TDC Minutes 04/09/2001 RApril 9, 2001
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
TOURIST DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL
Naples, Florida, April 9, 2001
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Tourist Development
Council, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted
business herein, met on this date at 5:01 p.m. in REGULAR
SESSION in Building F of the Government Complex, East Naples,
Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
James D. Carter, Ph.D.
Fred Tarrant
Gene Vaccaro
Joe Dinunzio
Liana M. Buysse
Rhona Saunders
Jerry Thirion, Jr.
Kevin Durkin
NOT PRESENT:
E. Glen Tucker
Kent Bud Stanner
ALSO PRESENT:
Greg Mihalic, Director HUI
Jacqueline Hubbard Robinson, Assistant
County Attorney
Jane E. Eichhorn, TDC Coordinator
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April 9, 2001
(The proceedings commenced with Councilman Vaccaro
and Councilman Buysse not present.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Good evening. Welcome to the Tourist
Development Council meeting scheduled this -- this date at 5
p.m. We all know this is a very important meeting, a lot of things
on the agenda.
Those of you who wish to address the council tonight will
need to do sign-up slips and give them to Greg Mihalic. There's a
sample being handed up to my right so that you can see that.
What we need to do to start the meeting is take a roll call to
find out if we've got a quorum. And prior to doing that -- and after
we do that I will have everyone stand and pledge allegiance to
the flag, but I got to make sure I got a legal quorum before I do
that. So I will go down the list.
My name is Jim Carter. I'm the chairman of this council and
also chairman of the Board of County Commissioners.
Councilman Tarrant, you're here?
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Yes, very much so. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. He's not smiling tonight
because he said he lost a tooth. He didn't want to look like a
jack-o'-lantern. But that's okay. We welcome you, Councilman,
and we will not pick on you at all for that reason. We may pick
on you for other reasons, but that won't be one of them.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Thanks, Jim.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Joe Dinunzio.
MR. DINUNZIO: Present.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Kevin Durkin.
MR. DURKIN: Present.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Jerry Thirion.
MR. THIRION: I'm here.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Liana Buysse, not here.
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April 9, 2001
Gene Varco (sic).
Rhona Saunders.
MS. SAUNDERS: I'm here.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Kent Bud Stanner. Not here.
Mr. Mihalic, do we have a quorum?
MR. MIHALIC: We do have a quorum.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. We have a --
MR. MIHALIC: Mr. Chairman, may I introduce our new
assistant county attorney who's going to be the overseer of the
TDC, Miss Jacqueline Robinson.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Jacqueline Robinson, we welcome
you.
MS. ROBINSON: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And I might say, ladies and gentlemen,
she has given us excellent advice to the Board of County
Commissioners. She's a very thorough and knowledgeable legal
counsel, so I think you'll enjoy her presence tonight as she will
answer your questions not only legally, but in language that you
and I can understand, and that's a blessing, believe me.
Let's stand for the pledge of allegiance, please.
(The pledge of allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. We will move to -- we've had
roll call. We're going to move to the November 20th minutes. We
need approval for those.
MR. THIRION: Move approval.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Do I have a second?
MS. SAUNDERS: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Approval by Councilman Thirion,
second by Councilman Saunders. All in favor signify by saying
aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
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April 9, 2001
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries.
Need approval for January 8th.
MR. THIRION: So moved.
MR. DURKIN: Second.
MR. DINUNZIO: Can we have some discussion on that?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. On January 8th, sure. I have a
motion. I have a second for January 8th minutes. Discussion by
the council.
MR. DINUNZIO: Yes. It reflects me being here twice to
make a motion and adding some questions, but I was not in
attendance at that meeting. I did that pretty well, didn't I?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Boy, I think you pulled that off
marvelously. Do we know who made those motions and made
those comments, or is it --
MR. DINUNZIO: On page 4 it was the motion regarding the
$9,000 for Friends of the Museum, I guess it was. The last
paragraph. Maybe I was the one that voted against it?
MR. MIHALIC: We'll go back to the tape, Mr. Chairman, and
correct that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Mr. Mihalic says we will go
back to the tape and make those corrections. Do we have -- can
we have it included in the motion that we'll go back to the tape
and make that correction?
MR. DINUNZIO: There's two of them.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Two corrections?
MR. DINUNZIO: Yes. Under No. 7 under status report,
Hideaway Beach, also that I asked who was doing some work.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. So it would be Item 6(A)(1); is
that correct? And under 7(A); correct? MR. DINUNZIO: Correct.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Anything else? Any other changes?
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April 9, 2001
All right.
that into your motion?
MR. THIRION: Yes.
MR. DURKIN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
aye.
Will the motioner and the seconder incorporate
So done. All in favor signify by saying
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries.
Update on the TDC workshop. Greg Mihalic.
MR. MIHALIC: Good evening, Councilmembers. On March
7th the Board of County Commissioners held a workshop on TDC
and the TDC program and what we should do in the future to
improve it.
(Councilman Vaccaro entered the boardroom.)
MR. MIHALIC: And there, I think, were several
recommendations that the Board of County Commissioners
made. One was to go back and review the ordinance and try to
simplify it so that the finance department as well as everyone
else could understand how the money should be expended more
easily.
Secondly, there was discussion to look whether complete
collections were being made, if we could assist the property
collector's office -- tax collector's office in being sure that there
is complete collection of TDC money, and we're looking to -- in
that area to improve it.
There also was discussion in changing the 2 percent
allocation from its current 70 percent for Category "A" and 30
percent for other to a different allocation, possibly 50/50, and
we're looking at a ten-year plan of Category "A" requirements
before we bring that back to the Board of County Commissioners
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April 9, 2001
to possibly change the ordinance and reallocate some of those
monies.
Is there any questions by any of the councilmembers on
that workshop?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Questions by the council?
MR. DINUNZIO: Time frame on that allocation, Greg?
MR. MIHALIC: Time frame would probably be within the next
two months we could bring the ordinance back to the Board of
County Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Any other comments? That was just a
status report.
Members of the council, if there's no further discussion on
that, we'll move to Item 6, which is Category "A," a total of
$8,037,219 estimated in Category "A." And Mr. Mudd and the
director of utilities for Collier County will be addressing this.
MR. MUDD: Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I'm
Jim Mudd, public utilities administrator for Collier County. We'll
talk about Category "A" and Category "B." The estimated at the
top is based on revenues. If you tally up everything that's under
"A," it comes to $4.5 million. All of those projects have not been
presented to a beach committee. The Coastal Advisory
Committee is still in formation stage.
We have six nominees on the county side. The City of
Naples, their advertisement for members closed out today, and
we're looking forward to their nominees or appointments. And
we're waiting for the City of Marco to give their appointments.
It's a nine-member Coastal Advisory Committee. It's being stood
up. We hope to have the appointments finished by the last part
of May; first meeting of the Coastal Advisory Committee
sometime the last part of May, the first part of June.
What we tried to do, from the staff's perspective, is put
down those projects that have been -- that have been ongoing
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April 9, 2001
and that have been traditional as far as beach renourishment is
concerned and to put in those projects that have been submitted
to the staff by -- by either the City of Marco Island or -- Pelican
Bay has the item at B(I). I'm prepared to go through every one of
those items.
What I'd ask the committee to do is to -- this is kind of a
place holder for us. I know it's uncomfortable on your part.
We're laying out the budget. It would -- and the staff made a
decision that it would be good to have the Coastal Advisory
Committee start out with an agenda with items to look at instead
of having to live with somebody else's process so they spend the
first year just kind of groping to figure out where their place is
and what they need to do.
We have all intent and purposes to lay this out in front of
them and then to lay this down in details and to see if -- if this is,
indeed, the budget and the agenda that they want to bring to the
TDC in July.
(Councilman Buysse entered the boardroom.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: In a conversation Jane Eichhorn and I
had this afternoon for council to consider is that -- two things.
One, we could accept the numbers changing one word and
saying an actual number "up to" in each area. "Up to" gives you
an opportunity to look at that. It could always be adjusted
downward by either group if necessary.
Secondly, if you -- if it's the desire of this council this
evening, you could accept these numbers and approve them in
June after the beach -- the Collier County --
MS. EICHHORN: Coastal Advisory Committee.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Coastal Advisory Committee. I'll get
that right one of these days -- coastal County -- Collier County
Coastal Advisory Committee reviews this and makes a report to
us. That way we would give them -- I think what you're telling us,
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April 9, 2001
Mr. Mudd, is the guidelines. Here's up-to numbers. Here are the
subject areas. And they can address those and then bring it
back to us.
So I will open it up for discussion, whatever the pleasure is
of this council by item. I'd like to put -- we can address --
MS. SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes.
MS. SAUNDERS: Are we saying then that these will not be
brought to the county commission for final approval until after
they come back to the Tourist Development Council? MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
MS. SAUNDERS: Okay. I have two questions, but one of
them that really concerns me first is I've just learned that the
federal government pays up to 65 percent of the cost of beach
renourishment projects, and I don't recall ever seeing that
reflected in this budget. I just wondered where are -- where we
stand on our reimbursement from the federal government.
MR. MUDD: Ma'am, you have to have your projects -- that's a
Section 103 Corps of Engineers. It's a continuing authority. You
have to vie for the amount of dollars that the federal government
has to do for the projects. First of all, you have to submit your
projects and get -- get a design report that's -- that they approve,
and then it basically goes in the hopper with the prioritized list.
That's one of the issues that I would like to get locked in for
the long term for us so that we can start getting that 65/35 -- 65
fed/35 local -- cost-share amount for dredging. It's basically
hydraulic dredging where they go out and find a -- a sand source
and then -- and then renourish the beach. There are several
events. One's two years away, and then there's another major
event that's approximately six years away that -- they're two
projects that would suit that particular continuing authority from
the Corps budget. We plan to submit those projects.
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April 9, 2001
MS. SAUNDERS: None of the existing projects fit it at this
time?
MR. MUDD: No, ma'am. And it normally takes upwards of
about two years to get that laid in and so that the project's
authorized and approved on the federal side of the house before
you can bring in those federal dollars to bear.
MS. SAUNDERS: Okay. One more final question. On the
project administrative cost, the total amount requested, I guess,
was $213,300 for the project administrators. Are those people
full time on the beach renourishment projects, or is that a
proportionate share of what they get?
MR. MUDD: No, ma'am. These are full-time -- these are full-
time folks that work the beach management process.
MS. SAUNDERS: Only?
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
MS. SAUNDERS: Okay.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Mr. Chairman, if I could, I'd just
like the record to reflect my own thoughts on Colonel Mudd's
explanation which I didn't fully understand, so I'm glad that
question was raised. But it would be my own preference -- I can't
speak, of course, for the city council because they're not here.
But my own personal preference would be not to apply for federal
funds for the beach projects because I think with those -- there's
a great temptation to take advantage of federal money. But with
that probably comes a great many regulations that we might not
find very palatable. And we've seen that over and over again in
many other areas of government. So I would -- I would be very
hesitant; that's all. I wanted to make that point.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Other councilpersons? Comments?
Yes, Councilman Thirion.
MR. THIRION: Thank you. I have a question on the sea
turtle monitoring, and I just would like some understanding or
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April 9, 2001
clarification as to how that falls into the beach renourishment
category. Greg, you and I had spoke on that earlier.
MR. MIHALIC: Yes. I believe that it's a permanent
requirement of any of the beach renourishment projects that
there is sea turtle monitoring; thus, it's a project-related cost,
and it's a continuing required cost as we do Category "A"
activities. So I -- I believe it is eligible. Jackie.
MS. ROBINSON: We discussed this yesterday and this
morning as a beach renourishment type of project under
Category "A" and decided that it would be eligible since it would
restore and keep the current natural state of the beach, which is
to have the sea turtles there. And on that basis we thought it
was -- could be approved.
MR. THIRION: So what you're saying is the presence of sea
turtles keeps our beaches and keeps the sand and so on?
MS. ROBINSON: That's what I was told this morning~ that
that was part of the natural habitat that --
MR. THIRION: Can I ask who told you that? The sea turtles
it must have been.
MS. BUYSSE: We have been funding this for -- since the
beginning of the projects.
MR. MIHALIC: As long as I've been involved, which has been
several years now. Again, to the best of my knowledge, it is a
permanent requirement of our renourishment activities.
MR. THIRION: Greg, I'm not trying to beat this, but I'd like to
find that out.
MR. MIHALIC: Okay. We'll make sure and --
MR. THIRION: And I appreciate the best of your knowledge,
but I'd really like to know because the next thing we'll hear -- and
I hope I'm not going to step on any toes here, but the next thing
we're going to hear is that this tern bird is also necessary to
keep the sand in place.
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MR. MIHALIC.' It may become a permanent requirement too.
MR. THIRION: So let's -- you know, and just because we did
it for nine years -- that's like the guy who gets caught speeding,
and he says, "Well, I've been speeding this way for the last six
years." You know, it doesn't give him the right to get away with
it.
MR. MIHALIC.' We'll get the information back to you.
MS. ROBINSON: And also I want to be clear on this. I don't
think it was necessarily to protect just the inhabitant, but to
maintain the natural habitat that was present at the beach and to
protect the turtles.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I guess what I'm understanding is a
natural environmental protection -- part of the natural
environmental protection plan or habitat, which in this case
happens to be sea turtles, on certain sections of beaches that
may be the terns.
I don't know, but those are issues I'd like to know, too,
where we stand and how this affects everything we want to do.
And it may well affect -- and Colonel Mudd can address this
if it's the pleasure of this council, to take that item in terms of
not the sea turtles but any of this and look at the Federal Corps
of Engineers assisting us and helping us fund some of this, then
I'm sure that may open the door to -- as Councilman Thirion said,
you're going to have to look at some issues in which the Corps,
the federal agency, grants money.
So maybe, Mr. Mudd, you can look at that for us also and see
are there certain regulations that we don't know about or haven't
thought about that we have to consider in this process. And
legal counsel can also address this issue of sea turtles.
MS. ROBINSON: All right. I will. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: It seems like a reasonable -- any other
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MR. THIRION: I have one more, Mr. Chairman. Number 8
and, again, I need some -- sorry -- I need some clarification. Are
we being asked to consider approval of $471,000 to check and
make sure if the projects that were previously approved are
working?
MR. MUDD: Well, what you do in this particular case is --
yes. Part of the answer to that question is yes. And the other
part is they monitor different passes and things like that. And if
it starts to shoal up -- as they do their hydraulic monitoring and
they go out and do their hydraulic survey, if they see those
particular issues, then they -- then they nominate those or the
flag goes up, and they basically come back to the Coastal
Advisory Committee and say, "Hey, there's a dredging event that
needs to -- it's starting to shoal up this year. We're probably
going to have to get at it next year.".
And those are the processes that go -- as far as that
monitoring is concerned. So it's both ways. They're looking at
existing projects, and they're also looking at the different passes
that we have out there for boaters and whatnot to see if -- to see
if a project -- or it's ready to dredge or not.
MR. THIRION: Is the majority of that -- of that money or
funding salaries, wages?
MR. MUDD: We cut an architect engineering contract with
them. Some of it's design work. Once they see it, then they'll
basically go in and give you a design for that project so that you
can submit that for the permit. They go through the permit
application. And before -- as they -- before you pay those monies
out to that AE firm, they would submit the vouchers for the
salaries and whatnot in that process.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: That almost -- that almost sounds
as though the environmental departments that the City of Naples
has and the county has and, I imagine, Marco Island has -- you
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April 9, 2001
almost think that the environmental departments of the different
government bodies could handle a lot of that type of work at a far
less cost but ...
MR. MUDD: One of the things that I'd like to do in this
particular year is those folks that -- since turtle monitoring was
such an issue, our natural resource folks are out there, and they
basically put three full-time equivalents out there monitoring the
session. And as the sea turtles come across, they mark those
nests so the beach goers can't go -- and one of the things that
I've talked to Mr. Lorenz, who is the head of natural resources, is
to teach those folks that are going out there looking for the sea
turtles an additional skill to start doing some cross-sections on
the beaches so they can take a look at the beach renourishment
areas that we have to make sure -- if they see areas, that they
can also be eyes and ears. So there are some things, that Mr.
Tarrant has said, that as we progress in this year that there
might be some cost savings.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Thank you, Mr. Mudd.
MR. VACCARO: Mr. Chairman, I had a comment just along
the same lines. And thanks, because I was going to ask the
same thing. It looks like we could possibly have some
overlapping and some duplication of effort there. If you're paying
whatever it is to go out and monitor the sea turtle activity and
you're also paying to be in the same places at generally the same
times another $600,000 to monitor another activity, it seemed
like training would be a lot cheaper than that 400 grand to see if
we couldn't eliminate some of that overlapping.
One quick question while I'm thinking about it. On Item 12
you're asking for $400,000 for construction. Before I could vote
on that, I'd like to know of what.
MR. MUDD: This is a proposal to -- to connect Tiger Tail
Beach with Hideaway Beach, okay, to provide a boardwalk.
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There's two alternatives out there in that process. One is to put
a boardwalk-type structure, and the other part is to do a sand
replacement or refurbishment and a boardwalk in order to bring
those two beaches together.
MR. VACCARO: So the construction is mainly bringing in
additional sand and building a boardwalk? MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
MR. VACCARO: How long is that boardwalk going to be
roughly?
MR. MUDD: Harry, do you have that?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Huber, you'll have to get on a
microphone and identify yourself for the record, please.
We have two councilpeople that did arrive after the meeting
started, and will you also for the record identify yourselves for
the court recorder (sic) and the audience before Mr. Huber
speaks.
MR. VACCARO: Hi. Yes. Jean Vaccaro.
MS. BUYSSE: And Liana Buysse.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. Mr. Huber.
MR. HUBER: Good evening. For the record, Harry Huber,
public utilities engineering department. I believe it's somewhere
between 1,500 and 2,000 feet long.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: What is the -- what is the width of
that boardwalk estimated to be?
MR. HUBER: Off the top of my head, I think it's about 10- to
15-foot wide. Oh, I'm sorry; 4-foot wide. Way off.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And may I ask this: Would we be using
the recycled milk cartons as we did in other areas to
accommodate that so it's more like a onetime expenditure and
it's there for 50 years?
MR. MUDD: It's doable, sir. It's just -- you know, we've got a
preliminary -- we have a preliminary feasibility study with an
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April 9, 2001
estimate on cost.
based on budget.
order to do that.
that contract.
We haven't gone out to bid that, as far as -- it's
It's based on final approvement of the CAC in
And we can make recycled materials part of
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Mr. Mudd, would you mind to have
the staff touch bases with the City of Naples on that, because we
had a long discussion on the boardwalk issue inasmuch as the
city is planning to build -- put a boardwalk in the Naples preserve.
And we discussed different kinds of material, and I found it very
educational, things I certainly learned. I think it might be helpful
to just coordinate a little bit with the city and find out what they
were talking about.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Thirion.
MR. THIRION: Yes. One last question on the -- Harry,
doesn't this also make -- I'm not familiar with the area as well as
I should be. But doesn't this now make Hideaway more public
than it has been?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. Right now you can't -- the only way you
can get to Hideaway is through somebody's backyard through a
gated community, or you get to wade through water to get there.
This boardwalk would let the public access it from Tiger Tail and
go right to that beach.
MR. THIRION: There's no other obstructions? I mean, they
could -- this boardwalk would allow -- MR. MUDD: Right to it.
MR. THIRION: Just what you said. Good. That's great.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Public speakers?
MR. MIHALIC: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Roellig, the chairperson of the City/County Beach
Renourishment Committee is here if there's any questions of him
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April 9, 2001
of the TDC members.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Question of Mr. Roellig, who will step
to the microphone if any councilmembers have questions.
MS. SAUNDERS: I do have a question. What is the
relationship going to be between the Coastal Advisory
Committee -- is that the new one -- and your committee?
MR. ROELLIG: Well, my understanding was that my
committee had its last meeting the 5th of June -- I'm sorry, of
April, and we will not be meeting in the future.
MS. SAUNDERS: Okay. And had you taken a look at any of
these projects prior to then, sir, or at that --
MR. ROELLIG: We hadn't looked at any of the Category "A."
We did look at the -- as I understand it, approve the ones under
Category "D," the beach renourishment for the City of Naples, the
monitoring the Gordon Drive T-groins, and monitoring Doctor's
Pass.
MS. SAUNDERS: And what was your recommendation on
those?
MR. ROELLIG: We approved those.
MS. SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. ROELLIG: To make a short statement about the federal
participation in beach renourishment, I'm retired from the Corps
of Engineers, and I've done many of those studies. And it's -- it is
kind of a two-edged sword. I don't think the regulations are
terribly onerous, but the problem is the funding is not a steady
stream. And you can do the studies and you can complete them
in a couple years, and then they go in the backlog, and the
money may not come for a few years. It may not come when you
want it.
So I think there is an advantage of using local money to do
this. We can -- certainly in the future if there's -- if the county
was interested, we could look at beach renourishment projects,
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April 9, 2001
but I think the smooth funding that you have through the TDC
would not necessarily be available under--
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, David, would you say on that
basis that we would look at that if they were approved as a
onetime situation and not interrupt your strategic plan that says,
you know, "Next year, folks, it may not be there." But you would
have a onetime savings, and then you've got a chance to bank
some money or use it for something else during that period, but
don't get used to it.
MR. ROELLIG: That's true. And basically what you -- what a
typical project is, is you would do a ma]or -- say, a renourishment,
and then typically there is periodic renourishment authorized
under that. And there are schemes where you can go ahead and
spend your money and come back and get reimbursed at
whatever Congress appropriates additional money. So it's -- I
think it probably could be worked out, but it's not quite as
smooth, but it is a source of--
MS. SAUNDERS: Is does sound like it's a way to leverage a
very limited fund.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes, Councilman, I would agree. I
would like us to explore the pros and cons and see what that
might do or not do for us. Would you concur, Mr. Roellig -- MR. ROELLIG: Yes. Right.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- that that is a prudent use of time and
taxpayers' dollars?
MR. ROELLIG: Yes, I think so. Basically what happens is
that you make a request for a study. The government does a
short study, and then if they need to do a comprehensive study,
just as with the Everglades, there's posturing of the study. And
then if that's approved and whether or not it's a 103 or -- for large
projects it depends on the dollar amount of the project. And then
it goes through the process of authorization and -- and gets in the
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April 9, 2001
line for budgetary funding.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Any other questions of Mr.
Roellig?
Thank you for being here and sharing with us.
MR. MIHALIC: Mr. Snyder or Schneider (phonetic).
MR. SNEDIKER: I'll waive.
MR. MIHALIC: Waive? And Mr. Anderson has waived.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Any other comments? For
the councilpeople who just joined us, I had said at the beginning
of this that I felt more comfortable in accepting versus approving
these numbers tonight and would say "up to" any given number
giving us an opportunity for downward adjustment and also an
opportunity to allow the Collier County Coastal Advisory
Committee to review all of this and report to us in June. That's
my only comments before you-all entertain whatever you'd like to
do with 6(A) and (B).
MR. THIRION: Mr. Chairman, we also have the right to deny
later?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I believe so. I don't know anything
there that would give us any reason why we couldn't. That's why
I say by "accept" it does not mean we've approved; therefore, it
makes it easier to deny, I think.
MR. VACCARO: I make a motion we accept.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And that would be Category "A" and --
MR. VACCARO: Number 6, Category 'A.".
CHAIRMAN CARTER: One through twelve.
MR. VACCARO: One through twelve.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. What about Category "B"?
You want to take that as a separate issue? MR. VACCARO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Let's go to -- we'll take
Category 'A,' (1} through (12). Do we have a second?
Page 18
April 9, 2001
MS. BUYSSE: Second.
MR. THIRION: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a second -- I have a pair of
seconds. The recorder has it. All in -- any further discussion?
MR. DINUNZIO: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Question.
MR. DINUNZIO: By accepting this can the motion state on a
not-to-exceed basis?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We said -- I said "up to." I don't know if
-- not to exceed, whatever term you want to use.
MR. VACCARO: Mr. Chairman, I would amend the motion to I
would move that we accept Category "A," the figure of
$8,037,219, not to exceed that amount.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right.
MR. VACCARO: Item I through 12.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We have -- the motioner made an
amendment. Does the seconder agree? MS. BUYSSE: Yep.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Seconder agrees. Any further
discussion?
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 9-0 (sic).
All right. We go to Item 6(B), beach renourishment, Pelican
Bay. Good evening, Mr. Ward.
MR. WARD: Good evening, Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman and members of the council. For your record, my name
is Jim Ward. I'm with Pelican Bay Services. The item before you
today is to obtain the funding necessary for the dredging of Clam
Pass for fiscal year 2002. We have recently done some analysis
Page19
April 9, 2001
work in Clam Pass, and I've noticed a 35 percent reduction in the
cross-sections of Clam Pass. The original dredging was done
about three years ago now, and we're requesting $202,000
approximately in order to fund it for next year.
The only change that I will make to the exec summary that I
presented to you is that 47,800 of that is for the design and
construction services during the dredging project which we will
need to fund this fiscal year versus in fiscal year '02. The reason
for that is we would like to -- as stated in this agenda package is
to actually do this dredging in November of this coming year
before season hits so we don't adversely affect the park or The
Registry Resort.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Forgive my ignorance on this
point. Could you help me understand, where does the material
that's dredged end up?
MR. WARD: This should all be beach-quality sand, so as it is
dredged, it will be placed on the beach south of Clam -- south of
Clam Pass.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Very good.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Which actually services southward, so
it flows down past The Registry to the City of Naples, right, if I
understand how the currents work?
MR. WARD: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Any other questions of Mr. Ward?
MR. THIRION: I just have a -- Jim, just a question. Why is
this separated from the others?
MR. WARD: I'm sorry. Why -- versus the ones above it?
MR. THIRION: Yes.
MR. WARD: I have no idea. I didn't do this.
MR. MUDD: Category "A" is basically administered by -- by
Collier County. What you have is -- Pelican Bay Services is an
offshoot of Collier County, but Mr. Ward is in that process. So
Page 20
April 9, 2001
those dollars would be transferred to his organization to monitor
and administer that project. When you get to the item that's on
your agenda that talks about the City of Naples, the City of
Naples -- Dr. John Staiger and his crew administered those
contracts, and that's why it's separated. MR. THIRION: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Any other questions?
MR. THIRION: Move approval.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a move for approval by Mr.
Thirion. Do I have a second?
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a second by Mr. Tarrant. Any
further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
Ward.
MR. WARD: Thank you, Council.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That takes us to 6(C).
MS. EICHHORN: There's only eight of you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Pardon me?
MS. EICHHORN: There's only eight of you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: There's only eight of us. Sorry. I'm
very good at doing that. The mythical voter was here so in case
we -- just making sure we're all right.
Okay. Let's go to Item 6(C), beach renourishment, parks
and recreation, Maria Ramsey.
Now, these items have been reviewed, as I understand it, by the
parks advisory council committee?
Motion carries 9-0 (sic). Thank you, Mr.
Page 21
April 9, 2001
MS. RAMSEY: That's correct. The PARAC, which is Parks
and Recreation Advisory Council. My name is Maria Ramsey. I'm
the director of parks and recreation. I do have Murdo Smith, my
beach and water person, here to answer any specific questions
you might have on the applications before you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Councilmembers, are there any
specific questions on beach renourishment for parks and
recreation, Items I through 6?
MS. BUYSSE: Yes. Is it actually eligible that we can pay for
the paving and stripping (sic) of a parking lot?
MS. EICHHORN: Yes.
MS. ROBINSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Legal counsel says yes.
MS. ROBINSON: We consider parking facilities to be beach
park facilities, which are an allowable expense under the state
statute and under your -- under the local ordinance.
MS. SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, I've got a question.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Sure.
MS. SAUNDERS: Under the budget the pro forma that we
were presented by -- by the staff, it indicates that the Vanderbilt
Beach parking garage, which was not a part of what the TDC
approved, was approved by the Board of County Commissioners
for $3,800,000. Is that reflected in here? Do we have the money
for that? Are we -- I'm not -- I'm a little confused on where our --
what our overall budget is and what we're taking out of it.
MR. MIHALIC: Your overall budget now has a balance -- a
projected balance of $8,037,000. So there is enough money to do
all these projects and do the parking garage because that's
already been removed from the projected budget. So that's - you
have 8,037,000 after the 3.8 million has been subtracted. MR. THIRION: Thank you, tourists.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Are there questions by members of
Page 22
April 9, 2001
council?
MS. BUYSSE: I would like to ask you, why was it removed
and now it comes up for approval?
MR. MIHALIC: Because it's been approved by the Board of
County Commissioners, so that comes off your rolling balance of
the amount of money you can project for the next fiscal year.
That's already been approved. So that's why it's off-- MS. BUYSSE: This is --
MR. MIHALIC: This is money that you potentially have to
allocate over the next fiscal year.
MS. BUYSSE: I know that. I'm talking about this $25,000.
MR. MIHALIC: Oh, no, no, no. That's -- that is part of-- that
will be removed assuming -- when the Board of County
Commissioners approves these projects --
MS. BUYSSE: Oh, okay. So it wasn't --
MR. MIHALIC: -- that will then be removed from the
$8,037,000. Excuse me if I've misspoke.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: So to make it perfectly clear to
me, please, is there any tourist development tax dollars involved
in the construction of the proposed parking garage? MR. MIHALIC: Yes, sir.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: And how much exactly?
MR. MIHALIC: $3.8 million.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: And is there -- is there a time
frame set on that project yet?
MR. MIHALIC: Mrs. Ramsey, can you speak?
MS. RAMSEY: Yes. We're looking at about a two-year
window for that. We're currently doing the scope of that project,
and we'll have it out to -- for an RFP probably within 30 days.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: And have you had any -- have you
had any letters or phone calls or neighborhood objections to that
project that you know of?
Page 23
April 9, 2001
MS. RAMSEY: Not since it's been approved.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: How about before?
MS. RAMSEY: Yes. There were some objections prior to
that which were expressed at the Board of County
Commissioners' meeting.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Tarrant, I was the only
commissioner that voted against that.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: I missed that on television.
Thanks for the information, Dr. Carter.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You're more than welcome, sir.
MR. THIRION: Maria, could you go into a little more
description about the Gulf Shore access?
MS. RAMSEY: Yeah. I'll let Murdo talk, and then I'm going to
do -- I have some visualization here for you.
MR. SMITH: For the record, my name is Murdo Smith. I'm
the beach and water superintendent for Collier County Parks and
Recreation Department. The north Gulf Shore beach access,
we're looking at refurbishing that, doing some landscaping, doing
some paving, basically brick pavers. We had performed some
work down in Marco, south beach access. If you can see on the
left up there, that's the -- what the Marco beach access now
looks like. And what we'd like to do is try to do the same type of
project at the north Gulf Shore beach access: The planting of
landscaping, some benches, some bicycle racks, some trees, and
so forth.
MS. SAUNDERS: Where is that, sir?
MR. SMITH: That is just south of Naples Cay.
MS. SAUNDERS: Okay. Yeah. Very end of the walkway?
MR. SMITH: Yes.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Chairman Carter, could I ask -- and
I don't know what the protocol is, and maybe it's not an
Page 24
April 9, 2001
appropriate question. If it's not, you'll tell me so. But I think
probably you know a great deal more about the background of
the issue of the parking garage than I do, certainly. I can
guarantee that.
And I wonder, is it possible for you to share with the council
some of the thoughts that you had on that? I think it would be
helpful to me, at least. I don't know about the other folks here.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Yes, Councilman. I would -- I
don't have a problem doing that. The reason I voted in the --
against it is that I didn't feel I had all the options for that area in
front of me, including a possibility for future acquisition of
parking facilities closer to our -- to our county park in
Cocohatchee. And I -- I am not saying that it isn't necessary. I
just didn't have the other options clearly in front of me that
would say is this the best solution to the problem, or did we have
other alternatives we could have explored and not have done
that. I may not be correct, sir, but that's where (sic) I was
thinking at that time.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: That's helpful to me. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You're welcome.
Any other questions by the council on these issues?
If there are no -- do we have public speakers?
MR. MIHALIC: None of these have them.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: If there are no public speakers, I
would like someone to entertain a motion, if they would, please,
for approval or tell us what you want to do.
MR. THIRION: I'll move approval.
MS. SAUNDERS: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a motion to approve. I have a
second. Any discussion by the council?
Seeing none, all in favor signify by saying aye.
MR. VACCARO: Aye.
Page 25
April 9, 2001
MR. DINUNZIO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Aye.
MS. BUYSSE: Aye.
MS. SAUNDERS: Aye.
MR. THIRION: Aye.
MR. DURKIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Aye.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 7-1.
That takes us to Item (D), as in David, beach
renourishment, City of Naples, Dr. John Staiger, Natural
Resources Manager. Dr. Staiger is out on the cameras. No. The
cameras are in here.
Who is catching our smiling faces this evening?
CAMERAMAN: ABC 7.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Welcome to the Tourist
Development Council. Give us some good footing. Take all the
Neopolitans and Collier County residents' smiles, dance with
their martinis and their loved ones or significant others.
MR. DINUNZIO: Preferably not both at the same time.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: At the same time, right.
MS. SAUNDERS: I don't have any questions on D.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Dr. Staiger.
He is entering. He is to the microphone. We're --
DR. STAIGER: I apologize. I figured you'd spend a while
with Maria.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: She's better looking than you are.
DR. STAIGER: I will -- I second that motion.
We have two requests; both of them are for monitoring.
One of them is for the south Gordon Drive T-groin installation, the
other one for Doctor's Pass. These are -- in the case of the
Doctor's Pass project, this is an annual effort. Twice a year we
Page 26
April 9, 2001
do a depth survey in the area of the inlet to track when we need
to do the maintenance dredging.
The south Gordon Drive T-groin project is a far more
elaborate effort. That project was completed last year, and we
are in the first year of a five-year permit-required monitoring.
And the requirement is for a considerable amount of beach
profiling, both up the beach and down the beach. And there is a
contingency fund in there for adding sand into the T-groin system
if it's necessary. Thus far, the T-groins have accumulated a
considerable amount of sand, and they're acting quite -- as a very
good stabilizing force. So the chances of having to use that
contingency money to put any sand in there is -- is probably
pretty remote unless we get some kind of a bizarre storm event.
But these are -- in the case of the Doctor's Pass
monitoring, it is an ongoing inlet management effort to track the
needs for dredging that inlet the same way that the annual
monitoring that Jim Mudd talked about under 6(A}(8} is -- looks at
monitoring in Caxambas and Wiggins and other passes. And the
T-groin monitoring is -- is a permit requirement. Those things are
still considered by the -- by the permitting agencies to be
somewhat experimental structures, so they require a fairly
elaborate amount of monitoring. That's what's involved with both
of those.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Dr. Staiger, is the profiling and the
monitoring basically a requirement or a mandate of the
Department of Environmental Protection, or which agency would
it be?
DR. STAIGER: Permits are from DEP and the U.S. Army
Corps of Engineers, and they require the monitoring. The two
agencies try to -- to coordinate their monitoring requirements so
that there is one -- one single monitoring can accomplish what
both agencies ask for. But the Doctor's Pass monitoring is -- is
Page 27
April 9, 2001
required by our inlet management plan simply so we can
determine what's going on there. And as we -- as we dredge that
thing every four years, it -- we need to track the progress of the --
as the sand moves into the inlet.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Those studies go over your desk
or through your department? DR. STAIGER: Yes.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT.' All right.
MS. BUYSSE: Could you tell me why the monitoring for -- the
two monitorings are so different in amounts, why one you
requested --
DR. STAIGER: Well, I just mentioned that the issue basically
for Doctor's Pass is it is essentially a fairly straightforward depth
survey of the inlet itself, which is pretty simple to do. The T-
groin project you have a survey required at 18 months after the
project was completed, another one at 24. It's a whole series of
profiles from the upper beach out into the -- into the gulf at about
500-foot intervals, and it's a lot of survey data and, in addition,
compaction testing of the sand and other things. And a fairly
elaborate report has to be submitted to the agencies.
The monitoring for Doctor's Pass is basically an internal
effort so we can just track what's going on in that inlet. This one
is something that has to be provided to the agencies. Ken
Humiston with Humiston & Moore Engineers, who are the project
engineers on that -- on that effort, is here if you have any other
questions. It's basically a much more detailed effort.
The actual monitoring cost itself is $44,000. The 84,000
includes the 40,000 for sand, and we don't think we're going to
ever have to spend that. That was -- a stipulation of the permits
was that we had to be prepared, if the -- if the beach reacted
negatively to these structures, to put sand back in there. As it is,
the structures have retained probably -- I don't even remember
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April 9, 2001
what. But it's -- a couple thousand cubic yards of sand right now
has been trapped in there, at least, that isn't going into Gordon
Pass. I mean, that's -- the whole purpose of these things is to
keep the sand on the Naples beach so it doesn't end up in Gordon
Pass.
MS. BUYSSE: So really it's only $44,000 then?
DR. STAIGER: Yeah. But we -- we had to -- we had to put
that contingency fill placement in there in case there's an event
that requires it. That was another permit condition.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: What company .- what company or
what entity is going to do this profiling and monitoring, Dr.
Staiger?
DR. STAIGER: Humiston & Moore. They're the engineers on
the project, and they have a contract with the city for that -- for
that project.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: See, I have this -- I have this
sinister feeling in the back of my mind that sometimes these big
regulators up in Tallahassee really have in mind work projects for
their fellow engineers to keep everybody employed and happy
and busy. But I don't know. You know, it's a lot of bureaucracy.
DR. STAIGER: You may be right.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Councilman Thirion.
MR. THIRION: Dr. Staiger, how -- how close is the vertical
public access to the T-groin?
DR. STAIGER: The nearest access is to the north, and I'm
just trying to think. It's probably about a third of a mile to a half
a mile north. There are several walkways from Gordon Drive to
the beach that are down in that south end, and I'm just trying to
think where the southernmost of those is located. It's probably
about a half a mile to the north of there.
MR. THIRION: And there's -- and there's parking close there
as well?
Page 29
April 9, 2001
DR. STAIGER.' No. That is strictly a pedestrian access. It
serves primarily the people who live in that -- in that area who
are not on the beach.
MR. THIRION: So it's--
DR. STAIGER: The nearest -- the nearest access with -- with
parking is 33rd Avenue South -- MR. THIRION: Okay. So--
DR. STAIGER: -- which is about ten blocks north.
MR. THIRION: So for the general public to enjoy the benefits
of this, they've got quite a hike -- DR. STAIGER: Yeah.
MR. THIRION: -- to get there.
DR. STAIGER: Yeah. This -- this structure was -- these
structures were not put in there primarily for recreational beach
benefit. They were put in there as part of the overall Gordon
Pass inlet management plan to try to keep sand on the Naples
beach and not have it go into Gordon Pass. And there is another
couple of parts of that inlet management plan. One of them is to
sand tighten the jetty on Key Island at the north end to keep
sand from moving back into the inlet from the south. That inlet
management plan for Gordon Pass involves about three or four
different projects, and this is one of them. One of them is
dredging the pass, which the Corps of Engineers may or may not
do.
By the way, just to give you a little background -- because
the issue came up of the Corps involvement. When we were
doing the beach renourishment project, Representative Goss had
the Corps do a reconnaissance study, which the Corps did for--
at no cost to the local government, and they recommended a
beach restoration project. This was back about 1992 maybe.
And the next step would have been a feasibility study to be done
by the Corps, cost shared five or six hundred thousand apiece by
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April 9, 2001
the Corps and Collier County.
And we went to Jacksonville and met with the Corps, and
the timing for that project would have been, I think, the
feasibility study in '94 and probably an authorized project
sometime in '98 or '99. And the beach committee discussed this
thing in detail and made a recommendation to the Board of
County Commissioners that they do not proceed any further with
that because we needed to get the beach restoration project
under way as soon as possible.
And it was a fortuitous decision, because when President
Clinton was elected, he told the Corps they were not going to
fund any more beach projects, and so the only beach
renourishment that the Corps has funded in the last seven or
eight years has been individual add-ons from Congress where
Congress said, "You will do this." And they're now talking about
reducing that cost share to 50/50. But under the Bush
administration, the Corps is still being told to not fund beach
restoration, so it's a budget-cutting issue. And so it may be that
we could get in line for funding with the Corps in the future, but I
wouldn't hold my breath.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Other questions from council?
MR. DINUNZIO: Dr. Staiger, it says in your application that it
is eligible for matching or alternative funds from the DEP?
DR. STAIGER: Yeah. We -- Harry applies on behalf all of
these projects annually for money from the Department of
Environmental Protection. And sometimes it comes forth and
sometimes it doesn't. If we get money from the DEP, it would go
in in lieu of TDC funds. So there is that option where we apply
every year for DEP funding for a lot of this stuff.
And sometimes we get a little bit and sometimes we don't. They
have a lot of money in Tallahassee, but they have a great deal of
money to spend on things like Pinellas County and Dade and
Page 31
April 9, 2001
Broward, and they seem to be the counties that get the lion's
share of the state's funding.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Dr. Staiger, I know this is not the
subject and it's not probably the appropriate time, so I won't
dwell on it. But I almost think that we're going to someday come
to the point where we may want to look at the possibility of
Marco Island and the county and the city getting together and
purchasing and owning and operating our own dredge rather than
contracting that type of thing out. That way we would have a lot
of direct control. We could move that dredge from place to place
as and when it's needed.
I guess the stumbling block in that simple scenario, again,
is the regulators in Tallahassee that place all of these regulatory
hurdles in front of you that you have to crawl under, over, and
around. So it's hard to think of any simple process, but I just
throw that out for thought.
DR. STAIGER: That was -- that whole issue was studied by
the West Coast Inland Navigational District and, I believe, the
Regional Planning Council probably about six or seven years ago.
And at that time the -- the Corps of Engineers' involvement in
inlets was such that locally owning a dredge was not cost-
effective. I believe that we have been looking at that recently,
and it's getting much more cost-effective.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Well, I remember it goes back a
long way. Even when Senator Saunders was on the county
commission he was advocating that. And I told him if he could
get it, we'd name it the Saunders Sand Sucker, and it never
happened.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That might be part of the reason why it
didn't go any further.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: That's probably it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: However, interesting point, and I think
Page 32
April 9, 2001
that's one we can all continue to pursue, not only in the county
but in the regional level. And I serve on a commission,
Southwest Regional Planning Council, and will keep that in mind.
I think it's a good point.
Any other questions or comments for Dr. Staiger?
MR. THIRION: Mr. Chairman, I move approval.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a second (sic), and we're
moving approval by Jerry Thirion. MR. DINUNZIO: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I have a second to my right. All in
favor sig -- any further discussion?
Any public speakers?
MR. MIHALIC: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 8-0.
MS. EICHHORN: Commissioner, I would just like to clarify
that the items that are going to come back in July are A(1)
through (12), B(1), and D(1) and (2) after they go to the Coastal
Advisory Committee?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That's right. Well, I didn't mention
that, but I guess we need to make a motion to that affect if --
MS. EICHHORN: Well, D(1) and (2) have gone to the Beach
Advisory Committee when they still were in effect.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So do we really need to bring it back?
MR. VACCARO: I don't think that's necessary, Mr. Chairman,
to bring those back.
MS. EICHHORN: So it's just A(1) through (12) and B(1)?
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
with.
MS. EICHHORN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
Right. I think the others we're okay
Okay. Move to Item No. 7, Category
Page 33
April 9, 2001
"B" as in boy, advertising/promotion and special funds (sic), total
of $2,593,568 estimated. Tourism Alliance of Collier County,
Kathy Prutos is the president.
Good afternoon.
MS. PRUTOS.' Good evening.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Evening. It's six o'clock. It's evening
time. What is the pleasure of the council? Would you like her to
review each item? Do you have questions on specific items?
How would the council like to proceed?
MS. BUYSSE: I think we should review them.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Councilperson to my right -- or left
says let's review each item. Is that the pleasure of the council?
MR. THIRION: Are we talking just the -- just 7(A)?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: 7(A)(1), FY02 marketing plan and FY02
funding application. And that's -- if we were taking it -- is that
what you mean, (A)? And then if we were doing (A), then we'd
take (2), list of interested special events, so we would have (1)
and (2) under (A) if that is the intention that wants to be carried
out.
MS. BUYSSE: Suggestion.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Suggestion. Liana, how do I say your
last name? I want to get that correct. Liana Bice (phonetic)?
MS. BUYSSE: Buysse.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Buysse. Suggestion?
MS. ROBINSON: Commissioner Carter --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Comment?
MS. ROBINSON: -- I have a comment.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes.
MS. ROBINSON: I'd like to bring to the council's attention a
conclusion that was reached by our office in con]unction with our
discussions with parks and recreation in there. So one, this
agreement, the application's for a proposed three-year marketing
Page 34
April 9, 2001
plan. Our suggestion is that you consider this one year at a time
as opposed to three.
Secondly, the ordinance pertaining to the --
the expenditure of I and 2 percent funds has been amended.
There's a proposed amendment going around the departments,
the relevant departments, and that will be brought back, and you
will be updated on that.
And third, there is a review currently being conducted of
the agreement between the county and the Tourism Alliance of
Collier County, and you will be updated on that also at your next
meeting.
MR. VACCARO: Mr. Chairman, I just had a couple quick
questions of Kathy. Hi, Kathy. The big end of your request is
going to be advertising. That looks like that accounts for two-
thirds of your
budget. You've arrived at a number of 900-and-something
thousand dollars for first-year funding for advertising. MS. PRUTOS: Yes.
MR. VACCARO: Now, I assume that's all out of county and
out of season.
MS. PRUTOS: Correct.
MR. VACCARO: So you've got a plan from your ad agency on
record of the markets you're going to be advertising in and a
breakdown of the media you're going to use and all that's already
been done?
MS. PRUTOS: That's correct.
MR. VACCARO: That will -- before -- we'll probably never see
that. Am I to understand that would go to a committee that I
think Mr. Durkin's on that would review that and bring that back
to this council?
MR. DURKIN: (Nodded head.)
MR. VACCARO: Is that the way that works?
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April 9, 2001
You would bring a recommendation, or would we see the details
of that budget?
MR. DURKIN: That's available, Gene, so Kathy could
actually give you that.
MR. VACCARO: Okay. Thank you.
MS. SAUNDERS: One question, Kathy. I know we're still
talking about special events. How much do you specifically have
set aside; not for each special event but for the category as
such?
MS. PRUTOS: At this time we have not determined a
percentage for special events. At our workshop on March 7th
with Collier County Commissioners, we had frank discussion, and
it was all agreed that special events will be handled on a case-
by-case basis. And at this time, until an application is actually
formalized, we really don't know what the -- how much money
will be set aside for special events. The Tourism Alliance is
working on a number of special events that we are going to
create with major media, and we're looking forward to doing that.
But as far as evaluating or giving you a dollar figure what
members of the community have brought forward, we don't have
that at this time.
MS. SAUNDERS: But will that money come out of the overall
pocket that we're approving today, or are you going to come
back and ask for more?
MS. PRUTOS: We'll come back and ask for more.
MR. VACCARO: Kathy, don't I understand that tonight is the
deadline to ask for money for special events for this year? MS. PRUTOS: Yeah. I believe that is so.
MR. VACCARO: So if you do come back, it would be in July,
and it would be in the form of a request for special events for
calendar year 2002?
MS. PRUTOS: I am not sure, but that is what I was led to
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April 9, 2001
believe. Because there is not an application in force at this time,
I was led to believe, after that March 7th workshop, that special
events would be handled on a case-by-case basis. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Mihalic.
MR. MIHALIC: Yes. Well, we do have a special events
application. In fact, it is in your folder, and it has been approved
by county staff, and it has been approved by the special events
committee of the Tourism Alliance. It has not been approved by
their board yet, the Tourism Alliance Board, and it has not been
brought back to the Board of County Commission for formal
approval. But I would hope that as soon as that's done, we could
then go out and accept applications for special events. I don't
know what the dollar amount is, but if it's important that special
events are integrated into our advertising and promotional
program, I think we need to go out and search for special events.
There's several speakers here that --
MR. VACCARO: The criteria as presented to us and -- from
Jane --
MR. MIHALIC: Right.
MR. VACCARO: -- in these documents --
MR. MIHALIC: Right.
MR. VACCARO: -- give a March deadline for special events.
You're just saying, "We're just kidding about that.".
MR. MIHALIC: Well, we weren't kidding. We thought we
could have this approved by the Tourism Alliance Board by that
time --
MR. VACCARO: So --
MR. MIHALIC: -- but it's not approved there yet, so we're
going to have to slide that deadline.
MS. EICHHORN: For this particular year, because the
special event application went back and forth between the
Tourism Alliance and staff, we would make some -- bend some
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April 9, 2001
rules a little bit to accept some special events for next fiscal
year so we can have the event for next fiscal year. So we would
take the applications within the next month or so. Or when the
Board of County Commissioners finally ratify the special event
application, then we would get the applications filled out from
the interested parties, submit them to the special event
committee from the Tourism Alliance, take them to the Tourism
Alliance Board, have them review them, and recommend them.
And then we would bring them forward for --
MR. VACCARO: So this would be for special events --
MS. EICHHORN: For '02.
MR. VACCARO: -- that would take place --
MS. EICHHORN: '02.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: '02. And what I'm understanding is --
first of all, how soon will that come to the Board of County
Commissioners?
MR. MIHALIC: As soon as the Tourism Alliance Board
approves the final application.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: When do they meet? Can you give me
a time line here?
MS. PRUTOS: We were led to believe that the special events
application would be put on the agenda tonight, and I have my
chairman of the Tourism Alliance, George Percel ..... , who
would like to speak directly on special events. We thought this
would be addressed later in the agenda. But he's here right now,
and I'm going to turn it -- the microphone over to George.
MR. PERCEL: Good evening, Commissioner and
Councilmembers. I'm George Percel. I'm chairman of the
Tourism Alliance of Collier County this year. Special events is
something that is dear and near to our hearts, and we want to do
special events. We have come before you numerous times back
in 1999, January of 2000, with applications that we had devised.
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April 9, 2001
Once that was approved and again approved last fall in
November, county staff decided that we need to make
modifications because it wasn't inclusive enough. Those
modifications are the application that you have in front of you for
approval tonight. We received this last week for review. Our
executive committee met on Thursday night, and we found
numerous errors, typographical errors, in the process. We made
this comment today -- this morning to Mr. Dunnuck so that he can
bring it to the attention of staff.
We are not at all clear as to what the process is. There are
numerous dates in there. There is an exclusion, as we
understand it, for example, of -- of for-profit corporations in
applying because of a typographical error, the placement of
parentheses and things of this nature, which would make it very
difficult, because when we brought it back to the Tourist
Development Council previously one of the comments that the
Tourist Development Council made was to include for-profit
corporations in the process as well, which we did accommodate
and the Tourist Development Council later approved of and such.
We have this ongoing discussion, and it is something that
we have not been able to resolve to this moment. We can't
comment as to what amount of money, as Mr. Mihalic has
suggested earlier, but we did talk about in front of the
commissioners about the possibility of anywhere from 10 to 20
percent being reserved for special events, and we'd happily do
this as soon as we know exactly what the process is before we
put our name to that, and we approved that. So at this moment I
would say that it's still up in the air.
MS. EICHHORN: Commissioner Carter.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes.
MS. EICHHORN: When I was doing the application with the
special events committee, the special events committee
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April 9, 2001
recommended that we put the dates in the application as far as
when it's due. I had put in the application March 15th or March
12th, a deadline to me. But since the special event committee
has gotten involved with the application, it needed to get to the
special event committee earlier, which would be January, so that
the special event committee would be able to review it for
completeness.
Once we decided that the application was complete, then it
would move on to the Tourism Alliance in February for their
review, and then it would meet the -- our deadline by March. If
there was any incomplete applications, then we would have time
to send it back to the interested party for them to complete the
application and send it back. So that discussion, as far as the
dates, was discussed at a special event committee that we had
in our office.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. But that would take care of
2003. I guess what we really got to do is figure out what we're
going to do with 2002, and what I'm trying to do is find a time line
so that we can let the public know what the cutoff date is. And
let's get this application, I's dotted, T's crossed, commas in the
right place, rather than us trying to sit here tonight and craft it.
And I will refuse, as a county commissioner, to craft it from the
dais, so somebody better get it done before we get here.
MR. MIHALIC: We're anxious to proceed as soon as
possible. This has been in transit since March 7th, and we'd like
to finalize it. And the Tourism Alliance Board needs to finalize it.
MS. BUYSSE: Do I understand that you are suggesting that
we include for-profit corporations, organizations?
MR. PERCEL: That was the recommendation of the Tourist
Development Council a year and a half ago.
MR. VACCARO: I still strongly support that. I made that
recommendation, and I would rather have special event
Page 40
April 9, 2001
professionals doing special events, and my experience with that
has been amateurs doing events that appeared as though
amateurs were doing them dealing with nonprofits only. I think
that needs to be opened up publicly, and I hope that's part of the
new application process. So I guess all we're trying to find out
tonight is a date when -- when that might be available and when
the cutoff is for --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And we can approve that application
tonight and get some of it cleaned up. You know, it's -- it's
approved along with the cleanup of the reports with the general
principles it includes nonprofit and for profit, if that's the major
hurdle and this council is comfortable with that. Are there any
other hurdles in that application that we have to deal with
tonight?
MR. PERCEL: We're not -- excuse me.
There were a couple of other questions that we had, and I think
that some of them can be cleared up. However, last year you
also made some additional allowances to -- to include into
funding. Our expertise as Tourism Alliance is in marketing the
destination. It is not in managing special events. In this -- on
special events committee -- and I don't know what page it is, but
I'm referring to this page here (indicating) in the -- in the process.
There is also now at -- a line in there which allows any --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Is that under scope of work?
MR. PERCEL: Special events, it looks like about halfway
through. Unfortunately the pages are not numbered. But last
year you allowed -- while you find that page, special event
committee.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yeah. Got that.
MR. PERCEL: This is the page (indicating). Last year you
allowed the Marco Island Film Festival to use part of the money
that you allowed -- that is the county commission -- for .....
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April 9, 2001
bringing in celebrities which were considered as promotion.
Now, this has again been expanded from that, and I personally --
you know, an open-ended thing as "Any expenditure directly
related to this event may be included on the budget submitted by
the applicant -- by (sic) the application. Subject to approval by
the Board of County Commissioners."
This funds-can-be-used-for category opens it up for virtually
funding almost anything within that. Tourism Alliance is in the
marketing business, not in the hosting business, not in the -- in
determining what is right and what is wrong. My personal feeling
is -- and neither my executive committee nor the board of
directors have talked about this -- that if we get too far afield, it
is going to be very difficult to control.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So what your recommendation is that -
MR. PERCEL: That it would be very much more specific than
open-ended in that nature.
MR. DURKIN: Mr. Chairman, ill may comment also. George,
it was discussed also that the county attorney also reviewed it.
We felt that there may be some areas in there that may be
questionable under the Florida State Statute. I don't know if
you've had --
MS. ROBINSON: No.
MR. DURKIN: -- an opportunity to look at it. I think it's
necessary that the county attorneys look at it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I'm going to throw this out. What
if we follow the same regulations that government employees
have to follow as far as --
MR. MIHALIC: Well, there's always problems with bidding
and being part of the bid process. The only one we ran into is the
July 4th program where under the old regulations July 4th would
have never fit in. We could not pay for the bands to come in. We
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April 9, 2001
could not pay for their hotel rooms. And that really was the first
event that showed how unworkable the more strict criteria were
where only advertising and marketing were allowed to be funded.
We turned it the other way -- again, this doesn't mean that
this is automatically approved. It means that the Tourism
Alliance can approve any and all of these expense as they -- as
they promote and market events. I mean, I think we want to be
as flexible as possible to integrate special events into our overall
advertising and marketing plan, and that's what we'd like to do.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I guess let's look for-- under travel
expenses then, what you're saying is use good judgment when
you're looking through that. You don't have to be an expert in it.
MR. MIHALIC: Well, it doesn't mean they will -- are allowed
anything they ask for.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: No.
MR. MIHALIC: Again, that's what the Tourism Alliance is
going to oversee.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: If it says I want to bring in a
performer, that does not include his spouse, children,
grandchildren, and Uncle Ned and flying them first class.
MR. MIHALIC: I think that that really has to be looked at
individually. For instance, in the Marco Island Film Festival,
there are times when actresses and directors are brought in, and
they do fly them first class, and they do put them up in nice
accommodations because that is what they believe is required to
promote that event.
MR. DURKIN: Mr. Chairman, in previous years we have -- the
committee has used good judgment, and what has happened,
staff has made some changes in the decisions made by that
committee. It has gone to county and it has passed. One
example of that was the -- when we used the point system last
year, the $30,000 for the entertainers. That was not approved by
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April 9, 2001
that committee. It was amended by staff, sent to the county
commission, and it was approved fully. So I -- I want to clarify
here using good judgment. We're trying to use good judgment,
but no one seems to be listening.
MS. SAUNDERS: Well, we do have a number of the county
commissioners in the audience at this time, and perhaps if they'll
let us do our jobs as best we can to advise them and not listen to
the entire pitch all over again in the county commission office
without speaking with us -- I don't mean to stand on a soapbox,
but this is one of my passions -- then perhaps we can make some
rational decisions.
I think, Mr. Chairman, that we're very close on this
application. I think -- in fact, I commend Jane, and I commend
Greg and I commend George for putting this -- you know, getting
it where it is. I think we're now down to almost the nitty-gritty.
After Congress passes a bill, they let the committees work out
the details. That's where I think we are on this. CHAIRMAN CARTER: Good analogy.
MS. SAUNDERS: The only part of this I'm uncomfortable
with at all is I don't want them coming back to us for more
money in July. Whatever we approve now, I would like to say
we've taken 15 percent or whatever, roughly, and special events
can be approved up to that amount designated within the budget.
They're going to come back to us, as I understand it, anyway in
July with the specific special events they're recommending, but
I'd rather not have them come back with asking for more money
and everything else.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: I agree with that. I agree with my
colleague that helped bring to our attention the fact that you --
you need -- you need for-profit involvement with professionals
that know what they're doing. And we all remember Fantasy in
Fire, and we got scorched with that, if I can say that. But I think,
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April 9, 2001
you know, we've all learned from these experiences. And I
agree, Mr. Mihalic, that -- that you need to have a certain amount
of flexibility or nothing is going to work right.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I would agree with my colleagues.
Can we -- can we move this to where we can agree to set aside a
percentage -- I think is what I'm hearing -- for the budget? Let
them work it through. Anybody that's making an application, you
can come to us against the checklist and say, "This is how we'd
use the money." If there's certain touchy items in there, again,
I'd say common sense would say, you know, "Don't put that in
there. You go figure out how you're going to do that. Don't even
bring it to us.".
And I know we got about four or five speakers.
MR. PERCEL: Commissioner Carter, we're looking for
guidelines. We're looking for clear-cut direction, and we're happy
to do it. But, you know, as long as -- if the direction is clear and
it is set in stone, we will follow that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I appreciate that. And I want to give
you that flexibility. I want to make it work for you. I agree with
my colleague to the left, Ms. Saunders. I don't want these people
making an end run into my office because they didn't get what
they wanted, to this council, to the alliance and come and cry on
my desk that, "Gee, I was treated badly" or this or that. I don't
want that to happen. I'm going to cut them off at the pass.
MR. PERCEL: Commissioner, I would suggest then that
whichever way you're going to revise this, let the Tourism
Alliance be the ultimate responsible -- if we're going to be the
one accountable, let us be responsible for the allocation, please.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I -- this commissioner concurs.
MS. BUYSSE: But, actually, we still have to approve an
ordinance.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yeah. We have to make, I guess, the
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April 9, 2001
final approval of it based on they had X number of dollars, and
they got Y number of projects. As long as it doesn't exceed that --
I guess that's what they're telling us.
MR. VACCARO: Mr. -- Commissioner, .Mr. Chairman, excuse
me. I personally would have a problem with that. I don't think
things should come back here and say, "Okay. It's within budget;
it's okay with me." That could be buying a pig in a poke. I want -
- if it comes back here for approval, I don't want to know that the
only criteria is that it's within budget. That doesn't tell me if that
program's going to work or fail.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I stand corrected. I would say that's
one of the criteria.
MS. PRUTOS: Mr. Chairman, if l may add.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes.
MS. PRUTOS: The grant application that is before you from
the Tourism Alliance for $1.519 million, those dollars are all
allocated for advertising, public relations, Web-site development,
toll-free visitor information, and fulfillment. In that budget we
have not earmarked any dollars for special events funding.
As you can see from our agenda, there's an estimated $2.5
million available in Category 'B" for advertising and promotion. I
would ask that you please do not consider a flat percentage of
our advertising budget to oversee special events. I have over 21
years of experience in marketing and special events, and I will
tell you at this time it is very difficult to estimate based on a
percentage of budget. You tell people you've got 10 percent,
they're going to spend 10 percent.
We are currently working on a number of special event
activities through the Tourism Alliance with major media outlets.
We look forward to working with staff on funding any of the
community events as well. But I caution against taking any of
that $1.5 million that's earmarked for our marketing budget and
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April 9, 2001
allocate if for special events at this time.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Members of council, thoughts in
regard to --
MR. VACCARO: Mr. Chairman --
MS. BUYSSE-' I feel--
MR. VACCARO: Excuse me. I agree with what Kathy said a
hundred percent. I like this application. I like the criteria as it's
been developed so far. This is far better than what I've seen in
the past. I -- I think that those special event -- each individual
special event should come back to this council and after it's
been approved by Mr. Durkin and his committee. After the
recommendation from you to Mr. Durkin and his committee, he
brings it back with a recommendation to this council but with
details on how those monies are spent, and we vote on it. I don't
like ever voting on a blind project, and I would -- I would abstain
from all --
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: That sounds very good to me.
MS. BUYSSE: I totally agree, yeah, because --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You're agreeing? Thank you.
MS. BUYSSE: Yeah. I also want to add that we don't know
what those projects are. It could be a small project for a small
amount or maybe come with a very important project for the city
that requires more money that -- that eventually we would
allocate it. I think that I agree that we should do it on a project
basis.
MS. SAUNDERS: If I'm reading the budget correctly, we're
basically holding one -- approximately $1 million in reserve for
special events at this point; is that correct? MR. MIHALIC: No, that's not true.
MS. SAUNDERS: Okay. Tell me -- then tell me --
MR. MIHALIC: Our collections for next year for Category "B"
under the present percentages, assuming we don't change any
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April 9, 2001
ordinance percentages, we would have approximately $891,000
in new taxes collected in this category. However, our
carryforward because we roll -- we integrated the special events
into the promotion and advertising a couple years ago. We
integrated it into one category, and there are reserves -- there's
carryforward in that category of 1.571 million.
So your 2.5 million -- 2.59:3 million is all the money you have
in this category. As you dip into that money, under the present
percentages, it is not coming back. We are eating into the
reserves. And if you approve 1.5 million this year and you
approve whatever special events, you'll find your reserves are
going to be $700,000 next year plus new collections. So just
keep in mind that you cannot sustain this kind of budget forever.
MS. BUYSSE: Okay.
MR. MIHALIC: There are several public speakers.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Let's go to public speakers.
MR. MIHALIC: Mrs. -- Miss Pappalardo.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Can you put the next one on deck,
please?
MR. MIHALIC: Miss Fortune.
MS. PAPPALARDO: Hi. For the record, my name is Annie
Pappalardo. I represent Collier County Parks and Recreation
Department. I'm their special events, recreation, and marketing
supervisor. We just want to make sure that for the upcoming
year when you-all decide when we're going to be funded,
hopefully, that our Country Jam Festival be considered for
funding and also a new festival that we're bringing on board
which will be a Latin flavor festival which will also be hosted
during the off-season. We will be working closely with Jane. I
will be personally marketing, doing all types of marketing outside
the 120-mile radius with hotels, media, even some fly-ins, so all
that will be under our events.
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April 9, 2001
We will -- also right now we have a Web page up for the
Country Jam. If you haven't checked it out, it's
www. countryjamnaples.com. I've only been in my new job three
weeks, but I was able to get it up the first week when I took this
job and got a lot of positive response. I have copies of
everything that came in. We had people coming in from New
York, Oklahoma, a lot of Key Largo. I worked with them, got just
local hotel numbers. Patrick, you know, really quickly said,
"Here, call the chambers. Call these hotels. Come in for the
weekend." Held tickets for them at the front. This weekend we
had a really good turnout.
So we're going to be working closely also --
the parks and recreation department wants to make sure that
you include athletics as part of this because we're hoping to do
some major tournaments in the upcoming years. I know this
summer we have -- I met with Jim this morning -- two upcoming
tournaments that I'm going to just look at and track closely what
kind of bed nights we bring into the county, so we can apply to
this in the future years. And plus a regional park coming in,
you're going to be getting big impacts of big tournaments coming
into our area.
And then also I now will speak on behalf of the Hispanic
Heritage, Incorporated. I am the president of the Cinco de Mayo
event in Immokalee, Florida. We have come a long way. This is
our 12th annual event this year. We have moved off county
property into the Seminole Indian grounds. And right now we're
working closely with charter buses bringing people in from the
West Palm, Orlando, Tampa area for this coming May 5th,
Saturday May 5th. And we want that event also to be considered
in the future for funding in the off-season. Any questions?
MS. SAUNDERS: Do you have a rough idea of what the
budgets would be for those projects that you'd be asking for
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April 9, 2001
grants on?
MS. PAPPALARDO: Well, I imagine -- I'm not sure what the
board is going to do, the TDC, but I imagine -- in the past with Lee
County -- I was their special events supervisor -- it was a
matching grant for many of our tournaments like for the -- of
course, the college tournaments, baseball and softball that we
bring in because the impact is so great to the county, you know.
But it depends. A lot of the monies that we're going to be asking
for for athletics would be matching monies for advertising, and
hopefully they'll consider T-shirts. I think it is, like they said, a
case by case depending on the events.
As far as the music festivals, I'm hoping that they will
consider us, paying for things like the production companies,
helping us out if we match, artists, to bring bigger acts into the
area. So I think, like they said, it's going to be case by case, and
hopefully good judgment will definitely take place in there, and
we can work with them. And I think that, you know, we just have
to work closely with the profit and nonprofit groups that are
going to come in.
And when you open it for nonprofit groups to come, you're
going to get a lot of promoters wanting to come in here and use
the facilities, and a lot of that will be our parks because we have
the facilities to do that. So that's going to be -- you know, we're
going to have to work closely with the TDC and the parks and
recreation department to make sure that we can take everything
that's going to want to come into the county.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: But understanding at this point that
they don't know.
MS. SAUNDERS: They don't know. I got that.
MS. PAPPALARDO: It depends on how much money they
have, and then we'll address how much we're going to ask for.
Thank you.
Page 50
April 9, 2001
MR. MIHALIC: Cindy Fortune.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And followed by?
MR. MIHALIC: Jack McCarthy.
MS. FORTUNE: Good evening. My name is Cindy Fortune.
I'm the executive director for Swamp Buggy, Incorporated, and
Florida Sports Park, and I'm here to ask for money for the Swamp
Buggy Races. We hold three Swamp Buggy Races per year, two
of which are outside the season. We were -- the Swamp Buggy
Races were the subject of a one-hour documentary on March 2nd
on the Arts and Entertainment Network. I don't know if any of
you saw it, but it was a great show. We were featured in an
episode of Extreme Machines on The Learning Channel this past
summer. We were -- the most recent race in March is going to be
featured on a show on The Discovery Channel. It addition to that
we've been on TNN for nine years.
We attract many visitors and much attention to Collier
County. I've ordered an estimated economic impact study to
help quantify just exactly how we do impact the area. I know
that at the last race the Shell station on the corner closed. They
ran out of gas because they were so busy, so we do bring visitors
to the area.
You asked the question approximately how much money the
event would need. I think initially we'll ask for approximately
$30,000 for each race, May and October race. That's all I want to
-- I think everybody knows pretty much what we do out there and
that we are a nonprofit organization with all volunteers. Several
different organizations in the county do benefit from the Swamp
Buggy Races.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: You have a good safety record,
too, don't you?
MS. FORTUNE: Yes, we have an excellent safety record.
MS. BUYSSE: But you have no application for this year?
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April 9, 2001
MS. FORTUNE: I'm waiting for the application, I guess. I'm
waiting. As soon as I get it, you'll get it back. I'm ready. And I'll
have the estimated economic impact study to go along with that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Excellent.
MS. SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MIHALIC: Mr. McCarthy.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Followed by?
MR. MIHALIC: That's the last speaker on this item.
MR. McCARTHY: I'm Jack McCarthy. I'm with the Irish
American Club of Naples, and we've been running events for the
last eight years, concerts, etc. And last January we had a -- a
festival at the Swamp Buggy park there. It brought -- we had
nine bands from New England and Ireland. We had the Dundee
pipists from northern Dundee, Florida. We brought in a number of
people. We ran our entertainment costs alone over $30,000. We
picked it all up on our own and everything along that line. We did
not know about the advantages of the tourist, but now we found
out that it's kind of restricted to a May through November --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Off-season. Yes, sir.
MR. McCARTHY: And not having an application to look at to
see what other events might qualify, we do run events in October
and September and in May. And these are usually concerts.
We've had them at various high schools. We've had them at Lely,
Barron Collier, the new high school in North Naples. And we've
brought in nationally known Irish singers and performers. And if
the budgets are not the type that you have to do it two years in
advance and it's on an event-by-event basis, we'd like to make
applications for these events when they're coming up. But it's
difficult to do to try to get a performer and block them in for
sometime in the year 2003. You can't do it.
So our events we usually put it together within a three- to
four-month period. And if you're working budgets that you have a
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April 9, 2001
deadline of March 15th for the following year, it sort of is going to
restrict you as to the number of special events that will qualify.
So I think if you look at this on a one-to-one basis, you know, as
an event and leave it an open-ended one whereby that you don't
have deadlines that you have to submit the application so many
months in advance, that other nonprofits like our -- ourselves
would be better able to submit applications for funding. Are
there any questions?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Questions by council?
I don't believe so, sir. Thank you very much.
MR. McCARTHY: As soon as the application is ready, I
would like to receive one. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We'll be looking for you.
MR. MIHALIC-- Would you like to move on, or would you like
to ww
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That was it?
MR. MIHALIC: That was it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. What's the pleasure of the
council?
MR. VACCARO: I don't know that there's any action the
council needs to take, is there?
MS. SAUNDERS:
one.
Well, we have to approve their budget, for
MR. VACCARO:
MR. DINUNZIO:
applications --
MR. THIRION: Second.
THE COURT REPORTER:
the motion.
Okay.
I move we -- we accept the funding
I'm sorry. I didn't catch the end of
MR. DINUNZIO: Move that we accept the funding
application for the Tourism Alliance.
MS. SAUNDERS: For three years or for one?
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April 9, 2001
MR. DINUNZIO: Just one.
MR. VACCARO: Just one. That's all we're asking for.
MR. MIHALIC: You don't have the money to do three years.
You can only one.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. We have a -- we have a mo --
MR. THIRION: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We have a second. Discussion by the
council?
THE COURT REPORTER: Who was the second, please?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Jerry Thirion.
MR. THIRION: The --just for clarification, the motion does
not involve any special events, though.
MR. DINUNZIO: It was just acceptance of the budget -- of
the proposal.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
Opposed by the same sign.
Motion carries 8-0.
That does take us to 7(B); right?
MS. SAUNDERS: Mr. Chairman, perhaps we could approve
the grant application guidelines subject to minor corrections by
staff and Tourism Alliance so that it doesn't come back and
there's no reason to go further.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, Ms. Saunders. Thank you
for catching that.
Do we have a second to that motion?
MR.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
DURKIN: I'll second it for discussion.
VACCARO.- Will this go back to the Alliance --
SAUNDERS: Yes. My--
VACCARO: -- and then back to -- from there where?
SAUNDERS: What I'm proposing--
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April 9, 2001
MR. MIHALIC: Board of County Commissioners for final
approval. It would have to go to the board for final approval.
MS. SAUNDERS: But if it comes back to the board for -- if it
comes back through the tourism -- TDC for final approval, then it
won't be finally approved until June, and you're going to be --
MR. MIHALIC: We would hope that you would approve it
contingent on a few changes so we can bring it directly to --
MS. SAUNDERS: That's what I'm suggesting we do right
now, that we approve it contingent upon --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That's what Ms. Saunders is
suggesting, and I am seconding that for discussion.
MR. VACCARO: Is there a way to restrict what changes can
be made? I mean, you can send it out yellow and it can come
back green. I don't know. I like it like it is, but crossing the T's
and dotting the I's and doing little punctuation work, if it would
get restricted to that, I think in concept it's -- it's good.
MS. SAUNDERS: That would be my understanding also. I
think in concept it's appropriate. If there are what I would call
minor changes, but not changes in substance, then it doesn't
have to come back through us.
MR. DINUNZIO: I've got a question. Is staff and the Tourism
Alliance working in concept and harmony on this?
MR. MIHALIC: Yes. The Tourism Alliance has a special
events committee. They have reviewed this. They have approved
this. It just never made it through the board, and now some
people, I guess, have some questions, and that's fine.
MR. DURKIN: It was reviewed. It was not approved by that
committee or -- and it hasn't -- it has just been reviewed by the
executive committee of the Tourism Alliance. It has not been
approved by either committee yet.
MR. MIHALIC: Oh, I thought--
MR. DURKIN: There are some questions. We're not that far
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April 9, 2001
off, but there are some -- MS. SAUNDERS: Are they substance -- questions of
substance or--
MR. DURKIN: It would be -- it would be my preference that it
not be approved at this point until we have recommendations
also from the county attorney.
MS. BUYSSE: It seems a little premature to give a little bit
of carte blanche there.
MS. EICHHORN: I'd like to interject there. After the special
event committee reviewed the application, I spoke with all the
special event committee members and made the recommend --
recommended changes that all of them had to make. And as far
as I was under the impression, everyone was fine because I had
made the changes that all of them had made -- given me. So I
had not heard further -- anything further from any special event
committee members about any other changes.
MR. DINUNZIO:
ago did this happen?
MS. EICHHORN:
What was that time frame, Jane?
Three weeks ago.
How long
MR. DURKIN: Jane, there was a meeting where we got
together and we -- and you addressed it, and we received that
back last week. Again, there were some typos, and there were
still some further questions that the -- that committee had after it
was finished, whether or not there was a little misunderstanding
here and there. But, again, I think that would -- still like to
review it and, again, by the Tourism Alliance. The executive
committee really would like to have the opinion of counsel on --
and that's -- it's not -- you followed pursuant to what you were
instructed. We're questioning whether or not there are certain
items in -- that may be out of line with the Florida State Statute.
MR. MIHALIC: Well, we'd like to expedite that review.
MR. DURKIN: We'll do it as fast as --
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April 9, 2001
MR. MIHALIC: If the attorneys review it, can your board or
executive committee review it so we can move this ahead? MR. DURKIN: Absolutely.
MR. MIHALIC: Okay. I mean, is that satisfactory to the TDC,
that when the attorney's office reviews it and --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm comfortable with it.
(Several speakers speaking at once.)
MR. VACCARO: And it'll go back to the special events
committee at that time; is that what you're saying?
MR. MIHALIC: I think the executive committee of the
Tourism Alliance is who it would go to.
MR. VACCARO: But it would still have to go to the special
events committee. It's a special events application; is that
correct?
MR. DURKIN: Or it actually can go to the executive
committee of the Tourism Alliance at this point. Either way.
MR. MIHALIC: So we'd like to expedite that review and the
attorney's office review too.
MR. VACCARO: In concept -- I mean, are we talking --
MR. DURKIN: In concept we're -- Gene, we're probably 85
percent there.
MR. VACCARO: That's good enough for me as long as it goes
back to the executive board.
MR. MIHALIC: And then the final approval will be the TDC -- I
mean the BCC.
MR. PERCEL: Mr. Chairman, just one second. I just wanted,
Mr. Vaccaro, to clarify one thing. The special events committee
is a subcommittee of the Tourism Alliance. So as Mr. Durkin
suggests, the executive committee does have authority over the
subcommittee, so we can resolve it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Fine. Any further discussion by
the members of the council?
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April 9, 2001
All in favor signify by saying aye.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Aye.
MR. VACCARO: Aye.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Aye.
MS. SAUNDERS: Aye.
MR. THIRION: Aye.
MR. DURKIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
MS. BUYSSE: Opposed.
MR. DINUNZIO: Aye.
Opposed by the same sign.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The motion carries 6-2. We had two
dissenters.
All right. Miss McCarty, Item 7(B).
MS. McCARTY: Good evening, Chairman Carter and
Members of the Council. I believe you all have a copy of the
marketing plan for the film commission for the coming year with
a budget attachment, and whatever your pleasure is, if you'd like
to go through that, if you'd like me to, we can address it section
by section. Or if you want to bring up questions right now,
whatever your preference I'll follow that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Questions on the part of council?
MS. BUYSSE: Well, I see you have an -- you have an income.
You have an income, so you -- this income will be returned to the
TDC.
MS. M¢CARTY: No.
MS. BUYSSE: No.
MS. McCARTY: No. That's -- part of the funding application
is -- is salary included.
MS. BUYSSE: But you have an extra $26,000. You have an
income of $26,000.
MS. McCARTY: I'm not following you. Where?
MS. BUYSSE: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm looking at the wrong -- the
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April 9, 2001
wrong thing. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
MR. VACCARO: Would you mind working for twenty-six,
Maggie?
MS. BUYSSE: I apologize.
MR. VACCARO: Save a few bucks.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That's all right. No problem.
Questions of Ms. McCarty?
MS. SAUNDERS: Yeah. Where is -- I'm not certain I
understand where this is budgeted at this time. Is it under the
Tourist Development Council in budget, or is it back in the
general funds budget?
MS. EICHHORN: No. It falls under the TDC dollars.
MS. SAUNDERS: Then do you administer it, or is it being
administered separately?
MS. EICHHORN: Leo Ochs, the Public Services Administer
(sic). It falls under his regime.
MS. SAUNDERS: Maggie, when you were here last, I think
we specifically asked for you to tell us what nonlocal outside
projects were brought to the area versus the ones that are -- you
know, you're holding their hand here, which is fine. But what
specifically is being brought in? Can you give us data on that?
MS. McCARTY: Sure. And, in fact, later on I'll be doing my
presentation -- actually my status report on the past six months.
Also, in the backup material, you'll see that I have delineated
between local production and production that has just been
generated through the film office. There's two different colors in
there.
MS. EICHHORN: That's in the quarterly report.
MS. McCARTY: Yeah.
MS. SAUNDERS: Since we're voting on this now rather than
then, can you just give me a rough idea of -- proportion-wise, is it
-- under the dollar amounts that you're saying you brought, is it
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April 9, 2001
25 percent of your time that's spent on projects that are new to
the area, 50 percent?
MS. McCARTY: That are outside the area?
No. I'd say probably 75 to 80 percent of my time is outside.
MS. SAUNDERS: New projects that would not have been
here if you had not been here?
MS. McCARTY: Yes.
outside the area.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
For the leads that have come from
Comments on the part of council?
MR. THIRION: I move approval.
MR. VACCARO: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And that would be for this year. We
have a motion to approve. We have a second. I understand that
would be for this year; am I correct?
MR. MIHALIC: Fiscal year '02.
MS. McCARTY: '02, coming up.
MR. MIHALIC: For the next fiscal year.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Fine. I might suggest that for 2003,
that we might want to move this under the Tourism Alliance.
MR. VACCARO: We've kind of been down that road.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And that way they could work -- she
and Kathy Prutos could work together and do that. It's only a
suggestion. I don't want to muddy the waters here. If you want
to take it up next year, fine. I'm okay with it this year. I won't
have to worry about it next year because I won't be the chair.
But I will probably see it at some point in time.
MS. BUYSSE: We still have to vote on it.
MS. SAUNDERS: I concur.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Are we okay with that, or do you want
to just keep it and deal with it this year and wait until next year?
MS. BUYSSE: I think we should deal with it this year.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. All right. I have a motion. I
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April 9, 2001
have a second. Any other comments?
Do we have any public speakers?
MR. MIHALIC: No, sir.
MR. OCHS: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. For the record, Leo
Ochs, Public Services Administrator. Could I get a little
clarification then on that continuing contract decision? Because
that's obviously, as you know, a contract between the Board of
County Commissioners and Ms. McCarty as the film
commissioner/independent contract; three-year agreement, two
one-year renewals after the initial term. So I would think we
would need some action from the county commission to formally
amend that contract if you want to terminate that sooner than
the original term.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So what does it carry through now?
What is the term length?
MR. OCHS: It runs on your fiscal cycle, October I through
September 30. So we -- we are here this evening asking for
budget authorization for the coming fiscal year, September '01 --
excuse me -- October 1st of '01 through September 30 of '02. At
that point you will have one more --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Extension.
MR. OCHS: -- renewal term available to exercise in the
agreement. If you don't want to do that, then --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'm not going to touch that. I'm going
to leave that alone. Thank you for the clarification.
So we have the motion on the floor for 2001 through 2002.
And we have a first; we have a second. Any further discussion by
the council?
Hearing none, all in favor signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
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April 9, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 8-0.
MS. McCARTY: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, Maggie.
Okay. Now, we're down to Category 8(C).
MS. SAUNDERS: No. 7(C).
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Would you believe 7(C)?
MR. MIHALIC: Marco Island Film Festival.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Reporter, how are you doing?
(A discussion was held off the record.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Let's talk about 7(C), Marco
Island Film Festival, final festival report and then the special
event funding request of 150,000.
MR. DAILEY: Good evening. I'm -- my name is Maury Dailey.
I'm on the board of directors for the Marco Island Film Festival,
and I appreciate the opportunity to be here. This is the fourth
year of being here, and we've all grown through the various
issues and situations of-- surrounding special events, and it's a
growing process for everybody.
To start off with, before going through the presentation, I
just would like to let you know -- I think it's pretty obvious, but
just in case somebody doesn't know, we are all volunteers. We
try to hire professionals where we need to to augment what we
don't know, what we can't do. But basically for three successful
events we have had volunteers running the ship.
To start with, the Marco Island Film Festival overview is the
beginning of this, and the -- the first event that happens during
the film festival -- and we're going to go very quickly because I
think you've all heard this before. But we opened with a movie
on the beach this year; it was The Amodi Girls (phonetic), and
from there there's movies -- there's a ton of movies that we bring
in. Along with each of these movies, there's either a celebrity
with it or the filmmaker or a producer, somebody that's usually
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April 9, 2001
attached with those films. Some of them are world premieres;
some of them are special presentations. This year we were very
fortunate in bringing in some pretty well-known celebrities
including Celeste Holmes, Ben Gazarra, Sean Young, Mario
Lopez, and Jason Priestly, among others.
As a part of the independent filmmaking program, we also
have a student filmmaking program that we started from the
beginning of the film festival, and that program has grown each
year. It now brings in films from students all over the country.
That's gone through a process of elimination of judging until it
gets down to -- when it finally gets to the film festival, there's a
finalist. And some of the schools represented here are shown,
which include a school from Detroit, International School of
Brussels, Boston University, Indiana University, Brigham Young
University, and some others.
In addition to the student filmmaking program, during the
2000 event we expanded into what we called the Kid Fest, a film
essay contest, which we solicited students -- 33,000 counties'
students to participate in this program where there were
selected films. The students would go in, and they'd be able to
write an essay, submit it to the film festival, and receive reward
money or some money back for that.
We expanded in the year 2000 beyond Marco. We had a full
venue with two theaters at The Pavilion before they closed. We
also had activities at Barnes 8, Nobles up at Waterside, an event
at Eagle Creek, and we also did some things at Fiddler's Creek.
We expand -- we expect to do the same for next year, in case
you're interested.
The -- getting to the facts and figures on the event, we have
each year that we've come before you said what we used as our
basis because we don't have anything else out there that we
think we can use. We've asked for feedback from parties, and
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April 9, 2001
we still continue to go back to the audience survey that we use.
In front of you on the screen is a survey that is given to each
person. We get a 75 percent participation rate, which is very
high in getting response on surveys. So the information I'm going
to present to you is based on those surveys, based on tickets
sales and the -- based on tickets sales and on the other
information.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Is that someone's cell phone that's
talking to them?
MR. DURKIN: I believe that's Jane's.
MR. DAILEY: We have -- anyway, we extrapolate 8500
attendees were at this year's event. Also, from the survey -- the
survey said that 37 percent of those that were participating in
the survey were from out of county. They were out-of-county
visitors. The out-of-county visitors, as far as accommodations
go, 14 percent of out-of-county visitors to the event commuted;
47 percent of those out-of-county visitors stayed -- rented a
private condominium or a home during the time while they were
here for the festival; only about 11 percent of those that
responded to the survey said that they were staying at hotels; 6
percent said they stayed with friends; 22 percent said nothing,
didn't fill that blank out, in the survey.
Based on the ballot -- based on the survey information, we
came up with 3306 room nights, used $150 a night to come up
with a $495,000 figure. We also came up with ancillary spending.
Using US Travel Data Center as a reference, $70 dollars per
attendee at 8500 attendees came up to five ninety-five with
something over a million dollars in monies returned back in room
night and ancillary funds. That is --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Excuse me. Before you go further --
and you may have to go back to the other slide -- I want to know
bottom line from tax -- tourist tax dollars, what did we get out of
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April 9, 2001
that.
MR. DAILEY: You're about to get that.
That's right on target with what we're going to give you next
here. What we're saying is that for the money that was spent --
eighty-seven five was spend last year. Just in the category of
room nights and ancillary spending, there was a little over a
million dollars, but that's only part of the story.
The other part of the story is that there was a media impact,
and this is something that's been building up over now having the
third year of this event, not only from this event but from building
up the event over the years. We had AP wire coverage where
there were a number of national press releases going to some
2900 outlets throughout the country on several issues. The Ed
Shaw National radio program was broadcast at the event.
We had Lifetime TV cable. Nancy McKeon received an
award at the film festival. She just happened to be taping
something about her lifetime portrait, and she mentions the
Marco Island Film Festival. Lifetime has been replaying this
thing, so there's been a lot of media attention just on that. I wish
we could say we planned it, but we didn't.
We have a lot of -- we have links to Web sites now over the
last three years with festivals and filmmakers. Of course we
have ad placements and film industry articles on a national level.
On the state level, there are press releases. On the state level,
rack card distribution. Actually, a fairly significant figure is three
months' worth of 300 screens at Regal Cinema in this part of
Florida contributing quite a bit of exposure to the film festival
and to Collier County. On local -- on a local level, Media One did
5790, 30-second spots worth a value of $289,500. There were a
number of live remotes with the Fort Myers TV stations, radio
spots, magazine articles, and letters totaling 442,000 of
exposure.
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April 9, 2001
When you add the national exposure, state exposure and
local exposure, just the media impact alone is over 2 1/2 million.
If we bring back in the lodging and ancillary at a million -- a little
over a million, you're talking about 3.6 million.
There's been healthy conversation about room nights, and
we welcome that conversation. We're looking at trying to see if
we can hire somebody to come in and help us with that. Even if
you were to take out the room night portion, if you questioned
that at all, you're still a pretty healthy number return for your
eighty-seven five that you invested. That's the portion of the
review of the 2000 event.
The 2001 event -- I'll go on unless you'd like to stop here and
ask questions on --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Questions by council? I still don't
think I got my question answered, and that's what I want to
know. If I take -- you know, what is our tourist tax, 3 percent? If
you take that three times what? Can I take that three times a
million nine somewhere and get a number that's verified by the
tax collector that says, you know, that's what came back into
TDC dollars? And I don't see a number there that even tells me
how much of that came back. I mean, it's a very pretty picture,
and I can understand the value, but I want to know the green in
the bank.
MR. VACCARO: Mr. Chairman, one question I have, and I've
had it -- I'll ask it again, I guess, until I get an answer, and there's
probably one out there. It seems like we've been at this about
ten years, and the original criteria for funding these kind of
events -- or the intention of the money was for seed money. I
don't know if that's changed. If it has, somebody tell me. If it
hasn't, why does everybody keep coming back year after year
after year for funding? Is it seed money or isn't it?
MS. BUYSSE: Well, it's supposed to be seed money, and
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April 9, 2001
then we keep it up for a few years until they're on their own.
MS. SAUNDERS: On a decreasing basis if we can is what --
at least my intention.
MR. DURKIN: Decreasing.
MS. SAUNDERS: Decreasing each year.
MR. VACCARO: Has that criteria changed? Is it --
MR. MIHALIC: There is no written criteria. That was the --
essentially what the Tourist Development Council wanted to use
it for. So there was no written criteria that mandates that.
MR. DAILEY: As a matter of fact, I think, Greg, from previous
studies you've done, I think you had said at one time Palm Beach
County regularly contributes TDC funding for that event. And if I
remember right, Monroe County has also decided not just the film
festival, but contributing to cultural events continuously; is that --
MR. MIHALIC: There are many counties that have cultural
events, different percentages. And you saw at your workshop
Sarasota has a lot of cultural events they decided to fund. Lee
has less cultural events. Palm Beach -- each county individually
can decide what percentage of their total funding and what
criteria they want to use to fund cultural events.
MS. EICHHORN: In the application that we have, we have a
four-year funding, and the percentage goes down each year. So
it was --
MR. MIHALIC: The proposed application.
MR. DURKIN: Assuming in the proposed application that
there is a plus-and-minus error of 15 percent, as I stated earlier,
that is the seed money would go down.
MR. MIHALIC: So right now it's up to your own discretion.
MS. SAUNDERS: And right now in order to fund this or
anything else, we would be digging into the advertising and
promotion reserves because we -- substantially.
MR. MIHALIC: Yes, you would.
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April 9, 2001
MR. DAILEY: I guess that one thing to be said here is that --
and I know that there is a philosophical -- it takes a while to
understand this. This year I think would be probably the best way
to describe the beginning of what should be a good return on the
money of the county in that you've funded now three years of this
event. The word is finally out there on a national level now to
the extent that the film festival office is getting -- will get calls
from national people asking about Collier County. They heard
about the film festival from the first year. Now they're asking
two or three years later, four years later, what's going on with
Collier County. We've had a very good relationship with the film
office for Collier County. We work together to try to bring
business to the county.
MR. DINUNZIO: Excuse me. It's been funded for the last
three years. In the previous years, I think the record will indicate
that you weren't profitable in running the event; however, last
year you were, according to the income statement I have. MR. DAILEY: That's correct.
MR. DINUNZIO: So it would seem that the seed money, if
you will, that the TDC has provided has helped the Marco Island
Festival get to where it is today to a profitable event.
MR. DAILEY: That's correct. You're absolutely right. The
point from this point forward is only what the county wants to
capitalize on this event, if the county wants to contribute
towards the event in a way that helps the county beyond that.
It's -- it's your decision. If you'd like, I can go on to this coming
year and have further discussion.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Councilmembers?
Okay. I don't hear any noises down here either way.
Before you go to that, I have seven o'clock, and I promised the
recorder (sic) at seven we'd take five. Let's do that, and then
you can present your second half. You're not going to do that in
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April 9, 2001
two seconds.
(A break was held.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right.
need to bring this meeting back to
order. We've all had a quick break.
Ladies and gentlemen, we
Let's continue. We are on
Item 7(C), Item No. 2, Marco Island Film Festival. They're going
to make a presentation on their funding request for the year 2000
-- actually it's '01 and '02 -- well, it's '01. I'm sorry. It's the fall
this year. It's 2001.
MR. DAILEY: And, actually, Chairman Carter, I'd like to try to
answer a question that you had before. The question, if I
understand what you asked about, was if we take the 3 percent
tax times the room night revenue, we're coming up with a
number just under 15,000 of returned bed tax. So we spent --
there was an $87,500 investment that was made by the county.
There was about 15,000 that came back in addition to the media
impact stuff that we talked about.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you.
MR. DAILEY: You're welcome.
MS. SAUNDERS: Maury, one other quick question. Do we
collect tourist dollar taxes on the 48 percent, I think you said,
that stay in condos that rent?
MR. DAILEY: Yes. Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The only ones we probably can't catch
are the private homes.
MR. DAILEY: Private homes, staying with friends.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We haven't been able to do that one
yet.
MR. DAILEY: Starting with the 2001 event, there's a chart in
front of you that I think is very important and pertinent to this
and to -- actually not --
MS. BUYSSE: Can you put it a little bit in focus?
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April 9, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: It is what it is.
MR. DAILEY: It is what it is. To start with, this is from the
Travel Industry Association of America. It's a survey, studies
that they've done from 1999, 1998. It shows the purpose,
activities while that -- why are people traveling. It's incredible to
say that shopping is the number one reason that people are
traveling. The second is outdoor. Third is historical museums,
historical reasons and museum. The fourth and fifth are beaches
and cultural events/festivals. They actually tied. And then it
goes down from there. So what we're hearing and talking about
are things and reasons why people would want to come to the
area to spend money and -- and pay our sales tax.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I don't think this would be a true
picture for Florida.
MR. DAILEY: This is a U.S. Resident.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Thank you.
MR. DAILEY: Sure. Proposed funding for this year's event is
an aggressive program, moving forward, trying to capitalize on
what we've done so far with the -- with the budget that you see in
front of you.
You've also received a breakdown of that that looks something
like this (indicating) in your packet. The public relations
breakdown talks a little bit about what that is, paid
advertisement, ad placement, and it shows where and what that
kind of ad placement would be. There's also film industry special
guest, which is like what we've discussed before.
This year we also have an item in there office equipment,
film equipment, rentals, and then administrative. In particular on
the administrative, I'd like to note that one of the things we're
excited about trying to do is we were at a -- the Tourism Alliance
meeting last week, and we really had a good conversation about
trying to -- we want to get these numbers and the relationship
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April 9, 2001
back to you on these numbers.
We know that the Tourism Alliance uses a party to -- to
validate what they're spending, and you're comfortable with that.
We're -- we're looking at trying to say, "If you're comfortable with
that approach, then why aren't we using the same way or going
that same direction?" It costs money to do that. We're
volunteers. The monies that we get we prefer to use spending it
to get the rest of the event going, but we likewise understand
that it would be a healthy thing for us to do for the county and for
funding of the event. So in the administrative there is
professional services there to try to address those issues.
This is our wish list and -- again, and we're looking to try to
capitalize on what we've done before.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Do you have a comparison of what
your wish list is this year against what we gave you last year and
how you spent it, in one picture?
MR. DAILEY: I -- I don't believe so. Jane, do you remember
seeing something in there? MS. EICHHORN: No.
MR. DAILEY: I don't believe so. I know that we -- as I said,
the office equipment, film equipment rental, and administrative
professional services, all of those three items are new items this
year that were not involved last year. We've increased the ad
placement some from last year. If you remember when we -- we
were going through the process and, unfortunately, we were
before the bodies later and were unable to secure some of the
advance ads that we needed to secure. This year we're trying to
-- we're in time to do that.
And we're -- we've added a little bit more -- I think in the
neighborhood of $5,000 more -- for the film industry guests to try
to continue to capitalize on getting the best that we can for
celebrities for the area. So those would be the areas that we've -
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April 9, 2001
- some that we've beefed up and others are brand-new items.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: If you want to do a comparison, Board
Members, you have to -- I'm sorry the pages are not numbered.
But if you take the second page of last year's report, under
expenses you may get some insight there if I'm looking and
comparing apples with apples.
MR. DAILEY: Yeah. And I -- Chairman Carter, I believe that
some of those -- I think that's a pretty close analogy. I think that
the county funds were augmented, though, with other funds we
brought in, so there may be some areas that are not quite that
true. But I believe in a general sense that's correct.
MR. THIRION: Are there any funds in the request this year
that were denied last year?
MR. DAILEY: No. This is a stand-alone.
This year's event for 2001 is for 2001. We have nothing to deal
with in the previous events.
MR. THIRION: What is the expense line for $120,000 outside
the county for marketing?
MR. DAILEY: The backup of that, Councilman, is -- I don't -- I
don't have that answer, actually. Pat?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You need to come to the mike. You
may come to the one at the right, whatever's your pleasure.
Whatever's easier.
MS. BERRY: Pat Berry, Marco Island Film Festival. I'm
sorry. I don't know the question.
MR. THIRION: The question is, on the -- on the -- on the
expenses for this year, there's a line item, marketing out of the
county, 120,000.
MS. BERRY: And what --
MR. THIRION: What is that for? I know marketing, but is
there a breakdown of it anywhere?
MS. BERRY: Yes, there was. I'm sorry there's -- I don't have
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April 9, 2001
the attachment. I think it was the additional for the television
and I -- I'm unprepared. I'm sorry. I have it in here somewhere,
and I don't have it coming out.
MR. DAILEY: Well, there's -- there's ad placement.
MS. BERRY: Right.
MR. DAILEY: I mean, you know that's coming out of there.
There's --
MS. BERRY: Right. Well, I guess it's the other additional
things that aren't covered, like postage and advertis -- the
newsletters we do, all the miscellaneous things that aren't
covered -- that we send out of the county that aren't covered by
ad placement and that kind of thing. We -- we do newsletters on
a regular basis, that kind of thing.
MR. DINUNZIO: What's the payable figures of 16,000 on your
pro forma?
MS. BERRY: That's the balance that was left over at the -- at
that point when we did the budget. That is now down to 10,000.
MR. DINUNZIO: Balance of what?
MS. BERRY: The accounts payable from the first several
years, the first -- the previous years. MR. DINUNZIO: Okay.
MS. BERRY: We took -- we had a loss the first year, and
we're still pulling out from under that. For the next two years
we've been successful, but we still have a balance of accounts
payable there.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So I guess you're looking at a total of
about five eighty-one, if I look at the bottom line, if they've taken
another --
MS. BERRY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- 6,000 and change out of there.
MR. VACCARO: Can I ask how many other film festivals are
in the State of Florida?
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April 9, 2001
MS. BERRY: Roughly?
MR. VACCARO: Yeah.
MS. BERRY: Five or six.
MR. VACCARO: Five or six others, so maybe seven total
counting Marco Island Film Festival? MS. BERRY: Yeah.
MR. VACCARO: Okay. Any--
MS. BERRY: Well, there's some small ones now that just are
beginning, but the one in Orlando, Miami, Lauderdale and -- Fort
Lauderdale, Palm Beach, Sarasota, and us make up basically the
MR. VACCARO: Didn't somebody mention Key West?
MR. DAILEY: No. All I mentioned, that the TDC in Monroe
County decided to have all their monies, this category, go to
cultural events.
MR. VACCARO:
in the --
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
Are any of those film festivals in October or
BERRY: No.
VACCARO: -- or around the same time?
BERRY: Lauderdale is after us. They're in November.
VACCARO: Okay.
MS. BERRY: Palm Beach is in the spring. I'm sorry, sir.
Miami is in February and January for Sarasota.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Explain to me, please, when you
mentioned behind on accounts payable, does that mean
somebody didn't get paid?
MS. BERRY: That means are vendors have been very kind to
us, and they've been working with us for the last couple years
and waiting for their money. And we promised to pay them, and
we've got it pretty well done.
MS. BUYSSE: I have a question. I see that this year you will
receive $55,000 in corporate sponsorship. In the new budget,
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April 9, 2001
you put 50,000 in corporate sponsorship. You have not increased
that. However, you are increasing the revenue to five hundred
and eighty-eight seven thousand (sic) from one hundred and
ninety-four. It seems to me that you should increase the
sponsorship, too, if you expect to be so much more successful
than last year.
MS. BERRY: You're correct.
MS. BUYSSE: But you are not.
MS. BERRY: I know. We -- we certainly should have.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: One thing I don't see here -- and I often
have asked this question of myself, so I'm going to ask it of the
council and of you-all.
What is the position of the Marco City Council? It is an event in
your area. It certainly has to benefit all of Marco City. I've never
seen any commitment on the part of Marco City to support this
event. Have you approached them? What is --
MS. BERRY: Absolutely. And that is a shame, I think. I
agree with you. The city council believes that if they support
this event, they'll have to support every event and every
organization and every fund-raising event that comes their way.
So they have taken a firm stand that they won't support any --
any organizations or events.
MR. DAILEY: I think also -- Chairman Carter, I think that as
much as you-all have belabored while we've anguished here
watching you belabor this issue, city council is almost in a
position of watching what happens at the county and saying,
"Maybe we shouldn't touch this with a 10-foot pole." It's a brand-
new city. That's only hypothetical.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Councilman Tarrant, as a councilman
in the City of Naples, how would you have addressed something
like this that was hosted by your city?
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Personally, with great skepticism
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April 9, 2001
because, Dr. Carter, we -- we take the position of -- generally
speaking on the council, and I've been there seven years -- that
we have to be extremely conservative and extremely careful
when we're talking about spending other people's money. And,
yes, we -- we give -- excuse me -- we give certain funds to 4th of
July and celebrations of that kind. But there -- there is a great
deal of caution on the part of city government in Naples when it
comes to dedicating taxpayers' money to things of this sort. And
that's not to denigrate the -- the effort that these people are
making. It's just simply that our head of our financial department
and our city attorney frequently caution us to -- to be very careful
in that regard.
MS. BERRY: To add to that, though, our city does give us in-
kind support, no cash dollars.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: To how much?
MS. BERRY: I've not totaled it, but we've utilized the police
department, some facilities of the city, different things like that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Do you think they would be willing to
do more in in-kind services? Is there an opportunity?
MS. BERRY: I guess we're going to have an answer right
now,
MR. DAILEY: Could we ask for --
MR. BOYCE: My name is Heyward Boyce. I live on Marco
Island. Glen Tucker could not be here today. Your charter, I
guess, does not permit a substitute for Glen. And I do not
pretend to speak either for Glen or for the city council.
I think the City of Marco Island takes a very similar view to
Councilman Tarrant in the City of Naples. The Marco Island Film
Festival is really Collier County-wide. It -- it's supported by the
TDC funding mechanism. That seems to work well for the Marco
Island Film Festival. And we support the efforts that Maury and
company put forward, and we do think it's a Collier County
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April 9, 2001
institution that reflects well on the county and does, in fact,
bring revenue to the entire county. Again, that's my personal
opinion. Thank you for the opportunity.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Thank you, sir. Do we have
other speakers, Mr. Mihalic?
MR. MIHALIC: No. That's it on this item.
MS. BUYSSE: Well, the -- I'm still looking at this number, and
it kind of doesn't work out for me, because last year we gave you
$87,000. You had a surplus of $26,000. So actually if we had
given you 60,000, you would have come out equal. And now you
are asking for 150,000 when already the 87,000 were too much
last time. And I still think that this sponsor and contribution
should be a little higher. Also, if you expect more people, you
should have more membership and sales, increasing that too. So
it seems that in your budget the only thing really that is
increasing in the revenue is our support.
MS. SAUNDERS: If I may, I've been a firm supporter of the
Marco Island Film Festival for many years. I go to it, and I enjoy
it. However, I don't -- and I don't blame you for asking. But I
really think as a TDC councilmember it's time for us to say, as
we've said all the way through, we tried -- we gave seed money
the first, second, third year. Maybe we give a little bit of seed
money this year, but I really think that we've -- we've done what
we can do, and the funding needs to come from elsewhere. And
you guys have done a great job in getting it there. I would be in
favor of, so that we don't cut it completely, maybe something like
$20,000 or so as a final grant this year so the county commission
hasn't pulled back. But I think that's -- that would do it, and that
should help some.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yeah. I don't want to -- please, don't
ever interpret -- I'm like Ms. Saunders -- that I'm against what you
do. I feel like I have a strong fiscal responsibility here, not only
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April 9, 2001
in this seat but as a commissioner, to look at these things and
ask myself if the philosophy or the culture, whatever term you'd
like to use, has been to start and gladly -- gradually diminish or
maybe have a support level at some point because of the overall
value to the community that I can consider adjusting in my
thinking on that. But you keep increasing the funding towards. I
have personally great difficulty with that, and I could not support
150,000. I hear a 20,000 number on the -- on the council.
Whatever is finally -- other councilmembers need to speak up and
share their thinking, but I can't support 150,000.
MR. VACCARO: Mr. Chairman --
MR. DAILEY: I think actually--
MR. VACCARO: I concur with -- I'm sorry, Maury. Go ahead.
MR. DAILEY: It actually started with yourself, that I thought
you had an interesting analogy that at eighty-seven five last year
we had the twenty-six profit. We came back saying, "Okay, we
could go along the line of matching that forward, or would the
TDC want to look at using the film festival as a -- as a platform in
conjunction with the Tourism Alliance that this is something that
sets a good image for the county?" We want to continue to get
the word out and capitalize on that. So going back to the other
idea that at eighty-seven five we generated the twenty-six in the
positive. Sorry. Go ahead.
MR. VACCARO: That's okay. Just something to concur with
some of the other comments. And all along I have looked at the
Marco Island Film Festival as a great asset to our county, and I
still do, and I want to see it continue. And I see it getting
stronger legs underneath it year after year, thanks to a lot of
good volunteers and hard work and TDC funding that's doing its
job. I also see there's a decreasing commitment from us, and
I've seen it that way from day one, but it hasn't occurred that
way.
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April 9, 2001
I would be in agreement with some of the other council
people here that it's certainly worthy of our attention and some
funding, but I think you're an organization of strength now and
have a resource in this community that will support you far better
than it has supported you in the past, especially without our
support to the tune of $150,000. So I would be supportive of a
number considerably less than that.
And if you come back next year, I would want to decrease it
again.
MR. DINUNZIO.' Greg, what was the amount that was
specifically -- the board approved last year, this council?
(Several speakers speaking at once.)
MS. SAUNDERS: That was forty-three.
MR. MIHALIC: Forty-three thousand.
MS. SAUNDERS: Forty-three five.
MR. MIHALIC: And they went to the Board of County
Commissioners, and they increased it.
MS. SAUNDERS: We justified -- we were comfortable with, I
think it was, forty-three five.
MR. DURKIN: We had deducted the $30,000 off for the
rooms in our point -- it was our point system.
MS. BERRY: Can I just add one thing? And you don't have to
follow other counties by any means. But Fort Lauderdale and
Palm Beach and Miami, all those people have been getting
funding from 10 to 15 years for their festival. Their TDC does
support them on a regular basis, not that you have to do the
same thing. But they don't look at it as seed money. They look at
it as an investment.
MS. SAUNDERS: Pat, what I'd look at it with that then -- and
I do agree with you -- is that the people to lobby would be the
Tourism Alliance. That's got to be part of their overall budget
that they --
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April 9, 2001
MS. BERRY: But they have a small budget.
You didn't help -- give them more money.
MS. SAUNDERS: I agree with you. But that's where I really
think if it's going to be continually funded, it has to come from --
we have to find a way to get money into that.
MR. DURKIN: I believe there's been a lot of effort in the last
three, four years, and I think it's something that I don't -- from
talking to the Marco Island people, they certainly especially don't
want to see this go away, and I certainly agree with that. I also
am in the same agreement. I have a problem with $150,000. I
will make a motion to contribute $50,000, and I would feel very
comfortable with that amount. And, again, next year, as Mr.
Vaccaro said, I probably would also want to see that slide back
or go away.
MR. VACCARO: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I got a motion, and I have a second.
Discussion on the board?
MS. BUYSSE: Well, I second it-- I mean --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You're in agreement? Jerry's head's
nodding. He's in agreement. I'm looking to my left now. Rhona,
how do you feel?
MS. SAUNDERS: I'll go along with it. I had pulled the 20,000
out of a hat. I'm happy to do 50,000, but I really would be
skeptical next year of much. We've got to find another way.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Commissioner-- Councilman Tarrant?
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: I agree with Ms. Saunders. I think
$50,000 is -- is very liberal and reasonable, and I would agree
with that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Moving down the line, do I have
an agreement to my right?
MR. VACCARO: (Nodded head.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I don't have a problem with that. All in
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April 9, 2001
favor of the motion signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 8-0.
MR. DAILEY: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir.
MS. SAUNDERS: Good luck.
MR. DAILEY: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: That takes us to Category "C"
museums, No. 8. And if you thought the last one was fun, hang
on, folks.
MR. MIHALIC: Can I make a statement before we begin this
section --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Sure.
MR. MIHALIC: -- Mr. Chairman? You know, we're working
with our budgets. We're working with our revenue accounts.
And even though in your agenda you see a number of 890,500, in
working with the management in budget office, there are some
accounts that we found in this category that are available. I
think the number is approximately $1.2 million that will be
available in this account this year.
MS. BUYSSE: Where did the money --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So that's total for Category "C"; right?
MR. MIHALIC: It came from older contracts that had never
been fully expended.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I got a million two totally to
consider here this evening; is that what I'm understanding?
MR. MIHALIC: Yes. A million two is the revenue and
carryforward for Category 'C.".
CHAIRMAN CARTER: All right. Jerry?
MR. THIRION: Yes. It's drawing kind of late, I think we all
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April 9, 2001
know, and I was just curious if -- what the council's flavor is
about -- and now I'm just jumping ahead here for No. 9, if we can't
just take and read that on our own. I hate to have somebody
hang around.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You want to -- you think that should be
a consideration? Do we need status reports? Is there any
particular reason why the county --
MR. MIHALIC: Is that your pleasure? You could certainly
just read them, and we don't have to make presentations on No.
9.
MR. THIRION: We're going to be here a long time on this
next one so ...
MS. SAUNDERS: I concur.
MR. MIHALIC: You want to defer those?
MR. THIRION: I hate to have somebody in the audience wait
to ''
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Do we have any speakers for that? I
guess the status reports we wouldn't.
MR. MIHALIC: No. All the speakers are for 8.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. If everyone is in agreement on
No. 9, can I have a motion?
MR. THIRION: And 10, I guess.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Nine and ten.
MR. DINUNZIO: What would Item 5 be?
MR. MIHALIC: The TDC request for funding?
MR. DINUNZIO: Yeah.
MR. MIHALIC: That's the packet that you had that just
talked about --
MR. DINUNZIO: Okay.
MR. MIHALIC: -- the guidelines we were going to hand out to
people as they come forward.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Thirion's suggesting we take 9 and
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April 9, 2001
10 into that motion, where we can all read that information.
MR. DURKIN: Did you make a motion? I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. I've got a first and I've got a
second. All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 8-0. Thank you. Nine
and ten are out of the way. Anybody that was here that thought
they had to make a report, we appreciate it, and we thank you.
Go home and have dinner.
Now we are to Category "C" museums. We have a total of
a million and two to work with, ladies and gentlemen. Proceed.
Mr. Ochs, you're going to talk about Collier County Museums?
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. Good evening again, ladies and
gentlemen. For the record, Leo Ochs, public services
administrator for Collier County. And I may as well kick this
thing off with a bang because I am here on behalf of the County
Museum System to request an authorization for the coming fiscal
year of approximately $1,240,000 for the continued operation and
development of the museum system.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Nice presentation, Leo.
MR. OCHS: Thank you, sir. The details of that budget -- I'll
just keep moving right along -- are included in your packet. And I
think as you review that with the notations that are made, you
will see that the primary new initiative for fiscal year '02 is the
opening of the Roberts' Ranch Pioneer Museum to the public
which would include a capital expenditure for the construction of
the visitor center at the Roberts' Ranch on property. And I would
be happy at this point to entertain any questions.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: When you're telling me you're looking
for a million two or whatever it was, you're only looking at A,
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April 9, 2001
right, or are you looking at all three?
MS. SAUNDERS: No.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
He's looking at A.
A only?
That's the only one I -- Why do I see $850,000 on my sheet?
MR. OCHS: There's two budget -- there's the original
proposal that was discussed with the board during the TDC
workshop, which was the million two. And then at the request of
Greg and Jane, they had asked us to prepare another budget, so
we did that at their request. But that is not our budget request
for fiscal '02.
MR. MIHALIC: We didn't realize we'd find any more money,
Commissioners. We asked them to prepare one within the
projected revenues that we had at that time.
MS. EICHHORN: Friday we just were made aware that we
had the additional funding.
MR. DURKIN: That's -- that's where your --just came up to
from your original eight seventy to $1.2 million?
MR. OCHS: My original request was 1.24. Okay. The eight
fifty was a number that we were asked --
MS. EICHHORN: Because of the --
MR. OCHS: -- to go to by the staff.
MS. BUYSSE: But you could live with it. You could have
been able to live with it. You could have been able to live with it.
MR. OCHS: No. I personally would not support that
recommendation. I'm sticking with our original staff
recommendation.
MR. VACCARO: Greg, let me ask you a question.
MR. MIHALIC: Yes.
MR. VACCARO: It looks pretty obvious, but I'm going to ask
it anyway.
MR. MIHALIC: Okay.
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April 9, 2001
MR. VACCARO.' Should we agree with this application of the
$1.2 million, then it leaves zero dollars for Naples Botanical
Gardens and Marco Island Historical Society; is that correct?
MR. MIHALIC: Yes, it does. But I'd like to reinforce what Mr.
Ochs said. They need $1.2 million to continue the activities that
they've been mandated by the Board of County Commissioners.
MR. VACCARO: Okay.
MR. MIHALIC: We asked them to prepare a lesser budget
because that's what -- the only amount of revenues we thought
we'd see. But they had originally submitted a $1.24 million
request.
MR. DINUNZIO.' The 1.24 represents --
MR. MIHALIC: Million-dollar request was their original
submittal.
MR. DINUNZIO: Wait. Represents a hundred percent of the
budget?
MR. MIHALIC: Yes, it does.
MR. VACCARO.' But this is, it sounds to me, like a legal
matter. If it's been mandated by the county commission that you
must operate under those guidelines that cost a million two,
what are we voting on?
MR. OCHS: Well, let me clarify. When I say "a mandate," the
county commission purchased the Roberts' Ranch property a
couple years ago with -- with, obviously, the intent of developing
that into the third branch of our museum system. What we are
doing in this budget request is continuing that development and -
- and attempting to open that branch of the museum to the public
in fiscal year '02. So, I mean, you can either leave the property
continue to sit there, or we can move forward and get it open.
And our staff is recommending to you and to -- subsequently to
the county commission that we begin to move forward on that
project.
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April 9, 2001
MS. SAUNDERS: In former years the operating expenses and
money -- much of the administrative costs were covered by the
general fund. We're getting slapped with this. And I must say
the operating expenses and personnel services seem to me to be
quite high, and I'm thinking particularly -- has anybody been to
the Museum of the Everglades? It's one room with a couple of
posters on the wall. I'm glad they've got something there, but I
can't imagine that we have to spend $160,000 on it. Couldn't a
volunteer run it?
I'm just--
MR. OCHS: No, ma'am.
MS. SAUNDERS: I think from where I am with TDC money
and some of the other projects that are here, that we have to tell
the county commission loud and clear that, at least as far as the
TDC is concerned, this is out of proportion. We're picking up
administrative and overhead costs which is not bringing tourists
to the county. I like the museums. In fact, I mostly like Roberts'
Ranch. If I look at the figures on all the other museums, they're
bringing 55,000 to 60,000 people here. That's not a tremendous
amount. That's not a destination for anybody. That's not filling a
single hotel room in the off-season, as far as I can tell.
So my first question I guess -- and it's not for you, Leo, really
-- is, Jim, Commissioner Carter, how do you think the county --
are they going to -- are we going to be overvoted on this on the
county commission? If we do say we want to cut this back, give
me your instinctive feel, if you can. I know you're --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think I'm going to go home. I don't
know. I really don't know. There is a feeling on the Board of
County Commissioners to do more for all of these categories
from the museum to the Botanical Gardens, I know A and B. We
do have some questions about the Marco Island Historical
Society. Within that, I mean, there's, like, $250,000 of land
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April 9, 2001
acquisitions that may be a questionable area to deal with, and
maybe Marco City can help with that. But even if I pulled that, I
would have $98,000 left.
We'll have some discussion, I'm sure, by the Board of County
Commissioners.
What other opportunities there are besides Category "C'
museums, as we talked this afternoon, I don't know. I do know
our budget will be under tremendous pressures from all
categories in county government this year. We are going to have
tremendous pressures in every area to do more, to do more. And
where do you take the knife and cut? I could say -- I don't know
exactly what's going to happen there. My feel is it's up in the air.
It could go -- they could override it, or they can say, "How can we
override it and let the Botanical Gardens and Marco Island go
without anything?".
MS. SAUNDERS: Then perhaps the best way we can serve
the county commission is to do what we feel is right and then
hope and lobby the county commissioners to say, "Here's what
we did and why" instead of trying to second-guess them.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I would recommend the Tourist
Development Council do what they think is right and look at
these categories.
MS. SAUNDERS: Then my recommendation would be very
strongly that we reduce the budget substantially on the Collier
County Museums to a point where the actual operating expenses
come out of it and go back to general funds. And that -- and
actually, also, that we not vote on any one of these until we've
heard the proposal on all three museums. MR. THIRION: Second that.
MS. BUYSSE: I just wanted to notice that the capital project
-- in this million two forty, there is a $265,000 for the visitor
center so --
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April 9, 2001
MR. OCHS: That's correct.
MS. BUYSSE: -- that would be part of that million two. I
don't know if we want to finance all that.
MR. DINUNZIO: Mr. Ochs, what would be the revenue that
the museum generates on an annual basis?
MR. OCHS: There's very -- I'll ask Mr. Jamro to give you the
details on that. I don't think it's very--
MR. DINUNZIO: I guess to phrase it like Mr. Carter would --
Commissioner Carter would be, you know, "Show me the green."
What's the return on the million two?
MR. JAMRO: Good evening. Ron Jamro, museum director.
It's a difficult question because we're really not, well, in the
revenue business. I mean, we're in the education business. You
know, we do, through the Friends of the Museum, generate -- the
cost of most of our events are underwritten by sponsors. When
we undertake a building project, we generally get good donation
of services in that regard.
The characterization of the Everglades City Museum as a
building with a couple of posters is totally incorrect. There's a
very healthy tourist population coming through there for a small
operation and a small town. It is totally run by volunteers --
mostly run by volunteers, and there's been a succession of
excellent art exhibits there and now a fine pioneer museum there
representing Everglades City. I suggest you visit it. You know,
we--
MS. SAUNDERS: We did two months ago.
MR. JAMRO: Well, then, you know, I rest my case. But it's --
it's a public service. We're a public services division, and that's
the name of our game.
MR. VACCARO: Ron, excuse me. Commissioner Carter, let
me -- let me ask a question. I'm a little confused. I'm very
supportive of the museum. I'd like to give them a million two
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April 9, 2001
right now and walk to the next one, but I'd go with empty
pockets and a lot of good I could do them. Is there an alternative
source? Is there a general budget that the county commission
oversees you can simply reallocate funding for this project?
Because I -- I'm very supportive of the Botanical Gardens. I think
as far as attracting out-of-season, out-of-county tourists to Collier
County, the Botanical Gardens will be fantastic. And I really
want to make a strong pitch towards that, but I can't, in any good
faith, vote on anything unless I know there is an alternative
source to fund the museum.
MS. BUYSSE: Well, there was an alternative source before
we had the TDC.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Mihalic.
MR. MIHALIC: You know, Commissioner, we do have an
amendment to the TDC ordinance that we're discussing right
now. It's in draft form. And that would reallocate some of the 2
percent money from 70 percent beaches to 30 percent other, to a
50/50 allocation. That would free up an extra $1.2 million for
advertising and promotion and for museums. And that obviously
could -- our real analysis was to split it, but obviously the
percentage would be really recommended by the Board of County
Commissioners and the TDC.
So that's a future available source once we're sure that the
beaches are adequately funded. And the ten-year projection
shows that they probably will be, but that's still being worked on,
so I don't want to rely on that right -- right now. But I think we
could probably free up about $1.2 million in additional monies per
year if we change the percentage allocation of the 2 cents from
70/30 to 50/50.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: When will that come to the
commission for discussion?
MR. MIHALIC: Well, I would say it's going to take at least 30
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to 60 days to bring an ordinance amendment forward. But that's
what that amendment would reflect, assuming the direction of
the board is to do that.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Does that change in allocation,
50/50, take into consideration the impact of a hurricane?
MR. MIHALIC: It does. Part of that would be to establish a
$4 million disaster reserve fund over several years, Mr. Tarrant,
and that would really be available to buffer a $20 million disaster
with state and federal funds that would come to us if such a
disaster occurred. So part of the proposal is long term to
establish this reserve fund, disaster reserve fund.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: I like Ms. Saunders' earlier
suggestion, I think, to hear all of the different elements of the --
MR. MIHALIC: I just wanted to throw that out now if that
was appropriate.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think we need to hear all that. I
struggled with some numbers this afternoon, but I'm going to
hold those comments until we hear everything.
MS. BUYSSE: What I would like to ask is, the difference in
allocation, doesn't it require vote by the -- by the Collier County
citizens?
MR. MIHALIC: No, it does not. It requires a supermajority
vote by the Board of County Commissioners. MS. BUYSSE: Supermajority.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Four out of five commissioners to
agree to make the change.
MR. MIHALIC: The ordinance can be amended at any time
with that vote.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Now, if I read the tea leaves, as I was
asked to do earlier, knowing the concern that the current
commission has for these items, it would not surprise me if we
got four out of five votes. It would not surprise me.
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April 9, 2001
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, if I might, just so I can be
perfectly clear and on record with the council, the staff is -- is
very supportive of the other applicants. We think they're great
projects. And it's difficult for us to stand up here and compete
with other projects that we think are very deserving. We're just --
you know, we're trying to abide by the rules, and my job is to tell
you what I think I need as a professional member of the staff to
operate that museum system in the manner that our citizens and
our county commission expect it to be done, so that's what I'm
going to do.
MR. VACCARO: Leo, what would you do if you were sitting
up here, knowing what you know?
MR. OCHS: I'd ask for a raise.
MR. VACCARO: No. I'm serious. I think you would have
certainly more insight as to alternative sources of funds, and you
-- you know what's going on with these other applications to a
certain degree. Put yourself in one of these seats, and what
questions would you ask and what's your tendency?
MR. OCHS: Well, again, you know, when I -- when I do a
quick analysis, financial analysis, as Greg pointed out, of the
existing TDC dollars in the three categories and you're sitting on
an $8 million reserve in your Category "A" and you've got all
these other applicants scrapping for dimes and pennies in
Category "B" and 'C" -- so, I mean, once you determine that that
Category "A" is financially sound, there's a point at which you
may want to look at some reallocation of those dollars.
I mean, the alternative, as Ms. Saunders said, is to go back
to a general fund operation, and certainly that's an option. But
there's -- and it preceded me, but there has to be a reason why it
-- why it went from there to the TDC in the first place. So maybe
it was to take some of the pressure off the general fund and to
acknowledge it -- the museum system as a -- as a way of
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April 9, 2001
promoting some more tourism in the county. But, as Mr. Carter
said, there's going to be a great deal of pressure this coming
year on the general fund. So I would suggest maybe you
consider that reallocation if, in fact, you're convinced that -- that
your Category 'A" projects are fiscally sound.
MR. DURKIN: I guess my problem is when I -- and, again, we
don't want to look at the three projects together, but I have to do
that. When I see an organization that has property donated
worth over $5 million, when I see property -- an organization that
has raised $3.2 million since last March, what are we doing,
guys? I mean, we -- we're giving money, and we're making
people very, very lazy. I have a problem with that.
MS. SAUNDERS: I agree.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
MR. OCHS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Let's hear the next one. That's Naples
Botanical Garden.
MS. QUINN: Hello. I'm Sondra Quinn, president and CEO of
the Naples Botanical Garden, and with me is Jan Eschauzier,
who is a board member and cochair of the capital campaign.
Thank you for the opportunity to present our project to you this
evening and to invite you to invest in the public/private
partnership, the Garden.
First, I wanted to do a very brief overview so you would
understand how our project request fits into the total context.
We were incorporated in 1994, and we have been committed to
building a world-class tropical/subtropical garden of the world
since then. In March 2000, a $5 million gift by the Harvey
Kapnick family and the Kapnick Foundation made possible the
purchase of 160 acres located at the intersection of Thomasson
and Bayshore Roads. Scheduled to open in the year 2004, the
Garden will provide a new tourist attraction as well as address
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April 9, 2001
the educational, environmental, and recreational needs of our
community.
Some of the volunteers working to bring this dream to a
reality include an 18-member board which -- who are listed in
Section 3, comprised of local business leaders, community
leaders, philanthropists, educators, and capt -- retired captains
of industry; a 20-person advisory committee representing
leadership from all aspects of the community; and over 135
volunteers from all areas of Collier County and some even from
Lee County.
The comprehensive marketplace analysis and a community-
needs assessment were conducted to define the need for
services, market potential, and the program plan, and the
complete study was in Section 4 of your materials.
Also, a capital and operating feasibility study were
conducted and indicated that the Garden possesses the
readiness and the leadership to achieve our financial goals.
Findings also support a strong public desire for the project and a
willingness to provide the financial support.
Wallace, Roberts & Todd, an internationally recognized
design team, produced the following conceptual master site plan:
This $70 million project will be phased over a ten-year period. It
is a 21st Century garden. The 21st Century garden is
aesthetically sophisticated. It has a global perspective, and yet
it focus on our community. It is culturally inclusive, interactive,
technologically advanced, and also sustainable.
The overall theme is tropical and subtropical plants. As a
living museum, it will address environments of Latitude 26,
cultural context of people and plants, and stewardship. Classic
Florida gardens serve as the entry point to introduce African,
Asian, Caribbean, and South American gardens.
And also we have the -- in the first phase, project
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components include the main entrance and Entry Boulevard, the
visitor center, the education center, events pavilion, a parking
grove, enlargement of the north lake on the property now, Florida
Habitat Gardens, a Children's Adventure Garden, Gardens of the
Five Senses, and the Cypress Cathedral. Costs for Phase I of this
project are $35 million, which include land acquisition, start-up
costs, infrastructure, gardens, and facilities.
And the first full year of operation is projected to have 2.4
million in expenses and 2.4 million in revenue. And I'd like to
break down what we project our revenue percentages to be: 54
percent for the first year in unearned revenues, which would
mean annual fund drive and grants. We project 46 percent in
earned revenue, which is 15 percent in admissions, which would
be general, schools, and group; 5 percent membership; 8 percent
in special events; 12 percent in rentals, weddings, special
exhibitions; and 6 percent in retail. We will be running a cafe and
also our garden store. We expect as the Garden matures that we
would increase our earned revenues and decrease our unearned
revenues.
The economic impact for Collier County is 35 new jobs, $25
million in design and construction costs, at least a hundred
thousand doll -- a hundred thousand visitors annually, and
contributing to neighborhood revitalization.
I know you're all sitting saying, "Okay. So how are you going
to meet tourist needs?" Well, a survey conducted in 1999 by the
Travel Industry Association of America indicated that 20 percent
of American residents went on at least one garden tour, visited a
botanical garden, attended a gardening festival, or participated
in some other garden-related activity while on a trip of 100 miles
or more in the past five years. Seven percent of their survey
respondents stated garden activities were their primary reason
for traveling; 9 percent said it was a secondary reason.
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Comparison of garden tourists to all U.S. Tourists indicate that
the profile is they're more likely to be female. They are more
likely to be older, married, college educated, and enjoy higher
median household income levels, 49,000, versus 46,000.
The Naples Botanical Garden is poised to become a major
year-round tourist destination, attracting both residents and
tourists from Florida and around the world. We will provide a
venue for blockbuster exhibitions, providing changing attractions
for tourists; present shoulder-season events such as "Chocolate,
Food of the Gods," "Money Does Grow on Trees," and '"~/ild About
Plants." We will promote year-round collaborative partnerships
with other Collier County attractions, hotels, restaurants, and
retailers to stimulate off-peak visitation.
And we will also compete as a tourist destination with other
Florida cities that have botanical gardens: Miami that has
Fairchild Tropical Gardens and Sarasota that has the Marie Selby
Botanical Garden. We will enhance Collier County as an eco-
tourism destination, support the classic Florida theme with
Florida Native Habitat Gardens and ethnobotanical exhibitions.
We will attract the off-peak, in-state vacationers and provide a
venue for spouses and families of convention attendees and also
provide a backdrop and platform for the performing and visual
arts through collaborative partnerships with other cultural
institutions.
Our 750,000 request is to develop and implement the Garden
Preview Project, which includes planting 3.5 acres of Preview
Gardens that showcase Florida's unique environment and a
Children's Adventure Garden; completing a 4,000-square-foot
World Garden Room in our existing building to present rotating
exhibits on exhibits yet to come in the Garden and traveling
exhibitions and also unique event space; and also to renovate
3200 square feet of existing building to create laboratory
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April 9, 2001
classrooms.
This next slide briefly shows you our existing building with
Bayshore to the left and Thomasson to the right where the
laboratory classrooms are located. The World Garden Room to
the top right you see is where we see extending the Florida
gardens so that they go out over the lake so that actually would
give all of Thomasson down to where Cypress Cathedral exists
some of the Florida gardens. And to the left right outside of the
classroom space, we envision the Children's Adventure Garden.
The Florida Discovery Garden is going to highlight native plants,
flowering trees, and palms. And the Children's Adventure Garden
will give children interactive hands-on experiential learning
opportunities.
The Garden Preview Project proposed building proponents,
the green part on the lower left is the World Garden Room and
the location of that is 4,000 square feet. In the upper right are
the two laboratory classrooms, 3,200 square feet. And up where
that little bromeliad is the parking lot.
The next slide shows the designs for the World Garden
Room. The green shows the exhibit areas for changing displays
of plants from around-the-world gardens. These are future
exhibitions that will be in the Garden, that we will be able to
orient people and then take them out onto the site; a recycled
water feature; 2,000 square feet of space for events and
meetings, and it'll hold 165 standing and 125 seated -- in fact,
I've got a rental already for next February if we"re finished -- food
and catering service area; and the women's and men's restroom.
The budget on this is Preview Gardens, 3.2 acres, a request
of $500,000 with the Garden matching at $150,000; the World
Garden Room completion, a request for a hundred thousand
dollars, and we will match that at $395,000; the laboratory
classroom renovation of 3,200 square feet, we're requesting a
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April 9, 2001
hundred thousand dollars and matching that at $168,000;
furnishings and equipment, we're requesting $50,000 for a total
of $750,000 request; our match at $713,000.
Completion of the project will enable the Naples Botanical
Garden to present previews of coming attractions, partner with
hotel convention trade to provide spouse and children programs,
and also offer unique space for events and services for tourists.
And we'll be able to do this within the next year.
The last slide is just to let you know that our total needs
prior to opening, for $35 million, we expect to raise 25 million
from private contributions. We would like to request, over the
future ten years, $750,000 a year for ten years. We expect to
have 1.5 million from state funds, from the cultural tourist --
tourism -- or the cultural facilities grant program, and a million
dollars from other grants, one specifically, the Cresky (phonetic)
Foundation Challenge Grant.
A ten-year commitment of $750,000 would mean that we
would be able to issue bonds to get the money now so that the
minute that the permits are received, which is early next spring,
we would be able to begin construction. Any further questions
on bonding -- my treasurer had to go to the theater, so he's the
specialist on bonding.
But with that, we conclude our presentation, and we request
that you consider it carefully. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Members of council?
MR. VACCARO: I have a couple of questions, and I don't
know if maybe Leo can answer. You will employee -- employ at
buildout 35 people?
MS. QUINN: Yes.
MR. VACCARO: And what --
MS. QUINN: That's what our projected --
MR. VACCARO: And what does the museum employ, Leo?
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I'm just curious.
MR. OCHS: Seven and a half FTE; seven full time, one part
time.
MR. VACCARO: Okay. Sondra, your admission prices for
locals as opposed to visitors to the Garden from somewhere else,
have you considered a break for local residents? MS. QUINN: Well, I --this is--
MR. VACCARO: Or is there a fee structure in place at all?
MS. QUINN: No. I'm just saying I've only been here for two
months, and so I'm going to ask Jan or ask some other staff
members -- or board members who are here. I don't know if we
have those projections.
MS. ESCHAUZIER: For the record, my name is Jan
Eschauzier. We are looking at a number of different packages.
Normally when you have membership rates, you have certain
break points, depending upon the membership level. Because we
will be receiving grants from either the state or the county, there
will be opportunities within the Garden to have free days or free
evenings where members of the community will be able to
participate.
There are many partnerships that the Garden will seek to
enact with other gardens and ecological organizations
throughout the state so that if you're a member of the Naples
Botanical Garden, you would automatically have either a
discount available to you at Selby Gardens or Fairchild Gardens
so that one could conceivably produce a package of garden
tours. We'll be working with a number of providers to put
together those kinds of -- of packages.
So I have to say that right now we're -- we have not looked
that far. We are simply putting together some of our fee
structures now, but there are any number of opportunities that
we can take advantage of so that we will enhance the travel
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opportunities for visitors, not only statewide but internationally.
MR. VACCARO: I guess what I'm -- my question -- and you
rephrased it a little bit -- is -- and I know you may not be able to
answer this, and I guess it's all in -- in the eye of the beholder.
But what's that ticket price going to be generally for a visitor
from out of town? Are we talking ten bucks to go through the
gardens? Are we talking $50? Are we talking a hundred dollars?
MS. QUINN: We're talking $6.
MR. VACCARO: Okay. And that's typical? You've made that
MS. QUINN: Yeah. That's -- and if you look at the study
that's in your notebook, that had all been done as part of that
study in doing comparisons of what other gardens charge and
basically looking also at other charges in an area so that you are
not priced so that you look like you're a value.
I would say to you, though, my former job in Orlando, one of
the things we did when we had county and city funding -- which
we had about $31.5 million from three counties in the city for a
new project -- they, in fact, did -- we worked something out where
we made passes available, which they distributed since there
was a lot of public funding. And if they wanted to distribute
those to people who were not able to afford the $6, it was really
basically up to them on how they did that. I think we're very
open at this time to work out different kinds of programs.
MR. VACCARO: Yeah. I think if you could do that, it would
certainly endear the Garden to the local residents, especially
those with big families that necessarily can't afford to go out and
MS. QUINN: That's why membership's such a good deal. It's
$35, and you can come 363 days a year, everybody in the family.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: I appreciate Mr. Vaccaro raising
that issue. I think it's very good. And I hope that you can avoid
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ticket creep because a lot of these things start off at a very
reasonable level, and a year or two or three goes by, and pretty
soon they're no longer affordable for a lot of local people. We
see that in certain types of events in -- in and out of the city. So
that's a very good point.
But I -- you know, I'm -- I think you've got a potentially
marvelous program here, and I hope that you have some good
ideas about mosquito control because I'll tell you, there's going
to be about seven months of the year that are going to be
absolutely intolerable unless you have large screened-in areas or
some magic wand that you can handle the mosquitoes with. MS. QUINN: Thank you for your advise.
MS. SAUNDERS: I'm intrigued with your comment that if you
can get a ten-year commitment, you can raise bonds at this
point. That's going way beyond what we're able to do, I suspect.
But that is an interesting approach I think, and I'd encourage you
to talk -- you know, after we've made whatever decision we do,
to raise that with whatever was appropriate in the county in
order to make that -- see if that is possible.
MS. QUINN: And as I said, Dick Benson, who is the treasurer
of our board, is most pro -- you know, proficient in that area, and
so we would be happy to do that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: If I just kicked out the last item on
your budget, I think it's about 50 grand, it seems to me that if you
had your full amount of money, they'd match it dollar for dollar.
That intrigues me. As a public/private partnership, that always
intrigues me. However, we all here have a numbers problem this
evening.
I'm going to just share some thoughts. You-all tell me,
"Carter, you should have been home an hour ago," or "maybe it
has some possibilities." First of all, Greg, I believe you told me
that if we made a change in the ratios, that we might have a
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million two. Is that a onetime thing to work with or --
MR. MIHALIC: No. We'd have a continuing, annual,
additional amount of money of $1.2 million for all the other
activities, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Let me take that number for a
moment, and what if -- looking at what we currently have -- and I
believe that's a million two eleven approximately. If-- if we
never touched anything here and you told me what's available is
about a million -- am I right on that? Somewhere I had a number
that was about a million.
MR. MIHALIC: We have about a million two, but that's really
not sustainable. I would say next year that's going to drop to the
$900,000 range because .-
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. A million two. If I use that
number and I did the following: If I provided $850,000 for the
museums, I provided $98,000 for the Marco Island Museum (sic},
if I provided $250,000 for the botanical gardens, I think that
comes to, I think, about a million two. Check my math on that.
Am I close?
MR. MIHALIC: Yeah, I think so. Let me -- give me a minute
here.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Everybody's figuring.
MR. MIHALIC: Do it again, Mr. --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: If I took $850,000 for museums, 98,000
for the Marco Island Historical Society, if I took 250,000 for the
botanical gardens, I would use what I had today for this year.
MR. MIHALIC: Yes, sir, 1.19 million.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Then if I could get the adjustment from
the county in the other formula, I could bring the museums up to
where -- what -- the request that they were asking, which is about
a million two; right? And I could bring up the botanical gardens
to the seven fifty and still have some additional funds left over.
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MS. BUYSSE: Yes. And you'll have 300,000 left.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: 300,000 left. Would that be a
possibility, one, to deal with what we know tonight and with the
caveat that says we get the other, we could apply it? And,
therefore, the botanical gardens would have the match for a
year; the museums would have their needs met; Marco Island
Historical Society would have their administrative dollars, etc.,
met; and I would defer then to the Marco City Council to help
them or make some overture on how they could help them with
land acquisition. I think that might be something that needs to
be explored. If -- if the council felt that that might be an
appropriate way, I'm just putting it on the table for consideration.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: That -- I think that's not bad, Dr.
Carter. That's -- I think that would work pretty good for me. I
think it sounds quite fair, quite reasonable.
MR. VACCARO: I'd like to ask Sondra, what's a $250,000
grant from us gonna -- how is that gonna hamper your progress
and your deadlines and your time lines and the flushing out of
Naples Botanical Gardens?
MS. QUINN: If we got two fifty?
MR. VACCARO: Yes.
MS. QUINN: I'd need more than five minutes to figure that
out. Obviously, I wouldn't be able to do what I said we were
going to do. We'd have to go back and take a look at what that
meant.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: But the caveat would be that --
MS. QUINN: I don't think we'd be able to do the gardens.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- would have to look at what Mr.
Mihalic brings to us. And if the Board of County Commissioners
wants to meet the objectives they have stated out of the TDC
workshop, then that'll be decision-making time for four other
commissioners and myself, of which I will commit tonight I don't
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have a problem with. It would take, what, Greg, two other votes?
MR. MIHALIC: Three other votes. We need four votes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Four votes. Okay. Four votes. So it
will take three other commissioners to say, "Yeah, that sounds
like we can meet the needs of what we've been trying to do and
not get into the general fund.".
MR. DINUNZIO: Greg, could you clear up that million two
that would result by the reapportionment of the split of the 70/30
to 50/50? Would that be a million two total -- MR. MIHALIC: Yes, it would.
MR. DINUNZIO: -- that would be available for these kind of
projects, whether it be this or whether it becomes part of
advertising and promotion?
MR. MIHALIC: That's true.
MR. DINUNZIO: So if the million two were spent here, it's
spent here.
MR. MIHALIC: If we -- if we went to 50/50. Obviously, you go
to another proportion, 40/60 or something like that, that could
make it a larger amount that might give advertising and
promotion some more money as well as the museums more
money. Also -- to what Commissioner Carter said, there also
would be an additional $350,000 available for whatever,
advertising and promotion also.
MS. BUYSSE: I think it's a very -- very good.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Thirion.
MR. THIRION: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I -- while I -- I
applaud and I'm in favor of your concept, I do not -- I'm not in
favor of the amounts that you suggested to be assigned, only for
fear that it may not make it. And I think that we have to
recognize that here's an organization that has met every criteria
that we look for, primarily the matching funds. I think throughout
my tenure on this council that has always been the number one
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item, that if we can see that if there's an effort to match funds,
that our hat's off.
And also, I'd also like to say that perhaps if we were to
change the ratios, to use that terminology, it may be more of an
incentive for the county commission to vote it in, the use of the
other additional one hundred -- one million two.
MS. SAUNDERS: I concur with you. And my support would
go to giving the botanical gardens at this point -- we have -- now,
we've not heard from the Marco Island Museum, so I can't --
would be giving the botanical gardens their full 750,000; giving
the Collier County Museums approximately 400,000, which is
what they need minus the administrative costs that we got taken
out two years ago; and if there's money left, seeing if we feel
that the Marco Island project is appropriate or whether that
should go under the Collier County Museums as well.
But I think if we don't put full, strong support behind this
and, in effect, say that we think priority-wise this comes first -- or
the other one I'd put strongly there is Roberts' Ranch in front of
any -- almost any of the other museums if we have something
above and beyond that. I just think we've got an opportunity
here that fits every single criteria that we've developed. People
have done a fabulous job of presenting it, and I don't see -- you
know, I'd like to see us support it wholeheartedly and
enthusiastically.
MR. THIRION: Is that a motion?
MR. VACCARO: And my response to that would be -- I
wouldn't be -- I concur with that, but -- and I don't know how else
to say it, but not at the expense of the county museum. MS. SAUNDERS: Well--
MR. VACCARO: I don't know if that -- I don't even know if
you can say that, but I said it, so that's -- that's my position. If
somebody's telling me that the museum can be funded, then I
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would vote tonight for the $750,000 to the botanical gardens.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: But we have not heard from -- I just
said some thoughts, but then we said we wanted to hear all
three, and we have not heard --
MR. VACCARO: I don't think that's going to affect my vote.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: We need to get them up here, and then
Mr. Mihalic says we've got public speakers. So we've got a
couple of interesting -- don't lose your thoughts here on where
you were with your numbers -- hopefully somebody's got those --
so that we know how to work this through when we're all done.
MS. SAUNDERS.' Jim, I can summarize my thoughts briefly.
If -- if we're saying we have 1.2 million roughly right now and
we're going to get perhaps another 1.2 million, I'm going to say
we split it 50/50, so that would mean the museums would then
have another 600,000, ultimate, if the county commission passes
everything. That would give us 1.8 million. Okay. This is seven
fifty. That would still give the Collier County Museum System
enough to do what they need to do. So if the commission goes
that way, then the figures will --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You're making the assumption we've
got the other million two. So what you're really saying --
MS. SAUNDERS: Without the million two --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- 2,400,000 --
MS. SAUNDERS-' That's right.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- total.
MS. SAUNDERS: Well, two million four, but then you've got
money in there for -- hopefully some of it will go for advertising
and market -- for --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Understandable. But--okay.
MS. SAUNDERS: So I was taking half of that.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So you were taking half the million
two?
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April 9, 2001
MS. SAUNDERS: Half of the million two for the museums,
just arbitrarily.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. So-.
MS. BUYSSE: What would happen if we don't finance the
museum in their -- in even less than 850,000? How can they
function?
MS. SAUNDERS: The county commission will overvote us.
But you're right. You know, up until two years ago, they
functioned on an appropriation from our group of 371,000.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Then they've grown, and they took in
Roberts' Ranch --
MS. SAUNDERS: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: -- which seems to be the big number
here.
MS. SAUNDERS: That's true.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So if you take the one million two --
keep my numbers straight.
MS. BUYSSE: We need to hear from the --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yeah. We need to hear from Marco
Island. We're hearing from Marco Island. I'll listen and write.
MR. MIHALIC: Mr. Tyson.
MR. TYSON: I thought you were going to have some
speakers regarding the botanical garden, otherwise I'd have been
right here. For the record, my name is Bill Tyson. I'm the
president of the Marco Island Historical Society. And I had to
bring my treasurer with me because our budget is so large that
he would have to explain it in detail. And I also brought my vice
president, and she's going to give you a -- a kindergarten-level
brief history because in talking to different people we found out
that so many people in the -- in the county did not recognize the
uniqueness of the history of Marco Island. So I'd like to have
Eleanor Burnham do her thing for you.
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MS. BURNHAM: Good evening. I know it's late. I'm very
anxious to approach our project from a diff.erent point of view. I
would like to pull off a really neat trick of g,ving you a history of
Marco Island in five minutes. Okay?
Marco Island is very unique in its history.
We have a site of a shell mound that dates back to 800 and 900
A.D. I'm going to tell you about an exposition -- expedition,
excuse me, in 1895 under the leadership of Frank Hamilton
Cushing, who discovered on Key Marco one of the richest
archaeological sites in North America. Buried at this site were
artifacts of the Caloosa Indians, who were prehistoric
inhabitants of Southwest Florida.
This first slide is simply a slide of Florida and rather
difficult for you to see the markings of all the places where there
were mounds and digging .- digs that were visited by Frank
Hamilton Cushing.
The next picture is of Frank Hamilton Cushing, who worked
for the Smithsonian Institute. He was an archeologist and an
anthropologist. He was never very well. His health was weak.
And one time when he was visiting his doctor, who was Dr.
Pepper, the head of the anthropological department at the
University of Pennsylvania, he saw some artifacts from Marco
Island. An Englishman by the name of Colonel Charles Durnford
brought these items to show Dr. Pepper.
Captain Bill Collier, who lived on the island, had discovered
Indian artifacts while digging muck for his garden. And he had
allowed Colonel Durnford to dig on his property. Cushing
immediately recognized the importance of the artifacts that
came from this dig, and he was very anxious to come to Marco
Island and explore the site before anyone else did it. He did that
in 1895. Wells Moses Sawyer came with him. He was an artist
and a photographer and left wonderful records of this dig, both in
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paintings and in photographs.
The next slide is of The Silver Spray, which is a boat where
they did all their work except when they were in the ground
digging.
The next slide is the -- the site of the dig on Marco Island.
Pretty miserable digging.
The next one is a deer head in situ. If you look carefully, you
can see that -- the head of the carved deer sunk into the muck.
The next one is an alligator. This one has jaws that open
and close.
Next a turtle; then some carved wooden masks. There were
quite a few of those of different types; some shell tools -- another
mask. Thank you. Shell tools were used to cook with, to hammer
and -- and even saw with and as weapons. The next is a wolf figurehead.
I'm sorry I don't have a very -- a slide of the Key Marco Cat.
You're all pretty familiar with that anyway, but I do have a
picture. I'm also wearing it in gold if you want to see if that way.
It's the most familiar of the artifacts to all of us. It was on loan
in 1995 in Naples and in the year 2000 on Marco Island. The
Smithsonian has only loaned it twice in its hundred-year history,
and both times it was because of the interest of the Marco Island
Historical Society. We hope one day that we will have a museum
where we can bring these artifacts back to Marco Island where
they belong. Thank you.
By the way, there are two books written by Marion
Gallerland (phonetic), who -- this one was her thesis for her
master's, and this was written later. And all this material I have
told you came from these sources.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Captain Collier, no relation to
Barron Collier.
MS. BURNHAM: No. No relation at all. Two different
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families.
MR. TYSON: Okay. At this time I'd like our treasurer, Kris
Helland (phonetic) to present you materials.
MR. HELLAND: For the record, I'm Kris Helland, treasurer of
the Marco Island Historical Society. This is -- this picture's in
your packet, and it's the -- of the east wall of the Key Marco
Museum in the Board of Realtors Building on Marco Island. We've
got about 400 square feet, about half of the lobby of the Realtors
building. They have offices around there, and the lobby is -- is
large, and they've given us the space for half -- half of that lobby
where we have exhibits such as can be seen here, one of which
being the -- a replica of the Marco Cat, and the other pictures of
the other artifacts facts that were -- that were represented in
Gilden's (phonetic) book.
The -- the second museum at the Old Marco Inn is in
progress. Let me enlarge this again. The -- there's another 400 --
428 square feet that has been leased to us by the Old Marco Inn
for the purpose of showing more of the artifacts. Many artifacts
were dug on the property of the Old Marco Inn, and after they've
been categorized and cataloged, they will be returned and can be
exhibited in this museum. We also have many other artifacts and
-- and records from the development of Marco Island that have
been donated to us that are in storage at the present time
looking -- waiting for the time when we have a museum to display
them. When we get this museum up and operating, we'll be able
to display some of these items.
Let me go on to the budget. I had -- had some questions as
to our budget. And we've been such a small organization that we
didn't have much need of a budget and -- but we've put one
together to begin with. And you'll see that membership dues is
$2500. Donations from -- including the museum -- when people go
into our museum, there's a donation box there. And between the
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other donations and the museum, about $3,000. Profit from sale
of merchandise, we sell T-shirts and books and that sort of thing.
And interest from checking account and CDs is $1750.
Last -- last winter between November and March, we had the
Marc -- the real Marco Cat at some space that was given to us for
the -- from the Citizen Community Bank. During that 4 1/2-month
exhibit, we generated over five -- three thousand five hundred --
thirty-five thousand five hundred dollars in income from people
who came to see the real Marco Cat, the real Sawyer pictures,
and other artifacts from the dig.
To get those artifacts on permanent loan from the
Smithsonian and the other museums that now have them sitting
in drawers and in cabinets will take -- will require a museum that
they feel is adequate for the security and the environmental
protection of these items. And as such, the buildup of our other
museums is showing our other artifacts. And the eventual goal is
to have a real museum, and that's why we're asking for the land,
at least, to begin the program year after year of building up to the
point where we can actually have a museum, get the real
materials back to -- to Marco Island where it belongs. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Questions by council at this point?
MS. BUYSSE: Well, I would like to know what these
personal services represent in your budget. You are requesting
$348,000 of which 50,000 are personal services and thirty-eight
operating expenses.
MR. TYSON: Okay. Under -- I'm sorry. I was getting it from
him. The operating expenses?
MS. BUYSSE: No. The personal services, 50,000.
MR. TYSON: Oh, personal services. What we'd like to do is
open both our museums seven days a week. Okay. And in order
to do that, we figured we would hire three docents at $16,000 a
year.
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April 9, 2001
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
BUYSSE: So that is personnel?
TYSON: Yes, ma'am.
BUYSSE: That would be $50,000 for personnel?
TYSON: Right.
BUYSSE: Okay. I didn't understand.
MR. TYSON: And we found when we had the cat for 15
weeks, one of the requirements from the Smithsonian was that
we have two docents on duty at all times. And we canvassed all
the service clubs on the island to help us out. And for fifteen
weeks, five days a week, five hours a day, and three hours on
Saturday morning when the bank was open, it required -- it was
very labor-intensive to try and get enough volunteers to cover
that. So we figured three docents, one for each museum and
then one to augment, you know, on the weekends and days off.
And the operating expenses of 38,000 would include the
insurance, utilities, promotional materials, postage, different
displays, signage, and janitorial work. And the capital outlay of
$10,000 is for archival cases and different storage boxes that we
would need.
MR. VACCARO: Mr. Tyson, another question, please, if I
could. It's our job to fund projects that bring tourists to Collier
County in the off-season. Do you have projections on what we
could expect the Marco Island Historical Society and these
museums to bring to Collier County in the way of tourism,
projected heads and beds because of your efforts, in the next
year or so?
MR. TYSON: Well, to give you an example to get started, the
reason that the new owners of the Marco Inn were interested in
getting us to have a minimuseum there is because, as the owner
told me, "Bill, we're not on the water. We're not on the golf
course. We're going to push the historical aspect of the inn and
this section of Old Marco to our -- our guests that come." So
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that's why he gave us a very -- a very nice lease on the small unit
that -- that we have there. I don't know what his personal
predictions are as -- his estimates as far as the number of guests,
because I don't know if you've been down there at all, but he's
put up two huge buildings there.
MR. VACCARO: Maybe -- maybe, then, let me ask it a
different way. When you had the cat on loan from the
Smithsonian, did you do any surveys of those that were in
attendance and find out what percentage of those visitors over
that -- what was it, five months?
MR. TYSON: Fifteen weeks.
MR. VACCARO: -- fifteen weeks, what percentage of those
were out-of-county visitors that may have stayed overnight?
MR. TYSON: We have those actual figures, which I don't
have with me, unfortunately. But I can safely say that more than
70 percent of them were out of -- outside of Collier County.
MR. VACCARO: And of that 70 percent, how long -- how
many of them do you think specifically came to see the Marco
Cat, or that was an incidental visit while they were here?
MR. TYSON: Well, we had very good advertisement on that.
We put out 55,000 brochures that were sent out to the different
chambers of commerce and so on throughout the state. And I
would say a higher percentage -- of that 70 percent, I'd say
probably 90 percent came specifically to see the cat because it's
a one-of-a-kind artifact, and they knew what it -- you know, we
told them that when it leaves here, it goes back in a drawer in --
in Maryland. It's not even on display in the Smithsonian.
So something to keep in mind, Marco Island is a
destination resort city, and we get people who come there
whether they're there -- and we have six different time-share
resorts on the island. And whether they come for a week or a
month or the season, they might venture up to -- to Naples
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perhaps to see the botanical garden or, if they get tired of the
restaurants on Marco, come up here to eat. But most of them
stay there. And we have the potential to definitely outdraw
Everglades City and Roberts' Ranch as far as visitors. I can tell
you that for sure.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Mr. Thirion.
MR. THIRION: You know, the shame of it is, though, these
six time-share units and the eight or nine hotels that are there
don't see any value to donate any money to you. That's what I
don't understand.
MR. TYSON: Well, we've gotten -- we've gotten some
support, some, I guess you would call it, gifts in kind.
MR. THIRION: Yeah. That doesn't count. I'm talking about
hard dollars that you can go out and buy land with. Where --
MR. TYSON: Right.
MR. THIRION: Where is their thanks for all your efforts?
MR. TYSON: That's a tough nut -- tough nut to crack. You
know, in Naples there's people who are willing to donate a
million dollars here and a million dollars there, and the greatest
donation we've gotten to date, cash value, is $5,000. So that's
why we don't have any matching funds to show you. That's why
we're -- we're asking for the $250,000 for -- for land, because
when you go to somebody and "How about supporting us in
getting a museum?" they say, "Well, where are you going to put
this museum?" You know, they want to see something before
they give us any money.
MS. SAUNDERS: Have you had any discussions at all with
the Collier County Museum System?
MR. TYSON: Yes, ma'am, we have.
MS. SAUNDERS: And how -- what's the status of that?
MR. TYSON: Well, since it seems to be a foregone
conclusion from the discussion here this evening that we're --
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we're no way going to get $250,000 for land, I've talked
personally with Ron Jamro. I've known Ron for several years.
Some of our members volunteer at the county museum. And we
would be most amenable to come under the -- the umbrella of the
Collier County Museum System. We don't care who runs the
museum, who owns the museum. Our interest is to preserve the
history and heritage of Marco Island.
And so I can even suggest to you that where the -- the
library is on Marco Island, directly across the street is county-
owned property already. There would be no money involved in
purchasing that property. It would be an excellent job -- an
excellent job site to put a bona fide museum.
Any further questions that I could answer?
You can't ask me a question I can't answer but ...
MR. VACCARO: If -- with full funding -- I mean, I don't want
to be crass about this, but it seems as though the key to tourism
-- and, again, I'm trying to put this back in our perspective as a
TDC funding mechanism. Without the Marco Cat, where are you
in the way of attracting visitors to Collier County?
MR. TYSON: Well, there's -- there's more to -- as was
mentioned in the beginning, there's more to the uniqueness of
our history than the Marco Cat. We -- whether you realize it or
not, at the turn of the century, last century and into the '40s,
Marco Island was the commercial center of Collier County. We
had pineapple plantations. We had planting factories, two big-
time Doxy and Barnham plant factories there. We had all kinds of
fishing. And so then when Deltona came in, we have a whole
section of our museum to the development of modern-day Marco
Island where we're also -- when we get our second museum up
and running, we have so many prominent sports figures who live
on Marco Island -- Eric Parsegian (phonetic), for instance, Ken
Venturi (phonetic), and so on -- that we're going to have a sports
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center for memorabilia and artifacts whether it's from Sammy --
MR. VACCARO: I think you're -- I don't doubt that there is a
history there. What -- what I'm questioning is your ability to draw
tourists. I haven't seen that demonstrated, and that's what our
job is, to fund those projects that do. But possibly under the
umbrella of Collier County Museums, using their resources and
their -- their network of marketing tools that they have and their
funding umbrella, that they could come over -- and their referrals
from visitors to their museum that they could send to the
museum on Marco Island would make a -- a whole lot more sense
than you trying to reinvent the wheel.
MR. TYSON: Right. Whatever way you folks think we can
go, that's fine with us. Like I say, we're not trying to start our
own little kingdom there. We just want a museum on the island.
And we don't care who owns it, whether it's the city, whether it's
the county, whoever.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: I think we all greatly appreciate
the hard work that you've done to preserve the rich history of
Marco Island, and I just don't want you to leave feeling that -- you
know, that you haven't been appreciated, because you have. And
there is great history there. But, you know, the cookie jar
doesn't get that much bigger. There's more and more hands
reaching for the cookie jar, and the cookie jar just doesn't --
doesn't grow in proportion. That's the problem.
MR. TYSON: Right. I notice the cookie jar is needing
another $750,000.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Yep.
MR. TYSON: Thank you.
MS. SAUNDERS: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. I got a lot of numbers on the
table, ladies and gentlemen. I think what I would like to do is
entertain a motion to -- oh, public speakers, excuse me. I
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apologize. Let's go to them.
MR. MIHALIC: Mr. Abbott. And on -- in waiting, Mr. Boyce.
MR. ABBOTT: My name is Charlie Abbott. I'm vice president
of the Friends of the Collier County Museum. Our budget of 1.2
million is to satisfy what the county commission has given us to
tend to with the funding of Roberts' Ranch and its visitor center,
etc. If I understand you-all properly, your main purpose is to
summon visitors here during the off-season. And all we can say
as the Collier County Museum is we're here 12 months out of the
year, season or not. The nature of our business is to conduct
issues on having events that try to -- try to function out of season
so that we spread it out. There's plenty to do here during
season.
All I can say on our budget is we have a full plate. We've
been through it every year, and we need our 1.2 million. It's the
county commission's will, in creating the TDC, they still fund the
museum from the TDC-type of money. I don't see how we can
really do it any other way.
I applaud Mr. Mihalic's issue of the 50/50.
I think that would satisfy the botanical gardens. We have no
gripe against the botanical garden, except we think we're wholly
owned by Collier County, and we come first. So that has to be
our position, and it's unvarnished in that issue, but I wish the
botanical garden and the Marco Island Historical Society the
best of luck in it. Thank you.
MR. MIHALIC: Mr. Boyce.
MR. BOYCE: Heyward Boyce from Marco Island.
MR. MIHALIC: Miss Olesky.
MR. BOYCE: There are some -- there are some things that
Marco Island does well and some things we don't do very well. In
anticipating a question that might --just possibly might come up,
Marco Island doesn't think it wants to compete with the Collier
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County Museum System. I'm speaking for myself, not city
council. But I think it'll be a cold day someplace before the City
of Marco Island gets into the museum business. It really doesn't
want to be in it. It doesn't have the budget for it, and I don't think
it has the charter for it.
I commend Mr. Tyson and his group and those that have
supported him. They've done a tremendous job. I would speak
wholly in support of having their efforts somehow be
incorporated into the work that Ron Jamro does and does so well
for Collier County. Thank you.
MR. MIHALIC: Ms. Olesky.
MS. OLESKY: For the record, Ann Olesky. I'm representing
myself and also a good friend, Pam Brown. As you-all know,
Roberts' Ranch is near and dear to my heart because I am from
Immokalee. Tourism, tourism is a three-legged stool. You've got
the sun, the fun, and the beaches on top. That's what's going to
bring them here, and they're going to stay in the Naples/Marco
area.
Your county museums are solely Collier County's funding.
Granted we try to get outside funds, but this is our baby. And it's
an important baby. We've given Ron Jamro another baby, the new
Roberts' Ranch. It looks like the devil right now, and there's a lot
of repairs to be done on it. And it needs to be done, and that's
our responsibility. For tourists to come in, it's a three-legged
stool, as I started to tell you. You've got tourism, you've got the
eco-tourism. You've got heritage tourism and, believe it or not, a
little bit of ag tourism. We have a better educated people that
come to Florida now for the sun and the fun and for education.
A little while ago the Marco Film Festival said on the
national level the third-rated thing that people like to do when
they go somewhere is historical and museums. That's a national.
Maybe right now we don't attract them, but we can if we get the
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funding to get these done. And then the botanical gardens made
the statement that 20 percent of the people that come on
vacation visit gardens. Well, you're going to have a rose garden
in Roberts' Ranch in Everglades City and, of course, our own
local museum. Taking and adding Marco Island to this pot, you
better give Ron a lot more than a hundred and two (sic), because
I think eventually Marco Island should fall under it.
We've got it all right here in Collier County, and they're not
lazy. I love you to death, but they're not lazy. They have worked
their hearts out. They're working on limited budget. For
employees, I don't think they have that many. I urge you to
remember that tourism has come a long way, and there's an
awful lot that we have to offer. We have a long way to go.
Please reconsider and see that these people get this worthy
money that they need. Collier County Museums are our
responsibility.
And by the way, Lake Trafford will be restored. I have to tell
you that. I thank you-all again for that. We've raised the 18
million. The project is due to start in October, and you'll be able
to add that as one of the top tourist attractions. And, of course, I
expect them to stay in Marco and Naples. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. I apologize again. Did I
miss anybody?
MR. MIHALIC: No. We're all -- we've heard all the public
speakers.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you. Well, we've had a lot of fun
here, ladies and gentlemen. We have a couple proposals on the
table. If we took the last one and if it was incorporated into the
county museum system and if we use the land that belonged to
the library, which I'm sure Mr. Jones would really love -- I don't
know how we would do all that, but it -- it -- you know, you're still
talking about a hundred thousand dollars that that operation
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would need down there, even if it was incorporated into the
library or into the county museum system. Maybe there could be
some savings. I don't know that as we talk tonight. So if that
happened, then your museums would come and want a million
three instead of a million two. So there are some interesting
numbers.
Now, the proposals that I saw and heard -- heard were if I
took Ms. Saunders' approach, I'd have a million two. I'd give
$750,000 to botanical gardens. That would be a matching-dollar
basis. And from that we would leave 450,000 for museums, and
the Marco Island Museum would have to wait to see what the
county did on the possibility of another million two. That would
take care of one need, and that would leave the other two
coming back to the county commission and saying, "This is what
we need," and I believe that total is about $750,000 out of that
million two. And there you are. That's only looking -- there's a
hundred thousand dollars for Marco Island. That's a possibility.
I had tried to work a different number to take the higher
number to the museums and their initial request of eight hundred
and fifty. Looking at two hundred and fifty -- well, let's say three
hundred for the botanicals, maybe fifty thousand dollars for the
Marco Island Museum, and then the rest would have to come
from the million two that the county would have to get four out of
five votes on the commission to deal with that -- that subject.
Would there be motivation there? I would think so, there
would be motivation. One puts the real hammer on the
museums. The other gives it a give and take. I think it's really
the pleasure of this council where you want to go tonight
because I'm sure that the -- that the Board of County
Commissioners will work this over pretty well.
MS. BUYSSE: I feel that the county museum is now financed
by the Tourist Development Council. I don't see that we can
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withdraw funds until maybe the commission decide that they
want to find funds from some other -- through the general fund. I
feel that a botanical garden is definitely an incredible project for
our county. However, we have bought the Roberts' Ranch. We
have given it to the museum. I don't think that at this moment
we can say, "You cannot go on with what we already have
decided to do.".
It looks to me that we should finance the museum and tell
the county commissioners that the botanical garden will be an
incredible improvement to our county and that for that reason
they should approve the 50/50. And in that case it would --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think I got three proposals now. You
want to take them all for the museums? MS. BUYSSE: Right.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And we tell everybody else to work off
the other million two. And the county museums will be -- will get
what they asked for. So now I got three proposals.
MR. DURKIN: Four.
MR. THIRION: Four.
CHAIRMAN CARTER:
MR. THIRION: Well, I
Four?
-- I concur with --with Ms. Saunders'
proposal, and I'm going to vote that way if it becomes a motion. I
just would have a comment, that why -- if we -- if we're having
trouble funding these museums, why do we keep acquiring them?
I just read in the newsletter here that's in the Marco segment,
and it's, like, "Good news. We're soon going to have two
museums." And there's no funding thought of. I mean, this is
like somebody that doesn't have a job and go out and get
pregnant all the time. You just don't do this. So I would just --
it's one thing -- and I don't think we have to keep funding it just
because we approved it. So maybe it has to sit on the shelf for a
couple -- year until there is funding.
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April 9, 2001
MS. BUYSSE:
MR. THIRION:
MS. BUYSSE:
MR. THIRION:
But you want to buy another one.
I don't want to.
I mean, you want to finance another project.
No. All I'm saying is I don't think just
because we bought Roberts' Ranch that today we have to go
forward with continued funding.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, I think we got some bonding
issues there, and we have debt service there.
I don't remember the details. But, Mr. Mihalic, can you -- MR. MIHALIC: Some long-term capitalization on the loan for
Roberts' Ranch acquisition.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: You can't just shelve it. It'll have to be
funded in some manner.
MR. VACCARO: I would just -- my comments -- again, I think
our ]ob is to fund those activities that draw tourists to Collier
County. Of all the proposals I've heard, nothing would compare
with the ability to attract tourist as strongly as the botanical
gardens, and I would -- I would vote for a $750,000 funding of that
and let the county deal with funding the museum.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. And you would take the
remainder, four fifty, to the museums; is that what I'm hearing?
MR. VACCARO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Do we have a motion on that?
MR. DINUNZIO: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Yes, sir.
MR. DINUNZIO: What's -- what are the dynamics of not
taking any action tonight? If the county commission's going to
be assessing the 50/50 split in the next 60 days and we don't
have another meeting for 90 days, the dynamics of that could be
that -- you know, it could be good for everyone.
MR. MIHALIC: I don't know why it would be good for
everyone. I think, if anything, it would put a lot of things up in
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the air for their budgets, not knowing where they stand. I think
you have two sources of funding: Existing and potential future. I
would suggest you allocate your existing in the best way you
want to and then with a recommendation --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I think you got to make a
recommendation. If you go to the commissioners without any
recommendation from the TDC, then I think that they're going to
look and say, "You know, you guys sat in the room for two hours
on a -- on a Monday night, and you couldn't come up with some
recommendation to us?" Well, on this subject itself, I mean, I
think we've been after this about two hours.
MS. SAUNDERS: I'll make a motion that we fund the Naples
Botanical Gardens to the amount of $750,000 as requested; that
we fund the Collier County Museum System for approximately
$450,000; and if there is additional funds that may be available
based on a different allocation of monies to TDC, that the first
600,000 of that go to the Collier County Museum System. MR. THIRION: Second.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: May I ask a question? Why not take
the 750,000 out of the other million two and take the museums
where they need to be? Because they need a million two.
MS. SAUNDERS: Yeah. Okay. I'll -- yes. That we fund the
museums as the budget -- as their budget requested, an
additional 750,000 if that additional funding is allocated from the
beaches to this. Does that work?
MR. THIRION: Yes. I'll second that.
MR. VACCARO: What is the motion again? Repeat the
motion, please.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: The motion, as I understand it--
correct me if I'm wrong -- $750,000 to botanical gardens,
$450,000 to the Collier County Museums, and out of the potential
million two that may be available, that the first $750,000 go to
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April 9, 2001
Collier County Museums to finish their funding at a million two.
Was that correct?
MS. SAUNDERS: That is correct. And that way we haven't
asked the --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: And I believe, Jerry, you seconded
that? I have a first and a second.
MS. SAUNDERS: -- we haven't asked the commission in that
case to put it back in general funding, which might be a little
touchy. We've just asked them to reallocate other funds.
MR. VACCARO: Chairman, Mr. Carter, I just have to ask you,
is it -- what are the odds? Are we going to get the museum
funded?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: It's going to depend on -- I think we'll
get it funded, yes. I think it will be looked at, that million two,
and I think we'll fund it out of that. That would be my -- that
would be my recommendation to the Board of County
Commissioners. I would do that.
MR. VACCARO: Well, I'm still where I was. I'd vote for the
seven fifty without sacrificing the museum, if there's a way to do
it. And I think I'm hearing you say that there probably is a way to
do it.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I would -- I never can promise
anything.
MR. VACCARO: I want you to promise. I want you to
absolutely promise.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I can promise you that I would support
the 750,000 out of the million two, and I would be an advocate of
that. I would address it from this -- this dais to the commission
and state how I felt. But I've got to get three other people to say,
"Yes, sir, Commissioner.".
MR. THIRION: We'll help you.
MS. SAUNDERS: Yes.
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April 9, 2001
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay. Mr. Abbott, I probably shouldn't
do this, but I will, you've been here so long. Five more minutes.
MR. ABBOTT: One comment. Last year when we were here
doing virtually the same thing and it was Wilkinson House --
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Please, please.
MR. ABBOTT: I know. Sorry, Mr. Tarrant. I should have
been kinder and gentler. I didn't mean to strike you a blow. One
of the issues that came up is it roughly cost the museum a
hundred thousand dollars in state matching grants because we
failed to fund the Roberts' Ranch the way we had submitted
towards grants, so there was a hundred thousand dollars just
absolutely thrown away on what I consider nothing better than a
whim.
So I urge -- one of the issues we have to do when we apply
for these state grants and matching funds and such for our
museum work around the county is a stable source of funding is
just super critical to us. So that's one of -- one of our things.
We'll go back to the commission. We'll do our lobbying and all
that kind of stuff, and we'll probably come out of it. But just like
tonight right here, we'll screw a bunch of our grants up with
Tallahassee, and they'll see it as somewhat faithlessness on the
part of Collier County.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Well, let me ask you this: If we get
that done in the next 30, 60 days, will we affect the grant
money?
MR. ABBOTT: That I don't know. But we go through all
these grants about a hundred thousand times and fool all around.
And last year the net result, I think, was a hundred and four
thousand. Is that a correct number, Ron?
CHAIRMAN CARTER: For the record, you've got to come to
the microphone.
MR. ABBOTT: But anyway, I mean, it is kind of serious
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business to us on how we apply and what we do on other things
tOO,
MS. RIDEWOOD: Thank you. For the record, my name is
Donna Ridewood. I manage the Museum of the Everglades, and
I'm the project manager for Roberts' Ranch. The grant cycle with
the state unfortunately doesn't match the way our -- our funding
cycle does here. The next grant that we're going to apply for for
Roberts' Ranch is due May 31 st. But because of the way the
county system is set up, I've got to have that done pretty soon so
that it can get through the legal office and be signed off on by
the county commissioners.
So that will be coming up rather quickly, and this is part of
our problem. I have to show a commitment on the part of county.
If I say the county is going to match $250,000, it's got to be in
the budget. And last year that was not in the budget, and so I
was knocked down to a hundred forty-two when I was going to
ask for about two hundred fifty. So that's the -- I'm sorry. That
severely slows down the pace at which we can accomplish these
tasks. So I just --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I will have to -- and I want to call the
question, Mr. Thirion, but I have to ask another question of Mr.
Mihalic. Could we meet this schedule with the Board of County
Commissioners based on what happened tonight?
MR. MIHALIC: Yes, I believe we can. But, again, I don't
know exactly what they're matching for, because obviously we're
allocating monies for the next fiscal year. We're not allocating
money for May or June or July. We're allocating for fiscal year
2002, so I'm just not sure I understand exactly what she has to
match.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Okay.
MR. MIHALIC: She's matching --
CHAIRMAN CARTER: So there's money for them to match
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now? Is that what I'm hearing? The money's already there for
them to match?
MR. MIHALIC: In my experience with grants, you match
right now whatever you're applying for. You're not promising a
match in the next fiscal year's budget. That's different than I --
so I can't speak to that, Commissioner. But, I mean, obviously
they have whatever's within their budget this fiscal year for
matching for this fiscal year.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Maybe it's a mechanism that I don't
know.
MR. MIHALIC: But I believe we can bring the ordinance
through by the end of May and get it approved, if that's the
criteria.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: I'll take one more comment. Then I've
got to call the question.
MR. TYSON: All I need is five seconds. Just keep in mind --
your minds are made up, but keep in mind that 30 percent of the
bed tax that you collect comes from Marco Island.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Thank you, sir. We have a second.
We've had a first. We've had discussion. Any other questions on
the part of the council?
Hearing none, I call the question. All in favor signify by
saying aye.
COUNCILMAN TARRANT: Aye.
MR. VACCARO: Aye.
MR. DINUNZIO: Aye.
MS. SAUNDERS: Aye.
MR. THIRION: Aye.
MR. DURKIN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Opposed by the same sign. Aye.
Motion carries --
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April 9, 2001
MS. BUYSSE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN CARTER: Motion carries 6-2.
Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our
business. Thank you for your patience, your time. And we'll see
you, I believe, at the first Monday -- the last Monday in June is
the new adjusted time, I believe. Thank you.
There being no further business for the good of the County,
the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 9:07 p.m.
TOURIST DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL
JAMES D. CARTER, Ph.D., CHAIRMAN
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT
REPORTING, INC., BY BARBARA DRESCHER, NOTARY PUBLIC
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