DSAC Minutes 04/04/2001 RApril 4, 2001
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Naples, Florida, April 4, 2001
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Development Services
Advisory Committee, in and for the County of Collier, having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 3:35 p.m. In
REGULAR SESSION in Conference Room E, Horseshoe Drive,
Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Thomas Masters, P.E.
Charles M. Abbott
R. Bruce Anderson, Esq.
David Correa
Dalas D. Disney, AIA
Robert L. Duane, AICP
Marco Espinar
Brian E. Jones
Dino J. Longo
Thomas R. Peek, P.E.
C. Perry Peeples, Esq.
Herbert R. Savage, AIA
Peter H. Van Arsdale
ABSENT:
Blair Foley, P.E.
Bryan Milk
ALSO PRESENT: Patrick White, Assistant County Attorney
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April 4, 2001
Ed Perico, Building Director
Susan Murray, Current Planning Manager
Bob Mulhere, Planning Services Director
John Dunnuck, Community Development Admin.
Michelle Arnold, Code Enforcement Director
Tom Kuck, Interim Planning Director
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DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADVISORY COMMITTEE
AGENDA
April 4, 2001
3:30 p.m.
I. Approval of Agenda
II. Approval of Minutes- March 7, 2001 Meeting
II1.
Staff Announcements A. Summary of Ordinance Amendments
B. Miscellaneous
IV. Old Business 1. Subcommittee Members
2. LDC Cycle
Subcommittee Reports A. Land Development Regulation (Bob Duane)
B. Construction Code (Dino Longo)
C. Utility Code (Tom Peek)
D. Ad Hoc Committee on Fees
VI. New Business
VII. Committee Member Comments
April 4, 2001
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Does anybody have any changes
they'd like to make to the agenda? John, do you have any
modifications? Okay.
MR. PEEK: I move -- I move the agenda be approved as
issued.
MR. SAVAGE: Second.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. All in favor aye.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Opposed? Motion carries.
Okay. Any comments on the minutes from last meeting?
Yes, Tom.
MR. PEEK: Mr. Chairman, I have a comment, not about those
minutes specifically, but about the minutes in general. Is there
any way that we can get these minutes printed, say, in 12-point
type nonbold Times New Roman type, something other than this
billboard that we get every month?
MR. DUNNUCK: Yes, we can. That's -- yeah. We can do
that.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS:
or im
Is that supplied by the court reporter
MR. DUNNUCK: Yes.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay.
(A discussion was held off the record.)
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Thank you. With -- with that
comment on the minutes, any further comments on anything in
there?
MR. PEEK: Mr. Chairman, I'd move that the minutes be
approved.
MR. ESPINAR: Second.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Second by Marco. Okay. All in
favor?
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April 4, 2001
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. And opposed? Okay. The
motion carries.
Okay. Staff announcements. We'll turn it over to John.
MR. DUNNUCK: All right. One of the clarifications I -- I did
want to make on this, and I -- before we -- we get into the full
agenda was, under old business we have listed the LDC cycle,
and one of the things I -- my intent on that was to ask you-all or
kind of give you a heads up that we may be requesting a special
meeting in May from the standpoint of the board has given us
some recent direction re -- through their workshop on some
things they'd like to see changed in the Land Development Code.
And we may be getting a little bit late in the cycle to -- to ask
them when we want to bring them before the DSAC. And -- and
that's why I had asked for that -- that actual particular item to be
on there, not necessarily to hear them all today. We wanted to
kind of hear them all at once in May. But I understand that, you
know, there's an expectation. We have a lot of people in the
room that anticipate that we're going to hear the Land
Development Code items that have gone through the
subcommittee already. And it's up to the -- you know, the DSAC
to determine if they want to hear those today or if they want to
table them to May.
MR. LONGO: John, we still have three ordinances sitting
on -- on the -- proposed ordinance and amendments; disaster
recovery, coastal setback, and plat amendments. Are they all
tied in with the FEMA stuff?
MR. DUNNUCK: Uh-huh.
MR. LONGO: Can we have an update on FEMA, what's going
on with all that?
MR. DUNNUCK: I don't know if -- Ed?
MR. PERICO: Ed Perico. We're waiting on the reports back
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April 4, 2001
from Tom LaSalle. We haven't heard anything more.
MR. LONGO: So it will remain the same?
MR. DUNNUCK: Exactly.
MR. SAVAGE: Mr. Chairman, Herb Savage.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Yes.
MR. SAVAGE: Are we talking about changing an item on the
agenda? Is that what we're talking about?
MR. DUNNUCK: Well, I think it's -- it's more clarifying an
item on the agenda as opposed to changing it. If you want to
hear the full subcommittee, you know, recommendations and --
and the report and take you through each land development
code, we can. But I think it would be better if we waited till May
when we have them all.
MR. MULHERE: There's -- there's -- I'm sorry. For the record,
Bob Mulhere. There's going to be -- I think what John indicated,
there's going to be a couple of potentially additional amendments
in the cycle. And also EAC this morning asked staff to make
some revisions to the sea turtle special event, hotels. Yeah,
thank you. And so there's going to be changes to that too. So
really the intent here would be not to necessarily make you hear
these things twice. And we'd rather spend the next month
continuing to work on some of these things and maybe bring it
back to the subcommittee one more time and then have you hear
it at the first May meeting.
MR. SAVAGE: Mr. Chairman, in other words, what -- they
want to go back to the agenda and delete this Item V-A?
MR. DUNNUCK: From the standpoint of actually making the
presentation, it's actually for -- I guess it would be Item IV-2
under old business, the LDC cycle.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: My only comment on that is I see
some members in the audience that may be here to speak toward
a couple of those issues. And I'm not so sure we wouldn't want
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April 4, 2001
to give them the opportunity maybe to make some comments.
Any feedback on that?
MR. SAVAGE: Well, let's ask identification if there is
somebody who wants to talk about that. If there isn't and you
don't mind coming back -- no? If you're not going to vote --
MR. HANCOCK: For the record, Tim Hancock. I've provided
the D -- DSAC members that have an e-mail address with the
points that I wish to discuss. All I'm concerned about is that we
have the opportunity to discuss them in this cycle since they're
related to amendments that have already been proposed. As
long as that's going to be provided, the timing is not that
important.
MR. LONGO: Is the -- is the county going to allow us to go
back to subcommittee?
MR. DUNNUCK: Yes.
MR. LONGO: Before the full committee?
MR. DUNNUCK: Absolutely.
MR. ANDERSON: What -- can you tell us the nature of what
these other amendments -- what they concern?
MR. DUNNUCK: Bob, do you want to update them?
MR. MULHERE: Yeah. One deals with excavations in the
estates and rural lands. And you recall -- recall the board gave
the staff direction to look at that matter and meet with the
community and the commercial excavators and try to develop
some standards for excavations in the estates. So that's one of
the primary ones that we're going to try to get that done so that
we can do that in a cycle.
And, of course, the other one is the sea -- sea turtle and
special-events, people-on-the-beach permit, one. And the third
is, perhaps, dealing with -- there -- there has been some
suggestion -- I understand Tuesday the board may raise the
issue, and the board is looking for us to bring back some
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April 4, 2001
discussion in the form of potential amendment on RT zoning and
hotels so...
MR. DUANE: Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Go ahead, Bob.
MR. DUANE: Bob, are one of the amendments going to be
the implementing mend -- amendment for Interchange No. 9?
Those were going to be coming forth in this cycle also. Is that
something that you're -- I think there were some commitments
made before the board when that master plan went before them
last month that they would be in this cycle. Is that something
you're going to be addressing also?
MR. MULHERE: I'll have to check on that. I -- I -- I haven't
seen those amendments. I don't really know where they really
are.
MR. DUANE: Well, our subcommittee has met twice, and we
were prepared to discuss these. I have no preference whether
we continue or not. If that's the pleasure of staff, then I would
suggest that, you know, we defer these until May unless there
are any objections from the other members of the committee.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Hearing no objection, let's go ahead
and table that till our next meeting, then, and we'll get another
chance to hear the new issues in subcommittee first so -- go
ahead, Bob.
MR. DUANE: I'm sorry I was late. I wanted to add several
new items under new business today. One was -- a vote of
confidence for Mr. Nino would be the first item. The second item
was an update on the status of the performance measures that
we were going to incorporate vis-a-vis some of the fee increases
that we imposed, I think, two, three, four months ago now. And
I'd also like a brief update on when we might get the new LDC
supplements. We're two supplements behind in our book. I -- I
keep hearing that they're coming, but I'd like to know what that
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April 4, 2001
date certain might be, if no one else has any objection to me
adding these three items to the agenda.
MR. MULHERE: I don't have an objection. I -- I'm sorry. Bob
Mulhere. I just wanted to add also that there's the possibility of
having the hearing examiner amendments in the cycle as well.
And then that's another thing that we hope to get in. That's kind
of important.
MR. DUANE: Yes--
MR. MULHERE: So I apologize.
MR. DUANE: -- Robert.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: We have a motion to add some -- drop
back and add some things to the agenda.
MR. SAVAGE: I second the motion.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Second. All in favor?
(Unanimous response.).
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Opposed? Hearing none, let's go
ahead and move forward to the subcommittee reports. Bob.
MR. DUANE: We have met twice --
MR. ANDERSON: I wanted to ask Mr. Dunnuck about
miscellaneous under staff announcements, if he might introduce
for everybody that's here the -- the new staff changes for
anybody that doesn't know who everybody is. It's always nice to
be able to associate a name with a face.
MR. DUNNUCK: Absolutely. Well, in here right now we have
Susan Murray, who I'd asked to be the current planning manager
to replace Mr. Nino. I got Tom Kuck who I've asked to be the
interim curr -- planning director until we fill Bob's position. And --
and, frankly, that's my number one priority for everybody in this
room; that's one of the things I'm working hard to do. And,
finally, even though he's not here, we have a new business
manager starting on Monday who is a CPA, MBA, was a CFO of a
couple of companies and had his own accounting firm. And I'm --
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April 4, 2001
I'm real excited that -- that he's going to be coming aboard.
And even while I -- while I've got your attention, too, give
you a quick update on the building construction next door. One
of the things we had talked about a couple months ago was the
fact that why are we building a 40,000-square-foot building, you
know, if we're -- if we're going to be leasing it out to other
departments. We made the decision that from our -- our needs
standpoint we only need 20,000 square feet, and so we're going
to save $2 million on the -- on the project by cutting out that
20,000 square feet and reducing the size of the parking garage.
MR. LONGO: Very good.
MR. DUNNUCK: With the ability to expand later if we ever
need it. And that's where we're at.
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Permit fee.
MR. DUNNUCK: What's that?
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Will there be a -- a production of permit
fees to go along with this downsizing in government?
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: There will be an increase, of course.
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Go ahead, Bob, with our
update on the LDC.
MR. DUANE: We met twice, covered the two dozen or so
amendments and reached consensus, I think, on all of them,
including the beach and turtle protection ordinance. I think we
had one objection from our committee to those amendments, but
we will carry forward in May.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Construction code
committee? Nino?
MR. LONGO: Well, until John made his comments, I had
nothing.
Just a quick reiteration. When we formed our ad hoc
committee to look into the costs and the reasons of building the
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April 4, 2001
new building and the parking garage, one of those reasons was
because we were asked for a permit fee increase to subsi -- for --
to make up the $2 million shortfall on the planning side. So my
question is -- it kind of relates back to Peter. We -- we increased
our permit fees partly because of that or most substantially
because of that. And I'd like to know what's going on with that,
that end of the issue.
MR. DUNNUCK: We'll take a look at that end of the issue.
Frankly, we just made that decision the other day to reduce it
down to 20,000 square feet. And certainly if that was the
expectation previously on the permit side of it, we will do that.
We'll take a look at it.
MR. LONGO: All right. And that -- and that led into ad hoc
discussions on -- on Bob's side of -- of this -- of development
services as to, you know, the efficiency, so forth, and so on. And
we've done a great job getting -- getting the Perconte (phonetic)
system on -- online and starting to look at the turnaround times
on the different applications for permit and his needs and
tracking his needs for staff and manpower and all that stuff. So
I'd like -- I'd like to really look hard at that. If that's -- if that's a
$2 million savings, that's exactly what we've increased our
permit fees for.
MR. DUNNUCK: I'll bring back a report for the next meeting.
MR. LONGO: Thank you. Other than that, Mr. Chairman, I
have no report.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Utility code.
MR. KUCK: Yes. The utility code cancels their meeting till --
for this past March, will be continued to the fourth Thursday of
this month at three o'clock in the afternoon.
MR. MULHERE: For -- for your record, that's spelled K-u-c-k.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Tom Peek just brought to my
attention that we skipped over, under old business,
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subcommittee members.
MR. DUNNUCK: I just wanted to hand out -- I think it's in
your package the -- the subcommittee members. You had asked
for it at the -- I think, the previous meeting that we provide you a
list of all the subcommittee members, and I think -- I think we
had gone ahead and maybe sent that -- sent that to you.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Yes. It's in there.
MR. DUNNUCK: So, you know, if you had any questions in
follow-up, I think there was some concern with the turnover
membership, who was actually on the subcommittee. So that's
the updated list of what we have in our record.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: So for you new members, feel free to
look into joining any of the subcommittees. Peter.
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Yeah. I see I'm on this one. That's
great.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay.
MR. PEEK: Yeah. Mr. Chairman, with regard to the utility
code subcommittee, that subcommittee needs more members. I
don't see Blair Foley with us today. I think Blair is on that
subcommittee.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: And I've been trying to attend as
well.
MR. PEEK: You've been on the subcommittee. Herb is. I'm
on it. Brian's on it. And we really need another member from
this committee on that subcommittee because, if you'll notice,
I'm on every subcommittee. And I need to get off of a
subcommittee because I can't make it to all of the meetings.
MR. SAVAGE: You had a lot of response, I noticed.
MR. PEEK: I see that again.
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Who's not here?
MR. PEEK: Blair is the only one that's been put down on
there so --
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April 4, 2001
MR. DISNEY: Brian gets on there every time.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Yeah. With -- with the addition of the
-- of Blair and myself on the utility code subcommittee, was --
was anybody else interested in joining a committee that's not
listed on a committee while we have you?
MR. LONGO: I'd like to make a comment.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Go ahead, Dino.
MR. LONGO: In -- in light of our recent opportunities to -- to
work on our North Naples sewage crisis, I put a bug in the ear to
a lot of people and a couple of county commissioners that
something that we discussed before this -- before this full
committee is having some sort of oversight committee to
oversee utilities similar to what we do here in Development
Services Advisory Committee and the same for transportation.
And I just would like input from this committee as to what their
thoughts are because I think the CBIA, myself personally, would
move toward -- and toward seeing that happening so that we
don't get into the same problems we had this past couple of
weeks with our transportation issues and our water and sewer
issues.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: That sounds like it could be a step in
the right direction. Anybody have any other additional
comments? Go ahead, Bob.
MR. MULHERE: I just have one comment. Everyone's feeling
free to make these comments, so I'll throw it out there. And --
you really, I think, would have two options. One would be to
have additional oversight committees or the second would be to
look at your enabling legislation that created you and expand
that to cover, perhaps, transportation and utilities and then, say,
be required to have the appropriate administrative
representation at these meetings.
MR. LONGO: And I thought we had discussed that at one
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time as to that came under our charge, but that really never
seems to happen with utilities. And, I mean, we meet on code
issues, but we don't meet on overall issues and the general day-
to-day business. I'm not trying to tell anybody how to do their job
but --
MR. MULHERE: Right.
MR. LONGO: -- this -- this committee is charged with
overseeing about everything that comes out of industry. But we
haven't done a good job, quite frankly, on utilities and
transportation. And maybe the squeaky wheel gets oiled in the
future, but that's going to be my suggestion. And if we can't
come out of here with some backup, I think that's weak on our
side.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Tom, do you have any comment on
that?
MR. KUCK: It's probably a good idea because of the lack of
communication, especially over the last few months or over the
last couple of years.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Can we broaden the scope of what
the utility code subcommittee does, do you think, and bring some
of that --
MR. KUCK: We've also got the issue of transportation. Of
course, both of those are actually part of public works. And the
only thing, I think if you draw them into this committee, whether
or not you're going to have adequate time when you only meet,
you know, once a month for basically two hours, you know,
that's -- and it may be something that should be workshopped
with the Board of County Commissioners to see what that
process would do.
MR. LONGO: And my intent behind it is to have a cross-
section of the community in those -- in those disciplines, not
necessarily from here, but in those disciplines that can meet on a
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monthly basis like we do here. I think it will alleviate some of
the burden on this committee and have reports from maybe those
other -- those other oversight committees or however you want to
call them that can come back to this committee, if -- if-- if
actually this charge is by ordinance that comes under us.
But I wouldn't be adverse to having that split off from here
and having engineers and people like that that are involved in
those disciplines to take a look at those things and have them
responsible for overseeing, simply because when -- when we had
this crisis and we all met and there was literally hundreds of
people involved, it shows you the amount of brainpower that's
out there and -- and disciplines and people that can get involved
and really, you know, help the community out. And it's not -- it's
not just to tell people how to do their job in county government,
but I think it would help tremendously.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Do you have another comment?
MR. MULHERE: No. No.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Is -- is that something that we can try
to recommend to the board or--
MR. DUNNUCK: Sure. Absolutely. I don't think that's a bad
idea at all. I think the way I would recommend approaching it is
maybe have us -- direct us to write an executive summary for
you-all to review maybe and bring it back to the next meeting.
And then, you know, if you like what we have, we'll give you a
menu of recommendations, and we can go from there.
MR. LONGO: Yeah. I certainly would like input from this
committee as to -- I mean, a lot of these people here have been
involved in the utilities, not transportation, but in utilities. Those
are the two hot -- hot issues we have in this community today, is
water/sewer and transportation. I think we need to take a look
at it.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. So you'll bring something back
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to the next meeting?
MR. DUNNUCK: Sure.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Very good.
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Just -- the only comment I may make is
-- is that, John, in your review to look and see if there's -- some --
there's a number of committees in the county. Maybe there's
already a bunch of them that have that responsibility and aren't
looking at it, and maybe it can be reassigned or dealt with in
some other fashion. I mean, another MPO has -- besides the
MPO's responsibilities, there's a number of committees there that
you think would -- and I know there's been discussions on
shortfalls in road capacity, but nothing really ever gets done. So
I don't know. They might just look and see what sort of -- what
they'll be able to give us.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: John will get back to us next
meeting with something then. MR. DUNNUCK: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: I think you covered ad hoc
committee on fees then previously. We'll move on to new
business and bring up Ron Nino.
MR. DUANE: Trying to decide where to begin. In spite of
yesterday's news article, I, for one, feel privileged for 12 years to
have had an association with Mr. Nino. Six of those years he's
staffed -- provided staff support to this committee, particularly
land-use subcommittee, and I think he's done a -- a commendable
job. I -- I think Ron, one of his stronger suits has been he's bent
over backwards to provide good customer service. And as a
representative of the development industry, I don't want my
comments to be taken as self-serving. But whether you're a
homeowner, in the real estate industry, a landscape architect,
this guy or man has fielded dozens of questions a day over a
period of years, and he helped make the clock work.
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I -- I just -- if his role is going to change -- and that's not my
job to tell you how to manage your people, but I -- I would hope
that we'll continue to use him as an asset. I know the article you
were quoted as saying yesterday that you're going to try to use
him to the greatest extent practical. But he's been so many
things to this department, a mentor to young planners. He's
provided a leadership role.
We've lost people that have good background in all of these
books (sic). But, frankly, he -- he knows as much or more than
many of the people that we have on our staff today. And I say
that in due deference to all our other staff matters. But I think
he's been outstanding. And I -- I think it would be a shame if he
were shoved in the corner somewhere and his expertise were not
fully utilized in all aspects of this department, whether or not
he's in decision-making capacity or not. And I don't make
speeches very often, but that's all I have to say.
MR. DUNNUCK: And just to address that, I absolutely agree.
You know, not an easy decision, you know, based upon, you
know, what came out of the -- the golf course impact-fee audit.
Personally, I think it was time to -- to make a few changes in the
planning department, regardless of that audit, too. I -- I look at
Ron as a very -- a huge asset to this -- to the department, to the
division as a whole. And my -- and my commitment to him is that
I plan on keeping him around, you know, until he wants to finish
out his career here and -- and use him, as I said, to the fullest
extent possible.
I mean, I think it goes without saying that we have enough
work to keep people busy around here, and we will keep -- we
will keep Ron busy, and we'll be using him to the fullest extent.
MR. SAVAGE: Mr. Chairman, Herb Savage. I'd like to
suggest that Robert Duane make this as a formal motion of
commendation for Ron Nino, and I'd like to second that motion if
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April 4, 2001
you would do that. I think it's imperative to let everybody know
who reads these minutes know what we think of Ron Nino, not
just his boss.
MR. DUANE: I'm close to making that motion, and I don't
know if anyone has any other -- wants to chime in or not.
Otherwise --
MR. SAVAGE: Opposed?
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Bruce Anderson has some
comments.
MR. ANDERSON: I have read the clerk's report, and I have
read Ron Nino's response to the allegations in there. And I don't
know -- the gentleman who prepared the report for the clerk's
office, so far as I know, does not have a law degree. I assume he
may have consulted with an attorney. I know Mr. Brock does
have a -- a law degree. But I want to comment that the
allegations or cases that they made about Mr. Nino supposedly
granting variances that should have properly gone to the Board
of County Commissioners is far but clear.
I -- I have looked at the code provisions cited by Mr. Nino,
and I think that he was within his lawful authority and discretion
in taking the actions that he's criticized for. That's just one
lawyer's opinion. But I sure don't think it was a clear case by
any stretch of the imagination.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Any other comments?
Go ahead. Peter.
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Yeah. I think the only -- the concern I
have is that we're -- I mean, John's already made his decision,
and I think that we'd be better served to sort of stand behind his
decision. And I like Ron, and I respect what he did, and I think
he got the short end of the stick, and I -- but that wasn't the
decision we made. And I'm -- I'm more inclined to support John's
decision than I am to -- because I think that -- that sort of action
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April 4, 2001
would undermine what he did.
MR. ANDERSON: Well, I hope we're not implying any
criticism of John's --
MR. SAVAGE: Not at all.
MR. ANDERSON: -- decision. That's not my intent at all.
MR. DUANE: Nor did it necessarily change his decision.
MR. ABBOTT: Aren't you strengthening John's decision?
MR. VAN ARSDALE: To keep him on?
MR. ABBOTT: I think it --
MR. VAN ARSDALE: No. I mean, it -- no. I think -- I think --
MR. ABBOTT: Really, I think that that would support it if you
did --
MR. VAN ARSDALE: No. I think that -- that John felt really
good about it. Just leave him as he is until, you know -- and fight
the fire with fire rather than -- but in that we -- you know, the
change has been made. He's been demoted. He certainly -- you
know, hasn't been good for him.
I just have a little concern as -- as just being on this advisory
committee, sort of taking a position that -- that really undermines
that decision that, you know, it's not just -- I just don't feel good
about it.
MR. DUANE: It's a vote of confidence, and it's nothing more
than that. And it's not meant to undermine your authority. I
understand the distinction between your management authority
and the commission of this board. But I think in recognition of 12
years of service that he's given to the community that I, for one,
and -- would like to give him a code -- a vote of confidence.
I'd actually like that to be drafted in the form of a letter,
perhaps, from our chairman to you with a copy to the manager's
office for what little or -- what little purpose that may serve. But
I may be the only one that feels that way on this board. And if
that being the case, then this discussion will not carry forward
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April 4, 2001
any further.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS:
motion --
MR. SAVAGE: Second it.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: We have a second.
discussion on the motion before us?
from
with
That -- that being in the form of a
Any further
MR. SAVAGE: I call the question, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: All in favor?
(Aye).
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: And opposed?
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Aye.
MR. PEEPLES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Two opposed, Perry and Peter.
Okay. What would -- do you feel that -- that a letter coming
the chairman to the board may be the best direction to go
the --
MR. DUNNUCK: That would be most appropriate.
MR. SAVAGE: Mr. Chairman, I have to leave in a few
minutes, and I'm interfering with the agenda. But I'd like to make
sure this board does a similar kind of a resolution to a man who
is leaving here very soon, and that's Bob Mulhere. I trust that
somebody will do that before the day is over. I have to leave in a
few minutes.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Go ahead, Bruce.
MR. ANDERSON: I'd like to make that motion that we extend
our thanks and best wishes to Bob Mulhere, our thanks for his 12
years of loyal service to the public, and wish him well in his new
endeavors.
MR. PEEK: I would second that.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Second from Tom Peek. All in favor?
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Hearing none, the motion passes
Page 19
April 4, 2001
again.
MR. MULHERE: Wow, thank you. No one opposed? Come
on, give me a break.
MR. SAVAGE: Well, I was going to speak up but --
MR. ABBOTT: We didn't bring our tomatoes.
MR. MULHERE: You'll have your chances.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Moving on, the performance
measures I think we've discussed. Do you have further
discussion?
MR. DUANE: Well, I just wanted to know if -- if, perhaps, for
our next meeting -- because I don't know that Mr. Dunnuck is
prepared to give us a report, but we put a four-month clock on
some performance measures. And I think that we dealt -- be well
served by those -- if we could have a report on that at our next
meeting, I'd appreciate it.
MR. DUNNUCK: Sure. From what I understand, things are
going pretty well in the subcommittees and that they're getting
to the bottom of a couple of issues. And there's a few
recommendations, I think, coming before us, especially in Ed's
shop, from what I hear, that -- that I'll be happy to bring a report
to,
MR. DUANE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay.
MR. DUANE: And the final item is -- if you could bring a
report on when we might expect from Municipal Code
Corporation the two last supplements.
MR. DUNNUCK: Yup. Patrick?
MR. WHITE: Yes.
MR. DUNNUCK: Why don't you update them on the municipal
code.
MR. WHITE: Thank you. Patrick White, assistant county
attorney.
Page 20
April 4, 2001
My most recent communication with Municipal Code has
assured me that sometime this week we should be receiving
proofs for the two supplements to get us up to current with the
most recent legislative changes to the LDC. I've been dogging
them regularly to insure that we get service.
We're also looking at revising our contract with them and
other options with regards to CDs and other kinds of
technologies so that we can get you the codes in forms other
than just the printed code. So hold tight. We're -- we're hoping
within the month to have them out, published, and done, and it
will be up to date, other than the ones we're going to be doing in
this round effective June.
Is there any questions? Bob?
MR. DUANE: No. Thank you, Patrick.
MR. MULHERE: No. I was going to ask you a question. Did
you just -- did they indicate that if we provided them with the
approved amendments in some sort of an electronic form, they
could expedite?
MR. WHITE: We're -- we're looking at trying to get them to
commit to a time frame that we think's very reasonable. They've
agreed to do so. We just have to agree on what that number is. I
would think somewhere between 90 to 120 days is probably
reasonable.
And, yes, we have -- they allow you to send it to them
digitally, and that's what we intend to do the next round of
amendments. That's why having them in a particular format and
making sure all of the, you know, I's and T's are dotted properly
and crossed is important. So that's what we're going to do.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Right -- right now -- right now when
you get a new LDC book, does that have all the current
amendments in it when we or -- when someone orders a book
from those guys or not yet?
Page 21
April 4, 2001
MR. WHITE: Not yet. It doesn't have the last --
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Two cycles.
MR. WHITE: There's two cycles, plus there's -- another
ordinance, I believe, that's in there as well so... CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Thanks.
MR. WHITE: It's about a year behind, actually.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Uh-huh. All right. Finishing that up,
we can move on to any additional committee member comments.
We'll start with Bob Duane.
MR. DUANE: Well, I've talked enough for one day.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Herb always has something to say.
He stayed just for that; right?
MR. SAVAGE: Well, I didn't think I was going to be here this
long, but I've already said my piece. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Thank you. Marco?
MR. ESPINAR: No comment.
MR. ANDERSON: No.
MR. LONGO: Two things: I think John's doing a great job at
what he's doing, John Dunnuck. MR. SAVAGE: Absolutely.
MR. LONGO: I would caution us to make sure that we're not
losing these 12-year guys on a daily basis. I hate to have to
break new guys in every day. And that's a concern always with
the experience and the knowledge of what they -- they've been
doing here day in and day out.
The second is, we do have a subcommittee meeting with the
construction code next Wednesday at three o'clock. Go ahead
and schedule that now.
MR. DISNEY: Nothing. Thank you.
MR. PEEK: Yes. I have a que -- question -- two questions.
One is of Dino. The meeting next week of the construction code
subcommittee, is it for construction code items, or is it for the ad
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April 4, 2001
hoc --
MR. LONGO: -- slash, ad hoc, mostly probably ad hoc items
next week. We'll be discussing with Ed's department, you know,
some of the things we discussed a couple weeks ago on the
permitting and the applications and stuff like that.
MR. PEEPLES: And timing issues.
MR. LONGO: And timing issues.
MR. PEEK: The second item I wanted to comment on is the
fence-permit processing. And my comments are generated by
personal experience. I engaged a fence contractor to build a
fence for me. And he came and applied for a permit, and he tells
me that what used to be a walk-through for a fence permit is now
a two- to three-week process because it has to go to fire review,
and they don't process it in two to three weeks. So I have a
question: Is that, in fact, true that they now have to run fence
permits through the fire department?
MR. LONGO: We'll run that by subcommittee next
Wednesday.
MR. ABBOTT: But in the meantime, Tom needs a fence post.
MR. PEEK: No. Seriously, you know, it does --
MR. ABBOTT: Yeah.
MR. PEEK: -- has been a change in process. The question is
a big why so...
MR. SAVAGE: Well -- Mr. Chairman, Herb Savage. You must
understand all metal fences have to be reviewed by fire.
MR. PEEK: This is a concrete fence.
MR. SAVAGE: Concrete?
MR. PERICO: What they can do is use that coupon book that
they give to them. Tom, he doesn't have to come in here to
permit. I got a coupon book if they pick it up, and they can do it
immediately.
But as to why fire is looking at all fences is to make sure it's
Page 23
April 4, 2001
not impeding any flow for emergency to get through. You know,
what -- that's what they have all these permits for.
MR. PEEK: Well, now that -- not to extend this meeting too
long, but that's stupid. You know you're not applying for a fence
to put it across an easement or -- or a roadway. I'm putting
across a back lot line. It has no access permitted for the fire
department or anyone else to go across there.
MR. LONGO: Well, actually, Tom, we have meetings with the
fire guys. So we'll see if we can't sort that out. In the meantime,
you might want to get ahold of Bob Savaggio (phonetic) --
MR. DUANE: Shortest meeting we ever had.
MR. LONGO: -- and see if you can't --.
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Can you ask them to come -- Ed Riley to
come to the meeting on Wednesday? MR. LONGO: Sure.
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Because I think -- I think, Tom, that we -
- we need to have some sort of process that when changes are
made, that the way -- the permitting process has got to be
reviewed in some fashion so that this doesn't happen and we
learn the hard way.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: My -- my guess is that part of the new
tracking method we have for a lot of the permits, even a minor
FTP amendment now is required to be tracked through all the
different departments, whereas normally it just went to the
departments that were affected by a change. So now an
engineering change is even reviewed by the fire.
MR. LONGO: I'd -- I'd like to hear their argument as to why it
has to go the fire -- review. And there -- there might be a good
reason, but I agree that we just shouldn't be changing permit
process in midstream.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. We'll bring that up in
subcommittee, I think, would be a better place to discuss that
Page 24
April 4, 2001
further.
Any comments from any of our visitors today? Go ahead.
MR. ELLIS: I'm David Ellis with the Collier Building Industry
Association. I promised you I would come every month and tell
you what I know about the new building codes.
If you remember our report from last month, which was we
don't know anything more, it's the same report. I was in
Tallahassee with Dino Monday, and we asked -- and we are still
waiting to get a copy of the code. That was going to for sure be
here last month, but they're confident, fairly confident, we'll have
it by the end of this month. So as soon as we have it, we'll let
you know. The lobbying and the legislature now is that either -- it
has been proposed by the statewide building code that the code
become effective October 1st, but there's general consensus
among people that -- that understand the process that January
1st is more likely the date.
We will continue to update you. We can -- we have the class
with -- I met with the folks that are going to teach the classes
through the school system, through the university system,
yesterday. They're prepared to teach classes on the code. I've
got a guy who's going to come down from Florida Home Builders
Association who's been a part of the code process to explain a
lot of what it means. We've met with Ed. We're all ready to go.
We just need that code and the -- the training book, which we'll
keep you posted on that.
On the sewer issue, I know there's been a lot going on.
There's another follow-up meeting with county staff next
Tuesday at four o'clock at my office or at here on Enterprise.
Everyone's welcome to come. The county staff has been very
good about meeting with us and updating us on just what's
happening. And, as you know, we're in the final stages now of
the consent order in the interconnect with the city. Those things
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April 4, 2001
are progressing. So, again, if you're -- if you're interested and you
have clients or whoever, they're welcomed to come. It's four
o'clock next Tuesday at our office.
And I would ask John -- I don't know if there's anything that
you want to mention to these guys about the meeting next -- not
this Friday but next Friday. Isn't that when we're doing the
workshop on the development review process?
MR. DUNNUCK: That's correct. April 12th, I believe it is, is -
- we're doing the development review workshop, which is, we're
going to walk them through the process. The -- the main focus of
it is to educate the board and to let them learn exactly how the
whole process works.
The second part of it is to talk to them about where we can
add more public participation. That's been a -- a concern, you
know, of this board, and it's been a concern of staff because
that's the one thing that we consistently get beat up on, is the
fact that we do not let the general public know what's going on
or the community where they're being affected, what's going on.
We do this lee -- we hide behind this little thing, this
advertisement that's this (indicating) big in the paper ten days in
advance. And we say, '~/ell, you should have known," you know.
And we're going to be bringing back some recommendations in
that regard, at which time what will happen is, the board will give
us directions or -- or -- in -- you know, unofficially give us
direction to go back, and then we'll bring back some policy
changes through the DSAC, but you're all welcome to attend.
MR. ELLIS: And my question, really, in relation to that John,
was that -- would that be an appropriate form for any concerns
like we have through DSAC to bring back to the board to come
forth, like -- about some of the additional advisory committees
and things, or is that a different process?
MR. DUNNUCK: That's probably a different process,
Page 26
April 4, 2001
because what we're talking about, as I said, is where we are with
the current process and what -- you know, we -- we'd like to
change. I intend on, as I said, bringing back an executive
summary. You know, if you're talking about advisory boards and
-- and roles, you know, I'll -- I'll bring back something to the next
meeting to address the most recent issue. But -- but our intent is
to just stick to the development review process at this time.
And we're also going to talk to them about where we are
with these subcommittees as far as -- because we also told the
board when we raised the permit fees that we were working with
you-all to talk about level of service standards and where we're
going to be. And we're going to touch upon that with the
understanding that the main time that they're going to see those
changes is during the budget process, which will be in June,
which is where we would make proposed budget changes if -- if
you-all want to raise that level of service or we found ways
where we can be more efficient, vice versa.
MR. ELLIS: And just one last thing: Those of you that do
business in the City of Naples, they have formed now a similar
committee, not really as formally as the Development Services
Advisory Committee, but they now have a monthly advisory
committee meeting for -- through the trades. And the builders,
subcontractors, and folks meet with them and talk about their
process.
And they met for three months now and are looking for
additional input. Any of you that do business in the city and
would like to participate in that, I think they would welcome that.
You just want to contact Bob Devlin over there. I just say that -- I
know many of you do business there, and that might be helpful to
you.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay. Thank you.
MR. ABBOTT: What time Friday is that?
Page 27
April 4, 2001
MR. DUNNUCK.' Nine a.m.
MR. ABBOTT: There's not any --
MR. DUNNUCK: It's Thursday.
and I think it's at 9 a.m. Yup.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Okay.
anyone?
It's -- Thursday's the 12th,
Any other comments from
Go ahead, Bruce.
MR. ANDERSON: Just on what John was talking about about
the notice requirements and everything. If we are going to go
beyond the minimum requirements of the statutes, then let's do it
all the way and the county provide notice when they are
initiating things, apply the same requirements to the county that
you would now be applying to property owners, whether it be
comp plan amendments or changes to the C-5 or other zoning
districts.
MR. MULHERE'. Are you talking about LDC amendments?
MR. ANDERSON: Yes. Yes. Let's really make sure that
people know.
MR. MULHERE: The intent is to include that in -- in the
recommendations that we're going to make for broader public
notice. One of the things that we're going to recommend is the
creation of a -- of a website where applications for development
are posted on the website early in the process, probably within a
couple of weeks deeming to be sufficient, and then every report
that follows would also be posted. People can click on a website
by geo -- geographic area. It will bring up the developments that
are in review in their area. They can review those.
Also, we're talking about allowing them then to subscribe to
that website so they would be updated when -- they would be
notified by e-mail when amendments or changes or additions are
put on the website. And they can also comment electronically.
And then the other thing we're talking about is actually
Page 28
April 4, 2001
requiring for some threshold of public hearing that the developer
notify the residents and hold a public meeting in the community
explaining what the proposal is.
MR. ANDERSON: May I respond to that last comment about
the developer notifying the residents? I know that I speak for a
lot of people --
MR. MULHERE: You do it already so...
MR. ANDERSON: -- is that we would rather that the county
be the one to send out the notice, because if we miss somebody
because there's been a change on the tax roll, it will be viewed
as a developer conspiracy -- MR. MULHERE: Yeah.
MR. ANDERSON: -- to keep the people uninformed.
MR. MULHERE: Bruce, the suggestion I'm making is that the
county would provide you with that notified -- that list. So we
would be responsible for providing you with the list, so it would
be our responsibility.
MR. DUNNUCK: But you'd pay for it.
MR. MULHERE: But you'd be paying for it.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Very good.
adjourn?
MR. DUANE: So move.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: So moved.
MR. ESPINAR: Second.
CHAIRMAN MASTERS: Seconded.
(Unanimous response.)
CHAIRMAN MASTERS:
With that, a motion to
And all in favor?.
Opposed?
There being no further business for the good of the County,
Page 29
April 4, 2001
the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 4'-16 p.m.
DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADVISORY COMMITTEE
THOMAS MASTERS, CHAIRMAN
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF DONOVAN COURT
REPORTING, INC., BY BARBARA. DONOVAN, RMR, CRR
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