ATV Park Ad Hoc Minutes 10/01/2013 A/
Collier er Coo- n.t, <�4. s A-,
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ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting S,
Growth Management Division
Main Conference Room \/�„
2885 South Horseshoe Drive
Naples, Fla.
October 1,2013
5:30 p.m.
I. Call to Order/Roll Call
The ATV Park Ad Hoc meeting was called to order at approximately 5:34 p.m. by Chairman Joe
Pelletier. A quorum was present. Those in attendance were as follows:
ATV Park Committee:
Joe Pelletier, Chairman
Jeff Close, Member
Ed Lukosavich, Alternate Member
Mario Menendez, Member
Greg Westgate,Alternate Member
Not Present:
Felix Garcia, Vice Chairman—excused
Jonathan Harraden, Member- excused
William Combs, Member- excused
Barbra Pinx, Member
Staff:
Nick Casalanguida, Growth Management Division (GMD) Administrator
Barry Williams, Parks &Recreation Dept. Director
Connie Deane, GMD Community Liaison &ATV Park Committee Staff Liaison
Toni Mott, Collier County Manager Property Acquisition
Valerie Kullick, GMD - Minutes
II. Adoption of Agenda
Mario Menendez moved to adopt the agenda and Jeff Close seconded.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
III. Adoption of Minutes from September 3, 2013 meeting
Chairman Joe Pelletier requested a motion to approve the 9/3/13 minutes.
Connie Deane mentioned that she made some small formatting changes after providing the
minutes to the committee members.
Mario Menendez made a motion to approve the minutes with changes discussed and Jeff
Close seconded the motion.
ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Oct. 1,2013/Page 2 of 8
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
IV. Old Business
A. Provide page 2 of minutes from July 17, 2013 meeting showing correction approved by the
committee
Chairman Pelletier passed out page 2 of the minutes and Connie explained that it just
showed a rephrasing of a sentence that Barbra Pinx had pointed out at the last meeting.
Extra copies were available for members of the public.
B. Discussion regarding Responses from Letters of Interest/Request for Information
Need to determine if want to move toward Request for Proposal and take to Board of County,
Commissioners (BCC) and/or determine if there are other items the committee wants to
recommend to the BCC
1. Received comments from Jonathan Harradan who is unable to attend this evening
due to work
2. Received comments from Greg Westgate and Mario Menendez who are both
expected to be at the meeting
Jon Harradan's comments were provided to the committee members. The written statement he
provided is below.
As was brought up in the last discussion every park offers something different but together they cover
all interests in the off-roading community. This money was acquired from a place that let every type of
off road recreation participate not just ATV's or motorcross type bikes.
(Option#3) I would like to move the remaining settlement money from the general fund and place it
into two accounts. Account one would be an interest bearing account to help perpetuate the funds into
the future. Account two would have the ability to have funds drawn off it for the following proposal-
I would then like to see a program with the following established and planned Off-road vehicle parks
for 1 year. Devils Garden,Tracks and Trails,Lazy Springs and the Red Neck Yacht Club. These
parks have the choice to participate or not. If other parks become established they too will be eligible to
participate.
My thought is a 50%entry fee subsidization. The county and the parks will have to come to an
agreement on the time frame to be paid. It is unreasonable to expect the county to write four checks
every week. Every guest over the age of 16 years old would be required to show proof of Collier
County residency with a valid ID or driver's license. I feel that for 1 year the benefit of someone
fraudulently bringing children to the park that do not live in Collier County and getting the subsidization
far outweighs the cost when considering the potential to encourage new riders in our area and chosen
form of recreation. There will need to be a system in place to account for the number of visitors to
these parks to prevent anyone from accusing them of any impropriety.
I would like this program to be revisited 11 months from the date of inception. At that time the
participation statistics from each of the parks should be made available for review. This way an
educated decision could be made on how or if to continue this program and speculate the longevity of
the funds made available.
I have polled as many people in the ORV community as possible. It is my recommendation to not
deposit any large sums of money to any one park. The remaining money should be used to encourage
the possibility of an off-road park within the borders of Collier County. The majority of responses were
to pursue Picayune Strand and encourage the development of an ORV trail system.
RNYC Prices are:
ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Oct. 1,2013/Page 3 of 8
$60 For the entire weekend of camping and mudding. One day"Sunday Funday passes"are$30 cash
only at the gate,and are good for Sunday only.
Kids 12 and under get in for free!
Devils garden-from 2013
Adult for Fri and Sat- $40.00 each
Adult for Sunday Only- $30.00 each
Children 6-12 for Fri and Sat- $30.00 each
Children 6-12 for Sunday Only- $15.00 each
Children 5 and under- FREE
Active Military with proof- FREE
Retired Military with proof- 1/2 OFF
Lazy Springs-
$10 for the day,per person
$10 per off road vehicle
$10 per boat or jet ski
Kids 9 and under are free
Florida Tracks and Trails-
Pricing to be decided.
Greg Westgate wanted to clarify that there was a cutoff date for accepting Letters of Interest
and wanted to verify that we were no longer accepting Letters of Interest. Connie confirmed
that we have not received any more responses. Greg also inquired as to whether or not we
could review the details of the packets/letters that were received. Chairman Pelletier said that
we could do that. He also said he wanted to bring up the matter of continuing to search for land
in Collier County. He said that we have spent approximately $26,000.00 searching for land in
Collier with the help of Hans Russell, and did not have much luck. Joe said he went back
through all his old records and meeting minutes and found several statements made by Collier
County officials that they were not interested in staffing, insuring and running an ATV park.
Joe read a quote made by Mr. Williams that stated something to that effect. Nick Casalanguida
said that was a true statement. Joe said at this point, the ATV Committee got permission from
the BCC to start looking outside the county. This lead to the Letters of Interest from several
parks (none in Collier). Joe said he feels a little disturbed now that all of a sudden, some of the
committee members are talking about a "voucher system" to go to various parks. Joe thought
that the purpose of the committee was to find an ATV site, not to establish a voucher system.
He thinks it's a bad idea to use the money in this way because when it's gone, that's it. He
feels that using a voucher system and continuing to look in Collier is a waste of time.
Nick Casalanguida said that he thinks the committee has a lot of choices. One choice is if the
committee feels they can't find any property, they can wait. Or, perhaps the committee may
decide to buy a smaller parcel of land, if that is all they decide they can afford. Another option
is to offer to partner with a park or parks. We could do some sort of voucher system. Another
choice is going out and developing a Request for Proposal. Those are all available options.
Nick said that the BCC gave them permission to look outside the county, develop some
options, see what the Letter of Interest generated and then come back to them with some
recommendations. The bottom line is that the BCC will take their comments under advisement
and still make their own decision. Nick said that what they're here to do tonight is lay out
some options, prioritize the group of options and if it's not unanimous, that's okay. That's the
message you'll carry to the BCC. Joe asked if it was okay to go to the BCC with a split
decision. Nick said yes, you just tell them a couple people felt one way, a couple felt another.
The BCC may ask staff what they think should be done with the money at this time.
ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Oct. 1,2013/Page 4 of 8
Barry Williams suggested we write the ideas down on a white board as the committee comes up
with them. He said he had also heard the committee talk about putting the money in an
interesting bearing account and this is something they may want to address tonight.
Greg Westgate said that he would like to come to a decision and make a recommendation —
ASAP. Nick asked if he meant that he'd like to put a RFP out there, saying we're looking for
something within certain parameters, to do something permanent with the county. Invest in
some sort of third party park environment, whether it's Mr. Wigham in Collier, FTT in
Charlotte, Redneck Yacht Club, or any others. Greg said he thought it would be a waste of
time for some parks to respond, as they don't fit the parameters of what the committee wants.
Nick responded that we need to choose the parameters, let people apply, then rank the choices
and perhaps start negotiations. Joe Pelletier mentioned that he remembered one meeting where
the committee discussed how they would get the most "bang for the buck" — the most
amenities, the security, family friendly, a place with directional trails, etc. In his opinion, a
voucher program wouldn't fit this ideal. The money would be going to places that don't fit in
these parameters. He's also concerned with the amount of time the committee has taken
(going on two years) and the falling attendance at the committee meetings.
Nick asked that we go around the table and everyone can express their opinion and thoughts.
Mario started by stating that the idea of a voucher system had been his. He came up with this
idea because he doesn't think there is anything out there that fits the parameters that the
committee had been looking for. He thinks this would be a quick solution; with it anyone in the
county could go out to any park and ride. Then the county could reimburse them half (or
whatever they decide), and people could ride. He doesn't think it matters where the park is
located. Mario's recommendation is to put some money in an account right now, that would
allow riders to start riding now (wherever they want), and continue looking for property or at
partnering up with one (or more) of the parks. Mario also recommends moving the money
from the general fund into its own account, where it is less likely to be used for other purposes.
Greg Westgate made a motion to move the money into a segregated account by itself. Ed
Lukosavich seconded the motion.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Nick said that this is a recommendation that we will bring to the BCC and they will make the
decision.
Jeff Close asked Joe what his opinion was. Joe said that he honestly likes Florida Tracks and
Trails (FTT). He appreciates that Terry Cooke has been to every meeting and done his due
diligence. He thinks the plans for FTT offer everything the committee has been looking for.
Nick stopped Joe and pointed out that they can't pick a vendor at this meeting. You can
express your opinion about who you like and the course of action you would like to take. Joe's
recommendation is that Collier County partner up with a group or park. Joe would also like to
start this process by issuing an RFP. Nick said that the way to do that is to advertise for various
interested parties to provide the committee with specifications including: what they can offer;
hours of operation; etc. Nick said that it will be a third party that reviews the specs (maybe a
staff member, an attorney, the Purchasing Dept., etc.) and they will rate them, based on what
they have to offer. One entity would be selected, and then negotiations with that one entity
would begin.
ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Oct. 1,2013/Page 5 of 8
Jeff Close agreed with Joe. He likes the idea of partnering up with a specific park. Joe doesn't
mind the voucher idea. However, the problem he does have with the voucher system is that
sooner or later the account is going to run out of money.
Ed Lukosavich likes the voucher program. He likes the idea of starting to be able to ride right
away. He pointed out that FTT is not open yet and he wants a place to go now. He thinks the
park that the county works with should offer everything that ATV riders want in terms of types
of vehicles including: dirt bikes; 4-wheelers; etc.
Greg Westgate thinks they should choose one entity and focus and build on that. There
followed some discussion regarding different parks in the state, what types of vehicles they
allowed, and how far people were willing to travel in order to ride. Joe questioned the fact that
perhaps there were parks out there that would not want to accept the vouchers offered. Mario
agreed and suggested some type of reimbursement from the county after the fact, directly to the
Collier County resident.
During the discussions, Barry Williams had been writing the various ideas and suggestions
down on the white board. He suggested looking at the list and prioritizing by rank, what the
group liked best. Mario said they had already agreed on one idea (segregating the money), so
thought they should look over the others options and see who likes what. Barry listed what was
on the board.
1. Issue an RFP for partnering with one park that exists or is shovel ready.
2. Issue an RFP for a voucher system for all identified parks that responded to the RFI.
3. Seek property inside and outside of Collier County.
4. Place the balance of the money from the settlement with the water management district in
an interest bearing account (which the committee agreed to earlier in the meeting) but use
the interest to pay for a percentage of reimbursement to riders.
5. Do something similar to a voucher system for a specified period of time, perhaps six
months, and continue to look for a permanent spot by conducting an RFP.
The committee talked about these options. Ed suggested using a voucher system until the RFP
for a partnership was processed. All seemed amenable to that idea. Nick feels that the
committee needs to develop formal criteria for an RFP. He discussed how the selection process
may work. He thinks there would be an impartial selection committee. They would rate the
submittals based on criteria probably developed by the committee. The criteria may include
specifics such as hours of operation, access, acreage, facilities, etc. They may select the best
vendor and go into negotiations for price. Each item offered by each park may score a point in
the process, and the higher score the better. Greg Westgate listed some of the points that he
thinks are important to the riders such as an organized trail system, wooded area, 800 to 1,000
acres, various tracks, open and accessible to the public more than seven-to-10 weekends per
year (preferably open all year round), and with camping on-site. Nick thought these were all
acceptable criteria for the list. He said that the more criteria a participant met, the higher they
would score. He explained that you have to make the criteria list somewhat open and
reasonable, so that the RFP process is open to all who may be able or willing to try and meet
the criteria.
Nick asked if they could wrap up one part of the discussion regarding the temporary voucher
system. He wanted to know if what he was hearing was that they wanted to do a limited
voucher system and go through with trying to prioritize a park in which to invest. Greg asked
what the voucher system would/could pay for. Nick said it might be a good idea to ask to
ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Oct. 1,2013/Page 6 of 8
direct county staff to work with the County Attorney's Office (CAO) to explore a voucher
system; determining what it would take and what the parameters might be. That would be part
one of a motion. Nick also asked if they wanted to put a limit on it. Mario thought they should
put a limit on both money and time. Nick suggested not exceeding a certain amount of money
and a 12-month time frame. The committee discussed various aspects of the proposal,
including how much money they may want to use for the voucher system. There were various
amounts discussed from $100,000.00 to $500,000.00 with some disagreement as to an
appropriate amount. Greg said they should just go ahead and make a motion to start a criteria
list for an RFP. Joe feels that the voucher system is a waste of time.
Greg Westgate made a motion to send out a solicitation for plans (RFP) in order to start the
process of ranking them by a provided criteria list. Ed Lukosavich seconded the motion.
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
Nick asked if the there was any interest in the voucher system now. Joe Pelletier restated his
opinion that it would be a waste of time. He feels that by the time it goes to the BCC, then the
details are discussed with the CAO, it will be "a long time", you won't be able to ride
immediately using the system. Nick concurred that it would probably be at least three-to-four
months, but he was not sure.
Ed Lukosavich made a motion to set aside $250,000.00 for a maximum of one year to be
used for a voucher system (details to be determined later). Nick clarified by saying it
would be to direct staff to see if they can develop a voucher system and if it can be done,
to use $250,000.00 for a period of up to one year. Ed agreed with the clarification. Mario
Menendez seconded the motion.
MOTION FAILED 3-2 (with Pelletier,Westgate and Close dissenting).
Nick said that Barry will detail the three motions voted on in the Executive Summary to let
them know that two were unanimous, and inform them that there was interest in the voucher
system and it may be looked at again.
Nick now suggested that a formal list be created for desired criteria. The following items were
added to the list:
• Greater than 800 acres
• Uplands &wooded (less lakes)
• Camping
• Hours of use/open year round
• Distance to Collier(the closer the better)
• Variety of vehicles allowed on site
• Directional Trail System preferred
• Safety provisions provided
• Business plan (for sustainability)
• Facilities (quantity/quality)
• Shovel ready—existing or when available?
ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Oct. 1,2013/Page 7 of 8
Greg Westlake made a motion to adopt the suggested criteria (listed above) discussed in
the meeting. Ed Lukosavich seconded the motion.
MOTION PASSED UNANINMOUSLY.
Connie asked for clarification of items we're moving forward with. Number one is placing
money in an interest bearing account and to use the interest for ATV items only. Number two is
to go out for a solicitation based on the listed criteria; to determine a park that you can bring
back and recommend to the Board. Then you can negotiate with them to get the best deal that
you can for the available money. Nick agreed.
C. Any other old business items anyone wants to discuss?
No comments on old business. We will move on to new business.
V. New Business—any new items the committee wants to discuss?
No new business to discuss.
VI. Public Comment
Scott Perez wanted to comment that he has seen a lot of progress in today's meeting. He has
attended many of these meetings and has watched the step-by-step process over the last couple
of years. He feels like today the committee is almost "there", and has come together with the
help of Nick. He thinks it's going in the right direction.
Dave Kelly with the Red Neck Yacht Club (along with Rob White — operations manager)
wanted to talk to the committee about their concerns about two wheeled bikes. Dave said as he
sat and listened to them develop their criteria list, he feels they (RNYC) meet the majority of
items on the list. He wanted to point out that he put in their RFI that he believes within 60 days
he would be able to provide a place for two wheeled vehicles to ride. He wanted to remind them
that the RNYC is permitted to be open over 200 days per year. He said their proposal is not for
Collier residents to come to RNYC events, but for the RNYC to open up on days just for ATV
and other vehicles to come and enjoy the 900+acres they have. He feels it would be a different
environment compared to their RNYC scheduled events. Greg Westlake said that he and some
friends went out to the RNYC shortly after they opened to ride, and were unable to. He wants to
know why they haven't changed policy yet to accept dirt bikes and have a trail system. Dave
said they have spent the last 1 1/2 years checking into what type of track is required for dirt bikes
and other recreational vehicles. He said they have been researching options during this time
period for airboat tracks, ATV racing circuit, motocross stuff Nick advised them that when
they submit their next proposal, they need to be very careful about what they put in it — do they
have the amenity, is it planned, is it existing?Are you willing to do it? These are the details you
must put in your proposal.
Ivor Wigham asked how many people in Collier County actually ride. Nobody had a firm
answer. Mario said there are several thousand registered ATV's in Collier County — he thinks
over 3,000.
Barry Williams wanted to add a couple of items. He said he thinks it may be a good idea to put
into the Executive Summary the fact that the group has looked at the Miami-Dade Jetport
ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Oct. 1,2013/Page 8 of 8
property and let them know it was ruled out for a variety of reasons — the biggest being the
three-to-five year waiting period. He said it also would be good to mention Mr. Wigham's
informative meeting about his riding school. It just documents the research that the committee
has done. Nick also wanted to remind everyone that the decision is ultimately going to be up to
the BCC, no matter what the committee may recommend.
VII. Next Meeting Date
Nick asked Barry to work with Connie about drafting an Executive Summary and putting it on
the BCC Agenda. They feel like it should be ready for the Tuesday,Nov. 12 BCC meeting. As
chairman, Joe Pelletier will attend the BCC meeting with Nick to present the recommendations.
Nick said they would ask for an afternoon time certain slot. Nick said that once the Executive
Summary is drafted, Connie will send an e-mail with the draft for committee members to look
over and comment on. If they have any questions or input, they need to email ONLY Connie
back. The ATV committee will be meeting after the BCC meeting. The committee is looking at
Tuesday, Dec. 3 as a tentative meeting date. Connie will send out e-mails as time gets closer.
Nick needed a motion to request an afternoon time certain slot for the BCC meeting. Ed
Lukosavich made a motion to ask for a 3 p.m. time certain slot.Jeff Close seconded the
motion.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
VIII. Adjournment
Chairman Pelletier asked for a motion to adjourn the meeting.
Greg Westgate moved to adjourn,Ed Lukosavich seconded the motion.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Having no further business the meeting was officially adjourned at 7:07 p.m.