Forest Lakes MSTU Minutes 09/26/2013 (Emergency)FOREST ROADWAY and DRAINAGE M.S.T.U.
LAKES ADVISORY COMMMTEE
3299 East Tamiami Trail - Suite 103
Naples, FL 34112
SEPTEMBER 269 2013
MINUTES: EMERGENCY MEETING
I. CALL TO ORDER:
Chairman Robert Jones called the meeting to order at 9:30 AM.
A quorum was established; three voting members were present.
H. ATTENDANCE:
Members: Robert Jones — Chairman
George Fogg — Vice Chair, Richard Barry
County: Darryl Richard — MSTU Project Manager
Harry Sells — Project Manager
Michelle Arnold — Director, ATM
Others: Jim Can, PE — Agnoli, Barber & Brundage
(JuriStaff— Anne Iacuzzo)
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Vice Chairman Fogg noted there was only one item on the Agenda. He stated the
purpose of the meeting was to discuss the flooding problem and find ways to mitigate it.
IV. ROADWAY FLOODING:
Michelle Arnold presented a brief summary of the situation:
• There had been significant flooding in the Forest Lakes community which made
driving extremely difficult.
• She referenced a map (visual aid) which depicted the areas of concern.
• Forest Lakes Boulevard, Woodshire Lane, and Turtle Lakes Drive were the most
severely affected roadways.
• The focus is to solve the water problem so that in the event of more rain, the
condition does not continue.
Background.
• Forest Lakes is a private development. The roadways and the drainage system
are maintained privately. The County does not maintain the roadways or the
drainage system.
September 26, 2013
• The Forest Lakes MSTU was created to and, over the years, has collected funds
specifically ear- marked for improvements to the drainage system and other
improvements within the community.
• The out -falls to the south is a public system outside Forest Lake and is currently
functioning properly.
• The grounds are fully saturated due to this year's very heavy rains. Last year's
rainfall has been exceeded and the Stormwater systems have been challenged.
(Kenneth Bloom arrived at 9:35 AM.)
• A County crew surveyed the area to compare the elevations of the lakes within the
community.
• There is a two -foot difference in elevation between Lake # 18 (west side of map),
Lake #14 (near Woodshire Lane), and Lake #15 (to the south).
• It is evident that the drainage swales are not adequately moving water from the
north to the south of the community.
• A great deal of vegetative growth has occurred within the swales and must be
removed because it is contributing to the drainage problem. The overgrowth has
prevented the drainage system from functioning the way it was designed to do.
• Lake #18 and Lake #14 appear to be at capacity and unable to collect more water.
• Lake #15 appears to have a more capacity and could collect a limited amount of
water.
• The County's road maintenance staff and engineers have met to discuss potential
solutions to moving the water:
• One option is to pump water from Lake # 18 and Lake # 14 down to
Lake #15 in the south to free up more capacity for the two northern lakes.
• Another option is to pump water from Lake #14 to Pine Ridge Road.
• If the roadway became impassable again due to a future storm, the County
would pump directly from the road to Pine Ridge Road.
• Another option is to remove the vegetation from the swales.
• The options proposed are the most immediate solutions
Ms. Arnold stated she would welcome discussion of the proposed options with the
members of the community. She noted the County has received a quote regarding the
option to pump water from the northern lake out to Pine Ridge Road. The County is also
soliciting quotes to remove the vegetation from the swales but has not yet received a
response from the vendor.
Discussion:
Vice Chairman George Fogg asked Mr. Carr for his input.
Jim Carr replied that he and Darryl Richard inspected the site on Friday, September 2e,
and observed the water in the streets. He stated the main issue is the connectivity from the
lakes in the north to the lake in the south. The swales located at the edge of the golf course
between the fairway and the backyards are overgrown with grasses ranging from one to
two feel high. The growth impedes the flow of water and it must be maintained.
September 26, 2013
Vice Chairman Fogg stated he has kept records of the amount of rainfall received since
1992. He noted 50% more rain has fallen this year with the 24 -year average rainfall at
64 inches per year. To date, 95.25 inches has been received.
He continued drainage has been a problem in the past. The extra rain has overloaded the
system and it does not have the capacity necessary to remove the water. He appreciated
the suggestions from Staff.
Kenneth Bloom asked if water was moved to Lake #15 where would it go in the event of
another heavy storm.
Darryl Richard confirmed Lake #15 connects directly to the Gordon River outflow.
Mr. Bloom asked if the height of the outflow could be lowered to handle more water.
Mr. Richard responded the outflow was not an issue.
Mr. Bloom agreed moving the water was a good short-term solution for the remainder of
this year's rainy season. He asked what options were proposed as long term solutions for
the future. He stated even during a normal rainstorm, the streets will be flooded to a
certain degree. This year's rainfall is over and above a "normal" rainfall. He asked what
can be done to keep this situation from occurring in the future.
Michelle Arnold stated it was the County's intention to discuss options and study it
further with the engineers. Long -term options will be discussed at the next Forest Lakes
MSTU meeting.
Kenneth Bloom directed a question to Mr. Carr asking for his opinion concerning what is
the best short-term solution, i.e, pumping water out to Pine Ridge Road or moving water
from the northern lakes to the southern lake.
Jim Carr responded pumping the water to the southern lake makes the most sense in the
short term. He stated pumping to Pine Ridge is also a viable option.
Mr. Bloom asked who was responsible for maintaining the swales.
Michelle Arnold replied it was the responsibility of the Quail Run golf course.
Vice Chairman Fogg concurred the system was designed for water to run down the golf
course. The primary function is to move the water down the drainage swales. The golf
course re- graded the swales. He stated the MSTU should work in tandem with the golf
course to keep the swales open. He further stated the golf course has not "relinquished"
its responsibility to clear the swales — there has been too much water to allow removal of
any vegetation. The golf course does not have the proper equipment.
Vice Chairman Fogg moved to approve allowing the MSTU to enter into an Emergency
Contract with a vendor to open the swales on the golf course and keep them open
during the rainy season. Kenneth Bloom offered a Second in support of the motion.
Discussion of the Motion:
Vice Chairman Fogg stated he thought cleaning out the swales would be less costly than
bringing in pumps to move the water and could be accomplished more quickly.
Richard Barry agreed the swales must be cut down and cleaned out. He stated the 7t , 8�'
and 9"' holes were flooded within one hour of the rain beginning.
September 26, 2013
(Kevin McKyton arrived at 10.00 AM.)
Vice Chairman Fogg noted both Star and the engineer have suggested the option.
(It was noted that Mr. McKyton had arrived and the Board was at full membership.)
mice Chairman Fogg repeated his motion: To approve allowing the MSTU to enter into
an Emergency Contract with a vendor (or contractor) to open the swales and keep them
open on the golf course
Kenneth Bloom stated he wanted to address the issue at the next meeting. He suggested
developing a continual maintenance program.
Mr. Bloom asked Michelle Arnold to contact the County's Budget Department on behalf
of the MSTU and ask that the monies held in the Reserve Fund are to be released to pay
for the vegetation removal. It is an emergency situation and the funds are necessary. He
further stated the members cannot vote to approve the motion until they know if the funds
are available.
Kevin McKyton agreed the swales appear to be the major problem. He asked if there
were other issues in addition to the swales.
Jim Carr confirmed maintaining the swales and keeping the drainage open would be
helpful. There is also a problem with the elevation.
Mr. McKyton noted there has been too much standing water for the swales to be the only
problem.
Darryl Richard explained the vegetation was unusually thick and so overgrown that the
swales were not visible.
Kenneth Bloom asked Michelle Arnold if it would be a problem for her to contact the
Budget Office and she responded, "It will not be a problem for me to ask."
He acknowledged the cost to remove the vegetation was unknown and the current budget
was very tight.
Darryl Richard suggested exploring the budget option at the next MSTU meeting. He
further suggested amending the motion to give Staff the authority to obtain quotes which
will be discussed at the next meeting.
Comment from the Audience:
"You should give us a dollar amount so we can move forward with up to $50,000 or
something ..."
Darryl Richard suggested $40,000 should be sufficient.
Vice Chairman Fogg amended his motion to include the following language: The
contract is not to exceed $40,000. Kenneth Bloom offered a Second in support of the
amended motion.
Vice Chairman Fogg opened the floor to the audience to discuss the motion.
4
September 26, 2013
Michael Brockel, Turtle Lakes resident, asked why it was a problem to release funds
in an emergency situation. Flooding has been a problem for a very long time without a
solution and we need the money now. The emergency solution is to release the monies
needed now to solve the problem. The swales are the immediate problem. They have
been a problem for the entire summer — they have not been maintained. He further stated
he did not understand why there was any hesitation to release the funds or why there is a
ceiling on what it will cost to get the swales cleaned and mowed tomorrow.
Kenneth Bloom asked how quickly could a vendor be brought in to resolve the problem.
Michelle Arnold stated the County's regular landscaping vendors had been contacted but
they did not respond. She stated the County has other vendors under contract and she will
contact them.
Kenneth Bloom asked if $40,000 was a realistic and sufficient.
Michelle Arnold stated the County could get a vendor in to begin pumping water to Pine
Ridge Road.
Darryl Richard explained the earliest would be Monday or Tuesday of next week
because special piping had to be acquired. He stated he thought $40,000 would be
reasonable.
Chairman Jones called for a vote. Motion carried unanimously, 5 - 0.
Vice Chairman Fogg stated the second issue to be discussed was pumping the water.
Michelle Arnold clarified pumping was not "in addition" to cleaning the swales. It was
one or the other.
Darryl Richard stated he received a quote to pump water for seven days from the
northern lake to Pine Ridge Road would cost $40,000. Pumping could not begin until
Monday at the earliest. The pumping could be stretched out to 28 days at a cost of
$53,000.
He further stated there were limits on how far the lake could be drawn down.
Kenneth Bloom noted if it had been last week during the middle of the rain storm, he
would be in favor of pumping. But the rain has lessened and the water will drop. He did
not support the pumping option. The rainy season will be over by October. He thought
cleaning the swales was the better option.
Jim Carr agreed that opening the swales was the better option.
Michelle Arnold noted the goal was to make the roadways passable — not trying to solve
the entire problem on a permanent basis.
Vice Chairman Fogg asked the audience for their suggestions.
Michael Brockel noted the swale behind the Belvedere complex was empty, and
suggested installing a pump in the small lake closest to Belvedere (on the other side of the
fairway) as an immediate solution.
Darryl Richard stated he will inspect the swale with Jim Carr to determine the capacity
of the swale and if the suggestion is feasible.
5
September 26, 2013
Vice Chairman Fogg stated the MSTU will explore long -term solutions. He noted
consultants have made recommendations to improve the drainage which were put into
effect. For today's meeting, the short term solution has been covered.
Kevin McKyton asked if there was a possibility that a control structure had been set at the
wrong elevation. He asked if any of the lake boxes were checked to see if they were
clogged.
Jim Carr stated the conveyance between the northern lakes and the southern lake were
the swales. He was not aware of any connecting pipes.
Richard Barry asked who controlled the gate behind the zoo. He also asked if the weirs
were wide open.
Darryl Richard confirmed the weirs are open and working properly for maximum flow.
Vice Chairman Fogg opened the floor to public comments:
• The water has not receded near Building # 18. Owners of the three end units on the
first floor purchase sand bags to prevent the water from entering their homes.
• Building #12 (near Woodshire Lane and Forest Lakes Blvd.) is a problem.
Mr. Fogg cautioned that Forest Lakes, as a development, sits low. If it were being built
today, a large number of additional retention areas would have been required, the roads
and the buildings would have been set higher. We cannot change how it was built. We
must do what we can in a difficult situation. It has improved over time. The goal is to
make it even better.
Lee Dixon, Manager - Turtle Lakes Golf Colony, distributed a map and photographs of
the area. During the last two heavy rain storms, all of the parking lots were flooded.
The lakes overflowed and came within two to three feet of some of the properties.
Building #7 was the worst — water came up to the flower beds. He has had water in his
house. Turtle Lakes is suffering the lion's share of everything that is going on. The
situation needs to be fixed.
Bill Barnes, president of the Quail Run golf course, stated he will report to his Board
that the golf course should work actively with the MSTU to help find a long -term solution.
Kenneth Bloom stated he has lived in Forest Lakes for the past 20 years. The Board
and Staff are doing the best job possible to make the community water -free but Forest
Lakes will always hold water from time to time. He stated the police will tell you, "if you
can't see the road, don't drive on the road." The MSTU cannot fix all the problems.
Vice Chairman Fogg thanked the audience for its attendance and participation.
There being no further business for the good of the County, the Meeting was adjourned by
order of the Chairman at 10:37 AM.
6
NEXT MEETING: OCTOBER 1, 2013 AT 10:00 AM
FOREST LAKES CONDO ASSOCIATION CLUBHOUSE
1058 FOREST LAKE DRIVE, NAPLES, FL 34105
FOREST LAKES ROADWAY AND
DRAINAGE MSTU ADVISORY
COMMITTEE
Robert Jones, Chairma
The Minutes were approved by the Commi ee Chair on j' 2013
"as submitted" [_1, OR "as amended"