PVAC Minutes 10/03/2000 ROctober 3, 2000
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY PUBLIC VEHICLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE
NAPLES, FLORIDA, OCTOBER 3, 2000
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Public
Vehicle Advisory Committee having conducted business herein,
met on this date at 9:07 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building F
of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida with the
following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
BRYAN L. S. PEASE
PATRICIA BAISLEY
THOMAS W. LUGRIN
CLIFFORD W. FLEGAL, JR.
WILLIAM J. CSOGI
ALSO PRESENT:
THOMAS C. PALMER, ESQ., Assistant
County Attorney
MARIA E. CRUZ, Code Enforcement
Investigator
MICHELLE ARNOLD, Code Enforcement
Director
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09/21/00 12:18 FAX 941 403 2345 COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT * CLERg OF BRD ~001/001
AGENDA
COLLIE~ COLrNTY PUBLIC VEHICLE AJ3VISORY COMMITteE
October 3, 2000
9:00
COLL~B COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTE~
330~ ~. TAMIAMI TR.
ADMINI~TRATIVE BUILDING, TNIRD FLOOR
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECOPdD OF
THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, A/gD THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A
VERBAT%M RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT
T~STIMONY AND ~VIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
VI.
VII.
VIII.
ADDITIONS OR D~LBTIONS:
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: AuguSt 28, 2000
NEW BUSINESS:
A. Election of Chairman and Vice-Chairman
Declaring a PVAC position vacant
C. Richard A. Hull Angels on Wheels Medical Transp. Svc.
D. Jonathan Burton Baldia - Medexone
F. James Christopher Wa~er£ield
~e~ues~ to, oD~ra~e a Ta~i/Charter So~vice
OLD BUSINESS:
REPORTS:
DISCUSSION:
NEXT MEETING DATE:
January 2, 2001 Regular Meeting
October 3, 2000
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY.' Thanks. It's all right. Are we all set
then?
I'd like to open the Collier County Public Vehicle Advisory
Committee Meeting of October 3rd to order. May I have a roll call, please?
MS. CRUZ: Good morning. For the record~ Maria Cruz, Code
Enforcement Investigator.
Patricia Baisley?
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: Here.
MS. CRUZ: Clifford Flegal?
MR. FLEGAL: Here.
MS. CRUZ: Tom Lugrin?
MR. LUGRIN.' Here.
MS. CRUZ: Bryan Pease?
MR. PEASE: Here.
MS. CRUZ: William Csogi?
MR. CSOGI: Here.
MS. CRUZ: Eric Hyde?
MR. HYDE: Here.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: Thank you.
Do we have any additions or deletions to our agenda today?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes. For the record~ Michelle Arnold, Code
Enforcement Director. We have three additions under Item IV,
New Business. Under the Request for Operations of a Charter
Service, we will have an addition.
Item G would be Connie and Edward Fulmer, Tourist Bureau of
Goodland~ Inc., Item H will be Richard Christian, Marco Island
Area and Seaport Shuttle, and Item I will be Frank Dicicco. And
then under Request to Operate a Taxi Charter Service. That Item
G will be now J. CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: Okay. Any other
additions or deletions?
MR. FLEGAL: One question. Under old business, it says
consideration to increase.
In reading the minutes, are we not just getting information?
We're not actually going to consider a rate increase at this
meeting was my understanding in reading the minutes.
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah. We're having discussion today and
voting on it in November.
MR. FLEGAL: I don't want anybody misled that we're going to
vote on any taxicab rate increases. That kind of worries me.
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October 3, 2000
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: Do I have an approval of today's
agenda?
MR. CSOGI: I'll make a motion we approve.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: Do I have a second?
MR. HYDE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye.
We move on to new business. Oh, approval of -- I'm sorry.
We have approval of minutes from August 28th, 2000.
MR. PEASE: So moved.
MR. FLEGAL: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye.
Opposed? None.
Do you have the minutes, Bryan? Did you end up with them?
MR. PEASE: Yes, I did.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: I move on to our new business. A is
election of chairman and vice-chairman.
MR. PEASE: How long is the term of chairman and
vice-chairman?
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: I think we do it annually, right?
MR. PEASE: Is the term of the member four years or is it less?
MS. ARNOLD: Typically the chairman position is annually but
we'll look and see.
Make it up as we go. I shouldn't say that.
The ordinance doesn't have a time limitation on
MR. FLEGAL:
MR. PALMER:
the chairman.
MR. FLEGAL:
It's the pleasure of the --
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: How did this item come about on
the agenda?
MR. FLEGAL: I wasn't here so I can't --
MS. CRUZ: Staff placed the item on the agenda, thinking that
the term would be three years and the present chairman has
served the board as chairman for four years.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: Any discussion on this?
MR. HYDE: No. We just vote.
MR. CSOGI: I make a recommend -- are we voting on it?
MR. HYDE: We need a recommendation.
MR. PEASE: I think she's waiting for nominees.
MR. CSOGI: I'll make a nominee. Mr. Pease for chairman. I
nominate Mr. Pease.
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October 3, 2000
MR. HYDE: I'll second that.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye.
Opposed?
MR. PEASE: Aye.
(Laughter)
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: Now we need a vice-chairman.
I'll make a nomination for Mr. Flegal.
MR. HYDE: Second it.
MR. PEASE: Second it.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye.
Opposed?
Okay. Our next item of new business is declaring a PVAC
position vacant.
Does staff have comments about that?
MS. CRUZ: This item was put on the agenda because we had
three unexcused absences from -- by Mr. Lugrin, and he and I
discussed that maybe there was some confusion as to what the
attendance responsibilities would be of the alternate, whether or
not they were required to come for every meeting, and I don't
know.
We've got April's meeting, July meeting and August meeting
as those that were unattended by Mr. Lugrin, so it's up to the
board for a discussion as to what we want to do. And maybe
what we ought to do is clarify procedurally some of these things
with the chairman and the alternate and those types of things so
that everybody understands what the board's responsibilities
are.
MR. PEASE-' My personal feeling it's the worst job we have as
the alternate because to expect him to show up every meeting
without a vote is -- the main role is for a quorum. My personal
thought is that we don't have a lot of business that carries over.
This is a unique situation, this -- this meeting, but for the most
part it doesn't carry over, and so my suggestion is that he only be
asked to attend when there's not a quorum or it looks to be that
there's not going to be a quorum.
You know that beforehand, right~ whether there's going to be
a quorum or not? And I don't know if that's spelled out in the
guidelines, if there's anything spelled out of -- MR. PALMER-' It is not.
MR. PEASE-' Okay. That's just my personal opinion.
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October 3, 2000
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: I can agree with Bryan that it's
really not necessary for him to attend every meeting unless there
is not a quorum and we should know that ahead of time by the
responses that Maria receives back.
MR. HYDE: I agree.
MR. FLEGAL: I agree.
Do we need a motion --
MR. PEASE: Yeah. That's just what I was going to ask.
MR. FLEGAL: -- or something like that, Tom?
MR. PALMER: You could just make a motion that that be the
policy.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: Do we have a motion regarding
that?
MR. PEASE: I'll make a motion that we modify the terms of
the position of alternate so that they are not included in the
three strikes you're out policy of unexcused absences.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: Do I have a second?
MR. HYDE: Second.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: All in favor, say aye.
Opposed?
I have another question. Since we just changed chairman and
vice-chairman, when does that become effective? Should that
become effective now?
MR. PALMER: There's no reason why it can't.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: Pardon?
MR. PALMER: There's no reason why it cannot become
effective now.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: Then you are the chairperson,
Bryan.
MR. HYDE: That was good.
CHAIRWOMAN BAISLEY: One way out.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: All right. First on the Request to Operate
a Charter Service, we have Richard Hull.
Is Richard Hull here?
MR. HULL: Here.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Would you please step forward to be
sworn in?
(Mr. Richard Hull was sworn by the court reporter.)
MS. BAISLEY: Mr. Hull, I noticed on your -- your fictitious
name that you registered in the Naples Daily News --
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October 3, 2000
MR. HULL: Yes.
MS. BAISLEY: -- you state that Richard Hull and Margaret Hull
are both -- that the firm is composed of the following people;
Richard Hull and Margaret Hull; is that correct?
MR. HULL: It can be. She's my wife. She went down to do
that for me at the --
MS. BAISLEY: Because on your application it's only you
listed.
MR. HULL: I'm fine if that's the way it needs to be, or you can
add her, which would be my preference, but she won't -- she
won't be participating in the business, only to maybe help me do
some book work at home. She now works for the Yacht Club.
MR. FLEGAL: Is this a sole proprietorship or a corporation or
what it is?
HULL: Sole proprietorship.
FLEGAL: Okay. Have you got an occupational license
tell me
MR.
MR.
yet?
MR.
MR.
HULL: No, not for this business.
FLEGAL: Operating this business out of your home?
MR. HULL: Yes, for now. As long as ! -- until I get another
truck and then I'll get an office.
MR. CSOGI: So, your intent is two vehicles total?
MR. HULL: Possibly a third down the road, depending on how
fast I tend to expand.
MR. CSOGI: Two to three vehicles?
MR. HULL: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: Do you have the first vehicle yet or you haven't
bought it yet?
MR. HULL: No, I haven't bought it yet. I was waiting on to get
a license.
Would this type of transportation be considered a limousine
service then?
MS. BAISLEY: In what regard do you mean limousine service?
MR. CSOGI: Taxi, limousine or charter.
MR. FLEGAL: I think it's a charter.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Right, it's a charter.
MS. BAISLEY: But in the past --
MR. HULL: What's the difference between the two, could you
tell me, between limousine service and a charter service?
Page 6
October 3, 2000
MS. BAISLEY: There isn't a difference between a limousine
and the charter service. Limousines fall under the charter
service category, but in the past when we've had nonemergency
medical vehicles, they have been allowed to be lettered. They
don't really fall completely under that charter service, the same
as the vans don't.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Right. Yeah.
MS. BAISLEY: So, you're allowed to put whatever lettering
you'd like on the vehicle.
MR. HULL: Thank you. In my application I have stated I
wanted to put paramedics in each vehicle. That probably won't
happen until down the road, depending on the need for one, if
there's a need to have one.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Will they fall under taxi or charter?
MR. CSOGI: No. The application says -- may I ask Miss Cruz?
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Go ahead.
MR. CSOGI: Miss Cruz?
MS. CRUZ: Yes.
MR. CSOGI: I have a question on the application fee not being
checked.
MS. CRUZ: Yes, sir.
MR. CSOGI: Has it not been paid?
MS. CRUZ: It has been paid.
MR. CSOGI: Okay.
MS. CRUZ: I have a copy of the receipt if you'd like to see it.
MR, CSOGI: I'll make a motion if we have no more discussion.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do we have any more questions?
MR, CSOGI: I make a motion we approve pending criminal
background is okay.
MS. BAISLEY: And we have that background.
MR, FLEGAL: I think that's already here.
MR, CSOGI: Oh, that's right. We just got it. I just make a
motion we approve then.
MS, BAISLEY: I'll second that motion.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: All those in -- question?
MR. FLEGAL: Yes. Subject to Mr. Hull getting his
occupational license, the correct registration and so on and so
forth, and insurance, since he hasn't got a vehicle yet --
MR. CSOGI: Isn't there an application for occupation in here?
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October 3, 2000
MS. BAISLEY: His occupational license --
MR. FLEGAL: No. He said he didn't have an occupational
license yet.
MS. BAISLEY: The application is in here. He can't get that
until after we approve him.
MR. FLEGAL: Fine. So, he hasn't got a vehicle either, so he
needs to get all that paperwork and submit it. MR. HULL: To who?
MR. FLEGAL: To the county.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do you want to modify your motion?
MR. CSOGI: Yes. We've got vehicle registration -- to include
vehicle registration, occupational license and --
MR. FLEGAL: And any other, you know, paperwork he has to
have into the county. I'm not sure that there's anything besides
those two.
MS. BAISLEY: The insurance.
MR. CSOGI: Okay. I make the motion --
MR. FLEGAL: The certificate of insurance will have to be
submitted. I think you have a letter saying that they'll give it to
you, but you haven't got it yet. There are some things you have
to do.
MR. HULL: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay?
MR. CSOGI: Okay. I'll make a motion we approve based on
him getting us the vehicle registration, the certificate of
insurance, the occupational license and any other needed
documents.
MS. BAISLEY: I'll second that motion.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: All those in favor?
Opposed?
Good luck.
MR. HULL: Thank you. I have another lob to get to. Do I need
to finish the meeting?
CHAIRMAN PEASE: No. You can see Maria after the meeting
by a scheduled appointment with her.
Next, Request to Operate a Charter Service is Jonathan
Burton Baldia. Is that how you pronounce that? MR. BALDIA: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Come forward and be sworn in, please.
(Mr. Baldia was sworn in by the court reporter.)
Page 8
October 3, 2000
MR. CSOGI: Mr. Baldia, you have a registration here. It's in
your personal name. Do you lease it to the company?
MR. BALDIA: Yes, sir.
MR, CSOGI: Okay.
MR. FLEGAL: Mr. Baldia, do you have a place in Collier
County?
MR. BALDIA: Yes. I live in Collier County. It's Bonita Springs,
but Collier County.
MR. FLEGAL: It is in Collier County?
MR. BALDIA: Yes, sir.
MS. BAISLEY: I have a question for staff.
When these applications are received, do we do any checking
on existing corporations to see that they're in good standing with
the State of Florida?
MS. CRUZ: No, we don't.
MS. BAISLEY: This particular corporation, Naples Infusion
Services, Inc., according to the on-line information that you can
receive says that it was dissolved for an annual report. On 9/22,
it was dissolved.
MR. BALDIA: What?
MS. BAISLEY: 9/22/2000. It was an administration dissolution
for annual report.
MR. CSOGI: Are you the only one in the corporation or is it
you and your wife?
MR. BALDIA: It's just me and my wife. We just started but we
really haven't done anything as far as the business. Initially we
wanted to start Infusion. We're unable to get contracts because
there's no -~ there's no managed care in Collier County, so we
decided we'd just branch off a different type of business. MR. CSOGI: When did you start the corporation?
MR. BALDIA: The corporation -- I asked the lawyer initially to
do it after -~ you know, after '99, but he submitted it much way
before than I wanted it to do.
MR. CSOGI: So, it's been about a year?.
MR. BALDIA: It was submitted in December.
MR. CSOGI: Oh.
MR. BALDIA: He submitted it in December. And, so, when I
pick up -- I was even surprised that it was submitted the way,
what I had instructed.
MR. CSOGI: So, since he submitted it, you haven't submitted
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October 3~ 2000
any documents to the State of Florida saying you want to
dissolve it?
MR. BALDIA.' I haven't because I didn't even pick up my book
until --
MR. CSOGI: That's probably a misprint or --
MR. BALDIA: I haven't picked up my book.
MS. BAISLEY: But if they have to file an annual report every
year, and if you don't, your corporation automatically gets
dissolved by the State of Florida.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Dissolved, right.
MR. CSOGI: When's the deadline on that?
MS. BAISLEY.' May 31st, I think it is, or May 1st.
MR. FLEGAL.' Something like that.
MS. BAISLEY: Sometime in May.
MR. CSOGI.' But his says -- he says his attorney applied for it
in December, so it may have not --
MR. FLEGAL: It doesn't make any difference.
MS. BAISLEY: That's not a corporation then. If you look on
that paper, it says it was --
MR. FLEGAL: The annual report is due regardless of when you
file.
MR. BALDIA: Yeah. Well, you see, like I said, I didn't pick it
up until like June. I said ! really had not even done any type of
business for the fact that I was still not ready to do business.
All my instructions to the lawyer was, you know, I need to get
everything done. I don't know how to do it, just go ahead and do
it. You know~ I -- this is after the fact when after I applied for the
business for -- to be nonemergency when I find out they had
applied for it. I have no -- I didn't even find out that was
supposed to be done, to file a report.
MS. BAISLEY: It might be something that can be reinstated
by the State of Florida. I don't know how they work but --
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Yeah, as long as somebody doesn't take
the name.
MS. BAISLEY: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: Between now then.
MR. BALDIA: But when I check the computer in the system,
because I had to to a d/b/a, it didn't -- it still said active. I didn't --
you know.
MS. BAISLEY: They just did this recently. According to this,
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October 3, 2000
it was September 22nd.
MR. BALDIA: When I got my d/b/a, they approved it so I didn't
really think there was problem. The d/b/a was just done about
like a month ago.
MS. BAISLEY: That's something that would need to be
corrected before a permit could be issued, I would think.
MR. FLEGAL: Mr. Palmer, since there's a question at least, I
think, in a couple of the committee members' minds that this
corporation may not still exist -- MR. PALMER: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: -- would it not behoove the committee to ask
the gentleman to solve his problem and come back?
MR. PALMER: Or make the -- whatever approval you do today
subject to reinstatement of the corporation -- MS. BAISLEY: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: I feel more comfortable with --
MR. PALMER: -- and have that confirmed by Maria.
MR. FLEGAL: I don't feel real comfortable with it personally.
MS. BAISLEY: You might not be able to get that corporate
name anymore.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: We could make that contingent.
MR. PALMER: Well, it could be subject to --
MR. BALDIA: With a corporate name, I mean, I can just do a
d/b/a. I guess the best -- the fastest way to do it, I guess, I could
just do a sole proprietor --
MS. BAISLEY: Right.
MR. BALDIA: -- and then, you know, still -- I still own the
Medics I, so I can just do a d/b/a as Medics I again.
MR. PALMER: In all likelihood, the corporate name is still
there, and in all likelihood, he'll be able to get it back. You've
got to get in touch with Tallahassee and get your corporation
reinstated.
MR. BALDIA: Okay. That's no problem.
MS. BAISLEY: I think it is something that we should check on
in the future. It's very easily done on line.
MR. PALMER:
MS. BAISLEY:
be aware of it.
MR. PALMER:
but the -- this is a nice money generating engine.
Oh, yeah.
Because these things do occur and we should
The state used to give you a little more slack
The fees have
Page 11
October 3, 2000
gone up substantially in the last couple years, as you know. But
get in touch with those folks up there, the Secretary of State,
and chances are you'll be able to get reinstated.
MR. BALDIA: It's a matter of just doing it in Naples.
MR. PALMER: Uh-huh. Paying the -- there will be some back
charge, getting your annual report filed belatedly and getting,
you know, a certificate from them of good standing. MR. BALDIA: Okay. That's good.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do we have any other questions?
Do we have a motion of any type?
MR. CSOGI: I'll make a motion we recommend the application
based on him doing the reinstatement of the corporation with the
name -- the same name and the same status, and do you want to
give a time period on it for the next meeting or --
MR. PALMER: Well, the fact is the authorization will not
become effective until such time as the corporation is
reinstated.
MR. CSOGI: But I'm saying I don't want it to drag out if he
doesn't do it for two or three or six months. MR. PALMER: Oh, sure.
MR. CSOGI: Thirty days enough time?
MR. BALDIA: Oh, yeah. I've got a van ready to go and just,
you know.
MR. CSOGI: I'll make a -- I'll make a motion we approve as
long as he reinstates and provides staff with a copy of that with
the same corporate name as on the application and get the
status reinstated.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Is there a second?
MR. HYDE: Second.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: ALL those in favor?
Opposed?
Motion carried. Good luck.
MR. BALDIA: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Next Request to Operate a Charter
Service, Kim Yates and Don Yates. Are they present?
Come forward and get sworn in, please.
(Kim Yates and Don Yates were sworn by the court reporter.)
MS. CRUZ: Mr. Chairman, if I may, I have a copy of the current
registration. I'd like to provide a copy to the board.
Page 12
October 3, 2000
MS. BAISLEY: I'd like to make note I also checked on the
corporation and it is in good standing with the State of Florida.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Thank you.
MR. FLEGAL: Did I miss something here?
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Yeah. I'm asking the same thing, I think.
Go ahead. You first.
MR. FLEGAL: We have a registration for a vehicle, the
Automotive Management Group. We have a corporation called
charter -- Cruisers Charters Tours doing business as Atlas
Limousine.
MR. YATES: It's a lease.
MR. FLEGAL: And where is said lease?
MR. YATES: We didn't realize that we should bring it. I mean,
we have all of it but --
MR. FLEGAL: Do you have a location in Collier County?
MR. YATES: Yeah. We were told we could -- we have our
primary operations in Fort Myers. We were told that we could
use a safety deposit box location for an address here.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: I thought we --
MS. BAISLEY: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: -- that was axed a long time ago because
of the fact that you couldn't access the records.
MR. YATES: Well, not a -- I thought that it was -- the way I
understood it anyway was that the post office box was done
away with. Then it went with the safety deposit box so you
would have a place to meet.
MR. PALMER: That's my recollection is that the post office
box didn't work because you couldn't meet there.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: I hate to say that, but I think that's what
it was. That was the P.O. Box that we --
MR. PALMER: And it also has to be --
CHAIRMAN PEASE: You couldn't keep records in the P.O. Box.
MR. PALMER: Yeah. Right.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: But the bank would be all right.
MR. PALMER: And he also has to be directly assessable by
phone from Collier County. Somebody calls from Collier County,
they get the right number and they can request a service in
Collier County. There's a lot of --
MR. CSOGI: So, should his Collier County address be on the
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October 3, 2000
application and not his Cape Coral address?
MR. PALMER: Well, as long as Maria knows where the
repository of the records are is the main thing.
If we have to get -- the idea is if we really have to get at
anybody's records, that Maria will send somebody to them and
they will transfer the custody of the records to the staff to the
extent they need them in Collier County so that we don't have to
go outside of Collier County to review any records of any of these
outfits.
MR. CSOGI: So that -- let me ask you about the public though.
Are they allowed to review the records and how are they going
to find it?
MR. PALMER: The only way the public is going to review the
records is if Maria gets custody of them on behalf of the public.
There is no reason or there's nothing in this ordinance that gives
the public the right on its own initiative to go into the records of
these companies.
MR. CSOGI: All right.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any other questions?
Do we have a motion?
MR. HYDE: Make a motion that we approve it pending a copy
of the lease so that we can see the vehicle or if it's properly
titled. I think everybody else is okay.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Is there a second?
MS. BAISLEY: I'll second that motion.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: All those in favor?
Opposed? Motion carried. Good luck.
MR. YATES: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: The next item is a request to operate a
charter service, James Christopher Waterfield.
Mr. Waterfield -- or Ms Waterfield, are you present? You are?
MRS. WATERFIELD: Mrs. Waterfield.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: You're representing James Waterfield --
MRS. WATERFIELD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: -- today?
MRS. WATERFIELD: He has to be away in England.
(Mrs. Waterfield was sworn by the court reporter.)
MR. FLEGAL: Your request for a -- is to do what? What do we
want to do with this vehicle?
MRS. WATERFIELD: He has some contacts with tour
Page t4
October 3, 2000
operators and he wants to taxi people that come over from
abroad.
MR. FLEGAL: And he's going to do this under his own name --
MRS. WATERFIELD: Yes.
MR. FLEGAL: -- not a fictitious name or anything like that?
MRS. WATERFIELD: Yes. Under his own name.
MR. CSOGI: So, he wants to operate as a taxi, not as a
charter?
MRS. WATERFIELD: No. It will be a charter.
MR. CSOGI: Just strictly a charter?
MRS. WATERFIELD: Yeah. Not a taxi.
MR. PALMER: Mr. Pease, there is one issue here. This is a
home occupational license, which is fine for one vehicle, but
they say up to nine or eight vehicles are envisioned. It will have
to be made clear that authorization for one vehicle is all that's
given today because if this goes beyond two vehicles, they're
going to have to get a site and a business location other than
their home occupation.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do you understand that?
MRS. WATERFIELD: Yes. He knows that, yes.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any other questions?
Do we have a motion?
MR. FLEGAL: I'll make a motion that we approve Mr.
Waterfield subject to him obtaining registration and all of the
other proper documentation that he is required to have and
submits it to the county for one vehicle.
MRS. WATERFIELD: Okay.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Second?
MR. CSOGI: Second.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: All those in favor?
Opposed? Motion carried. Good luck.
MRS. WATERFIELD: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: The next item is Fulmer, Connie and
Edward Fulmer.
Are they here? Come forward and be sworn in.
(Connie and Edward Fulmer were sworn by the court reporter.)
MS. CRUZ: Mr. Chairman, I also have a copy of the temporary
registration for this particular application that I have to provide
the board.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Please do so.
Page 15
October 3, 2000
MR. FLEGAL: Mr. Palmer, we have a corporation here, a
couple of them. We have one, C. D. Sampling has just changed
their name to the Tourism Bureau of Goodland, Inc. in July, but
the C. D. Sampling has been in existence since '96.
And we have a credit report on a person and we have a
corporation that's been in existence since '96. I would think they
would have some kind of credit.
MR. PALMER: You would think that. There may be some
explanation.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay.
MRS. FULMER: The only explanation is that we understood
that the credit reference was for the owners of the corporation
and that's why we responded that way. The two owners,
principal owners, are Mr. Fulmer and myself, and the credit
report is on us.
We can certainly provide something on the corporation in
terms of tax reports, tax returns. Other than that, I don't really
have anything other than maybe a bank reference in the name of
the corporation.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Was the former company active in
purchasing?
MRS. FULMER: The former company is and was primarily a
service business; accounting and tax return preparation, and still
performs -- the corporation still performs that work.
So, as far as creditors, maybe office supply companies, but
mostly everything that was purchased for the corporation was
done on a cash basis.
For accounting work and tax return, it really needs to charge
for purchases, so as far as the credit reference, I'm sure ! can
come up with something. I have telephone records in the name
of the corporation, but not really credit references. I didn't buy
much on credit for that business.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do we have any other questions?
MR. CSOGI: I have one.
Are you the Tourism Bureau of Goodland or are you the
Discovery Tours by Tourism Bureau of Goodland?
MRS. FULMER: Tourism Bureau of Goodland, d/b/a Discovery
Tours.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any other questions?
MR. FLEGAL: Are you leasing this vehicle to your company or
Page 16
October 3, 2000
MRS, FULMER: No.
MR. FLEGAL: We have a registration to you personally.
MRS. FUI. MER: The vehicle is purchased in the name of the
corporation, Tourism Bureau of Goodland, Inc. It's registered to
Tourism Bureau of Goodland.
MS. BAISLEY: That's not what the temporary registration
says.
MR. HYDE: The registration says --
MR. FLEGAI.: Yeah. The registration says it is to you
personally.
MR. HYDE: -- to you individually.
MR. FLEGAL.: That's why I had asked the question.
MRS. FULMER: The other document that Maria handed you, it
should be in the name of Tourism Bureau of Goodland, Inc.
MS. BAISLEY: Do you have another document, Maria?
MS. CRUZ: No.
MRS. FULMER: To my knowledge, it's registered in Tourism
Bureau of Goodland. We just did it last week, so --
That wasn't filled out the way that -- it was our understanding,
but we can provide a lease document to you then. I think there
was some misunderstanding with financing and we called the
county and Michelle Arnold told them that we did not have to
have a vehicle for hire on the tag and that's why they apparently
filled it out this way.
MS. ARNOLD: No. The question that was proposed to me was
did the registration have to put vehicle for hire on there --
MRS. FULMER: Correct.
MS. ARNOLD: -- and you didn't have the name vehicle for hire
as the registration. The question as to whether or not to name
your business was not posed to me.
MRS, FULMER: Okay. Well, there's a understanding. When
we redid all the documents, our understanding was that it was to
be put under Tourism Bureau of Goodland, Inc., in the corporate
name, so I'll have to fill out a lease paper for you.
MS. BAISLEY: But your vehicle will be registered as a for hire
vehicle under this ordinance, not as a personal vehicle
MRS. FULMER: No. For hire.
MS. BAISLEY: Okay.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any other questions?
Page 17
October 3, 2000
Do we have a motion?
MR. HYDE: I make a motion that we approve, pending that we
get the registration situation or a lease -- well, actually a
registration issue, that it's done back to the company name and
that all the paperwork is turned in, obviously, to the county.
MRS. FULMER: Excuse me for a moment. I'm not certain that
we can get the registration in the name of the corporation then
because apparently there was an issue with financing and the
financing company apparently said that it had to be in our
names, so that's where the problem is.
So, probably what I have to do is just provide a lease
agreement for my papers here rather than the registration is
what my thought is.
MR. FLEGAL: You can own a company and finance a vehicle, I
mean, unless--
MRS. FULMER: Well, that's what we thought but --
MR. FLEGAL: I've never a heard of a finance company saying
you can't finance a vehicle because --
MR. FULMER: Yeah, well, Chrysler Corporation -- I was away.
I just got back last Friday.
But when we went in to sign the paper Friday there was a
question about it being in the corporation name. Chrysler would
not finance it in the corporation name so we had the salesman
call Michelle Arnold, and what we were told -- of course, we
didn't talk to Michelle.
What we were told that it didn't have to be on the title, so
they had us sign the papers that -- to buy the vehicle, but we did
buy the vehicle last Friday.
Now, they've put in for a temporary registration. Now, maybe
the registration could be in the corporation name. I'll have to
check with Motor Vehicle, but we did purchase the vehicle.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: They could provide a lease agreement.
MR. FLEGAL: Yeah. You could do a lease.
MR. YATES: Lease it to the corporation?
MR. FLEGA: Right.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Is your motion still good or do we need to
amend it for anything?
MR. HYDE: I think the motion is still good but I'd also like to
add to it if we can get some portion of a credit report on the
actual corporation or the standing of the corporation as it exists.
Page 18
October 3, 2000
That should be -- MR. FULMER: The new corporation or the C. D. Sampling
Corporation?
MS. BAISLEY: That's the same thing.
MR. FLEGAL: I thought you just changed the name so --
CHAIRMAN PEASE: I think you changed the name --
MR. FLEGAL: -- it's really the same thing. Our interest is you
have a corporation that --
MRS. FULMER: No problem.
MR. FLEGAI.: -- the public is seeing. You may be nice people
and pay your bills, but your corporation, we don't know anything
about and --
MRS. FULMER: No problem. You'll have it.
MR. FLEGAL.' -- that's who the public sees is the name. And
your corporation may not pay their bills so we would want to
know. Okay. That's why.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Is there a second?
MR. CSOGI: I'll make a second.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: All those in favor, say aye.
Opposed? Motion carried. Good luck.
MRS. FULMER.' Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: The next item is to operate a charter
service, Richard Christian. Are you --
MS. CRUZ: For the record, Mr. Christian is not present and
there was supposed to be a representative on his behalf, but I
don't see anyone here.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: All right.
MS. BAISLEY: His current registration is not the proper class
of vehicle. That would need to be changed.
MR. CSOGI: Also it's in his personal name.
MR. FLEGAI.: Well, he's a sole proprietor, so --
MR. CSOGI: Is it a sole? It's not a corp? Just a trade name.
Okay.
MR. FLEGAL: Maria, we have requests in for background
checks?
MS. CRUZ: Yes, sir.
MR. FLEGAL: These last three we just --
MS. CRUZ: The last three, that's correct.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any discussion since we can't ask
questions?
Page 19
October 3, 2000
Do we have a motion?
MR. HYDE: The insurance, vehicle and Class I.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Does the committee have a motion?
MR. HYDE: Yes. I make a motion that we agree pending the
following resolutions; number one, that we actually get the
insurance verification; number two, a background check; and
number three, the vehicle for classification as a Class I currently,
and also the location of the vehicle.
It stipulates that he would actually intend on having one with
a maximum of two; however, since he's in his residence, it's only
capable of doing one and then after that he would have to come
back or actually have a location for the second vehicle or both
vehicles.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do we have a second?
MR. FLEGAL: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: All those in favor?
Opposed? Motion carried.
The next item is a request to operate a charter, Frank
Dicicco? Is that how you say that? MR. DICICCO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Come forward and be sworn in, please.
(Frank Dicicco was sworn by the court reporter.)
MR. FLEGAL: You're going to operate under your own name,
sir, right?
MR. DICICCO: Yes.
MR. HYDE: One vehicle?
MR. DICICCO: One vehicle.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Questions?
Do we have a motion?
MR. HYDE: I make a motion that we approve -- obviously,
you've got a letter of intent from the insurance company, so I
make a motion that we again grant it with the exception that we
get paperwork on the insurance.
I also didn't see the background check on here. That's
pending?
MS. CRUZ: Uh-huh.
MR. HYDE: I think that's it.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Is there a second?
MR. FLEGAL: Second it.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: All those in favor?
Page 20
October 3, 2000
Opposed? Motion carried. Good luck.
MR. DICICCO: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Next, we have a request to operate a taxi
charter service and a yield to the past chairperson to pronounce
the last name.
MS, BAISLEY: Cokorogianis.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Thank you.
MS. BAISLEY: It took me many years to learn that.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Come forward, George.
(George Cokorogianis was sworn by the court reporter.)
CHAIRMAN PEASE: My question reviewing this material is
there's a reference to a Joseph Sandiago?
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Uh-huh. If you look, that was -- I gave
that to Maria Cruz before I actually picked up the application and
then Joseph backed out of it, so I did it on my own.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: So, you're a sole --
MR. COKOROGIANIS: That's right.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: -- stockholder?
MR. COKOROGIANIS: That is correct.
MS. BAISLEY: I checked on that corporation also. It shows
that it was dissolved for an annual report on 9/26 of '97.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: '97?
MS. BAISLEY: '97.
MR. FLEGAL: I've got to get back there because I have a
couple of questions.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Were you aware this corporation was
dissolved in 19977
MR. COKOROGIANIS: No, I wasn't. Walter, the owner, is here
SO--
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do you have something from on line?
MS. BAISLEY: Was there a new agreement made after Joseph
Sandiago dropped out of the picture? MR. COKOROGIANIS: Yes.
MS. BAISLEY: And we don't have that agreement.
Did you supply that agreement to Maria Cruz?
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Well, Maria -- the one I gave to Maria I
thought was the original without even attempting to do an
application, so that really, you know -- so, what I did was -- and
then -- and then when I got the application and filled it out he
wasn't included on it and neither was -- when I brought in all my
Page 21
October 3, 2000
paperwork to my attorney, the corporation papers, they were all
just under my name.
MR. FLEGAL: Mr. Palmer--
MR. PALMER: Yes, sir.
MR. FLEGAL: -- I have a question.
MR. PALMER: Yes, sir.
MR. FLEGAL: Page 27 of the package --
MR. PALMER: Yes.
MR. FLEGAL: -- states that -- that since only 20 percent of the
money was paid, the original owners were holding the
certificates. I mean, the certificates haven't been transferred
over and he's not the owner, he has other owners, which under
our ordinance, if you have -- what is it, ten percent? MS. BAISLEY: Uh-huh. Ten percent.
MR. FLEGAL: And the way this looks, I mean, kind of reads
like they still own it all.
MR. PALMER: Or not more than 20 percent.
Another problem is if this corporation is dissolved, none of
these documents in the name of the corporation are effective as
to a corporation.
MR. FLEGAL: I understand that, but my -- let's just assume for
the sake of argument that it hasn't been dissolved. It's saying
since he only paid 20 percent of the money -- MR. PALMER: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: -- they're holding all the stock certificates.
MR. PALMER: Right. So, they're --
MR. FLEGAL: So, they own --
MR. PALMER: They have a corporate interest in the
corporation, that's right.
MR. FLEGAL: And he doesn't own anything.
MR. PALMER: This looks like a contingency sale and then
nothing transfers until the whole amount is paid. In other words,
it's not going out in installments.
MR. FLEGAL:
it.
MR. PALMER:
MR. FLEGAL:
these people.
MS. BAISLEY:
an existing company.
Right. So, he doesn't own anything. They own
Right. So, they're the real principals.
Right. And we don't have any information on
They're the current certificate holders. This is
Page 22
October 3, 2000
MR. FLEGAL: Providing there is a company.
MS. BAISLEY: Well, exactly.
MR. FLEGAL: I mean, if there's not -- if the company doesn't
exist anymore, then they don't have existing certificates.
MR. PALMER: Well --
MR. FLEGAL: Because if the company is dissolved, then the
certificate was to the company, so --
MR. PALMER: Well, the obligations of the company go to the
people who are involved in the company but that does not affect
or operate as a transfer of a certificate with regard to the
county.
MR. FLEGAL:
Naples Taxi, Inc.
MR. PALMER:
MR. FLEGAL:
MR. PALMER:
MR. FLEGAL:
MR. PALMER:
MR. FLEGAL:
MR. PALMER:
What I'm saying is we gave the certificate to
That's correct.
That company no longer exists.
Therefore, the certificates are not --
The certificates don't exist.
That's correct. They do not --
There's no taxi business.
There's no imputed transfer to the individuals
that own the corporation.
MR. FLEGAL:
MR. PALMER:
MR. FLEGAL:
MR. PALMER:
company reinstalled.
MR. FLEGAL: I'm of the belief that, you know, they need to
fall back and regroup and come back because -- and first prove
that the company exists; secondly, the owners of the company
need to make, I would think, an application.
And the way this letter reads, the owners are Walter and
Lucinda --
MR. PALMER: And these leases are effective after the
effective dissolution date of the corporation, so these leases do
not lease anything to this nonexistent corporation. MR. FLEGAL: Right.
MR. PALMER: They're dated 2000. If this thing was dissolved
in 1997, there's no corporation in which to deed the transfer
vehicles by a lease hold interest.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: May I have that back? I'm going to take
Correct.
That's right.
So--
What they've got to do is they've got to get this
Page 23
October 3, 2000
that to counsel.
MR. FLEGAL: If we have a special meeting coming up, I'd like
to regroup to --
MR. PALMER: Well, we're taking the course that this on line is
at face value, which we're perfectly reasonable to. MS. BAISLEY: Right.
MR. PALMER: If in fact this is incorrect, that's one thing. If
this is correct, that's quite another. But we have the right to
take this on its face value and assume that this is correct
information.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: It's a two-prong because you have an
active transportation company with permits operating with a
corporation that's not --
MR. FLEGAL: That may not be in existence.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: I'm prone to recommend that this get settled
and let them come back in our November meeting. I mean,
there's a lot of questions here. Approving in advance doesn't --
on this one doesn't interest me.
MR. PALMER: There are a lot of loose ends here.
MR. FLEGAI.: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Does the vice-chair want to add to the
motion anything in reference to how staff is to handle the
existing situation?
MR. FLEGAL: Well, I -- first, since we have an application, we
should handle the application and then when that's done, then
we should make a recommendation to the staff what to do about
this company that we just now found out may not exist anymore.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: I'll take that as a motion.
MR. FLEGAL.' We'll do it in two steps.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do we have a second on the motion?
MR. FLEGAI.: Do you understand what I'm proposing?
MR. COKOROGIANIS: So, what you're saying, the company
doesn't exist.
MR. FLEGAL: Right. And if--
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Can I ask Walter a question since he is
the owner?
Do you have records on the corporation being paid up and still
on file, Walter?
Page 24
October 3, 2000
MR.
MR.
MR.
when?
MS. BAISLEY: He'll need to be sworn.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: You'll need to be sworn in, sir.
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Okay. Can you swear him in?
(Gualdiero Centomini was sworn by the court reporter.)
MR. CENTOMINI: The last name is C-e-n-t-o-m-i-n-i. The first
name is G-u-a-l-d-i-e-r~o, parentheses, Walter.
MR. COKOROGIANIS-' Now, would you tell them what you just
said to me, please?
MR. FLEGAL: What -- what we have found on the internet from
the state is that your corporation doesn't exist anymore because
you didn't file some paperwork with the state.
MR. CENTOMINI: You are correct, yes. We didn't file in 1999.
That's when we didn't file, yeah.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay. Well, if you didn't file it, you don't have a
corporation, so you can't sell something you don't have. MR. CENTOMINI: So, what do you suggest?
MR. FLEGAL: I suggest you get square with the state and
then come back.
MR. CENTOMINI: Very easy. Yeah. You send $750 and then --
MR. COKOROGIANIS: So, in other words, all he has to do is --
MR. FLEGAL: You've got to get straight with the state to have
a corporation.
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Okay. Thank you.
MR. FLEGAL: That's what we're recommending, that you go --
COKOROGIANIS: Okay.
FLEGAL: -- settle all this and then come back to us.
COKOROGIANIS: Okay. For the next meeting, which is
MR. FLEGAL: November something.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Do you want this added on to the special
in November?
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Do I have to --
MR. FLEGAL: Well, I'm trying to give them a break, otherwise
they're going to have to wait until December or January or
something. So, I mean, we don't want to hold them up.
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Okay. Do I have to reapply with a new
application fee?
MR. FLEGAL: I wouldn't think so. I mean, since this has just
happened --
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Okay.
Page 25
October 3, 2000
MR. FLEGAL: -- there's no sense trying to make you pay
twice.
MR. HYDE: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: That's not to our advantage.
MR. COKOROGIANIS: So, the only thing we're lacking is
updated corporation.
MR. FLEGAL: Prove to us that it exists and actually who is the
owner. Okay? Now, also understand that you have a letter in
here where he's saying since you didn't pay him the money, he's
keeping all the stock certificates, which means he's the owner,
not you.
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Well, I know that what money he's
received he's -- he's transferring the stocks over to me. He's
going --
MR. FLEGAL: Okay.
MR. COKOROGIANIS.' -- to be the principal --
MR. FLEGAL.' This letter says that hasn't happened, so when
you come back, you can --
MR. COKOROGIANIS: What letter was that? I didn't even see
that.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: It's the same part of the letter I
referenced at the beginning.
MR. FLEGAL: Do you have a copy of the package?
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Yes.
MR. FLEGAL: Page 27.
MR. PALMER: It's this letter here.
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Okay. This was not -- that was the
original one which we did not -- well, all right. I'll bring a -- a new
-- at the next meeting, I'll bring a new copy of the way it should
be.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: That's fine. Fine.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay. I have a motion on the floor. Do I have a
second?
MR. CSOGI: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Good work, vice-chair.
All those in favor, say aye.
Opposed?
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Just one other thing. Do I -- when I get
this done, do I get it immediately to Marie?
MR. FLEGAL: Yes.
Page 26
October 3, 2000
MR. COKOROGIANIS: And when is the meeting again?
November?
MS. CRUZ: November 7th?
MR. COKOROGIANIS: November 7th. Thank you.
MS. ARNOLD: With respect to the existing company, you all
were going to have -- give us direction and --
MR. FLEGAL: Yeah. And now that we've actually been told
this company doesn't exist --
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: -- as for them being around town and operating
since they are not a quote-unquote legal company who issued
permits to Mr. Palmer, do we pull their permits?
MR. PALMER: I don't know that we pull their permits as long
as the insurance is in effect. The liability insurance has not been
affected negatively by the fact that the corporation is not active.
That's the issue.
MS. BAISLEY: But if the insurance is issued in the name of a
corporation that doesn't exist, what happens then?
MR. PALMER: Well --
MR. FLEGAL: If they have an accident --
MR. PALMER: -- it depends on the policy. It may be that the
insurance continues to go to the drivers provided they are
qualified and licensed drivers or, depending on the policy, the
insurance may lapse. We don't know the answer to that
question.
MS. BAISLEY: Perhaps staff should check with their
insurance?
MR. PALMER: I think the burden is on them to show to Maria
that in fact the required insurance coverage is in existence,
notwithstanding --
MR. CENTOMINI: Maria gets it before you get a permit
together.
MR. FLEGAL-' Well, but we just found out and you've told us
your company doesn't exist, so --
MR. COKOROGIANIS: I didn't say it didn't exist.
MR. FLEGAL: Well, he did because he didn't pay the fee.
MR. CENTOMINI: I didn't pay the amount from 1999, but that
doesn't mean anything. I'll get it to my lawyer and let him take
care of it.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Well, what we need -- all we need is for
Page 27
October 3, 2000
him to show that the insurance company is -- you're still covered
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Why would --
CHAIRMAN PEASE: -- even though the company doesn't exist.
MR. COKOROGIANIS: As a matter of fact, Evan's Insurance
has sent to her -- faxed her a copy maybe within two weeks ago.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: But they don't know -- they don't have the
information that we just ascertained today.
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Not as for as the corporation goes.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Exactly, so the question is, if you could
get with your insurance company, have them talk to Maria --
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: -- the staff, and make sure that your
policy is still in effect --
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Right.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: -- even if your corporation isn't.
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: Our worry is that while you're transporting
people, if you have an accident and all of a sudden the insurance
company says, oh, since the state wiped out your corporation --
MR. PALMER: They'll deny liability.
MR. FLEGAL: -- then the insurance is no good.
MR. COKOROGIANIS: Right.
MR. PALMER: They just want to make sure that's not going to
happen.
MR. COKOROGIANIS: I'll make sure it's done.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Today, yes.
Okay. Can we take a ten-minute recess in order for -- do you
have the forms for --
MS. ARNOLD: Yes. I was just going to mention. The forms
for meeting -- if anyone is interested in speaking on the next
item, is located on the desk right behind the first set of chairs, so
please fill those out and print, if you can, and then turn them in
to me.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: We'll reconvene at 10:30.
(A recess was had.)
CHAIRMAN PEASE: I'll call the meeting back to order.
We'll start with a -- with a report from Mr. Wallace.
MR. WALLACE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Page 28
October 3, 2000
For the record, Bleu Wallace, Director of Utility and Franchise
Regulations for Collier County.
My department had been assisting Ms. Arnold and code
enforcement in gathering information that we could from the --
from the operators.
At your last meeting on August 28th, we were directed to
gather some data, additional data, from the operators based on a
request made by Mr. Baisley on behalf of Yellow Cab for a
general rate increase.
The following day, on the 29th, staff hand carried or mailed a
form that we generated in house requesting certain expense
data and revenue data from all of the taxi operators.
We sent this out. We only had three sets of information that
came back. I had several exchanges of information from Mr.
Baisley and we have provided that information to the PVAC
members.
Right now, staff has no way to analyze this. There's too many
variables and I would not want to venture a guess as to what
those rates should be, but we did provide that information for
this committee's perusal.
If -- and based on any information you receive today,
additional information that you receive from the operators, we
are ready and willing to take that information and analyze it in
any way you see fit, so we'll await your direction.
We did pass out some -- some additional information that was
provided by fax by Mr. Baisley yesterday. It had to do with Lee
County's rates and I made that available to you during the break.
And if there is no further questions -- yes.
MR. CSOGI: Mr. Wallace, how many taxicab companies were
contacted for this survey?
MR. WALLACE: Eleven.
MR. CSOGI: And how many responded?
MR. WALLACE: Three.
MR. CSOGI: And how many responded accurately with enough
information to substantiate any kind of a report?
MR. WALLACE: There was only one that responded with the
information that staff had requested and this had to do with
revenue and expense numbers.
MR. CSOGI: Which company was that?
Page 29
October 3, 2000
MR. WALLACE: USA Taxi.
MR. CSOGI: So, out of 11 companies, one really gave you
what you needed to do a report.
MR. WALLACE: We -- we also received information from
Checker Cab, but there's a lot of variables.
When you look at one year where they have so many units in
service and then several years later they have triple that number
in service~ it's -- it's very difficult to establish those numbers and
give every expense item and the revenue items appropriate
weight.
MR. CSOGI: Right. So, I just want to understand this. Out of
11 companies that were contacted~ because we were told there
was a need for a rate increase, two out of the 11 responded with
-- well, I won't say substantial information, but at least
responded.
MR. WALLACE: With the requested information?
MR. CSOGI.' Yes.
MR. WALLACE: Yes.
MR. CSOGI.' And what was the date that they had to respond
by? Was that September 11th?
MR. WALLACE: The 11th of September is the date that we
gave them and we had those forms delivered to them or in the
mail the day after your last meeting.
MR. CSOGI: Okay. I want to thank you for your help.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: How many taxi operators are permitted in
the county?
MR. WALLACE: You gave me a list of 11.
MS. ARNOLD: Eleven.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any other questions for Mr. Wallace?
MR. FLEGAL: No. I have one for Mr. Palmer.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Just to remind everyone, we are
not voting on this item. We are voting on this item November
7th. We're here to collect information and discuss it and ask
questions.
Do you want to ask your question now or --
MR. FLEGAL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: -- do you want to go to the public?
MR. FLEGAL: Mr. Palmer, having missed the last meeting, but
I did read the minutes, I was surprised to find out that comments
of confidentiality on information and all that mumbo jumbo, the
Page 30
October 3, 2000
ordinance is specific pretty specific, so I have a real problem.
Did we write a bad ordinance?
MR. PALMER: No. The ordinance -- there are limits. This is
not a fully regulated business like a utility. And I have --
notwithstanding the language of the ordinance, I do not think it's
as broad and as clear cut as that.
I think that there are certain -- even utilities, have a right to
and they -- the right for a government to get into the utility
regulations are limited to things like trade secrets and other
things that are privileged as a matter of law.
Even the Public Service Commission cannot get into all the
records of its related utilities. And I think there are limits as to
the extent that this board can ask for proprietary information,
demand it.
They can ask for it, and if they can get it, it is not confidential
because there's no exception to the public records law if this
material is supplied that the county can keep it close to its vest.
But I do not believe that the power of this board to get into
the records is as extensive as one interpretation of the language
in the ordinance may imply based on the case law that even the
Public Service Commission can't get into the certain kinds of
records of businesses if the business does not wish to give those
records up.
The business can claim a privilege and there are a number of
privileges that are out there in the law, that a business does not
have to disclose to any government.
MR. CSOGI: But are you talking specific information or any
information?
MR. PALMER: No. There are certain types of information that
are -- that they do not have to give up against their demands.
And I do not -- the request that was initially given about a month
or two ago was an extremely broad request and it was -- it was
not -- not a suggestion. It was a demand for information.
And my point is that I had not seen that, and had I seen that, I
would have amended that, put a different scope and tone on it.
And I told Maria that I was not going to stand -- not going to
defend the fact that we were demanding all -- any and all
information, no questions asked, from these businesses.
MR. CSOGI: But you were at the last meeting though, right,
Page 31
October 3, 2000
when we -- when we drew up the document -- or when we asked
the questions from Mr. --
MR. PALMER: I have no -- I have no problem with the
amended request that Mr. Wallace sent out last month.
MR. CSOGI: Oh, okay. So, the initial one is what you --
MR. PALMER: The initial one was the problem.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay. My problem is since these firms
obviously don't want to give us any information --
MR. PALMER: If they won't --
MR. FLEGAL: -- and they say it's confidential, which I still
think is a bunch of bull --
MR. PALMER: Well, they have to -- the burden of proof on
claiming the privilege is on them just for the fact that what they
say doesn't make it so. However, if they won't give us the
information, and I agree with Mr. Wallace, we do not have enough
information here, notwithstanding we have figures, they do not --
they're not the kind of information on which you can -- you can
say -- you can base a firm recommendation that, yes, these rates
should be increased.
MR. CSOGI: Mr. Flegal, you're assuming that they don't want
to give us --
MR. FLEGAL: Well, they haven't turned it in and, so, obviously
MR. CSOGI: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: -- they don't want to, and Mr. Baisley stood up
here and said it was confidential, and he didn't want to do this --
MR. CSOGI: On the other hand --
MR. FLEGAI.: -- and he didn't want to do that.
MR. CSOGI: On the other hand, he could be in the position
where they think that it's --
MR. FLEGAL: Fine. He went to the county commissioners and
got this $2 slapped on everybody, gave them absolutely no
information, and yet they say we won't recommend rate
increases until you can justify that you need the money, you
shouldn't have an increase.
Now, if you don't want to give me information, I'm not going to
sit here and tell the county commissioners to give you a rate
hike. I mean, it's real simple.
MR. CSOGI: Well --
MR. FLEGAL: I mean, I can walk in and say, gee, I want to
Page 32
October 3, 2000
make a million dollars a year, why don't I have it?
MR. PALMER: Well, the board --
MR. FLEGAL: You've got to justify these things.
MR. PALMER: Well, the -- an impetus to get a rate increase
investigation does not necessarily have to come from the
companies; however, for example, this board can initiate its own
investigation.
But if we request information from companies of which to
make an objective judgment and recommendation to the Board of
County Commissioners and we do not get the requested
information, then we do not have enough information to make a
recommendation to the Board of County Commissioners one way
or the other.
MR. FLEGAL: I understand that.
MR. PALMER: Yes.
MR. FLEGAL: That's why I'm wondering why these companies
don't want to give us the information. They want the money, but
they don't want to tell us why they need the money.
MR. PALMER: Which means we can't in good faith go to the
Board of County Commissioners and say the facts justify a rate
increase.
MR. FLEGAL: I mean, the -- from what I read, you know, they
don't want to tell us how many trips they make. I mean, that's
required under the law.
Now, my reason for asking you about the ordinance is -- I'm
from the school that if the ordinance says do it, do it. If you don't
like it, go get a court order that says you don't have to give me
the information.
MR. PALMER: Or -- no, what they do is to file a paper that
says I will give you certain information, but certain of this
information is privileged as a matter of law, assert the privilege.
MR. CSOGI: That was my point, Mr. Fiegal. What I was saying
was it's my understanding that we've got less than a 25 percent
response, which leads me to believe that 75 percent of the
industry is happy with the rates the way they are~ the old rates.
MR. PALMER: That's a reasonable conclusion. That's a
reasonable conclusion.
The thing about the getting into the records are primarily
when you have across the board rate increase, it's primarily an
investigatory tool.
Page 33
October 3, 2000
In regard to asking for rate increases, it's more voluntarily.
But if people are not going to volunteer the information, you can
assume that they do not really need or want a rate increase if
they do not want to give the information to support a factual
support for recommendation to the Board of County
Commissioners.
MR. FLEGAL: Right. Okay. Let's take the rate increase,
which I don't think they want~ except for a few. We were
supposed to review this $2 surcharge at six months, which is up,
and that was put on because fuel prices were high -- MR. PALMER: That's correct.
MR. FLEGAL: -- as I remember the article out of the paper.
MR. PALMER: That is correct.
MR. FLEGAL: Yet nobody wants to tell us why they should
keep the $2 on there because they don't want us to know how
many trips they make, how much mileage they travel. I mean, a
little ludicrous to me.
MR. PALMER: Actually, the $2 surcharge was based on an
assumption of a -- of a standard mileage and the fact that the
gasoline price per gallon at that time was a certain amount of
money. That was the basis. It was a snapshot of a particular
period in time.
So, the question is if the price per gallon of gasoline has gone
down 20 cents a gallon or whatever, you assume that the trip
length in generation stays constant unless it's proven to the
contrary.
So, the real question is, has the price of gasoline gone down
from the time that that snapshot in time was taken or hasn't it,
and if it has gone down, there may be a basis to recommend to
the Board of County Commissioners that the -- the cost
mechanism that was driving that increase is no longer in
existence.
I don't know the answer to that question but that's --
CHAIRMAN PEASE: But the board has new information which
the commissioners didn't have, which we now have; i.e., the fact
that the fuel surcharge is split between the owner of the
company and the driver, because the driver is responsible for
fuel.
MR. FLEGAL: Well~ I mean -- I think we all got this sheet from
staff dated June about a taxi meter rate survey in various cities,
Page 34
October 3, 2000
Collier County being twice as high as anywhere else. I mean,
you know -- and yet they still need two bucks to pay for gas.
I'm a little confused. And then they don't want to justify why.
MR. CSOGI: Mr. Palmer, wasn't it also the assumption of the
county that the $2 was going towards the gas buyer and not the
company?
MR. PALMER: Yes. That -- it was clear to me, at least, that
this money was to reimburse a specific cost and that was the
increased cost of fuel. MR. CSOGI: Okay.
MR. PALMER: And it was -- in fact, the idea was in all
probability the surcharge would not even cover it penny for
penny, but it was going to be a substantial coverage of the
increased cost of fuel and that was all it was to be used for.
MR. CSOGI: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: And we also -- or at least I also read in the
minutes, and in this newspaper article, that two of the taxi
companies state that possibly -- it's not the word they use, but
drivers aren't -- might not pick up people on short trips because
they don't want to spend the money.
I mean, that already tells me they know this goes on and they
still don't want to justify why they need more money, so they
want to go ahead and violate the ordinance by not picking people
up,
MR. PALMER: Well~ it's an unfortunate problem. You know~
you get that ten percent that's going to cut the corner. There
may be taxicab drivers up there who are not going to take a bad
haul. It's -- you know~ it's an age-old problem.
But what you're insinuating is it's known and being tolerated
by the --
MR. FLEGAL.' Correct.
MR. PALMER: -- by the management.
MR. FLEGAL: Plus, it's known to being tolerated, but in order
to get an increase they don't want to give us any information to
get the increase.
MR. PALMER: Oh, well, I see what you're saying. You may --
you may show -- there may be -- you may -- there may be an
inordinate lack of bad runs in the data. It means people --
MR. FLEGAL: If you want an increase, you know, give me the
data. Don't sit there and say, well, because we can't get enough
Page 35
October 3, 2000
MR. PALMER:
MR. FLEGAL:
MR. PALMER:
MR. FLEGAL:
give it to you.
MR. PALMER:
money, we're not going to make the trips.
Well --
If you need the money, tell me why.
Well, I understand that.
If you don't want to tell me why, I'm not going to
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR,
MR,
April?
MR,
I understand that. And the fact of the matter is
what -- when Bleu stated, and I agree with him, and I have
experts in -- expertise in rate design and so forth, we don't have
the numbers on which to go to the Board of County
Commissioners and recommend anything.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Are there any other comments, questions
for either staff, Bleu Wallace or counsel? MR. HYDE: Yes.
When we actually imposed and this -- or when the County
Commissioners allowed the $2 increase or the surcharge fee,
what was the average rate of gas at that point? MR. FLEGAL: You mean cost?
MR. HYDE: Cost. Because I'm trying to find out if it was a
snapshot in time --
MR. PALMER: It was.
HYDE: -- at that point --
WALLACE: It was.
HYDE: -- in comparison to where it is now and --
PALMER: I think it's in the executive summary.
WALLACE: I have that.
HYDE: Okay, sir. Thank you.
WALLACE: I think that was in March. Was it in March or
FLEGAL: March. March 29th is when the article stated.
MR. WALLACE: March 2000, regular unleaded was 1.647. In
other words, one dollar and 64.7 cents a gallon. And that was in
the Naples area.
And that was in the previous report that staff prepared for the
August 28th meeting that addressed the $2 surcharge. Mr. Flegal, did you get a copy of this?
MR. FLEGAL: Of that one? Is that what this is, Maria?
MS. CRUZ: Yes.
MR. FLEGAL: You say it's a dollar sixty-four, Bleu?
MR. WALLACE: And that's at tab three in that -- in that --
Page 36
October 3, 2000
booklet.
MR. FLEGAL: And on the 29th, I went to four different gas
stations. None of them were a dollar sixty-four. A dollar
fifty-eight nine, a dollar fifty-nine nine, a dollar sixty-one nine, a
dollar fifty-seven nine. Speedway, Hess, Exxon and Texaco.
I went by the gas stations once a month since then to check
prices. Prices have come down. Prices are lower now than they
were then. I'm not impressed with this two bucks.
MS. BAISLEY: What was your most recent survey of the gas?
MR. FLEGAL: 9/22: Speedway, a dollar fifty-four nine; Hess, a
dollar fifty-four nine; Exxon, a dollar fifty-six nine; Texaco, a
dollar fifty-one nine. That was on 9/22.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any other questions?
MR. FLEGAL: And I did premium also. I don't know what taxis
use. I just took the lowest price and the highest price for regular
gas and premium gas.
MR. PALMER: But it's not a major reduction. It's about five
cents a gallon or nine cents a gallon from the stated rate, the
snapshot rate.
And I think that when the rates were -- before they went up
they were more like a dollar twenty-five cents, weren't they,
before they escalated remarkably.
MR. FLEGAL: I honestly don't know but we'd have to contact
MR. PALMER: So, they have gone down about nine cents a
gallon, but they haven't really gone down a remarkable amount
since the snapshot in time.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: You know, it was 60 some odd percent,
wasn't it, just as of -- in August?
MR. WALLACE: July was the last time -- you know, when we
prepared this report, we cut it off in July. July, the year 2000, it
had increased from January '99 to July 2000 some 67 percent
increase.
And that is at tab three of the previous report that staff
provided this -- this committee.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any other comment, questions before we
open up the public comment? MR. FLEGAL: Yeah.
MS. BAISLEY: I also think that -- isn't it this county that have
the highest gasoline rates in the State of Florida? It's my
Page 37
October 3, 2000
understanding that they're higher here than anywhere else in the
State of Florida.
MR. FLEGAL: Hard to prove.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: I think you looked at that, didn't you,
Bleu?
MS. BAISLEY: Compare our rates to other people's rates, you
have to take that into consideration.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: That's in Bleu's report.
MR. WALLACE: Yes. At tab three in the previous report that
was provided on August 28, it shows -- it shows from November
'99 through July 2000, those Naples area rates that were
provided by us by the American Automobile Association and the
Naples area rates were much higher than the average Florida
rate.
MR. FLEGAL: Well, I guess what I'm looking at -- I mean, even
if gas was higher, assuming that these rates are correct --
MS. BAISLEY: I don't have that rate sheet. I would like to
have them investigate that.
MR. FLEGAL: I mean a dollar fifty for the first mile versus
three seventy-five. High gas can't account for $2 and a quarter.
MR. WALLACE: Mr. Chairman, I would -- I would like to make --
reiterate, I think, the last statement I made at the August 28th
meeting, and that was whenever I submitted this report for this
committee to accept, the staff report, I stated that, in conclusion
that the utility and franchise regulation department was not
making a recommendation that the $2 surcharge be rescinded or
the specific rate be put in its place.
But -- but we also ask the PVAC to consider this report and all
those -- all those different items in it to include price index, the
gasoline surcharge, the actual cost of gasoline. And after
reviewing that, I think the -- the committee took a lot of that into
consideration, especially when we said that you may want to
consider the contents the report and maybe come up with a more
balanced rate structure where you don't have the whole $2 up
front.
And that more balanced rate structure -- structure would yield
a fair, more reasonable approach to reduce the financial impact
on short trips, recoup operating costs through both rate
components, the start-up costs and the mileage costs and yield a
comparable revenue for a standard trip length, which we came
Page 38
October 3, 2000
MS.
MR.
MS.
add --
up with the average trip length was 4.5 miles, while better
delineating the rate adjustment process.
When I say that, I mean they're going to -- the operator is
going to have to be willing to provide us enough information to
make an informed decision on and a recommendation. And with that, I'll close.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Any other comments, questions before we
go to the public?
MR. FLEGAL: Let me ask Pat a question to make sure I
understand how a meter works.
The -- when you get in a cab and they flip the flag up and it
starts, there is in the ordinance this interval time of 40 cents a
minute. Is that built into the meter?
MS. BAISLEY: That's built into the meter, right.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay. So, in addition to the normal mileage
charge --
MS. BAISLEY: It's going to automatically cut --
MR. FLEGAL: -- it automatically adds another 40 cents for
every minute --
MS. BAISLEY: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: -- okay, that you're in it? Is that my
understanding?
MS. BAISLEY: Well, when you're stopped, it's calculating the
time, not when it's moving. If you're stopped at a red light, the
time is calculating --
MR. FLEGAL: Right.
BAISLEY: -- because you're not traveling.
FLEGAL: I understand that. That's what I --
BAISLEY: It is built into the meter, yes. You don't just
MR. FLEGAL.' For the time you're stopped at red lights or
traffic delays or --
MS. BAISLEY: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: Yeah. Okay. That's what I thought.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Do we have the list of speakers?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes. We have two speakers. First, Russ
Baisley and then Jack Bridenthal.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: I would ask that you keep to five minutes,
please.
MR. BAISLEY: Do I need to be sworn in?
Page 39
October 3, 2000
MS.
MR.
here.
Okay. I'd like to correct a couple of impressions initially.
THE COURT REPORTER: Sir, would you identify yourself for
the record?
MR. BAISLEY: I'm sorry. My name is Russ Baisley and I'm
here representing Yellow Cab today.
There's was a statement that 11 cab companies were
requested information based on a request for information from
Maria Cruz from a list of operators licensed to do business in
Collier County.
I come up with actually five taxi companies, if you include one
of the taxi companies that was here before that's not
incorporated. We have four companies, not 11.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Is that -- is that true?
MS. ARNOLD: We sent it out to 11.
MR. HYDE: How many companies are permitted; 117
MR. BAISLEY: No. Not as taxis.
MR. FLEGAL: Well, I'm asking the county. They would know.
They issue the permits.
MS. BAISLEY: That are currently operating, taxi cabs.
MS. CRUZ: At this time I couldn't give you an exact number
without looking in my records.
MR. CSOGI: Is it more than four, more than ten?
MS. CRUZ: I believe there's more than -- more than four.
MR. CSOGI: More than four?
MS. CRUZ: Yes, sir.
MR. CSOGI: Where did you get your information?
CRUZ: But the question I was asked --
BAISLEY: I got it from the county's information right
MS. CRUZ: The question I was asked was how many
companies received or sent the information and we sent it out --
MR. CSOGI: Taxi companies.
MS. CRUZ: Yeah, taxi companies and we sent it out to 11
companies.
MR. CSOGI: But we did send it out to 1t companies. You're
telling us we did send it out to 11 companies?
MR. BAISLEY: But there are only five taxi companies in the
county.
MR. CSOGI: Where did they send them?
MR. BAISLEY: There are probably only four that are operating
Page 40
October 3, 2000
as taxis based on the information given to me by Maria Cruz. The
impression that three companies out of 11 responded is
inaccurate. That's what I wanted to address.
MR. CSOGI: If you would clarify that, that would help me
understand it also.
MR. BAISLEY: I'm sorry?
MR. CSOGI: If we could clarify how many taxicab companies,
it would help me clarify a lot of things for me also.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Let's have staff discuss that while we
continue to listen to your public comment, please.
MR. BAISLEY: I prepared a number of documents for Mr.
Wallace. The problem with responding strictly to Mr. Wallace is
in the initial request was that it was -- the way we operate our
businesses we have an operating corporation plus a number of
different things.
So, we had to go back and try to segregate how the taxi,
metered taxi trips from the overall thing. And these are not huge
companies. These are small companies.
You have to go back and you take the average number of taxi
meter trips and the only trips that you regulate are the actual
demand responsive meter trips. And we came up with a number
of 300 trips a day.
We then took the average cost of the dispatcher and the
average cost of insurance and these things, telephone repairs
and oil, and divided the 300 trips into the cost of $820.24 per
day. We came up with $2.73 per trip, per metered taxi trip,
before we bought any fuel, before we paid the driver, before we
replaced the vehicle, before we pay for radial tires, any of those
things.
We've been in communication with Mr. Wallace's office, giving
him different cost figures. It's not been in his format, but to
respond in his format was not really a possible thing to do based
on our corporate structure.
Jack from USA Cab has a different operation. He's purely
taxi. That's what he does. We've got buses, we've got
limousines, we've got a number of different things.
To separate that out, it doesn't -- it's difficult. Basically, the
absent comparables, the current rate right now in Fort Myers~ for
example, is three oh five for the initial start in the car, plus
additional charges.
Page 41
October 3, 2000
So, if you've got the little old lady at Publix and she's got two
bags of groceries, it's at least four oh five before they move at
all, probably five oh five. If she has her friend with her, it's
another dollar.
The county's rate that were amended or changed had not
been changed since 1991. Gas rates back then were like 97
cents a gallon.
You go further. The comparables of the Fort Myers airport,
the minimum charge to take a taxi off to Fort Myers airport and
go to your car in the parking lot, if it's one person, is $7. If it's
two people, I believe it's t4.
Go to Miami, there's a different drop, a different -- a whole
different rate structure, but it's $2 per mile.
I made the request of Maria for information on these different
companies. I also asked for a list of complaints that the county
had received concerning service or rates. And the comment I
got back, and my response was NA, which I assume means there
were no complaints.
We've had very positive response from the people. We really
had very few complaints. And the costs have clearly gone up.
There's some other -- I think you've got copies of all the things
that Mr. Wallace, I faxed him off. Are there any questions you
have of me?
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Thank you, Mr. Baisley.
MR. BAISLEY: Oh, I'm sorry. Let me just close with this.
I think you have three options basically. One might be to
leave the rates the way they are. The public responded to
change them further, it's going to add confusion, expenses.
The other might be to deregulate the rates of taxis completely
and it requires some public notice. Let the public sort it out.
Certainly in most other businesses in the county public notice
of rates, filing, you pick your gas station by what rate. You don't
-- the county doesn't set the rate there.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: The time is expired.
MR. BAISLEY: So, please notify -- provide a way to notify the
public in an orderly fashion, let the public choose their own
means.
The other choice, I think, would be to lower the taxi rate, and
what's going to happen in that situation perhaps is that it will no
longer be economically feasible to operate taxis whether they're
Page 42
October 3, 2000
operating now with meters and top plates.
So, the alternative is to take the top plates and meters off the
cars and operate them as charter vehicles and you can set
whatever rate you'd like.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Time is expired, Mr. Baisley.
MR. BAISLEY: I'm sorry?
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Time is expired.
MR. BAISLEY: Which does not protect the public.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN BAISLEY: Thank you.
MS. CRUZ: Mr. Chairman, if I may just for the record, there
are eight companies and if you'd like, I can read those names
out.
MR,
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
CSOGI: Eight companies as --
CRUZ: Eight taxi companies.
CSOGI: Not 117
CRUZ: We've got Aaron Taxi Limo.
BAISLEY: Not a taxi.
CRUZ: Accent Transportation Services.
BAISLEY: Action--
CRUZ: A OK Taxi.
BAISLEY: No.
MS. CRUZ: Checker Cab of Collier County, Naples Taxi, Inc.,
Nearly Group, Inc. d/b/a A-Action Taxi, USA Taxi, Graham
Transportation, A-1 Cadillac Cab, Inc. That business is no longer
in business. And that's all.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: The next person to speak.
MS. CRUZ: The next person is Jack Bridenthal.
MR. BAISLEY: May I respond to that, please?
CHAIRMAN PEASE: I don't think that's necessary.
MR. FLEGAL: I don't think we need to argue about the names
of the taxicabs.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: We'll go to the next speaker, please.
MR. BRIDENTHAL: Russ pretty much -- I'm Jack Bridenthal,
USA Taxi.
Russ has pretty much said everything that I wanted to say
with the exception that all the board seems to be worried about
is the cost of gasoline to the drivers. What we need to think
about is what employment you were all in ten years ago and I
was in and how much that salary or wage has gone up in the last
Page 43
October 3, 2000
ten years.
The operators and the owners have not had an increase in ten
years. Think about cost of living, CPI, everything's gone up 30
percent in ten years.
As owners, expenses have gone up way more than ten
percent. As drivers, whether they're paying more for gas or not,
they haven't had a raise in ten years.
Isn't it feasible any employee in any general salary business
has had roughly 30 percent in the last ten years? I don't care per
trip to make more, per this. I'd just like to pay the expenses
equal to what they are over what they were ten years ago. I
wasn't in it ten years ago, but I was in the car business and I
know what a used engine installed was ten years ago compared
to now. It was about $600, now it's 1800. The cost of used
police cars that would be used for cabs has tripled in the last ten
years.
As I say, I wasn't buying them for cabs then. I was buying
them for wholesale use, buying and reselling them. But think
about everybody's expenses, how much they've gone up.
As Russ said, Fort Myers is four something, plus so much a
bag, so much a package. We don't get any of that.
And the 40 cents a mile we talked about is any time the car is
sitting with a fair. Say they want to stop at another store or they
want to stop somewhere, it's not running -- if the car is running
40 miles an hour, it's 40 cents does not read. Somehow the
meter stops at iust above idle. That's all I've got.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Thank you very much.
The next speaker?
MS. CRUZ: You have no more speakers.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Do we need a motion to close the
public speakings or do I just do that?
MR. PALMER: You can close the public -- you can say the
public hearing is closed.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: It's closed.
Any other discussion that needs to take place here on this
tonic before we go to reports? Comments, questions?
Okay. We'll go to reports. Do we have any reports?
MS. CRUZ: None from staff, sir.
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October 3, 2000
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. Any other discussion? The next
meeting is November 7th. Do we have a time? MS. CRUZ: 9:00 a.m.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Here at this location?
MS. CRUZ: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Okay. And I have just one comment
before I request a motion to adjourn.
I would like to say this is the strongest board that I think
we've ever had. There is a group of people looking at it from
different areas and I'm real pleased to be a part of it and thankful
for everyone's participation.
Do we have a motion to adjourn?
MR. HYDE: Motion to adjourn.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: Second?
MR. FLEGAL: I'1! second it.
CHAIRMAN PEASE: All those in favor, aye.
Motion carried.
Thank you, everybody.
There being no further business for the good of the County,
the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 11.'10 a.m.
COLLIER COUNTY PUBLIC
VEHICLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE
BRYAN L. S. PEASE
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY ROSE M. WITT, RPR
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