stuff out. We go out, pick the bags up, and by Monday afternoon you wonder if they were ever out there. It's a darned shame. MAYOR PASS: John. COMMISSIONER ALBION: John Albion. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. You know, it seems like if they have the inmate potential to do the work, they just don't have the people to supervise them, one of the things that we should at least be looking at, if we want to look at litter control, might be what would the dollars cost to obviously provide the manpower to get those inmates out there versus the cost of doing it on a regular commercial lease. I mean, you know, let's be realistic. There's a resource there that needs to be put to use so that our citizens' quality of life is not adversely affected. And that may be a way for us to consider Page 47 April 11, 2001 jointly doing something that could be very beneficial. Boy, I know all up and down 1-75 it can always use it. MAYOR PASS: David. Wait, I got a whole bunch -- I'm going to go David, then Donna, then Jay, and then -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Tom. MAYOR PASS: -- Tom. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, gosh. MAYOR PASS: I'll keep it all -- I'm trying to keep my little running tab here who's next. Go ahead. COUNCILMAN PIPER: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. David Piper, councilman, Bonita Springs. I'm new at all this politics, but one thing I like to think about is, instead of being reactive is that we can be proactive. And when we talk about finances -- finances and budgets, that's something we're all concerned with, and this is huge numbers. So I have an idea maybe we can explore. We have in -- a regional issue here, and it's very evident. And one of the problems that I have noticed in my own city is that we're very mum -- multicultural, and there's people who do not even know what "Do Not Litter, $150 Fine" means. So maybe we can come up with a universal sign that has a hand with a piece of trash being thrown away from it a couple inches with an 'X" through it and then in more than one language. The most prom -- prominent language is probably Spanish and English and maybe German, and it would say underneath it that it would be $150 fine. I know this to be a fact because I've traveled Bonita Beach Road, and right after we had a service paid to clean it, I saw vehicle after vehicle of multicultural people throwing trash out because I really don't believe that they're accustomed to the ways that our laws are. MAYOR PASS: That's a good idea. Donna. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I -- Donna Fiala. I have a Page 48 April 11, 2001 suggestion: How about litter fines paying for litter collection? MAYOR PASS: I think -- that's a good idea. The enforcement of that is what probably the challenge is going to be because then you have to pay for the enforcement of it, and your fines may not cover the enforcement alone. COMMISSIONER FIALA: There might be more of an initiative, an incentive, to -- to -- to issue tickets when they know that that money is going to go to prompting the collection. And there might be less of an incentive to throw things out when you know that the heat is on to issue tickets. MR. KANT: I might point out, Commissioner, that one of our departmental policies has for a number of years been that when we do see someone, when we catch them, we get a truck number, we get a name. First they get a phone call giving them the date, the time, the place of the offense and informing them that they will be getting a bill. We do send the bill out, and we have had -- we've been very fortunate in our collection efforts. I say fortunate because when we're dealing with some of the commercial trucking companies, they can't afford to lose their license. MAYOR PASS: Thank you. Vice Mayor Arend. MR. AREND: Vice Mayor Arend, City of Bonita Springs. First of all, I want to comment the niceties everybody gives Mayor Pass. Generally when we want his attention, we just slap him aside the head. I'm sure he appreciates that. However, as stated, the -- the Bonita Beach corridor is so important to Bonita Springs. And I'm sitting here listening to all of this. And I'm thinking that perhaps we need to consider taking over the maintenance of this road because I don't think anybody's going to do it to the specs that we wanted it done at. And -- and, in all fairness to everybody, that's just the way we feel about the road. So I would ask both the counties to keep an Page 49 April 11, 2001 open mind and possibility that that become our responsibility some day. MAYOR PASS: That's a good thought. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Henning from Collier. For the record, I picked up what Commissioner Albion commented on. And if we don't have enough law enforcement for the jail -- jailers in Hendry County, then it probably would be a good thing to look at and to -- funding that, staff levels, so they can get out there and pick up. So I hope that's something that we can look at as part of our litter control in Collier County. MAYOR PASS: Any other comments? Thank you. Go down to -- Gary, do you got something else you want to add? MR. PRICE: Yeah. With regard to that zoning overlay study which we're -- not yet available, I -- I sort of see everybody shaking their head yes that we should try to work with Collier County on -- MAYOR PASS: Absolutely. MR. PRICE: -- that one-mile section west of -- MAYOR PASS: And -- and to get it to Mr. Olliff's office and have them review it and see if Collier County may consider adopting that so that we can make a consistent corridor there. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Commissioner Mac'Kie. Just real quickly to tell you, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think our whole board is nodding. But just to say it on the record, we want to support your efforts, and -- and I can't imagine why we wouldn't just adopt it as part of our plan as part of the intergovernmental coordination. That's exactly what we're supposed to be doing. So get it to us, and let us try to be as cooperative as we can. MAYOR PASS: Great. Okay. Page 50 April 11, 2001 We'll go down to Item E here, the transfer of passengers between transit systems. MR. HOPE: Good morning, Commissioners. And, for the record, David Hope, Collier County public transportation manager. CAT is in our second month of operations as of the 15th of this month. I think it's going quite well. We've had done over 7,000 trips in a month on six routes and within Collier County one of which meets with Lee Tran at the center of Bonita Shopping Center. I also want to take just a moment and thank some of the staff at -- at Lee Tran, Mr. Myers and Mr. Lefferts, for helping out on many occasions with information on grants and working with us on getting transfers set up and everything else. So I just wanted to take the time to thank them for that. It was a long time coming to get transit in Collier County. Again, it has gone very well. We're pleased with that. We do have the six routes, the northernmost one of which is the Bonita Springs transfer location. We go into Immokalee once a day as well. And we'll be looking to, perhaps, expand in the future. We're a bit unique in that Collier County's transit is funded entirely by federal and state dollars, and no local funds are used to provide transit in Collier. Any future expansion would require additional funding for additional routes, hours, whatever type of service. That's how transit works in Collier. Again, the transfer location is at the center of Bonita Shopping Center. I'll be real brief, so any questions on any of that? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Well, just -- may I? MAYOR PASS: Go ahead. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I think the reason or I -- I hope the reason this is on the list is to ask if Lee County would work with us to allow this to be a connection point so that people can Page 51 April 11, 2001 traverse both ways instead of just getting to Bonita Springs, which is a wonderful place to get and stop, but sometimes they need to go on up into Fort Myers. And that would be -- it would be good if we could have the ability to transfer from one system to the other. MR. HOPE: That is possible now. The bus stop at the center of Bonita right behind Arby's, we both meet there. We meet at eight o'clock in the morning and five and seven in the afternoon. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: And what about access, then, to FGCU? Is that the opportunity for our Collier students to use -- can they use the system to get to the university? MR. HOPE: Yes, ma'am. They can board, again, Lee Tran at eight o'clock in the morning, trip going north. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Excellent. COMMISSIONER CARTER: So -- I'm sorry. MAYOR PASS: Go ahead, Jim. COMMISSIONER CARTER: My -- you know, I had asked for this to be put on the agenda because I was looking for the connection point and then a fee arrangement so you could transfer from either Lee to Collier or Collier to Lee. So I guess what I'm hearing is that we can do that. All we have to do is work out a fee and publicize it so people can know they can get between the counties. MR. HOPE: Yes, sir. That would be correct. MR. JUDAH: Ray Judah, Lee County commissioner. This is really a timely issue because -- I don't know. Steve Myers or Bill Hammond might be able to comment, but there's a recent study done for Lee County with regards to evaluating routes and how we can best coordinate these routes to be more cost effective and more efficient. And it appears, unfortunately, that because of the lack of ridership in Bonita Springs that we're looking to severely restricting or cutting it back entirely. So this really is a Page 52 April 11, 2001 timely issue. I don't know if Bill Hammond wishes to comment at this time or at least get a full response from Steve Myers, our Lee Tran director. MR. HAMMOND: Bill Hammond with Lee County. Steve Myers is in Tallahassee right now. But I -- I -- guess we would comment a little bit. We are going to bring together or to the board the Cutter study which the 150 route is being looked at. And you're right; ridership is weak. But we're -- we're -- we're more than glad to sit down and discuss, you know, what it means if-- if we had to cut back on that route. But at this point the Commissioner's right. Ridership does not look real heavy in that area. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: May I, if I could, just -- Pam Mac'Kie. MAYOR PASS: Yeah. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: -- and request that before a decision is made on that point, perhaps in conjunction with Collier County, if we could do some kind of promotion for the ability -- I mean, if people think that may not be a well-used route if it's the end of the route for Lee County. It might be a better used connection to go farther south -- forgive me, but before you make a decision to eliminate or drastically reduce that route, I wish that we could have an experiment, at least a period of time where we promote it as an intra -- intercounty route and see if that might increase the ridership before we give it up. MAYOR PASS: Mr. Hammond, I think the -- the Cutter study was done before the CAT system came on board; is that correct? MR. HAMMOND: I believe so, yes. MAYOR PASS: So this could -- this could affect the number there of the ridership. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Because this is so important, I think, for FGCU. It's so important for our ability -- for our Page 53 April 11, 2001 students to get to the university. And for our regional issues as a whole, it would be a shame for us finally to get on line with the transit system and then for it to stop at the county line. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Donna Fiala. And work force as well. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right. MR. HAMMOND: We are going to present the study within the next month. And certainly we have some time to -- to take a look at it, not a lot of time because we're -- we're pretty much faced with the same situation that we had last year in the way of cost and -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: My request is -- MR. HAMMOND: -- we'll be taking a hard look at that. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: My request would be before you make a decision to eliminate a route, you give our staff the opportunity to propose something to us, to Collier County, that maybe we do some of the expense of promoting this as an intercounty connection and, you know, you try to hang in there with us for a little while while we try to get our system going better. MAYOR PASS: Councilman Ben Nelson. COUNCILMAN NELSON: Yes. Ben Nelson. I think before we start cutting routes, I think that we need to -- to try to get people to use this, and there's got to be some way that you can ask the people who would use this why they're not. It could be as simple as the time of day. And if -- if the students need to be at classes at eight o'clock, they're not going to use the tran system that's going to pick them up at eight o'clock. So I think that a little thought needs to be put into that because, I mean, this ties into all these traffic issues we've been talking about. We need to make it to where it's -- it's a better resource for the people. I think that it may be part of your study does address that. I think Page 54 April 11, 2001 we've got to do more. MR. HAMMOND: Well, let me say that Mr. Hope and Mr. Myers do talk, and we certainly will continue those conversations. So we -- we do have some time. But we're getting into the budget season, so we're going to be taking a hard look at that. MAYOR PASS: Councilman Arend. MR. AREND: Yeah, Councilman Arend. Along with what Ben is saying, have we ever thought about the possibility -- I know in - - in Lee County we have Good Wheels, and I'm sure Collier County has something similar to that. But it -- it seems unusual to me that we have Good Wheels running from Bonita Beach on up to Fort Myers with one or two passengers on it when I would think that we could coordinate something to where Good Wheels would pick these people up in Bonita, get them to Lee Tran, Lee Tran takes them to a point in Fort Myers where Good Wheels again picks them up and delivers them to where they need to go. I just wonder if that has a way to increase ridership and cut costs. So I would ask both counties keep their minds open on something like that. MAYOR PASS: Councilman -- I'm -- I'm going to ask Commissioner Judah to comment on -- he's chairman of the transportation disadvantaged committee out of the MPO. MR. JUDAH: Ray -- Ray Judah, Lee County Commission. It's a marvelous thought, but unfortunately the special needs for many of these very important people that need transportation, that just wouldn't be feasible. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Pam Mac'Kie -- just -- for Collier. It might be, though, in Collier because I think our system is equipped -- we have -- they're wheelchair accessible, they -- we have the facility to carry the wheelchairs, you know, if -- if it's a handicapped kind of an issue, it might work on the southern Page 55 April 11, 2001 connection if it doesn't work on the northern. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Commissioner Carter. Maybe -- maybe I propose this; that the transportation people in the counties and the city might sit down and brainstorm and work on this. I know we're getting into budget time, but I keep thinking of all the seniors who often come to me and say they want to know more about the public transportation system. If they even had some shuttle services to the bus stops where there are people, five or six of them at a time could get on go up to Lee or come down to Collier. I don't think we've done a good job of integrating what a lot of people, potential users, could -- at how they could use the transit system. They don't know enough about it. We don't have enough scheduling identified. We don't know what the ridership might be out of these groups. I would just hope we could have a good focus group that could work on that before we have to do some of these other things. So may I suggest that both to the council, to the Lee commission, and to our own staff in Collier that we find a way to take the proper people, put them together, focus on it, and then come back with some sort of status reports to the respective boards. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Yeah. And understanding this budget, we know we have to do it fast, but let's please work on it together. MAYOR PASS: John. COMMISSIONER ALBION: John Albion, Lee County. First of all, I mean, I appreciate the creativity of Good Wheels portion. But recognize when you get someone to the bus stop, they're going to get to another bus stop, and that may not be at the doctor's office. So, therefore, you have to coordinate that. It's a whole 'nother element. A lot of the cost has to be just in the time of going to get somebody, much less delivering them to where they need to go. So there are a number of -- of problems Page 56 April 11, 2001 just procedural with that, for one, as well as acceptance which is a whole 'nother level. But the other issue is that we need to make the Collier County Commission aware. We actually had to dip into our budgets last year to find over $800,000 to keep our bus system going. That's the concern we ran into as to why we had to use the Cutter study. We were spending as much as over $20 per passenger on -- for bus service for some of the areas that we were providing service to it. And it gets to a point where, literally, based upon people's willingness or desire to live in rural areas, our ability to provide bus service was prohibited. So maybe -- let's maybe talk about if we can narrow it down to certain points that would be of concern between the counties and see what can work. But, candidly, that number isn't going down next year for us. If anything, it's going up. So we really have some budgetary constraints that are -- that I think you need to be made aware of. So time is of the essence, and we're going to have to really effectively work towards making those decisions. And I agree with Councilman Nelson. What we can do to try to promote, etc., should always be in -- as it takes place because people are moving in and out of our area all the time. But I think we're going to have to really look at some point of supply and demand to try to make sure we're getting the maximum benefit out of these buses and not having some prohibitive costs that literally sometimes taxis can deliver people cheaper. MAYOR PASS: Thank you, Bill. MR. HAMMOND: Thank you. MAYOR PASS: Any other discussion on the transit system? All right. We go down to Item F, coordination efforts regarding state, federal funding, I see Mr. Feder at the podium again. Page 57 April 11, 2001 MR. FEDER: Yes, for the record, Norman Feder. First of all, on the transit I'll just add another item. As you look at one for each route, you only have early morning, late afternoon coordination that people have more looked at more marketing, of course, but maybe that route could be reduced and yet still maintain that service, so as instructed, I'm sure the staffs will get together and we'll try to bring something back to you. I wanted to just expand on some of the discussions on the excellent discussions I've heard today about our need to look at these issues regionally. More and more of the funding on the federal and the state level, and the federal to be looked at very shortly again, is being done on a needs basis. Basically what that means is it doesn't come to you geographically; it comes to you only if you can establish a specific need and your ability to express that need, get people's attention, and get action from that. I think there has been some very, very good examples of that. I know Lee has shared their efforts on the infrastructure bank program, very successful. We're looking for that this cycle, as I know they are as well. Both of us were very, very successful on the first outing on the county center, the grant program. That is coming up very shortly in May for us, the new applications on that. And I think probably both of us, while we do -- while Livingston Road -- are going to find it a little bit harder this time since we did so well last time, that that's not a reason not to go after it and go after it aggressively. The TOPS program, Lee County has some important projects in there we're looking at in the next cycle. And hopefully it exists and it will exist, not only to fund these that are already in there, but the other projects that are brought up by Collier and Lee for the next cycle. The point I wanted to raise here is the importance of this group continuing to talk about the transportation issues that are Page 58 April 11, 2001 regional and to work together in that coordination and communications and efforts to go after it. I think some folks have said it well, that I'm going to say right now already, and that is the fact that if we don't do it together, we're not going to get those funds down to this area. We need to constantly be assisting a regional road activity, and one portion of Southwest Florida is as important to the others. I know Mike Griffith of Florida DOT agrees with me on that. He's trying to assist all of us in just that kind of effort as well. But I just want to enter, this one note, that we got projects out there. We need to be coordinating that as we go after efforts. We need to expand our efforts in Tallahassee individually and collectively, as well as in Washington, when we go to a new federal program. I don't know what the new euphemism will be. Last time it was high-priority projects but, nonetheless, there seems to be more of those euphemistic applications of funds as - - as each new federal goes past, so we've got to be up there yelling for our needs. That's all I wanted to raise. MAYOR PASS: Commissioner Mac'Kie. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Pam Mac'Kie. One of the things that I'm -- have been talking about in -- in our county is what I see is a need for professional lobbying in Tallahassee and also in Do either of Could you -- D.C., particularly on transportation funding issues. you employ a professional lobbyist in either venue? someone share that? MAYOR PASS: Go ahead, John. COMMISSIONER ALBION: John Albion, Lee County employees, Blair Arnold -- Keith Arnold is a former state representative, majority leader at one time in the house, and -- so that's who we use in Tallahassee. We went through a bid process and determined on Blair Arnold, by the way. As far as Washington goes, I know our port authority has Page 59 April 11, 2001 lobbyists up in Washington because of the whole expansion of the airport issue. We do not use any other lobbyist up there at this point. So there may be some consideration there. I will say to you, though, is that maybe one way that would be of real benefit -- there is a group that definitely hits all three of these areas that can be of great importance and that's Southwest Florida Transportation known as SWFTI. They are very well respected in Tallahassee, and they've earned that respect. And they're certainly very well respected, I know, in Lee County. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Certainly in Collier. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Right. COMMISSIONER ALBION: It would seem to me coordinate with SWFTI that perhaps one member from each of these boards is to make sure to be on or involved with the SWFTI group and that to have -- therefore we will necessarily have that ongoing conversation about transportation issues because there are times when they're finding out issues or finding out opportunities even in advance of what we're finding out candidly because of their connections, then we have all of our connections, and that's a very effective approach. And that's one way when you start spreading the -- the groups that are involved in these issues, you spread the information. It's amazing what we can make happen. But they've been a great group, so I would recommend that perhaps if everyone would be in agreement, the chairman of each commission and the mayor perhaps consider appointing someone as an actual liaison from our boards and let them meet regularly and let them work and, frankly, use SWFTI to get some of this coordination to occur. And I would hope that FDOT would also continue to participate in that process. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Just to -- I appreciate that you guys have -- that you have that same respect for SWFTI that I think we certainly have, and we appreciate their already bringing Page 60 April 11, 2001 home the bacon for us, which is the bottom line. I wonder if, in addition to individual counties and cities having lobbyists if there aren't transportation issues in particular where we're not competing with each other but that we get more bang for the buck if we are seeking funding on a regional basis for a lot of our transportation and, therefore, we should be employing a lobbyist jointly, both in Tallie, and I think in D.C., it would be well-served. I would love to look at that. I know in some places we are competing for the same funds, but in those cases where we could join efforts, have one application instead of two smaller competing ones, we'd be better off and -- and perhaps employ professional assistance to lobby that for us. MAYOR PASS: There are, after my -- last week being up in Tallahassee for the first time while the legislature was in session, I -- it's going to come up at a city council -- the next city council's discussing that issue about hiring a professional lobbyist. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Got it. MAYOR PASS: Because it is a -- for lack of a better description, I think it's a moss pit with neckties and suits. You get in between these two powers. It's filled with lobbyists, attorneys; it's something else to -- to experience. It's a real learning experience in there. And to have someone who's there all the time and -- and literally knows the lay of the land and -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Works it. MAYOR PASS: -- geography and works that is going to be beneficial to everyone involved. Mr. Janes. MR. JANES: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just would also kind of reemphasize the need for professional representation at the -- perhaps, at the state and for -- I mean, perhaps at the federal level as well as the state. But I also want to say that -- and to reemphasize or emphasize how it is im -- how important it Page 61 April 11, 2001 is for us as individuals to take on that role. And I tell you, our legislators are happy to see us up there when they're toiling away in splendid isolation. They like to see some of the hometown folks. But I will also say that when the legislative session is over and they are back in town, we need to involve them a little bit more deeply in some of the problems that we are facing so that when they go up to Tallahassee, they're aware of our concerns about specific problems. And I think we can work together on a coordinated approach on that quite effectively. COMMISSIONER CARTER: I would agree, Commission -- Commissioner Albion. You and I have talked about this, how important it is to get lobbyists and how to work with each political party. And that's -- that's key. And that's the strategy we all have to work under. You're right; it's a moss pit up there, and you've got to work on both sides because you never know where you can get your votes to swing, when you need, once it's on the floor, for the floor for the house or the senate. MAYOR PASS: Dr. Merwin. DR. MERWIN: Yeah. Mayor Pass, I'm Bill Merwin, the president of Florida Gulf Coast University. Let me just say that I'm quite impressed with all this. This whole concept of regionality is near and dear to my heart personally and professionally, and the mission of our university is that it -- it is, in fact, to bring these counties of Southwest Florida together on critical issues, issues of health, issues of education, issues of work-force development and now government, I think are terribly important. Bob Janes said a few moments ago that we need to continue this, as I think others have. I would love to host this group at the university after the legislative session. And it seems to me that we ought to invite our legislative delegation to such a meeting as that. Transportation is, and it will continue to Page 62 April 11, 2001 be, very, very important to our university. We anticipate that we'll be somewhere between twelve and fifteen thousand students. We're 3700 today by 2010, so as we talk about 951, as we talk about Metro and Treeline and all the north, west, south extensions, including the interstate, those are extraordinarily important for the common good. And I consider what we are doing there common good. And also for -- something has been mentioned is hurricane evacuation from some of those barrier islands. I think we can -- we probably all need to consider that one as well, which we may not want to. I appreciate your invitation for me to come here today. MAYOR PASS: Thank you. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: If I could just say thank you -- well, yes, let's do it. I mean, what a wonderful idea. We should -- we should absolutely take you up on that and -- and maybe use even the mediation group that you have going to -- to get us working on a regular basis for how we can work well together. DR. MERWIN: That would be an excellent idea. I'll repeat that, I think. We also have the institute -- the Florida Institute of Government is on our campus, and we have a branch of that. They could very well sponsor an ongoing set of dialogues as well. But I would really like to just host this group, the people who are here today, and the legislative delegation, perhaps, sometime in June or maybe early June, something like that. Perhaps I should work with Mayor Pass to coordinate this. Your leadership, here, I -- I think has been very important, Paul. COMMISSIONER CARTER: Commiss -- this is Commissioner Carter. Dr. Merwin, I understand that there is a -- a briefing of our delegation of Collier in June, and I don't know how that ties together, but I was going to suggest at the end today to these three governing bodies that we meet again in October so that we could strategize and work together prior to the legislature Page 63 April 11, 2001 getting ready to go back to work in the year 2002. And I think it would be excellent if you would host that meeting at least in October. I don't know what's going to happen with the situation in June. I don't know how far along that planning is. I think those people need to coordinate with you, sir. DR. MERWIN: Okay. Thank you very much. MAYOR PASS: I see Mike Rippe walking up here to the podium. I had him down here next. I was going to call him up here unexpectedly, and I was going to have him give us a brief update on the U.S. 41 project because we really haven't talked to that at all before we left transportation. But Michael -- John. COMMISSIONER ALBION: I just wanted to -- I forgot to mention, SWFTI also does have a lobbyist that is working on the regional issues. Wayne Mellenby (phonetic) is the key guy on that. He's a member of a law firm with John Beck who is, I believe, former counsel, just so you're aware, Collier County, with some of the issues, if it involves transportation, again, SWFTI is another resource, they do have a paid lobbyist that's working on some of these issues. MAYOR PASS: Mike. MR. RIPPE: Thank you, Mayor Pass, council members, commissioners, staff. For the record, my name is Mike Rippe, Florida DOT. That's R-i-p-p-e. I love it when I come to a meeting like this and we see so much transportation and the willingness of all parties, both counties and the city and the county, to work together. These issues that we face are regional issues. The Regional Planning Council is an excellent arena for us to do that, but I think working outside of the arena as you're doing right now is definitely a step -- step in the right direction. 1-75 is not the sole answer. We have to get the 951 developed, the Three Oak Parkway, Livingston Roads. Working Page 64 April 11, 2001 together as a transportation network with these north-south and subsequent east-west corridors I think that we can solve some of the transportation challenges that we have today. Just a little update on where we stand. We have a lot of improvements going on -- on the way that the -- a breeze on 1-75. I'm going to go with Commissioner Carter's words: Be -- be brief - COMMISSIONER CARTER: Be brief. MR. RIPPE: -- be gone, I think is the statement. Collier County, as part of their Pine Ridge Road improvements, is working -- is actually doing some interchange improvements at 1-75. We appreciate that. They're also having an Immokalee Road project coming up that will also include some improvements to 1-75 interchange there. Here in Lee County, 1-75, Bonita Beach Road will be started on that improvement this summer. That's over a $1 million project, to improve the interchange there, will include signalization of the west side of the interchange also. We'll be putting new signals up on the east side. We're going to be doing a lot of ramp improvements with that. State Road 80 and 1-75, Palm Beach Boulevard and also State Road 78 which is Bayshore Road, we have interim improvements that have been let to bid, and we'll begin shortly on those two. As most of you are aware, we have the engineering environmental study or PD&Es study underway for 1-75. We have URS and Post, Buckley doing the Lee County portion. Parsons, Brinker, Hall (phonetic) is doing the Collier portion. We're currently developing our future-year traffic right now. We have got all the existing traffic data in. We've got origin and destination studies, and we'll be developing that future-year traffic that will be utilized to look at what the ultimate section will be at of 1-75. We're going to be having a lot of public Page 65 April 11, 2001 meetings. We'll be meeting with the city council, the county commissions also giving you briefings and updates, and we encourage all parties to come out and give input. This is the time when you're in this -- this stage. This is the time to -- to mold the corridor and what you want it to look like in the future and what it needs to accommodate. So that's very important. As far as U.S. 41, we have two major projects underway down in -- actually in Commissioner Carter's district that go from north of Pine Ridge Road, if you will, up to Old 41. We're hoping to be completed with those two major projects the beginning of this -- this next calendar year, 2002. Marching our way north, we have the project from -- COMMISSIONER CARTER: Before season, right, Mike? MR. RIPPE: We're hoping to have the project significantly completed before next season. The next project is marching our way up into Lee County from Old 41 in Collier County up to the Lee-Collier line, and then from the Lee-Collier line up to north Bonita Beach Road. We're working on the design on both of those projects. Construction is funded in fiscal year 2002 -2003 for those two projects. They will more than likely be let together, just as we did the two projects down in Commissioner Carter's area. So that will bring you up to north of Bonita Beach Road. We currently have design underway for the Imperial River Bridge. That's the good news. The bad news is we currently don't have anything funded for construction for the five-year work program for the Imperial River Bridge. We have pursued -- set up a state infrastructure bank loan for that project, and we're looking to look at all other available funding categories also to try to get that thing -- get it constructed. From north of Imperial River, Old 41, we currently have that section -- segment under design. Construction is not funded for Page 66 April 11, 2001 that segment either. It was the Lee County MPO's number one roadway priority last year. We will be coming back to the MPOs, respective MPOs, very shortly for priorities. This year our cycle is going to be moved up. I think most of you are aware that they're now talking about the legislative session beginning in January, which is pushing our whole work program cycle up about two months. So where we normally come in July, on August to get priorities from respective MPOs, we'll probably be coming earlier for that. So that's something we're going to have to work with your staffs on to make sure -- I know the summertimes are a hard time to get meetings in. It's a heads up. From Old 41 up to Corkscrew, we have that segment under design right now. Construction is funded in the work program for fiscal year 2004 -2005. The segment from Corkscrew up to San Carlos Boulevard, we have the design funded in the work program, but we do not have the right-of-way access for construction of that segment up in Estero. The last segment that will tie us up, the six-laning -- it already have it -- up to Alico Road will be from San Carlos to Alico. That project is going to be starting shortly within the next two to three months to take that segment up to six lanes. So we got a lot of stuff going on. I'd just like to take a moment to thank you-all for -- the counties have grant programs. That's something that we control in the district. Lee and Collier County faired very well. Of the $27 million available for the first two years of that program, you got $17 million down here out of -- out of the 12-county district for a two-county area. That's not too bad. The transportation outreach program, I cannot say how much it has meant with all of the support that we've had. President Merwin, thank you. You're -- he's been highly Page 67 April 11, 2001 supportive. I know that the -- a lot of the commissioners and city councilpeople, and Mayor Pass, thank you for going up there. It makes a difference. It makes all of a difference. We are not a 800-pound gorilla. Grouped together I think we're a pretty mean 400-pound gorilla though. And I think our voices are being heard up in Tallahassee. The 16 million for Metro Extension, the 4 million for Treeline, it looks like we're still holding tight. $20 million is still a lot of money in my book. I just wanted to make one note also. We mentioned Southwest Florida Transportation Initiative. We work very closely with them. And they've been pretty much a God send to us to try to help bring transportation up and keep it as one of the top issues. They have requested that we hold a workshop, and we have graciously accommodated them. They're looking at April 25th. This is pretty much for the staff level, the -- the Norm Feders and Dawn Wolfes and the Scott Gilbertsons and Dave Lovelands, more so than elected officials. But we're looking at April 25th at the RPC offices. We're going to have some of our folks from Tallahassee coming down and talking about some of these discretionary pots, both state and federal, so that we can try to be as sharp locally as we can and take advantage of all those opportunities as much as we can. I wasn't as brief as I hoped to be, Commissioner Carter. I apologize, but if you have any questions -- if not, I will graciously exit. MAYOR PASS: Any questions for Mike? Thank you, Michael. I appreciate you coming in. I appreciate you coming, and we -- for those of you who don't know, Mike also comes and attends our little sessions that we have in -- in our conference room between our -- our counties and -- and the city so -- they are very fruitful meetings. Next we're going to go down to Item 3. I think we can Page 68 April 11, 2001 probably get through that, A, on renourishment coordination. MR. MUDD: Commissioners, city council. For the record, I'm -- I'm Jim Mudd, public utilities administrator for Collier County. COMMISSIONER CARTER: The mike's not on. MR. MUDD: Hello? Before Mike Griffith leaves, I want to make sure he doesn't go to Tallahassee and -- and get the B thing screwed up. It's 3 B's. It's "be brief, be brilliant, and be gone." Mike, you got the second one squared away, and the other two you got to work on. Beach renourishment coordination, basically you had interface between Mr. Gary Price, who is right to my left, and Harry Huber who is my project manager for beach renourishment. Just so that the forum knows, there is a beach and inlet convocation group that meets about every other month. The next meeting's on the 21st of May at ten o'clock in the Lee County public-works building. And that's where they basically make sure that there's a good set of coordination between -- between the beaches. In Collier County parks and recs are doing -- are doing two projects up by Barefoot Beach. One is to pave and strip the lot this next year, and the other one is to redeck the boardwalk. Close to the boundary between Bonita Springs and Collier we're going to dredge Wiggins Pass in November, and we're going to put beach disposal -- the disposal area is between Markers R-12 and R-13. That's about 2 miles away from the borderline. Areas for future opportunity for coordination between Bonita Springs and Collier County would be a regional sand search, where we can go out there and find out where the sand is for the next hydraulic dredging event. And the other thing is when we get ready or -- or we have a storm event, to work the sea grass cleanup together and do a better job so it's seamless between the two beaches. Gary? Page 69 April 11, 2001 MR. PRICE: Yeah. Incidentally, the Lee County Visitor and Convention Bureau has a fund for things like sea grass cleanup, and I don't know whether Collier has a similar type of -- of fund. But this is also one of the regional issues that we need to talk about. Transportation is not the only one. Beach management, beach renourishment is also a regional issue. It also seems to me like the next item, Mr. Mayor, if I can pursue, the no-take- seashell rule, I believe that the county commission just authorized their staff to seek the necessary state action, and I believe that I will be taking that back to my city council at the next meeting asking for their authorization. It does require the State Marine Fisheries Commission to authorize the local government to establish the rules. It seems to me like that's something like Collier County might want to consider too. It's kind of hard to explain to people while you can go down to a certain point, you can't take any live seashells when you step across some imaginary line in the sand and -- and the rules are completely different. That was the reason when the visitor and convention bureau came to -- to Bonita Springs to ask for our adoption of the rule, which has been adopted by Fort Myers Beach and Sanibel for a number of years, we suggested that they go to the county and ask the county to approve it also because there are going to be little patches of Lee County beaches that would not have those rules, and the county has authorized that, and I believe that my council will also. So it might be something that Collier County might want to consider. MAYOR PASS: Commissioner or Councilman Wagner had a question here on renourishment. COUNCILMAN WAGNER: It basically isn't a question. It's a proposal. Bonita Beach happens to be in my district, very dear to my heart, and I think it's very dear to my colleagues on city Page 70 April 11, 2001 council. It's the lifeblood of Collier County. It's the lifeblood of Lee County, and I can assure you it's the lifeblood of our city. Not only are the access points to the beach important that they be kept clean and maintained, but more importantly the maintenance of our beaches are tantamount, as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, each restoration is an expensive thing. However, it's an ongoing thing, and we better recognize it. What I'd like to propose today is the possibility of getting together with Lee County on future beach renourishment projects so both Lee County, Collier County, and the city coordinate their efforts in future beach renourishment projects. The dredge is probably 40 percent of the cost. Getting a dredge down here from wherever it is, Louisiana, sometimes they're even on the east coast of Florida, is an expensive thing. Whether we need beach renourishment at the -- at a given time for a given area, sometimes can be delayed for a year, if possible, and, in return, coordinate that with our county to the south, as well as the city. We may even look at the opportunity to lease a dredge jointly. What this will do is drastically reduce the cost to all three people. I, for one, would like to have an open dialogue with the person who's responsible in Lee County for the renourishment of your beaches and see if we can't do some joint efforts along that line. The importance of this I can't emphasize enough. People don't come down here to see our state-of-the-art prisons, nor do they see or want to come down here to see ex-Sheriff's John McDougall's tent city. They come down here for what I have said many times before, and that's the three S's-' We live and die by sand, sun, and surf. Take that away, make it unpleasant, there go your tax dollars, there go your tourist dollars. So it's important that we keep these beaches renourished at all times Page 71 April 11, 2001 and up to date. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: MAYOR PASS: Go ahead. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Commissioner Mac'Kie. I was just going to comment, I don't know the timing and when it was, but Collier County has a special act prohibiting collection of live shells and have had for some time. Does anybody know the time of it? MR. OLLIFF: At least five years. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: At least five years. So that's something the legislature did for us sometime, ago, so don't worry about the rules stopping at the county line. MAYOR PASS: Great. MR. BOUTELLE: Good morning. Steve Boutelle, Lee County Natural Resources Division. Right now I'm a point person for Lee County beach projects which we do coordinate throughout Lee County. And we are, in fact, trying to sequence our two major projects that are in permitting right now, being Estero Island and Gasparilla Island, so that hopefully we can take advantage of having one dredge, be in a vicinity to work both projects at the same time. There is a possibility that we can also get the Bonita Beach renourishment to a point where it will be ready to go before that dredge demobilizes. One of the problems that we'll need to continue to work on is on a permitting front. Some of the projects for beach renourishment in Lee County have windows where they are allowed to construct as short as four weeks, others as long as six months. There are currently no projects that are authorized to work throughout the entire year. We're trying to change that on some of our staff. But in terms of logistics, you end up in a situation where you can't necessarily sequence all those projects if you have a six-month downtime where a dredge can't work. They're not going to hang around here. They're going to be off to New Jersey or somewhere else. Page 72 April 11, 2001 That's one of the ma]or issues we need to continue to work on if that kind of thing could work. As far as the dredge leasing operation, I know that's one thing that the west coast inland navigation district has previously looked at, and they did update that study not too long ago. And at this point I believe they still found that that was not yet cost effective based on the demand and expected use of that type of equipment in consideration of the operating costs. COUNCILMAN WAGNER: Question. Councilman Robert Wagner. Steve, if we would include Collier County, as well as Lee, would the cost effectiveness be in order then, or is your -- the BCID, does -- have they done that just for Lee County? MR. BOUTELLE: The navigation district includes four counties from Manatee south through Lee. They do not currently include Collier County, so they did not consider that in their study, I don't believe. One of the other problems is that we need a different type of equipment to do a Captiva renourishment project versus a Bonita Beach renourishment project, and so it's not necessarily one size fits all. COUNCILMAN WAGNER: Oh, I understand that. And, in fact, I think Collier County needs a rock separator for their beaches. I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: No. COMMISSIONER CARTER: We do. We have a couple of people that work out there full time on that. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Actually -- and -- and, you know, I threatened to call this man for saying that, and you're the one who said it. MAYOR PASS: Yeah, she threatened me. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: What I -- what I did want to say is you're absolutely right, we got to coordinate when we're going to Page 73 April 11, 2001 have to hire this horrifically expensive equipment. We need to coordinate it if we possibly can. And all jokes aside about the bad experience we had, please have your staff coordinate with ours about just what can go wrong and the importance of the operator of that dredge. I mean, there's the source of our rock is if they -- the finesse that is required for this incredibly complicated and gigantic equipment is phenomenal, and the results, for lack of finesse, are horrific. So please have your guys talk to our guys before you get there. MAYOR PASS: Yeah. I -- I think as we get to going to the south end of the -- of Bonita Beach and the north end of-- of the Collier beach there, that we can time those renourishment projects to --just sweep right on down and don't stop going. And so that's going to be the one-size-fits-all piece of equipment, I think. Commissioner Judah. MR. JUDAH: Just real quick, because I can't resist the opportunity when we're talking about beaches. Unless there's a legal impediment, do you think there's a possibility that we could revisit the internal connection of both our beach parks relative to Collier-Lee County line? COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I would love that myself. I can't imagine what the legal impediment would be. I -- I can't remember, frankly, how that came about that we are connected, and it's probably best if we don't go back there, but -- but it's just too logical for words that they would be. MR. JUDAH: Do you think we could have our respective administrations -- COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I would support it. COMMISSIONER CARTER: I would support it. COMMISSIONER FIALA: I would too. COMMISSIONER CARTER: You got three. Page 74 April 11, 2001 MR. JUDAH: That would be wonderful. Then we could have a report to both the county commissions and council here and see if we can work even more closely together. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Thank you for not resisting that urge. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Excuse me. Donna Fiala from Collier County. Just a fast question: If we were able to lease this dredging equipment, is there something you can do during the down months when we have turtle nesting season? That's the problem, huh? MAYOR PASS: Steve, that's probably the problem; you're down six or seven months, you're -- MR. MUDD: When you get that dredge and it comes in -- you talked about the three S's. Well, in -- in dredging you've got the two T's; it's called tourists and turtles. UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: And tarpon. MR. MUDD: Tarpon, okay. Three T's. So you have the timing. You really -- you really only have the 45-day window in the -- in the springtime and a 45-day window in the fall time in order to do that and -- and to have the downtime for the dredge. If you don't own it, that costs a lot to just have him sit idly by and wait until he can -- until he can do that process. The key here is if you do get a dredge on site that you get your permit squared away and no matter who's county it's in and it's close enough so that he can get to it -- the dredger can get to it within that 45-day period of time, and then if you're going to bring another one back up in the fall, you get it squared away so that you tie it together and you maximize the time that you have this -- this dredge on site in order to do that process. MAYOR PASS: Any other questions? COMMISSIONER MAG'KIE: I'm worried about our timing. MAYOR PASS: You know, we're down here -- we're out of Page 75 April 11, 2001 time. We've got other things that we wanted to get on there. I'm glad we put on more than less and we ran out. I think it shows the need to probably facilitate another one of these meetings. Dr. Merwin, we appreciate your offer. We will -- we will get together and see when we can facilitate another one of these. I think probably doing them every six months or so is probably a timely meeting for us. And I want to tell everyone, I want to -- appreciate your participation showing up here. I think it's important that we show the unified front that we have today, get together with our legislators and our staffs and -- go on. I don't know -- you know, I can jump down here. I don't know if there's any public comment to come out of this today. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: I'd certainly be willing to stay a little longer if the room's available to allow -- MAYOR PASS: Well, by the -- by the time we get the room cleared for them, we're going to be -- they're going to have the -- COMMISSIONER CARTER: They're going to be in here. MAYOR PASS: We haven't got to April 15th yet, so they still have a fairly large-sized community out here that's still living in. They'll be in and expecting lunch. Lunch will not be served here today, but I think -- and Auggie just got a new car. Can you buy lunch for everyone, Dick? COMMISSIONER CARTER: Well, Mayor Pass, on behalf of the Collier County Commissioners, we thank you again for being our host this afternoon -- or this morning to -- and certainly Lee County commissioner, the new commissioners, all the staffs, and all the -- all the people who came here to listen this morning, we thank you tremendously for being here. I think this is a step that we needed to take. We're there. We're going to do it, and we'll see you all in October. COMMISSIONER MAC'KIE: Or sooner. Page 76 April 11, 2001 MAYOR PASS: Thank you. Motion to adjourn? We have a motion from Councilman St. Cerny, second from Councilman Nelson. All in favor? (Unanimous response.) There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 11:24 a.m. JOINT MEETING OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF LEE COUNTY, COLLIER COUNTY, AND BONIT_~OUNCIL J--~-~ D. CARTER, ~.~., ~MAN ATTEST.:,. ' ..DWIGHT E~,~.BROCK, CLERK ~ · ~,~ ~ i:~,~ ', .:: ~ \ These minutes approved by the Board on ..~-- ~- ~ ! presented v/~ or as corrected . ~ as TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT REPORTING, INC., BY BARBARA A. DONOVAN Page 77