CEB Minutes 03/22/2001 RMarch 22, 2001
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
MARCH 22, 2001
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Code Enforcement Board in
and for the County of Collier met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in a
REGULAR SESSION in Building F of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
ALSO PRESENT:
CHAIRMAN:
Clifford Flega!
Robert Dusek
Peter Lehmann
Rhona Saunders
George Ponte
Kathryn Godfrey-Lint
Diane Taylor
Jean Rawson, Legal Counsel
Michelle Arnold, Code Enforcement Director
Maria Cruz, Code Enforcement Investigator
Page 1
Date:
Location:
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD OF COLI. IF.R cOUNTY, FbORIDA
March 22, 9.001 at 9:00 o'clock A.M.
350~ E. Tamiami Tr.. NaDles, Florida, Collier County Government Center,
A~inistrative Bldg, 3rd Floor
NOTE: ANY PERSON W~O DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF T~IS BOARD WILL NEED ~ RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTA/NING T~R~TO, AND THeReFORE ~AY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A
VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADe, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE T~$TIMOb~Y AND
~VIDENCE UPON WHIC~ THE APPEA~ IS TO BE BASED. NEITMER COLLIER COUNTY NOR THE CODE
ENFORCEMENT BOARD SHALL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING TMIS RECORD-
2.
3-
4.
5.
11.
T O R
OV
PR L ES February 22, 2001
A. BCC vs. Tim Flick
B. BCC vs. Richard R. Townsend
C. BCC vs. Steven Scott Lane
D. BCC vs. Somsanith Thammavong and Tamchay Insixiengma¥
E. BCC vs. vic=or A. Hansen
Quarterly Foreclosure Report
COMMENTS
E AT~
April 16, 2001
C~B NO, 2001-007
CEE No. 2001-010
CEB NO. 2001-011
CEB NO. 2001-014
CEE No. 2001-016
March 22, 2001
CHAIRMAN PONTE: We'll call the Code Enforcement Board to
order. Please make note that any person who decides to appeal
a decision of this board will need a record of the proceedings
pertaining thereto, and therefore may need to insure that a
verbatim record of the proceeding is made, which record
includes the testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to
be based.
Neither Collier County nor the Code Enforcement Board shall
be responsible for providing this record. May we have roll call?
MS. CRUZ: For the record, Maria Cruz, code enforcement
investigator.
Roberta Dusek?
MS. DUSEK: Here.
MS. CRUZ: Clifford Flegal?
MR. FLEGAL: Here.
MS. CRUZ: Kathryn Godfrey?
MS. GODFREY-LINT: Present.
MS. CRUZ: Peter Lehmann?
MR. LEHMANN: Here.
MS. CRUZ: Let the record show Darrin Phillips advised there
would be a scheduled conflict and he would be absent from this
meeting.
George Ponte?
MR. PONTE: Here.
MS. CRUZ: Rhona Saunders?
MS. SAUNDERS: Here,
MS. CRUZ: Diane Taylor?
MS. TAYLOR: Present.
CHAIRMAN PONTE: Since we are one permanent member
short, Ms. Lint as alternate will fill that vacancy today and vote
on everything that is brought before the board.
First order of business will be our annual meeting and election
of officers. Each March we are required to elect a chairman and
a vice chairman.
MS. DUSEK: Mr. Chairman, before we again with the election
of officers, I have a proposal to make, and I hope that the board
will look at this seriously and objectively.
I haven't talked to any one of you about this. Last year we
made a change in our rules and regulations in Article 4, Section
Page 2
March 22, 2001
2, that a chairman could serve for more than one term.
I would like to make a proposal that this be changed to not
more than two consecutive terms, and my reason for this, as I
am sure all of you have been, I have been in a lot of organizations
and on a lot of boards, and on not any of them does a chairman
serve more than two terms.
I am also hoping that Cliff will not take this personally. It
wouldn't matter to me whether it was Diane, Kathryn, George,
Rhona, Peter, or myself sitting in the position of the
chairmanship. I think it's healthy that there be a change and a
different approach.
Now, some of you may not feel you're qualified. I think
everyone on this board is qualified to serve as chairman. Some
of you may not choose to take that responsibility, but I think the
opportunity should be given to someone else.
This is not to say that our present chairman hasn't done a
spectacular job. And I again hope that this will not be -- this
proposal will not be taken as a personal type of proposal, but I do
think that it's healthy for the public and healthy for the board and
give strength to the board to see a change every two years.
And then if the chairman who was on the board as the
chairman previously and is still on the board after another term
has lapsed, then that person can run again. But I feel quite
strongly about that, and I hope you will consider this.
At the same time, I would like to make a nomination of a
person on the board, if I am in order to do that. I don't know
what the protocol is.
MS. RAWSON: We will probably deal with one motion at that
time.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Have you made a motion to change our
rules and regulations, is that what I'm hearing?
MS. DUSEK: I'd like to make a motion that we change -- that
the term be not more than two consecutive terms.
MR. LEHMANN: Jean, we have our rules coming up for
amendment anyway recently. Is that correct?
MS. RAWSON: We do. And I was just looking through here to
see if I've got them, but I think ! probably left them on my
computer.
You know, her motion's well taken. It's actually very timely
because I will have a draft of new rules and regulations to
Page 3
March 22, 200t
present to you at the next meeting anyway.
MR. LEHMANN: I am just looking at Article 4, Election of
Officers. In Section 2 it says, "A candidate receiving a majority
vote shall be declared elected and shall serve a term of one year,
which term is not limited to one year, or until a successor shall
take office."
So that's kind of how, I guess, the rules are --
MS. DUSEK: That's how it's written today, yes. MR.
LEHMANN: So at this point in time, I guess, any officer can serve
indefinitely.
MS. RAWSON: Correct. The way it's written.
MR. PONTE: In any event, if we were to make that change, it
wouldn't be effective this year because the meeting is to be in
March. We would have to change that. It would have to be
effective next year.
MS. RAWSON: Well, it wouldn't be effective -- it could be
effective today. We are ready to start the election of new
officers today.
MR. PONTE: Not to change the rules today.
MS. RAWSON: That's probably true because you are going to
elect the officers today, and if you vote to change the rule today
before you have the election, you can vote to change the rules
today.
MR. PONTE: If we were going to have that opportunity, I
would have liked to have known that, so we could review all the
rules, as we did last year.
MR. LEHMANN: Well, in fact, that's part of the rules
themselves that the rules have to be presented at a prior
meeting for us to review them. MS. RAWSON: That's true.
MR. LEHMANN: I agree with my colleague. I think we can
make the proposal at this meeting, but I don't know that we can
make it effective this meeting.
MS. RAWSON: That may be because I'm going to bring you -- if
this one passes, I'll bring you that with the other changes that
I'm going to recommend, probably at the next meeting.
MS. SAUNDERS.' In theory, I agree with you, Bobble. I do feel
a little uncomfortable doing it at this time, so I would be much
more favorably inclined to vote it in and start it next year. But I
do agree that it needs to rotate just for different styles and
Page 4
March 22, 2001
approaches.
MS. DUSEK: Well, even -- and I think that that's probably
correct that it would have to be in effect for next year because
we do need some warning when proposals are being changed.
And certainly, I think that would be healthy.
At the same time, and again, you have to remove personalities
from -- and I really hope that you all are understanding that I am
removing personalities, and Cliff, especially you. MR. FLEGAL: Not a problem.
MS. DUSEK: Even though this may not be in effect, I would
still like to see a new person with a new approach, and Cliff
would still be on our board as strength to the board.
With this new person, you have the resources of Michelle, you
have the resources of Jean to guide you through it, and I just feel
quite strongly that it's something we should do. And in saying
that, well, we haven't voted on the next year's proposals, so --
MS. RAWSON: Well, if that's a motion and there's a second,
then you're going to vote for it. It's probably timely because
depending on what your outcome is, I can put this in the draft for
the rules.
Then I would give you all of the rules next month because it
says in Section t, the rules and regulations may be revised
provided notice of a proposed change is given to the board at a
preceding regular meeting.
So I'm going to give you all the changes next month, and if we
have two meetings next month, then the second meeting you can
vote of them after you've had a chance to read them all because
I have got several proposed changes in there that have to do
with motions, as I told you before, motions to abate, motions to
set aside.
MS. DUSEK: So what do we do today? Is this just a proposal,
and then it's brought up at the next meeting, or --
MS. RAWSON: Well, I think basically -- here's what it says
exactly: "These rules and regulations may be revised in a
manner not inconsistent with state statutes and county
ordinances during a regular meeting by the affirmative vote of at
least four members of the board, provided notice of a proposed
change is given to the board at a preceding regular meeting."
So, I think technically you are probably giving your notice
today.
Page 5
March 22, 2001
MS. DUSEK: So all I have to do is give notice. We don't really
have to vote on anything?
MS. RAWSON: Correct. You can vote on that next month,
along with all the other proposed changes that I'm going to give
you, which you probably shouldn't vote on until the meeting after
that because then I am only giving you my proposed changes
next time.
MS. DUSEK: So in two months we can vote on everything?
MS. RAWSON: Correct. And it might not be two months. It
might be next month at the second meeting.
MS. DUSEK: Ali right. Then I'm proposing that suggestion. I'd
also like to say that there are two people on this board right now
who have served as vice chairman; one is George Ponte and the
other is Peter Lehmann. I'm not sure when it was -- the south
board --
MS. RAWSON: Actually, Rhona -- Rhona also served as vice
chairman.
MS. DUSEK: Well, that's what I was just going to say. I
wasn't sure, I had heard some word that -- Rhona, were you as
chairman or vice chairman?
MS. SAUNDERS: I was vice chair. I served as an alternate
chair for a while there. I don't remember, but I was never
elected chair.
MS. DUSEK: Well, I think one of those three people would
make a fine chairperson. I think anybody who has served on the
board at least one year has the experience to come forward and
be chairman.
And I wish I could nominate all three of you because I think
you all three are absolutely fabulous people to be our chairman,
and I haven't said a word, as I said, to any of you about my
thoughts.
MS RAWSON: Which is good because of the Sunshine Laws.
MS. DUSEK: Right. I would be in trouble. But in order to get
the process started with what I feel quite strongly about, I would
like to make a nomination for one of these three people, and that
nomination would be Peter Lehmann.
So I said a lot this morning. Lot of silence on the board right
now.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, we have a nomination of Mr.
Lehmann for chairman.
Page 6
March 22, 2001
MS. SAUNDERS: I will second that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any more nominations?
MR. PONTE: Yes. I nominate Cliff Flegal.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Is there a second?
MS. GODFREY-LINT: I will second it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any other nominations? Hearing none,
we will have a vote. All those in favor of Mr. Lehmann for
chairman signify by saying "aye."
I guess we need a show of hands because I'm hearing --
Three, okay. Nomination for Mr. Flegal for chairman. All
those signify by saying "aye." Hands, please? Four to three. Mr.
Flegal is elected chair for one more term. Nominations for vice chair?
MS. DUSEK: Then I'll nominate Peter Lehmann for vice chair.
MR. PONTE: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any other nominations for vice chair?.
MS. GODFREY-LINT: I nominate Bobble.
MS. DUSEK: I'll decline that. Not that I wouldn't want to, put
I think that Peter is fine to be in that position. At some other
point I will accept a nomination. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any other nominations? All those in
favor of Mr. Lehmann as vice chairman signify by saying "aye."
Any opposed? Mr. Lehmann is vice chair.
Election of new officers is complete.
Approval of our agenda; changes, additions?
MS. ARNOLD: For the record, Michelle Arnold. We have two
changes. Item B and C under Public Hearings are going to be
removed because both of those items were -- both those cases
were abated prior to this meeting.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That was B and C?
MS. ARNOLD: B and C. That would be Board of County
Commissioners vs. Richard Townsend and Board of County
Commissioners vs. Steven Lane.
And also, I'd like to ask that we move item D, which is now to
C, so it would go Flick, Hansen, and Thammavong. And the
reason why we're asking for that change is, the primary
investigator for that case has a deposition at 9:30, and we're
hoping that he will be back from that deposition.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: So you want E moved up to B, and D
moved up to C?
Page 7
March 22, 2001
MS. ARNOLD: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Any other changes?
I'll entertain a motion to approve our agenda as changed.
MS. TAYLOR: So moved.
MR. PONTE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Motion has been seconded. All those in
favor signify by saying "aye."
Approval of our minutes from February 22. I would note that
there should be a change made in the minutes to reflect that the
members of the board were given a title of commissioner. We
are not commissioners. The minutes need to reflect -- be
changed to reflect that we are not commissioners.
Any other changes to the minutes as submitted? If not, I
would entertain a motion to approve.
MR. PONTE: So moved.
MS. TAYLOR: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL.' A motion and a second to approve the
minutes as changed. All those in favor signify by saying "aye."
Opposed?
We'll now open our public hearings. First case, CEB Case
2001-007.
MS. CRUZ: Let the record show that the respondent, Tim
Flick, is present. We have provided the respondent, along with
the board and the Clerk of Court, a copy of the evidentiary
packet. I would like to request that this packet be admitted into
evidence, if there's no objection from the respondent.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Is Mr. Flick present?
MS. CRUZ: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Mr. Flick, did you receive this package from the
county?
MR. FLICK: Yes, sir, but I haven't read it. It went to my
father's house a few days ago.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Would you have any objection of the
county giving it to us so we can read it and submit it as
evidence?
MR. FLICK: That would be fine.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All right, sir, thank you. I would
entertain a motion to submit -- to accept the county's
submission.
MR. LEHMANN: So move.
Page 8
March 22, 2001
MS. SAUNDERS: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: A motion and a second to accept the
county packet as evidence. All those in favor signify by saying
"aye."
MS. CRUZ: This violation being brought before the board is an
unpermitted accessory structure on unimproved property being
occupied without required permits.
This is a violation of Ordinance Number 91-102, as amended,
of the Collier County Land Development Code, Section 1.5.6 and
Section 2.1.15. The violation exists at the Golden Gate Estates,
unit 37, tract 128. Owner of record is Tim Flick. The address of
record is 2401 County Barn Road, Naples, Florida.
The violation was first observed on April 13, 2000. A notice of
violation was provided to the respondent on April 13, 2000 as
personal service and requiring compliance by April 27th, year
2000.
The last reinspection was conducted this morning, March 22,
year 2001, resulting in violation remaining. I would like to call at
this time investigator Jason Toreky.
(Speakers sworn.)
MR. TOREKY: Basically, I'd just like the summary stated. We
did an investigation, and there's a structure on his property. It's
unpermitted, the property is unapproved.
Throughout the time getting to this time, Mr. Flick wanted to
build a house and add the structure on as an accessory
structure. He started that process with a permitting service.
I've contacted the permitting service several times. There's a
couple items they were missing, and pretty much that's where
it's ended up until today.
We still don't have a permit, and the structure is still there.
He is able to get -- to obtain a temporary permit for the structure,
if need be, through an excavation permit that he has on the
property now.
And that's pretty much where it stands.
MR. PONTE: Is the structure -- is Mr. Flick living in the
structure?
MR. TOREKY: He was staying there on and off, like on
weekends and stuff like that. He hasn't been there since the
actual notice has been issued. He has not stayed there.
MR. PONTE: So he has a permanent residence elsewhere?
Page 9
March 22, 200t
MR. TOREKY: Yes.
MS. TAYLOR: There's electricity to this?
MR. TOREKY: No, there's a generator there. That's how the
complaint actually was originated. Somebody called in a
generator noise coming from the unpermitted structure.
MS. TAYLOR: Then there's not plumbing or anything else, is
there?
MR. TOREKY: Not that I'm aware of.
MS. GODFREY-LINT: I note there's a satellite dish there.
MS. SAUNDERS: But you did say that he could get a permit,
temporary permit?
MR. TOREKY: You can obtain a temporary permit. He went
into the office yesterday and was provided the information that
he would need to obtain that temporary permit.
This is something that just came about recently with that
option.
MS. SAUNDERS: Oh. That's a new option?
MR. TOREKY: That's a new option. That just came up at the
beginning of the week.
MR. PONTE: How did that come about? I'm curious about
that. What generated that new option?
MR TOREKY: The excavation permits -- he has a lake that's
being excavated on the property, and we have spoken to a few
officials within the county if we could permit these as a
temporary structure in con]unction with the lake excavation
permit for storage of equipment and items like that.
During this time, as long as that permit is good, which is
sometime in September, during that time, Mr. Flick -- that would
give him adequate time enough to obtain a building permit for a
house and add this on as an accessory structure.
MR. PONTE: Michelle, does that mean that the staff
recommendation is changed? Because the only recommendation
here is for removal.
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah. The original recommendation was for
the removal because at the time that the execute summary was
prepared, we felt that there wasn't an ability to obtain a permit
for that structure.
We've since learned that there is a possibility for him to
obtain a temporary use permit in conjunction with his excavation
work.
Page 10
March 22, 2001
That would be if authorized and stipulated to be removed after
the excavation activity occurs, provided -- unless he gets a
building permit for a primary structure. Then he can, of course,
leave it there as an accessory structure to that primary
structure.
MR. LEHMANN: Regardless, he could not inhabit that
structure?
MS. ARNOLD: Excuse me?
MR. LEHMANN: Regardless, he could not use that structure
as a habitable space?
MS. ARNOLD: Correct. No. It's intended as storage or as an
accessory to another primary use.
MR. LEHMANN: How long will that process take to actually
get this permitted through them?
MS. ARNOLD: To obtain the temporary use permit? I believe
he was given information this week with respect to what would
be required to submit, as far as plans and engineered drawings.
The typical type of structure that is authorized with an
excavation site is normally a trailer. Somebody moves in a
trailer, and it's a temporary structure.
This one's a little bit different. It's actually fixed to the
ground. It's a permanent structure. Because it's a permanent
structure, some additional engineering drawings will be required
with the submittal.
Now, that will lengthen the time frame for them to obtain the
temporary use permit.
MR. LEHMANN: First off, I am assuming that this is a doable
thing. Is that correct?
MS. ARNOLD: Uh-hum.
MR. LEHMANN: Secondly, define that time frame. What are
we looking at, 10 days, 30 days, 60?
MS. ARNOLD: Well, because of the engineering requirements,
the time frame is not within the county's purview. It's him
obtaining somebody to draw plans up and then submit it. I don't
know what that time frame would be. Once he submits it to the
county, it's a 30-day review period.
MR. TOREKY: I think if he submits it within the next 30 days,
that's adequate time.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any additional questions for the county?
Thank you, sir. Mr. Flick?
Page 11
March 22, 2001
MR. FLICK: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Would you like to come up an tell us
your side of this tale, please? The microphone, sir.
MR. FLICK: Well, basically, it's just been explained pretty
much by Jason. I've had the property for 14 years now, and the
structure's pretty much -- I painted it up a little bit, fixed it up.
But right now I need it more than ever for storage for the
excavation, and rainy season's coming up. It does pretty good
for dry storage.
Off and on, I stayed there for weekends because I was
growing trees and things like that. Just to get away from town.
But since I got, basically, kicked out of there, I got another
residence. I'm not -- I don't stay there on the weekend.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: What are you doing as far as trying to
get these structures permitted?
MR. FLICK: I will do what they tell me to do, I guess. I plan
on building a house there, but since I came up with the lake, I
put some money into that instead of the house because I was
trying to pull my money in together from what I'm getting off the
lake.
And I've been into it for six months now, so I've got another
six months on my permit. So hopefully by then I will pull my
money together and get the house going.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The option of getting a temporary permit
for the structure, is that something you're going to pursue or --
MR. FLICK: Yes, sir. I was kind of up in the air about it all
but, yes, I do want to do it. I want to go ahead and get permits
for it. I do plan on putting a house there, and I have been in
Collier County since 1962 and that was always my dream as a
kid was to have a house here. It's getting tougher and tougher,
but I'm going to do it.
MS. ARNOLD: Mr. Flick, do you have drawings for the
structure that --
MR. FLICK: Yes, I did. Yesterday it took about two hours. I
didn't do it professionally. I'm an architectural draftsman, so I
can draw up what you need to have,.but I did a little drawing of
the basic sound structure of it.
MS. ARNOLD: So you have the drawings that are needed to be
submitted for the temporary use permit?
Page 12
March 22, 2001
MR. FLICK: I probably need to elaborate on them a little
more, put them on regular vellum, but I do have -- I mean, a
picture is worth a thousand words. Jason has got the outside
picture, I have got the mechanical pictures of it.
It's sound. It's been through a lot of hurricanes or near
hurricanes and tropical storms, and I had a generator out there
when nobody else had electricity. I guess that's not against the
law, to run a generator when there's a hurricane going on. But I
don't know the difference.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any other questions for Mr. Flick?
Thank you, sir.
MR. FLICK: You're welcome.
MS. ARNOLD: Mr. Lehmann, just to elaborate back on your
question, it appears that he has some of those drawings that
would be required for the permit, so it would be a shorter time
frame to obtain them externally and submit.
MR. LEHMANN: And just for the board's benefit and me
thinking through the timeline, if the county is looking at 30 days
to process this permit, his engineering plans for trusses and so
will probably take two to three weeks. So if the board is looking
at a 60-day deadline, I think that would be more realistic.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: First for the board is to have a finding of
fact that there in fact is a violation.
MS. DUSEK: I move that there is a violation in the case of the
Board of County Commissioners vs. Tim Flick, CEB Number
2001-007.
The violation is of sections 1.5.6 and 2.1.15 of Ordinance No.
91-t02, as amended, Collier County Land Development Code
Ordinance.
And the description of the violation is an unpermitted
accessory structure on unimproved property being occupied.
MR. LEHMANN: Second that motion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second that
there is in fact a violation. Any further discussion?
MS. ARNOLD: Can I just point out that the occupancy part of
-- it has been testified that the structure's not occupied as
originally it was when we first initiated the case, so it would be
just the existing -- the existing violation is just the existence of
the structure without permits.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That doesn't change the two sections.
Page 13
March 22, 2001
Correct?
MS. ARNOLD: No, it doesn't.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The violation is against the two sections
of the ordinance. We have a motion and a second. Any further
discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying "aye." Any opposed?
Order of the board.
I think as Mr. Lehmann stated that the board should consider
probably a 60-day period rather than a 30. I think that's more
realistic.
MS. DUSEK: And the 60-day period is for a permit for
temporary use. Is that correct?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: To obtain whatever permit is required, I
would say, and/or remove the structure.
Give him the option, don't just order him to obtain a permit,
iust in case. You know, strange things happen. He may decide it
would be easier to get rid of it.
But I think we ought to give him the option to either obtain
the required permits, whichever they may be, and/or remove the
structure within 60 days, I think would be probably a good
motion.
MS. DUSEK: That sounded good, Cliff. I'll second that motion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I see. Walked me into that one, didn't
you? I think that would be reasonable, so I would make that
motion that respondent obtain required permits and/or remove
the structure within a 60-day period.
If in fact that doesn't happen, I might as well just continue the
motion. I would be willing to go along with the recommendation
of staff that a fine of $50 a day be imposed for each and every
day the violation remains.
Additionally, I would recommend we order the respondent to
pay the costs of prosecuting the case before the board.
MS. TAYLOR: I second it.
MS. DUSEK: I second it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any further discussion?
MS. SAUNDERS: Yes. Just one thing. I think there's a
possibility that this case might be back before us after the
temporary permit expires, and if he hasn't obtained a permanent
permit, I want to make sure that we've got it so that this can be
a -- is considered a repeating violation or a recurring violation.
Page 14
March 22, 2001
In other words, that he needs to keep permits on this
structure. So, before the temporary runs out, you need to obtain
the permanent. Otherwise, we're right back where we are.
MR. FLICK: Right. I have full intention on getting a permit for
a house.
CHAIRMAN FI. EGAL: Ms. Rawson, if we order the respondent
to obtain the required permits and/or remove the structure --
MS. RAWSON: That should cover it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I don't think we get into~ if you get a
permit, you then have to get a permanent -- I think that's a little
beyond, isn't it? Just obtain the required permits, period, and if
he fails to do that, or he gets them and they run out, then the
county would have to cite him again, I would think, because he
now doesn't have any permits. Would that be --
MS. RAWSON: Obtain required permits or remove structure
within 60 days should cover it.
MR. LEHMANN: Does that allow the county to cite this
respondent as a reoccurring violation? MS. RAWSON: Yes.
MR. PONTE: Mr. Chairman, I just -- repeat for me? I think I
missed the findings part.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: It was recommended what the staff said,
$50 a day. We have a motion and a second. Any further
discussion? All those in favor signify by saying "aye."
Any opposed? Mr. Flick, do you understand?
MR. FLICK: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All right. Next case, CEB 2001-016.
MS. CRUZ: This is the Board of County Commissioners vs.
Victor A. Hansen, 2001-016.
Let the record show that the respondent is not present.
However, there was a packet that was sent to the respondent
with a notice of this hearing, and that packet was received. I
have a receipt signed by the respondent on March 14th, 2001.
I'd like to request that this packet be admitted into evidence,
marked Composite Exhibit A, please.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL.: Since respondent is not present, I would
entertain a motion to accept the packet as evidence.
MR. LEHMANN: Mr. Chairman, one real quick question. You
say you have a certified mail receipt of notice of hearing on
March 14th?
Page 15
March 22, 2001
MS. CRUZ: That's correct.
MR. LEHMANN: Is that not insufficient time for notification of
the hearing?
MS. CRUZ: The notice was sent on March 8th, 2001, but the
respondent apparently picked up the mail on March 14th, 2001.
MR. LEHMANN: Okay. And, Jean, maybe you can help me on
this. Our rules and regulations, Article 7, Section 3, state, "The
secretary shall provide the notice in a manner which will enable
an alleged violator to receive a minimum of 10 days notice prior
to the hearing at which the alleged violator's case will be
presented to the board."
And the definition of providing that notice is the date he
receives it or the date we sent it?
MS. ARNOLD: The date we sent it has always been the date
that we have applied to that rule. MR. LEHMANN: I'm sorry?
MS. ARNOLD: The date that it's sent is the date that we
always applied to the rule because we have no control over when
people pick up their mail.
MS. RAWSON: That's true. Tell me what section that is.
MR. LEHMANN: I have got it as Article 7.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL.' That's the rules and regulations. What's
the statute, the ordinance, say? MS. RAWSON: Ten days.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Our rules don't take precedence over the
ordinance.
MR. L. EHMANN: No. The statutes don't refer to it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Was it posted?
MS. CRUZ: No, sir, not this one.
MR. LEHMANN: My concern with this particular case is, did
we provide sufficient notice? The statute or ordinance,
governing ordinance, don't really speak of the timelines and so
on and so forth. The only thing that speaks of it is our own rules
and regulations, unfortunately.
I just wanted to make sure before we proceed with the case
that we actually have given proper notice, and we don't have any
grounds for appeals on technicalities and things like that.
MS. RAWSON.' This is our rule. The 10-day rule is what you
voted on, and it does -- it's not in the statute or the ordinance.
Maybe I need to work on the writing on this one, too, as long as
Page 16
March 22, 2001
I'm into revising the rules.
MR. PONTE: But it's common practice, is it not, throughout
business and law, that you recognize the postmark as the date?
MS. RAWSON: That's correct. It's the mailbox rule.
MR. PONTE: And I think that's the rule that applies.
MS. RAWSON: Because as Michelle properly pointed out, we
don't have any control over when they pick up the mail.
MS. ARNOLD: And what we have typically gone by is if we
haven't received a return signature receipt, then we'll post the
property 10 days just prior to assure they have received their
packet, and in this particular case, obviously, they have received
the packet, and we had spoken to somebody as late as yesterday
regarding the case.
MR. LEHMANN.' Well, I apologize for delaying the hearing, but
I just wanted to make sure that we were proceeding according to
all the guidelines, we didn't have any loopholes sitting out there.
MS. RAWSON.' No. I appreciate that, Peter. And I am going to
fix the language in that section.
MS. CRUZ: You want me to go on? The violation brought
before this board is the existence of a wooden privacy fence
installed in the rear yard exceeding the six-foot maximum height
allowed for a residentially zoned area without a valid permit.
This is a violation of Ordinance No. 91-102, the Collier County
Land Development Code, Section 2.7.6, Paragraph I and 5, and
Section 2.6.11.2.2.
The address where the violation exists is 813 103rd Avenue
North, Naples, Florida, and is more particularly described as
Naples Park, Unit 1, Block 8, Lot 28. The owner of record is
Victor A. Hansen. His address of record is 813 103rd Avenue
North, Naples, Florida.
The violation was observed on March 10th, 2000. There was a
notice of violation provided to the respondent via certified mail,
which notice was received. This notice was dated October 6,
2000, with a compliance date of October 23rd, 2000.
The last reinspection was conducted yesterday, March 21st,
2001, resulting violation remaining at this time.
At this time I have investigator Shawn Luedtke to testify for
this case.
(Speaker sworn in.)
MR. LUEDTKE: For the record, Shawn Luedtke, Collier County
Page 17
March 22, 2001
Code Enforcement Investigator. We received this complaint on
March 10 of 2000. It's about a fence that was over the six-foot
maximum height requirement in a residentially zoned area
located at 813 103rd Avenue North.
We had an investigator, Dennis Mazzone, with our department
respond out there and observed a wooden privacy fence, six-foot
in height~ and towards the end of the -- or the back of the
property, he has had an additional fence installed inside this
fence, extending up to 10 foot.
We went ahead, and Investigator Mazzone did speak with the
gentleman, Mr. Hansen, on site~ gave him a verbal, told him that
he would need to obtain the proper permits for the fence
because the six-foot privacy fence was not permitted, and that
he would have to reduce the 10-foot section or just completely
remove that, bring the total fence in to six foot.
On March 20th, I personally checked the site and observed
that the violation remained. No permits had been obtained at
that time. I posted my card on-site for Mr. Hansen to return my
call. I never got a response on that.
On March 29th, we had a third investigator, Investigator
Teresa Beck, respond to the site. Did make contact with Mr.
Hansen. Gave him a verbal, told him exactly what needed to be
done and the permit process, and how he had to obtain one.
On April 7, a permit was obtained by Mr. Hansen for the fence,
to bring the total fence into compliance and to reduce the fence
to six-foot maximum height.
Due to the permit being open and active for six months, we
went ahead and just did random checks throughout a period of
time to check the status to see if he was bringing that fence into
compliance and had the proper inspections done.
The permit expired on October 3rd of 2000~ and we did not
receive -- let's see, on that particular permit, the permit was not
inspected, and the fence was still in violation, at which time we
issued a notice of violation requesting compliance by October
23rd.
By October 23rd, he was still in violation. We went ahead and
set it for Code Enforcement Board. ! have since been in contact
with Mr. Hansen's attorney, a Mr. Steve Grover, who is working
with the county to try to obtain what's called a "height
administrative variance" for a height waiver request. He
Page 18
March 22, 2001
submitted it as late as yesterday.
County's looking at five to ten days to review this particular
request and determine whether they are going to approve the
height of the 10-foot in the back section of the fence, but the last
contact we had was as of yesterday, and the fence was still in
violation.
MR. LEHMANN: Ms. Rawson, one quick question. If the board
hears the case and finds a violation, and then the county, in turn,
approves the variance, what effect does that have?
MS. RAWSON: Well, you'd have to come back and set aside
your order, so you might think about that in making your
recommendations.
You may give him some time to obtain a variance or, if not, he
has to come into compliance by other means~ like removing the
structure.
MR. LEHMANN'. Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Does the county have evidence -- have
you found any evidence in the file that the respondent is, in fact,
requesting a variance?
MR. LUEDTKE: Yes, sir. He did actually submit with the
county the form, the request, and the application, yesterday.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yesterday?
MR. LUEDTKE: Yes, sir.
MS. TAYLOR: Does he give a reason that he wants all this~
especially this 10-foot section?
MR. LUEDTKE: Privacy, ma'am. He says that due to the
neighbor next door to the west, the property to the west is a
little higher, and they can see over the standard six-foot fence
because his property is a little lower.
So he wants that additional two foot to give him kind of a
little privacy there. He doesn't want his neighbors looking over
into his property on this back corner.
MS. GODFREY-LINT: That's why I moved to the Estates.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL-' Any additional questions for the county?
Thank you, sir.
Since we have no respondent, the board needs to find that
there in fact is a violation or if there is not.
MS. DUSEK.' Well, it appears as though there clearly is a
violation, and so I guess I'll make the motion that there is a
violation in the case of Board of County Commissioners vs. Victor
Page 19
March 22, 2001
Hansen, CEB Case No. 2001-016.
The violation is of sections 2.7.6, parenthesis I and 5, and
2.6.11.2.2 of Ordinance No. 91-102, the Collier County Land
Development Code.
Description of the violation: Existence of a wooden privacy
fence installed in the rear yard, exceeding the six-foot maximum
height allowed for a residentially zoned area, without a valid
permit.
MS. SAUNDERS: I will second that motion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second there is
in fact a violation. Any further discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying "aye." All those opposed?
Order of the board.
MR. PONTE: Staff recommendation, I would think.
MR. LEHMANN: Staff's recommendation is to obtain the
permits within 15 days. I think that would preclude their ability
to request a variance.
MS. ARNOLD: The variance that he would need is an
administrative variance, and he has already submitted it.
Staff has said in short of two weeks it would be approved, and
the permit application in process review for a fence permit is an
express permit, and they can obtain it in one day.
MR. LEHMANN: Let me see if I understand the timelines on
this thing. The administrative review takes how long internally
within the county?
MS. ARNOLD: They've indicated two weeks maximum.
MR. LEHMANN-' Internally within the county?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
MR. LEHMANN: Okay. And some documents are needed to
submit with that?
MS. ARNOLD: They've already submitted it yesterday. It's
already been submitted.
MR. LEHMANN: Okay. So we've already got the review
submitted. We should have an answer, yes or no, within two
weeks?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
MR. LEHMANN: The permit for the fence is an express permit,
and obviously, removing it is removing it. MS. ARNOLD: Right.
MR. LEHMANN: So Mr. Ponte, your comment was 15 days,
Page 20
March 22, 2001
then?
MR. PONTE: Yes.
MS. DUSEK: I'm always a little hesitant to go with such a
tight constraint, even though Michelle has indicated that it would
actually be within a three-week period. I'm always a "just in
case" type of person to allow him a few more days.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Of--
MR. LEHMANN: Well, this case has been going on for over a
year already. It's not as if the county hasn't provided time for the
respondent to come into compliance.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Right. Maybe we should consider it to
be fair/reasonable, since the county has been involved in the
case for a year, rather than 15 days.
If we give the respondent 30 days to obtain a variance and/or
permit and/or remove the violation, I don't think that would be
inconsiderate, the additional 15 days. At this point, I don't think
it's going to hurt anybody, now that we're this far down the pike.
Just to make sure there's no slip-ups, having not seen the
paperwork, I don't know if it's complete. The county obviously
doesn't know at this point.
MS. ARNOLD: They do know. I just indicated it. They
submitted it, and it was accepted yesterday.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: So it was accepted yesterday, so the
variance could be issued today?
MS. ARNOLD: They indicated to us two weeks maximum. If
they wanted to sit down and not look at anything else, they could
possibly do it today, but there's a time frame in there that they
have established for review and approval, and they indicated to
us two weeks.
MS. DUSEK: Michelle, if it's been accepted, what does that
mean?
MS. ARNOLD: For completeness. Anything that is submitted,
it's reviewed to determine whether or not all the i's are dotted,
all the t's are crossed.
It's been reviewed and submitted, and all that is needed has
been verified, and now it just takes the county's planning
department some time to review it and determine whether or not
the information justifies an approval of the variance.
MR. LEHMANN: Two things in this process bother me. One,
we've been sitting here for a year and the respondent has been
Page 2t
March 22, 200t
not cooperative at all with the county.
The second part that kind of bothers me on the 15-day time
period is, I like the short time period because I'm tired of dealing
with the case, so to speak. I mean, we've been dealing with it
for a year, but the second part of it is, if I go the route of the
variance, and it takes me two weeks to accomplish that
variance, and then I find out I can't do that, now I'm stuck. I
can't remove the fence, I can't do anything at all within the time
period you have given me.
So part of me is saying, hey, we've been telling you for over a
year it's wrong. You need to do all this. So I can understand
both sides of that coin.
MS. DUSEK: I lean toward the period that says they made the
decision yesterday to apply for this, so that's a gamble, and if
they are gambling wrong and do not -- and do not get the
variance, then $25 a day until they get it done sounds just fine to
me,
So I would stay with the staff's recommendation of 15 days.
MS. GODFREY-LINT: I agree.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Let's have a motion then, please.
MS. SAUNDERS: Okay. I'll move that the respondent pay all
prosecution costs and obtain permits within 15 days or remove
the violation or a fine of $25 a day be imposed for each and every
day the violation remains.
MS. TAYLOR: I second that.
MR. LEHMANN: Ms. Rawson, should we make that motion to
say "to obtain permits" or just to come into compliance, giving
him all the options available.
MS. DUSEK: I don't think that time frame gives him time for
all options.
MS. RAWSON: Well, he's got -- as I understand Michelle's
testimony, he would be able to get his variance within two
weeks. So if he got his variance, would then he also need a
permit?
MS, ARNOLD: Yes.
MS. RAWSON: He would, and would that take longer?
MS. ARNOLD: Not the express permit. He can get it in a
couple of hours.
MS. RAWSON: Because it's the expedited permit. Well, I
guess if your question is, should you also put in there "variance,"
Page 22
March 22, 2001
you don't really need to because he's going to get the permit
right after he gets the variance, or he can remove it.
MR. LEHMANN: Okay. So the motion basically stands as it
was originally issued.
MS. DUSEK: Just one more point. Let's -- I'm playing the
devil's advocate. If he doesn't get his variance, and he doesn't
get his express permit, then his option is to remove it within this
15-day period, to do all of that.
This means that he has to act like every hour, you know, once
-- in two weeks he has -- let's say they say no to him as far as the
variance. He can't get his permit, so he has one day in which to
remove the fence.
MS. TAYLOR: You know, he should have thought of all these
things while this was going on for a year. They have explained
this over and over and over.
MS. DUSEK: I understand that, and I'm in agreement with all
of you as far as that goes, but once I see somebody now taking
full steps ahead, then I'm inclined to give them some leniency. If
he hadn't done anything to this point, I wouldn't be inclined to
give him any leniency.
MS. TAYLOR: You know why? Because he's been brought
before the board, that's why. He wouldn't have done anything
had he not been brought before the board. MS. DUSEK: That's probably very true.
MS. LEHMANN: I feel strongly with my colleague this has
gone on long enough. I wonder whether this -- whether the
attorney action is more or less a last minute effort because it
was brought before the board.
They finally decided to take this thing seriously. This has
gone on for a year. They've already had a permit issued. They
let the permit expire with no action on it. I'm sorry. I have a
hard time feeling sympathy for this particular respondent
because I think the respondent hasn't bothered to even try to
comply.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any further discussion? The motion is
15 days, $25 plus all prosecution costs.
Any further discussion? All those in favor signify by saying
"aye."
Any opposed?
Next case, 200t-014.
Page 23
March 22, 2001
MS. CRUZ: Next case is Board of County Commissioners vs.
Somsanith Thammavong and Tamchay -- I'm going to try --
Insixiengmay.
Let the record show that the respondents are not present.
There was a package sent to the respondents via certified mail.
We have not received receipt, but the notices were posted at the
subject property and at the courthouse.
Since the respondents are not here, I would like to request
that this package be admitted into evidence, please, marked
Composite Exhibit A.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Since respondent is absent, I would
entertain a motion to accept the county's exhibit.
MS. DUSEK: So moved.
MS. TAYLOR: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Motion and a second to accept the
county's exhibit.
All those in favor signify by saying "aye."
Any opposed?
MS. ARNOLD: Thank you.
The violation being brought before this board is the
improvement to property without first obtaining the required
building permits.
This is to include a mobile home with multiple wood additions
and 10 shed-type structures and accumulation of litter consisting
of wood, refrigerators, plastic, and cement blocks.
These are violations of Ordinance No. 91-102, Sections 2.7.6,
Paragraph I and 5, and Ordinance 99-5t, the Collier County
Weeds and Litter Ordinance, Section 7.
The owner of record, as stated previously as the respondent,
the violation exists at the property described as section 21,
township 50, range 28, the east half of the northeast quarter of
the northwest quarter of the northeast quarter -- I'll read the folio
number to describe the property in detail: 0482167804.
The violation was first observed on November 4th, 1999. A
notice of violation was provided to the respondent on December
8th, 1999. Compliance was required by January 10th, year 2000.
I believe the reinspection, final reinspection, was conducted
yesterday, and I can have the investigator testify to that,
resulting in the violation remaining at this time.
MS. TAYLOR: The term "improvement," I would think, would
Page 24
March 22, 2001
be used very lightly in looking at these pictures.
MS. ARNOLD: I would like to call investigator David Scribner,
please.
(Speaker sworn.)
MR. SCRIBNER: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I
inherited this case back in December of last year and did the
follow up in the final work on this case and have not had any
contact with Mr. Thammavong in this instance, although I've left
messages as recent as this morning.
I called his house at quarter of eight to see if he would be
attending this hearing. Again, I talked with his son, who I had
previously left messages with relating to his father. This is an
adult son, and have yet to hear back from him. I had one
message left on my machine. He does not have an answering, so
I have been unable to get in touch with him.
I just want to clarify one thing. I didn't make a recheck
yesterday. I actually went to the property on Tuesday. This is a
remote section of the county. This is 70th Avenue Southeast,
what's known as the South Blocks area. It's very difficult to get
in there.
Since the photos that were in your packet were taken more
than a year ago, I actually went there and took a video. It was
the only way I could truly represent what is out there. There's
probably more structures on the property than we even know
about.
There's a fence, and it has been posted "No Trespassing." All
the video was taken from the roadway. Hopefully that video will
start here shortly, so you can see what this property looks like.
MS. TAYLOR: Are there animal pens on here?
MR. SCRIBNER: I wouldn't be surprised, in the back part of
the property. I don't believe this property is being lived in. It
looks more like a camp-type structure. You will be able to see it
from the video.
This is 70th Avenue Southeast. That's the subject property.
You can see there's a wire fence around the outside of it that's
looking towards the west. I believe this is a five-acre parcel, so
anything that's built in the middle of that parcel -- you go around
the edges, you really can't see what's in the middle.
This is the entryway, and I can assure you, Steven Spielberg
has no problem with his job. I see a Ford van parked there. I
Page 25
March 22, 2001
attempted to zoom in and see if I could actually see it. The plate
was expired, but it was so windy, and I wasn't able to zoom in
close enough. Looks like it hasn't been operated in some time.
MS. SAUNDERS: And there are no permits for anything on this
property?
MR. SCRIBNER: I went to the property appraiser's office
yesterday to verify that this -- this property doesn't even have a
property card, believe it or not. The only thing that it has is the
tax bill, which shows only land, no improvements.
MS. SAUNDERS: Well, you have done a great job of trying to
get it. I'm not sure I would have gone near it.
MR. SCRIBNER: You can actually see from the road what
appears to be a wooden structure, but in the middle of this, you
can see right there in the video, there's actually a mobile home
built around by all these structures. MS. SAUNDERS: It does look like a camp.
MS. TAYLOR: He's been busy, I'll say that for him.
MR. SCRIBNER: Not with the phone calls, though.
MS.
TAYLOR: Well, with a hammer and nails.
MR. SCRIBNER: This property was also posted. The notice of
this hearing is posted on the property. I believe it was on the
10th, and as you can see on the video, I was there on the 20th.
The posting is missing, so you can draw your own conclusions to
that.
I've also left my card posted on the fence, and that's the one
way I got a return call. A month later after I posted my card, I
finally got a call back, but I have yet to make personal contact
with them.
You can see the mobile home stuck in the middle of the
structure. It's hard to really see the debris in the yard because
of the vegetation. It's really grown up in that area.
MS. SAUNDERS: Why didn't you put music to it?
MR. SCRIBNER: Actually, when I was taking this film, the
Happy Bear's birthday sign popped up, so I redid some of it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Did you attempt to gain entry to the
property with the assistance of the sheriff's office or anything
like that?
MR. SCRIBNER: I did not. When it's posted "No trespassing,"
we honor their request. We don't attempt to go on it.
I don't think the sheriff's department would have gone on
Page 26
March 22, 2001
unless there was some life or someone's life is in danger on a
posted piece of property.
There's actually some structures in there from this view, but I
wasn't able to get a clear shot of exactly what it is, it's so
covered by vegetation. I believe those may have been some
animal pens at one point.
MR. PONTE: When you talked to Mr. Thammavong's son, do
you get the impression that he's an adult? That is, the son is an
adult?
MR, SCRIBNER: Yes. I asked him this morning if he had
relayed the message that I had left previously. He said, "Yes. I
have left that for my father."
I asked him if he was coming to the meeting today. He said,
"1 don't know. He's already gone."
As you can see in this view, there are some of the plastic
buckets that were talked about in the violation, as well as how
the structure is just set up on some pylons and cement block.
MR. PONTE: There is electricity there?
MR. SCRIBNER: I don't think there is electricity.
MR. PONTE: I thought I saw a light bulb, perhaps not.
MR. SCRIBNER: There may be a light bulb, but's it's probably
run by a generator. You see, it's just an open roof.
MS. GODFREY-LINT: Did they start to build a house there? Is
that what this is?
MR. SCRIBNER: I think it started with the mobile home on the
lot, and things just evolved from that.
MR. PONTE: What would be your professional feeling or guess
as to what all these 10 sheds or more are used for? Are they
closed sheds or open pens?
MR. SCRIBNER: I have never been on the property, so I can
only tell you what I've seen from the road -- from the video that
you're seeing. I've never had the opportunity to actually be in
there.
MR. PONTE: How did you find out that there were t07
Specific number.
MR. SCRIBNER: The previous investigator had access to the
property, and the notice of violation specified the 10th, but since
that time, it's been closed off.
MR. PONTE: When you reviewed the record of the previous
investigation, when the sheriff went into the property, was there
Page 27
March 22, 2001
anything in the notes that suggested what is going on in those
sheds? Was it used for animals, or was it used for migrant
workers?
MR. SCRIBNER: I didn't notice anything in the notes that
there was in any sign of life, actually, at the property. There's no
note that there were animals there or people.
MS. GODFREY-LINT: There is some tire tracks?
MR. SCRIBNER: There is tire tracks through the area. This is
after the rain, but there were no recent tire tracks into that
property since the rain. That's why I think it's probably used as a
camp, and the owner actually has an address and phone number
in Fort Myers.
MR. PONTE: Did you reach his son in Fort Myers?
MR. SCRIBNER: Yes.
MR. LEHMANN.' This case was originally forwarded for
prosecution and then dropped -- or discarded or closed, I should
say. Can you explain how that transaction occurred and how it
affects the status of the case right now?
MR. SCRIBNER: I'm not familiar with what happened in the
past, but at some point, this case was closed and decided to be
reopened and started a new look at the situation. I don't know. I
don't understand what happened in the past.
MR LEHMANN: My concern is, do we have an active ongoing
case since '99, or is this a new case since 2000?
MR. SCRIBNER: No. This is a 1999 case.
MR. LEHMANN: Michelle, it still is active?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes. This is a case you are hearing right, now.
So he's picked it up after a prior investigator. What happened
was, this case was originated by someone that is no longer in
the department, and subsequent investigators looked into the
violation, issued the notice of violation, and then, since shifting
of responsibilities has occurred in the department, David
Scribner picked up the case. So it's a continuing process.
MR. LEHMANN: So it's basically just an oversight where we
didn't close the case at a point in time? MS. ARNOLD: Right.
MR. LEHMANN: So the respondent has been aware that the
case existed since November of '99. Is that correct?
MR. SCRIBNER: That's when the original posting -- this first
notice of violation was December 9 of '99.
Page 28
March 22, 2001
MS. ARNOLD: And there was a subsequent posting in January
of 2000, as well.
MS. DUSEK: So this case is considered a recurring case?
CHAIRMAN FI. EGAL.' No. It was not brought before this
board.
MS. DUSEK.' I noticed on one of the sheets, I forget which one
it is, they have it designated as recurring.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: No. It was never brought before this
board.
MR. PONTE: Was it maybe the north board?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL.' It was never brought before any board. I
think what happened is, for some reason internally, it got
misfiled, closed, or whatever, then got found and reopened. Is
that correct, Michelle?
MS. ARNOLD: Uh-hum.
MS. DUSEK: So the notice of ordinance violation, in order to
correct down at the bottom, "Violation Status," it says
"recurring." That's why I was questioning that.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes. The investigator noted that on the notice
of violation to the property owner, but, as the chairman
indicated, it's actually continuing. It was never corrected. MS. DUSEK: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The first notice was December 8 of '99,
then another notice somewhere in January 6, which was about a
month later, another notice was posted, and then it dropped into
the void and reappeared in December of 2000.
There's about a year where there was no action or interfacing
with the respondent. Is that correct?
MS. ARNOLD: That's what it appears to be.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay.
MR. LEHMANN: And you say that you are still having difficulty
communicating with the respondent?
MR. SCRIBNER: I'm not having any difficulty. He's having the
difficulty.
MR. PONTE: There's no communication at all, is the fact of
the matter.
MR. SCRIBNER: Well, I'm communicating with his son. He's
not responding to any of this. He's not communicating with me.
MR. PONTE: I apologize. I didn't mean to say that.
MS. SCRIBNER: That's okay.
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March 22, 2001
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: You haven't been able to get a phone
number?
MR. SCRIBNER: Oh, yes. I have a phone number for him.
After posting my card on his property and saying, please call me,
that's how I left it.
A month later, I received a phone call from the respondent,
and he left his phone number. I immediately called him back. No
answer. I just kept calling and calling until I got somebody to
answer the phone. Talked to his adult son. Said he needed to
contact me immediately, it was very important. It was about his
property in Naples and a code enforcement case, and I have yet
to hear from him.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And they live in?
MR. SCRIBNER: Fort Myers.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Fort Myers.
MS. DUSEK: I am completely convinced that there's a
violation, and I don't have to hear any more.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any further questions for the county?
Thank you, sir.
MR. SCRIBNER: Thank you.
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion that there is a violation. I am
not going to be able to pronounce their names, but Board of
County Commissioners vs. Thammavong and Tamchay -- you'll
have to forgive me for that pronunciation -- CEB Case Number
2001-014, the violation of Section 2.7.6, paragraph I and 5, of
Ordinance No. 91-102, the Collier County Land Development
Code, and Section 7, of Ordinance 99-51, the Collier County
Weeds and Litter Ordinance.
The description of the violation: Improvement to property
without obtaining all required building permits, which includes
mobile home with multiple wood additions, 10 shed-type
structures; and also accumulation of litter, consisting of wood,
refrigerators, plastic, and cement blocks.
MS. SAUNDERS: I would second that motion.
CHAIRMAN FI. EGAL: We have a motion and a second that
there is, in fact, a violation. Any further discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying "aye."
Any opposed?
MR. PONTE: Before we go on to the possible following the
recommendation of staff regarding fining, it's my feeling that the
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March 22, 2001
fine should be increased over what the staff has recommended
and the time frame shortened. MS. TAYLOR: I agree.
MR. PONTE: This respondent -- we've got to get his attention,
and we're not getting it this way, so I think we'll have to hit him
stiffer with the penalty than the one recommended.
MS. TAYLOR: I agree.
MS. SAUNDERS: I agree.
MR. LEHMANN: Well, I agree with the increase in the fine, but
I think that if we shorten the time limit as one of the options of
him removing it, I don't think they can remove this volume in 30
days.
MS. TAYLOR: You want to bet he never removes it?
MR. LEHMANN.' No, not at all. I certainly wouldn't extend it
past 30 days, but if you're looking at maybe two weeks, I don't
know that he could remove this volume in two weeks.
MR. PONTE: So three weeks. It's an impossible task to do in
30 days, as it is an impossible task to accomplish in 15 days or
13.
I think what we're trying to do is get some contact with him,
and he's just totally ignoring this board and the code
enforcement operation totally, just in violation.
MS. DUSEK: George, I agree with you on the increase in the
fine, but I am inclined to go along with Peter as far as the time
frame, only because we have to be fair and reasonable when we
give our order, even though we know this person has not
responded whatsoever.
I feel that we can't just say, well, we're going to do this just to
punish you. We have to do it and be reasonable.
MR. PONTE: Well, maybe we can phrase it into two separate
things because given the extensiveness of the complex, and
that's what it is with arched entranceways, buildings, mobile
homes. It's a complex.
We have no idea how many sheds are there now. We think 10,
possibly more. Unless you just went in and bulldozed it, it would
take time to dismantle it and get rid of it. So then what do you say, 60 days?
MS. DUSEK: Well, I think saying within the 30 days is -- I still
don't think he can accomplish it in 30 days.
MR. PONTE: I don't either.
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March 22, 2001
MS. DUSEK: But I think to shorten that time frame is not the
approach the board should take. That's like -- I don't know if the
word "punishing" is right, but it's just not a responsible thing.
MS. TAYLOR: I agree with George. It's an attention getter,
and that's what he needs.
MS. DUSEK: Well, I think the fine will reflect that, and that
short period of time of 30 days is going to be impossible for him
to remove the stuff.
MS. TAYLOR: Well, then, we need to up that fine.
MS, DUSEK: Oh, absolutely. I'm in total agreement with that.
MR. LEHMANN: And that's what George had recommended.
My position on this thing is, this case has gone on since 1999.
Obviously, he has no interest in complying with the county on
this thing. We need to make it short and sweet and say, here's
what's going to happen.
I think it's fair to give him 30 days, he's got plenty of time for
options. This has been sitting here for two years. But once that
31st day hits, then a serious fine to get his attention needs to be
in place, and that's my feeling about it. I think that $50 is
ridiculous, and I commend staff with constantly trying to work
with the respondents, but this respondent obviously doesn't want
to work with staff.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: One thing I think you need to keep in
mind, please. We looked at other cases, and because the time
was 11 months, 13 months, whatever, the staff tried diligently to
get people to comply, and they totally refused.
I understand this needs some drastic action, but in this case,
there was a one-year period where staff didn't even have
conversations or any contact with this person. So in essence,
their contact is really limited to about a four- or five-month
period.
Can he get permits in 30 days if he had to for this property?
Even if he came in today, could he get it done in 30 days? MS. TAYLOR: Permits for what?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: His structures or whatever.
MS. TAYLOR: They aren't permittable.
MS. ARNOLD: He's got multiple structures, and you would
have to define for the planning department how those structures
are going to be used, and we had indicated that it's about five
acres, and the zoning on it is state, so he would be permitted to
Page 32
March 22~ 2001
have technically two primary structures with accessory
structures under the zoning district provision, and the possibility
is there~ if he submitted it today, that it could be reviewed by the
county and action been taken by the county within 30 days.
MS. DUSEK.' Does he have to have a site improvement plan
with that?
MS. ARNOLD: No.
MR. LEHMANN: I think in reality, the structures, from what
I've seen -- it's very similar to the gentleman just trying to build a
camp out there.
He would have to do, I would think, some major renovations to
the structure to make them permittable, but that's not to say
that this board should say that we preclude him from that option.
I think we need to keep our --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's why I was curious about the 30
days. If we limit him to try and obtain permits and/or do
whatever, is something that's impossible. That's my only
question.
MS. DUSEK.' You're thinking that we need to give a longer
time?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I would hate to tell somebody they have
to do something in 30 days, and then even if they actually start
doing it, it's just something that can't be done due to the system.
But I am interested in what the board wants to do.
MR. PONTE: Can we carefully craft the finding so that it's in
two parts? So that he would have to apply for a permit within X
days and/or if not, remove the structures? Different time frame
with a separate fine or an increased fine.
MS. ARNOLD: Let me just add some information. The
investigator just advised me that this is in the southern Estates
area, and it's the area that the state is attempting to purchase
and restore back to its natural state.
The county isn't precluding issuance of permits in that area,
but there's the possibility that the state is attempting to get
ahold of these property owners, as well, to obtain that property.
And the likelihood is there that, you know, he probably
wouldn't get permits or try to obtain permits for it because he's
going to turn it over to the state.
MR. LEHMANN: Again, we are making an -- what you are
asking us to do is consider a subjective issue.
Page 33
March 22, 2001
MS. ARNOLD: It is subjective. ! just wanted to advise you
that it is in a buyout area, so to speak, and to worry about
whether or not permits are going to be obtained, it's probably out
of our control.
So, you know, you probably should be concentrating on
whether or not there's a violation and to rectify the problem
within a certain time frame.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: But the certain time frame is, we should
be reasonable, that if he could obtain permits, which is what
we're interested in, is 30 days enough time?
MS. ARNOLD: And I have indicated, yes, if he submitted it
today, he could get permits from the county.
MS. TAYLOR: I am for the 30 days, no longer. No longer, and
a big fine.
MS. SAUNDERS: I agree. Quite frankly, I would like the
county to get a lien on the property as rapidly as we could and
make something happen, if there is going to be a sale.
I don't see anything changing in this, and though I tend to try
and give the benefit of the doubt as much as possible to the
property owner, in this case, I'm not inclined to be very lenient at
all.
Does a fine of $200 a day seem appropriate?
MR. PONTE: It does, but at the same time, we're saying that
we seem to have a limit of $250 and that's -- we use that when
there's safety involved, and there isn't any real safety features
here.
MS. SAUNDERS: Well, George, I see some safety violations.
They're not -- they're implied in here, in that if this is being used
as a camp and it's in an area where there's a drought, and people
are camping out there, living out there in wooden structures that
are not permitted, I see a fire problem.
MR. PONTE: I don't think there's any proof that it's used as a
camp. There's no activity. It's overgrown. Maybe it was used as
a camp at one time long ago, there is that archway entranceway,
but I don't think it's a camp now.
MS. TAYLOR: Yes, but let me tell you, people go out, way out
in there, way out in there, for drugs or whatever, and there's
always activity way out in there. You wouldn't think so, but
there is. Someone's always looking for a place just like this.
Truly.
Page 34
March 22, 2001
MR. LEHMANN.' I think a fine of $200 a day will very quickly
exceed the value of the land, and we get into an upside down
lien.
MR. PONTE: It's five acres. What would that --
MR. LEHMANN: Out there, an acre could run 3 or $4,000, may
be $10,000.
MS. TAYLOR: I just bought two and three-quarters, cost me
$29,000, unimproved.
MR. PONTE: Which might be the attention getting device. If
the state's going to take it over and he knows the sale is
assured, he certainly will not want to lose the profits from the
sale.
MR. LEHMANN: Myself, I was looking at a fine of $100 as
opposed to $200.
MS. DUSEK: And I was thinking of $150.
MR. PONTE: And I was thinking of $100. Glad we have
consensus.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I think we have consensus on 30 days.
Now let's -- can we get a consensus -- why doesn't somebody
make a motion about the 30 days and put a number to it, and
let's see how that flies.
MR. PONTE: Bobble, you're good at that. Say 150 and 30
days.
MS. DUSEK: Well, I recommend that the CEB find the
respondent in violation, order respondent to pay all prosecution
costs, and I guess we're going to put the "obtain permits." Did
we decide to do that? Obtain permits or remove structures and
litter within 30 days, which would be April 21, 2001, or county
staff to remove litter, assess all costs to respondent, and a fine
of $125 be imposed for each and every day violation structures
remain.
As I make this, I -- are we -- did we want to have the staff go
out there and do anything? I'm not so sure that should be in
there.
MR. PONTE: I agree with you.
MS. DUSEK: All right. I'm removing that from --
MR. LEHMANN: Why would you not want staff to go out there?
MR. PONTE: I think it's an overly costly operation that doesn't
make any difference one way or the other.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: They are only going to take the litter
Page 35
March 22, 2001
down. They aren't going to take the buildings down, so picking
up some buckets and --
MR. PONTE: Refrigerators.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I think that's an undue expense,
personally.
MS. DUSEK: I do, too. I remove that from my motion.
MS. TAYLOR: I don't think the fine is high enough. $125 is
not high enough.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, we have -- the motion is 30 days
and $125. Is there a second? Let's do it this way, first of all.
MR. PONTE: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL-' We have a motion and a second. Any
further discussion?
MS. SAUNDERS: I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman. Maybe we could
just go down the row and see what each person thinks the fine
is, instead of voting on the motion and then coming back and
forth.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, we have a motion and a second on
the table, so we have to do something.
MR. LEHMANN: So we have to vote on this rule.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor signify by saying "aye."
Since I'm doing this by ear, let's have a show of hands,
please. One, two, three, four, five. Motion carries.
All those opposed? One, two. Motion carries five to two, 30
days and $125, plus costs.
That closes the public hearings. There's nothing under new
business. There's nothing under old business.
Reports? Oh, I'm sorry.
MR. PONTE: I just --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Do you have something under old
business?
MR. PONTE: Just a point of clarification. Jean was talking
about the possibility of two meetings in the month of April. The
meeting that's on the agenda, our next meeting, is April 26.
MS. ARNOLD: The room is not available in April other than
that date.
MR. PONTE: Okay. So we've just got one.
MS. RAWSON: My error. I don't have my calendar in front of
me.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Just one meeting next month.
Page 36
March 22, 2001
MS. SAUNDERS: Could I get the dates for the meetings in
May? Do you have that handy?
MS. ARNOLD: I can call you.
MS. SAUNDERS: Okay. I didn't keep notice of all the things
going on.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Reports. We have one report, a
foreclosure report.
MS. CHADWELL: Good morning. My name is Ellen Chadwell.
This is the update from last month, and I understand that you
received that, and you have had an opportunity to review that.
We currently have about 19 cases in our office pending. You
can see from the top sheet, which is kind of like a statistical
total of the cases, we have resolved two more cases since last
month.
We've got six cases currently in foreclosure, and the others --
there are a handful of cases that we will more than likely send to
the collection agency for collection.
Michelle and I have talked about that. You received a copy of
the memo of last month regarding our ability to use a collection
agency service for purposes of collecting those cases that don't
warrant foreclosure proceedings, and at this point, I'm
comfortable with the fact that we can go that route.
We do need to prepare a resolution and present that to the
Board of County Commissioners and have them adopt a
resolution authorizing us to send the cases to a collection
agency and allowing them 30 percent of those fine amounts to go
as payment to the agency.
Hopefully, we will have that in some form that can be
presented to the board next month. I won't make any guarantees
or promises in that regard, but that's kind of our goal.
We presented -- I did a memo on the satisfaction of code
enforcement claims last month, as well. it was presented to you
by Michelle, and that's simply an opinion, that the satisfactions
of lien need to be executed by the Board of County
Commissioners.
That's clearly set out in the statute, and when these cases do
resolve themselves, we have to -- in a timely fashion, execute
and record satisfaction of liens.
At this point, if there's any questions you all might have about
the progress on any of these matters, I will be happy to try to
Page 37
March 22, 2001
answer those.
You have probably -- if you have been reading the paper at all
this month, you know we have been busy with Mr. Parks and are
making some progress in that regard.
So at that point, I guess I will just open up for any questions
you all have.
MS. GODFREY-LINT: On Mr. Parks, are you trying to contact
the nephew, or is the nephew in the military or --
MS. CHADWELL: We have determined that he is not. He has
been discharged from the military. I did have a conversation
with his father. That was all information that came from the
deposition, and we have sent off another request to the U.S.
Navy so that they can confirm officially that he's not in the
service any longer, and we are hopeful or optimistic that we will
get some personal service on him, where he's currently living.
Beyond that, I don't really want to comment.
MS. GODFREY-LINT: On the Parks matter, once you find the
nephew, will you attempt to really expedite this case because of
the problems he's causing for the neighbors?
MS. CHADWELL: Yes. There won't be anything to keep us
from going to a judgment at that point, assuming they -- defenses
are raised or what have you, but that's been the big major
stumbling block, so I'm hopeful we can certainly expedite it at
that point.
MS. GODFREY-LINT: He lives a few miles from me, and he's
really a character and a half.
MS. CHADWELL: In addition, I guess Ms. Rawson has
discussed with you some of the changes we're working on for the
rules, in particular, motions to reduce.
I understood that this board was interested in advice from
counsel as to how they can better enforce these violations and
take action, so that was one of the directions we took from this
board and one of the actions we've been working on the last
couple of months.
MS. DUSEK: I want to thank you for this report. I think it's
very thorough. It's very easy to understand, and I truly do
appreciate it.
MS. GODFREY-LINT: Yes, thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yeah, it's a good report. I have a
question. Maybe I'll ask Ms. Rawson, since -- when the -- after
Page 38
March 22, 2001
we issue an order and it's -- we say to do something, and what
the -- I guess the county is stating on a couple of these is,
abandon any action.
What does that do to the order? I mean, how do you -- does
not the order just keep running? How do you abandon it?
MS. RAWSON: You abandon it because you are not following
a foreclosure, and you're not because the amount of fine is not
worth turning it over to collection.
That means the county office, as I understand it, is
abandoning their action to collect, which they have the right to
do.
It doesn't mean that the order is still not out there and that
the lien is not still on the property. You know, someday, if they
sell it, we still might collect~ but as I understand from Ms.
Chadwell, that means that the county attorney is abandoning the
efforts to collect because it's not worth it. MS. CHADWELL: That's correct.
I would like to take this opportunity and say that I think, and I
think that Michelle will agree with me~ that although it seems a
little repetitious at times, we continue to send notices out to the
property owners. I think that some of those letters really have
had an effect, that in con]unction with the obvious intent of this
board to enforce its orders, and I think that's fairly evident in the
community at this point, that you all are aggressively pursuing
foreclosure where appropriate and taking these matters
seriously.
So I think that we're seeing some real positive -- I know that I
haven't had any more cases come to my office, so I take that as
a positive.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: One question. I think it's Stevenson. Is
that -- you say, is still waiting directions regarding foreclosure.
Is that something you need from this board, or is that something
the county's doing?
MS. CHADWELL: That's something that I'm waiting for from
Michelle. We need to have some discussions about that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL.' Good report~ thank you.
MS. CHADWELL: It might be a little long, but I just keep
adding on to it. So that kind of gives you a chronological history.
If there aren't any more questions, thank you very much.
I would like to add one thing. I'm supposed to do quarterly
Page 39
March 22, 2001
reports, and there's been some confusion, since I started kind of
off the calendar quarter. So I'd like to schedule those reports in
January, April, July, and October, the typical calendar quarters.
So I'll be appearing again next month. It will be brief, I'm sure.
MR. PONTE: Makes sense to me.
MS. CHADWELL: So we are on that cycle now.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL.' Comments?
Next meeting is April 26, 2001, 9 o'clock, in this room.
MS. GODFREY-LINT: You think it will be all day?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I have no way of knowing until we see
how many cases might be brought before us, and as with today~
we had five cases and two got abated, so --
MS. GODFREY-LINT: The reason I asked is, we've gone to two
meetings a month, and I was just wondering if perhaps we
should.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The two meetings a month -- I think it
would be in the board's best interest that on the two meetings a
month that Michelle might get with the chair and say, we have X
cases, rather than just bring the board here for one or two cases
or three and then have another meeting where we have three
cases.
It's kind of a scheduling problem for people in their personal
lives, I'm sure.
MS. DUSEK: I personally don't mind staying here one day, all
day, to accomplish what we need to accomplish.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
MS. SAUNDERS: So moved.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Second?
MR. PONTE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor? Thank you.
MS. ARNOLD: ! would just ask that you all keep your folders.
We're going to just send you a packet.
MS. TAYLOR: You want me to keep all this stuff?
MS. ARNOLD: You just keep them.
There being no further business for the good of the County,
the meeting was adiourned by order of the Chair at 10:45 a.m.
Page 40
March 22, 2001
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD OF
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
CLIFFORD FLEGAL, CHAIRMAN
These minutes approved by the Board on
presented or as corrected
, as
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY TONI SHEARER
Page 41