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ATV Park Ad Hoc Minutes 09/03/2013 Co Cr County #9, , � Rio R�YoFe x'20 ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Me • g �'RTS Growth Management Division Main Conference Room 2885 South Horseshoe Drive J' Naples,Fla. September 3,2013 5:30 p.m. I. Call to Order/Roll Call The ATV Park Ad Hoc meeting was called to order at approximately 5:35 p.m. by Chairman Joe Pelletier. A quorum was present. Those in attendance were as follows: ATV Park Committee: Joe Pelletier, Chairman Mario Menendez, Member Greg Westgate, Alternate Member William Combs, Member Jonathan Harraden, Member Not Present: Felix Garcia, Vice Chairman - excused Jeff Close, Member Ed Lukosavich, Alternate Member—excused Barbra Pinx, Member- excused Toni Mott, Collier County Manager Property Acquisition -excused Staff: Nick Casalanguida, Growth Management Division (GMD)Administrator Barry Williams, Parks &Recreation Dept. Director Connie Deane, GMD Community Liaison&ATV Park Committee Staff Liaison Sue Zimmerman, Collier County Senior Property Acquisition Specialist Valerie Kullick, GMD - Minutes II. Adoption of Agenda William Combs moved to adopt the agenda and Greg Westgate seconded. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. III. Adoption of Minutes from July 17, 2013 meeting Chairman Joe Pelletier requested a motion to approve the 7/17/13 minutes. Connie Deane said that before we have a motion, Barbra Pinx let her know that she had some suggested changes to the minutes. On page two, second paragraph, Barbra suggests that instead of saying "Chairman Pelletier told the committee that he and Greg Westgate have visited the Jetport property and much of it is under water", to change that to "Chairman Pelletier said that he and Greg Westgate have visited the Jetport property, on separate occasions, and much of it is ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Sept.3,2013/Page 2 of 8 under water most of the year". Connie said that if anybody is interested in making a motion to change that, feel free. Chairman Pelletier explained that it just clarifies that they didn't go there together, but at separate times. Greg Westgate made a motion to approve the minutes with changes discussed and William Combs seconded the motion. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. IV. Old Business A. Responses from Letter of Interest/Request for Information provided at last meeting and discussion to be brought up under new business Chairman Pelletier asked members if they had read through the packets that were handed out— responses provided at the last meeting. He said that they will discuss this under new business. B. Any other old business? No comments on old business. We will move on to new business. V. New Business A. Connie was contacted by Ivor Wigham, CEO & Founder, European Rally & Performance Driving School Inc. Tactical All Terrain LLC of Hampton, FL and he would like to talk to the committee. Chairman Pelletier introduced Ivor Wigham. Mr. Wigham introduced himself and his business. He owns European Rally School. He operated out of north central Florida at Keystone Heights Airport for 15 years, until he sold the facility. He has not sold the company. The company has government contracts that train groups such as Navy Seals, Special Ops, etc. They do a lot of ATV and UTV work which require having trails and tracks in place. Since he sold his previous facility, he has decided he wants to start another one, slightly bigger than the one he had before. The old facility was 430 acres with 22 miles for trails and tracks of various types including obstacle courses, water crossings, and winch pits. His company is instructor based, and he said they don't let "free for all" riding occur. The new facility may have an element that allows the public access on Saturdays and Sundays and possibly Fridays. Safety is their paramount goal. They may have to change some tracks in order to accommodate children and beginners, as they usually have very challenging tracks. The old facility was quite extensive, with a large workshop, three wash down pads with jet sprays and full medical equipment on site. Two instructors were trained emergency medical technicians and they had sixteen instructors at the school. They had five fully equipped classrooms and a concession/dining area. Mr. Wigham said he has been looking for property in Collier County and has located two sites. One is 660 acres and the other is 1,800 acres. Nick Casalanguida said that Mr. Wigham gave him a call when he heard about the Letters of Interest. He just thought it was interesting and the committee should hear what Mr. Wigham had to say. ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Sept.3,2013/Page 3 of 8 B. Discussion regarding Responses from Letters of Interest/Request for Information 1. Copies provided to committee members at last meeting for review Nick said that he doesn't think they need to do anything tonight, but that the committee is nearing the point where they'll need to give the Board of County Commissioners (BCC) an update. Since the committee has received responses to the Letter of Interest, it's time to start formulating some ideas of how to proceed. For example, one idea was to allocate a certain amount of money every year but keep looking for something else. Currently, the money received in the settlement is in a general fund—the core money is still restricted, but any interest in that fund goes into a bigger fund—it's not segregated from other funds. That might be one of the recommendations that the committee wants to make to the BCC right now. One-half percent interest is not much ($15,000-30,000 per year) but you may want to request it be transferred to an interest bearing account especially for this purpose. Right now, the interest can be used for whatever the BCC chooses. Chairman Pelletier brought up the fact that he read an article in the Naples Daily News that said the money ($3 million) was not earmarked for an ATV park—that it could be used for whatever the county wanted. Nick said that was correct. Chairman Pelletier was concerned that the longer the committee "dilly-dallied", the higher the chances were that this money could be spent for something else. Nick said that there is always a chance the BCC could say that they've had the money for two to three years and nothing has come out of it, then use the money for something else. But he does not think that that is imminent. However, Nick does think that it would be wise to come up with some sort of recommendation to take to the BCC, whether it's a "pay and go" plan or investing in a park. They're all viable recommendations to put on the table. Nick thought it might be a good idea to poll the committee members and get their thoughts. Chairman Pelletier asked the committee for their ideas. Jonathan Harraden said that after reviewing the material, he liked the pay as you go idea—where Collier residents could go to any park and pay 50% of the admission, and somehow, the county would pay the other 50%. It would need to be determined the amount of times this could occur. He thinks that if the money can generate interest, that may keep the process going for a time. He thinks it may be risky to invest all the money in one park that may"disappear" at any time. Mario Menendez said he had some of the same thoughts. He thinks that we first need to get that money out of the general fund and segregate it. As an example, he said if you would take perhaps $500,000 of the money, pay 50% of admission for a $60 per weekend at a park that could put about 16,000 Collier County residents in a park for one year. This would allow them to go to the park of their choice. He thinks if we recommend taking a certain amount, whether it's $100,000, $200,000, etc., and try this out, it would be a good idea. He suggests then taking the balance of the money and setting it aside and continuing to look for something else. He thinks that this way, Collier County residents will get some benefit from this money. Greg Westgate said that he thinks that Collier County residents will get a benefit either way, whether we choose to go into a private/public partnership or pay as you go. Mario said he was uncomfortable with the thought of giving $500,000 or $1 million to a place and losing control over it. He knows there may be contracts in place for protection, but is not certain of details. Greg thinks that with the county doing its due diligence in regards to partnerships, he would not ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Sept.3,2013/Page 4 of 8 be uncomfortable with a private/public partnership arrangement. Greg doesn't think they should base their recommendations on the chance of a private/public partnership going bad. William Combs wondered about the possibility of the state stepping in and helping with the Picayune Strand. He thinks the county received a bad deal from the South Florida Water Management District (SFWMD), but realizes it's over and done with. He likes Mario's suggestion of putting the money in a fund and allowing it to draw interest; then let Collier County residents use it until we can come up with something in Collier County. Greg asked if there should be a time limit on that. William agreed that there should be—whatever was agreed upon. Jonathan thinks that we need to be in pursuit of our own park— if you let this go on and on, he thinks that eventually the money will be taken. Chairman Pelletier said that after reviewing the documents, he noted that something the committee has always talked about is safety and family friendly places. He said he made some notes on the various parks. One example is that the Redneck Yacht Club (listed as Gone Country Motor Sports) has had 507 incidents reported according to Charlotte County Sheriff's Office records from 2009 to present, for numerous charges. Regarding Lazy Springs Recreation Park—they have 375 acres of land—he thinks 200 acres of lakes and water areas and 175 acres of land for camping, parking, trails, etc. Hours of operations are Saturday and Sunday, sunrise to sunset. They are also open on some Fridays. They were restricted to four wheelers but have recently opened up to two wheelers. His opinion is that it does not represent a long term situation for riders. He thinks it's a viable place right now. In regards to Devils Garden —they do not allow motorcycles in their park. Two wheeled riders are out of luck. They are also not zoned to be open every weekend. They are only open for limited access. Florida Tracks and Trails (FTT) has 1,000 acres with 500 more under contract. They offer more activities than other parks. We don't have an actual proposal from them yet, so we do not have complete details. The design is geared toward family and safety. They are permitted and zoned to be open seven days per week with unlimited events and concerts. No alcohol permitted on tracks and trails and they have the Charlotte County EMS backing them along with letters of recommendation from the Charlotte County Sheriff's Office. Two wheeled motorcycles are allowed and hours of operation will be from dawn to dusk. Chairman Pelletier's opinion is that they wanted a family friendly place with medical care backing. He understands Mario's concerns about putting money into a private park, but feels that there are probably some ways (through lawyers) that the money could be somewhat protected in case of park closures. He asked Terry Cooke from FTT about protection of money. Terry said he had been told that the money would need to be bonded in case of failure of the park. He asked Nick Casalanguida for his opinion. Nick said that there would have to be some sort of surety of the money, that the county would not enter into any kind of agreement without some sort of surety, whether it's a first lien on the property or some sort of bonding, something that will give the county recourse if something goes wrong. Terry Cooke of FTT asked the committee members to tell him what they want for their money? He said he has asked before and no one has really given him a clear response. He asked Mario if he was only looking for was a 50% discount on admissions. Mario said it was just a suggestion, to get a 50% discount from any park. Terry asked again if a 50% discount for 5, 10, or 20 years is what is wanted? Mario said what he wants is a park in Collier County, but that is not likely to happen. Mario wants to continue looking for other options, and meanwhile let Collier County residents enjoy a discount at any park by allocating some of the money for that. ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Sept.3,2013/Page 5 of 8 Terry asked if he's willing to risk someone taking the money in the meantime. Mario said yes. Greg Westgate does not want to take that risk. Greg wanted to offer his opinion. He said he's been to Lazy Springs, which is a nice park, but a lot smaller than what they were looking for. Mario agreed, but wished it were in Collier County. Greg said that they went to the BCC and got permission to look outside the county, due to the high cost of land in Collier. Greg doesn't understand the sudden concern with this issue and with the fear of losing the money. Mario replied that perhaps he didn't make himself clear. What he would like is to use some of the money now, as he proposed, for residents to enjoy other parks at a discount. Then perhaps in six months time, if they find no other option, they can invest in a private/public partnership. At least this would give Collier County residents some opportunity to use this money. Mario thinks they need to agree to disagree. Greg thinks that during the last year and a-half, they have come to several agreements — including going outside the county, entering into a public/private partnership (as long as the money is bonded or protected). He doesn't understand the turnaround views just because they're not in Collier County. Greg disagrees with Mario and said he is for public/private partnership — he believes we would be going backwards if we proceed with this option. Chairman Pelletier said that the purpose of the meetings was to discuss all issues and it was okay to disagree on things. He said each idea and park has pluses and minuses. Nick Casalanguida said that the BCC gave them the ability to do other things. They gave them the ability to look outside the county. Nick reminded them that they are an advisory committee — so they will give the BCC a recommendation and that, obviously, being split doesn't help. If you go in front of the BCC with two going one way and three going another, it doesn't look good. Nick wanted to clarify their choices. He said he is hearing it as a choice between: • Putting some of the money toward a use now but continue looking; and • Putting all of the money to use by trying to negotiate a deal with one or more of the parks. Mario said that he is not against partnering up with one of the parks. He just feels that he would like to use some of it now. He said perhaps in six months we might be getting feedback from riders suggesting that we partner with Devils Garden, or Lazy Springs, or Florida Tracks and Trails, etc. Greg thinks we should move forward ASAP, but intelligently, with perhaps one or two of these businesses. He thinks we need to quit looking for something that's not available. Mario thinks we need to give residents a chance to go to all the parks to decide. Greg says he would never go to Redneck Yacht Club. Mario said that if he got a 50% discount, even if he has to drive an hour, he would go. Chairman Pelletier asked Nick about what he thinks the BCC will do with the money. Nick said that he doesn't get the impression that they will be doing anything with it at this point. Nobody has made any indication that they are interested in taking that money. 2. Determine if want to move toward Request for Proposal and take to BCC and/or determine other items that want to recommend to BCC Nick said that he thinks what we're trying to get to is an update. The BCC likes to get a sense of what is going on. He said it should be a formal position, but it doesn't have to be tonight or even ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Sept.3,2013/Page 6 of 8 next month. It should be somewhat soon, perhaps November or December. He thinks that tonight they need to start to lay out some ideas they want the committee members to hear. Nick said he has heard the two suggestions mentioned earlier. They need to decide if there will be any others. William suggested that the committee members be contacted and asked to write down their proposals and they be discussed at the next meeting. Nick said we could ask Connie to communicate with the members and ask them to come to the next meeting prepared to discuss the issues and their proposals. The chairman also said they would like to know where they would get "the best bang for their buck". To do that he said they would need specific proposals from the parks. Bill McDaniel from Lazy Springs asked if he could speak. He said that Terry Cooke asked a very good question. What are you folks here for? He said that Mr. Pelletier made a good point— you represent the people of Collier County. And three out of five of you all like different things. Different people have different issues because of their personal guidelines. He said that at the end of the day, you have to remember you represent the people of the county. Bill said we all have good things and some not so good things in our parks. As an aside, he mentioned that he has 175 acres of lakes and 200 acres of land, not the other way around as mentioned earlier. We all have pluses and minuses, benefits and detractions. He said that the disagreements that have come up tonight are as diverse as the residents of Collier County. He feels that whatever the county comes up with in terms of offering its residents, whether it's discounts, public/private partnership, etc., it's going to entice riders to come out and participate. Dave Kelly from the Redneck Yacht Club said that he had been attending the meetings for about six months and he said he feels like the committee really has moved forward. He has seen a lot of progress in that time. He said he doesn't feel like any of the ideas are mutually exclusive of each other. He doesn't see why you can't do something like Mario suggested, getting people out riding soon. He said you can see who would be willing to discount to make that happen, while still looking for something more. He thinks Terry had a good question —the park providers want to know what the county/riders want. What has the committee decided that is in the best interest of the riders? Nick Casalanguida asked Terry Cooke how soon Florida Tracks and Trails will be open. Terry said construction should be started by the second week of October. They should open the first part of FTT sometime between March and May of 2014. Nick suggested that it may be good to have a public meeting to let people know what we're doing and present options. Chairman Pelletier said they had previously discussed how difficult it is to make everybody happy. He feels that having a hundred different opinions may be overwhelming. He feels the committee is pretty representative, with 2 wheelers, 4 wheelers, and a jeep guy. He would like to get the Request for Proposals (RFP) process started because he feels they will have more specifics to present then. Nick said that you can do a RFP, but you must be clear about what you are requesting. It has to state that it's a direct investment in a park or parks, or perhaps a buy down that will give county riders a discount. You have to be clear and specific in what you are asking for. Greg Westgate asked Terry what his proposal is/was. Terry said he was planning a pre- construction deal that would include free Fridays and a 50% discount the rest of the time. The park will be open Friday thru Sunday for the first year and a-half to two years, then will be open five days per week. (It is permitted to be open seven days per week.) He's not sure what he will put in his RFP at this point. The reason he wanted to know what the committee wanted, was because he wanted to figure out if he could make it happen. He is looking at a long term deal. ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Sept.3,2013/Page 7 of 8 Greg said he doesn't want to be fixated on the money. He is looking for a place to ride for the long term. The money aspect of a discount would just be a benefit. Nick said that he thinks we need to get all committee members here. You need to lay out your ideas and start formulating a checklist of options for the RFP. He proposed that the committee rate the options as first, second, third, etc. then take that to the BCC. We can say we'd like to execute one of these options for the RFP. If they agree, then Nick will help the committee put together the RFP. Nick reviewed some of the points discussed tonight: • Spend some money now (subsidize) and wait for other options; • Go out now and partner with a park or parks; and/or • Move money to an interest bearing account. Ivor Wigham asked to speak. He thought that if the committee decided to use some money now, he thought an easy way would be some sort of coupon system, where you could get coupons off the internet and take them to a park and the park gets reimbursed from the county for it. He said it was just a thought. Mario agreed he was thinking along those lines. Ivor said with a coupon system, you can try all the parks and see which one you like. Dave Kelly from the Redneck Yacht Club mentioned that they have an ATV only weekend coming up Oct. 12. It may be an opportunity for committee members to visit the facility. Nick Casalanguida said that the members can go individually, but cannot discuss business when they are together. Dave said if anybody is interested, let him know. He can facilitate their entry at the gate. Bill McDaniel mentioned that Lazy Springs is open every weekend. He also said that his information packet uses the word "subsidization", not discount. The entry price is the same for all, but Collier residents would be receiving a subsidy. Greg asked if their proposal also included an option for a sum of money for investment in the park. Bill agreed that he had listed both, because he did not know the direction the committee was leaning toward. Nick said that one proposal for an RFP may be to ask if a park is willing to take $500,000, what type of discount would the park guarantee Collier County residents. One answer may be — 25% discount in perpetuity. Invest in that particular park and the park can provide surety and could give a discount. More than one place may answer that question in a similar way and there could be multiple places to ride. Nick again suggested trying to get everybody to the next meeting and get a checklist going. Greg wanted to know how to get the rest of the members to show up. Bill McDaniel proposed that for the next meeting, everybody should send their ideas to Connie before the meeting. That way, if somebody is unable to make it, Connie could present their ideas to the committee. Chairman Pelletier suggested when Connie sends out the next email, they emphasize the date and strongly suggest being there. Nick summarized that the committee would like to send out a communication, saying they want to rank and rate ideas during the next meeting. Bill McDaniel said there appeared to be one consensus — to get the money out of the general fund — segregate it and collect interest on it. Nick said that can be added to the proposal list. ATV Park Ad Hoc Committee Meeting Minutes Sept.3,2013/Page 8 of 8 C. Any other items the committee wants to discuss Connie wanted to remind the members of the Sunshine Law. She said please remember that all business needs to be discussed within the meeting. Please keep that in mind. Please avoid giving any perception of impropriety such as when leaving the meeting, please don't congregate in parking lot. VI. Public Comment Bill McDaniel thanked the committee for allowing him, Terry Cooke, Ivor Wigham, and Dave Kelly to speak. VII. Next Meeting Date Chairman Pelletier suggested the date for the next meeting be as soon as possible. Pending verification for other members, the committee has tentatively agreed to meet on Thursday, Sept. 26. Connie will send out e-mails. VIII. Adjournment Chairman Pelletier asked for a motion to adjourn the meeting. William Combs moved to adjourn, Greg Westgate seconded the motion. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Having no further business the meeting was officially adjourned at 6:58 p.m.