PBSD MSTBU Agenda 02/21/2012 Clam Bay Subcommitteeo 3 co ITu
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BY.......................•
PELICAN BAY SERVICES DIVISION
Municipal Service Taxing and Benefit Unit
NOTICE OF PUBLIC MEETING TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 2012
THE CLAM BAY SUB - COMMITTEE OF THE PELICAN BAY SERVICES DIVISION BOARD
WILL MEET ON TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 21 AT 4:00 PM AT THE COMMUNITY CENTER
AT PELICAN BAY, LOCATED AT 8960 HAMMOCK OAK DRIVE, NAPLES, FLORIDA
34108.
Fiala
AGENDA Hiller
Henning
Coyle __-r-
The agenda includes, but is not limited: Coletta
1. Roll Call
2. Permits and Regulatory Updates by Dave Trecker, Chairman
3. Clam Bay Tidal Monitoring Procedures & Purpose; Update on Status of 2011 Annual Report
by Kenneth K. Humiston, P.E., Humiston & Moore Engineers
4. Clam Bay Restoration 2011 Annual Report
by Tim Hall, Senior Ecologist & Principal, Turrell, Hall & Associates, Inc.
5. Public Comments
6. Adjourn
ANY PERSON WISHING TO SPEAK ON AN AGENDA ITEM WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE (3) MINUTES
PER ITEM TO ADDRESS THE BOARD. THE BOARD WILL SOLICIT PUBLIC COMMENTS ON SUBJECTS
NOT ON THIS AGENDA AND ANY PERSON WISHING TO SPEAK WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE (3)
MINUTES. THE BOARD ENCOURAGES YOU TO SUBMIT YOUR COMMENTS IN WRITING IN
ADVANCE OF THE MEETING. ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED
TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD IS MADE, WHICH INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND
EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY
WHO NEEDS AN ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS MEETING YOU ARE
ENTITLED TO THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE PELICAN BAY
SERVICES DIVISION AT (239) 597 -1749.
Misc. Comes:
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February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee Meeting
2. Permits and Regulatory Updates by Dave Trecker, Chairman
Page 1 of 3
TO: PBSD Directors
FROM: Dave Trecker
Clam Bay Subcommittee
SUBJECT: Clam Pass Dredging
DATE: December 5, 2011
This is a brief update on the permit application for Clam Pass dredging.
Collier County (Coastal Zone Management), in consultation with the Pelican
Bay Foundation, applied earlier this year for a 10 -year maintenance permit
to dredge Clam Pass. The permit request [SAJ- 1996- 02789(IP -LAE)] was
directed to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) and the Florida
Department of Environmental Protection (FDEP).
The stated purpose: "Conduct periodic maintenance dredging over 10 years
in the Clam Pass /Clam Bay for ecological improvement of this estuary, with
re- utilization of suitable dredged materials for beach re- nourishment."
Clam Pass was previously dredged between 1981 and 1998 to reopen the
pass when closed by sedimentation and in 1999, 2002 and 2007 as part of a
regular maintenance program.
The current permit request would allow periodic maintenance dredging of a
80 -foot -wide entrance cut to "an historic target depth" of 3.6 — 5.1 feet at
mean low water. Maps appended to the request specify the template — width
and depth of dredging Clam Pass and the inlet extending inland 1,800 lineal
feet to the start of waterways leading south to Outer Clam Bay and north
through the mangroves to Inner Clam Bay. This is comparable to the actual
dredging carried out in 2007.
The permit request is silent on "triggers" — conditions that would justify or
require future dredging. However, a response to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service (USFWS) specified, "Periodic dredging of Clam Pass is `triggered'
to occur when the average cross sectional area within the active portion of
dredge template is consistently below 200 sq. ft. (2007 Humiston & Moore
Monitoring Report). Tidal prism and phase lag will also be monitored and
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee Meeting
2. Permits and Regulatory Updates by Dave Trecker, Chairman
Page 2 of 3
used as indicators of when dredging is required. Monitoring and
maintenance of the pass will be initiated by cooperative agreement between
Collier County and Pelican Bay."
The so- called "triggers" were based on data analyses by and
recommendations from coastal engineering experts — Humiston & Moore,
Atkins and Olsen Associates.
It is unclear whether the response to the USFWS qualifies as an amendment
to the permit application. It probably doesn't matter, because the "triggers"
are largely subjective. No metric limits are assigned to tidal range and phase
lag changes, and no length of time is specified for the cross - sectional
template to be below 200 sq. ft. When Clam Pass is dredged would be a
judgment call by the County and Foundation, presumably with guidance
from their consultants.
Critics of the permit request say an 80 -ft. entrance cut is excessive; a less
invasive 40 -ft. cut would suffice. They also urge that biological monitoring
be part of the permit. Some say "triggers" for dredging should include
biological considerations.
All parties agree periodic dredging of Clam Pass is necessary. Most agree
the 1999, 2002 and 2007 dredgings enhanced the health of the estuary. Most
also agree dredging is not needed at this time, since the estuary is healthy
and current flushing is adequate.
My take on the situation is as follows.
While an 80 -ft. entrance cut may be excessive, it apparently does
no harm. The 2007 dredge, which used an 80 -ft. cut, did little if any
damage to Clam Bay. It was a net plus. The estuary remains healthy.
Because the allowed dredging would not extend far inland, it should not
lead to more boat traffic in the interior bays. Outer Clam Bay would
remain shallow; Seagate would still have trouble getting its big
powerboats to the Gulf.
There is no evidence the allowed dredging would portend future
"navigational dredging" in Clam Bay or inter -bay flushing of Moorings
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February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee Meeting
2. Permits and Regulatory Updates by Dave Trecker, Chairman
Page 3 of 3
Bay, both of which I assume would be vigorously opposed by everyone
in Pelican Bay.
It is my understanding that permit approval awaits two biological opinions —
one from the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (for the
FDEP) and one from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (for the USACE).
No action of the PBSD board is required or recommended at this time.
2/17/2012
1
COLLIER COUNTY
WATER QUALITY REGULATIONS
U. S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
MUST APPROVE BY NOVEMBER 2012 AND
IMPLEMENT BY MAY 2014
LEGAL ACTION BROUGHT BY ENVIRONMENTAL
GROUPS
CLAM BAY DREDGING
APPLICATION FOR...
DREDGING FOOTPRINT COMPARABLE TO 2007
80 -FT. ENTRANCE CUT, 3.6- 5.1 -FT. DEPTH (MIN)
EXTENDING INLAND 1,800 LINEAR FEET
CLAM BAY DREDGING
NO BIOLOGICAL "TRIGGERS' IN PERMIT
MANGROVE HEALTH
ALGAE BLOOM
DREDGING TRIGGER A JUDGMENT CALL
BY COUNTY / FOUNDATION
CLAM PASS DREDGING
COLLIER COUNTY PERMIT APPLICATION
U. 5- ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS SA! -1996 -02789 (W -C AE)
FLORIDA DEPT, OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION 029,087- OQ' -IC
PURPOSE:
"PERIODIC MAINTENANCE DREDGING OVER 10
YEARS... FOR ECOLOGICAL IMPROVEMENT OF
ESTUARY... UTILIZING DREDGED MATERIALS FOR
BEACH RENOURISHMENT"
STATUS:
FLORIDA DEPT. OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
APPROVAL LIKELY WITHIN 30 -60 DAYS
CLAM BAY DREDGING
TRIGGERED BY...
DROP OF CROSS - SECTION OF DREDGE
TEMPLATE BELOW 200 SO. FT.
TIDAL PRISM AND PHASE -LAG CHANGES
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board
(Submitted by Marcia Cravens)
Page 1 of 6
From: Brad Cornell <millercornell @mindspring.com>
Subject: Clam Bay channel markers and dredging
Date: April 9, 2009 8:49:58 AM EDT
To: Gary McAlpin <GaryMcAlpin @colliergov.net>
Cc: kathyw <kathyw @conservancy.org>
TO: Members of the Coastal Advisory Council, in care of Gary McAlpin
FROM: Brad Cornell, Collier County Audubon Society
RE: Clam Bay channel markers and dredging
DATE: April 9, 2009
On behalf of Collier County Audubon Society, I wish to share a couple comments
on the discussion you will have today regarding both Clam Bay channel marker
and proposed dredging of the pass:
1. While it is valuable to mark sensitive shallow areas in the bay and shallow
flats area behind the pass, markers should not be used to suggest any
inappropriate use of this shallow estuarine area by motor boats of any
kind. Such uses would be in conflict with the shallow sea grass beds and other
estuarine resources of this area.
2. Dredging of the pass should be only for the purposes of maintaining proper
tidal flushing and not for a source of beach renourishment. Additionally, such
dredging should occur only as needed and not on any periodic basis. The
natural contours, directions and flows of the channels and streams should not be
altered. If there are other salinity balancing measures needed, examination of
eastern freshwater inputs should be made to consider any needed adjustments
there, as well.
3. Any consideration of dredging needs must account for the entire ecological
system needs and not just the narrow issues of tidal flushing or beach
renourishment.
Thank you for your consideration of our input on this discussion of management
measures for one of the few natural estuarine /gulf inlet ecosystems in Collier
County.
Brad Cornell
Southwest Florida Policy Associate
Collier County Audubon Society
10208 th Avenue, South
Naples, FL 34102
239 - 643 -7822
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board
(Submitted by Marcia Cravens)
Page 2 of 6
November 2, 2011
Linda Elligott,
Please accept this correspondence for the record of File No. SAJ- 1996 -02789 (LE) and respond to its
content by return email to the Sierra Club Calusa Group. We are an advocate for preservation and
protection of the Clam Pass undeveloped portion of the coastal barrier island including the location of the
requested permit activity. We request that the Corps conduct a permit Workshop to provide NGOs an
opportunity for meaningful participation with the permit reviewers which is not accorded by the limitations
of written public comments and is needed to remedy the deficient permit application.
Background:
Sierra Club members, other NGOs and general public advocacy to the Corps for Clam Pass /Clam Bay
resources resulted in the Corps requirement for the Coral Ridge - Collier Property owner developers of
Pelican Bay to abide by Corps permit Special Conditions which predicated Corps authorization to fill a
maximum of 78 acres of mangrove wetlands in the far NW area for the Pelican Bay development only
upon the owner /developers agreement that the remaining 570 acres of coastal barrier natural resources
within Pelican Bay development boundaries would be set aside in a manner that restricted it to
Conservation /Preservation in perpetuity. The Corps permit 79K -0282 issued on November 18, 1981 is as
it required, a part of official county records pertaining to its Special Conditions of protection from further
development of the remaining 570 acres Clam Pass /Clam Bay coastal barrier resource area.
Sierra Club Calusa Group advocates on behalf of current and future members to retain their ability to
enjoy passive activities that are compatible with and do not degrade the Clam Pass /Clam Bay
Conservation and Natural Resource Protection Area (NRPA) Preserve. The human benefits include its
aesthetic beauty; opportunities to observe wildlife; guided nature walks; nature photography;
undeveloped beach experiences; fishing in Clam Pass, the surf and backwaters; paddling through quiet
meandering creeks with mangrove tunnels; swimming, wading, snorkeling, etc.
The proposed dredging project is one of several projects planned by the County in the Clam Pass CBRS
FL -64P unit. These projects individually would directly degrade natural resource characteristics that
support diverse wildlife and that our members enjoy and benefit from. Secondary impacts from each
project are expected to further degrade areas that our members and the general public expect to remain a
protected natural resource preserve. Degradation of resources by construction /excavation is inconsistent
with the prior JC permit authorization and inconsistent with the 1981 Corps permit Special Conditions.
Cumulative impacts from combined construction and excavation projects in the Clam Pass FL -64P unit /
Conservation and NRPA Preserve would reduce its functions of aquatic nursery, wetlands habitat, and
beach /dune areas and constitute an unacceptable taking of established listed /unlisted wildlife and human
uses.
The 2009 application to dredge Clam Pass /Clam Bay doesn't conform to Corps and County requirements
to primarily retain natural conditions of the waters, creek/lagoon shorelines, beach and dune areas with
limited exceptions. Conformance to prior authorizations should limit any dredging re- authorization to the
minimal amount necessary to keep the Clam Bays and creeks open to the Gulf of Mexico and never done
to remove the maximal amount of sand possible from the Clam Pass system and should exclude dredging
the Clam Pass ebb shoal for the purpose of taking sand to use for beach nourishment. Note that prior JC
permits authorized placement of beach quality sand from minimal dredging events to reopen Clam Pass
as an Incidental benefit and never as the purpose of those permits. No sand placement should occur on
the natural beaches in the Clam Pass undeveloped CBRS unit 64 -P until and unless it's had
severe /critical erosion of beach areas that's proven by comparison of historic measured baselines
established prior to beach nourishment during the 1990s vs new evidence of enduring erosion in FL -64P
unit.
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board
(Submitted by Marcia Cravens)
Page 3 of 6
Summary:
Sierra Calusa Group recognizes the current application to dredge Clam Pass /Clam Bay as incomplete for
the following reasons:
It failed to report the project area's special designations intended to protect nearshore and offshore
aquatic resources, wetlands, and beach;
It failed to provide County official records that protect the area from further development
(construction /excavation) in the Clam Bay NRPA Preserve aka Clam Pass CBRS unit;
It misrepresented the minimal authorized dredging template of the 1998 JC permit, improperly discredited
the engineers of record and misrepresented that Tackney had not provded a model;
It omitted important Cultural /Archaeological Sites that were shown by map and commented on by the
Florida Department of State - Division of Historical Resources with specific conditions to protect those sites
by avoiding disturbances to them for the 1998 FDEP JC permits;
It failed to identify that its current offshore assessment of live hardbottom differs significantly from that
submitted for the 1998 JC permits which indicates an apparent loss of approximately 150 to 200 ft
seaward that may be direct/secondary impacts from dredging and beach sand placement.
The applicant's failure to reference many comprehensive reports on the area's environmental
characteristics which other researchers / consultants have referenced is likely to be largely responsible for
a serious lack of understanding for the project area and deficiency of necessary information to inform a
sufficient permit review by the Corps and its consulting agencies.
Sierra Calusa Group requests the Corps to conduct a workshop with the consulting federal agency
persons already involved in biological reviews and include our participation for submittal and discussion of
materials we may provide that are missing from the permit application and therefore cause it to be
inaccurate and incomplete. We request this as a means for meaningful participation to remedy the
currently deficient permit application that is cause for insufficient Corps and Consulting Agencies review
of it. Consider these concerns to also be the basis of a Corps permit hearing by the Sierra Club Calusa
Group.
Bobbie Lee Gruninger
Chairperson, Sierra Club Calusa Group
bleegruninger @comcast.net
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board
(Submitted by Marcia Cravens)
Page 4 of 6
October 28, 2011
Ms. Linda A. Elligott
U.S. Army Engineer District, Jacksonville
Fort Myers Regulatory Office
1520 Royal Palm Square Blvd.
Suite 310
Fort Myers, Florida 33919
Dear Ms. Elligott:
Re: Permit Application # SAJ- 1996 -02789
I am writing to request that the Corps conduct a workshop in regards to permit application
# SAJ- 1996 -02789 (IP -LAE) "Clam Pass ".
There is still a lot of concerns in regards to this permit, specifically in regards to dredging
dimensions and dredging triggers from various groups. The Conservancy is concerned
about the possible environmental impacts in regards to this permit. As stated in previous
RAI responses to your office we are particularly concerned about the following:
Dredging Triggers - Sequence of Events that determine whether or not a dredging event is
necessary to alleviate Environmental Concerns in the Clam Bay NRPA.
Dredging Permit Discrepancies. There appears to be differences in the dredging template
between the 1998 dredging plans submitted to USACOE and FDEP and the current permit
seems to merge the two plans to yield the maximum dredge footprint.
Monitoring Plans to ensure that the estuary is suffering no impacts as a result of the
dredging activities
Reference within the permit to dredging the ebb shoal as this was mentioned in an
attachment of the original permit submission.
I believe that a workshop would be beneficial to all involved so that concerns can be
aired and hopefully alleviated. I believe we all have good intentions to protect the
environment and hope that you would consider holding this type of forum so that all
involved including FWC and other agencies that have been involved in this permit, the
Conservancy and other environmental groups could work together to achieve the
primary goal of protecting this mangrove estuary.
Sincerely,
Kathy B, Worley
Co- Director of Science, Conservancy of Southwest Florida
239 - 403 -4223
kathyw @conservancy.org
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board
(Submitted by Marcia Cravens)
Page 5 of 6
MANGROVE ACTION GROUP
PO Box 770404 Naples, FL 34107
November 17, 2011
Linda A. Elligott
Department of the Army
Jacksonville District Corps of Engineers
1520 Royal Palm Square Blvd — Suite 310
Fort Myers, FL 3391
Re: Clam Pass Dredging, Permit Application No: SAJ- 1996 -02789 (IP -LAE) —
Request for Conference with Federal agency reviewers
Dear Ms. Elligott,
In June, comments were submitted by the Mangrove Action Group expressing concerns of
our members related to the proposed permit to dredge Clam Pass. We understand that the
application is substantially complete, with one of the few outstanding items being the biological
opinion on impacts to wildlife required from the US Fish and Wildlife Service and the National
Marine Fisheries Service.
Before any decision is made, we request that representatives of the Mangrove Action Group
and other non - governmental environmental organizations familiar with the Clam Bay system be
afforded an opportunity to meet with you and the technical reviewers from USFWS and NMFS.
We understand that the Conservancy of Southwest Florida and perhaps other environmental
organizations from the region have submitted a similar request.
Not only are there potential impacts to specific species of concern, including nesting sea
turtles and piping plovers, but potential impacts on the mangrove ecosystem of which Clam Pass
is an integral part. This protected coastal conservation area has been carved out of surrounding
urbanized Collier County. It provides a nursery ground for fish and marine life and an important
resting, nesting and foraging ground for a multitude of birds. Yet the dredging permit application
does not indicate the key fact of Clam Bay's protected status in either its maps or responses to
application questions. We are concerned that these considerations are not being fully taken into
account.
In responding to RAI #2, the applicant indicated that ".. _ a working group was developed
between Collier County and Pelican Bay Foundation ... to provide an open forum to encourage
dialogue between the parties regarding the proposed dredging activity and JCP application."
However, it should be noted that this working group did not provide for public participation.
The meetings were conducted between Collier County administrators and their consultants and
the Pelican Bay Foundation administrators and their consultants. Environmental and community
groups were informed of the results of the meetings and invited to submit comments, but were
generally not involved as direct participants. Much of our input is not reflected in the
application.
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board
(Submitted by Marcia Cravens)
Page 6 of 6
Clam Pass Dredging Application
November 17, 2011
Page 2
That is why we feel it is so important to have a chance to meet with you and the reviewers
from USFWS and NMFS, so that our concerns and recommendations can be fully explicated and
discussed before a decision is rendered.
Sincerely,
Mary clean Johnson
President, Mangrove Action Group
(239) 566 -7515
cc: Jeff Howe, USFWS
Mark Stramak, NOAA/NMFS
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board Regular Session
Submitted by Marcia Cravens (Part II of II)
Page 1 of 25
May 26, 2009
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, May 26, 2009
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special district as has been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Donna Fiala
Fred Coyle
Jim Coletta
Frank Halas
Tom Henning
ALSO PRESENT:
Jim Mudd, County Manager
Leo Ochs, Deputy County Manager
Michael Sheffield, Assistant to the County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Sue Filson, BCC Executive Manager
Page 1
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board Regular Session
Submitted by Marcia Cravens (Part II of II)
Page 2 of 25
May 26, 2009
Item #I OB
THE CLAM PASS MAINTENANCE DREDGING PERMIT
APPLICATION THAT IS REQUIRED TO PERFORM TIDAL
FLUSHING OF CLAM BAY ESTUARY AND IS NECESSARY
TO RE -OPEN THE PASS IN THE EVENT OF STORM CLOSURE
- APPROVED W /CHANGES
MR. OCHS: Madam Chair, that takes us to Item IOB.
Recommend approval from the Board of County Commissioners of
the Clam Pass maintenance dredging permit application that is
required to perform tidal flushing of Clam Bay estuary and is
necessary to reopen the pass in the event of a storm closure.
Gary McAlpin, your coastal zone management director, will
present.
MR. McALPIN: Thank you. Commissioners, for the record,
Gary McAlpin, coastal zone management.
The item you have before you is to obtain approval for the permit
application. The existing ten -year permit had a one -year extension,
and that extension will expire in July of this year.
We need a permit so that we can continue to perform tidal
flushing, maintenance dredging of the estuary, and also open the
estuary in case we get a trop- -- a storm event and it closes. We need
a permit to re -open it at that point in time.
This permit application is for the cut, and the dredging is exactly
the same as the previous permit. The -- where we placed the sand on
the beach has changed because the dune elevations has changed, but
the cut has -- and the cross - sections are exactly the same. We did that
so that -- so that we could minimize the controversy associated with
this permit.
It went through the Clam Bay Advisory Committee permit
Page 60
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board Regular Session
Submitted by Marcia Cravens (Part II of II)
Page 3 of 25
May 26, 2009
subcommittee and passed 3 -0. It went through the Clam Bay
Advisory Committee main committee, and the permit was approved
7 -2 on 3/19, and the Coastal Advisory Committee recommended
unanimously for approval of this permit application.
So we are looking at the permit application. The permit will take
approximately nine months to get, and we are also seeking approval
that -- to go forward with another one -year extension on the existing
permit application. One -year extension on the permit application so
that we can be covered until this new permit application is processed
and granted by DEP and the Corps.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. We have speakers?
MS. FILSON: We have six speakers.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Would you please call our
speakers.
MS. FILSON: Marcia Cravens is the first speaker. She'll be
followed by Rich Yovanovich.
MS. CRAVENS: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thank you
for the opportunity to address you on this most important issue for
many of us who are environmental advocates and who love this
outstanding natural resource area called the Clam Pass Natural
Resource Protection Area.
The first thing I'd like to address is a petition drive that the
Mangrove Action Group, of which I am the president, has been (sic)
conducted and which we have collected over 2,000 signatures of other
environmentally minded people who do object to all of these projects
that are targeting Clam Bay.
If you would like to see all 2,074 signatures, I can certainly
provide them to you. But right now I just have a letter and an example
of the petition itself.
In addressing the dredging permit, I just want to say that this
permit application is not exactly what is currently in place. All these
Page 61
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board Regular Session
Submitted by Marcia Cravens (Part II of II)
Page 4 of 25
May 26, 2009
little blue marks, these are places where it differs.
Primarily, one of the big places where it differs is in the depth of
the dredge cutting full area, which is -- the cuts in number four are in
Clam Pass itself.
Yes, it's true that that permit was modified to allow a dredging
design that would widen Clam Pass as a trial, but that modification
specifically stated that it would not change the depth, that it would be
required to remain at the negative four MGD- -- 4 -foot MGVD.
There's some other things that are wrong with this. It doesn't
describe that it's in a NRPA, it doesn't describe that it affects wetlands,
it doesn't describe that it affects seagrasses, and I won't go on from
there.
Another consideration is that all of this is within an undeveloped
coastal barrier resource area in Cobra as Florida 64P.
That is the outline of the OPA, otherwise protected area. That
needs to be a consideration as you go forward with anything that
occurs that might alter anything within this protected area.
I also would like to read to you something from the South Florida
Water Management District, Chapter 40E, surface water management,
rules adopted. Conservation easement means a rider interest in
property pursuant to 704.06, Florida Statute, which is appropriate to
retain in land or water areas predominantly in our natural, scenic,
open, agricultural, or wooded condition.
Retaining such areas is suitable habitat for fish, plants or wildlife.
Retaining the structural integrity or physical appearance of sites or
properties of historic architectural, archaeological, or cultural
significance are maintaining existing land uses which prohibits any or
all of the following.
And it goes on to talk about construction of various things,
destruction of trees, excavation dredging, surface use except purposes
that the permit is done.
I had a lot more that I could say. But can I just add one thing?
Page 62
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board Regular Session
Submitted by Marcia Cravens (Part II of II)
Page 5 of 25
May 26, 2009
Chairman Fiala, there was an email from you to a Jeanne Findlater, a
resident of Pelican Bay, whereby she had asked for the Clam Bay
issues to be moved from consent agenda to the regular agenda.
You responded to her and indicated that all of the stuff would be
discussed in the afternoon after one p.m. That is why none of us were
here for that first issue of I OA. And I'd like to beg your consideration
that you have not heard from a lot of people on that particular item
because of the email that was widely circulated, and we'd like to ask
for reconsideration of it at a later date, either later this after- -- you
know, later now as the email had indicated.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'm sorry. I was wrong in that, and we
can hear the next item, the I OC, after -- after one. I don't know when
it will be, but it will be after -- after --
THE AUDIENCE: No.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No? No. Everybody wants to hear it
now. They're all here, so --
MS. CRAVENS: Well, I don't know that we might be needing to
ask for a reconsideration of this because, as I said, this was a
widely- circulated email.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You know, I don't remember saying one
o'clock, but I'm sure I must have.
MS. CRAVENS: You did indicate there was a one o'clock
time - certain in your email, but you did not indicate that there was
potential for this to be moved into a morning item.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Chairman's discretion. I don't know what to
say. Chairman's discretion. It's on the agenda. It's not notified as a
time - certain. The agenda's widely circulated. As far as
reconsideration goes, the five of you can make that motion. It's up to
you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Would it hurt any -- if I've made an error
to -- you know, in stating that to one person -- and I'm sorry that I did.
Page 63
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board Regular Session
Submitted by Marcia Cravens (Part II of II)
Page 6 of 25
May 26, 2009
I didn't even realize that I did that. Because there were so many
emails coming in at the time that I was answering, and there were
time - certains, and so -- but on different items, and I didn't realize I had
done that. Will that hurt this item at all or no?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, I don't think so, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine. Okay. And --
MR. OCHS: Commissioner?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, sir.
MR. OCHS: Ms. Ramsey has some -- I believe some additional
information that might help clarify this email question.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Great.
MS. RAMSEY: I believe that the situation was actually for the
last board meeting. The email that you sent out was for the last board
meeting. We didn't bring it on the last board meeting. We moved it to
this board meeting.
There was a confusion that we thought it was going to be on the
last one, and your email was referencing to the board meeting prior,
not this one.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, thanks. Okay, phew. All right.
Thank you very much.
Next speaker?
MS. FILSON: Rich Yovanovich. He'll be followed by Jim
Hoppensteadt.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Phew.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Good morning. For the record, Rich
Yovanovich on behalf of the Pelican Bay Foundation. As the Pelican
Bay Foundation has said in the past, the concern with the dredging
application itself is verifying that, in fact, the application is exactly
like the existing permit.
The foundation also, as you all know, is the declar- -- has become
the declarant under the quitclaim deed and declaration of covenants
and restrictions applicable to this area of Collier County. And as the
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declarant, they're responsible for making sure that the health of the
estuary and the conservation area is maintained.
We had been requesting the ability to review the permit
application under the quitclaim deed requirements that it come first to
the foundation before any formal action is taken. That didn't happen;
however, we did receive a letter recently requesting our, quote,
endorsement of the permit.
We sent a letter to Mr. McAlpin explaining why we couldn't
endorse a permit with such little time to actually review the materials;
however, we did say that -- to go ahead and submit it to the agencies
and that the foundation would review the permit itself, the application
for itself, to make sure that it is exactly the same as what was
previously approved, that the health of the estuary will, in fact, be
benefited by the application, that the dredging is for tidal flushing and
not for navigation issues, that the foundation's property near where the
dredging will occur will, in fact, be -- won't be negatively impacted by
this dredging.
And the foundation will be engaging experts to review all the
materials and providing the comments to the staff if necessary, if it's --
if there are issues that need to be raised. We would -- we would like
the board to make it very clear that although there is a budget item that
shows that dredging could occur every three years, we understand that
to be for budgeting purposes but not an indication that dredging will
happen on a routine basis.
We understand that this is a dredging application, that the
dredging will, in fact, occur when the science says dredging needs to
occur for tidal flushing and for the health of the mangroves.
That's a big concern for the residents of Pelican Bay and the
foundation in particular, so we would -- we would like that clarified
because there's -- there's information out there that honestly could be
interpreted to mean this would be happening every three years as a
routine because that's what it's being budgeted for. We just want to
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make sure that it is really a tidal flushing issue and that's just a budget
mechanism and not an actually mandate to dredge every three years.
And again, we appreciate the effort or receiving the letter from
Gary, and we've -- we are trying to express our concerns up front as
we have all along, and we hope the commission will hear those
concerns and ask staff to clarify the navigation dredging issue and that
it is not a navigation dredge, it is a tidal flushing dredge.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Jim Hoppensteadt. He'll be followed by Brad
Cornell.
MR. HOPPENSTEADT: Thank you, Commissioners. Jim
Hoppensteadt.
The only thing I would add to Mr. Yovanovich's statements are --
and this is consistent with a comment that I'll make on l OK, again, is
the indication that TDC funds are indicated to be used for this, which
is for beach renourishment.
The schedule of dredging does show up on the TDC schedule on
a reoccurring basis. That's a concern to us that is, in fact, not being
done for tidal flushing but for beach renourishment. And we are
concerned, as Mr. Yovanovich indicated, that recurring scheduled
dredging could have a detrimental effect.
MS. FILSON: Brad Cornell. He'll be followed by Kathy
Worley.
MR. CORNELL: Good morning, again. I'm Brad Cornell on
behalf of Collier County Audubon Society, and I appreciate the
opportunity to comment on this dredge portion of the Clam Bay set of
issues.
I want to emphasize that we consider dredging must be limited to
maintenance for ecologically necessary tidal flushing for the estuarine
mangrove system only. Dredging is not appropriate for navigational
purposes, as this is the only natural shallow estuarine back bay system
in the county. That's one of the reasons it's a natural resource
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protection area. So that's an important point to keep in mind when
considering how we're going to maintain this system. Dredging for
navigation is counter to that and a conflict.
I'd like to offer what might be a useful suggestion relative to this
dredge permit, and that is to suggest what I believe the technical
experts on the committee had recommended, which was, rather than a
new ten -year permit be pursued now, rather consider extending the
permit that exists and finish the ecological studies necessary to support
a new ten -year permit so that we have all the data and substantiation
for a new permit rather than jump into that without all of that
completed.
I would strongly recommend your consideration of that option. It
would just be an extension as you've already had one year for the
present permit. Do that for another period of time until we can
complete these ecological studies necessary for a new permit.
Thank you very much.
MS. FILSON: Kathy Worley. She'll be followed by Jeanne
Findlater.
MS. WORLEY: Hi. I did send you all an email, but you
probably didn't get it because it was sent Memorial Day, but I do have
copies of the letter for your perusal. There's one for staff.
I'm just going to briefly talk about a few things that are within the
letter. And as far as the dredging permit application, the following
that I'm going to say is a minority opinion as written by one of the two
technical experts that served on the Clam Bay Committee, both who
voted no on this -- on approving this permit application.
And while I appreciate the fact that many of the suggestions
made by the Clam Bay Subcommittee were incorporated into this
version of the permit, I still have some major concerns. And first is
dealing with the dredge cut specifications.
According to the reports which were done by Clam Pass
restoration, plan monitoring report number eight and Clam Bay
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restoration and management eighth annual report that were prepared
by county consultants, Humiston, Moore -- Humiston and Moore and
Turrell and Associates respectively -- according to these reports, the
dredge and depth width in 2007 caused the pass to fill in faster than
the smaller cut specifications, which were done in 2002.
And I really would like to see comparisons between these two
dredging events and the subsequent inlet response to -- and beach
erosion and how the beach profiles have developed over time in order
to make an informed decision regarding the optimum dredge cut
specifications, particularly at the pass.
And one option that Brad mentioned briefly before me was that
it hasn't been presented to you as an option, is that -- but it would
allow for dredging in case of a storm closure or while allowing time --
while allowing the time necessary to gather the data to design a whole
management plan, and that's to apply for an extension.
Now, Gary did indicate he was applying for an extension to
cover the lapse in time between this and when a permit could possibly
be approved, but you could also get an ext- -- a couple -- be more than
one year, but you could get a couple extensions so that you would
have the time to perform biological, ecological, and physical studies
so that you can have a more - informed approach to design to keep the
pass open for ecological concerns.
I'm concerned we're putting the cart before the horse, okay?
We'll be able to make more informed decisions about long -term pass
maintenance if we study the whole system first rather than jumping
into a ten -year permit.
And I guess I'll finish up. But I respectfully ask you to take this
option until a management plan has been adopted, and it's premature
to be making decisions such as initiating a ten -year plan -- I believe
it's more viable and sensible to be -- a sensible plan at this stage to get
another extension and to do all the studies.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
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MS. WORLEY: So that you have time to investigate. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Jeanne Findlater.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Jeanne, I am so sorry about that email.
MS. FINDLATEN: No, please, Madam Chair.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I never expected us to be this far ahead.
MS. FINDLATEN: It all worked out fine. It's fine. And I thank
you all for this opportunity.
I love the ten -year plan, the proposed ten -year plan, at least the
part that I was interested in, and I'm here to speak about dredging.
First I'll introduce myself. The name is Jeanne Findlater, and I'm
a 30 -year resident of Collier County, the last seven years in Pelican
Bay, where I have the privilege, along with about 7,800 other owners,
of enjoying that magnificent natural resource.
I'm extremely concerned about the provisions for dredging, and I
really applaud the compromises that were just introduced by the last
two speakers. We -- it's so frightening to see that 450,000, nearly a
half - million dollars, is proposed being set aside to dredge every three
years when we don't know any of the effects on that fragile ecosystem
that now supports millions of marine creatures and thousands of birds.
Dredging at that level of expense is far more than has ever been
done before for tidal flushing. So it is ominous because it suggests that
dredging would be done for marine purposes, and we have no
knowledge of what that effect would be on that estuary or that nesting
place.
I beg you to please consider that we do serious ecological studies
first. There have been no serious ones done of that nature on that level
since Westinghouse first put this together, and yet we are talking
about going forward with formidable, possible formidable
consequences.
An item missing from the ten -year plan that disturbed is no
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money has been set aside to provide for monitoring of assuredly
devastating effects of dredging at the level that the plan suggests could
take place.
I know there's a big impetus from the neighboring community. I
heard at some of the subcommittee meetings that one woman, in fact, I
think in this very room, stood up and said, my community stinks. And
I understand that can happen when your community is built upon a
mangrove swamp.
But I also say that that community has never addressed surface
runoff the way Pelican Bay has so successfully. They don't have
bubblers in their canals. Probably that community couldn't exist if it
were started today.
But to say in their hope -- and I understand how passionately
they must feel -- that by dredging the outer Clam Bay and the other
water systems that that could somehow solve that problem is possibly
naive.
Thank you. I urge a study, please. Thank you sincerely.
MS. FILSON: That was your final speaker, Madam Chairman.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. It's pretty clear in our
executive summary in a couple of places is the existing ten -year
permit that provides for tidal flushing, maintenance dredging of Clam
Pass, has expired and a one -year extension has been granted.
In the past have we done tidal flushing or tidal dredging for --
because of the fact of the Clam Pass has been closed up? And how
many times in the past ten years have we did any dredging in case it
has --
MR. McALPIN: Thank you, Mr -- Commissioner Halas. In the
past -- with the past ten -year permit, we have performed three tidal
flushing events. In April of 1999 we performed one. The first
original tidal flushing event, 32,000 cubic yards of material were
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removed. The dredge cut was minus 5.5, the width cut was 30, and
the permit width was 80.
In January, 2002, the permit width was 80, the width of the cut
was 40, the dredge depth was 5.5, and we removed 12,000 cubic
yards.
In April of 2007, the permit width was 80, the actual cut width
was 80, the dredge depth was 5.5, and we removed 21,000 cubic
yards.
So we have dredged this for, three times, for flushing and only
tidal flushing on this past ten -year permit.
The way the permitting system works is we make an application
to DEP, and the application we will make will be exactly the same as
the application that is in there right now for an 80- foot -wide cut at the
mouth of the pass and going down to 5.5. That's not to say that when
we get ready to do a dredging event because of tidal flushing needs
that it will be that. We have to then go back to the Department of
Environmental Protection, we have to apply for a permit, a notice to
proceed. We provide them all the engineering, we provide them all
the documentation, and then they issue us a notice to proceed based on
the permit that was granted. So we anticipate doing exactly the same
thing.
We are not looking for this to be for navigational dredging. We
are looking for this to continue to be tidal -- maintenance dredging,
permit flushing. That's exactly what we're looking to do here.
The Environmental Services Board of Collier County has -- has
issued a letter of consistency with the Growth Management Plan and
the Land Development Code on this, so they are saying that this
permit application is consistent with both the LDC and the Growth
Management Plan.
The other thing that we have told the group here is that this is
only for tidal flushing. It is not for maintenance dredging whatsoever.
And tidal flush will control. We are not looking to -- to -- we look --
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we take the sand out of here that is beach - quality sand and we place it
on the down -drift beaches. But we will only initiate a dredging event
when the science tells us that tidal flushing is required.
We use TDC funds to do this because, again, this is beach - quality
sand and we re- nourished Clam Pass Beach Park, so it's a win -win
situation. We dredge the estuary for tidal flushing to make it healthy,
and we use that sand to re- nourish the beaches.
The reference to doing this every three years, well, we have in
the last ten years, we've done it every -- we've done it three times.
What we try to do is pull together a ten -year plan for the use and
allocation of TDC funds only for budgeting, and we look to do this
only for a budgeting cycle and so that we know whether we have
enough money for the tidal -- for the entire fund allocation.
So just because we have allocated it on a three -year cycle doesn't
necessarily mean that that's when that dredging event will happen.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. A follow -up question. It
was stated by one of the speakers that we're allocating $450,000 for
this possible dredging. Has that been the same amount that we've --
it's cost us in the past?
MR. McALPIN: Yes, it has.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MR. McALPIN: In the last -- in the last dredging event, it was
450,000, and so I just reallocated that on a three -year cycle.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Why is there such
opposition to this? Has there -- was there opposition to this when we
first pulled the permit ten years ago?
MR. McALPIN: I can't comment on that. I know that there
hasn't been opposition in the past dredging event when we went and
made our application for tidal flushing dredging. I believe that the
opposition has come up since the Clam -- the Pelican Bay community
has been awarded the -- on the quitclaim deed, the restrictions, the
covenant's restrictions, and I believe that they want to look into this
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and make sure that we are doing the right thing in terms of tidal
flushing dredging.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. So from what I read on our
executive summary, unless you -- unless staff hasn't been upfront with
us, there is really no Trojan horse on this.
MR. McALPIN: None whatsoever. The permitting agencies
want to see a long permit life that -- because they don't have to go
back and -- permitting process is very expensive and very
time - consuming. That's why they look for a ten -year permit.
The question was, why don't you get a one -year -- another
one -year extension and get this resolved, but we don't know if the
DEP will give us a one -year extension.
What they want to see happening is they want to see their
permanent -- the application for a permanent permit to be put in there,
which will help us move forward with the one -year extension. Their
counsel to us is, go for another ten -year extension, and that's what
we're looking to do.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And the final question is, is this
also part of the Corps of Engineers' permit that we have, that we have
MR. McALPIN: We have to get an extension from FDEP and
the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And we've gotten the one -year
extension?
MR. McALPIN: We have gotten a one -year extension. If the
board directs us to do that, we'll get another permit, one -year -- we'll
apply for another one -year permit extension.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And what's that cost run us?
MR. McALPIN: That is usually nominal. And they usually do
not ask for information; however, we've been told that they're going to
scrutinize it at this point in time after the initial first step,
Commissioner.
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COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Do we have any -- any
studies in the past on what we've done in the past as far as dredging
and the water quality back there?
MR. McALPIN: No. We don't have any studies relative to
dredging and water quality, how they've been interrelated. We have --
we have dredged typically when the tidal flushing has not reached the
same levels that it has in the past, and that's typically what has been
done, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What -- how much is being
allocated from TDC funds for this permit?
MR. McALPIN: For the permit -- we've applied $25,000 for this
permit application using TDC funds, and that has been approved
previously.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The executive summary says,
the item will be presented to the TDC for funding approval prior to
proceeding.
MR. McALPIN: This has been approved by the TDC. I believe
I say here that --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. You've answered that
question.
Are you anticipating a lot of public input for this permit? Would
that $25,000 cover extra scrutiny?
MR. McALPIN: If it -- I don't expect that we will apply experts
on our end. If it doesn't cover our out -of- pocket costs, then we will
come back to the board and ask for additional money through an
addendum to the work order.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What about if it's challenged?
MR. McALPIN: If it's challenged, we'll go through the challenge
process. We believe that -- you know, we have -- we have -- we'll go
through the challenge process. And if we need additional funds, we'll
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ask for additional funding.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I guess my concern is, if it
is challenged, isn't it better to try to work with all the parties so you
don't have a challenge? And from what I hear is, don't trust
government. It's not anything new, not in this particular issue, is -- so
how can we work together so you're successful in this permit?
MR. McALPIN: We believe we have worked with all the
parties. Again, this has been approved by the Clam Bay Advisory
Committee, we went through a complete vetting process by the
subcommittee of the Clam Bay Advisory Committee, by the main
committee of the Clam Bay Advisory Committee, by the Coastal
Advisory Committee. So we've worked and vetted this. There's some
people out there who are -- have some concerns. They are the
minority opinion at this point in time, but we have clearly vetted this
process.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: There's a suggestion to extend
the existing permit, whether it be expired or not. Is that an option that
you can ask DEP is to work under that permit and then apply for a
ten -year management -- or a ten -year permit once the management
plan has been or -- let me try to clarify.
Apply for the existing permit or the expired permit, and if that
cannot be done, apply for what you're asking us here to do today.
Would you -- could you accept that and -- if the Board of County
Commissioners makes a motion to that effect?
MR. McALPIN: I'm not sure I quite understand. What we are
asking you to do today is to approve the application for a new ten -year
and also grant us a one -year extension to the existing permit.
DEP has come back to us, and they do not like one -year
extensions. They want to see you working towards the main permit,
the main -- for the next period of time. That's their preferred approach
moving forward. So we're trying to work with the agencies, the
permitting agencies, which will allow us to do that.
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COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right. But the suggestion was,
apply for the one -year extension. Get the management plan for the
whole estuarine system, and then apply for the ten -year permit. And
all I'm suggesting is, if the DEP says no, we're not going to give you a
one -year extension, we want you to -- we want you to do a longer one
like you're suggesting -- and my question is, if the board makes that a
part of the motion, try to do the two step but also so you don't have to
come back, if they don't want the two step, is just do the ten -year
permit. Can you accept that?
MR. McALPIN: Yes. I will accept any direction the board gives
US.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's what I would -- I mean,
boy, to have this challenged, this permit to be challenged, only to
work for the common good, from what I'm understanding, is the
flushing for this estuarine system, that would be devastating if it
closed up, and then everybody loses.
MR. McALPIN: That's why we have diligently been working
this permit application for an extended period of time, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I don't doubt that, but I just hear
that I don't trust government.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, there's a way to solve that.
And what can you put into this approval process that will give people
comfort that you're only going to do it when it has been determined it
is absolutely necessary under the terms of the permit and, furthermore,
that there will be -- it would be vetted in the public whenever you get
ready to do the dredging; is that not correct?
MR. McALPIN: We have stated that in the permit application.
We have said that the permit -- the applic- -- the primary function of
this permit is for tidal flushing, the primary goal is for tidal flushing,
and a side benefit of this is for beach renourishment. That's clearly
been stated in the draft permit application that is out there ready to be
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submitted, Commissioner. I don't know how we could be clearer than
that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Do you have that with you?
MR. McALPIN: I do not have the permit with me, the permit
application with me. We can get it very quickly though.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I would be very interested in seeing
the language, and I think a lot of the people in the audience would be
interested in seeing the language. So it is the primary point of
contention. Let's remove the point of contention by demonstrating
that the permit specifically provides that language. And the best way
to do that is to show people a copy of the permit.
MR. McALPIN: Be happy to do that, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do you want to wait to vote on this until
we see that permit?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We can do it two ways. We can
approve it contingent upon that language actually being in the permit,
or we can table it and wait until Gary can show it to the public and
demonstrate that it is in there.
MR. McALPIN: Commissioner, it is in the public. It's on our
website, so -- it's on the coastal zone management website. If you
want to, we could pull that up and we could -- or I could get copies of
it, hard copies of it and bring it here. However you want to do it. It is
-- it is available to the entire public because it's on our website.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, if it's on our web, you
could just pull it up on the computer and put it on the visualizer.
MR. McALPIN: It's going to take a little bit of time to do that, if
you want to move on to the next item, we -- however you want to do,
Commissioners.
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, if you want to move on to the next
item and I can ask Mr. Sheffield to work to pull that up and identify it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, I think we'll do that. But I have a
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question on this item, if I may.
MR. McALPIN: Okay. And Mr. Carroll would like to make a
statement, too.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. My question was, I was just
wondering, you said that you've done three tidal flushing events; is
that what you told us?
MR. McALPIN: Dredging events, yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Dredging events?
MR. McALPIN: We have dredged the tidal flushing three times.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: In the last ten years?
MR. McALPIN: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: In those three times that you did any of
this tidal flushing dredging, did -- has there been any harm or has there
been any damage or any repercussions from it at all?
MR. McALPIN: No, ma'am. It's all been positive. We've kept
the estuary open. It has been -- we've used it in -- for -- it's maintained
the health of that, it's improved the reach estuary, so there's been
absolutely no harm whatsoever over the past three events over the past
ten years.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Boy, that's a good record, if you ask me.
Okay. We're going to wait until you can pull this up. Do you
think you can do that right away, or do you need a few minutes?
MR. McALPIN: If you'll let me, I'll come over there and pull it
up while Jim Carroll is speaking.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. CARROLL: I was on the services division when we got the
ten -year permit, which was about 12 years ago. That was a great day
when we got that permit because we had been experiencing storms
closing the pass and having a great deal of difficulty getting short-term
permits.
When we got the 10 -year permit, we then had the opportunity to
face up to a very difficult problem we were having. I'm sure you've
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heard of the die -off we had in the northwest corner. It took us about
four years of work to really solve that problem and really develop the
whole flushing principal that we now use.
Kathy Worley was part of that team as we worked at developing
that flushing. The whole flushing idea evolved then, and the whole
situation then became very positive.
A statement was just made and very true; we've had ten, 12 years
of excellent results in the mangrove forest. I believe we ought to go
right ahead and approve this. I understand the concerns. We're not
going to dredge this thing every three years. We're going to dredge it
when it needs to be dredged, and that can be determined by observing
up through the flushing channels whether the whole situation is
deteriorating. And if it deteriorates, then we can anticipate that we
need to dredge and then we dredge.
There's been some controversy about whether it should be 80 feet
wide or 40 feet wide, that kind of thing. What happens is, when you
get ready to do this, when you feel like you have to dredge, whether
it's a gradual thing because of the flushing or if it's a storm which was
very sudden, when you have to do that, you have to get another
permit, and then you face up to details about the size of it.
I don't really think we need to do any more. We know how to do
this. We need that permit, I believe, to take care of things, maybe
following Commissioner Coyle's comment that we -- you know, we
confirm that this will be the case by putting it into the writeup, and we
can do that. But I just feel like we need the permit. We've had good
experience with it. We're ready to go.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Mr. Carroll. You know, as
you have spoken and according to my, you know, the answers to my
questions before, if everything has remained healthy because of this
dredging, and if we've been able to keep that area flushed so that these
mangroves have come back to life, I have a problem understanding
what the opposition is for it. I mean --
Page 79
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board Regular Session
Submitted by Marcia Cravens (Part II of II)
Page 22 of 25
May 26, 2009
MR. CARROLL: I totally agree. I think there's been some
concern expressed about the fact that we're doing this in order to
provide sand for the park there. That's just not so. That's not the
reason you dredge.
When you dredge you've got some sand, and if it's beach quality,
sure, we ought to put it on the beach, but that's not the reason we want
to do this.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's the after - effect of the dredging
though.
MR. CARROLL: That's right.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I mean, the point is, you're dredging in
order to keep this system healthy, to keep it alive, to keep everything
flushed, and I just don't understand the opposition to it.
MR. CARROLL: I don't either.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You get some sand from it, you can use it
on the beach. That isn't the reason you do it.
MR. McALPIN: Commissioner, what happens is in the permit
application, they ask you a series of questions.
MR.00HS: Gary?
MR. McALPIN: Commissioner, again, Gary McAlpin. They
ask you a series of questions in the permit application, and the first
one dealt -- the first four or so dealt with locations.
Item number five, the first item that comes up, describe in
general terms the proposed activities including any phasing. The
proposed project consists of dredging a portion of Clam Pass to aid in
flushing and improving environmental resources. Dredging activity
will be consistent with the previous authorization to station 1,800.
The total linear feet is approximately 1,800. Beach - compatible
sand will be used along Collier County Clam Pass Beach Park located
within the Clam Pass.
Describe the purpose, Item 7. The dredging of Clam Pass has
been showed to aid in flushing of Clam Bay in the interior channel
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board Regular Session
Submitted by Marcia Cravens (Part II of II)
Page 23 of 25
May 26, 2009
channels (sic) to improve environmental resources. Beach compatible
material dredged from the maintenance of Clam Pass will be placed on
the beach.
Have you obtained approval -- okay. I mean, and throughout this
whole thing when they talk about the purpose, we continue to go
through it and identify it's for tidal flushing and improvement of the
tidal resources and that the sand will be placed on previous
downstream beaches.
So I think we're consistent with what we have done in the past,
Commissioners. I think we are consistent with the direction that we've
been given through these advisory committees. And I don't know how
we can be clearer than this.
The other thing you have to remember is that just because we
make a permit application, the DEP and the Corps of Engineers are
going to scrutinize this, and they may come back, and this permitting
process will take nine months, maybe a year, and they're going to ask
for additional information.
So what we're trying to do is start the process, you know. Make
the permitting application and start the process.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Maybe we can cut to the chase.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Plain language is very, very
important to all of us, okay? So under Item 5, why don't we say that
the proposed dredging is to be performed only when the science
indicates that it is necessary for the purpose of providing flushing and
improving environmental resources. Okay? That removes the
uncertainty that exists between this statement, this fairly general
statement, and your budget, which says you've got it budgeted every
year.
So if you're clearly stating that it's only going to be accomplished
when the science indicates that it needs to be done, then that should
Page 81
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board Regular Session
Submitted by Marcia Cravens (Part II of II)
Page 24 of 25
May 265 2009
remove any objections from anybody who has a suspicion that you're
really trying to sneak in a dredging project every year.
MR. McALPIN: Commissioner, we have no problem with that
whatsoever.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. And I think -- does that --
okay. I see Mr. Hoppensteadt nodding his head affirmatively. That
seems to satisfy his objections and concerns. So we've got it solved,
right?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You got a motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I'll make a motion we
approve it.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And I second it with those --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: With the changes?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: -- changes just explained.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And Commissioner Halas, did you
want to say something, or was that it?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That was it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine.
Okay. Everyone understand the motion on the floor? Yes, Mr.
Ochs.
MR. OCHS: Commissioner, we're asking for two authorizations.
One is to proceed with the tidal flushing permit, and also Mr.
McAlpin asked for authorization to apply for an additional one -year
extension while we go through this application process.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That is your motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That is the motion, yep.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's my second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you for clarifying that.
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Any further discussion, Commissioners?
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Page 82
February 21, 2012 Clam Bay Subcommittee of the Pelican Bay Services Division Board Regular Session
Submitted by Marcia Cravens (Part II of II)
Page 25 of 25
May 26, 2009
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS : Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Ave.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. That is a 5 -0.
MR. McALPIN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The next one's going to take a
while.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. You're right about that. Maybe --
shall we -- oh, and the one after that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We've got a lot of people who've
been waiting here all morning. I'd be willing to take a late lunch in
order to proceed with it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: If it's okay with the other
commissioners.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I do -- okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And I have a suggestion that might
shorten it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, okay. Okay, very good.
Item #I OC
RECOMMEND APPROVAL FROM THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS TO INSTALL NAVIGATIONAL MARKERS
IN OUTER CLAM BAY FOR USACE PERMIT COMPLIANCE
AND RECOMMENDATION TO MOVE FORWARD WITH
PERMITTING AND INSTALLATION - MOTION TO TABLE
ITEM UNTIL AFTER LUNCH BREAK — CONSENSUS;
Page 83
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2/21/2012 PBSD CLAM BAY SUBCOMMITTEE MOTION:
Submitted by Tom Cravens
The Clam Bay Subcommittee recommends to the full
Board that:
The PBSD /MSTBU Board acknowledges, supports and
endorses requests for a collaborative Army Corps of
Engineers Clam Pass - Clam Bay Dredging Permit
Workshop with their Federal Permit Consultant Agencies
that allows meaningful participation by the Sierra Club,
Conservancy of SWF, Mangrove Action Group, and Collier
Audubon Society lo review and propose remedies of
deficiencies in permit pplication materials.